NFL Week 16 Thread

[Abe Sargent]

....and going strait from the Wk 15 thread, Ryan is starting McElroy this week



Mark Sanchez of New York Jets benched, Greg McElroy to start - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8759414/mark-sanchez-new-york-jets-benched-greg-mcelroy-start)

[mauchow]

A few weeks too late. At this point you may as well see what McElroy can do for you for the final two games.

Vikings and Texans -- Looking forward to that one.

[spleen1015]

Go Colts and Redskins. Let's make the playoffs!

[Matthean]

Seattle vs. SF.
NYG vs. Balt.
Cinci vs. Pitts.

Are the other key games.

[Butter]

Let's see if the Bengals will ever fucking beat the Steelers in a game that matters.

I'm betting "no".

[claphamsa]

no thursday or monday night games this week? but a sat night game? wierd! looks like week 17 is all on sunday....

[Honolulu_Blue]

no thursday or monday night games this week? but a sat night game? wierd! looks like week 17 is all on sunday....

They shifted the Monday night game to Saturday because of Christmas Eve.

Not sure why there is no Thursday night game.

[Logan]

I believe there are also 11 early games vs 3 late games.

[stevew]

I believe there are also 11 early games vs 3 late games.

I fucking hate this shit. As much as I've liked having sunday ticket, it absolutely blows when you get all the good games a the same time and have to watch the Broncos or Pats at 4 with Phil fucking Simms. Or you can switch over to some Cardinals travesty.

[mckerney]

A few weeks too late. At this point you may as well see what McElroy can do for you for the final two games.

Vikings and Texans -- Looking forward to that one.

Looking forward to seeing how close Peterson can get to the rushing record this week and being one game closer to getting rid of Ponder.

[albionmoonlight]

Looking forward to seeing how close Peterson can get to the rushing record this week and being one game closer to getting rid of Ponder.

With the Saints and my fantasy team both eliminated from further relevant play, the two things for which I am rooting for the remainder of this regular season is AP getting the record and RGIII making the playoffs.

[mckerney]

With the Saints and my fantasy team both eliminated from further relevant play, the two things for which I am rooting for the remainder of this regular season is AP getting the record and RGIII making the playoffs.

Same. I'd like to see Washington make the playoffs even if it comes down to them or the Vikings for the last spot for the chance to see RGIII play. Plus its but like the Vikings can do anything in the postseason without a QB anyway.

[Logan]

I fucking hate this shit. As much as I've liked having sunday ticket, it absolutely blows when you get all the good games a the same time and have to watch the Broncos or Pats at 4 with Phil fucking Simms. Or you can switch over to some Cardinals travesty.

All the more reason to just cancel the Ticket and stick with Red Zone. When there are that many games going on at once, I'd rather someone else do the work for me instead of trying to figure out what I should be watching. Unless you're getting it because you're a fan of an out of market team, I don't see the point with the way the NFL schedules now.

[Masked]

All the more reason to just cancel the Ticket and stick with Red Zone. When there are that many games going on at once, I'd rather someone else do the work for me instead of trying to figure out what I should be watching. Unless you're getting it because you're a fan of an out of market team, I don't see the point with the way the NFL schedules now.

I believe you can no longer get the DirecTV version of Red Zone without subscribing to Sunday Tickect plus some $100 add-on.

[stevew]

I wanna watch the Steelers game for sure, but it's not guaranteed where I live. I typically get almost every game though, but occasionally we get the Browns.

I also want to watch liberal doses of guys like RG3 and Peterson as well.

[Logan]

I believe you can no longer get the DirecTV version of Red Zone without subscribing to Sunday Tickect plus some $100 add-on.

Seems like there's no real reason to have DirecTV at that point then...

[Radii]

I believe you can no longer get the DirecTV version of Red Zone without subscribing to Sunday Tickect plus some $100 add-on.

Seems like there's no real reason to have DirecTV at that point then...

Both correct. We keep it because mom was unhappy with her last experience with Time Warner and refuses to switch back. If it were up to me I'd have gone back to cable once I knew I could get Red Zone. Sunday Ticket monopoly was the only reason I cared about DirecTV in the first place.

[cuervo72]

$100 add-on? Hrm, I'll have to investigate that. We get the Siciliano Red Zone and I don't recall signing up for anything beyond the regular Sunday Ticket.

[Radii]

$100 add-on? Hrm, I'll have to investigate that. We get the Siciliano Red Zone and I don't recall signing up for anything beyond the regular Sunday Ticket.

Sunday Ticket price was dropped this year, but "Sunday Ticket Max" was $100 more than the regular Sunday Ticket and was the only way to get Red Zone Channel and some other stuff that I forget since I was only interested in Red Zone Channel in the first place.

[lungs]

That $100 add on is free if you call and threaten to cancel Sunday Ticket altogether...

[Honolulu_Blue]

I pay $9 per month for the Red Zone Channel through Comcast. I order it week one and cancel it week 17, so it ends up costing about $40 in total.

[cuervo72]

Sunday Ticket price was dropped this year, but "Sunday Ticket Max" was $100 more than the regular Sunday Ticket and was the only way to get Red Zone Channel and some other stuff that I forget since I was only interested in Red Zone Channel in the first place.

Yeah, I'd heard that the regular price was going down, but I thought the extra $100 was for the all-22. I'll have to ask my wife about it, but I don't remember her saying anything about the extra, only the discount.

[General Mike]

Giants need to win, so they won't :(

[BYU 14]

Forget Tebowing

Adorable little girl raps about Colin Kaepernick | Yardbarker.com (http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/msn/oh_nothing_just_a_little_girl_rapping_about_colin_kaepernick/12461812)

[Passacaglia]

The standings page on nfl.com has a key saying that x means clinched playoffs, and y means clinched wild card. I'm not sure if they intend there to be a difference between the two. I'd think if they were, it would be that "y" means you will definitely be a wild card, but can't win your division -- if you've clinched at least a wild card, you'd be an "x". However, no one is an "x" and San Francisco and Baltimore, both on top of their division, are the only "y" teams in the standings.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Nick Wright, a local sports radio host here in KC, is reporting that his Chiefs source is saying that both Crennel and Pioli have been informed that they will be let go at the end of the season.

[Matthean]

Nick Wright, a local sports radio host here in KC, is reporting that his Chiefs source is saying that both Crennel and Pioli have been informed that they will be let go at the end of the season.

For the best for multiple reasons.

[Racer]

Giants need to win, so they won't :(

I *think* they still control their own destiny as far as making the playoffs go.

1. They wouldn't be in the playoffs today because they lose the divisional tiebreaker to both Dallas and Washington. Dallas loses the wild card (non-division) tiebreaker to the Vikings.

2. Dallas and Washington still play each other meaning if the Giants win out and either Dallas or Washington win out, the Giants finish 2nd in the division.

3. The Giants didn't play the Bears or the Vikings this year. After head to head the next tiebreaker for non-divisional teams in conference record. If the Giants win out, they'll finish with a better conference record then the Vikings and the Bears.

So even though the Vikings would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, I don't believe the Vikings control their own destiny.

[jbergey22]

Looking forward to seeing how close Peterson can get to the rushing record this week and being one game closer to getting rid of Ponder.

Sadly, IF the Vikings were to make the playoffs Ponder will still be starting next year. The Vikings front office isnt smart enough to realize that AD and the OLine has made him from being the worst QB(other than Ryan Leaf) to ever play the game into just a sorry excuse of a starting QB.

