The NBA 2014 Offseason Thread

[miami_fan]

The Finals are next week so I am starting the offseason thread for that sort of discussion.

Woj is reporting that Frank Vogel will be back as Pacers coach.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Woj is reporting that Frank Vogel will be back as Pacers coach.

In which case I suppose the question becomes which players will be back as Pacers.

[Julio Riddols]

If Lance isn't gone, I will have to take a few years off as a fan. I hate players like him.

[nol]

Unfortunately, it's more likely after this past series. He'll be much cheaper because nobody's gonna want to be the team offering him $7M+ per year only to have the Pacers say "Know what? He's your problem now."

Also seems like Derek Fisher will retire. Next season's Knicks coach?

[MrBug708]

Lakers coach...?

[nol]

Quin Snyder about to sign on as the Jazz's new coach.

[stevew]

Cavs are talking to the head coach of Maccabi Tel Aviv(so). Sounds like an interesting choice, dude runs some crazy offensive sets from what I hear. David Blatt

[nol]

He might be more well-known in America as the head coach of Russia's national team. He's led them to some impressive results like a bronze at the last Olympics.

[whomario]

The Warriors are also talking to him to bring him in as an assistant for Kerr, who had talks with him also. That would be a brilliant move for the Warriors, one along the lines of a rather common theme you see in soccer: Bring in a "big name" who can motivate players or just basically set a good tone, but pair him with a savvy X/O guy who really knows the game and is willing to put the work in without getting as much recognition.

Wolves also try to get him to sign on as an assistant (i´d assume that then Saunders would take the reigns for a year and then give Blatt control in year 2)

In general think it is a good thing that quite a few teams are widening their parameters rather than always recycling the same old coaches that get hired again and again.


he does not have a system and blindly sticks to it, rather he has so many options in his playbook that he can accomodate pretty much every type of roster (and yeah, him playing under Carrill at Princeton definitely had an influence)

[Vince, Pt. II]

He would be a home run hire for the Warriors. Unfortunately, they won't be able to offer any upward mobility, so it's only a temporary stop for him. I think that really hurts their chances.

[hoopsguy]

Quin Snyder about to sign on as the Jazz's new coach.

Thought this would draw more comments on FOFC.
I was baffled by Tyrone Corbin as the Jazz head coach, but Snyder getting an NBA job trumps that hire in a big way.

[cartman]

Thought this would draw more comments on FOFC.
I was baffled by Tyrone Corbin as the Jazz head coach, but Snyder getting an NBA job trumps that hire in a big way.

He's a solid Xs and Os guy, but away from the court is where his issues have been. If he does end up at Utah, it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the local culture.

[sterlingice]

Thought this would draw more comments on FOFC.
I was baffled by Tyrone Corbin as the Jazz head coach, but Snyder getting an NBA job trumps that hire in a big way.

I have this awesome picture I took of Quin coaching in a championship game

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/sterlingice/randomphotos/IMG_1493.jpg

It was in an NBADL finals game, but whatever

SI

[stevew]

He's a solid Xs and Os guy, but away from the court is where his issues have been. If he does end up at Utah, it will be interesting to see how he adapts to the local culture.

I tried to Google if he'd converted to Mormonism but came up empty.

[lungs]

Who better, Wiggins or Parker? (if Emblid goes 1, who should the Bucks take?)

[whomario]

If i were making the call, i´d try to see what is available when trading down a couple spots.

[Groundhog]

I think if I were running the show in Cleveland, I'd be seeing if the Sixers would be willing to trade 3 and 10 for the 1st.

[nol]

I was gonna say when people were talking about Kevin Love that the Wolves would be better off striking a deal with the Cavs centered around the first pick and then trying to move down a couple spots from there.

Those two deals would probably be the best haul of cheap young players they could get, which is absolutely what they should be doing since none of these Warriors/Celtics/Bulls offers would make them any better in 14-15 than what they were this season. Don't think the 76ers would give up 3 and 10 for 1 since they seem like they'd be fine with whoever's left at 3, but they don't necessarily need to move down when some team could come out of left field with an offer like when OKC wanted the Brad Beal pick for Harden.

