Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

[cartman]

This is just a strange situation. The plane disappeared from radar on Saturday, and there has been no trace of the plane since then. No wreckage has been found, and apparently none of the locator beacons are transmitting.

[Lathum]

I read this book, Balky Bartockomus is the bad guy.

In all seriousness, prayers for all involved, can't imagine having a loved one up there.

[Qwikshot]

This is just a strange situation. The plane disappeared from radar on Saturday, and there has been no trace of the plane since then. No wreckage has been found, and apparently none of the locator beacons are transmitting.

I'm nervewracked a little myself. I fly to Beijing on Saturday on the same type of plane, though with United.

I'm more concerned that this is also due to the Chinese Separatists who did the mass stabbing in Kunming. I am traveling to the Yunnan province which is Kunming's capital. I'm slightly concerned with the United flight, but moreso because we'll be taking a plane from Beijing to either Dali or Kunming.

Two weeks later I'll be flying out of Shanghai to SanFran, but needless to say I'm more nervous than usual. (I hate flying regardless).

My mother however is going to be a wreck as:

I'll be flying out of DC to Beijing (United)
My wife and 2 year old will be flying from Newark to Seattle (Alaskan)
My daughter will be flying from Philly to Dallas Ft. Worth (American)

All on the same day.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm still wondering how the hell an entire plane vanished in this day and age, with all the tracking available.

[jeff061]

On the terrorism front, if that were the case wouldn't someone be taking credit by now? Isn't that a fundamental part of a terrorist act? At least that's how I define it.

[digamma]

I think the terrorism angle is being fueled largely by the fact that at least two passengers were flying on stolen passports and that those two individuals booked their tickets together. But, yes, your point is a good one.

[Qwikshot]

On the terrorism front, if that were the case wouldn't someone be taking credit by now? Isn't that a fundamental part of a terrorist act? At least that's how I define it.

I can only conclude that if it was say Chinese separatists who contact a government agency in China, or the press and it's being suppressed by said government.

I agree it's totally bizarre. The conclusion is probably even nerve-wracking, that the crew much like Air France, created a situation that they could not recover from.

The whole transponder thing gets me but then I realize it's Malaysian Air we're talking about.

[claphamsa]

I'm nervewracked a little myself. I fly to Beijing on Saturday on the same type of plane, though with United.

I'm more concerned that this is also due to the Chinese Separatists who did the mass stabbing in Kunming. I am traveling to the Yunnan province which is Kunming's capital. I'm slightly concerned with the United flight, but moreso because we'll be taking a plane from Beijing to either Dali or Kunming.

Two weeks later I'll be flying out of Shanghai to SanFran, but needless to say I'm more nervous than usual. (I hate flying regardless).

My mother however is going to be a wreck as:

I'll be flying out of DC to Beijing (United)
My wife and 2 year old will be flying from Newark to Seattle (Alaskan)
My daughter will be flying from Philly to Dallas Ft. Worth (American)

All on the same day.

how long will you be in DC for?

[Qwikshot]

how long will you be in DC for?

Just overnight, I go down to Arlington once a month for school...though I'm graduating in May if I'm lucky.

[JPhillips]

One of the Malaysian authorities said the footage of the two men that used the stolen passports showed that they were, "not Asian looking" men. If correct that would likely rule out separatists, right?

Very strange all around. It's like the opening scenario of a Bond film.

[Qwikshot]

One of the Malaysian authorities said the footage of the two men that used the stolen passports showed that they were, "not Asian looking" men. If correct that would likely rule out separatists, right?

Very strange all around. It's like the opening scenario of a Bond film.

Uyghur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people)

These are the the group that attacked in the train station, they are very euro-centric looking for the most part.

[sterlingice]

I think the terrorism angle is being fueled largely by the fact that at least two passengers were flying on stolen passports and that those two individuals booked their tickets together. But, yes, your point is a good one.

I wonder how often that happens. Is this one of those things that happens "all the time" but we never hear about or is this rare

SI

[cartman]

I wonder how often that happens. Is this one of those things that happens "all the time" but we never hear about or is this rare

SI

Evidently it is pretty common.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH370: Stolen passports market big in Thailand - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0310/Malaysia-Airlines-flight-MH370-Stolen-passports-market-big-in-Thailand)

edit: I just find it hard to believe that there is a way to track stolen passports, and the list is rarely referenced.

[BishopMVP]

Any thought that it might have been shot down intentionally or unintentionally by one of the militaries? It was about to enter Vietnamese air space and off course when "contact was lost", there were multiple people on board with stolen passports...

[cartman]

Any thought that it might have been shot down intentionally or unintentionally by one of the militaries? It was about to enter Vietnamese air space and off course when "contact was lost", there were multiple people on board with stolen passports...

If it were, there likely would have been a large debris field.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

It's looking more and more like this may become an unsolved mystery. "What ever happened to..." Conspiracy theories may commence.

[jeff061]

It's only been a couple days, I doubt this won't be figured out.

And I'm sure conspiracy theories have already commenced.

[Alan T]

It's looking more and more like this may become an unsolved mystery.


Or an ABC Tv series

[Kodos]

I think your reference may be Lost on some people.

[Thomkal]

+1 to Kodos and Alan T for getting to the Lost reference before I could

[FBPro]

Nice on the comments, not so nice on the situation.

[cartman]

Here's a pretty awesome aviation site I wasn't aware of. It does real-time tracking of almost every flight around the world.

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/)

The co-founder of the site has been interviewed quite a bit regarding this incident.

Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China - Flight MH370 (http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/7146-Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-Goes-Missing-En-Route-to-China-Flight-MH370)

[RainMaker]

I'm nervewracked a little myself. I fly to Beijing on Saturday on the same type of plane, though with United.


The drive to the airport is much more dangerous. These are always scary, but it is incredibly rare.

[CraigSca]

flightaware is the one I use - you can not only see flights that are currently in the air but those in the past as well (great for checking out your own flights, after the fact).

[sterlingice]

flightaware is the one I use - you can not only see flights that are currently in the air but those in the past as well (great for checking out your own flights, after the fact).

Yeah, I'm a big fan of flightaware

SI

[PilotMan]

The simplest explanation might be pilot suicide. Like the Egypt Air crash from few years ago. Point it to the ocean and dive in. I think it would disappear pretty quickly. I don't know anything but it's simple.

[BishopMVP]

If it were, there likely would have been a large debris field.I thought they were still trying to find the debris field.

[bhlloy]

The simplest explanation might be pilot suicide. Like the Egypt Air crash from few years ago. Point it to the ocean and dive in. I think it would disappear pretty quickly. I don't know anything but it's simple.

Is it usual for one of the flight crew to leave the cabin that soon into the flight though? That definitely fits given there's no warning or apparent issue with the plane at all.

I also wonder, given the (at least) two people we know were on the flight with fake passports, and the seemingly completely lax attitude of security at the departure airport, and the fact that the plane just disappeared off radar with no warning or indication anything was wrong whether it's possible to get a bomb onto a plane that completely obliterates the thing to the point that there might not be that much wreckage to look for. Still defeats the point I suppose that nobody has claimed it yet, and even if the Chinese were keeping it quiet surely it would have got out through other channels by now.

[JediKooter]

I'm no expert on oil slicks, but, my thinking is: If the plane exploded in air at cruising altitude, how could there be an oil slick? I would imagine that the fuel and oil would be too dispersed to create an oil slick. Now if the plane hit the water intact (or mostly intact), that makes much more sense to me as to why there would be an oil slick.

EDIT: The slick is probably more due to hydraulic fluid than oil. Oil slick just seems to be the common term.

[dacman]

If the plane exploded at altitude, you're correct, there likely wouldn't be a slick.

In this case the "oil" would be the jet fuel -- thousands of gallons worth.

[JediKooter]

If the plane exploded at altitude, you're correct, there likely wouldn't be a slick.

In this case the "oil" would be the jet fuel -- thousands of gallons worth.

Yes, jet fuel would be far more accurate, thank you. Especially since it wasn't too far into its journey.

[PilotMan]

Is it usual for one of the flight crew to leave the cabin that soon into the flight though? That definitely fits given there's no warning or apparent issue with the plane at all.

I also wonder, given the (at least) two people we know were on the flight with fake passports, and the seemingly completely lax attitude of security at the departure airport, and the fact that the plane just disappeared off radar with no warning or indication anything was wrong whether it's possible to get a bomb onto a plane that completely obliterates the thing to the point that there might not be that much wreckage to look for. Still defeats the point I suppose that nobody has claimed it yet, and even if the Chinese were keeping it quiet surely it would have got out through other channels by now.

Two hours into the flight would be a pretty reasonable potty break time for the pilots. This flight only had the 2 pilots, as it was less than 8 hours. There was no need for a relief pilot.

It thought I had heard that the oil slicks that they had found were not related to the plane at all. The oil didn't match what they would have expected to find.

Oh the conspiracy theories are certainly there. I won't even post the web side that this came from cause it doesn't deserve the attention. I couldn't keep a straight face while reading it though.