[Matthean]

New York Jets to shop Mark Sanchez, part ways with Tim Tebow, according to sources - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8763411/new-york-jets-shop-mark-sanchez-part-ways-tim-tebow-according-sources)

[mckerney]

New York Jets to shop Mark Sanchez, part ways with Tim Tebow, according to sources - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8763411/new-york-jets-shop-mark-sanchez-part-ways-tim-tebow-according-sources)

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Minnesota at least... :(

[Desnudo]

Tebow Peterson option would be pretty interesting

[spleen1015]

I hope the NFL parts ways with Tebow.

[Abe Sargent]

Tebow should have taken teh Jacksonville job, then he would have started a bunch of games instead of a certain ex-Miami QB

[Honolulu_Blue]

And Drew Stanton should have stuck it out with the Jets, because he'd be getting the start now instead of becoming the next Jim Sorgi.

[Matthean]

Tebow should have taken teh Jacksonville job, then he would have started a bunch of games instead of a certain ex-Miami QB

If he's simply dumped, you have to figure they would be looking to add him.

[Logan]

NFL admits officials, replay assistant screwed up on 49ers fumble | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/20/nfl-admits-officials-replay-assistant-screwed-up-on-49ers-fumble/related/)

During the first quarter of Sunday’s 49ers-Patriots game, San Francisco’s Colin Kaepernick hit Delanie Walker with a pass, and New England’s Steve Gregory hit Walker just as he grabbed the ball, knocking it loose. Aqib Talib picked the ball up, and the officials ruled it a fumble recovered by the Patriots.

One problem: Walker never had possession of the ball. Another problem: The replay assistant who is supposed to review all turnovers and tell the referee to take a closer look at the close calls never told the ref to review the play.

The officials got the play wrong on the field, but NFL director of instant replay Dean Blandino placed the blame on the replay assistant in an appearance on NFL Network.

“This actually never went to review,” Blandino said. “The replay official confirmed it upstairs without bringing the referee over. And that’s a mistake. We need to bring the referee over.”

[Matthean]

Flem File Adrian Peterson Calvin Johnson break Dickerson Rice records - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/15639/flem-file-climbing-over-dickerson-and-rice)

[Glengoyne]

I fucking hate this shit. As much as I've liked having sunday ticket, it absolutely blows when you get all the good games a the same time and have to watch the Broncos or Pats at 4 with Phil fucking Simms. Or you can switch over to some Cardinals travesty.


That is what made me give up Sunday Ticket. By the time I'm home from Church on Sunday there were days when I had two choices in the afternoon.

[Abe Sargent]

TO be fair ot Tebow, i can understand why he might not want to go home with that much pressure, media, and such from his family, hometown, school, and colege all rigth there. it might be the wise thing to go elsewhere to avoid those distractions while focusing on the job at hand.


The counter to that is that he's Tebow - everyone will be like that no matte rwhere he is, jacksonville his hometown no different.

[Abe Sargent]

Abe's "instant" turnaround plan for the Jags:

Trade for Alex Smith hard core.
Sign the shit out of OT Long - don't let anyone outbid your ass
Draft the defensive draft you need + a good OG in the 2nd-4th round.

Now you have Alex Smith, Maurice Jones-Drew, Marcedes Lewis, Justin Blackmon and Cecil Shorts - you are set for a year or two at these key positions. You have Long, a strong C, half way decent other O Line,

You have a good P and K

You keep Babin, who has looked better than anything you have alredy, and you have good LBs with Daryl Smith back in the lineup and the others who have developed - add one good draft on top, and you are rocking.


Now you can begin to compete with the Colts and Texans in the AFC South.

[Desnudo]

I hope the NFL parts ways with Tebow.

Current qbs Tebow is clearly better than: anyone in Arizona, other 2 jets, Gabbert, Ponder, henne, weeden. So he'll be around for a while.

[jeff061]

I'm not sure he's better than any of those. I think he's probably as good a QB as Gronkowski is.

[Desnudo]

Pretty sure he is...

[mckerney]

In the Vikings last six games, Christian Ponder has completed one pass in 23 attempts 15 yards or more downfield. During that time, 40 other players have completed multiple passes of those distances. Ponder's last completion 15 yards or more came in Week 10 against the Lions.

"Hello New York Jets, we'll take one of your quarterbacks please. Really doesn't matter which one..."

[miami_fan]

In the Vikings last six games, Christian Ponder has completed one pass in 23 attempts 15 yards or more downfield. During that time, 40 other players have completed multiple passes of those distances. Ponder's last completion 15 yards or more came in Week 10 against the Lions.

"Hello New York Jets, we'll take one of your quarterbacks please. Really doesn't matter which one..."

This is blatant favoritism for the Jets. The Dolphins have had mediocre to bad QB for years and you never offered to take one of ours!

:p

[EagleFan]

James Harrison is an idiot. "A life threatening issue to me is going low and blowing out someone's knee. Now the player can't feed his family."

Yeah, that is much more life threatening than a potential head and neck injury...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ponder's last completion 15 yards or more came in Week 10 against the Lions.

Of course it did.

[Suburban Rhythm]

James Harrison is an idiot. "A life threatening issue to me is going low and blowing out someone's knee. Now the player can't feed his family."

Yeah, that is much more life threatening than a potential head and neck injury...

Was the Mayan prediction off, and rather than the end of the world, it just sends us back like 24 months?

Isn't this what he said after the Mohamed Massaquoi hit?

[mckerney]

Oh my god, how did the Jets let this happen?

McElroy: Everything I know about playing QB I learned from Sanchez | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/20/mcelroy-everything-i-know-about-playing-qb-i-learned-from-sanchez/)

[bulletsponge]

LOL ^^

for a second there i thought that was an Onion article

[Vince, Pt. II]

Seriously. Does McElroy just have no concept of the public perception right now? There are ways to support a teammate without saying "I want to do exactly what he was doing" after 5 turnovers on Monday Night against a bad team.

[Matthean]

So he knows how to butt fumble?

[stevew]

i hate how the Jets get so much press but have never been particularly good and haven't won a superbowl since the merger. I feel like 85% of the NFL season has been stories about the Jets, the refs and the Saints. You hear almost nothing about the good teams in the league.

[spleen1015]

i hate how the Jets get so much press but have never been particularly good and haven't won a superbowl since the merger. I feel like 85% of the NFL season has been stories about the Jets, the refs and the Saints. You hear almost nothing about the good teams in the league.

I agree with you 100%. It drives me crazy.

[Desnudo]

i hate how the Jets get so much press but have never been particularly good and haven't won a superbowl since the merger. I feel like 85% of the NFL season has been stories about the Jets, the refs and the Saints. You hear almost nothing about the good teams in the league.

I agree. Lets talk about the Patriots.

[cougarfreak]

Bengals/Steelers playing for pretty much all the playoff marbles. Hopefully the Bengals can grow up and kick the shit out of them.

[Julio Riddols]

Cincinnati winning this game, a game they probably should win given the circumstances, would be a watershed moment in their recent history of trying to become relevant and respectable again. If they lose, they'll still be the same old Bengals, withering under pressure. One of the biggest games in franchise history this week. I'm almost afraid to watch.

[stevew]

I heard Kemo von Awful was going to be on the sidelines.

[GrantDawg]

Roddy White is a half-way decent receiver.

[GrantDawg]

Julio Jones is pretty decent as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Nice catch in the corner by him, yup

[Danny]

Julio will be better than roddy white. And that's not meant to a slight toward white

[GrantDawg]

Julio will be better than roddy white. And that's not meant to a slight toward white


Agreed. He is already well beyond where Roddy was at this point in his career. If he continues improving, he is going to be something.

[Julio Riddols]

Julio and A.J. Green will have a long career being talked about in the same breath.. It's like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens all over again, except with way better attitudes.

[TroyF]

Calvin a 5 yard catch from breaking the record.

[stevew]

Tebow supposedly a lock to the Jags.

