Official College Football Week 12 thread [Archive]

dawgfan

11-11-2013, 05:41 PM

Friday night game is at the Rose Bowl, as UDub visits UCLA in an important game for both programs. Be prepared for lots of banter back and forth between me, Bug, dawgfan and Lathum, at least.
I was feeling moderately optimistic about this game until I saw Myles Jack go off on offense.

Strictly on paper, I think the Huskies should win - you look at how they compare in ratings by Sagarin, FEI, S&P and F+, and all of them have Washington rated higher by several spots.

But there's some concern about how Washington has managed on the road - a bit overblown in my opinion, but the meltdown at ASU earlier this year was a head-scratcher.

Really comes down to:
- Can the Huskies give Keith Price reasonable time in the pocket?
- Can the Huskies get pressure on Brett Hundley and wrap him up when they flush him?
- Can Bishop Sankey exploit a mediocre Bruin run defense?
- Can the Huskies keep Myles Jack from shredding them?

BishopMVP

11-11-2013, 07:32 PM

Some fun Wednesday night MACtion this week. 9-1 Ball State at Northern Illinois.

tarcone

11-11-2013, 08:05 PM

Iowa gets their 2nd bye to prep for Michigan and Nebraska. I think we get one, possibly both if we can run the ball.

Crapshoot

11-11-2013, 08:17 PM

Stanford and USC should be a good game, I think USC looks a lot better under Ed Oregon, and they've played Stanford reasonably well the last couple of years.

General Mike

11-11-2013, 08:23 PM

Rutgers is gonna lose to Cincinnati. Kyle Flood is gonna get axed? I hope so.

RomaGoth

11-11-2013, 08:26 PM

Logan

11-11-2013, 10:05 PM

Rutgers is gonna lose to Cincinnati. Kyle Flood is gonna get axed? I hope so.

His new stance on recruiting sure as hell should dictate it even before Saturday.

Atocep

11-11-2013, 10:12 PM

His new stance on recruiting sure as hell should dictate it even before Saturday.

I saw he's taking the no visits stance. That doesn't really work in today's college football (outside of a handful of teams that can get away with it).

Matthean

11-11-2013, 10:19 PM

Not sure if this was referenced in another thread, but I continue to be amused by Ohio State in all it's splendor:

Ohio State WR: Buckeyes would 'wipe the field' with Tide, Noles - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24219379/ohio-state-wr-buckeyes-would-wipe-the-field-with-tide-noles)

:lol:

I can't stand the SEC, but it is easily the best conference in the country right now and has been for several years. The idea that Ohio State would even be competitive against Alabama is comical.

I know Stanford has the edge, but I would love to see Oregon play OSU. I don't even think Oregon would win by default, but Oregon can score, and I don't think OSU's defense is that elite yet from a physical standpoint. But seriously, OSU beat NW and Iowa by ten points. Nobody has been within 14 of FSU. If a physical team like Wisconsin can give OSU a run, I'm pretty sure 'Bama will be more than OK. :D

dawgfan

11-12-2013, 12:01 AM

Stanford and USC should be a good game, I think USC looks a lot better under Ed Oregon, and they've played Stanford reasonably well the last couple of years.
Yep. Two fairly similar teams - very good defenses with physical and athletic front 7's, old-school offenses (though Stanford relies a lot more on power formations). USC is on a roll lately, enough so that I think they've got a shot even with their reduced number of healthy scholarship players.

Butter

11-12-2013, 07:04 AM

I know Stanford has the edge, but I would love to see Oregon play OSU. I don't even think Oregon would win by default, but Oregon can score, and I don't think OSU's defense is that elite yet from a physical standpoint. But seriously, OSU beat NW and Iowa by ten points. Nobody has been within 14 of FSU. If a physical team like Wisconsin can give OSU a run, I'm pretty sure 'Bama will be more than OK. :D

This already happened, in the 2010 Rose Bowl. Yes, I'm sure everything would be so "different" now. They're much better, we're much worse, blah blah blah.

I was trying to think if there were any recent Michigan players to say anything stupid in public that would have an actual impact to action on the field, unlike what Spencer said which is basically the equivalent of "I have confidence in our team."

I was trying to find an instance (http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2013/10/michigan_state_personal_for_fi.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WolverinesSports+%28Michigan+Wolverines+Sports%29), but it was so (http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2013/10/michigan_state_coach_mark_dant_83.html) Hart... I mean hard. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6455_8FsJOM)

Matthean

11-12-2013, 08:31 AM

This already happened, in the 2010 Rose Bowl. Yes, I'm sure everything would be so "different" now. They're much better, we're much worse, blah blah blah.

I was trying to think if there were any recent Michigan players to say anything stupid in public that would have an actual impact to action on the field, unlike what Spencer said which is basically the equivalent of "I have confidence in our team."

I was trying to find an instance (http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2013/10/michigan_state_personal_for_fi.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WolverinesSports+%28Michigan+Wolverines+Sports%29), but it was so (http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2013/10/michigan_state_coach_mark_dant_83.html) Hart... I mean hard. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6455_8FsJOM)

2010 has no real impact on this season. There's a big difference in having confidence in your team and going out and saying your team would wipe the floor against the two highest ranked teams. There's no equivalent about it.

MrBug708

11-12-2013, 08:36 AM

UCLA - UW, the blackout game. I'm going to it, should be interesting on how many people go. It's pretty foolish to schedule a 6pm game on a Friday in LA.

Should be a fun game. I think Mora really wants to beat UW.

Just saw Dawgfan's post. While statistically, UCLA isn't that great vs the ground game, their schedule has some pretty run first teams. Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, Arizona are all heavy run teams with great running QB's. It's going to be hard to stop them all where it positively helps their overall rankings.

I disagree on paper. I think UW's playcalling on offense is better right now. The play on the lines should be interesting. I think UCLA has a much better front 7 than UW and OL hasn't been a strength of either program close to a decade now, but can UCLA get Anthony Barr going again? What is UCLA going to do with Myles Jack? He looks like their best offensive threat right now, but he's still a defensive player first. Do we risk tiring him out on offense at the expense of the defense?

Butter

11-12-2013, 08:36 AM

2010 has no real impact on this season. There's a big difference in having confidence in your team and going out and saying your team would wipe the floor against the two highest ranked teams. There's no equivalent about it.

It's all in semantics and your own personal interpretation. I am personally shocked and surprised that you've attached the most negative connotation you could to it. Shocked AND surprised.

digamma

11-12-2013, 11:29 AM

On the ACC race, going into this week, Virginia (0-6) is the only team that doesn't have a chance to at least tie for the Coastal division title. There is the possibility of a 5 way tie at 5-3.

On the other side, Florida State has clinched.

Kodos

11-12-2013, 12:03 PM

Time for the Wisconsin game. Should be pretty painful to watch, especially without our top RB and with our best safety out. Honestly, I give us a better shot at beating OSU. Wisconsin is a bad matchup for us, both in football and basketball.

Chief Rum

11-12-2013, 12:47 PM

Not sure if this was referenced in another thread, but I continue to be amused by Ohio State in all it's splendor:

Ohio State WR: Buckeyes would 'wipe the field' with Tide, Noles - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24219379/ohio-state-wr-buckeyes-would-wipe-the-field-with-tide-noles)

:lol:

I can't stand the SEC, but it is easily the best conference in the country right now and has been for several years. The idea that Ohio State would even be competitive against Alabama is comical.

Easily? I wouldn't say that at all. I do think the SEC is still the best conference in the country, but the gap between it and the Pac 12 this year is not so much. This seems an odd year to proclaim it "easily the best conference in the country right now".

Of course, you could certainly could have made that statement in each of the last several years, and I don't think anyone doubts the SEC is, in general, the top conference in football. Well, outside of the "American" and "National" conferences. :D

Crapshoot

11-12-2013, 01:40 PM

Yep. Two fairly similar teams - very good defenses with physical and athletic front 7's, old-school offenses (though Stanford relies a lot more on power formations). USC is on a roll lately, enough so that I think they've got a shot even with their reduced number of healthy scholarship players.

