NFL Week 8

[Solecismic]

Apparently, a local radio station in Tampa has bought some "Fire Schiano" time on a highway billboard. Sounds like a bad situation getting worse.

Anyone remember back a few years when Schiano turned Michigan down, leading very quickly to the desperation hire of Rich Rodriguez? I used to think Schiano would have been a better option. Now I'm not so sure. Well, I am sure. He would have been a better option. But not by much.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Anyone remember back a few years when Schiano turned Michigan down, leading very quickly to the desperation hire of Rich Rodriguez? I used to think Schiano would have been a better option. Now I'm not so sure. Well, I am sure. He would have been a better option. But not by much.

I remember this very well. Ever since he rejected Michigan, I wished nothing but ill will on his person. As a result, I've enjoyed watching flame out.

[Logan]

He's a program builder, not a high level winning coach. I don't think Kyle Flood is the answer for Rutgers heading into the B1G, but I know, seeing how he coached over his last couple years here, that Schiano would not have been successful in that league.

Outside of the story of Schiano personally leaking the Freeman/drugs thing to the media, I've believed every word of what I heard coming out of Tampa, and wasn't surprised by any of it. You can't be a bad coach AND treat millionaire professionals like they're 19 year old kids. Tom Coughlin got away with doing that because he actually was a good coach. Schiano was a micromanager to the fullest extent, and that turned away coaches from wanting to work for him. It's why he needed to bring so many Rutgers coaches with him to Tampa...the pool of coaches that could tolerate him was very small.

He's a great defensive mind but he also knows nothing about offense yet refused to turn that area of the game over to his assistants and not meddle.

Once he's fired, he could probably join Belichick as his DC as they run the same system (a reason so many Rutgers kids are on that team). If a big program school makes a run at him, I'll laugh and laugh.

[B & B]

Its quite simple. Some coaches and their coaching techniques do much better in college than pro. Some coaches are the opposite. While football might be football, coaching a 19-22 year old walk on or scholarship player is nothing like coaching a grown man making millions of dollars.

Spurrier comes to mind, good with NCAA, poor at NFL. Schiano is the same. He will be a fine NCAA coach as he can be the hard ass 'my way or the highway' with kids. His shit doesn't fly down in TB, and it wont work anywhere else. The only way you get to operate like that is when you have an established body of work at that level of pro sports. Coughlin and Bellichick can get away with things that say Kubiak would not.

Schiano is no Kubiak. In three years he will be a HC in a mid level NCAA program. Bank it.

[B & B]

Find it very odd that Logan and I mentioned the same 3 coaches in our answers, as I was writing before seeing his post.

[Glengoyne]

Its quite simple. Some coaches and their coaching techniques do much better in college than pro.

My favorite example of this was Jerry Tarkanian. He was all world at UNLV, and didn't make it 40 games in the NBA. His assistant coaches however, Ron Adams and Tim Grgurich(sp?) stuck in the NBA. Adams to this day, and Grg..err..Tim, until he retired.

When Tark was coaching at Fresno State, I'd occasionally see better coaches take total advantage of Jerry's kids. I was lamenting that Tark left his brain in the NBA. To give Tark credit, he'd occasionally fire his team up such that they stuck with better coached teams, like Bill Self's teams at Tulsa.

[Matthean]

Anyone remember back a few years when Schiano turned Michigan down, leading very quickly to the desperation hire of Rich Rodriguez? I used to think Schiano would have been a better option. Now I'm not so sure. Well, I am sure. He would have been a better option. But not by much.

RR likes to talk about how he almost because 'Bama's coach which led to Saban going there instead. He would have gown down in flames there as well.

I remember people here talking about how Schiano was more of a recruiter than a good game management type of guy. My response was he was being asked to do the one thing he wasn't good at and wasn't allowed to do the one thing he was good at. I'm not surprised he's failing there. I know Rutgers likely has some sort of ceiling in terms of how far the program can go, but he seemed like a guy who needed to build the program more before getting an NFL job. At least with Saban, he had more years in the NFL and a higher position.

[Carman Bulldog]

Wait, I thought miked was just the past tense posts of Mike D.

http://andwhatsnext.com/wp-content/uploads/beastie-boys-mike-d.jpg

[cuervo72]

Man, if anyone in the CAR secondary could actually catch...

[Julio Riddols]

Glennon needs to learn the art of the checkdown.

[Julio Riddols]

Mike James might be an ok back though, from what little I saw of him. He picks up blitzes really well, seems to have decent hands, and runs effectively.

[Dutch]

I saw Steve Mariucci tonight and I said, "Hey Coach! The weather sure is nice in Tampa. Think about it." and he was about to say something, then just smiled, shook his head and slapped my back as he walked past.

[Radii]

How different would we be viewing the Panthers right now if Williams hadn't fumbled in the red zone at the end of the Seattle game or if Rivera had just gone for a damn 4th and 1 to seal the Buffalo game.

[Julio Riddols]

I see them as a legit threat anyway. Their defense is so consistently good and Kuechly might be the best LB in the league.

[Dutch]

Well, at least we have fans with a sense of humor. A Schiano Breaking Bad Chem Suit (ref to MRSA drama). And the most damning sign in the endzone that read "Schiano is worse than MRSA"

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3453641/YELLOW1_medium.jpg

[Thomkal]

Brady might be hurt-his throwing hand is swelling pretty bad. Still in the game though.

[BillJasper]

Brady might be hurt-his throwing hand is swelling pretty bad. Still in the game though.

You have to wonder why he's still in there?

[Thomkal]

You have to wonder why he's still in there?

Because he's Brady I guess. Also Vick's hamstring acted up again and he's out probably for the rest of the game. Looking good for the Giants to pick up another win with Barkley in as QB.

[BillJasper]

I fucking hate being a Miami Dolphins fan!

[ColtCrazy]

How do the Pats do it? I swear someone has a deal with the devil for the way teams fall apart playing them.

First we spy on Merkel for Germany, then send Jags to England. Europe must hate us.

[cuervo72]

Dunno, but it's tiresome.

[miami_fan]

YOU GOTTA FUCKIN KIDDING ME!

[BillJasper]

What a bullshit call.

[TroyF]

What a bullshit call.

One of the worst calls I have ever seen in an NFL football game. A defensive lineman battles for the football, dives to the ground and hits the ball and it's a penalty? Holy hell, that is just comical.

"Well, they've had some good breaks today" Phil Simms Ummm, understatement of the history of the planet. What a joke.

[Desnudo]

Rules are rules. It's hard to remember a recent call like that...

And he clearly swats it.

[TroyF]

Rules are rules. It's hard to remember a recent call like that...

And he clearly swats it.

His arm is going sideways as he's falling to the ground. I don't think it is at all clear. And in that situation, unless someone is doing a holy roller, it should not be called. That was horrible.

[miami_fan]

Oh NOW you think he was trying to pull it in?

[TroyF]

The Chiefs just recovered a fumble by a Browns punt returner (and good thing, because the Browns would have had the ball at the Chiefs 40 down 3 if they hadn't. First play after the fumble, they call a flea flicker and get sacked.

At least it turned out better than the Theisman one.

In typical Browns fashion, they allow a screen pass to go for 20 to the clearly hobbled Charles and give up a first down. (sorry for the sarcasm, but the guy has the third most carries in the NFL and the second most touches.

They just showed the the replay of the Dolphin. He didn't bat that ball. I stick with what I said. That call was terrible. Just terrible.

[BillJasper]

At least the Dolphins went ahead a cleared up the rest of the football season for me. No sense in watching them crash and burn yet again. :lol:

[BillJasper]

It'll be interesting to see if the Chiefs can hang with some of the high-scoring teams.

[BillJasper]

Terrelle Pryor is fast!

[RedKingGold]

Pryor 7 yards away from 100 yards rushing . . .with 14 minutes and change to go in the 1st quarter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another week, another win. The trick play by the Browns made it a game, but another great final quarter for the defense as they shut down the Browns when they need to do so. The penalties in the 4th quarter caused by the crowd noise were also crucial.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What's the record for a QB rush?

[Danny]

Megatron 25 yards from setting single game record

[Matthean]

Lions have out gained the Cowboys by 300 yards and are losing.

Or not.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lions have out gained the Cowboys by 300 yards and are losing.

Not anymore ;)

[BillJasper]

Nice drive by Stafford!

[TroyF]

WOW. What a game.

[Danny]

Romo chokes away another one

[Julio Riddols]

Wow, Calvin.

[Matthean]

Not anymore ;)

I had to do an edit because I posted and saw the score.

[Matthean]

Romo chokes away another one

Damn him for not covering Megatron better.

[mckerney]

Seemed like it was about time for this thread.

So how about those Lions? And what a play by Pryor!

[Julio Riddols]

Wow, Calvin.

[Thomkal]

wow what a scoring drive by Detroit and the fake down call by Stafford for the TD. Dez Bryant screaming at Romo and Witten, and Megatron clearly shows who's the better receiver. What a game by him.

[Glengoyne]

Romo chokes away another one

Hehe. You beat me to the punch.
Effing Romo

[frnk55]

I'm so glad I'm not a Cowboy fan. Ouch.

[BillJasper]

Time for Romo to earn his money.

[BillJasper]

The Cowboys just look stunned.

[Jas_lov]

Matty Stafford just showed Tony Romo how to win a big ballgame with a clutch game wining drive. Jason Garrett should be fired for letting this one slip away.

[Danny]

Megatron is probably the most dominant receiver I have ever seen play, including rice

[Matthean]

Hehe. You beat me to the punch.
Effing Romo

Did he get the holding call that stopped the clock at 1:07? I just want to know how a QB puts up 3 TDs with no INTs and a 102.6 rating and yet he's the one to blame? Again, Dallas's D gave up 623 yards.

[BillJasper]

Jason Garrett should be fired for letting this one slip away.

Day's still young.

[larrymcg421]

Wait a second. Are the Romo comments in this thread and the other one serious? I was taking them as a joke, but now I'm not so sure.

[BillJasper]

Wow, Calvin.

Maybe Jerry Jones should've been more worried about Calvin Johnson! :lol:

[TroyF]

Did he get the holding call that stopped the clock at 1:07? I just want to know how a QB puts up 3 TDs with no INTs and a 102.6 rating and yet he's the one to blame? Again, Dallas's D gave up 623 yards.

Pretty sure both of those guys were being sarcastic there. Romo didn't have the greatest game, but he didn't turn the ball over and threw three TD's.

[TroyF]

Announcers completely missed this on the first Washington drive, but Denver used Miller as a spy on both Washington passing plays. He tackled him on the second. The Broncos are not going to allow Griffin to beat them with his legs.

It was a clear pick play on the TD. I would not have been unhappy had they called the penalty on Denver, even if it does happen all the time. I was surprised the DB's didn't complain about it.

[Danny]

Wait a second. Are the Romo comments in this thread and the other one serious? I was taking them as a joke, but now I'm not so sure.

Mine was a joke

[Danny]

I love the way the raiders are playing this year

[mckerney]

Wait a second. Are the Romo comments in this thread and the other one serious? I was taking them as a joke, but now I'm not so sure.

It wouldn't surprise me if people blamed him for not putting the game away at the end, but looking at the last by play was the result of shitty conservative party calling that was more worried about not stopping the clock than actually gaining yards.

[Solecismic]

I'd start with firing Dick Stockton and Brian Billick. They were going on and on about how Dallas had won the game, and some bleating about perfect NFC records and how they'd make the playoffs.

Meanwhile, they ignored the fact that the clock stops after a declined penalty in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter. Which, in turn, gave Stafford a little over a minute to score, rather than the 20 seconds he would have had if there hadn't been a penalty.

The play of the game was some unknown lineman who decided to hold on 3rd-and-14. Billick and Stockton were too busy claiming the fat lady had already sung to even point it out.

[Danny]

It wouldn't surprise me if people blamed him for not putting the game away at the end, but looking at the last by play was the result of shitty conservative party calling that was more worried about not stopping the clock than actually gaining yards.

And they still wild have won if that holding call didn't happen which stopped the clock and prevented 40 seconds from running off

[TroyF]

I'd start with firing Dick Stockton and Brian Billick. They were going on and on about how Dallas had won the game, and some bleating about perfect NFC records and how they'd make the playoffs.

