RIP: Philip Seymour Hoffman

[cartman]

The actor was found dead this morning of an apparent overdose.

Philip Seymour Hoffman found dead after apparent drug overdose: cops | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/02/02/philip-seymour-hoffman-found-dead-in-his-apartment/)

[britrock88]

He was only 46? Wow.

[Logan]

Had no idea of his past issues with drugs. Very sad. His performance in "Charlie Wilson's War" was incredible.

[sovereignstar v2]

Let It Rain!

[Sun Tzu]

Damn. That sucks. I really enjoyed his work. Any movie he was in, I would immediately consider watching for the benign reason that I knew that his character would be watchable.

"That had not occurred to us, Dude."
http://alienationmentale.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/the-big-lebowski-and-brandt.jpg

[JPhillips]

Nuts. He was an incredibly talented actor. His portrayal of Truman Capote was masterful.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Very sad to hear this, I loved his work. One of the few actors out there who could get me interested in a film just because he was in it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TMZ reporting the cops found him with the needle still in his arm

[cthomer5000]

Really talented actor. As the years roll by it becomes clear to me that no matter what your level of success or stature, everyone is dealing with their own serious life issues.

[MacroGuru]

Aww Damn,

he is one of my favorite actors. This sucks.

RIP

[Kodos]

Awful. He went to my school in Fairport, New York. My brother was classmates with him I believe, although I think they were merely acquaintances. It's always the talented guys that die young. R.I.P.

[Peregrine]

Wow this sucks - one of the best actors around in my opinion.

[Glengoyne]

Wow this sucks - one of the best actors around in my opinion.


This. Just too bad.

[Suicane75]

Damn. He always had this darkness to him but I never guessed he was an addict. So fucking brilliant, it's such a waste.

[PilotMan]

Oh damn NO!

He is one of my favorites to see in movies. He is a massively talented actor who is one of the rare ones who can totally own a role. So sad to see him gone.

[Lathum]

Can't feel bad for a guy who voluntarily sticks a needle in his arm and injects himself with poison.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think anyone here is feeling bad for him. I think people are just upset to see such a rare talent suddenly disappear from existence, regardless of the reason.

G-MEN!

[Groundhog]

It boggles the mind that someone in his position would take heroin - although I'm sure it's more widespread than I realise.

[stevew]

There are so many better drugs that do similar things that you can abuse. I can't see still doing heroin.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, that's my thinking too. It's like... everyone now knows all too well what the end-game is for heroin abuse. Seriously.

[cthomer5000]

Can't feel bad for a guy who voluntarily sticks a needle in his arm and injects himself with poison.

Sure, but I can feel bad for a guy who seems to have everything going for him and still feels he needs to turn to this kind of stuff. It's human tragedy, even if self inflicted.

[Grover]

This is terrible news.

One of the finest actors of this generation without a doubt. Could make anything (like MI:3) watchable.

[PilotMan]

I know his big characters were all that people remember but his work in indies is excellent.

Specifically I enjoyed him in Love Liza, Jack Goes Boating, Pirate Radio, The Ides of March and The Savages.

I'm sure I'll go on a binge of his movies now.

[Abe Sargent]

Can't feel bad for a guy who voluntarily sticks a needle in his arm and injects himself with poison.

I can, because he was a human being, created in the image of God. The one who knew him best loved him completely and thoroughly, and thus I should to.

[The Afoci]

He let me take any rug in the place. I will never forget that.

I got nothing.

[Matthean]

I was always impressed with what he did. He was so incredibly good in Capote. This might be one of the few actors I actually somewhat cared about seeing pass away.

[Julio Riddols]

This one sucks, but goddamn.. Who else is on heroin? Why can't they just smoke really really good weed? Surely that would be preferable to spiraling into oblivion.

