Draft Kings (Daily fantasy football)

[EagleFan]

Okay, found out how to invite. Didn't see that button on my contests screen.

Let me know your name and I will send out an invite.

[Comey]

I'm jcomey.

[Dutch]

mikecboom

[murrayyyyy]

Any interest in an FOFC week 2 contest on Draft Kings? Never created one but I guess this would be possible.

This is pretty much how I told some people the best scenario seems to play out. Find 10-20 guys and do a private league. If you run short of guys you can send an invite to murrayyyyy but I'll hold out if others want to join first.

[EagleFan]

Going with a small group first. Will expand throughout the season if we start getting more interest.

[murrayyyyy]

lineup is in.

[Chief Rum]

chiefrum





Shocking, I know...

[Vince, Pt. II]

I should have used my fantasy football team in one of these for week one:

QB Tom Brady
RB Jeremy Hill
RB Carlos Hyde
WR Calvin Johnson
WR DeAndre Hopkins
Flex Andre Ellington
TE Tyler Eifert
K Matt Bryant
D New York Jets

[Logan]

I should have used my fantasy football team in one of these for week one:

QB Tom Brady
RB Jeremy Hill
RB Carlos Hyde
WR Calvin Johnson
WR DeAndre Hopkins
Flex Andre Ellington
TE Tyler Eifert
K Matt Bryant
D New York Jets

No kickers on Draft Kings...but the good news is this would have fit under the $50K salary cap.

The bad news is you'd be short one starter and only have, at best, about a third of the money left for a subpar flex.

[muns]

Okay, found out how to invite. Didn't see that button on my contests screen.

Let me know your name and I will send out an invite.

EF is there is room, I would like to join.

User name is muns

[EagleFan]

Sent invites

[Vince, Pt. II]

No kickers on Draft Kings...but the good news is this would have fit under the $50K salary cap.

The bad news is you'd be short one starter and only have, at best, about a third of the money left for a subpar flex.

We have some odd scoring rules in our league (mostly the defenses), but that lineup was good for 197 this week. Figured this is about the only place to possibly brag about it :)

[kingfc22]

Kingfc22 for the invite

[kingfc22]

Just realized DK has single entry tournaments. I'll likely enter in one of these plus a few double/triple up games for week 2.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Reads a lot like the boom phase of poker.......

You Aren't Good Enough to Win Money Playing Daily Fantasy*Football - Bloomberg Business (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/you-aren-t-good-enough-to-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-football)

[Suicane75]

Thing is, if you were competent at poker, you COULD make money. Hell, I know I'm no great shakes and I made about $40,000 over a couple of years playing poker. I'm 10 times more knowledgeable about sports and after 3 months of playing daily fantasy baseball I realized I was just throwing money down the drain. Even the big buy in, smaller sized, big money tournaments, unless you have the perfect team, you're only triple or quadrupling your buy in, so you lose it on another day.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Thing is, if you were competent at poker, you COULD make money. Hell, I know I'm no great shakes and I made about $40,000 over a couple of years playing poker. I'm 10 times more knowledgeable about sports and after 3 months of playing daily fantasy baseball I realized I was just throwing money down the drain. Even the big buy in, smaller sized, big money tournaments, unless you have the perfect team, you're only triple or quadrupling your buy in, so you lose it on another day.

I'm assuming you didn't read the article to see what the single entry types are up against. There are sharks who are betting $100,000-150,000 a day on these events and getting between 100-300 winning entries in some of these events. They're basically covering all their bases with a lot of entries and also are using predictive models to cover those bases. It's impressive to say the least.

[jbergey22]

I'm assuming you didn't read the article to see what the single entry types are up against. There are sharks who are betting $100,000-150,000 a day on these events and getting between 100-300 winning entries in some of these events. They're basically covering all their bases with a lot of entries and also are using predictive models to cover those bases. It's impressive to say the least.

You just have to find your niche. Play lots of double and triple ups and it is easy enough to make a profit. If you swing for the fences on these top end payout heavy 1 million payout tournys it is very difficult to keep a steady stream of income coming in.

[Julio Riddols]

I just play dollar and quarter games mostly because its fun to have a little something riding on the games. If I ever hit a big time lineup and steal a top prize in one of the big tournaments, it'll be well worth it. If not, I probably end up cashing out 50 bucks at the end of the year for the 25 I put in, and I will probably use that for something fun. I find that generally 2 double ups and a couple flyers in big tournaments and I break even at worst.

[SegRat]

first time playing. Not a good week.

[murrayyyyy]

10 pts from my RBs and def combined! Hot fiya

[Chief Rum]

10 pts from my RBs and def combined! Hot fiya

At least you didn't finish in last!

[bhlloy]

Had my first fanduel win, only 70 bucks but enough to bankroll another couple of weeks

[EagleFan]

Close to bragging rights. :-)

[EagleFan]

I can up it to ten players this week.

[murrayyyyy]

I can up it to ten players this week.

Your choice boss. I'm just hoping to do better this week. It just increases my odds of finishing in the bottom half again :p

[EagleFan]

Created a 10 player (excluding Thursday game to give us time to fill). Sent out invites to those in last week and kingfc22 who missed the start of that one. If all join we'll need another player to fill the 10 spots.

[EagleFan]

Week 2 Results:

1) CleBrownsFan 158.36
2) EagleFan 150.16
3) muns 147.62
4) Comey 112.5
5) murrayyyyy 111.86
6) Lathum 111.38
7) Dutch 108.4
8) Chief Rum 107.5

[EagleFan]

Congrats to CleBrownsFan (thought I had it going into Monday :)).

[Julio Riddols]

How much is it to play?

[EagleFan]

How much is it to play?

Just for bragging rights.

[TCY Junkie]

anyone play yahoo daily fantasy. i got 122 points last week and good for 40th out of 200. was a double up so i won.

[Julio Riddols]

Just for bragging rights.

I'll get in on it then, form_an_opinion is my user name.

[Comey]

Are we running this back this week?

[jbergey22]

Id like to be in if I can. User name is jbergey

[dolfin]

I'd like to jump in if you have room for another too. I'm kwmcnutt

[murrayyyyy]

Lineup is in, still not sure how I beat 3 people.

[Julio Riddols]

I got my lineup in... Not sure how I really feel about it just yet, but I'm leaning heavily on one game for points. A little experiment.

[Senator]

I signed up with 100 bucks and got the 100 eventual match.
I played a rookie 50/50 and and double up. Interested to see where in the pecking order I would land. Ended up winning in both campaigns. 28 dollars total winnings. Had to wait until Monday to see if I would be caught by other players as I slinked back to the left. I had no plan, no anything, I just picked by my gut. The pure sucker strategy that makes this a fools errand.

[Dutch]

My strategy relies on Bill Belicheck...a lot. :)

[Julio Riddols]

My strategy relies on Bill Belicheck...a lot. :)

I think we're on the same page.

[cartman]

PokerStars is now getting in on the daily fantasy sports action.

Daily Fantasy Sport Leagues for real money - StarsDraft (http://www.StarsDraft.com)

[Suicane75]

Great, more commercials.

[Suicane75]

I just realized I have a Draft Kings account from when they bought Draft Street. If there's room, shoot me an invite. Suicane is the handle.

[EagleFan]

We've got a full 10 players already for this week. I'll up it to 12 players next week.