Meanwhile, they ignored the fact that the clock stops after a declined penalty in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter. Which, in turn, gave Stafford a little over a minute to score, rather than the 20 seconds he would have had if there hadn't been a penalty.

The play of the game was some unknown lineman who decided to hold on 3rd-and-14. Billick and Stockton were too busy claiming the fat lady had already sung to even point it out.

Agreed, they were even going on about "Should Dallas kick the field goal or run another play"

Because of that penalty, that wasn't even a decision. Run one play and give the Lions 1:00 to drive and kick a FG? Ummm, no. You have to go up 7. Then they do what you talked about. Went on about the game being over. No, the game was never over. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Danny]

Palmer is so bad lol

[bhlloy]

So at some point last night my trade for Calvin Johnson went through, leaving him on my bench and a big hole in my RB1 spot all day. FML

(and I'm playing the commish, so I hope it's just me being a dumbass rather than some shady timing)

[Danny]

Honestly, That's on you for not checking in before the games started today. Yahoo for example always processes stuff in the early am

[jbergey22]

Go high powered Eagles offense. Break all of them records some people were expecting you to break after week 1.

The call to not run McCoy on 1st down at the 1 with 2 timeouts left and 1 minute remaining in the first half was an awful decision by Chip.

[JPhillips]

Jinx.

[Thomkal]

Hey look a Carson Palmer INT!

[Danny]

Giants back in the division race all of a sudden

[Thomkal]

Hey look a Carson Palmer INT :)

[Danny]

Lol Palmer is the suck

[miami_fan]

Can someone who saw the game explain how Dez Bryant only gets targeted six times and Jason Witten gets targeted twice in a game? I thought it was impossible to take both of those guys.

[Julio Riddols]

I love the way the raiders are playing this year

Terrelle Pryor is really surprising me as a QB, he's been more than just a scrambler, which I'd say bodes well for the Raiders going forward.

[Julio Riddols]

I think Andy Dalton has had a light come on the past few weeks. The Bengals offense hasn't been this good since 05.

[claphamsa]

I think Andy Dalton has had a light come on the past few weeks. The Bengals offense hasn't been this good since 05.

would be super awesome to watch... fucking racistskins

[Matthean]

Giants back in the division race all of a sudden

They are the cockroaches of the NFL. Considering how low the bar is for winning that division, they can't be ruled out.

Can someone who saw the game explain how Dez Bryant only gets targeted six times and Jason Witten gets targeted twice in a game? I thought it was impossible to take both of those guys.

Probably why there was such infighting in the end.

Also, Lions have the leg up over Carolina for the last seed in the playoffs based on remaining schedule.

[Danny]

Got to get butler out of the game. Second drop and this one causes an int

[claphamsa]

Got to get butler out of the game. Second drop and this one causes an int

megatron had 2 turnovers despite his 300+yards.... so what?

[cuervo72]

Way to give away 4 points, Denver.

[Danny]

megatron had 2 turnovers despite his 300+yards.... so what?

Uh, did you just compare Brice butler to Calvin Johnson?

A #4 wr can't be causing turnovers

[kingfc22]

Is it just me or does this year's NFL have by far the highest number of CRAP teams in a while.

Jaguars, Rams, Steelers, Eagles, Vikings, Bucs, Giants, Raiders.

I mean these teams have no chance unless they are facing one another.

[Danny]

Suisham may be out of a job

[Danny]

Raiders not a crap team. Not good but very competitive

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Let's go Hogs!

[kingfc22]

Hmmm. Maybe Indy gave the rest of the league the blueprint on how to slow down the Broncos.

[Jas_lov]

The dynamic Broncos offense has scored but 7 points against the team that gave up 40 to Josh McKnown last week. Chiefs may have a 2 game lead for that division.

[claphamsa]

Uh, did you just compare Brice butler to Calvin Johnson?

A #4 wr can't be causing turnovers

I did... i mean you only talked about 2 TOs... megatron had 2.. so did whoever your talking about.

(this means you need to take more into account)

[RedKingGold]

I know it's UIC, but..hehe.."Josh McKnown".

[Danny]

I did... i mean you only talked about 2 TOs... megatron had 2.. so did whoever your talking about.

(this means you need to take more into account)

On you mean like Calvin 330 yards and butler 0??????

[claphamsa]

no i mean 2 TOs.

[claphamsa]

also I would love to actually be able to watch this game...Bengals embarrassing the Jets... as if being the Jets wasn't embarrassing enough

[Matthean]

Lol Palmer is the suck

Ryan making him look like a Hall-of-Famer.

[TroyF]

The dynamic Broncos offense has scored but 7 points against the team that gave up 40 to Josh McKnown last week. Chiefs may have a 2 game lead for that division.

Ummmmm, no. Bad int there by Manning though. Game should have been over there. Gave Washington life they should not have had. Denver has dominated this game and were even when the score was 21-7, Miller has been in beast mode the entire fourth quarter.

[TroyF]

OK. Now the game is over.

[kingfc22]

Hmmm. Maybe Indy gave the rest of the league the blueprint on how to slow down the Broncos.

Shame on me. I forgot to account for the fact that they were playing an NFC East team.

[Lathum]

Remember when people thought RG3 was better than Luck

[Lathum]

wow, great pick by Cromartie but extremely classless.

[TroyF]

Shame on me. I forgot to account for the fact that they were playing an NFC East team.

What exactly did Indy do though? They got outgained by 100 yards, used two short fields to get 14 points, saved another 7 points by a Bronco dropping the ball on the two yard line and barely won a game at home after Denver struggled.

Not sure that is learning anything to be honest. When someone holds them under 30, talk to me. I liked seeing the pass rush come back to life. Miller is getting back into it. When he gets alive, the D will get better.

I could have lived without the taunting though. Classless there.

[jbergey22]

What exactly did Indy do though?

Pressured the edges. Made Manning look uncomfortable. Exposed some weakness.

[Dutch]

wow, great pick by Cromartie but extremely classless.

At some point you gotta let the offense just body slam a dude like that.

[Julio Riddols]

also I would love to actually be able to watch this game...Bengals embarrassing the Jets... as if being the Jets wasn't embarrassing enough

It was a pleasure to behold. Marvin Jones might be the number 2 we've been looking for. 4 TD's, Goodness.

[TroyF]

Pressured the edges. Made Manning look uncomfortable. Exposed some weakness.

They did it with the oline missing two regulars and a really strange gameplan from Denver. I think the Chiefs will do better. Not good enough, but better.

Officials continue to miss player safety calls time and time again. Woodyard should have had a oenalty there. Holliday got his head twisted off earlier with no call. No excuse for missing those types of calls.

[TroyF]

At some point you gotta let the offense just body slam a dude like that.

Agreed. Another spot where college has it right. Taunt on your way to the end zone, lose the td.

[ColtCrazy]

Agreed. Another spot where college has it right. Taunt on your way to the end zone, lose the td.

Amen. Thought it was totally classless. You could tell Elway felt the same way. Bet the GM gives him a little talking to.

[Thomkal]

Dear Roger Goodell,

Can you please move my beloved Cardinals to the NFC South for the rest of the season please?

Cards 0-3 in the NFC West, 3-0 against the NFC South and dominated CAR and ATL.

Tip of the hat to Larry Fitzgerald on his 800th reception and the record he set when he got it-youngest to that landmark.

[StLee]

Dear Roger Goodell,

Can you please move my beloved Cardinals to the NFC South for the rest of the season please?

Cards 0-3 in the NFC West, 3-0 against the NFC South and dominated CAR and ATL.

Tip of the hat to Larry Fitzgerald on his 800th reception and the record he set when he got it-youngest to that landmark.

Week 3: New Orleans 31, Arizona 7. So the Cardinals are 3-1 against the NFCS, but the Saints appreciate their help! :D

[Jas_lov]

So many people just want to hand Peyton the MVP but my vote right now would go to Aaron Godgers. He's doing this with a mash unit on offense. No Jones, no Finley, no Cobb. And how irrelevant did Greg Jennings make himself by leaving GB?

McCarthy Coach of the Year, Godgers MVP, Ed Lacy Offensive ROY, Micah Hyde Defensive ROY, AJ Hawk Defensive POY, Johnny Jolly Comeback POY. I would say those are the frontrunners at the halfway point.

[mckerney]

Ponder had nearly 100 yards in the first 3 quarters, IT'S A SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL MIRACLE!

[Matthean]

Whoever brought up keeping Lacy versus looking into Bell in a fantasy league thread, you're welcome. :lol: The difference in time of possession in this game is rather impressive.

[Danny]

So many people just want to hand Peyton the MVP but my vote right now would go to Aaron Godgers. He's doing this with a mash unit on offense. No Jones, no Finley, no Cobb. And how irrelevant did Greg Jennings make himself by leaving GB?

McCarthy Coach of the Year, Godgers MVP, Ed Lacy Offensive ROY, Micah Hyde Defensive ROY, AJ Hawk Defensive POY, Johnny Jolly Comeback POY. I would say those are the frontrunners at the halfway point.

Is this supposed to be a joke? I dont feel much like analyzing all those categories, but c'mon Andy Reid is the clear cut coach of the year at this point.

[TroyF]

So many people just want to hand Peyton the MVP but my vote right now would go to Aaron Godgers. He's doing this with a mash unit on offense. No Jones, no Finley, no Cobb. And how irrelevant did Greg Jennings make himself by leaving GB?

McCarthy Coach of the Year, Godgers MVP, Ed Lacy Offensive ROY, Micah Hyde Defensive ROY, AJ Hawk Defensive POY, Johnny Jolly Comeback POY. I would say those are the frontrunners at the halfway point.

Rodgers would finish third in my ballot. Manning, Brees, Rodgers.

Coach of the Year: Sean Payton, Offensive Rookie: Lacy, Defensive Rookie: Kiko Alonso, Defenisve POY: Tamba Hali (with Alib a close second) Comeback Player: Phillip Rivers (yeah, no major surgery or anything, but for me he actually looks like an elite level QB again)

He's one of my least liked players in the entire league. I also give a Chiefs player (with a Pats player a close second) and Payton awards. Ugh. Something must be wrong with me.

[TroyF]

Is this supposed to be a joke? I dont feel much like analyzing all those categories, but c'mon Andy Reid is the clear cut coach of the year at this point.

I think they were jokes, but I would give the edge to Payton over Reid by a hair. I'd actually put Beli near the top of my list as well. I couldn't complain about Reid though. I'm very happy he's having success, even if I do feel it's about to come crashing down in the next few weeks.

[Danny]

Im not saying Reid will finish the year as Coach of the year, but right now I think you absolutely have to give it to him. 2-14 to an 8-0 start

[Matthean]

Reid is the easy pick. Sean Payton is a tough sell to me since the Saints were great when he was coaching a full season. The turnaround is there because he wasn't last year.

[bhlloy]

Reid is the easy pick. Sean Payton is a tough sell to me since the Saints were great when he was coaching a full season. The turnaround is there because he wasn't last year.

Doesn't that make him more of a candidate rather than less of one? I think it's Reid as well, but I don't understand how Payton being the reason for the turnaround hurts his candidacy.

[Danny]

Doesn't that make him more of a candidate rather than less of one? I think it's Reid as well, but I don't understand how Payton being the reason for the turnaround hurts his candidacy.

I agree with this. His post sounded more like an argument for Payton. It's still Reid by a large margin though at this point.

[Jas_lov]

Yeah, I think it's between Reid and McCarthy. Might be neck and neck right now. McCarthy is doing all of this with a mash unit on offense. Peyton being out last year hurts him because that was self inflicted due to his involvement in bounty gate. That's not a feel good story.

I almost forgot one award, Ted Thompson is the clear frontrunner for Executive of the Year. Old Teddy has done it again. The ultimate draft and develop GM. No GM does it better. Goes out and gets Ed Lacy in the 2nd round, Dave Bakhtiari in the 4th, Micah Hyde in the 5th. There's 3 key players on this team all rookies. The Packers don't sign FA, they just draft and develop and that's why Thompson and McCarthy are on top year after year in the NFC North.

[TroyF]

Yeah, I think it's between Reid and McCarthy. Might be neck and neck right now. McCarthy is doing all of this with a mash unit on offense. Peyton being out last year hurts him because that was self inflicted due to his involvement in bounty gate. That's not a feel good story.

