NFL Week 11

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Let's start this week off with a bang! Dwayne Bowe decided to go all Colorado on us during his off-week. Arrested for speeding and marijuana possession. Most believe it's his first offense in the NFL, so he'll be entered in the NFL program and faces a suspension if it happens again.

Chiefs’ wide receiver Dwayne Bowe arrested for speeding, possession | fox4kc.com (http://fox4kc.com/2013/11/12/chiefs-wide-receiver-dwayne-bowe-arrested-for-speeding-possession/)

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Breaking Madden (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fbreaking-madden&ei=XTGFUt3vCczNsQS8joLQDQ&usg=AFQjCNFKy0VoOld7pZdVnCm8d2D9K2Eh4A&sig2=MV0mY9OsJbEmH2M187w0Kw&bvm=bv.56343320,d.cWc)

Figured this might have some fans here - Jon Bois tweaks Madden in a funny way each week and posts about the game. Loved the Johnson one.

[BillJasper]

Breaking Madden (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fbreaking-madden&ei=XTGFUt3vCczNsQS8joLQDQ&usg=AFQjCNFKy0VoOld7pZdVnCm8d2D9K2Eh4A&sig2=MV0mY9OsJbEmH2M187w0Kw&bvm=bv.56343320,d.cWc)

Figured this might have some fans here - Jon Bois tweaks Madden in a funny way each week and posts about the game. Loved the Johnson one.

:lol:

[gstelmack]

The local sports talk radio station has been running an ad for their segment with Steve Logan, ex-ECU head coach and ex-Bucs assistant. In the bit he says his only encounter with Madden was when his 10 year old was playing, and he picked a play, and threw an incomplete pass. Logan told his son that they used to run that play, and what he had to do was watch the middle linebacker to know where to throw. His son called the play a few more times, completing each pass, turned to Logan and said "Dad, you broke the game".

[ColtCrazy]

Man, my Colts look like the 2-14 team from 2011. Just atrocious in every area.
Healthy, I'm confident about them. But they lost their two best backs, Richardson looks like a horrible reach, no Wayne means we have no dependable 3rd down receiver, and the lack of offense exposes what is a subpar defense.
And if Reed can't figure out how to take a f**king knee on kickoffs. Hell, I could run out to the 5 and get creamed repeatedly.

[Matthean]

Man, my Colts look like the 2-14 team from 2011.

One big difference.

[bhlloy]

How in the holy shit did Walden not get ejected for a headbutt on a helmetless player that the ref clearly saw?

[ColtCrazy]

I expect Walden to get suspended a game for that headbutt.

Still wondering why CJ didn't get the ball more in the 3rd. By the time they did, the Indy D had the momentum going.

Still no way they can play half a game and expect to do anything in the playoffs, but Luck's will to win is impressive.

[hoopsguy]

Grantland Science: The Ultimate Awful Quarterback - The Triangle Blog - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/82060/grantland-scienc-ultimate-awful-qb)

From the comments section: "Not fair to use the Vikings twice. Haven't we suffered enough?"

[albionmoonlight]

Kind of amazing to me how little respect the Chiefs have gotten this season. Got this in an email and thought it was pretty funny.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/albionmoonlight/1311kcmiley.jpg

[britrock88]

...wow.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Gameday! Pretty fired up for Round 1 of Broncos/Chiefs. I think the Chiefs will lose, but it's a lot of fun to have big games in the AFC West again!

[EagleFan]

There are games going on?

[mckerney]

Kind of amazing to me how little respect the Chiefs have gotten this season. Got this in an email and thought it was pretty funny.

This is what Miley Cyrus looked like last time the Chiefs won a playoff game.

http://i.imgur.com/MJUlxja.jpg

[tucker rocky]

Why didn't the NFL just move the start time back for the Balt/Chi game, knowing full well that this system was moving in?

Did they really think there wouldn't be a delay?

[Danny]

Hmmm, this Johnson guy in Detroit seems like he might be a player some day

[Thomkal]

<----thinks he can breathe a sigh of relief after his beloved Cards pull ahead of the Jaguars with a 91 yd TD pass to Floyd, longest in the NFL this season.

[SirFozzie]

I did not expect the Bills to beat the Jets. I especially did not expect to see them beating the Jets by 20

[cuervo72]

Huh - Nick Williams is a white guy?

[SirFozzie]

Breaking News: Rex Ryan took the Jets to Dave and Busters in Buffalo last night.

(this is quite possibly the most asinine bit of background I've heard, they were insinuating that the Bills lead is because of this)

[cuervo72]

Ok Eagles, let's not fuck this up now.

[Lathum]

Wow, terrible call by Schwartz to not take the points there.

[miami_fan]

Wow, terrible call by Schwartz to not take the points there.

He probably saw some research about not kicking field goals, only going for TDs:p

[JonInMiddleGA]

How is it possible that the Falcons don't fire someone tomorrow?

[cuervo72]

*clenches fists*

[miami_fan]

Do the Steelers have a QB sneak in their playbook?

[Buccaneer]

Breaking News: Rex Ryan took the Jets to Dave and Busters in Buffalo last night.

(this is quite possibly the most asinine bit of background I've heard, they were insinuating that the Bills lead is because of this)

It was probably Geno Smith's idea just to get the coaches to stop nagging at him about stupid stuff like the playbook, films and listening to instructions.

[mckerney]

Damn I missed watching Harvin, hate that it has to be for another team now.

[BillJasper]

Enchanced quarterback protections could come in at least two ways | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/17/enchanced-quarterback-protections-could-come-in-least-two-ways/)

Seems the NFL is bound and determined to completely kill my interest in the game entirely.

[Coffee Warlord]

Trestman getting crucified for not using his timeouts as Baltimore ties it to force OT.

It's unorthodox, but interesting to let the clock run and force Balt to move their ass down the field (which they of course, did). But in slop with no faith in your defense, it's bizarre, but defensible. Ish.

[EagleFan]

Of course that game is going overtime.

[EagleFan]

Enchanced quarterback protections could come in at least two ways | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/17/enchanced-quarterback-protections-could-come-in-least-two-ways/)

Seems the NFL is bound and determined to completely kill my interest in the game entirely.

Ugh. Once the QB is out of the pocket he should be treated as a runner.

Also, I know it is rare but if you get to the QB before he hands the ball off you should be able to hit the QB.

[BillJasper]

Ugh. Once the QB is out of the pocket he should be treated as a runner.

Also, I know it is rare but if you get to the QB before he hands the ball off you should be able to hit the QB.

It just seems that we already have 21 guys playing one game and the QB's playing another and this is only going to make it worse.

[BillJasper]

What the fuck is wrong with Tannehill?!? Fall down!

[mckerney]

After he had one dropped earlier in the game Pick Six Ponder is back!



I really can't believe they're still putting him out there... ...and he's finally on the bench. Hopefully for good this time.

[Jas_lov]

The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league without Aaron Rodgers. They've lost 3 straight without him, 3 games they probably win with him. Their only chance to win a game without Rodgers is next week vs Minny. Then hope Rodgers returns on Thanksgiving and they'd have to win that one to tie Detroit and they'd hold the HTH tiebreaker. They're lucky Minny is on the schedule next week, one of the few teams with a worse QB than Scott Tolzien.

[BillJasper]

They're lucky Minny is on the schedule next week, one of the few teams with a worse QB than Scott Tolzien.

To be fair, Tolzien is a scrub from the practice squad and Ponder is a first-round pick. :p

[SackAttack]

The Packers are one of the worst teams in the league without Aaron Rodgers. They've lost 3 straight without him, 3 games they probably win with him. Their only chance to win a game without Rodgers is next week vs Minny. Then hope Rodgers returns on Thanksgiving and they'd have to win that one to tie Detroit and they'd hold the HTH tiebreaker. They're lucky Minny is on the schedule next week, one of the few teams with a worse QB than Scott Tolzien.

Tolzien has played reasonably well. The interceptions have hurt him, but a 70% completion rate and ~340 yards, if that's what you expect from a crappy QB, then why isn't QB play in the league overall at a higher level?

[kingfc22]

What a bullshit call. He made no contact to the head until the way down which shouldn't matter.

[ColtCrazy]

Someone was saying about the league over protecting the QB? Brees doesn't get hit in the neck, gets hit in the high chest…and there's a penalty.

[kingfc22]

Someone was saying about the league over protecting the QB? Brees doesn't get hit in the neck, gets hit in the high chest…and there's a penalty.

Such horseshit.

[BillJasper]

What a bullshit call. He made no contact to the head until the way down which shouldn't matter.

I'm wondering if they are making QB's less safe with some of these rules? It seems to me that many QB's now pay less attention to what goes on around them. I just watched Brees' get blasted from a pass rusher he should've seen coming.

[ColtCrazy]

Odd mistake by Brees on the intentional grounding. Wonder if he's a bit shaken up? Still, Saints get 3 they shouldn't have. And I like Brees. Just a shame. And then there's Aikman, agreeing with the call. Spoken like a true QB!

[SirFozzie]

Wasn't "Well" outside the pocket.. the Niners just got their payback call.

[BillJasper]

I think Kaepernick made it out of the pocket. But not "well outside" of it. :lol:

[Lathum]

Looked like grounding to me

[BillJasper]

Someone needs to teach these young QB's how to fall down in bounds.

[SirFozzie]

Niners make a stupid penalty.

[kingfc22]

Niners make a stupid penalty.

Ugh. These last 3 minutes have been brutal. :banghead:

[BillJasper]

How do you not see the fair catch signal? Guy is right in front of you...

