NFL Championship Round

[DaddyTorgo]

I meant the long odds portion.

lol oh duh. of course.

idk

[tucker rocky]

Pass play would've been the better option on 3rd and 2.

[DaddyTorgo]

Pass play would've been the better option on 3rd and 2.

I tend to agree. Just seemed like a run up the middle was a bad idea.

[jeff061]

I cringe every time I hear The Stones in a car commercial.

[Desnudo]

Have the rule of thumbs changed? I always thought you were supposed to let balls go inside the 10 on punts

[Desnudo]

No Talib is a problem

Arrington on smith is a problem

[DaddyTorgo]

No Talib is a problem

This. Fortunately them going into the wind for the 2nd quarter (and 4th for that matter) should help.

[Desnudo]

Fucking arrington

[DaddyTorgo]

fucking Arrington

[Desnudo]

You complete me

[DaddyTorgo]

grrrrrr

[EagleFan]

Hey diddle diddle, Ray Rice (started) up the middle...

[DaddyTorgo]

cannot afford these DB injuries...

[Desnudo]

Welkah!

[stevew]

I gotta say that Smith didn't have any turnovers in that game. They were slicing and dicing their way through the Niner D. I don't think Smith was the issue here.

He might not have been the issue, but continued Falcons failures have to be the responsibility of the head coach. He's average at best.

[Desnudo]

Did verizon make more than one commercial this year

[DaddyTorgo]

Welkah!
:D

[jeff061]

That's Wekler.

[DaddyTorgo]

Alright - time to punch another one in, then get another stop and I'll start feeling better about this game, even without Talib.

[DaddyTorgo]

2 minute warning already? da fuq?

[Matthean]

I gotta say that Smith didn't have any turnovers in that game. They were slicing and dicing their way through the Niner D. I don't think Smith was the issue here.

Lost leads of 17 and 20 points in two different games. You simply can't do that against teams like the 49ers or the possible Pats. If they smell blood, you tend to get screwed.

[DaddyTorgo]

woo - let's punch it in here guys!

[DaddyTorgo]

bah - they blew that one. he should have thrown it away, or called the timeout right after he slid down.

[Desnudo]

Terrible clock mgmt

[Warhammer]

That was a crappy slide by Brady. Looked like he was trying to spike Reed there.

[spleen1015]

Brady should have gotten a personal foul for trying to kick Ed Reed in the jiblets.

[jeff061]

That was a crappy slide by Brady. Looked like he was trying to spike Reed there.
It did, he's just an uncoordinated mess though.

[Glengoyne]

Terrible clock mgmt


Yup


So did Brady go Suh on that slide?

[rowech]

Brady should have gotten a personal foul for trying to kick Ed Reed in the jiblets.

Any of the other 21 players on the field and they would have but not golden boy.

[Desnudo]

I think the refs were as stunned as everybody else at the clumsiness of it

[DaddyTorgo]

Any of the other 21 players on the field and they would have but not golden boy.
:p

[Matthean]

I just get this feeling it is suppose to be S.F. vs. N.E. with the two powerhouses battling it out with a possible changing of the guard. S.F. just feels like they will be the dominate team once the Pats are officially killed off.

[Desnudo]

Which habaugh was the qb? Jim?

[DaddyTorgo]

I just get this feeling it is suppose to be S.F. vs. N.E. with the two powerhouses battling it out with a possible changing of the guard. S.F. just feels like they will be the dominate team once the Pats are officially killed off.

Who's killing off the Pats? :confused:

[spleen1015]

Which habaugh was the qb? Jim?

Yeah, Jim got the arm and John got the brain.

[larrymcg421]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Brady and the Patriots any more.

[Desnudo]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Brady and the Patriots any more.

You and my wife. Although probably for different reasons.

[Desnudo]

Will be interesting to see if the ravens run out of steam in the 2nd half

[spleen1015]

Will be interesting to see if the ravens run out of steam in the 2nd half

Yeah, just like they did against the Broncos.

