Shooting at Connecticut School

[BYU 14]

WTF, this is just getting ridiculous, an elementary school and apprently students were hit.

Can't the nutjobs that do this just fire one shot, into their own temple. These poor families, not knowing what the hell is going on with their children right now as police and rescue workers try and sort out the chaos.

Multiple deaths reported in shooting at Conn. school (http://news.msn.com/us/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Really scary to hear about this kind of stuff when my oldest just started kindergarten. I know it's random and likely won't happen at their school, but still, it's scary.

[Alan T]

Yeah, you caused me to have a mild heart attack. Had to find what school it was. (My oldest two daughters go to school in Connecticut).

[saldana]

cnn is saying serious injuries but not reporting fatalities

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

CBS says gunman and at least one child is dead. Reportedly was a father who confronted the principal.

[BYU 14]

Yeah, you caused me to have a mild heart attack. Had to find what school it was. (My oldest two daughters go to school in Connecticut).

Ugh, sorry Alan, glad your daughters are OK :)

[BYU 14]

Updated to more than one child among the dead now, just heartbreaking :(

[saldana]

abc is saying there were 2 shooters

[Alf]

All your guns are belong to us.

[Scoobz0202]

I want the official press conferance to happen. I'm hearing some high numbers that I hope are just twitter-era bullshit.

[saldana]

some sites are saying 2 adults killed, others are saying as many as 12, including a number of kids.

i cant wait for my girls to get home from school to hug them

[BYU 14]

OMG, CBS saying 27 dead, 14 children.....

Here is a link to live coverage

Newtown School Shooting | Page 2 | Liveblog live blogging | Reuters.com (http://live.reuters.com/Event/Newtown_School_Shooting)

[Sun Tzu]

Le sigh.

[Izulde]

Children and adults gunned down in Connecticut school massacre – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1)

For CNN's take on it.

[Comey]

I came on my lunch break to a VM from my ex-gf's mom. That's how I found out about it (she wanted to know what school I was working at, and to see if I was okay...I teach in Groton, which is on the other end of the state).

Newtown is a small town outside of Danbury; it is, by my recollection, more rural than even suburban. This is sickening and inexplicable. To be honest, this seems to happen in these type of towns more frequently than urban areas (which is where I wish to teach).

My thoughts are with everyone in Newtown. I have a couple of friends there, and to see any community go through this...words don't do it any justice.

[RomaGoth]

What a bunch of fucking bullshit. How does a parent even begin to cope with something like this? I do not own a gun nor do I hunt but I have never been anti-gun either. I am starting to wonder though.....

[mckerney]

abc is saying there were 2 shooters

Police are saying the shooter is a 20 year old from New Jersey.

[RomaGoth]

I pray that the fucker who did this burns for all eternity in hell. Fucking piece of shit.

[cougarfreak]

As a teacher. I'm ready for new laws that allow for teachers to have access to weapons at school, similar to conceal/carry laws. Proper training, etc.

[mckerney]

A SWAT team raided his residence in NJ, but he may have been found dead in a classroom.

[Qwikshot]

As a teacher. I'm ready for new laws that allow for teachers to have access to weapons at school, similar to conceal/carry laws. Proper training, etc.

Oh boy that's a dialogue for later. This murderer seems like a copycat from the Oregon mall shooting.

[mckerney]

CBS saying police have an individual in custody who may have been second shooter.

[johnnyshaka]

For five cents, why can't these idiots get it right...forget schools, malls, and movie theatres...why not go out in a blaze of glory in a maximum security prison instead and gun down unsuspecting child rapists, drug dealers, and convicted murderers?!?!

[DanGarion]

Wow, that's terrible.

[BYU 14]

Some may disagree with me, but I find it a little disturbing that reporters are even asking to stick microphones in the faces of 6-9 year old kids who have just been through this much trauma. As a parent there is no way I would consent to that.

Can't they just wait for official press releases?

[Matthean]

A SWAT team raided his residence in NJ, but he may have been found dead in a classroom.

He's confirmed to be dead.

[Scoobz0202]

Some may disagree with me, but I find it a little disturbing that reporters are even asking to stick microphones in the faces of 6-9 year old kids who have just been through this much trauma. As a parent there is no way I would consent to that.

Can't they just wait for official press releases?

I was just about to post this and saw your comment as I was typing.

Stop shoving 9 year old kids in front of the camera, asshole 24-hour news shows.

[DaddyTorgo]

I was just about to post this and saw your comment as I was typing.

Stop shoving 9 year old kids in front of the camera, asshole 24-hour news shows.

Exactly.

[RomaGoth]

Some may disagree with me, but I find it a little disturbing that reporters are even asking to stick microphones in the faces of 6-9 year old kids who have just been through this much trauma. As a parent there is no way I would consent to that.

Can't they just wait for official press releases?

I was just about to post this and saw your comment as I was typing.

Stop shoving 9 year old kids in front of the camera, asshole 24-hour news shows.

+1

[RomaGoth]

So one of the shooters had 4 weapons and was wearing a bulletproof vest. WTF?

[corbes]

I want to go home and hug my daughter.

[Easy Mac]

So one of the shooters had 4 weapons and was wearing a bulletproof vest. WTF?

You have to protect yourself for when deer become armed. You wouldn't want them shooting you back.

[DanGarion]

What channels are showing interviews of children. I'm going to bitch at them on twitter.

[kingfc22]

What the fuck is wrong with people!!! Shoot yourself in the fucking head if you are so miserable!

I can't even begin to imagine if this happened at my wife's school that she teaches at.

[Autumn]

I was just ranting to my wife about that too. If someone stepped up to my kid with a camera and a microphone at a time like this they would be hauling me away next.

[Noop]

Why???

What the hell happened to the world?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Until a few minutes ago I hadn't seen anything more than a brief "school on lockdown after shooting" blurb much earlier this morning. Clicked to my home page for the first time in several hours a few minutes ago.

No words.

[DaddyTorgo]

Until a few minutes ago I hadn't seen anything more than a brief "school on lockdown after shooting" blurb much earlier this morning. Clicked to my home page for the first time in several hours a few minutes ago.

No words.

Same

[Galaxy]

Oh boy that's a dialogue for later. This murderer seems like a copycat from the Oregon mall shooting.

And a copycat from the Denver theater shooting?

[Ben E Lou]

Reports are that police have discovered a body at the shooter's mother's house, or another home associated with the shooter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Minor detail but it's jumped out at me. TV seems to be consistently saying 24 y/o shooter. AP is still saying 20 y/o as of a couple minutes ago.

Also, the reference to the main weapon being a .223 rifle threw me for a minute. I'm going to guess it might have been an AR-15 or similar, which I think of as a .556 but usually forget that it can fire a .223 safely.

[mckerney]

Reports have as many as 29 dead with 22 children, though nothing confirmed yet.

:(

[PilotMan]

Fucking motherfucking pieces of fucking shit. My stomach hurts and my eyes well up. Pain and anger fill my heart and the need to hold my own children consumes me. My sympathy goes out to all those affected by this terrifying event. So very sad.

[cartman]

Minor detail but it's jumped out at me. TV seems to be consistently saying 24 y/o shooter. AP is still saying 20 y/o as of a couple minutes ago.

Also, the reference to the main weapon being a .223 rifle threw me for a minute. I'm going to guess it might have been an AR-15 or similar, which I think of as a .556 but usually forget that it can fire a .223 safely.

Yeah, a 5.56mm weapon can fire .223 rounds, but not vice versa. Most retail AR-15s are chambered for .223, while the military weapons are 5.56mm.

I haven't read anything about the shooter being 24. I have read that someone wearing camo was picked up by police in the woods outside the school.

[mckerney]

Andy Carvin ‏@acarvin
CBS affiliate: shooter went from classroom to classroom, shooting students and adults. Death toll may go up slightly. #newtown

[cartman]

Now there are reports coming out that the shooter had ties to the school.

[Autumn]

It's hard to fathom how deranged you would have to be to do this. This is a story taht just seems unbelievable, even knowing how fucked up humans can be.