[BillJasper]

Niners gave that one away.

[JPhillips]

How do you not see the fair catch signal? Guy is right in front of you...

On the long replay he was clearly looking up when Sproles waved for the fair catch.

[RedKingGold]

The 49ers lost that one with just basic, mental mistakes.

[kingfc22]

Niners gave that one away.

This team just isn't good enough on offense to beat quality teams.

[BillJasper]

On the long replay he was clearly looking up when Sproles waved for the fair catch.

I saw that. But when guy catches the ball and is just standing there, it might be a good sign to approach with caution. :lol:

[JPhillips]

In the AFC six 4-6 teams are one game back in the Wild Card standings.

[BillJasper]

I wonder if Josh Freeman was part of the problem in Tampa Bay?

[Vince, Pt. II]

So despite the fact that Frank Gore dropped what was apparently likely to be a 60 yard TD pass, why in the hell are the 49ers passing it three straight times while up with 7 minutes left in the game? What the hell, playcalling?

[Coffee Warlord]

So I need about 15 points from Demarius Thomas tonight to recover from a horrible fantasy week. Against a guy who isn't even paying attention, and had 1 WR slot open.

[ColtCrazy]

So I need about 15 points from Demarius Thomas tonight to recover from a horrible fantasy week. Against a guy who isn't even paying attention, and had 1 WR slot open.

I'm 23 back going into tonight. He has Succop. I have Charles and Thomas. There's a chance despite:

*Starting Keenum who was benched. Kaepernick is my backup. Lost a few points there.

*Someone stuck on a bye cut Jordan Cameron from Cleveland. I picked him up and started him over Coby Fleenor…who has struggled until this week of course.

*Picked up Bobby Rainey, but didn't want to start him over Eddie Lacy.

So, 64 points are sitting on my bench. Considering how my team has went, I expect tonight to be a defensive, field goal battle where my two get out paced by a kicker.

Why do I play this again? I hate fantasy football.

[Matthean]

In the AFC six 4-6 teams are one game back in the Wild Card standings.

There's likely only two teams in the NFC worth a damn. The same might be said of the AFC, but I'm not sure which two.

[Coffee Warlord]

Keenan Allen and Jordan Reed both got hurt, Reggie Bush barely played, and my defense actually got me a negative. Yeah, I don't deserve to win this week.

[Bobble]

I saw that. But when guy catches the ball and is just standing there, it might be a good sign to approach with caution. :lol:

With the potential for serious injury if a guy misses that the returner signaled and demolishes him. I don't know why they don't have something more apparent to signal a fair catch. Have a ref behind the returner blow a horn or toss a pink flag at the returner's feet or something.

[TroyF]

Clear holding on Denver there. Horrible non call.

[TroyF]

OK, there is the make up non call. Thomas was mugged without a call, that was so bad it was comical.

[SirFozzie]

Twitter / NFLRT: Drew Brees might need some ... (https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/402232533569396736/photo/1)

If the neck area is a penalty, that looks like a neck area hit. The rule may be over protecting the QB, but by the letter of the law...

[TroyF]

Denver has thrown the ball seven times. There was a missed holding against the Chiefs on one play and a blitz up the middle. The other four plays:

1) incomplete screen pass
2) defensive holding on the Chiefs preventing huge play
3) Great Chiefs coverage on incomplete pass to Thomas
4) Thomas held, no call.
5) Welker for five yards, terrific tackle by the Chiefs D

Overall, Chiefs winning the battle so far. Manning is 2/6 for 12 yards.

If the Chiefs are to be competitive the rest of the game, they are going to need to put more pressure or Manning will figure out the secondary.

As for the Chiefs offense, it's everything I expected. It's either Charles or nothing. The backup fullback caught a nice pass for 16 yards, but there just aren't any serious weapons. Denver is loading up and threatening Smith to beat them deep. Smith had a pass dropped, then over threw a guy. The plays are there, especially if the line continues to play the way they are, but I'm not convinced yet they have the players to make them.

[TroyF]

One other note, it's VERY clear what Denver is doing here with all of these outside runs. Run outside a lot early and force the Chiefs DLine side to side. We'll see how good their conditioning is tonight.

Horrible fumble by Denver, but KC follow suit. Wonder how much more of Ball we'll see.

[TroyF]

Collinsworth, "The Broncos are usually torching teams by now"

Is it too much to ask for announcers to actually do homework?

Denver scoring by quarter:

1st - 7.3
2nd - 10.0
3rd - 11.1
4th - 12.8

So yeah, no, the Denver offense gets better as the game goes along and has all year. They now have scored a field goal more this quarter then they usually do. I'm not saying it's going to play out that way tonight, but KC is far from the first team to shut Denver down the first few drives this year.

[TroyF]

That was a good call, just call it both ways boys. Classless.

[TroyF]

LOL, same ref that throws the flag on Nacho, decides not to call the most obvious offensive PI in history. Holy crap, that was terrible.

[ColtCrazy]

There are so many flags in this game I keep expecting them to start being sponsored.

[bhlloy]

But football is so exciting when every other pass play results in a flag on the defense and a first down! It's what the fans want to see!

[Danny]

I think the Texans need to move on from Kubiak

[TroyF]

Look, as I said before, who knows how the rest of the game turns out. But I'm sick of Collinsworth talking about how KC has been in this football game. Denver scoring drives for TD's are 85, 79 and 65 yards. Total yards: Denver 343 Chiefs 209

If the Chiefs weren't 9-0, the announcers would be speaking of this like it was a standard domination from a top team vs. a team with no offense. The Chiefs might score 31 in the fourth quarter and win the game. I'm just talking about up to right now.

[jbergey22]

Look, as I said before, who knows how the rest of the game turns out. But I'm sick of Collinsworth talking about how KC has been in this football game. Denver scoring drives for TD's are 85, 79 and 65 yards. Total yards: Denver 343 Chiefs 209

If the Chiefs weren't 9-0, the announcers would be speaking of this like it was a standard domination from a top team vs. a team with no offense. The Chiefs might score 31 in the fourth quarter and win the game. I'm just talking about up to right now.

Would you prefer they just give the Broncos the championship and not play the games? You sound annoyed that a team dare compete against the mighty broncos. One of the jobs the announcer has is to "sell" the game so people keep watching. Wouldnt really be selling the game very well if they conclude complete domination when its a 2 score game with the undefeated team having the ball.

I believe this game is going how a lot of people would have predicted. A lot of big plays by the Broncos with the Chiefs sort of hanging around waiting for a Broncos mistake or two which is how the Chiefs play. Not every team has Peyton Manning you know.

[TroyF]

More Collinsworth greatness: "That was a successful drive by the Chiefs" Ummm, no, it wasn't. They desperately needed points there. Again, this is a team down 14 on the road against a team with a great offense. Odds are, you'll need 30 to beat them. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is KC has to throw 100% of the time, which would be a death sentence.

That drive wasn't good at all for Kansas City.

[jbergey22]

Broncos caught a break there it seems.

[Bigsmooth]

Great win for the Hawks. Percy Harvin's addition to the offense is pretty much unfair. He was begging Pete all week to let him return a kickoff and Pete was not having it. Kearse, the kick returner, gets a concussion and forces Pete's hand a bit. Of course, Percy almost takes it to the house. He's simply electric and if he stays healthy the rest of the way the Hawks are primed for a 15-1 season and a nice comfy home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Next up, Monday night against the Saints. Yes please.

[TroyF]

Would you prefer they just give the Broncos the championship and not play the games? You sound annoyed that a team dare compete against the mighty broncos. One of the jobs the announcer has is to "sell" the game so people keep watching. Wouldnt really be selling the game very well if they conclude complete domination when its a 2 score game with the undefeated team having the ball.

I believe this game is going how a lot of people would have predicted. A lot of big plays by the Broncos with the Chiefs sort of hanging around waiting for a Broncos mistake or two which is how the Chiefs play. Not every team has Peyton Manning you know.

I expect the announcers to narrate the story. The story in this game is not that the Chiefs are "hanging" with the Broncos. The real one is they really aren't. This game has not been all that close. The vaunted Chiefs DLine has zero sacks, two hits and two tackles behind the line all game. The Broncos have now scored a comfortable 27 and over 400 yards with over 7 minutes left.

Look, everyone kept telling me how the Chiefs were getting slammed by idiots who didn't respect them. Well, they had everything going for them this week. They were coming off a bye. Manning was beat to hell and the Chargers pressured him non stop. They had time to rest Charles and give Denver new wrinkles. What we have is a team that hasn't been much different from the other "dregs" the Broncos have faced this year. They are getting shelled.

For the record, I don't think Denver is a lock for the Super Bowl. I think they have plenty of weaknesses a very good team can exploit. The Chiefs are not a very good team. They are a good one with MASSIVE holes who are lucky to be where they are. This isn't me stating this after the fact and this isn't me being a Broncos fan. If the Chiefs played New England, Indy, Cincy, Seattle, Carolina, Detroit, New Orleans, or SF had played them tonight the outcome would have been the same.

[jbergey22]

Great win for the Hawks. Percy Harvin's addition to the offense is pretty much unfair. He was begging Pete all week to let him return a kickoff and Pete was not having it. Kearse, the kick returner, gets a concussion and forces Pete's hand a bit. Of course, Percy almost takes it to the house. He's simply electric and if he stays healthy the rest of the way the Hawks are primed for a 15-1 season and a nice comfy home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Next up, Monday night against the Saints. Yes please.

