So, you're the new CEO of Barnes and Noble......

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Borders went bust. The Nook is failing. Everyone seems to be going to Amazon. The previous CEO was just fired the other day.

What's your strategy for keeping the company afloat? Is there anything that can be done to remain a vital business that can eventually expand in the future?

[Logan]

Enjoy my high salary while I have it, because it's not going to last long?

I really wouldn't know where to begin. Literally everything they do, Amazon does better with much less overhead I'm assuming.

My best guess, without knowing the company from the inside, would be to try to leverage the Nook technology/partnership with Android into something greater than what it is now.

[MacroGuru]

Nook is dead, they announced that the last qtr if I remember correctly.

So in essence to me B&N doesn't not have much longer to live.

[Butter]

Transition to more of a coffee shop, new media hangout instead of a straight-up bookstore? Smaller stores that drives traffic to your online store for e-books? Exclusive paper books available 1 month before the e-book availability date? Extremely low prices that will undercut e-books?

[Coffee Warlord]

Sad, because the Nook itself, if you root it and build a real android OS onto it, is a solid device.

[Doug5984]

The only thing they can do better than Amazon is offer a "buying experience" a lot of people still enjoy going walk around the store shopping for a book- or thats what I hear at least...

Do they do book buy backs? Sell used books? I'd look into trying to get a foot in that door- have to give people a value somewhere. If I ever want to buy a hard copy of a book I'll always order used on Amazon. Trade in values, bonus for books purchased there... something, anything. I don't know.

I'm starting to like the idea of simply enjoying my salary before it gos completely under. Maybe invest in a beach house somewhere

[Qwikshot]

Consolidate, slash some jobs, find some publishers willing to only release their books to you for the first few months (same electronically)...people love instant purchases, but they need a better promo gimic when you get to the store--to many choices...they gotta do what netflix and genius do, if you like this book, you'll love this.

They need to make the book, music, movie purchase better than what Amazon does.

[molson]

I don't know how much business they do but the smaller downtown bookstores here are packed all the time with events - writing groups, author Q&As and signings, even live music. It's not something that could sustain a bigger company, but any reinvention has to go in that direction, and that would only work in certain kinds of cities.

[Draft Dodger]

hire Pumpy as the spokesmodel

[QuikSand]

Go now and put deep, deep discounts on your board games, collectible card games, lego architecture sets, children's books, toys, and the like.

(worth a shot, anyone actually taking this gig might be sufficiently misguided into reading this thread)

[Thomkal]

As a former employee of B&N and my favorite job to date, there's probably not much that can be done to save it at this point. There are now so many other ways to get books without having to walk into a brick and mortar store-so many places like Walmart where you can get the latest books cheaper that its pretty inevitable they are going to have to close a lot of stores to survive. When I worked there, I got a full 40 hours and benefits, now at that same store, I don't think anyone gets anywhere close to 40 hours. If Books a Million went out of business they might be able to survive as the last big chain bookstore out there.

I think Butter probably has the best strategy of those mentioned so far-stop concentrating on books so much-make it more of a new media "event" style place-books, comic books, movies, TV shows, video games, computer and internet games-try to appeal to the younger generation who are increasingly stepping away from the appeal of having an actual book in their hands. They would likely need to close stores in a lot of smaller places, and keep the ones in the big cities/media centers. Maybe even change the name to something more "catchy" as nobody knows the story behind the business name at this point.

Nook needs to be resurrected, or some other reader created for those "gadget first" users.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Actually one of my first thoughts was that Barnes and Noble should get rid of their movie/music section. I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD or CD because their prices tend to be much, much higher than the competition. Also, it seems streaming is the wave of the future so I don't know if selling hard copies of movies, or video games is a viable plan for the future.

I think the idea mentioned earlier about selling used books and following the gamestop model of encouraging people to trade in books so they can turn around and make a higher profit on selling used books makes a lot of sense.

[Butter]

Yeah, but you end up with a lot of dead inventory that way. Plus, you have to spend a lot of capital to get that up and running. Best Buy has tried to do it with used games, not sure it's working all that well for them.

[DaddyTorgo]

I didn't think Nook was dead - guess it's good I didn't buy one the other day and went with a Kobo!

[JPhillips]

Pull back to marijuana legal states and add dispensaries.

[johneh]

Sell adult videos and toys. Add strippers. Hire a hot all female staff.

[cougarfreak]

Merge with 1/2 price books? Start doing the used book thing? Start selling/developing textbooks specific to Ereaders?

[BillJasper]

They have to figure out how to lower the prices on pretty much everything in their stores. An eight dollar paperback costs $5.50 at Wal-Mart.

[spleen1015]

Is Nook going away a reality or just speculation by some 'expert'?

[Buccaneer]

I love the buying experience of b&n but rarely go there because I hate to go someplace to shop that is not close to me.

