Toppings aside, what makes a pizza?

[BYU 14]

Had a debate on this today.

Forget the toppings, what is the one thing that makes a pizza good for you. I have always judge a good pizza by the sauce, though my friend made a pretty good argument for cheese today.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cheese can definitely make up for a multitude of sins

[TRO]

All about the crust. Without it, you need a fork.

Chicago vs Ny style isn't about toppings or sauce, it is about the crust style.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Tossup between the sauce & the crust. I went crust because when you have a fantastic crust I can forget about average sauce. The sauce could be amazing, but with an average crust it still tastes like cardboard.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

And the true measure of a pie is when it excels with just cheese. Anybody can pile the toppings on.

[DanGarion]

All the above.

[EagleFan]

It's about all three. A lousy one of any of the three will ruin it.

Case in point, Chicago deep dish style... pure crap.

Chucky Cheese cardboard with sauce and cheese.... pure crap.

Had pizza at someplace in Vegas that had good cheese, liked the crust but the sauce was actually bitter and ruined the whole thing.

Granted the cheese option is hard to really mess up.

[hoopsguy]

EagleFan is disqualified from posting on this topic.

[JAG]

Case in point, Chicago deep dish style... pure crap.

Have you ever had it in Chicago? Best pizza I've ever eaten is deep dish there.

[DaddyTorgo]

EagleFan is disqualified from posting on this topic.

Serious question here: Why do people from Chicago get all offended and defensive if people don't like deep-dish pizza? It's not like your city has nothing else going for it that you have to be so defensive over it.

[Lathum]

Chicago pizza is shit.

[Danny]

Sauce. Never had bad cheese on a pizza ( less good yes) so it was between crust and sauce. Great crust can certainly make pizza but bad sauce can ruin it the easiest so went with that

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'll say this about Chicago-style pizza: In Chicago it was quite good. Outside of Chi at a place that does "Chicago-style" it was meh at best.

I do happen to prefer Detroit-style deep dish though. It's more traditional & the crust is really good.

[Matthean]

Sauce. I think you will more likely get good crust with lesser sauce than good sauce with lesser crust. If people know how to make a good sauce, they can pull off crust. Plus, you can hide lesser crust with stuff like butter and garlic. You can can't hide bad sauce.

[sabotai]

Much like how the bread is what makes or breaks a cheesesteak, the crust will either make or break a pizza. I've liked some pizza with not so good cheese and sauce that was none too good. But I will never like a pizza that has terrible crust, no matter how good the cheese and sauce are.

[BYU 14]

I'll say this about Chicago-style pizza: In Chicago it was quite good..

This, having Pizza in Chicago was a foodie experience like no other for me, though we did find a place in NY that was pretty good too and in both cases it was the sauce that put it over.

[kcchief19]

All of above, so I voted trout. Even if one of the three is great, it can't make up for the others being mediocre. Great sauce and cheese can't save a crappy crust, great crust can't make up for crappy cheese. Sauce might seem to be the least important, but I've had shitty sauce on a great crust with awesome cheese and it ruined the pie.

There is only one jar sauce I'll use on a pizza, other wise I will make my own. I make my own crust, and usually use fresh mozzarella, aged provolone and freshly grated parmesan. Sometimes I'll grate an asiago, pecorino or fontina. A five-cheese pizza rocks.

If someone from St. Louis tries to tell you the only acceptable choose on a pizza is provel, punch them in the nuts or the ham wallet for me.

[bigdawg2003]

I'll say this about Chicago-style pizza: In Chicago it was quite good. Outside of Chi at a place that does "Chicago-style" it was meh at best.

I do happen to prefer Detroit-style deep dish though. It's more traditional & the crust is really good.

I'd never heard of Detroit-style deep dish until a Detroit-style pizza trailer opened next to a bar I frequent regularly in Austin.

Best pizza I've ever had in my life.

[MizzouRah]

I'm a sauce guy.. and plenty of it. It's a tough choice though, because you need good cheese and a great, crispy crust.

This is the greatest pizza I've ever had..

http://www.pirronespizza.com/

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Is that in a strip mall?

[Coffee Warlord]

Serious question here: Why do people from Chicago get all offended and defensive if people don't like deep-dish pizza? It's not like your city has nothing else going for it that you have to be so defensive over it.

Eh, every city has some level of this for things that they are known for. Particularly in the food category.

I actually don't give a shit. Personally, outside of Giordano's, I can't stand deep dish. Thin crusts for the win.

[molson]

I'll eat any pizza as long as its from Amy's Baking Company.

[MizzouRah]

Eh, every city has some level of this for things that they are known for. Particularly in the food category.

I actually don't give a shit. Personally, outside of Giordano's, I can't stand deep dish. Thin crusts for the win.

