LANNISTER (GoT) Thread

[Chief Rum]

This is the House Lannister thread. You may only post in here or view this thread if you are allowed to in the game rules.

This thread is for members of House Lannister.



FOR REFERENCE

Here is the player list, with roles



HOUSE STARK

King Robb Stark-- Coffee Warlord

Roose Bolton-- JAG
Rickard Karstark-- MrBug708
Theon Greyjoy-- Lathum


HOUSE LANNISTER

King Joffrey Baratheon-- Zinto

Tywin Lannister-- hoopsguy
Jaime Lannister-- greenbeans
Ser Gregor Clegane-- Julio Riddols


HOUSE BARATHEON OF DRAGONSTONE

King Stannis Baratheon-- Autumn

Ser Davos Seaworth-- InBlue
Axell Florent-- claphamsa
Melisandre-- bulletsponge


HOUSE BARATHEON OF STORM'S END

King Renly Baratheon-- path12

Loras Tyrell-- murrayyyyy
Cortnay Penrose-- Darth Vilus
Brienne of Tarth-- fontisian


NEUTRAL CHARACTERS

Barristan Selmy-- mauchow
Lord Varys-- DaddyTorgo
Cersei Lannister-- Narcizo
Petyr Littlefinger Baelish-- saldana
Tyrion Lannister-- Danny

[hoopsguy]

I have arrived, and wish to discuss Lannister business. Especially since we can have conversations that do not include that whoring imp Tyrion.

[Zinto]

Hello Grandfather. Have my uncles come to bend the knee yet or do their heads have to be placed next to Robb Starks once I get a hold of him.

[hoopsguy]

Joffrey, you have a great many decisions before you.

I expect your reign to be long and glorious. We have much work to do in the coming months to set down the pretender kings and unite the lands under House Lannister.

What thoughts have you on how to proceed? I expect that we have natural advantages compared to other houses, by virtue of our labors and your seat, but we will be a target for all others since you hold the throne.

[hoopsguy]

Each day will call for the execution of a bannerman. I feel that we must do all we can to insure our numbers are not reduced too quickly.

In order to achieve this aim, we will likely need to win hearts and minds at King's Landing (common thread). I believe the best way to do this is to create fear of the threat represented by other bannermen. This will be most effective against those who present a unique threat (magic/Stannis) or those who do not as actively play the game of thrones at King's Landing.

Additionally, I expect each house to protect their own to the best of their ability. Therefore, it will be of utmost importance to garner the approval of the entities who do not possess house affiliation. I would urge us all to be attentive to their thoughts and cater to their whims when their cause aligns with House Lannister.

[hoopsguy]

The other thought is how pushing a candidate will impact the existing king. Do we choose someone who we expect the King to protect, bringing dishonor upon him, or someone we think is more likely to flee - and potentially bring under our banner?

I do not quite understand how my daughter - the mother of our king - can be considered neutral but I hope that we may count on her loyalties. I'm less certain about Tyrion, but perhaps he will honor his name before all is said and done.

[hoopsguy]

In the previous post, by "existing king" I mean the pretender kings. The other factions will get to worry about how to apply pressure to us. Hopefully we can remain several steps ahead of them. I would be dismayed if House Tyrell, in particular, were ever able to mount a credible threat to Joffrey.

[Zinto]

I feel as though we are at a disadvantage Grandfather. People sure do seem to hate the Lannisters. Looks like we are going to need to spend our money and grease some palms.

[Zinto]

What does everyone's availability for the game look like? I need to pick a hand and would prefer someone who is going to be around.

[Zinto]

Also where is my Uncle Jamie and my hounds brother?

[hoopsguy]

Well, you do wear the throne at this time - so that makes you the common target. The sense is likely that if you can be removed from the chess board that it strengthens the claims of the pretenders. We'll need to be willing to ally with another house at this stage ... trying to go it alone against all of the other armies will lead to a bad outcome.

I anticipate having intermittent availability during the workdays ... on days where I work from home I'll be able to aggressively monitor the conversation. Tomorrow will not be one of those days, but the remainder of the week looks a bit more promising at this time. In the eve I'll have Casterly Rock matters to address (family time) but usually should be available 15-30 minutes before the daily judgement is announced.

[hoopsguy]

"wear the throne" = hold the throne. Sigh ... I shall have my scribe disciplined for his incompetence.

[Julio Riddols]

I'm here, my king. My sword hungers for the taste of blood.

[Julio Riddols]

My sword shall be made ready at all hours, with small exceptions being made for personal matters on most Mondays and Tuesdays.

[hoopsguy]

I think our first order of business is to escape Day 1 with our membership intact. I don't see any reason to tip our hand in terms of who we will target during Day 0, but we should absolutely be considering this within our own discussions.

I think the roster of House Stark poses the greatest threat, in terms of in-thread participation and ability to influence other voters. However, I'm hopeful that Robb's bannermen may not be the most loyal bunch. Turning one of them, particularly JAG/Roose, is something that we should consider if opportunity should arise.

I think Melissandre/Bullet is the easiest target, as people will fear her witchcraft and the power it bestows upon her and Stannis' forces. Couple that with someone who may not be as forceful in stating their case in the open forum and I suspect that may be our best chance to gain power early. Plus Stannis would be inclined to continue harboring her, which could present us with multiple days of grinding that axe and turning sentiment against one of the pretender kings instead of Joffrey.

[Julio Riddols]

I can get into that line of thought. Melissandre is a devilish little bitch. My current plan is just to try and be the best Clegane I can be, but I hope to make myself enticing as a potential hand to any of the kings so that I can keep my head in order to defend the king. I won't publicly express allegiance to anyone specific, instead I will try and make sure to get the hint across that my sword may be for sale.

[Julio Riddols]

Also, my king, my vote is in your hands to do with as you wish. I care for nothing but defending the throne.

[hoopsguy]

Is it possible to become the Hand for another King while remaining under the flag of House Lannister? I'm all for subterfuge, but I suspect that the structure of our caste system will prevent this from transpiring in the manner you have highlighted.

[Julio Riddols]

I guess we will have to wait for the rules to be fully spelled out before we know for sure what can happen. I'll probably be quiet in the public thread until then. Hopefully Chief will have them out before too long.

[Chief Rum]

Is it possible to become the Hand for another King while remaining under the flag of House Lannister? I'm all for subterfuge, but I suspect that the structure of our caste system will prevent this from transpiring in the manner you have highlighted.

You are correct.

The Hand must be a bannerman of the King who names him Hand. If that bannerman leaves the King's service, he will no longer be that King's hand.

[Zinto]

Well well it seems my uncle is not going to post in time so he has no chance of being the Kings Hand. I am going to roll my crown and see which of you is most deserving(random role)

[Zinto]

Actually I am going to use my brains and brawn differently. Grandfather you will be my hand and Ser Gregor you will go and terrorize the other kings as only you can do.

[hoopsguy]

(no RP post)
I'm happy to serve in whatever role you see fit at this time.

In truth, I would suggest that you clarify with Chief Rum what penalties are associated with a king having to replace his Hand ... by vote, by death, etc and factor that into the equation. I suspect that I'll draw some fire on Day 1, due to fear over my role and the fact that folks seem to want to go after our house out of the chute.