[Abe Sargent]

Sigh

[Matthean]

Does this kill the Madden jinx?

[Scoobz0202]

He only needs 129 yards for 2,000.

[stevew]

How do the Lions look for the 3rd pick? What is their strength of defeat looking like.

[stevew]

ah, found something....looking like they will be the last pick in whichever tied record scenario they finish in.

[Matthean]

ah, found something....looking like they will be the last pick in whichever tied record scenario they finish in.

Because Detroit sucks so much they suck at sucking. :D

[Scoobz0202]

Well, at least that garbage time helped me in my Fantasy Football championship (have Stafford and Megatron in a PPR league).

I'll take it.

[Julio Riddols]

Does this kill the Madden jinx?

It's a mixed bag. Seems like he had a fools gold season here, where these amazing numbers mean jack shit because his team regressed significantly. I feel like in this instance it could still be considered part of the curse that he could have the best receiving yardage season in NFL history while his team finishes with one of the worst records in the league.

[Scoobz0202]

It's a mixed bag. Seems like he had a fools gold season here, where these amazing numbers mean jack shit because his team regressed significantly. I feel like in this instance it could still be considered part of the curse that he could have the best receiving yardage season in NFL history while his team finishes with one of the worst records in the league.

Does the Madden Curse really have anything to do with the teams, though? Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it always been about the player having a shit year?

Calvin was as good as ever (well, his TD numbers were down)

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, I can see that. There have been exceptions to the curse, and maybe WR are immune. Fitzgerald wasn't hurt by it either.. What other receivers have been on the cover? Moss?

[Desnudo]

Can someone who watched the game explain how stafford threw for 450 yards and no TDs?

[Danny]

Gruden is a schmuck. He kept whining over and over about how Johnson's record is tainted because he gets a lot of garbage time yards. How about him playing with no surrounding talent and getting double covered every play? How about a poor running game allowing other teams to key in on the pass? How about him playing on a bad knee and never practicing all season? Obviously, most if not all records involve a player being in a situation which even makes it possible, but I wanted to punch him with all his whining.

[Glengoyne]

Does this kill the Madden jinx?

Only five TDs. Of course, I drafted him first over all in my fantasy league, so maybe I'm to blame for that.

[Glengoyne]

Can someone who watched the game explain how stafford threw for 450 yards and no TDs?

Atlanta Bent but didn't Break?
Detroit was just trying to get Megatron the record?
Detroit doesn't have a running game to threaten at the goal line?
Detroit sucks?

All of the above.

[Passacaglia]

Atlanta Bent but didn't Break?
Detroit was just trying to get Megatron the record?
Detroit doesn't have a running game to threaten at the goal line?
Detroit sucks?

All of the above.

Well, they did get a rushing TD...at the goal line, too.

[Alan T]

Can someone who watched the game explain how stafford threw for 450 yards and no TDs?


Turnovers. I think 2 or 3 fumbles and an interception. Especially in the first half, almost every time the Lions had a big play for a large gain, it was followed shortly with some kind of turnover.

In the drives that they did not turn over the ball, they seemed to stall out between the 20 and 30 yard line and had to settle for field goals for a while.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Happy 40th anniversary to all our Raiders fans at FOFC.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Agz-yAk4BsE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Dutch]

Still crazy stuff. Ultimately, I like to believe it was a legal play based on what I see and that's probably better information than the ref's had. I see no way they could or should have called it different.

[bulletsponge]

Still crazy stuff. Ultimately, I like to believe it was a legal play based on what I see and that's probably better information than the ref's had. I see no way they could or should have called it different.

back then the ball is dead once a defender deflects it, so technically it should have been a dead ball before the "catch"

[Suburban Rhythm]

LOL call on Brett Keisel.

15 yard unsportsmanlike call after sacking Dalton for "going to the ground in celebration"
Keisel shoots an imaginary bow in celebration, went down on 1 knee.

Doesn't Jared Allen still do his lasso celebration?

[Lathum]

thank goodness I have my Ipad and NFL Sunday ticket because the only game at my parents is Jets-Chargers.

[Lathum]

Nick Foles is an asshole. Throw the ball away moron

[kingfc22]

Hopefully the Saints make it a Merry Christmas in Dallas.

[larrymcg421]

At Sun Life stadium. Fins looking good so far. The Tannehill keeper plays have been excellent.

[stevew]

Troy....what a sack.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Troy....what a sack.

LIKE

[JPhillips]

AJ Green has been terrible the last three games.

[Matthean]

Interesting games with Indy and Houston involved.

[rowech]

AJ Green has been terrible the last three games.

I really think the Bengals are afraid to be good. Every time they get a game like this, they look like little kids. It's easier for them to just be bad. It's difficult to be good.

[Galaril]

Interesting games with Indy and Houston involved.

Good for the Broncos. Texans got to go to Indy and win to retain the home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Good luck doing that.:D

[Suburban Rhythm]

Really questionable FG call by Marvin Lewis.

[JPhillips]

Marvin's decisions are inexplicable.

[JPhillips]

4th and 22 with a 50 yd FG chance = Go for it

4th and 11 with a 56 yd FG chance = Kick it

If the Steelers get a FG that will be almost entirely on Marvin.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Marvin's decisions are inexplicable.

Just fucking pure idiocy. Gift wrapped the game. Merry Christmas Pittsburgh.

Tomlin did the same on a Thursday night vs Tennessee early in the year. Suisham's only miss (til today's) was a 55 harder. Tennessee took the ball, scored winner on next drive.

How these guy's don't have an accurate gauge of their kickers range is odd.

[kingfc22]

Just fucking pure idiocy. Gift wrapped the game. Merry Christmas Pittsburgh.

Or not.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Can we just let neither of these teams into the playoffs?

[kingfc22]

Can we just let neither of these teams into the playoffs?

I was just about to post that neither team wants to win this game.

[tucker rocky]

McElroy bagged for the 10th time today.

edit: sacked again, 3 consective sacks on that series.

[MizzouRah]

Rams win! :)

[Julio Riddols]

The Bengals defense was the best they have ever been today, and the team as a whole grew up. HUGE win. One of the biggest in team history.

[cougarfreak]

I really think the Bengals are afraid to be good. Every time they get a game like this, they look like little kids. It's easier for them to just be bad. It's difficult to be good.

Not this year. Squealers stay home.:)

[JPhillips]

That was a hell of a last two minutes.

If Cincy beats Baltimore do they win the division?

[OldGiants]

I have officially reached the point where I will use a semi-automatic weapon on the next team that tries to draw a team offside with 20 seconds plus of hard count signals.

Get on with it, dipsticks.

[kingfc22]

New Orleans pass defense is horrible.

[rowech]

Not this year. Squealers stay home.:)

I'm so giddy.

[rowech]

That was a hell of a last two minutes.

If Cincy beats Baltimore do they win the division?

Baltimore can win division if they win today. If they lose...I'm not sure.

[Thomkal]

I have officially reached the point where I will use a semi-automatic weapon on the next team that tries to draw a team offside with 20 seconds plus of hard count signals.

Get on with it, dipsticks.

I'm with you there OG-hate when teams try that and Brees does it a lot.

[tucker rocky]

....and Dallas ties it.

[stevew]

Spectacularly horrible coaching battle in Pittsburgh.

[JPhillips]

btw- The Bengals defense was superb.

[Scoobz0202]

Rooommmoooooooo!

[Julio Riddols]

Spectacularly horrible coaching battle in Pittsburgh.

Both of those fg attempts late were terrible ideas. I also thought Cinci passing up a 50 yard FG attempt to go for it on 4th and 22 in the 1st half was pretty bad.

[MIJB#19]

That was a hell of a last two minutes.