[mckerney]

Now there are reports coming out that the shooter had ties to the school.

There had been word that he had for a while and that he may have been the father of a student.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/279635401931628544

CBS NewsVerified
‏@CBSNews
DEVELOPING: @JohnMillerCBS reports preliminary information indicates a student's father was CT school gunman http://cbsn.ws/live

[Logan]

They released the name of Ryan Lanza. Found a guy on FB going by that name, currently living in Hoboken, NJ, originally from Newtown.

[GoldenEagle]

For five cents, why can't these idiots get it right...forget schools, malls, and movie theatres...why not go out in a blaze of glory in a maximum security prison instead and gun down unsuspecting child rapists, drug dealers, and convicted murderers?!?!

Because these cowards that do this kind of stuff know they will face little resistance when they go to a school. A school like this is just a sitting duck for crazy people. I just can't believe someone could shoot that many kids.

[mckerney]

Andy Carvin ‏@acarvin
Did CBS just say that the other parent may have been murdered in NJ as well? #newtown

[GoldenEagle]

They released the name of Ryan Lanza. Found a guy on FB going by that name, currently living in Hoboken, NJ, originally from Newtown.

And there is a RIP page dedicated to this fucker already.

[Autumn]

And there is a RIP page dedicated to this fucker already.

Don't chase the trolls.

[mckerney]

CBS News ‏@CBSNews
BREAKING: WCBS-TV reports that shooter's mother was teacher at school, many of the victims apparently her students @CBSNewYork

[molson]

They released the name of Ryan Lanza. Found a guy on FB going by that name, currently living in Hoboken, NJ, originally from Newtown.

And this may be his twitter.

Ryan Lanza (Ryan__Lanza) on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza)

[RomaGoth]

Because these cowards that do this kind of stuff know they will face little resistance when they go to a school. A school like this is just a sitting duck for crazy people. I just can't believe someone could shoot kids.

fixed

[GoldenEagle]

Why is CBS still running with the father of one of the students story?

[Matthean]

And this may be his twitter.

Ryan Lanza (Ryan__Lanza) on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza)

Sure as hell reads like it.

[Comey]

What the fuck. What in the fucking fuck.

Seriously. What the fuck.

Tonight's going to be wine-addled. I know this now. What the fuck. Any of my students that asks me about this...I have nothing to tell them. Nothing. There is nothing but sadness in my face right now, and the only thing I have in common with those in Newtown is that the Sandy Hook community, and the Groton community, are essentially the same (and therefore, it's in the back of my head that this could *easily* be my school...but it could be *any* school). I do know that, when I left school today (I left a bit early), we were on lockdown. And we're across the state, and along the shoreline.

What. The. Fuck.

I'm going for a bike ride, because frankly, I don't know what else to do with myself.

[bulletsponge]

What the fuck is wrong with people!!! Shoot yourself in the fucking head if you are so miserable!



self centered nuts with unwarranted self worth couldnt imagine going out all alone like that, they want to be "something" before they die

[Passacaglia]

Sure as hell reads like it.

Yeah. It's kind of eerie. It's obvious reading it now that the guy had real problems, but seeing it on twitter, it sounds like a melodramatic teen.

[Kodos]

Seriously scary.

[RomaGoth]

What the fuck. What in the fucking fuck.

Seriously. What the fuck.

Tonight's going to be wine-addled. I know this now. What the fuck. Any of my students that asks me about this...I have nothing to tell them. Nothing. There is nothing but sadness in my face right now, and the only thing I have in common with those in Newtown is that the Sandy Hook community, and the Groton community, are essentially the same (and therefore, it's in the back of my head that this could *easily* be my school...but it could be *any* school). I do know that, when I left school today (I left a bit early), we were on lockdown. And we're across the state, and along the shoreline.

What. The. Fuck.

I'm going for a bike ride, because frankly, I don't know what else to do with myself.

Take it easy and take a lot of big breaths. Not much else you can do. My heart goes out to these families.

[RomaGoth]

self centered nuts with unwarranted self worth couldnt imagine going out all alone like that, they want to be "something" before they die

Completely agree.

[mckerney]

They released the name of Ryan Lanza. Found a guy on FB going by that name, currently living in Hoboken, NJ, originally from Newtown.

The facebook page that people were saying was the shooters apparently isn't.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-GU_PwCUAAQgFA.png

[GoldenEagle]

That is really weird that there are two Ryan Lanza's from Newport, CT.

I looked at the girl on twitter who may have been the gf that broke up with him. She looked young, like 15 or 16 young.

[BrianD]

Am I the only one who would prefer to not know the name of the shooter? I don't really see a benefit in identifying him and making him an actual person. Referring to him only as Fucked-Up Loser would be fine with me. There is nothing special about people who do this.

[RomaGoth]

The facebook page that people were saying was the shooters apparently isn't.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-GU_PwCUAAQgFA.png

Uhhh...was the Jessica girl asking if he needed stuff to take with him on the run????? On Facebook?????

[GoldenEagle]

Uhhh...was the Jessica girl asking if he needed stuff to take with him on the run????? On Facebook?????

Yea, that is kind of weird.

That poor guy though. There have been about 10 pages created with his face on it.

[molson]

If I was non-shooting Ryan Lanza from Newton I'd probably get an early start on my weekend away too.

[mckerney]

If I was non-shooting Ryan Lanza from Newton I'd probably get an early start on my weekend away too.

Yeah, probably had a shitty day already and couldn't blame him if he wanted to get away with possibly being swarmed with attention being mistaken as someone who'd shot a bunch of kids.

[digamma]

Photoshop?

[Ben E Lou]

Photoshop?duh

[Autumn]

Am I the only one who would prefer to not know the name of the shooter? I don't really see a benefit in identifying him and making him an actual person. Referring to him only as Fucked-Up Loser would be fine with me. There is nothing special about people who do this.

I'm not sure why they release it at this stage. Maybe it would get dug up anyway, but how is this useful information for the public to have? Maybe it made sense before the Internet, but now you're just giving the green light to a bunch of amateur detectives/trolls/voyeurs before the cops even get a chance to do anything.

[mckerney]

And this may be his twitter.

Ryan Lanza (Ryan__Lanza) on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza)

Ryan Lanza ‏@Ryan__Lanza
so aperently im getting spammed bc someone with the same name as me killed some ppl... wtf?

[DanGarion]

And this may be his twitter.

Ryan Lanza (Ryan__Lanza) on Twitter (https://twitter.com/Ryan__Lanza)

If it is, he's back from the grave.

People assume too much. That is how most of the late teen early 20 somethings act nowadays.

[GoldenEagle]

CNN is reporting that principal and guidance counselor were killed in the shooting

[Izulde]

Ryan Lanza ‏@Ryan__Lanza
so aperently im getting spammed bc someone with the same name as me killed some ppl... wtf?

Way to be a self-centered dick. Edit: I mean non-shooter RL.

[saldana]

obama presser at 3:15EST..possibly annoucing an intent to ban assault weapons

[Autumn]

No way Obama does that.

And that Twitter and Facebook stuff is exactly why these names shouldn't be released.

[GoldenEagle]

obama presser at 3:15EST..possibly annoucing an intent to ban assault weapons

I doubt that. His press officer said earlier that this was not the day to address gun control.

[mckerney]

No way Obama does that.

And that Twitter and Facebook stuff is exactly why these names shouldn't be released.

Yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if he were to do that now.

[SirFozzie]

Even I who thinks that we need to have a discussion on the issue (see other thread) thinks that this would be a horrible time for Obama to say anything more then "Our thoughts and prayers are with those who were killed today in a senseless tragedy. America Mourns with you".

[molson]

Ryan Lanza ‏@Ryan__Lanza
so aperently im getting spammed bc someone with the same name as me killed some ppl... wtf?

Oops...well, at last I'm not the Huffington Post.