[Alan T]

My daughter loves going to Barnes and Noble and reading with my wife or I. My wife likes how they have Starbucks inside and uses it as an excuse for getting coffee... I enjoy sitting there and reading while my wife goes shopping....

That said, I own a kindle so don't remember the last book for myself that I bought there. We get kids books there for my daughter but that is about it. Because of the device I own and how easy it is for me to get the content I want, it is a problem for B&N to win my business.

I am pretty sure that I am not alone here, so for B&N to survive, they have to figure out some way to combat that, and I don't really have a good answer for that. In some ways this is like how OS2/Warp died. Even if it had a superior product to Microsoft, everything that anyone wanted to buy was on Microsoft, and there was no way to compete with that.

The Nook was probably the right approach for them, they just did not execute it as well as amazon did.

[cody8200]

Slash jobs and stores and slash prices. Every book you sell gets the digital and paper version. Partner or purchase Audible so you can add the spoken version of the book as an add-on. Make the stores smaller and more of a boutique. Offer free shipping on online orders over $25. Exclusive author deals and work with publishers to sign popular indie authors that self publish. Basically double down on books and kill off everything else they sell besides the coffee places.

[digamma]

Children's books. And old people books. Nothing in between.

[sterlingice]

I'm not in the retail business so someone correct me if I'm wrong. How many buyers are there out there for box store sized stores? Are there many expanding into that marketplace right now? The reduce stores and reduce store size suggestions have to be brutally expensive, right? And they expanded in the 90s so these were more desirable locations back then but now are more "established" but not the trendy hot new areas you want to be.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Is Nook going away a reality or just speculation by some 'expert'?

The company is looking for a partner to make Nook color tablets under a "co-branding" agreement. It will continue to make black and white Nook e-readers and will still sell the tablets in its stores, she said.

They want to stop making the color Nook "tablets" themselves basically.

[Passacaglia]

Transition to more of a coffee shop, new media hangout instead of a straight-up bookstore?

I'm thinking something like this. And considering I also think you can't just "make store smaller" you have to do something with it -- maybe essentially an arcade? Let kids come in and rent some time using a console and a game at an hourly rate, and if they want to buy the game, hey, it's right there. Keep just enough books around to fool parents into thinking they're taking their kids to a bookstore, and you've still got enough space for a quiet area where people can sit and have coffee.

[BillJasper]

I guess the question they have to ask themselves is this: why do people want to go to their stores when everything they sell can be bought more cheaply/easily elsewhere?

I go to Wal-Mart/Kroger four times a month easily. The only time I go to a Barnes and Noble when I go to the theater and only when my wife wants a cup of coffee before or after the movie.

[Julio Riddols]

I'd ally with Amazon and tell them they can use our stores as "local store delivery" spots and warehouses to store their overflow or backstock. I would then remodel the stores so that half the space can be dedicated to that while maintaining some of the brick and mortar aspects of a book store. We'd rename the company to something like Barnes and Noble featuring Amazon or something. Then it would probably fail, but I'd have a whale of a time trying to make it work.

[Izulde]

I'd also dump the movies and music section. It used to be that they were a decent place to get foreign movies you couldn't get anyplace else, but Netflix/Hulu killed that, and as someone else mentioned, their prices are too high.

As for the rest of it, there's still value in the brick and mortar bookstore buying experience - however, I don't know if it can succeed on a national chain level anymore. What I think is far more likely is that the BMBS will transition to small, locally owned businesses dealing in the used book market, with a few newer titles.

[Logan]

I had been operating under the assumption that music/movies were just a space filler from overgrowth of stores and not selling enough books.

[Young Drachma]

Make the stores smaller, for starters. Cutting physical inventory will probably help. Alternatively just dominating the space for physical books would be best. Some people still just prefer to do that. So if you can find a way to do that and maybe if you really want to think outside of the box, create some kind of network of independent bookstores and with their distribution model they can get things shipped pretty fast...might be a way to essentially create a kind of monopoly without really doing that.

Turn books into the new Starbucks and see if they can't keep the model going. I think there are still large swaths of people who prefer to buy their books at a bookstore. Books aren't like music and even people who own Kindles and stuff are still often book buyers.

Not quite as DOA on the industry as others here.

[Young Drachma]

Take a page from the airlines and essentially retool their large empty areas when you remove inventory into study-type places where people buy a membership and then lease the space to a real full-fledged Starbucks and/or Panera where people can come in and interact. Sort of like Walmart does with McDonalds and having arcades and stuff.

[Logan]

Turn books into the new Starbucks and see if they can't keep the model going. I think there are still large swaths of people who prefer to buy their books at a bookstore. Books aren't like music and even people who own Kindles and stuff are still often book buyers.

I don't read anywhere near as much as I'd like to anymore, but I'd say that I like to browse for books at a bookstore, not buy them. I work a block away from a large B&N (46th and Madison for NYC people) and I like to duck in there after grabbing lunch and look around for a few minutes. If I see something I like, I'm pulling up Amazon on my phone and buying it significantly cheaper there in much less time than it would take me to go to the register. I'll have it in two days, even if I'm not paying for expedited shipping, which is probably before I'd start reading it anyway.