If Cincy beats Baltimore do they win the division?No, they don't. If Baltimore <strike>loses to</strike> beats the Giants and Cincinnati beats Baltimore, we're going to tie-breakers:
1. head-to-head: will be tied after the week 1 win for Baltimore
2. division record: Baltimore is 4-1, Cincinnati 2-3

The Cincinnati win made Baltimore the division champions (if Baltimore wins today). Pittsburgh was Baltimore's rival that kept them from clinching the division.

[JPhillips]

No, they don't. If Baltimore loses to the Giants and Cincinnati beats Baltimore, we're going to tie-breakers:
1. head-to-head: will be tied after the week 1 win for Baltimore
2. division record: Baltimore is 4-1, Cincinnati 2-3

The Cincinnati win made Baltimore the division champions. Pittsburgh was Baltimore's rival that kept them from clinching the division.

As long as Baltimore wins today. If they lose out they'll be a game behind Cincy. I just wasn't sure if today's Baltimore game mattered, but clearly it does.

[MIJB#19]

Yeah, Baltimore clinches if they win today, because of the tie-breakers. Pittsburgh was still in a position where they could get the better tie-breakers in a three-way tie.

[MizzouRah]

Saints!!!

[Desnudo]

Does indy have anything to play for next week or are the Texans going to back into the #1 seed?

[Thomkal]

:::covers his eyes as the Cards fumble on the goal line and lose it for a TD:::

[Vince, Pt. II]

Does the Baltimore coaching staff just hate the shit out of Ray Rice? What the hell.

[Desnudo]

Eli doing Eli things

[MIJB#19]

Just did some tie-breakers digging for how things will be at the end of the season. Below are all possible combos of tied teams and how they are broken:

race for #1 seed, #2 seed, #3 seed
NEP > HOU,DEN (hthth)
NEP > DEN,BAL (conf)
NEP > HOU (hth)
NEP > DEN (hth)
HOU > DEN (hth)
DEN > BAL (hth)
BAL > NEP (hth)

race for AFC North
BAL > CIN (div)

race for #5 seed
IND > CIN (comm)


race for #2 seed
SF4 > GBB (hth)
SEA > GBB (hth)

race for NFC West, potentially for #2 seed
SF4 > SEA (comm)

race for NFC East, NFC East 2nd place
DAL > WAS v NYG (div v NYG, then comm v WAS)
WAS > NYG (div)
DAL > WAS (comm)
because of the DAL-WAS clash, there can't be a DAL-NYG 2-way tie

race for NFC North 2nd place
MIN > CHI (div if Chi doesn't go LW; comm if Chi LW)

race for #5 and #6 seed
NYG > SEA,MIN (conf)
NYG > SEA,CHI (conf)
WAS > SEA,MIN (hthth v MIN, then conf v SEA)
SEA > DAL,MIN (hthth)
WAS > SEA,CHI (conf)
SEA > CHI,DAL (hthth)
NYG > MIN (conf)
NYG > CHI (conf)
NYG > SEA (conf)
WAS > MIN (hth)
WAS > CHI (conf)
WAS > SEA (conf)
DAL > MIN (comm)
CHI > DAL (hth)
SEA > DAL (hth)
SEA > MIN (hth)
SEA > CHI (hth)

Keep in mind that if several teams across division are tied, ties from the same division are broken first to keep one team at most for each division in the running.

[MIJB#19]

Does indy have anything to play for next week or are the Texans going to back into the #1 seed?Indianapolis has tie-breakers over Cincinnati, so if all of Baltimore, Cincinnati and Indianapolis are 10-6, Baltimore wins the AFC North, Indianapolis gets wild card 1 and Cincinnati wild card 2. That locks Indianapolis in the #5 seed already.

[Glengoyne]

Rules committee needs to rewind about Seven years and re-determine just what a catch is.


Cause they haven't had it right in quite a while.

[Glengoyne]

What did I miss there. Why would the giants want to review that play?


Incomplete pass was better than a recovered fumble.

[Desnudo]

What did I miss there. Why would the giants want to review that play?


Incomplete pass was better than a recovered fumble.

Balt had possession then fumbled themselves which would reset downs

[JonInMiddleGA]

11 sacks of McElroy by the Chargers ... srsly?

Did Sanchez pay off the linemen or something?

[Matthean]

If I have this right, the Giants lose today and they are done.

[mckerney]

If I have this right, the Giants lose today and they are done.

Not mathematically, but the Lions would need to beat the Bears for them to make it.

[MIJB#19]

If I have this right, the Giants lose today and they are done.Not yet. They have tie-breakers over all the other divisions' NFC teams. Even at 9-7 they have a shot at it, but obviously they need Minnesota, Chicago and Seattle all to be 9-7 at best. If one of them is better than 9-7, they need Washington to win the division (to keep Dallas worse than 9-7).

[mauchow]

Thanks, Ravens for possibly allowing to have the Vikings control destiny... keep it up, please!

[Racer]

If I have this right, the Giants lose today and they are done.

I don't think that's right.

1. Bears lose this week or next.
2. Vikings lose next week.
3. Cowboys lose next week.

Giants own tiebreaker over both the Vikings and Bears.

Granted if they lose, the road to the playoffs becomes much tougher.

[Matthean]

Not mathematically, but the Lions would need to beat the Bears for them to make it.

It looks like I went back to previous settings after checking that and somehow the Giants are still in even if the Lions win. It's mostly down to Seattle getting beat twice with any other competition for the Giants also losing.

[Matthean]

I don't think that's right.

1. Bears lose this week or next.
2. Vikings lose next week.
3. Cowboys lose next week.

Giants own tiebreaker over both the Vikings and Bears.

Granted if they lose, the road to the playoffs becomes much tougher.

I put Chicago down for a win this week. I don't see the Cards coming back from 21-6.

[mauchow]

Detroit can win @ home. They will love to play spoiler against an average defense.

[Glengoyne]

Balt had possession then fumbled themselves which would reset downs


I just didn't think it was a slam dunk change of possession there... And I am further unclear why Pereria said that the ball would have been dead once the defensive player lost it.

[Matthean]

Ah, ok. It's basically if Chicago or Seattle wins, the other has to lose for the Giants to be in. Both Chicago and Seattle play crappy teams although the Lions are always good for a win you figure they can't get. This also assumes Minnesota and Dallas lose.

[bulletsponge]

gmen laying a turd

[tucker rocky]

Giants team in general:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7WAwuSK36Gw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[tucker rocky]

49ers playing another wet weather game.

[Abe Sargent]

Am I being abad guy if I want the Seahawks to thump teh 49ers?

[Abe Sargent]

AM I also beign a bad guy if I want Russell Wilson to have a better career than Luck or RG3?

[Scoobz0202]

If the Cowboys don't win the Super Bowl I'm conflicted. I want the Seahawks, but Pete Carrol

[kcchief19]

So, can we finally be done with Tebow now? If the stories are true (and I have no reason to believe they are not) that he told coaches he wouldn't play the wildcat this week, could he be a worse football player? I'll let people make the argument that part of his sideways relationship with the Jets is that his teammates bagged on him to the media. But I'll also have to acknowledge the counter argument that the reason his teammates bagged on him is that he doesn't work hard enough or practice well enough.

I don't want to go so far as to say his whole persona is an act, but I think Tebow loves attention but can't handle criticism. He seems like a primmadonna.

If he indeed goes to Jacksonville next year, the Jaguars may end up with an even worse QB situation next year than they have now.

[Desnudo]

Wilson making a good case for roy

[JonInMiddleGA]

But I'll also have to acknowledge the counter argument that the reason his teammates bagged on him is that he doesn't work hard enough or practice well enough.