Conclusion: Flight 370 did not explode; it vanished

The inescapable conclusion from what we know so far is that Flight 370 seems to have utterly and inexplicably vanished. It clearly was not hijacked (unless there is a cover-up regarding the radar data), and we can all be increasingly confident by the hour that this was not a mid-air explosion (unless debris suddenly turns up that they've somehow missed all along).

The inescapable conclusion is that Flight 370 simply vanished in some way that we do not yet understand. This is what is currently giving rise to all sorts of bizarre-sounding theories across the 'net, including discussions of possible secret military weapons tests, Bermuda Triangle-like ripples in the fabric of spacetime, and even conjecture that non-terrestrial (alien) technology may have teleported the plane away.

Personally, I'm not buying any of that without a lot more evidence. The most likely explanation so far is that the debris simply hasn't been found yet because it fell over an area which is somehow outside the search zone. But as each day goes by, even this explanation becomes harder and harder to swallow.

The frightening part about all this is not that we will find the debris of Flight 370; but rather that we won't. If we never find the debris, it means some entirely new, mysterious and powerful force is at work on our planet which can pluck airplanes out of the sky without leaving behind even a shred of evidence.

If there does exist a weapon with such capabilities, whoever control it already has the ability to dominate all of Earth's nations with a fearsome military weapon of unimaginable power. That thought is a lot more scary than the idea of an aircraft suffering a fatal mechanical failure.

[bulletsponge]

http://i.imgur.com/x2Xeukz.jpg

[JediKooter]

.

[cartman]

It is strange that they are apparently now focusing the search in an area pretty far west of the last known radar location.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/10/Foreign/Graphics/MalaysiaSearch_graphic.jpg

[bhlloy]

Yeah, that struck me as very interesting as well. They must know something that the rest of the world doesn't yet.

[BillyNYC]

Flew Malaysian Airlines from Kuala Lumpur in November (a much shorter flight, to Penang; not to Beijing). Didn't notice anything peculiar securitywise. Granted, I did have a valid non-stolen passport.

[cartman]

A commercial satellite company has snapped pics of the South China Sea/Gulf of Thailand area and has opened up the pics for crowdsourcing.

Tomnod (http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014?source=malaysia)

edit: looks like their servers might be getting hammered at the moment

[molson]

"If we never find the debris, it means some entirely new, mysterious and powerful force is at work on our planet which can pluck airplanes out of the sky without leaving behind even a shred of evidence."

Flawless logic.

[JediKooter]

"If we never find the debris, it means some entirely new, mysterious and powerful force is at work on our planet which can pluck airplanes out of the sky without leaving behind even a shred of evidence."

Flawless logic.

Could someone please ping Amelia Earhart?

[Neon_Chaos]

Apparently their celphones were ringing as of yesterday.

Strange: Cell Phones of Some Passengers of Missing Flight MH370 Rings, But No One Answers | Kicker Daily News (http://kickerdaily.com/strange-cell-phones-of-some-passengers-of-missing-flight-mh370-rings-but-no-one-answers/)

[JediKooter]

I think, whoever was calling those numbers heard a 'ring', not that the passengers phones were actually really ringing. If I turn my cell phone off, if someone calls my number, they will hear still a 'ring'.

[stevew]

Hopefully it wasn't the Kaiju entering our dimension.

[Suicane75]

If this turns out to be some weird Godzilla tie in, I will be outraged.

[sterlingice]

Lost, schmost. I saw a documentary (http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Tempus_Fugit) on this that predates Lost.

SI

[molson]

I think, whoever was calling those numbers heard a 'ring', not that the passengers phones were actually really ringing. If I turn my cell phone off, if someone calls my number, they will hear still a 'ring'.

Ya, I'm not sure what they expected. "I'm sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed because this phone is currently at the bottom of the ocean."

[nilodor]

Ya, I'm not sure what they expected. "I'm sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed because this phone is currently at the bottom of the ocean."

And I'm pretty sure if they were active the would have tried tracking those phones to see if they were still hitting some towers.

[dacman]

It is strange that they are apparently now focusing the search in an area pretty far west of the last known radar location.

Read rumors of this yesterday -- first I've seen it mentioned in the press:

Malaysian Airlines mystery: Military says missing jet changed course - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysian-airlines-mystery-military-says-missing-jet-changed-course/)

[molson]

The simplest explanation might be pilot suicide. Like the Egypt Air crash from few years ago. Point it to the ocean and dive in. I think it would disappear pretty quickly. I don't know anything but it's simple.

Could a pilot do anything to make the plane more difficult to track during a flight and more difficult to find wreckage of after a crash? Like if he just wanted himself and the plane to "vanish"?

[cartman]

Could a pilot do anything to make the plane more difficult to track during a flight and more difficult to find wreckage of after a crash? Like if he just wanted himself and the plane to "vanish"?

Plenty of things a pilot could do to make the plane more difficult to track. As has been mentioned, most all of the communications that planes make are radio based. So simply turning off the radios turns makes tracking more difficult. Evidently this plane also had ACARS, which is a system that automatically sends data back to home base via radio or satellite link. ACARS was on the big reasons they were able to locate the Air France flight from a few years back in a relatively short period of time in the middle of the Atlantic.

Also, if the pilot was skilled enough, once they turned off any transmitting devices, they could fly low to try and evade surface radar. But from what info the Malaysian military has released, the plane was still flying at a normal cruising altitude when they lost track of it west of the country.

edit: another military source said it was flying low at the time, so who knows

[Qwikshot]

I wonder if now, based on the events, they had an oxygen failure. They may have been trying to turn back but expired, and the plane headed West until fuel failure.

More sinister, would be yes, the pilot turning off the transponder and doing it deliberately, making search parties look in the wrong spot until most evidence was washed away from the plane crashing into the ocean after losing all fuel.

Jesus, that's horrific.

[Qwikshot]

Could a pilot do anything to make the plane more difficult to track during a flight and more difficult to find wreckage of after a crash? Like if he just wanted himself and the plane to "vanish"?

I don't get why it would go that far off course, the Air Egypt, the guy just gunned it for the ocean as soon as the captain was out of the cockpit.

[corbes]

oxygen failure.

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

[cartman]

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

It definitely could, but if that happened, you'd think that the transponders and such would have continued to function.

[Logan]

I have the Payne Stewart flight in mind. Couldn't that be at least part of the explanation?

How would that affect the locating equipment?

edit: Too slow.

[cartman]

Now another Malaysian air force official is refuting the reports that the military tracked the plane hundreds of miles to the west of the last transponder location. What a charlie foxtrot.

[JediKooter]

Ya, I'm not sure what they expected. "I'm sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed because this phone is currently at the bottom of the ocean."

Yea I'm not sure what they were expecting either, of course it's going to ring in your ear, it's a cell phone. Conspicuously absent from cell phones (never mind the name of them) is that long chord that plugs into the wall.

[PilotMan]

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that radar is very spotty in that area. Even when I'm flying east of the US over the Atlantic I go out of radar contact, even though I'm in radio contact. The company and ATC rely on reports that I or the plane make to get position reports. So when the news says "they lost radar contact" it doesn't mean that the plane just disappeared. It means that there wasn't coverage and it was supposed to get back into radar coverage until it was closer toward Vietnam. It never checked in and they lost track of where the plane was.

Now I don't know about the automated ACARS that the 777 has, but a few circuit breaker pulls and I can disable that and the transponder. If I just stop reporting on the radio I'm basically invisible. I have charts and I can see where there is radar coverage and where there isn't.

[Logan]

Now I don't know about the automated ACARS that the 777 has, but a few circuit breaker pulls and I can disable that and the transponder. If I just stop reporting on the radio I'm basically invisible. I have charts and I can see where there is radar coverage and where there isn't.

Is there any legitimate reason you would ever do this?

[PilotMan]

Nope

Not in the line of the job of transporting people.

And again, there are 2 of us, and 1 of us would surely object. To physical combat if it came to that.

[Qwikshot]

This is an extended range plane yes? Based on its trajectory (going West) what land would it hit...if any? How far can it go?

[RainMaker]

It took them days to find the Air France flight. Years to uncover the majority of the wreckage and bodies. Unfortunately this is one of those cases where we realize just how vast the planet is.

[cartman]

This is an extended range plane yes? Based on its trajectory (going West) what land would it hit...if any? How far can it go?

Depends on what the fuel load was. If they were flying to Beijing, that is supposed to be around a 6 1/2 hour flight, so the plane was likely loaded with 8 1/2 or 9 hours worth of fuel. If that's the case, then with a cruise speed of 550mph, at least 3000 miles from the last known point.

[PilotMan]

It probably had enough fuel to fly to it's destination and at least another 45 min depending on the weather in China when it left. Any altitude changes would shorten that. So yeah, it's got a solid 7 hours of fuel. It can go a long, long way.

{edit: OOOH! LOOK AT THE BIG BRAIN ON CARTMAN! ;) }

[JediKooter]

You would think that an aircraft as fairly modern as the 777, would have a GPS tracking device on it. Or does it already have one?

[RainMaker]

I think, whoever was calling those numbers heard a 'ring', not that the passengers phones were actually really ringing. If I turn my cell phone off, if someone calls my number, they will hear still a 'ring'.

