Franchise Portfolio Draft: DRAFT LIVE

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

8 men enter. One man leaves. Build a portfolio of the world's most prestigious teams. You must choose:

1. MLB
2. NFL
3. NBA
4. NHL
5. International CLUB Football (soccer)
6. NCAA Football
7. NCAA Basketball
8. NCAA "Other" (women's sports, lacrosse,baseball, field hockey,track & field etc)

Teams must be active. No fake teams (globetrotters etc)

SNAKE Draft Order

1. WSUCougar
2. Comey
3. Grover
4. spleen1015
5. britrock88
6. Bisbo
7. NTO
8. larrymcg421

Let's keep it causal. No time limits but if you're going to be away for a while pm me a couple picks. Any controversies will be handled democratically.Make picks like so:

1.1 Florida Marlins, MLB

Please pm the next poster after your selection!



**************************************************************
DRAFT TRACKER
***************************************************************


WSUCougar
1.1 St. Louis Cardinals, MLB
2.8 UCLA Bruins, NCAA Basketball
3.1 Michigan Wolverines, NCAA Football
4.8 Chicago Bears, NFL
5.1 Tennessee Lady Vols, NCAA women's basketball
6.8 San Antonio Spurs, NBA
7.1 Edmonton Oilers, NHL
8.8 Juventus, International Club Football

Comey
1.2 Boston Celtics, NBA
2.7 Alabama Crimson Tide, NCAA Football
3.2 San Francisco 49ers, NFL
4.7 Chicago Cubs, MLB
5.2 University of Kansas, NCAA men's basketball
6.7 Toronto Maple Leafs, NHL
7.2 Inter Milan, International Club Football
8.7 Penn State Nittany Lions Women's Volleyball, NCAA Other

Grover
1.3 Real Madrid Club de Fútbol, International Club Football
2.6 Pittsburgh Steelers, NFL
3.3 Detroit Red Wings, NHL
4.6 San Francisco Giants, MLB
5.3 New York Knickerbockers, NBA
6.6 Ohio State University, NCAA Football
7.3 Oklahoma A&M/Oklahoma State, Wrestling (NCAA Other)
8.6 Louisville Cardinals, NCAA Basketball

spleen1015
1.4 New York Yankees, MLB
2.5 Kentucky Wildcats, NCAA Basketball
3.4 Liverpool Football Club, International Club Football
4.5 Iowa Hawkeyes Wrestling, NCAA Other
5.4 Boston Bruins - NHL
6.5 Grambling State University, NCAA Football
7.4 Oakland Raiders - NFL
8.5 Houston Rockets, NBA

britrock88
1.5 Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers, NBA
2.4 Montreal Canadiens, NHL
3.5 North Carolina Women's Soccer, NCAA Other
4.4 AC Milan, International Club Football
5.5 USC Trojans, NCAA Football
6.4 New England Patriots, NFL
7.5 UConn Huskies, NCAA Basketball
8.4 Cincinnati Reds, MLB

Bisbo
1.6 Dallas Cowboys, NFL
2.3 Los Angeles Dodgers, MLB
3.6 University of Connecticut Women's Basketball, NCAA Other
4.3 Duke Blue Devils, NCAA Basketball
5.6 Oklahoma Sooners, NCAA Football
6.3 Bayern Munich, International Club Soccer
7.6 NY Rangers, NHL
8.3 Detroit Pistons, NBA

NTO
1.7 Notre Dame, NCAA Football
2.2 Boston Red Sox, MLB
3.7 North Carolina Tarheels, NCAA Basketball
4.2 FC Barcelona, International Club Football
5.7 Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers, NBA
6.2 New York Giants, NFL
7.7 Chicago Blackhawks, NHL
8.2 Texas Longhorn Baseball, NCAA Other

larrymcg421
1.8 Manchester United, International Club Football
2.1 Green Bay Packers, NFL
3.8 Chicago Bulls, NBA
4.1 Indiana Hoosiers, NCAA Basketball
5.8 Nebraska Cornhuskers, NCAA Football
6.1 Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves, MLB
7.8 Pittsburgh Penguins, NHL
8.1 Syracuse Men's Lacrosse, NCAA Other

[WSUCougar]

1.1 St. Louis Cardinals, MLB

Screw the Yankees!

[Subby]

^^^^ downvote ^^^^

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

fyi- i'll be in and out this afternoon (that's what she said?) but will check in periodically

[Comey]

They won't be around when the draft gets back to me, and I think the slippage will be pretty far. So...

1.2 Boston Celtics, NBA

Grover is up.

[Grover]

1.3 Real Madrid Club de Fútbol, International Club Football

[spleen1015]

1.4 New York Yankees, MLB

They should have been 1.1, so I have to take them here.

[Chief Rum]

No bad choices so far, although it's interesting to me that in every case, I would have picked a different team first for that category. Also, while the Cards are a solid pick, I think they could have been had on the next turnaround.

[Grover]

No bad choices so far, although it's interesting to me that in every case, I would have picked a different team first for that category (Yanks, Lakers, Man U). Also, while the Cards are a solid pick, I think they could have been had on the next turnaround.

9 times European Champions is untouched.

[Lathum]

How on earth do you first 3 not take the Yankees at 1.1. Must be my east coast bias.

[Lathum]

9 times European Champions is untouched.

Yankees- 25? Time champs

[larrymcg421]

Yeah that amazed me. I hate everything about the Yankees but they're the easy 1.1

[Grover]

Yankees- 25? Time champs

Real Madrid: 32 La Ligas, 18 Copa del Ray, 9 UCL.

I had meant in terms of footballing success, but hey.

[spleen1015]

Yeah that amazed me. I hate everything about the Yankees but they're the easy 1.1

+1. I didn't think there was anyway they would get to me. People is crazy.

[Chief Rum]

9 times European Champions is untouched.

Your pick is the least questionable of the three, IMO. Real Madrid is a great pick (and so were the Cards and Celtics, actually).

But I think another club in particular adds more "oomph", especially if you consider that the voters at the end of this draft will mostly be American-based, and has more affinity and familiarity with the EPL than with the other great European leagues.