[DaddyTorgo]

Even I who thinks that we need to have a discussion on the issue (see other thread) thinks that this would be a horrible time for Obama to say anything more then "Our thoughts and prayers are with those who were killed today in a senseless tragedy. America Mourns with you".

I love how your attempt to start a thread to discuss the issue (complete with warning in title it might get heated) was closed within like 5 posts.

[sterlingice]

Am I the only one who would prefer to not know the name of the shooter? I don't really see a benefit in identifying him and making him an actual person. Referring to him only as Fucked-Up Loser would be fine with me. There is nothing special about people who do this.

We could name them like hurricanes or let little kids name them. For instance, the wikipedia entry could say "Terdbrain Boogerpants killed 24 people in a Connecticut school massacre on December 14th, 2012".

I love that whashisname is still known as the "underpants bomber". Doesn't make him sound scary or famous, just comically stupid.

SI

[cougarfreak]

Just getting to pick up my two elementary kids after a day of teaching. Could not even imagine this happening. Why don't pieces of shit like this just do themselves in?

[SirFozzie]

I love how your attempt to start a thread to discuss the issue (complete with warning in title it might get heated) was closed within like 5 posts.

That's why I started the other thread, DT. I certainly don't agree with the decision (and one of the reasons I created that thread was to have a safety valve release) , but let's keep it out of this thread.

[Arles]

I posted this on FB, but at what point do we consider having an armed "air marshall style" security person randomly assigned to schools (or even permanently stationed)? Armed guards are placed in numerous situations where "valuables" are stored: Museums, banks, Hotels with vaults,... Is it time that we consider using an armed guard at a school? What's more valuable to us as a society than 200-300 elementary school kids unable to protect themselves against this kind of threat?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Given that within a fairly short period of time, an entire town is going to know the name & that they aren't going to be held incommunicado ... better than the name be released than have it turned into an internet meme with a totally bogus name. And yeah, that's what would happen. At least this way if someone decides to mess with Billy Joe Bubblebrain, reasonably intelligent people are going to know he wasn't the shooter (since the name is out there).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I posted this on FB, but at what point do we consider having an armed "air marshall style" security person randomly assigned to schools (or even permanently stationed)? Armed guards are placed in numerous situations where "valuables" are stored: Museums, banks, Hotels with vaults,... Is it time that we consider using an armed guard at a school? What's more valuable to us as a society than 200-300 elementary school kids unable to protect themselves against this kind of threat?

Those are not uncommon on a number of campuses already.

edit to add: School resource officers (or other generic names for campus cops) that are sworn & certified law enforcement personnel usually carry, at least in my experience.

[molson]

We could name them like hurricanes or let little kids name them. For instance, the wikipedia entry could say "Terdbrain Boogerpants killed 24 people in a Connecticut school massacre on December 14th, 2012".

I love that whashisname is still known as the "underpants bomber". Doesn't make him sound scary or famous, just comically stupid.

SI

I think it's just one of those prices of freedom things. Maybe we'd all be safer if the media just didn't report on this story at all. I don't want to live in that country though.

[Noop]

Careful with all this talk about guns because Skydog will ban you.

[spleen1015]

I don't have any words, man. WTF?

[lungs]

Speaking of mistaken identity, I went to school with a guy with the same name as the Northern Illinois shooter. The principal of my High School must've wanted to get in the limelight as he volunteered information that the shooter had gone to high school here..... Only problem was it wasn't him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Careful with all this talk about guns because Skydog will ban you.

I badly want to take this and run with it in a humerous way, but this isn't the thread for it.

[GoldenEagle]

I posted this on FB, but at what point do we consider having an armed "air marshall style" security person randomly assigned to schools (or even permanently stationed)? Armed guards are placed in numerous situations where "valuables" are stored: Museums, banks, Hotels with vaults,... Is it time that we consider using an armed guard at a school? What's more valuable to us as a society than 200-300 elementary school kids unable to protect themselves against this kind of threat?

This is one of the times I am glad that my wife teaches at an urban school. They have two full time police officers on the campus at all times. When we go to sporting events, they have cops in full body armor and strapped with automatic rifles.

[GoldenEagle]

The shooter's brother was found dead in the apartment, according to CNN.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe we'd all be safer if the media just didn't report on this story at all.

I do not want to sidetrack into a full blown discussion of it in this thread, but I do think it's worth noting that one of the primary reasons that things likes names of suspects are arrested is to reduce the government's ability to just have people "disappear" without a trace.

[mckerney]

The shooter's brother was found dead in the apartment, according to CNN.

Depending on who is right the shooters brother is either in custody as a suspected second gunman or dead at their parent's residence, and the brother's girlfriend may new dead or missing with another friend in New Jersey. Not a lot of good information anywhere yet

[spleen1015]

20 kids. WTF?! Sad sad shit.

[Arles]

This is one of the times I am glad that my wife teaches at an urban school. They have two full time police officers on the campus at all times. When we go to sporting events, they have cops in full body armor and strapped with automatic rifles.
Yeah, come to think of it, I remember having an armed escort to play East St. Louis when I was in HS. It was a little funny to most of us players as we all knew each other very well from camps and such over the summer. But, the high school at ESL was in a pretty rough area and some of the parents wanted us to be protected.

That was back in 1993, so one would think we could reach a point where some form of security was present at each school.

[stevew]

It's bad enough when a local kid just got accidentally killed by an accidentally chambered handgun. This type of shit makes me so fuckin angry and sad.

[GoldenEagle]

Official numbers are 27 dead: 20 children, 6 adults, and the shooter.

[Young Drachma]

This 'Ryan Lanza Facebook Profile Is The Connecticut Shooter' Stuff Is Fucking Up Everything (http://gawker.com/5968551/this-ryan-lanza-facebook-profile-is-the-connecticut-shooter-stuff-is-fucking-up-everything?utm_source=deadspin.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I'm FB friends with the profile being sent around. This is a real screen grab. <a href="http://t.co/YuEIdkW5" title="http://twitter.com/MattBors/status/279672597837402112/photo/1">twitter.com/MattBors/statu…</a></p>&mdash; Matt Bors (@MattBors) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattBors/status/279672597837402112" data-datetime="2012-12-14T19:41:58+00:00">December 14, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Matt Bors is a Pulitzer Prize finalist for editorial cartooning and apparently was friends on FB with this Ryan Lanza character, but not RL friends with him, since the FB profile was just for his comics. So the screen grab isn't shopped.

But apparently the profile has been deleted or deactivated.

[molson]

That was back in 1993, so one would think we could reach a point where some form of security was present at each school.

1993 was the peak of violent crime in the U.S., both violent crime generally and murder rates were just about double what they were per capita in 2011 - I can't imagine what it was in East St. Louis then. Just saying I can see parents on high alert. School/mass shootings themselves may be a different/distinct issue. Hopefully this doesn't count as "getting into it".

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Haven't seen it mentioned, but there was a school attack in China today too. No guns allowed over there, so the attacks are often knives or axes. They actually have to register if they own a knife over there, much like we do with guns.

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)

[Easy Mac]

Now reports are saying the guys brother was the shooter.

This is just shoddy reporting by the news agencies.

[Easy Mac]

Haven't seen it mentioned, but there was a school attack in China today too. No guns allowed over there, so the attacks are often knives or axes.

Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)

how many died?

[mckerney]

MASSACRE: Up to 27 people, including 20 children, shot dead at elementary school in Connecticut - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/potential_connecticut_school_shooting_8HMOSbP38TXwSYYsVGkYLO)

Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead and targeted her kindergarten class at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., sources sais. Sources also told The Post that Lanza's mother was a teacher at the school and he "had a dispute with her."

Lanza is dead inside the school.

Lanza used two handguns and a .223-caliber assault rifle, an official said. The official also said that New Jersey state police are searching a location in connection with the shootings.


Police in Hoboken, NJ are questioning Lanza's older brother Ryan, 24, but he is not a suspect.

Looks like the facebook profile going around might have been the right person in a way, but it may be his younger brother Adam that is the shooter.

[digamma]

I love how your attempt to start a thread to discuss the issue (complete with warning in title it might get heated) was closed within like 5 posts.