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

I do wonder if they could track the GPS of a phone. Depending on how catastrophic the crash was, a phone or two could have survived inside a suitcase or something. Even if the battery has died, perhaps they could have traced it's last known ping?

[JediKooter]

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

I do wonder if they could track the GPS of a phone. Depending on how catastrophic the crash was, a phone or two could have survived inside a suitcase or something. Even if the battery has died, perhaps they could have traced it's last known ping?

Maybe their cellular network is set up a bit different than ours here in North America?

Yes, you would think at least one phone would have been able to be tracked to a certain degree, given that you know not everyone complies with turning off their phones and putting them into airplane mode.

I understand that the ocean is huge and deep, but, I just find it amazing that in the second decade of the 21st century, it's still freaking hard to find a modern aircraft given all the technology that is available. Reading about this, you would think Glenn Miller was on that flight.

[cartman]

I've found that when someone is roaming, often times that the phone will 'ring' while it is trying to locate them. I think that is why they were getting the rings when dialing from China, but not when they were dialing from Malaysia.

[DaddyTorgo]

I understand that the ocean is huge and deep, but, I just find it amazing that in the second decade of the 21st century, it's still freaking hard to find a modern aircraft given all the technology that is available.

Me too.

[PilotMan]

I think a lot of people underestimate the actual size of the ocean and land. I did CAP in high school. We would do practice search and rescues and some of them could be downright difficult, and this was wide open ND. The ocean is an entirely different animal and every day it gets exponentially harder.

The ELT should have been installed on the plane and it should have gone off in any accident. No ELT either means it was not installed, not functional or the plane didn't crash. It's something that doesn't depend on doing anything at all. So not having it here is a bit of a mystery.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think a lot of people underestimate the actual size of the ocean and land. I did CAP in high school. We would do practice search and rescues and some of them could be downright difficult, and this was wide open ND. The ocean is an entirely different animal and every day it gets exponentially harder.

The ELT should have been installed on the plane and it should have gone off in any accident. No ELT either means it was not installed, not functional or the plane didn't crash. It's something that doesn't depend on doing anything at all. So not having it here is a bit of a mystery.

Who made you the expert on all things flying??

Oh wait...;)

[Neon_Chaos]

Who made you the expert on all things flying??

Oh wait...;)

The nerve. You'd think he was a pilot or something!

[DaddyTorgo]

The nerve. You'd think he was a pilot or something!

I know, right?

[sterlingice]

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever fly a flight with this guy, but it seems like he's thought an awful lot about how to make a plane "disappear", if you know what I mean

SI

[cartman]

This is the only other recent story I'm aware of where a large jet has disappeared. They still haven't found this one.

History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-727-that-vanished-2371187/)

[cartman]

Vietnam has now said they are suspending searches until Malaysia can clarify the scope of the search.

[JediKooter]

Sounds like there's a few factors in not being able to locate the airliner and one of those factors reeks of incompetence.

[cartman]

The Guardian has been doing a pretty good job of doing running updates on the situation. It has been where I've been getting my updates from over the past couple of days.

MH370 search goes on amid confusion over plane's disappearance – live | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/12/mh370-search-continues-amid-confusion)

[JediKooter]

Good link cartman.

[bhlloy]

Almost seems like the Malaysian government/air force is covering something up at this point. I can think of one thing an air force would want to cover up that seems way too far fetched, but there is precedent for this kind of thing - I was shocked at how many shoot down or near shoot down incidents there have been over the years

[JediKooter]

Almost seems like the Malaysian government/air force is covering something up at this point. I can think of one thing an air force would want to cover up that seems way too far fetched, but there is precedent for this kind of thing - I was shocked at how many shoot down or near shoot down incidents there have been over the years

Would explain why they heard nothing from the pilots.

[Butter]

I always thought it would go straight to voicemail if someone's phone was off?

No. The number will ring some, then go to VM even if the phone is underwater.

Source: My son lost his phone, we called and called it to try and locate, it kept ringing and then going to VM. Come to find out, he had put it through the washer and it was dead.

[bryce]

Sounds like there's a few factors in not being able to locate the airliner and one of those factors reeks of incompetence.

And / or politics...

[Mike Lowe]

Any good TV coverage of this? CNN won't stop talking about this NYC gas leak. #boring.

[Logan]

Any good TV coverage of this? CNN won't stop talking about this NYC gas leak. #boring.

Nice sensitivity with two confirmed dead already and a lot of people unaccounted for.

[Matthean]

Oil Rig Worker: 'I Saw the Malaysia Airlines Plane Come Down' (http://mashable.com/2014/03/12/malaysia-airlines-370-search-area/)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty good timeline if anyone wants to get regular updates.

Malaysia government warns hunt for missing plane 'could take months' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10687223/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-plane-crash-live.html)

[JediKooter]

And / or politics...

Oh yes, that too for sure. Though sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between politics and incompetence. :)

[Mike Lowe]

Nice sensitivity with two confirmed dead already and a lot of people unaccounted for.

If it wasn't in NYC and included building collapses, it wouldn't be on. Talk to CNN about sensitivity! :)

[cartman]

The Chinese have located some satellite images that look interesting. From The Guardian thread:

Malaysia airliner: China releases satellite images of possible crash site – live | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/12/mh370-search-extended-into-andaman-sea-live-updates)

[Mike Lowe]

Seems promising...if there is such a use of the word in all of this :/

It was awful seeing the frustrated families...I'm not sure how I'd deal with it, but man...that was terrible to watch. I guess they just want to know for sure that no one's out floating on a wreckage raft or something.

[cartman]

I don't think China would make anything public if they weren't certain that the info was useful. Malaysia has provided a perfect example of how not to conduct an operation such as this.

[cartman]

The sun is now up in KL. Should find out within the next few hours if there is anything in the pics from the Chinese satellites.

MH370: Satellite images show possible crash debris in South China sea – live | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/mh370-satellite-images-show-possible-crash-debris-in-south-china-sea-live)

[bbgunn]

Just want to say that this thread is by far one of the most civil on the subject that I've come across on the Internet.

On a personal level, I was actually vacationing in Kuala Lumpur when MH370 went missing, and we were scheduled to fly out of the same airport the very next morning (although on a different airline). Let me tell you: it is really difficult to get on an airplane and fly out of the same airport, and fly almost the same route (KL-Osaka - a little more east than Beijing), the day after something like that happens, and not feel uneasy about it. When we flew over the search area, I had to force myself to take a nap. I was extremely relieved once I made it back to Japan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Glad to hear you're alright bbgunn!

[cartman]

The US 7th fleet has said that the Chinese satellite pictures aren't going to cause them to change their search area. Not sure if that means they've already gone over that area, or they have other info they are going on.

[cartman]

And now it is looking like the Chinese satellite pics aren't of the plane.

[bbgunn]

Glad to hear you're alright bbgunn!
Thank you!

And now it is looking like the Chinese satellite pics aren't of the plane.
Wow, what a mystery this is turning out to be.

[cartman]

Wow, what a mystery this is turning out to be.

Definitely. There are over a dozen counties involved in the search. The land is in a area that is among the most densely populated regions on the planet, and the waters are among the busiest shipping channels. Nearly 100,000 square kilometers have been searched, and nothing yet has been seen. Officially the last thing known was the location when the transponder stopped transmitting on Saturday. Pieces of the Air France plane had been found floating in the middle of the Atlantic by this time of their search.

[RainMaker]

The Malaysian government is not looking good throughout this.

[FLC28]

It took them days to find the Air France flight....

While it did take them years to locate the black box, debris were found within 24 hours by the Brazilian Air Force. :)

Now of course they had the benefit of knowing in which area to look, something which doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Alan T]

I am pretty sure they know where to look... somewhere in this map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Southeast_Asia_(orthographic_projection).svg/550px-Southeast_Asia_(orthographic_projection).svg.png

[Qwikshot]

While it did take them years to locate the black box, debris were found within 24 hours by the Brazilian Air Force. :)

Now of course they had the benefit of knowing in which area to look, something which doesn't seem to be the case here.

That being said, the Air France flight had data which showed something catastrophic occurred.

This event makes no sense in many ways.

[JPhillips]

From the Wall Street Journal:

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

[Mike Lowe]

This is seriously unbelievable. Part of me wonders if there's a REMOTE REMOTE REMOTE chance that the plane was taken "off-line" (for lack of a better term) and flown to a remote location to hold the passengers as ransom?

I'm 99.2% that is dead wrong, but damn...how does a plane just disappear?! I mean, if they had it flying on radar just in a straight line or whatever before a crash, we could say that maybe it's like the Payne Stewart flight that lost pressure or whatever.

Ugh, I just hope whatever this is is over soon for those families. This must be worth than dealing with the actual death(s).

[CraigSca]

From the Wall Street Journal:
U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

To me, this sounds like a hijacking gone wrong. Not unlike Ethiopean Airlines Flight 961.

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961)

[cartman]

The US now is saying they have info pointing to a possible location in the Indian Ocean.