[Lathum]

Your pick is the least questionable of the three, IMO. Real Madrid is a great pick (and so were the Cards and Celtics, actually).

But I think Man U adds more "oomph", especially if you consider that the voters at the end of this draft will mostly be American-based, and has more affinity and familiarity with the EPL than with the other great European leagues.

He could have gotten them in round 3-4

[Marmel]

Yankees- 25? Time champs

26, get it right. :)

[MizzouRah]

1.1 St. Louis Cardinals, MLB

Screw the Yankees!

I approve! ;)

[Lathum]

26, get it right. :)

In my mind the subway series didn't happen

[larrymcg421]

Good point, but we're doing a bit too much talking about potential picks here, which is usually frowned upon in these drafts.

[sterlingice]

Whoops- deleted

I'm used to the fantasy leagues I'm in where the table talk is encouraged

SI

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, we're 2.5 of 3 on picks I disagree with as the top franchise for the sport. (I can go 50/50 on Celtics over The Other NBA Team).

[britrock88]

1.5 Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers, NBA

16 titles (only 1 behind the Celtics) and 15 other Finals appearances (9 of them against the Celtics), giving them 31 total Finals appearances in 64 NBA seasons. I don't think you can top that kind of sustained excellence.

[stevew]

this draft is dumb if the yankees don't go 1.1

[spleen1015]

1.5 Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers, NBA

16 titles (only 1 behind the Celtics) and 15 other Finals appearances (9 of them against the Celtics), giving them 31 total Finals appearances in 64 NBA seasons. I don't think you can top that kind of sustained excellence.

This was going to be my pick if the Yankees hadn't made it to me.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

aw crud

[Chief Rum]

Yankees at 4 and Lakers at 5 are homeruns, IMO.

[Bisbo]

1.6 Dallas Cowboys, NFL

As a Redskins fan, I absolutely detest this team, but they are (supposedly) America's Team.

(Really was hoping for the Lakers here).

[Chief Rum]

He could have gotten them in round 3-4

I definitely agree he could have gone after soccer later, but I disagree he could have gotten Real Madrid in rounds 3-4. They were always guaranteed to be one of the top 2-3 teams in that category, and our group here is conscious enough soccer and foreign soccer clubs that I am thinking at least half this group will have their soccer club before the end of the third round.

[Chief Rum]

1.6 Dallas Cowboys, NFL

As a Redskins fan, I absolutely detest this team, but they are (supposedly) America's Team.

(Really was hoping for the Lakers here).

I was debating the first choice for football with my brother at lunch (cuz we talk about crap like this, lol) and the Cowboys were my first inclination. But then I thought of another one I like better, and then my bro topped me with another.

I really think it's harder to get a clearcut "top choice" from the NFL, so it wouldn't have surprised me if the first NFL team didn't even go in the first round, simply because the quality dropoff is sharper in the other categories.

For instance, basketball is probably done for a round now that the Lakers and Celtics are off the board.

[Bisbo]

I was debating the first choice for football with my brother at lunch (cuz we talk about crap like this, lol) and the Cowboys were my first inclination. But then I thought of another one I like better, and then my bro topped me with another.

I really think it's harder to get a clearcut "top choice" from the NFL, so it wouldn't have surprised me if the first NFL team didn't even go in the first round, simply because the quality dropoff is sharper in the other categories.

For instance, basketball is probably done for a round now that the Lakers and Celtics are off the board.

This captures the internal debate I was having before making this pick. There are certainly other categories that are thinner at the top, but I didn't want to assemble a portfolio of big fish in small ponds, so I went for a premium, major brand here.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

welp... crap i dunno. let's try this

1.7 Notre Dame, NCAA Football

[Chief Rum]

welp... crap i dunno. let's try this

1.7 Notre Dame, NCAA Football

Excellent choice. Although NCAA Football is pretty deep, too, this is both traditionally and currently a top choice.

[Comey]

My reasoning is easy...there are several baseball franchises that will be back to me in the second. Or the third. NFL too, and quite a few soccer clubs. But NBA? It's C's, Lakers, Bulls...all three will likely be gone by the time it gets back to me (you can't take the Heat or OKC yet, in terms of total prestige).

As a result, on sheer value, the Celtics were the best pick for me at that spot. Of course, this is my opinion, and me rationalizing rushing a pick over my lunch break. It was C's, Yanks, or another pick. I simply wanted to take the Celtics (I also love the franchise, so sentimental value over the Yanks won out, too).

[larrymcg421]

1.8 Manchester United, International Club Football

2.1 Green Bay Packers, NFL

[Coffee Warlord]

Two awesome picks. As much as it pains me to admit the Packers are an awesome pick.

[spleen1015]

I had both of those as #1 in their categories.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

2.2 Boston Red Sox, MLB

less titles more brand recognition than the alternative.

[Chief Rum]

1.8 Manchester United, International Club Football

2.1 Green Bay Packers, NFL

I edited out my original commentary on the Real Madrid pick, but of course, readers following along will have already noted that I thought Man U was the best first pick from the soccer clubs.

The Pack was the team my bro topped me with when we discussed this at lunch, so obviously, I think that's an excellent choice. The team I thought topped the Cowboys is still out there. ;)

An excellent two choices by larry.

[Bisbo]

3. Los Angeles Dodgers

Last of the 'Big 3' in the MLB, in my view.

[Chief Rum]

3. Los Angeles Dodgers

Last of the 'Big 3' in the MLB, in my view.

I agree, although there are a couple others that aren't that far off from the big three, IMO.

[spleen1015]

3. Los Angeles Dodgers

Last of the 'Big 3' in the MLB, in my view.

#2 on my MLB list.

I have no idea where to go with my next pick...

[Chief Rum]

In my head, I have six teams I think that could go here. I will be curious to see how long they last.

[Comey]

1.8 Manchester United, International Club Football

2.1 Green Bay Packers, NFL

These were the other two picks I was considering at 1.2. Grover can post my texts to him when he was updating (though he shouldn't post the other ones...those pics are NSFW LOLZ).

[Chief Rum]

These were the other two picks I was considering at 1.2. Grover can post my texts to him when he was updating (though he shouldn't post the other ones...those pics are NSFW LOLZ).