Careful with all this talk about guns because Skydog will ban you.

Honestly guys, I can't think of a worse time to start bitching about modding. Consider this a warning.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

how many died?

Still several in critical condition. Just terribly sad to see two similar crimes on the same day.

[Young Drachma]

Most outlets confirming that Adam Lanza, 20, is the shooter and that Ryan is not a suspect.

[mckerney]

newtown.patch.com/articles/reports-of-shooting-at-sandy-hook-elementary-school

Patch exclusive: The man identified in media reports Friday as the shooter has told friends that he thinks his developmentally disabled brother may have committed the crime, Patch has learned.

A close friend of Ryan Lanza who would not be identified told Patch that he spoke to Lanza as Lanza made his way home from work to Hoboken. Lanza also took to his Facebook page to rail against CNN naming him as the suspect in the shooting in Newtown, Conn.

[DanGarion]

MASSACRE: Up to 27 people, including 20 children, shot dead at elementary school in Connecticut - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/potential_connecticut_school_shooting_8HMOSbP38TXwSYYsVGkYLO)



Looks like the facebook profile going around might have been the right person in a way, but it may be his younger brother Adam that is the shooter.

Great now the all mighty internet mob can attack someone else from afar, until we really find out if that is the right name.

[GoldenEagle]

I think the name Ryan Lanza came straight from law enforcement.

[mckerney]

I think the name Ryan Lanza came straight from law enforcement.

I saw it came from CNN first, I don't think police named suspect sitting the press conference. Likely CNN or some one in media heard it confirmed it was the son our the kindergarten teacher Mrs. Landa and went with it from there. Instead they named the guy whose brother ours responsible and whose whole family was apparently just killed as it looks like reports of the shooters brother being killed were changed to father.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, come to think of it, I remember having an armed escort to play East St. Louis when I was in HS. It was a little funny to most of us players as we all knew each other very well from camps and such over the summer. But, the high school at ESL was in a pretty rough area and some of the parents wanted us to be protected.

What kind of a crazy world do we live in that East St Louis is being used as a model for safety?

SI

[Maple Leafs]

I saw it came from CNN first, I don't think police named suspect sitting the press conference. Likely CNN or some one in media heard it confirmed it was the son our the kindergarten teacher Mrs. Landa and went with it from there. Instead they named the guy whose brother ours responsible and whose whole family was apparently just killed as it looks like reports of the shooters brother being killed were changed to father.
Sounds like the guy (Adam) had his brother's (Ryan) ID. Police had that, and leaked the name to media.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What kind of a crazy world do we live in that East St Louis is being used as a model for safety?

SI

To be fair, he did say that the visiting school was the one providing the security detail. To the East St. Louis people, it was just another day.

[BYU 14]

Just heard on another board that apparently the office doors to the school are locked duinrg school hours and the shooter was buzzed in because they knew him as the son of the teacher. Haven't been able to confirm it, but this just adds a whole new level of horror to the tragedy, as the person at the office would have no reason to be suspicious.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I was just thinking about this summer when my oldest daughter received her first teacher assignment for kindergarten. I can't even put into a frame of reference the thought that my daughter's fate could lie in something as random as which teacher was selected for her as it apparently did in this case.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just heard on another board that apparently the office doors to the school are locked duinrg school hours and the shooter was buzzed in because they knew him as the son of the teacher. Haven't been able to confirm it, but this just adds a whole new level of horror to the tragedy, as the person at the office would have no reason to be suspicious.

That's pretty standard at most elementary schools in this area. They have cameras outside where you have to identify yourself before you can enter at my daughter's school. I'm sure it's going to be a whole lot tougher to get into her school during the day going forward.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm sure it's going to be a whole lot tougher to get into her school during the day going forward.

For a little while anyway.

(not making light, just being observational/honest)

[Autumn]

Well, and this demonstrates why it doesn't necessarily help. Would anyone have kept this guy out? Unless he was obviously packing, but the child of a teacher, or a parent, or what have you is going ot get in no matter what.

[Lathum]

words can not describe how unfathomable it is to even think of this. When my son is throwing a fit tonight because he doesn't want to put jammies on before bed I'll be thankful. My heart hurts for these parents and families involved.

[mckerney]

And now reports are no bodies found at the house. Pretty much every element of the story has been misreported at some point today.

[Kodos]

Here is an unedited post from Facebook by my brother, who lives in New Milford. I'll warn you upfront--it is heartbreaking.


A good friend of mine at work lost his only daughter in the shooting today in Newtown. As we were getting ready to leave work yesterday, he told me about how he was taking the day off (today) and that after his daughter got home from school, they were going with his wife to NYC to see the tree and ice-skating at Rockefeller Center. Please keep all of the victims and families involved in your thoughts and prayers. We as a civilized society need to put an end to this. What worse could possibly happen than having children as the innocent victims? The only good that can come from today is to have it be the inspiration to enact the gun control which has been needed for so long. Our founding fathers were thinking of foreign invaders when they wrote of "the right to bear arms". That is not how handguns and automatic weapons are being used in our society, and this must be put to an end!

[Kodos]

I don't see how a parent could ever recover from something like this.

[Lathum]

Here is an unedited post from Facebook by my brother, who lives in New Milford. I'll warn you upfront--it is heartbreaking.

I don't see how a parent could ever recover from something like this.

Me neither.

It is a very sad and very real reminder nothing is promised to us, not even time with our children. So very sad.

[Matthean]

I don't see how a parent could ever recover from something like this.

I don't think they are meant to. I had a friend tragically past away over 20 years ago. One of her relatives I think finally drove past the area where it happened this year. To this day I hate that week time frame of the year, and I was merely a friend.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For a little while anyway.

(not making light, just being observational/honest)

I agree. There will be a reactionary backlash and eventually they'll find a new norm.

[RainMaker]

This is one of the most fucked up stories I've ever heard.

[MizzouRah]

Been watching this.. very very very sad. :( It's just hard to fathom someone is capable of doing something like this.

[molson]

I'm guessing those security precautions are mainly about keeping sexual predators out. But nothing's fool-proof.

[BYU 14]

Here is an unedited post from Facebook by my brother, who lives in New Milford. I'll warn you upfront--it is heartbreaking.

Damn Kodos, words can't even begin to describe feeling reading that gave me. There is no way at all I can fathom what those poor parents are going through.

I have been teared up all day over this.....Poor kids..

[JPhillips]

It just hits home that any time I kiss my girl goodbye it could be the last time I see her. I pray for the families and for the survivors. Those kids are going to have a very rough time.

[King of New York]

Now CNN reports that Adam Lanza killed his mother at home in CT, and then went to the school, I guess for the purpose of killing her students. Dear God.

Given how many incorrect news reports have come out today, I suppose that this one might be wrong as well, but I'd been assuming that the mother was killed at school.

[JediKooter]

Given how many incorrect news reports have come out today, I suppose that this one might be wrong as well, but I'd been assuming that the mother was killed at school.

In their quest to be "FIRST WITH THE NEWS!!!!111!!! WE BR0UGHT IT TO YOU FIRRRRRRSSSSTTT!!!!!", I'm very jaded now and really don't take anything as being very accurate until a day or so after the events.

[mckerney]

Brought to you first live by interviews with 6 year old eyewitnesses!

[Sun Tzu]

What Kooter said.

[mckerney]

"Now Timmy, when the man shot your teacher and classmates right in front of you, how sis that make you feel?"

[JediKooter]

Reporters should get fined or suspended for doing that. Or short of that, a five finger sandwich to the chops.

[ISiddiqui]

:(

[Sun Tzu]

I guess it's fairly safe to say that any FOFC buzz-topics are going to result in ban-hammers coming down like never before.

[cmp]

So much misinformation reported today. Terrible job by the news organizations.

[RomaGoth]

So much misinformation reported today. Terrible job by the news organizations.

Yep. This is what happens in an age of texting and acronyms. Who cares if the information is correct or even legible as long as you (the reporter/agency) were the first to report it.