[cartman]

Derek Fisher is the new coach of the Knicks. 5 years/$25 million.

[Neuqua]

Kevin Love would have no interest in re-signing with the Cavs, so unless Cleveland would do the trade without any assurances, I don't see it being made.

[nol]

I think they're desperate/delusional enough to still think they can recruit LeBron (Exhibit A: offering Calipari $80 million for 10 years to be coach/team president), and it would be wise to prey on that.

[Matthean]

Who better, Wiggins or Parker? (if Emblid goes 1, who should the Bucks take?)

Wiggins since he can play defense.

[stevew]

I think they're desperate/delusional enough to still think they can recruit LeBron (Exhibit A: offering Calipari $80 million for 10 years to be coach/team president), and it would be wise to prey on that.

I don't think it's particularly delusional to offer the best available coach whatever it might take to sign him.

[BillJasper]

Derek Fisher is the new coach of the Knicks. 5 years/$25 million.

I doubt either Jackson or Fisher are with the Knicks when that contract expires. :lol:

[nol]

Well, I guess regardless of whether or not you think making John Calipari the highest-paid coach in the NBA and giving him a 10-year deal is a wise strategy, it's safe to say that the Cavs are in enough of a risk-taking mood that trading for Kevin Love without assurance he'll re-up isn't necessarily something they'd shy away from.

[korme]

Wiggins since he can play defense.

With new ownership, John Hammond basically has a 1 year window to impress his new bosses. I would be very surprised if he didn't select Parker.

[stevew]

Well, I guess regardless of whether or not you think making John Calipari the highest-paid coach in the NBA and giving him a 10-year deal is a wise strategy, it's safe to say that the Cavs are in enough of a risk-taking mood that trading for Kevin Love without assurance he'll re-up isn't necessarily something they'd shy away from.

I wouldn't do it but if he elected to pick up the option(like Chris Paul did) I would at least entertain the thought.

[RainMaker]

Wiggins has the higher ceiling so I'd take him. Don't think you can go wrong with either though.

[Qwikshot]

I think if I were running the show in Cleveland, I'd be seeing if the Sixers would be willing to trade 3 and 10 for the 1st.

Never happen...Hinkie doesn't roll that way.

The Sixers are in a great, great spot as they get one of the three elite and there is no way of blowing the pick since they get whatever drops to them (I mean being blamed for blowing the pick).

The tenth pick is gravy.

5 second rounders too...gonna be a fun draft night.

Based on what happens with the 3rd pick, they'll decide what to draft with the tenth.

So you could have Embiid and Noel and then draft a shooter
So you could draft Wiggins and then draft a shooter
So you could draft Parker and then get a wing

In conclusion, Hinkie won't waste two draft picks to move up two spots, he has all the versatility right now to do whatever he wants.

[Qwikshot]

I think they're desperate/delusional enough to still think they can recruit LeBron (Exhibit A: offering Calipari $80 million for 10 years to be coach/team president), and it would be wise to prey on that.

The Cavs really are like a spurned lover who thinks they'll get'em back. It's amazing that they are trying to build a team on the chance of getting Lebron back instead of building the team with what they have.

[Blackadar]

Wiggins has the higher ceiling so I'd take him. Don't think you can go wrong with either though.

Embiid is being compared to Olajuwon. Wiggins has a higher ceiling than that?

[whomario]

Embiid is being compared to Olajuwon. Wiggins has a higher ceiling than that?

I think the original question was about Parker or Wiggins under the assumption Embiid would go at 1 :)

[korme]

Did anyone watch 'The 84 Draft'? So good.

[Alf]

Did anyone watch 'The 84 Draft'? So good.
I just did. And I didn't know the whole story about Sam Bowie and his multiple injuries. I feel sorry for this guy.

[Blackadar]

I just did. And I didn't know the whole story about Sam Bowie and his multiple injuries. I feel sorry for this guy.