If the penalties are greater in terms of losing your Hand versus another bannerman, then it probably makes sense to have Clegor take the mantle even if it is not as consistent with the books. I'll still be very free with my thoughts in the thread, even if I'm not afforded the opportunity in PMs.

And if you do want me as Hand, I'll fulfill those duties to the best of my ability for as long as I can.

[Zinto]

(OOC)

Do we know the penalty for switching the kings hand if he is voted an enemy of the realm Chief?

[Chief Rum]

(OOC)

Do we know the penalty for switching the kings hand if he is voted an enemy of the realm Chief?

None to the King. That penalty is really in place, so you don't just switch Hands willy nilly to take advantage of the PM ability.

A Hand who is voted an Enemy of the Realm is a dishonor to his King, and everyone understands that you are well within your rights to replace a Hand who is voted an Enemy of the Realm.

[Chief Rum]

Let me know if you want to stick with hoops as your Hand, and I will announce it.

[Zinto]

Well then as the greatest tactician in the land my grandfather Tywin Lannister will become my hand.

[Julio Riddols]

Just tell me who to cut in half, my king.

[hoopsguy]

We may need to put out a search party for Jamie. I hope he has not fallen into enemy hands ... as if that would ever happen to the Kingslayer.

[Julio Riddols]

Perhaps we could pay Varys a visit. Surely his little birds have seen your son.

[hoopsguy]

Please make sure to check the rules - tons of new content.

I expect that we would do quite well in a war scenario, assuming we have our full complement in place Day 4.

Who do you feel might be pliable to an alliance at this time? My initial thought is that House Stark is the one to approach, despite our mutual bluster in the Main Thread. If we can arrange an allegiance against Stannis/Melisandre early on, I think it would serve both of our interests. We should make it clear that we want to decimate their power/navy in the early stages of the game, with the understanding that we'll have to square off later on as we reduce down to a single king. But it might as well be the two primary houses in the actual "Game of Thrones" rather than the lesser houses that emerge in the later novels.

As always, looking for feedback from the group on the general premise as well as some help fleshing out the particulars of how we might achieve the larger goals.

[Zinto]

We are definitely going to need to find an ally to began the game. If we are planning to go to war and need to fight our way to victory I am wondering if my Uncle Renly is the way to go. With the backing of the Tyrells he is sure to have a massive army.

We will have to watch Stannis and Robb. Thus far in the thread they have been bending over backwards to please each other.

[hoopsguy]

In the event that we do target Melissandre, we would likely find Varys as an ally since he despises magic.

I would hope that we could count on Tyrion and Cersei to shy away from targeting our number at the outset of the game.

Creating an early alliance with one other group should give us some latitude for the first day and hopefully a bit beyond. We need some public events that turn attention to the other factions; I expect those to start popping up by the 2nd or 3rd day, but in my mind we must aggressively defend ourselves now.

[hoopsguy]

We are definitely going to need to find an ally to began the game. If we are planning to go to war and need to fight our way to victory I am wondering if my Uncle Renly is the way to go. With the backing of the Tyrells he is sure to have a massive army.

We will have to watch Stannis and Robb. Thus far in the thread they have been bending over backwards to please each other.

The crown and the command are yours. However, I did not feel that we got a particularly warm reception from Renly/path either. My intent in identifying allies is to hopefully find the group of players who will be most actively participating ... I would rather appeal to players than roles at this point in the game. Even if those appeals are wrapped in Westeros-speak. I would insert a smiley icon, but Tywin never smiles.

[Zinto]

Everyone is jealous of us because we are Lannisters so of course we are going to be targets. We are going to need to be aggressive in trying to push one of the other "king's" bannerman tomorrow.

I agree that hopefully Mother and Uncle Tyrion remember that they are Lannisters and Little Finger and Varys remember that they are in Kings Landing still.

[Zinto]

The crown and the command are yours. However, I did not feel that we got a particularly warm reception from Renly/path either. My intent in identifying allies is to hopefully find the group of players who will be most actively participating ... I would rather appeal to players than roles at this point in the game. Even if those appeals are wrapped in Westeros-speak. I would insert a smiley icon, but Tywin never smiles.


I know that we have not got a particular warm welcome any where thus far. We will have to have a show of power so that we may try and draw our enemies to our side. Players instead of roles will probably work out just fine but we must hope that others will see that as well. The good news is Uncle Jamie will probably be safe tomorrow as he is a fresh player to these games.

[hoopsguy]

I don't pretend to know what kind of cash a king has relative to a bannerman, but my reaction to the 250K service suggests that we'll need to do quite a bit of work developing lands in order to have that kind of capital.

I'm guessing I'm a fairly big deal in terms of bannerman wealth, and that is outside of what I'll have/generate alone in this game.

[Julio Riddols]

It may benefit us to consider buying the love of the people.

[Julio Riddols]

Additionally, increasing our already strong foothold might be a better idea than reaching out to make an alliance. It depends on what lands are available to us, but finding and acquiring lands that produce ships might be more useful. I just don't think anyone will join our cause willingly without constantly trying to find a way to usurp us at the first sign of weakness.

[Julio Riddols]

In the end, I am nothing but meat and bone and steel, I care not for the matters of politics. I will do as I am asked.

[Julio Riddols]

Or, Tywin.. Perhaps you can convince your other son to do the work of making "alliances" for us. He's about the size of a pawn, isn't he? Certainly the little man with gold lined pockets would seem a friendlier face than one of us?

[Julio Riddols]

I also think we could convince Davos to betray Stannis given that his king appears to have given himself up to that sorceress in his greedy little grab for power. Davos and his fleet would be quite an asset. Stannis is clearly just another mad king if he truly believes he is Azor Ahai, and the last thing westeros needs is another mad king.

[hoopsguy]

I also would expect that our chances to influence Davos might be improved if Stannis is forced to diminish himself by protecting Melisandre.

I'm going to have Casterly Rock business to attend to for much of the afternoon. I'm hoping that someone here, during my absence, can assure that the conversation remains focused on her potentially fearsome powers and the negative impact that Asshai influence would have on a would-be king.

[hoopsguy]

Interesting that you bring up Tyrion. I'm happy to reach out to him, but since I have somewhat limited pigeons for communications I want to make sure that we feel that is the correct course of action.

Already I have heard from Cersei, who has indicated she remains loyal to our house. It is what I expected to hear, but still somewhat reassuring. We may publicly quarrel in an effort to create the appearance of dissension, but the aid of the Queen Regent would definitely be welcome.

[hoopsguy]

I'm disappointed that we have yet to hear from Jamie. His absence creates even greater pressure on our alliance than we would otherwise feel. Hopefully he is well and capable of taking up arms for our cause in the very near future.

At this point, I think we need to establish some marching orders for the day.

Joffrey - please use your communication powers to the max. I would emphasize in your missives your desire to be a fair and just king, with a desire to rule a peaceful land. Emphasize that you must protect your seat, but that you can and will be benevolent to your allies while having the capacity for mercy for your foes. That will likely come into question in light of the Ned Stark decapitation.

Clegor - I would like for us to try and grab some land. I'll ask some questions in this thread later to determine the logistics around this. But the terror you strike on the battlefield would likely enhance our chances of success in this venture.

