STARK (GoT) Thread

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, I'm not seeing a problem here. :)

[MrBug708]

What is our next step? Are we going to war?

[Coffee Warlord]

Waiting to see what happens to Tywin before we do anything.

Much like everyone else, I think.

[Coffee Warlord]

PM'd to Chief already. Bolton and Karstark are both on the hunt now.

[Coffee Warlord]

At least, that's what I commanded you both to do. :)

[Chief Rum]

Lord Karstark and Lord Bolton both rush out of the Stark war camp at the head of large contingencies of horsemen. It appears they are going after the fugitive Tywin Lannister, as directed by their King.

[MrBug708]

Seems as if chief alluded to it being a good time to attack lands without bannermen guarding

Or do I read too much?

[MrBug708]

I have my raven still. Any idea on my target? I'm assuming the Tywin development will mean we wait for a bit either way? I'm not going to be around after 6 PST, so keep thst in consideration

Voting will be interesting tho, something has to give as we ran out of Lannister bannermen

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, prolly best to sit on it for the moment. Anything we say now will obviously change depending on what happens with Tywin.

[Coffee Warlord]

And Stannis goes and blinks first on the vote.

[Coffee Warlord]

Er, Renly.

[MrBug708]

Goading our allegiances most likely. Big vote for us

[Coffee Warlord]

Debating the merits of No Lynch vs committing.

[MrBug708]

If we can avoid the lynch today, we are on solid footing at least on the surface

[Coffee Warlord]

Think that's probably going to wind up being our goal today - avoid being the lynch victim however it falls.

[Chief Rum]

The Lords Karstark and Bolton have returned from their attempt to capture Tywin Lannister. Alas, those attempts went for naught, and the Lannister remains free.

[MrBug708]

So now what?

[Coffee Warlord]

Survive the day.

I have some thoughts, just got home from work, I'll check in later tonight.

[MrBug708]

No ravens?

[Coffee Warlord]

I have some interesting news from Littlefinger, actually.

[MrBug708]

Shall I raven u?

[Coffee Warlord]

Send word to Tywin, Karstark.

Let him know I'm not going to apologize for sending troops - he can't swear for a full day, and I couldn't afford someone else getting him without even trying. Had to happen.

But, if he hasn't flown a bird, I'd like to talk to him, and if he has, let him know I can offer him a safe, and permanent haven here - and we'll talk tomorrow.

[MrBug708]

Sounds good

[MrBug708]

Message sent. I'll be away from my computer in a bit, but I'll get word here on what happens. I give you leave to vote for me as you see fit.

[MrBug708]

He says he will send a Raven within an hour or so to discuss further. But you should probably think of a way to handle a second bannermen dishonored if he were to join our cause.

[Coffee Warlord]

As far as the vote goes...while I'd like to stay out of it, if we HAVE to vote...

...I've had far too many people tell me over the days that Renly has been trying to betray me. When that many people say the same thing, I've got no problem weakening him. If we need to take a stand, we choose Stannis over Renly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Debating the merits of saying as much in the main thread, too.

[MrBug708]

I have no feelings or belief, but I would beware of Tywin delaying the bird to the deadline to see what his best options/how the vote goes

[MrBug708]

I would do it, but I think I've done a decent job as the good faith emissary to the other houses.

What would constitute betrayal tho? Voting against? Stannis would have to do so. The good faith vote he wanted was on Melisandre and thankfully, we couldnt vote for her, so we avoided picking a side.

What other betrayal is there? Buying off a bannerman? Using a faceless man? We aren't technically sided with him, just that we pledged against the Lannisters, who are all but gone

[MrBug708]

Too bad Alan was so nosy :)

[MrBug708]

Julio might come back. If he doesn't, Chief should just let Tyrion come to our side :)

[Coffee Warlord]

No, I think I should be able to transfer JAG's dishonor to Lathum, and just execute him. Problem solved. :)

[MrBug708]

One free no lynch in return :)

[MrBug708]

Cant you give him to Ramsey anyways?

[MrBug708]

I bet Roose Bolton being the guy going after Tywin is causing some discussion among the Baratheon brothers?

[MrBug708]

I only have enough money for one more round of mercs. Am I using it the next day? Or saving it for the day after (which I think I'll have two more rounds in my bag)

[Coffee Warlord]

Don't bother buying today.

[Lathum]

No, I think I should be able to transfer JAG's dishonor to Lathum, and just execute him. Problem solved. :)

ok

[Coffee Warlord]

Word from Stannis - Pretty much cementing what we already know. We trust each other way more than either of us trusts Renly.

[MrBug708]

Vote for us I think

[MrBug708]

What about one vote towards Stannis and three towards renly? We might need a weaken renly vs Stannis if it comes to it

[Coffee Warlord]

I think we had to pretty much pick a united front.

[MrBug708]

Word from Tywin?

[Coffee Warlord]

Yep. Presented a good case to him, we'll see what happens. Can only wait till tomorrow now.

