Welp, got a job offer...should I stay or go? (401k question among others)

[Mike Lowe]

Perhaps an odd question, but I'm trying to figure out how much "dollar amount/salary value" one would put on a 401k match of 50% up to the first 6%. My current job has just this, and although the program has sucked balls as far as return so far (less than 1% return in just the 6 months I've been here), I'm wondering how much it is worth in salary dollars?

The reason this has come up is although I was at my previous job for 8 years and although I LOVE my current job and most of all it entails, I was told last night that I'm getting an offer next week from another company that I interviewed with last week.

This other job would be a promotion from instructional designer (designing/building online college/university courses) to an instructional designer II position, and *might* even be for a director of ID position.

I was told that my current salary is at the top of their salary range for this promotion (could be a line, but I know I'm the highest paid designer at my current job), but also talked with them (informally) about how something like the director position could change that (I'd be on the lower end of a director's salary). They said they always look at such situations on interviews, and I'm certain I'd do just fine in the role (I have a double masters in education and design...so I can attack from both angles!), but hell I also barely have experience as a designer...

This new offer is for a company that's still sort of a start-up, although they already have bigger clients than my current job. Because they are newer (2011, but really started hiring in July), they don't have a 401k plan in place just yet, but "will soon." Hopefully that's the case, but I guess I'm trying to figure out how much value to place on such a program when this new offer won't have it just yet. In other words, is losing that like taking a 10% salary cut? Etc.

Other factors to consider for this move, for those interested:

Current job:
+I drive about 45 minutes each way to work, spend $200/mo on gas, $70 on car insurance, another $160 on a parking spot, but have no car payment (2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo)
+The job is fun, easy, rarely super busy, tons of freedoms (work from home most Mondays, pretty much by request other days)
+Get along with everyone, they love my work, etc.
+Gym at work where I workout during lunch every day
+401k match mentioned above, fully vested after 3 years (I've been there 6 months)
+Even though I work from home from time to time, I also spend 8-10 hours a week driving in traffic lol

This new job:
+They are (allegedly) moving downtown Chicago which would put them about a 15-20 minute walk away from me so I could sell my car (and the associated bills). Even if they stay in Evanston, it'd be a 20 minute Metra train ride
+No dress code lol
+They weren't too keen on the idea of working from home, ever really
+In selling my car I could pay off my remaining student loan
+I asked for just over a 10% raise when they asked for a salary request
+I also mentioned my work from home setup and benefits when they asked, and they are well aware that I'm very happy at my current position
+May require some travel (might just be a disclaimer)
+No 401k yet

They are giving me an offer next week. I'm trying to weigh everything beforehand. In theory, it'd be great to get a 10% raise, a job title promotion, and sell my car and drop the associated bills. Granted, it's about more than just that, but I won't bother explaining both jobs; they are both great opportunities so I'm in a good place regardless. FWIW, if the director role becomes an option, you can easily double all of those perks.

So the first question again was how much value to put on the 401k for a job that has it, but another that does not. The other...well I guess just any sort of feedback would be appreciated! I know all about the "grass is greener" stuff, and I'm 100% content sitting tight where I'm at...but it does bother me that the #1 reason for doing so is that "it's easy and they take good care of me." But hell, I guess in a job you can't complain with that...

I am hoping for:

1) Take it and get a 10% raise (adjust for 401k), work from home at least once a week

2) Stay put and--while I've read that counters are a bad idea from employers looking to retain you (resentment, trust, etc.)--counter for maybe a 5% raise, and ask for work from home twice a week.

[jeff061]

+The job is fun, easy, rarely super busy, tons of freedoms (work from home most Mondays, pretty much by request other days)
+Get along with everyone, they love my work, etc.

Unless there is a major financial difference or it's a big step up inline with career goals, I wouldn't move away from those 2 bullets.

[Mike Lowe]

+The job is fun, easy, rarely super busy, tons of freedoms (work from home most Mondays, pretty much by request other days)
+Get along with everyone, they love my work, etc.

Unless there is a major financial difference or it's a big step up inline with career goals, I wouldn't move away from those 2 bullets.

Agree 100%. I would never leave for something even close to a lateral move. This is the reason I'm asking on the 401k question so I know what I'm actually comparing.

Thanks, Jeff.

[Mike Lowe]

As it stands now, with salary request and adjusted bills in selling car, etc. (including buying a monthly train pass if needed), I'd be looking at an additional $750-900/month.

I'm comfortable financially, but who doesn't like extra cash?

I guess a simple answer to my "what is the match worth?" is that it'd be one of my bi-monthly amounts that I contribute (6%) since they do 3%, plus compound interest.

[sterlingice]

Simple part first. To the 401k, if you have the money to spare, you almost have to do the full 6% because they're handing you the additional 3% on top. Beyond 6%, it's more about what you can afford to save. If the market loses 30% in a year, you're still ahead because they're giving you money. And in the years it's up, you're increasing a lot.