[Galaril]

Who's killing off the Pats? :confused:
Every great team has their time especially dynasties like the Pats. Players get old or tragic injuries occur. I mean just look at the early 90s Celtics and Len Bias. Now an argument could be made the Patriots are and will for years continue to be the Yankees of the NFL winning at all costs which seems ironic considering the fan base of New England.

[Desnudo]

Yeah, just like they did against the Broncos.

That game would be the reason...

[DaddyTorgo]

Pats could easily lose this b/c of no Talib. EASILY.

[DaddyTorgo]

Every great team has their time especially dynasties like the Pats. Players get old or tragic injuries occur. I mean just look at the early 90s Celtics and Len Bias. Now an argument could be made the Patriots are and will for years continue to be the Yankees of the NFL winning at all costs which seems ironic considering the fan base of New England.

LEN BIAS!?!?!?!?

LEN BIAS!?!!?!?!

:(:(:(:(

That's like...illegal. You can't bring up Len Bias. Imma hafta go cry now.

[spleen1015]

DT, have you been drinking?

[Desnudo]

Every great team has their time especially dynasties like the Pats. Players get old or tragic injuries occur. I mean just look at the early 90s Celtics and Len Bias. Now an argument could be made the Patriots are and will for years continue to be the Yankees of the NFL winning at all costs which seems ironic considering the fan base of New England.

Win at all costs as opposed to what? This isn't the NAIA.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, have you been drinking?

Nope. I actually don't really drink anymore. Ever since I lost all that weight (and stopped drinking due to it being empty calories along the way), I'm a total lightweight.

Which is a HUGE change from the days when I used to be able to put down a full fifth of vodka a night.

[jeff061]

Every great team has their time especially dynasties like the Pats. Players get old or tragic injuries occur. I mean just look at the early 90s Celtics and Len Bias. Now an argument could be made the Patriots are and will for years continue to be the Yankees of the NFL winning at all costs which seems ironic considering the fan base of New England.

Pats already rebuilt, they got at least another 5 years in them.

[jeff061]

Also, I have no clue how you can compare a salary capped Pats to the Yanks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dirty Ravens team. That's their second personal foul for nailing receivers in the head.

And that murdering fuck Ray Lewis too.

[Desnudo]

Bernard Karmell Pollard

[kingfc22]

He led with his shoulder. Clean hit.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hernandez was totally being held there I thought...show me a replay. Looked like the DB had his arm around his waist.

Eh...okay I rewatched it...maybe not.

[Desnudo]

I think Vereen needs more of a shot based in last week.

[Matthean]

Pats already rebuilt, they got at least another 5 years in them.

Depends on when B&B want to call it quits. Let's be honest, the Pats haven't won a SB in 9 years. It won't be hard to take the throne from them if a team comes along and starts winning SBs.

[DaddyTorgo]

damnit Welker!!!!

[spleen1015]

I think the Ray Lewis hit to the head penalty was bullshit. She was going low to make the tackle and when Hernandez show him coming, he lower his head into Lewis'.

[kingfc22]

Probably would have been a flag if that was Welker receiving the punt and got touched.

[Abe Sargent]

Dirty Ravens team. That's their second personal foul for nailing receivers in the head.

And that murdering fuck Ray Lewis too.


Wow

[rowech]

Pats already rebuilt, they got at least another 5 years in them.

I don't see Brady playing another five years.

[DaddyTorgo]

How is THAT a flag? Show me a replay

[DaddyTorgo]

Aaah

[Desnudo]

Big gain always starts with a blitz

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh

[spleen1015]

Ravens need to target Pitta and Bolden. Deep passes to Smith aren't going to work in that wind.

[DaddyTorgo]

Grrrrr

[rowech]

I can't take any more of Nantz and Simms clear bias. That hit wasn't any different than the one versus NE on the last drive.

[Jon]

I can't take any more of Nantz and Simms clear bias. That hit wasn't any different than the one versus NE on the last drive.

I just said the same thing.......