Jamie - should you arrive, we could potentially use you as an emissary. Please let us know if you feel that you have any innate talents in this area. My suspicion is that you are better served capturing bannermen, but that doesn't appear to be an option just yet.

I'm also up for buying a service today, and willing to listen to thoughts on what market offerings would best advance Lannister interests.

[hoopsguy]

Upon further review, it sounds like the King does not enjoy unfettered PM rights. But contacting Varys is allowed and should absolutely be exercised.

[hoopsguy]

Chief Rum -
- can we attack any lands? Is there any kind of distance penalty or do we more or less have freedom of movement around Westeros from day-to-day? Not sure if there is a map and movement rates ... I know there is already a ton of other content in the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't part of it.
- Is there any bonus in attacking a land with more than one bannerman? For example, if I joined Clegor in attacking a land would there be greater benefit than just the sum of our men?
- Would the spoils be split equally among the two attackers? Do we need to name the size of our attacking force, or is it assumed that we move with our entire army?
- Is there any danger of capture or death when raiding lands?

[hoopsguy]

Looks like Cercei's first act after receiving my message, was to cast her vote towards Melissandre. Seeing deeds align with words is refreshing, if not common in Westeros.

[Julio Riddols]

Ok so Cercei is at least on our side for now, but as with anyone, I will constantly suspect treachery isn't close behind. Still it is far easier to trust a Lannister, if only because they share blood with yourself and our king. I'm definitely ready to raid some land, preferably something that produces ships. If we can somehow weaken Stannis' position while becoming a naval power in our own right, I think we can really solidify things. I think the angle that Stannis is not fit to be king with that witch whispering in his ear every moment.

[Julio Riddols]

I think that would be a good angle, I meant to say.

[Julio Riddols]

While we're attacking that angle, what if we hire a maester to see what our opponents are working with? Finding out what each pretender king has at his disposal may help us determine who to go to war with once we reach day 4. We should definitely choose our battles wisely with Joffreys head probably being the most sought after.

[Zinto]

I don't pretend to know what kind of cash a king has relative to a bannerman, but my reaction to the 250K service suggests that we'll need to do quite a bit of work developing lands in order to have that kind of capital.

I'm guessing I'm a fairly big deal in terms of bannerman wealth, and that is outside of what I'll have/generate alone in this game.


I believe that is the pie in the sky goal. I know that I am no where near 250k and I think developing our lands completely is the only way we are going to achieve that goal and it may be a very end game goal.

[Zinto]

It may benefit us to consider buying the love of the people.


I believe that will only help us get honor in the eyes of the small folk. The small folk will be no help to us today.

[Zinto]

Additionally, increasing our already strong foothold might be a better idea than reaching out to make an alliance. It depends on what lands are available to us, but finding and acquiring lands that produce ships might be more useful. I just don't think anyone will join our cause willingly without constantly trying to find a way to usurp us at the first sign of weakness.


Unless one of you has a silver tongue I fear that strengthening our lands and building upon our existing land may be the best plan.

[Zinto]

It also looks like Stannis has sent one of his bannerman to talk to Robb. I am wondering if we should send one of you two to talk to Renly and see if we can get him voting Melisandre.

Chief can you try and contact Ser Jamie we are in dire need of his help.

[hoopsguy]

Agreed, we need to have someone out and about today helping us at least a short-term alliance.

I'm happy to take on that role, although I won't have as much in-thread availability today as I will later in the week. I would also need Chief to allow it, given that I've already swapped a couple of PMs with Joffrey/Zinto in my Hand role for the day.

[Zinto]

I also would expect that our chances to influence Davos might be improved if Stannis is forced to diminish himself by protecting Melisandre.

I'm going to have Casterly Rock business to attend to for much of the afternoon. I'm hoping that someone here, during my absence, can assure that the conversation remains focused on her potentially fearsome powers and the negative impact that Asshai influence would have on a would-be king.


Currently that is the goal while trying to clear Ser Gregor of crimes. Davos is going to be hard to turn currently because he is the hand of the king. I believe that a big mistake by Stannis would need to be made if we are to approach him and try to make him a turncoat.

[Zinto]

Joffrey - please use your communication powers to the max. I would emphasize in your missives your desire to be a fair and just king, with a desire to rule a peaceful land. Emphasize that you must protect your seat, but that you can and will be benevolent to your allies while having the capacity for mercy for your foes. That will likely come into question in light of the Ned Stark decapitation.

Clegor - I would like for us to try and grab some land. I'll ask some questions in this thread later to determine the logistics around this. But the terror you strike on the battlefield would likely enhance our chances of success in this venture.

Jamie - should you arrive, we could potentially use you as an emissary. Please let us know if you feel that you have any innate talents in this area. My suspicion is that you are better served capturing bannermen, but that doesn't appear to be an option just yet.

I'm also up for buying a service today, and willing to listen to thoughts on what market offerings would best advance Lannister interests.

I think sending Ser Gregor to try and take lands would be a great idea. I am hoping to try and find Jamie at some point today. Also what are you planning to do Grandfather?

[hoopsguy]

I don't believe that the Hand of the King will play that big a role; I would appeal to Davos about his chance to impact history, to create a tale that will be told for generations to come with him at the center of the political intrigue. And he would be amply rewarded for his efforts when peace arrives.

(ooc)In other words, finding a player (Davos or otherwise) who wants a chance to make this game cool/epic is probably the one to try and sway. Someone like Lathum; I'm sure there are other good choices as well. But that is the way that I think we get someone to deviate from their GOT character and spice up the game.(/ooc)

[hoopsguy]

I think sending Ser Gregor to try and take lands would be a great idea. I am hoping to try and find Jamie at some point today. Also what are you planning to do Grandfather?

If eligible to do so, I'll be happy to act as an emissary.
If not, I would be happy to join Gregor in gaining lands. In tandem, if that is an option.
I'm also up for spending some of my capital on services today; perhaps Littlefinger as an act of building trust with him?

[hoopsguy]

Until getting a ruling on emissary status from Chief, I'm going to hold off on sending another PM via Hand abilities. I don't want to gain false advantage; similarly, I don't want to disqualify myself from emissary status by playing by published rules only to be undone by later added rules/clarifications (Hand loses PM when off at other camp).

[Julio Riddols]

I'm ready for anything, and I agree with the angle of raiding land as well as improving our own. It seems apparent that our enemies are all heavily set on weakening our position by removing me from the field of battle at this point, which is probably sound logic on their parts. If there is one thing I know and know well, it is how to kill a man. I haven't used my PM for the day yet, I want to kind of let things shake out and see who might be the most amenable to listening to what I have to say.

[hoopsguy]

How would you feel about me buying Baelish's spies to get insight into the conversations occurring between Stark/Stannis?

[Julio Riddols]

I've decided to speak with Tyrion about his thoughts on Joffrey remaining on the throne. I think I can convince him to believe he will be better served with the Lannisters in power, and if Jamie never shows himself, perhaps Tyrion can be convinced to bend his knee in his stead.

Perhaps if Melisandre is determined to be a traitor to the realm we can send Jamie to capture her so we can take her head.

[Julio Riddols]

How would you feel about me buying Baelish's spies to get insight into the conversations occurring between Stark/Stannis?