We'll make another capture run at him tomorrow - can't afford not to (I told him that flat out anyway).

[MrBug708]

War is coming

[MrBug708]

Who is going to chase and who is going to battle?

[JAG]

I think we have to wait for Chief to process a lot of stuff before we can figure out what's going on at the moment and plan how to respond accordingly.

[Coffee Warlord]

That.

[MrBug708]

True but neither baratheons will spare a bannerman

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh oh, I see what you're saying.

[MrBug708]

I doubt Joffrey wastes time

[Coffee Warlord]

Waiting for confirmation that we indeed cannot commit troops to war that we have already committed to capturing someone before I figure out WTF we're doing.

[MrBug708]

Welcome Julio!

[Coffee Warlord]

Sweet! Let's sacrifice him to the Old Gods!

[Julio Riddols]

Hello fellow Starks.

[Julio Riddols]

It appears we can just sit back and watch the Baratheons kill each other, no?

[Coffee Warlord]

As nice as it would be, politically, I'm not sure we can sit back.

[Julio Riddols]

What is the general idea for us then? I'm catching up, but a synopsis would be great.

[Coffee Warlord]

We had a 3 way alliance against the Lannisters agreed upon. That didn't turn out so hot, as you can now see. As I noticed, Stannis has been a lot more consistent than Renly, so we sided with Stannis.

Some interesting stuff going on with Littlefinger, though I'm not sure how that's gonna turn out just yet.

We, like everybody else, want to catch Tywin - we've talked, we'll see there.

Lessee...

[Coffee Warlord]

And everything I say is true. Especially the lies.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, catch up, throw me some more specific questions, I'll try and clarify.

[Julio Riddols]

Littlefinger is bound to always have something interesting going on. I wish he was more reliable.

Are you planning to offer Tywin a chance to bend the knee, or will he meet his end if we are able to capture him?

I also have a raven I can use if you would like me to try and acquire some knowledge or an opinion.

[Coffee Warlord]

If Tywin wants to bend the knee, I'll happily keep him. That's too much income and troops in our pocket to go otherwise. We can afford paying the gold to restore his honor.

And I'll more than likely need the ravens - still waiting to see what all else processes here.

[Julio Riddols]

Right on. I'll be around, gonna kind of keep quiet til things start to sort out, aside from just being Theon.

[MrBug708]

Around today as well

[Coffee Warlord]

Bug or Julio. Once the day turns over, would one of you send a raven to Littlefinger, asking if he can expand on what we spoke of (and I still need clarification on) yesterday?

Let him know I'm saving my raven just in case I badly need it on something else.

[MrBug708]

I can if need be. Is that anytime? Or is that after tomorrow at 2 PST?

[Coffee Warlord]

That would be once today actually starts...which should be at some point today.

[MrBug708]

I wont be around much from between now and the deadline. I'll try to get a raven, but it might need to be short and sweet as I'll only be on my phone

[Coffee Warlord]

Send it to Littlefinger then, as I noted yesterday. Easy enough.

[Coffee Warlord]

Though I'm doubting his response is going to be to my satisfaction. We'll see.

[MrBug708]

Raven sent!

[MrBug708]

Are we hunting Tywin?

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, I sent Bolton with a legion at his back.

[Coffee Warlord]

No point in sending multiple people - we have to overcome his bigass troop size.

[Coffee Warlord]

Julio, you around?

[MrBug708]

Alright...other than that...we wait?

[Coffee Warlord]

We wait for now. The long game has worked well for us so far.

Just to reassure you, I'm most certainly moving pieces in the background. A King can't reveal ALL his master plans, can he? :)

[Julio Riddols]

I have something hidden up my sleeve as well, Lord Stark.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm hoping it's to my benefit, and you're not gonna pull a Theon on me, Theon. :)

[MrBug708]

Or you pull a Robb Stark on me. I prefer my.head

[Coffee Warlord]

Yes, because killing off bannermen worked out so well in the books.

[MrBug708]

Renly is now weaker

[Coffee Warlord]

Like I said. Waiting helps.

[Chief Rum]

Lord Bolton rushes out of camp at the head of an army, on an unknown errand.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh, I daresay it's pretty known.

[MrBug708]

No word from Baelish yet

[Coffee Warlord]

Ya do worry me a slight bit with all the things with Varys, Bug old chap.

BUT. I'm going to trust the fact that I'm pretty sure I'm putting us and you in the best position to win to keep ya'll on my side.

[Coffee Warlord]

I heard back from him directly.

[MrBug708]

Had I known about Varys sooner, I might have done something about it. I haven't had a raven to communicate with him however as they have been on your business

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. Good thing I'm not about to start offing my own people. Bad for business.

[Julio Riddols]

I'm thinking if I do happen to Theon you, maybe we can flip it in our favor. Now with Renly in his weakened state...

[Julio Riddols]

I can see the dominos in the order they may fall. If we can convince the kingdom as a whole to accept that our path is the best path, we can take down Renly, then the Lannisters, then Stannis in succession. I think now may be the time to seize the advantage.