MH370: US confirms possible 'new search area' in Indian Ocean – live | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/13/mh370-no-sign-of-debris-detected-by-chinese-satellite-live-updates)

[Desnudo]

To me, this sounds like a hijacking gone wrong. Not unlike Ethiopean Airlines Flight 961.

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961)

Damn that's a crazy story. I think today they would have been clubbed unconscious and duct taped to seats before they even reached the cockpit.

[dacman]

If the Indian Ocean thing is true I was thinking more along these lines.

Helios Airways Flight 522 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522)

[cartman]

So apparently Malaysian Airlines didn't subscribe to a particular satellite data service. But the plane still sent data to the satellite. That's where the new leads are coming from.

White House: Hunt for missing airliner may extend to Indian Ocean - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-satellite-spots-floating-objects/2014/03/13/72688034-aa68-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html)

[dzilla77]

The more I'm reading about this, the more I think this was a deliberate act and that this plane landed somewhere. If somehow they managed to put more fuel on this thing than people think it could be in the middle east.

[jeff061]

The more I'm reading about this, the more I think this was a deliberate act and that this plane landed somewhere. If somehow they managed to put more fuel on this thing than people think it could be in the middle east.
Not a new theory, I have a real hard time believing anyone could pull that off undetected.

[DaddyTorgo]

Occam's Razor - it's in the ocean somewhere.

[bhlloy]

Not a new theory, I have a real hard time believing anyone could pull that off undetected.

Same here, without knowing anything about it I'd have thought somebody in the middle east would notice an unauthorized jumbo on radar given the security concerns in that region. Surely the US and Israel are watching close enough. If we're talking places to hide a jet I'm guessing Vietnam would probably be pretty decent, but again how do you do it without showing up on someones radar?

If we're wildly speculating I still think the Malaysian govt has something to hide - they've all but admitted they tracked it on air force radar and then they backed off that statement. On top of that China is flat out accusing them of being unhelpful and evasive. Something doesn't smell right, maybe just incompetence I suppose.

[PilotMan]

Occam's Razor - it's in the ocean somewhere.

Yeah this is my thought too. I was looking at that globe and thought it was too small of an area. They need to look within 2500 miles of that last radar hit. Also I'm wondering if the US knows more then they are leading on. Some way to visually go back into satellite archives and look for anomalies. There is tech that is far greater than you or I know of.

If that radar hit heading west is accurate then that plane could very well be out in the middle of the Indian Ocean somewhere.

[BillJasper]

The more I'm reading about this, the more I think this was a deliberate act and that this plane landed somewhere. If somehow they managed to put more fuel on this thing than people think it could be in the middle east.

While I seriously doubt it, it would more likely be in North Korea under that scenario. Though I think it unlikely Kim Jong-Whogivesafuck could keep his mouth shut this long if they had pulled it off.

[stevew]

Sri Lanka certainly has a questionable history. Wonder if there were some rebel/insurgents there who plotted something.

Edit-
But their plan went awry and it's in the ocean.

[BillJasper]

Sri Lanka certainly has a questionable history. Wonder if there were some rebel/insurgents there who plotted something.

I guess my big stumbling block is: why take the plane and then stay so quiet about it? What would be the point?

[RainMaker]

The plane isn't sitting in some airfield. It would have been picked up on radar by someone. And if the goal is to steal a jumbo jet, there are probably much easier ways of doing it.

DT said it best, it's sitting in the Ocean somewhere. Maybe a suicide by pilot, maybe hijacking, maybe just something went horribly wrong mechanically. The Ocean is quite vast and incredibly difficult to find something as small as a plane.

[bhlloy]

Seems like the latest breaking news is all signs point to the Indian ocean, although there are a million questions about when things stopped transmitting and why, and still a ton of conflicting information.

[sterlingice]

Yeah this is my thought too. I was looking at that globe and thought it was too small of an area. They need to look within 2500 miles of that last radar hit. Also I'm wondering if the US knows more then they are leading on. Some way to visually go back into satellite archives and look for anomalies. There is tech that is far greater than you or I know of.

If that radar hit heading west is accurate then that plane could very well be out in the middle of the Indian Ocean somewhere.

It's not a situation where they have something to gain by revealing to the world our current gen capabilities: there's no strategic value. It won't be used even if there is something like that except to confirm what happened and that it's not a threat and then hushed up.

SI

[PilotMan]

It's not a situation where they have something to gain by revealing to the world our current gen capabilities: there's no strategic value. It won't be used even if there is something like that except to confirm what happened and that it's not a threat and then hushed up.

SI

See that's just what makes me wonder why the US came out and said that they think it flew for 4 hours after it left radar coverage. You're right, there isn't anything to gain by acknowledging that that kind of tech exists.

[JPhillips]

That apparently comes from satellite pings to a commercial satellite.

[Neon_Chaos]

Still hoping that somehow there are survivors and they're floating in a raft somewhere waiting to be rescued.

[sterlingice]

See that's just what makes me wonder why the US came out and said that they think it flew for 4 hours after it left radar coverage. You're right, there isn't anything to gain by acknowledging that that kind of tech exists.

I haven't been listening too closely but I didn't think there had been anything revealed that was from tech we didn't know about

SI

[PilotMan]

You're right SI. I've always had this thought that the extent of what is public knowledge is still pretty far behind where we actually are. Take the Snowden leaks for example. There is tech that is out there that surpasses what we know, but the question is what is the extent of it. It probably has nothing to do with this and isn't applicable. Hypothetically, could something exist, be used and passed off as something else?

[Easy Mac]

While I feel for the families, I do like the idea that there could still be a mystery on this scale that could never be solved in this day and age.

Plus, something has to keep Robert Stack's ghost employed.

[stevew]

It's Friday. I suspect if we actually have any real info it will come out this late afternoon so it gets swallowed by the news cycle.

[cartman]

This is a story about one of the Andaman Islands, the latest theory about the direction the plane was heading.

The North Sentinel Island : One of the most isolated and unwelcomed places on the Earth. (http://www.unbelievable-facts.com/2013/08/the-north-sentinel-island-one-of-most.html)

[Lathum]

This is a story about one of the Andaman Islands, the latest theory about the direction the plane was heading.

The North Sentinel Island : One of the most isolated and unwelcomed places on the Earth. (http://www.unbelievable-facts.com/2013/08/the-north-sentinel-island-one-of-most.html)

pretty cool stuff

the boat

North Sentinel Island - Google Maps (https://maps.google.com/maps?sll=7.402588288592448%2C64.34897217027977&sspn=2.389483684446311%2C5.030683125258942&t=h&ll=11.59349360000001%2C92.21290790000002&q=North+Sentinel+Island&spn=0.004000287572239236%2C0.005444809663525308&output=classic)

[Mike Lowe]

Wow, that's interesting. I know this is very tragic, but this is seriously like reading a GREAT book.

[Kodos]

The Island doesn't want you here!

[JediKooter]

This is a story about one of the Andaman Islands, the latest theory about the direction the plane was heading.

The North Sentinel Island : One of the most isolated and unwelcomed places on the Earth. (http://www.unbelievable-facts.com/2013/08/the-north-sentinel-island-one-of-most.html)

The NSA must really despise the Sentinelese...

[sterlingice]

The NSA must really despise the Sentinelese...

Or they really /are/ the Sentinelese! *cue dramatic sting*

SI

[sterlingice]

While I feel for the families, I do like the idea that there could still be a mystery on this scale that could never be solved in this day and age.

I feel guilty to admit it, but I feel the same way. If I knew any of those people or their families, I would feel really awful about this and in the abstract way we feel bad for people when something bad happens, I do. If it was a choice between "neat mystery" and "people home safe", I'd chose the latter.

But as it's not, I'm also fascinated by the mystery

SI

[sterlingice]

You're right SI. I've always had this thought that the extent of what is public knowledge is still pretty far behind where we actually are. Take the Snowden leaks for example. There is tech that is out there that surpasses what we know, but the question is what is the extent of it. It probably has nothing to do with this and isn't applicable. Hypothetically, could something exist, be used and passed off as something else?

What it really makes me think is that if there's something that is "10 years off", there's a good chance someone already has it if there's a use for it in the military. Technology moves unevenly so some things may be behind and others ahead. But time and again, when things are declassified, we see "futuristic technology" in use.

It makes me think that when you see a trade magazine that says "this will be common in the next 10 years", you can guess that if it can make money or make military sense, it's already here in some form either just in infancy and on the fast track or already fully developed but not industry standard yet.

SI

[JediKooter]

Or they really /are/ the Sentinelese! *cue dramatic sting*

SI

I like it!! I mean, no one has really ever seen a 'real' NSA employee and a Sentinelese in the same room...

[Buccaneer]

What it really makes me think is that if there's something that is "10 years off", there's a good chance someone already has it if there's a use for it in the military. Technology moves unevenly so some things may be behind and others ahead. But time and again, when things are declassified, we see "futuristic technology" in use.

It makes me think that when you see a trade magazine that says "this will be common in the next 10 years", you can guess that if it can make money or make military sense, it's already here in some form either just in infancy and on the fast track or already fully developed but not industry standard yet.