And within a year or so, if I were to do this early enough in the day, with how Amazon is moving, it might be waiting for me when I get home.

You have to do things REALLY WELL to justify paying so much more money for items. And is a book something that would ever meet that description for people? I doubt it.

[Logan]

Take a page from the airlines and essentially retool their large empty areas when you remove inventory into study-type places where people buy a membership and then lease the space to a real full-fledged Starbucks and/or Panera where people can come in and interact. Sort of like Walmart does with McDonalds and having arcades and stuff.

It would be a small help at first, but all it takes is a disruption to the retail industry and you're doubly fucked. A bookstore's business model to save itself can't be to become a landlord.

[Scoobz0202]

I don't read anywhere near as much as I'd like to anymore, but I'd say that I like to browse for books at a bookstore, not buy them. I work a block away from a large B&N (46th and Madison for NYC people) and I like to duck in there after grabbing lunch and look around for a few minutes. If I see something I like, I'm pulling up Amazon on my phone and buying it significantly cheaper there in much less time than it would take me to go to the register. I'll have it in two days, even if I'm not paying for expedited shipping, which is probably before I'd start reading it anyway.

And within a year or so, if I were to do this early enough in the day, with how Amazon is moving, it might be waiting for me when I get home.

You have to do things REALLY WELL to justify paying so much more money for items. And is a book something that would ever meet that description for people? I doubt it.

That's pretty much how I am. I fucking love bookstores. I really want them to succeed. I'm just not in the financial situation to spend extra dollars when I can save elsewhere. There is a really nice Books and Co. nearish to me and I stopped in there for the first time. Picked up numerous paperback books that were marked at $15+. I could save $30+ just buying five or so books from Amazon. I would love to support these businesses, but god damn.

I do really enjoy going to Half Priced Books, though. Its further away but when in the area I always like to pick up an armful.

[ISiddiqui]

It may have to try to get the "small bookstore" vibe. Train the employees up on books, or hire more book readers to work there. Do more recommendations of books. Start taking in some used books. Hold more author events, especially for smaller local releases. Start hosting events like poetry readings or book clubs.

[sterlingice]

What should a paperback cost?

SI

[Logan]

I can't believe it took until my fifth post in this thread to figure out the solution:

Serve beer.

[Butter]

There is a really nice Books and Co. nearish to me and I stopped in there for the first time.

I assume this is the one at The Greene? It is a really nice store, but it also seems very empty a lot when I go in there, which is usually to eat at the frozen yogurt place.

[cartman]

PING: shkspr

[Qwikshot]

I can't believe it took until my fifth post in this thread to figure out the solution:

Serve beer.

BRILLIANT!!!

[Solecismic]

Tough one, since I want independent book reviews before buying a book, and I find bookstores far too inconvenient for that purpose.

e-Readers may be the future. I'm a late adopter for this technology, considering how much I read. I still like to hold a book in my hands, but improvements in weight and "ink quality" on the readers may make this a silly luxury five years from now.

So I think B&N is already obsolete. Purchasing $3.00 coffee when I can brew it at home quite cheaply is no value to me. I'd just sell it off for parts at this point. Focusing on e-Readers seems too much like trying to be Blockbuster five years ago - putting off the inevitable. It had a nice run.

In general, our economy is paying a huge price for off-shoring most of our manufacturing industry. Of course, trying to reverse that would be like declaring war on most of the Asian world.

[Crapshoot]

I don't read anywhere near as much as I'd like to anymore, but I'd say that I like to browse for books at a bookstore, not buy them. I work a block away from a large B&N (46th and Madison for NYC people) and I like to duck in there after grabbing lunch and look around for a few minutes. If I see something I like, I'm pulling up Amazon on my phone and buying it significantly cheaper there in much less time than it would take me to go to the register. I'll have it in two days, even if I'm not paying for expedited shipping, which is probably before I'd start reading it anyway.

And within a year or so, if I were to do this early enough in the day, with how Amazon is moving, it might be waiting for me when I get home.

You have to do things REALLY WELL to justify paying so much more money for items. And is a book something that would ever meet that description for people? I doubt it.

That's sad I guess. I feel a sense of obligation to buy those books at the store if I discover them - I buy some at Amazon, some at my local bookstore, but I fully recognize the latter as me purposely paying extra for the privilege of having the bookstore around (and I recognize not everyone feels that way).

[Desnudo]

Sad, because the Nook itself, if you root it and build a real android OS onto it, is a solid device.

I really liked my nook color that was rooted. Of course now tablets cost as much as that did.

[Desnudo]

Borders went bust. The Nook is failing. Everyone seems to be going to Amazon. The previous CEO was just fired the other day.