[Coffee Warlord]

What horrible awful thing can you actually do?

[Julio Riddols]

It will be clear in time. Let us turn it to our advantage.

[Julio Riddols]

I just wanna be bannerman to the king when it is all said and done.

[Julio Riddols]

To bring honor to my family.

[Julio Riddols]

Trust that my intentions are pure. Anyway, is there anything you would like me to do today?

[Coffee Warlord]

Not yet.

Other than don't fuck me over. I get vindictive about that sorta thing. :)

[Alan T]

Other than don't fuck me over. I get vindictive about that sorta thing. :)


I would like for you to be my guest to a wedding at the Frey's. Should be a good time for all!

[Julio Riddols]

The only fucking going on will be us fucking whores to celebrate our victories as they come.

[Coffee Warlord]

I would like for you to be my guest to a wedding at the Frey's. Should be a good time for all!

My +1 shall be +1...army. Fair enough?

[Coffee Warlord]

Sending you out raiding and pillaging, Bug.

[Coffee Warlord]

With a nice juicy target, at that.

[Coffee Warlord]

'Bout that time kids.

The armies of House Stark march - we come to the defense of King Stannis.

[Coffee Warlord]

Sending you out raiding and pillaging, Bug.

Or not. :)

[MrBug708]

Sending us after Joffrey?

[Coffee Warlord]

Was, until I got a clarification on the rules. You're marching alongside me at the head of a vast host instead. Let's go killing.

[MrBug708]

Kings Landing would have been pretty nice to buy off our freedom with

[MrBug708]

Vote?

[Coffee Warlord]

I placed one for ya.

[Coffee Warlord]

Long story short, it's still in our best interest to work with Stannis. And we couldn't risk Renly nabbing two provinces.

[MrBug708]

That bastard Theon!

[Coffee Warlord]

Might not wind up as bad as you'd think. I'm hoping, anyway.

Let's hope we get some good rolls in this war - doesn't surprise me the Lannisters are joining, but I think it was the wrong move for them.

[MrBug708]

Im not rolling with Mercs fyi

[Coffee Warlord]

Apparently Stannis had WAY less troops than I hoped. Jesus.

[JAG]

He has a lot of ships though, which should help.

[Coffee Warlord]

That he most certainly does.

[MrBug708]

Are we like 2/3rd's of that host? Highgarden, Storms End, and King's Landing have a natural advantage

[Coffee Warlord]

I think we're more like 3/4's of that host.

And I wonder if your Kill Jaime "power" will come up in this. :)

[MrBug708]

I'm hoping that I don't lose that coin toss :)

[JAG]

Good luck guys, twas fun.

[MrBug708]

Wow.

That didnt go so well

Now what?

[Coffee Warlord]

For one, looks like you just got promoted. :)

Then we'll chat in PM.

[Coffee Warlord]

Just announced it in main thread. I'm about to make dinner, but I'll buzz you later tonight.

[MrBug708]

Just posting nonsense to bump the thread

[Coffee Warlord]

Challenge accepted.

[MrBug708]

Did u get my last message?

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah. Dunno yet. Lot of things depends on some stuff getting resolved.

And we have all weekend.

[Coffee Warlord]

House Stark
(L) Winterfell
(L) Riverrun
(L) The Dreadfort
(L) Summerhall
(S) The Twins
(S) Deepwood Motte
(S) Karhold
(S) Casterly Rock

House Lannister
(L) Harrenhal
(S) King's Landing
(S) Crakehall
(S) Fairhaven
(S) Clegane's Keep

House Baratheon/Stannis
(L) Brightwater Keep
(S) Dragonstone
(S) Duskendale
(S) Cape Wrath

House Baratheon/Renly
(L) Highgarden
(L) Parchments
(S) Storm's End
(S) Blackhaven
(S) The Arbor
(S) Maidenpool (CONTESTED)


L - Land territory.
S - Sea territory.

Believe this is accurate. If the other houses want it, they can do it their damn selves. :)

[Chief Rum]

Lord Karstark has left the camp on an unknown errand.

[Chief Rum]

Lord Rickard Karstark has returned to camp... and it seems he brings a prize!

Lord Tywin Lannister is now in the hands of House Stark.

King Robb Stark has until the Day Seven deadline (tomorrow) to decide what to do with The Lannister.

[MrBug708]

Boom!

[Coffee Warlord]

Huzzah.

And I now formally offer Tywin the chance to bend knee.

[MrBug708]

Is he allowed to be in this thread?

[Coffee Warlord]

He prolly will be soon.

[MrBug708]

So I "captured" him

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, assuming the remainder of this goes to plan, it worked out.

[Coffee Warlord]

We didn't do that, I might add. :)

[Chief Rum]

Lord Tywin Lannister has Bent The Knee to King Robb Stark!

He has vassalled himself to House Stark, and now owes King Robb Stark a 10% tithing from his home keep of Casterly Rock.

