NFL Week 14 thread

[Suburban Rhythm]

Didn't see a new thread yet.

Roger Goodell opens up on letting the Chiefs play, possible rule*changes | Audibles - SI.com (http://nfl.si.com/2012/12/06/roger-goodell-opens-up-on-letting-the-chiefs-play-possible-rule-changes/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp)


The focus on preventing head injuries has been front and center during Goodell’s time as commissioner, and it’s that aim that has driven a bevy of rule changes. The most obvious include putting officials in charge of sending players out of the game if it’s suspected they have suffered concussions and cracking down on high, dangerous hits.
But is there more on the way?


Already in place for next season is a rule that will force all players to wear both thigh and knee pads.

And one of the more prevalent talking points lately has centered on the dangers of kickoffs. Prior to the 2011 season, kickoffs were moved up to the 35-yard-line, drastically decreasing the number of returns attempted. If at least one NFL coach has his way, the league won’t stop there.
According to TIME, Goodell recently discussed with Rick McKay, Falcons president and head of the NFL’s competition committee, a radical rule change proposed by Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano. Instead of a kickoff, the team that scored would then take the ball on its own 30-yard line in, essentially, a 4th-and-15 situation. In other words, they could attempt to keep their offense on the field and try to pick up 15 yards, at the risk of turning the ball over on downs; or they could punt.

“I don’t do things for public relations,” Goodell said. “I do things because they’re the right thing to do, because I love the game.”

However, is there a line where watching out for player safety infringes on the very nature of the game? Limiting kickoff returns is one thing (even that drew groans from fans), but eliminating them completely in favor of an off-the-wall replacement rule? That might change the game dramatically, and not necessarily for the better.

As Goodell pointed out to TIME, kickoffs arguably are the most dangerous plays in football because of the high-speed collisions that occur there. Tweaking the framework to add player safety, then, is smart … but Schiano’s brainchild is pretty off-the-wall.

:confused:

[Passacaglia]

It doesn't seem that off the wall.

[Thomkal]

That's just a bizarre idea-It's not the right thing to do for the game Commish sorry.

[DaddyTorgo]

That's just a bizarre idea-It's not the right thing to do for the game Commish sorry.

MORE OFFENSE!!! WOO!!!!

Schiano is smoking something. He needs to go away.

[gstelmack]

Didn't see a new thread yet.

Roger Goodell opens up on letting the Chiefs play, possible rule*changes | Audibles - SI.com (http://nfl.si.com/2012/12/06/roger-goodell-opens-up-on-letting-the-chiefs-play-possible-rule-changes/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp)


:confused:

That rule change is something that has apparently been discussed before. 4th-and-15 converts as often as an onsides kick, and punts from there average out to where kickoffs would average to. But it gets rid of 20 guys charging at each other full tilt, so is safer.

[molson]

I never thought of the onside kick angle, that does make some sense.

[JPhillips]

Aren't punt returns pretty dangerous also?

[Sun Tzu]

Aren't punt returns pretty dangerous also?

The number of full speed collisions on the average punt return is a mere fraction of the number on a full speed kickoff return.

[JediKooter]

The NFL must really hate Devin Hester.

[britrock88]

Actually, I think it's a great idea.

[Logan]

Schiano came up with this idea when he was still coaching at Rutgers, FYI. It was in response to Eric LeGrand becoming paralyzed on a kickoff return.

[Logan]

BTW, when evaluating this idea, start from the premise of "there ain't no way in hell kickoffs will exist at all in a few years". Then decide if you like this option, or a standard of having all drives start at the 25 automatically.

Status quo (or I should say, status "a couple years ago before they moved kickoffs up") just isn't realistic.

[spleen1015]

I don't care one way or the other. If it makes the game safer and keeps it around then I am all for it.

[miked]

It may actually make the end of games even more exciting. I'd much rather watch a team that scored with 40 seconds left try a 4th 15 play than watching an onside kick that barely works.

[Logan]

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

[stevew]

If you let the death penalty PI calls be reviewable, I could probably get behind a change.

[MIJB#19]

playoff scenarios (afaik)

Houston Texans
clinched playoffs in week 13
clinch home field advantage with
* win vs New England + Baltimore loss + Denver loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
clinch bye week with
* win vs New England + Baltimore loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
* win vs New England + Denver loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
clinch division with
* win vs New England + Indianapolis loss/tie
Houston would clinch hth record with a win over New England, already having beaten Baltimore and Denver


New England Patriots
clinched division in week 13

Denver Broncos
clinched division in week 13

Baltimore Ravens
clinch division with win + Pittsburgh loss + Cincinnati loss
Baltimore would get tie-breakers over Cincinnati (division record) and Pittsburgh (conference record)

Atlanta Falcons
clinched division in week 13
clinch home field advantage with
* win + San Francisco loss + Green Bay loss/tie + Chicago loss/tie
clinch bye week with
* win + San Francisco loss
* win + Green Bay loss/tie + Chicago loss/tie
Atlanta can't clinch tie-breakers over San Francisco, Green Bay or Chicago

[gstelmack]

It may actually make the end of games even more exciting. I'd much rather watch a team that scored with 40 seconds left try a 4th 15 play than watching an onside kick that barely works.

What I'd actually love to see is Bill Belichick deciding to just keep the ball and try the 4th-and-15 every time he scores, and just completely give up on defense altogether. Their odds of stopping someone from the 30 are about the same as their odds of stopping them from anywhere else, and he'll get just enough extra possessions out of the 4th-and-15 tries to make it worth it.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see him just start onsides kicking every kickoff right now.

[stevew]

Whatever keeps Brandon Banks from returning it 8 yards deep and getting out to the 13 is cool by me.

[Passacaglia]

Would be neat to see a punt blocked in that situation, too.