[Qwikshot]

It's a damn shame. He struggled, he tried to get help BUT in the words of Keith Richards from My Life:

"It's not only the high quality of drugs I had that I attribute my survival to. I was very meticulous about how much I took. I'd never put more in to get a little higher. That's where most people f*ck up on drugs. It's the greed involved that never really affected me. People think once they've got this high, if they take some more they're going to get a little higher. There's no such thing. Especially with cocaine … Maybe that's a measure of control and maybe I'm rare in that respect. Maybe there I have an advantage."

[JonInMiddleGA]

This one sucks, but goddamn.. Who else is on heroin?

Aside from the big names of the past (Jim Morrison, John Belushi, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin) more recent celebrities killed by the drug include the late Corey Monteith (from Glee)and Chris Kelly (from Kriss Kross). Survivors with an acknowledged past include Russell Brand and Angelina Jolie.

I thought Brand in particular had a notable quote recently "The last time I thought about heroin was yesterday"

[Flasch186]

This stuff doesnt sadden me anymore. I feel a loss because of the characters I wont see in movies played by him. I feel saddened for his family but I no longer feel sadness for the person who took their own life.

In other news Smoking causes Cancer.

[flere-imsaho]

A terrible shame, and waste.

[NobodyHere]

This stuff doesnt sadden me anymore. I feel a loss because of the characters I wont see in movies played by him. I feel saddened for his family but I no longer feel sadness for the person who took their own life.

In other news Smoking causes Cancer.

I can feel sad for him because he likely experienced a lot of suffering and turmoil through his addiction. I wish things would've turned out differently for him.

Tragedy all around.

[molson]

Aside from the big names of the past (Jim Morrison, John Belushi, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin) more recent celebrities killed by the drug include the late Corey Monteith (from Glee)and Chris Kelly (from Kriss Kross). Survivors with an acknowledged past include Russell Brand and Angelina Jolie.

I thought Brand in particular had a notable quote recently "The last time I thought about heroin was yesterday"

From what I've read, it goes so far beyond a physical high. All your stresses and problems are gone but it's more than that, it's an enlightenment on top of it, like 10 years of successful therapy all at once. And all you have to give up in exchange is your soul. Heroin owns you like other drugs don't. Hoffman and others knew it would probably kill them, but they didn't care, not when they're chasing that high, or for addicts, when they're chasing normal.

[Galaxy]

I can, because he was a human being, created in the image of God. The one who knew him best loved him completely and thoroughly, and thus I should to.

God creates heroin users?

I can feel sad for him because he likely experienced a lot of suffering and turmoil through his addiction. I wish things would've turned out differently for him.

Tragedy all around.

I agree with Flash. He created his own suffering and turmoil. The family are ones who are innocently suffering from his addiction.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, God creates everyone - so yeah, heroin users too ;).

[Ben E Lou]

I'd never heard of the guy before the news broke that he died. (I don't think I've seen more than 3 new movies in a given calendar year since the late 90s.) But reading this snippet about someone who was clearly talented and successful in his chosen field does make me feel pity for him:Authorities investigating the death of actor Philip Seymour Hoffman found close to 50 bags containing what is believed to be heroin in his apartment, two law enforcement sources familiar with the probe said Monday. Investigators also found several bottles of prescription drugs, and more than 20 used syringes in a plastic cup, the sources said.

[larrymcg421]

When I broke my foot, I was put on Percoset for a month to help deal with the intense pain as I recovered. When it was time to stop taking the Percoset, that was probably the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life. At that time, I had someone living with me who really cared about me and helped me through that situation. But if I didn't, I can't say I wouldn't have turned into a horrible addict. There's a thin line between people like me and the Hoffmans or Monteiths of the world. I could have easily been in their situation. I have beaten addiction so far, but it has been harder than anything else I've done. Going back to college and getting my degree was a piece of cake in comparison. Thus, I do feel sadness for someone who loses that battle. Similarly, I feel sadness for a smoker who dies of lung cancer. an alcoholic who dies of liver disease, or someone who puts a gun in their mouth and pulls the trigger. These are all incredibly sad and tragic situations.