Wonder if that depth issue will come into play late in games, especially if Stanford just continues to bust out 8-9 linemen and powersets out there. I think grinding USC down will be a key part of their plans.

dawgfan

11-12-2013, 01:57 PM

Wonder if that depth issue will come into play late in games, especially if Stanford just continues to bust out 8-9 linemen and powersets out there. I think grinding USC down will be a key part of their plans.
Possibly. I would think that the mobility of Hogan will prove even more important. The Trojans did a great job containing B.J. Denker, but Taylor Kelly gave them fits.

Another factor is how much does Gaffney have in the tank? After 45 hard-fought carries, how banged-up is he? How comfortable will Shaw be in subbing in Wilkerson, etc?

Crapshoot

11-12-2013, 03:00 PM

Possibly. I would think that the mobility of Hogan will prove even more important. The Trojans did a great job containing B.J. Denker, but Taylor Kelly gave them fits.

Another factor is how much does Gaffney have in the tank? After 45 hard-fought carries, how banged-up is he? How comfortable will Shaw be in subbing in Wilkerson, etc?

Yeah, Shaw has a wealth of depth at RB (Wilkerson, Barry Sanders Jr, Rickey Seale), and just apparently refuses to trust any of them - he used Stefon Taylor the same way last year. Don't know why he isn't more careful about their usage.

bob

11-14-2013, 07:59 PM

Georgia Tech needs to fire Paul Johnson. That is all.

JonInMiddleGA

11-14-2013, 08:20 PM

Georgia Tech needs to fire Paul Johnson. That is all.

Can't recruit, can't coach up ... that's a bad combination for a college coach no matter what scheme you run

JonInMiddleGA

11-14-2013, 09:38 PM

Not much sadder than watching GT play a team that has actual D1 caliber athletes.

digamma

11-14-2013, 11:51 PM

Georgia Tech needs to fire Paul Johnson. That is all.

I'm curious about this.

I turn 38 this weekend. Georgia Tech has won 8 games or more 11 times in my lifetime. Paul Johnson has 3 of those seasons and has a chance for a fourth this year.

I'm frustrated about tonight. I put my son to bed with tears in his eyes. But, we're asking Johnson to do a Yeoman's task. He's been given nothing he was promised on the academic side in terms of more majors and more academic exceptions.

Further there is no money to fire him and hire any coach worth a damn. A sure way to blow up the program is to bring in a retread willing to work for cheap.

2014 is going to be his most important year, most experienced team. If it is another 6 or 7 win season, I'm on board.

The difference I see between him and Gailey is that Gailey's teams would have packed it in down 20-0. This team didn't quit. They sucked for a lot of the game, but they didn't quit.

***And a big eff you to the Clemson scrubs and coaches laughing at the targeting penalty. That's all for me.

JonInMiddleGA

11-15-2013, 06:27 AM

This team didn't quit. They sucked for a lot of the game, but they didn't quit.

No, they didn't quit, that's true.

But they still sucked for a lot of the game ... and at some point enough of that is enough. One more loss to UGA should be his last.

Also, re: 8 wins this year ... that would require beating Georgia, but it would also come with beating 2 I-AA teams. The latter has to be at least a bit of an asterisk as far as the win total goes.

Butter

11-15-2013, 07:23 AM

Found it amusing that the ESPN sideline reporter said that at halftime CPJ said that they couldn't execute their offense because they were so deep on their side of the field. Yes, that was it. Field position was stopping you from dominating.

JonInMiddleGA

11-15-2013, 07:25 AM

CU Tiger

11-15-2013, 07:43 AM

There may not be a better play caller in the country than Paul Johnson, he has an amazing knack to continually self scout, and tease and floss plays throughout a game.

That said, his personality would make it difficult to recruit even to a more traditional scheme. He is one of the more smug individuals Ive ever met in my life.

PJ probably owes Kevin Steele a couple million dollars, because he single handedly extended his tenure for a few seasons.

For the first time in 5 years Clemson has a legitimate Defensive line, which is the key to stopping an option team.

Last night was cold as hell for South Carolina but a fun game none the less.

MrBug708

11-15-2013, 08:20 AM

Good Luck Husky fans!

digamma

11-15-2013, 09:01 AM

Couldn't possibly be the failure to recruit anybody who can catch a fucking kicked ball, nah.

All ACC kick off returner is out for the season. We're like down to the third or fourth string there.

Smelter had a bad night and got benched. Dumb comment by CPJ, but at the same time field position definitely huge played a part early.

Lathum

11-15-2013, 09:07 AM

really surprised Vegas has us as 3 point dogs on the road. They are basically saying we are even against UCLA.

Chief Rum

11-15-2013, 11:34 AM

really surprised Vegas has us as 3 point dogs on the road. They are basically saying we are even against UCLA.

Taking into consideration some key injuries to UCLA's line and running backs, and some of the inconsistency that has popped up in the Bruins gameplanning the past few weeks, I think of these teams as pretty evenly matched really, and tonight feels like a toss up. It should be a great game.

I do wish UCLA had Goines and White on the line and James in the backfield. Even if you also get back Kasen Williams, I still think the Bruins win that game going away, at the Rose Bowl at least. But with those injuries, they're a much less dominant offense.

Logan

11-15-2013, 04:43 PM

bob

11-15-2013, 05:23 PM

This is why Paul Johnson should be fired:

Since 2010 GT FB under CPJ’s leadership is:

0-4 vs. VT

0-4 vs. Miami

1-3 vs. Clemson

0-3 vs. UGA

1-14 vs. the “big-4” since the start of the 2010 season.

No other coach anywhere else survives that.

bhlloy

11-15-2013, 05:25 PM

A 6pm rose bowl game is really going to fuck up my commute, so that's great.

I think UCLA at home should be a TD favorite at least, but I haven't really watched Washington this season so I may be underselling them.

General Mike

11-15-2013, 05:53 PM

Stop me if you've heard this before...there's going to be a story coming out in the next few days citing player abuse by a Rutgers coach. This time it's defensive coordinator Dave Cohen. This will get Kyle Flood fired.

edit: Basically it is one kid's word (who has now left the team) against the coach, claiming both physical and verbal abuse. No other players are corroborating the story at this time, although "sources" say that the physical abuse claim, at least, is a lie. Won't matter. After Rice, they'll both be gone.

Not sure how I feel about this. I'm really down on Flood right now, and wanted a change at least at the D coordinator position, but I don't like the idea of kids making false abuse claims. I'll just go back to doing this

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Chief Rum

11-15-2013, 06:48 PM

I am unlikely to be around or on until either well into the game or after it ends, so best of luck for a good game, dawg fans.

Go Bruins!

Lathum

11-15-2013, 08:24 PM

This is not a good start

BillJasper

11-15-2013, 09:09 PM

I still don't understand this desire college teams have to out-ugly each other. Those UCLA uniforms look terrible.

mauchow

11-15-2013, 09:11 PM

Bad call against UW.

We'll see if Washington can get a safety here and get the ball back and make it a game before halftime..

cuervo72

11-15-2013, 09:24 PM

I still don't understand this desire college teams have to out-ugly each other. Those UCLA uniforms look terrible.

They do, and I couldn't tell which team was witch from a distance now that I've put the game on. Such classic unis for UCLA and they continue to eff them up.

MrBug708

11-16-2013, 01:53 AM

Frustrating game to be out, but I'm thrilled we won. I'd say half the stadium arrived in the second quarter. I hope they never do a Friday night game again. Surprised we got as many fans out as we did.

UCLA, while not the only team to have injuries, was down to one scholarship player at RB. (Not counting Jack as a RB). This goes with Hundley being the only scholarship QB.

Time to mix up the playbook with Jack. Teams obviously know what is coming. All it did was wear him down by the 4th quarter.

Miles looked pretty good. UCLA's DB's were atrocious.

On the trenches (OL and DL), 5 of the 8 players are true freshmen. Fuller was sat at halftime.

ASU really needs to lose tomorrow for me to feel comfortable. I don't think we lose to ASU at home.

The black uniforms didn't look great on the big screen (and I imagine on TV as well) but up close and person, they looked pretty nice. I bought one this week when I was in Westwood for the game. They just don't feel...UCLA. Back to the Light Blue/Gold for the last two games. UCLA is doing it because the players and fans want it. It's for one game or so, the old timers can deal with it.