[DaddyTorgo]

What I'd actually love to see is Bill Belichick deciding to just keep the ball and try the 4th-and-15 every time he scores, and just completely give up on defense altogether. Their odds of stopping someone from the 30 are about the same as their odds of stopping them from anywhere else, and he'll get just enough extra possessions out of the 4th-and-15 tries to make it worth it.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see him just start onsides kicking every kickoff right now.

Interesting.

[Logan]

The guys who are always going on and on about the NFL becoming a touch football league, the new rules are taking away what makes the game great, etc...shouldn't they be for this change? Currently, you score a TD/FG and you immediately just give the ball to the opposing team 95% of the time. Seriously, you just hand it to them! "Okay, now you can score!" Under this method, it leaves the opportunity to say, "You want to score? Well you gotta stop me first bitch!"

It's a much more manly approach when you think about it.

[DaddyTorgo]

The guys who are always going on and on about the NFL becoming a touch football league, the new rules are taking away what makes the game great, etc...shouldn't they be for this change? Currently, you score a TD/FG and you immediately just give the ball to the opposing team 95% of the time. Seriously, you just hand it to them! "Okay, now you can score!" Under this method, it leaves the opportunity to say, "You want to score? Well you gotta stop me first bitch!"

It's a much more manly approach when you think about it.

Very true.

[Passacaglia]

That makes sense...hey, maybe they could play "make it, take it"

[Honolulu_Blue]

I kind of like the idea. I'm all for it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

[Suburban Rhythm]

DOLA

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6nVuMorlOWc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JediKooter]

They should handle kickoffs like we did when we were kids...after a touchdown, you throw a hail mary pass to the other team.

[Logan]

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

This is from one of the early articles on this last year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/06/07/abolishing-kickoffs/index.html

But listen to Schiano for a minute. Hear his reasons for wanting to eliminate one of the most dangerous plays in his sport. Then think hard about his alternative. Teams can punt from the 30-yard line to open halves and after scoring, or, if they want to maintain possession, they could opt to run a fourth-and-15 play from the 30.


I read that as they could go for the 4th and 15 play to open a game, just like a team can go for an onsides kick to start a game now.

[Passacaglia]

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

It's not like they can demand that the coin toss loser must not do an onsides kick to open a half.

[Solecismic]

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

I would imagine this includes fake punts, if it's true. It seems very high. About double the conversion rate for 3rd-and-15.

[sabotai]

The XFL Scramble

Didn't the XFL stop the scramble because players got injured doing that?

EDIT: Can't find if they did, but according to wikipedia, the XFL's first injury was a player who separated his shoulder on the season opening game during the scramble.

[Suburban Rhythm]

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

Take out the Chargers, what's the conversion rate now?

[albionmoonlight]

Take out the Chargers, what's the conversion rate now?

They should handle kickoffs like we did when we were kids...after a touchdown, you throw a hail mary pass to the other team.

Lots of win in this thread so far.

[stevew]

If the 4th and 15 formation is treated as a "punt formation" and this 1997 rule is in place

"Punts and Fake Punts -- when a team fakes a punt and throws the ball downfield, pass interference calls on the two outside defenders who are actually trying to block a coverage man from getting downfield -- and might not even know the ball has been thrown -- have been eliminated."

I'm a much bigger fan of the change.

I'm actually not opposed to eliminating traditional kickoffs, perhaps with the exception of the start of each half. Allow the team to punt or to go for it.

[sabotai]

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

Did my own quick look through. I included all plays that were 4th and 10 up to 4th and 20.

2001-2004
321 plays
95 successes
29.59% success

Of those, 18 were punt or FG fakes, which only succeeded 2 times.

If I take out 4th and 10 up to 4th and 14, and just look at 4th and 15 up to 4th and 20.
85 plays
19 successes
22.35%

[stevew]

I wonder if a play is good for like exactly 15 yards on a 4th and 15 or if it's one of those things where it would also be good for 4th and 25 as easily.

[JediKooter]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/dec/06/smith-will-join-turner-out-door-end-chargers-seaso/)

[BillJasper]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/dec/06/smith-will-join-turner-out-door-end-chargers-seaso/)

Congratulations!

But you know that now the Chargers will go on a winning streak that'll make ownership reevaluate the situation. :lol:

[RainMaker]

I actually kind of like the idea. On the other hand, how about Goodell start by eliminating Thursday Night games that are dangerous and unhealthy to teams?

[JediKooter]

Congratulations!

But you know that now the Chargers will go on a winning streak that'll make ownership reevaluate the situation. :lol:

Thank you. :)

It's funny you say that as I was just texting with one of my friends that is from San Diego and is up here in the Bay Area and we both said the same thing. Though it sounds for realz this time even if they do win out or go on a little streak.

[Dutch]

I actually kind of like the idea. On the other hand, how about Goodell start by eliminating Thursday Night games that are dangerous and unhealthy to teams?

+1 on both counts. Not that I know if THU night games are particularly dangerous...just that I always forget about it and fuck up my FF team options.

[Dutch]

On the "Josh Freeman Show" tonight (just a local sports talk guy who gets to bring in Bucs players for interviews each week) a caller asked Josh what his opinion of the "Victory Formation Rush" was and the announcer tried to switch the topic.



Radio Host: Don't answer that...we are not going to get into that
discussion. (He thinks it's a bad call and that even the Bucs players
don't like it)

Josh Freeman: Wait...

Radio Host: ....or, answer if you want...

Josh Freeman: Yeah...Coach Schiano tells us that the game is 60 minutes
long and we are supposed to fight for every second. So when I'm on the
sidelines and I see that...sure...I'm hoping for a fumbled snap...I want
the ball back for one more shot to get it to Vincent (Jackson) or Mike
(Williams). The other team knows its coming, or at least, I would
think they know it's coming, so maybe the center rushes the snap or they force a bad exchange. Honestly, I like it.