Other than going Celtics over Lakers, I think you made the right choice there. Second overall pick is too soon for the top soccer pick, and there is too much depth in the NFL to pick the top team there, too.

[britrock88]

2.4 Montreal Canadiens, NHL

24 Stanley Cups in 34 Finals. Much like the Yankees in baseball in how far they are ahead of the field in their sport, but better because you swap Steinbrenner for Quebec. Even if you're the type to rag on the NHL for its limited appeal, wouldn't the Canadiens' recognizability prove just how dominant they have been?

[Grover]

2.4 Montreal Canadiens, NHL

24 Stanley Cups in 34 Finals. Much like the Yankees in baseball in how far they are ahead of the field in their sport, but better because you swap Steinbrenner for Quebec. Even if you're the type to rag on the NHL for its limited appeal, wouldn't the Canadiens' recognizability prove just how dominant they have been?

This was my next pick, good on you.

[Chief Rum]

2.4 Montreal Canadiens, NHL

24 Stanley Cups in 34 Finals. Much like the Yankees in baseball in how far they are ahead of the field in their sport, but better because you swap Steinbrenner for Quebec. Even if you're the type to rag on the NHL for its limited appeal, wouldn't the Canadiens' recognizability prove just how dominant they have been?

Not one of my six, but a solid choice.

[Bisbo]

2.4 Montreal Canadiens, NHL

24 Stanley Cups in 34 Finals. Much like the Yankees in baseball in how far they are ahead of the field in their sport, but better because you swap Steinbrenner for Quebec. Even if you're the type to rag on the NHL for its limited appeal, wouldn't the Canadiens' recognizability prove just how dominant they have been?

Excellent pick - that's who I was considering taking instead of the Dodgers.

[britrock88]

If my round 3 target gets to me, I'll be quite satisfied no matter how 4-8 goes.

[Carman Bulldog]

I detest the Yankees and cheer against them, but in a draft of this sort, I'm not sure how they can not go first overall.

[Lathum]

I detest the Yankees and cheer against them, but in a draft of this sort, I'm not sure how they can not go first overall.

At the very least be the first baseball team. To take the Cardinals first is Shia Labouf bad

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

eh, man has principle. probably could have grabbed the cards in the 2nd though

[stevew]

Probably later than that.

Michael Olowokandi bad.

[spleen1015]

Sorry guys. I saw the Canadians pic and didn't realize I was up.

I'm looking at my pick.

[WSUCougar]

While I don't begrudge you guys your opinions (that's what these drafts are for), before you hang me from the nearest tree can I state my reasoning?

The intent of this draft was to select the most prestigious franchises. "Prestigious" is defined in the dictionary as "having a high reputation; honored; esteemed."

It's indisputable that the Yankees have the most championships, but the goal of the draft isn't to select the most successful franchises. The Yankees would get my vote as probably the most notorious franchise in that almost everyone outside of New York despises them. Does that make them of high reputation, honored, and esteemed? Well, I guess that's debatable.

The Cardinals, on the other hand, are a clear #2 in terms of championships, but outside of certain parts of Illinois I doubt many people despise the franchise. For much of baseball history they were THE team for most of the western and southern United States, and they still have a wide and passionate following known as Cardinal Nation.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

haters gonna hate. fuck the yankees

[spleen1015]

2.5 Kentucky Men's Basketball - NCAA Basketball

Next.

[Grover]

2.6 Pittsburgh Steelers, NFL

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

ack. nice pick Grover

[Grover]

ack. nice pick Grover

It pains me deep inside to pick them.

[Comey]

2.7 Alabama Crimson Tide, NCAA Football

[WSUCougar]

2.6 Pittsburgh Steelers, NFL

Damn you, sir. :rant:

[WSUCougar]

2.8 UCLA Bruins, college basketball

Now excuse me for a moment, while I go vomit.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

don't go too far you've got another pick

[Grover]

2.8 UCLA Bruins, college basketball

Now excuse me for a moment, while I go vomit.

Was hoping that'd get back to me.

[JPhillips]

While I don't begrudge you guys your opinions (that's what these drafts are for), before you hang me from the nearest tree can I state my reasoning?

The intent of this draft was to select the most prestigious franchises. "Prestigious" is defined in the dictionary as "having a high reputation; honored; esteemed."

It's indisputable that the Yankees have the most championships, but the goal of the draft isn't to select the most successful franchises. The Yankees would get my vote as probably the most notorious franchise in that almost everyone outside of New York despises them. Does that make them of high reputation, honored, and esteemed? Well, I guess that's debatable.

The Cardinals, on the other hand, are a clear #2 in terms of championships, but outside of certain parts of Illinois I doubt many people despise the franchise. For much of baseball history they were THE team for most of the western and southern United States, and they still have a wide and passionate following known as Cardinal Nation.

There's certainly chunks of Ohio and Wisconsin that hate them!

[WSUCougar]

3.1 Michigan Wolverines, college football

Tough pick, especially with the big gap of 15 picks coming up for me, but I'll go with the all-time Division One wins leader.

[britrock88]

You have a few partisans in the thread that support this pick. :thumbsup:

[Logan]

I think this will be a very easy draft for voters to score using the 1-8 method.

[Izulde]

I'm shocked spleen took Kentucky, especially with the Wildcats' point-shaving scandal back in '51.

[Comey]

3.2 San Francisco 49ers, NFL

[spleen1015]

I'm shocked spleen took Kentucky, especially with the Wildcats' point-shaving scandal back in '51.

I went with them because they have historical prestige and present day prestige. Lack of current day prestige was why I didn't take UCLA and that was probably a mistake.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

it's a dead heat in my book. ucla has the better heritage but kentucky has transitioned better to the modern game

[Grover]

3.3 Detroit Red Wings, NHL

[WSUCougar]

3.3 Detroit Red Wings, NHL

Nice

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

yep

[Chief Rum]

So four of the six teams I thought should be next have been taken, Kentucky, Alabama, the Steelers and the Wings.

Although they weren't part of my six, UCLA and Michigan are both excellent picks, IMO. I only left off UCLA because I am a UCLA fan and I didn't want to be biased. But they're right there with Kentucky, for the reasons mentioned.