[Lathum]

When I broke my foot, I was put on Percoset for a month to help deal with the intense pain as I recovered. When it was time to stop taking the Percoset, that was probably the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life. At that time, I had someone living with me who really cared about me and helped me through that situation. But if I didn't, I can't say I wouldn't have turned into a horrible addict. There's a thin line between people like me and the Hoffmans or Monteiths of the world. I could have easily been in their situation. I have beaten addiction so far, but it has been harder than anything else I've done. Going back to college and getting my degree was a piece of cake in comparison. Thus, I do feel sadness for someone who loses that battle. Similarly, I feel sadness for a smoker who dies of lung cancer. an alcoholic who dies of liver disease, or someone who puts a gun in their mouth and pulls the trigger. These are all incredibly sad and tragic situations.

Thanks for sharing, I mean that sincerely, I can't imagine your struggle.

My problem is, and maybe it makes me an asshole, is I have a hard time caring or feeling bad for someone who has all the means in the world to battle their addictions and chooses not to.

[ISiddiqui]

IIRC, Hoffman did go into rehab last year.

[cartman]

If they have all the means to battle it, then they also have all the means to give in to it.

[larrymcg421]

IIRC, Hoffman did go into rehab last year.

Yeah, he was sober for 20 years before relapsing and checking into rehab in May of last year.

[molson]

I can't pretend to know what it's like to be an addict, but I've read enough about it to know that it's not something you can just spend away. There's no amount of money that cures it. But money can help speed your decline (heroin ain't cheap).

[Lathum]

all true.

I guess I'm just an asshole

[molson]

all true.

I guess I'm just an asshole

Not an asshole, I think it's just impossible to really understand what it's like to be in that situation, especially with heroin. I've read quite a bit and talked to a lot of people trying to understand it, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly understand. You're right in that it makes so practical sense from a logical perspective to go down that road. There's a reason that drug counselors are so often addicts themselves.

[sabotai]

IIRC, Hoffman did go into rehab last year.

From what I've read, he was in rehab in 2012, as well as once or twice before then.

And I can understand how someone can get hooked. Awhile back, I was given Oxycodone (generic Percoset) for when I had my wisdom teeth taken out. Or maybe it was for my migraines. I don't remember exactly what it was for. I certainly do remember how that drug made me feel. When I'm 90 and my brains are scrambled eggs, if I remember one thing from my life....it'll be how awesome sex without a condom is. But if I have a second memory, it'll be how I felt after popping two Oxycodone.

Luckily, I didn't have much pain. I only took them for a few days, so I didn't go through withdrawal like larry did. But if I had to take them for two weeks or longer, and felt that awesome feeling every day, I don't doubt I would have been a mess at the end of it.

[Suicane75]

Think of how awesome an orgasm feels. Now imagine that it was bad for you and you should never have one again. Multiply that by about 100.

[Lathum]

Think of how awesome an orgasm feels. Now imagine that it was bad for you and you should never have one again. Multiply that by about 100.

So the cure for heroin addiction is marriage?

[Grover]

I highly suggest for people to read stories like Junky and Naked Lunch from William S Burroughs. Two novels that were fueled by a man writing while hooked on heroin.

[digamma]

Think of how awesome an orgasm feels. Now imagine that it was bad for you and you should never have one again. Multiply that by about 100.

Yeah, my stepfather has been an addiction counselor for 40 years. The best comparison I've heard him make is an addict cravings to the worst possible case of diarrhea you can imagine. Multiplied to whatever factor you need to take it beyond your imagination. Maybe it's because I'm still changing my kid's diapers, but that somehow made sense to me.

RIP PSH.

[molson]

He had a kind of interesting degree of fame. Just from my facebook wall, there's a lot of people expressing sadness and admiration, then a lot of people wondering who the hell he was, and then there's a lot of responses of bewilderment that someone couldn't know who he was.

[Alf]

IIRC, Hoffman did go into rehab last year.