What's your strategy for keeping the company afloat? Is there anything that can be done to remain a vital business that can eventually expand in the future?

Keep the Starbucks, turn the rest of it into a national chain of bounce houses.

[Shkspr]

PING: shkspr

Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to save my own bacon over here. :)

EDIT: I had a tl;dr response about halfway typed up, but I probably need to save that analysis for, you know, my bosses. Highlights, though:

Take the company private. It's the only way to implement core changes without worrying about short-term investor concerns. You had your shot at the long term with the Nook: you blew it.

Find a better product mix. Quiksand is 2/3 right in that board, toy, card, accessories need to enjoy focus, and some sort of discount is appropriate to build the lines, but maybe not so much on the "deep, deep" parts. If your 40% margin items are declining, maybe you can build up further promotion on your 60% items.

Ally with Google or Apple, if you want to play on the internet. At this point, rebranding the Google Book Store as B&N and leveraging the open garden app system is about the only weak spot the Kindles have at this point. That said, it's a big weak point.

Resist the temptation to severely cut labor percentage, cut selection, or cut internal distribution. There will need to be adjustments, but those are your three major service bulwarks against Amazon. The sole thing that will keep your business alive the longest is the ability to find books and put them in people's hands using skills more abstract than SEO. Cut any of those any further than your traffic warrants, and it will actually CAUSE a downturn in traffic. Death spiral.

The beer idea is closer to viable than you think, Logan. The company I work for had long involved arguments at the executive/director level about trying a wine bar instead of a coffee shop in one experimental store.

-----

Also, you guys are in New York. Hire somebody to hack in and erase all the kindles out there, firebomb datacenters, and whack Amazon leadership. What, like there isn't a single capo left?

[Dutch]

Associate with a Hooka Lounge.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Take the company private. It's the only way to implement core changes without worrying about short-term investor concerns.

From what I saw earlier today, that seems to be the plan. The longtime founder/Pres who basically won this power struggle has an offer on the table to buy the "retail assets" of the company. Not sure I understand what distinction that's making but that's how it read.

[cuervo72]

Wine and Oprah book clubs meetings!

[Suicane75]

Move every store they have to Saskatchewan and rebrand them as Barnes & Noble Classic Books.

[RainMaker]

I still think there is room for bookstores in this country. I just think that the industry grew way too quickly and became way too large. I'd consolidate, focus on locations that can be profitable, and go from there. That might mean cities, college towns, who knows. But I'd make a nice environment for people looking to browse, looking to have book clubs, and looking to have some coffee and read a little bit.

I think one of the big problems with the major chains is they all want to expand to ridiculous levels (or did). They have to realize that they are now a niche industry and make the most of it.

[SackAttack]

The sole thing that will keep your business alive the longest is the ability to find books and put them in people's hands using skills more abstract than SEO. Cut any of those any further than your traffic warrants, and it will actually CAUSE a downturn in traffic. Death spiral.

Went into the store I used to work at looking for "Emerald Sea" by John Ringo. They checked the computer, didn't have it. "Yeah, if it was published before about 2005, it doesn't get shipped to us. We can order it from the website and have it delivered to you, though."

Nope. I went in to the store for instant gratification. If you're going to push me online, you're going to push me to your competition, who can get it to me in two days for free, as opposed to 7-10 days for $5.

[Comey]

Go to a coffee shop mentality. Sell the Nook with a lending capability...buck a book for 2-3 weeks or a month. Books are free while in the store. Slash overhead and hope that people will come. Going up against starbucks and amazon is difficult alone, let alone both at once. So hit them where they can't hurt you...combine forces to offer what either can't individually.

[Lathum]

I think they need to partner up with some other retail giant to get more walk in traffic, Target,Walmart, whatever...

I rarely will make a special trip to a B&N, choosing instead to buy online, but if I am already having to go to Target, for example, I would be more inclined to pick something up there.

It seems to me B&N gets a fair bit of foot traffic, but many of those people are like my father who browse books, sit in comfy chairs, enjoy the air conditioning, and rarely buy anything.

Another idea is partner with movie theater chains, not only will it generate tons of traffic from people waiting for their movie to start, but it also gives them opportunity to sell books movies were based on, etc... I know there have been movies I have seen, that after seeing it I wanted to then read the book, but got lazy and never bought it after the fact.

[RainMaker]

Went into the store I used to work at looking for "Emerald Sea" by John Ringo. They checked the computer, didn't have it. "Yeah, if it was published before about 2005, it doesn't get shipped to us. We can order it from the website and have it delivered to you, though."

Nope. I went in to the store for instant gratification. If you're going to push me online, you're going to push me to your competition, who can get it to me in two days for free, as opposed to 7-10 days for $5.

In fairness, they can't possibly compete in that area. I think they have to just push bestsellers and other popular books from the past that will sell through.

I do like Lathum's idea. Why not put the B&N brand into a Target or Wal-Mart?