I have a hard time trusting Baelish, but I think Stannis is definitely making it a point to try and forge an alliance with the people he thinks can help him most because he doesn't have the strength he needs to take us on by himself. I think the Stark contingent is a more honorable group, but the fact still stands that they do not agree with Joffrey sitting on the throne. We may be better served by sending a maester to see exactly what our opponents are working with this early in the game. I think if we get an idea where they are starting from, we will have a better idea what they will have when we inevitably have to eliminate their threat to us.

[hoopsguy]

I suspect Jamie would do very well in that role.
I think Tyrion is a fine choice, and someone who will likely wield influence in the larger conversations.

[Julio Riddols]

If I am to raid, I believe Duskendale would be the best target.

[Julio Riddols]

Also, failing Tyrion, maybe trying to make amends with Ser Barristan would be worth a look.

[Chief Rum]

Chief Rum -
- can we attack any lands? Is there any kind of distance penalty or do we more or less have freedom of movement around Westeros from day-to-day? Not sure if there is a map and movement rates ... I know there is already a ton of other content in the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't part of it.
- Is there any bonus in attacking a land with more than one bannerman? For example, if I joined Clegor in attacking a land would there be greater benefit than just the sum of our men?
- Would the spoils be split equally among the two attackers? Do we need to name the size of our attacking force, or is it assumed that we move with our entire army?
- Is there any danger of capture or death when raiding lands?


--No distance penalty--attack/raid where you want.
--No bonus. It would be treated like two separate raids, and if they target the same land, for sure, one of those raids would fail. Only one raid will possibly succeed on a given land in a given day.
--Assumed that the raiding party consists of that Lord's entire retinue of men (yes, I know no one raids with 20K-30K men, bear with me, lol)
--No chance of death. There is a very small chance of capture.

[Chief Rum]

I have PMd greenbeans.

Hopefully we will hear from her soon.

[hoopsguy]

I got a PM from Renly/path indicating that they are willing to have a conversation around alliance - it seems they fear the Stannis/Robb movement just as we do. He suspects that Clegor is doomed for today; I can try to sway him on that on an emissary junket. I'm planning to put that in motion in the next hour, barring any strong feelings against it posted in this thread.

Finally, I would suggest that Clegor complete his raid ASAP and that Joffrey hold his Jamie vote until late in the day in the event it can swing the election. If it is useless, don't expend the effort and inadvertently remind other kings of this capability.

For the Maester option, who would you have me scan? I'm fine with doing this in lieu of spies/Baelish. The Baelish piece was more motivated on indirectly notifying Baelish of our desire to work with him.

[Julio Riddols]

Well, I appear to be a man at the mercy of the wind at this point. I plan to continue to support the crowns interests to the best of my abilities if I must flee. I will complete my raid and let fate decide from there.

As for who I would take a look at, I would suggest Stannis. I think he will be the most aggressive in trying to attain the crown and probably the most active opposition as well.. I will be spending my days trying to undermine his factions every move since he was the one to call for my head.

[Julio Riddols]

I don't know if Joffrey has to send me on the raid, but I am certainly interested in capturing some land for him before I have to go alone. I will submit the instructions to complete the raid on Duskendale.

[hoopsguy]

I will now complete my mission to chat with Renly, as well as submitting an order to profile Stannis.

[hoopsguy]

If possible, I'll see if we can get this to turn into a 2:2 house collision tonight and hope that the neutrals can save Clegor. But I have doubts about that coming to fruition.

[hoopsguy]

I'm looking to get clarification on whether I can order myself as emissary or whether Joffrey needs to send me. From reading the rules, it sounds like the latter.

If it is the former, you'll see a post about it in the general thread as I won't be able to post in here.

[Julio Riddols]

I too am waiting for clarification on something. It may make a huge difference.

[Zinto]

I am back friends and I am catching up.

[Zinto]

Are we set on Ser Gregor raiding and Grandfather going to Renly?

My other question is for Chief Rum; can a bannerman be held hostage if he goes to as an emissary?

[Julio Riddols]

Seems we're all waiting for clarification from Chief on something. I'm guessing it will take him some time to answer all the questions.

[Julio Riddols]

I think we are set on those ideas, however. I have already submitted my intent to complete the task of raiding Duskendale.

[hoopsguy]

Are we set on Ser Gregor raiding and Grandfather going to Renly?

My other question is for Chief Rum; can a bannerman be held hostage if he goes to as an emissary?

I believe you need to order me visiting Renly. I've asked for clarification on it, but if you post it as an order in the thread I'll immediately begin reaching out to Renly.

I certainly hope that I cannot be held hostage as a by-product of a visit.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I got a PM from Robb Stark. He indicated that forces are aligning against us to remove Joffrey from the throne - more or less a temperature check for what my thoughts were. I cautioned him against his allegiance with Stannis, reminding him that there can only be only one king. Stannis is both unwilling to share and potentially able to deal with Robb (or any king, bannerman, or neutral potentially) in ways that represent a unique threat. We'll see if that notion weighs on him at all. I want to sow the seeds of discord between those houses.

[Zinto]

I will send Tywin Lannister/Chief Rum as an emissary to Renly Bareaheon.

Please try to sway him into voting Melisandre.

[Julio Riddols]

Hopefully planting the seed early will have them at each others throats fairly soon. In the mean time, we can focus on winning Renlys trust so that we can tap him for the advantage of his men, land and wealth when he least expects it.

[Chief Rum]

Are we set on Ser Gregor raiding and Grandfather going to Renly?

My other question is for Chief Rum; can a bannerman be held hostage if he goes to as an emissary?

Damn it all to hell. You found the one thing I did NOT plan for in the rules. Lol.

No, emmissaries are safe. They'll return.

[Chief Rum]

I will send Tywin Lannister/Chief Rum as an emissary to Renly Bareaheon.

Please try to sway him into voting Melisandre.

Tywin Lannister (hoopsguy) has left the war camp on an errand.

[Chief Rum]

I will send Tywin Lannister/Chief Rum as an emissary to Renly Bareaheon.

Please try to sway him into voting Melisandre.

Sorry, I am much too busy monitoring PMs to stand in Tywin's stead with King Renly. :D

[Julio Riddols]

Ok, I have my answer, and here is my plan. I have received an offer from Renly's camp to join their group after being declared an enemy of the realm. If they are honest and truthful in their offer, I will become a bannerman of Renly, privy to all his information. I will be able to warn you of impending attacks or actions against you with code words. I will post those codewords later. First, the maiin idea: I can become a member of King Joffreys bannermen again if I am picked up by Renly and my honor is restored. You can use me as an inside source for info with the help of my code words, and hopefully use that knowledge to defeat Renly and seize his assets for our benefit.

Heres the fun/tricky part. In order to help them avoid paying the fee to acquire me and restore my honor, I am going to transfer all my gold to Renly shortly before the deadline in what will appear to be an act of betrayal. I will be doing that privately, but I am telling you here, I only have 5000 gold, so it isn't a ton of wealth.

I will devise some code words to use to describe certain events or actions that Renly Baratheon and his ilk may be aspiring to, then post them here.

[Julio Riddols]

If Renly plans to do any of the following, I will use the exact phrase next to these in the main forum hidden within a seemingly regular post as a warning. I will also try to include the name of the place or person the attack is aimed at somewhere in the post.

