2013-14 NBA Offseason/Draft Thread

[Groundhog]

Woo Hoo Cavs picking #1!!! I'm wary of big skinny guys coming off injuries, but no question he's the clear #1 in this crop.

[bulletsponge]

nothing says "cant miss" like and injured big man

[JonInMiddleGA]

Starting at center ... Sam Bowie

[cartman]

Yeah, the jury is still out on the Oden vs. Durant debate.

[Lathum]

If I'm the cabs I take Mclemore. Much safer pick for a team that needs guys on the court.

None of it matters anyway. Unless you get that once every 5-8 year player then some other stars to come along you aren't going to compete for a title. Of LeBron couldn't get guys to Clevelsnd no one can

[Groundhog]

Yeah he's an injured bigman, but I don't see any reason to assume he's got anything like the issues that Bowie or Oden had/have. Honestly, I feel this is an unimpressive draft and Noel has more boom potential than the other guys, none of whom are slamdunks like Durant was.

[Swaggs]

The bigger issue may be that he needs to gain 50 lbs in order to matchup with other NBA centers.

[Danny]

None of it matters anyway. Unless you get that once every 5-8 year player then some other stars to come along you aren't going to compete for a title. Of LeBron couldn't get guys to Clevelsnd no one can

I disagree. With their young guys, especially a guy like Kyrie Irving, the Cavs could be title contenders if they hit it big with this pick once the Heat start to slow down in a couple of years.

[Kodos]

If Oladipo goes to Phoenix, that'd be great.

[korme]

Wow, tons of Noel haters. I actually expect him to be more of a stretch 4, at least entering the league. But that team of Waiters, Thompson, Irving and Noel can be really nice.

The real winners, of course, are the lucky crew that have the ball bounce their way next offseason.

[Lathum]

I disagree. With their young guys, especially a guy like Kyrie Irving, the Cavs could be title contenders if they hit it big with this pick once the Heat start to slow down in a couple of years.

And by then Irving will be looking to get the hell out of Cleveland.

[JPhillips]

Wizards have their first good draft luck in ages and it happens in a crap draft. Porter might be a nice fit with Wall and Beal, but he looks like a good player rather than an All-Star.

[RedKingGold]

The real winners, of course, are the lucky crew that have the ball bounce their way next offseason.

I'm already hoping for a 76ers tank job in 2013-2014.

[Logan]

Kevin Durant’s Giant Back Tattoo Has a Typo | Big Lead Sports (http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/05/22/kevin-durants-giant-back-tattoo-has-a-typo/)

[RainMaker]

Noel seems like a perfect fit for the Cavs.

[mckerney]

Surely it will finally be the Timberwolves turn to win the lottery next year, right? :(

[bulletsponge]

Surely it will finally be the Timberwolves turn to win the lottery next year, right? :(

i thought getting rid of Khan was like winning the lottery already?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Shocking.

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress Phil Pressey struggling so far here at the Nets Combine. Overdribbling, settling for tough jumpers, can't really make a shot. Tough day.

Welcome to all year long at Mizzou. Not sure what the hell people were expecting. He made a mistake leaving, but I'm not sure that his stock would have improved had he stayed at Mizzou.

[QuikSand]

Wizards have their first good draft luck in ages and it happens in a crap draft. Porter might be a nice fit with Wall and Beal, but he looks like a good player rather than an All-Star.

ages? really?

[korme]

I don't know about their odds in previous years, but scheduled to pick 8th and landing the 3rd pick is pretty good.

[QuikSand]

Just seems to me that mentioning John Wall in the very sentence might bring to mind that the Wiz "won" the lottery just three years ago with (I looked this up) the fifth worst record. I think there's a solid argument about the lottery never *really* shining on the Wiz with some combination of Kwame Brown and John Wall and Vesely and maybe Porter and whomever else you want to put into that conversation... but to say the issue is that they never do well recently with lottery pingpong balls doesn't seem fair.

[Atocep]

Wizards have their first good draft luck in ages and it happens in a crap draft. Porter might be a nice fit with Wall and Beal, but he looks like a good player rather than an All-Star.

I like Porter quite a bit. Georgetown's system doesn't really let a player shine offensively and he's a guy that doesn't really have any holes in his game. I think he'll be a better pro than Beal.

[JPhillips]

I like Porter quite a bit. Georgetown's system doesn't really let a player shine offensively and he's a guy that doesn't really have any holes in his game. I think he'll be a better pro than Beal.

I'm afraid he's Tyshaun Prince, a good player, but not enough to make them really dangerous and this is likely the last lottery for them for a while. I'm not sure how they make the jump from 6-8 seed to legit conference contender.

[Groundhog]

It would be interesting if the Wiz moved their pick for Cousins to team him up with Wall. I'm really down on Cousins after this past season, but it might be worth the risk for the Wizards as he's got bigger star potential than whoever they would take with their pick 'if he ever gets it together'.

[mckerney]

i thought getting rid of Khan was like winning the lottery already?

You'd think so, but I dunno. I think this managed to cover being a Timberwolves fan amazingly well.

The Minnesota Timberwolves Fan's Guide to the Five Stages of Post-Lottery Grief - The Triangle Blog - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/62962/the-minnesota-timberwolves-fans-guide-to-the-five-stages-of-post-lottery-grief)

Rooting for the Timberwolves feels like you're stuck in a prison, only the prison has no guards because nobody's forcing you to stay in prison. I just realized that's a terrible analogy because if there's one thing the Timberwolves do have in abundance, it's guards. Holy shit, why do we have so many guards? And why are they all white? How the fuck do you expect to win in the NBA in the 21st century when your entire starting five consists of white dudes? Thank god they fired David Kahn. Ndudi Ebi. Jesus Christ, what a train wreck. [Editor's note: Due to certain decency standards here at Grantland, I was forced to remove a large portion of this paragraph that described David Kahn performing lewd acts. Needless to say, it was very graphic and very angry.]

Ugh, who am I kidding? Like I said before, the Timberwolves are not bad. They're so much worse than bad. If the Wolves were simply “bad,” that would imply that they could possibly get better, that the basketball gods hadn't cursed them, that there was hope. Being a Minnesota Timberwolves fan is an affliction. It's a deep, personal shame that eats away at your soul like a cancer. That might seem hyperbolic, but it's true. When people find out you are a Timberwolves fan, they treat you like a cancer patient. Every time I meet someone who's into basketball, we'll start talking hoops, and eventually they ask, “Who's your team?”

“The Wolves.”

“The Wolves?”

“Yeah. The Timberwolves.”

“Oh, right ... sorry.”

“No, it's OK. You didn't know.”

[miami_fan]

Okay which one of the offseason threads are we going with?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does the NBA have an offseason?

[korme]

Raptors considering name change to the Huskies

[Chief Rum]

This one has more posts, so we'll go with this one.

To bring forward the stuff from the other thread, George Karl was fired by the Nuggets, and Jason Kidd (amazingly) was hired as HC of the Nets.

[Chief Rum]

Raptors considering name change to the Huskies

I still like Raptors.

[korme]

This one has more posts, so we'll go with this one.

To bring forward the stuff from the other thread, George Karl was fired by the Nuggets, and Jason Kidd (amazingly) was hired as HC of the Nets.

Imagine a scenario where Deron Williams goes down, the Nets are on the playoff cusp, out of cap space.... and there's only one man to replace him. Scoot over Dave Cowens, the latest NBA player/coach is Jason Kidd!

[miami_fan]

I can't say I am really happy with the discussions the Competition Committee is having regarding rule changes. Challenge flags? Review of every Block/charge call in the last two minutes? The last proposed change that Zach Lowe reported was banning a player from standing out of bounds. I did not see this happen that often but I can't honestly say that is it not a problem they should look at.

[murrayyyyy]

If I'm Cleveland I take a chance on Bennett. Gee/Caspi/Walton gave you nothing this year at the SF spot. Don't trade down and try to get cute. Take the best SF in the draft and build around your young roster. (this way when LBJ opts out in 2014 and comes back you have the 4 open for him)

[Chief Rum]

If I'm Cleveland I take a chance on Bennett. Gee/Caspi/Walton gave you nothing this year at the SF spot. Don't trade down and try to get cute. Take the best SF in the draft and build around your young roster. (this way when LBJ opts out in 2014 and comes back you have the 4 open for him)

Is Bennett getting the kind of buzz to go that high?

I realize this is a poor draft, but aren't there players with more upside than Bennett available?

[whomario]

Isn´t Bennett pretty much projecting as a full time PF ? Yeah, he can shoot the ball a bit, but still ... from what little i saw (and others write) he´s closer to a Millsap-type player than a SF really.

[Young Drachma]

Raptors considering name change to the Huskies

I like it. Going back to the original BAA team name. Should've from the start.

