Storming the court?

[Lathum]

Coach K went a little off about it last night. So what say you FOFC. Is it too much, too littler, or just enough. Obligatory trout option available.

[spleen1015]

I think it has become too much. I also think it is ridiculous when players celebrate after a big hit and their team is down y 3 TDs. So, maybe I don't understand this generation?

Players have been hurt in the past because of it and I think it is only a matter of time before coaches or players get assaulted by fans when it happens.

[albionmoonlight]

When it was very rare and spontaneous, it was cool.

Now, when you see fans of the #23 team in the country planning to storm the court because their team is about to beat the #7 team in the country, it has just gotten silly and dangerous.

[Lathum]

When it was very rare and spontaneous, it was cool.

Now, when you see fans of the #23 team in the country planning to storm the court because their team is about to beat the #7 team in the country, it has just gotten silly and dangerous.

This is how I see it as well.

TCU beating Kansas is a legit reason to storm the court, but when a UVA team that has 19 wins and is getting one point at home storms the court that is absurd to me. It's a game they should win.

They were saying this morning on the radio Duke has lost 4 times on the road this year and been stormed each time, I would be annoyed also.

[panerd]

I guess I see the possible injury angle though I am not sure I have ever heard it actually happen but if I were coach K just use it as a badge of honor that everyone feels the need to rush the court against you. Play it up to your players as a sign of respect.

[Kodos]

IU has been stormed at least twice this year.

[spleen1015]

I guess I see the possible injury angle though I am not sure I have ever heard it actually happen but if I were coach K just use it as a badge of honor that everyone feels the need to rush the court against you. Play it up to your players as a sign of respect.

I believe there was a Baylor player who tore his ACL because he was overrun by court stormers a few years ago when Dakich was coaching there.

[Marmel]

I believe there was a Baylor player who tore his ACL because he was overrun by court stormers a few years ago when Dakich was coaching there.

Never happened. Nobody has ever been hurt. Court stormings are just one of so many things that makes college hoops great. Besides, it is not for any of us. It is for the students.

[spleen1015]

Never happened. Nobody has ever been hurt. Court stormings are just one of so many things that makes college hoops great. Besides, it is not for any of us. It is for the students.

Yeah, I am starting to wonder if it happened. It was mentioned on the radio this morning, but I haven't been able to find any information about it on the web.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Never happened. Nobody has ever been hurt.

Bullshit.

How about earlier this month in Ames?
Ref Hurt in Ames When Cyclone Fans Stormed Court After Kansas Upset - Ames, IA Patch (http://ames.patch.com/articles/referee-hurts-wrist-in-hilton-coliseum)

C'mon, you don't even have to look hard to find proof.

It is for the students.

Many of whom apparently aren't very bright.

[tarcone]

I have never stormed a basketball court. I have a football field a few times. Tore down the goalposts. Got my picture in the paper when I was on the cross bar.
My favorite storming the football field was when Iowa fans stormed the field at the Humphrey dome in Minnesota. Took down the goal post and carried it out of the building. Its pretty funny when the visiting teams fans do that.

I dont mind the kids storming the court. I read in SI, I believe, that it makes them feel part of a victory. They are young and full of excitement. Have at it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The answer to this criminal stupidity might just be following (of all people) the SEC model. Schools are fined 5,000 then 25,000 and then 50,000 for subsequent offenses.

But let's put some actual teeth in it, because that's just drop in the bucket money for big programs.

50,000 for the first offense and 250,000 for the second, a nice round 500,000 for a third offense ... per school, not per sport, along with a one year suspension for the AD. That should provide some motivation for adequate crowd control.

[britrock88]

Draconian much?

[Marmel]

I have never stormed a basketball court. I have a football field a few times. Tore down the goalposts. Got my picture in the paper when I was on the cross bar.
My favorite storming the football field was when Iowa fans stormed the field at the Humphrey dome in Minnesota. Took down the goal post and carried it out of the building. Its pretty funny when the visiting teams fans do that.

I dont mind the kids storming the court. I read in SI, I believe, that it makes them feel part of a victory. They are young and full of excitement. Have at it.

Nice story. I was only a part of 1 court storming in my college years. Sometimes we sit at home and see court stormings all the time, but most students are only in school for a handful of years and might only be part of a couple at most, so have at it! Seems like the players of the home team love it too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Draconian much?

Not at all, just trying to apply an adequate carrot & stick to the various jackasses involved in this sort of thing on both sides.

I'd also like to see every student identified expelled with immediate haste, along with the applicable criminal charges, but that's a matter for slack ass law enforcement, not the university proper.