Radio Host: Well, one of these days, somebody is going to drop back and
fire a cheap-shot touchdown pass...but lets move on.


(Which to me, opens up for all sorts of possibilities, all of which would favor the defense.)

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/dec/06/smith-will-join-turner-out-door-end-chargers-seaso/)
it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

[Sun Tzu]

it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

Andy Reid *did* just finish having a nice house built in San Diego county.

:)

No, really...he did.

[Buccaneer]

I like the kickoff idea and the thought that Bellichek would score on the first drive and then make 15 yds every single time and therefore, their opponent would never, ever get an offensive play off. :lol:

Great news about the Bolts - it's about frickin' time. I was pissed at Norv and AJ Smith for years until I had enough and switched over to the Broncos this season (along with the Pats, of course).

[Dutch]

If Andy Reid can re-capture the magic that happened when he rebuilt the Eagles...fuck yes, take him...but on the other hand, he's reminding me a like of Mike Holmgren.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

doesn't matter who the coach is if they don't get a competent gm. aj smith's given them zilch post schottenheimer

[JediKooter]

it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. I have to admit, I don't know if the problems in Philly are because of him or his players are only really good on paper. The Eagles have had some injuries this year though.

[Matthean]

Considering Simmons brought up a point about coaches after the age of 55, I wouldn't expect him to turn things around. I think he's tapped.

[bulletsponge]

so.. who still thinks that Carson Palmer trade was a good idea?

[Matthean]

so.. who still thinks that Carson Palmer trade was a good idea?

You mean besides the Bengals?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

so.. who still thinks that Carson Palmer trade was a good idea?
terrell pryor?

[Julio Riddols]

I love the Palmer trade.

[Wolfpack]

When I first saw Schiano's 4th-and-15 idea, I thought up a variant of my own. Instead of a 4th down at the kicking team's 30, the receiving team would get the ball at their own 15 with no down or distance to meet with all other rules still in effect and run a scrimmage play. The receiving team thus gets a free play to start the drive. Once the free play is over, then the drive continues with a normal 1st-and-10 from wherever the free play ended. To introduce a little decision-making, the receiving team can either take the free play from the 15 or instead go ahead and take the ball at the 20 and start with 1st-and-10. Teams leading in fourth quarters of games would probably opt to take the free down in order to use up clock while trailing teams face a risk/reward of either saving seconds and losing a possible big play or using up clock for a play that might get them less than five yards.

To replace onside kicks in this variant, the kicking team can opt to instead give the ball to the receiving team and the receiving team must convert a 4th-and-1 play to retain the ball. So that there can be no dispute about what the line to reach is, the receiving team gets the ball at their own 49 in order to advance it to or past midfield. To make use realistic, the kicking team can only use this option once outside of the last five minutes of the game. Inside of the last five minutes, only the trailing team can use the option, but they can use it anytime.

[Grover]

I love the Palmer trade.

+1 million

[Fidatelo]

In the CFL kicks include the "No Yards" rule, whereby opponents can't be within 5 yards of the man who picks up the ball or they get flagged. The idea is it encourages returns, but I wonder if it also makes them safer? I say that because it seems that the gunners and other defenders often have to slow up so they don't get inside that 5 yard area, so I wonder if the entire play becomes a bit safer.

I honestly don't know, but if it does maybe the NFL could go that route? The other positive is that it eliminates fair catches, which are boring.

[Jacob Typer]

i like the idea.

[DaddyTorgo]

Tom & Gisele had their baby on Wednesday (little girl). Yet Brady was still at practice on Weds & Thurs, and didn't even mention it to the media. Think this guy isn't focused & hungry still?

[spleen1015]

Tom & Gisele had their baby on Wednesday (little girl). Yet Brady was still at practice on Weds & Thurs, and didn't even mention it to the media. Think this guy isn't focused & hungry still?

I think he just wants to keep his personal life as private as he can. There's no doubt he still wants to win though.

[Passacaglia]

When I first saw Schiano's 4th-and-15 idea, I thought up a variant of my own. Instead of a 4th down at the kicking team's 30, the receiving team would get the ball at their own 15 with no down or distance to meet with all other rules still in effect and run a scrimmage play. The receiving team thus gets a free play to start the drive. Once the free play is over, then the drive continues with a normal 1st-and-10 from wherever the free play ended. To introduce a little decision-making, the receiving team can either take the free play from the 15 or instead go ahead and take the ball at the 20 and start with 1st-and-10. Teams leading in fourth quarters of games would probably opt to take the free down in order to use up clock while trailing teams face a risk/reward of either saving seconds and losing a possible big play or using up clock for a play that might get them less than five yards.

To replace onside kicks in this variant, the kicking team can opt to instead give the ball to the receiving team and the receiving team must convert a 4th-and-1 play to retain the ball. So that there can be no dispute about what the line to reach is, the receiving team gets the ball at their own 49 in order to advance it to or past midfield. To make use realistic, the kicking team can only use this option once outside of the last five minutes of the game. Inside of the last five minutes, only the trailing team can use the option, but they can use it anytime.

What's the advantage of this variation? It just seems like taking Schiano's idea and making it needlessly complex.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think he just wants to keep his personal life as private as he can. There's no doubt he still wants to win though.

Oh I have no doubt he wants to keep his personal life private. I totally support that, and frankly I think most people around here have been great about giving him the space to do that and not hounding him.

I just thought that showed a ton of dedication to be at practice on Weds & Thurs given that.

Surprisingly, it's the same for a lot of athletes around here (perhaps more than you expect given the reputation of our media).

[Passacaglia]

Tom & Gisele had their baby on Wednesday (little girl). Yet Brady was still at practice on Weds & Thurs, and didn't even mention it to the media. Think this guy isn't focused & hungry still?

That's a weird way to put it. I thought the media asks the questions. Did they ask him about it, and he didn't comment on it? Is the expectation that he would tell some reporter about it out of the blue?