An attack on our land: "Renly is an honest and just man and would make a fine king."

An attempt to spy on us: "I would not trust any man who plays the Game of Thrones."

An attempt to ally with another kingdom: "My sword thirsts for blood."

Any other action that may have a consequence negative to the Lannister banner: "I care not for politics."

Are there any other things you want me to have a phrase for? At 10:00 PM I plan to move the money and signal to them my interest in joining their cause. I will be sure and relay any information we have discussed to them truthfully and accurately. *wink*

[Julio Riddols]

That is, unless you have better ideas.

[Zinto]

No, your plan will work fine. If we succeed a better amount of land and a wardenship will be yours. I thank you for your openness about what is going on. My only fear is that some other group will catch you before you are able to join up with Renly.

[Zinto]

I would also advise you to use your right to a raven if things look south for us Lannisters.

[Julio Riddols]

I'll do my best to end up in the right hands, my king. Wish me well.

[Zinto]

To be a Lannister and alone. It is a tough life. I hope nothing happened to greenbeans and she is ok wherever she may be.

[Chief Rum]

greenbeans is being replaced by bhlloy as Jaime Lannister.

Welcome to the game, bhlloy and good luck!

[bhlloy]

What's up everyone? Tryin to get caught up this afternoon while at work

[bhlloy]

Can somebody catch me up briefly?

[bhlloy]

So it seems from a brief scan that I am leading so far today. I assume that we really don't want to go down another person. I also have a special ability as kingslayer that I am very powerful in war, which I would have thought makes me even more valuable.

So - if I do get voted tonight, should I come to Joffrey and try to stay in the house? Narc seems to have been pushing hard for that, and seems to make sense to me. Otherwise we are in a lot of trouble

[Zinto]

Sorry Uncle Jamie that I have been gone all day. You may end up the target of today's vote but if that is the case I implore you to give me your trust. I will retain your services for sure since I cannot be without another bannerman.

[Zinto]

Oh and it seems everyone hates us because we are of a higher breed then them. As lions we have struggled to gain support.

[Zinto]

Hey Chief can I give Jamie some of my soldiers so he can perform a raid for me?

[bhlloy]

Not sure if I can do that while I'm the lynch, or if it's even advisable given the state we are in.

Anybody have an alternate strategy, other than Joffrey pardons me and we weaken ourselves even more?

FWIW, I have no soldiers or ships although I have a decent amount of gold. As mentioned before, I'm more powerful than the other bannermen when it comes to war. Nothing else special about me as far as I can tell.

[Zinto]

Unfortunately it is just us in here. If I pardon you I only lose honor and we do not know the effect of that currently. I need to do so or I have little chance for the crown.

[Chief Rum]

Hey Chief can I give Jamie some of my soldiers so he can perform a raid for me?

Yes, you can give him soldiers to do this.

The raid does happen after the Enemy of the realm vote, though.

[bhlloy]

Probably not a good idea then Zinto

[Zinto]

I am waiting on giving you soldiers. I have a need for you on my court, the honor thing does not scare me. Tomorrow I will donate money to the small folk so that I can regain some if not all of the honor hit.

[bhlloy]

How much cash do we currently have between us?

[Zinto]

I have a few times more gold then you have on hand right now. I will be more open with my cash on hand once you are securely back as a member of my bannerman.

[hoopsguy]

If Renly plans to do any of the following, I will use the exact phrase next to these in the main forum hidden within a seemingly regular post as a warning. I will also try to include the name of the place or person the attack is aimed at somewhere in the post.

An attack on our land: "Renly is an honest and just man and would make a fine king."

An attempt to spy on us: "I would not trust any man who plays the Game of Thrones."

An attempt to ally with another kingdom: "My sword thirsts for blood."

Any other action that may have a consequence negative to the Lannister banner: "I care not for politics."

Are there any other things you want me to have a phrase for? At 10:00 PM I plan to move the money and signal to them my interest in joining their cause. I will be sure and relay any information we have discussed to them truthfully and accurately. *wink*

Well done, Ser Gregor. It appears that Joffrey and Jamie were better aware of events of the day than I was while in Renly's camp.

[hoopsguy]

I've got some information on our friend Stannis. He has a pretty huge fleet, it was 57 at this time yesterday and grows by seven per day.

In terms of troops and wealth, I personally have more men than him (although he gains faster, via tithe) and I had more wealth yesterday but with the tithe he should have passed me, assuming no major expenses.

I had constructed a "blow up the game" scenario earlier this evening, in the event that I returned home to find that my liege was the only person remaining in our proud house. I'm glad we will not need to execute it just yet.

[hoopsguy]

So, here is what I was able to deduce from conversations with Renly.

He was open to alliance with us, but relied greatly on the council of his bannermen. It may have been a ruse, but I was able to observe from afar (last poster on their house thread) that he initiated many conversations immediately following my missives. I trust him more than the other two pretenders, although that is damning with very faint praise.

He did not share the Gregor scenario with me, but did indicate that he felt compelled to split their votes today as his Hand was aligning with Stark/Stannis (Courtney was at House stark, and cast the first vote against Jamie) and his bannermen were split. He fully understood that if we could not present a united front that Jamie was doomed. I indicated that we would still receive an emissary today, but the reception would almost certainly be cooler if we felt their actions contributed to a 2nd Lannister Enemy of the Realm.

Roose asked me to visit Robb Stark today. I told him I was unable to do so, since I was visiting Renly. I suggested that we could expedite the parlay process if they sent a man to visit Joffrey.

After votes began to accumulate against Jamie I received notice from Robb indicating that our house was doomed and that I should seek refuge elsewhere ... preferably with House Stark. I suggested that if Jamie were to be declared an Enemy of the State today I would hold him personally accountable and that it would effectively end any chances of me ever aligning with him. He proceeded to vote for me, others followed, and I began plotting the "blow up the game" options that involved creating the most possible pain for House Stark.

Varys also is curious why neither of us have contacted him yet. But he said nothing of substance in his letter and I was not moved to reply. (ooc)ran out of time, wasn't around until immediately after deadline(/ooc)

[hoopsguy]

I would like to offer JAG the opportunity to flee House Stark to come here. What inducements do you think we could put before him that would make it appealing?

Harrenhal, if he is as loyal to the literature as every seems to want to be when voting for the Lannisters ...

Looking to make these decisions fairly quickly, as the decision rests with the enemy of the state and I don't want Robb/Roose to quickly come to agreement without us having our offer out first.

[Zinto]

I would like to offer JAG the opportunity to flee House Stark to come here. What inducements do you think we could put before him that would make it appealing?

Harrenhal, if he is as loyal to the literature as every seems to want to be when voting for the Lannisters ...

Looking to make these decisions fairly quickly, as the decision rests with the enemy of the state and I don't want Robb/Roose to quickly come to agreement without us having our offer out first.


I think an offer of Harrenhal, as well as being our third bannerman and Warden of the North a long with some sort of gold sum could persuade him to join our ranks.