[muns]

I haven't figured out exactly what I like playing yet. I did 20 entries this week. Lost 10 bucks last week thanks to Brees injury, but that's part of the game :)

I have found by spreading it around with multiple entries into different contests you can make some money. But I find it fun having a little bit extra on games to make it even more fun for me to watch football on sundays

[murrayyyyy]

Well this will probably be regrets week as I had a stacked Seahawks lineup and backed out for a different strategy.

[Senator]

full disclosure - 2 entries. no payout. 20 bucks.

[murrayyyyy]

Reminder of why I don't play. I think 189 is good until I click on live contests. How the hell are people scoring over 300?

[muns]

Reminder of why I don't play. I think 189 is good until I click on live contests. How the hell are people scoring over 300?

I can certainly relate. After tonight, as long as Travis Kelce gets me 9 or more points, ill make around 20 bucks. If I didn't chose COOK as my damn TE this week, it would have been more, but unless you hit on EVERY SINGLE guy at every position, you aren't gonna make any real money, unless you are doing the small 50/50 or 3/3 leagues. That is where I think I am going to take my shots next week.

Still trying to figure out how to play, but as each week passes, I realize more and more what the hell is actually going on.

[GoldenEagle]

Reminder of why I don't play. I think 189 is good until I click on live contests. How the hell are people scoring over 300?

He got lucky and had Randle, Freeman, and Blount in the same lineup. I was in on all of those guys but had them scattered around.

I think he had a Newton/Olsen stack as well with Fitzgerald throw in for a bonus.

To win a GPP, you got to get very lucky (obviously) and find some low percentage owned guys to set you apart.

[murrayyyyy]

He got lucky and had Randle, Freeman, and Blount in the same lineup. I was in on all of those guys but had them scattered around.

I think he had a Newton/Olsen stack as well with Fitzgerald throw in for a bonus.

To win a GPP, you got to get very lucky (obviously) and find some low percentage owned guys to set you apart.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that getting around 190 is a respectable score. I just didn't play a lot of NFL last year so I had no clue if it's a good score for contests.

[Julio Riddols]

190 will typically get you in the money. 170 will too.. but 220 and up is where you're looking at something special usually.

[GoldenEagle]

I got 3 lineups ITM (for now) out of 7 this week in the millionaire maker:

-One had 206. Had Brady/Gronk stack and Gronk not having a Gronk-type day hurt. Also had John Brown and he didn't do much.
-Next one had 176.8. Forte and Heyward-Bey kept this one from creeping up the scoreboard.
-Next had 172. Also had John Brown in this one.

Those last two may not cash depending on what Rogers does tonight and how high is owning percentage is.

Some other lineups had Big Ben and a Jaguars stack that was surrounded by studs that didn't work out.

Anyway, I have been having a ton of fun with this and has gotten back into the NFL when I really haven't watched the last few years. I am looking forward to the NBA and maybe MLB next year.

EDIT - But the plus side of Gronk not having a good day means that some of my fringe lineups could cash. I am also doing well in both of my 50/50s that I entered.

[EagleFan]

I can certainly relate. After tonight, as long as Travis Kelce gets me 9 or more points, ill make around 20 bucks. If I didn't chose COOK as my damn TE this week, it would have been more, but unless you hit on EVERY SINGLE guy at every position, you aren't gonna make any real money, unless you are doing the small 50/50 or 3/3 leagues. That is where I think I am going to take my shots next week.

Still trying to figure out how to play, but as each week passes, I realize more and more what the hell is actually going on.

I have generally started playing the double up contests primarily. A smart lineup can get you in the positive (or several smart lineups as I spread it around a little). For the big money contests I may throw in an entry here and there but it is really a crap shoot. You need to be lucky to be "that guy" who hit on the big return/low price guys. Generally the lineup that you wouldn't really want if you were playing a normal fantasy football league.

[EagleFan]

Looking around +28% this week. Not bad. Could have been a little better if not for Maclin the last two drives.

[EagleFan]

Why didn't they measure that? That seemed awfully close even with the bad spot.

sorry, wrong thread...

[jbergey22]

Very competitive week. A lot of different variations of teams.

As for the earlier comments about needing 300 to win. This was an unusually high scoring week with a lot of great fantasy performances. Typically we dont see all of these games 30+ like we did this past week. AJ Green, Devanta Freeman, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Olson, Julio Jones.

What is up with Fitzgerald anyway? Seemed he was past his prime 5 years ago.

[EagleFan]

Week 3 Results:

1) jbergey22 193.22
2) murrayyyyy 188.18
3) EagleFan 173.32
4) kingfc22 171.02
5) muns 157.28
6) Julio Riddols 156.42
7) Comey 155.22
8) Chief Rum 153.52
9) dolfin 125.00
10) Dutch 121.12

[EagleFan]

Sent out invites for a 12 person league this week. Also one for a college league.

[murrayyyyy]

Sent out invites for a 12 person league this week. Also one for a college league.

Joined both. Holy christ I forgot how nuts NCAA is. (Oh thank god it's only morning games)

[SegRat]

SegRat77 is my name if you want more people next week.

[muns]

Sent out invites for a 12 person league this week. Also one for a college league.

EF I am going to pass on the college. Learned my lesson even with murrayyyyy coaching my way through it. I just don't know enough about they college guys to compete. Feel free to invite someone else in my spot who would want to be apart of it.

[Julio Riddols]

I joined both, but my college picks are completely based on the theory that teams that score a lot will have lots of viable players.

[thesloppy]

I made two sweet, sweet dollars in freerolls last week. That's like infinity ROI.

[EagleFan]

Anyone else that would be interested in jumping into our NFL or college "league" this week let me know. We still need a few more. It's only for fun and bragging rights (only reason I tried a college one for this because I have no clue when it comes to college).

[Subby]

Interested in a league if you ever need an extra guy. Subby5000.

[Radii]

DraftKings - Daily Fantasy Sports for Cash (https://www.draftkings.com/help/lol)

Holy crap draftkings is doing contests for the League of Legends World Championship. AWESOME.

[EagleFan]

One more spot open for the NFL "league" this weekend. Still 4 openings for the college one. Completely free, you can't be any worse than me with the college game. Give it a shot.

Let me know if you want invited.

[Julio Riddols]

Im guessing the college one didn't go off.. I was reasonably excited about my lineup of almost all Texas Tech and Baylor players.

[EagleFan]

We didn't fill that one.

[EagleFan]

Will try an eight player college one next week.

[murrayyyyy]

Since no one has really said anything yet. Any opinion on a guy who claims to only have the data for DK taking 2nd in a fanduel contest?

FanDuel & DraftKings Mishaps - DFS Report (https://dfsreport.com/6840/fanduel-draftkings-mishaps/)

[EagleFan]

There needs to be some regulation at this point. If not this will become like online poker was and then will be banned.

It is already getting sketchy with people using software to draft multiple teams.

The FanDuel one was the worst of the two offenses, in my opinion.

[Comey]

I had no idea who I was taking in the college one, but I did have Elliot and Connor Cook. I had a feeling I would have done okay.

Onto next week.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Since no one has really said anything yet. Any opinion on a guy who claims to only have the data for DK taking 2nd in a fanduel contest?

FanDuel & DraftKings Mishaps - DFS Report (https://dfsreport.com/6840/fanduel-draftkings-mishaps/)

As a poker player, I'm someone happy to see this come to the forefront. If they end up pushing for regulation of this industry, it bodes extremely well for a return of online poker to the rest of the U.S. in a regulated format.

[murrayyyyy]

As a poker player, I'm someone happy to see this come to the forefront. If they end up pushing for regulation of this industry, it bodes extremely well for a return of online poker to the rest of the U.S. in a regulated format.