[DaddyTorgo]

That's a weird way to put it. I thought the media asks the questions. Did they ask him about it, and he didn't comment on it? Is the expectation that he would tell some reporter about it out of the blue?

I imagine somebody probably asked him about it - they were saying during last week's game that it was due any day. I don't know - I haven't read the transcripts or anything

Anyways - not so much focused on his privacy, which I'm totally all for.

Just more thought it was pretty intense that she apparently had the kid at some point on Weds and he was at practice on Weds & Thurs.

[sabotai]

Eagles Concerned By Nick Foles Asking About Best Ways To Tear ACL | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/eagles-concerned-by-nick-foles-asking-about-best-w,30646/)

[miami_fan]

I imagine somebody probably asked him about it - they were saying during last week's game that it was due any day. I don't know - I haven't read the transcripts or anything

Anyways - not so much focused on his privacy, which I'm totally all for.

Just more thought it was pretty intense that she apparently had the kid at some point on Weds and he was at practice on Weds & Thurs.

Eh some may take an opposite view but to each his own.

[BillJasper]

Considering Simmons brought up a point about coaches after the age of 55, I wouldn't expect him to turn things around. I think he's tapped.

Didn't Coughlin win two Super Bowls after 55?

[Matthean]

Considering he is 66, I would say yes. Even Belichick went to the SB at 59. Shanahan is 60 and you know he's sticking around. I can't remember the specifics about the article, but I do think it does get much harder for coaches as they get older. My Dad is 67 and he forgets stuff at a decent rate.

[Danny]

It makes sense that on average, it will be much more difficult for coaches as they get older, but there are individual differences and exceptions. There are people who are still sharp in their 60's and 70's, it's just not what is typical.

[stevew]

The NFL is leaving a considerable amount of money on the table by not realigning and reclassifying teams in different divisions in order to create more frequent popular match ups. For example, the Steelers and Cowboys play 1 time every 4 years. In the same time, the Steelers play the Bengals 8 times. The Packers and, say, the Pats are the same way.

Then even if you have two really good teams in the same conference, they can play one time per year at the maximum(example Colts/Pats of the last 10 years).

All I'm saying is that the type of matchups that we want to see more often could easily be created. The amount of money generated by these type of games would probably outweigh any cons. The teams that draw ratings should face each other on TV a lot more often than they do and this package has to be worth even more than the existing ones.

[EagleFan]

I think the alignment is fine the way it is. Cowboys/Giants/Eagle/Redskins combine for much more of any kind of rivalry games than Cowboys/Steelers would, it's not the 70's. Packers/Pats? That's not even a rivalry?

There are only 16 games. You're not going to have the top teams playing each other constantly each season. It is what it is. Plus, top teams change season after season. Especially with free agency where teams can go from basement dweller to contender in one season (or the other way around).

[stevew]

http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/harbaughsavedbythebell.jpg?w=320

If Jim Harbaugh is Screech's cousin, that also means that John Harbaugh is as well.

[BishopMVP]

What I'd actually love to see is Bill Belichick deciding to just keep the ball and try the 4th-and-15 every time he scores, and just completely give up on defense altogether. Their odds of stopping someone from the 30 are about the same as their odds of stopping them from anywhere else, and he'll get just enough extra possessions out of the 4th-and-15 tries to make it worth it.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see him just start onsides kicking every kickoff right now.This year? When we have a legit front 7 and (possibly) a competent secondary (after we traded for Talib and Dennard stepped up)? (2-3 years ago, absolutely would have agreed with you.)I imagine somebody probably asked him about it - they were saying during last week's game that it was due any day. I don't know - I haven't read the transcripts or anything

Anyways - not so much focused on his privacy, which I'm totally all for.

Just more thought it was pretty intense that she apparently had the kid at some point on Weds and he was at practice on Weds & Thurs.Maybe he just hates his kids. (Or more likely what goes on inside the lines has very little to do with what happens in a players personal life.)

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe he just hates his kids. (Or more likely what goes on inside the lines has very little to do with what happens in a players personal life.)

Wasn't a criticism at all, just an observation that he's hungry.

[Desnudo]

:rant: I think the alignment is fine the way it is. Cowboys/Giants/Eagle/Redskins combine for much more of any kind of rivalry games than Cowboys/Steelers would, it's not the 70's. Packers/Pats? That's not even a rivalry?

There are only 16 games. You're not going to have the top teams playing each other constantly each season. It is what it is. Plus, top teams change season after season. Especially with free agency where teams can go from basement dweller to contender in one season (or the other way around).

The current scheduling process matches the top conference teams up pretty well year after year. Like the pats play the ravens, steelers, colts, broncos a lot year after year

[EagleFan]

:rant:

The current scheduling process matches the top conference teams up pretty well year after year. Like the pats play the ravens, steelers, colts, broncos a lot year after year

Why are you ranting at me? I think we agree if I am reading you right.

[MIJB#19]

Why are you ranting at me? I think we agree if I am reading you right.Perhaps he's ranting with you?

[molson]

I like how there's three kinds of NFL rivalries - the every-year division rivalries, the conference rivalries that can turn into twice-a-year rivalries when teams are finishing in first place and facing each other in the playoffs year after year (like Colts/Pats), and the intraconference rivalries that are rarer events but have the potential to culminate in a super bowl (Cowboys/Steelers, and more recently, Pats/Giants). I'd change a lot about the schedule/alignment in every other sport, but not football, I think its perfect.

[Desnudo]

Why are you ranting at me? I think we agree if I am reading you right.

what the hell is that thing. :banghead:

[mckerney]

Looking forward for this season being over so the Vikings can start next years Suck For Johnny Football campaign.

[EagleFan]

That rule change is something that has apparently been discussed before. 4th-and-15 converts as often as an onsides kick, and punts from there average out to where kickoffs would average to. But it gets rid of 20 guys charging at each other full tilt, so is safer.