I'm not much on deep dish either.. but I love Giodano's when I get a chance to take a trip to Chicago.

[hoopsguy]

Serious question here: Why do people from Chicago get all offended and defensive if people don't like deep-dish pizza? It's not like your city has nothing else going for it that you have to be so defensive over it.

I would argue that there is a difference between not liking and calling out as "pure crap" in a question where Chicago pizza wasn't the topic and had not been mentioned before the post.

Further, I would suggest that finding EagleFan's opinion on pizza to be ill-founded has little to do with some larger theme of Chicago parochialism, regardless of what the city may or may not have going for it.

The comment was dumb without any of the extra context you are attaching to it.

I get that some people might have a type of pizza they prefer to Chicago-style deep dish. Especially if their exposure to it comes from some place labeled "Chicago-style" in the Deep South, for example.

But a blanket dismissal of that type of pizza in a thread that had not referenced Chicago-style pizza is the rough equivalent of me jumping in a "what makes art" poll and posting "Impressionists suck" ... were I to do that, I would expect some percentage of posters to dismiss my opinion on art. And I would not immediately question why people from France are so defensive of their art movement.

[Desnudo]

I like both deep dish and New York style. There's also a Greek style common in the Boston area. The argument over which is better always seems kind of forced.

[korme]

Crust is kicking ass and it is most important, but sauce is not far behind. Both are crucial.

[DaddyTorgo]

I would argue that there is a difference between not liking and calling out as "pure crap" in a question where Chicago pizza wasn't the topic and had not been mentioned before the post.

Further, I would suggest that finding EagleFan's opinion on pizza to be ill-founded has little to do with some larger theme of Chicago parochialism, regardless of what the city may or may not have going for it.

The comment was dumb without any of the extra context you are attaching to it.

I get that some people might have a type of pizza they prefer to Chicago-style deep dish. Especially if their exposure to it comes from some place labeled "Chicago-style" in the Deep South, for example.

But a blanket dismissal of that type of pizza in a thread that had not referenced Chicago-style pizza is the rough equivalent of me jumping in a "what makes art" poll and posting "Impressionists suck" ... were I to do that, I would expect some percentage of posters to dismiss my opinion on art. And I would not immediately question why people from France are so defensive of their art movement.

Valid points. I wasn't referring to you specifically, and hadn't considered the larger context of this thread (Chicago not having been mentioned before and all), but was genuinely curious from a general standpoint...like say if I meet someone from Chicago in real life and say "I don't like deep-dish pizza" they act like I've just committed a mortal sin.

[EagleFan]

I stand by my comments. Chicago style is pure crap. If you like it, that's your opinion. My opinion is that it is pure crap. Fucking deal with it or continue to cry about it. My opinion will still be that it is pure crap.

Pizza is hand tossed on a good crust with sauce that doesn't detract from it. It's hard to screw up the cheese part of the trio (but it can be done).

[fantom1979]

I'll say this about Chicago-style pizza: In Chicago it was quite good. Outside of Chi at a place that does "Chicago-style" it was meh at best.

I do happen to prefer Detroit-style deep dish though. It's more traditional & the crust is really good.

Where do you like to go? I have always liked Buddy's and Shield's. Loui's Pizza at 9 and Dequindre is pretty good as well. For a chain, I've always liked Jet's deep dish.

[Matthean]

I liked Buddy's when I was in Detroit. Jet's is alright. I prefer Deluca's here in Lansing although it isn't a chain. There's a brick oven style place on the north side that's rather good though.

[britrock88]

Where do you like to go? I have always liked Buddy's and Shield's. Loui's Pizza at 9 and Dequindre is pretty good as well. For a chain, I've always liked Jet's deep dish.

I'll second Jet's deep-dish. Need to make a point to have that more often when visiting Michigan in the future...

[Suicane75]

I would argue that there is a difference between not liking and calling out as "pure crap" in a question where Chicago pizza wasn't the topic and had not been mentioned before the post.

Further, I would suggest that finding EagleFan's opinion on pizza to be ill-founded has little to do with some larger theme of Chicago parochialism, regardless of what the city may or may not have going for it.

The comment was dumb without any of the extra context you are attaching to it.

I get that some people might have a type of pizza they prefer to Chicago-style deep dish. Especially if their exposure to it comes from some place labeled "Chicago-style" in the Deep South, for example.

But a blanket dismissal of that type of pizza in a thread that had not referenced Chicago-style pizza is the rough equivalent of me jumping in a "what makes art" poll and posting "Impressionists suck" ... were I to do that, I would expect some percentage of posters to dismiss my opinion on art. And I would not immediately question why people from France are so defensive of their art movement.


You know we talking about pizza, yeah?

[hoopsguy]

You know we talking about pizza, yeah?

Sorry. East coast pizza is the suxxor. Crust rulz!