They tried to make me go to rehab but I said, "No, no, no"

couldn't help post that as it's one of our prefered songs in my cover band.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Somewhere in the "how hard it is to kick" discussion it seems relevant that, by all accounts I've seen, he stopped for +/- 20 years before resuming the habit.

Make of that what you will I guess, but it seems as though it has some relevance somewhere.

[Blackadar]

So the cure for heroin addiction is marriage?

No, that's the cure for sex.

[Grover]

Somewhere in the "how hard it is to kick" discussion it seems relevant that, by all accounts I've seen, he stopped for +/- 20 years before resuming the habit.

Make of that what you will I guess, but it seems as though it has some relevance somewhere.

It's very hard for us to say whether something could have happened in his life that triggered the relapse.

And you look back at that Russell Brand quote "The last time I thought about heroin was yesterday."

He may have kicked it for 20 years, but it doesn't mean he wasn't thinking about it every single day.

[RomaGoth]

RIP PSH...

[Kodos]

From an email with my brother:

"As for PSH, that was really too bad. I heard he had a drug issue in his early 20's, though I missed until today that he had checked himself into rehab last spring. I really liked him as an actor since he wasn't on the screen for his looks, but instead because he was just a good actor, similar to Jack Nicholson for example. He graduated the year ahead of me. Our circles of friends crossed on some occasions, though I wouldn't put him in the friend category. I do recall him staring as Willy Lohman in Death of a Salesman my junior year. Would never want my kids to be involved in the music or film industry as the fame, money, and culture seems to ruin most kids who ever get into it."

[korme]

From Maron today, well said IMO- " Drug addiction is the closest true parallel to demonic possession that I know of. Having been possessed myself there is no worse feeling than being held hostage in your own body and mind by a demon that is hijacking and dictating all of your decisions. The demon is using your will to kill you in the name of relief and euphoria. That is the horror of the disease of addiction and I am sad that it took Hoffman. He will be missed."

[Fidatelo]

I don't find the addiction part as hard to understand as the fact anyone ever tries heroin in the first place. Like has been said earlier in the thread, we all know what the eventual likely outcome is. And not only that, but you have to stick a friggin' needle in your arm to do it! I'm not sure where I'd have to be in my head to get past those barriers the first time.

[molson]

I think a lot of times people turn to heroin to help with the withdrawals of other addictions, like from prescription medication. Or they're self-medicating a mental health issue.

[Sun Tzu]

...And not only that, but you have to stick a friggin' needle in your arm to do it...

Well, FWIW it was reported that he was snorting it, not shooting it. Still...I agree with the whole "everyone knows what's likely to happen" thought process. If you're doing heroine in any form, you're already on your way out.

[rowech]

Well, FWIW it was reported that he was snorting it, not shooting it. Still...I agree with the whole "everyone knows what's likely to happen" thought process. If you're doing heroine in any form, you're already on your way out.

Not sure where you are getting info but he died with a needle in his arm.

[Sun Tzu]

Not sure where you are getting info but he died with a needle in his arm.

Philip Seymour Hoffman Out of Rehab After 10-Day Stint : People.com (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20704909,00.html)

[molson]

Philip Seymour Hoffman Out of Rehab After 10-Day Stint : People.com (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20704909,00.html)

That was last year, but yesterday he was found dead with a needle in his arm and 20 used syringes in a plastic cup nearby.

Which I think would be a typical progression. If you're a heavy user you might have withdrawal bad enough that only IV use will help. That's how a lot of people get to that point. You have the worst nasuea ever, can't sleep, are shivering, etc, the only way to get rid of it is to stick a needle in your arm. It makes a lot of sense then.

[Fidatelo]

I did not know you could snort heroin. That does make some sense then.

Now excuse me while I hug my kids and pray they never need to know that either.