[sterlingice]

Now CNN reports that Adam Lanza killed his mother at home in CT, and then went to the school, I guess for the purpose of killing her students. Dear God.

Given how many incorrect news reports have come out today, I suppose that this one might be wrong as well, but I'd been assuming that the mother was killed at school.

I was happy with NPR on the way home as they seemed to not be saying things unless they are official or live reporting that they were doing on the ground. They have mentioned that there has been speculation about who it is but would not say anything more about it except that we may not have a confirmation until tomorrow.

SI

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So the guy on Facebook was the brother of the shooter and the son of the teacher? And he spends the afternoon bitching on Facebook that he's not the shooter while his mother is dead by the gun of his now dead murderer brother?

[cmp]

With the way everything is going right now who knows what he actually even knew at that point.

[mckerney]

With the way everything is going right now who knows what he actually even knew at that point.

And I don't think I'd consider making 4 posts over the span of 10 minutes, "spending the afternoon bitching on facebook." Especially since he probably had a lot of people he knew (and other he didn't) trying to contact him as soon as his name went out.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

With the way everything is going right now who knows what he actually even knew at that point.

If you aren't aware of all the details, if your mom teaches at a school that has a shooting with scores of dead, and the media names you as the killer, your first reaction probably shouldn't be to update your Facebook status to proclaim yourself as not the killer.

I know that if I were in that situation I wouldn't even remember that Facebook exists.

[Young Drachma]

I think we should continue to rush to judgment and assume that how we'd react is how everyone should react. Such behavior is constructive and very helpful.

[Desnudo]

If you aren't aware of all the details, if your mom teaches at a school that has a shooting with scores of dead, and the media names you as the killer, your first reaction probably shouldn't be to update your Facebook status to proclaim yourself as not the killer.

I know that if I were in that situation I wouldn't even remember that Facebook exists.

Based on his posts he was sitting on a bus home from work. What the hell else are you going to do? What better way to get the word out. Ultimately who the fuck cares anyway.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you aren't aware of all the details

No way for me to know what he did or didn't know but ... my reading of that was the he didn't have the foggiest idea his mom's school was involved or anything other than he had the same name as some shooter somewhere.

edit to add: My wife just mentioned this kernel of the story, so I went & dug it out of another article "Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010." The shooter lived with the mother, the brother apparently did not.

[Sun Tzu]

Why the hell are people in this thread getting upset about the Brother?

Christ, get a grip.

[Sun Tzu]

Pulled from a friends Facebook feed:

This reminds me of Hannah Arendt, who covered Adolf Eichmann’s Nazi War trial for the New Yorker. She coined the phrase “the banality of evil” because she saw how ordinary, regular, everyday German citizens did horrible things.

I think these mass-shooters are these ordinary people. They’re not super-villains, which conservatives like to focus on. “Gee whiz, what a bad person!” A lot of them are young dudes. Young, confused angry men are a dime-a-dozen. They’re not extra-ordinary. They’re regular guys that we all grew up around. They exist everywhere, but most of them just grow up or whiter away in some less spectacular fashion.

Conservatives like to focus on bad character as the problem (people kill people, guns don’t kill people) but then they certainly change their tune when it comes to Iran getting the bomb. Suddenly they understand that Ahmadinejad himself won’t kill everyone, but that the weapon will kill everyone.

If you haven’t noticed by now, our wonderful country is filled with little Ahmadinejad’s who on a bad day, will resort to killing as many people as they can.

[cougarfreak]

I just ran up to my school to get a set of rubrics for AP Essays I was grading tonight. Flag wasn't at half mast, so I did it myself. Came home. Spent time with my daughter and son instead of grading. I can't fathom what these parents, teachers, and community are going through. I tell myself I can't be a hero in this type of situation, that I've got my own kids to think about and live for, but I know I couldn't leave my class kids either. Unthinkable.

[MrBug708]

Pulled from a friends Facebook feed:

Should belong in the facebook post

[Sun Tzu]

Should belong in the facebook post

Sure thing, Pedro.

[MrBug708]

Whose Pedro?

[Logan]

Reporter broke news to father of suspect - StamfordAdvocate (http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Reporter-broke-news-to-father-of-suspect-4119559.php)

[Buccaneer]

I have a friend who lives in Newtown and he said that there is an incredible amount of shock and sadness as he went around town to do errands today. I can't imagine the grief of the families involved. :(

The inherent nature of evil and sin rears its ugly head once again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've pondered the role of "evil" in this incident (you can likely guess what the commentary on my FB wall looks like) ... I'm not sure at this point that's what I see here.

IF some of the details about the shooter provided so far prove to be right, I'm thinking this is actually something different, maybe subtly. To this point I'm not sure that the shooter perceived anything "wrong" with what he was doing, he was simply acting on his desire at that moment. Think "lack of empathy" taken to a horrifying degree.

Maybe I'm 100 miles off base, maybe they'll find pentagrams & odes to Satan in his room., just throwing out something that was part of the family conversation tonight.

[IlliniCub]

At this point I'm picking up the same vibe you are Jon and that's from someone who works with the mentally ill on a daily basis

[Autumn]

I haven't heard anything to explain it at all, but it only makes sense that it's something like that, Jon. I just can't even imagine what sort of evil intent he would have had to have had to do this. If he was not deranged in some way it's just unfathomable.

[chinaski]

and the shark has been jumped.

[King of New York]

Now there are some reports that his mother was not a teacher at Sandy Hook. And that the mother had purchased all three guns used.

[IlliniCub]

It's still evil...but is the real problem that society makes every attempt these days to try to integrate and release those who probably should be locked up

[Autumn]

Yeah, if the mother was not a teacher there I'm not getting what was going on at all. Well, I didn't get it before, but at least there was some connection.

[IlliniCub]

As an someone who works in the schools....I just am blitzed today... I saw the inital report where the school district wasn't even acknowledging it and thought if anything it was minor (not that there is a minor to those involved) but then at the end of the school day logged in and saw the toal and was floored....I wondered what extremes I'd go to to protect my students....and it kind of shatters the safety of my quality world

[molson]

I saw the inital report where the school district wasn't even acknowledging it and thought if anything it was minor

Just as a random thought, the first I heard of this was literally a report that a "teacher had been shot in the foot." Things escalated quite a bit from there, unfortunately.

[RainMaker]

No way for me to know what he did or didn't know but ... my reading of that was the he didn't have the foggiest idea his mom's school was involved or anything other than he had the same name as some shooter somewhere.

edit to add: My wife just mentioned this kernel of the story, so I went & dug it out of another article "Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010." The shooter lived with the mother, the brother apparently did not.

Yeah, I think people should give the brother some slack till more details come in. This could have just been a guy who was going about his business, saw a bunch of shit on his Facebook feed, got angry and went on his day. Then realized later on that it was his brother and Mom's school.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Why the hell are people in this thread getting upset about the Brother?

Christ, get a grip.

Not getting upset here. Just finding it odd... not that anything can actually be considered even close to being normal when something like this happens.

That article about the father is a bit too detailed. Horribly written. Does it matter what color shirt he was wearing? What side of the garage he parks on? It's like J. Peterman took up reporting...

[Sun Tzu]

Whose Pedro?

Not mine.

[RainMaker]

I'm really confused now.

Nancy Lanza Not a Teacher? | TPM Editors Blog (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/nancy_lanza_not_a_teacher.php)

[spleen1015]

rowech, I think gun laws vary by state.

Here are 2 examples of silliness with guns laws that I have encountered over the years.

When I was in the USAF, stationed in Alabama, I got a concealed weapon permit and I never showed anyone a picture id. I never had to verify my identity to anyone, never had to prove that I live in the state of Alabama. To get tags on my car, I had to have 2 forms of picture id and proof that I was a resident of the state. Fucked up?