You have got to be kidding. Even the guy who fucked him over, good ol' Rex, commented about how hard Tebow worked.

I don't want to go so far as to say his whole persona is an act, but I think Tebow loves attention but can't handle criticism.

All I can do after this is LOL.

[kingfc22]

Seattle clearly playing like this game matters more to them. Niners have no rhythm in offense or defense at the moment.

[Desnudo]

49ers contuing horseshoe up the arse luck

[Desnudo]

Wtf weak sauce call

[EagleFan]

Great hit, lame predictable call.

[Glengoyne]

Wtf weak sauce call


I think you think you are watching NFL of yesteryear.

Closer to a fine than a questionable call...

Really should be on Kaepernick though, cause he hung him out to dry.

[Abe Sargent]

wow

[EagleFan]

I think you think you are watching NFL of yesteryear.

Closer to a fine than a questionable call...

Really should be on Kaepernick though, cause he hung him out to dry.

You have your homer goggles on. That was a clean hit.

[Glengoyne]

wow

What he said.

[kingfc22]

Bring on the Cards at home next week :D

[EagleFan]

Great start for the Hawks.

[Glengoyne]

You have your homer goggles on. That was a clean hit.

Not arguing that. The DB Teed off on a receiver holding up for a ball. Receiver's head snapped back. Details don't matter.

This season that is getting called.

[SackAttack]

Davis was in mid-air when the hit was delivered. I don't think the hit itself was illegal, but isn't the fact that he was in mid-air make that a hit to a defenseless receiver?

[Abe Sargent]

That post-apoclyptic chevy truck commercial with the looks like we made it song might be my new favorite commercial for 2012


I don't remember seeing it in months and months

[RedKingGold]

Kaepernick is playing scared.

[Glengoyne]

Davis was in mid-air when the hit was delivered. I don't think the hit itself was illegal, but isn't the fact that he was in mid-air make that a hit to a defenseless receiver?


It doesn't have to be helmet to helmet to be a penalty. I don't know the particulars, but while I think that is the hit we all want the DB to deliver in that circumstance, it is going to get called.

Edit: given that Davis is out with a concussion, I guess that hit is something to be avoided. Maybe we need to adjust our mentality to want to see the DB just let the receiver make the catch and wrap him up.

[SackAttack]

It doesn't have to be helmet to helmet to be a penalty. I don't know the particulars, but while I think that is the hit we all want the DB to deliver in that circumstance, it is going to get called.

That's what I'm saying. Even if he didn't hit Davis in the head, pretty sure the penalty is still legitimate.

[tucker rocky]

Kaepernick is playing scared.

Alex Smith available?

[kingfc22]

Personal foul for a tackle? That wasn't even a defenseless receiver

[kingfc22]

Should have been a personal foul on that play. 3 guys tackled Lynch...

[mauchow]

Personal foul for a tackle? That wasn't even a defenseless receiver

He was defenseless when the guy picked him and the next guy came and hit him -- lol. Not sure wtf they were thinking on the penalty.

[Desnudo]

Personal foul for a tackle? That wasn't even a defenseless receiver

Ahaha so a 49er leaving his feet to hit guy being held by another defender is not a penalty but a Seahawk jarring the ball lose is?

[kingfc22]

Ahaha so a 49er leaving his feet to hit guy being held by another defender is not a penalty but a Seahawk jarring the ball lose is?

That first call on the Davis hit was awful too.

How many times in a game do corners hold a guy up for another guy to tackle? Practically every play...

[Abe Sargent]

Hello Seattle!

[Julio Riddols]

Seattle is as hot a team as I have ever seen.

[Desnudo]

That first call on the Davis hit was awful too.

How many times in a game do corners hold a guy up for another guy to tackle? Practically every play...

I don't know like porn I know it when I see it. 1st what should he do? Not try and jar the ball lose? Second seemed to be clearly pointless.

[stevew]

If I was a jags WR I would demand a trade if they add Tebow. A life of getting hung out to dry and run blocking is even worse than a Gabbert future.

[Matthean]

Could be Seattle @ Washington for round 1.

[tucker rocky]

I don't know like porn I know it when I see it.

what?!? :confused:

[Desnudo]

what?!? :confused:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

[MizzouRah]

Seattle is as hot a team as I have ever seen.

Yes they are, and beating them at home is one heck of a task.

[Matthean]

Yes they are, and beating them at home is one heck of a task.

The problem being if SF wins next week, they are a 5th seed.

[Desnudo]

On the road they've always played teams close and lately they've been winning. I don't think it's that big of an issue. Larger issue is that hgh suspension thing.

[kingfc22]

The amount of injuries to the Niners this game is more troubling than the likely loss.

[Glengoyne]

what?!? :confused:

Punctuation is your friend, but apparently not his.

[Desnudo]

Comma

[kcchief19]

You have got to be kidding. Even the guy who fucked him over, good ol' Rex, commented about how hard Tebow worked.

You really think that wasn't damage control after the entire team and the coaching staff backed over Tebow in the press anonymously? It sure sounded like that to me.

Among the many, well-documented knocks on Tebow are that he has poor mechanics and refuses to fix them. Based on what we've seen on the field, those accusations fit. Are you telling me that you have seen an improved Tebow this year, as in he is actually getting better? As bad as the Jets are this year, wouldn't they be playing him if he earned it and showed skills?

Are you also defending the reports that he asked not to play the Wildcat today? Does anyone respect a guy who is so pissy about playing time that he essentially refuses to play?

Tim Tebow of New York Jets asked to be left out of Wildcat, sources say - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8776088/tim-tebow-new-york-jets-asked-left-wildcat-sources-say)

[kcchief19]

If I was a jags WR I would demand a trade if they add Tebow. A life of getting hung out to dry and run blocking is even worse than a Gabbert future.
That's only on crossing routes. Tebow is master of the deep ball so badly underthrown that it is completed because the defensive back doesn't adjust because the ball was so underthrown. Thomas lived off that last year in Denver.

[RedKingGold]

The Seahawks are just making every crazy catch, getting all the bounces. Just incredible.

Not to take anything away from the Seahawks, I knew they'd be trouble the day they named Wilson their starting QB.

[tucker rocky]

Could be Seattle @ Washington for round 1.

Basically, Wisconsin vs Baylor in ROY Bowl?

[Desnudo]

That's only on crossing routes. Tebow is master of the deep ball so badly underthrown that it is completed because the defensive back doesn't adjust because the ball was so underthrown. Thomas lived off that last year in Denver.

The Seahawks are just making every crazy catch, getting all the bounces. Just incredible.

Not to take anything away from the Seahawks, I knew they'd be trouble the day they named Wilson their starting QB.

Except the fumble and lucky INTs

[rowech]

You really think that wasn't damage control after the entire team and the coaching staff backed over Tebow in the press anonymously? It sure sounded like that to me.

Among the many, well-documented knocks on Tebow are that he has poor mechanics and refuses to fix them. Based on what we've seen on the field, those accusations fit. Are you telling me that you have seen an improved Tebow this year, as in he is actually getting better? As bad as the Jets are this year, wouldn't they be playing him if he earned it and showed skills?

Are you also defending the reports that he asked not to play the Wildcat today? Does anyone respect a guy who is so pissy about playing time that he essentially refuses to play?

Tim Tebow of New York Jets asked to be left out of Wildcat, sources say - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8776088/tim-tebow-new-york-jets-asked-left-wildcat-sources-say)

There reached a point the Jets became scared of playing Tebow. If they had played him and he had done well the coaching staff and management would have had a lot to answer for. Would have had the potential to cost people their jobs.