USC is getting a lot of love. Way more than they should be. Can't believe that game got gameday.

CU Tiger

11-16-2013, 04:43 AM

Cyrus lookes really good when he was in.

mauchow

11-16-2013, 11:16 AM

Sorry, Kodos... I'm sure that wasn't the start that you were hoping for. This is not going to be pretty.

General Mike

11-16-2013, 11:42 AM

I give up. I wash my hands of this regime.

Kodos

11-16-2013, 12:15 PM

Sorry, Kodos... I'm sure that wasn't the start that you were hoping for. This is not going to be pretty.

Nope. Even more ugly than usual in this series. And that is saying something.

miked

11-16-2013, 12:16 PM

In the first quarter, RU gave up nearly 250 yards passing, CIN recovered an onside kick, Nova threw a pick, and we are currently down 31-7. Half the stadium has already emptied out. I know RU has the 25th best recruiting class, but we are consistently outcoached week in and out. This needs to change.

General Mike

11-16-2013, 12:20 PM

miked

11-16-2013, 02:10 PM

What a debacle. Though I hope these CIN QBs get their heads knocked around. Up by 40+ in the mid-late 4th Q, and they are throwing 40 yard bombs and celebrating so hard they are getting unsportsmanlike penalties. I am usually a fan of the "if you don't want to be run up on, play better" crowd, but at least don't celebrate like you just won the title game. I mean, 608 yards allowed (500 in the air) for the 4th time this season and 2nd time in 3 weeks. It can't get much worse.

larrymcg421

11-16-2013, 02:45 PM

Holy shit. An absolutely ridiculous diving catch in the UCF-Temple game that may have saved UCF's BCS chances.

larrymcg421

11-16-2013, 02:56 PM

Wow. Temple 3 and out (including a stupid TO that only saved time for UCF). Then the Temple D give up a 60 yard pass play with 10 seconds left. UCF kicks the FG to win.

Jon

11-16-2013, 03:01 PM

"Too bad I have no confidence in the AD to make a good hire."

I think Flood gets one more year with the proviso to get some new staff.

Unlike the past AD (who ended up making bad coaching hires) Herman has said performance and not money is the biggest factor.

General Mike

11-16-2013, 03:35 PM

mauchow

11-16-2013, 03:47 PM

So that UCF team is pretty underrated eh? Not sure which media person said this but time to retract that statement after hard fought win against Texas...I mean Temple.

Solecismic

11-16-2013, 04:31 PM

Not only does Michigan get to experience a dozen three-and-outs and a probable loss to a team that hasn't won a Big Ten game all year, but they get to lose to a team that has turned our star spangled banner into a clown suit.

Matthean

11-16-2013, 04:57 PM

I'm pretty sure the coaching staff might want to skip on talking to the media if this holds up. You could maybe sell a 24-21 loss, but 9-3 will be hard to swallow. Of course, the running game has been decent, but Gardner is his usual. Michigan gets a solid drive and he takes a sack for -13 yards.

Matthean

11-16-2013, 05:16 PM

NW shanks a punt for 7 yards deep in their territory. Michigan gains -1 yards and gets the FG. Man, I can't contain the excitement this game offers. :banghead:

mckerney

11-16-2013, 05:47 PM

NW shanks a punt for 7 yards deep in their territory. Michigan gains -1 yards and gets the FG. Man, I can't contain the excitement this game offers. :banghead:

At least that last FG was exciting.

Matthean

11-16-2013, 05:49 PM

9-9 in overtime. Yay? Michigan was 4th and 2 in FG range and went for it. They did not get it. They tied at the end instead of being able to win in the end.

dawgfan

11-16-2013, 05:59 PM

I am unlikely to be around or on until either well into the game or after it ends, so best of luck for a good game, dawg fans.
*sigh*

I really don't know what to think about Sark and road games any more. That was a terrible hole the Huskies dug for themselves, part of it their doing (not falling on an easy fumble recovery off of Jack), part of it the Bruins (great job knocking the ball loose from ASJ & Sankey), part of it terrible officiating (still waiting to see where that supposed "hands to the face" happened that wiped out a long UW TD).

UCLA is obviously talented, and they won the trenches. Myles Jack is a beast. The Bruins are clearly a very good team, especially considering the injuries.

But Washington didn't quit, and they showed why they are also a really good team, or at least can be when they aren't tripping over their own dicks. If Price hadn't gone down and our LT Micah Hatchie hadn't gone down, I think we had a shot at completing the comeback.

But we didn't, and now Sark is staring at the very real possibility of his 4th consecutive 7-win season. I don't know if the UW AD would have the stomach to can him if that happens, but he'll have a significant and vocal portion of the fanbase calling for his head.

On the plus side, we got a commitment from a stud 2015 DT today.

Schmidty

11-16-2013, 06:00 PM

Spartans smell Rosesl

Vince, Pt. II

11-16-2013, 06:05 PM

Holy shit. An absolutely ridiculous diving catch in the UCF-Temple game that may have saved UCF's BCS chances.

That catch was insane.

HerRealName

11-16-2013, 06:06 PM

On that Michigan FG before the end of regulation, should the snap have been held up until Northwestern had a chance to sub in as well? Maybe the game situation overrides that rule?

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:07 PM

Auburn is about to choke away a big lead. UGA now down 37-31 with 5 mins left and a shanked punt lets them start in Auburn territory. Unfuckingbelievable.

kingfc22

11-16-2013, 06:13 PM

I think Murray was down just before the goal line.

Matthean

11-16-2013, 06:13 PM

Spartans smell Rosesl

Good luck with OSU.

bhlloy

11-16-2013, 06:15 PM

That's the closest review I've ever seen. When you sync them up his knee is down one frame before the ball touches the line, but is that enough to overturn?

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:15 PM

He was down, but the lack of a reverse angle replay prevents the overturn

larrymcg421

11-16-2013, 06:16 PM

I think he was down as well, but I don't think they had a good angle to overturn it. It's one of those plays where the call on the field would've been upheld either way.

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:25 PM

Nick Marshall = Vad Lee with a much better OL?

Matthean

11-16-2013, 06:26 PM

Michigan wins in 3OTs. Lost is all of the god awfulness of it is that Hoke finally got smart and benched the corpse known as Toussaint and Michigan's running game was actually decent. Now if Gardner could turn into a QB and not merely be an athlete, Michigan might have an OK offense.

larrymcg421

11-16-2013, 06:27 PM

Holy shit!

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:27 PM

OMG !!!

kingfc22

11-16-2013, 06:28 PM

Wow. Georgia must have missed the Ravens/Bengals game. Knock it down!

bhlloy

11-16-2013, 06:33 PM

Unreal

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:34 PM

Umm ... this may get even goofier

bhlloy

11-16-2013, 06:35 PM

Got to get two shots here

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 06:39 PM

mauchow

11-16-2013, 08:40 PM

Those are the kind of hits (Bama on MSU) that need to go away. Should have been a penalty on the punt ( I think that was the play.. only watching in passing)

Matthean

11-16-2013, 09:05 PM

Bama will annihilate Auburn. You have to throw to beat Bama, Auburn can't come close to doing that well enough to come close. Calling it (and you can remind me of it): Marshall will have less than 150 net offense against Alabama.

Maybe this year, but historically the team that runs against the Tide is the one who gives them fits. My question is really more on Auburn's defense.

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 09:34 PM

Maybe this year, but historically the team that runs against the Tide is the one who gives them fits. My question is really more on Auburn's defense.

This team is not their previous team's IMO. It's almost certainly the least of them at this point. Their secondary looks almost entirely reliant on the pass rush to save them (not watching tonight, speaking about the season in general)

Matthean

11-16-2013, 09:55 PM

You'll need pro level talent in that passing game and certainly at QB to pull if off.

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 10:15 PM

Helluva riverboat gambler call by Crazy Ed at USC. They deserve to win after that one I think.

Solecismic

11-16-2013, 10:20 PM

We underestimate the value of playing at home in college football. These are kids, and the numbers show that a road win is about 30% more impressive than a home win. Stanford got Oregon at home and made a statement; it's not really the same team on the road this week.