Michigan is probably the #3 college football team after Bama and Notre Dame, when you consider all relevant historical factors.

I wasn't terribly in love with the Niners pick. Nothing wrong with them, they are solidly prestigious, but I felt at least two teams in the NFL alone should have gone before them, much less other categories.

[Bisbo]

Was hoping the Red Wings would be there for me - good pick.

[spleen1015]

Well, I don't know anything about this category. I want to get it out of the way. I have 2 teams in mind for this pick but I don't know which one is the better and I don't really know if these 2 are next in line. :D

3.4 Liverpool Football Club, International Club Football

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

ain't nothing wrong with that

[Grover]

Well, I don't know anything about this category. I want to get it out of the way. I have 2 teams in mind for this pick but I don't know which one is the better and I don't really know if these 2 are next in line. :D

3.4 Liverpool Football Club, International Club Football

Great history, only one or two un-selected teams I'd take in their place.

[Vince, Pt. II]

So four of the six teams I thought should be next have been taken, Kentucky, Alabama, the Steelers and the Wings.

Although they weren't part of my six, UCLA and Michigan are both excellent picks, IMO. I only left off UCLA because I am a UCLA fan and I didn't want to be biased. But they're right there with Kentucky, for the reasons mentioned.

Michigan is probably the #3 college football team after Bama and Notre Dame, when you consider all relevant historical factors.

I wasn't terribly in love with the Niners pick. Nothing wrong with them, they are solidly prestigious, but I felt at least two teams in the NFL alone should have gone before them, much less other categories.

Best QB in history, best WR in history, best S in history, more Super Bowl wins than everyone but the Steelers and a perfect 1.000 win percentage in the big game. Plus Green Bay, Dallas and Pittsburgh are off the board. You're nuts if you think there are 5 more prestigious teams than the 49ers in the NFL.

[Grover]

Best QB in history, best WR in history, best S in history, more Super Bowl wins than everyone but the Steelers and a perfect 1.000 win percentage in the big game. Plus Green Bay, Dallas and Pittsburgh are off the board. You're nuts if you think there are 5 more prestigious teams than the 49ers in the NFL.

Agreed.

[spleen1015]

Yeah, they were next in line for me.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Not to pile on, but I also think there's a HUGE drop off between San Francisco and the rest of the NFL at this point.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

still not as bad as the chasm between the lakers/celtics and the rest of the nba

[Chief Rum]

This would be true except for two things:

A) The NFL did not begin play in 1981.
B) There is more to prestige than winning football games and having great players.

The Packers and Steelers are largely ahead of the Niners because of success prior to 1980 (although they are helped by being recently successful as well).

The Cowboys are ahead of the Niners not so much on the level of Super Bowl wins and great players (they are roughly comparable), but because the Dallas Cowboys transcend their actual play with their image, Amercia's Team. Regardless of whether you like or dislike the Cowboys and their image, they are "bigger" than what they are; they have a persona that identifies them above and beyond reality. That is why they are ahead of the Niners.

One of the two teams I think is higher is mostly so because of their history, and slightly on their persona. The other team is higher mostly on their persona, but they do also have some significant history/on field success.

[Chief Rum]

Not to pile on, but I also think there's a HUGE drop off between San Francisco and the rest of the NFL at this point.

That's your opinion. I strongly disagree.

[Chief Rum]

Well, I don't know anything about this category. I want to get it out of the way. I have 2 teams in mind for this pick but I don't know which one is the better and I don't really know if these 2 are next in line. :D

3.4 Liverpool Football Club, International Club Football

Terrific choice. As stated by others, I think they are in the discussion for the next club or two to take after Man U and Real Madrid.

[britrock88]

3.5 North Carolina Women's Soccer, NCAA Other

On Sunday, as the underdog, they outshot 1-seed Penn State 24-12 in notching a 4-1 win for their 22nd national championship. More remarkable is that the Tar Heels have amassed those 22 titles in only 32 years of sanctioned competition -- they've more than doubled the field. On its own, this team has the 22nd most national championships in team sports among NCAA Division 1 schools. We praise the Yankees and Habs for winning a title about 1 of every 4 years, but this team wins a title every year and a half. Crazy. I know of no other team that is this dominant in its sphere of competition.

I also think this will be the best-looking team chosen in this draft, so take that for what it's worth. :D

[Grover]

3.5 North Carolina Women's Soccer, NCAA Other

On Sunday, as the underdog, they outshot 1-seed Penn State 24-12 in notching a 4-1 win for their 22nd national championship. More remarkable is that the Tar Heels have amassed those 22 titles in only 32 years of sanctioned competition -- they've more than doubled the field. On its own, this team has the 22nd most national championships in team sports among NCAA Division 1 schools. We praise the Yankees and Habs for winning a title about 1 of every 4 years, but this team wins a title every year and a half. Crazy. I know of no other team that is this dominant in its sphere of competition.

I also think this will be the best-looking team chosen in this draft, so take that for what it's worth. :D

DAMN YOU!

Awesome pick.

[spleen1015]

Nicely done. I considered going that route with my pick.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

did not expect that. but pretty damn solid

[Vince, Pt. II]

That's your opinion. I strongly disagree.

Understood. I'm very curious as to the discussions once the two teams come off the board.

[britrock88]

I have two UNC degrees and my sister has friends who are/were on the team, so it wasn't going to slip past me. :)

[britrock88]

If you'll indulge another tidbit or two...

The team's all-time record is 714-43-29.

And a vote of confidence: "This is a women's soccer school," Dean Smith said before he retired as the men's basketball coach. "We're just trying to keep up."

[Chief Rum]

Understood. I'm very curious as to the discussions once the two teams come off the board.

Me, too. And just to be clear, I'm not trying to be dismissive of the Niners. They have their place, too, IMO, and are definitely on that short list after the three that are already off of the board. They are a great pick.