You will love him when hes on the field. When you see a guy with that speed that can run over bigger defenders it is fun to watch. Just keeping him playing is an issue. He just seems to miss random games quite often. Last year during the Vikings playoff push he was no where to be found.

[jbergey22]

I expect the announcers to narrate the story. The story in this game is not that the Chiefs are "hanging" with the Broncos. The real one is they really aren't. This game has not been all that close. The vaunted Chiefs DLine has zero sacks, two hits and two tackles behind the line all game. The Broncos have now scored a comfortable 27 and over 400 yards with over 7 minutes left.

Look, everyone kept telling me how the Chiefs were getting slammed by idiots who didn't respect them. Well, they had everything going for them this week. They were coming off a bye. Manning was beat to hell and the Chargers pressured him non stop. They had time to rest Charles and give Denver new wrinkles. What we have is a team that hasn't been much different from the other "dregs" the Broncos have faced this year. They are getting shelled.

For the record, I don't think Denver is a lock for the Super Bowl. I think they have plenty of weaknesses a very good team can exploit. The Chiefs are not a very good team. They are a good one with MASSIVE holes who are lucky to be where they are. This isn't me stating this after the fact and this isn't me being a Broncos fan. If the Chiefs played New England, Indy, Cincy, Seattle, Carolina, Detroit, New Orleans, or SF had played them tonight the outcome would have been the same.

Maybe the Chiefs are just having an "off" game like the Broncos did against the Colts? I dont really care all the much but they clearly are a good team or they wouldnt have been 9-0 coming into tonight. They probably are overrated but like 11 other teams they will be where they need to be come January. Its far too soon to get overly excited either way as an injury so often makes or breaks a season. Ask Packer fans.

Broncos likely will be the Super Bowl favorites come January and have the most talented offense. If memory serves they also were last year and well that didnt go so well for them.

[EagleFan]

Somewhere Mercury Morris is masturbating like a 15 year old that found his old man's playboys.

[Radii]

I expect the announcers to narrate the story.

Since when? Announcers always make sure to show how the game isn't over yet, its part of keeping people interested and keeping people from turning the channel. Yes, you narrate the story, but you also drive interest. Its been like this for at least the last 30 years, I assume it was like that before I started watching sports too.


Look, everyone kept telling me how the Chiefs were getting slammed by idiots who didn't respect them.

I thought the vast majority here (I would have assumed 90% of FOFC NFL fans) expected Denver to win this game, likely to win it handily? Yes, people pointed out that Denver's schedule had been just as easy as KC's... but what's happening is no surprise to anyone, is it?

[EagleFan]

Way to manage the clock there Denver...

[cuervo72]

I thought the vast majority here (I would have assumed 90% of FOFC NFL fans) expected Denver to win this game, likely to win it handily? Yes, people pointed out that Denver's schedule had been just as easy as KC's... but what's happening is no surprise to anyone, is it?

Pretty much other than Mizzou B-ball fan, yeah. And he's not doing much talking in this thread right now. So yeah, listening to Troy arguing in an echo chamber (or against Collinsworth, who yes is trying to keep people watching)...there's not much point beyond making the rest of us think geez, just quit bitching about a game where you're going to win by 10 and blah blah RESPECT before we all fucking begin hating your team.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty much other than Mizzou B-ball fan, yeah. And he's not doing much talking in this thread right now. So yeah, listening to Troy arguing in a vacuum (or against Collinsworth, who yes is trying to keep people watching)...there's not much point beyond making the rest of us think geez, just quit bitching about a game where you're going to win by 10 and blah blah RESPECT before we all fucking begin hating your team.

I'm not sure where you got that. I clearly stated I though KC would lose. Denver needed this win desparately and they got it. The end result is that KC still controls their own destiny as far as the division title. I saw nothing that showed that KC was overmatched in any way tonight. Denver got away with a lot of pushoffs tonight and got a couple of key plays. That's the way it goes.

[TroyF]

Maybe the Chiefs are just having an "off" game like the Broncos did against the Colts? I dont really care all the much but they clearly are a good team or they wouldnt have been 9-0 coming into tonight. They probably are overrated but like 11 other teams they will be where they need to be come January. Its far too soon to get overly excited either way as an injury so often makes or breaks a season. Ask Packer fans.

Broncos likely will be the Super Bowl favorites come January and have the most talented offense. If memory serves they also were last year and well that didnt go so well for them.

No, KC is the OVERRATED of the OVERRATED. This is a team that gets outgained as often as it outgains someone else. In the five games before this one, KC had to protect a one score game late against these QBs: Fitzpatrick, Pryor, Keenum, Campbell, Teul. They were outgained in THREE of those games.

People talk about the schedule of Denver vs. KC, but forget to mention a few things.

1) KC was horrible offensively against that schedule.
2) Denver was without it's best defensive player for six weeks and has had a minimum of two defensive starters miss every game this season.

Despite what I said, KC is still a decent team. But they are not very good and they are far, far worse than the "surprise" teams we've seen make runs at the Super Bowl the past 7 or 8 seasons. In a one game scenario, anything can happen, but if the Broncos, Bengals or Patriots played the Chiefs 10 times each, the Chiefs would be very lucky to go 5-25 against them.

[TroyF]

Pretty much other than Mizzou B-ball fan, yeah. And he's not doing much talking in this thread right now. So yeah, listening to Troy arguing in an echo chamber (or against Collinsworth, who yes is trying to keep people watching)...there's not much point beyond making the rest of us think geez, just quit bitching about a game where you're going to win by 10 and blah blah RESPECT before we all fucking begin hating your team.

I don't care if people hate my team. The thing you are missing is that I'm NOT talking up "my team" "My team" could have been one of 10 other teams tonight and they still would have beat the Chiefs. I know it's shocking, but I like the Chiefs. I love Reid, I like Alex Smith, love the pass rush, love Eric Berry. . .

But they aren't very good. If a San Jose Sharks or Chicago Blackhawks fan were bashing the Avs, I'd nod in agreement. Nice story, but they are far worse than their record indicates. Over the course of the year, it will show. Mizzou, you were far more than a couple of plays away.

[Matthean]

I wouldn't beat much of anything with the Bengals involved.

[jbergey22]

No, KC is the OVERRATED of the OVERRATED. This is a team that gets outgained as often as it outgains someone else. In the five games before this one, KC had to protect a one score game late against these QBs: Fitzpatrick, Pryor, Keenum, Campbell, Teul. They were outgained in THREE of those games.

People talk about the schedule of Denver vs. KC, but forget to mention a few things.

1) KC was horrible offensively against that schedule.
2) Denver was without it's best defensive player for six weeks and has had a minimum of two defensive starters miss every game this season.

Despite what I said, KC is still a decent team. But they are not very good and they are far, far worse than the "surprise" teams we've seen make runs at the Super Bowl the past 7 or 8 seasons. In a one game scenario, anything can happen, but if the Broncos, Bengals or Patriots played the Chiefs 10 times each, the Chiefs would be very lucky to go 5-25 against them.

Taking all of your biases out of play they are currently ranked about the 8th best team in the NFL according to Football Outsiders which I can live with.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 TEAM EFFICIENCY RATINGS (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff)

I get the impression that you arent looking at the Chiefs from an unbias perspective as MBBF may have gotten under your skin like he does many others.

[BillJasper]

I think the Chiefs are a good team and have had an amazing turnaround under Andy Reid.

But two things bother me about this team:

1. Alex Smith. I just don't think he's a guy that can put a team on his shoulders and carry them when the chips are down.

2. The defense. They are good but they didn't really get a sniff pass rushing last night vs. an average line and a QB with a bum ankle.

[gstelmack]

But football is so exciting when every other pass play results in a flag on the defense and a first down! It's what the fans want to see!

The defenders needed to stop mugging receivers. Both sides were doing it, plenty of flags could have been thrown that weren't. This wasn't on the refs, it was on the players, and I'm surprised they didn't throw more. The problem with NOT throwing more is it leaves them open to questions of bias.

I'm also convinced that if a receivers hands are extended after his break from a defender, throw an offensive interference flag, there was plenty of that, too.

[gstelmack]

Denver got away with a lot of pushoffs tonight

As did KC, it was a physical game in the secondary, something I thought the league decided to emphasize back when Bill Polian whined about the Patriots...

[Butter]

I don't know how the Bengals won that game 41-20 with Dalton looking possibly the worst he's looked all year in that game. I think he had less than 100 yards passing.

That James Harrison interception return that got called back fired up the team though. I was fired up and I was sitting at home. He ran over 2 Offensive Lineman head on to get into the end zone. I hate James Harrison, but holy shit that was an amazing play. You should watch the highlights if you haven't seen it.

[Coffee Warlord]

I think the Chiefs are a good team and have had an amazing turnaround under Andy Reid.

But two things bother me about this team:

1. Alex Smith. I just don't think he's a guy that can put a team on his shoulders and carry them when the chips are down.

Maybe, after however many years he's been around, Alex Smith is simply a pretty damn good quarterback. He won in San Fran, he's winning in KC, how much more does the guy need to do before he gets some credit?

[BillJasper]

He won in San Fran, he's winning in KC, how much more does the guy need to do before he gets some credit?

No one is saying he's a bad QB, but he is going to have to put up more than seventeen points if the Chiefs want to do anything more than exit the playoffs in the first-round.

[Butter]

If you get benched mid-season during your team's Super Bowl-losing run, I would argue that you are not a "damn good QB".

[TroyF]

I'm not sure where you got that. I clearly stated I though KC would lose. Denver needed this win desparately and they got it. The end result is that KC still controls their own destiny as far as the division title. I saw nothing that showed that KC was overmatched in any way tonight. Denver got away with a lot of pushoffs tonight and got a couple of key plays. That's the way it goes.