[RomaGoth]

I don't find the addiction part as hard to understand as the fact anyone ever tries heroin in the first place. Like has been said earlier in the thread, we all know what the eventual likely outcome is. And not only that, but you have to stick a friggin' needle in your arm to do it! I'm not sure where I'd have to be in my head to get past those barriers the first time.

I realize that smoking and shooting up heroin are miles apart in most respects, but isn't it the same in one way? At this point, everyone should know that smoking cigarettes is bad for you and causes cancer, yet millions of people still smoke with newbies starting every day. Doesn't make sense to me...at all.

I did not know you could snort heroin. That does make some sense then.

Now excuse me while I hug my kids and pray they never need to know that either.

+2

[Fidatelo]

I realize that smoking and shooting up heroin are miles apart in most respects, but isn't it the same in one way? At this point, everyone should know that smoking cigarettes is bad for you and causes cancer, yet millions of people still smoke with newbies starting every day. Doesn't make sense to me...at all.


But smoking is legal, and so much more casual, and while dangerous it's not 'you will get hooked immediately and be stealing from your loved ones and giving blow jobs for hits' dangerous. And then there are the needles. Seriously, fucking needles. I can see alternate universes where someone hits me at the exact right (wrong) time and convinces me to do cocaine or LSD or something, but I can't imagine ever letting someone that isn't in a doctor's office or hospital convince me to jam a syringe into my arm because it might feel good after.

[Kodos]

Workman's Waste of Time: Phil Hoffman, RIP (http://workman.blogspot.com/2014/02/phil-hoffman-rip.html?m=1)

A eulogy from a fellow Fairport High School alum.

[molson]

The risks of selling heroin to a celebrity. Though, to be fair, if one of your clients OD's with your number in his cell phone, the police are probably coming after you regardless. But the notoriety won't be helpful when trying to work a plea deal or a lenient sentence. I've also seen some prosecutors attempt to attach more aggravated charges, like manslaughter or even second degree murder, where someone sells drugs to someone who ends up dead.

Source: 4 arrested in Philip Seymour Hoffman drug probe - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

[Grover]

Aaron Sorkin: Philip Seymour Hoffman and Drug Addiction | TIME.com (http://entertainment.time.com/2014/02/05/aaron-sorkin-philip-seymour-hoffmans-death-saved-10-lives/)

A short piece from Aaron Sorkin on PSH.

[law90026]

Addiction is a bitch. It plays with your mind and even when, rationally, you know that you shouldn't be doing it, your body tells you differently and you do it anyway, even though you know the risks/consequences. I would not judge an addict for succumbing.

[Grover]

Russell Brand: Philip Seymour Hoffman is another victim of extremely stupid drug laws | Comment is free | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/06/russell-brand-philip-seymour-hoffman-drug-laws)

Russell Brand weighs in.

[molson]

I'm on board the feeling-sympathy-for-Hoffman-and-drug-addicts-generally side of things but people like Russell Brand who want to blame others for their plight makes that difficult.

I do wonder what Brand's world would look like. Where heroin was legal and heroin addiction "not stigmatized." Where the state somehow has acquired the power to cure all addiction with a magic wand, just by spending enough money. That last part always bewilders me. People with huge resources fall victim to addiction. Why do so many people think it's so easy for a court to sentence someone, against their will, usually, to be cured from addiction with treatment and rehabilitation? They try, today, it doesn't work. And no state will ever be able to spend as much money on every individual addict that Hoffman, and Brand had to spend on themselves. Maybe Brand should cure others' addiction with his own money.

Edit: I don't know Hoffman obviously, but I'd like to think that he'd tell Brand to shut the fuck up, that he made his own choices and was ultimately responsible for them, and just lost the battle. It doesn't make Hoffman a bad guy, and it doesn't mean I don't feel sympathy for him. But it's not the government's fault.

[ISiddiqui]

Brand actually lists two countries that have changed their laws: Portugal and Switzerland and asks us to follow their leads. I don't think he ever says the state can cure all addiction - but the state can make it so addiction isn't considered something that is "your fault", but rather treated like a disease to be managed.