[Desnudo]

That's only on crossing routes. Tebow is master of the deep ball so badly underthrown that it is completed because the defensive back doesn't adjust because the ball was so underthrown. Thomas lived off that last year in Denver.

I'm pretty sure he was at least worth a look based on how shit Sanchez was. I mean Sanchez was terrible. Also the Jets TRADED for him.

[EagleFan]

Since jumping to a 31-3 lead over the Patriots last week the 49ers have been outscored 69-16 (and still counting).

[kingfc22]

Since jumping to a 31-3 lead over the Patriots last week the 49ers have been outscored 69-16 (and still counting).

Goes to show how important Justin Smith is to this defense

[Desnudo]

Wilson , comma, pretty good

[Suburban Rhythm]

Each time a Harbaugh loses, an angel gets it's wings.

[mauchow]

I've been rooting for the Seahawks all year and obviously a big Wilson fan but that Packer win has avoided what could have been some pretty big playoff implications going into the final week of the season.

They could have been 9-6 going into the final week. (I know the whole season could be different...)

[mauchow]

Kaep has the art of the slide down at least.

[Buccaneer]

Basically, Wisconsin vs Baylor in ROY Bowl?

:confused: Luck just set the rookie passing record and turned around a team that was 2-14 last season.

[Abe Sargent]

:confused: Luck just set the rookie passing record and turned around a team that was 2-14 last season.

He "turned around" a team that had high records for years and years prior to that one season and had a lot of talent, and was reinvigorated by casting off a lot of the aged dead weight. It;s not like he turned around a perennial 8-8 club or a annual losing club like the Bills, Chiefs or Jags.

Luck has done some great things, but let's not overemphasize what he did. RGIII and Wilson both should get more credit, to my mind, for their rookie seasons. I rank them RGIII, Wilson, Luck in that order.

[Atocep]

He "turned around" a team that had high records for years and years prior to that one season and had a lot of talent, and was reinvigorated by casting off a lot of the aged dead weight. It;s not like he turned around a perennial 8-8 club or a annual losing club like the Bills, Chiefs or Jags.

Luck has done some great things, but let's not overemphasize what he did. RGIII and Wilson both should get more credit, to my mind, for their rookie seasons. I rank them RGIII, Wilson, Luck in that order.

The Colts pretty much completely cleaned house. They rank 29th in average age weighted by snaps for their offense; slightly younger than the Redskins. This is almost a completely different team than the one that was winning during the Manning era. Even the most die hard of Colts fans probably thought they were at a minimum 2-3 years away from sniffing the playoffs.

I think what RGIII and Russell Wilson have accomplished is incredibly impressive, but Luck really hasn't had the offense simplified for him much whereas Wilson was handled with kid-gloves the early part of the season and Shanahan has a strong track record of working with QBs. Luck and RGIII have both been leaned on much more heavily than Wilson to win games for their team and Luck has done it during a coaching change.

I don't know how I'd rank them at this point, but in the big picture I strongly believe what Luck has done as at least as impressive as what RGIII and Wilson have done.

[MizzouRah]

The problem being if SF wins next week, they are a 5th seed.

Bad for them, I think.. still could be a dangerous team though.

[gstelmack]

Let's look at the QB stats if we're going to debate them for rookie of the year. This doesn't include late comebacks where I think Wilson gets the edge, but my initial impression is that Luck has a lot of yards because he throws a lot, but has also turned the ball over quite a bit. The big surprise with Wilson and RGIII is that they AREN'T turnover machines as rookies, which I think gives them a boost. But on to stats:

<table style="width: 1056pt; border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0" width="1408"> <colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" span="22" width="64"> <tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" height="20" width="64">Player</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358473126_1734" class="xl66" width="64">G</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">GS</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Comp</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Att</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">%</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Yds</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Avg</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">TD</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">INT</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Sck</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">SckYd</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Rat</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Ratt</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Ryds</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Ravg</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">RTD</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Fum</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">FumL</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Att/INT</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Att/Sak</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl66" width="64">Att/TD</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">RGIII</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64"> 14
</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358203081_1738" class="xl63" width="64">14</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358203081_1726" class="xl63" width="64">249</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358203081_1741" class="xl63" width="64">375</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">66.4</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl64" width="64">3,100</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">8.3</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">20</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">5</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358203081_1735" class="xl63" width="64">29</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">204</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">104.1</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">114</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">752</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">6.6</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">6</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">12</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">2 </td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">75</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">13</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">19</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Luck</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">15</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358473126_1734" class="xl63" width="64">15</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">325</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">599</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">54.3</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl64" width="64">4,183</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">7</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">21</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">18</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">40</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">239</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">75.6</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">57</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">254</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">4.5</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">5</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">10</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">5</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">33</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">15</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">29</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td style="border: 0px black; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" height="20">Wilson</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">15</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" id="yui_3_5_0_2_1356358526450_1726" class="xl63" width="64">15</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">237</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">374</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">63.4</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl64" width="64">2,868</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">7.7</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">25</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">10</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">27</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">162</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">98</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">84</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">431</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">5.1</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">3</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">5</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl63" width="64">3</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">37</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">14</td> <td style="border: 0px black; width: 48pt; background-color: transparent;" class="xl65" width="64">15</td> </tr></tbody></table>
RGIII is great at avoiding INTs, Wilson a hair better than Luck. RGIII and Wilson have better completion percentages, yards per attempt, and are better runners. The only place Luck comes out on top is total yards and a slight edge on avoiding sacks. Where he may get the nod is his team is the most surprising, and he's the leader of the team, so he gets credit there. But Wilson and RGIII are off to the playoffs as well (RGIII may miss out, but if he goes he's a division winner, unlike the two wildcards for the other teams), and Wilson just dismantled one of the better teams in the NFL.

The Colts' only wins of note were very early wins over Minnesota in week 2, and Green Bay in week 4, before either team hit any kind of stride. Maybe we count Miami in week 9 as their best win. Otherwise they've beat up on the lower half of the NFL, splitting with the Jaguars, beating the Titans twice, the Browns, the Bills, the underachieving Lions, and the Chiefs. RGIII is on a 6-win streak that has included wins over the Cowboys, Giants, and Ravens. Wilson has beat the Patriots, Minnesota when they were starting to come together, the Bears, and last night destroyed the 49ers. Over the last 3 weeks, the Wilson led offense has scored 150 points.

Put me in the camp of considering Luck third in this. I might almost give the nod to Wilson as the 3rd round pick who no one thought could do this, but RGIII seems to be having the best season right now.

[Buccaneer]

That makes sense then. I didn't realize Luck's Comp% was pretty low.

[Desnudo]

Plus Seattle's strength of victory is the best in the league

[MIJB#19]

Where would you rank Luck, Wilson and RGIII on the 'down by 4 with 2 minutes left, stuck at their own 10 with no timeouts remaining' argument?

Additionally, unlike Wilson and RGIII, Luck had to work with an offense without a running game. How does that factor into the debate?

[Desnudo]

I would much rather have rg iii or wilson in a must win game if my life depended on it.

And the colts had the easiest schedule in the league and have the point differential of a much much worse team. I think Luck will be good, but if you've watched all three I don't see how you could say he's nearly as polished as rg III or Wilson. If he was picked in the 3rd round and there wasn't this manning replacement story you would hardly be talking about him.

Plus how many of his near league leading ints put the colts in a position where they had to come back against the likes of the chiefs or other dregs?

[gstelmack]

Where would you rank Luck, Wilson and RGIII on the 'down by 4 with 2 minutes left, stuck at their own 10 with no timeouts remaining' argument?