Push offs? You mean like the oneyou guys got for your only meaningful TD? Or was it
Flowers beating the living hell out of any Bronco WR with impunity? Please, you did notlose the game due to refs or one or two plays. Your pass rush was shut down cold, Charles was contained which caused the offense to get stifled, and your QB did not sniff 50% completion percentage.

Before you say it, I know, you had some drops. Guess what, Denver did too. You had a couple of near miss int's. Denver did as well and must have had 5 batted passes that could easily have gone for int's if the deflections were different. In the meaningful part of the game, you were outgained by over 150 yards. Your two biggest strengths were taken away.

Maybe that changes in KC in a couple of weeks. Maybe you lock up the AFC west after Denver loses to NE and you beat us. But it will take a hell of a lot more than a "couple of plays" to make that happen.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Push offs? You mean like the oneyou guys got for your only meaningful TD? Or was it
Flowers beating the living hell out of any Bronco WR with impunity? Please, you did notlose the game due to refs or one or two plays. Your pass rush was shut down cold, Charles was contained which caused the offense to get stifled, and your QB did not sniff 50% completion percentage.

Before you say it, I know, you had some drops. Guess what, Denver did too. You had a couple of near miss int's. Denver did as well and must have had 5 batted passes that could easily have gone for int's if the deflections were different. In the meaningful part of the game, you were outgained by over 150 yards. Your two biggest strengths were taken away.

Maybe that changes in KC in a couple of weeks. Maybe you lock up the AFC west after Denver loses to NE and you beat us. But it will take a hell of a lot more than a "couple of plays" to make that happen.

LOL......I've never seen anyone be so mad about his team winning.

[Marmel]

TroyF is making MBBF look sane in this thread! :lol:

[panerd]

Wasn't on here live during the game yesterday but damn Marv Albert is getting old and needs to hang it up. I don't know if he still has it for basketball or not but during the Cinci game yesterday he switched the Browns and Bengals at least three times including an Andy Dalton pick 6 that he yelled "Touchdown Bengals!". On another play the player dived for the line of scrimmage and Albert debated on whether or not he did enough to bring out the chains (I guess thinking that was the first down marker). The James Harrison INT was clearly called back with a flag while Albert went on about it. I really respect the elders of the announcing but its time for Marv hang it up.

EDIT: I'm sure Cinci/Cleveland is way down on CBS's list but still.

[Butter]

Marv thought the line of scrimmage was the first down marker at least 3 times that I noticed. I thought the same thing as you... he must be getting old.

[bulletsponge]

^^ does he yell "rejection" when a lineman blocks a pass?

[Vince, Pt. II]

No one is saying he's a bad QB, but he is going to have to put up more than seventeen points if the Chiefs want to do anything more than exit the playoffs in the first-round.

San Francisco 36
New Orleans 32
NFC Divisional Playoffs, 2011

That game convinced me that Alex Smith is better than simply a game manager.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

San Francisco 36
New Orleans 32
NFC Divisional Playoffs, 2011

That game convinced me that Alex Smith is better than simply a game manager.

Alex is poised and doesn't make bad plays (interceptions and sacks for big losses). You only notice those things when your QB is screwing them up. Sometimes having no gain on a play instead of a 10-12 yard loss or having an incomplete pass rather than an interception is a pretty big deal. He's rarely put the Chiefs in a bad position this year and it's one of the big reasons this team is so much better than they were last year.

[larrymcg421]

I think if my team was ever 8-1 and just beat a rival that was 9-0, I would've enjoyed it a bit more than TroyF just did.

[EagleFan]

My 5-5 team just beat a 3-6 rival and I think that I enjoyed it more than TroyF just did.

[Arles]

I can understand how frustrated some Broncos fans get. Again, I don't have a "horse" (pardon the pun) in the race but I do feel like KC has been propped up all season by the media. The Broncos lose on the road to the Colts by 6 points in a clearly emotional game for Manning and the entire narrative is how this Broncos team is flawed and has issues. I mean, Peyton went for 386 with 3 TDs, 1 INT and 33 points on the road and the entire post-game is talking to Colts about how they "shut the Broncos down".

The Chiefs had two drives that went over 10 yards in the first 3 quarters (if you don't count Smith's meaningless 25 yard run as the half expired). They had their best drive when Denver was clearly playing soft coverage up 17 midway through the 4th. Yet, everyone is talking up KC to be "ready" for the next game and how they gave a great showing.

If KC wants respect, they need to beat Denver in KC. Until that point, I reserve the right to continue to be skeptical. Last night was exactly as I expected - a comfortable win for Denver at home.

[Lathum]

If you get benched mid-season during your team's Super Bowl-losing run, I would argue that you are not a "damn good QB".

Is it Alex Smiths fault Kyle Williams decided to have the worst game ever at the worst possible time?

I'm a Giants fan and can admit we were gifted ( may have won anyway, who the heck knows).

Then the next year he was well on his way to leading them to a return run when Harbaugh fell in love with the shiny new toy he drafted. Kapernick has looked pretty human this year also, I'm not sold the Niners even kept the right guy.

There are probably half the teams in the league who would jump at the chance to take Alex Smith.

Bills, Jags, Vikings, Cards, Raiders, Browns, Ramsn, Jets, Texans, Tampa, and probably others.

There are probably even some teams like the Cowboys, Bengals, and Chargers who would secretly tell you they want him.

[jbergey22]

You can do a lot better or worse than Alex Smith. He fits in better on the Cheifs than he would a lot of teams as well because he can be his style of QB(ball control, play action) instead of having to carry a team. I dont think he would do well in a system where he was the focal point and had to throw 40+ times per game.

[Julio Riddols]

I wonder if Josh Freeman was part of the problem in Tampa Bay?

Glennon is definitely a better QB from what I have seen.

[BillJasper]

San Francisco 36
New Orleans 32
NFC Divisional Playoffs, 2011

That game convinced me that Alex Smith is better than simply a game manager.

Let's not go overboard on Smith. The Niners did have Frank Gore, Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree. Davis went nuts catching seven passes for 180 yards in that game. Smith's other seventeen completions went for 119 yards.

Smith has his lowest completion percentage in five years and his lowest YPA since his rookie season. Whether this is a reflection on Smith or the offense the Chiefs are running or the players he has around him is up for debate. What I don't think is up for debate is that the Chiefs offense is going to have to score more than seventeen points a game in the playoffs to have a shot at making a deep run.

[Julio Riddols]

I think Smith is suffering a lot with a receiving corps that doesn't demand any double teams.. But he definitely hasn't set the world on fire or anything.

And Dalton.. The last 3 weeks he has been really bad. I don't know what has happened there, but hopefully the bye week will give them a chance to figure out how to operate the offense. He had that stretch earlier on the season where he looked like he had taken that step forward, now he needs to show he can break out of the slump he's been in. He does have 21 TD passes and he is on pace for 4000 yards and 30 touchdowns.. But I'm hoping he doesn't turn into one of those Good Andy/ Bad Andy players.

[TroyF]

I can understand how frustrated some Broncos fans get. Again, I don't have a "horse" (pardon the pun) in the race but I do feel like KC has been propped up all season by the media. The Broncos lose on the road to the Colts by 6 points in a clearly emotional game for Manning and the entire narrative is how this Broncos team is flawed and has issues. I mean, Peyton went for 386 with 3 TDs, 1 INT and 33 points on the road and the entire post-game is talking to Colts about how they "shut the Broncos down".

The Chiefs had two drives that went over 10 yards in the first 3 quarters (if you don't count Smith's meaningless 25 yard run as the half expired). They had their best drive when Denver was clearly playing soft coverage up 17 midway through the 4th. Yet, everyone is talking up KC to be "ready" for the next game and how they gave a great showing.

If KC wants respect, they need to beat Denver in KC. Until that point, I reserve the right to continue to be skeptical. Last night was exactly as I expected - a comfortable win for Denver at home.

I'm more of a frustrated football fan than a Broncos fan. People are on here saying I didn't enjoy the win, that's just wrong. I enjoyed the win, but it wasn't anymore special than the Broncos beating San Diego or Baltimore.

I'm sick of people talking about the Chiefs as though they are something special. I know we aren't, but we should be above talking about a team's record as being the sole indicator of how good they are by now. I keep using the Avalanche as a comparison. they start out 12-1 while getting outshot over half the time. It is unsustainable. They will come back to earth and they will get bounced in the first round. I'll cheer like crazy for them, but they aren't there yet.

It happened by Collinsworth all game long and it's happened all throughout the morning. "The Chiefs could have won that game, they were right there, they almost had it" What the hell game were people watching? Seriously, with 8 minutes to go it was OVER. The Broncos called off the dogs (at the time they had already racked up 27 points and over 400 yards of offense), KC had a cheap 80 yard TD drive and score and suddenly it's the one or two plays that could have changed the game?

People assume because I'm a Denver fan, I have some special hatred of the Chiefs and that I'm just trying to defend my turf. I really don't care about any of that. The Broncos have flaws and they could very well get beat again because of them. They were never going 16-0. It wasn't happening.

As for Alex Smith, I like the guy and think he is in the middle between a game manager and a star. He's very, very good at limiting mistakes. The problem is he's so good at it that he doesn't take nearly enough chances. He's at 5.97 yards per pass attempt against the weakest slate of defenses in the NFL. That ranks 31st in the league, ahead of only Weedon and Freeman. Most of that is because of who he's throwing the ball to, but if the Chiefs are going to beat a good football team (much less a very good one), he's going to have to extend the field some.