[molson]

Brand actually lists two countries that have changed their laws: Portugal and Switzerland and asks us to follow their leads. I don't think he ever says the state can cure all addiction - but the state can make it so addiction isn't considered something that is "your fault", but rather treated like a disease to be managed.

Hoffman had all the resources in the world to treat his addiction "as a disease". He's dead. And it wasn't like this was some secret he was desperately trying to keep. He went on 60 minutes to talk about it, and had gone to rehab. Still dead.

Effective (which is always a relative term when it comes to this stuff) drug treatment programs typically don't start with the idea that, "this isn't your fault." It is ALL on the addict to take responsibility and lead his own destiny. States send TONS of money on sympathetic approaches to drug addictions, rehabilitation efforts, all free, and unless the addict is on board, these go nowhere. If all it takes is money and the right laws, why didn't Brand just fix Hoffman? Laws weren't holding either of them back.

Edit: To my knowledge, neither Brand nor Hoffman ever went through the criminal justice process in the States (their wealth and celebrity probably helps in that regard, drugs are more easily accessible to them), so I don't know what makes Brand such an expert about what states attempt to do now and why its their fault Hoffman is dead. I'll listen to this kind of stuff maybe when it comes to the homeless junkie-type heroin addicts, and how it might be a net societal gain to give them more free help even outside the criminal justice system, but celebrity pity parties are just painful to listen to. With all their advantages, to then blame the government for their individual plights - shut the fuck up.

[sterlingice]

Russell Brand: Philip Seymour Hoffman is another victim of extremely stupid drug laws | Comment is free | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/06/russell-brand-philip-seymour-hoffman-drug-laws)

Russell Brand weighs in.

I'm not sure I agree with this premise, which is the logical crux of the article:


This is an important moment in history; we know that prohibition does not work. We know that the people who devise drug laws are out of touch and have no idea how to reach a solution. Do they even have the inclination? The fact is their methods are so gallingly ineffective that it is difficult not to deduce that they are deliberately creating the worst imaginable circumstances to maximise the harm caused by substance misuse.

People are going to use drugs; no self-respecting drug addict is even remotely deterred by prohibition. What prohibition achieves is an unregulated, criminal-controlled, sprawling, global mob-economy, where drug users, their families and society at large are all exposed to the worst conceivable version of this regrettably unavoidable problem.

I think saying "prohibition does not work" is false. I think "prohibition of alcohol in 1920s USA did not work" is more accurate.

We prohibit many things as part of our social contract. We prohibit murder. It doesn't prevent all murders but we don't throw the proverbial law out with the bathwater because it's not 100% effective.

But that's not an item? Well, ok- I can't own plutonium. And I think we're pretty effective at prohibiting the owning of plutonium. For the most part, tho, there are few things that we have all out prohibition on. Mostly, we have very stringent regulation on "controlled" substances.

Not an digestible item (at some point, you're just doing enough scope shrink so that there are no comparable items)? How about Vicodin? I can't just go down to the local Kroger and buy a 100 pill dose. I would need to get it prescribed and dispensed by trained professionals.

Heck, I worked at on site at a drug company. They had very strongly regulated and monitored (down to the mg) levels of opiates. I, as a civilian non-doctor individual, could not get them. But they could to try and create new drugs. So, the unknown mid-level manager of a pharma could get heroin legally but Hoffman can't? Well, yeah- actually. We have decided as a society that these are the rules we are going to live by.

To bring it back around to prohibition: why did alcohol prohibition fail in the 20s and why did marijuana prohibition pretty much fail in the 80s-now? Laws were passed that a large enough chunk of society was not willing to abide by. And that can happen for any number of reasons: overzealous legislators, a populace that didn't think about the costs of the action, unintended consequences, situational change, whatever- any number of reasons.

Most of society is still ok with not doing heroin and with not allowing others to not do heroin. And I don't think this case is going to change that.

SI