I almost forgot one award, Ted Thompson is the clear frontrunner for Executive of the Year. Old Teddy has done it again. The ultimate draft and develop GM. No GM does it better. Goes out and gets Ed Lacy in the 2nd round, Dave Bakhtiari in the 4th, Micah Hyde in the 5th. There's 3 key players on this team all rookies. The Packers don't sign FA, they just draft and develop and that's why Thompson and McCarthy are on top year after year in the NFC North.

Look, I'm not here ot bash the Packers. They are freaking good. I don't buy this "mash unit" on offense. Their offensive line is ranked #1 by football outsiders at run blocking. They really haven't felt the loss of Finley or Cobb yet because those injuries happened recently and they played the Vikings tonight. They have a good offensive line and a great QB who is in his prime. You have those two things, you are going to have a successful offense.

Manning has lost one of the best LT's in the game and was without 2 other starting OL last week and all everyone wants to talk about is how the Colts found the secret to beating Denver. (I didn't just hear it in this thread, I've heard it all week) The Packers are going to be dangerous in the playoffs. All of these tough games early will set them up late. As long as Rodgers is healthy, they will be a major threat. I know they have had some bad injuries on offense, but they aren't the only team.

Everyone keeps talking about Denver, Seattle and NO. Lurking behind that group are some damned good football teams. Green Bay leads that group. The NFC playoffs could be nasty. Seattle (with Harvin), SF (with Crabtree back), Carolina (with that D and a suddenly aggressive coach), GB (Rodgers), NO (Brees). . . holy heck that is a terrific group of teams. You take who you want and I'll take the field. Rodgers at his peak makes this a dangerous team every year. You probably should hope Rodgers doesn't have to lead a comeback though :)

[bhlloy]

Yeah, not really sure why we're having a Packers love in after they just allowed 31 points to a Christian Ponder led Vikings team. Great offense but beating Minny by 13 doesn't equate to a sweep of the postseason awards or an elite team.

[mckerney]

Really can't wait until Ponder is gone.

[TRO]

Let's not forget NFL Man of the Year award, that should clearly go to the discount double check cheesehead guy. He's saving people money and maybe even saving a few lives.

[Logan]

I don't think I've ever cared for the coach of my favorite team to win CoY.

[Jas_lov]

Yeah, not really sure why we're having a Packers love in after they just allowed 31 points to a Christian Ponder led Vikings team. Great offense but beating Minny by 13 doesn't equate to a sweep of the postseason awards or an elite team.

You didn't watch the game. Once the Pack went up 41-17 with 6 minutes to go the game was over and they were just giving up yards to get the game over. And 7 of those 17 points were due to a kickoff return on the very first play. Packers are right up there with N.O, SF and Seattle as NFC contenders and they're doing it with a skeleton crew on offense.

[BillJasper]

After eight-weeks, I still think Denver and San Francisco are the best teams from each conference.

[bulletsponge]

my Vikes suck. i hope we suck enough this year to get a great pick and get a real QB

[jbergey22]

Im not saying Reid will finish the year as Coach of the year, but right now I think you absolutely have to give it to him. 2-14 to an 8-0 start

Yeah, at this point it would be impossible to give it to anyone but Reid. Taking a team won 2 games the year before and having them win their first 8 games the following year may never happen again.

[Vince, Pt. II]

...a skeleton crew on offense.

The 49ers will trade you all their WRs for your healthy ones.

[BillJasper]

The 49ers will trade you all their WRs for your healthy ones.

Rumor has it that Larry Fitzgerald might be available. If the 49ers could swing that deal, they'd be downright fucking scary. :eek:

[spleen1015]

I don't think there is anyway the Cards trade Fitz within the division.

[Lathum]

I don't get the skeleton crew on offense. Do they have guys hurt, sure they do, but they still have one of the mot dynamic receivers in the game playing every week.

What does Brady have to work with and he is still getting it done.

[Thomkal]

well somehow my beloved Cards are in contention for a playoff spot-so I don't think they will look to trade Larry until the offseason. I hope they don't trade him at all really, but salary cap may force them to. And definitely can't see him going to SF or SEA.

[miami_fan]

Wearing that "Free Hernandez" is not looking too good for Mike Pouncey.

Miami's Mike Pouncey served grand jury subpoena in Massachusetts - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131027/mike-pouncey-subpoena-grand-jury-aaron-hernandez/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp)

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The Massachusetts State Police served Miami Dolphins center Mike Pouncey with a grand jury subpoena less than an hour after the Patriots defeated the Dolphins 27-17 at Gillette Stadium on Sunday afternoon.

A source with knowledge of the matter told SI.com that the subpoena is related to the investigation into Aaron Hernandez, Pouncey's close friend and former teammate at the University of Florida. The source indicated that police are focusing in on Hernandez's potential involvement in interstate gun trafficking, which is being investigated by several agencies in multiple states -- at least Massachusetts, New York and Florida.

The extent of Pouncey's potential involvement is undetermined, but police are focusing on multiple transactions that involve him and Hernandez. "Organizationally, we do not have a comment," said Dolphins spokesman Harvey Greene. "And Mike Pouncey does not have a comment."

A grand jury subpoena does not mean Pouncey, 24, has been or will be charged with a crime. Rather, law enforcement officials regard him as a material witness who could advance their case against Hernandez. Pouncey traveled back home with the team Sunday night.

After the game, two members of the Massachusetts State Police in dark suits approached Pouncey in the hallway between the Dolphins locker room and the team bus and handed him a piece of white paper. "It's about a grand jury investigation," one official could be heard telling Pouncey. The same police official later said, "Make sure you arrive."

Pouncey appeared confused when handed the paperwork by police and said, "What's this about?" Soon Dolphins officials were scrambling around the concourse looking for answers.

Dolphins special teams coach Darren Rizzi was in the vicinity at the time and asked one of the officers if they'd spoken to Dolphins director of security Stu Weinstein. A uniformed Massachusetts State Police officer held out his right arm and attempted to shield Rizzi from hearing the conversation between Pouncey and police officials.

Rizzi later said with a perplexed look on his face, "Pouncey just got served papers."

Dawn Aponte, the Dolphins executive vice president of football administration, could be seen reading the subpoena outside the team locker room. A uniformed Massachusetts State policeman declined comment, directing any inquiries to Weinstein.

"You need to talk to Jeff Ireland or Joe Philbin," Weinstein said, referring to the Dolphins general manager and coach. Ireland and Dolphins senior vice president of operations, Bill Galante, also declined comment.

A Patriots official said owner Robert Kraft was not made aware that Massachusetts State Police would be issuing the subpoena to Pouncey. In the minutes after the game, there were five uniformed Massachusetts State Police officers and two in suits loitering about 30 yards from the Dolphins locker room and speaking with NFL Security officials.

In September, Hernandez was indicted and pleaded not guilty to six charges, including first-degree murder. The other five charges were weapons related, as police seized at least three different types of ammunition -- .22-caliber bullets, 7.62-mm. rounds and 45-caliber bullets -- at Hernandez's home in North Attleboro, Mass., and at his "flop house" in Franklin, Mass.

The increased scrutiny on Hernandez's gun activity could be an indication that the gun charges have taken an increased importance. Shortly after the first murder investigation began, the source said, signs that Hernandez was involved with a large-scale, multi-state gun running operation began to emerge.

Mike Pouncey and his twin brother, Maurkice, a Steelers center, were close to Hernandez and all three lived together for periods of time when they played at Florida. In stories that emerged after Hernandez's arrest, the Pouncey brothers were credited with keeping Hernandez out of trouble while in Gainesville.

The only tie between the Pounceys and Hernandez that's emerged since the arrest was the two brothers being photographed in a night club wearing "Free Hernandez" hats in mid-July. The photograph blew up on social media and Maurkice Pouncey later apologized, saying: "I regret that my actions appear to make light of that serious situation."

A Steelers spokesman declined all comment, including when asked if Maurkice Pouncey had been served.

[BillJasper]

The season keeps getting better and better for Miami.

[BishopMVP]

Wearing that "Free Hernandez" is not looking too good for Mike Pouncey.

Miami's Mike Pouncey served grand jury subpoena in Massachusetts - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131027/mike-pouncey-subpoena-grand-jury-aaron-hernandez/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp)
A Steelers spokesman declined all comment, including when asked if Maurkice Pouncey had been served....Steelers are in Foxboro this Sunday. :lol:

[tucker rocky]

Is it just me or does this year's NFL have by far the highest number of CRAP teams in a while.

Jaguars, Rams, Steelers, Eagles, Vikings, Bucs, Giants, Raiders.

I mean these teams have no chance unless they are facing one another.

Jaguars have no chance against any team in the NFL.
They couldn't even compete against Division III #1, Mount Union.
:lol:

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

PredictionMachine.com simulates Jacksonville Jaguars vs. Alabama (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/20869547/predictionmachinecom-simulates-jacksonville-jaguars-vs-alabama)

[tucker rocky]

PredictionMachine.com simulates Jacksonville Jaguars vs. Alabama (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/20869547/predictionmachinecom-simulates-jacksonville-jaguars-vs-alabama)

That link is from November of 2012.

[BillJasper]

PredictionMachine.com simulates Jacksonville Jaguars vs. Alabama (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/20869547/predictionmachinecom-simulates-jacksonville-jaguars-vs-alabama)

There are just too many variables to account for to ever make an accurate prediction.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

So the 2013 Jaguars are much, much worse than last year's version?

I picked it because I felt it explained the issue best, but here's the most recently version: http://http://predictionmachine.com/Winless-NFL-teams-vs-Alabama (http://predictionmachine.com/Winless-NFL-teams-vs-Alabama)

[TroyF]

There are just too many variables to account for to ever make an accurate prediction.

No, not really. There is one variable that essentially ends it all. You are talking about full grown men vs. a bunch of boys. We laugh at Blaine Gabbard today, but he was a very good college QB. Look at the Jags roster and it's filled with guys from Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida State, etc.

The Jags have the 24th ranked offense in the NFL and the 30th ranked defense. Collectively, they may be the worst team, but I can assure you they are an NFL team and if they faced Alabama, it would not be a good day to be a Crimson Tide fan. I think many of the Tide players would end up getting carted off the field. There is a BIG difference between 20 and 26 when it comes to age. Some of the bama players would stand up fine, but most would get mauled. The game would not be close.

[jbergey22]

Agree with Troy.

The QB position in the NFL is so important right now that if you dont have one of the top 20 you really have very little chance of doing anything special.

So take away the 10-12 teams w/o a NFL caliber QB and consider them at best a 7-9 win team. Now you have the QBs in that 7-20 range that their season can determine how the team performs like the Rivers, Romos, and Staffords of the world. Following that you have the top 5-6 qbs in the world who will make their teams very good every single year. Manning, Brady(even on a down year), Brees, Rodgers.

Sadly its such a QB league and only so many of them to go around. If you dont have one you are all but screwed.

Put Peyton Manning on Jacksonville and they are probably a borderline playoff team I guess it what I was trying to say in a round about way. And 4 years ago the Vikings had to bring a 40 year old in as their QB and he led them to their best season in recent memory. The talent really hasnt taken a huge step backwards it was just that Favre could bring talent out of some of the players that dont otherwise show it. Sidney Rice's name comes up at the top of my head.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Beat writer sums up why every Atlantan knows the phrase "same old Falcons" so well

Falcons may be headed for biggest flop ever | Jeff Schultz | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/jeff-schultz/2013/oct/28/falcons-may-be-headed-biggest-flop-ever/)

[Alan T]

Beat writer sums up why every Atlantan knows the phrase "same old Falcons" so well

Falcons may be headed for biggest flop ever | Jeff Schultz | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/jeff-schultz/2013/oct/28/falcons-may-be-headed-biggest-flop-ever/)


At least Georgia Tech probably will go to some worthless bowl game this year or my recreational sports watching would be very dull for a while. I'm totally done with this Falcons team this year.

You would think after the 1980s I would be used to this type of football, but they have managed to bring a whole new level of disappointment around this year's team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but they have managed to bring a whole new level of disappointment around this year's team.

But they'll have such a lovely new stadium soon :banana:

[tucker rocky]

If you're the GM of the Jaguars, how do you fix the downfalls of the team for the last 2 seasons?