Speaking as a gambler, it will never happen. Let's remember that "fantasy sports aren't gambling" because you are using stats and info to determine how many yards/touchdowns unlike gamblers who use stats and info to determine how much a team will win by (Love ya Goodell for saying this in testimony against legalized gambling in NJ).

League have their hand in the cookie jar now and it will never be overturned. The reason leagues can't get behind gambling is that casinos won't give them a cut.

[sabotai]

Signed up for FanDuel, username: JayFromNJ

[TheRivals40]

I tried playing a free game one Star Fantasy Leagues one week, didn't win, so I gave up.

This seems to me like a bit of a waste of money. Like I see betting a little bit of money, but putting down a lot and thinking you're going to win like the guy on the back of every fantasy magazine doesn't seem to smart. He probably either got insanely luck or spends his entire day analyzing the games and has some crazy formula which tells him helps him a ton. (Probably the latter)

[Senator]

I am currently sitting 19th out of 20 money spots, on a 60 dollar payout, Sunday only contest. 2 guys, one with Randle, the other with Ingram, both need about 12 to bump us out of a payout.

[Senator]

Garbage yards for Ingram gives that guy 4 short of knocking #20 out and moving me to 20 and last payout. My odds are poor.

[sabotai]

I'm way out of the money for the late Sunday $2 game I joined. I need Randle and Witten to light up in the second half to even have a shot.

And it pains me to have to cheer for Cowboys players... :p

[Senator]

I'm cashing out after this. I'm in 20th with no time left. Missed chip shot. Ingram needs 2 points to knock me out of the money. OT should slip me. I find no enjoyment in this. Should do something else.

[Senator]

I've learned a little about myself playing this. I find no enjoyment in the process. I know I'm not smarter than the system in place and even though I hung on to win 80 dollars on both my bets yesterday, the process itself was not fun. And it's mainly a psychology thing. I feel I have zero control in the outcome. There is nothing to do but beg fate and chance to look kindly on me. Not a huge fan of fate and chance. I never played poker, but I think with that, your actions in game make the difference in many cases. You are an active participant in your destiny. Many, many of my friends love the adrenaline of the day, begging some running back on a team they typically despise to save the day. I don't want to root for the Giants, Redskins, or Eagles. Ever. And especially for 80 bucks. Which, I could say, hey, it's 80 bucks,write it off for fun, and just go with it. I think I would rather buy a pizza, and not give a flip how Mark Ingram does in overtime.
So, it's a mind set I guess. I love competition, and thought I would get that same feeling, but for me I don't feel I'm being competitive, just spinning a roulette wheel. I like a more hands on, decision making activity that decides my outcome. I like to say, this is my fault, I called the wrong play, or was not as good as my opponent. Here, I feel like a sheep, and even though I'm up on my investment, and never even used the matching funds, I'm cashing out. I know everyone is different, and some guys say, "hey Senator, it's just to make the day more interesting, and I don't take it so serious." Which I envy.

[MikeVic]

I've learned a little about myself playing this. I find no enjoyment in the process. I know I'm not smarter than the system in place and even though I hung on to win 80 dollars on both my bets yesterday, the process itself was not fun. And it's mainly a psychology thing. I feel I have zero control in the outcome. There is nothing to do but beg fate and chance to look kindly on me. Not a huge fan of fate and chance. I never played poker, but I think with that, your actions in game make the difference in many cases. You are an active participant in your destiny. Many, many of my friends love the adrenaline of the day, begging some running back on a team they typically despise to save the day. I don't want to root for the Giants, Redskins, or Eagles. Ever. And especially for 80 bucks. Which, I could say, hey, it's 80 bucks,write it off for fun, and just go with it. I think I would rather buy a pizza, and not give a flip how Mark Ingram does in overtime.
So, it's a mind set I guess. I love competition, and thought I would get that same feeling, but for me I don't feel I'm being competitive, just spinning a roulette wheel. I like a more hands on, decision making activity that decides my outcome. I like to say, this is my fault, I called the wrong play, or was not as good as my opponent. Here, I feel like a sheep, and even though I'm up on my investment, and never even used the matching funds, I'm cashing out. I know everyone is different, and some guys say, "hey Senator, it's just to make the day more interesting, and I don't take it so serious." Which I envy.

Do you play fantasy sports at all? I've struggled with this mode of thinking in the past, where benching the wrong guy would eat at me for days after. I changed how I think about fantasy sports, and I think have successfully made it more light. I primarily do it for the discussions and social aspect. If I win great, if I lose whatever.

[Senator]

That's a healthy and normal approach to take. I think we all have different psychologies in play. I have always had a real aversion to being in competitive situations where I am mediocre. Golf for instance. I think playing golf with friends on a beautiful day, with some cold beers, and social talk is a normal thing for most people. But, I cannot stand to play shitty. Instead of laughing and blowing it off, I get tight and self abusing - not loud or outwardly angry - but internally upset with myself. Because I don't, can't, or won't practice enough to become proficient, I will not even participate, and focus my energies where I can be proficient and competitive. I do play in a fantasy league with about a dozen friends for the past 20 years, where it's just bragging rights, and I constantly collar myself not to over think everything and just flow. But the guys who don't check their teams for weeks, it makes me think, what the hell are you even doing this for.
So, I am self aware enough to know this doesn't fit my personality type. Because I know I will be very mediocre at it over time, even though I got lucky and I am up now. That's why Vegas has zero draw for me. I know I would show up, lose, and come home thinking why did I do that.
Don't judge me too harshly, I know it's silly to be like this.

[Logan]

I usually enjoying playing poker even when I lose, and that extends also to other casino games although to a bit of a lesser degree. I haven't cared much about fantasy for a few years now, in terms of beating myself up over bad decisions, getting annoyed by injuries/bad matchups, etc. I can roll with it.

Ever since I learned what DFS really is, I have had no enjoyment from it even when winning some money during week 1, and have no interest in playing it more once my meager bankroll is tapped.

[EagleFan]

What I enjoy the most about it (for DK) is that it gives me a reason to maybe watch a game that I otherwise wouldn't care less about.

For a standard league (FF with friends) it also does this but primarily is for the social aspect.

[Solecismic]

I was into fantasy baseball at a fairly high level in my 20s. I started studying all sorts of projections (I was a small contributor to the online piece that eventually became the Baseball Prospectus). It started taking all my down time (I was at IBM then). It came to a head in 1994. That was my third year in money leagues, and I had gone from making back the entry fees to really knowing what I was doing.

I was in this national league, sitting in the top five - the money would have been in the thousands. I was also in an expensive smaller duel-like league that had a decent payout, and clinched that league with weeks to go. And then the strike happened and I didn't see a penny of all that money.

During the strike, I realized it was consuming my life. And changing how I viewed sports. I never did play fantasy baseball again, but I tried to get into fantasy football in the late '90s and early '00s. Not with the same passion.

It became no fun. Rooting for specific players rather than just enjoying the games. So I stopped.

This Draft Kings/Fan Duel thing is interesting. I could see myself being one of those crazy people with thousands of entries. But it's gone from small companies advertised in sports publications to these massively funded corporations. And now we see that it's fairly corrupt (just imagine the advantage you can leverage with inside information about betting patterns to feed into your lineup code). I think it's for the best that I forget entirely about fantasy sports.

[sabotai]

It became no fun. Rooting for specific players rather than just enjoying the games. So I stopped.

