Now I'm not saying I want graphics for a football sim...

[Dutch]

...but if I did, this is exactly how I'd ever really want them. Possibly isometric instead as an option. :)

http://blog.quickhit.com/wp-content/uploads/qh_preview_linedup.jpg

I guess I totally missed the hype around this game, and I'm also going to guess it never took off. Free NFL Football Is Coming This Fall! - QUICKHIT Blog - Free Online Football Games (http://blog.quickhit.com/2010/08/free-nfl-football-is-coming-this-fall/)

[NawlinsFan]

Agreed. Brooks has something similar in PFS but dots in place of player icons. Does add to the game.

[sjshaw]

I always loved PlayMaker Football for the Mac.

http://www.macgamefiles.com/imgs_screen/10207.jpg

[QuikSand]

A 2d viewer is a classic case of fool's gold, or at least has proven itself to be thus far.

If it's just a screen that illustrates the stuff that was determined already by the in-game engine, then it's unsatisfying after about the first four minutes of using it.

If the game is really making the game outcomes a result of the location of the little dots/ovals/helmets, then it's bound to be deep with terrible outcome decisions and/or exploit opportunities.

[Dutch]

A 2d viewer is a classic case of fool's gold, or at least has proven itself to be thus far.

If it's just a screen that illustrates the stuff that was determined already by the in-game engine, then it's unsatisfying after about the first four minutes of using it.

If the game is really making the game outcomes a result of the location of the little dots/ovals/helmets, then it's bound to be deep with terrible outcome decisions and/or exploit opportunities.

Sure, it couldn't be physics based...it would have to be pre-determined...it's best suited for a coaching game realistically.

[sqvirrel]

A 2d viewer is a classic case of fool's gold, or at least has proven itself to be thus far.

If it's just a screen that illustrates the stuff that was determined already by the in-game engine, then it's unsatisfying after about the first four minutes of using it.

If the game is really making the game outcomes a result of the location of the little dots/ovals/helmets, then it's bound to be deep with terrible outcome decisions and/or exploit opportunities.

I doubt I would use something like this, but I disagree that it would necessarily be 'unstatisfying', depending on the level of in-game coaching that players like. If a graphic engine would allow a viewer to observe who is dominating whom, which receivers are underutilized, etc. then it could absolutely add to the gaming experience.

This would also require more flexibility in adjusting schemes at different layers. I doubt it would be much fun to watch one of your tackles get beat repeatedly by a DE/OLB if you couldn't adjust your blocking schemes to compensate.

[Autumn]

Yes, in a game like FOF we couldn't read much into it. However, if it A) allowed us to see who was in on the play and a few things like who was covering the guy that caught the ball, that would be fantastic to know. And B) it certainly could be engaging. I spent hours and hours every week with my friends watching the little Xs and Os move on our football sim in high school and it was real drama. Having a moment of drama as something moves on the screen can be fun.

[Dutch]

If nothing else, having the formation and jersey#'s alone for each play would be an added element. No need for anything other a static display to validate who the heck is even on the field of play.

[cuervo72]

I'll admit, one thing that I've always had trouble with in FOF and OOTP is tracking player numbers. Probably because they are never seen in action as part of a jersey (rather than as nondescript text).

I don't know how much I would bother to watch a game. HTH, maybe. I did enjoy the predetermined outcomes in MicroLeague back in the day, but baseball is so much easier to represent than football.

[lastcat3]

Stratomatic has something similar to this (there's is the ratings of the players but it is still the same concept). In that game the only players movements that really make any sense are the players who make the plays. Seeing defensive players run away from the ball carrier instead of towards him really takes a lot out of the fantasy of it.

Unless they made all the players on the fields actions make sense (even the ones who weren't involved in making the play) I would prefer for them to stay with the text.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Speaking of a 2D viewer...

I've noticed a lot of wish-listing about wanting to know what the players who aren't mentioned are doing in the play - for example, who was in on the coverage, if there was a blown coverage, a missed tackle, etc.

Do we even know if these things are generated by the game engine? Are they particularly meaningful? I'd venture a guess that the answer is no to both, otherwise they would have been mentioned in the play-by-play already.

[Autumn]

I have to assume that who was covering the receiver is part of the game engine, since the database can show you 'thrown at' stats, and presumably the matchup has something to do with the result. However, I agree that there are some things that probably aren't in the engine that we might expect to see.