This is now 4th and 15 against a defense that is in theory tired now from having a scoring drive against them instead of a special teams group out there for one play. I would think that would increase the percentage some.

How many major injuries have there been on kickoffs?

How many receivers get hurt on crossing patterns? Maybe they should outlaw that play.

Quarterbacks are getting hurt when sacked, maybe we should just give them a flag to wear and the defenders pull that instead of tackling.

Blitzing really opens up potential injury with too many defenders to block, maybe that should be outlawed.

Exactly where will it end?

[EagleFan]

Looking forward for this season being over so the Vikings can start next years Suck For Johnny Football campaign.

As much as I enjoy watching the Texas A&M games because of his play I don't really see his game translating to the pros for some reason. Hopefully I'm wrong but I am seeing Tebow part 2.

[mckerney]

As much as I enjoy watching the Texas A&M games because of his play I don't really see his game translating to the pros for some reason. Hopefully I'm wrong but I am seeing Tebow part 2.

After watching Christian Ponder for two years I'm willing to settle for anyone who can throw the ball 5 yards. :(

[EagleFan]

After watching Christian Ponder for two years I'm willing to settle for anyone who can throw the ball 5 yards. :(

Good point. ;)

Don't get me wrong, would love to see him do well as a pro if he can be as exciting to watch.

[gstelmack]

How many major injuries have there been on kickoffs?

How many players have been paralyzed on non-kickoff plays over the last 2 or 3 decards?

How many receivers get hurt on crossing patterns? Maybe they should outlaw that play.

Or make it illegal to hit a defenseless receiver, as they are doing.

Quarterbacks are getting hurt when sacked, maybe we should just give them a flag to wear and the defenders pull that instead of tackling.

Or make it illegal to hit them below the waist so they don't tear up their knee when hit with the foot planted for the throw, or cold-cock them in the head with your helmet, as they are doing.

[BillJasper]

This is now 4th and 15 against a defense that is in theory tired now from having a scoring drive against them instead of a special teams group out there for one play. I would think that would increase the percentage some.

How many major injuries have there been on kickoffs?

How many receivers get hurt on crossing patterns? Maybe they should outlaw that play.

Quarterbacks are getting hurt when sacked, maybe we should just give them a flag to wear and the defenders pull that instead of tackling.

Blitzing really opens up potential injury with too many defenders to block, maybe that should be outlawed.

Exactly where will it end?

This is where I'm pretty much at. Football is a fast and violent game, where players have to make decisions in a split-second. I don't think you can legislate the speed and instinct out of the game.

As far as defenseless receivers go, I've see way too many flags thrown where a defender is coming in low and draws a flag because the receiver put his head down. These are flags that are going to have to start going both ways or your essentially giving offenses fifteen free yards whenever they need it.

[Lathum]

Headed down to the bengals game, hope to see a thorough thrashing of the cowgirls.

[EagleFan]

This is where I'm pretty much at. Football is a fast and violent game, where players have to make decisions in a split-second. I don't think you can legislate the speed and instinct out of the game.

As far as defenseless receivers go, I've see way too many flags thrown where a defender is coming in low and draws a flag because the receiver put his head down. These are flags that are going to have to start going both ways or your essentially giving offenses fifteen free yards whenever they need it.

Completely agree. It's a violent game, players know that going in.

The biggest problem is that players are going for the knockout blow far too often instead of the tackle as they want to end up making the highlight shows.

[EagleFan]

Headed down to the bengals game, hope to see a thorough thrashing of the cowgirls.

I hope you get your wish.

[stevew]

Headed down to the bengals game, hope to see a thorough thrashing of the cowgirls.

Must be awesome you can walk up and get tickets whenever you want.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

jets/jags or rams/bills. good times here in upstate ny

[Jas_lov]

The Vikings have learned from last week and aren't throwing it on 1st down in the redzone anymore. Just keep giving it to AP. Cutler isn't as good as Rodgers to overcome AP's dominance.

[Matthean]

I know Urlacher is out, but Bears have given up a quick 14 points to team that doesn't have a QB.

[kingfc22]

How is that roughing the passer in the BAL/WAS game?

Ngata hit RG3 right in the chest!

[Shkspr]

I swear to god, if RG3 takes more hits like that staying behind the LOS and passing, he's going to get hurt. The Redskins need to run him downfield more.

[General Mike]

whoever is announcing this Jets game(PBP) is terrible.

[mckerney]

The Vikings should just give up on passing all together. Ponder was lucky to have a play whistled dead before he fumbled the ball while trying to flip it away after he walked into a sack. AP already has 75 yards and 2 TDs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just looked it up out of curiosity ... as of kickoff today, the Falcons have played only one team (Den) with a winning record. They've played only 3 that are .500. I knew the schedule had been soft but damn.

[tucker rocky]

whoever is announcing this Jets game(PBP) is terrible.

Kevin Harlan.

Also, Sanchez is sacked, fumbles the ball away.

[mckerney]

Just looked it up out of curiosity ... as of kickoff today, the Falcons have played only one team (Den) with a winning record. They've played only 3 that are .500. I knew the schedule had been soft but damn.

The winning percentage of the Falcon's opponents is .396.

[mckerney]

12 carries for 104 yards in the first quarter for AP.

[mckerney]

STOP CALLING PASS PLAYS.

[cuervo72]

I hope you get your wish.

+1.

Bengals look good in the orange, imo.

Redskins O so far, geez.

[tucker rocky]

Falcons being shutout against Carolina??

I see Gus Johnson is doing PBP in this game, good times.

[cuervo72]

Nice pass by Flacco.

[General Mike]

How could anyone be a Jets fan?

[tucker rocky]

Jets making turnovers a trend.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I see Gus Johnson is doing PBP in this game, good times.

