Trading?

[Nataris]

So, new player here and really enjoying the game thus far. One rather large problem I have had is that the CPU Trade AI seems almost impossible to work with.

I dont expect trades to be easy. In fact, I prefer them to be more conservative. But I am offering a team a 4th year LT 45/68 for a C rated 33/55.

They are already getting the better player ratings wise, not to mention better intangibles AND its a LT which will start immediately for the team and also be the 2nd best OL they would have.

Their excuse for refusal "we wont players that will have a larger impact on the game".

So, a LT with a 83 Pass block rating protecting your 86 QB isnt a large enough impact? Meanwhile the current tackles are 43 and 37 respectively.

I just dont understand. I have come across this with other trades too. It just seems impossible to actually deal with the CPU.

The ONLY time i got a deal to be accepted when I offered (as a test) a 3rd year 89 QB for 2 second round picks.

You have to be kidding. The 2nd best QB in the league for 2 2's?

Can someone help me out here? What am I missing? I am not trying to trade for huge names and yet I get stiffled going after 40 rated players.. I dont get it.

[Ben E Lou]

First off, welcome aboard!

I think you'll find what is being modeled is that player for player trades in the NFL aren't very common. The AI teams are very stingy. They're beatable in other areas of the game, so most vets don't really fret that you can't beat them in trading. If you want to be active in trading, then I'd suggest joining a multi-player league. There are quite a few active ones.

[QuikSand]

First of all... in all likelihood, you're not going to like how this game works (in single player). Trading really just isn't a very major part of the game - especially the gamer-initiated trading like you have in mind. I'm offering this without comment on whether it's good or bad, it just is. The game really isn't designed as a wheel-and-deal exercise.

Now, on to one bit of specifics:

I am offering a team a 4th year LT 45/68 for a C rated 33/55.

Your description only goes so far...what about contracts? How much do these guys take under the cap, what cap hit would the other team take from trading away the C? Pretty relevant stuff, and that might play a role in the team being unwilling to talk. If the full story there is that they have to eat a cap hit of $6m to deal the C, and then also have to pay the T an extra $5m more than the C was costing them... then the trade isn't really as lopsided, is it?

Anyway... salary cap football is the game, and the financials are an important part of the game. A quality guy at market salary isn't really "worth" much, and a mediocre guy at a bargain price is "worth" more, in many cases. So, that might play a role in your concerns here, and with the other trades you have tried to offer.


But back to the main point... this game really isn't designed as a trade-to-suit game, like it or not. Most would argue that this keeps things "realistic" in NFL terms, as trades aren't a big part of the NFL either. And in a sim game, if the game allows you to make that one trade (this T for that C) then if the same logic is open for you to make the next one and the next one... then in no time, you can basically rebuild your roster through trades (for better or worse) which stretches way beyond anything that NFL GMs really contemplate.

So...I hope you find fun in the many other elements of the game. You can still swing an occasional deal (especially when you get offered a trade), and trading up or down within a given draft seems to work fairly well, but it's not designed to be the foundation in this game. The foundation in this game is the rookie draft, contract renegotiations/extensions, and open free agency, in some combination (depending on your style). And that is pretty realistic.

[Nataris]

First off, welcome aboard!

I think you'll find what is being modeled is that player for player trades in the NFL aren't very common. The AI teams are very stingy. They're beatable in other areas of the game, so most vets don't really fret that you can't beat them in trading. If you want to be active in trading, then I'd suggest joining a multi-player league. There are quite a few active ones.

Thanks! Just to clearify, I am not trying to "beat" the cpu in a trade. I like a fair system and would like to think what I offered was already pretty heavily favored to the CPU team.

I'll take your advice and search for a multiplayer league. Which I planned to do anyway. But first I just want to get my feet wet with 2-3 seasons of single player. Thanks for the tips!

First of all... in all likelihood, you're not going to like how this game works (in single player). Trading really just isn't a very major part of the game - especially the gamer-initiated trading like you have in mind. I'm offering this without comment on whether it's good or bad, it just is. The game really isn't designed as a wheel-and-deal exercise.

Now, on to one bit of specifics:



Your description only goes so far...what about contracts? How much do these guys take under the cap, what cap hit would the other team take from trading away the C? Pretty relevant stuff, and that might play a role in the team being unwilling to talk. If the full story there is that they have to eat a cap hit of $6m to deal the C, and then also have to pay the T an extra $5m more than the C was costing them... then the trade isn't really as lopsided, is it?

Anyway... salary cap football is the game, and the financials are an important part of the game. A quality guy at market salary isn't really "worth" much, and a mediocre guy at a bargain price is "worth" more, in many cases. So, that might play a role in your concerns here, and with the other trades you have tried to offer.


