NFL Week 10

[spleen1015]

This is the perfect week for Jacksonville to get their first win. In my survival pool I am the only person who didn't pick Tennessee.

[bulletsponge]

mon Vikings.. dont start winning now

[cuervo72]

Oh, Ponder.

/shakes head

[mckerney]

Hold onto the ball too long on second down, air ball pick off on third. Ponder not wasting any time getting going.

[cuervo72]

[not] dola - now I'm reading that back in Winnie the Pooh voice...

[cuervo72]

Uh, Trent Williams really didn't do *anything* on that play, Mayock.

[mauchow]

Hold onto the ball too long on second down, air ball pick off on third. Ponder not wasting any time getting going.

It's strange to actually see him throwing the ball deep. I think he was told to let go a little bit. It might be apparent now why he was never throwing it deep...because nobody was actually ever open. *sigh*

If we can land a top 3 pick somehow I think we'll still be a playoff contending team next season with all the close losses we've had this year we're much better than you're average 1-win team. LOL

New coach and new QB might be all they need!

[ColtCrazy]

[not] dola - now I'm reading that back in Winnie the Pooh voice...

Damn you. It's in my head now. And, yet, it sounds so appropriate.

[cuervo72]

The fuck, coverage?

[Julio Riddols]

The stadium is so quiet.

[bhlloy]

AP is ridiculous. I don't know any other back in history who has that combination of footwork and power. Some of the runs he puts up on a bad team that can't throw the ball and where he should have been stopped for a loss are just stupid

[britrock88]

AP is ridiculous. I don't know any other back in history who has that combination of footwork and power. Some of the runs he puts up on a bad team that can't throw the ball and where he should have been stopped for a loss are just stupid

No NFLN here; is he still playing without the gloves? When I saw that on Sunday, I thought I had beheld a Greek god.

[cuervo72]

Why...seriously MIN?

[kingfc22]

Ummmm.....Why are the Vikings calling a timeout here. Frazier should be fired on the spot. Idiot.

[mckerney]

Maybe the Vikings should just ask the refs if they can transfer their timeouts to Washington.

[mckerney]

Dammit, probably another year where beating Washington moves the Vikings out of position to draft a QB.

[Ben E Lou]

Moving the Martin/Incognito stuff into its own thread.

[kingfc22]

Indy getting blown out at home. Didn't see that coming.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Scott Tolzien of Green Bay Packers in at QB for injured Seneca Wallace - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9956206/scott-tolzien-green-bay-packers-qb-injured-seneca-wallace)

[TroyF]

OK, so for all of the Packer fans booing the late hit on the QB call on this drive:

1) It was a late hit and he put the crown of his helmet down, even if he didn't contact the head with it.

2) Earlier, on a key third down, there was a face mask penalty that somehow every ref missed on McCoy. It would have been a 15 yard face mask back when there was a choice of 5 or 15 yards. It ended a drive and forced the Eagles to kick a FG.

So, really, stop the booing. You got away with one. :)

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, that facemask was pretty blatant. Tolzien has played well, I think.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Falcons keep working their way right up the draft ladder. Clowney or Barr, or maybe one of the OT's.

[Thomkal]

the crazy NFL season continues-Indy being blown out by St. Louis, who would have called that.

[Arles]

For the first time since I can remember, it's time to start looking at the draft for Packer fans. What a cursed season this has been for the team. Losing their top 3 players for extended times, top 2 QBs, 4 OL starters, 2 WRs, 3 DBs and 4 LBs. Short of bringing in some kind of witch doctor to reverse this stretch of bad luck - I'm not sure what options they have ;)

[Thomkal]

Idiots never learn I guess:

Jerome Simpson of Minnesota Vikings arrested for DWI - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9950078/jerome-simpson-minnesota-vikings-arrested-dwi)

First year of probation from his earlier arrest so probably going to be out for a while.

[Arles]

OK, so for all of the Packer fans booing the late hit on the QB call on this drive:

1) It was a late hit and he put the crown of his helmet down, even if he didn't contact the head with it.

2) Earlier, on a key third down, there was a face mask penalty that somehow every ref missed on McCoy. It would have been a 15 yard face mask back when there was a choice of 5 or 15 yards. It ended a drive and forced the Eagles to kick a FG.

So, really, stop the booing. You got away with one. :)
We are grateful for this bit of good fortune. Seems like everything has been going our way this year ... :rolleyes:

[Thomkal]

For the first time since I can remember, it's time to start looking at the draft for Packer fans. What a cursed season this has been for the team. Losing their top 3 players for extended times, top 2 QBs, 4 OL starters, 2 WRs, 3 DBs and 4 LBs. Short of bringing in some kind of witch doctor to reverse this stretch of bad luck - I'm not sure what options they have ;)

I wonder if the Packers will sign Matt Flynn now if Wallace is seriously injured-what a weird circle of events that would be if it happens.