[Bisbo]

3.6 University of Connecticut Women's Basketball, NCAA Other

Four perfect seasons. 90 game winning streak. Seven national titles.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

3.7 North Carolina Tarheels, NCAA Basketball

that's for you brittrock

[larrymcg421]

3.8 Chicago Bulls - NBA

4.1 Indiana - NCAABB

[Vince, Pt. II]

While there is a rather large gulf between Boston/LA and Chicago, I think the gap between Chicago and the next NBA franchise is bigger. That could be because I grew up in the Jordan era or because I'm not as avid a fan of the NBA, though.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

damn. blue chip or stop the bleeding... bah

4.2 FC Barcelona, International Club Football

[Coffee Warlord]

Comey and Larry are my top 2 at the moment, I think.

[Subby]

Regardless of what you think of the Cards as a prestigious franchise, there is no justification for taking them 1.1. Drafts are often graded on value and St. Louis at 1.1 is horrible value. No one outside of a total Cardinals homer is taking a team other than Yanks/Dodgers/Red Sox in the first round, and the latter two are a stretch.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i dunno. everybody looks good at this point. i think the last few rounds will be the deciding factor

[Bisbo]

4.3 Duke Blue Devils, NCAA Basketball

[Bisbo]

Damn you NTO - thought Barcelona would be there for me.

[WSUCougar]

Regardless of what you think of the Cards as a prestigious franchise, there is no justification for taking them 1.1. Drafts are often graded on value and St. Louis at 1.1 is horrible value. No one outside of a total Cardinals homer is taking a team other than Yanks/Dodgers/Red Sox in the first round, and the latter two are a stretch.

It would be an interesting debate to hear how the Dodgers and Red Sox are more prestigious than the Cardinals.

[Chief Rum]

3.8 Chicago Bulls - NBA

4.1 Indiana - NCAABB

The Bulls were one of the two remaining teams I thought could have been taken in the middle of round two. I agree with Vince that the gulf between the Bulls and the next NBA team is pretty significant.

There is only one of the original six I had in mind left. I am surprised they have not come off the board ahead of some other choices. I am also surprised to see the recent run on NCAA basketball teams ahead of some top end football teams.

[Chief Rum]

It would be an interesting debate to hear how the Dodgers and Red Sox are more prestigious than the Cardinals.

I think the issue here is partly that you're viewing it a little differently than others. I also think this same impression is the crux in the discussion between Vince and myself over the Niners as well. It's not just about wins and losses, titles, great players. It's the whole package. Wins, titles, players, yes. And image. And history. And recent performance. And cultural impact. It's everything embodied in a franchise.

And frankly the Dodgers and Red Sox have had a bigger "impact" in an overall way than the Cardinals, when you consider all factors.

[stevew]

I'm probably going to cast my vote for the most racist nicknames profile. So if anyone can grab the Indians(or braves) and Redskins I might be in the tank for you.

[Chief Rum]

Through three rounds, I like larry best, and spleen and Grover are fighting for #2. Comey is a darkhorse.

[spleen1015]

I know what my next pick is and Britrock has already picked in this category. Can I go ahead and make my pick? I'll be away from the board until after 8pm.

[Vince, Pt. II]

PM it to Norv or an innocent bystander who'll be around. I'm taking off in about 20 minutes, so I'm probably not a good choice.

[Subby]

It would be an interesting debate to hear how the Dodgers and Red Sox are more prestigious than the Cardinals.
Probably true.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

well, i can only speak for myself but when i think of esteemed baseball franchises the cards are definitely in the top 3. maybe number 2. tradition, fan base, always competitive. they seem to do all the right things.

the reason i emphasized prestige is because i didn't want it to turn into a math equation of who has the most titles. not that titles don't count but to put it in wall street terms your looking for the steady producers with the least volatility

edit: of course the voters may feel differently :p

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

ooh i like spleen's pick

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

boooo. poor form waldorf

[britrock88]

3.7 North Carolina Tarheels, NCAA Basketball

that's for you brittrock

I'll do my best to cope. ;)

[stevew]

boooo. poor form waldorf

ok, i forgot those teams haven't been taken.

[Chief Rum]

It seems britrock is unaware it is his turn.

[Big Fo]

Kinda surprised Liverpool was the third soccer club chosen. But not nearly as much as seeing the St. Louis Cardinals as the first overall pick. For me they are the number two MLB team in this draft but there is a big gap between them and number one (Yankees obviously) and probably should have been a second or even third round pick.

[britrock88]

4.4 AC Milan, International Club Football

35 top-2 Serie A finishes with 18 league wins (they won in '11 and were runners-up in '12). Internationally, they're second to Madrid in Champions League wins, with 7, and total final appearances, with 11. 2 of those wins and 1 other appearance have come in the last decade. And although they were caught up in that 2006 scandal, they were the least culpable of the 4 teams involved (as judged by sanctions).

In essence, Madrid and Milan are the most accomplished sides in European play.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

nice pick brit

spleen1015 selects:

4.5 Iowa Hawkeyes Wrestling, NCAA Other

love that pick

Grover you're up!

[larrymcg421]

nice pick brit

spleen1015 selects:

4.5 Iowa Hawkeyes Wrestling, NCAA Other

love that pick

Grover you're up!

Was hoping this would slide back to me. Ugh.

[Grover]

4.6 San Francisco Giants, MLB

[Coffee Warlord]

Hmm. Not so sure about all the other picks in relatively obscure sports this early in the draft. Seems to me that can be picked up just as easily later.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Based on some of the other comments, it seems like there were others on the board for the same teams though. I'm equally confused.

Edit: So I don't confuse anyone else with my poorly worded response: it seems that there were other draftees considering the same obscure teams, so they may not have lasted.

[Chief Rum]

Giants were the #4 MLB team in my mind, barely ahead of the Cards and a couple other teams that have not been picked yet.

[Chief Rum]

I'm with you, Vince and CW. I was confused by that category even being in this draft. But the drafters seem content with it and are using it to advantage, so, good for them.

[jbergey22]

At first glance Spleen is rocking it in this draft so far.

[WSUCougar]

Giants were the #4 MLB team in my mind, barely ahead of the Cards and a couple other teams that have not been picked yet.
All else aside, I'm stunned you don't think the St. Louis Cardinals are one of the four most prestigious franchises in MLB. :eek:

I do think this is worthy of a separate thread. I'd love to hear the arguments.