My FB wall lit up with "who is this clown" type posts before the first quarter ended.

[General Mike]

Jets are making Chad Henne look good.

[Desnudo]

Did the jets really fumble have it reversed then fumble again? Watching game cast

[General Mike]

My FB wall lit up with "who is this clown" type posts before the first quarter ended.

Where;s the Like button. :)

[General Mike]

Did the jets really fumble have it reversed then fumble again? Watching game cast

Don't think so, but switched to the fox game for a minute.

[JPhillips]

What a catch by Gresham.

[BillJasper]

Norv working his late season magic! :lol:

[mckerney]

Vikings should be blowing out the Bears, instead they're up 14-7 at the half. They'd be a scary team if they had even an average QB.

[tucker rocky]

Falcons asleep at the wheel, down 23-0.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Newton did a pretty solid early-career-Vick imitation and torched the D. Sweet little play.

[JPhillips]

Good to see Claiborne up. That sandwich on his head looked awful.

[tucker rocky]

Good to see Claiborne up. That sandwich on his head looked awful.

Was it a ham and swiss sandwich on his head?

[mauchow]

Ponder is most excellent!

......

Time for All Day.

[tucker rocky]

SD sitting on 13 points again, letdown has to be upcoming.

[mauchow]

Boom, pick six for the Vikes.. man, this really blows how this season has gone.

[JPhillips]

Josh Brown is having a great tryout for a full time kicking job.

[mauchow]

Next week's monday night game --- Tennessee and the Jets.. wow.

[BillJasper]

Carolina trying to give the game away.

[BillJasper]

Next week's monday night game --- Tennessee and the Jets.. wow.

ESPN really getting their money's worth! :lol:

[lungs]

Wow, I'm a Cowboys fan but how is that a penalty against the Bengals?

[JPhillips]

Wow. Absolutely no head contact on that 15 yd penalty by Nelson on Dez Bryant.

[bulletsponge]

who the fuck throws a lateral in their own endzone?

[Lathum]

Wow. Absolutely no head contact on that 15 yd penalty by Nelson on Dez Bryant.

In in the stadium and people are going nuts. Terrible call.

[JPhillips]

Bring back Batch!

[JPhillips]

In in the stadium and people are going nuts. Terrible call.

I'm very much in favor of stopping hits to the head, but if you can't hit a WR like that you just have to let them have those kinds of catches.

[bhlloy]

In in the stadium and people are going nuts. Terrible call.

I have no idea how you play defense any more. Other than just letting the receiver catch it and then tackle him.

[stevew]

Too many 1pm games and not enough late ones

[stevew]

Norv's team doing norv type stuff.

[Jas_lov]

And that'll do it. Bears 2 division losses to the Packers 0. Beat the Lions tonight and next week's game at Chicago isn't a must win, although it would be the clincher if the Packers do win it.

[kingfc22]

RG3 gutting through this drive

[kingfc22]

RG3 gutting through this drive

And now back off as he clearly is hurting

[BillJasper]

RG3 gutting through this drive

Wonder if they finally broke him?

[kingfc22]

Wonder if they finally broke him?

I didn't see how he got hurt. Scrambling with no slide?

[BillJasper]

How do you leave Garçon that wide open? :lol:

[Shkspr]

I didn't see how he got hurt. Scrambling with no slide?

Ngota decided instead of tackling properly, he'd just hurtle himself at the guy and see if he could break anything.

[Matthean]

Wonder if they finally broke him?

Not sure how great his career is, but he looks skinny as hell so I'm not sure how he'll hold up over time.

[BillJasper]

I hate when coaches don't play the game to win.

[bulletsponge]

rg3 injured. skins fans should get used to it now and accept it. ill bet he never plays a full season

[JPhillips]

Looks like the Bengals are going to blow it.

Too many penalties.
Too many dropped passes.
Too many dropped interceptions.
Too many FGs instead of TDs in the red zone.

[rowech]

Make it three horrible losses on the season for the Bengals. Have to hope next season they win these games.

[Lathum]

C'mon Baltimore. Really need a skins loss.

[mckerney]

77 yards passing for the Vikings today, would be great if Ponder it's finally benched next week.

[BillJasper]

rg3 injured. skins fans should get used to it now and accept it. ill bet he never plays a full season

The way he plays the position combined with his size, I tend to agree.

[General Mike]

goddamn Cowboys

[cartman]

Glad that Lathum got to see a clutch QB performance in person.

[BillJasper]

Joe Flacco: ELITE QB!!!

[Coffee Warlord]

Missed the 4th - what happened to Cutler?

[tucker rocky]

Norv Turner trying hard to save his job.

[kingfc22]

Nick Foles gets the Eagles down to the 2...2 seconds left...

[kingfc22]

3 NFC East teams just pulled rabbits out of their asses.

[BillJasper]

He may have been out...

[sabotai]

PHI-TB game, looks extremely close but looks good to me.

[MrBug708]

Kai Forbath has been money for the Skins

[Lathum]

Talk about the air going out of a stadium.

[BillJasper]

Why the need to kick an extra point with zeros on the clock? Seems like that could be eliminated what with safety being the leagues prime concern these days.

[Logan]

Why the need to kick an extra point with zeros on the clock? Seems like that could be eliminated what with safety being the leagues prime concern these days.

Because the game isn't over yet. Extra points are untimed plays.

Oh, and gambling.

[larrymcg421]

Why would the team even kick it? Why not just line up in victory formation like you're going for two and take a knee?

[BillJasper]

Because the game isn't over yet. Extra points are untimed plays.

Oh, and gambling.

In the pro game the defense can't score off of the XP, can they?

Gambling seems to be the most likely culprit...

[tucker rocky]

All Eagles had to do was snap the ball, and cover up, instead of actually kicking it.

[tucker rocky]

It's a moot point, now that the game is over.

[kingfc22]

Aldon Smith is a beast!