The Jaguars have problems on both sides of the ball.
If the Jaguars draft a QB, the O-line should be upgraded through FA/draft.

MJD is a FA after the season, 'course they could shop him before the deadline, at best a 5th or 6th rounder.

Drafting a replacement RB has to be high up on the need list, possibly in the 3rd or middle rounds.

Defensively, the secondary is relatively young, but could use veteran leadership,
(should've kept Marcus Trufant for that).

Looking at the LB's, Paul Posluszny is the only worthwhile LB keeping.

D-Line is a total mess, can't generate any kind of pass rush, to help the secondary. Stopping the run has its moments.

I don't know who the coordinators are for the team, but they are obviously not doing their job.

If the Jaguars want to be relavant again, the GM needs to convince the owner to open up the checkbook, and spend wisely.

Just my take from a fan of another team far away.

[jbergey22]

At least Georgia Tech probably will go to some worthless bowl game this year or my recreational sports watching would be very dull for a while. I'm totally done with this Falcons team this year.

You would think after the 1980s I would be used to this type of football, but they have managed to bring a whole new level of disappointment around this year's team.

Well, you were really stung by the injury bug which is probably the primary reason for this fall. Any team would struggle losing a top 5 wr and having another top 10 wr playing at 75 percent tops. Not to mention Stephen Jackson going down on just the offensive side of the ball.

The variables in the NFL can make for a frustrating season.

[tucker rocky]

But they'll have such a lovely new stadium soon :banana:
What's wrong with the one they have? :)

[jbergey22]

If you're the GM of the Jaguars, how do you fix the downfalls of the team for the last 2 seasons?

The Jaguars have problems on both sides of the ball.
If the Jaguars draft a QB, the O-line should be upgraded through FA/draft.

MJD is a FA after the season, 'course they could shop him before the deadline, at best a 5th or 6th rounder.

Drafting a replacement RB has to be high up on the need list, possibly in the 3rd or middle rounds.

Defensively, the secondary is relatively young, but could use veteran leadership,
(should've kept Marcus Trufant for that).

Looking at the LB's, Paul Posluszny is the only worthwhile LB keeping.

D-Line is a total mess, can't generate any kind of pass rush, to help the secondary. Stopping the run has its moments.

I don't know who the coordinators are for the team, but they are obviously not doing their job.

If the Jaguars want to be relavant again, the GM needs to convince the owner to open up the checkbook, and spend wisely.

Just my take from a fan of another team far away.

Well I think you start by trying to solve the qb problem and get some youth in the backfield. I am really starting to feel bad for MJD and the beating he has taken over the years. From there you work on building a line that can stay together and be cohesive. Nothing hurts line play more than switching it up all of the time.

A lot of the warts will go away once a team fixes a few of their major issues. You may suddenly see a defense worth watching if they can start seeing an offense that can take any of the pressure off them from week to week.

[TroyF]

If you're the GM of the Jaguars, how do you fix the downfalls of the team for the last 2 seasons?

The Jaguars have problems on both sides of the ball.
If the Jaguars draft a QB, the O-line should be upgraded through FA/draft.

MJD is a FA after the season, 'course they could shop him before the deadline, at best a 5th or 6th rounder.

Drafting a replacement RB has to be high up on the need list, possibly in the 3rd or middle rounds.

Defensively, the secondary is relatively young, but could use veteran leadership,
(should've kept Marcus Trufant for that).

Looking at the LB's, Paul Posluszny is the only worthwhile LB keeping.

D-Line is a total mess, can't generate any kind of pass rush, to help the secondary. Stopping the run has its moments.

I don't know who the coordinators are for the team, but they are obviously not doing their job.

If the Jaguars want to be relavant again, the GM needs to convince the owner to open up the checkbook, and spend wisely.

Just my take from a fan of another team far away.

Where you start is simple. If there is a QB on the board you feel will be an NFL starter for 10+ years, you take him. Period. You don't take a guy you think is the best available QB left or a guy with the raw tools who looks to be a developmental guy. (as in Gabbard, Blaine) If you see a guy who has the tools, makeup and your scouts feel is going to succeed, you take him.

If not, you trade down and start loading the team with building blocks for the guy who will be your future QB. I wouldn't worry about spending a cent until I got the QB who I could count on for 5 years. (Peyton Manning is nice for the Donkies, but he doesn't exactly hit FA very often)

To me, in this league, if you don't have a capable QB, you are in a death spiral. Even competent QB play will win you games. You have one of the ten worst QB's in the league? Forget it. There are a metric ton of QB prospects coming out in the next two years. Scout the hell out of them now and figure out which one you want. Then be prepared to trade up if you have to.

Teams who will be looking for a QB this offseason:

Philadelphia
Minnesota (depending on Freeman down the stretch)
Tampa Bay
Arizona
St. Louis
Cleveland
Houston
Jacksonville

That's 8 teams and I could easily add another 5 to 7 who have QB's I don't think are going to make it as passers in this league. (Tennessee, Oakland, Jets to name a few)

[JonInMiddleGA]

What's wrong with the one they have? :)

In fairness, it sucks and has always sucked.

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Jags actually surprise me with their lack of ability. On paper, it would seem that they have quite a few great tools:

-MJD, though recovering from a serious injury, has long been one of the standout backs in the league.
-Blackmon, though suspended the first few games of the season, is incredibly talented.
-Shorts has been a very good WR though he does suffer from the dropsies occasionally.
-The defense as a whole has been pretty terrible...but my buddy who watches every game says that they aren't as bad as they look because the offense leaves them on the field for so much of games they get tired and run up on.

Clearly they need a better QB and some O-Line help, but Joeckel has had flashes that make you think he could end up being a very good lineman some day, and with Blackmon and Shorts together out there the offense almost has to improve by default. MJD is getting old and he's going to be expensive, so you probably have to look elsewhere, but RB has gone down so much in importance that you can try to plug that hole later in the draft and save the higher picks for the more important positions. Like the article about the prediction machine mentioned - the real key is going to be the Jags starting to draft useful players in the late rounds, instead of the nothing that they keep getting.

I can easily see them improve in a huge way (like, from 1-15/2-14 level to 6-10/7-9 level) with one good draft. Get a solid O Lineman, a pass rusher and a defensive back to pair with Cyprien...who knows.

[Lathum]

Anyone who thinks Alabama, or any college team, could ever hang with any NFL team knows nothing about football or sports.

[Thomkal]

Had to go look at two different boxscores to make sure I was seeing this correctly:

With about five minutes left in the third, the Seahawks have thrown for 43 yards, the Rams for 45. At least the Rams are running the ball with over 100 yards total so far, but the Seahawks have 35 rushing yards.

The World Series lack of offense disease must be catching or something.

[kingfc22]

Golden Tate is a little bitch.

[Lathum]

jesus, I would be OK if Tate and Rodgers Cromartie (i think that is who is was from Denver) concussed each other. Such a bitch move.

[TroyF]

jesus, I would be OK if Tate and Rodgers Cromartie (i think that is who is was from Denver) concussed each other. Such a bitch move.

The only thing more of a bitch move is Carrol having the nerve to walk over and go "we don't do that here" Ummm, yeah, you do. Your team is one of the most classless teams in the NFL. I love Russell Wilson and Lynch and pretty much can't stand any other player on your roster.

At least with Denver, it's a one off. I'm not saying that because I'm a fan of the team, you just don't see Denver pull that garbage. Miller is the closest thing to classless as we have now and beyond the drug testing crap, his biggest problem on the field is a sack dance.

I think the Rams are really onto something here though. Tight, tight formations. It forces the physical corners off and gives them better releases. Seattle seems to have no answer for it and this is against Kellen Clemons. Against a real QB, they would be in trouble.

It's amazing watching them on the replays though. EVERY DB just mugging the hell out of WR and never a call. It amazes me.

[Lathum]

The lack of energy from this crowd in a one score game on Monday night is pitiful.

[Lathum]

Pretty sad that the best Monday night game of the year is probably Jets - Falcons unless you count the Eagles week one game.

[cuervo72]

Run that in, Clemens.

[Lathum]

Run that in, Clemens.

Yeah. On second down why isn't he trying for the td or a least setting up a 1 yard attempt.

[kingfc22]

Come on Rams!

[BishopMVP]

It's amazing watching them on the replays though. EVERY DB just mugging the hell out of WR and never a call. It amazes me.It's the same in all sports - if you foul every play, the refs don't want to throw flags every time, so they subconsciously let you get away with more. Every single college basketball team and almost every defensive secondary should be doing this.

[cuervo72]

I like that ski cap of Sherman's.

[Simbo Klice]

Teams who will be looking for a QB this offseason:

Philadelphia
Minnesota (depending on Freeman down the stretch)
Tampa Bay
Arizona
St. Louis
Cleveland
Houston
Jacksonville

That's 8 teams and I could easily add another 5 to 7 who have QB's I don't think are going to make it as passers in this league. (Tennessee, Oakland, Jets to name a few)

As a Titans fan, I'm completely happy with Locker. He won't ever have the pinpoint accuracy, but he gives you everything else.

And if I'm Jacksonville, I'm worried that my team is still so bad that even a very good QB prospect would flounder. I'm thinking about true empty cupboard teams that drafted a QB (1-15 Colts with Jeff George, Expansion Browns and Texans with Couch and Carr). If there was a Luck-level prospect on the board, then you have to take him, but anything below that level, you want to build the roster while still having that gaping hole at QB that will keep you in high draft position. With rookie salaries now reasonable, "tanking" is a viable solution, especially when you have by far the worst roster in the league.

I always think teams starting at the very bottom should start from the lines up, and the Jags started that this year by drafting Joeckel. I'm not 100% sold on Bridgewater or any other college QB save for Jameis Winston. If I was the Jags, I would draft Clowney #1 and try to get a roster that has some level of NFL talent before I bring in my QB. They should still be bad enough to expect a top 5 pick next year, and then you get your guy.

[BishopMVP]

I always think teams starting at the very bottom should start from the lines up, and the Jags started that this year by drafting Joeckel. I'm not 100% sold on Bridgewater or any other college QB save for Jameis Winston. If I was the Jags, I would draft Clowney #1 and try to get a roster that has some level of NFL talent before I bring in my QB. They should still be bad enough to expect a top 5 pick next year, and then you get your guy.I would trade out of the top spot if i was Jacksonville. I think the strength of the next 2 QB drafts is their depth*, not 1-2 specific players (although part of that will depend on how may of Manziel/Mariota/Hundley declare), and there's a good chance you can get a potential #1 pick sliding all the way down to the 20's or you can just pick a solid QB in the 2nd/3rd if you're insistent on trying to fill the position long-term this season and not just willing to sign a solid veteran for a year or two. As funny as it would be to see Matthews and Joeckel reunited I don't know if they'd want to spend another top pick on someone who will end up being a RT, and defensively I like Barr and Nix better than Clowney.

* - I think this will be true most years going forward. Between the proliferation of youth 7v7 passing leagues, the increasing complexity of HS offenses, and the NFL's willingness to embrace more athletic QB's who don't have prototypical arm strength we're entering a Golden Age for QB's.

[MrBug708]

Not a chance Hundley declares right now. He just had 64 yards passing in his last game and is struggling. But Jacksonville has too many holes to really risk it on a QB this draft. If they can trade down, excellent. They need to built up other areas of their team first.

[BishopMVP]

Not a chance Hundley declares right now. He just had 64 yards passing in his last game and is struggling. But Jacksonville has too many holes to really risk it on a QB this draft. If they can trade down, excellent. They need to built up other areas of their team first.I hadn't seen how badly he struggled against Oregon. I do agree he shouldn't and probably won't right now, but I've seen QB's get helium off fewer games than Hundley has left. Blaine Gabbert's the most obvious example, but RG3 and Cam Newton both went from potential 1st-round pick to top 3 lock in like 6 weeks. Even Teddy Bridgewater is really so highly regarded and has people completely ignoring his schedule strength based off one game (the Sugar Bowl) last year - if he struggles a lot in his bowl game this year I don't even think it's off the table he comes back for another year.

Hundley/Mariota, and less likely one of Manziel/Bridgewater going back to school would be perfect for Jacksonville - pick a non-QB this draft to bolster the O-line or D that isn't really all that bad, and have multiple potential franchise QB's looming in 2015 with those guys, Jameis, likely Kevin Hogan, maybe a guy like Braxton Miller, Sean Mannion, even a Devin Gardner if any of them makes a leap, Bryce Petty if you think he's more than a system QB.