[Sun Tzu]

Surprising to me that nobody has brought up the SF/NY Giants Baseball team discussion yet. The NY Giants were a powerhouse of epic proportions before the move to SF, appearing in 14 World Series' from 1905 to 1954 (winning half of them). That's an average of one World Series appearance every 3.5 years. The Giants (as a franchise) have appeared in a total of 19 World Series', second only to the New York Yankees. More than the Cardinals.

I was also surprised that the 49ers went so late, and the Yankees weren't taken 1.1. I mean...the Cardinals? Seriously?

[JPhillips]

nice pick brit

spleen1015 selects:

4.5 Iowa Hawkeyes Wrestling, NCAA Other

love that pick

Grover you're up!

This may be the only non-major NCAA dynasty that has much prestige. Iowa is wrestling in a way that no other school defines a sport.

[Vince, Pt. II]

All else aside, I'm stunned you don't think the St. Louis Cardinals are one of the four most prestigious franchises in MLB. :eek:

I do think this is worthy of a separate thread. I'd love to hear the arguments.

I think part of it is that the Giants have the Dodgers, and the Yankees have the Red Sox. Sort of like a package deal. Who do the Cardinals hate? The Cubs. The Cubs haven't been relevant in over a hundred years.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think spleen's draft has been great so far, but he's going to be stuck with some real stinkers for the categories he doesn't have yet, and the dropoff doesn't seem to be so steep for the people who haven't picked in his categories. I think by the end, spleen's going to be on the outside looking in for the medal podium. I think Grover's the favorite at this point, though Brit, NTO and larry have strong teams as well. Coug's done a nice job recovering from the Cardinals pick, but again he's going to be left with scraps in some very important categories.

[spleen1015]

4.4 AC Milan, International Club Football

35 top-2 Serie A finishes with 18 league wins (they won in '11 and were runners-up in '12). Internationally, they're second to Madrid in Champions League wins, with 7, and total final appearances, with 11. 2 of those wins and 1 other appearance have come in the last decade. And although they were caught up in that 2006 scandal, they were the least culpable of the 4 teams involved (as judged by sanctions).

In essence, Madrid and Milan are the most accomplished sides in European play.

This was the other team I was considering when I took Liverpool. I keyed in on Liverpool's 18 Premiere League championships. I know pretty much nothing about European soccer, so... :)

I don't think I'm in that bad of a position right now after reading some of the commentary. :D

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

comey comey comey comey chameleon
you come and go
you come and go o o o

can't wait to hear the sales pitches for the nba teams most of us are stuck with

[Grover]

comey comey comey comey chameleon
you come and go
you come and go o o o

can't wait to hear the sales pitches for the nba teams most of us are stuck with

I texted him at 6:23, at 7:30 he said "I'll pick in awhile."

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i was just bringing a little boy george to the thread. no real urgency :chickendance:

[Comey]

Nobody has actually text-sang that to me yet. So, there's that.

Pick coming. Have a couple of choices to make.

[tarcone]

Spleen gets my vote with the Iowa wrestling pick. What an outstanding franchise.

[Comey]

Because nothing says prestige like losing...

4.7 Chicago Cubs, MLB

[WSUCougar]

4.8 Chicago Bears, NFL

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm probably going to cast my vote for the most racist nicknames profile. So if anyone can grab the Indians(or braves) and Redskins I might be in the tank for you.

Here you go...

Cleveland Indians (MLB)
Washington Redskins (NFL)
Golden State Warriors (NBA)
Chicago Blackhawks (NHL)
Kaizer Chiefs F.C. (Club soccer)
Florida State Seminoles (NCAAF)
Utah Utes (NCAAB)
North Dakota Fighting Sioux (NCAA Hockey)

[WSUCougar]

5.1 Univ of Tennessee, NCAA women's basketball

[Comey]

University of Kansas, NCAA men's basketball

[Grover]

5.3 New York Knickerbockers, NBA

[claphamsa]

pardon my ignorance... but what is the criteria? best now? best ever? most titles? or just l33tn33s?

thank you please drive through (also real madrid sucks)

[britrock88]

CB - party foul.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

initial controversy aside there haven't been any head-scratchers. i'm just nodding as i cut n paste all these

[britrock88]

Because nothing says prestige like losing...

4.7 Chicago Cubs, MLB

I like this pick. They're famed for their tough luck.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

pardon my ignorance... but what is the criteria? best now? best ever? most titles? or just l33tn33s?

thank you please drive through (also real madrid sucks)
prestige. however you want to define that

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

lady vols and bears were solid at the turn. Grover looks strong

[spleen1015]

5.4 Boston Bruins - NHL

To continue with the theme of recent success and historical success....

[britrock88]

5.5 USC Trojans, NCAA Football

In line with Alabama, Notre Dame, and Michigan in recognized national championships is USC, with 10. Better still, USC has two '00s titles that are more recent than the latest titles earned by Notre Dame (1988) and Michigan (1997). They have produced more NFL draftees than any other college football team, as many Heisman winners as any other school, and have amassed a monstrous 24-8 record in the Rose Bowl.

If you need any further persuasion, USC has the Song Girls.

[Johnny93g]

5.4 Boston Bruins - NHL

To continue with the theme of recent success and historical success....

Historical success? Do you mean the 70 year period when they won 2 cups?

[Chief Rum]

The Bears were the sixth team I thought could go halfway through the second round. They're a steal at this point, IMO.

For Vince's benefit, they're one of the two teams I was thinking as being ones I would choose before the Niners.

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Bears were the only one of the two I think you have any kind of argument for, but it begins and ends with 1985. And for the record, I still think you're crazy :)

Postscript: I looked up the Bears a little bit, and I didn't realize how long they'd been around and how successful they were pre-merger. 8 titles, more wins than any other team and one of only two NFL charter franchises. They deserve a bit more of a bump, but I would still put them solidly behind the 'top 4' of SF, GB, Pittsburgh and Dallas.

[spleen1015]

Historical success? Do you mean the 70 year period when they won 2 cups?

They've been in the Stanley Cup Finals at least once every decade since the 1920s except the 1930s and the 2000s. What other team has that is still available?