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh holding

[spleen1015]

Patriots are 67-0 at home with Brady at QB and the lead at halftime....

[bob]

Report: Fan stabbed following Falcons loss | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/report-falcons-fan-stabbed-following-loss/nT3Nc/)

[Carman Bulldog]

Patriots just don't seem to be playing their 'A' game. Reminds me of the Jets game a few years back and last year's Super Bowl.

[DaddyTorgo]

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE...PASS DEFENSE GUYS!!!!!!

[EagleFan]

We need stronger knife control laws...

:devil:

[jeff061]

Patriots just don't seem to be playing their 'A' game. Reminds me of the Jets game a few years back and last year's Super Bowl.
Its not 2012 Patriot weather, think its hurting them. Hoping in fourth quarter tide changes with the wind.

[bbor]

I'm trying to visualize any scenario where the Falcons win and can't come up with one. Which probably means they'll win.


YAY!

[Desnudo]

Patriots in big trouble. Losing Talib has a huge cascade effect.

[RedKingGold]

If the Ravens score, they should go for 2.

[kingfc22]

Boldin just wiped those DB's off him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Pats could easily lose this b/c of no Talib. EASILY.

.

[Abe Sargent]

Two man up drives by baltimore. Good job@

[Desnudo]

If patriots don't score on this drive its game over

[EagleFan]

.

Because he would have helped their offense score more than 13 points?

[DaddyTorgo]

Ridley looks hurt.

[Abe Sargent]

Ouch

[kingfc22]

Damn. He was LAID out.

[Desnudo]

Refs losing control

[cuervo72]

I can't take any more of Nantz and Simms clear bias.

Been like that for years, IMO. They're basically the NE home crew.

[EagleFan]

Was he down before the ball came out?

[kingfc22]

Actually looked like it was more due to the way he lowered his head trying to engage the oncoming defender.

[Danny]

Need to see replay to gauge if ball was coming out not sure on first glance

[DaddyTorgo]

Was he down before the ball came out?

I thought maybe he might be. Looked like his full leg was laid out on the ground...which would equate to a knee.

[Dutch]

Patriots in big trouble. Losing Talib has a huge cascade effect.

Welcome to Aqib Talib....if he can find a way not to play, he'll find it!

[cuervo72]

It kinda looked like his own foot kicked the ball out of his hands. Didn't rewind to see if his butt may have been down.

[Danny]

Yeah was a fumble

[DaddyTorgo]

ballgame

[Dutch]

C'mon RAVENS!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

Shouldn't that have been a flag? He hit him in the head....

[Desnudo]

Tmq would be writing game over

[Dutch]

Ravens need a TD.

[RedKingGold]

Was that Pollard?

[Danny]

Shouldn't that have been a flag? He hit him in the head....

Runner is not a defense,ess player

[Desnudo]

Playing man on the goaline awesome

[DaddyTorgo]

Enough of this.

Time to watch something else.

[Dutch]

Damn, too easy. Joe Flacco's got that play on lock.

[Abe Sargent]

Nasty

[kingfc22]

Boldin doing his best to give the two week hype machine The HarBowl.

[Abe Sargent]

I had a high school football coach who believed that if a play worked, you kept runni ng it until it didn;t work -clearly the Ravens just did that again

[Dutch]

Enough of this.

Time to watch something else.

Nah, nah, nah, nah......nah, nah, nah, nah.......hey, hey, hey......GOODBYE!!!!

[cuervo72]

Don't let up. Still lots of time. Don't give them any hope, Ravens.

[Desnudo]

Nah, nah, nah, nah......nah, nah, nah, nah.......hey, hey, hey......GOODBYE!!!!

Troll much?

[Danny]

Flacco earning himself big time money outplaying manning and Brady in consecutive weeks

[StLee]

I would have bet a lot of money that the Ravens would not be AFC champions. Boy, I would have lost a lot of money!

[Dutch]

Troll much?

Only on special occassions. :)

[Crapshoot]

Jesus those hits are brutal to watch.