[Dutch]

This strategy, although funny, didn't really work. So don't try this one.

http://cl.jroo.me/z3/y/x/K/d/a.aaa-Borders-No-Public-Bathroom-T.jpg

[Drake]

I think they need to partner up with some other retail giant to get more walk in traffic, Target,Walmart, whatever...

I rarely will make a special trip to a B&N, choosing instead to buy online, but if I am already having to go to Target, for example, I would be more inclined to pick something up there.


I really dig this idea. I purchase most of the books I read digitally (because, honestly, I'm fucking out of shelf space)...but I still get that hankering to buy a real book pretty frequently. It feels like more of an "event" than a digital purchase. In my small town, what that translates to is always swinging by the book sections of the local Wal-Mart or pharmacy chain and seeing what they've got -- only to realize that it's just the same Top 20 Books Chicks are Reading shit it was the last time.

(Not really a criticism, because the numbers have indicated for years that women buy the vast majority of fiction. If you're a dude writing for dudes, you're going to have to work extra-hard to find an audience...or be named Clive Cussler, Neal Stephenson, or write in the Westerns ghetto.)

Back in the 80's, my favorite spot in the mall was the boutique bookstore (Waldenbooks) that was like a hyper-real Disney-crafted book experience -- fake hardwood floors, fake red oak bookshelves, lots of soothing greens and browns in the color palette, etc. I'd love to see something like that make a revival. You're not pretending to have all of the books ever printed, but you've expanded your stock from the Top 20 Hot Chick Books to maybe the Top 30 Hot Genre Books, plus some carefully selected "classics" in each category -- so you've always got things like Ender's Game or LOTR on hand.

You put a couple of people in there to do stock/customer service, but let Wal-Mart, Target or whoever handle the actual retail piece.

That sort of thing would easily double the time I spend in a place like Wal-Mart, and would make going to pick up some laundry detergent and cat food feel more like a destination outing than a chore.

Not sure you can build an entire business strategy around my preferences, though.

[Marc Vaughan]

Transition to more of a coffee shop, new media hangout instead of a straight-up bookstore? Smaller stores that drives traffic to your online store for e-books? Exclusive paper books available 1 month before the e-book availability date? Extremely low prices that will undercut e-books?

This ....

Continue to create the nook, allow people free access to books as a 'library system' when using your local coffee shop wifi - that'll encourage people to visit them and ensure a loyalty from your customer base because they'll naturally experiment and start reading items there (and if they don't purchase and read the entire thing there then you'll gain on coffee/food sales anyway).

[sachmo71]

sell inventory and rights to Nook to Amazon, cash out.

[Autumn]

Get some frigging customer service. I just tried to refund something through their Web site last night and it was a nightmare. I would be loathe to bother buying anything through their site after that when I know it's a million times easier through Amazon.

[path12]

I'm not in the retail business so someone correct me if I'm wrong. How many buyers are there out there for box store sized stores? Are there many expanding into that marketplace right now? The reduce stores and reduce store size suggestions have to be brutally expensive, right? And they expanded in the 90s so these were more desirable locations back then but now are more "established" but not the trendy hot new areas you want to be.

SI

This seems to me to be the biggest problem. Depending on the lease language they are just owning way too much square footage for what they are generating.

I'm sure most is leased which mitigates it some so it's not as dire as say K-Mart & Sears had to face when the commercial RE market tanked but still their return per SF has to be abysmal.

Don't know if the coffeeshop idea is that practical either. I sure remember a lot of Border's stores with full coffeeshops inside them.....

Brick and mortar retail has a LOT to figure out over this next decade or two.

[rowech]

Sue Apple?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Brick and mortar retail has a LOT to figure out over this next decade or two.

I suspect the biggest part of what b&m has to figure out is how to unload real estate/commitments and which way of disposing of inventory will generate the most revenue.

If book stores want to see their future, they need look no further than "record shops".

[QuikSand]

I honestly am unsure whether this is just a derivative of ideas posted here, or stuff I ruminated on my own... but I think the most intriguing idea is basically get in bed with Google.

If you could work with the existing huge footprint of B&N, and try to harness some of the Google brand cache, you could theoretically end up with some decent fraction of the excitement you (inexplicably, to most of us) see at Apple stores.

Keep the coffee. Expand the non-book, non-literary offerings. Maybe you do host the book/wine club meetings. Maybe you make these centers into LAN hotspots for multi-player gaming or whatnot. Maybe you offer an on-site music subscription service - some sort of modern on-site jukebox. Maybe you not only sell board games and card games, but you offer space for local players or tournaments or legobuilders or whatever.

Maybe you effectively rent out slots (plug-in, etc) to tech people and create a micro-incubator, of sorts. Maybe you even offer incubator-type services (central phone answering, office address, etc) for people locating their business there. Keep some retail, but with the full-size box space B&N occupies now, you could theoretically do a while mix of these things in various subspaces throughout.