SI

Since part of my industry involves imagery data, I recall years ago there were publically promoting revolutionary 2m resolution. The military (as well as the same companies that were making available the 2m resolution) were privately snickering since they were already generating and using 0.5m accuracy (Now it's 0.5m for public by federal law but spy satellites go 0.3m).

[jbergey22]

I think the only obvious answer is that someone designed a time travel machine.

[vex]

I think the only obvious answer is that someone designed a time travel machine.

Went through a wormhole into an alternate dimension.

[JediKooter]

Went through a wormhole into an alternate dimension.

Sounds like someone needs to call Kris Kristofferson and Cheryl Tiegs.

[Alan T]

Sounds like someone needs to call Kris Kristofferson and Cheryl Tiegs.

I was just about to post that!

Millennium (1989) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=nv_sr_3)

[JediKooter]

I was just about to post that!

Millennium (1989) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=nv_sr_3)

Nice! Do you know how many years I have been waiting to use that reference?

[AnalBumCover]

Nice! Do you know how many years I have been waiting to use that reference?

I'll take a guess. 14?

[Kodos]

24?

[JediKooter]

You both are correct.

[Sun Tzu]

Somehow, someway, I'm pretty sure these guys are involved.

http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/lost_tv_show_dharma-t2.jpg

[stevew]

I was just about to post that!

Millennium (1989) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097883/?ref_=nv_sr_3)

I was thinking about that movie where the aircraft carrier accidentally entered a time warp and they were going to try to stop pearl harbor at the end but they didn't.

What is this movie called.

[stevew]

Okay, I did some weird non-googling brain shit and deduced it was called The Final Countdown.
The Final Countdown (1980) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

[Chief Rum]

I was thinking about that movie where the aircraft carrier accidentally entered a time warp and they were going to try to stop pearl harbor at the end but they didn't.

What is this movie called.

It was the Final Countdown.

[PilotMan]

The more I read about this the more it sounds like a pilot action, or someone who took the cockpit who knew enough about the plane, like MS flight sim, knowledge to fly it before you crash it.

Log In - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?smid=tw-bna)

SEPANG, Malaysia — Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 experienced significant changes in altitude after it lost contact with ground control, and altered its course more than once as if still under the command of a pilot, American officials and others familiar with the investigation said Friday.


Radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appear to show the missing airliner climbing to 45,000 feet, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar and made a sharp turn to the west, according to a preliminary assessment by a person familiar with the data.

[Edward64]

Occam's Razor - it's in the ocean somewhere.

My guess is hijacking gone wrong or Pilot suicide. In the ocean. Feds scouring passengers and air crew for suspects or motive.

[DaddyTorgo]

It was the Final Countdown.

Yup. Quality 80's flick.

[mckerney]

Malaysian: Investigators conclude flight hijacked - Asia news - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/2014/03/14/vietnam-downgrades-search-for-missing-jet/bHIz1HdDbC4G54y0J1yVRI/story.html)

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — A Malaysian government official says investigators have concluded that one of the pilots or someone else with flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet.

The official, who is involved in the investigation, says no motive has been established, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media.

The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory. ‘‘It is conclusive.’’

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe hijacked by one of the guys on false passports who was looking for political asylum?

[PilotMan]

It's interesting that this is being floated with no more information being released than what we already knew. The US was the first to postulate this theory that the plane went over the Indian Ocean, the first to let information be passed about the equipment on the plane. Mind you, that information came from Boeing, which was pressed by the US for the information.

I find it curious that now, all of a sudden, after discounting some of this information for the last couple of days, that now they are wholesale going with it, and saying that the information is conclusive.

It's totally in agreement with what I've been saying all along. I just want to know what else they have that makes it totally conclusive. Because nothing that I've read confirms anything.

[JediKooter]

Ok, so what I want to know is, why in the world are pilots or anyone for the matter, allowed to turn off the transponders? Seems like that is something that should always be on and unable to be tampered with.

[PilotMan]

They have to be turned on and off manually. Pilots have to put the unique code in from ATC for them to track the plane correctly. The only time the transponders are on are when the aircraft is moving, from push back to parking. It's just not practical for them to be on all the time. But to answer you, they are required for us, but it's a piece of equipment that is powered that we have to be able to manage in the event of an emergency. I mean it's not like we don't have enough stuff to play with up there. Turning off the transponder is pretty minimal.

[MacroGuru]

Anyone else like having a Pilot on this board!

Between EF27, Dr. Sak, Pilot and several others on this board I love this shit we hear about different industries and careers.

[JediKooter]

They have to be turned on and off manually. Pilots have to put the unique code in from ATC for them to track the plane correctly. The only time the transponders are on are when the aircraft is moving, from push back to parking. It's just not practical for them to be on all the time. But to answer you, they are required for us, but it's a piece of equipment that is powered that we have to be able to manage in the event of an emergency. I mean it's not like we don't have enough stuff to play with up there. Turning off the transponder is pretty minimal.

That makes sense, I can definitely see not having it on if the aircraft isn't going anywhere or is being serviced, etc... So is there a possibility that in case of an emergency, the transponder could cause additional problems to the electrical system and that's why a pilot needs to be able to shut it off during flight? It just seems (to me) that would be one thing you wouldn't want anyone to be able to tamper with, especially in the rare cases like Flight 370. I'm sure it would add more costs if it was its own autonomous system though.

[PilotMan]

Honestly JK, not really. I mean when they quit they usually just quit working and don't cause problems. Typically anything powered has the potential for a fire. That's all I was getting at.

The only time they get switched off is changing transponder codes so ATC doesn't accidently have 2 on the same code, and that's just while you are switching. It goes right back on with the new code. Or there are a couple airports when you are landing side by side where you are instructed (by the company) to downgrade the collision avoidance provided you have sufficient visuals on the other plane to avoid having to do a go around due to the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, which is closely integrated with the transponder.

As with anything there are rules regarding everything. Transponders aren't required in large chunks of airspace. They are in any controlled airspace or on an instrument flight plan like all commercial airliners are. But you could take your Cessna up from your farm in North Dakota and fly all over the place never making a radio call and never turning the transponder on and you'd be legal, maybe not smart, but legal.

Keep in mind that if it's automated that it's another thing that could potentially break. Airplanes are more reliable with people being able to manage certain things. If something like that "could" break it inevitably would and that's just one more thing to cost money and delays down the road. It's much easier for a person to simply turn it on and manage it.

[sterlingice]

Anyone else like having a Pilot on this board!

Between EF27, Dr. Sak, Pilot and several others on this board I love this shit we hear about different industries and careers.

Don't forget lungs :D

SI

[MacroGuru]

Don't forget lungs :D

SI

He was one of the names I couldn't think of when I made that post, hence the several others.

[JediKooter]

Honestly JK, not really. I mean when they quit they usually just quit working and don't cause problems. Typically anything powered has the potential for a fire. That's all I was getting at.

The only time they get switched off is changing transponder codes so ATC doesn't accidently have 2 on the same code, and that's just while you are switching. It goes right back on with the new code. Or there are a couple airports when you are landing side by side where you are instructed (by the company) to downgrade the collision avoidance provided you have sufficient visuals on the other plane to avoid having to do a go around due to the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, which is closely integrated with the transponder.

As with anything there are rules regarding everything. Transponders aren't required in large chunks of airspace. They are in any controlled airspace or on an instrument flight plan like all commercial airliners are. But you could take your Cessna up from your farm in North Dakota and fly all over the place never making a radio call and never turning the transponder on and you'd be legal, maybe not smart, but legal.

Keep in mind that if it's automated that it's another thing that could potentially break. Airplanes are more reliable with people being able to manage certain things. If something like that "could" break it inevitably would and that's just one more thing to cost money and delays down the road. It's much easier for a person to simply turn it on and manage it.

Thank you sir! Yes, that's what I was trying to say, I was just stuck on the electrical system for some reason and didn't quite know how to say it.

That's very interesting, I always thought aircraft had their own unique code and didn't know that it was changed depending on certain things. I can see where some not so nice people with the knowledge could use this to their advantage.

Indeed, like a lot of things, if it can break, it will and it will cost money and time even if it was on its own system. Thanks again PilotMan, always nice to learn something new!

[Ryan S]

Speaking as someone who has traveled on 777s fairly regularly, I am glad that this incident appears to have been the result of deliberate action rather than a catastrophic failure. An unexplained accident for one of the safest planes in the sky would not have been good news.

[CU Tiger]

Boeing 777-300 (http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html)

Ok..this is wrong but made me laugh

[terpkristin]

In related news, Inmarsat released an announcement that one of their satellites had picked up some of the "routine signals" from the flight. Seems weird for this to post this as a release.

Inmarsat statement on Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 - Inmarsat (http://www.inmarsat.com/news/inmarsat-statement-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/)

/tk

[Desnudo]

Flight 370 disappearance: Why I think the missing airliner could be in Central Asia. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/03/15/flight_370_disappearance_why_i_think_the_missing_airliner_could_be_in_central.html)

[Qrusher14242]

I heard the 'pings' they got from the plane could of been from on the ground. So they could of landed before that last one at 8am. I don't know where or why though.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Boeing 777-300 (http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html)

Ok..this is wrong but made me laugh

I got a chuckle in too

[Matthean]

"And then the plane went 'Swoosh' through the air."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BisCutwCQAAVAzU.png:large

[BillJasper]

"And then the plane went 'Swoosh' through the air."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BisCutwCQAAVAzU.png:large

I'd say the press is embarrassing itself. But what does it matter? Most Americans are too stupid to realize it.