As for the job- for me, it's rarely been solely about finances. A few thousand here or there means something and feels good to have your hard work recognized. But it's those jumps where you add 10K or double your salary that really matter. My personal theory is that trying to set up for one of those is a lot more important to me. However, the director of ID sounds like that- is that somewhere you want to go in life (not all promotions are worth having)?

I don't want to overblow something that's just a one liner but you mention your current job is easy. Are you still learning? In IT, I just get overly paranoid: if a day goes by where I just do my job and don't learn something, it's a day I fell behind everyone else who learned something that day in a field that's ever changing. So if I'm not learning or not challenged, it's not a good fit for me. That said, there may be a time in life (small kids, for instance) where hitting a plateau is ok for a short period of time but, otherwise, I want to always be learning on the job.

But, lastly, if you like your job and really appreciate it- there's a ton to be said for quality of life. Tho, keep in mind the entire package including commute. One of the reasons we bought a house where we did because saving 15 minutes on a commute each way was worth a ton when you think about how many minutes a year that adds up to. However, if it meant changing jobs, we'd never have moved where we did because the jobs we have right now are good jobs. It sounds like you're in a really good place right now- if you're still learning or have an opportunity to learn and don't really need the extra money (in danger of not being able to pay rent, food, etc)- it's probably not worth it unless that director job is one you really strive for. In which case, pick the job that gives you the better leg up on that job.

SI

[Desnudo]

The not working from home thing would be a deal killer for me. Just says a lot about an inflexible mgmt team. The match thing is worth a max of around 4-5k non-taxed depending on your income. You should be able to tell simply by checking your payroll.

[Toddzilla]

If the current job offered you the same financial package would you stay? Then don't take the new job - it's only money

[Marc Vaughan]

The other job sounds like a lot of 'ifs and buts' tbh - all you're truly getting is 'possibly' the chance to not commute (which would be good IF they do their move) and a new swanky job title with no additional pay initially.

Personally I think it comes down to what you want and your risk tolerance - I once left a very lucrative contract that I enjoyed to join a small startup on 25% of the salary as I had been earning contracting ..... I'm still iat that company now 15+ years later ... so it CAN work, but do bear in mind that it doesn't always (ie. you could join and hate it or find that the startup folds a year down the line etc.).

Regardless if you do decide to take the position - I would sincerely suggest you do things as nicely as possible with your current company if you do leave, its the 'right thing' to do .... and will also potentially leave you an escape route if things go awol with your new place.

[Mike Lowe]

Simple part first. To the 401k, if you have the money to spare, you almost have to do the full 6% because they're handing you the additional 3% on top. Beyond 6%, it's more about what you can afford to save. If the market loses 30% in a year, you're still ahead because they're giving you money. And in the years it's up, you're increasing a lot.

For sure! I always max this out.

As for the job- for me, it's rarely been solely about finances. A few thousand here or there means something and feels good to have your hard work recognized. But it's those jumps where you add 10K or double your salary that really matter. My personal theory is that trying to set up for one of those is a lot more important to me. However, the director of ID sounds like that- is that somewhere you want to go in life (not all promotions are worth having)?

This would be slightly above 10% increase, and was based just on the design II promotion.

I don't want to overblow something that's just a one liner but you mention your current job is easy. Are you still learning? In IT, I just get overly paranoid: if a day goes by where I just do my job and don't learn something, it's a day I fell behind everyone else who learned something that day in a field that's ever changing. So if I'm not learning or not challenged, it's not a good fit for me. That said, there may be a time in life (small kids, for instance) where hitting a plateau is ok for a short period of time but, otherwise, I want to always be learning on the job.

Definitely still learning--always will be. I've always been ahead of the game in education when it comes to technology, but then again it's not hard to be as the competition isn't too stellar haha.

But, lastly, if you like your job and really appreciate it- there's a ton to be said for quality of life. Tho, keep in mind the entire package including commute. One of the reasons we bought a house where we did because saving 15 minutes on a commute each way was worth a ton when you think about how many minutes a year that adds up to. However, if it meant changing jobs, we'd never have moved where we did because the jobs we have right now are good jobs. It sounds like you're in a really good place right now- if you're still learning or have an opportunity to learn and don't really need the extra money (in danger of not being able to pay rent, food, etc)- it's probably not worth it unless that director job is one you really strive for. In which case, pick the job that gives you the better leg up on that job.

The director role is the position I wanted when I went back to grad school again. Again, it's probably not even on their radar, but it would be difficult to turn that position down (plus I'd counter with a more appropriate salary). It's something I'm absolutely certain I'd be great at.