JonInMiddleGA

11-16-2013, 10:50 PM

I wonder how many teams have ended up being ranked in the top 25 after firing their HC during the season? Could very well happen to USC tomorrow.

MrBug708

11-16-2013, 11:54 PM

Shaw is not going to last at Stanford in the long run if this is how he is going to coach Stanford. This team is very senior laden and he's lost two games to teams he has no business losing to.

I did enjoy watching USC rush the field. They've fallen a long ways to the point where they are rushing the field now.

/Annoyed Bruin fan rant over

Good win for the Trojans.

Matthean

11-17-2013, 12:32 AM

Shaw is still riding on what Harbaugh built even though Luck is gone. It will be interesting to see how he does here on out.

MrBug708

11-17-2013, 12:48 AM

Im only slightly positive, but I think they are losing 22 seniors in the 2 deep. Who knows how accurate that number is though.

SirFozzie

11-17-2013, 06:40 AM

So, Duke's coach for coach of the year? Normally I'd be talking about BC's new coach turning around a 2-10 season to at least bowl eligibility with two games to go.. but when you say Duke is 8-2, you think the Basketball team is off to a rough start, not the football team having a monster year

CU Tiger

11-17-2013, 08:12 AM

Cutcliff has done an amazing job for sure.
I just wonder what the ceiling is there, I suspect they are VERY close to it right now

Wolfpack

11-17-2013, 09:24 AM

Cutcliff has done an amazing job for sure.
I just wonder what the ceiling is there, I suspect they are VERY close to it right now

Cutcliffe is no different from Grobe at Wake Forest. They've both done tremendous jobs with restrictions and limitations that are almost unfair at this level, even in a weaker conference like the ACC. But, you're right. This is about as high as Duke could ever rise, a true lightning-in-a-bottle season, much like Wake in 2006. Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Stanford probably are the only comparables and at least the first two can sell the conferences they play in while Stanford can tap into the California talent base and get great players who are also good in school. Duke and Wake? The conference is less than desirable, they have to fight not only with the three big state schools for recruits, but pretty much everyone in the SEC east of Mississippi, and the tradition is well buried in the past (in Duke's case) or never existed (in Wake's case). So, yeah, they've done tremendous things there, but there just aren't ingredients in place to do this any more than once in a while.

I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing for the ACC that Duke is thisclose to being FSU's opponent in the CCG. On the one hand, having a program down so long and so much as Duke's has been become a contender should in theory mean the really bad bottom of the ACC will no longer be as bad and improve the overall depth of the league, but on the other hand, the national perception will be "ACCLOLDuke!"

At any rate, a lot of State fans are wishing like hell they had Cutcliffe right now, so that's something. Quite a few are ready to show Doeren the door after one year and I can sort of empathize. We all knew there would be challenges in dealing with the dearth of talent left by the last coaching staff being forced into a new offensive system that made no sense with the players on hand, but this team isn't really losing and showing growth or promise in the process. This team is losing and losing badly every week. Even the worst teams during the dreadful Tom Reed years in the early 1980s won a conference game or two. This team may be the first winless Pack team in the ACC since 1959. :(

Thomkal

11-17-2013, 09:30 AM

Coastal Carolina bounced back strongly after its first loss of the season, ending its Big South Conference schedule with a big win over Presbyterian 46-13. They then got an early Xmas present-Charleston Southern came out flat against Gardner-Webb and could not come all the way back. So that leaves Coastal in a three-way tie for the Conference title (along with Liberty) and automatic bid to the playoffs.

Charleston has one conference game remaining...at home against Liberty. If CSU wins, they get the Conference title. However if Liberty wins, Coastal will claim the crown. Liberty very nearly beat Coastal this season, so they can certainly beat CSU. Coastal likely gets an at-large bid anyway, but it would be nice to not have to worry about not getting one.

I find myself with another FCS team to root for late in the season, quite unexpectedly. The college closest to my hometown is Marist in Poughkeepsie NY. They are in the fifth season of membership in the Pioneer League, and with a late season win streak after being at .500, they have clinched a tie with Butler for the Conference championship, which is their first.

In bizarre news last week, San Diego (yes a California team in the same league as a NY team) after beating both Butler and Marist this season, announced they would be forfeiting the Pioneer Conference Championship and not go to the playoffs due to violations in its football program. Butler and Marist did not play each other this season, so the tiebreaker is complicated. If I understand it correctly though, I think Marist might win the tiebreaker and thus make the playoffs as well. That would be just crazy.

MrBug708

11-17-2013, 09:44 AM

I've never heard Wake Forest in the same.breath as Duke and Northwestern and especially Stanford, as far as academics go.

mauchow

11-17-2013, 09:51 AM

Wisconsin demolishes Indiana 51-3 yesterday. 676 total yards vs 224 yards. This is also the first time this year Indiana didn't score at least 28 points in a game. Wisconsin's defense is pretty tough this year.

I'm looking forward to the possibility of playing Texas A&M in the Cap One Bowl or the outside shot at playing in a BCS Bowl.

Next week WIsconsin gets Minnesota which is there last opportunity to improve their status in the CPU Polls. If we can absolutely demolish them next week then I can see some voters jumping us over UCF (if they don't already later today), NIU, Oklahoma and LSU.

USC is likely to jump us if they keep going crazy but it won't matter a whole lot as they have to play UCLA yet and UCLA has to play ASU and whoever comes out in that has to play Oregon. So for Wisconsin's sake if everyone just beats each other up that will help WI in three ways. UCLA beats USC, ASU beats UCLA, Oregon beats ASU. That's three helps for WI. :)

I'm sure I've mentioned it before.. but I love College Football! During the Auburn game my wife was skyping with her mom and sister. The sister is an Auburn Alum and during the span of their conversation Georgia had made their miraculous comeback and they parted after the TD for Georgia and I started to rub it in. Five minutes later I get a text message back "War Damn Eagle!!!!". I had to laugh.

Fun stuff. Too bad Nebraska has no coaching discipline (5 turnovers, really?). MSU is extremely opportunistic and I'm just not sure they stand a chance against OSU in the B1G CCG. But that's why they play the game. If they win that game, good for them and best of luck in the Rose Bowl. If they lose, Wisconsin likely sneaks ahead of them in the BCS and snags a BCS Bowl ahead of them... which of course would piss them off. Again. :)

CU Tiger

11-17-2013, 09:53 AM

Cutcliffe is no different from Grobe at Wake Forest. They've both done tremendous jobs with restrictions and limitations that are almost unfair at this level, even in a weaker conference like the ACC. But, you're right. This is about as high as Duke could ever rise, a true lightning-in-a-bottle season, much like Wake in 2006. Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Stanford probably are the only comparables and at least the first two can sell the conferences they play in while Stanford can tap into the California talent base and get great players who are also good in school. Duke and Wake? The conference is less than desirable, they have to fight not only with the three big state schools for recruits, but pretty much everyone in the SEC east of Mississippi, and the tradition is well buried in the past (in Duke's case) or never existed (in Wake's case). So, yeah, they've done tremendous things there, but there just aren't ingredients in place to do this any more than once in a while.

I can't tell if it's a good or bad thing for the ACC that Duke is thisclose to being FSU's opponent in the CCG. On the one hand, having a program down so long and so much as Duke's has been become a contender should in theory mean the really bad bottom of the ACC will no longer be as bad and improve the overall depth of the league, but on the other hand, the national perception will be "ACCLOLDuke!"

At any rate, a lot of State fans are wishing like hell they had Cutcliffe right now, so that's something. Quite a few are ready to show Doeren the door after one year and I can sort of empathize. We all knew there would be challenges in dealing with the dearth of talent left by the last coaching staff being forced into a new offensive system that made no sense with the players on hand, but this team isn't really losing and showing growth or promise in the process. This team is losing and losing badly every week. Even the worst teams during the dreadful Tom Reed years in the early 1980s won a conference game or two. This team may be the first winless Pack team in the ACC since 1959. :(

I agree on Cut, sort of.
Without typing a bunch with one hand in a cast I'll line itme some key differences I see.
- Duke has substantially more money available than Wake.
- Duke has a national brand and cache based on Coach K..if they can ever find a way to cross promote that...
- Yeah the academics are high but Duke has a reduced program in place to allow otherwise non qualifiers
- Cut is an offensive mastermind, Grobe was sharp but Cut is a different level.
- Relating to the last point, Grobe depended on running and midline veer and misdirection which was a dated concept that was difficult to recruit to, where Cut is a top level QB coach (see the reason PM went to UT) and has roots in the early spread and the Mumme air raid. Easier to find slightly undersized fast WR than grow into OL.