[Young Drachma]

Fine with JKidd with the Nets. If it's arguably the best player in NJ Nets (yes BKN so what) history versus a guy who is a former player too, even with assistant experience, I say why not. Especially if you get Lawrence Frank willing to come in as Associate Head Coach. He own the locker room from Day 1 and they almost signed him before he went to the Knicks anyway. Might not work, but it can't hurt.

[JPhillips]

Raptors considering name change to the Huskies

Their mascot is a slightly overweight kid in a pair of corduroys.

[Sublime 2]

Lots of huffing and puffing about Doc Rivers trying to get out of Boston to coach LAC. Even potential 'trades' of Doc + KG for Bledsoe + Jordan + Picks.

To me, how does Ainge say no? To LAC fans...how the hell do you make that move?

[murrayyyyy]

Is Bennett getting the kind of buzz to go that high?

I realize this is a poor draft, but aren't there players with more upside than Bennett available?

It depends on how much they trust Tristan probably. The reason I like Bennett more than Porter and Neol is size. Porter weights 10 more pounds than McLemore and Noel 16 more pound than McLemore. Either way Bennett has the ability to play the 3/4 and I think that is more valuable to them then finding Varejao's backup in Noel. They need some beef on that team.

[murrayyyyy]

Lots of huffing and puffing about Doc Rivers trying to get out of Boston to coach LAC. Even potential 'trades' of Doc + KG for Bledsoe + Jordan + Picks.

To me, how does Ainge say no? To LAC fans...how the hell do make that move?

Clippers may have no choice... I think Paul ends up in Houston with Dwight. Do you really want to be the team that fired your head coach for your PG, who then left you... Lakers will have a field day with this.

Also any deal that involves getting rid of Jordan is a brilliant one. You can't have him or Blake on the court if it is close...

[mckerney]

Their mascot is a slightly overweight kid in a pair of corduroys.

I'm hoping the name change is so their mascot can be Husky.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/54817953/HuskyStarcraft+3.jpg

[whomario]

Rockets (and Paul) would be better off just keeping Asik instead of Howard. Howard with a full offseason and good health is obviously the better player, but is he that much better that it offsets the cap managing difficulties the next few years ?
Will not cross Paul´s mind because players are idiots that way, but still ...

Question: I was under the impression that Asiks cap hit (as well as Lin´s) for the Rockets is the median of the contract each season (8 mio), however hoopshype and others list it at 5/5/15 which i thought would have only apllied had they stayed with the Bulls/Knicks. Anybody know what´s true ?

[murrayyyyy]

Rockets (and Paul) would be better off just keeping Asik instead of Howard. Howard with a full offseason and good health is obviously the better player, but is he that much better that it offsets the cap managing difficulties the next few years ?
Will not cross Paul´s mind because players are idiots that way, but still ...

Question: I was under the impression that Asiks cap hit (as well as Lin´s) for the Rockets is the median of the contract each season (8 mio), however hoopshype and others list it at 5/5/15 which i thought would have only apllied had they stayed with the Bulls/Knicks. Anybody know what´s true ?

I'm not a capologist but here is what I would do if I was Houston.

1) Offer Lin+Robinson+1st rounder in three years to the Lakers for Sign and trade Howard with the Lakers. Lakers have nothing on the books in 2014. They can also use the huge trade exception I believe they would get(not so sure on this part). Lakers get a PG and a 4 to move Pau to the 5 and play the type of ball their coach likes.

2) Rockets sign Paul as FA. Give them rotation of Paul, Harden, Parsons (Houston has 2 years of team rights at a steal of a number), Greg Smith, Howard. They have soom good team option contracts out there right now which is where Miami screwed up.

[molson]

I love the idea of shopping Doc Rivers around considering he seems to be a commodity, the Celtics have already denied at least two teams the chance to talk with him. Even though I didn't really know trading coaches was even a thing. Of course, I'd rather the Celtics just keep him for the next 10 years, but he seems like he's just done there.

[Desnudo]

Doc is a good coach who's benefited from great circumstance. I would do the Jordan + Bledsoe + picks trade in a heartbeat. No one else is winning the east until Wade retires anyway. Although supposedly the hold up is including Bledsoe. Just Jordan and some late 1st round picks isn't worth it.

[Izulde]

I still like Raptors.

So do I. Huskies is too common a name.

[Izulde]

Is Bennett getting the kind of buzz to go that high?

I realize this is a poor draft, but aren't there players with more upside than Bennett available?

No. Bennett's widely reported as having the best upside of any player in the draft.

[Izulde]

Isn´t Bennett pretty much projecting as a full time PF ? Yeah, he can shoot the ball a bit, but still ... from what little i saw (and others write) he´s closer to a Millsap-type player than a SF really.

I see him as a combo forward, able to play both the 3 and 4.

[Ironhead]

In some good news for the Nuggets when the doctors performed surgery on Gallinari they found that his ACL was only partially torn instead of fully torn. Updated timetable is a December return instead of February.

[Groundhog]

I'm undecided on Bennett. The SFish aspects of his game - decent shooting touch and very good athleticism - are all things that an undersized PF will need in the NBA where he won't be able to bully guys inside. As a pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop guy at PF he has a lot of potential I think though, and that's probably the most important thing for a big in today's NBA.

On D his reputation is pretty poor, but there is no reason why that can't improve with his tools... his 7'1 wingspan helps make up for his height, and it sounds like it's effort more than anything that is needed on that end. The right coach in the NBA would help here, but he probably won't get that being drafted high in the lottery to a (probably) horrible team.

So, yeah, I like him. He has question marks, but every player this draft does. I don't think he goes top-3 but I wouldn't be shocked if he did, especially with the Cavs picking at #1.

[JPhillips]

The Wiz are supposedly split between Bennett and Porter.

[murrayyyyy]

I guess my cap guess was pretty close...

The threat of the James Harden-led Rockets signing Howard away from L.A. is very real to the Lakers, sources said, which means the Lakers will eventually be getting a sign-and-trade pitch from Houston as well. The Rockets will have the cap space to sign Howard outright after the expected shedding of Thomas Robinson's contract, but sources say that the Rockets will certainly attempt to convince the Lakers to take in return Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin in a sign-and-trade deal for Howard, thus theoretically keeping alive the possibility that Houston could preserve its cap space to pursue Chris Paul and possibly pair Howard with Paul.

[Groundhog]

I think out of Porter and Bennett, Porter has the most obvious set of skills and position for the transition to the pro game. Bennett has a tougher road ahead of him to adapt to his position against taller and bigger NBA 4s, although his talent and college production can't be denied.

IMO, Porter's ceiling seems higher based on his build and skillset, while I view Bennett as a boom/bust type who's development will probably be affected a great deal by the situation he ends up in. More so than Porter, anyway. If I were Washington, I'd go Porter.

[nol]

Yeah, based on current rosters, Washington is probably the only team until the T-Wolves at #9 with any playoff expectations for next year. Porter can help more off the bat, plus the Wizards could then dangle Ariza's expiring contract.

If any other team were deciding between Porter and Bennett, you could make a much stronger case for Bennett simply because the guys in the 2014 draft create an even larger than usual incentive to (suck, tank, develop young players) this coming year.

[Desnudo]

I guess my cap guess was pretty close...

The threat of the James Harden-led Rockets signing Howard away from L.A. is very real to the Lakers, sources said, which means the Lakers will eventually be getting a sign-and-trade pitch from Houston as well. The Rockets will have the cap space to sign Howard outright after the expected shedding of Thomas Robinson's contract, but sources say that the Rockets will certainly attempt to convince the Lakers to take in return Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin in a sign-and-trade deal for Howard, thus theoretically keeping alive the possibility that Houston could preserve its cap space to pursue Chris Paul and possibly pair Howard with Paul.

If Kobe was able to restrain from murdering Howard, I suppose Paul will be able to.

[murrayyyyy]

If Kobe was able to restrain from murdering Howard, I suppose Paul will be able to.

I think Paul did a wonderful job masking his hate for Jordan/Griffin this year. If he can get along with those two guys then Howard should be no problem.

[Chief Rum]

I'm a Clippers fan, so take this with a grain of salt, but I really don't think CP3 is going anywhere.

[Izulde]

One of my former Contemporary Issues in College Sports students, who's now the Sports Editor for The Rebel Yell, got featured for a Q & A in this article about AB15 to the Wizards.

Truth About It » Why the Wizards Should Roll the Vegas Dice on Canadian Star Anthony Bennett (http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/06/why-the-wizards-should-roll-the-vegas-dice-on-canadian-star-anthony-bennett.html)

[EagleFan]

So where will that waste of flesh Bynum end up next year?