[Arles]

I wonder if the Packers will sign Matt Flynn now if Wallace is seriously injured-what a weird circle of events that would be if it happens.
From what I understand, Flynn has a fairly significant arm injury and that's why he was never contacted by GB.

[Thomkal]

From what I understand, Flynn has a fairly significant arm injury and that's why he was never contacted by GB.

Ah I had not heard that-all I was hearing was rumors that they would work him out.

[Arles]

Ah I had not heard that-all I was hearing was rumors that they would work him out.
One of the beat reporters mentioned it last week. Maybe things are dire enough to kick the tires on him this week though. Here was the tweet:

As @Edwerderespn has said before, was told today that the Packers have concerns Matt Flynn has some arm issues. A waiver claim unlikely.

[Jas_lov]

They've actually driven the ball well but can't finish drives. Crosby and the secondary are still awful. About their only chance to win a game without Rodgers is in two weeks against Minnesota. Their only hope is they go 1-2 without Rodgers and then he can come back for Thanksgiving at Detroit.

[larrymcg421]

Hate that the Falcons didn't go for two. Love that the Colts did.

[hoopsguy]

Just now getting to sit down and watch some football. Cutler looking like Ponder in 4th quarter ... lots of short dump offs and inaccurate on anything requiring him to step into the throw. Kudos for him trying to play hurt, but Bears probably benefit from starting the healthy guy today if first 3 quarters looked like the last 11 minutes of play.

[Atocep]

Just now getting to sit down and watch some football. Cutler looking like Ponder in 4th quarter ... lots of short dump offs and inaccurate on anything requiring him to step into the throw. Kudos for him trying to play hurt, but Bears probably benefit from starting the healthy guy today if first 3 quarters looked like the last 11 minutes of play.

He's also hit his throwing hand on a helmet today and has swelling.

[hoopsguy]

Looks like team agreed, as McCown being brought in for final drive.

No pressure, dude - down 8, 2:18 to go, one timeout.

[hoopsguy]

Mensa member Nick Fairley gives Bears 15 free yards.

[hoopsguy]

4th personal foul on Lions. But Bears needed a 5th. Game over.

[Jas_lov]

The rules for a completed catch change from week to week and from crew to crew. Jordy Nelson has his hand under the ball and secured against his stomach. Rules state the ball can touch the ground as long as the player has control. That's exactly what Jordy did and Mike Carey still ruled it incomplete so his crew wasn't embarrassed getting two calls in a row overturned by McCarthy's challenges.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Lions!!!!

[claphamsa]

The Ravens Bengals game has been one of the worst played games every. And one of the worst officiated games ever. I guess we have no beef with loosing... but wow.

[hoopsguy]

This is the perfect week for Jacksonville to get their first win. In my survival pool I am the only person who didn't pick Tennessee.

Assuming your pick comes in, congrats on taking home a pool.

[weegeebored]

4th personal foul on Lions. But Bears needed a 5th. Game over.No, the Bears still need a head coach who knows what he's doing. Leaving an obviously immobile Cutler in. Stupid. The two play calls for the 2 pt. conversion. Double stupid. The Lions, who are not good, got a gift win. The Bears did not take advantage of the Lions idiocy.

[hoopsguy]

Well, that doesn't happen every day ... Bengals.

[kingfc22]

AJ Green! LOL Ravens.

[tucker rocky]

AJ Green! LOL Ravens.

Dalton doing his best Flacco impersonation.

[Honolulu_Blue]

No, the Bears still need a head coach who knows what he's doing. Leaving an obviously immobile Cutler in. Stupid. The two play calls for the 2 pt. conversion. Double stupid. The Lions, who are not good, got a gift win. The Bears did not take advantage of the Lions idiocy.

While the Lions do have the propensity for making bonehead plays (something they had been avoiding pretty well for the last few weeks up to this game), to say they are "not good" is a bit of a stretch.

[Atocep]

No, the Bears still need a head coach who knows what he's doing. Leaving an obviously immobile Cutler in. Stupid. The two play calls for the 2 pt. conversion. Double stupid. The Lions, who are not good, got a gift win. The Bears did not take advantage of the Lions idiocy.

Still John Shoop right?

Entered the game 2nd in the league in scoring and 5th on offensive DVOA.

Trestman had some bad calls today, but I'm not willing to put leaving Cutler in on him without knowing what they know on the sideline. Football isn't a text sim and there are egos and locker rooms coaches have to deal with. If Cutler insisted on playing and the doctors cleared him then you have to play him.

Putting Bush in to run on 4th and 1 was the worst call I saw from him today.

[Danny]

what an awful play call

[Danny]

some more awful play calling by baltimore this time

[cougarfreak]

The Ravens Bengals game has been one of the worst played games every. And one of the worst officiated games ever. I guess we have no beef with loosing... but wow.

Amen. I'm a Bengal fan, and good god the refs for fucking atrocious. For both teams.

[cuervo72]

This is the perfect week for Jacksonville to get their first win. In my survival pool I am the only person who didn't pick Tennessee.

:banana:

[RainMaker]

Bears have a bad coach.