Wilson:


Seattle Seahawks at 03:40 <!--START of play content in the quarter-->
1-10-SEA 3 (3:40) 3-R.Wilson pass incomplete deep middle to 86-Z.Miller.
2-10-SEA 3 (3:35) 3-R.Wilson pass short left to 85-A.McCoy to SEA 14 for 11 yards (53-N.Roach). Penalty on CHI-90-J.Peppers, Neutral Zone Infraction, declined.
1-10-SEA 14 (3:28) 3-R.Wilson pass short right to 24-M.Lynch to SEA 24 for 10 yards (33-C.Tillman). FUMBLES (33-C.Tillman), recovered by SEA-3-R.Wilson at SEA 21. 3-R.Wilson to SEA 21 for no gain (54-B.Urlacher).
2-3-SEA 21 (2:45) (Shotgun) 24-M.Lynch left end to SEA 32 for 11 yards.
1-10-SEA 32 (2:14) 3-R.Wilson pass incomplete deep middle to 18-S.Rice (21-M.Wright).
2-10-SEA 32 (2:11) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson scrambles right end pushed ob at SEA 45 for 13 yards (54-B.Urlacher).
1-10-SEA 45 (2:01) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson scrambles left end ran ob at CHI 49 for 6 yards (90-J.Peppers).
Two-Minute Warning
2-4-CHI 49 (1:55) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to 18-S.Rice.
3-4-CHI 49 (1:47) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass short middle to 89-D.Baldwin to CHI 43 for 6 yards (55-L.Briggs). PENALTY on SEA-68-B.Giacomini, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 49 - No Play.
3-14-SEA 41 (1:41) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass short middle to 89-D.Baldwin to CHI 48 for 11 yards (99-S.McClellin).
4-3-CHI 48 (1:11) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass short middle to 86-Z.Miller to CHI 41 for 7 yards (54-B.Urlacher).
1-10-CHI 41 (:43) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass deep middle to 18-S.Rice to CHI 14 for 27 yards (24-K.Hayden).WATCH HIGHLIGHT (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012120200/2012/REG13/seahawks@bears#contentId=0ap2000000105192)
Timeout #2 by SEA at 00:32.
1-10-CHI 14 (:32) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass short left to 81-G.Tate for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Assistant challenged the runner broke the plane ruling, and the play was Upheld.WATCH HIGHLIGHT (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012120200/2012/REG13/seahawks@bears#contentId=0ap2000000104224)
Timeout at 00:24.
4-S.Hauschka extra point is GOOD, Center-49-C.Gresham, Holder-9-J.Ryan.

[Matthean]

Wilson just dismantled one of the better teams in the NFL.

He was asked to throw all of 21 passes. The team ran the ball 39 times for 176 yards. Wilson threw for 170. I don't doubt he's a star in the making, but he wasn't even asked to do half of the work if you factor in his 6 rushes.

[Matthean]

Wilson:

It's not like Luck isn't known for his heroics either, see Lions game.

[Desnudo]

He was asked to throw all of 21 passes. The team ran the ball 39 times for 176 yards. Wilson threw for 170. I don't doubt he's a star in the making, but he wasn't even asked to do half of the work if you factor in his 6 rushes.

Did you watch the game?

[MIJB#19]

Playoffs scenarios for week 17. For teams that play in the 4:25 or 8:20 slot, I listed results of 1:00 slot teams first.

Atlanta
#1 seed

Baltimore
BAL win + NE loss => #3 seed
BAL win + NE win/tie => #4 seed
BAL loss/tie => #4 seed

Chicago
CHI win + MIN loss/tie => #6 seed
CHI win + MIN win => OUT
CHI tie + MIN loss => #6 seed
CHI tie + MIN win/tie => OUT
CHI loss => OUT

Cincinnati
#6 seed

Dallas
DAL win => #4 seed
DAL loss/tie => OUT

Denver
HOU win + DEN win/tie => #2 seed
HOU win + DEN loss + NE loss/tie => #2 seed
HOU win + DEN loss + NE win => #3 seed
HOU tie + DEN win => #1 seed
HOU tie + DEN tie => #2 seed
HOU tie + DEN loss + NE loss/tie => #2 seed
HOU tie + DEN loss + NE win => #3 seed
HOU loss + DEN win/tie => #1 seed
HOU loss + DEN loss + NE loss/tie => #2 seed
HOU loss + DEN loss + NE win => #3 seed

Green Bay
GB win => #2 seed
GB tie + SF loss/tie => #2 seed
GB tie + SF win => #3 seed
GB loss + SF loss + SEA loss/tie => #2 seed
GB loss + SF win/tie => #3 seed
GB loss + SF loss + SEA win => #3 seed

Houston
HOU win => #1 seed
HOU tie + DEN loss/tie => #1 seed
HOU tie + DEN win => #2 seed
HOU loss + NE loss/tie + DEN loss => #1 seed
HOU loss + NE loss/tie + DEN win/tie => #2 seed
HOU loss + NE win + DEN loss => #2 seed
HOU loss + NE win + DEN win/tie => #3 seed

Indianapolis
IND win/loss/tie => #5 seed

Minnesota
CHI loss + NYG loss/tie + MIN win/tie => #6 seed
CHI loss + NYG loss/tie + MIN loss + DAL loss/tie => #6 seed
CHI loss + NYG loss/tie + MIN loss + DAL win => OUT
CHI loss + NYG win + MIN win/tie => #6 seed
CHI loss + NYG win + MIN loss => OUT
CHI tie + MIN win/tie => #6 seed
CHI tie + MIN loss => OUT
CHI win + MIN win => #6 seed
CHI win + MIN loss/tie => OUT

New York Giants
NYG win + CHI loss + MIN loss + DAL loss/tie => #6 seed
NYG win + CHI loss + MIN loss + DAL win => OUT
NYG win + CHI loss + MIN win/tie => OUT
NYG win + CHI win/tie => OUT

San Francisco
SF win + GB loss/tie => #2 seed
SF win + GB win => #3 seed
SF tie + GB loss => #2 seed
SF tie + GB win/tie => #3 seed
SF loss + SEA loss/tie => #3 seed
SF loss + SEA win => #5 seed

Seattle
SEA win + SF loss + GB loss => #2 seed
SEA win + SF loss + GB win/tie => #3 seed
SEA win + SF win/tie => #5 seed
SEA loss/tie => #5 seed

Washington
CHI loss + MIN loss + WAS win/tie => #4 seed
CHI loss + MIN loss + WAS loss => #6 seed
CHI loss + MIN win/tie + WAS win/tie => #4 seed
CHI loss + MIN win/tie + WAS loss => OUT
CHI win/tie + WAS win/tie => #4 seed
CHI win/tie + WAS loss => OUT

[Matthean]

Did you watch the game?

No, but did he come on to block the FG, or help hold Kaepernick to 19 of 36 passing? All I'm saying is Luck doesn't get the benefit of being on the 4th best rushing team or having the best scoring defense. Wilson has both. Indy on the other hand has the 22nd rushing attack and the 26th scoring defense while playing a much crappier schedule. Let's also not forget Indy had the 23rd scoring defense even with Manning so none of this rose colored Indy has always been awesome stuff. They were clearly on a downswing and needed an overhaul for a reason. Manning getting hurt just accelerated the process.

[Wolfpack]

Luck's been a great QB so far, definitely worth the #1 that the Colts used on him. He's also been very clutch and has all the stats to support him. However, the knock I have against him is that he almost throws himself out of games that he has to turn around and win. Yes, he has to throw a lot just because the Colts can't win any other way, but I've not really seen very many superior game performances from him. He's excelled at saving himself and his team, though. With all the success in spite of the INTs, it does indicate he's got the right temperament (no memory) to handle all the adversity.

RGIII is probably the best all-around player of the three with the ability to run and throw in all situations and produce a possible touchdown on any play where he's the focus. He's probably also been the one who's played the most consistent from beginning to end.