That sums up my feelings about the one and only time I played in a fantasy football league. I'd rather watch and enjoy the games than cheer for the WR for one team and the QB for the other, cursing every time one of them runs the ball.

I tried out FanDuel mostly out of curiosity. I deposited $25 and only plan to play in $2 tournaments until the money runs out.

[murrayyyyy]

Log In - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?ref=sports&_r=0)

And now the Times is on it. DK's response, well they have guys winning off our site too. Yeah, not one bit of this is corrupt. Like i said, only way to play this anyone is with a group of guys you know or semi-know in a private league every week.

[murrayyyyy]

I also keep waiting for the next shoe to drop. (It is coming... it has to be, there is too much money involved for the next scenario to be found to be true)

People from these sites using lineups from the big $$$ players/winners and using that info on the other sites.

Next it will pop up that their employees are selling this information/emailing it to friends to help them win profits on their own companies sites as well as the other one. Almost to be looked at like insider trading.

[nol]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Lehman brothers and Merrill Lynch had been daily fantasy football sites they would of been so fucked</p>&mdash; PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/651186193057509376">October 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter">@PFTCommenter</a> good thing they were only internatonal banks. Talk about a close shave</p>&mdash; PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/651187290471985153">October 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[RainMaker]

Log In - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?ref=sports&_r=0)

And now the Times is on it. DK's response, well they have guys winning off our site too. Yeah, not one bit of this is corrupt. Like i said, only way to play this anyone is with a group of guys you know or semi-know in a private league every week.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Unless you have your own analytical team churning out data or have inside information like these guys do, you're dead money. I'd be shocked if employees at these companies weren't selling this data to sharps.

[RainMaker]

I also keep waiting for the next shoe to drop. (It is coming... it has to be, there is too much money involved for the next scenario to be found to be true)

People from these sites using lineups from the big $$$ players/winners and using that info on the other sites.

Next it will pop up that their employees are selling this information/emailing it to friends to help them win profits on their own companies sites as well as the other one. Almost to be looked at like insider trading.

This is certainly going on but there is no shoe to drop. The two main companies are heavily funded by groups and individuals with lobbying power in Washington. Gambling is legal in this country as long as your company pays off the right politicians.

[jbergey22]

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Unless you have your own analytical team churning out data or have inside information like these guys do, you're dead money. I'd be shocked if employees at these companies weren't selling this data to sharps.

I know numerous people making 30-60k(since 2011) per year doing this that are far from sharps. Paying attention to injuries, lineups, weather, and knowing how to find value is not insider information. This is being blown out of proportion. The info that was released is available just by entering lineups for the Thursday night games and looking at the lineups for Sundays games to see the percentage these players are owned. Winning these 1 million tournys is basically a lottery anyway. Being able to fund more lineups increases your odds. This is the only advantage the so called "sharps" may have.

If you are looking to make a consistent income doing this. Just play the smaller tournys and 50/50 games. There is enough fish out there to make it profitable even with professionals playing. The problem with playing professionally is the income stream isnt always steady and it is very time consuming. With the sites like Rotogrinders and more daily fantasy sites out there to share info the edge has become smaller.

https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/jbergey

[RainMaker]

I know numerous people making 30-60k(since 2011) per year doing this that are far from sharps. Paying attention to injuries, lineups, weather, and knowing how to find value is not insider information. This is being blown out of proportion. The info that was released is available just by entering lineups for the Thursday night games and looking at the lineups to see the percentage these players are owned. Winning these 1 million tournys is basically a lottery anyway. Being able to fund more lineups increases your odds. This is the only advantage the so called "sharps" may have.

If you are looking to make a consistent income doing this. Just play the smaller tournys and 50/50 games. There is enough fish out there to make it profitable even with professionals playing. The problem with playing professionally is the income stream isnt always steady and it is very time consuming. With the sites like Rotogrinders and more daily fantasy sites out there to share info the edge has become smaller.

It's not just knowing who owns who. It's the fact that employees have access to these lineups and can use them on other sites. They can take the top players lineups and install them elsewhere. This puts everyone at a disadvantage.

It goes beyond just this Haskell guy winning. You can claim that's just luck I guess. But the guy in charge of salaries at FanDuel is near the top of the leaderboards over the past 6 months at RotoGrinders. You think this stuff is all a coincidence?

[jbergey22]

It's not just knowing who owns who. It's the fact that employees have access to these lineups and can use them on other sites. They can take the top players lineups and install them elsewhere. This puts everyone at a disadvantage.

It goes beyond just this Haskell guy winning. You can claim that's just luck I guess. But the guy in charge of salaries at FanDuel is near the top of the leaderboards over the past 6 months at RotoGrinders. You think this stuff is all a coincidence?

Most of the guys these sites hired to do the salaries were just your average fantasy player at one time. They may have won a big tourny or became a host on one of the shows or became a ad because of their success. Many of the successful players from the Wild West of daily fantasy 2009-2011 used their success to branch off and do other things in the business. Ethan Haskell for example used to run the Rotogrinders site. He did a fabulous job of creating ideas and research so he was hired by Draftkings do help fix their loose salaries.

All of the sites have many of the top players working for them. However these guys were all top players before working for the company. And in most cases were only hired because of the success they had before they were employed for the company they now work for.

Basically they won a big tourny or two, Rotogrinders would hire them to do shows and write articles on how to have success, Fanduel/Draftkings then became heavily funded and hired many of these Rotogrinders people for different reasons(promotion, research, TV) because they had built a reputation in the business.

[RainMaker]

Most of the guys these sites hired to do the salaries were just your average fantasy player at one time. They may have won a big tourny or became a host on one of the shows or became a ad because of their success. Many of the successful players from the Wild West of daily fantasy 2009-2011 used their success to branch off and do other things in the business. Ethan Haskell for example used to run the Rotogrinders site. He did a fabulous job of creating ideas and research so he was hired by Draftkings do help fix their loose salaries.

All of the sites have many of the top players working for them. However these guys were all top players before working for the company. And in most cases were only hired because of the success they had before they were employed for the company they now work for.

Basically they won a big tourny or two, Rotogrinders would hire them to do shows and write articles on how to have success, Fanduel/Draftkings then became heavily funded and hired many of these Rotogrinders people for different reasons(promotion, research, TV) because they had built a reputation in the business.

Now they are top players who have access to the lineups the other top players are using and can use that data to compete against people who don't have that information.

[EagleFan]

Damn. That fumble cost me a chance at a decent payday. Still a little ahead but I could have jumped to a really decent result.

[jbergey22]

Now they are top players who have access to the lineups the other top players are using and can use that data to compete against people who don't have that information.

Like I said. Enter a team on the Thursday night games for a quarter in a big tourny. You have the same information and will be able to look at all of the teams in the tourny and see the percentages owned. Plus just because a player is heavily owned in one site doesnt mean they will be heavily owned in another. The salaries and lineups are different. DK is a 2 QB format, FD is a 1. Plus they have other things that are different.

Minimal advantage at the most in these lottery style big tournys. In the smaller tournys and d-ups I see no real advantage. If you need value plays all you need to do is go to the numerous websites that give this information out for free.

[Logan]

The guy who won the $350K was making a killing on MLB games during August on FD, after having very meager results for the prior 2 years.

I don't have all the data, but there's allegedly a FD employee who was also having ridiculous results on DK at the same time that this was going on. A possible coincidence? Sure. But just as likely they were swapping the info they had access to.

It's ridiculous to try and argue that having access to that information isn't a major advantage, when way before this story broke, any article you read on basic strategy for these tournaments would make the point on how it's so important to grab volatile players who are likely to have low ownership percentages.