[Danny]

Still can't count out Brady and beli

[Desnudo]

Fucking pollard

[Abe Sargent]

Anybody who thinks this game is over is shitting themselves

[Desnudo]

Finally playing Vereen

[Dutch]

Still can't count out Brady and beli

If they can score here, they are definately still in it.

[Danny]

If ne does score Baltimore needs to stay aggressive

[Danny]

Big time stop

[Abe Sargent]

Brady has made some questionable calls today,and when was the last time you said that in the playoffs?

[TLK]

How do you not run for that?

[Desnudo]

Brady has made some questionable calls today,and when was the last time you said that in the playoffs?

He's been very up and down over the past several years - see taking a safety against the giants last year

[Crapshoot]

It's almost as if Brady thought he had more than 4 to get.

[bulletsponge]

once again the NE offense gets outplayed by defense in the playoffs

[Abe Sargent]

He's been very up and down over the past several years - see taking a safety against the giants last year

Yeah, i forgot that, good calll

[TroyF]

Man, what could have been. if the officials call clear PI on the pick 6 last week or Rahim Moore doesn't become a complete idiot with 30 seconds left, they would be out of the playoffs. Instead, they are putting together one of the great defensive performances in memory and are ready to go to the big game.

Holy crap. What a stunning game.

[kcchief19]

How do you not run for that?
He was a half-second too late. By the time he started to take off, he had no chance. The Ravens would have pile-driven him.

My least favorite matchups of the Super Bowl possibilities. Sad to see #88's career end on a day Ray Lewis makes it to another Super Bowl.

At least I have Aldon and Justin Smith to root for.

[Dutch]

Big time defense by the Pats...two incompletes and a 3 & out was more than you could've asked for.

[Abe Sargent]

My preferred match was Falcons - Ravens, but 49ers Ravens was my second choice, and I want the Falcons, Ravens, 49ers to win it all in that order.

[JonInMiddleGA]

One team in the AFC that could make me pull for the Patriots, so naturally they win.

About the only saving grace of this super bowl is that it isn't Saints-Ravens or Eagles-Ravens.

[jbergey22]

Interesting playcalling up 15

[Abe Sargent]

PICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK

[bulletsponge]

INT

[cuervo72]

*crazy Howard Dean yell*

[Danny]

Yes!

[Dutch]

HUGE pick. That's gotta be the knife in the heart of Brady.

[Abe Sargent]

Glad DT is not watching this anymore, he'd literally explode into a blood sausage right now

[Danny]

Still need s first down or two

[Desnudo]

Looks like the snitch gets one more shot

[Dutch]

Glad DT is not watching this anymore, he'd literally explode into a blood sausage right now

A dose of reality might toughen him up a bit. Missed opportunity.

[Danny]

Overall officials have done a nice job this game

[Galaril]

Who's killing off the Pats? :confused:

Apparently the Ravens.

[bbor]

NINERS!

[Scoobz0202]

So, where does this performance put Brady in the rankings now. Does it drop him out of the top five?







:)

[Coffee Warlord]

Har-Bowl!

[Danny]

Manning played s better game last week than Brady did today

[cuervo72]

Nantz and Simms sound so enthusiastic. Like they're officiating a funeral.

[Jas_lov]

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

[Abe Sargent]

Manning played s better game last week than Brady did today

More TDs, more turnovers. Not totally convinced that he did. About the same I reckon

[gstelmack]

Congrats to the Ravens, you outplayed the Pats today. I was worried early when the Pats kept moving the ball but not putting points up, and that bit them.

My only real gripe is that CBS decided to show that stupid Unicorn commercial instead of giving us a freeze-frame of the moment the ball popped loose from Ridley to see if the butt or left knee was down. I'll be looking for that shot from someone tomorrow doing CBS' job for them.

[cuervo72]

Can't let them go down the field too easy, defense.

[Crapshoot]

So, where does this performance put Brady in the rankings now. Does it drop him out of the top five?