[Thomkal]

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?

[TroyF]

Last week against Washington and now this week against the Chargers, the Denver D is showing what they lacked the first seven games. Once Miller got his footing, you now see the Denver pass rush getting pressure with four guys. Suddenly, the DB's who were being torched to a crisp look like NFL players again. (though I wish they would stop dropping INT's)

Now, if the offense doesn't get some first downs, the defense will implode. You can't stay on the field this long. Granted, the offense is 1 for 2 with a long TD, but the defense is on the field way too long. Horrible, horrible drop from Welker there. He needs to make that catch. (Patriots fans who will be here screaming about "I told you so", I will still take him, even with the occasional drop)

[Masked]

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?

Agreed - there appeared to be no doubt that the SF receiver caught the ball and fumbled.

[tucker rocky]

wow how is that not a fumble in the SF/CAR game?
Looked like SF receiver made a football move(heading upfield), call on the field should've been reversed.

[Lathum]

They've actually driven the ball well but can't finish drives. Crosby and the secondary are still awful. About their only chance to win a game without Rodgers is in two weeks against Minnesota. Their only hope is they go 1-2 without Rodgers and then he can come back for Thanksgiving at Detroit.

You do realize they play the Giants next week?

[Thomkal]

Ah there's Carson Palmer keeping his streak alive-9 straight games with an INT. Most in the NFL. Lovely

[Radii]

Vernon Davis out for the rest of the game.

[Radii]

Between drops from the WRs, giving the ball away after a blocked punt, and now a missed FG, Carolina is just missing too many opportunities against a good team.

[Arles]

You do realize they play the Giants next week?
That will be a major NFC toilet bowl. Hopefully, for the Pack, Eli decides to give us a few pick 6s.

[kingfc22]

Damn. If only one of those fumbles bounced the Niners way.

[Radii]

Whew. What a huge win!!!!

[jbergey22]

Bears have a bad coach.

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

[Jas_lov]

That will be a major NFC toilet bowl. Hopefully, for the Pack, Eli decides to give us a few pick 6s.

I think Rodgers is such a difference maker that they would have beaten Chicago, Philly, and NYG with him but will lose all 3 without him. Rodgers masks the major holes in the team. There's also many injuries elsewhere which hurt. The Bears and the Packers have just been devastated by injuries this season. If the Lions can't win the division this year they'll never win it.

[EagleFan]

The rules for a completed catch change from week to week and from crew to crew. Jordy Nelson has his hand under the ball and secured against his stomach. Rules state the ball can touch the ground as long as the player has control. That's exactly what Jordy did and Mike Carey still ruled it incomplete so his crew wasn't embarrassed getting two calls in a row overturned by McCarthy's challenges.

He was bobbling the ball and didn't secure it until after the ball hit the ground. The ground helped him secure it.

[ColtCrazy]

Worst Colts game I've been to in 20 years. But, some odd plays led to TDs for the Rams so I'm not panicked. And Luck isn't liable to be that bad very often. Plus, the Titans lost and so did the Bengals, so it's wash anyway. Figure the Colts need to get the 3 seed to avoid Broncos/Chiefs WC opponent.

In fantasy, Demarius Thomas and Megatron totally saved me from starting Kaepernick over Keenum.

[jbergey22]

Drew Brees makes offense look too easy.

[Atocep]

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

I'm quite pleased with him as a first year coach. The football is actually watchable and far better than I was expecting to see considering the level of change there was to the offensive philosophy and playbook. I was expecting 5-6 wins with 7-9 likely being the ceiling for this team.

He's had some good games coaching (Bengals. Green Bay) and some bad ones (Lions). When I compare him to the other first year coaches around the NFL it's hard to be disappointed.

[cartman]

Sadly, this game should be a big slap up along side Jerruh's head that he needs to step aside and hire a real GM. He hands out the big contracts, but doesn't leave anything for depth. But I'm certain he is not going to see it that way.

[weegeebored]

Still John Shoop right?

Entered the game 2nd in the league in scoring and 5th on offensive DVOA.

Trestman had some bad calls today, but I'm not willing to put leaving Cutler in on him without knowing what they know on the sideline. Football isn't a text sim and there are egos and locker rooms coaches have to deal with. If Cutler insisted on playing and the doctors cleared him then you have to play him.

Putting Bush in to run on 4th and 1 was the worst call I saw from him today.If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink. Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long. And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one. Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

[Atocep]

If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink.

10th in DVOA. Part of why bears fans think the defense sucks, and I've been guilty of it too, is they've been spoiled over the past several years. Bears fans are learning what an average NFL defense looks like this year. It's not a terrible defense, but it's not very good either.


Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long.

There isn't a coach in the NFL that's taking his franchise QB out unless the QB asks to come out or the medical staff pulls him. It creates more problems down the road than it's worth.

Cutler eventually came out because he asked to come out. Which, like it or not, is the way it works in the NFL.


And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one.