[redfox000]

...but if I did, this is exactly how I'd ever really want them. Possibly isometric instead as an option. :)

http://blog.quickhit.com/wp-content/uploads/qh_preview_linedup.jpg

I guess I totally missed the hype around this game, and I'm also going to guess it never took off. Free NFL Football Is Coming This Fall! - QUICKHIT Blog - Free Online Football Games (http://blog.quickhit.com/2010/08/free-nfl-football-is-coming-this-fall/)

I would gladly settle for the FBPro graphics!

[redfox000]

...but if I did, this is exactly how I'd ever really want them. Possibly isometric instead as an option. :)

http://blog.quickhit.com/wp-content/uploads/qh_preview_linedup.jpg

I guess I totally missed the hype around this game, and I'm also going to guess it never took off. Free NFL Football Is Coming This Fall! - QUICKHIT Blog - Free Online Football Games (http://blog.quickhit.com/2010/08/free-nfl-football-is-coming-this-fall/)

If they add graphics it needs to be a reflexion of the actual player ratings and what actually happens, not just a guess at what happened based on the pbp. I would image the entire engine would have to be changed so that the outcome is based on what actually happens during a play, rather than by dice rolls and such.

[redfox000]

Sure, it couldn't be physics based...it would have to be pre-determined...it's best suited for a coaching game realistically.

I see Im late to the game with my comment.....didn't read the thread first.

[redfox000]

Yes, in a game like FOF we couldn't read much into it. However, if it A) allowed us to see who was in on the play and a few things like who was covering the guy that caught the ball, that would be fantastic to know. And B) it certainly could be engaging. I spent hours and hours every week with my friends watching the little Xs and Os move on our football sim in high school and it was real drama. Having a moment of drama as something moves on the screen can be fun.

That wouldnt be XOR NFL CHALLENGE would? Still a very cool game in my opinion. I still pull it out and play it from time to time!

[redfox000]

Speaking of a 2D viewer...

I've noticed a lot of wish-listing about wanting to know what the players who aren't mentioned are doing in the play - for example, who was in on the coverage, if there was a blown coverage, a missed tackle, etc.

Do we even know if these things are generated by the game engine? Are they particularly meaningful? I'd venture a guess that the answer is no to both, otherwise they would have been mentioned in the play-by-play already.

I agree. From what I know based on another company that was developing a football game, the logic just determines the output of the play and a few key players involved and ignores the rest.

[Sef0r]

As long as it had no impact on the speed of running each stage then do whatever.

If there was ever a time when you wanted to look at a graphical view of a play, it would probably be the TD, INT players or something. But only if it is able to simulate and show what each position is doing. For 1 person doing this game to be released in a timely manner...impossible.

[Autumn]

That wouldnt be XOR NFL CHALLENGE would? Still a very cool game in my opinion. I still pull it out and play it from time to time!

Off the top of my head I think it was Pro League Football? Just Xs and Os but one of my friends still curses about the time Ron Rivera grabbed an INT off his Browns in the playoffs and ran it back. Waiting to see if that little X was going to jump in front of that O when the ball arrived had a lot of drama. Guy threw a lot of stuff around my house that day.

[aston217]

A 2d viewer is a classic case of fool's gold, or at least has proven itself to be thus far.

If it's just a screen that illustrates the stuff that was determined already by the in-game engine, then it's unsatisfying after about the first four minutes of using it.

If the game is really making the game outcomes a result of the location of the little dots/ovals/helmets, then it's bound to be deep with terrible outcome decisions and/or exploit opportunities.

I think you nailed it.

[MizzouRah]

I loved FPS just for the fact I could tell that someone like Deion Sanders was shutting down the other teams top receivers. I like visually seeing things instead of reading them. :)

[lastcat3]

I loved FPS just for the fact I could tell that someone like Deion Sanders was shutting down the other teams top receivers. I like visually seeing things instead of reading them. :)

Yes but in my opinion unless they can make the movement of every player on the field look realistic they should continue to leave it up to the imagination that the text brings.

[Firefly]

A 2d viewer is a classic case of fool's gold, or at least has proven itself to be thus far.

If it's just a screen that illustrates the stuff that was determined already by the in-game engine, then it's unsatisfying after about the first four minutes of using it.

If the game is really making the game outcomes a result of the location of the little dots/ovals/helmets, then it's bound to be deep with terrible outcome decisions and/or exploit opportunities.

What if it's the latter, but it's a web-based game, so that any exploits or bad outcomes can be relatively easily fixed and rolled out? That's what jdbakr is doing with MyFootballNow.

I confess I was skeptical, too, despite -or maybe because- I was part of the beta-testing. But it's getting better every day. Some outcomes may never be like the NFL, but they don't have to, IMO, as long as there's competitive balance. And it's fun to watch.