[Kodos]

I've learned a little about myself playing this. I find no enjoyment in the process. I know I'm not smarter than the system in place and even though I hung on to win 80 dollars on both my bets yesterday, the process itself was not fun. And it's mainly a psychology thing. I feel I have zero control in the outcome. There is nothing to do but beg fate and chance to look kindly on me. Not a huge fan of fate and chance. I never played poker, but I think with that, your actions in game make the difference in many cases. You are an active participant in your destiny. Many, many of my friends love the adrenaline of the day, begging some running back on a team they typically despise to save the day. I don't want to root for the Giants, Redskins, or Eagles. Ever. And especially for 80 bucks. Which, I could say, hey, it's 80 bucks,write it off for fun, and just go with it. I think I would rather buy a pizza, and not give a flip how Mark Ingram does in overtime.
So, it's a mind set I guess. I love competition, and thought I would get that same feeling, but for me I don't feel I'm being competitive, just spinning a roulette wheel. I like a more hands on, decision making activity that decides my outcome. I like to say, this is my fault, I called the wrong play, or was not as good as my opponent. Here, I feel like a sheep, and even though I'm up on my investment, and never even used the matching funds, I'm cashing out. I know everyone is different, and some guys say, "hey Senator, it's just to make the day more interesting, and I don't take it so serious." Which I envy.

This is why I gave up fantasy football years ago. I hated having to root for players that I don't like. I hated being disappointed if my team scored but it wasn't the right player. I decided I enjoyed things more just being able to root for good teams and root against the teams I hate.

[jbergey22]

The guy who won the $350K was making a killing on MLB games during August on FD, after having very meager results for the prior 2 years.

I don't have all the data, but there's allegedly a FD employee who was also having ridiculous results on DK at the same time that this was going on. A possible coincidence? Sure. But just as likely they were swapping the info they had access to.

It's ridiculous to try and argue that having access to that information isn't a major advantage, when way before this story broke, any article you read on basic strategy for these tournaments would make the point on how it's so important to grab volatile players who are likely to have low ownership percentages.

Because these big tournys are lotto style tournys. You dont need to play them. The lower owned players are that for a reason. Because they really arent good value plays and people are just trying to hit a grand slam with pokey reese. If you think about it how hard is it to figure out who will be heavily owned and who wont be? Anyone that plays regularly doesnt need insider information to be able make accurate predictions on ownership percentages.

[RainMaker]

Like I said. Enter a team on the Thursday night games for a quarter in a big tourny. You have the same information and will be able to look at all of the teams in the tourny and see the percentages owned. Plus just because a player is heavily owned in one site doesnt mean they will be heavily owned in another. The salaries and lineups are different. DK is a 2 QB format, FD is a 1. Plus they have other things that are different.

Minimal advantage at the most in these lottery style big tournys. In the smaller tournys and d-ups I see no real advantage. If you need value plays all you need to do is go to the numerous websites that give this information out for free.

You don't have access to the lineups of the top teams before the event starts. It is an enormous advantage to know what the top players are doing before the event starts.

[jbergey22]

You don't have access to the lineups of the top teams before the event starts. It is an enormous advantage to know what the top players are doing before the event starts.

The top players get the same information that everyone else has access to. They just are able to enter more teams and take risks in taking them once a lifetime games like Matt Flynn had 5 years ago. It is the same thing that you, Logan or I could do. These tournys with 3000+ entries really should be considered gambling because there is no skill to them.

FYI the top players run shows from 8am on every Sundays. They have shows on the fantasy channel on Sirius. They have podcasts. Some of them even have pay for information sites you can subscribe to. The information is all out in the open if you want it.

[RainMaker]

There is skill to it. They are finding market inefficiencies and using it to their advantage.

The top players do have access to the same information. They aren't the issue. It's the employees who have access to more information than the general public and puts them at a huge advantage.

[digamma]

There is also "run on the bank" risk with Draft Kings and Fan Duel. As unregulated entities, they don't have to maintain deposit reserves at any level. Who knows what they are doing with the money we deposit? Paying bonuses, advertising, betting at the other site?

So long as they are growing, that's fine. But if they lose users and people request deposits in any material numbers, then you could have a Full Tilt situation where the cash on hand is not enough to cover the withdrawal requests.

Given that Disney and others have looked at or made significant investments in these companies, you would hope that they took a good look at the deposit reserve policies, but who knows...

[Logan]

I read footballguys.com pretty regularly. More the forums than the actual fantasy content these days, but anyway...David Dodds is one of the big guys over there. He's a big time DFS player as I believe he's well into the six figures wagered area and had profits over the last couple of years in the high tens of thousands. And his site had a referral relationship with FD in the past way before they were blanketing the major sites/channels/radio stations with referral codes. So not only does he have a personal stake in keeping the gravy train rolling, because of his own profits, but he has a business relationship with them.

This is what he wrote in response to this. Sorry jbergey, I value his thoughts on this more than yours given his own investment and what you would assume would be his willingness to downplay the issues.

My take on all of this:

- These sites need to encrypt the data so that it can't be queried before lineup lock. Or failure to do that, just publish LIVE % owned calculations for all to see as the people are making their lineups. Both are likely radical tweaks from how these sites operate currently.

- Having players working for one not being able to play on another site doesn't solve the problem if an employee can query the database and get that info to someone. These sites have to stop any ability for data to be queried.

- I contend that a LOT of smart people could do major damage knowing % owned from one set and applying it mathematically to a different set of numbers.

- A lot of sites like ours are trying to crack percent owned. Why would we work so hard at that? Because it's needed to determine who to go after and who to fade in the bigger GPPs. Having precise or nearly precise data is a big edge. We can try and crack it, but it's a very imprecise world that creates it in the first place (ie mentions on FBG, RotoGrinders, etc can all move it)

I have hope that both of these companies are taking this extremely seriously. As for the allegations themselves, I am not going to get into that. I don't have enough facts to know what what really happened.

[jbergey22]

Fair enough!

I had always mentioned that a stock market like game that changes the salaries based on ownership percentages would make these games more exciting and skillful. These sites claim it could never work.

[QuikSand]

Well said by DD

[jbergey22]

Previously I would have hated the idea of giving out percentages owned to the public but with how things have changed and all of the clever picks being giving out to the public anyway Id have to say I think it is a very good idea.

[RainMaker]

There is also "run on the bank" risk with Draft Kings and Fan Duel. As unregulated entities, they don't have to maintain deposit reserves at any level. Who knows what they are doing with the money we deposit? Paying bonuses, advertising, betting at the other site?

So long as they are growing, that's fine. But if they lose users and people request deposits in any material numbers, then you could have a Full Tilt situation where the cash on hand is not enough to cover the withdrawal requests.

Given that Disney and others have looked at or made significant investments in these companies, you would hope that they took a good look at the deposit reserve policies, but who knows...

I don't think funding will be an issue. As you mentioned, they have some large capital investments and access to short term cash if needed.

The biggest issue DFS runs into is that there is too much skill involved. 91% of the baseball money went to just over 1% of the players. That 1% also makes up a huge amount of their entry fees. So to survive, they have to keep feeding the sharks. It's pretty easy right now as casual players see the TV ad and throw some money in. But if 85% are losing money as it is, how long are they going to hang around?

It'll be interesting to see how they adjust in the coming years. They'll have to find a way to level the playing field between skilled players and casual players. The gap is just too wide.