[hoopsguy]

THE LANDS OF WESTEROS

HOUSE STARK

King Robb Stark (CW)-- Winterfell (family home), Riverrun, The Twins and Deepwood Motte.
Roose Bolton(JAG)-- The Dreadfort (family home)
Rickard Karstark (MrBug708)-- The Karhold (family home)


HOUSE LANNISTER

King Joffrey Baratheon (Zinto)-- King's Landing, Harrenhal, Crakehall and Fairhaven
Tywin Lannister (hoopsguy)-- Casterly Rock (family home)
Ser Gregor Clegane (Julio Riddols)-- Clegane's Keep (family home)


HOUSE BARATHEON OF DRAGONSTONE

King Stannis Baratheon (Autumn)-- Dragonstone (family home), Maidenpool and Duskendale
Ser Davos Seaworth (InBlue)-- Cape Wrath (family home)
Ser Axell Florent (claphamsa)-- Brightwater Keep (family home)


HOUSE BARATHEON OF STORM'S END

King Renly Baratheon (path12)-- Storm's End (family home), Summerhall, Blackhaven, The Arbor
Ser Loras Tyrell (murrayyyyy)-- Highgarden (family home)
Ser Cortnay Penrose (Darth Vilus)-- Parchments (family home)




Quoted for ease of reference.
Roose is active now, Robb does not appear to be so. I do not wish to seize authority that is not mine to offer, but I believe speed is of the essence. I plan to send this offer to Roose in the next twenty minutes unless someone arrives here to suggest an alternate approach.

[Zinto]

I need to talk to Varys it was my mistake today as I forgot I could contact him and I was gone for most of the day.

[hoopsguy]

I think an offer of Harrenhal, as well as being our third bannerman and Warden of the North a long with some sort of gold sum could persuade him to join our ranks.

Perfect, your arrival is timely.

Warden of the North, of course, would be contingent upon us acquiring that title from Robb Stark.

Do you think 20,000 gold would be a sufficient inducement? If he joins, he would bring a keen mind and I expect would be a good bannerman. I also hope he would leap at the opportunity to pen his name in the history books. I'll put up 10K if you can match that amount? For what it is worth, I strongly believe our house has the greatest starting gold.

Seeing as how he had already contacted me would you be opposed to me using my raven for the day to deliver the offer?

[hoopsguy]

It is pretty clear to me that Brienne of Tarth is powerfully upset with Stannis. The remaining bannermen for Renly are not present to take part in their house discussions. And Brienne has more messages on this topic in the last hour than she accumulated in the two days prior.

[Zinto]

Perfect, your arrival is timely.

Warden of the North, of course, would be contingent upon us acquiring that title from Robb Stark.

Do you think 20,000 gold would be a sufficient inducement? If he joins, he would bring a keen mind and I expect would be a good bannerman. I also hope he would leap at the opportunity to pen his name in the history books. I'll put up 10K if you can match that amount? For what it is worth, I strongly believe our house has the greatest starting gold.

Seeing as how he had already contacted me would you be opposed to me using my raven for the day to deliver the offer?

I can definitely post the other half of the 10k gold. I believe it would be best if we waited until he joined with us to give him the gold, so it i snot wasted in restoring his honor.

Of course tell him Warden of the North will be given to him once the false King Stark is dead and if he needs more he can gain practice by becoming Warden of the West until we obtain the Warden of the North title.

[hoopsguy]

I can definitely post the other half of the 10k gold. I believe it would be best if we waited until he joined with us to give him the gold, so it i snot wasted in restoring his honor.

Of course tell him Warden of the North will be given to him once the false King Stark is dead and if he needs more he can gain practice by becoming Warden of the West until we obtain the Warden of the North title.

Agreed on all counts.
Would you prefer to contact him directly or shall I? Obviously one of us would no longer have the ability to initiate contact via raven for the next 23 hours.

[Zinto]

It is pretty clear to me that Brienne of Tarth is powerfully upset with Stannis. The remaining bannermen for Renly are not present to take part in their house discussions. And Brienne has more messages on this topic in the last hour than she accumulated in the two days prior.


Yes she was the first to speak out against Stannis. She is probably going to be a powerful ally against him going forward.

[hoopsguy]

Also, do we offer 10K gold to come, or 20K gold (10K apiece)?
We have one shot here - money doesn't move if he refuses. If he accepts, I expect he would work with us to put the money to best possible use.

[Zinto]

Agreed on all counts.
Would you prefer to contact him directly or shall I? Obviously one of us would no longer have the ability to initiate contact via raven for the next 23 hours.


I believe that you have a much better way with words then I and are seen to be more trustworthy of most of the men in the kingdom, so thus I believe you should contact him.

[Zinto]

Also, do we offer 10K gold to come, or 20K gold (10K apiece)?
We have one shot here - money doesn't move if he refuses. If he accepts, I expect he would work with us to put the money to best possible use.


The 20k gold should be the offer.

[Zinto]

We will also not send it to him until he arrives in our camp.

[hoopsguy]

I believe that you have a much better way with words then I and are seen to be more trustworthy of most of the men in the kingdom, so thus I believe you should contact him.

Sending it now.
I would be excited if this came to pass.

[hoopsguy]

It is done.

[Zinto]

Well then hopefully it falls into place. Jamie will hopefully be left to my mercy and we can send him to retrieve Roose tomorrow, if all goes as plan.

[hoopsguy]

As an aside, I will be called upon to traverse the lands (run a 5K race) tomorrow evening. As a result, I will not be around for several hours leading up to the deadline. Would you prefer that I hold my vote so you can ensure it will have meaning later in the process?

[Zinto]

Yes please. I would hate for your vote to be wasted on someone who is not in the running down the line.

[Zinto]

Also, good luck and have fun in your 5k!

[hoopsguy]

If you wish to assure Jamie, you could make your decision first so he knows publicly that he'll be welcome here even as an enemy of the state.

[Chief Rum]

Tywin Lannister has returned to camp from being an emmissary.

[Chief Rum]

Fairhaven has been raided by unknown raiders!

The holding lost half of its gold and trained men and no ships were produced there.

[hoopsguy]

A very quiet day for House Lannister, it would appear.

I've heard nothing from JAG, but the note posted by Chief Rum would suggest that he has selected another option.

If you have not heard from any other heads of state, and the votes turn against me this afternoon while I am away then I have a particularly aggressive scenario that I would very much consider executing. Joffrey, please let me know which of the houses you detest the most - no answer would mean that I proceed with House Stark.

[Zinto]

It has been a quiet day so far. I believe if we are going to go after a house in an exploding situation it should be the Starks. I hope that the Renly vs. Stannis battle continues and we can survive another day.

[Zinto]

It also seems that Renly sent a member of his bannerman here but I have yet to hear from him. Has he contacted you Grandfather?

[hoopsguy]

Little Bird Report...

There seem to be more rumors aflutter about the kingdom today...

Rumors

...Cersei Lannister desires, more than anything else, to be Hand to the King, replacing her father, and thus rule the Seven Kingdoms...

...There are rumblings of mysterious unknown forces in the northwest...

...House Lannister is well aware of the strength of Dragonstone's assets...

...Foreign emissaries have been seen in the Red Keep. A chambermaid told her friends that she saw the emissaries entering the depths of the Keep. The chambermaid heard the foreigners talking with Lord Varys and Tyrion Lannister...

...a certain Young Wolf has been chattering away with multiple Lions yesterday...

...Some in the Lannister camp believe Lady Melisandre has the ability to remove a king...