[larrymcg421]

I can understand how frustrated some Broncos fans get. Again, I don't have a "horse" (pardon the pun) in the race but I do feel like KC has been propped up all season by the media. The Broncos lose on the road to the Colts by 6 points in a clearly emotional game for Manning and the entire narrative is how this Broncos team is flawed and has issues. I mean, Peyton went for 386 with 3 TDs, 1 INT and 33 points on the road and the entire post-game is talking to Colts about how they "shut the Broncos down".

What? The Chiefs were 2-14 last year! If a team that went 2-14 starts off the next year 9-0, the media is going to give them tons of great press. I don't understand how anyone could possibly have a problem understanding or accepting that.

And in the Colts game, the Colts did hold the Broncos to their lowest output of the season. The fact that the media thinks 33 points is shutting the Broncos down is a compliment to the Broncos, not a criticism. Either way, the Broncos are going to be held to a higher standard than a team that was 2-14 last year. That doesn't mean the media hates the Broncos. I mean, do you really think the media would rather have an Alex Smith Chiefs in the Superbowl than a Peyton Manning led Broncos?

[Radii]

What? The Chiefs were 2-14 last year! If a team that went 2-14 starts off the next year 9-0, the media is going to give them tons of great press. I don't understand how anyone could possibly have a problem understanding or accepting that.

The fact that the media thinks 33 points is shutting the Broncos down is a compliment to the Broncos, not a criticism.

+1! This thread is surreal this week. I'll try to come up with some absurd angle for the Panthers/Pats game tonight (or maybe just score some drugs and get really fucked up and post throughout the game) to make a proper contribution to the thread.

[jbergey22]

I'm more of a frustrated football fan than a Broncos fan. People are on here saying I didn't enjoy the win, that's just wrong. I enjoyed the win, but it wasn't anymore special than the Broncos beating San Diego or Baltimore.


I think these are the reasons I am even bothering to responding to this. You really just sound like you have a personal agenda to put the Chiefs down every chance you can.

How could it not be anymore special? You just beat the only team that was ahead of you in the division and without that win it would have been very difficult to win the division and gain HFA. Clearly it was more special and you mask the truth with statements like that.

I think also you are making more of this Chiefs hype than there really is. For being undefeated until last night I dont think Ive heard one person or TV person call them the super bowl favs. Whether its against the Jags, Cardinals, or Patriots being 9-0 in the NFL is very difficult. You should be expecting them to get talked about because they earned it you know by being 9-0. I hear the Broncos discussed far more when I am watching football shows so maybe I am missing the Chiefs overkill portion.

I dont think at this point the NFL is about spewing out advanced data to casual NFL fans to show how the Chiefs may be overrated. I am not sure the fans would like this all that much either as its far easier to relate with actual results than it is with what the computers say should happen come January.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This thread is tremendously...........special.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Chiefs able to deliver huge prime time ratings (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/18/peyton-mannings-prime-time-in-television-ratings-too/)

[Logan]

Why don't we all agree to not assume that the Collinsworths and Phil Simms of the world speak for the entirety of football fandom?

[cuervo72]

+1! This thread is surreal this week. I'll try to come up with some absurd angle for the Panthers/Pats game tonight (or maybe just score some drugs and get really fucked up and post throughout the game) to make a proper contribution to the thread.

Don't worry, Bucc will come in here at about 8:15 and proclaim that Cam Newton represents everything that is bad in America with his me attitude, disregard for education and lack of respect for his elders and that True Patriot, Scholar, and Gentleman Tom Brady will save the day with LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

[ISiddiqui]

There is nothing more amusing, FWIW, than seeing someone with irrational hatred against a team trying to justify it. So in that respect, this thread is great on the amusement factor.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW, I'm pretty pissed off at how much run this year's Jacksonville team is getting for their poor play. Last year's Chiefs team was far worse and no one paid attention to them. That's bullsh#%!

[Danny]

Man I hate those Jaguars. Everyone keeps talking about how awful they are, bad defense, bad offense. Well, c'mon, the Raiders have been bad for longer and are starting an undrafted rookie free agent at quarterback. Sure, he got lucky with Sunday at home against a collasping Texans team, but I am getting tired of all the media hate getting thrown the Jaguars way. Looking a the numbers, the Jaguars were never really that bad. The Raiders have a lower DVOAKDPA and their RTTIS is even lower. The Jaguars just had a tough schedule which gave them more losses. I think its about time the Raiders start getting the hate they deserve

[Danny]

Wow, thats funny timing

[Glengoyne]

Twitter / NFLRT: Drew Brees might need some ... (https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/402232533569396736/photo/1)

If the neck area is a penalty, that looks like a neck area hit. The rule may be over protecting the QB, but by the letter of the law...

That seems like a stretch. That photo is several frames into the tackle. The initial contact was pretty clearly across his chest. It looks a little like a clothesline type hit, but to me it was pretty clear it wasn't a cheap shot.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow, thats funny timing

Great minds think alike. Your mind is just one minute slower than mine. :)

[Glengoyne]

I think if my team was ever 8-1 and just beat a rival that was 9-0, I would've enjoyed it a bit more than TroyF just did.

I can kind of relate to Troy's position here. I've been struggling with KC's record since they were 4-0. They simply aren't that good. 9-0 was beyond belief. The record was beyond an abberation or a mere exaggeration. The emporer had no clothes.

So yeah when you hold that sort of an opinion about a team, you expect your team to win. It was almost a foregone conclusion for me that the broncos,not my team, would win. A mortal lock.

I'll be struggling with KC's record until they completely collapse and don't go .500 in the second half.

Who knew that Andy Reid could really coach, and that maybe it was Donovan mcnabb holding the Eagles back all that time?

[Coffee Warlord]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/196qi8qj2ja3igif/ku-xlarge.gif

I Can't. Stop. Watching.

[Logan]

I thought the same thing until I realized that I wasn't alone in my thoughts, and that seemingly 95% of the football universe I associate myself with shared the same beliefs about Kansas City.

One new thing I did learn that surprised me was that Denver was actually outperforming their Pythagorean win total by a slightly higher margin than Kansas City before this game.

[Danny]

Wow, that looks like a dangerous hit to me.

[Suicane75]

Who knew that Andy Reid could really coach, and that maybe it was Donovan mcnabb holding the Eagles back all that time?

Holding them back from what? Conquering the world? They went to 4 NFC title games in 10 years for the love of pete.

[Glengoyne]

Holding them back from what? Conquering the world? They went to 4 NFC title games in 10 years for the love of pete.


Bah...It took Terrell Owens to really get the job done. Limbaugh was right all along.:)

[oykib]

Wow, that looks like a dangerous hit to me.

Sometimes a hard hit is going to hurt somebody. But what is the defender supposed to do there? The rule is to avoid the head. He goes out of his way to do that. He hit him across the top of the pads. That whiplash effect isn't legislated as being illegal.

[BillJasper]

I think it'll be interesting to see how the Chiefs play this week after losing their first game of the year.

[Glengoyne]

Sometimes a hard hit is going to hurt somebody. But what is the defender supposed to do there? The rule is to avoid the head. He goes out of his way to do that. He hit him across the top of the pads. That whiplash effect isn't legislated as being illegal.

This.

In other angles you see the Defender sprinting toward the Pocket and nearly past Brees. Brees doesn't even try to avoid him. The hit looks Brutal because Brees wasn't prepared for it. Why he wasn't prepared for a hit that came from right in his line of sight is another question. The defender came around the end unimpeded. That is gonna sting.

[Honolulu_Blue]

While I've only seen the slow-mo gif above on the Brees hit, I don't see why that would be a penalty. A bad call. That said, I am glad the 49ers lost. This way, if New England can manage to be Carolina, of the current NFC playoff contenders, only the Bears will have gained ground on the Lions after they played like the Lions.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Then hope Rodgers returns on Thanksgiving and they'd have to win that one to tie Detroit and they'd hold the HTH tiebreaker.

This will undoubtedly happen.

[TroyF]

Sometimes a hard hit is going to hurt somebody. But what is the defender supposed to do there? The rule is to avoid the head. He goes out of his way to do that. He hit him across the top of the pads. That whiplash effect isn't legislated as being illegal.

I have not seen the hit in full. Did he continue the hit all the way to the ground or did he lay off after the part in that gif?

What is in the gif, doesn't look horrible to me, and I'm the guy who jumps all over anything cheap. Go figure.

[Masked]

I have not seen the hit in full. Did he continue the hit all the way to the ground or did he lay off after the part in that gif?

What is in the gif, doesn't look horrible to me, and I'm the guy who jumps all over anything cheap. Go figure.

Brooks arm continued up into the neck area, and he pulled Brees down using the arm that was around the neck.

[rowech]

Brooks arm continued up into the neck area, and he pulled Brees down using the arm that was around the neck.

Dead on. When I first saw it I couldn't believe it was called. When you watch the way he took him to the ground after the initial hit it becomes a penalty.

[Danny]

Sometimes a hard hit is going to hurt somebody. But what is the defender supposed to do there? The rule is to avoid the head. He goes out of his way to do that. He hit him across the top of the pads. That whiplash effect isn't legislated as being illegal.

I didnt say it was illegal, just hard for me to watch

[Lathum]

Jesus,what a bitch move by Talib

[Radii]

Really impressive drive from Carolina there. Talib should know better, no one fucks with Steve Smith and comes out ahead.

[oykib]

http://www.theenergyreport.com/images/mlp0605_2.pngI didnt say it was illegal, just hard for me to watch

[Scarecrow]

Um, Troy...