All that said...I just dont think Duke can convince NC kids to thumb their nose at UNC and NCSU to play ball there and they need in state talent to ever succeed.

Regarding Doeren, I am not sure what to make of him yet.
- TOB left the cover not just bare but empty.
- NCSU looks like a team that put a ton of eut it this wayffort into shocking Clemson early and when they failed they seemed to have shot their wad and never recovered.
- A good friend and ACC coach put it this way. Doeren is great at maintaining what is in place and tweaking the small and smoothing the edges. Kill built NIU and Doeren refined it, polished it, and kept it going. TOB crushed NCSU and Doeren is keeping it right there.

I've been shocked by the feedback I've heard on the recruiting trail about him directly. He has some recruiters on that staff, but he is doing himself no favors with high school coaches. For example if you are going to ell a HS coach, "If you really want that kid to go to WS State and never have a chance to make anything of himself as a result." (supposedly a word for word direct quote) It is probably a good idea to make sure said HS head coach didnt graduate from WS State...

Wolfpack

11-17-2013, 10:28 AM

I've never heard Wake Forest in the same.breath as Duke and Northwestern and especially Stanford, as far as academics go.

True, Wake probably isn't in that same echelon, but they still face similar challenges those other schools face being a private school at the BCS level of play.

Regarding Doeren, I am not sure what to make of him yet.
- TOB left the cover not just bare but empty.
- NCSU looks like a team that put a ton of eut it this wayffort into shocking Clemson early and when they failed they seemed to have shot their wad and never recovered.
- A good friend and ACC coach put it this way. Doeren is great at maintaining what is in place and tweaking the small and smoothing the edges. Kill built NIU and Doeren refined it, polished it, and kept it going. TOB crushed NCSU and Doeren is keeping it right there.

I've been shocked by the feedback I've heard on the recruiting trail about him directly. He has some recruiters on that staff, but he is doing himself no favors with high school coaches. For example if you are going to ell a HS coach, "If you really want that kid to go to WS State and never have a chance to make anything of himself as a result." (supposedly a word for word direct quote) It is probably a good idea to make sure said HS head coach didnt graduate from WS State...

I don't have the connections you've got to second anything you've said about Doeren, but I'm just not impressed with him in general right now. There's something that doesn't feel right about it. A lot of good coaching hires will show themselves in the first year because they'll be able to produce something that looks like potential even in the bad games, leading to positive vibes going forward. Doeren hasn't produced anything like that as far as I can tell. There were those first two drives against Louisiana Tech before Mitchell broke his foot, but there's been almost nothing since then. The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much). I'm really hoping that he can get the ship righted and that all this enthusiasm he's tried to drum up with his recruiting does pay off in time, but it's a very precarious position for the program right now. Competing for third or fourth in the Atlantic Division every year is not the ceiling that was envisioned when we built all those improvements to Carter-Finley in the past 10 years. State's never had a rich tradition in football, true, but there was a window where they could have made something happen with FSU and Clemson hobbling through the past decade. I think that window's closing now, though.

MrBug708

11-17-2013, 11:16 AM

What is that disadvantage that they face, being a private school?

Eaglesfan27

11-17-2013, 12:25 PM

That was a very exciting win. Can't wait to see how the last few games play out.

mauchow

11-17-2013, 12:42 PM

Wisconsin jumps OU, UCF and LSU in the coaches poll. Two more than I thought they would this week. Sweet deal. THat will give us a nice push, especially if the Harris Poll emulates Coaches.

mckerney

11-17-2013, 01:06 PM

What is that disadvantage that they face, being a private school?

Probably the same difficulty getting kids into school that Miami has.

dawgfan

11-17-2013, 01:28 PM

Im only slightly positive, but I think they are losing 22 seniors in the 2 deep. Who knows how accurate that number is though.
Might be true, but you have to be careful when looking at their depth chart - they're like Notre Dame in that they don't list guys by eligibility, so a lot of guys listed as "Sr" on their roster have redshirted and have another year of eligibility.

CU Tiger

11-17-2013, 03:22 PM

True, Wake probably isn't in that same echelon, but they still face similar challenges those other schools face being a private school at the BCS level of play.

I don't have the connections you've got to second anything you've said about Doeren, but I'm just not impressed with him in general right now. There's something that doesn't feel right about it. A lot of good coaching hires will show themselves in the first year because they'll be able to produce something that looks like potential even in the bad games, leading to positive vibes going forward. Doeren hasn't produced anything like that as far as I can tell. There were those first two drives against Louisiana Tech before Mitchell broke his foot, but there's been almost nothing since then. The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much). I'm really hoping that he can get the ship righted and that all this enthusiasm he's tried to drum up with his recruiting does pay off in time, but it's a very precarious position for the program right now. Competing for third or fourth in the Atlantic Division every year is not the ceiling that was envisioned when we built all those improvements to Carter-Finley in the past 10 years. State's never had a rich tradition in football, true, but there was a window where they could have made something happen with FSU and Clemson hobbling through the past decade. I think that window's closing now, though.

I've always thought NCSU was a sleeping giant with tons of potential.
The scary thing to me is Doeren seems to be web based ranking recruiting. The whole scout/rivals/247 ranking system is flawed if not down right corrupt. In any given year there are always prospects who get an elevated profile because of who is high school coach is, or because he is a good kid, or a given analyst made a connection with the kid and wants to see that kid "escape"...
There are a few "high ranked" kids on the State board that folks at other ACC schools say they wouldnt want as a walk on. State doesnt (or more aptly put, shouldnt) have to recruit that way. I am not sure if the style is due to lack of evaluation ability or laziness....neither is a good sign for a young coach though.

I will say this however vaguely I can. There is a certain coach I have frequent access to who as recently as 11 months ago was very intimate with the happenings in Raleigh, and still has friends there. He says many inside the program are not very comfortable there and looking to jump.

All that said, FSU is going to embarrass a lot of folks this year and next.

CraigSca

11-17-2013, 04:09 PM

I would love to see an FSU/Duke ACC Championship. Would probably be the only time I'd ever root fro FSU.

CU Tiger

11-17-2013, 09:44 PM

I would love to see an FSU/Duke ACC Championship. Would probably be the only time I'd ever root fro FSU.

Line of the day. The over/under on that game is 70. To be fair 3 points are being assigned to Duke in that scenario

Matthean

11-17-2013, 09:47 PM

Somebody today tried to talk me into Duke making a game of it. Um, no.

Butter

11-18-2013, 07:11 AM

The first quarter annihilation at FSU was probably the most embarrassed I've been in a while as a State fan (and given the number of low points I've watched in Pack athletics since 1990, that's saying much).

To be fair, FSU has dominated everyone (except maybe BC). I really don't understand how they are not #1. Apparently if you are in the SEC, you can lay an egg in a road game and it really doesn't matter, even if that team is terrible. But if you are in any other conference and you lay an egg in a road game, you get jumped.

Florida State has just dominated everyone. Every game they have played it seems like they are up 21-0 or 28-0 by end of the first quarter. They are making it look easy.

Butter

11-18-2013, 07:13 AM

I find myself with another FCS team to root for late in the season, quite unexpectedly. The college closest to my hometown is Marist in Poughkeepsie NY. They are in the fifth season of membership in the Pioneer League, and with a late season win streak after being at .500, they have clinched a tie with Butler for the Conference championship, which is their first.

In bizarre news last week, San Diego (yes a California team in the same league as a NY team) after beating both Butler and Marist this season, announced they would be forfeiting the Pioneer Conference Championship and not go to the playoffs due to violations in its football program. Butler and Marist did not play each other this season, so the tiebreaker is complicated. If I understand it correctly though, I think Marist might win the tiebreaker and thus make the playoffs as well. That would be just crazy.

