Maybe just a bit much, NY Post?

[molson]

Queens father subway shove slay suspect confesses - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nightmare_on_subway_tracks_GgvCtkeJj6cTeyxHns2VNP/0)

I've never been in that situation and I can't know for sure what I'd do, but I really, really, really hope I'd try to help, and not just scream, run away, or take a bunch of photos and sell them to the Post.

[Chief Rum]

I can't click on the link, being at work, but is that really the headline? That's one of the stupidest, most incomprehensible headlines I have ever read.

[Young Drachma]

It was deplorable in every sense of the word. The picture, the headline and everything. The freelance photog is not blameless and the fact that he chose to do it how he did, deserves no compassion at all. I don't know what I'd done in that situation, but instinct would not have been to take a picture.

[Logan]

There's not much that shocks me anymore, but when I walked past one of the corner guys selling the NY Post yesterday and saw the cover, I was legitimately shocked and immediately thought it was some kind of hoax.

[molson]

I can't click on the link, being at work, but is that really the headline? That's one of the stupidest, most incomprehensible headlines I have ever read.

Ya, that's the headline that shows up when you paste the link, I think they cleaned it up a bit on the website now. (though "subway shove slay suspect" is pretty standard NY Postspeak.

The headline on the paper itself is a bit more to-the-point:

"Pushed on the subway track, this man is about to die. DOOMED"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Queens father subway shove slay suspect confesses - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nightmare_on_subway_tracks_GgvCtkeJj6cTeyxHns2VNP/0)

I've never been in that situation and I can't know for sure what I'd do, but I really, really, really hope I'd try to help, and not just scream, run away, or take a bunch of photos and sell them to the Post.

The photographer's story in the article is that he was rapidly flashing his camera to get the subway driver to stop. I'm guessing those photos came from that action.

[panerd]

Maybe the phtographer was in search of the Dark Tower.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

1. do something morally questionable
2. shitstorm ensues
3. ???
4. profit

the post is the journalistic equivalent of a leaked* sex tape.


*by your agent

[spleen1015]

That is some sad shit. The fact that no one helped the guy and then the NY Post puts that pic on the front page.

[GoldenEagle]

I think the photographer claims he was too far down the platform to help, but said there were people around who could have helped.

The timeline was something like 22 seconds from when that pic got taken to when he got hit.

[JPhillips]

The photographer's story in the article is that he was rapidly flashing his camera to get the subway driver to stop. I'm guessing those photos came from that action.

While perfectly framing the shot?

Bullshit post-hoc justification.

[Fidatelo]

If there were 22 seconds don't you have to try to get there to pull him up? What's the worst that happens, you don't make it in time? Or you get there and have to let go in the second before it hits so you aren't also hit? That would be horrible, but not as horrible as just watching it happen while snapping pictures :(

[Kodos]

I hope the Post folds over this one. Sickening.

[bhlloy]

While perfectly framing the shot?

Bullshit post-hoc justification.

This. Plus the fact he wasn't willing to speak to CNN after the fact unless they paid him. Absolute piece of shit pond life.

[Fidatelo]

Maybe this guy has a mental illness or CTE? Perhaps we should all feel sorry for him.

[Logan]

If there were 22 seconds don't you have to try to get there to pull him up? What's the worst that happens, you don't make it in time? Or you get there and have to let go in the second before it hits so you aren't also hit? That would be horrible, but not as horrible as just watching it happen while snapping pictures :(

Guys, there is no way it was 22 seconds from the picture on the front page to when the guy got it. It looks like it is at most two cars away in distance, which would take only a few seconds to hit him even if the train is slowing down for the station stop.

Maybe it was 22 seconds from when he initially got pushed down there, pulled himself up, got to the platform edge, and got hit.

[Fidatelo]

Guys, there is no way it was 22 seconds from the picture on the front page to when the guy got it. It looks like it is at most two cars away in distance, which would take only a few seconds to hit him even if the train is slowing down for the station stop.

Maybe it was 22 seconds from when he initially got pushed down there, pulled himself up, got to the platform edge, and got hit.

Fair enough, 22 does seem awfully long. And I can understand people freezing or not reacting or whatever (I wouldn't be shocked if I did the same, though disappointed). But to take a picture? If you are aware enough to think to do that, you should be aware enough to try to act.