Lord Tywin has agreed to serve his new lord to the end of his days, and King Robb Stark has agreed to protect Lord Tywin for now and ever.

Additionally, Lord Tywin has offered all of his gold, 10000 in count, to the poor to cleanse his dishonor. King Robb has donated a like amount.

Lord Tywin Lannister is no longer an Enemy of the Realm.

Lord Tywin Lannister (hoopguy) is now a bannerman to King Robb Stark (Coffee Warlord) and is available to serve his King in all the normal ways a bannerman may. He may now post in the House Stark thread.

[MrBug708]

And here we sit

[hoopsguy]

I'll be disposed with Casterly Rock business for the next several hours, but anticipate being around for the deadline.

Would be a major disappointment to reacquire Enemy status again later today ... would have hoped that our GRRM-to-be would have waited until nightfall to lift it so that wouldn't be on the table for at least one afternoon.

[Coffee Warlord]

Welcome aboard. Cooking dinner, hanging with the kid, so I may or may not be able to reply.

Go ahead and read. Then figure out which are the lies. :)

BTW, I think the current wheeling and dealing has us voting Theon tonight.

[MrBug708]

I'll be mostly around

[hoopsguy]

Lord Karstark and Lord Bolton both rush out of the Stark war camp at the head of large contingencies of horsemen. It appears they are going after the fugitive Tywin Lannister, as directed by their King.

Interesting. I thought Littlefinger was lying to me about this, rather clumsily in fact.

Varys also tipped me to an assassination attempt on Melissandre. I got the info about an hour before the witch was dead. At that time, I did not have anyone that I felt needed to be tipped off to the act.

[Coffee Warlord]

I was gonna get you before anyone else, dammit, and didn't have anything for either of them to do.

I don't think I've caught either of them in a lie just yet - though they've exagerrated in places, I believe. That being said, it's still hard to trust either of them.

[Coffee Warlord]

Interesting tidbit for today you both should know, however. Word is Stannis & Joffrey have cut a deal. If it's true, that leaves Renly in real bad shape.

[hoopsguy]

Was looking to see how things would shake out with the Iron Men.
Did you get the info on what I bring to the table?

You mentioned special powers earlier - mine was offed on Day 2 when Ser Gregor died. So thanks to all here for helping with that.
I've got some limitations on taking out members of my family, but that doesn't apply to my grandson.

Also, I'm penniless for now but won't be for long.

Robb, I did not see any mention of it in the thread but did Lord Bolton make any mention of the raven I sent to him several days back? Just curious ...

[hoopsguy]

Joffrey was the only person not to put out feelers for me joining. I would not have been allowed to rejoin him anyway. I was generally pretty forthright in my communications ... similar concerns highlighted to the others that I shared with you. I did not want joining an alliance to lead to that house becoming the primary target for all others this week. I've already been on the receiving end of this once and would prefer a repeat.

I was hoping to get clarity on the Brienne issue, as well as some sense of the voting this week before being captured. But, whether you believe it or not, my intention was to come here. Probably today, maybe tomorrow. Either way, the die is cast.

If the Ironborn join with Stannis there will be significant naval challenges. I bring some ships to our alliance, but hardly the type of naval might required to go toe-to-toe with Stannis. Or, from what I can guess, House Greyjoy.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hi Jag. :)

Put it this way. He might have, but me and JAG probably accounted for about 30% of all of Chief's IMs...just from our Hand conversations. Things can blur a bit.

And no, but I'll ask Chief for an accounting of your stuff.

[hoopsguy]

Also, Lord Renly lost roughly 13,500 men in the battle per Littlefinger. My understanding is that Robb lost considerably (more than half, less than 90%) fewer ... I won't publish the number here in case the communication is not secure.

Just using these as sanity checks for the quality of information received from Littlefinger. I've got information from Varys that I may wish to explore further at a later date. But not now.

[Coffee Warlord]

Me and Julio are talking, figuring out which way to go. Unfortunately, I think the deals to vote Greyjoys today have been made. And it's voting someone Not Named Us.

[hoopsguy]

Hi Jag. :)

Put it this way. He might have, but me and JAG probably accounted for about 30% of all of Chief's IMs...just from our Hand conversations. Things can blur a bit.

And no, but I'll ask Chief for an accounting of your stuff.

You would know what I'm referring to - this was not cryptic.

I barely explored Hand conversations as Joffrey and I were rarely around together. I was off being a diplomat in a failed venture, and then I was gone. So Chief was not bothered by the two of us to any meaningful extent.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh. Yes, I do know actually.

[hoopsguy]

And now I must arrange for a daughter of this house (not Cersei) to obtain weapons training and self defense skills. I shall return when she has been trained, fed, and retired for the evening.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. When you get back, speaking of Cersei. What's your take on her? I had a short conversation with her, but nothing since that, ages ago. It just didn't seem that our interests would coincide. The information would have been nice, but she knew damn well my bannerman wanted to kill Jaime.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bug, you around?