[Chief Rum]

So it seems like the Clips-Celtics finally came to an arrangement that was similar to the rumored deal, with DJ and two picks going to the Celtics for KG and for the Celtics to let Doc Rivers out of his contract to go sign with the Clips.

And the NBA stepped in and said no.

[Chief Rum]

The two teams are working on other arrangements now to still try to make it happen.

I hate David Stern (even if his manipulation essentially brought the Clips CP3).

[JPhillips]

I'm seeing a lot of mock drafts switching the #1 pick to Len. Is that really a possibility?

[heybrad]

So it seems like the Clips-Celtics finally came to an arrangement that was similar to the rumored deal, with DJ and two picks going to the Celtics for KG and for the Celtics to let Doc Rivers out of his contract to go sign with the Clips.

And the NBA stepped in and said no.
Isn't the issue that you can't trade a coach but you can do draft pick compensation? What I heard was that essentially they'd have to do two separate transactions. One would be a straight up trade of Garnett and Jordan and the other would be Doc Rivers going to the Clippers for draft pick compensation.

[Chief Rum]

Isn't the issue that you can't trade a coach but you can do draft pick compensation? What I heard was that essentially they'd have to do two separate transactions. One would be a straight up trade of Garnett and Jordan and the other would be Doc Rivers going to the Clippers for draft pick compensation.

That was the supposed deals the Clips-Celtics had settled on, but that's the pair of transactions the NBA has issues with for some reason.

[whomario]

I'm seeing a lot of mock drafts switching the #1 pick to Len. Is that really a possibility?

Haven´t followed this, so no take on the validity of the rumour... But if you go by the assumption the Cavs are willing to take uncertain upside after taking a couple roleplayers early in previous years i can see it happening. It´s not like Noel comes without question marks of his own. Maybe none as glaring as Len, but i for one don´t see Noel ever being a real factor offensively. I´m at least undecided on that regarding Len.

Aside from actually pretty good numbers (12/8 with 2 blocks in 26 minutes) : looking solely at his skillset and physichal attributes i can absolutely see him going No1.
He´s a solid 7/7´1 with a good wingspan, really good athleticism, good hands and is barely 20 years old. He´s gonna be a great pick and roll player if nothing else.

I´d peg him 4th or 5th on my own big board, but he´s the prototypical riser, being the perfect embodiment in the NBAs evergoing quest for the elusive 2-way 7 footer.

[sterlingice]

The two teams are working on other arrangements now to still try to make it happen.

I hate David Stern (even if his manipulation essentially brought the Clips CP3).

...basketball reasons... /not bitter

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

So it seems like the Clips-Celtics finally came to an arrangement that was similar to the rumored deal, with DJ and two picks going to the Celtics for KG and for the Celtics to let Doc Rivers out of his contract to go sign with the Clips.

And the NBA stepped in and said no.

Well at least that'd mean there would only be one winter sport I'd have to follow for a while.

The "rebuilding process" for NBA teams is painful. Kills fans.

[whomario]

That was the supposed deals the Clips-Celtics had settled on, but that's the pair of transactions the NBA has issues with for some reason.

seriously ? :confused: That´s like the laziest attempt at cheating the cpu in a text sim. If it´s in the rules that you can´t include a coach in a player-trade (and all i read points to that), how can you expect a review board to believe that "theese are 2 seperate moves, we swear !" ?
There´s been coaches "traded" (Stan Van Gundy a recent example), but to my knowledge not ever at the same time as the same 2 teams doing a "seperate" move.

[nol]

[QUOTE=whomario;2834coincidingn´t followed this, so no take on the validity of the rumor... But if you go by the assumption the Cavs are willing to take uncertain upside after taking a couple roleplayers early in previous years i can see it happening. It´s not like Noel comes without question marks of his own. Maybe none as glaring as Len, but i for one don´t see Noel ever being a real factor offensively. I´m at least undecided on that regarding Len.

Aside from actually pretty good numbers (12/8 with 2 blocks in 26 minutes) : looking solely at his skillset and physichal attributes i can absolutely see him going No1.
He´s a solid 7/7´1 with a good wingspan, really good athleticism, good hands and is barely 20 years old. He´s gonna be a great pick and roll player if nothing else.

I´d peg him 4th or 5th on my own big board, but he´s the prototypical riser, being the perfect embodiment in the NBAs evergoing quest for the elusive 2-way 7 footer.[/QUOTE]

I think his rise is coinciding with people looking at his game footage and seeing exactly how inept Maryland's guards were at getting him the ball. It doesn't hurt that there's not too much out there on him for people to really pick him apart. It would have been great to see more of hime him agaonst someone like Valanciunas (sp?) on the Raptors, but he hasn't been able to represent his country since he left for Maryland.

[MacroGuru]

I might softening up on my stance against hating the Jazz for forcing Sloan to retire. They are reaching to him and Karl to help with the team

Utah Jazz bring back former coach Jerry Sloan as consultant - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9404917/utah-jazz-bring-back-former-coach-jerry-sloan-consultant)

[heybrad]

I just read Stern's comments on the Clippers-Celtics deal and he's saying that since it's clear they aren't separate moves, he won't allow it. So if they hadn't acted like the two were linked it could have gone through.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry returns a jacket out of spite and the cashier tells him, you can't return it out of spite. Jerry says... ok, it doesn't fit and the cashier tells him, 'Too late, you already said spite.'

[Chief Rum]

seriously ? :confused: That´s like the laziest attempt at cheating the cpu in a text sim. If it´s in the rules that you can´t include a coach in a player-trade (and all i read points to that), how can you expect a review board to believe that "theese are 2 seperate moves, we swear !" ?
There´s been coaches "traded" (Stan Van Gundy a recent example), but to my knowledge not ever at the same time as the same 2 teams doing a "seperate" move.

Actaully, coaches are not forbidden to be traded by the CBA. They are just not expressly allowed to be traded.

The CBA only says what teams can do. It doesn't say what they can't do, or what is in violation of the CBA.

[Groundhog]

Haven´t followed this, so no take on the validity of the rumour... But if you go by the assumption the Cavs are willing to take uncertain upside after taking a couple roleplayers early in previous years i can see it happening. It´s not like Noel comes without question marks of his own. Maybe none as glaring as Len, but i for one don´t see Noel ever being a real factor offensively. I´m at least undecided on that regarding Len.

Aside from actually pretty good numbers (12/8 with 2 blocks in 26 minutes) : looking solely at his skillset and physichal attributes i can absolutely see him going No1.
He´s a solid 7/7´1 with a good wingspan, really good athleticism, good hands and is barely 20 years old. He´s gonna be a great pick and roll player if nothing else.

I´d peg him 4th or 5th on my own big board, but he´s the prototypical riser, being the perfect embodiment in the NBAs evergoing quest for the elusive 2-way 7 footer.

I think the Cavs have shown that they will take the player they consider the best prospect, regardless of hype or general consensus. I hated the Thompson and Waiters selections at first, but in hindsight both look like good selections. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt now.

[Groundhog]

There's a rumour that the Cavs are willing to swallow Marion's contract from the Mavs in order to move from #19 to their #13 pick and grab Sergey Karasev, a 19 year old SF from Russia. I'd never heard of him before, but he played an unusually large role in Europe against strong competition, and his draftexpress video looks impressive as far as a slasher and spot-up guy goes (of course, they don't show the misses...):

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G_5qJzeJAjM" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[Matthean]

Clips get Rivers.

[DaddyTorgo]

Clips get Rivers.

Great - as noted...one less winter sport for me to follow, since this means the inevitable rebuilding.

[Blackadar]

Great - as noted...one less winter sport for me to follow, since this means the inevitable rebuilding.

With or without Rivers, the Celtics were rebuilding.

[DaddyTorgo]

With or without Rivers, the Celtics were rebuilding.

That's true. Which is no fun to watch at all. Rebuilding in the NBA is such a crapshoot.

Oh well.

[Danny]

In general being a fan of a 80% of the teams in the NBA is a crapshoot.

[Blackadar]

That's true. Which is no fun to watch at all. Rebuilding in the NBA is such a crapshoot.

Oh well.

It is a crapshoot (which is why the NBA simply isn't as good as other leagues), but if the Cs do the following, they'll be doing it right:

Trade KG this offseason. If he can't go to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan + 1st round pick, then perhaps somewhere else for a 1st round pick or some young talent.

Trade PP to a contender at the trade deadline for another 1st. Yes, he's 35 but his per 36 numbers were close to his historical numbers and he still averaged 19/6/4 last year. He can be a massively valuable asset during a playoff run as the 2nd or 3rd scorer.

If those two things happen, then the Cs will be a good position to restock the cupboard. They already have some promising talent on the team and still have Rondo (there's another huge trade chip as well). In the NBA that's all you can do.

[Desnudo]

That's true. Which is no fun to watch at all. Rebuilding in the NBA is such a crapshoot.