:)

Not as good as Eli Manning /Lathum :D

[Dutch]

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

[Desnudo]

A dose of reality might toughen him up a bit. Missed opportunity.

As opposed to someone who pops out of the woodwork once their team gets ahead...

[Danny]

More TDs, more turnovers. Not totally convinced that he did. About the same I reckon

3tds and one fumble in regulation with losing two drives. 1st int still wasn't his fault

[Matthean]

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

I wonder how many other teams would be deemed the premiere team in the league for nearly a decade without a title.

[kcchief19]

What do people mean by knocking Brady and Manning down? Are you talking about their all-time ranking or ranking among current quarterbacks? Short of stabbing somebody outside the Super Bowl, there is nothing these guys can do to lower their all-time rankings -- their legends.

As for their contemporary rankings, Brady was one of the last four standing. Peyton took fluke team from a year ago into the AFC's No. 1 seed and saw his coach cost him a playoff game. How does that ding them?

Are either of these guys as good as they were five years ago? No, that would be impossible. But until they stop going 13-3 or 12-4, it's hard to bet against them. Are there better QBs in the league right now? If I had take a QB to led my team in 2013 for one season, I'd take these two guys first.

[bulletsponge]

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs. they and Mannings teams offense always has a bad game and they lose. its like a January tradition

[Abe Sargent]

3tds and one fumble in regulation with losing two drives. 1st int still wasn't his fault

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

[Dutch]

As opposed to someone who pops out of the woodwork once their team gets ahead...

You need a hug.

[kcchief19]

I wonder how many other teams would be deemed the premiere team in the league for nearly a decade without a title.
The Yankees.

[Danny]

What do people mean by knocking Brady and Manning down? Are you talking about their all-time ranking or ranking among current quarterbacks? Short of stabbing somebody outside the Super Bowl, there is nothing these guys can do to lower their all-time rankings -- their legends.

As for their contemporary rankings, Brady was one of the last four standing. Peyton took fluke team from a year ago into the AFC's No. 1 seed and saw his coach cost him a playoff game. How does that ding them?

Are either of these guys as good as they were five years ago? No, that would be impossible. But until they stop going 13-3 or 12-4, it's hard to bet against them. Are there better QBs in the league right now? If I had take a QB to led my team in 2013 for one season, I'd take these two guys first.

You obviously didn't read some people's posts after Denver lost last week

[rowech]

Are we ever going to realize home field doesn't mean squat when it comes to the NFL playoffs?

[Danny]

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

Ok manning 88 qb rating, Brady 64. Stats are stats

[Dutch]

By that extension was the batted pass to the hands of a defender really Brady's fault? I mean we could play that game all day long. Stats are stats.

It's a shared responsibility, but the QB does share in the blame, sure.

[Abe Sargent]

Ok manning 88 qb rating, Brady 64. Stats are stats
If that's not passing rating but the modified QB rating that puts Mannigns fumble against him then I'd by it. If it's just passer rating without that fumble, i don;t buy it.

[Danny]

I just thnk it's ridiculous the difference in reactions. Manning had hi team in a great position to win until the Morris blew that play. Brady never had his team in s position to win. Manning played better last week than Brady did this week, pretty easy to see that in my view

[EagleFan]

Brady just can't win the big one anymore... ex-elite?

[Matthean]

If that's not passing rating but the modified QB rating that puts Mannigns fumble against him then I'd by it. If it's just passer rating without that fumble, i don;t buy it.

Well, how about 5 times inside the 25 with 1 TD.

[JonInMiddleGA]

At least we know where Ray Lewis was during this incident.

Report: Fan stabbed following Falcons loss | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/report-falcons-fan-stabbed-following-loss/nT3Nc/)

[molson]

ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs. they and Mannings teams offense always has a bad game and they lose. its like a January tradition

Which teams are guaranteed to win in the playoffs?

I'll take the pats last 12 years over any other team's. It's been great fun to watch them. Though it's also fun to see the ravens get there.