[bhlloy]

Hey, I don't really understand the Mariota love either right now and think he absolutely needs to stay in school to work on his passing. Video game numbers but how much of that is playing in the perfect offense and short passes being taken to the house by incredibly talented receivers. If he comes out this year, he'd better sit for at least a season.

[RainMaker]

Draft a QB like Garoppolo later on who is better than anyone they're listing as top QBs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Had to chuckle at these comments from Tony G. He did the exact same thing in KC when he wanted to be traded. Up front, he's the team guy who says all the right things to make it seem like he really doesn't want to leave. Behind closed doors, he's checking flight times while sitting next to the phone waiting to hear from his agent. I don't know where he's going, but these comments make me think he's on the move assuming the Falcons feel the deal is good enough.

Tony Gonzalez of Atlanta Falcons understands rumors, but not asking for trade - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9896658/tony-gonzalez-atlanta-falcons-understands-rumors-not-asking-trade)

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Meanwhile Sean McGrath keeps googling his name to see if anyone cares.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Meanwhile Sean McGrath keeps googling his name to see if anyone cares.

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/220/files/2013/10/77316041.jpg

[Vince, Pt. II]

Rumors on the radio today that Seattle and San Francisco are in a "bidding war" for Jared Allen.

I find it hard to believe based on the Niners cap situation, but it's hard not to get excited about adding Jared Allen to their pass rush.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Deadline just passed and Glazer says Allen isn't going anywhere.

[ISiddiqui]

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/220/files/2013/10/77316041.jpg

So... he plays for the Red Sox?

[BishopMVP]

Did Terrelle Pryor break QBR? Pittsburgh Steelers vs. Oakland Raiders - Box Score - October 27, 2013 - ESPN (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331027013)

10/19 88 4.6 0 2 2-6 96.2 25.7

I don't care if he ran for 5 90+ yard TD's, that should be the death of QBR.

[fantom1979]

How the hell do you throw two picks and have a QBR of 96. Isn't 100 perfect? I can understand having a decent QBR thanks to his big TD run, but did he do anything else the rest of the game?

Peyton Manning (week 4): 28/34, 327 yards, 4td, 0int, 95.9 QBR
Terrell Pryor (week 8): 10/19, 88 yards, 0td, 2int, 106 rushing, 1td rushing, 96.2 QBR

[Vince, Pt. II]

Perfect is 156.3 or something.

[ISiddiqui]

Dude, the guy had 106 yards rushing. To not account for that would be ridiculous & the reason why the old QB Rating was ignored by a lot of folks.

[fantom1979]

Brees completed 76% of his passes and threw for 5 touchdowns this week and had a QBR of 70

[fantom1979]

Perfect is 156.3 or something.

QBR, not quarterback rating. They are different.

[fantom1979]

Dude, the guy had 106 yards rushing. To not account for that would be ridiculous & the reason why the old QB Rating was ignored by a lot of folks.

93 yards of it were on the first play of the game. He went 10/19 for 88 yards with two picks throwing and 8 for 13 rushing the rest of the game. If it wasn't for that one play, his QBR should have been around zero. I understand he should get points for that, but ESPN's rating of 96 says that he had an almost perfect day.

[BishopMVP]

93 yards of it were on the first play of the game. He went 10/19 for 88 yards with two picks throwing and 8 for 13 rushing the rest of the game. If it wasn't for that one play, his QBR should have been around zero. I understand he should get points for that, but ESPN's rating of 96 says that he had an almost perfect day.This. Short of having a 90 point bonus for a 90+ yard TD run I can't figure out any way for that rating to come out correctly. Even if all his completions were 1 yard passes on 4th and 1 in the last 2 minutes of a close game.

[Sun Tzu]

Meanwhile, Russell Wilson had an absolutely awful game last night, and his Passer Rating was 117.

Hate on Passer Rating. Hate on QBR.

"Keep fuckin' that chicken."

[BillJasper]

Total QBR is a joke.

[Julio Riddols]

My ratings system. PassYPA - INT% + RushYPA - Sack% + TD%.
For QB's with less than 3 rush attempts per game, their average is zeroed out. This system measures composite performance of QB+pass protection.

I'm going with QB's with a minimum of 100 attempts.

Here's how it shakes out by my system:

Manning: 8.8-1.8+0.0-3.2+8.7 = 12.5
Locker: 6.9-0.7+7.1-7.3+5.3 = 11.3
Rodgers: 8.8-1.6+3.8-6.4+6.0 = 10.6
Luck: 7.0-1.3+6.5-6.3+4.5 = 10.4
Vick: 8.6-2.1+9.1-9.6+3.5 = 09.5
Kaepernick: 8.0-2.5+6.0-7.0+4.5 = 09.0
Dalton: 8.1-2.5+2.8-5.4+5.7 = 08.7
Rivers: 8.6-2.0+0.0-4.2+6.0 = 08.4
Griffin: 7.0-3.0+5.6-5.0+3.4 = 08.0
Stafford: 7.7-1.8+0.0-2.9+4.7 = 07.7
Brees: 8.5-1.8+0.0-6.2+7.0 = 07.5
Romo: 7.5-1.7+0.0-5.1+6.1 = 06.8
Newton: 7.7-2.5+4.6-9.4+5.9 = 06.3
Wilson: 7.9-2.0+5.6-11.6+6.3= 06.2
A.Smith: 6.3-1.4+5.3-7.7+3.1 = 05.6
Ryan: 7.3-2.3+0.0-4.1+4.6 = 05.5
Cutler: 7.4-3.1+0.0-4.3+5.3 = 05.3
Bradford: 6.4-1.5+0.0-5.4+5.3 = 04.8
Manuel: 6.6-2.0+3.6-8.0+3.3 = 03.5
Hoyer*: 6.4-3.1+0.0-5.9+5.2 = 02.6
Glennon: 5.5-1.7+0.0-5.2+3.3 = 01.9
Pryor: 7.3-4.5+7.4-12.3+3.2= 01.1
Tannehill: 6.8-3.4+3.9-10.9+4.2= 00.6
G.Smith: 7.4-5.1+5.1-10.0+3.2= 00.6
Ponder: 6.9-4.1+5.7-9.7+1.7 = 00.5
Schaub: 6.7-3.9+0.0-6.0+3.4 = 00.2
Flacco: 7.1-3.0+0.0-6.9+3.0 = 00.2
Brady: 5.9-2.0+0.0-7.0+2.9 = -00.2
E.Manning: 7.1-4.9+0.0-5.8+3.3 = -00.3
Henne: 6.7-2.3+0.0-6.8+1.4 = -01.0
Roethlisbe: 7.4-2.7+0.0-9.1+3.1 = -01.3
Freeman: 5.2-3.2+0.0-5.2+1.4 = -01.8
Palmer: 6.7-4.9+0.0-7.5+3.5 = -02.2
Weeden: 5.9-3.1+0.0-9.7+2.6 = -04.3
Gabbert**: 5.6-8.1+3.6-12.2+1.2= -09.9

*= only 96 attempts
**=only 86 attempts

[Vince, Pt. II]

Jake Locker as the #2 QB in the NFL is not passing the smell test for me.

[Julio Riddols]

Jake Locker as the #2 QB in the NFL is not passing the smell test for me.

He has been that teams entire offense, essentially. He doesn't turn it over, he runs better than most QB's, and if he had a run game of any kind and maybe some good receivers to throw to, he might get to show just how good he is. I do believe that this system is better with more data, however. It'll look better when the minimum is 300 attempts. You can also look at a guys history using the same numbers and see the clear anomalies, like Brady being below zero. You can safely assume some extenuating circumstances have contributed to his drop.. But he really has been bad this year.

I think Locker is a hell of a QB based on what he is working with.

Other than a guy out of place here and there with the help of low sample size, I think this system tends to place QB's about where they should be. It has a good rate of correlation to a teams success as well. I think maybe I need to give the pocket passers a minimum of 3.0 for their rushing stat because I think otherwise this system favors scramblers too much. That will also punish scramblers like Dalton, who is actually averaging only 2.8 per rush this year.

Edit: a couple case studies.

Kordell Stewart in 1997 put up an 8.9 and the Steelers went 11-5.
1998 was a 2.4, which is pretty bad for a running QB. Steelers finished 7-9.
he struggled to keep the job for a couple years, then in 2001 returned to near 97 form, putting up a 7.1. Steelers went 13-3.
His career ended up a semi respectable 4.4 with a career 48-34 record. Not bad.

Trent Dilfer was a career -1.7 (1.3 with the added 3.0).
The year he went 7-1 as a starter and the Ravens won the title, he was a -2.2 (0.8). The extreme outlier best defense in league history looks even better when you consider that.

Brees is a career 6.4 (9.4), but it took him putting up a 9.5 (12.5) to get that porous defense to a title. 9.5 is insane for a pocket passer.
Brady in 07 put up a 12.1 (15.1), which is what Manning 12.5 (15.5) is doing this year.

Joe Montana is a career 4.5 (7.5 using this system with the 3 yard minimum), and Manning is a 10.7, so obviously this will need to be weighted for era as well.

As I calculate more players I am tweaking the formula, but I think the numbers used in this equation are better indicators of a players performance as far as his value to the team on a per play basis goes.

[Chief Rum]

I guess completion % is partially covered as part of the PassYPYA stat? Since if you're inaccurate, you get 0 yards, so you get a 0 for that pass attempt in your average. I was looking if there should be a direct use of pass completion percentage (although not all passes are the same).

[Lathum]

Here's how it shakes out by my system:

Manning: 8.8-1.8+0.0-3.2+8.7 = 12.5
Locker: 6.9-0.7+7.1-7.3+5.3 = 11.3
Rodgers: 8.8-1.6+3.8-6.4+6.0 = 10.6
Luck: 7.0-1.3+6.5-6.3+4.5 = 10.4
Vick: 8.6-2.1+9.1-9.6+3.5 = 09.5
Kaepernick: 8.0-2.5+6.0-7.0+4.5 = 09.0
Dalton: 8.1-2.5+2.8-5.4+5.7 = 08.7
Rivers: 8.6-2.0+0.0-4.2+6.0 = 08.4
Griffin: 7.0-3.0+5.6-5.0+3.4 = 08.0
Stafford: 7.7-1.8+0.0-2.9+4.7 = 07.7
Brees: 8.5-1.8+0.0-6.2+7.0 = 07.5
Romo: 7.5-1.7+0.0-5.1+6.1 = 06.8
Newton: 7.7-2.5+4.6-9.4+5.9 = 06.3
Wilson: 7.9-2.0+5.6-11.6+6.3= 06.2
A.Smith: 6.3-1.4+5.3-7.7+3.1 = 05.6
Ryan: 7.3-2.3+0.0-4.1+4.6 = 05.5
Cutler: 7.4-3.1+0.0-4.3+5.3 = 05.3
Bradford: 6.4-1.5+0.0-5.4+5.3 = 04.8
Manuel: 6.6-2.0+3.6-8.0+3.3 = 03.5
Hoyer*: 6.4-3.1+0.0-5.9+5.2 = 02.6
Glennon: 5.5-1.7+0.0-5.2+3.3 = 01.9
Pryor: 7.3-4.5+7.4-12.3+3.2= 01.1
Tannehill: 6.8-3.4+3.9-10.9+4.2= 00.6
G.Smith: 7.4-5.1+5.1-10.0+3.2= 00.6
Ponder: 6.9-4.1+5.7-9.7+1.7 = 00.5
Schaub: 6.7-3.9+0.0-6.0+3.4 = 00.2
Flacco: 7.1-3.0+0.0-6.9+3.0 = 00.2
Brady: 5.9-2.0+0.0-7.0+2.9 = -00.2 - Does not compute
E.Manning: 7.1-4.9+0.0-5.8+3.3 = -00.3
Henne: 6.7-2.3+0.0-6.8+1.4 = -01.0
Roethlisbe: 7.4-2.7+0.0-9.1+3.1 = -01.3
Freeman: 5.2-3.2+0.0-5.2+1.4 = -01.8
Palmer: 6.7-4.9+0.0-7.5+3.5 = -02.2
Weeden: 5.9-3.1+0.0-9.7+2.6 = -04.3
Gabbert**: 5.6-8.1+3.6-12.2+1.2= -09.9


Sorry, but any system that puts Brady below the likes of Pomnder, Geno, Tannehill, Schaub, Glennon, etc... is seriously flawed.