[MrBug708]

Ya

[Coffee Warlord]

I just IM'd you stuff, so there. :P

[hoopsguy]

Back now, thanks for moving my vote for earlier deadline.

I'll be around for good portions of the evening if there is a need to catch up in this thread.

I've got very little insight into Cersei's motivations. I have always assumed they would be driven by protecting her son. She advised me that I should join you in the raven she sent at the end of the day, although she sounded just as frantic there as she did in her late posts today.

[Coffee Warlord]

We're all 99% sure she's the only one who can view these threads, for what it's worth.

That said, should be some interesting stuff tomorrow. One of you I'm gonna send to Joffrey, the other I'm not sure just yet. That being said, talks went well with Theon - he understood we had to vote him today, and it shouldn't affect tomorrow's dealings.

[hoopsguy]

So, correct me if I'm wrong - but at the moment are we the only faction without someone that is dishonorable? If so, how does that potentially play into trying to bring Selmy over to Team Stark?

If we need to juice the honor score - before one of us gets Enemy status again, I suppose - then does it make sense to donate to the poor or something along those lines to adjust our "score" upwards? I seem to recall seeing conversation in the thread about him requiring a ruler to have a minimum honor threshold, or something along those lines.

[Coffee Warlord]

It does - however, it's going to take several more days for Selmy to officially go anywhere, unfortunately. He has a bodyguard ability in the interim, however - and we've had it off and on.

[Coffee Warlord]

And believe me - I've spent so much money on the poor and the homeless, they have better houses than I do at this point. I've made it a point since I discovered how nasty negative honor was to juice the living fuck out of it.

[hoopsguy]

I had inquired around the bodyguard once I was on the run and been assured that he wasn't going to help an Enemy of the Realm.

I'm wondering what the BG would come into play for - I assume assassination attempts, but can you think of anything else?

Similarly, if he did join a faction I'm guessing it wouldn't be bringing troops or ships - probably a battle bonus, similar to what I saw attributed to Jamie.

[hoopsguy]

For the record, I have yet to poach on another thread ... saw all the "oops, sorry" posts and was getting to point where I wanted to whack you + path across respective knuckles with a ruler.

[Coffee Warlord]

Unless he's lying to me, I already know what he brings when he joins a faction.

Won't go into details, but it's damned useful. It's worth pouring money into keeping honor up.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hey man. Kings gotta do a fuckload of clicking. :)

[Coffee Warlord]

There's also the ever interesting matter of Littlefinger.

From what he told me, he CAN join a faction - he's choosing not to right now because he loses a bunch of his special abilities.

[Coffee Warlord]

Or it could be bullshit.

[hoopsguy]

So this will be new, not having to spend a large sum of money every day just for the sake of spending it. Let me know if there are actions that you would like to see in terms of money, troop movement, etc.

I'm a little cautious about what to ask in this thread if you fear they are being watched. But I assume there is thought being paid to next war, strategies to avoid Lannister+Renly+Ironborn forming an alliance tomorrow, etc?

Also curious if the publicly discussed details on the Brienne of Tarth negotiation were the entirety of that particular deal? I was more or less expecting to be joining her as a fellow bannerman this afternoon. Don't need more info than you are comfortable giving on this, just trying to cover some open questions that I had if they can be discussed.

[hoopsguy]

Do we have a maester's report, or second-hand info on the Greyjoy clan?

[Coffee Warlord]

No, I don't mind that part becoming public (wars we'll get into shortly).

Long story short, from the public thread, I'm FAIRLY convinced that Brienne got a bonus to stuff when she is Renly's bannerman - and only Renly's bannerman.

So, I figured I'd take a land off him. Since he couldn't (and certainly wouldn't) give me Highgarden, I took his best Inland province. Figured it'd be better to amass more inland provinces to nullify the fleet advantages should we be attacked.

[Coffee Warlord]

Not yet - we should spend money on that tomorrow.

[Coffee Warlord]

I got a report on Renly owed to me right now, FWIW.

[Coffee Warlord]

And...judging from my talks today, it's far more looking like Everyone vs Renly tomorrow. Heh.

[hoopsguy]

Not yet - we should spend money on that tomorrow.

Hmm, darn. Did not do it today with expectation that it would be done by someone and did not want to duplicate effort. I would smile if that were in my nature. (ooc - have probably goofed that up somewhere, but have tried to remember not to use any emoticons)

I haven't heard much mention of Tyrion. I'm wondering, to some extent, how engaged Danny has been with the role. He usually does not have the "Lathum syndrome" of being uninterested in digging into complex games, but he has been far more quiet than I would have expected at the outset.

[Coffee Warlord]

He's another guy I spoke briefly with, he told me he wanted money - lots and lots of money, and told me he could follow people. I put him in the camp of 'not worth my effort, money, or my precious, previous ravens.'

[Coffee Warlord]

Which, I'm wondering if EVERYONE put him into that camp, no one has said much to him, and he's losing interest.