[Grover]

bump.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i pm'd Bisbo. hopefully we can wrap this up today

[Grover]

i pm'd Bisbo. hopefully we can wrap this up today

That'd be rad.

[Bisbo]

5.6 Oklahoma Sooners, NCAA Football

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

5.7 Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers, NBA

[Chief Rum]

I like the two NBA picks since the top three came off the board. After the Celtics, Lakers and Bulls, it was going to be hard to grab relevant franchises after that, but you can't do any better than the Knicks and Sixers. Both are teams with history and large followings and a notable stamp on the league.

I'm not as much in love with the Oklahoma pick over some others, but it's not bad either. I think at this point it would be hard to pick an NCAA football team that would bring an appreciable interest from about 5-10 others.

[larrymcg421]

5.8 Nebraska Cornhuskers, NCAA Football

6.1 Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves, MLB

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

6.2 New York Giants, NFL

eh. not too bad. at least i got an original member (that's what she said?)

[WSUCougar]

Nice picks, Larry

[Bisbo]

6.3 Bayern Munich, International Club Soccer

[WSUCougar]

6.3 Bayern Munich, International Club Soccer

Well, damn

[Chief Rum]

A strong run of choices. Strangely enough, in nearly all of them, I can think of slightly better options in their categories that are still available, but I think a lot of that is just quibbling and opinion.

[britrock88]

6.4 New England Patriots, NFL

Say what you will about the Patriots before Parcells (though they did have 1 AFL Championship appearance and 1 Super Bowl appearance in that time). Once Tuna came around, though, the Patriots were well on their way to becoming the most successful, methodical, and destructive NFL team of the last 15 years. They've made 6 of the last 16 Super Bowls, going 3-3, they've amassed 13 10-win seasons and playoff appearances in 18 years, and they have set all kinds if records in so doing (points scored, TD passes in a season, 16-0 regular season and 18 wins in a season, etc.). And beyond the accolades, they have the most formidable and recognizable faces of the franchise in the NFL with Brady and Belichick.

[spleen1015]

6.5 Grambling State University, NCAA Football

[Grover]

6.6 Ohio State University, NCAA Football

[WSUCougar]

THE Ohio State University?

[Comey]

6.7 Toronto Maple Leafs, NHL

[Bisbo]

6.7 Toronto Maple Leafs, NHL

The good news - an original NHL team with lots of success.

The bad news - not in the last 40 years.

Still, the logical pick at this point.

[britrock88]

Ping Maple Leafs...

[Comey]

The good news - an original NHL team with lots of success.

The bad news - not in the last 40 years.

Still, the logical pick at this point.

I was at odds with this for a couple of rounds, as Grover can attest. That said...it was either them or one other team.

[WSUCougar]

6.8 San Antonio Spurs, NBA

[WSUCougar]

I agonized over a couple other options here, but I'm going with these guys based on their dynasty years and of course The Great One.

7.1 Edmonton Oilers, NHL

[Comey]

7.2 Inter Milan, International Club Football

[Grover]

7.3 Oklahoma A&M/Oklahoma State, Wrestling (NCAA Other)

34 NCAA titles to Iowa's 22, that's all I'm going to say.

[spleen1015]

7.4 Oakland Raiders - NFL

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/449064/ice-cube.jpg

[britrock88]

7.5 UConn Huskies, NCAA Basketball

Say what you will about the Huskies before Calhoun (though they did have 13/3/1 NCAAs/Sweet 16s/Elite 8). Once Calhoun came around, though, the Huskies were well on their way to becoming the most successful, methodical, and destructive NCAA basketball team of the last 15 years. They've won 3 of the last 14 titles in 4 Final Four appearances, they've amassed 13 Sweet 16s and 9 Elite 8s since 1990, and have produced all kinds of NBA talent in doing so (Ray Allen, Rudy Gay, Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, Donyell Marshall, Clifford Robinson, Kemba Walker...). And Jim Calhoun left the bench as one of the most recognized and revered coaches in the game.

[EagleFan]

The Cardinals went before the Yankees and the Cowboys went before the Steelers?

[Danny]

No one has taken the Charlotte Bobcats yet? Wow

[stevew]

7.4 Oakland Raiders - NFL

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/449064/ice-cube.jpg

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/guyspeed.com/files/2012/06/Raiders_face_Tattoo.jpg

[Danny]

Raiders would be a good pick in the draft of infamous teams. Prestigous? Not so much. And I am Raiders fan, these last 25 years have not been pretty.

[Bisbo]

7.6 New York Rangers, NHL

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

7.7 Chicago Blackhawks, NHL

[britrock88]

Spleen's and my 5th-round picks are missing from the front page, NTO.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

gotcha thx brit

any opinions on the voting thread? write in 1-2-3, write in 1-8, poll? polls get more votes

[larrymcg421]

7.8 Pittsburgh Penguins, NHL

8.1 Syracuse, NCAA Men's Lacrosse, Other

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

dammit larry. knew i shoulda went cuse first.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

8.2 Texas Longhorn Baseball, NCAA Other

[Chief Rum]

Raiders would be a good pick in the draft of infamous teams. Prestigous? Not so much. And I am Raiders fan, these last 25 years have not been pretty.

I'm not a Raiders fan, and I say the opposite. This is the other team I was talking about with Vince. Prestige isn't just about the last 25 years, nor is it just about winning.

The Raiders have three Super Bowl titles, and much success historically. And they have some incredible players in their history. But what truly elevates them is their image. Blame NFL Films, Ice Cube and the color black if you want, but this is a tent pole franchise in the NFL. It's just less aparrent right now because they have been sucking. They remind me of the Yankees or Cowboys in the 80s, in the midst of their current stretch of crapitude.

[Coffee Warlord]

There's an NCAA Other pick I'm just stunned nobody has taken.

[britrock88]

Well, you can extort Comey with the info -- he's the only one left to pick in that category.

[britrock88]

Hmm... no sign of Bisbo. He and spleen need to pick NBA teams, but the rest of us could (theoretically) proceed.