[bulletsponge]

Brady just can't win the big one anymore... ex-elite?

thats the trade off when you bang supermodel pussy. if he was banging some ugly fat chick hed still be hungry to win

[MizzouRah]

Thank you Ravens!!!

[gstelmack]

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

2 Super Bowl appearances, playoffs every year except when Brady was hurt (and that was a fluke tiebreaker setup, they went 11-5), a Welker drop and a helmet catch / near sack / uncalled holding away from winning those 2 Super Bowls, ...

any disappointment I feel is because they spoiled me rotten during the early 2000s. I'll take it.

[Galaril]

Thank you Ravens!!!

+1

[Scoobz0202]

I know there was some talk as to if Tony G was going to retire or not. While there has been nothing official his post-game comments certainly make it seem like he isn't coming back.

Maybe that will change when he thinks on it.

[Buccaneer]

Damn, didn't realize that the Pats haven't won since they were caught cheating...that has to knock Brady way down.

Are you really this stupid or is this the new act of yours?

[stevew]

Hopefully Welker is done with his double secret agent work and when he moves on the Pats might finally win something.

[Lathum]

If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.

That's a lot of losing for a team that you claim is superior.

[stevew]

http://nbcoutofbounds.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/harbaughsavedbythebell.jpg?w=320

I'm pretty sure that Screech is pulling for Cousin Jim over Cousin John

[BishopMVP]

Need to see replay to gauge if ball was coming out not sure on first glanceMy only real gripe is that CBS decided to show that stupid Unicorn commercial instead of giving us a freeze-frame of the moment the ball popped loose from Ridley to see if the butt or left knee was down. I'll be looking for that shot from someone tomorrow doing CBS' job for them.+everything... Yeah, it's retrospective to say that decided the game, but it was pretty obviously the pivotal play of the game to that point... and CBS goes to a 3 minute commercial and cuts back just in time for the refs announcement instead of showing ANY replays. (For the record, I don't feel it was clear enough to overturn the call on the field, but I disagree with the refs "Confirming" the call on the field... although that's based on a couple later replays and nothing in slow-mo at the time.)If people are going to take Peyton down a notch because he lost they have to do the same for Brady. Since Bellichick was caught cheating they haven't won a SB. They've lost twice in the SB with the superior team. They've now lost twice at home to the Ravens with the superior team. They also lost at home in the playoffs to Mark Sanchez with the superior team.For 4 years the Patriots were regarded as less talented and lucky, yet still won 3 SB's, and now they're a clearly superior team that loses every time. Maybe once you get down to the top 5-6 teams in the playoffs luck plays a bigger factor than anyone and their narratives want to admit.ive said it in the past, you can always count on NE to lose in the playoffs.Although, in their defense, the fact you can count on them being there is worth something...

[DougW]

The Lions own the Super Bowl. I am so sick of no one being able to take it from us.

Oh well, maybe next year you NFL clowns will put up a team that can beat us.

[Dutch]

Are you really this stupid or is this the new act of yours?

Buccaneer, you gotta keep it in perspective. Anybody that gets so mad at a football game that they call the other players cheaters and murderers deserves to get ribbed a bit. I enjoyed giving DT and his Pats the business because that.

[Carman Bulldog]

Well, how about 5 times inside the 25 with 1 TD.

One word...

Gronk.

With all this talk about legacies, the biggest thing to factor into the equation might be the fact that Brady's most valuable weapon (and a first team All-Pro) went down injured right before their next subsequent loss in three of the past four seasons. I'm not sure how the Giants would have done without Nicks last year, or the Packers without Jennings in 2010, or the Colts without Wayne in 2006 if they had each lost those respective players the game before. And while you can say that there are other good players, the coverages shift around more which means those next top guys (Cruz, Nelson, Harrison, etc.) have more attention and in turn, less room to work with.