[EagleFan]

Add in th etime it took to get the camera out and focused, frame the picture ans shoot and it all adds up the gy taking the picture as being a worthless pile of shit.

As for the Post, I can't even comprehend the decision to make that a headline photo; let alone with that caption. I can't even imagine how it would feel to be someone in that man't family who sees that picture in the paper.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

you have to try. even if it's futile.

[EagleFan]

Do they have video on the platforms? If so, I hope the video of the cameraman comes out (as long as there isn't footage of the guy on the tracks, that is just something I don't need to see).

[molson]

Do they have video on the platforms? If so, I hope the video of the cameraman comes out (as long as there isn't footage of the guy on the tracks, that is just something I don't need to see).

There is surveillance video all over the platform, this is the only one I've seen though - just a clip of the pusher mad at someone (I don't think it's the victim). I think the victim probably wasn't the only one who confronted him, but he might have had a little more liquid courage than the others at the time. (and I'm certainly not blaming the victim at all, but he was careless - drunkenly confronting subway crazies is typically not a good idea. New Yorkers see guys like this and crazy stuff all the time, and I think they're conditioned to not get involved...which probably works against them when they suddenly have to decide in seconds whether to get involved in a rescue or something)

Naeem Davis arrested in NYC subway pushing death (http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/naeem-davis-arrested-in-nyc-subway-pushing-death-1.4294927)

This video also gives a sense of the number of people around, and how narrow the platform is at this particular station. There were almost certainly plenty of people close enough to help.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

While perfectly framing the shot?

Bullshit post-hoc justification.

I didn't say I believed him. Just was putting it forward since it was relevant to the discussion.

[molson]

While perfectly framing the shot?

Bullshit post-hoc justification.

And it is a little odd one would choose potentially blinding flash over the more traditional "wave your arms to try to get the conductor's attention"...the latter move has been successful in the past where people have fallen onto subway tracks.

[larrymcg421]

There is surveillance video all over the platform, this is the only one I've seen though - just a clip of the pusher mad at someone (I don't think it's the victim). I think the victim probably wasn't the only one who confronted him, but he might have had a little more liquid courage than the others at the time.

Naeem Davis arrested in NYC subway pushing death (http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/naeem-davis-arrested-in-nyc-subway-pushing-death-1.4294927)

This video also gives a sense of the number of people around, and how narrow the platform is at this particular station. There were almost certainly plenty of people close enough to help.

The caption underneath the video indicates that the victim is indeed the person on the left.

[EagleFan]

And it is a little odd one would choose potentially blinding flash over the more traditional "wave your arms to try to get the conductor's attention"...the latter move has been successful in the past where people have fallen onto subway tracks.

But waving his arms wouldn't have meant a payday...

[Pyser]

you have to try. even if it's futile.

what if you get pulled down too in his frantic attempt to climb out?

[EagleFan]

what if you get pulled down too in his frantic attempt to climb out?

Thankfully that thought doesn't go through the minds of heros.

[Pyser]

he says from the comfort of behind his keyboard

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

shrug. i'd try to help. not trying to sound brave but it's a random act of violence. it could just as easily be me or someone i love down there

[Pyser]

remember a few years ago a guy jumped down there and laid on top of someone who fell? and the subway went over both of them and everyone survived unhurt?

i wonder if its standard sizing for all subways in ny. i'd assume it is. if so, they should advertise everywhere down there that laying down in the middle of the track as flat as you can is your best bet to survive.

[Solecismic]

Isn't this kind-of a variation of the Seinfeld finale?

[Ryan S]

you have to try. even if it's futile.

It would depend on the situation. If you knew that nothing was coming fair enough, if a train was due any second you stand a real chance of becoming the second victim.

It also depends on what happened on the platform before the guy was thrown onto the tracks. If the guy on the tracks got down there due his own stupidity or actions I am going to be much less likely to lend a hand.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I pulled a guy off the tracks once. It was a minute or two before the train got there, but the guy was completely freaked out and kept hugging me even after we got on the train. He hadn't been pushed though. He dropped his cell, then jumped down. When I held my hand out he tried to hop up just like this guy, but fell back down & nearly hit the 3rd rail. That was when I yelled to him to get up & grab my hand.