For football, given the risks & costs associated with goal post vandalism, I'd add water cannons.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

It's one of those 'act like you've been there' things. I'm glad that Mizzou fans don't storm the court any more. As some have mentioned, the Virginia court storming was a bit surprising. I don't expect possible tourney teams to storm the court against any teams.

[albionmoonlight]

As a UNC guy, I am obligated to hate Coach K with the intensity of 1,000 suns. And I, of course, do. But his point here is actually pretty reasonable. He's not even saying don't storm the court. He's just saying give the visiting team a chance to get off the court before you do it.

[albionmoonlight]

Draconian much?

Jon's point is actually a pretty good one if you are serious about stopping it. Instead of trying to come up with blanket national solutions, simply give the schools the right incentives. They are in the best position to control their court and their fans. Let each school decide how best to handle the problem.

[BYU 14]

Hockey has it right, just throw Squid.

I think it is a bit much now, winning a tournament title or the NC, sure, but regular season games really don't warrant the degree it happens now. Eventually somebody will get hurt and sue the school and then they will start to look at security.

[molson]

I've never "stormed" the court, by I have wandered onto it several times after the initial wave was done at Syracuse, and onto the football field at Oregon. Syracuse fans did this with some regularity in the late 90s and it was criticized in the media - both because most of these were games we "should have won", and the whole danger/security aspect (and one kid did steal the shot clock one time). My thought at the time was, sorry, I didn't bring printouts of statistical analyses of both teams to calculate our odds of winning the game, and then confer with the fans sitting next to me to make a reasoned group decision about the value of the win and what type of celebration it warranted. I just got caught up in the moment and wanted to see what my friends were up to down on the court. I thought as a student, this was my court, I could linger on it after the game if I didn't act like an idiot. Oregon was the same kind of deal. I wasn't even really a huge fan of there's, but I was with a lifelong Oregon fan who just wanted to walk around on the field after a win against Michigan, so we did - and our way home was on the other side of the field anyway.

I understand coach K's point completely and if players are at risk and things are getting a little intense, I guess I can see cracking down somehow and imposing penalties. But at the end of the day, it's just a court or a field, and if you take out the charging/acting like an idiot/hurting people/stealing stuff angle, the court or the field starts to seem like a natural, central place for fans to mingle and congregate after the game. It doesn't really matter whether it was a game you "should" have won or not.

[PackerFanatic]

When it was very rare and spontaneous, it was cool.

Now, when you see fans of the #23 team in the country planning to storm the court because their team is about to beat the #7 team in the country, it has just gotten silly and dangerous.

Exactly my feeling. Of all the cases of it we have seen this year, only a couple should have been "legit" reasons to do so. I just really wonder what schools could even do to stop it. Even with more security, it is going to be hard to stop a pumped-up group of college students...

[heybrad]

For the football example... what's the cost to the school when fans are tearing down goal posts? I don't imagine they're taking their time and disassembling them properly. I would think based on some potential damage there a stiff penalty is reasonable.

[SirFozzie]

Draconian much?



Gotta remember who you're talking to. Jon isn't exactly into the gentle side of punishments :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For the football example... what's the cost to the school when fans are tearing down goal posts? I don't imagine they're taking their time and disassembling them properly. I would think based on some potential damage there a stiff penalty is reasonable.

Well, it was $5M in this case......

Sports | Patriot Fans Hurt In Goal-Post Mishap Are Awarded $5M | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19911214&slug=1323003)

Or three lawsuits in this case......

13 Hurt When Fans Storm Field, Rip Down Goalposts After Oklahoma St. Victory | Video | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/04/13-hurt-when-fans-storm-field-rip-down-goalposts-after-oklahoma-st-victory/)

[JonInMiddleGA]

From a 2009 article
-- In 2005, a University of Minnesota-Morris student died from head trauma after a goalpost was torn down.
-- In Cimino v. Yale University (1986), courts found institutional liability ... Evidence showed an insufficient number of security officers surrounding the goalposts, and the court decided Yale had failed to provide reasonable care. The plaintiff received $925,000.
-- In another case, Bourne v. Ball State University (2005), foreseeable risk was central in determining institutional liability. Investigators found that university athletics administration discussed the toppling of goalposts prior to the game, and that the scoreboard operator, a Ball State employee, included a pre-programmed message on the scoreboard that read: "The goalposts look lonely." Bourne, who was injured when a goalpost fell on his back, chose to settle with Ball State.