A guy that I worked with was keeping a shotgun for his brother while his brother was have some life issues, no stable place to stay etc. My friend lives in NY. He didn't have a license or permit for the gun. He and his wife got into an argument and the neighbors called the cops. While the cops where there, the wife told them about the gun. The guy went to jail for a year because he didn't have a permit/license for the gun. NY gun laws I guess. Fucked up?

[rowech]

I'm really confused now.

Nancy Lanza Not a Teacher? | TPM Editors Blog (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/12/nancy_lanza_not_a_teacher.php)

I'm guessing it will come out that she was a substitute teacher there and not full time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From somebody who knows nothing about our gun laws, some questions...

State laws vary of course but ...

I believe rate of fire (automatic vs semi-automatic) is the primary restriction, not number of rounds. But there are limits on magazine size as well.

Not quite so much "basic vs advanced" but things like full automatics are limited to a relative handful of collectors that have been subject to more thorough background checks.

Mostly have to swear you aren't crazy in most states IIRC.


Big caveat here though: it does not appear that he obtained the guns legally. Reports are that they were all legally obtained & registered to his mother. The bulletproof vest he was reportedly wearing was illegal in CT.

[molson]

Mostly have to swear you aren't crazy in most states IIRC.



And the way that really ends up getting categorized is whether someone has a prior conviction for either a felony, or misdemeanor domestic battery. That's a pretty easy line states can handle. But until that serious crime happens, states generally don't (or aren't legally allowed to) make any kind of attempt to determine who's just "too crazy" to legally purchase a gun.

[IlliniCub]

The way things are going I worry the next mentally disturbed/ deranged shooter is just watching the news and licking his chops

[rowech]

The way things are going I worry the next mentally disturbed/ deranged shooter is just watching the news and licking his chops

One of the things that has worried me for a while is this whole 12/21 crap. Most people are smart enough to realize it's pure hokum but what if some insane person believes it be true and goes crazy for some reason?

[molson]

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick' (http://gawker.com/5968650/abc-reporter-reaches-out-to-possible-sandy-hook-victim-is-told-to-eat-a-dick)

[Sun Tzu]

My goodness. Facebook is just flowing with people talking about gun control. Every conversation looks something like this:

Guy #1 says shields exist for protection, guns exist for destruction.
Guy #2 berates Guy #1 with endless personal attacks about being a "Libtard."
Wash, rinse, repeat.

Sigh. I love social networking.

[IlliniCub]

I see the same people on my Facebook who earlier in this week criticized local schools for once again taking a bomb threat so seriously (how it inconvenienced them picking up their kids and what not) falling all over themselves to post about how horrible this tragedy was. I still doubt it drove home the point to them why these local school bomb threats are taken so seriously.

[Ben E Lou]

Per police press conference a few minutes ago, he forced his way into the school.

[Matthean]

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick' (http://gawker.com/5968650/abc-reporter-reaches-out-to-possible-sandy-hook-victim-is-told-to-eat-a-dick)

News reporter's twitter page doesn't seem to exist anymore.

[Sun Tzu]

Seriously?

[thesloppy]

I simply can not fathom the number of people who think more guns, and armed guards and faculty in elementary schools is the solution to this problem. The thought of armed guards in elementary schools is soul-deadening to me.

I guess we'll just never know what would have happened if something like this had ever happened in a place full of CCP carrying citizens, with a proper, armed security response....like, say a mall. I worked in a mall for five years....I had to pass 3 gun stores to get there, worked with at least two folks who had CCPs and carried every day (including the mentally handicapped, 50 year-old dishwasher lady), this particular mall had an armed security force that patrolled the building and a Sheriff's office ON SITE. That mall was Clackamas Town Center.

[DanGarion]

Moderating the thread here eh? Come on...

[DanGarion]

Can someone please post in this thread how we are supposed to think and what we are supposed to say so people don't lose posts? I need to know what my opinion is so I can contribute to the conversation here.

[Ben E Lou]

Honestly guys, I can't think of a worse time to start bitching about modding. Consider this a warning.Some people just can't help themselves.

[Izulde]

Note to self: Banhammer getting swung especially hard this week.

[Ben E Lou]

Note to self: Banhammer getting swung especially hard this week.No one else has been suspended or banned this week to my knowledge, though I've not been around much so maybe I missed a short one. Only the two from a few minutes ago are currently suspended, though. That I know for sure. *shurg*

[Senator]

My son is in kindergarten, so I can relate to the unfathomable fear a parent has when they leave their child in the hands of others. This is really the sum of all our fears. Words don't make me feel better.

[Alan T]

This is really the sum of all our fears.

This is kind of where I am. I don't know if I totally ever feel comfortable again to be honest. As people here know, my family has a huge education center in it. Not only do my oldest two go to school in Connecticut, but virtually all of my family were teachers or work in schools. My wife, my mom, my grandmother, my mother in law, my father in law..

I fully understand that there has been school violence before, or even deaths in schools.. but this one just hit home the worst for me, the most helpless targets possible. How am I supposed to feel good every day letting my three daughters and virtually all of my family go to a place that seems now a days to be one of the top targets for senseless violence?

[Lathum]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

[bulletsponge]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

have you seen how politics works? they will exploit the dead for their own goals before the blood is mopped up. that how its always been.

[molson]

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.

[sterlingice]

One of the things that has worried me for a while is this whole 12/21 crap. Most people are smart enough to realize it's pure hokum but what if some insane person believes it be true and goes crazy for some reason?

I've been wondering about that a little, too. Sadly, I'm a little glad that I'll be flying that day as, frankly, incompetent tho they may be and as much as I've railed against them (and will continue to do so), the TSA would deter most nutjobs into find an easier target.

SI

[RendeR]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?


Those poor people don't give two fucks about anyone else's bullshit right now. Wtf difference does what anyone else discusses have to do with this beyond your own sense of whats right and proper?

As for the recent bannings:
The moderating needs to get a fucking grip. I understand you're just trying to derail any possible "get out of hand" items but you're killing gnats with a sledgehammer right now. Knock it off.

[Ben E Lou]

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.

[sterlingice]

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick' (http://gawker.com/5968650/abc-reporter-reaches-out-to-possible-sandy-hook-victim-is-told-to-eat-a-dick)

I feel a bit guilty about it, but I LOL'd

SI

[sterlingice]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

We all deal with tragedy and grief in different ways. We're not embedded in the Connecticut community so we're going to view things from afar and not in a direct personal nature. We can only relate to how it might happen to us and how we might feel. However, I think you've seen a lot in this thread of people concerned about it happening again and wanting to do something about it. There is some measure of trying to prevent the next tragedy as a way with coping with those feelings of a lack of safety. People want to do something about it to keep it from happening again.

And feel free to ignore this next paragraph if you don't want to look at the politics of it. However, there's an easy argument to be had that one shouldn't make a decision this close to a tragedy as the emotion clouds judgment and I think that's how we ended up with, say, the Patriot Act. But I would argue that converse is that the Dodd-Frank Act is what happens when you wait too long after a crisis to do something about it so you get a watered down bill which will not prevent the future catastrophes it was trying to prevent.

SI

[miami_fan]

I fully understand that there has been school violence before, or even deaths in schools.. but this one just hit home the worst for me, the most helpless targets possible. How am I supposed to feel good every day letting my three daughters and virtually all of my family go to a place that seems now a days to be one of the top targets for senseless violence?

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

I am so impressed by those that can discuss the policy/politics rationally at this point. I like to think I could discuss anything rationally at any point. This has taught me that is not the case. This incident just has left me with such sadness. I just have no interest in that type of discussion at this point.

[Grover]

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

edit: hopefully the crazy moderator folks don't ban me for this one.

[gstelmack]

And feel free to ignore this next paragraph if you don't want to look at the politics of it. However, there's an easy argument to be had that one shouldn't make a decision this close to a tragedy as the emotion clouds judgment and I think that's how we ended up with, say, the Patriot Act. But I would argue that converse is that the Dodd-Frank Act is what happens when you wait too long after a crisis to do something about it so you get a watered down bill which will not prevent the future catastrophes it was trying to prevent.