[cuervo72]

Well, that's a high collective bar there.

This season though...he's not been good. Not by standard QB rating, or the goofy ESPN rating, or JR's rating. He doesn't run, he's getting sacked fairly often, he hasn't been accurate, and his yard/attempt is low (seems to be getting a boost from penalties on ESPN's rating though!). Not all his fault, but I doubt his teammates are completely to blame.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I'd bet the hand injury is a large part of it.

[QuikSand]

My ratings system. PassYPA - INT% + RushYPA - Sack% + TD%.
For QB's with less than 3 rush attempts per game, their average is zeroed out. This system measures composite performance of QB+pass protection.


I think this is too harsh on the non-running QB.

Stud QB who throws for 10 yards per attempt gets a +5 over a stiff QB who throws for 5 yards per attempt.

Mediocre QB who takes the ball 4 times a game for 20 yards gets the same +5 advantage over a QB who does so 2 times for 10 yards?

Way, way too harsh.

[QuikSand]

If you really want to introduce rushing at your scale (where you start with YPA as a base), then maybe:

-only consider rushing that nets out better than an "average" rush (like 4ypc)

-cut back the weighting - 1 more YPC rushing is not worth 1 more YPA passing

-weight more for guys who rush more

How about:

= (YPC - 4.0) * Rushes Per Game / 15

So, you'd get (per game stats):

10 carries for 80 yards = pretty big deal rushing threat = +4.0
5 carries for 40 yards = limited but effective = +2.0
5 carries for 25 yards = modest rushing threat = +0.1
<4 yards per carry or lower impact than above = 0 (not negative)

I know it's not as simple, but it gets a lot closer to picking up actual added value, I think. *shurg*

[Carman Bulldog]

Yeah, I'd say there is a major flaw with the rushing average. I know what you are going for but the small amount of rush attempts should not compare to the amount of pass attempts.

For example, in 20 plays, let's compare a pocket quarterback to a mobile one. Would you rather have a QB who in 20 passes nets 8 yards per attempt, essentially giving you 160 yards in 20 plays?

Or would you rather have a QB who runs 20% of the time? All other things being equal, he's only giving you 128 yards in the air. Even a QB who gets you 6.0 yards per the four rush attempts, is still coming up short at 152 yards.

Essentially with your formula though, one QB is being given 8.0 points while the other (who is putting up less yards per total play) is being given 14.0 points, all other things being equal.

I know what you are thinking, that it would not be fair to compare the 20 pass plays to only 16 pass plays. But unfortunately, those plays have to come from somewhere. In my experience, teams with rushing QB's typically end up higher than the league average for rush attempts, leading me to conclude that these rushes typically come at the expense of passes. Even if this was not the case, and they were to come at the expense of running back carries, you would still need to compare that number to the overall average of the team RB yards per attempt, as someone mentioned.

Essentially, for a starting point, I think you are better off to combine rush yards and pass yards and divide that by total pass and rush attempts. Obviously, this does not take into account kneel downs, which hurt winning quarterbacks. The best thing I can think of would be to essentially credit two kneel downs per win, in both rush yards and attempts. Therefore Rush Yards + (Wins*2) and Rush Attempts - (Wins*2). This should somewhat offset, or at least balance out the kneeldowns.

Old Formula...
PassYPA - INT% + RushYPA - Sack% + TD%

New Formula...
[Pass Yds + Rush Yds + (Wins*2)] / [Pass Att + Rush Att - (Wins*2)] +TD% - INT% - Sack %

I haven't tested it at all yet so I have no idea what kind of figure you would get, and I may be totally off here.

[BillJasper]

There's really only one stat I judge QB's by: wins and losses.

The only question that matters is: would a team be better or worse without their starting QB?

The Patriots are 6-2 and there's no way they're a better team without Tom Brady. Even an injured Tom Brady. Since the QB is the center of everything a team does, wins need to be calculated into any "QB rating".

I know we all have an itch to quantify things statistically. But I simply think it's impossible to quantify the QB position through pure statistics.

[ISiddiqui]

How exactly would you calculate whether a team would be "better or worse" without their starting QB? I mean the top 5-10 QBs everyone knows are good, but what about under that?

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm prefacing this with - I'm thinking out loud here. Probably more than a few holes in this.

Why not weight the rushing YPC like so:

( QB Rushing YPC * ( QB Rushing Yards / Team Rushing Yards ) ).

It'll effectively give almost no rushing points to pure pocket passers, but also cut heavily into the too-high rushing average points.

Basically..

( Passing YPA + TD% - INT% ) + ( ( Rushing YPA * ( Rushing Yards / Team Rushing Yards ) ) -- I'm also doing away with sacks here.

[BillJasper]

How exactly would you calculate whether a team would be "better or worse" without their starting QB? I mean the top 5-10 QBs everyone knows are good, but what about under that?

That kind of falls under the heading of something you can't quantify with statistics. :p

[cartman]

How exactly would you calculate whether a team would be "better or worse" without their starting QB? I mean the top 5-10 QBs everyone knows are good, but what about under that?

That kind of falls under the heading of something you can't quantify with statistics. :p

If InjuredStartingQuarterback='Drew Blesdoe' then replacementQB = 'guy that puts up video game like numbers'

see: Tom Brady, Tony Romo

[BillJasper]

I'm prefacing this with - I'm thinking out loud here. Probably more than a few holes in this.

Why not weight the rushing YPC like so:

( QB Rushing YPC * ( QB Rushing Yards / Team Rushing Yards ) ).

It'll effectively give almost no rushing points to pure pocket passers, but also cut heavily into the too-high rushing average points.

Basically..

( Passing YPA + TD% - INT% ) + ( ( Rushing YPA * ( Rushing Yards / Team Rushing Yards ) ) -- I'm also doing away with sacks here.

But you have to factor sacks in somewhere since they don't count against either rushing totals or YPA? I think that you'd also need to factor in percentage of throws that go for a 1st down?

[BillJasper]

Wouldn't you also need to weight any scale for teams that throw the ball more than others? Peyton Manning's and Phillip Rivers' 70 percent completion ratio shouldn't be counted equally. Manning gets almost no boost over Rivers because they have roughly equal YPA.

[Carman Bulldog]

I've come to the conclusion that we leave this to the gents at Football Outsiders, Advanced NFL Stats and Pro Football Focus.

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't like factoring in sacks into any QB rating system - it's very difficult to differentiate between sacks that are the QB's fault vs sacks that are the fault of the O-Line/etc.

[larrymcg421]

Even % of throws that go for a first down is misleading because a 9 yard pass on 1st and 10 is much more valuable than a 9 yard pass on 3rd and 10, but they'd be counted equally.

You really need to compare among down and distance situations. For example:

QB A has a strong running game helping him out, so he has more 2nd and short, 3rd and short, and fewer 3rd and long situations.

QB B has a weak running game and has more 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations.

If these two QB's end up with similar stats, then QB B is almost certainly better.

That's why I like Football Outsiders DYAR. If you look at the past rankings, QB's with poor running games often fare better than they do in other measures. Marino is a great example. In 1989 (one of the worst seasons of his career), he only put up a 76.9 QB rating and threw 22 INT's against only 24 TD's. Yet he is 6th in DYAR because he faced difficult situations far more frequently than the average QB. In 1997 when he only had an 80.7 QB rating, he was #1 in DYAR.

[BillJasper]

Maybe you just need to come up with a general rating that measures:

Total Yardage (Pass+Rush)

Total Negative Plays (Interceptions+Fumbles Lost+Sacks)

Total TD's (Pass + Rush)

Team Wins

The trick would be how to weight their importance.

[larrymcg421]

Maybe you just need to come up with a general rating that measures:

Total Yardage (Pass+Rush)

Total Negative Plays (Interceptions+Fumbles Lost+Sacks)

Total TD's (Pass + Rush)

Team Wins

The trick would be how to weight their importance.

If I was trying to come up with a rating system that was worse than the current QB Rating, then my first step would be to include Team Wins as a component.

[BillJasper]

If I was trying to come up with a rating system that was worse than the current QB Rating, then my first step would be to include Team Wins as a component.

I don't think so. These guys are drafted highly and paid huge amounts of money based on club's thinking they are the most important piece of the puzzle.

I think wins would be an important piece in measuring the effectiveness of a QB.

Denver improved dramatically in the win column when they went from Tebow to Manning. Indianapolis was dramatically worse when they went from Manning to Painter, then got dramatically better going from Painter to Luck.

Like any statistic, it can fool you sometimes. But a team's overall success is usually (not always) directly related to the QB.

[Julio Riddols]

If you really want to introduce rushing at your scale (where you start with YPA as a base), then maybe:

-only consider rushing that nets out better than an "average" rush (like 4ypc)

-cut back the weighting - 1 more YPC rushing is not worth 1 more YPA passing

-weight more for guys who rush more

How about:

= (YPC - 4.0) * Rushes Per Game / 15

So, you'd get (per game stats):

10 carries for 80 yards = pretty big deal rushing threat = +4.0
5 carries for 40 yards = limited but effective = +2.0
5 carries for 25 yards = modest rushing threat = +0.1
<4 yards per carry or lower impact than above = 0 (not negative)

I know it's not as simple, but it gets a lot closer to picking up actual added value, I think. *shurg*

Thats the direction I was heading with it.. Something in that realm to give real threats a lot more value than guys who only carry it a couple times a game and still average 6 or 7 a carry.

The thought process on including running is basically assuming that the other option on that play was an incomplete pass, which is always worth less than a gain of even one yard.. But it does make sense to weigh it so that QB's who make a big difference with their legs are the ones that get the real boost.

Lets see what happens when I re-run the numbers using the QS running formula and stats from last season. QB's with more than 300 pass attempts only. I also divided the final rushing bonus by 4 because otherwise Cam Newton got a bonus of more than 15.

Here's the new revised formula: (PassYPA+TD%)-(Sack%+INT%)
If a QB averages over 4 per carry rushing, I run this formula in addition:
(Rushatt/15)*(RushYPA-4.0) / 4.

Based on the numbers, the average qualifying QB in 2012 is a 3.5.

2012 (29 qualifiers)