Athletic Management : Momentum Media (http://www.athleticmanagement.com/2009/11/01/split_on_the_uprights/index.php)

[britrock88]

Yeh, Jon, goal posts are indeed different. That's why we see the new foldable/retractable models developed and implemented. And pardon me for goading you a bit; I don't advocate letting things go on willy-nilly, but I think it might be most productive to channel the emotion underlying these events in a way that ensures safety rather than coming down on all involved for their indeterminate contribution to a little added risk/liability.

Albion, thank you for your UNC sentiment. I know in 7 years at UNC, I never stormed a court of any kind. Security just wouldn't have it. We stormed Franklin Street instead... I don't know what folks' thoughts are, however, about the costs/risks/etc. involved in having 10k students converge to close down a main intersection in the town grid, climb light/telephone poles, set things on fire in the street, etc.

No matter what the students' outlet (and I do feel they should have some outlet to celebrate what they feel is a big win), it seems prudent to me to have security (whether in-stadium or campus security) channel their efforts toward improving safety. For court-stormers, security could make a wall to allow the visiting team to escape. (Recall Roy leaving the court early at FSU a year ago...) In a town street, they should probably look for drunken types that are probably more likely to hurt themselves climbing or fire-jumping.

[saldana]

I thought it was ridiculous last night in Virginia, and a bit less so at penn state the other night, just cuz they are so bad this year.

I don't have a problem with it when it a highly significant moment for your team/school, like during championship week

My senior year, we made the tourney for the first time in school history, and we stormed the court...i was one of the first people out and ran over and picked up the guy that made the winning shot....and was promtly over run by dozens of other people that slammed into us..we were pinned to the floor at center court with thigh knee squarely jammed into his balls...wasn't exactly a great celebration, lol

[murrayyyyy]

It should never happen. I'll bet someone got hurt last night. Was it a player? Probably not. But you are going to tell me that one student didn't get hurt, accidentally punched, stepped on, etc in all that? Over a regular season game that 4 years from now no one can tell you that it was on a Thursday night in February...

Storm the frat house of whatever bar street you city has later that night. Don't storm the court where the odds are EVERYONE in front of you did not rush the court so odds are you are knocking people over in the stands too.

But we live in a society where people will do whatever it takes to get on TV/Sportscenter so it will continue to happen. If they don't show fans running on the field in MLB, why the hell do we celebrate it when it happens in CBB? ESPN will show it 100 times today...

[Chief Rum]

Side story. Had ESPN on last night and they were showing a long clip of Coach K bitching about this. Off to the side at the same time, my roommate happened to load a youtube video on her phone that had kinda sad music playing in it. She was kinda in the direction of the TV from my perspective, so it sounded like ESPN overlayed Coach K's bitch session with weepy music. Funny shit.

[Kodos]

I remember all of us going to Showalter Fountain after a big IU win in the NCAA tourney.

[kcchief19]

It's one of those 'act like you've been there' things. I'm glad that Mizzou fans don't storm the court any more. As some have mentioned, the Virginia court storming was a bit surprising. I don't expect possible tourney teams to storm the court against any teams.
The students would have against kU last year if Kimmie English and the other players didn't stop them. I loved it -- the final second is ticking off and English ran over to the Zou Crew and put up his arms to stop them. It was even greater than rushing the court. Unless a No. 1 kU team visits Columbia again, I don't see Missouri basketball rushing the floor again.

I've rushed the court/field once -- Bob Stull's last year at Missouri we beat the crap out of Illinois in the season opener, and we released some pent-up frustration. I helped push down the upright, but then ended up under a pile and the goal posts were on their way up the hill to Harpo's before we unpiled.

Missouri football rushed the field beating Oklahoma in 2010. That was another pent-up moment ... first time beating Oklahoma in forever, 7-0 and a win against Nebraska away from a potential national title bid, sold-out homecoming crowd. I imagine Missouri football will rush the field again if we beat a good SEC team at home. If Alabama or LSU comes in undefeated or Georgia or Florida are ranked No. 1 and we beat them we're rushing the field.

[kcchief19]

Don't forget this ...
Man in wheelchair joins N.C. State court rush after Duke win (VIDEO) (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/12/man-in-wheelchair-joins-nc-state-court-rush-after-duke-win/1828957/)

Can't actually blame it all on fans ... schools decided to let it happen. At the end of every Missouri game security and staff line the field/court to keep people off the field and they announce the penalties for rushing. For the Oklahoma game, the pulled security out of their.

For the game I rushed the field against Illinois, I was on the front row of a student section and I started talking to the state trooper in our section midway through the 4th quarter. I was an ad hoc cheer leader for my section, and I told the trooper we were going to rush the field and I didn't want anyone to get hurt. Near the end of the game all the troopers came down to line the field, and I kept talking to him.