NFL teams don't go for it on 4th and 1 enough. Touchdowns win games more often than not. I 100% agree with the decision to go for it on 4th and 1. The problem was bringing in a backup running back to run the ball because he's the designated "short yardage back".

Oh, the bears are 6th in the NFL in rushing DVOA and middle of the pack on power runs (would probably be higher if Bush wasn't getting most of those carries).

Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

Bad coaching decisions did play a role in this loss, but you're also a guy that pegged the coach that has this offense 2nd in the NFL in scoring and among the top 5 overall as the 2nd coming of John Shoop. But I guess credit should go to the guy that's running Trestman's system rather than Trestman himself.

[Danny]

The boys making mark Ingram look like a hofer

[jbergey22]

If you're going to cite stats/rankings in support of Trestman, how about listing where they are on defense? Don't bother. They stink. Being a head coach on game day is about making good decisions or at least avoiding bad ones. Why did it take him 28 minutes to figure out that McCown was a better option in the 2nd half? And I don't care if the medical staff cleared him. Anyone with half a brain could see that Cutler couldn't move around much and was getting knocked down all game long. And how do you not let Gould try that field goal? Nope. Try to run the ball -- which the Bears don't do well -- on 4th and a long one. Trestman's getting a lot of love it seems but I am more inclined to give it to Kromer. The Bears needed to win this game and probably should have. Bad coaching decisions prevented that, imo.

You must want Lovie Smith back. He will take back in time to 1980 where you always kick and have a poor offense 90 percent of the time. You really need to be patient with him. Before Cutler got injured that offense was clicking.

He is aggressive and leaves himself open to the Monday morning QB but once upon a time until people learned to just trust his judgement Bill Bellichek was/is the same way.

Send him to Minnesota if you dont want him.

One of the guys on his coaching staff, Carson Walsh, I went to college with and am pulling for these guys.

[jbergey22]

The boys making mark Ingram look like a hofer

LOL, that is for sure. I was thinking he was playing for Alabama against Chattanooga for awhile.

[weegeebored]

Bad coaching decisions did play a role in this loss, but you're also a guy that pegged the coach that has this offense 2nd in the NFL in scoring and among the top 5 overall as the 2nd coming of John Shoop. But I guess credit should go to the guy that's running Trestman's system rather than Trestman himself.Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

[Danny]

Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

I am not a Bears fan, but do you think they are more talented than their 5-4 record? I personally do not think so. I haven't watched enough to comment on Trestman specifics, but I definitely dont see the Bears as an underachieving team, especially given Cutler's recent injury troubles.

[jbergey22]

Kromer's the offensive line coach/coordinator and the line, imo, is the biggest reason the Bears are better offensively this year, not Trestman. Turner's offense would have looked better with this O-line. Let me give you the most important stat: 5-4. At the end of the year, tell me again about that NFL scoring rank when the Bears are out of the playoffs.

Yeah, of course it would have very little to do with Trestman, a well known offensive guru. Has to be the line coach.

[weegeebored]

You must want Lovie Smith back.No thank you. He had more than enough time to prove his incompetence. Many Bears fans love Trestman because he's the anti-Lovie -- all offense, no defense. And the NFL is all about offense now. But Lovie and a bad offense had 10 wins last year. I'm not sure the Bears have five more wins in them this year. And Trestman will get a pass because his offense is ranked in the top five, and he had so many injuries to deal with, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile, Bears fans suffer with their team not in the playoffs -- again.

[weegeebored]

Yeah, of course it would have very little to do with Trestman, a well known offensive guru. Has to be the line coach.Yeah, he's so good every NFL team wanted him.

[jbergey22]

No thank you. He had more than enough time to prove his incompetence. Many Bears fans love Trestman because he's the anti-Lovie -- all offense, no defense. And the NFL is all about offense now. But Lovie and a bad offense had 10 wins last year. I'm not sure the Bears have five more wins in them this year. And Trestman will get a pass because his offense is ranked in the top five, and he had so many injuries to deal with, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile, Bears fans suffer with their team not in the playoffs -- again.

Understand the frustration. Like Danny mentioned, I dont think the Bears are any better talentwise than a 8-8 team. He has helped give you a solid offensive line, helped give you another very good WR who did very little last year, and found a way to best utilize Forte.

He will have the entire off season to now focus on fixing that defense. They just dont have a lot of talent on that end of the ball. Lovie made the defense appear reasonable simply from calling such a conservative gameplan.

[jbergey22]

Yeah, he's so good every NFL team wanted him.

The Head Coach is in charge. He hires his assistants, he decides on the gameplan, he tells his offensive line coach how he wants the fundamentals of offensive line play taught. A good head coach hires good people and stays out of the way unless he is needed. You cant give the offensive line coach this much credit without giving credit back to the head coach.

If the offensive line coach was so good he would have been named the head coach instead of Trestman or be a head coach somewhere else.