I have no idea how you end up paying the rent long term, but the idea of creating an entirely new "hive" of various trendy activities in one space seems like it's a hail mary with more of a shot than many of the other ideas we have half-laughingly tossed around.


For me personally, the idea of a place where I (as a well-to-do, fairly tech-friendly, adult) could go and honestly spend two to four hours could be fairly intriguing. I drop in, buy a cup of coffee and a smoothie, maybe a sandwich or a snack, I pay something to get a "sneak preview" of a game of music or something, I plug into a high-performance network and do some communications/work on my own device, I play in a sealed deck CCG tournament where I just bought the cards on site, and then I still come home with more money in my pocket than if I had spent the same four hours in a bar.

Longshot. Interesting to think about, though.

[cuervo72]

So, a Dave & Buster's for classy folk.

[King of New York]

Pare down to nothing but college bookstores, where you still have a semi-captive (albeit shrinking) market of textbook buyers, and where you can make good money selling sweathshirts, t-shirts, and trinkets with school logos. As far as I can tell, that's about the only niche where B&N is still strong.

[sterlingice]

I honestly am unsure whether this is just a derivative of ideas posted here, or stuff I ruminated on my own... but I think the most intriguing idea is basically get in bed with Google.

If you could work with the existing huge footprint of B&N, and try to harness some of the Google brand cache, you could theoretically end up with some decent fraction of the excitement you (inexplicably, to most of us) see at Apple stores.

Keep the coffee. Expand the non-book, non-literary offerings. Maybe you do host the book/wine club meetings. Maybe you make these centers into LAN hotspots for multi-player gaming or whatnot. Maybe you offer an on-site music subscription service - some sort of modern on-site jukebox. Maybe you not only sell board games and card games, but you offer space for local players or tournaments or legobuilders or whatever.

Maybe you effectively rent out slots (plug-in, etc) to tech people and create a micro-incubator, of sorts. Maybe you even offer incubator-type services (central phone answering, office address, etc) for people locating their business there. Keep some retail, but with the full-size box space B&N occupies now, you could theoretically do a while mix of these things in various subspaces throughout.

I have no idea how you end up paying the rent long term, but the idea of creating an entirely new "hive" of various trendy activities in one space seems like it's a hail mary with more of a shot than many of the other ideas we have half-laughingly tossed around.


For me personally, the idea of a place where I (as a well-to-do, fairly tech-friendly, adult) could go and honestly spend two to four hours could be fairly intriguing. I drop in, buy a cup of coffee and a smoothie, maybe a sandwich or a snack, I pay something to get a "sneak preview" of a game of music or something, I plug into a high-performance network and do some communications/work on my own device, I play in a sealed deck CCG tournament where I just bought the cards on site, and then I still come home with more money in my pocket than if I had spent the same four hours in a bar.

Longshot. Interesting to think about, though.

I kindof get why Barnes & Noble would do that. But why would Google or anyone else? If you're Google- why get into B&M? Even if it's free (which would kill any bottom line Barnes & Noble would hope for)?

SI

[sterlingice]

I suspect the biggest part of what b&m has to figure out is how to unload real estate/commitments and which way of disposing of inventory will generate the most revenue.

If book stores want to see their future, they need look no further than "record shops".

This is something I've been wondering about for a while now. We're due for a giant rollback of commercial real estate from the boom of the 90s, right? Most of the box stores were built on infinite expansion, which is silly. And when those anchor stores start going bust, the rest of the center drops significantly.

Yes, we will still have grocery stores as a serviceable food delivery model hasn't caught on in anywhere but the densest of population centers. A lot of clothing requires you to try before you buy. But what about other stores? The construction boom fueled, well, construction stores like Home Depot and Lowe's. Electronics, Books, other Media, and Toy Stores have all expanded and contracted with one or two major names left and the rest fighting increasing competition from the discount sector (WalMart, Target) or online retailers. To a point, maybe there is a base level that will now have to function for show rooms but what other purpose do they serve?

Are we due for a large scaling back of corporate real estate and another round of blight?

SI

[path12]

I suspect the biggest part of what b&m has to figure out is how to unload real estate/commitments and which way of disposing of inventory will generate the most revenue.

If book stores want to see their future, they need look no further than "record shops".

Exactly. And then what happens to all that vacated real estate?

Don't get me wrong, there will always be a certain demand for brick and mortar. But let's take the mid-tier Department Store since that is mainly the sector I deal with.

The Forever 21's and H&M's and Zumiez of the world are where the kids are that Kohls and Sears and JCP want, but they have no interest in going there. JCP tried (really poorly IMO) and got killed. Those mid-tier stores are dinosaurs and have no idea how to prevent their eventual doom over the next twenty years or so. There are going to be tons of empty storefronts.

Hell, even Nordstrom is doing everything they can to try and capture the younger shopper and pouring huge resources into direct, and they are probably one of the healthiest brick & mortars around.