[Zinto]

Courtney Love thinks she's found Malaysia Airlines flight 370 (http://www.avclub.com/article/courtney-love-thinks-shes-found-malaysia-airlines--202286)

Don't worry Courtney Love is scanning satellite images for us.

[stevew]

At least nobody on this forum has suggested that the plane simply flew into space and everyone died.

[PilotMan]

This is a pretty good one.

Russia “Puzzled� Over Malaysia Airlines #MH370 “Capture� By US Navy #prayformh370 | .::Pisau.Net::. (http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/)

A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU) states that Aerospace Defence Forces (VKO) experts remain “puzzled” as to why the United States Navy “captured and then diverted” a Malaysia Airlines civilian aircraft from its intended flight-path to their vast and highly-secretive Indian Ocean base located on the Diego Garcia atoll.

[CraigSca]

This is a pretty good one.

Russia “Puzzled� Over Malaysia Airlines #MH370 “Capture� By US Navy #prayformh370 | .::Pisau.Net::. (http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/)

Because we CAN.

[JediKooter]

Silly Soviets. When will they learn?

[mckerney]

I'd say the press is embarrassing itself. But what does it matter? Most Americans are too stupid to realize it.

Cut them some slack, it's really hard (http://www.praguepost.com/viewpoint/37518-msnbc-puts-czechoslovakia-back-on-map) to report on things (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCQwRChSayI) that happen outside of America (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sqWeKPRCKw)

[Suicane75]

Courtney Love thinks she's found Malaysia Airlines flight 370 (http://www.avclub.com/article/courtney-love-thinks-shes-found-malaysia-airlines--202286)

Don't worry Courtney Love is scanning satellite images for us.

I think it's more impressive that someone found Courtney Love.

[NobodyHere]

Cut them some slack, it's really hard (http://www.praguepost.com/viewpoint/37518-msnbc-puts-czechoslovakia-back-on-map) to report on things (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCQwRChSayI) that happen outside of America (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sqWeKPRCKw)

You forgot this one (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/31/fox-news-cant-find-egypt-map_n_816540.html)

[Blackadar]

Courtney Love thinks she's found Malaysia Airlines flight 370 (http://www.avclub.com/article/courtney-love-thinks-shes-found-malaysia-airlines--202286)

Don't worry Courtney Love is scanning satellite images for us.

You could probably hide one in her crotch.

[Neon_Chaos]

This has been making rounds on Facebook. Plausible?

A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)

[Kodos]

You could probably hide one in her crotch.

This has been making rounds on Facebook. Plausible?



:)

[PilotMan]

Much more plausible than a lot of the other crap that has been postulated.

[cartman]

I read that, but to me, if they were incapacitated, then why did the plane continue to follow waypoints? If the plane was flying without anyone at the controls, then it doesn't seem likely that random changes in course would follow the waypoints, as the radar seems to suggest. And if the crew were fighting a fire, it doesn't seem likely that they would be reprogramming the flight control system with a series of waypoints far from their planned route.

[BillJasper]

This has been making rounds on Facebook. Plausible?

A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)

An interesting hypothesis.

[Eaglesfan27]

I read that, but to me, if they were incapacitated, then why did the plane continue to follow waypoints? If the plane was flying without anyone at the controls, then it doesn't seem likely that random changes in course would follow the waypoints, as the radar seems to suggest. And if the crew were fighting a fire, it doesn't seem likely that they would be reprogramming the flight control system with a series of waypoints far from their planned route.

Yeah, I read the theory and then I read the waypoints were entered in. I don't see how a fire would explain taking the time to put in multiple way points.

[PilotMan]

I don't think that they know how many waypoints were loaded in and I don't know enough about the waypoints in that area to know where exactly they were pointed.

You have to put a waypoint into the FMS in order for the autopilot to fly there. In the case of an emergency one of the first things that would happen would be point the plane somewhere safer and go there.

The thing that I also think that people are missing is that the "north" and "south" tracks look like flight paths but they aren't. It simply a non directional point where the plane was a 8a when they got the last ping.

What route it took to get there is irrelevant. All we know is where it was last time it pinged in Malaysia and where it may have pinged a few hours later. Who knows what happened in the middle.

It's certainly possible that the plane just flew along a route far off into the Indian Ocean after the crew was incapacitated. If the autopilot runs out of waypoints to follow it will just continue on that same heading forever.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hey PM - I have a random question for you.

I have a friend who I was talking to this weekend. She was curious (and has no social filter, so apologies for the nature of the question).

All other things being equal (weather conditions, assuming you weren't in the middle of the ocean but would be rescued right away, no landing gear, etc.), would it be easier to make a "non-powered descent"/attempt a controlled-crash onto water or land?

[DaddyTorgo]

This has been making rounds on Facebook. Plausible?

A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)

Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.

[Blackadar]

Hey PM - I have a random question for you.

I have a friend who I was talking to this weekend. She was curious (and has no social filter, so apologies for the nature of the question).

All other things being equal (weather conditions, assuming you weren't in the middle of the ocean but would be rescued right away, no landing gear, etc.), would it be easier to make a "non-powered descent"/attempt a controlled-crash onto water or land?

For me, it would be both terrain- and weather-dependent. I'd much rather try to dead-stick something into water than over mountains in fog or in a dense forest. At the same time, even in high winds I'd much rather come down in the middle of a relatively flat cornfield with the landing gear extended than deal with wind-driven waves and risk catching a wing on a water landing. But then again I don't have nearly the experience of PilotMan, so his answer may very well be different.

[Julio Riddols]

If that is really what went down, wow. I wonder how long the passengers had to deal with their inevitable death before it finally came.

[DaddyTorgo]

For me, it would be both terrain- and weather-dependent. I'd much rather try to dead-stick something into water than over mountains in fog or in a dense forest. At the same time, even in high winds I'd much rather come down in the middle of a relatively flat cornfield with the landing gear extended than deal with wind-driven waves and risk catching a wing on a water landing. But then again I don't have nearly the experience of PilotMan, so his answer may very well be different.

Yeah. My friend is a little bit...well..."odd" is being kind, but I told her I'd ask.

[PilotMan]

So if I'm correct then you are asking which is easier? To make a landing on land or water all other things being equal?

Ok, the best place for me to land is where I can control the decent and the touchdown the best. In the case of Sully where he had the option to return to LGA, go to TEB or take the river, he chose the river. He didn't think he could make LGA, had never been to TEB and didn't know exactly where it was, and knew that there were tons of things to hit everywhere and that he was going down.

He looked at the river and was able to rectify all the options into "the river looks like my best option."

Like Blackadar said, I'd rather have a big field than try and put it in the water. If Sully had a different airplane the results might have been very different. Those big engines under the wing really worked to stabilize the plane once it hit the water. A plane with the engines at the back would most certainly caught a wing tip and started spinning. That would have been a much uglier landing. But put that same situation on a land and it would have been just reversed. With Sully's Airbus having a more challenging landing (belly landing) on land than the other plane.

Blackadar had a nice answer, I guess mine is pretty much the same. There are always different things to consider that have to be decided in a split second. That's why pilots are constantly thinking of where they will go if the shit hits the fan. That goes for all pilots from private pilots all the way up to ATP-rated pilots like I am.

Sorry this got so long winded. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

So if I'm correct then you are asking which is easier? To make a landing on land or water all other things being equal?

Ok, the best place for me to land is where I can control the decent and the touchdown the best. In the case of Sully where he had the option to return to LGA, go to TEB or take the river, he chose the river. He didn't think he could make LGA, had never been to TEB and didn't know exactly where it was, and knew that there were tons of things to hit everywhere and that he was going down.

He looked at the river and was able to rectify all the options into "the river looks like my best option."

Like Blackadar said, I'd rather have a big field than try and put it in the water. If Sully had a different airplane the results might have been very different. Those big engines under the wing really worked to stabilize the plane once it hit the water. A plane with the engines at the back would most certainly caught a wing tip and started spinning. That would have been a much uglier landing. But put that same situation on a land and it would have been just reversed. With Sully's Airbus having a more challenging landing (belly landing) on land than the other plane.

Blackadar had a nice answer, I guess mine is pretty much the same. There are always different things to consider that have to be decided in a split second. That's why pilots are constantly thinking of where they will go if the shit hits the fan. That goes for all pilots from private pilots all the way up to ATP-rated pilots like I am.

Sorry this got so long winded. :)

Well played. Makes sense to me. Thanks!!

[dzilla77]

If the pilots pointed the aircraft at that airport, became incapacitated and the plane flew itself into the ocean when it ran out of fuel, would that airport have picked it up on radar?

The problem with this whole situation is that with such few facts, almost anything is plausible.

[Edward64]

If the pilots had time to change flight, wouldn't they have declared an emergency?