I was hoping that Dayton would win the conference especially with the playoff bid for the Pioneer starting up this year, but they just aren't quite as dominant as they used to be.

Funny that Butler and Marist's loss both came to San Diego, and they both beat everyone else they played.

The tiebreaker says this:

If the teams are still tied, the league will determine the automatic qualifier based on the average
rank of the tied teams using the seven computer rankings/ratings utilized by the Gridiron Power
Index plus the Simple Rating System (if the SRS is publicly available prior to selection weekend).
[Updated 11/14/2013]
 Clarification: Each tied team will be ranked according to their position in each poll. For
example, if Team A is ranked 139 and Team B is ranked 159 in a particular ranking/rating…
Team A is ranked “first” for the purposes of this tiebreaker. Once the ranking for each
team is determined, they will be averaged and the team with the better average will be the
AQ.

JonInMiddleGA

11-18-2013, 07:31 AM

To be fair, FSU has dominated everyone (except maybe BC). I really don't understand how they are not #1. Apparently if you are in the SEC, you can lay an egg in a road game and it really doesn't matter, even if that team is terrible. But if you are in any other conference and you lay an egg in a road game, you get jumped.

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

Ultimately though, to be The Man somebody has got to beat The Man.
And that hasn't happened yet this year.

gstelmack

11-18-2013, 08:23 AM

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

The concern is that there is bias even in those rankings. The SEC beats up on each other, but because it's the SEC, everyone thinks they aren't bad losses. As mentioned, other teams get a loss, they are screwed, but if you're in the SEC you can lose your DIVISION (let alone conference) and still make the national championship game.

I am SO looking forward to a playoff with all the key conference champions involved.

Butter

11-18-2013, 08:40 AM

Bama has three wins over teams that are still ranked, FSU has one (and will still only have one two weeks from now)

Ultimately though, to be The Man somebody has got to beat The Man.
And that hasn't happened yet this year.

When The Man's side of the conference and their OOC schedule is filled with patsies, that makes it pretty tough for anyone ELSE to be able to do it.

Auburn is artificially high right now, just because of SEC. Texas A&M, same. LSU, same.

I mean, the two times in the past 2 years that Alabama played a team with a legitimate spread offense, they lost one and had a close game on the road in the other.

I would quite enjoy seeing Alabama run the gauntlet of the Big 12, where it seems that every team except Texas runs the spread, and runs it effectively. It is awfully hard to run through that conference because every week if your defense makes a few mistakes, you are down 35 points. In the SEC, if your defense makes a few mistakes, you only win 24-16 instead of 31-7.

panerd

11-18-2013, 08:42 AM

The concern is that there is bias even in those rankings. The SEC beats up on each other, but because it's the SEC, everyone thinks they aren't bad losses. As mentioned, other teams get a loss, they are screwed, but if you're in the SEC you can lose your DIVISION (let alone conference) and still make the national championship game.

I am SO looking forward to a playoff with all the key conference champions involved.

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

Anyways there are still 3 weeks left. If you go back to the thread from 2 weeks ago it was OMG Stanford is getting screwed. This stuff seems to work itself out every year. IMO Baylor and Bama aren't going to make it and we likely will see Ohio State vs. Florida State. Who knows though maybe Florida or Duke will pull one out or Michigan State or Michigan?

panerd

11-18-2013, 08:45 AM

When The Man's side of the conference and their OOC schedule is filled with patsies, that makes it pretty tough for anyone ELSE to be able to do it.

Auburn is artificially high right now, just because of SEC. Texas A&M, same. LSU, same.

I mean, the two times in the past 2 years that Alabama played a team with a legitimate spread offense, they lost one and had a close game on the road in the other.

I would quite enjoy seeing Alabama run the gauntlet of the Big 12, where it seems that every team except Texas runs the spread, and runs it effectively. It is awfully hard to run through that conference because every week if your defense makes a few mistakes, you are down 35 points. In the SEC, if your defense makes a few mistakes, you only win 24-16 instead of 31-7.

LOL. The guantlet of Iowa State, WV, KU, TCU, and Texas Tech? Didn't Ole Miss beat Texas at their house? There are some counter arguements to be made to the SEC (Pac-12 maybe?) but the Big 12?

(And I guess Mizzou only counts when the argument is being made can use them to prop up the Big 12. Bama blew Mizzou's spread out last year and will possbily play them again in three weeks)

JonInMiddleGA

11-18-2013, 09:02 AM

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

Especially when -- as will happen sooner or later -- 3 of the 4 teams end up being from the SEC (or even just 2, with 2 others from a single conference)

Remember kids, there's no limitations on who gets those plum spots, no guarantees for anybody anymore.

we likely will see Ohio State vs. Florida State.

Dear Lord, what an abomination that would be. FSU by, hmm, 50.

cuervo72

11-18-2013, 09:20 AM

LOL. The guantlet of Iowa State, WV, KU, TCU, and Texas Tech? Didn't Ole Miss beat Texas at their house? There are some counter arguements to be made to the SEC (Pac-12 maybe?) but the Big 12?

(And I guess Mizzou only counts when the argument is being made can use them to prop up the Big 12. Bama blew Mizzou's spread out last year and will possbily play them again in three weeks)

Ole Miss beating Texas was a "good" win. I mean, relatively anyway. It's at least against someone else from a real conference. Their other OOC wins were SE Missouri St, Troy, and Idaho. They're 7-3 and ranked, which makes some go "look! the SEC West is even tougher, Ole Miss is good!" But really all they've done is snap up a couple of wins in the SEC that had to go to somebody.

Is there any place that has a list of BCS conf teams that have wins over other, OOC BCS teams? I'm tempted to patch one together but don't know if it is really worth the effort. I mean, ok - Auburn has one, vs WSU (not a good team). Bama has one, against VT. A&M doesn't have one. LSU beat TCU.

Of course, FSU currently has none (UF pending), tOSU has..CAL (CAL put up 34 against them? lol). Baylor has none and won't. Oregon has Virginia and Tennessee (oh boy - but at least it's something, I guess). Clemson has Georgia. Mizzou has...Indiana.

So yeah...OOC scheduling is largely shit all around. So you're basically left with an eye test and reputation. Not much you can do. And yeah, 4 vs 2, we'll still get the same arguments.

Thomkal

11-18-2013, 10:08 AM

I was hoping that Dayton would win the conference especially with the playoff bid for the Pioneer starting up this year, but they just aren't quite as dominant as they used to be.

Funny that Butler and Marist's loss both came to San Diego, and they both beat everyone else they played.

The tiebreaker says this:

Originally Posted by The Tiebreaker
If the teams are still tied, the league will determine the automatic qualifier based on the average
rank of the tied teams using the seven computer rankings/ratings utilized by the Gridiron Power
Index plus the Simple Rating System (if the SRS is publicly available prior to selection weekend).
[Updated 11/14/2013]
 Clarification: Each tied team will be ranked according to their position in each poll. For
example, if Team A is ranked 139 and Team B is ranked 159 in a particular ranking/rating…
Team A is ranked “first” for the purposes of this tiebreaker. Once the ranking for each
team is determined, they will be averaged and the team with the better average will be the
AQ.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah that was the part of the tiebreaker I didn't understand/able to figure out. :) I don't know if they will have to wait until all the other conference games are over or not. There's a couple left this weekend.

Lathum

11-18-2013, 11:18 AM

Why would a human playoff committee eliminate the supposed human SEC bias that exists in the polls? Never understood why anyone thinks this process will be any different than the BCS outside of there being 4 teams instead of 2. We are just going to hear the same arguements again next year.

This

It was the same when they went to 68 teams in the NCAA tournament. The 69th team will bitch.

With the current set up the 5th team will bitch. If you take the BCS standings as a barometor the 4 teams are Baylor, Bama, FSU, and OSU. Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong? Or the undefeated non BCS team will bitch. Go to 8 team playoff and the 9th team will bitch, etc...

larrymcg421

11-18-2013, 11:24 AM

Lathum

11-18-2013, 11:26 AM

I've never understood that argument. Yes in a 4 team playoff, #5 will complain and in an 8 team playoff, #9 will complain, and so on. But I'd rather have #5, #9, #17, or whoever complain than #3.

oh I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that someone is always going to feel left out, and I think with a 4 team playoff many years that team will have a legit gripe.

panerd

11-18-2013, 11:29 AM

I've never understood that argument. Yes in a 4 team playoff, #5 will complain and in an 8 team playoff, #9 will complain, and so on. But I'd rather have #5, #9, #17, or whoever complain than #3.