He was on his radio talking to someone in the final seconds of the game. He's watching the field, I'm watching him. As Missouri takes a final knee, he puts his radio away, points to me, then points toward the goal post and the race was on.

[korme]

Not at all, just trying to apply an adequate carrot & stick to the various jackasses involved in this sort of thing on both sides.

I'd also like to see every student identified expelled with immediate haste, along with the applicable criminal charges, but that's a matter for slack ass law enforcement, not the university proper.

For football, given the risks & costs associated with goal post vandalism, I'd add water cannons.

you are the equivocal turd in the punch bowl

[molson]

Can't actually blame it all on fans ... schools decided to let it happen.

That's probably for the best depending on the circumstances. The worst thing that can happen is security deciding nobody's getting on the court and the fans deciding that they're definitely going on the court no matter what. At a Syracuse game I went to the PA announcer kept saying "don't charge the court, don't charge the court" as one game winded down, but then when it became clear that the kids were charging the court, he said instead, "please be careful if you're making your way onto the court." I thought that diffused things a little, it was no longer a banned activity that the kids were about to take part in, so I think that took the intensity down some. There wasn't a lot of running around, just walking and lingering. And since there was no rush to bust past security or anything, the players all had time to leave the area because everybody was just kind of methodically going through the available outlets to the court in single-file.

[tarcone]

At one game we rushed the field. Police were surrounding the goal post. It was the North end. The crowd kept recycling itself. You would be in the back of the crowd and then, all of the sudden, you were in the front facing the police. Then you went to the back. I guess we were waiting for someone to make the move. Then we got smart and ran down the field and got the other goal post, which wasnt protected. My friend got arrested that day for criminal trespass.

[finketr]

regarding the goal posts, i seem to recall that they used insta-collapsible goalposts.. On a hing at the base so they are on the field immediately after a game.

[BrianD]

I've never understood this type of celebrating. When my high school football team won the State Championship (not while I was playing), I smiled, gave a few high-fives, and went home. In this thread, we talked about rushing the court, rushing the field, tearing down goalposts, and downtown gatherings/vandalism/riots. It seems to be a natural progression, but I have never understood celebrating your team's win by destroying your field or town.

Mob mentality is pretty disgusting to me, so I avoid mobs whenever possible.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I've never understood this type of celebrating. When my high school football team won the State Championship (not while I was playing), I smiled, gave a few high-fives, and went home. In this thread, we talked about rushing the court, rushing the field, tearing down goalposts, and downtown gatherings/vandalism/riots. It seems to be a natural progression, but I have never understood celebrating your team's win by destroying your field or town.

Mob mentality is pretty disgusting to me, so I avoid mobs whenever possible.

:+1:
Maybe I'm crazy, but me cheering from the stands had little (no) impact on the outcome, so probably not entitled to be part of the celebration.

I'm 37, so maybe I'm just old. But the idea never appealed to me at 27 or 17 either.

Actually, I know I'm old, because I'm agreeing with some of what Jon is saying, though not necessarily to such an extreme degree.

[kcchief19]

Interesting tidbit ... Duke has lost 50 road games since 1997. Fans have rushed the court in those games 42 times. Yikes.

It would probably have been more efficient for Coach K to complain when the other team didn't rush the court. It's a testament to what he's built there that teams rush the floor any chance they can against Duke, but given how many times it has been done, it's nothing to be proud of, Rusty.

[JonInMiddleGA]

you are the equivocal turd in the punch bowl

I'm not supposed to say anything but I'll give you a hint: that ain't punch.

[spleen1015]

Interesting tidbit ... Duke has lost 50 road games since 1997. Fans have rushed the court in those games 42 times. Yikes.

It would probably have been more efficient for Coach K to complain when the other team didn't rush the court. It's a testament to what he's built there that teams rush the floor any chance they can against Duke, but given how many times it has been done, it's nothing to be proud of, Rusty.

I think he said something last night because there was an incident or 2 with some of the fans.

[stevew]

Storming the court in the NBA gets you a pretty large fine. Just embargo any fans that rush the court with a 1 year ban from the stadium.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Storming the court in the NBA gets you a pretty large fine. Just embargo any fans that rush the court with a 1 year ban from the stadium.

Not terribly recent, but not unprecedented.....