Wilson has probably had the most help from his teammates of the three, especially early on when they were trying not to force him to do too much. Seattle's defense kept them in a lot of games when the offense had difficulty until they found some way to get themselves in a position to win. Lately, though, everything for Seattle's been clicking. Wilson doesn't have the numbers, but he has probably the best intangible qualities of the three and he probably landed in the best situation for him: small media market where there was little outside pressure on the staff on how to work with him, an offense with a strong running back and decent receivers, a ferocious defense, and a lack of an incumbent QB except by dint of contract signing which gave him enough of a chance to get the job in training camp.

Based on that, I'm leaning to RGIII as the ROY to this point, which is hard to say because I'm very solidly in Wilson's camp (fellow alum and all) and enjoy watching him play. With the Panthers having another poor year, I've temporarily become a Seahawk supporter because of him.

[cuervo72]

Re: scenarios. I know this is quibbling, but CHI/MIN really don't have anything to do with WAS and the #4 seed. :)

Re: Luck/RGIII. I'm biased having seen more WAS games and living in the general vicinity. But it seems to me that the IND turnaround, while impressive, isn't really a miraculous turnaround of a 2-14 team, as they weren't really a 2-14 team. I mean, they essentially tanked by not playing a QB worth crap. They've exceeded expectations, but I don't think the increase in wins tells the entire story. Oh, they're also -42 on point diff, so I think they've been really fortunate.

The Redskins...I'm still wondering exactly how they're doing what they're doing. Their O-line by all rights shouldn't be any good. I don't know if the 6th-round Morris is the real deal or not. They lost their #1 TE and while their receivers are ok, I don't think they're any great shakes. Yet...damn, those points.

I still think their defense is shaky missing Orakpo and with a secondary that should really be exposed in the playoffs. They're on a nice streak, but it's been against some flawed (or downright terrible) teams.

[MIJB#19]

Re: scenarios. I know this is quibbling, but CHI/MIN really don't have anything to do with WAS and the #4 seed. :)I prefer the simple "WAS win/tie -> #4 seed", actually, but the games aren't played simultaneously, meaning the scenario for WAS is dependant on what happens with CHI and MIN first. It wouldn't surprise me if WAS has made the playoffs before the WAS-DAL game kicks off.

Similarly, Minnesota qualifies with a win, no matter what Chicago will have done in the earlier timeslot.

[SteveMax58]

I think there are 2 questions worth asking on RGIII, Luck, Wilson.

1. Who is the ROY?

For me, thats RGIII. His game has made the Redskins' rushing attack even more potent due to the need to contain him if he has the ball. Couple that with his incredible accuracy & ability to read the defenses he has seen (so far) and I think the numbers are not lying to us on this guy.

Wilson has outperformed his draft grade and really does look like a star in the making. He also does benefit (imo) from the best supporting cast but that doesn't mean they are sniffing the playoffs without him.

Luck has by far the worst supporting cast as evidenced by the loss of Manning last year and the fact that they really didn't improve their roster for this year (cut ties with some vets that will give them cap space to get better inthe next few years but not this year).

2. Who would you rather have right now, knowing what you know right now?

I still go with luck here. All things being equal, his game is conducive to a long lasting career at the NFL level and his poor completion % means almost nothing to me. This is a kid that is asked to win every game with his arm and he is doing that. He certainly couldn't do that without a great WR like Wayne, but outside of that, this guy is the real deal and will be putting up Peyton-like numbers at some point. Though, I've always felt he will be just a notch below Peyton when all is said & done (not that you can't get to the HoF being a notch below Peyton).

RGIII is perhaps the most talented but his ability to stay healthy scares me. I see great things for this guy but only for a handful of years where everything clicks & he isn't on the sideline. We see the same issues of longevity at HB and while he isnt running 20+ times a game, he's dropping back with the ball & getting hit some number of times in addition to his 5-10 carries in a game. Defenses will make a point to hit him as he continues to run those option fakes and will eat a 30 yd gain on the HB to rattle the QB.

Wilson has a real knack for running when he needs to, but only when he doesn't need to take a hit to do so. He has a healthy "fear" (for lack of a better term) of getting clobbered and I think it will serve him well if he keeps it. Having said that, I see him as a productive QB but not somebody that can make a bad team a playoff team, like I see the other 2.

[Abe Sargent]

Wilson impressed me so much last night with his smartness as a QB. For example, on s2nd and long, he rushed and slid, only getting to 3 and 1, but saved himself, rather than crashing into a defender and getting the first down - saving himself a major hit. They picked up 3rd and 1. He had a lot of smart 3rd down conversions all over the place to sustain long drives. The guy has a lot of football intelligence, and that really attracts me to him. He has done for the Seattle in part because he's aware and sharp at a vet level.

[RainMaker]

While I'm rooting for the Bears to get in, I won't be that upset if they miss out. The team really isn't that good and will get clobbered by either San Fran or Green Bay in the 1st round. While I like Lovie Smith, he probably needs to move on as they just can't compete with elite teams with horrible offenses every year. He's shown he is incapable of putting together a good one.

[Atocep]

While I'm rooting for the Bears to get in, I won't be that upset if they miss out. The team really isn't that good and will get clobbered by either San Fran or Green Bay in the 1st round. While I like Lovie Smith, he probably needs to move on as they just can't compete with elite teams with horrible offenses every year. He's shown he is incapable of putting together a good one.

I'm not much of a Lovie fan. I've gotten to the point where I have a hard time even watching Bears games because Lovie-ball is boring and stale. He has never taken a risk and it almost seems like he coaches for 8-8 or 9-7 seasons.

Tice was a terrible hire (as expected) as offensive coordinator and Lovie really hasn't shown the ability to make the correct hire for that spot.

For those wondering here are the Bears weighted offensive rankings under Lovie:

2004 - 32nd
2005 - 27th
2006 - 26th
2007 - 26th
2008 - 23rd
2009 - 28th
2010 - 25th
2011 - 31st
2012 - 22nd

If the Bears miss the playoffs this year they'll be the 2nd time to miss the playoffs after starting 7-1 and that will be 5 of 6 years since the Super Bowl trip. I'm hoping Emery has the power and the desire to clean house this offseason, but considering the McCaskeys are the ones that wield the power in the Bears organization I fully expect someone like Norv Turner will be our next coach.

[Atocep]

As a side note, a friend of mine is a big Bears fan and was a huge Lovie supporter until the end of last season. When I was bitching about the offense last season he pointed out (just as Lovie did) that the team rushed for more than 2k yards. I then pointed out that the Saints did as well while also managing to throw for more than 5k. He didn't understand how that was possible. That is also the point when I was finally able to get him to realize just how far behind the rest of the league the bears are offensively.

[Desnudo]

No, but did he come on to block the FG, or help hold Kaepernick to 19 of 36 passing? All I'm saying is Luck doesn't get the benefit of being on the 4th best rushing team or having the best scoring defense. Wilson has both. Indy on the other hand has the 22nd rushing attack and the 26th scoring defense while playing a much crappier schedule. Let's also not forget Indy had the 23rd scoring defense even with Manning so none of this rose colored Indy has always been awesome stuff. They were clearly on a downswing and needed an overhaul for a reason. Manning getting hurt just accelerated the process.

I figured you didn't because if you had, you wouldn't have made the 21 completion comment. Put luck up against the 49ers defense and let's see what happens.

[Jas_lov]

It's set up nicely for the Packers. Bye week, NYG are out, SF has to come to GB in January. Atlanta as a #1 seed doesn't scare anyone and nobody beats Rodgers in a dome in January. Seattle could be tough but Rodgers still hasn't let that failmary game go.