I agree. But if we are to have a rational discussion, we have to look at ALL aspects, not just gun control. These incidents are ramping up in frequency, what has been changing that might explain it? Not advocating for or against any particular position (I'd probably argue against a few of these, and both sides of others), but we have to discuss guns in general, gang culture plus violence in movies and video games (reference a culture desensitized to violence), internet / social media plus media in general (reference to quick spread of the story), past mass killings that have involved a variety of motives and methods (things like the Dallas Bell Tower, Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympics, etc), and population growth (our society puts more people in contact with more other people constantly). It just seems to me that in the past many suicides have an included an element of "my death will show them and punish those who harmed me!", but for some it's grown to "as part of my death I have a way to punish those who harmed me and get my side of the story out!". Why that change? But it's not just suicides either, as the Colorado Movie Theater showed.

My fear would be a kneejerk reaction that doesn't actually address the problem, but I also agree that waiting until everything cools down may lead to a minimalist reaction that does nothing to address the problem. We have to find that middle ground and work towards something that has a shot at improving the situation.

[Buccaneer]

I also think people have different perspectives, thus a diversity of reactions/posts. There is the tendency among a lot of people to forget even the near distant past (tragedies, sports, wars, disasters, politics, etc.) that it puts the sole spotlight on the latest event. This was truly a bad one and I can't imagine what it was like to be there. But in my lifetime, I knew of wars that killed 60,000 (not 4,000 like the recent ones) and race/protest riots where there were dozens killed daily. I also remember most of the school killings (like the one a kid came in and shot up a bible study). Newtown is probably the worst so far in my view, but it will not get better no matter what laws, regulations or rules were enact.

[gstelmack]

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

I missed that one, it should get added to my list of discussion points. I'm sure there are others.

[BishopMVP]

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster) ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.

[GrantDawg]

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

edit: hopefully the crazy moderator folks don't ban me for this one.


This this this. We continue to defund mental health programs across the country, when we actually should have been doubling and tripling up on funding. Even now, mental health has a negative stigma to it, yet it is a part of the root causes of many of our social ills (crime, poverty, homelessness).

[GrantDawg]

That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster) ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.


The Bath school bombing is one that most people don't know about, but is still the deadliest school mass murder.

[sterlingice]

People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.

I also think people have different perspectives, thus a diversity of reactions/posts. There is the tendency among a lot of people to forget even the near distant past (tragedies, sports, wars, disasters, politics, etc.) that it puts the sole spotlight on the latest event. This was truly a bad one and I can't imagine what it was like to be there. But in my lifetime, I knew of wars that killed 60,000 (not 4,000 like the recent ones) and race/protest riots where there were dozens killed daily. I also remember most of the school killings (like the one a kid came in and shot up a bible study). Newtown is probably the worst so far in my view, but it will not get better no matter what laws, regulations or rules were enact.

That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster) ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.

But you can understand why these sort of responses aren't all that comforting to people. In a time of disbelief, even moreso than grief, a dispassionate and calculated (and probably correct): "It's going to happen again and there's nothing we can do about it" is not going to satisfy those whose world views were changed by this event. And I'm not necessarily talking about those who live in Connecticut, but, again, those among us who have a reasonable expectation of safety and security at school shattered by an event such as this. It's understandable that people want an answer and want to be told it won't happen again and there's no way to convince them of "it's happened before and will happen again" will suffice.

Also, I think (and as I've argued in other threads after similar tragedies), these are times for reflection in society as to whether we think particular actions or decisions we make as a society are prudent ones, whether they would have affected this particular incident or not. This way you can make changes for the better on the margins and feel that you're improving things even if it wouldn't have necessarily have done anything about this particular incident.

SI

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Whatever your view is, tragedy strengthens it. If you believe in gun control, something like this enforces your belief that there are too many guns available to too many people. If you're pro-gun you want to arm teachers, faculty and maybe even the students.

I'm of the belief that guns don't kill people. People kill people. But people with guns kill a lot more people more efficiently than people without guns.

So fucking ban me.

[molson]

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

[BillJasper]

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

Good stuff.

[SegRat]

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

They need to show more of this on CNN

[King of New York]

So the mother, Nancy Lanza, has an emotionally disturbed son, but she is also an avid gun collector who, at least according to one person who claims to have known her, takes her sons to a shooting range.

That's a really, really bad combination, and not just in hindsight.

[BYU 14]

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

Can never get enough of stuff like this :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

It started up on my FB less than than two hours after I first saw the story (which was well into the afternoon). All of the initial stuff came from one side, which seemed to prompt a response. And, honestly, it doesn't seem to be something where it's wise to allow the opposing viewpoint to dictate the tone of the conversation that is likely to follow.

[Desnudo]

So the mother, Nancy Lanza, has an emotionally disturbed son, but she is also an avid gun collector who, at least according to one person who claims to have known her, takes her sons to a shooting range.

That's a really, really bad combination, and not just in hindsight.

This is the aspect of the story that seems really tragic to me. Just seems like a combination of poor decision making, mental illness, and opportunity created a worst possible scenario. She'll probably get a pass from criticism since she was killed, but you do have to wonder wtf was going on in that house.

[IlliniCub]

Anything said about possible motive yet if there was one? I wonder if it was planned or if after killing his mom he just chose a location at random?

[SirFozzie]

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9747829/Connecticut-school-shooting-Teachers-tell-how-they-hid-with-children-to-escape-gunman.html)

[King of New York]

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9747829/Connecticut-school-shooting-Teachers-tell-how-they-hid-with-children-to-escape-gunman.html)

Great article--thanks for the link. I am awestruck at the courage and quick-thinking of the teachers and staff.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. Looks like he telegraphed his act anonymously on a message board.

» Real Or Fake? “I’m Going to Kill Myself on Friday and it Will Make the News” Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/im-going-to-kill-myself-on-friday-and-it-will-make-the-news/)

[Maple Leafs]

Wow. Looks like he telegraphed his act anonymously on a message board.

» Real Or Fake? “I’m Going to Kill Myself on Friday and it Will Make the News” Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/im-going-to-kill-myself-on-friday-and-it-will-make-the-news/)
The story says he posted on 4chan. He may have, but there are lots of sites out there that "fued" with 4chan, with either side setting up fake photoshopped screen shots to make the other look bad after a tragedy.

[Matthean]

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9747829/Connecticut-school-shooting-Teachers-tell-how-they-hid-with-children-to-escape-gunman.html)

Of course my cynical side is saying Soto is the one who's image is being passed around on FB since she attractive.

[whomario]

Just a tragedy ... Dunno how, but this has to be stopped. At least people in power ought to make a concerted effort to try.

[Buccaneer]

Just a tragedy ... Dunno how, but this has to be stopped. At least people in power ought to make a concerted effort to try.

The people in power made drugs illegal but I don't think that made a difference either. Just like in medicine, you have to attack the root causes and the people in power have tried for millineums to stop people from killing each other. What they can do is to beef up security at schools, as they do in places of businesses. But that will likely take resources away from other areas, esp. when school districts have to pay for it.

[molson]

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=167352920)

[chinaski]

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=167352920)

So stupid.

Fox pulled new episodes of "Family Guy" and "American Dad" that were to air Sunday to avoid potentially sensitive content. The originally scheduled episode of "Family Guy" had Peter telling his own version of the nativity story. The "American Dad" episode told the story of a demon who punished naughty children at Christmas. Both series plan to substitute reruns.

[chadritt]

Either of those shows could have actually had a scene where a kid gets shot. American Dads christmas episodes especially can get DARK and weird. Theyll be shown one day, then well know if it was stupid or not.

[whomario]

The people in power made drugs illegal but I don't think that made a difference either. Just like in medicine, you have to attack the root causes and the people in power have tried for millineums to stop people from killing each other. What they can do is to beef up security at schools, as they do in places of businesses. But that will likely take resources away from other areas, esp. when school districts have to pay for it.

There´s a ton of industrialized countries with way lower murder rates than the US (Britain is a prime example). Sure it´s nothing that can be changed overnight and it might be too late by now, but that doesn´t mean it shouldn´t be given a try.