Fascinating yet scary to watch. My best guess is that local/specialty chains are going to rise up to take the place of the huge nationals -- they can focus better on a specific customer experience for a specific region.

That doesn't solve the commercial real estate problem though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Are we due for a large scaling back of corporate real estate and another round of blight?

I believe so. I look around my exurban area, there's vacant space all over town ... and a brand new supermega shopping center being built simultaneously, on previously undeveloped space.

The new one actually makes sense, it's sitting right alongside the fastest traffic growth in the area (a new stretch of highway that seems likely to cause a significant change in traffic patterns) & it was actually underserved with retail in the immediate vicinity even without the new road.

The problem is that the vacancies are both in less desirable areas and making their areas less desirable.

It seems a lot of the latest busts are the recent booms, which were heavily built out. That space is going to be less & less attractive over time, and yeah, I figure it's going to be sitting there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Forever 21's and H&M's and Zumiez of the world are where the kids are that Kohls and Sears and JCP want, but they have no interest in going there. JCP tried (really poorly IMO) and got killed. Those mid-tier stores are dinosaurs and have no idea how to prevent their eventual doom over the next twenty years or so. There are going to be tons of empty storefronts.

Interesting, largely because (anecdotally) I can't think of any clothing retail here that's more consistently busy here than Kohl's.

[path12]

Interesting, largely because (anecdotally) I can't think of any clothing retail here that's more consistently busy here than Kohl's.

Kohl's can move a ton of product but they own a lot of real estate and their demo shopper is getting older, not younger.

They are doing better than most and I'll do anything it takes to keep them happy, but the writing is on the wall for that entire sector.

Margins continue to erode because they have trained their customer to wait for big sale/clearance. You can prop that up with increased private label/increased demand on suppliers for margin support but that also brings more risk in the first case and there is only so much blood to be wrung out of that turnip in the second.

[Pyser]

Went into the store I used to work at looking for "Emerald Sea" by John Ringo. They checked the computer, didn't have it. "Yeah, if it was published before about 2005, it doesn't get shipped to us. We can order it from the website and have it delivered to you, though."

Nope. I went in to the store for instant gratification. If you're going to push me online, you're going to push me to your competition, who can get it to me in two days for free, as opposed to 7-10 days for $5.

yep. its mind-boggling how many books a THREE STORY bookstore doesnt carry. what is on all those shelves??

[DaddyTorgo]

Kohl's can move a ton of product but they own a lot of real estate and their demo shopper is getting older, not younger.

They are doing better than most and I'll do anything it takes to keep them happy, but the writing is on the wall for that entire sector.

Margins continue to erode because they have trained their customer to wait for big sale/clearance. You can prop that up with increased private label/increased demand on suppliers for margin support but that also brings more risk in the first case and there is only so much blood to be wrung out of that turnip in the second.

If they own the real estate they're actually in a better place than most. Look at what happened with Dillard's. Similarly, they owned a lot of the real estate under their stores. They spun it off into a REIT in order to monetize it in order to increase cash flow. Then it's all about what you do with that cash flow of course.

[CU Tiger]

I've never been much of a"reader"...as I generally find fiction (in any form print, tv, movie) to be a waste of time on pretend. However I have been an avid consumer of self help/business type books through tape ->cd->podcast/mp3...so I've never spent more than an instant on this thought prior to reading this thread tonight...

However, whileim sure this is obvious to everyone and old news to everyone but me, it just occurred to me the full effect of e convergence. In 100 years there will be virtually no classic old books. No physical media of any kind. How will people collect antique books/music/toys....

Or is the e convergence a fad...will people soon wax nostalgic for hard copies and result in a resurgence on b&m retailers who are trendy and old school like steam punk for books.

Honestly, to answe the original question....I don't take the job. It's a no win short term propsition and will be a career dead end.

[Galaxy]

I don't read anywhere near as much as I'd like to anymore, but I'd say that I like to browse for books at a bookstore, not buy them. I work a block away from a large B&N (46th and Madison for NYC people) and I like to duck in there after grabbing lunch and look around for a few minutes. If I see something I like, I'm pulling up Amazon on my phone and buying it significantly cheaper there in much less time than it would take me to go to the register. I'll have it in two days, even if I'm not paying for expedited shipping, which is probably before I'd start reading it anyway.

And within a year or so, if I were to do this early enough in the day, with how Amazon is moving, it might be waiting for me when I get home.

You have to do things REALLY WELL to justify paying so much more money for items. And is a book something that would ever meet that description for people? I doubt it.

This is how I am. It's amazing how much cheaper books tend to be on Amazon (I understand "why," but still.) Barnes and Nobles offers the experience of browsing books that Amazon just can't offer, and I do pick up new books I won't come across on Amazon just through browsing, but it won't convert into a purchase-I'll check out and usually order on Amazon.