As for the photgrapher flashing his camera to get the attention of the train operator, I would think a flashing light would actually distract the operator from the guy on the track. He may have actually contributed to his death.

The Post should just change their name to The Douchebag.

[EagleFan]

I pulled a guy off the tracks once. It was a minute or two before the train got there, but the guy was completely freaked out and kept hugging me even after we got on the train. He hadn't been pushed though. He dropped his cell, then jumped down. When I held my hand out he tried to hop up just like this guy, but fell back down & nearly hit the 3rd rail. That was when I yelled to him to get up & grab my hand.

The Post should just change their name to The Douchebag.

Dude, you rock!

[EagleFan]

dola: though if I am that guy I would have said F' the phone.

[Logan]

remember a few years ago a guy jumped down there and laid on top of someone who fell? and the subway went over both of them and everyone survived unhurt?

i wonder if its standard sizing for all subways in ny. i'd assume it is. if so, they should advertise everywhere down there that laying down in the middle of the track as flat as you can is your best bet to survive.

Many subways also have arched openings on the inside wall (so opposite side of the train from the platform) that look like they are about a foot deep. I've always thought they were big enough for someone to duck into and suck in their stomachs. I should probably look into that. I think there could be an issue with the electricity on the rails near that.

Also, not many people realize that at the end of the platform, there is a ladder that will get you back onto the platform. Obviously you have to be able to reach it in time.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

dola: though if I am that guy I would have said F' the phone.

When I got to the platform he was on all fours staring down. He then turned to me & said "cover me" and jumped down as I said not to do it. When he fell backwards onto the tracks it looked in slow motion. His eyes literally looked like this: :eek:

On the train where he kept talking, thanking me & hugging me it was kinda funny... people were looking at us rather oddly. I kept telling him he was ok & to cool out. He was acting like I was his hero or something. LOL

I'm just glad he was ok. The photographer should have put the camera down & ran to help this guy. The pic does clear up why nobody really helped though, as the platform was practically empty.

I'll still take the trains any day over driving.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Also, not many people realize that at the end of the platform, there is a ladder that will get you back onto the platform. Obviously you have to be able to reach it in time.

Yep. Most of the people who get killed by the trains you never hear about because they were doing something stupid. Talking to a MTA employee about a major delay due to an "accident" at 33rd St, he told me a guy got hit trying to cross from uptown to downtown via the tracks. He said it happens often enough that they aren't surprised when it does.

[Logan]

Yep. Most of the people who get killed by the trains you never hear about because they were doing something stupid. Talking to a MTA employee about a major delay due to an "accident" at 33rd St, he told me a guy got hit trying to cross from uptown to downtown via the tracks. He said it happens often enough that they aren't surprised when it does.

I'm sure these existed in some form before, but for the last couple years, they've had signs on many subways cautioning you to not do certain things. For the most part, they are staged pictures with real people, with some as drawings. They are pretty basic cautions shown: watch for the gap as you enter/exit, don't stick your head over the track, don't try to stick your hand in as the doors close, etc. All stuff you could see coming up frequently.

One that always made me laugh was about not "surfing the train". Note: I started to describe this, but thank you Google Images. I can't possibly imagine anyone ever doing this. So if you ever get the opportunity for another one on one with an MTA employee, ask him or her about the inspiration for this:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/tiffanypeon/mtaposter32.jpg

[molson]

I love that that problem necessitated the drafting of a catchy slogan. "Ride inside. Get there alive." I want to know who is charge of drafting those and how I can apply for a job in their division.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/kenrapoza/files/2011/03/India-train.jpg

In India the trains are so overcrowded they actually do this on a regular basis.

[molson]

He then turned to me & said "cover me" and jumped down as I said not to do it.

Hmm. I wonder what exactly he was asking you to do. Concentrate fire on hostiles across the platform?

[RainMaker]

I always wondered if there should be some kind of railing that opens up where the train doors are. In Chicago we have the "L" and it's above the streets. The platforms are a little scary at times and since they are outdoors, they get real icy and slipper in the winter. I could easily see people slipping on it and falling down. Creeps me out and I always stand much farther back before the train arrives.