And while I'm aware of the Patriots scoring numbers this year with Gronk in the lineup as opposed to without, the fact is that he's arguably the biggest matchup nightmare in the league and (when healthy) the best overall player at his position.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but when you get to this stage (final 4, even final 8), luck plays a huge factor and the Patriots have been extremely unlucky over the past 5 seasons. I honestly can't remember team's losing offensive playmakers at this level and being successful.

[Kodos]

So is Tom Brady a choker?

(Sorry that I'm late to the discussion -- just finished watching the game this morning.)

[Matthean]

One word...

Gronk.

With all this talk about legacies, the biggest thing to factor into the equation might be the fact that Brady's most valuable weapon (and a first team All-Pro) went down injured right before their next subsequent loss in three of the past four seasons. I'm not sure how the Giants would have done without Nicks last year, or the Packers without Jennings in 2010, or the Colts without Wayne in 2006 if they had each lost those respective players the game before. And while you can say that there are other good players, the coverages shift around more which means those next top guys (Cruz, Nelson, Harrison, etc.) have more attention and in turn, less room to work with.

And while I'm aware of the Patriots scoring numbers this year with Gronk in the lineup as opposed to without, the fact is that he's arguably the biggest matchup nightmare in the league and (when healthy) the best overall player at his position.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but when you get to this stage (final 4, even final 8), luck plays a huge factor and the Patriots have been extremely unlucky over the past 5 seasons. I honestly can't remember team's losing offensive playmakers at this level and being successful.

Still kind of telling though. It would have been interesting to see what happens with Gronk being healthy and Talib finishing the game.

[Kodos]

Because no other teams have dealt with injuries to key players?

[Carman Bulldog]

Because no other teams have dealt with injuries to key players?

Every team deals with injuries. Ladarius Webb is the Ravens best corner and they've been without him most of the year. But there is a big difference between losing your best offensive playmaker (and the best player in the league at his position) the game before and "dealing with injuries."

[Buccaneer]

Just like last year where I think the difference was Hernandez's lack of mobility may have been the difference in the Super Bowl, this year it was Gronk's absence for a team that is built around a 2TE offense. May have been the difference in winning but certainly the difference in being shutout in the 2nd half.

[JediKooter]

Colts owner sent $8,500 to a fan who guessed the correct Ravens-Pats score | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/colts-owner-sent-8-500-fan-guessed-correct-145513461--nfl.html)

[albionmoonlight]

Gronkowski was a huge talent coming out of college. But he didn't play the year before he was drafted because he was injured. His injury risk is why the Pats got him in the second round instead of him going as a top-ten pick. And we saw some of that play out last season with him being injured for the Super Bowl.

So, I don't have a ton of sympathy for the argument that the Pats were sunk because their injury-prone player was injured. They may have wanted to run a 2TE offense, but that was a very risky gameplan around which to base the team's success. Part of successful planning has to account for the strengths and weaknesses of your team--including injury prone players.

Because I like watching great players, I hope that he dedicates himself to keeping his body in shape and re-defines the position over the next 10 years. But I suspect that within 5 years he'll be out of football and starting a successful career as a reality-TV and/or action movie star.

[Logan]

I also don't have much sympathy for the argument that with Talib out, they simply couldn't cover anyone. Or I should say...I understand the argument, but that's your front office's problem. It's not like Talib was a long-term fixture there that they could ever envision leaving the field. He's a guy they were able to acquire after week 8, when he was still serving a PED suspension and when Schiano and co grew tired of him. If you're relying on a trade deadline acquisition to have just an adequate secondary, you're in a bad spot.

[DanGarion]

Injuries happen. How a team overcomes them is part of the game. Look at the Niners, Smith went down and Kaepernick came in and succeeded. Justin Smith went down and it knocked the Niners out of home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

[Matthean]

I also don't have much sympathy for the argument that with Talib out, they simply couldn't cover anyone. Or I should say...I understand the argument, but that's your front office's problem. It's not like Talib was a long-term fixture there that they could ever envision leaving the field. He's a guy they were able to acquire after week 8, when he was still serving a PED suspension and when Schiano and co grew tired of him. If you're relying on a trade deadline acquisition to have just an adequate secondary, you're in a bad spot.