...Tywin Lannister refers to Joffrey Lannister as "worthless toad" and "a spoiled 12 year old" in private and states that his loyalty is less than absolute...



Well, that is indeed interesting. I wanted to see if my words had been taken out of context or if these were entirely fabrications.

From my communications with Robb Stark:
"so too is this Joffrey not quite the worthless toad that others believe him to be"

and
"we will not devolve into a reactive, infantile house ruled by the whim of a spoiled 12 year old. Just understand that the voice you are expecting from Joffrey is not what is being delivered in our communications."

I would expect that fully quoting my own words - whether you believe them or not - is acceptable etiquette.

All of this was in response to suggestions that Zinto is playing Joffrey like GRRM's Joffrey, instead of actually trying to win a werewolf game of political intrigue.

And my loyalty is less than absolute. I'm absolutely looking for ways for House Lannister and Joffrey to prevail, but I'm also looking to avoid seeing my head severed from its body by one of the pretender rulers. That said, every action that I've taken since the start of the game has been to further both House Lannister and Joffrey's rules, as they are tightly coupled.

I can comment on this in the general thread if you would like, but I figured that it was more important to speak frankly and directly with our family. If the outsiders wish to use these rumors to further their own agendas, so be it ... it matters not as long as we do not allow them to create discord.

[Zinto]

Any thoughts on the day Jamie? Are you still around?

[hoopsguy]

It also seems that Renly sent a member of his bannerman here but I have yet to hear from him. Has he contacted you Grandfather?

No, I have yet to hear from anyone today. Eerily quiet.

[hoopsguy]

If they did in fact send an emissary, that person would visit the king and have unlimited PM rights. I know that the Renly's emissaries are collectively not online for much of the day ... with that in mind, I hope it is Brienne and that she brings good tidings. The extended day would work to our advantage, based on my knowledge of her movements.

[Zinto]

Well, that is indeed interesting. I wanted to see if my words had been taken out of context or if these were entirely fabrications.

From my communications with Robb Stark:
"so too is this Joffrey not quite the worthless toad that others believe him to be"

and
"we will not devolve into a reactive, infantile house ruled by the whim of a spoiled 12 year old. Just understand that the voice you are expecting from Joffrey is not what is being delivered in our communications."

I would expect that fully quoting my own words - whether you believe them or not - is acceptable etiquette.

All of this was in response to suggestions that Zinto is playing Joffrey like GRRM's Joffrey, instead of actually trying to win a werewolf game of political intrigue.

And my loyalty is less than absolute. I'm absolutely looking for ways for House Lannister and Joffrey to prevail, but I'm also looking to avoid seeing my head severed from its body by one of the pretender rulers. That said, every action that I've taken since the start of the game has been to further both House Lannister and Joffrey's rules, as they are tightly coupled.

I can comment on this in the general thread if you would like, but I figured that it was more important to speak frankly and directly with our family. If the outsiders wish to use these rumors to further their own agendas, so be it ... it matters not as long as we do not allow them to create discord.


I trust you as much as one can trust a bannerman in this game. I have no doubt the Varys can view a certain number of ravens a day and then spread rumors from those letters.

Honestly without your vote, your men and your gold my shot at the throne is dead so I have to have faith in you. No rumor is going to make me doubt you.

[Zinto]

It is also unfortunate that Roose decided not to take us up on our offer. I think I may have you and Ser Jamie raid some Stark or Stannis land tonight so that we can hopefully do some damage.

[bhlloy]

I'm pretty quiet during the day, as im just on my phone at work. I would agree on the face of it that we should raid Stannis tonight. Ill post more couple hours before deadline when i get home

[hoopsguy]

Some additional info on Robb Stark: He has 35K in treasury, but is getting nearly 20K per day. He has invested in his land Winterfall for additional gold and men ... an investment that seems to be paying off handsomely, at least in comparison to what I saw for Stannis' funds. At 19K additional gold per day, along with 1350 men, that growth dwarfs (why would I use that word, given my last son?) the daily numbers from Casterly Rock. 23,000 men. No ships.

[hoopsguy]

It is also unfortunate that Roose decided not to take us up on our offer. I think I may have you and Ser Jamie raid some Stark or Stannis land tonight so that we can hopefully do some damage.

It concerns me because it suggests that he has a high level of confidence for the plans Stark has concocted. If he felt that there was a leadership void, I would expect that he would have joined us.

I'm considering the purchase of an assassin; I expect that will be the direction I go if we get to a point where another Lannister is declared Enemy of the Realm on Day 3.

[Zinto]

I'm pretty quiet during the day, as im just on my phone at work. I would agree on the face of it that we should raid Stannis tonight. Ill post more couple hours before deadline when i get home


No worries the next deadline is not until 5 PM tomorrow.

[Zinto]

Some additional info on Robb Stark: He has 35K in treasury, but is getting nearly 20K per day. He has invested in his land Winterfall for additional gold and men ... an investment that seems to be paying off handsomely, at least in comparison to what I saw for Stannis' funds. At 19K additional gold per day, along with 1350 men, that growth dwarfs (why would I use that word, given my last son?) the daily numbers from Casterly Rock. 23,000 men. No ships.


I think I should probably invest in Harrenhal, and Kings Landing then. Probably twice(if I can do so in one day) so that we rake in the gold and men.

[bhlloy]

I think the rumblings of mysterious forces in the NW is very interesting. Suggests at some point we will be fighting against more than each other

[hoopsguy]

Everyone sending emissaries to everyone but us sounds very bad for Day 4 - you know, the first day that war can be declared.

We almost certainly need to send an emissary out to one of the rulers; I suspect we have to continue to pursue the Renly angle with hopes that he is truly frosted with Stannis. I think we would also have to promise him that we would go after Stannis instead of Stark.

I'm not going to have much availability for the remainder of the day. If you want me to play this role I can do so, but won't be able to really start the communications until roughly midnight EST which will leave a relatively small window of time.

[bhlloy]

My thought is that the Renly and Stannis argument might be a ruse to weaken us more. I was approached by Brienne last night and told that if I fled and transferred them a sum of gold to prove my intentions, what happened to Gregor wouldn't happen to me. I wonder if the "argument" in thread wasn't for my benefit and the three really are united against us in private.

[hoopsguy]

If the three houses are dead set on eliminating us first, there isn't a whole lot we can do to stop them. We'll continue to get beat up on the Enemy of the Realm, we'll have three people raiding us, etc ...

Renly is the only one who I've had discussions with where the premise wasn't "bail on your king to join our house", so that is why I've been of the opinion that he is our best hope.

For what it is worth, there was some internal dissension in their bannerman's ranks on how to proceed yesterday. Early on Brienne appeared to be leaning towards Stannis, but they were quite upset about Gregor being executed. Look at the votes in the thread after that transpired - Brienne votes Stannis, Renly votes Stannis, Renly commits Loras to vote Stannis. So I do not believe that was strictly for show.

But with the extended day, and zero communication with our house today, I fear that the Baratheon's are mending their fences and all three houses will soon be coming for us.

[Zinto]

Loras Tyrell has finally contacted me. I am trying to negotiate an alliance between us and Renly.

[bhlloy]

Seems like our only hope, so offer what you need. Given what happens in the book/show, you should sell them that we'll go after Stannis and Melissandre again. I suspect that Melissandre may have sort of special ability that she can use against Renly and if that's something they haven't thought of, we should plant the seed.