Thanks so much for the feedback! :)

[Mike Lowe]

The not working from home thing would be a deal killer for me. Just says a lot about an inflexible mgmt team. The match thing is worth a max of around 4-5k non-taxed depending on your income. You should be able to tell simply by checking your payroll.

Yes, a flexible team is the biggest draw to my current job. It's totally stress free and other than HATING to wake up, I don't mind getting up to go in. Hey, I'm tired! :)

[Mike Lowe]

If the current job offered you the same financial package would you stay? Then don't take the new job - it's only money

If my current job would just move downtown lol.

That aside though, the promotion at this new place (for the potential director role) is where I want to be eventually. Where I'm at now, it'd be 4-5 years at least. This new one, hell could be next week. Could be 10 years? Who knows!

While it's not the reason to or not to take a job, I'd love to walk to work and get rid of my car. It's in good shape, but just a waste of damn money and I don't want to buy another one lol.

[Mike Lowe]

The other job sounds like a lot of 'ifs and buts' tbh - all you're truly getting is 'possibly' the chance to not commute (which would be good IF they do their move) and a new swanky job title with no additional pay initially.

Personally I think it comes down to what you want and your risk tolerance - I once left a very lucrative contract that I enjoyed to join a small startup on 25% of the salary as I had been earning contracting ..... I'm still iat that company now 15+ years later ... so it CAN work, but do bear in mind that it doesn't always (ie. you could join and hate it or find that the startup folds a year down the line etc.).

Regardless if you do decide to take the position - I would sincerely suggest you do things as nicely as possible with your current company if you do leave, its the 'right thing' to do .... and will also potentially leave you an escape route if things go awol with your new place.

While there's definitely something to be said for conservatism, taking changes is what's gotten me where I'm at in a number of facets in my life. Hell, I moved downtown before I even had this current job because I found a lucrative renting opportunity on my house in the suburbs that I couldn't pass up. I pretty much knew I had the job in the bag, but I left an easy (but boring and stupid) job for this entirely new career, and it was one of the top 1-2 best decisions I've EVER made. So liberating!

So the balance becomes is it the exact situation that's liberating, or is it just the risk/reward factor itself?

Lastly, yes ABSOLUTELY I'd go about it the right way...honestly, I wouldn't even accept it without talking to my boss about it first. "I have an offer I'm weighing..." That's the most honest approach, and it could spark some interesting discussions. If I could keep them as a fallback, wow that'd be terrific!

[Coffee Warlord]

Happiness & low stress are so unbelievably nice to have in a job...and in more of a 'startup' position, I can just about promise the workload is gonna be nasty.

[JPhillips]

I believe your 401k contribution is probably pre-tax, so the math of the 401k should be the amount of contribution by the company + the tax on the total contribution of the company and yourself. As long as you make that dollar amount in contributions to an IRA, you'll basically be even.

However, it gets tricky when you look at taxation of an IRA. If you go traditional, the contribution is pre-tax, like your 401k. If you go Roth, the contribution is taxable, but the withdrawals won't be.

I'm not an accountant, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I think it's correct.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I always try to remind myself that, if I do my job to the best of my ability, the money will (or should) eventually follow - depending on the job/company of course.

The other things - work from home, low stress - are keepers. If they aren't negotiable with the new job, it reeks of inflexibility from management before you've even accepted a position. This is while they are trying to convince you to move. What's it going to be like once you're there?

[Mike Lowe]

Great points guys, thanks!

[sterlingice]

There's the cliche "it never hurts to ask" but I think this is the case where you need to decide before you bring it up with your current company. You might disrupt something good if you really like where you're at now and you might want to consider if bringing it up to them would be in your best interest (would you get points for honesty or lose points for disloyalty; are you hoping to leverage this to get more out of your current company?)

SI

[Mike Lowe]

There's the cliche "it never hurts to ask" but I think this is the case where you need to decide before you bring it up with your current company. You might disrupt something good if you really like where you're at now and you might want to consider if bringing it up to them would be in your best interest (would you get points for honesty or lose points for disloyalty; are you hoping to leverage this to get more out of your current company?)

SI

Agreed. I think that applies to the new place--I can ask for a handful of things and see if they bite. If so, awesome it'd be worth it. If not, life is good.

[MacroGuru]

Current job:
+I drive about 45 minutes each way to work, spend $200/mo on gas, $70 on car insurance, another $160 on a parking spot, but have no car payment (2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo)
+The job is fun, easy, rarely super busy, tons of freedoms (work from home most Mondays, pretty much by request other days)
+Get along with everyone, they love my work, etc.
+Gym at work where I workout during lunch every day
+401k match mentioned above, fully vested after 3 years (I've been there 6 months)
+Even though I work from home from time to time, I also spend 8-10 hours a week driving in traffic lol

This new job:
+They are (allegedly) moving downtown Chicago which would put them about a 15-20 minute walk away from me so I could sell my car (and the associated bills). Even if they stay in Evanston, it'd be a 20 minute Metra train ride
+No dress code lol
+They weren't too keen on the idea of working from home, ever really
+In selling my car I could pay off my remaining student loan
+I asked for just over a 10% raise when they asked for a salary request
+I also mentioned my work from home setup and benefits when they asked, and they are well aware that I'm very happy at my current position
+May require some travel (might just be a disclaimer)
+No 401k yet


I just went through this with my current employer. I didn't want to leave but I was offered more money, more % of commission and benefits at which I didn't have.