I mean, under that line of thought, why do we even pick two teams? Why not just go back to picking 1 team as the champion. Then you could say to people who don't like that, even if we pick two teams, #3 will complain.

I agree that 4 is better than 2 and that 8 is better than 4. I just was making the point that choosing 4 teams isn't going to clear up the supposed SEC bias at all. And like JiMGa pointed out it could actually get worse. Think LSU vs Bama was bad what happens if 2 or 3 SEC teams make up the final 4? I don't see how the committee will be any different than the BCS in that regard.

Butter

11-18-2013, 11:52 AM

I thought the worst was LSU as a 2-loss team making the National Championship game in 2007.

General Mike

11-18-2013, 11:54 AM

What are some good offerings to make to the football gods?

JonInMiddleGA

11-18-2013, 12:58 PM

I thought the worst was LSU as a 2-loss team making the National Championship game in 2007.

Not sure who else goes there however ...

Voters had Ohio State and LSU as 1-2, Va Tech 5/6
Computers had VaTech 1, LSU 2, Ohio State 3

Only 2 teams appeared in the top 3 of both metrics.

HomerSimpson98

11-18-2013, 01:46 PM

What are some good offerings to make to the football gods?

Lane Kiffin. But thats already been done.

BishopMVP

11-18-2013, 11:53 PM

Not sure who else goes there however ...

Voters had Ohio State and LSU as 1-2, Va Tech 5/6
Computers had VaTech 1, LSU 2, Ohio State 3

Only 2 teams appeared in the top 3 of both metrics.LSU also beat Virginia Tech head to head 48-7. Wasn't a hard call to pick between them once they were the remaining two options to play OSU.

Matthean

11-19-2013, 07:54 AM

Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong?

They have a loss, so no.

Logan

11-19-2013, 10:56 AM

On that Michigan FG before the end of regulation, should the snap have been held up until Northwestern had a chance to sub in as well? Maybe the game situation overrides that rule?

Mailbag: We Should Have Been Screwed, Funk Position Paper | mgoblog (http://mgoblog.com/content/mailbag-we-should-have-been-screwed-funk-position-paper)

Wait, substitution. Wait. Wait, what?

Yo Brian,

So when the bearded lady rushed into the center ring to launch the football out of the cannon through the flaming uprights at the end of the Evanston Circus, Michigan obviously made a substitution. Northwestern did not make a substitution, but they, according to the Rules, could have. If they did, it seems like that would have taken more time before the official gave the ready for play, and potentially wasted enough time to run the clock out. In this parallel universe game which is crazier than the actual circus which unfolded, does Michigan get to attempt the field goal? How are the rules applied in that situation (which thankfully did not happen)?

Eddie

We should have been screwed. The NCAA rulebook has a specific mention of this very scenario:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:30. Facing fourth down and three, Team A gives no indication as to its next play until the game clock reads 0:10. They then rush their field goal unit onto the field, and Team B then hurries to respond.

RULING: The umpire moves to the ball to prevent the snap until Team B has had a reasonable opportunity to get its field-goal defense unit onto the field. The umpire will step away when he judges that the defense has had enough time. If the game clock reads 0:00 before the ball is snapped after the umpire steps away, the half is over.

That is in blue along with various other new rules (like "minimum time for spiking the ball") this year, so it must have just been added. If Fitz tried to substitute, the rulebook says that the refs have to let him and the clock would then run out.

This is of course terrible since it prevents the sort of exciting thing that happened against Northwestern and replaces it with the clock running out because the defense can't get aligned in time and should be immediately stricken in the name of fun… except maybe it doesn't exist?

Game ref Bill LeMonnier:

“When a team is coming out and it’s the last play of the game and they substitute with their field-goal team, the defense is not given the opportunity,” referee Bill LeMonnier said. “Usually there’s match-up time on substitutions. When it’s the field-goal attempt like that on the last play of the half, then there’s no match-up given.”

This is in direct contradiction of the rulebook. So… yeah. I don't know. The only thing that may reconcile these two points of view is the rulebook stating that the team getting the FG unit out there spent 20 seconds doing nothing, whereas Michigan was clearly going GO GO GO as soon as Gallon was tackled.

Spiritually, if you can't get your FG block team on the field in that situation and the other team can get the play off, screw your field goal block team. Fire drills forever

Lathum

11-19-2013, 11:03 AM

They have a loss, so no.

So by your criteria Norther Illinois and Fresno State belong in.

And Bama would have been out the last 2 seasons.

Butter

11-19-2013, 11:10 AM

Lathum

11-19-2013, 11:22 AM

I agree with Matthean, Oregon deserves to be #5 right now. If not lower.

NIU and Fresno are not BCS teams, and are clearly not playing at the same level as the rest of the top 15.

In 2011 and 2012, there was only 1 undefeated team... LSU in 2011 and Notre Dame in 2012, so your hypothetical makes no sense.

Neither does his comment that Oregon shouldn't be in a playoff because they have a loss.

Had he elaborated and made a point other than them having a loss maybe I could buy it, but having a loss can't and shouldn't automatically eliminate you from post season.

Butter

11-19-2013, 11:33 AM

It should if there are 4 other BCS unbeaten teams and there are 4 playoff spots. I think that was his point.

JonInMiddleGA

11-19-2013, 11:34 AM

It should if there are 4 other BCS unbeaten teams and there are 4 playoff spots. I think that was his point.

+1

Lathum

11-19-2013, 11:37 AM

he certainly didn't word it that way.

JonInMiddleGA

11-19-2013, 11:40 AM

he certainly didn't word it that way.

{scratches head} But you had just stipulated four teams

If you take the BCS standings as a barometor the 4 teams are Baylor, Bama, FSU, and OSU. Does anyone thing Oregon really doesn't belong?

And no, if you're looking at which four belong in a playoff scenario involving the top 4 teams, right now Oregon does not belong in that group.

They might end up in that group by season's end, but today, they're aren't in it.

Lathum

11-19-2013, 11:45 AM

I get that, my original point was more that there is always going to be a team that feels left out, correctly or incorrectly. Now I get that Oregon has a loss, and if you want to use that as an eliminator then fine, but if you don't think they are every bit as talented as those other 4 teams you don't watch much Oregon football. I would conceed Bama and FSU are likely better, Baylor you can argue, and tOSU is in no way better than Oregon.

Eaglesfan27

11-19-2013, 11:46 AM

Lane Kiffin. But thats already been done.

:D

JonInMiddleGA

11-19-2013, 11:54 AM

Butter

11-19-2013, 12:05 PM

We may well get the Oregon / Ohio State matchup in the Rose Bowl again, so we'll be able to address one of your points directly.

Lathum

11-19-2013, 12:23 PM

We may well get the Oregon / Ohio State matchup in the Rose Bowl again, so we'll be able to address one of your points directly.

I have watched a lot of both teams, living in Ohio but being a PAC 12 fan and as long as Mariotta is healthy Oregon beats OSU going away. tOSUs defense just isn't very good. They have given up 35 to Illinois, 24 to Iowa, 30 to Northwestern, and 34 to Cal. The most points Oregon has given up was 38 to WSU, the next highest is 24 against a good Washington offense. tOSU has played 6 B10 games and given up 24 or more in four of those games. I think Oregons offense would have their way wit hthem.

Butter

11-19-2013, 12:48 PM

I have watched a lot of both teams, living in Ohio but being a PAC 12 fan and as long as Mariotta is healthy Oregon beats OSU going away. tOSUs defense just isn't very good. They have given up 35 to Illinois, 24 to Iowa, 30 to Northwestern, and 34 to Cal. The most points Oregon has given up was 38 to WSU, the next highest is 24 against a good Washington offense. tOSU has played 6 B10 games and given up 24 or more in four of those games. I think Oregons offense would have their way wit hthem.