[weegeebored]

I am not a Bears fan, but do you think they are more talented than their 5-4 record? Good question. They have a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball, especially with the o-line playing as well as it has. I expected them to have 8 or 9 wins, so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad. But I got some false hope early, and thought that -- without some bad coaching decisions -- they could have a couple more wins and be in solid playoff contention.

jbergey is right -- I'm just frustrated.

[britrock88]

PANTHARS

:)

[Butter]

Typical Bengals, acted like they won the game when they only tied it. Dalton was horrific again yesterday. Don't know what it is about him and road games.

I think my favorite Dierdorf moment was when Sanu (or Jones?) was going up for a catch late in the game and had an arm held that prevented him from reaching for the ball, and Dierdorf says "that's not interference, that's just good coverage." I would have to think that would be one of the textbook cases of interference right there.

Anyway, just need to beat the Browns next week then rest up for the stretch run of some tough games.

[RainMaker]

One of the guys on his coaching staff, Carson Walsh, I went to college with and am pulling for these guys.

Did you go to Winona too? Lived next door to him I think my Junior Year.

[RainMaker]

Already unhappy with Mark Trestman? What more can he do? The Bears actually have a good offense for the first time in 25 years and the defense for how untalented they are actually do decent enough to win games.

He will have your offense clicking on all cylinders with the next 2 years.

That offense is one of the most talented in the league. Has only one weakness at right tackle. Making them look good shouldn't require a monumental coaching effort.

The defense has gotten worse. Most of their young talent has regressed this season a great deal. Maybe Lovie was just great at turning lemons into lemonade, but it is something that has happened. And special teams has had another dropoff which is expected after losing Toub.

For all the talk of scheme and systems, yesterday showed why Trestman is not ready to be an NFL Head Coach. An offensive coordinator, sure. QB coach, definitely. But he's not a head coach. Cutler should have never been out there and at worst should have been pulled when it was clear he had no mobility. People can talk about not pulling your "franchise QB" but that is what a coach is paid for. That decision cost the Bears the division title and likely a trip to the playoffs. There is no way to defense it.

He also made some bizarre playcalls in that game. Not taking the 3 I'll give him a pass on, but using Bush who has been poor all season in short yardage was a mistake. Calling the inside slant before the half was silly when you have receivers as big and strong as the Bears who should be isolated on the outside.

But both 2-point conversion calls sealed up this as a complete coaching disaster. The first attempt (which they got bailed out on) he took out the Bears two best offensive players for the most important play of the season. That's right, he took out their two best receivers and called a passing play that focused on getting the ball to a backup TE. And the 2nd attempt is a running play which had not worked all game to the left side of the line which is much worse at run blocking than the right.

He got cute with his playcalling at bad times and it cost them. That's shit you might be able to get away with in the CFL but doesn't cut it in the NFL. Just disappointing that the Bears have to go through growing pains with a head coach who is not ready for primetime.

[cougarfreak]

Typical Bengals, acted like they won the game when they only tied it. Dalton was horrific again yesterday. Don't know what it is about him and road games.

I think my favorite Dierdorf moment was when Sanu (or Jones?) was going up for a catch late in the game and had an arm held that prevented him from reaching for the ball, and Dierdorf says "that's not interference, that's just good coverage." I would have to think that would be one of the textbook cases of interference right there.

Anyway, just need to beat the Browns next week then rest up for the stretch run of some tough games.

And when the Bengals DB did it later Dierdorf was screaming for interference. He's horrible.

[RainMaker]

10th in DVOA. Part of why bears fans think the defense sucks, and I've been guilty of it too, is they've been spoiled over the past several years. Bears fans are learning what an average NFL defense looks like this year. It's not a terrible defense, but it's not very good either.

Not a good year to be touting DVOA, especially when it comes to the Bears. Up until last week they had missed on every single Bears pick this season. It's clear DVOA had grossly overvalued the Bears.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Great win for the Panthers. I know their defense is really good, but good lord that was a piss-poor effort by the 49er offense. Now it looks as if the road to the title game will go through Seattle, and that's bad news for everyone in the NFC.

[jbergey22]

Did you go to Winona too? Lived next door to him I think my Junior Year.

Small world. Yes I did 95-99.

[RainMaker]

98-02 here. I didn't even know he was a coach on the Bears till you mentioned it. He was a good player.

[jbergey22]

98-02 here. I didn't even know he was a coach on the Bears till you mentioned it. He was a good player.

Yes he was. He coached with Trestman in Canada last year when they won the title.

[Arles]

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

[jbergey22]

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

I think the bigger question is. How did he have that 6-7 TD game in the first place?

Also, his practice performance cant be that much better than Tebow as it seems Flynn is commonly dropping his depth chart position prior to season beginning.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Packers are working out Matt Flynn today. Word is, even if he's signed, he would only be a backup to Tolzien because of Wallace's injury. How far has Matt Flynn fallen? If he returns to a team where he played the best, he would only be a backup behind a guy elevated from the practice squad last week ...

I think there are concerns that Matt Flynn is injured or has some lingering problem that's having a pretty big impact on his performance. I forgot where I read that, but I read it somewhere.