[hoopsguy]

Have you and Stannis reached any kind of "divide and conquer" notion around Stark getting Tywin and him receiving Joffrey?

I'm guessing Joffrey won't bend to Renly if we are moving towards a dogpile on his forces tomorrow. I don't have a great set of information on what Joffrey had for his troops, but I expect with half of mine joining him that they were a pretty formidable group. Especially for a bannerman, if it goes that direction. I also assume Joffrey would be yielding lands, which would create a pretty substantial edge for the person who gets him.

Bottom line - even if Joffrey isn't a factor in becoming king I expect him to be one heck of a bannerman for someone by the end of this week.

[hoopsguy]

I'm insanely jealous of the amount of intel you seem to have, relative to what I felt like House Lannister had early on and what I later suffered through in my trip to the woods.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, I want him - or failing that, we're gonna have to do something drastic there. Granted, he prolly took some losses in this last battle, but that's a lot of men and money he's got.

[hoopsguy]

On an semi-related note, I feel bad for Stannis - judging by his thread, he is not getting a whole heck of a lot of quality counsel. Their fortress seems to be an echo chamber.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. Well, had you not wandered around like a god damned peasant for days on end, and led my men on merry chases, this coulda been done sooner!

[Coffee Warlord]

I pretty much make it a point to have the bannermen burn a raven to some random person daily, I get my daily dose of bullshit from Varys, and there's emissaries almost every day. News, it comes my way.

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, I want him - or failing that, we're gonna have to do something drastic there. Granted, he prolly took some losses in this last battle, but that's a lot of men and money he's got.

If we lose him, we probably need to own the neutrals. Or be sure that we've got a 2:1 against the party that secures his services.

Or land Renly. If Renly is attacked in war again and forced to kneel my first inclination is that he would try to thwart Stannis.

[hoopsguy]

I think if I had joined you at a point where you had Roose that it would have had a lot of potential to create alliances against House Stark. Perhaps that was me overthinking, but my hope was to mirror the actions in Robert's Rebellion and arrive just in the nick of time to crown the future king.

That would have been a more fun plan if I wasn't operating under fear of capture every day. Without that threat, I would have launched an assassin by now for sure.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's the thing - if one went, someone else would HAVE to fall into line, I think. I'm moderately certain it's damned close to an I Win button if Joffrey bends knee too early.

[Coffee Warlord]

What's Zinto's usual online schedule, hoops?

[MrBug708]

I wont be around for a few hours this AM. From about 8 to noon PST

[MrBug708]

I would imagine I'll be the next enemy of the realm. If so, I can probably buy my honor back

[Coffee Warlord]

You people and your crazy pacific time.

[MrBug708]

Hey man, got a half day sub job...gotta do what I can :)

West Coast is where it's at! My brother in law is a huge Chicago fan as he is from there. They live in DC at the moment. He hated it here on the WC, but I think it was because he couldnt see his teams live.

He was from Wheaton

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. I can see Wheaton from my office. (I live & work in Naperville, technically speaking)

[Alan T]

Hey man, got a half day sub job...gotta do what I can :)

West Coast is where it's at! My brother in law is a huge Chicago fan as he is from there. They live in DC at the moment. He hated it here on the WC, but I think it was because he couldnt see his teams live.

He was from Wheaton


Growing up on the east coast, I despised when i moved to Dallas, and then hated it even more in California because of sports pretty much.

[MrBug708]

When our teams play on the east coast, it just means we miss the start of the game, not waiting up til 1 am :)

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm to this day still bitter I was forced to move from California at a very young age. To Illinois. During one of the worst winters on record. For a kid who'd never seen snow.

[MrBug708]

Where in California?

[Coffee Warlord]

Palm Springs.

[MrBug708]

Ya...that might be a stretch. One of the hottest places in the US.

I'll be there next week! Hope we win this war by then!

[hoopsguy]

What's Zinto's usual online schedule, hoops?

Spotty during the day, more around later evening hours, from what I've discerned in this game and others.

[Coffee Warlord]

Gonna prolly ship you over his way later today, then.

[Coffee Warlord]

Save your raven, too. I'm waiting on a maester report, and if it's favorable...Shit. It May Be Going Down.

[hoopsguy]

Sounds good. Ravens remain in their cages for now.

[Coffee Warlord]

Didn't expect Julio to flee.

Karstark! You're up!

[MrBug708]

Hunting?

[Coffee Warlord]

Damn skippy. Why the hell not. I sent you some troops, and sent the order in.

[Coffee Warlord]

Interesting.

Seems Stannis would prefer to lead the next fight against Renly, rather than have me do it.

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, does he have reason to believe that there is an advantage to him leading rather than you? Not sure what information you might have shared with him ...

[MrBug708]

Is he going to highgarden?

[Coffee Warlord]

Not that he shared. I basically let him know that, to my knowledge, the Greyjoys won't be helping Renly, and Renly was hit hard by the war - be a good time to attack.