Broncos Being Investigated (http://topekasnews.com/cheating-denver-broncos-flood-stadium-marijuana-smoke-cause-dizzied-chiefs-lose-sunday-night-game/)

[Glengoyne]

Dead on. When I first saw it I couldn't believe it was called. When you watch the way he took him to the ground after the initial hit it becomes a penalty.


I thought he let up, and specifically didnt drive him into the ground. I even think you see brooks turning in the above gif lessening the hit. I mean the guy goes down and you don't, it is hard to imagine your arm not getting up to his neck.
I thought it was patently a bad call. I understand protecting the QB, and I'm not against the rules. I just don't think they should err on the side of a penalty when it is not a clear cut head shot.

[cuervo72]

Classy play there, Pats. Classy play.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, definitely not cool.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hmm - I don't see the Pats finding a way to stop Newton when it counts.

They just don't have the playmakers on defense due to all the injuries.

[Radii]

http://i.minus.com/iHUpj4oFfXbEP.gif

:D

[bulletsponge]

am i the only one noticing that many of cam newtons passes are high?

[EagleFan]

Um, Troy...

Broncos Being Investigated (http://topekasnews.com/cheating-denver-broncos-flood-stadium-marijuana-smoke-cause-dizzied-chiefs-lose-sunday-night-game/)

Why does that setoff my virus alerts?

[JonInMiddleGA]

REPORT: Former Falcons LB Thomas Howard died in horrific crash... | Atlanta Falcons | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-falcons/2013/nov/18/report-former-falcons-lb-thomas-howard-died-horrif/)

[kingfc22]

REPORT: Former Falcons LB Thomas Howard died in horrific crash... | Atlanta Falcons | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-falcons/2013/nov/18/report-former-falcons-lb-thomas-howard-died-horrif/)

That is one really, really bad crash. Those cars are destroyed.

[DaddyTorgo]

Stupid playcall on 3rd and 1.

At least stupid if you're going to go for it on 4th down.

[DaddyTorgo]

All 3 of the top corners are out...what are we down to...street fucking FA's playing CB. This is brutal.

That being said - they should have gone for it and punched in a TD in the Red Zone on the last drive - if they lose because they didn't they have no one to blame but that decision.

[DaddyTorgo]

Suck. Ass.

[Desnudo]

Kyle Arrington - check. Touchdown - check.

[Radii]

I am absolutely terrified of Tom Brady in this final minute.

[DaddyTorgo]

All 3 of the top corners are out...what are we down to...street fucking FA's playing CB. This is brutal.

That being said - they should have gone for it and punched in a TD in the Red Zone on the last drive - if they lose because they didn't they have no one to blame but that decision.

This.

Horrible, lack of confidence playcall on that 3rd and 1 to throw it when your running game was owning Carolina. Very well could be argued it cost them the game.

[bhlloy]

Did you just agree with yourself there?

[Radii]

What an obvious and unnecessary penalty, dear god.

[DaddyTorgo]

Did you just agree with yourself there?

Yes. Reiterating for effect.

[DaddyTorgo]

Flag in the endzone.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yep. Defensive PI.

What???

Tom: "That is fucking bull!"

[SirFozzie]

Bullshit call.

[EagleFan]

Good non call, the receiver was not making that play.

[Radii]

Luke just wanted to give Gronk a hug, that's all (that was a PI)

[Glengoyne]

Wow I can't believe they picked that one up

[Galaril]

:)

[Radii]

Either way, that was a great game, wow.

[SirFozzie]

Good non call, the receiver was not making that play.

Mostly because the Defender was pushing him 10 yards back :/

Eh. Good win Carolina fans.. we need a magic sponge for our secondary apparently :/

[jbergey22]

I think its BS they picked up the flag. But I have no idea why they threw the flag in the first place. That little contact in the back of the end zone had no impact on the under thrown interception.

On second glance yes that was clearly interference. From the original angle it looked more like Gronk created much of the contact.

[Glengoyne]

Good non call, the receiver was not making that play.


Pretty tough ruling. They threw the flag, then call it in catchable when the receiver was pushed up field.

[Glengoyne]

I think its BS they picked up the flag. But I have no idea why they threw the flag in the first place. That little contact in the back of the end zone had no impact on the under thrown interception.

First contact at the 1


Edit ok just inside the goal line

Real officials and a worse call than the sea hawks simultaneous reception

[EagleFan]

Mostly because the Defender was pushing him 10 yards back :/


Do you overestimate that way when talking to your wife/significant other... honest, that's 12 inches

:eek:

[cuervo72]

Even w/o the defender there, Gronk wasn't getting back to that ball; the contact was incidental to the play (happening five yards behind a simultaneous pick). If the pass was higher -- absolutely PI.

[jbergey22]

First contact at the 1

Yeah I just watched a different angle and it was pretty obvious.

[EagleFan]

Now for my question, I don't really get the play just before the last play. At that point about 5 yards makes no difference and if something happens that keeps the receiver from getting out of bounds the game is over.

[EagleFan]

lol, captain hoodie is in whine mode.

[Arles]

Weird ending - it was odd that the flag was thrown as usually just about anything goes for final endzone plays as time expires. Yet, it was even more odd that they picked the flag up. Kind of a clusterf*ck ending.

[jbergey22]

Now for my question, I don't really get the play just before the last play. At that point about 5 yards makes no difference and if something happens that keeps the receiver from getting out of bounds the game is over.

Well that 5 yards makes the window a little bit larger to fit that throw in that they attempted at the end. I guess if they did a fade route or something like that it wouldnt have made sense.

[EagleFan]

The 5 yards actually makes for a smaller window. The less ground defenders need to cover the smaller the window.

[cuervo72]

First contact at the 1


Edit ok just inside the goal line

Nah - have it freeze-framed, and both Gronk and the LB put their hands up (almost looks like they are dancing) about two-three yards into the end zone. LB has his hand on Gronk's right shoulder a few steps later, DB starting to play back to the ball. It takes Gronk a couple more steps to stop his momentum to work back to the ball...and yeah, LB is hugging him at this point.

I think if Gronk could have shifted his momentum sooner, or if he flattened his route just a *little* bit, the flag stays. But how his momentum was carrying him, I don't think he gets that ball even if no defender is there.

ah - edit caught me mid-post (all that frame advancing takes time)

[jbergey22]

The 5 yards actually makes for a smaller window. The less ground defenders need to cover the smaller the window.

Well the reaction of the defenders wont be as quick because Tom can get more velocity on a ball from under 20 yards than he can from 25+ making for a larger window to complete the pass.

[SirFozzie]

Ok, last post on this, because we could argue all night:

Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira 1m
My thoughts..Since the flag was thrown they should have stayed with the call. There was clear contact before the ball was intercepted. Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira 7s
You could make a case that the pass might have been uncatachable, but the flag was thrown and you should stay with it.

[EagleFan]

Ok, last post on this, because we could argue all night:

Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira 1m
My thoughts..Since the flag was thrown they should have stayed with the call. There was clear contact before the ball was intercepted. Mike Pereira ‏@MikePereira 7s
You could make a case that the pass might have been uncatachable, but the flag was thrown and you should stay with it.

Therefore every flag that is ever thrown must always remain a penalty? We'll remember that.

[jbergey22]

I bet they dont pick up that flag if the game if in Foxborough.

[BishopMVP]

I'm actually surprised the earlier holding call on McCourty wasn't mentioned here. I can see how the officials missed it, but Olson blatantly hooked his arm and exaggerated the contact, and that's the reason Carolina was ahead instead of forced to kick the tying FG with 2 minutes left.

On the last play I think it was at least defensive holding if not PI under the earlier standard. Either way, once that flag is thrown I don't understand how the officials wave it off without an explanation.

[Jas_lov]

There was a call earlier in the game where they called defensive holding on Carolina when it was on the completely opposite side of the field from where Brady threw it. Why is that called but not that last play? The player on the opposite side of the field never could have caught the ball because it wasn't thrown in his direction. If they want to rule that last play is not PI because it's not catchable, fine, but it should have been holding and one final play for the Patriots.

[jeff061]

Because holding and interference aren't the same thing.

[Jas_lov]

That's why I said holding should have been called, not PI, just as it was on that other play.

[bhlloy]

That's as big a choke job as you'll ever see from a group of officials. Even if you don't rule PI, how you can just wave it off without calling it holding is ridiculous. As they were huddling you could tell they were looking for a way to get out of there without the crowd turning really ugly.

And really it bailed out a boneheaded move by the best young defensive player in football. Even on a hail mary I've never seen someone tackled out of the back of the end zone so obviously. Hey, he got away with it. But those refs should be suspended.

[bhlloy]

I bet they dont pick up that flag if the game if in Foxborough.

No way to prove it but I'd bet my house and car on that. Home cooking at it's best.

[SnowMan]

So that's not PI because the ball was uncatchable, but the one on Richard Sherman that sailed 15+ yards past the receiver was PI because it was catchable...gotcha. Stupid inconsistent officiating.

[PilotMan]

I was under the impression that it was ruled that way because it was picked. If the ball isn't picked and is incomplete it's PI. That's at least what was explained last night, but I really don't know about it.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Why wasn't it defensive holding?

[Logan]

I was under the impression that it was ruled that way because it was picked. If the ball isn't picked and is incomplete it's PI. That's at least what was explained last night, but I really don't know about it.