I'm kind of surprised a defensive coach with a yearly large haul of draft picks continues to have such a piss poor secondary. That has cost them SB wins more than anything.

[BishopMVP]

Gronkowski was a huge talent coming out of college. But he didn't play the year before he was drafted because he was injured. His injury risk is why the Pats got him in the second round instead of him going as a top-ten pick. And we saw some of that play out last season with him being injured for the Super Bowl.

So, I don't have a ton of sympathy for the argument that the Pats were sunk because their injury-prone player was injured. They may have wanted to run a 2TE offense, but that was a very risky gameplan around which to base the team's success. Part of successful planning has to account for the strengths and weaknesses of your team--including injury prone players.

Because I like watching great players, I hope that he dedicates himself to keeping his body in shape and re-defines the position over the next 10 years. But I suspect that within 5 years he'll be out of football and starting a successful career as a reality-TV and/or action movie star.I'm not sold on the injury-prone designation. I haven't delved too much into his college history, but I thought he had a back injury - which could be a serious, recurring problem, but has yet to be one in the NFL. Instead he had a gruesome ankle injury where any normal human would have torn multiple ligaments, and then a pretty freak forearm break. Maybe he really is injury-prone, or maybe he just got unlucky there.

I also think there is a difference between using injuries as an excuse, or as an explanation. Injuries are part of the luck factor in any year, (just like fumble recoveries, or opposing DB's deciding to allow last-minute hail mary's) and I know I'm certainly not claiming the Patriots deserved to win, or definitely would have with those two (three if you count Ridley due to us losing the ball due to his injury) players healthy. But yes, they would have changed the game (just like the Ravens having Lardarius Webb would have, or the 49ers having a healthy Justin Smith, etc), and given that the modern NFL doesn't allow you to stockpile depth injuries to important players can play an outsize role.

By the way, one thing I don't recall seeing mentioned almost anywhere when people are hating on Welker or calling him a choker for that drop - anyone want to place odds on him having a concussion then? He got rocked and took a few seconds to get up either the previous play or two before, and then he drops a really simple pass right in front of him... I doubt that's entirely coincidental.

[stevew]

Hernandez is more injury prone than Gronk IMO.

[BishopMVP]

Hernandez is more injury prone than Gronk IMO.Hernandez also has alligator arms, and loses 1-2 yards almost every time he catches a pass because he runs backwards to avoid getting hit head on. (I might not be his biggest fan.)

[Carman Bulldog]

When Gronk was coming out of college, it wasn't so much the "injury prone" designation that caused him to slide, it was, as BishopMVP pointed out, the back injury, which if I recall, was originally injured while lifting weights. That was followed by surgery causing him to miss a full season. There were also rumors floating around about possible spinal stenosis but I think those were shot down.

Regardless, the Patriots definitely got him where they did because of his injury history. However, I don't think it's fair to say they are reaping what they sow in this instance. I could see that argument if Gronkowski was having continual back issues, but these appear to be two separate freak incidents. It seems a lot like how Matthew Stafford got tagged with the injury prone label (and still carries it to a degree) from some freak isolated injuries in his first few seasons.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah, this happens lot, we tag someone with the injury prone label without really checking things out. Remember when Fred Taylor was Fragile Fred? That was disabused very quickly, but alot of people have that sort of thing going on.

[Julio Riddols]

Michael Vick, Austin Collie, Troy Polamalu.. Those guys are injury prone.

[Scoobz0202]

Miles Austin seems to be in that category :(

[DougW]

thats the trade off when you bang supermodel pussy. if he was banging some ugly fat chick hed still be hungry to win

Nah, it's the mansion and moat. If you have a moat you understand, if you don't then you can't understand. It's a moat thang.


Tom Brady’s crazy mansion cost $20 million … and it has a moat | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/tom-brady-crazy-mansion-cost-20-million-moat-024914957--nfl.html)

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