[albionmoonlight]

So to survive, they have to keep feeding the sharks. It's pretty easy right now as casual players see the TV ad and throw some money in. But if 85% are losing money as it is, how long are they going to hang around?

Using me and some work guys as one data point--we've talked about this over the last few months, and we've all decided to avoid these sites for this reason. We really enjoy our work fantasy league, in large part because we are all at the "engaged fan who reads Matthew Berry most weeks" level.

From what I can tell, DFS is a totally different beast. I don't see how, as a casual fan, I would be doing anything other than helping fund the syndicates putting real analysis into the market.

[Logan]

Previously I would have hated the idea of giving out percentages owned to the public but with how things have changed and all of the clever picks being giving out to the public anyway Id have to say I think it is a very good idea.

Wouldn't the vast majority of players just wait until the last minute to submit their lineups, if there was info to be gathered from this knowledge? You'd want the most relevant info.

So you have the squares doing this and the sharps will just come in last minute via their automated lineup changes to numerous entries with whatever those scripts they have developed can accomplish. Which is part of the problem in the first place.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

That said, some of the most popular forms of gambling (slots, lotteries) have managed just fine despite the fact that most people keep losing money on them. Maybe DFS pushes those same pleasure receptors in the brain.

[albionmoonlight]

Wouldn't the vast majority of players just wait until the last minute to submit their lineups, if there was info to be gathered from this knowledge? You'd want the most relevant info.

So you have the squares doing this and the sharps will just come in last minute via their automated lineup changes to numerous entries with whatever those scripts they have developed can accomplish. Which is part of the problem in the first place.

You could have a silly arms race where the sharps are all focusing their attention on developing algorithms to push their lineups later and later (and feeding bad info into the system right before they change it, etc.). But that would still at least be fair. Everyone would be playing the same game. That's fundamentally different than the insider-trading-esq stuff that seems to be going on.

I know that on Wall Street, all of the bots that the huge investment firms use for automated trading have to have the same length cable going to the NYSE computers because they have gotten so down to the nanosecond that the length of time it takes electrons to move through wire had become a relevant consideration. So it isn't like silly arms races are unprecedented.

[Logan]

Remember hearing that about cables as well. Crazy.

[RainMaker]

Slots have a much better ROI than the casual DFS player. Even lottery has a better ROI in most states.

80% of DFS players have a -50% ROI. These are baseball numbers by the way. Not sure on football yet.

[jbergey22]

Slots have a much better ROI than the casual DFS player. Even lottery has a better ROI in most states.

80% of DFS players have a -50% ROI. These are baseball numbers by the way. Not sure on football yet.

Where are you getting this information if I may ask?

I know over the past 4-5 years I have consistently brought in between 12k-28k and I am no more than a midlevel player. From all indications I have there are plenty of people out there just like me who play just enough to make a little extra cash. Unless these huge 1 million+ tournys are skewing the numbers.

[jbergey22]

Outside the Lines just had a half hour report on this.

Basically the panel all agreed that more transparency is needed. Also, many of the employees that work for each company make more playing off the different fantasy sites. So if they ban them from playing on other sites they are going to lose many of their important employees.

The lady in the panel is really the only one that understands the daily fantasy world. The other 3 had more of the take of the public perception.

[Logan]

First real domino:

ESPN pulling sponsored daily fantasy sports segments from programming | Fantasy | Sporting News (http://www.sportingnews.com/fantasy/nfl/story/2015-10-06/espn-draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-ads-sponsorship-insider-trading-data-breach-fanduel)

[jbergey22]

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-ownership-leak-850584?page=101

[RainMaker]

Where are you getting this information if I may ask?

I know over the past 4-5 years I have consistently brought in between 12k-28k and I am no more than a midlevel player. From all indications I have there are plenty of people out there just like me who play just enough to make a little extra cash. Unless these huge 1 million+ tournys are skewing the numbers.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2015/07/27/Opinion/From-the-Field-of-Fantasy-Sports.aspx

This is just from baseball season. Not sure if anyone has done one with the new football season yet and all the new fish.

[murrayyyyy]

First real domino:

ESPN pulling sponsored daily fantasy sports segments from programming | Fantasy | Sporting News (http://www.sportingnews.com/fantasy/nfl/story/2015-10-06/espn-draftkings-daily-fantasy-sports-ads-sponsorship-insider-trading-data-breach-fanduel)

ESPN or Disney? I know it's technically ESPN but if you think they made the call on this one then you probably believe the internal investigation going on with DK or FD.

[ColtCrazy]

A pseudo-gambling site where people use money to try to win more money suddenly has some questionable shenanigans? I'm shocked! :D

Put a quarter in one of those grabbing machines to show my boys how these things are rigged (it got perfectly around the minion only to see the claws slip away as if the minion was coated in butter). I tend to be skeptical at any game of chance.

I couldn't care less if there's sites like this and people want to use their money on them. I'm more annoyed that the sites are constantly being advertised and announcers even refer to player projections as if it's part of the Xs and Os of the game.

[RainMaker]

I mean I'm happy this is legal, I just wish it was consistent. Don't understand why it's legal for me to gamble on how well a player does but not gamble on how well a team does.

[dubb93]

I play fantasy fairly casually with my buddies. I'm annoyed by all the DFS coverage. I'm also annoyed that the "fantasy shows" spend atleast as much time (and probably actually a little more) dedicated to DFS and cheap finds than they do traditional fantasy. If anything is going to kill fantasy football for me it is going to be DFS and the explosion of coverage dedicated to it.

If I'm watching a fantasy show I want to know who I can grab off the waiver wire or why I should start a certain guy. I don't want to know that 100 guys who are rostered in every fantasy league are sneaky plays this week in DFS.

[EagleFan]

Week 4 Results
1) muns 160.66
2) Chief Rum 154.06
3) EagleFan 146.96
4) murrayyyyy 144.94
5) Comey 142.16
6) SegRat 138.34
7) Lathum 117.96
8) Dutch 109.66
9) kingfc22 104.54
10) Julio Riddols 98.94
11) jbergey 92.16
12) Suicane 76.1

[EagleFan]

Sent out invites for a 12 team pro and an 8 team college league.

[SegRat]

I would play again

[nol]

ESPN or Disney? I know it's technically ESPN but if you think they made the call on this one then you probably believe the internal investigation going on with DK or FD.

Consider it believed. New York Attorney General Opens Inquiry into Daily Fantasy Sites (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/sports/draftkings-fanduel-inquiry-new-york-attorney-general.html)

[murrayyyyy]

Consider it believed. New York Attorney General Opens Inquiry into Daily Fantasy Sites (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/sports/draftkings-fanduel-inquiry-new-york-attorney-general.html)

Meaningless.

You are asking a company to do an internal investigation. They will cover things up to protect themselves. Just look at how well the NFL's own internal investigations have gone as of late. So if dk doesn't list an employee who plays at fd, what power/access does the AG have in New York to find out this info from fd?

[Suicane75]

Bah, I set a placeholder lineup and then forgot to change it. Got em in for this week already though.

[bhlloy]

Personally I do think the advantage of being able to see the lineups as they come in is probably a little overblown. For every week 3 Devonta Freeman or Travis Benjamin that only 0.1% of users picked and killed it, there's hundreds of guys that nobody picked that did absolutely fuck all. You'd still need to be nostradamus to pick a winning line up with that strategy.

Where I do think there's probably more of an advantage is being able to have the data at your fingertips of say the top 500 entries in every tournament stretching back to the start of the site. I would imagine you can build some very good trends with that and start to come up with a nice model of successful DFS teams. And that effect is probably magnified when it comes to baseball, which has a ton of contests each day/week over a 162 game season.