Oh well.

It will be interesting to find out how good Jeff green really is. No one was winning the East except Miami unless an injury, so perfect time to take the medicine.

[DaddyTorgo]

It will be interesting to find out how good Jeff green really is. No one was winning the East except Miami unless an injury, so perfect time to take the medicine.

That's true. It will be interesting to see if Jeff Green can carry an offense.

[JPhillips]

It is a crapshoot (which is why the NBA simply isn't as good as other leagues), but if the Cs do the following, they'll be doing it right:

Trade KG this offseason. If he can't go to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan + 1st round pick, then perhaps somewhere else for a 1st round pick or some young talent.

Trade PP to a contender at the trade deadline for another 1st. Yes, he's 35 but his per 36 numbers were close to his historical numbers and he still averaged 19/6/4 last year. He can be a massively valuable asset during a playoff run as the 2nd or 3rd scorer.

If those two things happen, then the Cs will be a good position to restock the cupboard. They already have some promising talent on the team and still have Rondo (there's another huge trade chip as well). In the NBA that's all you can do.

The only problem I see with this is that a KG-less Celtics still compete for a playoff spot. If they are the seventh seed at the deadline I doubt they have the guts to trade Pierce.

I think they need to trade Pierce before the season starts.

[korme]

Selfishly, (not a C's fan) I hope to see PP play out his career in Boston. We've got Kobe, Duncan, PP and Dirk for longevity. Hope they all finish where they started.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, as a non-Celts fan I hope he does too. I don't see it happening though, as I don't see him having a lot of interest in playing for a lottery team at this stage of his career. As for the Celts as a whole next season, they are going to be ugly. If they keep Green I guess he'll get around 20ppg, but I'm not convinced he's really anything more than a nice 3rd option on a good team.

I'm interested to see what happens with Splitter. Someone is going to overpay for what is essentially an average starting bigman production-wise, and I don't see the Spurs matching it. I think he's a nice pivot with his incredibly-slow-yet-somehow-effective post moves, but I just don't think he's worth the 8+ mil a year that someone will throw at him.

[molson]

I don't think they're going to get anything for Pierce (the one published rumor I saw had Cleveland offering 2 second round picks). I think the Celtics might just buy him out for $5 million if that's the best they're going to get.

Garnett might be worth a little more to a contender but I'm not holding my breath.

[Izulde]

Great - as noted...one less winter sport for me to follow, since this means the inevitable rebuilding.

So you're a fair weather fan, then.

[DaddyTorgo]

Selfishly, (not a C's fan) I hope to see PP play out his career in Boston. We've got Kobe, Duncan, PP and Dirk for longevity. Hope they all finish where they started.

As a Celtics fan, I agree. That's the main reason I didn't want to hit the reset-button yet, because I fear that means that they'll try to get rid of PP, and I think PP is one of the last of the breed of stars that will play their whole careers with one team.

[Groundhog]

I think both Garnett and Pierce should have value to a contender. I think Garnett's value is a little more obvious, with Pierce it would all depend on how willing he was to accept a smaller role.

Having said that, it's hard to envision Pierce as a spot up shooter off the bench. His best asset is his ability to score with the ball in his hands, which is probably a lot less valuable on a contender.

[DaddyTorgo]

So you're a fair weather fan, then.

If you want to look at it that way, when it comes to the NBA...yes.

There are increasingly more and more things that I can do with my time. Work, games, reading a book, trying to get a relationship started, etc. Sitting around watching a basketball team suffer through a 20-30 win season and getting frustrated/agitated about that is not a productive use of my time or emotional energy.

So what?

[Groundhog]

So you're a fair weather fan, then.

I don't think opting to not sit down and watch your team get blown out and play ugly basketball for 6 months makes you a fair weather fan. I didn't watch an awful lot of Cavs basketball in 2010-11 as a Jamison-Hickson-Baron Davis lineup was not exactly thrilling basketball. I understand the need to rebuild - and it landed us Irving - but it's not like the ownership has assembled the team with their fanbase in mind. Die hards can get good seats and cheer on future Euroleague MVPs while basketball fanatics like me can enjoy other NBA games featuring contenders while we pray the lottery bounces our way.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So what?

This is pretty much where I am with most things sports (and a goodly number of non-sports too).

At the end of the day, it's supposed to be entertaining ... and if watching bad basketball (or baseball or whatever) or listening to sucky bands doesn't entertain me sufficiently then why shouldn't I turn my attention elsewhere?

[DaddyTorgo]

This is pretty much where I am with most things sports (and a goodly number of non-sports too).

At the end of the day, it's supposed to be entertaining ... and if watching bad basketball (or baseball or whatever) or listening to sucky bands doesn't entertain me sufficiently then why shouldn't I turn my attention elsewhere?

Goddamnit - we agree on something else!!! :D

Same way I am with baseball too for the record. Except that since a baseball game is usually 4 hours long it's even harder to get me to sit down and watch it (read: near impossible).

And like you, with other stuff too. Concerts of bands I don't like...movies, spending time with people, etc.

[ColtCrazy]

If you want to look at it that way, when it comes to the NBA...yes.

There are increasingly more and more things that I can do with my time. Work, games, reading a book, trying to get a relationship started, etc. Sitting around watching a basketball team suffer through a 20-30 win season and getting frustrated/agitated about that is not a productive use of my time or emotional energy.

So what?

Can't blame you. I totally backed away from following the Pacers after the Malice in the Palace and stayed away when they were rebuilding. I didn't root for other teams, just didn't care much. The Colts are probably the only team I'd follow through a dismal season.

[Izulde]

I think length of season has something to do with it. I've gotten to where I don't care about baseball anymore. White Sox haven't done much lately to say the least, and 3 hours a game at 162 games is just too much time and too much effort to bother with.

I can see the same with the NBA and NHL since it's 82 games.

[Groundhog]

I still can't believe how many games each team plays per season in MLB...

[Logan]

Agree with others. To me, as long as you're not picking up another team to root for while your team is struggling, it's all good. Baseball is dead to me for a couple more years, save for checking in on Matt Harvey every five days. I just don't have the time anymore to trudge along.

[Desnudo]

As a Celtics fan, I agree. That's the main reason I didn't want to hit the reset-button yet, because I fear that means that they'll try to get rid of PP, and I think PP is one of the last of the breed of stars that will play their whole careers with one team.

Pierce has salary cap value next summer so his situation is complicated.

[DaddyTorgo]

Pierce has salary cap value next summer so his situation is complicated.

Right. Hopefully though they'll either hold him, or he'll retire when they trade him.

Hell - I've gone on record as saying I'd rather they keep him and suck for 3-4 years longer than they would have then trade him and get better sooner. Loyalty man.

So their pick is what...#16 this year or something? Who's realistic in that range? Anybody decent, or is it a shallow-draft?

[JonInMiddleGA]

So their pick is what...#16 this year or something? Who's realistic in that range? Anybody decent, or is it a shallow-draft?

I've seen at least a couple of mocks that figure UCLA SF Shabazz Muhammed to Boston, if he isn't taken before 16. Both CBSsports.com guys project them to take German PG Dennis Schroeder. Other names that should be around in that vicinity would include Tim Hardaway, Jr. (Michigan) Kelly Olynyk (Gonzaga), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (UGA), Reggie Bullock (UNC).

How decent or shallow that seems, {shrug}, who knows these days.

[Chief Rum]

You guys back east aren't wasting time watching bad teams anymore?

Congratulations. You are now welcome to move to LA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You guys back east aren't wasting time watching bad teams anymore? Congratulations. You are now welcome to move to LA.

Hell, I'm hard pressed to get motivated to watch good teams these days.

[Chief Rum]

Hell, I'm hard pressed to get motivated to watch good teams these days.

In that case, all we need is to get you a fake tan and a convertible, and you could live in Hollywood.

[Fidatelo]

Hell - I've gone on record as saying I'd rather they keep him and suck for 3-4 years longer than they would have then trade him and get better sooner. Loyalty man.

This comment doesn't really jive with your earlier statements about ignoring the Celtics if they suck. How can you expect the team to be loyal to a player if they can't rely on their fans to be loyal to them? If ownership suspects the fan base are going to jump ship for an extra 3-4 years if they stick with Pierce then they basically have to get rid of him.

[DaddyTorgo]

This comment doesn't really jive with your earlier statements about ignoring the Celtics if they suck. How can you expect the team to be loyal to a player if they can't rely on their fans to be loyal to them? If ownership suspects the fan base are going to jump ship for an extra 3-4 years if they stick with Pierce then they basically have to get rid of him.

Valid point - let me try to explain better. If they were loyal to Pierce for his last couple years I'd be more likely to watch through the crap times for the "Paul Pierce retirement tour" then if they jettison him and go with a team of guys who I have no connection to. Particularly if the reasoning is basically "well it saved us a few million and netted us a mid-round draft pick."