Then I laid out another idea of me striking an inland province instead, and forcing him to either retreat to the coast (where Stannis could help with his fleet), or stand and fight solo.

He seems to favor the former right now. I'm assuming he'll attack a coastal province and force Renly onto land.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'd imagine he's hitting Storm's End directly, though I don't know. I'd do it if I was in his place, though. Go for the jugular and force him to fight or flee his best province.

[hoopsguy]

I assume that we/Stannis have good intel on Renly's forces at this point?

We still working with assumption that Joffrey will aid in the defense?

How comfortable are you that Greyjoy's won't aid Renly? I suspect this gets very interesting if we have 3 kings versus 2, particularly on ground chosen by the 3 king force.

[Coffee Warlord]

1 - I'll be letting him know once I get the report how he looks.

2 - Yes. Though, I'm still going to emissary you later in the day to Zinto and see what's up there.

3 - With Theon fleeing, less comfortable than I was yesterday. BUT, if he passed on everything to Balon, he should know it'd be beyond dumb for him to help out Renly.

[hoopsguy]

When pursuing the conversation with Joffrey, what are we going to be offering him? I have to believe he knows his options for being the winner of the game of thrones are remote at this time, so what is his inducement to side with us? I think we have to assume that Stannis and Renly will be providing him some motivation to take a course of action as well.

[Coffee Warlord]

Well...

Unless bannermen have some special condition of "your secondary goal is to have a shit-ton of lands and money in addition to winning", he sure as hell doesn't need extra lands and titles. What's the point?

At the end of the day, I can make the case I'm in the strongest position - and thusly offer the best chance of actually winning. Is there really anything beyond that that makes a damn bit of difference?

[Coffee Warlord]

Though it's fairly obvious that whoever Joff falls to, everyone will immediately be gunning for them. The question really is...would we have enough cash and men to take them all on.

[Coffee Warlord]

To which I answer...3 vs 1? Maybe, maybe not. I'm moderately certain me and Joff have the highest amount of troops, though so it's not entirely out of the question.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so do we put some level of implied threat out there that if he sides with Renly in this battle that it may be harder for him to choose his landing place at House Stark?

I'm not sure we can make that threat, as we want to end up with him or Renly at some point in the near future. Ideally him, if he doesn't sacrifice his troops saving Renly.

[hoopsguy]

Just trying to walk through what kind of coercion we feel like we can apply to Joffrey ... honestly not sure we have much that is unique to offer. He is going to pick who he thinks yields the best chance at bannerman victory, and I suspect that is what I'll stress in the conversation.

[hoopsguy]

Let me know when you want me to depart/return from Kings Landing. Ditto on raven choice if that is to happen after I leave for Kings Landing since I will not be able to monitor these communications during that window of time.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yeah, that's really the only appealing thing we can offer - blunt honesty (which hey, it's worked well for me thus far!). If other people offer anything beyond Best Chance of Winning, they're full of shit.

The raven idea I had may not apply - I was gonna have you send a message to Renly's bannerman Not Name Brienne, and hint he should just flee now, if he wants to live (seeing as a whole world of pain was headed their way). If Stannis leads the charge, won't bother. If, however, I DO strike first while you're away, go ahead and send that message. May convince him to flee while he can.

[Coffee Warlord]

And really, I was just waiting until I saw Zinto tooling around.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I'll send that raven if it is you initiating. Possibly a one word message.

RUN!

[Coffee Warlord]

Hmm. We outnumber him, but not by as much as I'd expected.

[hoopsguy]

Why did you expect to have a massive edge on Renly? They had 25K more men last time the two armies collided. You made up, assuming good info from Littlefinger, somewhere between 5-10K due to differential in deaths, and I'm bringing a host of men.

Does the info on Renly's force give you insight into the size of Joffrey's army that you did not previously possess?

[hoopsguy]

Also, in the event that I'm going to be departing soon and our communications will be limited - anything in particular you would like me to do with cash on hand? I'm perfectly fine being left to my own devices, but figured it was good protocol to ask on my first day as part of House Stark.

[Coffee Warlord]

No, I just realized why I was surprised - last time I 'scanned' him, he had Loras still with him. The difference in troops was now Loras's troops are directly his.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. I would say dedicate 5k to mercs for tomorrow, to bolster our forces in the event of war. Aside from that, no.

Though we could off someone...

[Coffee Warlord]

Anyway. Head on over, hoops. I see a Zinto on.

Dispatch Lord Tywin to Camp Joffrey

[MrBug708]

You control the vote today Robb

I went hunting after Theon, right?

[Coffee Warlord]

Yep. We'll see how that turns out.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I assume putting the vote on Stannis had to do with some level of negotiations with the Greyjoy group?

No reply on the raven I sent yesterday. If you have any particular direction for where I should send one today let me know in the next hour. Otherwise, I'll be out for a few hours leading up to deadline and will make some selfish, Tywin-first type decision on the raven before departing.