That explanation was by former official Gerry Austin, who Tirico and Gruden had in the booth after the game (I wasn't watching but saw it replayed on ESPN this morning). I've seen Austin give explanations a few times this year, and each time he seems out of his mind. He said "if the ball is tipped or intercepted, it's not PI". I know the "tipping" part only matters if the contact occurs after the ball is deflected, and I've never the INT part called before, unless he was trying to say if the contact occurred afterwards there too (which would be very obvious).

edit: Speaking of Austin, scrolling back through my Twitter timeline:

Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 8h
5. Gerry Austin is delusional.

Jimmy Traina ‏@JimmyTraina 8h
No exaggeration: I can't remember the last time I saw someone on TV more lost than Gerry Austin. This is borderline sad.

[Dr. Sak]

Two things of note:

The calling official NEVER knows the catchability of a pass. If he does then he isn't doing his job of watching his key. That's where he gets help from the two deep wings to know the catchability of the ball.

Second thing...I am not certain in the NFL Rule book but in the NCAA CFO test there was this exact play. (Pass inteference downfield a few yards from where the ball was intercepted). And in that play there is no pass inteference by rule. I would bet that there is a similar play in the NFL book because this one just came into the NCAA book this year and it's normally a trickle down effect.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'm only seeing replays, did not watch last night.

May need a PING Dr Sak, but my question is:

Official threw the flag for DPI. Another official confers and says no DPI, uncatchable. Can the 1st official modify his call to defensive holding?

I'll buy the 'no DPI because uncatchable', but it's clearly holding then.

How many times do you see a holding call bring back a kickoff/punt return, and the hold occurs 20 yards away, opposite side of the field? Still gets called, even if there is no impact to the play.

EDIT TO ADD:

Damn...he read my mind!

[Dr. Sak]

Official threw the flag for DPI. Another official confers and says no DPI, uncatchable. Can the 1st official modify his call to defensive holding?


Defensive holding is always prior to the pass...so if he deemed all actions prior to the ball being in the air legal (and he did cause he called DPI which is while the ball is in the air), then he can't change that DPI into a DH.

[Logan]

Defensive holding is always prior to the pass...so if he deemed all actions prior to the ball being in the air legal (and he did cause he called DPI which is while the ball is in the air), then he can't change that DPI into a DH.

This was what I thought as well (holding only before the pass) but got a bit tripped up when the ESPN guys (Dilfer especially) were going nuts about how if it was uncatchable, it had to be defensive holding.

So I guess it should have been illegal contact then? 5 yards and a replay?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Defensive holding is always prior to the pass...so if he deemed all actions prior to the ball being in the air legal (and he did cause he called DPI which is while the ball is in the air), then he can't change that DPI into a DH.

Makes sense

[Dr. Sak]

So I guess it should have been illegal contact then? 5 yards and a replay?

I can't really answer that one because I am not familar with the illegal contact foul. My assumption is that it is also prior to the pass.

I only got to see the play two times while eating breakfast this morning but I would be interested to see it again and to see who actually created the contact prior to the pass (if any).

[Logan]

I can't really answer that one because I am not familar with the illegal contact foul. My assumption is that it is also prior to the pass.

Duh...of course it is. My bad.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Thanks Dr. Sak. It's odd to think that the ball is uncatchable in this instance because Gronk is in the area and any chance he could have had was taken from him.

[Logan]

BTW, Tom Brady is getting a tremendous pass here. That throw was terrible. You're throwing it to Gronk in coverage, it needs to be high.

[Dutch]

Never, ever, ever, thought I would say this, but I appreciate the hell out of Ray Lewis.

[Butter]

Yes, it is hard to help murder people and cover it all up after. That guy really knows his stuff.

[Dr. Sak]

On a side note...this play was one of 2 questions I missed on my CFO 100 point test earlier this year.

[JPhillips]

Yes, it is hard to help murder people and cover it all up after. That guy really knows his stuff.

He didn't kill no mothafuckin lion.

[ISiddiqui]

Thanks Dr. Sak. Totally makes more sense of the play - they should have you on to give commentary on officiating plays ;).

[JeeberD]

REPORT: Former Falcons LB Thomas Howard died in horrific crash... | Atlanta Falcons | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-falcons/2013/nov/18/report-former-falcons-lb-thomas-howard-died-horrif/)

This is so horrible. He's a former UTEP linebacker...he actually walked-on at UTEP as a safety and worked his way into an early 2nd round pick. By all accounts he was a great person, very down to earth and very giving. I'm afraid that the fact that he made a stupid mistake and it cost another man his life is going to overshadow all that.

RIP, THo.

[Lathum]

This is so horrible. He's a former UTEP linebacker...he actually walked-on at UTEP as a safety and worked his way into an early 2nd round pick. By all accounts he was a great person, very down to earth and very giving. I'm afraid that the fact that he made a stupid mistake and it cost another man his life is going to overshadow all that.

RIP, THo.

It is a shame that he didn't just kill himself.

[EagleFan]

It is a shame that he didn't just kill himself.

Always hate is when someone doing something stupid ends up killing someone completely unrelated.

[gstelmack]

If that is a valid no-call on Gronk, the rule needs changing like the Tuck Rule. Watching the replays, he is starting to try and break back for the ball as Keuchly holds him, giving him no chance to get back for it. Sorry, the defense now has license to tackle the receiver if the ball is underthrown, if any defenders are in any position to get a hand on it? Seriously?

The thing about this is, they were calling a relatively tight game. Drive after drive was sustained on both sides thanks to defensive penalties. THAT'S the one they overrule and decide not to call?

Of course, with Brady's accuracy on the drive, there is no guarantee they would have punched it in on the extra play. And Ridley's fumble in the red zone in the first half was a killer that put them in a hole they had to dig out of. And they really needed a TD instead of a FG after the defense got them the key stop. So that call was not a "cost us the game" call. But it sure was annoying to have such a good game tarnished by that as a finish. Carolina shouldn't have to live with that kind of asterisk for going toe-to-toe with New England all game.

Also, FWIW, I was there at the game, and MBBF and his KC-noise can kiss my butt - that stadium was ROCKING for that final New England drive. Everyone on their feet, everyone cheering, we were half-deaf leaving the stadium. Was a great crowd, and a pretty good stadium experience, except for the fact that we got maybe one video replay after most plays, long after the play.

[Glengoyne]

If that is a valid no-call on Gronk, the rule needs changing like the Tuck Rule. Watching the replays, he is starting to try and break back for the ball as Keuchly holds him, giving him no chance to get back for it. Sorry, the defense now has license to tackle the receiver if the ball is underthrown, if any defenders are in any position to get a hand on it? Seriously?

The thing about this is, they were calling a relatively tight game. Drive after drive was sustained on both sides thanks to defensive penalties. THAT'S the one they overrule and decide not to call?



That is what I thought as well. There was pass interference before the ball was uncatchable. Once the LB initiates the tackle with the ball in the air, all bets should be off on calling it uncatchable because it was intercepted "upfield" of where the receiver and LB ended up.

[Julio Riddols]

Looks to me like that ball would have been picked anyway. There was no way Gronkowski was going to be able to come back and get that the way his body was turned. The DB would have had just as easy a shot at it.

[Arles]

Here's what I don't understand. You can have a play that's close to the ball but called "uncatchable" so no PI. Yet, you can have holding when the runner is well past the play and it gets called back. That just doesn't make sense to me. Why is it OK to PI if the pass is 5 yards away but not OK to hold when the runner is five yards past where the hold happens?

[Dr. Sak]

Here's what I don't understand. You can have a play that's close to the ball but called "uncatchable" so no PI. Yet, you can have holding when the runner is well past the play and it gets called back. That just doesn't make sense to me. Why is it OK to PI if the pass is 5 yards away but not OK to hold when the runner is five yards past where the hold happens?

Takedown holds are always called no matter when they occur. Also don't confuse when the flag is thrown as to when the hold occurs. The restriction may habe begun when the runner was before or at the hole, but the flag usually won't come out till after the runner is through the hole. Mainly because it is the NFL philosophy that if a defender is being restricted and makes the tackle, the restriction wasn't enough to be classified as a hold. Or if a player is restricted and his teammate makes a tackle at the point of restriction, holding is not called cause there was no advantage on the play.

[BishopMVP]

Looks to me like that ball would have been picked anyway. There was no way Gronkowski was going to be able to come back and get that the way his body was turned. The DB would have had just as easy a shot at it.I kind of agree here - at best Gronk could have come back and broken up the pick, but probably wasn't catching that clean - but that brings up the question of just how catchable is uncatchable? Take Kuechly's interference out of the play and Gronk could at least have gotten back to the spot where the ball would have landed; and Kuechly's interference did begin after the ball was thrown but well before it was actually intercepted, and at the same time the safety passed Gronk going towards the ball. So it's exceedingly unlikely Gronk would have caught the ball, but not impossible like if it was thrown 10 yards over his head out of bounds.

It's also interesting considering how used to hearing about our LB's deficiencies in coverage that Luke Kuechly got beat over the top 3 times on that last drive (initial Gronk catch, Vereen drop on the wheel route, final play). Don't get me wrong, I would take him in a second for any of our defensive players, but it goes to show that in the NFL even the best players are susceptible to getting beat.