Griffin: 10.4 (5.6 bonus for rushing) --> Team went 10-6 with the 22nd ranked scoring defense. (28th in yards)
Manning: 8.9 (Pocket passer) --> Team went 13-3 with no. 4 scoring defense. (2nd in yards)
Brees: 7.6 (Pocket Passer) --> Team went 7-9 with the 31st scoring defense in the league. (32nd in yards)
Brady: 7.5 (Pocket Passer) --> Team went 12-4 with 9th ranked scoring defense. (25th in yards)
Ryan: 6.3 (0.1 bonus for rushing) --> Team went 13-3 with 5th ranked scoring defense. (24th in yards)
Newton: 6.3 (3.8 bonus for rushing) --> Team went 7-9 with 18th ranked scoring defense. (10th in yards)
Wilson: 6.2 (1.9 bonus for rushing) --> Team went 11-5 with the top scoring defense. (4th in yards)
E.Manning:6.1 (Pocket passer) --> Went 9-7 with the 12th ranked scoring defense. (31st in yards)
Rodgers: 5.7 (0.7 bonus for rushing) --> Went 11-5 with the 11th ranked scoring defense. (11th in yards as well)
Roethlisberger: 5.0 (Pocket passer) --> Went 8-8 with the 6th scoring defense. (1st in yards) 5 losses by 3 points.
Freeman: 4.6 (Pocket passer) --> Went 7-9 with the 23rd ranked scoring defense. (29th in yards)
Schaub: 4.5 (Pocket passer) --> Went 12-4 with the 9th scoring defense. (7th in yards)
Palmer: 4.1 (Pocket passer) --> Went 4-12 with the 28th ranked scoring defense. (18th in yards)
Romo: 3.7 (Pocket Passer) --> Went 8-8 with the 24th ranked scoring defense. (19th in yards)
Stafford: 3.5 (Pocket passer) --> Went 4-12 with the 27th ranked scoring defense. (13th in yards)
Flacco: 3.2 (Pocket passer) --> Went 10-6 with the 12th ranked scoring defense. (17th in yards)
Fitzptrck:2.8 (0.1 bonus for rushing) --> Went 6-10 with the 26th ranked scoring defense. (22nd in yards)
Bradford: 2.1 (Pocket passer) --> Went 7-8-1 with the 14th ranked scoring defense. (14th in yards)
Luck: 1.8 (0.1 bonus for rushing) --> Went 11-5 with the 21st ranked scoring defense. (26th in yards) 6 wins by 4 or less against maybe the weakest schedule in the league.
Vick: 1.3 (1.4 bonus for rushing) --> Went 4-12 with the 29th ranked scoring defense. (15th in yards)
Locker: 1.3 (2.1 bonus for rushing) --> Went 6-10 with the 32nd ranked scoring defense. (27th in yards)
Ponder: 1.3 (0.2 bonus for rushing) --> Went 10-6 with the 14th ranked scoring defense. (16th in yards) Adrian Peterson
Dalton: 1.0 (Pocket passer) --> Went 10-6 with the 8th ranked scoring defense. (6th in yards)
Weeden: 0.8 (Pocket passer) --> Went 5-11 with the 19th ranked scoring defense. (23rd in yards)
Rivers: 0.4 (Pocket passer) --> Went 7-9 with the 16th ranked scoring defense. (9th in yards)
Cutler: 0.1 (Pocket passer) --> Went 10-6 with the 3rd ranked scoring defense. (5th in yards)
Tannehill:0.1 (0.2 bonus for rushing) --> Went 7-9 with the 7th ranked scoring defense. (21st in yards)
Henne: -1.5 (Pocket passer) --> Went 2-14 with the 28th ranked scoring defense. (30th in yards)
Sanchez: -1.7 (Pocket passer) --> Went 6-10 with the 20th ranked scoring defense. (8th in yards)

I think it looks pretty solid. Bad QB's with good defenses can make the playoffs, but usually don't go far. Great QB and bad defense is usually the same. They can get there, but winning in the post season will be tough for them. Flacco was average but had an above average defense and got incredibly hot in the playoffs. Prior to the playoffs beginning, most people thought Atlanta and Denver were two of the 3 most likely super bowl contenders, and they have the two best records here. San Fran didn't have any qualifying QB's, but both guys they had were great when they were in and their defense was 2nd in scoring and 3rd in yards.

The most interesting ones are Cam Newton and the Panthers and Christian Ponder and the Vikings. I think the Panthers can be explained by 4 close losses (within 4 points or in decided in overtime) and they kind of came together defensively toward the end of the year. The most likely explanation for Ponder and the Vikes is Adrian Peterson. He went on a tear the second half of the season.

[QuikSand]

How about:

= (YPC - 4.0) * Rushes Per Game / 15

So, you'd get (per game stats):

10 carries for 80 yards = pretty big deal rushing threat = +4.0
5 carries for 40 yards = limited but effective = +2.0
5 carries for 25 yards = modest rushing threat = +0.1
<4 yards per carry or lower impact than above = 0 (not negative)

Lets see what happens when I re-run the numbers using the QS running formula and stats from last season. QB's with more than 300 pass attempts only. I also divided the final rushing bonus by 4 because otherwise Cam Newton got a bonus of more than 15.

Here's the new revised formula: (PassYPA+TD%)-(Sack%+INT%)
If a QB averages over 4 per carry rushing, I run this formula in addition:
(Rushatt/15)*(RushYPA-4.0) / 4.

Hmm, are we out of sync on whether to use per-game stats or season total stats?

I see online (http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/profile) last year's stats for Cam newton looking like this:

127 741 5.8

Under my calculations, I pencil that in as:

(~5.8 - 4.0) * (~8 / 15) = ~1.0

(Your value of 16 must be arising from you looking per season, and me looking per game)

Now, if you're not convinced that this is enough of a bonus for a rushing threat like Newton (and I might be), then I think the right order of magnitude might be to adjust my arbitrary denominator of 10 to something like 10, which would bump Newton's adjustment up to 1.5 or so.

I don't like it at 3.8 for that season. 5.8 yards per carry is fine, but it's not night and day different from what they get from handing the ball off to their reasonably capable backfield -- the delta there in yards might be +100, but it certainly isn't a ton more than that.

[BishopMVP]

I do think there is something to be said for a running QB increasing the average YPC of the RB's around him, particularly as the read-option remains a threat. The system you're pushing values QB's more for breaking off fairly infrequent long scramble runs while punishing them for more frequent, but consistently successful planned ones. A 1 yard sneak on 4th and goal at the 1 is a great play, which is why something like DYAR/DVOA that measures play by play is always going to be better than anything that measures QB's by simple season statistics. I do also think though that fumbles lost need to be included with interceptions.

[Julio Riddols]

The expected finishes based on QB ranking + scoring defense ranking. Lower scores are better. Actual finish shown. Teams in green are teams that would make the playoffs most years with average luck. Orange are teams that were middle of the pack needing a good bounce or two, red teams have little to no chance at postseason action. I'm going to see how well this holds up in other seasons to test for further accuracy.

2012 (out of 29 qualifying QB's)

Manning: 6 -> 13-3
Wilson: 8 -> 11-5
Ryan: 10 -> 13-3
Brady: 13 -> 12-4
Roethlisberger: 16 -> 8-8
Rodgers: 20 -> 11-5
E, Manning: 20 -> 9-7
Schaub: 21 -> 12-4
Griffin: 23 -> 10-6
Newton: 24 -> 7-9
Flacco: 28 -> 10-6
Cutler: 29 -> 10-6
Dalton: 31 -> 10-6
Bradford: 32 -> 7-8-1
Brees: 34 -> 7-9
Freeman: 34 -> 7-9
Tannehill: 34 -> 7-9
Ponder: 36 -> 10-6
Romo: 38 -> 8-8
Luck: 40 -> 11-5
Rivers: 41 -> 7-9
Palmer: 41 -> 4-12
Stafford: 42 -> 4-12
Weeden: 43 -> 5-11
Vick: 49 -> 4-12
Sanchez: 49 -> 6-10
Locker: 53 -> 6-10
Henne: 56 -> 2-14

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, QS - I was going by season numbers based on that. I think Newton does deserve the big bump though, because he was significantly better value on his rushes than his RB's were. I think what I need to do now is factor in fumble%/2 for the final touch, but that would take a lot more number crunching. Newton did fumble 10 times and should be penalized for that.

When I get time I'm going to go through and do about 4 or 5 seasons worth of this and see how things look with and without fumbles factored in. I want to see which one correlates better with team success.

Edit: I think the formula for fumbles should be fumbles/(rushes+sacks), then you take that percentage and divide by 20. (20 rather than 2 because then you don't have to move the decimal point yourself to arrive at the final number.) so a guy who fumbles 15 times in 120 total carries/sacks would see a hit of 0.6. This way the big offenders like 2012 Rivers see a significant hit (1.0 via the new calculation) but fumbles aren't over weighted. His 2012 season would fall in at -0.6.

I was going over the 2001 season as one of my test seasons, and I must say 2001 was a bad year for passing.

EDIT 2: Here's how 2001 looks in full with the fumble calculation added in. How about Jim Miller?


1. J.Garcia: 6.0 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. 5.6 -->10
B.Favre: 7.0 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -01.6 fumbles. 5.4 --> 7
R.Gannon: 5.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.7 fumbles. 4.9 --> 22
D.McNabb: 2.0 Passing, 2.6 rushing, -00.3 fumbles. 4.3 --> 6
5. K.Warner: 4.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.7 fumbles. 4.2 --> 12
S.McNair: 2.0 Passing, 1.9 rushing, -00.2 fumbles. 3.7 --> 31
K.Stewart: 1.5 Passing, 2.5 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. 3.6 --> 10
Jim Miller: 3.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.9 fumbles. 3.0 --> 9
P.Manning: 3.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.5 fumbles. 2.7 --> 40
10. J.Plummer: 2.5 Passing, 0.4 rushing, -00.6 fumbles. 2.3 --> 32
J.Fiedler: 1.8 Passing, 0.5 rushing, -00.3 fumbles. 2.0 --> 22
A.VanPelt 2.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -01.0 fumbles. 1.6 --> 41
V.Tstavrde 2.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -01.2 fumbles. 1.3 --> 25
D.Flutie 1.4 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. 1.0 --> 30
15. D.Culpepper:-1.0 Passing, 2.2 rushing, -00.8 fumbles. 0.4 --> 41
A.Brooks -0.5 Passing, 0.7 rushing, -00.5 fumbles. -0.3 --> 43
K.Collins: 1.1 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -01.5 fumbles. -0.4 --> 34
E.Grbac 0.1 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.9 fumbles. -0.8 --> 22
B.Griese: -0.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. -1.0 --> 40
20. B.Johnson: -0.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.2 fumbles. -1.1 --> 28
T.Brady: -0.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.8 fumbles. -1.4 --> 27
T.Green -1.0 Passing, 0.3 rushing, -00.7 fumbles. -1.4 --> 45
J.Kitna: -0.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -01.3 fumbles. -1.6 --> 37
C.Weinke -0.7 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.9 fumbles. -1.6 --> 52
25. T.Banks -0.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.7 fumbles. -1.6 --> 38
M.Brunell: -2.5 Passing, 1.2 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. -1.7 --> 36
C.Chandler: -1.7 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.6 fumbles. -2.3 --> 51
C.Batch: -1.8 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.7 fumbles. -2.5 --> 58
T.Couch -4.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.5 fumbles. -4.8 --> 44
30. M.Hasselbeck -4.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -00.4 fumbles. -5.0 --> 48

Playoff expectations:

Philly: 6 (11-5)
Green Bay: 7 (12-4)
Chicago: 9 (13-3)
San Fran: 10 (12-4)
Pittsburgh: 10 (13-3)
St. Louis: 12 (14-2)
Miami: 22 (11-5)
Baltimore: 22 (10-6)
Oakland: 22 (10-6)
NYJets: 25 (10-6)
New England: 27 (11-5)
Tampa Bay: 29 (9-7)
San Diego: 30 (5-11)
Tennessee: 31 (7-9)
Arizona: 32 (7-9)
NYGiants: 34 (7-9)
Jax: 36 (6-10)
Cincinnati: 37 (6-10)
Washington: 38 (8-8)
Indy: 40 (6-10)
Denver: 40 (8-8)
Buffalo: 41 (3-13)
Minnesota: 41 (5-11)
New Orleans: 43 (7-9)
Cleveland: 44 (7-9)
Kansas City: 45 (6-10)
Seattle: 48 (9-7) <-- Impressive job squeezing wins out of this. 5 of them by 3 points.
Atlanta: 51 (7-9)
Carolina: 52 (1-15)
Detroit: 58 (2-14)

Looking at the stats from that Falcons season, I have no idea how they wrangled 7 wins (and could have had 2 more which both ended in OT losses to Frisco) with that team. They were outscored 291-377, they gave up a half point more per drive to their opponents, they were only +2 in turnovers..

They did beat 1-15 Carolina 2 times. They beat the 5-11 Cowboys and the 3-13 Bills.. But they also beat Green Bay AT Green Bay.. I guess it was one of those sunshine on a dogs ass moments.

EDIT 3: 2007 (Only 23 qualifiers this season. Lots of injuries at QB and lots of bad QB play.)