[RendeR]

Glad that Lathum got to see a clutch QB performance in person.


Nothing clutch about that performance, he tried to give it away, we simply failed to accept the gift. Romo was a failure in this game.

[RendeR]

What a wasted opportunity. Steelers and ravens both go down, we could be in control of our fate going down the stretch.

Only saving grace is that we're exactly where we were now as when the day started. Only 3 games left to do something about it.

[tucker rocky]

Eli picked 6'ed, Giants return KO for TD.

[Lathum]

Been waiting all season for Wilson to do that.

[cartman]

Nothing clutch about that performance, he tried to give it away, we simply failed to accept the gift. Romo was a failure in this game.

I guess leading a fourth quarter comeback and game-winning drive is now a mark of failure.

[BillJasper]

I guess leading a fourth quarter comeback and game-winning drive is now a mark of failure.

If you put your team in that position, why should people be applauding when you barely dig them back out? If Cincinnati isn't utterly incompetent on offense, the Cowboys wouldn't have been in a position for Romo to bring them back.

[cougarfreak]

Jesus the Bengals gave that fucking game away today.

[cartman]

If you put your team in that position, why should people be applauding when you barely dig them back out? If Cincinnati isn't utterly incompetent on offense, the Cowboys wouldn't have been in a position for Romo to bring them back.

But he did bring them back, hence the puzzlement at calling that a failure.

[BillJasper]

But he did bring them back, hence the puzzlement at calling that a failure.

That's not a failure (though the first three quarters were), but I think Romo as a QB overall is.

[cartman]

That's not a failure (though the first three quarters were), but I think Romo as a QB overall is.

But isn't that what people (looking at you Lathum, regarding Eli) say when they claim a player is "clutch". They might play bad for most of the game, but step it up when it counts and get the win. Romo has now moved past Roger "Captain Comeback" Staubach on the Cowboys' 4th quarter comeback list and into a tie with Aikman.

I'm convinced that the Cowboys would be 3-10 right now if Romo wasn't the QB.

[kingfc22]

The Kaepernick experiment has not been getting the job done lately.

[EagleFan]

But isn't that what people (looking at you Lathum, regarding Eli) say when they claim a player is "clutch". They might play bad for most of the game, but step it up when it counts and get the win. Romo has now moved past Roger "Captain Comeback" Staubach on the Cowboys' 4th quarter comeback list and into a tie with Aikman.

I'm convinced that the Cowboys would be 3-10 right now if Romo wasn't the QB.

Call us when he wins in January...

He's the 3rd best QB in the NFC East.

[Glengoyne]

I don't understand how that wasn't roughing. Eli was tackled well after he threw the ball.

[larrymcg421]

The only thing that matters is winning, except when Romo wins, then it's about how well he played in the win.

[EagleFan]

The only thing that matters is winning, except when Romo wins, then it's about how well he played in the win.

Call us when he wins in January...

[cartman]

Call us when he wins in January...

You don't have a reason to pick up the phone after week 17.

[Thomkal]

:::sighs at his beloved and awful Cards as Skelton turns it over again:::

[EagleFan]

The Saints may ask if they can try that 4th and 15 thing this game...

[EagleFan]

You don't have a reason to pick up the phone after week 17.

I'll give it a B for effort and a D- for content. Nice try though.

[JPhillips]

Jesus the Bengals gave that fucking game away today.

Every time I think they have something going on, they prove they're the same old Bengals.

[BillJasper]

I hate being a Dolphins fan!

[tucker rocky]

Everything going the right way for Seattle.
Matt Flynn might actually get to play.
Anyone remember him?

[cartman]

I'll give it a B for effort and a D- for content. Nice try though.

Kinda like the Eagles season then.

[General Mike]

F U Joe Buck

[kingfc22]

I hate being a Dolphins fan!

Special teams play today has been beautiful. ;)

It would be nice if the Niners would convert a flippin 3rd down.

[mckerney]

Everything going the right way for Seattle.
Matt Flynn might actually get to play.
Anyone remember him?

If they're not going to use Flynn can we have him?

[General Mike]

HIXON~!

[bulletsponge]

But he did bring them back, hence the puzzlement at calling that a failure.

Romo had 1 TD drive that game. the defense set him up perfectly for 1. he and the boys offense played like shit

[JPhillips]

Romo's receivers played even worse than Dalton's.

[tucker rocky]

If they're not going to use Flynn can we have him?

I guess Seattle will hold onto him, just in case Wilson has a sophomore swoon, come next season.

[tucker rocky]

Seattle not even at HT, yet SF more than halfway through the 3rd.

[mauchow]

The game started at 3:25..

[Buccaneer]

6 for 12, 143 yds, 1 td, 1 int and yet the team is up 38-0?!?

[stevew]

When in doubt, "all he does is win" usually works for underperforming lucky ass qbs.

[Matthean]

When in doubt, "all he does is win" usually works for underperforming lucky ass qbs.

Or QBs on teams that are winning regardless. It's like a college QB being up for the Heisman based on this winning record.

[kingfc22]

Cards are BRUTAL

[tucker rocky]

Miami hanging in, with that TD grab by Fasano.

[Logan]

Miami hanging in, with that TD grab by Fasano.

Pretty ridiculous catch.

[jbergey22]

Eli setting this game up so he can make a "clutch" game winning drive!

[kingfc22]

These roughing the passer penalties are getting out of control.

[General Mike]

worst kickoff coverage i've ever seen in one game

[larrymcg421]

Tannehill has played well today considering the Miami OL (especially Martin) has been shit.

[kingfc22]

Finally can breathe a bit deeper now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Perhaps this covers the whole SEA-ARI thing
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1854187/seahawksRULE.gif

[tucker rocky]

Simply deplorable Pete Carroll, instead of running the ball, lets take a shot at the endzone on 4th and 23, up 51-0.