[PilotMan]

If the pilots pointed the aircraft at that airport, became incapacitated and the plane flew itself into the ocean when it ran out of fuel, would that airport have picked it up on radar?

The problem with this whole situation is that with such few facts, almost anything is plausible.

You're right. there are no real answers. I'm not saying that this theory is worth spending time on, but it is at least more plausible than governments with the power to vaporize a 777 or aliens. The radar at the at airport might not be able to find planes outside its airspace, which may only be 10 miles. Or it may not have any radar. Many airports do not. I have no idea about this one. The controller would have had some coverage, but when they switched off the transponder they were between stations. They had left one controller and hadn't showed up on the next one yet. That makes the timing of it all really suspect and points to the pilots. They pilots would have had and had access to charts that would have shown them the approximate areas of radar and airspace ownership in the area. That's another reason to suspect the pilots.

If the pilots had time to change flight, wouldn't they have declared an emergency?

Generally yes, but I can make an argument that something big and serious would make that not the case. For one it's the middle of the night. At altitude it's nearly pitch black and there are no visual references. You have moving map with points and that's where you start.

Now you have an emergency that spirals out of control rather quickly. It's not hard to get task saturated in the cockpit if there are a lot of things going on. It's not hard to become so involved running checklists and trying to communicate with the other pilot or even the cabin that you stop everything else. In aviation we have a phrase that you hear from the earliest training. It's "aviate, navigate, communicate." It means fly the plane first and foremost, maintain control. Next, get somewhere. Know where you are, where you are going and where you want to go. Last tell someone.

If you can't do #1 and #2 you'll never get to #3.

Now how does it look with the current crew? The Captain was massively experienced. This was his career and from what we know he was an aviation enthusiast. Chances are, depending on how much time he had in the plane, that there wouldn't have been much that would have gotten him excited and that he could have managed pretty much anything.

The FO was very green by aviation standards. His flight time would be considered pretty low, and pretty low for this type of plane among US pilots. My guess is that he probably had only been a commercial pilot for about 4 years. Plus his age, being young, makes it possible that he is more emotional, impetuous and more of an unknown.

I think that the weirdness that surrounds this is more likely to point to the FO than to the Captain. Time will tell I guess. I do think that a theory of the FO incapacitating the Captain and then taking control of the plane is plausible. I haven't heard anything in the reports that makes me think that 1 pilot with his experience (assuming at least 2-3 years) in the plane, couldn't pull it off.

But that's all we have right now. Lot's of plausible theories and no real answers or really any other facts to go off of. I have a friend who flies out in that area and he thinks it crashed in the jungle somewhere. The jungle is thick enough to conceal it and seriously underpopulated. Personally I still think it's out in the middle of the Indian Ocean somewhere. With currents and time I don't even know how much would be left to find.

[PilotMan]

dola

Here is an interesting read about some things that are at play here that you may or may not be aware of. Pointing the finger at the airline and the country itself as to why we don't know more about this than we do.

Malaysia Flight 370: What Didn’t Happen. | JetHead's Blog (http://jethead.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/malaysia-flight-370-what-didnt-happen/)

And actually in regard to the cruise industry. The US used to have a shipping and cruise industry but the government allowed companies to register ships in foreign countries and continue to operate here. That undermined the safety programs and the US businesses that had previously operated.

Well you may have heard about a small company called Norwegian Air that is trying to do just that in the US recently. Basically this company is a new offshoot that is going to use US loopholes to get financing and tax breaks to lease 787's from Boeing. They are going to operate the planes out of Ireland to the US. Ireland has literally no aviation regulation compared to the US. Then the company is going to contract out the pilots to a company that hires out of Malaysia. They would do this at a fraction of the cost of current airlines but bypass our whole aviation setup and create a very unfair and uneven playing field for the current legacy carriers in the US. We are trying to fight this "Franken-airline" from being allowed to operate, but it's an uphill climb.

http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/deptpages/govtaffairs/issues/nai/NAIgraphic-top.gif

You can help by supporting this petition and send a message to our lawmakers that such a thing puts not only the passengers of the US at risk but also the livelihood of one of the most important industries as well.

#denyNAI | Tell Obama to deny Norwegian Air Shuttle's application to fly into the US (http://www.takeaction.alpa.org/)

[cartman]

How would they be much different than Aer Lingus, which is another low cost long haul airline based out of Ireland? If they get FAR 129 designation, would also they then have to adhere to FAR 121 regs?

[cartman]

The Aussies might have found something in their search zone.

MH370: two objects may have been found in Australian search zone - live | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/20/mh370-two-possible-objects-may-have-been-found-in-australian-search-zone)

[PilotMan]

How would they be much different than Aer Lingus, which is another low cost long haul airline based out of Ireland? If they get FAR 129 designation, would also they then have to adhere to FAR 121 regs?

Well for one, Lingus actually operates out of Ireland, which this airline doesn't have any plans on that. They only want to be registered there. Lingus uses their own pilots, that work for the company. This company won't do that either. They are going to contract the pilots through a third party to fly their planes. These pilots are based in southeast Asia as contract pilots. And would be subject to the training requirements and regulations of that area. It's a big deal because it's not the way that this kind of business was designed to operate.

I don't have a fast answer for you on the part question. Sorry.

[mckerney]

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge (http://theverge.com/2014/3/20/5529168/malaysia-plane-black-hole-twilight-zone-lost-cnn-asks)

No, bad. Bad CNN!

[sterlingice]

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge (http://theverge.com/2014/3/20/5529168/malaysia-plane-black-hole-twilight-zone-lost-cnn-asks)

No, bad. Bad CNN!

Was it caused by the Illuminati using the Large Hadron Collider?

SI

[PilotMan]

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane | The Verge (http://theverge.com/2014/3/20/5529168/malaysia-plane-black-hole-twilight-zone-lost-cnn-asks)

No, bad. Bad CNN!

Too late, they had some woman on there today taking apart a plastic model trying to show how planes break apart.

1. She was an idiot.
2. It was in very poor taste.

[JediKooter]

So CNN has become part of the History Channel.

[stevew]

How many barges would be required to make a makeshift runway? I believe they are roughly 200' by 35'. Runway length required is supposedly 8k feet roughly. If you wanted to just bellyflop the plane, would 10(1000' by 70') be enough? Surely towed barges disappear all the time. You sink the barges and the plane and capture all the crew/passengers. I know this didn't happen but could it happen?

[CU Tiger]

http://www.nc4x4.com/forum/index.php?attachments/1939986_369037199903720_1592941844_n-jpg.149817/

[EagleFan]

Yes, this is just wrong...

[Sun Tzu]

Pff. I was making "LOST" jokes two pages ago.

[Desnudo]

How many barges would be required to make a makeshift runway? I believe they are roughly 200' by 35'. Runway length required is supposedly 8k feet roughly. If you wanted to just bellyflop the plane, would 10(1000' by 70') be enough? Surely towed barges disappear all the time. You sink the barges and the plane and capture all the crew/passengers. I know this didn't happen but could it happen?

200 hectarbarges to the liter

[Edward64]

I feel so sad for the relatives. Ups, downs, false leads, unknowns, endless speculations etc.

China has new images showing large object in southern Indian Ocean - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/22/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (CNN) -- China announced that it has satellite images of a large object floating in the search area for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, but Australian-led search teams found no sign of it Saturday.

Another day of intense searches by air and sea concluded for the night with no new clues to give families answers about the fate of the passengers and crew.

I'm all for this.

Flyht: The $100,000 live-streaming black box - Mar. 21, 2014 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/technology/flyht-flight-data-streaming-black-box/)
When Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared two weeks ago, evidence about what went wrong vanished with it. Any answers are likely trapped in the flight data recorder.

But in a time when we stream Netflix (NFLX) on our laptops, get music instantly on our phones, and use Wi-Fi on our airplanes, why can't we get that data in real time?

The technology already exists.

Canadian company Flyht Aerospace Solutions makes the Automated Flight Information System, or AFIRS, which automatically monitors data such as location, altitude, and performance.
:
:
On a normal flight, the system would send updates every five to 10 minutes. It can be programmed to recognize when something is wrong, such as a deviation in flight path, and automatically begin streaming second-by-second data.

[Buccaneer]

I guess I got too spoiled by fictional accounts of satellites being closer to real-time instead of a lag of multiple days.

[kcchief19]

I'm sure they are real-time, but I'm assuming satellite images are getting scanned by the military of their respective countries first and scrubbed for any information they don't want anyone else to know, then they start looking for the plane.

[cartman]

Sounds like the officials have acknowledged that the plane has indeed crashed in the Indian Ocean. They have informed the relatives of this.

MH370 assumed to have crashed with no survivors, says Malaysia Airlines - live updates | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates)

[Draft Dodger]

probably true...but man the Malaysian officials seem to be about as reliable as this guy

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

[Buccaneer]

I would be curious as to what was the analysis the British satellite did.

[PilotMan]

The interesting news to me now is that the government is now going back on the information that the FMS was reprogrammed prior to the last radio transmission.

What this means to me is that it seems much more plausible that an event occurred that incapacitated the crew and the plane just few off into the ocean until it ran out of fuel.