[Neon_Chaos]

In SG and HK, there are plastic walls covering the tracks, and doors that match with the trains that open along with the train doors. Basically safe as heck.

[Groundhog]

I love that that problem necessitated the drafting of a catchy slogan. "Ride inside. Get there alive." I want to know who is charge of drafting those and how I can apply for a job in their division.

They made a "Don't sleep on the road" jingle over here to discourage the rural Aborigine population from... well... sleeping on the road and getting runover.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XA241Lg70fg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is GREAT!

[Ryan S]

In SG and HK, there are plastic walls covering the tracks, and doors that match with the trains that open along with the train doors. Basically safe as heck.

Some of the newer London Underground stations also have those doors.

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/PSDs%20JLE.jpg

[Neon_Chaos]

Actually that's the very setup they have in hk/sg. Fiberglass walls w/ doors.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, that is probably the best setup. But the infrastructure in those countries is way ahead of ours. I mean Chicago has a lot of areas of their transit system still running on stuff that hasn't been touched in 50 years. New York is running off the same tech they had going in the 1900's. They have relay rooms that haven't been updated in 100 years.

It's a shame that large cities like New York and Chicago are not automated. They don't have the same security systems either. It's not just that most big countries are making us look bad, it's even countries like Brazil that make a mockery of our system. Their system was so much better than anything we have here in major cities and that was 10 years ago when I was there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know what I'd like to know?

How that day's Post rack sales compared to the average day's rack sales.
(If you made me bet, I'd say they were up but only marginally)

[larrymcg421]

Y'know what I'd like to know?

How that day's Post rack sales compared to the average day's rack sales.
(If you made me bet, I'd say they were up but only marginally)

My guess is something like this would have a more profound effect for their website.

[molson]

I can't really disagree with those subway wall things but it looks so sanitized. Like playground equipment covered with bubble wrap. At some level, I'd rather just take my chances, stay away from the crazies, be inches away from unstoppable masses of steel flying past me, and spend my time waiting for trains day-dreaming about whether I could make it to the next stop through the tunnel before the train came, or what I'd do if someone fell in. Cities are supposed to have some danger. But that's probably just me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My guess is something like this would have a more profound effect for their website.

But there's really not much (any?) additional profit from that. All a single day spike in web traffic would do is burn through the contracted impressions for existing clients faster than normal or give those clients a bump over expected impressions if they happened to be running at the right time.

It's cheap publicity that might have a small percentage bump long term I suppose but nothing gamechanging.

I focused on rack sales since that's what would represent a revenue change.

[Autumn]

dola: though if I am that guy I would have said F' the phone.

It was probably the new iPhone.

[Daimyo]

I always wondered if there should be some kind of railing that opens up where the train doors are. In Chicago we have the "L" and it's above the streets. The platforms are a little scary at times and since they are outdoors, they get real icy and slipper in the winter. I could easily see people slipping on it and falling down. Creeps me out and I always stand much farther back before the train arrives.

I used to ride to the Foster stop in Evanston and I was always scared of slipping when it got icy as that station was horribly neglected...

[molson]

It was probably the new iPhone.

I figured he had some photos on there that he didn't want a MTA worker to see.

[Ryan S]

I remember when I used to travel on the Glasgow subway somewhat regularly, I always hated it when the island platforms got busy, or if a drunken moron was staggering about.

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_2240.jpg

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Like there are drunken morons in Glasgow...

I'm a bit claustrophobic, so not sure I like the glass wall thing. At the old South Ferry stop there was a middle track that was no longer in use for anything but turning around trains. There is a passenger platform in it that was walled off. Because the turn was so sight, only the middle doors would open and they would have to be lined up with the holes in the walls, much like the glass wall.

I am against automation for the trains. Having a set of human eyes is one more safety feature. This man was killed by the train even with a human operator. The operator wasn't able to stop in time. An automated train wouldn't have even tried to stop until programmed to. What happens on an outdoor rail where a tree branch falls? It happens. Once when I was on my way to work the conductor announced that we were delayed because some guy was jogging on the tracks (the elevated section of the 1 train at 125)