[Passacaglia]

So it looks like Barnes and Noble is back, and I just remembered this thread. Anyone want to take credit and say they followed your advice?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I believe so. I look around my exurban area, there's vacant space all over town ... and a brand new supermega shopping center being built simultaneously, on previously undeveloped space.

The new one actually makes sense, it's sitting right alongside the fastest traffic growth in the area (a new stretch of highway that seems likely to cause a significant change in traffic patterns) & it was actually underserved with retail in the immediate vicinity even without the new road.

The problem is that the vacancies are both in less desirable areas and making their areas less desirable.

It seems a lot of the latest busts are the recent booms, which were heavily built out. That space is going to be less & less attractive over time, and yeah, I figure it's going to be sitting there.

Since this thread got necromanced, let's see how this local prediction I made turned out.

The new development in question became the hottest thing going ... then Covid led to a recycling of basically all the restaurants on the outparcels. But they have reloaded now, with several more places than there were originally AND a Costco went in across the road (as did the world's most oversized Hobby Lobby parking lot). And several more restaurants on the road leading up to it. edit to add: oh, and a new sizable healthcare facility just open on a road leading to that area as well, following the lead of at least three others on the opposite side of it.

As for the stuff that was vacant then, yep, still vacant. Unless it was bulldozed. And the most ambitious project announced to revitalize the most steadily dying spot -- around the mall -- hasn't done a thing in two years, despite the $650m plan (funded largely by taxpayers in the form of a tax allocation district). The only impact of the six year plan thus far has been to steadily kill off more & more businesses on the same road, as property owners started closing out leases in hopes of getting bought out by the new project.

[Drake]

I had much stronger opinions on things in 2013 than I have on anything today.

I don't know if that's mellowing with age, defeat, or just disinterest. I sort of miss the 2013 version of me. He used f-bombs a lot more.

[Ksyrup]

Same. Except I use the same number of F bombs.

[dubb93]

I was listening to a podcast the other day and one of the hosts mentioned that he spent a day off at Barnes and Noble. I guess that has become a thing now? People just hang out in the store? Seemed like an odd plan for a day to me but could explain how they have made a comeback if they have convinced people they are a place to spend a day.

[HerRealName]

I was listening to a podcast the other day and one of the hosts mentioned that he spent a day off at Barnes and Noble. I guess that has become a thing now? People just hang out in the store? Seemed like an odd plan for a day to me but could explain how they have made a comeback if they have convinced people they are a place to spend a day.

What a loser. I certainly haven't hung out at the Barnes and Noble for hours while my wife and daughter shop. Theoretically, this would probably translate to sales since I would likely end up leafing through books until I find one/some I like and then buy it/them.

[GrantDawg]

Not to mention, buy a coffee and some pastry to help pass the time. And then poop, because something about books causes people to poop. At least I have heard.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[dubb93]

What a loser. I certainly haven't hung out at the Barnes and Noble for hours while my wife and daughter shop. Theoretically, this would probably translate to sales since I would likely end up leafing through books until I find one/some I like and then buy it/them.

Not judging at all. I’ve gone all digital in my reading as it was brought to my attention by my children that books neatly placed on a bookcase could very easily and repeatedly become books absolutely everywhere. Even as they have gotten older I’ve just kept the digital habit. My kids read now but we usually just pick their books up at Wal Mart or similar big box stores.

[HerRealName]

Not judging at all. I’ve gone all digital in my reading as it was brought to my attention by my children that books neatly placed on a bookcase could very easily and repeatedly become books absolutely everywhere. Even as they have gotten older I’ve just kept the digital habit. My kids read now but we usually just pick their books up at Wal Mart or similar big box stores.

I very much deserve to be judged :) I tried to go the digital route but the old man in me just enjoys have a physical book.

[Thomkal]

I was listening to a podcast the other day and one of the hosts mentioned that he spent a day off at Barnes and Noble. I guess that has become a thing now? People just hang out in the store? Seemed like an odd plan for a day to me but could explain how they have made a comeback if they have convinced people they are a place to spend a day.


That's almost always been like that-social hangout where families can spend time together-there is usually a separate kids section with storytimes and other activities based on what's popular these days. Magazines for teens/adults that are not that interested in reading books, author signings, community events, studying with a coffee/pastry etc. Mostly comfortable chairs all over the store where you can read mostly in peace and even take a nap.

[cuervo72]

Physical books are CHEAP. That is, if you aren't looking for the latest and greatest. Though even then, I've gotten fairly recent titles from the library (they may buy 10 copies of a new book, then sell them when demand for the title goes down ($1/HC .50/PB). I've been to sales where you pay $5 to fill a brown paper bag (or 3 for $10). Our local used bookstore has shelves outside the shop where you can buy 5/$5. Then there are thrift stores. I've amassed a few hundred books this way. Does it take up shelf space? Sure, but I love bookshelves.

[Passacaglia]

Also, if you're looking for hard to find stuff, thriftbooks.com is amazing.

[QuikSand]

fun thread