Fan Faces Suspension from Athletic Events - News - The Spectrum - The University of Buffalo (http://www.ubspectrum.com/news/fan-faces-suspension-from-athletic-events-1.1398274#.UTENtFfzk7s)

[cuervo72]

Eh, I'm pretty much in agreement with Jon on this one. Kids shouldn't be doing it - it's just a convenient excuse to act like an idiot.

[tarcone]

Eh, I'm pretty much in agreement with Jon on this one. Kids shouldn't be doing it - it's just a convenient excuse to act like an idiot.

Act?

[korme]

It's one thing to fine them or something but to suggest expelling a kid - come on

[Buccaneer]

:+1:
Maybe I'm crazy, but me cheering from the stands had little (no) impact on the outcome, so probably not entitled to be part of the celebration.

I'm 37, so maybe I'm just old. But the idea never appealed to me at 27 or 17 either.

Actually, I know I'm old, because I'm agreeing with some of what Jon is saying, though not necessarily to such an extreme degree.

Same here. But then again, I can't even fathom "fans" rioting, looting and vandalizing after a championship or whatever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's one thing to fine them or something but to suggest expelling a kid - come on

I've long held that there's far too many "students' who are just wasting space in college classrooms. Thinning the herd of the not-real-fucking-bright is a step in the right direction afaic.

And let's be blunt here: if you know that's the penalty for it (which under my plan would be quite clear) and do it anyway ... you ain't real fucking bright.

[korme]

God dammit that actually makes sense (your second point).

[MrBug708]

If you storm the Rose Bowl, the Pasadena Police might actually use their batons on you. You can prevent it if you want.

[stevew]

How about if we let Jermaine O'Neal punch anyone rushing the floor

[JonInMiddleGA]

How about if we let Jermaine O'Neal punch anyone rushing the floor

He's only one man, he can only do so much.

[Buccaneer]

I've long held that there's far too many "students' who are just wasting space in college classrooms. Thinning the herd of the not-real-fucking-bright is a step in the right direction afaic.


Let's start with athletes who have no business going to college. Hypocrite. :lol:

Seriously, one has to hae significant penalties (consequences) if you are going to affect change. Too many make excuses for the "youth" and therefore, bad behaviors could carry on as they get older.

[Lathum]

Bump

Thoughts on last nights storming?

If they really want to stop it start with banning the offenders from the arena for the first offense and being expelled for the second.

[stevew]

Jermaine O'Neal apparently can't get into game shape, but I'm sure he still has a right cross available.

Plus he never attended college.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bump

Thoughts on last nights storming?

If they really want to stop it start with banning the offenders from the arena for the first offense and being expelled for the second.

Bill Self needs to stop the bitching. He didn't call out his fans last year when they did the same thing to KSU in Allen Fieldhouse. Whether it should stop or not is another topic, but Self comes off like a total hypocrite in this case.

[cartman]

Bill Self needs to stop the bitching. He didn't call out his fans last year when they did the same thing to KSU in Allen Fieldhouse. Whether it should stop or not is another topic, but Self comes off like a total hypocrite in this case.

Don't let facts get in the way of your typical anti-Kansas rant. There was no storming of the floor in the game at Kansas last year. There was at the game at Kansas State last year as well.

Kansas at Kansas State (2/10/2014)
http://tucson.com/kansas-state-fans-storming-the-court-after-a-win-over/image_013ae9b6-98f6-11e3-9a6a-001a4bcf887a.html

[Logan]

Regardless of when else it may have happened, I haven't seen a coach getting pinned into the scoretable during any of 100 court stormings before. Security needed to do a better job protecting the players/coaches.

[Lathum]

Evan Cohen on MAddog radio had a really good rant about it this morning. His basic premis was it is the most obvious thing in the world that at some point someone is going to get hurt or some ugly incident will occur, then everyone will question why it has been allowed. It isn't a matter of if but when. Its like driving with no seat belt on, odds are nothing will happen, but eventually something will, so the obvious thing to do is wear your seat belt.

[cartman]

Bump

Thoughts on last nights storming?

If they really want to stop it start with banning the offenders from the arena for the first offense and being expelled for the second.

Don't have an issue with fans storming the court/field. The problem comes in when fans start targeting members of the other teams and intentionally create contact with them. That should be dealt with severely.

[panerd]

When I was in school I was involved in several football field rushes (the basketball thing seems like a somewhat more recent phenomenon). I will say as a college student the fear of "trouble" probably won't always stop a court rush but I will say that I had zero fear of the $10/hour orange/florescent yellow jacket security people while police officers with badges made me think twice. I don't know that Kansas State could have prevented the court storm but they could have at least put a couple of cops on Self and the Jayhawk players.