I think the bigger question is. How did he have that 6-7 TD game in the first place?

The Lions.

[Radii]

Great win for the Panthers. I know their defense is really good, but good lord that was a piss-poor effort by the 49er offense. Now it looks as if the road to the title game will go through Seattle, and that's bad news for everyone in the NFC.

I had the feeling throughout that if Vernon Davis had played the second half it would have looked a lot like the Carolina/Seattle or Carolina/Buffalo games with Carolina falling behind in the end.

Alternatively, Carolina made so many mistakes themselves on offense with dropped passes on 3rd downs and a couple special teams screwups that Carolina really should have scored more as well. I think this should have played out like a tight 20-17 game where the defenses looked really good, but the offenses at least looked competent.


I was terrified of this game, fearing that Carolina was that team that beats up on bad ones but can't hang with good ones... now, I'm legitimately excited to see what they can do at home next week vs New England. I'm not saying Carolina should dominate or anything, but its kinda nice feeling like my team can hang with anyone!

[Desnudo]

I had the feeling throughout that if Vernon Davis had played the second half it would have looked a lot like the Carolina/Seattle or Carolina/Buffalo games with Carolina falling behind in the end.

Alternatively, Carolina made so many mistakes themselves on offense with dropped passes on 3rd downs and a couple special teams screwups that Carolina really should have scored more as well. I think this should have played out like a tight 20-17 game where the defenses looked really good, but the offenses at least looked competent.


I was terrified of this game, fearing that Carolina was that team that beats up on bad ones but can't hang with good ones... now, I'm legitimately excited to see what they can do at home next week vs New England. I'm not saying Carolina should dominate or anything, but its kinda nice feeling like my team can hang with anyone!

There's a very good chance Carolina could rush for 200+ yards next week.

[Lathum]

I know we have a lot of Niners fans on the board. Anyone feel like they traded the wrong quarterback?

[RainMaker]

I don't think Kaepernick was worth all the hype he received this offseason. But he really doesn't have any weapons to work with outside of Vernon Davis. And Davis is really inconsistent. That team desperately needs a threat spread out wide.

[Butter]

Was wondering about the Panther fans on here and their feelings towards Rivera? Seemed like he was possibly out the door at midseason if they didn't do something.

Well, they've done something, but has he just bought himself time, or is he finally getting players bought in?

[Honolulu_Blue]

After Sunday most people are picking the Lions to win the NFC Central. This largely due to two things. First, the injuries to the Packers (Rodgers) and Bears (Briggs, Cutler and others) and Minnesota not being very good. It's very likely that with a healthy Cutler or even perhaps McCown playing more than a series, the Bears win yesterday, but the Lions managed to win, sweep the Bears and take first place over all.

Second, the Lions schedule is pretty light: At Pittsburgh, home against Tampa, home against Green Bay, at Philly, home against Baltimore, home against the Giants, and at Minnesota.

The toughest games are likely home against Green Bay and at Philly, though if Rodgers is still out the Lions may actually have a chance to win their first Thanksgiving Day game in 10 years.

It's on odd position to be in for a Lions fan. You want to believe this team could win the division and make the playoffs, but in the back of your mind you keep thinking: "The are the Lions. They will blow this somehow. It's how they do." After the lost decade of the Milllen era and the fallout from all of that, not being eliminated from the playoffs by early November is good enough.

On another Lions note, while undrafted free agent Joe Fauria stole all the headlines a few weeks ago when he scored 3 TDs against Cleveland, it's looking like undrafted free agent tackle LaAdrian Waddle (Texas Tech) may be the real find. He's started the last two games and has really looked good. In fact, the offensive line, in general, that starts two rookies on the right side (Warford and Waddle) and a second year guy as the starting left tackle (Riley Reif), has played really well so far. That was a huge question mark coming into the season with the Lions losing both starting tackles and a guard.

[TroyF]

I know we have a lot of Niners fans on the board. Anyone feel like they traded the wrong quarterback?

I'm not a Niners fan, but I think it all has to do with the his weaponry. He has Boldin and Vernan Davis as threats. While people still talk about Davis as a star, he caught 41 passes for under 600 yards last year. He's not a TE you can build your offense around. Everyone loves Boldin, but he last had a 1,000 yard season in 2009.

After those two, there are no quality targets to throw the football to. He needs at least two more legitimate targets right now.

I don't think the hype was overstated, I think the kid is going to be a star. But he is not a star yet and as a young QB, he needs help. I think Smith is better for the offense they have right now (no real downfield weapons, quick decisions, etc.) But he wouldn't be for the team they want down the road.

[Thomkal]

I had the feeling throughout that if Vernon Davis had played the second half it would have looked a lot like the Carolina/Seattle or Carolina/Buffalo games with Carolina falling behind in the end.

Alternatively, Carolina made so many mistakes themselves on offense with dropped passes on 3rd downs and a couple special teams screwups that Carolina really should have scored more as well. I think this should have played out like a tight 20-17 game where the defenses looked really good, but the offenses at least looked competent.