[jbergey22]

Personally I do think the advantage of being able to see the lineups as they come in is probably a little overblown. For every week 3 Devonta Freeman or Travis Benjamin that only 0.1% of users picked and killed it, there's hundreds of guys that nobody picked that did absolutely fuck all. You'd still need to be nostradamus to pick a winning line up with that strategy.

Where I do think there's probably more of an advantage is being able to have the data at your fingertips of say the top 500 entries in every tournament stretching back to the start of the site. I would imagine you can build some very good trends with that and start to come up with a nice model of successful DFS teams. And that effect is probably magnified when it comes to baseball, which has a ton of contests each day/week over a 162 game season.

+1

[EagleFan]

I don't get it, but I see it every week. Players draft a team of all, or almost all, Thursday game players. Yes, they lead after Thursday but it is short lived once the games start Sunday. Why do that?

[jbergey22]

Still need just 1 more to fill the college game.

[muns]

I don't get it, but I see it every week. Players draft a team of all, or almost all, Thursday game players. Yes, they lead after Thursday but it is short lived once the games start Sunday. Why do that?

There had to be one time where someone won big money by doing that, otherwise like you I cant figure out why anyone would be doing that

[JonInMiddleGA]

So much for any immediate negative impact I suppose
Daily fantasy sites DraftKings, FanDuel take in highest number of entries this NFL season (http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13869135/daily-fantasy-sites-draftkings-fanduel-take-highest-number-entries-nfl-season)

Interesting to see the confirmation that, yes, they really are that incessant in terms of advertising though.

[frnk55]

I'm so sick of those damn commercials!! Radio too!

[Julio Riddols]

Enter promo code MOUSTACHE RIDE.. Thats promo code MOUSTACHE RIDE.

[Julio Riddols]

I think I have found my ticket. The three player, winner take all $2 leagues.

[dubb93]

I don't get it, but I see it every week. Players draft a team of all, or almost all, Thursday game players. Yes, they lead after Thursday but it is short lived once the games start Sunday. Why do that?

New players that are confused about the daily fantasy marketing campaign?

[kingfc22]

And so it begins: http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-justice-department-investigating-daily-fantasy-sports-business-model-1444865627

[Comey]

We doing a tourney this week?

[EagleFan]

Sorry, will put one together today.

[Comey]

Don't apologize. I wasn't sure.

[murrayyyyy]

I wondered when this was coming...

Daily fantasy sports sites ordered to shut down in Nevada (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a5609d02ebeb45d9979548ea28a860e7/daily-fantasy-sports-sites-ordered-shut-down-nevada)

[RainMaker]

I wondered when this was coming...

Daily fantasy sports sites ordered to shut down in Nevada (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a5609d02ebeb45d9979548ea28a860e7/daily-fantasy-sports-sites-ordered-shut-down-nevada)

Not a surprise. Casinos own the politicians in that state and they don't like competition.

[digamma]

There are a handful of other states where you can't play already. Washington comes to mind.

[BYU 14]

There are a handful of other states where you can't play already. Washington comes to mind.

And Arizona :mad:

[murrayyyyy]

There are a handful of other states where you can't play already. Washington comes to mind.

But it's easier for people to point to casinos than to realize other state ban it also.

Reality is the NFL has screwed with the state and Las Vegas and they figured out a way to stick it back to the NFL. Now the AGA is backing the recent Nevada law that declares DFS as gambling. The NFL greased the hands of politicians to get it in a bill to declare it a game of skill instead of gambling.

And it's not illegal in Nevada, you just have to have a sports gaming licence (given to those who allow sport GAMBLING). DK and FD can't say they are gambling because of their backers and it's against the law in 46 states.

Guess they need to change that commercial saying they are having finals in Vegas. Maybe they can go to New Orle... nope, maybe Arizon... nope.

[albionmoonlight]

I get that it is all special interests greasing palms, but it seems so bizarre to live in a world where I am free legally to lose money to insider-trading bots at DK or FD, but I can't just log onto caesers-palace-sportsbook.com and make a nice, legal, 10% vig, regulated bet on a game against the spread.

[murrayyyyy]

I get that it is all special interests greasing palms, but it seems so bizarre to live in a world where I am free legally to lose money to insider-trading bots at DK or FD, but I can't just log onto caesers-palace-sportsbook.com and make a nice, legal, 10% vig, regulated bet on a game against the spread.

Here was the NFL argument (testimony from Mr Goodell) that someone believed.

1) Fantasy sports aren't gambling because children are able to do it. (yes, he said this:banghead: )

2) Gambling goes against the nature of sports where the big bad gambler would be forced to root against a team they would root for normally (unlike fantasy sports where you never EVER start a player against your favorite team:banghead: ).

My 6 year old is able to comprehend a legal bet I make and has no clue how fantasy sports works.

[digamma]

The internet and sports gambling bills are fascinating. The story of them being tossed into the Ports bill is just classic. And who knows who knew at the time that they contained a "fantasy sports" exclusion? Pretty wacky stuff.

[panerd]

(excuse me for not reading the articles if this is discussed) These are legit businesses that pay taxes right? I guess I understand the "outrage" when these offshore companies take Harrah's customers and then in turn don't pay taxes. But this seems to be a case that senators are in certain companies pockets and want to squash them for taking their master's business away.

[cartman]

If I'm reading the Nevada ruling correctly, season long fantasy leagues for cash are ok, but they consider the week-to-week ones as gambling.

[murrayyyyy]

If I'm reading the Nevada ruling correctly, season long fantasy leagues for cash are ok, but they consider the week-to-week ones as gambling.

Yes, fantasy sports leagues are legal in Nevada still. Think FFPC and NFFC are among the ones that have drafts here.

Another thought on why it is NFL/DK directed. The first National Fantasy Football Convention was suppose to be in July but the NFL banned it because it was at the Sands Expo. Players and NFL personnel may not participate in promotional activities or other appearances at or in connection with events that are held at or sponsored by casinos (Yet the Saints hold camp at a casino). They had to cancel a lot of things involving NFL players (Think Romo was a big part of recruiting players).

I believe this is what pissed off Nevada to go after DFS because the NFL was very vocal about backing it and has tried to get sports gambling banned everywhere.

[murrayyyyy]

In case you were wondering what a banned state letter looks like from them. Also for spell check people, I think it is commingled not comingled (but this would involve the skill of spell check, not gambling that everything is correct)

Dear murrayyyyy,

You are receiving this notice because your account lists Nevada as your state of residence.

Yesterday the Nevada Gaming Control Board made a determination that Daily Fantasy Sports is subject to the Nevada Gaming Control Act, and that all daily fantasy sports operators must cease operations in the State of Nevada immediately. While we disagree with this decision, and take the view that DFS is a game of skill, we respect the authority of the NGCB and will comply with their instructions.

If you object to DraftKings not being able to operate in Nevada, please join the debate by
Fantasy Sports Trade Association (http://salsa4.salsalabs.com/o/51362/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=16215)
signing this petition (click here) . Only by working together can Nevada residents again join the millions of other Americans who enjoy DFS on a regular basis.

In the meantime, we will be considering all options available for us to return to Nevada.

For now, we ask that you please withdraw any funds in your account. Your funds are safe, and have always been safe as we keep them in a segregated player account which is never comingled with our operating funds.