[sterlingice]

I've seen at least a couple of mocks that figure UCLA SF Shabazz Muhammed to Boston, if he isn't taken before 16. Both CBSsports.com guys project them to take German PG Dennis Schroeder. Other names that should be around in that vicinity would include Tim Hardaway, Jr. (Michigan) Kelly Olynyk (Gonzaga), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (UGA), Reggie Bullock (UNC).

How decent or shallow that seems, {shrug}, who knows these days.

I swear: every year we hear about how the next year is going to be awesome and how this year is shallow. Then a year goes by and "Noel isn't even more awesome than Davis", Shabazz Muhammed isn't the consensus #1 pick and best we've seen since LeBron, and we finally get to see a bunch of these freshmen against other college players so suddenly the wheat is separated from the chaff.

And then "next year's draft" isn't that great but don't worry, the year after, it will be awesome!

SI

[Comey]

I swear: every year we hear about how the next year is going to be awesome and how this year is shallow. Then a year goes by and "Noel isn't even more awesome than Davis", Shabazz Muhammed isn't the consensus #1 pick and best we've seen since LeBron, and we finally get to see a bunch of these freshmen against other college players so suddenly the wheat is separated from the chaff.

And then "next year's draft" isn't that great but don't worry, the year after, it will be awesome!

SI

First thing I read about this year's draft, which I read as soon as last draft was over, was that it was going to be the worst draft in years.

I've read very little that has gone off that track...it's a depth draft, but there are no stars.

[Chief Rum]

I don't see Pierce being traded, at least not this offseason. He is either going to be cut, or he will be on the C's roster on November 1.

The C's have a choice of cutting him for $5 M or keeping him for $16 M. No one is going to trade for him right now, since then they would have a $16 M player on their roster who is whatever old. No one is going to trade for him after July 1 if he is still on the C's because (again) he costs too much for what he now provides.

So the C's aren't going to see any trade value back for Pierce at all, at least not this offseason. If they are comfortable keeping him at $16 M, then I suppose they will, although I suspect they will only do so if they somehow get a coach to replace Rivers that KG and Pierce respect enough to return and make another run at it.

But I just don't see that. Most people think Rivers is the second or third best coach in basketball, and with him, this team didn't even have home court advantage in the playoffs. It just doesn't make much sense for the Celtics to not take this opportunity to get a jump on their rebuild. The Clippers will deal for KG and give them another first in this draft on Thursday and a young center with potential in DJ. And they can use the cap space/salary relief they can get for cutting Pierce. Then they still have the trade piece of Rondo, who they probably decide is more trouble than he's worth, but can net a lot coming back.

And given all that, I just don't see them keeping Pierce on except for sentimental reasons or to keep fans tied in.

[Chief Rum]

First thing I read about this year's draft, which I read as soon as last draft was over, was that it was going to be the worst draft in years.

I've read very little that has gone off that track...it's a depth draft, but there are no stars.

Agreed. From everything I have read, this is the worst draft in a long time. And next year's draft, highlighted presumeably by Andrew Wiggins, is supposed to be an excellent draft.

[miami_fan]

Of course we don't know how this draft will turn out but comparisons to the 2003 draft surely doesn't help.

[Chief Rum]

I guess conventional thinking be damned. Wojnarowski is saying the Celtics are drawing enough trade interest on Pierce after all to make it worth it to keep him and seek those trades. If they get something significant for a $16 M year by Pierce, that GM they trade with is a dummy.

And the KG thing, well, he might go somewhere, but Woj again is saying it seems unlikely the league will aprove a deal to the Clips, because of how it would look (which is stupid and sucks).

So who the heck knows what the Celtics will do now. And also who knows what the Clips will do. They still have three very interesting trade pieces in Jordan, Bledsoe and Butler's expiring contract, and it will be intriguing to see what they choose to do with those assets.

[Blackadar]

I guess conventional thinking be damned. Wojnarowski is saying the Celtics are drawing enough trade interest on Pierce after all to make it worth it to keep him and seek those trades. If they get something significant for a $16 M year by Pierce, that GM they trade with is a dummy.

I disagree. Pierce is $15m for one year. He produced 19/6/5 last year and his per-36 numbers were within 10% of his career average. In other words, he was pretty effective while on the floor. By all accounts he's also a great teammate.

He's not the #1 guy anymore, though he did that with the Celtics last year. But put him on a team where he can be #2 or #3 and he's easily worth his money PLUS the team only will owe him $15m for that year. In the NBA, that's worth quite a bit. Production + leadership + no long term salary = valuable commodity. As such, someone is going to make a deal either now or at the deadline for Pierce (provided he's healthy and he has been remarkably durable). Of course, it will involve the Cs taking back some salary as well, but they'll wind up with something (a 1st round pick) or a promising young player in return.

[Groundhog]

The draft has no clear-cut #1 or even numbers #1-#5 guys, but I don't think it's really a shallow draft, just lacking in star power. There's a number of guys projected in the 10-25 spots that I like.

[JPhillips]

Holy shit that bridge was close to decapitating several Heat players.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aBu56Ybu5FI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[nol]

Yeah, the average NBA draft produces somewhere between 9-10 players who end up as starters for 2 or more seasons (forgot where that stat came from on Twitter this morning). There's probably not going to be more than 3-4 future All-Stars in this draft class, but it will likely end up with more than its share of productive players.

[miami_fan]

Brian Shaw is heading to Denver.

[Groundhog]

Good situation for Shaw to walk into for his first head coaching gig, but I'm kinda bummed that Brett Brown didn't get it due to his Australia link (both our national team and my local team in the national comp) but looks like he's in the running for the Sixers still.

[Groundhog]

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

[Eaglesfan27]

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

I have heard some good arguments that he should be in the top 3 picks. I think he is going to be a very productive player in the league.

[Groundhog]

Less than 24 hours out and I still have NFI what the Cavs are going to do tomorrow. Convential thinking says that, assuming they don't move the pick to trade down a couple of spots - not a bad idea, depending on what they get for #1 - the Cavs grab Len or Noel. Having said that, the Cavs last couple of drafts have been anything but conventional, so I fully expect to be surprised. Porter/McLemore/Oladipo are all possibilities, and I think I'd rate them the reverse of the order I listed. I think I feel more confident about all 3 of those guys than Len or Noel to be honest.

Cavs apparently looked to acquire Kevin Love with no luck, and are talking to Pelicans (feels so wrong to type that) about a swap too, but I'm thinking we most likely make the pick.

I still really like Olynyk and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes earlier than expected, but if he slips into the teens, I really, really hope we take the Mavs #13 off their hands and select him. We have dire need of scoring from the post, and picking a guy like Olynyk would help counter Tristan Thompson & Varejao's weaknesses from the post on offense.

My pick for some potential late-1st steals would be UNC's Reggie Bullock who has the situational stats in college to peg him for maybe a very valuable '3s and D' role player. Shabazz is slipping too and, even though he did very little beyond score at UCLA, he would be great value in the middle of the 1st IMO if he falls. I know very little about German PG Shroeder outside of he has some impressive highlight clips, and Kansas' Withey seems pretty capable of stepping in straight away as a shot blocker.

[Atocep]

I like Noel and Porter in this draft. Oladipo, McLemore, and Len don't really impress me.

Tony Mitchell is an interesting player that will go lower than he probably should and I can't believe Plumlee is probably going to go in the 1st round.

[Groundhog]

Tony Mitchell passes the eye test, but this pretty much scared me off him:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-the-2013-Power-Forward-Crop-4280/

[BishopMVP]

Right. Hopefully though they'll either hold him, or he'll retire when they trade him.

Hell - I've gone on record as saying I'd rather they keep him and suck for 3-4 years longer than they would have then trade him and get better sooner. Loyalty man.

So their pick is what...#16 this year or something? Who's realistic in that range? Anybody decent, or is it a shallow-draft?Is it really loyalty to a player to force them to end their career with a rebuilding team that has no shot at a title? Clippers is obviously off now, but if you traded him to a team with KG, Doc, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, wouldn't that be doing him a favor? Same now with maybe a Golden State or Denver where he could be the veteran who shows up 25-30 minutes a night, sometimes playing the hero in the last 2 minutes, sometimes deferring to a Steph Curry or Ty Lawson. (He looks great as a secondary option with ball-movers around him, his problem this year was we were forced to play him 35 min a night and he wore down.) Was it disrespectful or disloyal to trade Ray Bourque to the Avs at the end of his career?