I was terrified of this game, fearing that Carolina was that team that beats up on bad ones but can't hang with good ones... now, I'm legitimately excited to see what they can do at home next week vs New England. I'm not saying Carolina should dominate or anything, but its kinda nice feeling like my team can hang with anyone!

Except with my beloved Cardinals :D

[Julio Riddols]

It's on odd position to be in for a Bengals fan. You want to believe this team could win the division and make the playoffs, but in the back of your mind you keep thinking: "They are the Bengals. They will blow this somehow. It's how they do."

Put that in my point of view for you.

[Radii]

Was wondering about the Panther fans on here and their feelings towards Rivera? Seemed like he was possibly out the door at midseason if they didn't do something.

Well, they've done something, but has he just bought himself time, or is he finally getting players bought in?


My expectations going into this year were 7-9 or 8-8 and Rivera gone at the end of the year. I thought it would have made a lot of sense to do a full housecleaning last year when Hurney was fired and bring in a new coach then too. Once that didn't happen, I assumed Rivera was around for this entire season, and *maybe* two, because while Gettleman has done really nice work, its still a massive mess left by the former GM that takes more than one year to get in shape.


The one thing that has clearly changed overnight is Rivera's willingness to take calculated risks. Carolina has lost 3 games I believe in the final seconds over the last couple years where Rivera opted not to go for 4th and 1 in the opponent's territory to seal a win, most recently in the Buffalo loss this year. Since that loss to Buffalo, the playcalling has been much more aggressive, and it has paid off with numerous 4th down conversions that have kept drives alive and won games.

As far as coaching goes, that's really the only difference I can see watching the games. I watch 7-10 hours of football every Sunday, but I don't read a lot of analysis during the week or watch a ton of ESPN/NFL Network, so I may not be aware of any other philosophical changes that may have kicked in after the awful Arizona loss.


Other thoughts:

-- The front 7 is obviously great on defense, but its very young, two rookies at DT, so it makes sense that they'd be improving quickly with live experience.

-- Usage of the stable of backs seems to be improving. The first few weeks Cam didn't run any besides scrambling. Last year there was *WAY* too much read option, and the RB's were severely underused. Early on it seemed like they overcompensated for that and removed Cam as a threat to run. It feels like there's a better balance now, Cam is a threat for a few designed runs but not overused. Additionally, Tolbert is seeing much heavier use, even with Stewart back, and Tolbert is a damn monster.

-- Brandon LaFell seems to finally be developing into... something. I'm a little hesitant to say he's turned into a reliable #2 receiver, but he's definitely found a way to be a legitimate contributor on offense. Ted Ginn has made a few nice grabs and is a deep threat, which has helped too. The WR group is not a strength, but its much less of a glaring weakness.




I still don't know what to expect the rest of the way. I mean, they scored 10 points against San Francisco, usually that doesn't win games. They almost beat Seattle, they should have beaten Buffalo, this could easily be a 7-1 team right now. Or... if they don't run into a San Francisco team at just the right time, and if Davis plays in the second half, they could be a 5-4 team who is doing nothing but beating up on the Tamps and Giants of the league.


I loved what Gettleman did this offseason, and I was totally ready to give a mulligan for this year. Rivera adjusting his late game playcalling may well be enough for now (that stat about Carolina being 2-12 in games decided by less than 7 points under Rivera is pretty telling)?

[Coffee Warlord]

Tillman done for the year.

[Radii]

Well, they've done something, but has he just bought himself time, or is he finally getting players bought in?

To answer this btw, I could completely see Carolina losing to New England, getting swept by New Orleans, and losing at Atlanta and finishing 8-8, especially if they lose a few of those in close fashion to make that record in close games look even worse. If that happens, I could still see him getting fired at the end of the year.

Carolina's M.O. in recent years has been to start 1-6, but finish strong when it didn't matter to finish 7-9 or 8-8 and give everyone false hope, so people don't get fired/dropped when they should. That can't happen this year, so Carolina likely ends up a playoff team or feeling really disappointed at the end of the year.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Put that in my point of view for you.

Come on, now! Haven't the Bengals made it to the playoffs the last two years in a row? That's gotta account for something.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

P. Manning expected to play against Chiefs despite ankle injury.

Peyton Manning of Denver Broncos aggravated ankle, will play - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9961255/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-aggravated-ankle-play)

[TroyF]

P. Manning expected to play against Chiefs despite ankle injury.

Peyton Manning of Denver Broncos aggravated ankle, will play - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9961255/peyton-manning-denver-broncos-aggravated-ankle-play)

Was there really any doubt? I think the MRI could have come back stating he needed to amputate his leg and he'd have played. if he does ever sit, it will be because he was drug away screaming from the practice field.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Was there really any doubt? I think the MRI could have come back stating he needed to amputate his leg and he'd have played. if he does ever sit, it will be because he was drug away screaming from the practice field.

I suppose you can't be less mobile than he already is. Not much changes there outside of trying to get rid of the ball a bit earlier to avoid hits.