But back to the main point... this game really isn't designed as a trade-to-suit game, like it or not. Most would argue that this keeps things "realistic" in NFL terms, as trades aren't a big part of the NFL either. And in a sim game, if the game allows you to make that one trade (this T for that C) then if the same logic is open for you to make the next one and the next one... then in no time, you can basically rebuild your roster through trades (for better or worse) which stretches way beyond anything that NFL GMs really contemplate.

So...I hope you find fun in the many other elements of the game. You can still swing an occasional deal (especially when you get offered a trade), and trading up or down within a given draft seems to work fairly well, but it's not designed to be the foundation in this game. The foundation in this game is the rookie draft, contract renegotiations/extensions, and open free agency, in some combination (depending on your style). And that is pretty realistic.

Thank you for your response. I wasnt expecting or hoping to be able to wheel and deal my way to a championship team. In fact, I am all about building through the draft in these games. I rarely even sign high end FA or make trades in other games.

Really the only reason I was trying to trade was because I had a severe need and was over stocked on a LT position.

As far as the contracts and all, everything was really good across the board. I did the fantasy draft thing so made sure all my players were young with good intangibles, contracts and stats.

All in all, the CPU would have benefited from every part of the trade. CPU player was overpriced while mine was under priced for his talent lvl.

Just strange is all. Again, I didnt mean to come off as if I expected to wheel and deal to a superbowl. But my need at the time was large enough to justify a trade attempt.

Thanks for all the comments. I guess I will just deal with my 23 rated Center for the season lol. Ill get them back come draft time ;)

[WilleB]

The game has come a long way. Trading use to be too easy. Just wait until draft time and see them trade amongst themselves for next to nothing. Then you'll be upset. It is a good balance based on what you can do to the AI in other aspects of the game. Enjoy and welcome!

[rockmedic109]

I am not sure, but does the program take into account how many offers you've made? Will it hold out for more if you've shown too much desire for a certain player?

[mrtourette]

I've had that, tried too may 'test' offeres for a player and the team has got annoyed and refused to trade with me due to messing them about.

[ueauvan]

IRL the wide receiver swop between 9ers and Chiefs comes to mind but i don't know of many other obvious recent ones

what seems to happen is the players are traded for picks so logic would say why not try two trades, first the LT/C then the other does that work? the cpu might see LT needed and C not needed

[TRO]

Also not factored into the discussion yet, scouting differences. CPU May see your 45/63 guy as 40/48 and their two current starters as 47 and 43. Just spitballing possible numbers there.

If they are, then your guy isn't going to make an impact on the field, just as their response says.

Even without the likely scout view differences, if you look at just the difference in current rating that your scout shows: 45 vs 43 and 37 isn't much of an upgrade in expected current performance. The center wouldn't add much, if any, positive value.

[Nataris]

IRL the wide receiver swop between 9ers and Chiefs comes to mind but i don't know of many other obvious recent ones

what seems to happen is the players are traded for picks so logic would say why not try two trades, first the LT/C then the other does that work? the cpu might see LT needed and C not needed

The best offer I got for the 68, young, quality LT was a 6th rd pick. So that didn't work either.

I was quite stunned when they would only give me two 2nds for the 3rd best QB in the league. High 80's, 3rd year and the 7th cheapest qb in the league. Not that I was actually gonna trade him, but I was testing things out.

No big deal. Just strange.

[Nataris]

Also not factored into the discussion yet, scouting differences. CPU May see your 45/63 guy as 40/48 and their two current starters as 47 and 43. Just spitballing possible numbers there.

If they are, then your guy isn't going to make an impact on the field, just as their response says.

Even without the likely scout view differences, if you look at just the difference in current rating that your scout shows: 45 vs 43 and 37 isn't much of an upgrade in expected current performance. The center wouldn't add much, if any, positive value.

I would get the Center, they would get the LT. Even with similar numbers a LT is by far more valuable then a center. I even through in 3rd rd pick and nothing.

I dont plan to trade much so not a big deal in the end. I love building through the draft anyway.


Thank you for the replies everyone.

[ueauvan]

a follow on

if they view the players one way and you another, is it likely to be based on combined coach scouting abilities for each team?

if they arent great at OL and/or scouting would both teams be consistent in hierarchy of OL? even if a 24/40 for one and 24/60 for the other the ranking between those players would be the same? im assuming players are 3+ years in and have stabilised somewhat

ie team A sees:
T1 24/40
T2 23/39
T3 62/77
C1 14/45
C2 48/48

team B sees
T1 24/60
T2 23/49
T3 67/82
C1 19/50
C2 53/58

[garion333]

I've found that if a team isn't interested in a player when I shop them in the trade screen you're probably not going to find a way to trade that player, regardless of the benefit to them.