As for #16 there are a number of intriguing options. Shabazz if he falls, Schroeder (although there's talk a team ahead of us promised him), Jamaal Franklin, Shane Larkin (that probably means Rondo is out the door sooner rather than later), Karasev. Ainge has a pretty good track record of at least picking up intriguing players in the mid-1st round, drafting Sullinger 21st (we'll see how the back plays out long-term), Bradley 19th, and you can go back to Rondo 21st and Al Jefferson 15th overall. You'd be surprised how many good players, particularly "undersized PG's" were picked 16th-22nd recently -Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague and Darren Collison in 09, Eric Bledsoe and Bradley in 2010, no PG's in 2011 (but Faried, Vucevic, Shumpert and Tobias Harris). Sure, you get plenty of Luke Babbitt's, Royce White's and Kevin Seraphin's in that range, but there's a lot of solid talent - and like people have said, it's more a deep draft than a top-heavy one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Is it really loyalty to a player to force them to end their career with a rebuilding team that has no shot at a title? Clippers is obviously off now, but if you traded him to a team with KG, Doc, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, wouldn't that be doing him a favor? Same now with maybe a Golden State or Denver where he could be the veteran who shows up 25-30 minutes a night, sometimes playing the hero in the last 2 minutes, sometimes deferring to a Steph Curry or Ty Lawson. (He looks great as a secondary option with ball-movers around him, his problem this year was we were forced to play him 35 min a night and he wore down.) Was it disrespectful or disloyal to trade Ray Bourque to the Avs at the end of his career?

As for #16 there are a number of intriguing options. Shabazz if he falls, Schroeder (although there's talk a team ahead of us promised him), Jamaal Franklin, Shane Larkin (that probably means Rondo is out the door sooner rather than later), Karasev. Ainge has a pretty good track record of at least picking up intriguing players in the mid-1st round, drafting Sullinger 21st (we'll see how the back plays out long-term), Bradley 19th, and you can go back to Rondo 21st and Al Jefferson 15th overall. You'd be surprised how many good players, particularly "undersized PG's" were picked 16th-22nd recently -Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague and Darren Collison in 09, Eric Bledsoe and Bradley in 2010, no PG's in 2011 (but Faried, Vucevic, Shumpert and Tobias Harris). Sure, you get plenty of Luke Babbitt's, Royce White's and Kevin Seraphin's in that range, but there's a lot of solid talent - and like people have said, it's more a deep draft than a top-heavy one.

Not disloyal to the player to trade him if he wants to go. If he doesn't want to go then it's sucky though. It's sad too though.

Wasn't disloyal to trade Bourque, but it was bittersweet, yeah. Same would be the case for Pierce.

[Logan]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m

Boston and Brooklyn discussing a blockbuster deal that would send Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m

Possible Nets package includes expiring deal of Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Tomike Shenglia and three first-round picks, sources tell Y!

[Sublime 2]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m

Boston and Brooklyn discussing a blockbuster deal that would send Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m

Possible Nets package includes expiring deal of Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Tomike Shenglia and three first-round picks, sources tell Y!

We deserve 10 first round picks for Wallace's contract.

[korme]

That would certainly make for a star-studded (albeit almost all over the hill) cast in Brooklyn - DWill, JJ, PP, Garnett and Brook. 5 All-Stars.

[nol]

There have to be better ways for the Celtics to fully tank than that. Those picks would all be in the 20s.

[korme]

lol u guys remember Royce White

[sterlingice]

lol u guys remember Royce White

Oh crap. What did he do this time?

SI

[Lathum]

There have to be better ways for the Celtics to fully tank than that. Those picks would all be in the 20s.

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

[korme]

Oh crap. What did he do this time?

SI

Just poking fun at the draft. Huge sleeper, great pick at the time just a year ago - and now we may never see him log an NBA minute.

[whomario]

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

[sterlingice]

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

And the Rockets would make that trade again in a heartbeat

SI

[whomario]

And the Rockets would make that trade again in a heartbeat

SI

which they should :) Still, Thunder imo could be in a great position for the next 2,3 years to make a serious title run again. Might have been with Harden, too, but i´m not really that interested in those what-if-scenarios.

[JPhillips]

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

In 2014 and 2015 the Hawks have the right to swap picks with the Nets.

[JPhillips]

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

No way those picks would get Hardin back. They still have a good team, but Presti might have closed the window with one horrible trade.

I'm not at all sold on Olynk. He was so soft in the tourny. Can he play against NBA 4s and 5s?

[korme]

Woj now reporting Jason Terry goes along with PP/KG to Brooklyn, with Evans/Bogans + min. sal guy to Boston

[whomario]

I´m not saying they would. I´m not even judging the Harden trade, don´t care about it in the context of this draft. That´s for fans of teams to argue about, as a neutral observer i claim the right to fully ignore that trade ;)

But: Harden in OKC wouldn´t have been the same as Harden at Houston. He´d have been a 6th man with a stars contract in a league where the salary Cap gets tougher to beat. (for what it´s worth: I think the Thunder would have been best off signing Harden and trading Westbrook for a decent big and a game-manager/shooter at PG)

How was Olynyk "soft" in the tournament ? He had a bad shooting game against Wichita, but got to the line 14 times, he also scored 17 2nd half points the game before that.
He won´t be a guy you throw the ball and then wait for him to score, but as a complimentary player on a team like OKC where all he needs to do is shoot the ball and a bail-out option close to the basket on quick moves ? He´ll be perfect in that role.

[nol]

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

First of all, it looks like Terry is gonna be in the deal, and I have no idea of how this will even work under the salary cap. Even if KG and Pierce fall off completely, the stars on the Nets can still get them into the playoffs. They'll never be mistaken for big-time contenders, but they played poorly enough to get their coach fired and still ended up with the 4 seed.

Edit: I like the deal better with Terry in it. It's apparent that you can't trade Pierce without KG, and none of the destinations KG would approve of (since no deal to the Clippers can happen) have anything in terms of young players to offer. The picks from Brooklyn probably won't be that great, but the picks are better than what a team like the Lakers could offer. And if you're going to tank, this year will be one of the better years to do it

[BishopMVP]

Not disloyal to the player to trade him if he wants to go. If he doesn't want to go then it's sucky though. It's sad too though.

Wasn't disloyal to trade Bourque, but it was bittersweet, yeah. Same would be the case for Pierce.I agree with Bittersweet (especially if they're traded to the Nets - would much rather have them go anywhere but BK, NY, LAL, Miami). I wish we could spend the next 2-3 years contending until Pierce retires, then have a smooth transition to the next star, but that's just too hard in the salary cap era. And I think it would be even more bittersweet to watch Pierce carrying them to 30-40 wins and at best a 1st-round playoff defeat. Literally anything we can get for them is better for the franchise going forward than if KG or Pierce had retired after last season or this one.Just poking fun at the draft. Huge sleeper, great pick at the time just a year ago - and now we may never see him log an NBA minute.Or it might be like the year he took off from Minnesota and he shows up as a good starter in 2 years. Bill Simmons might have had a hard on for him, but he was always known as an incredibly high-risk/high-reward pick, which was why he fell out of the lottery and went to a team with 3 1st-round picks.

[Blackadar]

Woj now reporting Jason Terry goes along with PP/KG to Brooklyn, with Evans/Bogans + min. sal guy to Boston

According to ESPN, the deal is:

Garnett
Pierce
Terry

for

Evans
Bogan
Wallace
Shengelia
2014 1st
2016 1st
2018 1st

That's probably a good deal for both teams. A NJ rotation of Williams, Johnson, Lopez, Garnett and Pierce could compete with most anyone. With 2 seven footers, two guys at 6'7" and the 6'3" Williams, they'd present a matchup problem for many teams. Plus they get rid of the horrible salary of Wallace, who has 3 years/30 mil to go. They go into win now mode, with fits with the age of the other 3 guys.

The Cs get a bunch of scrubs and take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA with Wallace, but they'll get numerous draft picks. The 2014 one probably won't be very good, but the 2018 one may be great.

As for Pierce and Garnett, they get the NY spotlight and get to stick together to make one more run at a title. Lopez and Johnson could take some of the load off Pierce and Garnett and they'd still have a top-notch PG feeding them the ball.

[oykib]

According to ESPN, the deal is:

Garnett
Pierce
Terry

for

Evans
Bogan
Wallace
Shengelia
2014 1st
2016 1st
2018 1st

That's probably a good deal for both teams. A NJ rotation of Williams, Johnson, Lopez, Garnett and Pierce could compete with most anyone. With 2 seven footers, two guys at 6'7" and the 6'3" Williams, they'd present a matchup problem for many teams. Plus they get rid of the horrible salary of Wallace, who has 3 years/30 mil to go. They go into win now mode, with fits with the age of the other 3 guys.

The Cs get a bunch of scrubs and take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA with Wallace, but they'll get numerous draft picks. The 2014 one probably won't be very good, but the 2018 one may be great.