[Blackadar]

I'll eat any pizza as long as its from Amy's Baking Company.

LOL.

---

The correct answer is crust. It's the only answer. You can make an excellent pizza without sauce (white pizza) or cheese (you can find cheese-less pizzas in the frozen food section of your supermarket). You can't make a pizza without a crust,. A sub-par crust kills the texture and/or flavor of the entire pizza.

---

As for Chicago pizza, it's ok. I always liked Uno's and other places that can make a flaky, deep-dish pizza crust. I prefer New York-style crust, but I enjoy both.

[Logan]

The correct answer is crust. It's the only answer. You can make an excellent pizza without sauce (white pizza) or cheese (you can find cheese-less pizzas in the frozen food section of your supermarket). You can't make a pizza without a crust,. A sub-par crust kills the texture and/or flavor of the entire pizza.


Perfectly stated and the exact argument I'd make, since I'm a big fan of white pizza as well as the grandma slices where you only get a sprinkling of parmesan cheese.

A crust too doughy, too thin, lacking flavor, or just cooked poorly will all hurt a pie.

[Abe Sargent]

I like black pepper on my pizza before it hits the oven.

[cuervo72]

Pizza crust is certainly important - it can ruin things if burnt, for instance - but it's the element I want the least of in my pizza.

As for cheeseless pizza...yeah, I can dip bread in sauce any time. A pizza without cheese has no point to me.

[Glengoyne]

I get the crust camp. That was my first inclination. My favorite pizza is very thin crispy crust. However, pizza can be good or even great with very different types of crusts.

My family took to ordering pizzas with 1/2 sauce and the like. I guess the tomato sauce gave a number of them heartburn. Well let me tell you pizza with out any sauce sucks. It really is the deciding factor for me.

For the chain pizza joints, Round Table has the best sauce in my opionion. There was a time a decade or so where many of the local franchises started skimping on the sauce, and it made for lousy pizza. I used to order it and say "and put sauce on it"....Them: "So extra sauce?"...Me: "No just don't skimp on the sauce, it is the best part of your pizza".

So while crust is important, sauce makes the pie for me.

[RainMaker]

Cheese can definitely make up for a multitude of sins

Yup, if you have good cheese, it'll overpower bad crust and sauce. I do think all play an important role, but if you're a pizza place and want to play it safe, invest in cheese.

[cartman]

I think the oven it is cooked in trumps all. You can have the best sauce, cheese, and crust, but if you don't have the right oven to cook it in, all is for naught.

[Logan]

I think the oven it is cooked in trumps all. You can have the best sauce, cheese, and crust, but if you don't have the right oven to cook it in, all is for naught.

In that case, my answer is the 97 year old who swam over here from the old country, pounding out the crusts and flipping them in the air.

That's why Kramer's "pizza place where you make your own pie" idea never took off.

[Karlifornia]

I stand by my comments. Philly sports fans are pure crap. If you like it, that's your opinion. My opinion is that they are crap. Fucking deal with it or continue to cry about it, Santa. My opinion will still be that they are pure crap

FIFY

[Logan]

LOL.

[Passacaglia]

I've lived in Chicago over 10 years now, and have not been a fan of the deep dish pizza, here or anywhere. And I've got a pretty good hatred of Buddy's, from several family gatherings when I lived in Detroit.

[Kodos]

New Haven-style pizza is crap.

[Suicane75]

I think the oven it is cooked in trumps all. You can have the best sauce, cheese, and crust, but if you don't have the right oven to cook it in, all is for naught.

This. The way it's cooked and prepared has as much to do with how it tastes as the ingredients. Nothing can beat a local pizzeria who know what they're doing.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Nothing can beat a local pizzeria who know what they're doing.

Vince's Italian Restaurant - Detroit, Michigan - Home (http://www.vincesdetroit.com/)

I'll put their pizza up against any other.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the oven it is cooked in trumps all.

I might not go quite that far but I agree that it's a very big part of the equation. An oven that's in its prime can elevate a pizza considerably.

[OldGiants]

Top notch pizza = made in the Boston to Baltimore corridor.

Shit, imitation crap = made in California.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Vince's Italian Restaurant - Detroit, Michigan - Home (http://www.vincesdetroit.com/)

I'll put their pizza up against any other.

I'm already a fan.

[BYU 14]

I have found one place here in Phoenix that came close to New York and that's a place called brothers in Avondale. Unfortunately I only got that feeling once and they have never duplicated it.

I think we have to figure the help into the equation a bit. Those families that pass everything down from generation to generation and do all the key prep themselves are usually always a cut above.

[cartman]

There's a chain called Grimaldi's that is based on the famous NY pizzeria of the same name. They use coal fired ovens to get the temps really high for quick cooking. I had a couple of their pizzas in San Antonio, and they were pretty damn good.