[Grover]

I need an NCAA basketball team, ugh.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

ah, i just assume wait. we get good numbers in voting threads on mondays and tuesdays so we'll give him till tomorrow evening.

people can leave their picks with me if they want

[Bisbo]

8.3 Detroit Pistons, NBA

I sent Norv a pm yesterday morning with this pick.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

yep, he did. completely missed it. my bad

[spleen1015]

8.4 Houston Rockets

Thanks for a fun draft guys!!

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

8.5

we skipped brit but that's ok

[britrock88]

8.4 Cincinnati Reds, MLB

The Reds trace their history back to a prior incarnation, the Red Stockings, who became the first professional baseball team in 1869. The Reds have spent the longest time in the same city of any MLB club, this specific club having played in Cincinnati since 1881. They have played in historic parks like Crosley Field and have earned enduring nicknames like The Big Red Machine. They have collected 5 World Series wins, 10 pennants (in 7 different decades), and 10 division titles. Finally, their list of leading players and personalities is long: Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Marty Brennaman, Barry Larkin, Joey Votto... The Reds are a team with a consistent history and a vital place in the history of professional baseball.

[spleen1015]

8.5

we skipped brit but that's ok

Shit. Sorry brit.

[Bobble]

I'm new here. Do the rest of us all vote in the end, is there some rotisserie scoring thing, or do we just verbally crap on WSUCougar's draft?

[Comey]

There's an NCAA Other pick I'm just stunned nobody has taken.

I wish I could figure that out.

[spleen1015]

There's one I was going to take if I didn't get UNC Women's Soccer or Iowa Wrestling and it is still out there.

[WSUCougar]

we just verbally crap on WSUCougar's draft?
That's a given.

[Comey]

I'm not sure if this is who you guys were discussing, but I'm going to go with this:

Penn State Nittany Lions, NCAA Women's Volleyball

(I know I'm picking out of turn, but nobody else has this category to fill but me.)

[Vince, Pt. II]

Huh. The Raiders? Iconic, yes - but for all the wrong reasons. While the team may have at one point had a reputation for greatness and a 'commitment to excellence,' they're far more renowned for losing than for winning. Whether it's the 5 AFC Title Game losses in 7 years, the 'tuck rule' the immaculate reception or Rich Gannon throwing up all over himself, the Raiders are pros at losing the big game. On top of that, their image is awful. Sure, the Raider logo is well known...but this is "prestige" not "infamy." Combine that with moving from Oakland to Los Angeles and back again...no thanks. I don't think that even at their pinnacle the Raiders were anywhere near the Packers, Steelers, Cowboys or 49ers. Who do the Raiders have that was iconic? Al Davis, maybe John Madden (who was more famous for losing big games than winning them) in the front office. On the field you've got who? Kenny Stabler? Marcus Allen? Art Shell? Jack Tatum? Bo Jackson? They're all great players, but would they even make the top ten at their position all time?

I think I may even put the New England Patriots up there in terms of greatest franchises in the NFL. What they have done from the late '90s until now is incredible, and they've done it in the salary cap era where it's difficult to keep a team together. I think if I were ranking the NFL Franchises based upon prestige, it would go something like this:

1. Pittsburgh
2. Dallas
3. San Francisco
4. Green Bay
(large gap)
5. New England
6. New York Giants
7. Chicago
8. Miami
9. Washington
10. Denver

Baltimore gets honorable mention for first team outside the top 10.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

WSUCougar, you can fire when ready. Grover just has college hoops left.

last chance for input on the voting. i'm going with poll lest anyone has objections

[WSUCougar]

8.8 Juventus, soccer

[Vince, Pt. II]

WSUCougar, you can fire when ready. Grover just has college hoops left.

last chance for input on the voting. i'm going with poll lest anyone has objections

I liked the first movie draft poll - enable multi-selection, let people vote for as many teams as they want. Most people will limit it to three, but you don't have to specifically ask that.

[Grover]

Sorry for holding everyone up!

8.6 Louisville, NCAA Basketball

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

good job guys! that's a wrap. i shall have the voting thread up manana in the a.m.

[Big Fo]

I'm not sure if this is who you guys were discussing, but I'm going to go with this:

Penn State Nittany Lions, NCAA Women's Volleyball

(I know I'm picking out of turn, but nobody else has this category to fill but me.)

I don't know if this was the big obvious one either. I thought Cal rugby would have been a good one.

[DanGarion]

On the field you've got who? Kenny Stabler? Marcus Allen? Art Shell? Jack Tatum? Bo Jackson? They're all great players, but would they even make the top ten at their position all time?


Tim Brown...

[britrock88]

I'm not sure if this is who you guys were discussing, but I'm going to go with this:

Penn State Nittany Lions, NCAA Women's Volleyball

(I know I'm picking out of turn, but nobody else has this category to fill but me.)

I like it!

[Vince, Pt. II]

Tim Brown...

I'll reiterate, would he make the top ten at his position all time? I don't think so. He's the poster child for quantity (longevity) over quality. He was never any better than about 4th or 5th best WR in the league while he was around.

[Bisbo]

I don't know if this was the big obvious one either. I thought Cal rugby would have been a good one.

Or Boston College Hockey

[Bisbo]

8.8 Juventus, soccer

Probably would have been a top 3 pick before all the recent shenanigans.

[Coffee Warlord]

Harvard. Rowing.

[Chief Rum]

College baseball anyone?

[ntndeacon]

track?

[larrymcg421]

I looked at college baseball, but who would you pick? There wasn't anyone in there consistently dominating enough. Same with Track & Field, which has had periods of dominance by some teams, but all contained within a few years time span. The reason I like Syracuse in Lacrosse is they've won the most championships (12) and they've done it through multiple eras. Also, Jim Brown played for them.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Harvard. Rowing.

+1

[britrock88]

Shh. What if there's a Round 2? ;)

[Bisbo]

I looked at college baseball, but who would you pick? There wasn't anyone in there consistently dominating enough. Same with Track & Field, which has had periods of dominance by some teams, but all contained within a few years time span. The reason I like Syracuse in Lacrosse is they've won the most championships (12) and they've done it through multiple eras. Also, Jim Brown played for them.

All true, but when I think of lacrosse, I think of Johns Hopkins.