[jbergey22]

Simply deplorable Pete Carroll, instead of running the ball, lets take a shot at the endzone on 4th and 23, up 51-0.

And why is it Pete Caroll's job to stop his team? If the Cards cant stop them they deserve to be embarrassed like this. They are professional athletes getting paid to try and stop the other team.

As if it really matters if you lose 54-0, 58-0- or 51-0 anyway. They came in and just stunk it up any way you look at the final score.

[mauchow]

May as well let Flynn get some work.

[Thomkal]

:::sighs at his awful and beloved Cards:::

Cards defense has been just about the only thing keeping them in games since Kolb got hurt, not surprised they get blown out when the defense finally breaks down too. Have to think the coaching staff and probably GM are gone especially if they go 4-12 after starting 4-0.

[Lathum]

Saints defense is bad, special teams worse

[tucker rocky]

And why is it Pete Caroll's job to stop his team? If the Cards cant stop them they deserve to be embarrassed like this. They are professional athletes getting paid to try and stop the other team.

As if it really matters if you lose 54-0, 58-0- or 51-0 anyway. They came in and just stunk it up any way you look at the final score.

Carroll only ran that play to appease the home crowd, doubt he would've did that, if this game was in Arizona.

[B & B]

me thinks the wittle wions keep this one .... close and maybe pull off a 20 year curse stunner

[tucker rocky]

Excellent weather for football.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Desnudo]

When in doubt, "all he does is win" usually works for underperforming lucky ass qbs.

Or "the other QB had 4 INTs and an 18.2 rating" works

[Scoobz0202]

Excellent weather for football.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/icons/icon14.gif

Not enough snow for my liking

edit: well, no snow. Need snow. lots of it

[SackAttack]

Not enough snow for my liking

edit: well, no snow. Need snow. lots of it

Been snowing here all day. It's just a smidge above freezing, so especially down on the field, it's not sticking.

It is outside my apartment window, but different conditions there than at Lambeau.

[MrBug708]

I played Cam Newton, Marshawn Lynch, and Seattle's D in fantasy football

Only 90 points down right now and I have three players going still

[mauchow]

Ah, stupid luck again for the Packers. Last week the luck was going against Ponder.

[B & B]

instead of finding a WAY to lose this week, detroit


Find a way to win

[stevew]

Peterson is at 1600 yards with 3 games left. Hopefully he can do it.

[kingfc22]

And why is it Pete Caroll's job to stop his team? If the Cards cant stop them they deserve to be embarrassed like this. They are professional athletes getting paid to try and stop the other team.

As if it really matters if you lose 54-0, 58-0- or 51-0 anyway. They came in and just stunk it up any way you look at the final score.

And this coming from the coach who was butt hurt when Harbaugh rolled up the score at Stanford vs. USC...

[Sun Tzu]

What's your deal?

[MrBug708]

Being a colossal tool has never been a problem for Carroll

[kingfc22]

How was that not roughing the passer? Of all the ticky tack roughing the passer calls on a weekly basis and they miss a blatant one?

[EagleFan]

How wasn't that pass interference on the 3rd down play?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

All you people of little faith... The Lions once again prove that they CAN find ways to lose games!

[bulletsponge]

All you people of little faith... The Lions once again prove that they CAN find ways to lose games!

huh? the last 50 years the Lions have been proving it. theres more proof the Lions know how to lose than theres proof the earth is round

[Matthean]

I find it odd that the last time the Lions won in GB was when I was a freshman in college.

[B & B]

37 minutes of possession, 12 more first downs, 100 more total yards......


most impressive loss

[Logan]

I'm going to be very happy if/when Aldon Smith breaks the Strahan/Favre bullshit sack record.

[tucker rocky]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000108760/article/cam-cameron-fired-by-ravens-jim-caldwell-to-step-in

[Passacaglia]

Awesome. Has he ever done anything good?

[Logan]

Awesome. Has he ever done anything good?

Made Ted Ginn and the Ginn family a lot of money.

[JAG]

I'm going to be very happy if/when Aldon Smith breaks the Strahan/Favre bullshit sack record.

+1

[tucker rocky]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000108773/article/ninersseahawks-week-16-game-moved-to-sunday-night

[BillJasper]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000108760/article/cam-cameron-fired-by-ravens-jim-caldwell-to-step-in

I think it's hilarious that they're replacing him with Jim Caldwell. Never have I seen a guy that looked more clueless on an NFL sideline. Wonder if the Ravens will regret this move the way the Eagles regret firing Castillo?

[QuikSand]

I have not been all that plugged into NFL football this season, but the matchup tonight for MNFis exactly what the doctor ordered for that. I love the setup of the "already been there, but maybe past their best?" team taking on the "have they really arrived?" team at this point in a season.

The Texans seem to be an easy team to root for, I'd be plenty happy if they look really good and hang a solid win tonight... but it might make for more conference intrigue if the Pats "find a way" (a laughable phrase for a team this accomplished).

[DaddyTorgo]

DT's Pet Peeve of the NFL: DB's who run interceptions out of the endzone back onto the field of play. 99 times out of 100 (at least) you're better off taking a knee.

Why the coaches can't get this through their heads. Grrrr.

[stevew]

Don't run anything out of the endzone.

[DaddyTorgo]

WOW

Holy shit that was a beaut of a PA pass. Brandon Lloyd virtually uncovered for the big TD!

[cuervo72]

Still excited about the game, Quik?

[DaddyTorgo]

Still excited about the game, Quik?

Still very early and Houston is no joke. Plenty of time for this to get a lot closer. I've got tons of respect for Houston...I am fully prepared for the Pats to end up losing this game.

[rowech]

Still very early and Houston is no joke. Plenty of time for this to get a lot closer. I've got tons of respect for Houston...I am fully prepared for the Pats to end up losing this game.

No chance. Houston is shitting their pants yet again.