Starting today, you and other Nevada Residents will no longer be able to participate in our fantasy sports contests.If your account has withdrawable funds, your account will only retain login and withdrawal capabilities on DraftKings. If you change your residence in the future, please contact our customer support team with proof of address and we will consider re-opening your account.

All DFS contest entries that have not yet started have been refunded to your account, and prizes will be converted to their dollar value.All entries that are active will payout normally once the contests finish and can be withdrawn at that time.Once you have withdrawn all available account balances, your account access will be closed.Please make sure you withdraw your entire available balance as soon as possible.

We appreciate your loyalty to DraftKings.THANK YOU for supporting us with your interest, enthusiasm for sports and DFS play. While we disagree with the NGCB decision, we will work diligently to ensure Nevadans again have the right to play on DraftKings again soon.

Fantasy Sports Trade Association (http://salsa4.salsalabs.com/o/51362/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=16215)
Link to Petition

Thank you,

DraftKings Team

[NobodyHere]

Can't people in banned states just use a proxy server or something?

[murrayyyyy]

Can't people in banned states just use a proxy server or something?

Dunno since some might link it up to their bank account. Always wondered this since BOA still counts me as a New Mexico account and I haven't been there in 16 years.

I think the obvious solution is someone going out of the US to set up a company much like all online sports gambling sites are. Doesn't seem to stop it as there are at least 132 rated sportsbooks that accept US players even thought it is illegal here.

[Senator]

I cashed in my 119.82 and skidaddled my merry way.

[Comey]

If we're doing one this week, I'd love to stay in. I thought I had entered an entry last week, but overlooked it, apparently.

[EagleFan]

You may have but we didn't get a full league. Will set something up today.

[murrayyyyy]

I got an invite but still can't play cause of live in a bad part of 'Murica

[EagleFan]

sorry, I'll remove you from the list. Have just use the list from the previous week.

[SegRat]

You can ad me again

[TCY Junkie]

Playing yahoo. If it wasn't for bell being injured I would have won 3k on 25 entered. Had Hillman for Sunday and noticed a guy had 40 entries 1.75 points ahead of me. Counted up his roster and the best player he could afford was Hillman. So I knew he had Hillman. I put in Ginn jr hoeping. For a miracle of Ginn more than Hillman. But didn't happen. Cost me 50 dollars, won 100 instead of 150. If he only had 1 entry I would have won 900. Blah blah blah. Signed up for draft kings and curious if this thing is still going on. Pawhite1979 is my id

[murrayyyyy]

And New York follows Nevada now...

SportsCenter on Twitter: "DraftKings and FanDuel have been declared illegal gambling sites by N.Y. Attorney General, according to letters obtained by ESPN & ABC News." (https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/664219877197115405)

[jbergey22]

This could very well end Daily Fantasy Sports in the USA and turn it into offshore profit. Losing New York is going be tough as they have the largest customer base and states generally will take their lead.

Seems like a bunch of BS to me. Cuomo is worried about his Casino revenue and figures this will make him look good.

Unless the NFL, MLB, or NBA decide to lobby with DK and FD it doesnt look good.

[RainMaker]

Just legalize it all. This weird setup we have where certain types of gambling are legal while others are not is bizarre. Like I can drive a 20 minutes and play slots and blackjack all night here. I can buy a roll of scratch-off tickets on my way home. I can bet on a bunch of players performance in sporting events. But I want to bet on a team and that's illegal.

[TCY Junkie]

Just legalize it all. This weird setup we have where certain types of gambling are legal while others are not is bizarre. Like I can drive a 20 minutes and play slots and blackjack all night here. I can buy a roll of scratch-off tickets on my way home. I can bet on a bunch of players performance in sporting events. But I want to bet on a team and that's illegal.
+1000000 on the last sentence

[Neuqua]

Decided to go ahead and cash out today (left $5 just for fun.)

[BYU 14]

I just don't get this, it's not competing with legalized gambling, because casinos don't have anything like this. Make it something useful like the lotteries where a portion of money goes to education or something and legalize it in all 50.

[murrayyyyy]

I just don't get this, it's not competing with legalized gambling, because casinos don't have anything like this. Make it something useful like the lotteries where a portion of money goes to education or something and legalize it in all 50.

I think the real problem is that it's not regulated in the end. Everything people mention always comes back to this point. Lotteries, gambling, horse racing, poker rooms, the stock market, etc.... In the end, they did it to themselves.

[BYU 14]

Good point

[Bigsmooth]

That Brady/Gronksmash TD! I'm TheAceMan...looking like I locked up a Qualifier spot on Fantasy Fued and will be going after $250K. The Qualifier is worth $33,000.

[jbergey22]

That Brady/Gronksmash TD! I'm TheAceMan...looking like I locked up a Qualifier spot on Fantasy Fued and will be going after $250K. The Qualifier is worth $33,000.

Exciting! Good luck to you! Even better news is that FF is out of Canada and doesnt have to worry about restrictions right now:)

[murrayyyyy]

So it isn't gambling in the US but you apply for a gambling license in the UK? Alrighty then...

Daily fantasy sports companies seek gambling approval abroad - US News (http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/11/15/daily-fantasy-sports-companies-seek-gambling-approval-abroad)

[murrayyyyy]

And of course John Oliver gets in on it...

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Daily Fantasy Sports (HBO) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq785nJ0FXQ)

[nol]

Fanduel told Employees Not to Win Too Much Money on DraftKings or People Would Get Suspicious (http://deadspin.com/fanduel-told-employees-not-to-win-too-much-money-on-dra-1743814536)

Rules for Employee Play on Other Sites:

Never be among the top five players by volume on any one site (based on site leaderboards). Never be among the top ten overall on the RotoGrinders leaderboard. Top players frequently become targets for accusations by other users.

Never account for more than 2% of entries in any tournament of more than 1,000 entries. Never account for more than 5% of entries in any tournament of more than 100 entries. Players who swamp big tournaments with entries frequently become targets of accusations.

Don’t be the 2nd person into a head to head contest against the same opponent in more than one contest per day. This rule will greatly limit the ability to exploit information about user performance, and will also limit the likelihood of complaints from users.


But hey, there's no advantage that one site's employees could exploit on other sites.

[murrayyyyy]

Damn, FanDuel And DraftKings Bring In Shitloads Of MoneyÂ* (http://deadspin.com/damn-fanduel-and-draftkings-bring-in-shitloads-of-mone-1743825648)

Well being honest might have been the worst thing they've done... As you check out the state by state tally you may notice the 5 states in red at the bottom. You know the ones where it's always been illegal for them to operate... Washington would seem to have first dibs at taking action.

But hey, you know what's even better, using gambling formats of reporting and terminology for your own reports. But it's obviously not gambling, just the accounting reports are.

[EagleFan]

That doesn't tell the real numbers though. The net is only showing deposits minus withdraws. That means nothing in terms of their actual bottom line.

[TCY Junkie]

So I entered a 100 dollar beginner tournament for 33 people but only 13 people signed up. I got 4 and 350. Paid top 6 places, top place 1k. If lacy didn't break curfew would have easily got 2 and 50/50 for first. I was curious if this is something they have always done in the past and traffic is just that much slower or if they tried something new and it didn't work out. Only have 13 sign up for a 33 man contest?

[bob]

Unless someone else steps in, this could pretty well kill them:

Vantiv to stop processing payments for FanDuel, DraftKings: report - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/vantiv-to-stop-processing-payments-for-fanduel-draftkings-report-2016-01-29)

This is somewhat analogous to banks that refuse to handle merchant accounts for pot dispensaries in Colorado.