I think they are better than you are giving them credit for. The difference in OSU's and Oregon's points allowed total for the year is about half a point per game. I would agree that if you watched the Illinois and Cal games, OSU doesn't look very good objectively. And Oregon has played a more difficult schedule. But I don't think it would be the blowout you are positing. As much as I dislike him, Urban Meyer is a pretty good football coach.

Matthean

11-19-2013, 07:51 PM

So by your criteria Norther Illinois and Fresno State belong in.

And Bama would have been out the last 2 seasons.

During the last two seasons 'Bama was in the Top 4 so they were worthy of being in a playoff. This year there are already four undefeated teams worthy of being in a playoff so there's no reason to justify Oregon being in a playoff.

And teams can complain about being left out, but the formula is simple, don't lose.

HerRealName

11-19-2013, 08:01 PM

Mailbag: We Should Have Been Screwed, Funk Position Paper | mgoblog (http://mgoblog.com/content/mailbag-we-should-have-been-screwed-funk-position-paper)

It looks like they've updated...

UPDATE: NEVERMIND the below, as I missed this section in the rulebook:

Late in the first half Team A is out of timeouts. A pass play on third down ends inbounds at the B-25 short of the line to gain with the game clock showing 0:10. Facing fourth down and three, Team A immediately hurries its field goal team onto the field. RULING: Team B should reasonably expect that Team A will attempt a field goal in this situationand should have its field-goal defense unit ready. The umpire will not stand over the ball, as there should be no issue of the defense being uncertain about the next play.

mgoblog is a fantastic site. I wish there was an OSU equivalent that dives into the games the way that they do.

dawgfan

11-19-2013, 08:18 PM

And teams can complain about being left out, but the formula is simple, don't lose.
I'd be more on-board with this if there was more standardization across conferences in terms of scheduling and alignment.

BishopMVP

11-19-2013, 11:56 PM

I get that, my original point was more that there is always going to be a team that feels left out, correctly or incorrectly.And in this case no one would buy it. I think the hierarchy is quite clear

Undefeated BCS teams
1-loss SEC teams
1-loss BCS teams
Legit undefeated non-BCS teams (think TCU, Boise or Cincinnati/Louisville in one of their good years)
2-loss SEC teams

The only time this hierarchy was skipped was when 2-loss LSU got in over 1-loss Virginia Tech, and there was a pretty big extenuating circumstance there (the 40+ point LSU H2H win). In fact, if Baylor/Ohio State both lost and it came to it I would expect a 1-loss Auburn team, or a 1-loss Missouri team that is coming off a victory over Alabama to jump ahead of Oregon.

RainMaker

11-20-2013, 12:14 AM

To be fair, FSU has dominated everyone (except maybe BC). I really don't understand how they are not #1. Apparently if you are in the SEC, you can lay an egg in a road game and it really doesn't matter, even if that team is terrible. But if you are in any other conference and you lay an egg in a road game, you get jumped.

Florida State has just dominated everyone. Every game they have played it seems like they are up 21-0 or 28-0 by end of the first quarter. They are making it look easy.

They should be #1. Only reason they aren't is that Alabama started there and apparently that's a reason for keeping them there. A system where being ranked higher before a game is played factors into who plays in the national championship.

dawgfan

11-20-2013, 01:29 AM

They should be #1. Only reason they aren't is that Alabama started there and apparently that's a reason for keeping them there. A system where being ranked higher before a game is played factors into who plays in the national championship.
That's not the "only reason"; fact is, most advanced metrics have these teams in a virtual deadlock. What tips the scales for most voters is a tougher SOS for Alabama. And whether you think it's fair or not, there's also undoubtedly some benefit of the doubt given to Alabama because of their recent run of success.

RainMaker

11-20-2013, 01:40 AM

Advanced metrics that are not allowed to account for margin of victory. Not so advanced.

Logan

11-20-2013, 11:40 AM

The Jameis Winston sexual assault investigation is getting a little hairier...

Statement: Police warned accuser about pursuing Jameis Winston matter | Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/statement-police-warned-accuser-about-pursuing-jameis-winston-matter/2153364)

dawgfan

11-20-2013, 12:34 PM

Advanced metrics that are not allowed to account for margin of victory. Not so advanced.
WTF are you talking about? FEI, S&P, Sagarin's measures other than Pure ELO have no such restrictions.

Matthean

11-20-2013, 07:05 PM

Devin Gardner says that he feels like Iowa hasn't changed their defensive scheme "probably since Iowa started playing football."

https://twitter.com/ChantelJennings/status/403211255113977857

JonInMiddleGA

11-20-2013, 07:57 PM

What tips the scales for most voters is a tougher SOS for Alabama.

Ding ding ding.

tarcone

11-20-2013, 08:04 PM

https://twitter.com/ChantelJennings/status/403211255113977857

I really dont know what to say.
Iowa is pretty vanilla. Prefer to do the same things, but try and do them well.
I did like this comment though:

Neal W. ‏@Nealius74 7h

@ChantelJennings Also, Gardner your inconsistency hasn't changed since you began playing football too.

Matthean

11-20-2013, 08:09 PM

I got a big chuckle out of the whole thing.

dawgfan

11-20-2013, 08:50 PM

Ding ding ding.
That said, the difference in SOS between the two isn't huge. Sagarin has Alabama at 41st toughest and FSU at 58th toughest.

Matthean

11-20-2013, 10:11 PM

That said, the difference in SOS between the two isn't huge. Sagarin has Alabama at 41st toughest and FSU at 58th toughest.

Auburn and Missouri will offer more resistance than what FSU will have to face as well.

CU Tiger

11-20-2013, 10:57 PM

Auburn and Missouri will offer more resistance than what FSU will have to face as well.

true because the SEC team FSU schedules out of conference is garbage this year.

Bama scheduled 1 ACC team OOC and FSU scheduled 1 SEC team...

Oh I forgot the SEC is the only real conference and when a new team joins there Offensive production increases each of the 1st two years (see aTm and Mizzou) wait, no what????

I'm in a bad fframe of mind tonight because of some personal struggles, so Im going to guard closely what I say, but BUT BUT...if the allegations all over college football are true, Slive needs jail time. End of story.

jbergey22

11-20-2013, 11:05 PM

They should be #1. Only reason they aren't is that Alabama started there and apparently that's a reason for keeping them there. A system where being ranked higher before a game is played factors into who plays in the national championship.

Well if they were to play who do you think would win? That is how they should be voting.

If there is one thing we should have learned from the past 4 years is to bet on bama.

Butter

11-21-2013, 06:48 AM

That said, the difference in SOS between the two isn't huge. Sagarin has Alabama at 41st toughest and FSU at 58th toughest.

By most metrics I have read, they are similar in SOS. That may change the last couple of weeks with who Alabama has left, but so far with their schedules and what they've done with them, Florida State deserves to be #1.

Breeze

11-21-2013, 09:24 AM

true because the SEC team FSU schedules out of conference is garbage this year.

Bama scheduled 1 ACC team OOC and FSU scheduled 1 SEC team...

Oh I forgot the SEC is the only real conference and when a new team joins there Offensive production increases each of the 1st two years (see aTm and Mizzou) wait, no what????

I'm in a bad fframe of mind tonight because of some personal struggles, so Im going to guard closely what I say, but BUT BUT...if the allegations all over college football are true, Slive needs jail time. End of story.

Hey CU...something new on Slive that I've missed? Can you provide a link?

digamma

11-21-2013, 10:38 AM

Bama scheduled 1 ACC team OOC and FSU scheduled 1 SEC team...

The ACC did its teams no favors with the 9 conference game bait and switch.

Thomkal

11-23-2013, 11:11 AM

Coastal Carolina plays South Carolina today and I don't think either team really wants to play the game at this point in the season over the concern for injury. A loss won't affect CCU's playoff chances, and its likely they will lose and lose big given Steve Spurrier's 47-0 lifetime record against FBS schools and Coastal's 0-4 lifetime record against FCS schools, all blowouts.

But there is some incentive for both teams to win-Coastal Carolina was originally part of the South Carolina university system, and the parting was less than sweet lets say. They have never faced each other in many sports unless it was a playoff game as a result and certainly never in football before. So I expect Coastal to play hard the first half and depending on the score, start resting a lot of their key players to keep them safe for the playoffs.