[Draft Dodger]

so, if I understand correctly, we're back to something along the lines of

pilots sign off with Malaysia
something bad happens
pilots turn back towards the nearest airport
bad thing incapacitates the crew and plane goes until it runs out of fuel?

[PilotMan]

Not saying that's what happened, but it makes that a more plausible event.

Pilots sign off
Event happens
they troubleshoot
Make a turn toward an airport
more trouble shooting
make another turn (because where they are looking that plane would have had to turn more than once.)
crew incapacitated
plane flies on until it runs out of fuel.

So what might cause this?

Fires.
Fires can lead to a whole mess of trouble. Including depressurization, smoke, structural.
There has already been a mention of Li-ion batteries. The plane has a good fire suppression system. Much different than what brought the UPS 747 down in Dubai (I had known the FO on that plane from when we were both students and instructors in Florida.) That plane didn't have really any fire suppression in the main cabin. Still even with that Li-ion batteries can be nasty and could certainly be a finger to point at.

General depressurization
Yes there is lots of oxygen and generators and warning systems too. So this shouldn't have been the main issue. Payne Stewart's plane crashed because the cabin altitude alerter was broken. That probably didn't happen here.

I still think that the pilots are the primary focus since they have all the responsibility and controls and are still the most simple explanation.

[cartman]

What I don't get is if the FMS wasn't changed, and there was an event that incapacitated the crew, I don't see how the plane would continue flying at a consistent altitude and path with no one at the controls and the auto-pilot off for several hours.

[PilotMan]

What I don't get is if the FMS wasn't changed, and there was an event that incapacitated the crew, I don't see how the plane would continue flying at a consistent altitude and path with no one at the controls and the auto-pilot off for several hours.

We were saying earlier that if it had been reprogrammed prior to the hand-off that would change everything. It would suggest prior intent to act on something. If they back off of that now it brings the idea of an emergency back into the fold.

The FMS was absolutely changed. But the timing of it is now in question. The points can be pre-programmed at any time. In an emergency you would set up the plane to fly where you wanted it to go while to paid attention to other things. Remember a pilot's priority is to fly the plane, then navigate, then communicate. Sometimes #1 and #2 are all you can do and you never get to #3. It does happen though, we do it in the sim quite a bit.

Say the plane get's all set up and you are trying to fix the emergency and are suddenly incapacitated. The plane will fly its last heading/power setting forever. They had a lot of fuel. It's conceivable.

[cartman]

Unfortunately we'll never know what the pilots were saying during the time the plane stopped heading towards Beijing, since the cockpit voice recorder is on a 2 hour loop. So anything they find on the flight data recorder will have to be a guess as to why things happened the way they did.

[PilotMan]

Yes and no. You're right that it's on a loop, however I'm pretty sure that someone good with data recovery might be able to get something off of it. It's my understanding that like any hard disk, even deleted data is recoverable in some fashion.

[Groundhog]

The British seem to have reason to think suicide now.

[PilotMan]

The British seem to have reason to think suicide now.

Found the linkage.

Malaysia Airlines crash: Suicide mission theory of MH370 investigators - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10720237/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Suicide-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.html)

[Groundhog]

Not a lot of details, but the key quote:


The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

An official source told The Telegraph that investigators believe “this has been a deliberate act by someone on board who had to have had the detailed knowledge to do what was done ... Nothing is emerging that points to motive.”


Asked about the possibility of a plane malfunction or an on-board fire, the source said: “It just does not hinge together... [The investigators] have gone through processes you do to get the plane where it flew to for eight hours. They point to it being flown in a rational way.”

[cartman]

They have a better idea than before of just where the plane might be, but the search area is still very remote and very large. This pic helps put things into scale.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjnQnUJIMAA7jON.png

[Edward64]

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

[Logan]

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

That's where the reported altitude change could come into play.

[PilotMan]

If it wasn't a catastrophic event and it was rogue pilot, wouldn't the cabin crew or passengers have done something? Is there a way to incapacitate everyone in the passenger cabin?

You would think at the very least the cabin crew would have tried something.

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

You know that's a good question. Let's look at this hypothetically. If a rouge pilot had done something there would have been a fight in the cockpit first of all. But the cabin crew may not have known anything about it at all. The plane is loud and they may have thought something was up, but could've dismissed it. They call up, someone answers tells them it's all fine and they don't know anything. It was night out and unless the plane was outfitted with tv's and the "where are we now" feature nobody would have know that they weren't flying to China. I question the information about the altitude's that they say the plane was flying at. Let's just say that I'm skeptical. But it doesn't necessarily mean anything anyway. I think what we know is that the plane flew a long time and ended up far away in the Indian Ocean. To me that means that it didn't waste a whole lot of fuel going up and down and pretty much flew a standard planned altitude profile. If it had flown much lower or done a lot of deviations it wouldn't have made it that far.

Is there any way to incapacitate everyone in the cabin? Absolutely. All that needs to be done is the modify the cabin pressure in the plane. The oxygen masks will drop, but they only have about 15 min of air. There are some tanks in the back, but after an hour depressurized at 35k feet there wouldn't be too many people left and a pilot could repressurize the plane again. I'm certainly not saying that's what happened but speaking hypothetically it's possible.

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of debris apparently spotted by satellite.....

Satellite spots 122 objects in search for missing Malaysian jet | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/26/investigators-probe-fresh-data-clue-in-search-for-missing-jet/)

[DaddyTorgo]

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.

Really? That's a little scary in and of itself....

[PilotMan]

Really? That's a little scary in and of itself....

We are the good guys. The point is to keep the bad guys out.

[DaddyTorgo]

We are the good guys. The point is to keep the bad guys out.

Unless there's a not-good pilot up there. Or there's something crazy that goes on and incapacitates the pilot & copilot...

[PilotMan]

Unless there's a not-good pilot up there. Or there's something crazy that goes on and incapacitates the pilot & copilot...

There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.

[DaddyTorgo]

There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.

You're right. I was thinking more of total pilot incapacitation to be honest.

[molson]

The advantages of living in such a litigious society, with well-established tort law.

MH370 Families Might Get Millions, If They're American - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/mh370-families-might-get-millions-if-theyre-american-n61521)

[BishopMVP]

I can't really get into the specifics of the door itself. Except to say that if a pilot was conscious upfront there really isn't anything you can do to get the door open. It's just not happening.

I have no idea what door this particular plane had except that I believe that it had to be the newer reinforced doors that all the US planes have now.There are alternatives in the event of total pilot incapacitation. But would the door really matter if there was a bad pilot up there? I mean they already have total control of the plane from the outset.Kinda curious here if you're allowed to talk about that. Is there like a button the crew can press requesting to enter the cockpit that will automatically unlock the door if there is no response in X minutes? Is it somehow hooked up to a pilot's heart rate?

[Ryan S]

Even with reinforced doors, I kinda believe that it can be broken down after x hours.

I hope not. If it can be broken down over the course of a long haul flight with the materials you would find in a plane cabin then I don't fancy its chances when a terrorist comes along prepared.

[Ryan S]

Kinda curious here if you're allowed to talk about that. Is there like a button the crew can press requesting to enter the cockpit that will automatically unlock the door if there is no response in X minutes? Is it somehow hooked up to a pilot's heart rate?

There are a few vague comments about the procedure here.

What happened to MH370? A pilot and a flight attendant give their views | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/what-happened-to-flight-mh370-missing-plane)

[PilotMan]

There are a few vague comments about the procedure here.

What happened to MH370? A pilot and a flight attendant give their views | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/what-happened-to-flight-mh370-missing-plane)

Yeah, that's about it. I can't really add anymore to that.

[cartman]

It is amazing to me just how much shit they are finding on the satellite images that turns out to be stuff that has fallen off of container or cargo ships.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, that's about it. I can't really add anymore to that.

Makes sense.

[Edward64]

Don't want to get my hopes up considering all the false leads and messed up search.

Report: Chinese ship hears pulse signal in south Indian Ocean - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/05/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
(CNN) -- A Chinese patrol ship looking for signs of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 in the southern Indian Ocean discovered Saturday a pulse signal with a frequency of 37.5 kHz, state news agency Xinhua reported.

"That is the standard beacon frequency" for both so-called black boxes -- the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, said Anish Patel, president of pinger manufacturer Dukane Seacom.

"They're identical."

[cartman]

This really helps to put the depth of the Indian Ocean into perspective.

The depth of the problem - The Washington Post (http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931/)

[flere-imsaho]

Wow.

Also amazing that there's a whale that can survive at almost 2 miles down.

[cartman]

Another strange twist in the case.

MH370 passengers have had £20,000 cash withdrawn from their accounts | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2725142/Mystery-20-000-cash-withdrawn-accounts-four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html)

[bhlloy]

Maybe a bit strange, although I would have thought it was more likely to be somebody who knew four of the victims (or even just got their details from all the coverage) and thought that maybe nobody would notice dead peoples money going missing than anything sinister

[cartman]

One of the things that seemed strange to me was the transfer from three of the missing into the account of a fourth. Maybe they thought it would leave less of a trail pulling everything from one account, rather than 4.