I hope if we can stay in one piece until day 4 we'll still be in pretty good shape if we can ally with another house.

[hoopsguy]

So assuming that the enemy is going to try and push us around together, here is how I expect it would go down.

Stannis will declare war on us tomorrow, picking a coastal region. We will have to push back for a day, or else face his overwhelming number of ships. That would be a very difficult battle to win; we would have to push back to Day 5. We would then choose a non-coastal land, and all three of the enemies would descend on us like locusts.

So we need to get Renly, who is likely to have the largest army, to see that this is not an ideal scenario for him. In fact, this is likely where he gets betrayed by Robb Stark and Stannis, who will force him to expend more men while they sit back with trivial forces. Renly + Lannister battle, lose bannermen, and the soldier count gets to a level more in line with what Robb Stark and Stannis can manage for the next round of war.

Renly's option to mitigate this is to side with us on Day 5, help us route them on the field of battle, and we then begin taking the war to Robb/Stannis. That is what you must impress upon Ser Loras and we must confirm this with Renly tomorrow - assuming, of course, that the enemy does proceed with a coastal attack from Stannis.

Thoughts?

[hoopsguy]

So it would appear that the only people who can engage the Bank of Braavosare kings.

Joffrey, if we get to a point where this becomes untenable I'm not sure you need to be worried about the other houses getting an additional 100K to attack you if you were to default on the loan. But the 100K you borrow might be useful in ... well, many ways, but if the cause is lost, then taking a couple of men down with you?

[hoopsguy]

Also, I'm very interested to learn if there has been any progress in conversations with Ser Loras. From what I have observed from afar, the two of you have rarely been about at the same time. Which does not seem ideal for rapid communication and agreement ... the type I fear is happening with Renly and the other houses.

[hoopsguy]

If sufficient movement has not been made with Ser Loras, would one of you have a raven to send directly to Renly identifying the risks I outlined earlier this morning (post #155)? Sadly, I do not have any birds to let loose as I wasted mine in an effort to secure Roose Bolton.

[Zinto]

It moves but you are right it moves slowly. I am going to be in and out much of the day since I am doing odd jobs today. I will try to check in every hour though

[hoopsguy]

I suspect the real action begins on Day 4 - Stannis will declare coastal war at that time. At that point, the clock is ticking.

[Zinto]

Are you going to be around Hoops? I really did not want to do this but if you are do you want to go sup with Renly?

[hoopsguy]

I can, although I've got a couple of works calls that I need to address. I will be around for about the last 90 minutes of this day, hopefully able to give this quite a bit of attention.

We also need to find an alternative to me for enemy of the realm. I'm expecting the other three families to be pretty united against us from what I've seen so far.

Last note - anything you can tell me about the conversations with Ser Loras that I should know sitting down with Renly?

[hoopsguy]

If I'm to act as emissary to Renly, I hope that others have their actions in already.

I'll set out somewhere around 3:30 PM EST if I don't have word to abort.
I'll assume we can proceed with the communications, even though Chief will not be here to officially post in the main thread that our flags are flying in their lands.

[Zinto]

I never sent in the order sent in the order and since Renly just voted for you I want to make sure you think it is best to go there or if we should discuss other options

[hoopsguy]

No, I don't think there is any value in approaching Renly at this point. We need to change some minds between now and the battle on Day 5. Today is lost. I would rather take an action raiding lands or something along those lines.

[hoopsguy]

Added for future reference:
It was brought to my attention that you don't have a cocnept of how large and small lands are, or what are coastal or inland. That seems rather silly to me, so here is that information.

These land rankings are based only on how they are overall producing gold and men, not ships (which not all lands produce). The lands are shown in alphabetical order in their groupings, so do not take the order I put them in as indicating a rank within that group.

The Lands in Blue are Coastal lands, and the Lands in Green are Inland only (unable to produce ships).

THE RICHEST LANDS

Casterly Rock, Highgarden, King's Landing, Riverrun, Storm's End, Winterfell

WEALTHY LANDS

Brightwater Keep, Dragonstone, The Dreadfort, Harrenhal

PRODUCTIVE LANDS

Blackhaven, Duskendale, The Karhold, Maidenpool

MODERATE LANDS

The Arbor, Crakehall, Summerhall, The Twins

POOREST LANDS

Clegane's Keep, Deepwood Motte, Fairhaven, Parchments, Cape Wrath




Seeing as how Robb Stark has no ships, I'm somewhat inclined to raid Stark coastal territories.

[hoopsguy]

Wondering if anyone is around for Memorial Day weekend. Was not a lot of conversation on Friday, even less since then.

[bhlloy]

I'm around, but doesn't feel like there's much I can be doing or contributing to be honest.

[Zinto]

I am back around. Sorry I wasn't on much Friday or the weekend. The ball is in your court though Grandfather.

[hoopsguy]

So the honor hit for having two enemies of the realm is pretty severe.

Is there any added value for Joffrey (and, by extension, House Lannister) for him to either disavow or release me rather than me fleeing?

Does either of those decisions impact the transfer of 50% money/men as a condition of departure?

I don't think we're going to be whole with both Jamie and I around at this point, barring steps to clear our name. Willing to put some time into brainstorming around this if either of you get here between now and deadline.

Absent that discussion, I'm probably going to flee and try to convince myself it has value both for me and for the Lannister family.

[Zinto]

It is probably for the best if you run away, as I am not sure what else you can do for us. I am probably going down with this sinking ship as that is probably the only way I do not loose my head in this game.

[Zinto]

And as long as I am in power I do not see anyone chopping off your head because then I would gain Casterly Rock

[hoopsguy]

Yep, if the penalty for keeping me is a 40% tax then I've got limited value despite having wealth, troops, ships, etc. One of the other factions will face this penalty shortly and I'll be interested to see how they manage the process.

If you are "going down with this sinking ship" then use the coin I provide you to hire an assassin and accelerate the decay of one of the other houses. I would be concerned about using the assassin against another king, but suspect that the chances for success would be quite high for bannermen.

Don't hit an enemy of realm bannerman; don't make life easier for those kings to regain honor.

[hoopsguy]

Also, in any conversations with Renly/Robb, remind them that they have no hope for a naval victory against Stannis without your aid.

[Zinto]

Also, in any conversations with Renly/Robb, remind them that they have no hope for a naval victory against Stannis without your aid.


Thank you Grandfather, I have appreciated your council in this uphill battle.

[hoopsguy]

At this point, regretful as it may be, I believe that I must take my leave of House Lannister. We Lannisters always pay our debts, so I hope you are able to put the gold, men, and ships to good use.

Together or separately, we must find a way to restore the Lannister name in Westeros. For the time, it must be separately.

[Chief Rum]

Tywin Lanniser has fled!

He is no longer a member of House Lannister.

King Joffrey, you are without a Hand now and may select another from your bannermen.

[Zinto]

I will make Bhlloy/Jamie Lannister my hand.

[Chief Rum]

Jaime Lannister has left the Lannister camp on an unknown errand.

[Zinto]

My camp is lonely. Oh, so lonely.

[Julio Riddols]

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

[Zinto]

I apologize that I never send a raven back. I will post more for you to see later!