@ chinaski : I don´t find this stupid at all. What´s the downside here ? It´s not like theese shows (or any other) are essential for anyones standard of living.

I am a big proponent of freedom of press/speech/whatever, but if there´s no harm in not publishing/speaking/airing i don´t see why it´s a bad thing to be safe in such a situation.

[molson]

@ chinaski : I don´t find this stupid at all. What´s the downside here ? It´s not like theese shows (or any other) are essential for anyones standard of living.



"Essential for anyone's standard of living" is a pretty high standard.

[mckerney]

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=167352920)

As if they'd ever stopped being and weren't already?

'Mass Effect' Facebook Page Attacked Because Misidentified Shooting Suspect Liked It (http://mashable.com/2012/12/14/mass-effect-facebook-shooting/)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think there's probably some reasonable level of sensitivity that can be exercised short of the level of outright unreasonable censorship.

I saw an example of what I mean last night on my FB. Hard rockers Nonpoint mentioned that they initially decided not to perform their biggest hit "Bullet With A Name On It" at their concert last night in Baltimore. Ultimately they put the question to the audience,which made it clear they wanted it to be played. But there's a backstory here, as two members of the group have children under the age of 2 (one only 9 months or so). The discussion of their thought process is consistent with other things they've said on other subjects in the past, I completely believed it was a personal choice but one that they wrestled with professionally, leading them to take a different route. I could understand them choosing not to perform it last night for their own reasons, I can understand them choosing to perform it for ticket buying fans from a sense of professional obligation.

Those kinds of things aren't always a case of censorship=bad.

[chadritt]

Also, to be fair, nobodys being censored. The network decided for various reasons not to air it. Ive actually been on a show where this happened. We had something that due to a news event couldve been considered horribly insensitive so we worked overtime to remove it. Nobody told us to, we just all looked at it and went "yeah, thats bad."

ETA: just saw it was the network and not technically the creative team doing it. Still doesnt feel like censorship, just a VERY late network note.

[molson]

As if they'd ever stopped being and weren't already?

'Mass Effect' Facebook Page Attacked Because Misidentified Shooting Suspect Liked It (http://mashable.com/2012/12/14/mass-effect-facebook-shooting/)

Sure, it just seems they were bigger targets in the past, and that it was a discussion that Hollywood and video game industry ultimately "won" in American culture. The balance between freedom and security is always going to be touchy when it comes not just to guns, but in terms of all this other stuff too - censorship (and non-government pressure on entertainment content), TSA, criminal sentencing, mental health.

[Matthean]

Via FB so who knows if Morgan Freeman said it or not.

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[Buccaneer]

Regarding pulling shows, as long as it's not the government that is making that happen. Private companies can decide what product to sell or not for whatever reasons and be responsible for any successes, failures or consequences as the result.

[molson]

Morgan Freeman's just not quite the same in printed word form.

[RainMaker]

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

[RainMaker]

I don't understand why people blame the sensationalist media. A person walked into an elementary school and slaughtered little kids. Are they supposed to do a 30 second bit on it and move on to the weather?

Don't like defending the media too much, but they do seem to fall into this no-win situation. If they cover the big event too much they are sensationalizing, if they cover garbage like Lindsay Lohan they are ignoring real news.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

Freedom!

'Murika!

Don't question the Constitution - it's an infallible document!!

:rolleyes:

[molson]

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

I think there'd be a little more tolerance for the policy discussion earlier if the tone was like it (usually) is here - pretty rational. People love to say "in before the lock" and all that but I think there's been plenty of rational gun control debates here. But some people on my facebook wall seem almost excited this happened. The grandstanding and the "blood is on your hands" stuff, ya, I'd rather they calm down and keep it to themselves for a few weeks. The vibe of the rhetoric is that if you have these certain political leanings than you care more about children than if you have these other political leanings (I say vibe but that's actually outright stated when the conversations get heated.) There's no rational discussion that can take place when that kind of emotion is involved. The freedom and security balance is really tricky, and the issues are complicated, and nobody has all the answers. If you can start a discussion where people agree with that, then there's no reason you can't have rational policy discussion any time.

[molson]

'Murika!



What's the point of this kind of stuff? This is where I can see the "too soon for policy discussion" argument. Where you see huge swaths of the the country as uneducated cartoon characters, it's tough to have a rational discussion. Edit: Maybe I'm just being sensitive, I just find that kind of stuff really off-putting, maybe because I've had about a million jokey conversations with people back home about living around "backwards" people now.

[JPhillips]

But the pro-gun people do the same thing. On my Facebook last night I had a college friend respond to a completely politics free post by saying that teachers should be armed and if they were these children wouldn't have died.

[molson]

But the pro-gun people do the same thing. On my Facebook last night I had a college friend respond to a completely politics free post by saying that teachers should be armed and if they were these children wouldn't have died.

That's my point. I'd say that a debate between that person and the "blood on your hands" people wouldn't be particularly productive, and would probably get really heated in a hurry. They wouldn't even really be discussing policy, they'd just be expressing their disdain for each other using this as a backdrop. That what makes it feel opportunistic and scummy, (to me), not the fact that someone wants to talk about policy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hope that you'll indulge me what I'm about to post.

I'm also going to do something I don't think I've done here quite so blatantly as I'm about do: I'm going to ask that something I post be given, I dunno, some gentle treatment. If you hate it, or want to hate on some part of it ... try to exercise some restraint. If it seems more appropriate that I move this to another thread, I'm open to that.

What I'm posting is what I just saw on Facebook as my 14 y/o son's status update. It's probably more words than he's posted there in a month, almost certainly the longest thing I've ever seen him write outside of a school assignment.

I don't think I'm so much looking for approval here or even trying to maybe brag on my kid (maybe some of that, not for content so much as because of the honesty). I'm just kind of stunned by it, I haven't seen anything like this from his age group on the subject, maybe that's where the value lies. He's one of a bazillion teens out there, I reckon they have a stake in this thing too. And, judging from this, I don't know that a lot of them are really in much different a place than most of us.

Today and yesterday I have really been speechless. That's not really something that I have happen to me that much. The shooting in Connecticut really struck me. I started to think when I was that age. I found it hard to figure out what I would have done. I don't think I would have cried, but I don't think I would have been Mr. Hero either. But if there is any heroes in this type of situation it is always going to be the teachers and administration and other adults at the school. Those were the heroes yesterday. The principal gave her life to try and stop the gunman. A first grade teacher named Victoria Soto saved at least 15 lives by giving up hers. The other people that I think are heroes are the parents of the surviving children. They have comforted their surely shaken children. They have been deeply affected as well. But they are also helping the grieving parents of the children who were swiped away from them. I also think that the emergenc
y services have done a marvelous job so far. They have one of the toughest jobs. I can't imagine being one of the officers that stepped into that school and seeing all that destruction. I really want to express my condolences to everyone affected by this shooting. The politics of all this is really getting to me though. While we all have our own thoughts on gun laws and such, can we let this pass first begore we start debating? It has got to be hard to be a grieving family and the news networks are already starting to debate gun laws and the such. I certainly have my feelings on them and will start talking about it next week, but at the moment we all should focus on helping those families ( which people have done an amazing job of so far) affected. I am still processing this and at the moment I feel bad for the Lanza family. They have been fully cooperative and they have lost 2 family members as well They are getting a lot of heat for things that they couldn't control. I think that they made a mistake of not having treatment for Adam Lanza but they thought they were doing what is best. I just can't quite get over the fact of the children though. Those were 5-7 year old kids. They were so innocent. Think back to when you were about 6 and what you would have done. I have found this troubling. I couldn't imagine being that age and having a total of 26 people, including 20 friends, being murdered within about 100 feet of you. It is just heartbreaking.That is the word that I keep finding that describes the situation best.

Keep the whole town of Newtown Connecticut in your thoughts and prayers and keep up all the support.

[Buccaneer]

Hate all of it or some of it?? A great post, imo.