As for Pierce and Garnett, they get the NY spotlight and get to stick together to make one more run at a title. Lopez and Johnson could take some of the load off Pierce and Garnett and they'd still have a top-notch PG feeding them the ball.

I think that trade is garbage for Boston. You don't trade for a pick that could be useful five years from now. How does Ainge not hold out for Lopez?

[Lathum]

This shit with booing Stern pisses me off. The growth the NBA saw under his leadership has been amazing

[Groundhog]

Please not Len please not Len please not Len.

[MrBug708]

Ha!

[Izulde]

I told you! I told you all! AB15 has the best upside of anybody in the draft and it wouldn't shock me if he went #!!

[MrBug708]

I told you! I told you all! AB15 has the best upside of anybody in the draft and it wouldn't shock me if he went #!!

No

[bulletsponge]

its nice to see a surprise pick

[nol]

The problem is KG's no-trade clause. If Boston really wanted to maximize its return the move would be to wait until the trade deadline and deal Garnett and Pierce on separate deals to teams looking to make a push for the playoffs/championship. You could probably command an expiring and a pick for each of them. Trading the two of them together greatly limits the number of teams they can deal with since a team has to have enough salary to match the two contracts and be good enough for KG to potentially want to go there.

[Lathum]

I think Oladipo ends up being the best player in this draft

[Izulde]

Not sure where the thread went, but I told you all! I told you AB15 had the best upside in the draft and I mentioned a couple palces (though don't recall if here was one) that he could legitimately go #1 overall!

[cuervo72]

Let's see how Ernie fucks this up. ;)

/really has no idea what the Wiz should do - don't pay that much attention - but expect them to screw it up nonetheless

[mckerney]

Not sure where the thread went, but I told you all! I told you AB15 had the best upside in the draft and I mentioned a couple palces (though don't recall if here was one) that he could legitimately go #1 overall!

You mean what you said about 5 posts back?

[MrBug708]

Not sure where the thread went, but I told you all! I told you AB15 had the best upside in the draft and I mentioned a couple palces (though don't recall if here was one) that he could legitimately go #1 overall!

Again.

No.

[Izulde]

There was a separate 2013 draft thread. They must have been merged.

[Izulde]

Again.

No.

No what?

[bulletsponge]

here comes the annual michael jordan bust pick

[MrBug708]

He doesnt have the best upside. He has upside though

[Young Drachma]

Wacky draft. Dunno what HR did to the AI this year.

[Groundhog]

3 ballsy drafts in a row for the Cavs. I like it. Didn't feel good about Noel or Len to be honest, and Bennett is a risk, but at the same time he's a possible Rookie of the Year candidate too. We were in desperate need of some scoring inside, and he can do that out of the gates.

[Groundhog]

lol @ Kelly Dwyer: "TAKE IT EASY MICHAEL JORDAN HAS A GREAT HISTORY OF DRAFT WHITE DUDES WITH BANGS"

Certainly didn't expect Zeller to be the first pivot off the board. Wow.

[Lathum]

here comes the annual michael jordan bust pick

good call sir

[Groundhog]

I think #5 is actually not a bad spot for Zeller - last I saw yesterday he was sitting at around #10-#15 which is too low I think. Hard to justify him over Noel though.

[Blackadar]

I think that trade is garbage for Boston. You don't trade for a pick that could be useful five years from now. How does Ainge not hold out for Lopez?

Because there's no way NJ does that deal. End of story. Getting 3 1sts for Pierce/Garnett is pretty damn good. You're not getting a young superstar in return. Or even a young star like Lopez. NJ laughs at you and hangs up the phone.

And in fact, if you're in full rebuild mode, that's exactly what you do. You stockpile picks and young assets hoping something with turn up or someone develops into that next superstar. That's how they won their championship - got one guy internally (Pierce), got Jesus with the #5 pick, got KG because the team was suddenly attractive for a host of young potential guys (including Al Jefferson and Gerald Green) and then got lucky with Rondo ($3m in cash to Phoenix for their pick, I believe).

[Blackadar]

The problem is KG's no-trade clause. If Boston really wanted to maximize its return the move would be to wait until the trade deadline and deal Garnett and Pierce on separate deals to teams looking to make a push for the playoffs/championship. You could probably command an expiring and a pick for each of them. Trading the two of them together greatly limits the number of teams they can deal with since a team has to have enough salary to match the two contracts and be good enough for KG to potentially want to go there.

Maybe, but then you're also taking the risk of injuries, decline in performance and a host of other issues. Not to mention the fact that neither Pierce nor Garnett are going to want to play for a team in rebuilding mode. Plus, you've got to get KG to agree to a trade (as you pointed out), something he's more likely to do if Pierce is going with him.

Finally, a rebuilding team should prefer to start the young guys and just tank the season for a better 2014 pick. The Cs would win more games with Pierce and Garnett this year - even if just until the trade deadline - but they're really better off without either of them if they really are truly rebuilding (and they are).

[MrBug708]

Suns fail

[Scarecrow]

Thank god the suns didn't take MacLemore.

[sterlingice]

This shit with booing Stern pisses me off. The growth the NBA saw under his leadership has been amazing

I get the Bettman boing but the Stern booing is silly. Then again, this is MSG, right? Just saying "New York" explains it.

SI

[JPhillips]

I guess the rumors that teams were put off by Noel's attitude and entourage were true.

[nol]

Maybe, but then you're also taking the risk of injuries, decline in performance and a host of other issues. Not to mention the fact that neither Pierce nor Garnett are going to want to play for a team in rebuilding mode. Plus, you've got to get KG to agree to a trade (as you pointed out), something he's more likely to do if Pierce is going with him.

Yes. That is why I was saying that the Nets deal is probably as good as it's going to get since you have to trade both of them together. Plus they can tank the entire season rather than half of it.

[sterlingice]

Who knows if they can score but that will be pretty good D in New Orleans

SI

[MrBug708]

@AndyGlockner: There will be zero points in the paint on either end in NOpe games next season

[Izulde]

That Noel/AD post combo is going to be sick as a ho defensively

[MrBug708]

Noel to Philly?

[MrBug708]

@WojYahooNBA: Philadelphia sends Jrue Holiday and a first-round pick in 2014 to New Orleans for Noel, league source says.

[oykib]

Because there's no way NJ does that deal. End of story. Getting 3 1sts for Pierce/Garnett is pretty damn good. You're not getting a young superstar in return. Or even a young star like Lopez. NJ laughs at you and hangs up the phone.

And in fact, if you're in full rebuild mode, that's exactly what you do. You stockpile picks and young assets hoping something with turn up or someone develops into that next superstar. That's how they won their championship - got one guy internally (Pierce), got Jesus with the #5 pick, got KG because the team was suddenly attractive for a host of young potential guys (including Al Jefferson and Gerald Green) and then got lucky with Rondo ($3m in cash to Phoenix for their pick, I believe).

You don't get something for nothing. Boston just got taken. Not only did they get basically nothing for all the frontline talent on their team besides Rondo, they actively took back Gerald Wallace's terrible contract. There's no rule that said that they had to trade these guys. NJ either gives you something useful or you don't make a deal. The only useful trade piece NJ has is Lopez. Mid-to-late first rounders are not worth much in the NBA. There's no reason to take back fifteen cents on the dollar.

[MrBug708]

My mock draft is perfect through 8, how about yours?

[mckerney]

Would love to see Trey Burke go now, but since I don't see that happening hoping for McCollum.

[Young Drachma]

NJ = BKN

[Honolulu_Blue]

California Pizza Kitchen instead of Trey Burke? Come on, Joe D!!!

[korme]

@WojYahooNBA: Philadelphia sends Jrue Holiday and a first-round pick in 2014 to New Orleans for Noel, league source says.

He corrected it. It's Holiday for Noel and the Pelicans' 14 1st rounder. Is Vazquez a FA? Who starts at PG in Philly? I'm confused.

[Izulde]

@WojYahooNBA: Philadelphia sends Jrue Holiday and a first-round pick in 2014 to New Orleans for Noel, league source says.

Massive overpay by Philly IMO.

[Young Drachma]

Giannis from Greece doesn't want to be stashed in Europe, wants to come to the states immediately. Teams shying away, but I think it's good for him. He probably wants that guaranteed money but also just good for him to learn in NBA system and play D-League on a NBA salary with NbA trainers and stuff.

[mckerney]

Woooo!

Please don't trade him now like last time we took a good PG...

[Izulde]

Y'all have Rubio, though. So I'd trade Burke

[mckerney]

I'd rather Rubio be the one to get traded.

[Groundhog]

Shocked the Sixers traded Holiday. Guess they like a PG at 11 too.

[korme]

Hearing Burke will be traded from Minny to Utah

[Izulde]

I've heard Portland as a Burke destination too.