[jbergey22]

I suppose you can't be less mobile than he already is. Not much changes there outside of trying to get rid of the ball a bit earlier to avoid hits.

His pocket awareness more than makes up for his lack of mobility. Can't see any real change in his game this week. The chiefs will have a sitting target just like they would have. It is their job to figure out a way to disrupt it.

[Julio Riddols]

Come on, now! Haven't the Bengals made it to the playoffs the last two years in a row? That's gotta account for something.

It does, but after spending my entire life waiting it looked like we had something this year.. But it's the Bengals. After they started 6-2 I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Danny]

Well at least I can say I havent been let down by the Raiders at all in the past 10 years

[BillJasper]

Well at least I can say I havent been let down by the Raiders at all in the past 10 years

At least the Dolphins came up with a unique way to flush my hopes this season. :lol:

[Lathum]

so, uh, who's watching tonights game?

[Coffee Warlord]

There's a game on?

[larrymcg421]

so, uh, who's watching tonights game?

:raises hand:

[BillJasper]

Miami just looks awful. Against an 0-7 team.

[Danny]

0-8

[Matthean]

After Sunday most people are picking the Lions to win the NFC Central. This largely due to two things. First, the injuries to the Packers (Rodgers) and Bears (Briggs, Cutler and others) and Minnesota not being very good. It's very likely that with a healthy Cutler or even perhaps McCown playing more than a series, the Bears win yesterday, but the Lions managed to win, sweep the Bears and take first place over all.

Second, the Lions schedule is pretty light: At Pittsburgh, home against Tampa, home against Green Bay, at Philly, home against Baltimore, home against the Giants, and at Minnesota.

The toughest games are likely home against Green Bay and at Philly, though if Rodgers is still out the Lions may actually have a chance to win their first Thanksgiving Day game in 10 years.

It's on odd position to be in for a Lions fan. You want to believe this team could win the division and make the playoffs, but in the back of your mind you keep thinking: "The are the Lions. They will blow this somehow. It's how they do." After the lost decade of the Milllen era and the fallout from all of that, not being eliminated from the playoffs by early November is good enough.

On another Lions note, while undrafted free agent Joe Fauria stole all the headlines a few weeks ago when he scored 3 TDs against Cleveland, it's looking like undrafted free agent tackle LaAdrian Waddle (Texas Tech) may be the real find. He's started the last two games and has really looked good. In fact, the offensive line, in general, that starts two rookies on the right side (Warford and Waddle) and a second year guy as the starting left tackle (Riley Reif), has played really well so far. That was a huge question mark coming into the season with the Lions losing both starting tackles and a guard.

1. Even with a decent seed, I don't think fans are fooled into thinking how far this team can go. Seattle and NO are both leaps ahead of the Lions and will likely have home field against the Lions.

2. Picking up steals will go a long way towards Lions being decent while trying to salvage their salary cap issues.

[cuervo72]

Nitpick...but uh, just knock the ball down there, Revis.

[Matthean]

And the 2008 Lions can break out the Pepto Bismol.

[BishopMVP]

On another Lions note, while undrafted free agent Joe Fauria stole all the headlines a few weeks ago when he scored 3 TDs against Cleveland, it's looking like undrafted free agent tackle LaAdrian Waddle (Texas Tech) may be the real find. He's started the last two games and has really looked good. In fact, the offensive line, in general, that starts two rookies on the right side (Warford and Waddle) and a second year guy as the starting left tackle (Riley Reif), has played really well so far. That was a huge question mark coming into the season with the Lions losing both starting tackles and a guard.LaAdrian??? How is La a good prefix when the rest of the name begins with a vowel?

[Honolulu_Blue]

LaAdrian??? How is La a good prefix when the rest of the name begins with a vowel?

I think that question is best directed at Mama or Papa Waddle. I am sure there was a method to their madness.

[Honolulu_Blue]

“It’s the little brother that, big brother wants to go out and play with his friends and the little brother is annoying, [saying], ‘Hey, can I go? No, you can’t go, Detroit Lions. Sit back. Sit in your little city. Fix your financial problems and all of that, you know. You can’t come with us right now. But right now, they’ve got the best of us. They beat us twice. They swept us. But what matters is when we see them in the playoffs. It’ll be a great show. It’s gonna be tough. But I guarantee it’s not gonna go down like it did the first two games.”

“They’re borderline illegal. I’ll attach my name to it. I’m looking at film today, and it was kind of disgusting to see the D-line go out of their way to knock our quarterbacks down after every single play. The ball was gone. They’re pushing them down. They’re hitting them below their knees. It was kind of disgusting. It seemed like it was game planned, but it was borderline. You can’t say it was illegal. But it was definitely one of those things where you say, ‘Hey, we’ve got to pay attention to this.”

Dayuum, Brandon Marshall! That's harsh.

[Desnudo]

LaAdrian??? How is La a good prefix when the rest of the name begins with a vowel?

You mean Like A-Aron?

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