I wanted to stay, went to my employer explained to them what was going, explained to them I really want to stay but these are the issues that are pulling me to this new company.

My company came back and basically matched everything...

[Mike Lowe]

That'd be great, Marco!

Well some news:

Bad News: I emailed a real estate company that was listing the building this new company is in and asked them if it had a gym...it does not! Strike! Maybe the one "after the move" will!

Good News: New company just emailed me asking me, "Either in your previous position or your current role, did you manage direct reports or a team?"

Director? Probably more something along the lines of a team lead.

[Desnudo]

Since you're happy at your current job, an option with company two would be to tell them you need the director position to make it happen.

[Mike Lowe]

Since you're happy at your current job, an option with company two would be to tell them you need the director position to make it happen.

That's interesting...thanks.

[Mike Lowe]

Also adding a daily supply of Dunkin Donuts coffee to the list...

[Mike Lowe]

Update:

They called last night and said:

*They LOVE me and want me to be part of their team
*They have decided not to make an offer because they didn't feel they could come as close as needed to what I asked for and didn't want to insult me
*Perhaps its a line but it seemed very sincere, she told me that they are keeping in touch and that "Mike, I plan on working with you one day for sure." She even said that it was a general line, etc. etc.

I told them thanks and that it wasn't a problem, and to keep me in the loop about moving...well, to The Loop (downtown Chicago)!

[Mike Lowe]

Well, out of nowhere today, I get an email from that company who retracted their offer asking if I was around to talk, to which I said I was.

They called about 15 minutes later and, paraphrasing said:

"We really want to hire you. We were wondering if you'd be willing to discuss things with us further (mentioning some higher up who she was going to loop into the discussion)." I said sure.

"We couldn't offer you your asking price, but we really love your work and want you for our team. I can get you a raise if you're interested in continuing to talk."

I mentioned how it isn't just about money, etc. She understood what I was saying.

Anyway, sounds like they are going to try again?

I wouldn't do it for much less than what I asked for...I also am wanting to work in:

+Definitive date for move downtown, including building address
+Work remote once a week (double what I currently have, once every two weeks)
+401k date for when company plans to have package and a "what if" if it's not there

The other caveat to this whole thing is that I ended up sending my resume in, again, for the director position which was still posted on LinkedIn. I'd love to somehow get into that roll, even though I'm easily 3-5 years away from really qualifying for it (although the double masters seems to help).

Kinda odd, right? I guess it's a good problem to be dealing with.

[jeff061]

To be honest, without getting that director role today I just don't see the benefit outweighing the risk.

That said, I'm only going by a few posts on a message board :).

[Mike Lowe]

Update:

I went in last night for another interview. This was with a woman who was the chief officer, higher up than the original woman I interviewed with. For what it's worth, she had 2 advanced degrees from Harvard, and the three offices next to hers included 2 advanced degrees from Stanford, 1 from Brown University, and another from neighboring Northwestern. I guess not everyone can be a proud grad of Eastern Michigan haha.

It was your basic talking interview. Here are some random thoughts as I just sit and wait...I'm totally undecided and have moments where I'm wanting it and not wanting it. I feel like I'm deciding between two beautiful women haha

She said that the downtown move is anywhere between 6-18 months. Ouch!

She explained the work, the job, and it sounded nice. I LOVE Evanston, and I took the commuter train in and it was very easy and relaxed.

I felt like I was on a college recruiting trip.

The office isn't as nice as the one I'm at now, but the commute is FAR easier (almost as long if I walk home from train 1.8 miles), and their office is THE first building next to the train; you cannot get closer.

This will NOT be the director role, they told me that via email when I brought it up hypothetically last week.

I'd be the 5th designer on a team of what's currently 25 people. I'd be a designer II, so I can't imagine there being more than one other in that group?

We shared similar stories about moving on in order to push ourselves and wanting to make the biggest impact. Sounds like this role would allow me to progress much more rapidly.

They also just emailed me another design test...which I'm glad I double checked with them on because the secretary just forgot I had already done it. Phew! That test took like 2.5 days!

They told me they wanted me to get that test done quickly so that we could come to a "satisfying resolution for everyone quickly."

I'm thinking they might match my request? Who knows.