[Lathum]

LOL at Rose saying Utah needs a point guard since Stockton retired. That Williams guy they had was a real hack

[hoopsguy]

Hearing Burke will be traded from Minny to Utah

Per ESPN log, to Utah for #14/#21 picks.

[Groundhog]

It's Utah, don't know what for.

[Groundhog]

Sixers to grab Schroeder is my guess.

[mckerney]

Damn.

[Matthean]

California Pizza Kitchen instead of Trey Burke? Come on, Joe D!!!

Third year in a row the Pistons have drafted a SG.

[Galaxy]

They are Pelicans, not the Hornets.

[cartman]

This has been the craziest pro draft in a while.

[Groundhog]

This has been the craziest pro draft in a while.

100%. I love it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know if this quote actually happened or if someone was trying to be funny but if so .... Noel allegedly said (in response to being told he was traded)

“It’s a great organization. They’ve got an All-Star point guard in Jrue Holiday.”

[Groundhog]

I just don't trust any PG over 6'4.

[Groundhog]

Bizzare pick by Thunder. I really don't get the Adams hype, and that's not just because he's a bloody Kiwi. :D

[Galaxy]

18 kids??

[Groundhog]

Sounds like Hawks are going after the Mavs #13. That's disappointing, I'd love the Cavs to pickup Olynyk here.

[Izulde]

Adams is a terrible pick for the Thunder. Why not go with someone a lot more ready like Olynk?

[Lathum]

Rumor is the MAvs are drafting Adams sister with this pic

[bhlloy]

Adams is a terrible pick for the Thunder. Why not go with someone a lot more ready like Olynk?

The Harden trade is going to go down as one of the worst in league history. First the Raptors pick is nowhere near as high as you expected and then you blow it on Adams, who probably isn't going to be good for a while if ever.

[Groundhog]

Celtics trade for Olynyk. Great pickup for them.

[bulletsponge]

god i want someone to punch david stern. hes as annoying, arrogant and smug as john cena

[mckerney]

Ugh. This doesn't make trading Burke seem any better.

[Blackadar]

You don't get something for nothing. Boston just got taken. Not only did they get basically nothing for all the frontline talent on their team besides Rondo, they actively took back Gerald Wallace's terrible contract. There's no rule that said that they had to trade these guys. NJ either gives you something useful or you don't make a deal. The only useful trade piece NJ has is Lopez. Mid-to-late first rounders are not worth much in the NBA. There's no reason to take back fifteen cents on the dollar.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, no team is going to give up young, excellent talent for guys who are 35+. Thinking that somehow Pierce and Garnett is going to net you someone like Lopez? You might as well think that PP/Garnett is going to net you James and Wade. It's absurd and you suggesting it loses you all credibility.

Also take into consideration that the Cs really need to make a deal. Pierce and Garnett don't really help the team by playing this year. Yes, a healthy Rondo + Pierce + Garnett might get a couple of games over .500, but what does that really do? Nada. So if you need to move them AND you need to work around cap issues AND you need hope for the future AND you need to work around Garnett's no trade, the options are extremely limited.

Finally, you have no idea whatsoever where the picks wind up. By 2014, Williams and Johnson are both in their 30s. Garnett and Pierce may as well be retired. That pick could be decent. By 2016 and 2018, those picks could be mid-1sts, but it's just as likely those picks may be top-5. After all, Williams will be approaching his mid-30s and Johnson, Garnett and Pierce may very well be out of the league. So 15 cents on the dollar? You have no idea.

Me? I can deal with Wallace's contract for a couple of years. The team isn't going anywhere in that time anyway. And I'll take the 20th pick in 2014 with the chance that the 2016 and 2018 picks may very well be lottery picks. That gives the team a lot of trade chips to rebuild. Rebuilding in the NBA is like playing the lottery and the more chances you have at young premium talent, the better off you are.

[sterlingice]

He corrected it. It's Holiday for Noel and the Pelicans' 14 1st rounder. Is Vazquez a FA? Who starts at PG in Philly? I'm confused.

I love how Woj did a typo and then everyone reported it and then he corrected himself and everyone did the same. People are just camping on his Twitter feed

SI

[molson]

If all those Nets 1st round picks are unprotected, that is a way bigger haul than I expected for Garnett and Pierce.

[Izulde]

Shabazz to Minny. :lol:

[Groundhog]

Shabazz at #14 is pretty good value IMO.

[sterlingice]

Same

SI

[Blackadar]

Celtics trade for Olynyk. Great pickup for them.

Not sure how he will work out defensively, but he would seem to be a perfect kind of guy to work with Rondo in the two-man game. Now if they could get Fab Melo to pan out from a rebounding/defensive perspective, then they'd have a good combo in the middle (not even counting Sully, whose skill set should pair well with Olynyk).

[Galaxy]

Boston seems to be loading up on centers.

[MrBug708]

Shabazz will work out well for Minnesota. He's a scorer and has a good passer in Rubio

[korme]

Shabazz at #14 is pretty good value IMO.

Pretty sure I'm more athletic than Shabazz Muhammad.

Loving the Giannis Antetokounmpo highlight tape. Looks long and athletic. But I never wanna type his name again.

[korme]

Boston seems to be loading up on centers.

It's going to Atlanta via Dallas by way of Boston

[Lathum]

Do they even have one? Fab Melo couldn't make it out of the D-league and if Garnett is gone, who else is left beyond the new rookie?

Sullinger

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ah the comedy of an Atlanta Hawks draft.

[Blackadar]

Sullinger

Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?

[Groundhog]

I kinda like Schroeder. Only seen highlights, but he looks like a pretty legit speedy PG prospect.

[cartman]

I just don't trust any PG over 6'4.

There was this guy named Magic...

[Groundhog]

There was this guy named Magic...

But he's literally the only one. Every couple of years one comes along, none of them ever seem to pan out.

[Izulde]

Schroeder is interesting.

[MrBug708]

Pretty sure I'm more athletic than Shabazz Muhammad.


Crazy talk

[Izulde]

Larkin is a great pickup at #18 IMO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I kinda like Schroeder. Only seen highlights, but he looks like a pretty legit speedy PG prospect.

I was thinking more of the 7' matchstick they got from Dallas prior to that.
Even more exciting was the addition of Jared Cunningham in that deal ... I didn't know it was even possible to average less than 3 ppp and 3 mpg in the D-League.

[korme]

Love when teams draft back to back PGs

[Groundhog]

Hoping Cavs go Bullock here.

[Groundhog]

Oh Karasev, I didn't even realise he was still on the board. Very nice.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Love when teams draft back to back PGs

Well, they did but they didn't. Larkin goes to Dallas for the pick at #16.

[Groundhog]

Cavs came into the draft needing frontcourt offense and shooting from the wings. Tick and tick. Good job.

[Lathum]

do they have both rounds tonight?

[SirFozzie]

ProBasketballTalk's Review of the Celtics pick at #13:

13. Boston Celtics (via the Dallas Mavericks): Kelly Olynyk (7’0” center, Gonzaga): We knew that Dallas wanted out, they get the Celtics No. 16 (which they likely trade) and two future second rounders. Olynyk is more than just that guy with long hair — he has size, moves well and has a really good scoring touch. In a league that values efficient scorers, Olynk is that (he shot 65 percent this season). But coming out of a small conference there are questions about how he deals with the size and athleticism he will see in the NBA. There are questions about his defense. They will love him in Boston, let’s see if he can perform at that level.

[hoopsguy]

Love when teams draft back to back PGs

Love Simmons asking if Kahn consulted on the picks.

[mckerney]

Love Simmons asking if Kahn consulted on the picks.

It is only a Kahn move if you then trade the best PG one you draft.

[BishopMVP]

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

...
Finally, you have no idea whatsoever where the picks wind up. By 2014, Williams and Johnson are both in their 30s. Garnett and Pierce may as well be retired. That pick could be decent.2014 is next year's pick.

Don't like the Olynyk pick. Would rather have Schroeder, Giannis, Shabazz, even Larkin or Karasev. I also really don't think he was worth trading 2 2nd round picks to move up (and I know those are almost worthless).

[korme]

Sergey Karasev wins the Crappiest English of the Night award

[Lathum]

that was weird

[korme]

do they have both rounds tonight?

Yes. 2nd Rd is 2 min per pick

[Lathum]

LOL at Stern

[Blackadar]

2014 is next year's pick.

Yes. Johnson is already over 30 and Williams is 29. By 2014, both are in their 30s. :)

[Izulde]

Shocked Snell went that early. Saw him as 2nd rounder.

[MrBug708]

Solomon Hill to Indiana...wow

[mckerney]

And after trading the 26th the Wolves finish the first round getting Shabazz and Dieng. Guess it's time to stop paying attention to them until next years draft lottery.