1. T.Brady 12.1 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.5 fumbles. 11.6 --> 5
P.Manning 7.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.7 fumbles. 6.5 --> 3
B.Favre 7.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.0 fumbles. 6.5 --> 10
T.Romo 6.9 Passing, 0.1 rushing, -0.9 fumbles. 6.1 --> 17
5. D.Garrard 6.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.2 fumbles. 6.0 --> 15
D.Anderson 6.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.5 fumbles. 6.0 --> 27
C.Palmer 5.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 4.7 --> 31
D.Brees 5.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.2 fumbles. 4.7 --> 33
J.Garcia 4.8 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.4 fumbles. 4.4 --> 12
10. K.Warner 5.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.6 fumbles. 4.0 --> 37
M.Hasselbeck 4.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 3.9 --> 17
B.Roethlblah 2.6 Passing, 1.1 rushing, -0.5 fumbles. 3.2 --> 14
J.Cutler 3.3 Passing, 0.5 rushing, -0.8 fumbles. 3.0 --> 29
P.Rivers 3.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.1 fumbles. 2.5 --> 19
15. J.Campbell 2.0 Passing, 0.7 rushing, -1.1 fumbles. 1.6 --> 26
D.McNabb 1.0 Passing, 0.6 rushing, -0.5 fumbles. 1.5 --> 25
E.Manning 1.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.2 fumbles. 0.7 --> 34
V.Young -1.5 Passing, 0.3 rushing, -0.4 fumbles. -1.6 --> 26
J.Harringtn -1.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.0 fumbles. -1.9 --> 48
20. C.Lemon -1.8 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. -2.4 --> 50
J.Kitna -1.4 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.1 fumbles. -2.5 --> 53
D.Huard -3.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. -4.2 --> 36
M.Bulger -3.7 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.7 fumbles. -4.4 --> 54

Colts: 3 (13-3)
Patriots: 5 (16-0)
Packers: 10 (13-3)
Tampa Bay: 12 (9-7)
Steelers: 14 (10-6)
Jacksonville: 15 (11-5)
Seattle: 17 (10-6)
Dallas: 17 (13-3)
Chargers: 19 (11-5)
Philly: 25 (8-8)
Washington: 26 (9-7)
Titans: 26 (10-6)
Cleveland: 27 (10-6)
Chicago: 29 (7-9)
Cinci: 31 (7-9)
N.O.: 33 (7-9)
NYG: 34 (10-6)
K.C.: 36 (4-12) --> Clearly benefited from there being only 23 qualifiers. Huard probably ranked in the bottom 3 but he got credit for 22nd here.
Arizona: 37 (8-8)
Atlanta: 48 (4-12)
Miami: 50 (1-15)
Detroit: 53 (7-9)
St. Louis: 54 (3-13)

EDIT 4: 1995 (29 qualifiers) <-- So many 7-9/8-8/9-7 teams this season (15), still the system sorts them out pretty well.

1. E.Kramer 8.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 7.7 --> 23
B.Favre 6.6 Passing, 0.2 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 6.2 --> 6
T.Aikman 6.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.7 fumbles. 5.9 --> 6
N.O'Donnell 6.0 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.3 fumbles. 5.7 --> 13
5. J.Blake 4.5 Passing, 1.6 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 5.5 --> 29
S.Mitchell 5.8 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 5.2 --> 20
J.Elway 5.6 Passing, 0.2 rushing, -0.7 fumbles. 5.1 --> 24
S.Young 3.9 Passing, 0.8 rushing, -0.2 fumbles. 4.5 --> 10
V.Testaverde 4.9 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 4.3 --> 29
10. D.Marino 5.1 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.1 fumbles. 4.0 --> 20
J.Everett 4.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. 4.0 --> 29
W.Moon 4.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.9 fumbles. 3.3 --> 39
S.Bono 4.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.0 fumbles. 3.2 --> 14
J.Kelly 3.4 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.8 fumbles. 2.6 --> 27
15. S.Humphries 3.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.8 fumbles. 2.4 --> 21
J.George 2.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.4 fumbles. 2.1 --> 35
C.Chandler 3.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.2 fumbles. 2.1 --> 24
J.Harbaugh 1.7 Passing, 0.4 rushing, -0.2 fumbles. 1.9 --> 23
M.Brunell -1.5 Passing, 3.6 rushing, -0.2 fumbles. 1.9 --> 47
20. G.Frerotte 1.6 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.8 fumbles. 0.8 --> 41
D.Bledsoe 1.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.3 fumbles. 0.2 --> 46
C.Miller 0.1 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -0.4 fumbles. -0.3 --> 51
K.Collins -0.2 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.0 fumbles. -1.2 --> 31
B.Esiason -0.5 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.3 fumbles. -1.8 --> 50
25. D.Brown -2.4 Passing, 0.8 rushing, -0.6 fumbles. -2.2 --> 41
R.Peete -3.5 Passing, 0.3 rushing, -1.0 fumbles. -4.2 --> 41
D.Krieg -3.3 Passing, 0.0 rushing, -1.1 fumbles. -4.4 --> 57
R.Mirer -4.9 Passing, 0.4 rushing, -0.3 fumbles. -5.2 --> 51
T.Dilfer -6.8 Passing, 0.4 rushing, -0.9 fumbles. -7.3 --> 41

Expected finish

Green Bay: 6 (11-5)
Dallas: 6 (12-4)
Frisco: 10 (11-5)
Pittsburgh: 13 (11-5)
Kansas City: 14 (13-3)
Detroit: 20 (10-6)
Miami: 20 (9-7)
San Diego: 21 (9-7)
Indy: 23 (9-7)
Chicago: 23 (9-7) <-- Atl beat them into the playoffs, but the Bears were the superior team.
Denver: 24 (8-8)
Houston: 24 (7-9)
Buffalo: 27 (10-6)
New Orleans: 29 (7-9)
Cleveland: 29 (5-11) <-- lost 4 games by 3 or less, -15 in turnover ratio over last 8 games.
Cincinnati: 29 (7-9)
Carolina: 31 (7-9)
Atlanta: 35 (9-7)
Minnesota: 39 (8-8)
Rams: 40 (7-9)
Was: 41 (6-10)
NYG: 41 (5-11)
Philly: 41 (10-6) <--4 wins by 3 or less, 5 defensive touchdowns. Forced 38 turnovers while coughing it up 36 times themselves. Volatile team.
Tampa: 41 (7-9)
New England: 46 (6-10)
Jax: 47 (4-12)
NYJets: 50 (3-13)
Rams: 51 (7-9) <-- Started 4-0 with no turnovers through 4 weeks. They were +14 in those games. Luck (or regression to the mean) turned on them and they would turn the ball over at least 3 times in 7 of their 9 subsequent losses. after the first 4 games, they were -17 in turnover ratio.
Arizona: 57 (4-12)<--Another volatile team. They turned it over 43 times while forcing 42, but their defense was a lot worse than Philly.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Jeff Garcia was criminally underrated.

[cartman]

Jeff Garcia was criminally underrated.

I never doubted him after he landed Carmella DeCesare.

[Julio Riddols]

I wish I was good with excel.

[cuervo72]

Putting Quarterbacks Head to Head: Aaron Rodgers is a True MVP Candidate, Jake Locker Surprises | The Big Lead (http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/31/putting-quarterbacks-head-to-head-aaron-rodgers-is-a-true-mvp-candidate-jake-locker-surprises/)

[Julio Riddols]

I like his data, interesting stuff.. But I am biased because it supports my system a little bit. I need to re-run the 2013 numbers to see where Locker and Brady actually fall now that I have better determined how to compile the final rating.

[Passacaglia]

Wearing that "Free Hernandez" is not looking too good for Mike Pouncey.

Miami's Mike Pouncey served grand jury subpoena in Massachusetts - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131027/mike-pouncey-subpoena-grand-jury-aaron-hernandez/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp)

Just saw this, re-reading last week's thread. Wow, not a good week for the Miami O-Line.

[Passacaglia]

My ratings system. PassYPA - INT% + RushYPA - Sack% + TD%.
For QB's with less than 3 rush attempts per game, their average is zeroed out. This system measures composite performance of QB+pass protection.

I'm going with QB's with a minimum of 100 attempts.

Here's how it shakes out by my system:

Manning: 8.8-1.8+0.0-3.2+8.7 = 12.5
Locker: 6.9-0.7+7.1-7.3+5.3 = 11.3
Rodgers: 8.8-1.6+3.8-6.4+6.0 = 10.6
Luck: 7.0-1.3+6.5-6.3+4.5 = 10.4
Vick: 8.6-2.1+9.1-9.6+3.5 = 09.5
Kaepernick: 8.0-2.5+6.0-7.0+4.5 = 09.0
Dalton: 8.1-2.5+2.8-5.4+5.7 = 08.7
Rivers: 8.6-2.0+0.0-4.2+6.0 = 08.4
Griffin: 7.0-3.0+5.6-5.0+3.4 = 08.0
Stafford: 7.7-1.8+0.0-2.9+4.7 = 07.7
Brees: 8.5-1.8+0.0-6.2+7.0 = 07.5
Romo: 7.5-1.7+0.0-5.1+6.1 = 06.8
Newton: 7.7-2.5+4.6-9.4+5.9 = 06.3
Wilson: 7.9-2.0+5.6-11.6+6.3= 06.2
A.Smith: 6.3-1.4+5.3-7.7+3.1 = 05.6
Ryan: 7.3-2.3+0.0-4.1+4.6 = 05.5
Cutler: 7.4-3.1+0.0-4.3+5.3 = 05.3
Bradford: 6.4-1.5+0.0-5.4+5.3 = 04.8
Manuel: 6.6-2.0+3.6-8.0+3.3 = 03.5
Hoyer*: 6.4-3.1+0.0-5.9+5.2 = 02.6
Glennon: 5.5-1.7+0.0-5.2+3.3 = 01.9
Pryor: 7.3-4.5+7.4-12.3+3.2= 01.1
Tannehill: 6.8-3.4+3.9-10.9+4.2= 00.6
G.Smith: 7.4-5.1+5.1-10.0+3.2= 00.6
Ponder: 6.9-4.1+5.7-9.7+1.7 = 00.5
Schaub: 6.7-3.9+0.0-6.0+3.4 = 00.2
Flacco: 7.1-3.0+0.0-6.9+3.0 = 00.2
Brady: 5.9-2.0+0.0-7.0+2.9 = -00.2
E.Manning: 7.1-4.9+0.0-5.8+3.3 = -00.3
Henne: 6.7-2.3+0.0-6.8+1.4 = -01.0
Roethlisbe: 7.4-2.7+0.0-9.1+3.1 = -01.3
Freeman: 5.2-3.2+0.0-5.2+1.4 = -01.8
Palmer: 6.7-4.9+0.0-7.5+3.5 = -02.2
Weeden: 5.9-3.1+0.0-9.7+2.6 = -04.3
Gabbert**: 5.6-8.1+3.6-12.2+1.2= -09.9

*= only 96 attempts
**=only 86 attempts

Seems like Locker's getting the bulk of his points from his YPA, 7.1 of his 11.3, and he had exactly 3 rushes per game at this time, so one less carry and you would have zeroed out that cell, giving him a 4.2. Maybe something using rush yards per game would help flesh that out, since averaging 21.3 yards per game on 3 plays doesn't really do it for me.

[jbergey22]

Any list with Manning #1 and Gabbert last seems to be a good start.

The thing which is probably most difficult is figuring out a QB as an individual. For example Tom Brady after years of being a top 5 QB it is highly unlikely that suddenly he is a bottom 1/3 QB. Clearly a lot of variables go into that position which make trying to neutralize them likely an impossible task.

[Julio Riddols]

Seems like Locker's getting the bulk of his points from his YPA, 7.1 of his 11.3, and he had exactly 3 rushes per game at this time, so one less carry and you would have zeroed out that cell, giving him a 4.2. Maybe something using rush yards per game would help flesh that out, since averaging 21.3 yards per game on 3 plays doesn't really do it for me.

Yeah, I need to redo the 2013 numbers because I redid the formula after I put that up. Now it's (rush att/15) * (rush average-4), divided by 4.

Lockers number should actually be closer to 7.5/8.

[Julio Riddols]

I'm definitely going to revisit this at the end of the year, then try and find a way to tie in receiver/rb performance as a whole.

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I need to redo the 2013 numbers because I redid the formula after I put that up. Now it's (rush att/15) * (rush average-4), divided by 4.

Lockers number should actually be closer to 7.5/8.

It still seems too high to me that he's getting 3.5 of his points for rushing based on running 3 times per game. You've also got Terrelle Pryor getting 15.5, and Cam Newton getting 2.1 -- those numbers don't really jive with me. For one, 15 points to Pryor puts him in Top 5 QB territory, which is probably not wanted. And I can't imagine Locker is seriously worth more as a rushing QB than Newton -- I think more needs to be said to the fact that Newton is running twice as many times. Also, are QB sneaks counted as runs? If so, how much is a QB getting penalized for running successful QB sneaks that get 1 yard? I'm not sure how to answer that other than putting less weight in the category.