[Coffee Warlord]

As I told Stannis -

1) It was partially due to talks with Greyjoys. I couldn't very well vote them twice while talking them out of helping Renly in this war.

2) Voting Greyjoys would have put us within a single vote of a tie. I don't want any damn part of that mess again.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm kind of zonked out right now - minor plague, and my head is kinda fuzzy. Your call today, I think.

[Coffee Warlord]

That said...how'd things with Joff go?

[hoopsguy]

Talks with Joffrey went very well, assuming he actually does what was discussed.

I suggested that he would do well to conserve his men and ships, sit out the next war rather than side with Renly. I reminded him that he'll be a bigger catch for the next king if he has more assets.

He isn't in a hurry to bend the knee, going through same thought process I did in terms of fearing that the alliance he joins will be next one gang tackled. I reminded him that he won't be only king pondering bending the knee, so to carefully consider where he wants to land and not let Renly end up dictating that decision.

I've also got info on his current army size + ships + ballpark figure on troops he lost in last battle. Not sure if you want it publicly here or if you already have that info via maester report.

[Coffee Warlord]

Him, I don't have a number on.

So is he gonna side with ANYONE in this battle, in theory?

[hoopsguy]

No, sitting on sidelines for the battle is what he indicated. I personally think that is the right strategy for him if he doesn't think that a Renly/Greyjoy alliance is going to emerge to threaten us + Stannis.

But he might just be telling me what he wants you to hear. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Also, per Littlefinger, on the day that I was captured neither Stannis nor Renly had discussions with either Joffrey or the Greyjoys.

Renly only spoke with Robb.
Stannis spoke with his Hand, as well as sending me a raven about potentially joining him. While ignoring a raven from Robb.

Curious - I expect they both sent emissaries to talk to the Greyjoys but I'm surprised that neither exchanged ravens with anyone from House Greyjoy or House Lannister.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. It looks like there's no more Us + Stannis, too. Us + Renly, however, might be on the books for a day or two.

[hoopsguy]

Heh. It looks like there's no more Us + Stannis, too. Us + Renly, however, might be on the books for a day or two.

That is especially interesting in light of a reply I got from the Part I raven - that party was intrigued by the suggestion of stepping aside, but wanted some assurances from you that he would find himself protected from attacks from within as the game of thrones draws to a conclusion.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hard assurances, nobody can give. However, it's in my best interest to keep him safe and happy while the other two whittle each other down.

[Coffee Warlord]

How long I can pull this off is another question. :)

[hoopsguy]

1.) I wonder, if Stannis had a "do over" on Ser Gregor, if the Mountain would still be wandering the lands?
2.) Any insight into why he executed him? Looking to gain honor, perhaps? Some kind of rule about sacrifice for Melissandre to get a kill later?
3.) Feel like tipping your hand on how to proceed with Theon? I certainly can wait until after deadline, or whenever else, but my natural curiosity leads me to want to discuss it.
4.) Have there been discussions about how to proceed with the war? The Us + Renly seems to suggest there may have been ... but not sure just how fluid that might be as Stannis has returned his votes to Asha Greyjoy.

[hoopsguy]

Hard assurances, nobody can give. However, it's in my best interest to keep him safe and happy while the other two whittle each other down.

Well, depending on how you want to see it play out perhaps some kind of subtle nod in the main thread would get your the short-term result you seek.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh oh, I was actually thinking of someone else. You're referring to that little bonus raven I had you send yesterday. That, hell yes. It profits me nothing to behead potential allies.

[Coffee Warlord]

1.) I wonder, if Stannis had a "do over" on Ser Gregor, if the Mountain would still be wandering the lands?
2.) Any insight into why he executed him? Looking to gain honor, perhaps? Some kind of rule about sacrifice for Melissandre to get a kill later?
3.) Feel like tipping your hand on how to proceed with Theon? I certainly can wait until after deadline, or whenever else, but my natural curiosity leads me to want to discuss it.
4.) Have there been discussions about how to proceed with the war? The Us + Renly seems to suggest there may have been ... but not sure just how fluid that might be as Stannis has returned his votes to Asha Greyjoy.

1 - I can't see any profit in killing a bannerman, unless you know they're gonna screw you. Wars rip through bannermen, as do assassins.

2 - Honestly, no. I thought it was a mistake then, I still do. Perhaps there is a hidden mechanic, but my own is WAY less complex, so I doubt it.

3 - See my above thoughts. I see no reason not to keep him. Plus, I have a SLIGHT suspicion, based on comments, this is part of his utterly convoluted goals.

4 - Tough one, coming soon.

[Coffee Warlord]

It sorta seems our best course of action is to sit this one out. We profit nothing here, and those two hurting each other certainly helps us. Balon has no reason to jump into this, nor does Joffrey.

Though, on the flipside, we COULD stand to deliver a crushing blow to one side or another...

[Coffee Warlord]

My main concern is burning too many bridges too fast. But, being the 500 lbs gorilla in the room when no one trusts the other does have its advantages.