Btw, does anyone have a .gif of the Devin McCourty "hold" that extended the Panthers winning drive when Greg Olsen hooked his arm and flopped to the ground? I can't seem to find it.Kyle Arrington - check. Touchdown - check.The usual I can only see what the TV shows caveats apply, but I actually thought Arrington had his best game on the outside as a Patriot - he's not Marquice Cole! And this week is now terrifying - Talib is still battling the hip problem, Gregory and Dennard are out, so it's probably McCourty at his weaker CB position with Arrington and Ryan, and Harmon + the horrible Ebner/Wilson combination at safety. I honestly don't see why we don't sign a Nnamdi Asomugha, Perrish Cox, or Ras-I Dowling off the Jets practice squad in place of Cole. And I don't care if Kerry Rhodes is gay, he's better than Nate Ebner and Tavon Wilson at safety (although I like Tavon as a backup for his special teams play.)

[RendeR]

Once the ball is "in the air" you can't have defensive holding. All the comments about "Then they have to call the hold" are inane, they do not relate to this play. Any holding that did happen was after the ball was in flight. So the only call COULD be PI.

With the receiver running AWAY from the ball a defender between the receiver and the player making the interception (remember a defender has the right to hold his ground, hence Gronk would never have gotten anywhere near the player making the pick regardless of the contact.) and the ball being severely under-thrown all add up to the ball being un-catchable by the receiver.

Its a mad-complicated play but in the end they called it right.

[gstelmack]

With the receiver running AWAY from the ball a defender between the receiver and the player making the interception (remember a defender has the right to hold his ground, hence Gronk would never have gotten anywhere near the player making the pick regardless of the contact.) and the ball being severely under-thrown all add up to the ball being un-catchable by the receiver.

When I watched the replays, Gronk is just starting to come back just as Keuchly hits him and gets carried to the back of the end zone. The ball is picked off pretty close to where Gronk is first hit, as he's trying to slow up for it. Receivers, including good receiving TEs, can stop and come back for those all the time when they aren't hit.

I actually think the entire play went down as both sides wanted it to, except for Brady's ball being slightly underthrown. I think Gronk was running basically a curl, heading towards the back, stopping and coming back to near the goal line to catch the pass. Carolina knew it, had the DB ready to compete / undercut, and because it was the final play told Keuchly to make sure Gronk doesn't catch it (intentional PI to prevent the TD).

Heck, I'd argue if this is an "example" play as Dr. Sak talks about, I could make a case that Keuchly was told to carry Gronk out of the area so the DB could make the pick or at least get a hand on it and nullify the PI. And that's part of my problem with the rule if this was called correctly - it makes that a legitimate play for the defense.

Let me ask this: how high does the ball have to be for this to be ruled PI? 3 feet higher off the ground so the DB can remain standing to pick it off? 6 feet? Actually hit Gronk and Keuchly? Where's the line here?

To answer the opposite question, I think if it clanks before the goal line (say about 5 yards further upfield than where it was picked off), I'd rule it uncatchable.

[gstelmack]

Dean Blandino: Officials made judgment call Monday - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000284755/article/dean-blandino-officials-made-judgment-call-monday)

"The issue isn't the contact," Blandino said Tuesday. "The issue is the restriction. Does it occur when prior to the ball being touched? And at full speed, the officials made a tight judgment call and they determined that the restriction occurred just as the ball was being touched. And again, at full speed, you could see why they made that call."

So they decided that Keuchly didn't impede Gronk's progress back to the ball until it was already being picked off and that's why it wasn't a penalty? I think I feel worse about this call now.

But I will reemphasize for those who missed it earlier - this would only have lead to one more attempt that may well have failed, and Carolina certainly earned a win, I just hate that it had to end on something like this.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think we're losing focus on the fact that the Chiefs suck with all this banter about officials.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think we're losing focus on the fact that the Chiefs suck with all this banter about officials.

:)

[BillJasper]

I think we're losing focus on the fact that the Chiefs suck with all this banter about officials.

No one has said they suck.

Just that their offense is going to have to score more points to go deep in the playoffs.

[Logan]

No one has said they suck.

Just that their offense is going to have to score more points to go deep in the playoffs.

MBBF is just enjoying his remaining time basking in the glow of the board turning against TroyF and his anti-Chiefs stance.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No one has said they suck.

Just that their offense is going to have to score more points to go deep in the playoffs.

I'm THRILLED that my team's main issue 10 games into the season is how far they can go in the playoffs. There's roughly about 25-28 other fan bases that would give anything for that problem right now.

[cartman]

This is awesome:

NFL officials feel heat after controversy in 49ers-Saints, Patriots-Panthers (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/19/nfl-officials-feel-heat-after-controversial-calls-49ers-saints-patriots-panthers/3646043/)

"We as officials have always been taught, for a ball to be uncatchable, it has to be clearly out of the field of play or it has to be a kind of — I probably shouldn't say this — a Tim Tebow-type pass that lands 15 yards in front of you."

[Julio Riddols]

Man, Tebow burned out quick. Can't believe the guy never felt like trying to play TE/H-back with his size. Probably could have actually been a good TE and probably would have started if he was with the Pats. The trick plays Belichick would have drawn up to have the TE/H-back throw the ball would have been fun to see.

As it is, I am glad he is out of the league because he is the guy that officially killed ESPN for me. And to think he did that just by being a guy Skip Bayless defended so vehemently.

[molson]

"We as officials have always been taught, for a ball to be uncatchable, it has to be clearly out of the field of play or it has to be a kind of — I probably shouldn't say this — a Tim Tebow-type pass that lands 15 yards in front of you."

They need to put that example in the rule book, then everyone would understand it.

[BillJasper]

I'm THRILLED that my team's main issue 10 games into the season is how far they can go in the playoffs. There's roughly about 25-28 other fan bases that would give anything for that problem right now.

I'm the type that I don't want to watch my team go to the playoffs and flame out in the first round because they can't score any points.

[cartman]

Dierdorf is stepping away from the booth after this season.

CBS Sports' Dan Dierdorf to retire after 2013 NFL season - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24250423/cbs-sports-dan-dierdorf-to-retire-after-2013-nfl-season)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm the type that I don't want to watch my team go to the playoffs and flame out in the first round because they can't score any points.

I KNEW I could get this thread back on track.

[Radii]

I just hate that it had to end on something like this.

Yep.

Thanks for the report from the game, btw. The crowd and atmosphere seemed really, really great on the TV Broadcast, I'm glad to hear from someone who was there that it actually was.

[larrymcg421]

I'm the type that wants my team to always go to the playoffs no matter what, and if they flame out in the first round, that's better than flaming out in week 17, or week 16, or week 15....

I'm also the type that wishes people would quit saying things that make me take MBBF's side.

[RomaGoth]

Man, Tebow burned out quick. Can't believe the guy never felt like trying to play TE/H-back with his size. Probably could have actually been a good TE and probably would have started if he was with the Pats. The trick plays Belichick would have drawn up to have the TE/H-back throw the ball would have been fun to see.

As it is, I am glad he is out of the league because he is the guy that officially killed ESPN for me. And to think he did that just by being a guy Skip Bayless defended so vehemently.

You had me at Skip Bayless.

[gstelmack]

BTW, my favorite moment from the game was Gostkowski's last FG. The wind was really whipping around, but it died when he kicked it. Where we were sitting in the end zone, it was coming right at us, with the goal post off to one side, a clear miss. Everyone around us is starting to get up to cheer, then the wind comes back, catches it, and pushes it a good 40 degrees off course back just inside the post at the last possible second. All coming right at us.

That was awesome to witness, and not something you really get to experience on TV.

[Radii]

I'm the type that wants my team to always go to the playoffs no matter what, and if they flame out in the first round, that's better than flaming out in week 17, or week 16, or week 15....

I'm also the type that wishes people would quit saying things that make me take MBBF's side.

+1 to all of this!

[molson]

I KNEW I could get this thread back on track.

Ya, if there's one thing this board is lacking it's Missouri sports talk.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ya, if there's one thing this board is lacking it's Missouri sports talk.

When you're a state that has multiple NFL and MLB teams, you tend to get talked about a bit more.

[Alan T]

I'm THRILLED that my team's main issue 10 games into the season is how far they can go in the playoffs. There's roughly about 25-28 other fan bases that would give anything for that problem right now.


I hate to say it but the Chiefs and Falcons swapped places evidently this year.

Last season, every one was expecting the Falcons to lose in the first round even though they had a great record and the Chiefs only won 2 games. This season the Chiefs have the great record and aren't expected to do much in the playoffs, while the Falcons may only end up with 2 wins this year.

[BillJasper]

When you're a state that has multiple NFL and MLB teams, you tend to get talked about a bit more.

Give it another year or two and you may only have one NFL team.

[molson]

When you're a state that has multiple NFL and MLB teams, you tend to get talked about a bit more.

Other people making a few posts about some of the less important states and teams won't kill you though.

[albionmoonlight]

Dierdorf is stepping away from the booth after this season.

CBS Sports' Dan Dierdorf to retire after 2013 NFL season - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24250423/cbs-sports-dan-dierdorf-to-retire-after-2013-nfl-season)

I'll miss him. He makes me think of Monday Night Football back when I was a kid/teenager and watched it religiously.

[gstelmack]

When you're a state that has multiple NFL and MLB teams, you tend to get talked about a bit more.

Florida?

[molson]

I'll miss him. He makes me think of Monday Night Football back when I was a kid/teenager and watched it religiously.

It's amazing to me how much hostility people have towards announcers. I don't pay enough attention to know which ones are considered "good" these days, but it seems like any discussion of any announcers brings to the surface a lot of very angry people, per the comments after that article, and a million others I've seen.

But I liked Dierdorf. Of course, I kind of liked Tim McCarver, so I think I just have a very different idea of what these guys are supposed to be doing. I guess I just prefer the older former players, even with their occasional ramblings and misunderstandings of modern ways (and if it were up to me, there would be more confusing old-timey references.)