He made $15m in his NBA career. I don't feel that sorry for him.

[Alf]

He made $15m in his NBA career. I don't feel that sorry for him.

Sure thing. That's what I told to myself when typing my previous post, but still, he is a sad $15M millionaire. He could have made even more !

[Arles]

Did anyone watch 'The 84 Draft'? So good.
Recorded it. Pretty excited to watch it - esp with your positive comments.

[RainMaker]

Embiid is being compared to Olajuwon. Wiggins has a higher ceiling than that?

Sorry, I meant between Parker and Wiggins. I'm assuming Embiid goes first.

[whomario]

As a side note, i sincerely hope that Nash will play a big role in the NBA related media, one way or another (analyst, color man).

I love the inclusion of Oscar Schmidt, truly one of the great international players. I recommend watching his HOF speech, very good stuff.

The tragic thing about Bowie is that much like Oden he did nothing wrong to deserve the scorn he was getting. There´s so many "busts" that were busts due to screwing up themselves.

[Noop]

Who better, Wiggins or Parker? (if Emblid goes 1, who should the Bucks take?)

I would take Parker because he will likely be a 20+ ppg 6 rebs type of guy, whereas Wiggins has a questionable motor and very unrefined offensive game. Athletically Wiggins is off the charts but the NBA is littered with athletic guys who do not do much.

[whomario]

Plus the Bucks already have the Greek Freak and in theory he fits much better next to Parker than Wiggins. (and imo he showed enough before hitting the rookie wall, to take that into consideration)

[stevew]

Isn't the Greek Freak basically going to hopefully be a better version of Boris Diaw at best? I know he was all highlights and stuff but his game is still pretty questionable for the long run.

And now the Cavs are supposedly back-channeling Mark Jackson.

Thus far-
Tom Izzo
John Calipari
Mark Price
David Blatt
Tyronn Lue
Adrian Griffin
Lionel Hollins
Alvin Gentry

have all been interviewed or offered the job(probably others I'm forgetting). Crazy.

[Noop]

Isn't the Greek Freak basically going to hopefully be a better version of Boris Diaw at best? I know he was all highlights and stuff but his game is still pretty questionable for the long run.

And now the Cavs are supposedly back-channeling Mark Jackson.

Thus far-
Tom Izzo
John Calipari
Mark Price
David Blatt
Tyronn Lue
Adrian Griffin
Lionel Hollins
Alvin Gentry

have all been interviewed or offered the job(probably others I'm forgetting). Crazy.

That guy is an amazing coach I would like to see him coach in the NBA; not sure if the Cavs are the right team though. Leonard Hamilton is available for the Cavs.

[BillJasper]

I'm not sure I see what the advantage is for a successful college coach to jump to the NBA? Twice as many games a season and dealing with guys who will simply pout or give up if they don't get their way.

[whomario]

Isn't the Greek Freak basically going to hopefully be a better version of Boris Diaw at best? I know he was all highlights and stuff but his game is still pretty questionable for the long run.


Which would still be a heck of a player ;) Put it differently, that would be Lamar Odom, wouldn´t it ? And Lamar Odom was pretty damn good. (only with some Kirilenko-type potential defensively thrown in)

The problem with him is obviously that he is literally the most unfinished player in the league at this point, but that is also the intrigue. Personally i was shocked at some of the things he was able to do so early after so little formal basketball training. Because that´s the thing, aside from the highlights the thing that people watching him extensively were most excited about was that he not only held his own but stood out in categories you would expect a guy like him to struggle with the most (awareness on both ends, refined passer and ball handler, very good defensive instincts, getting to the FT line). And by all accounts, there is no question about his character and work ethic at all, something a lot of "projects" had to battle.
He also is a 6´10/6´11 guy who can legitimately guard 3s and get by them offensively.

I mean, he was the youngest player in the league who also had the least playing experience of anyone and likely played at the lowest level of competition of everyone in the league (the greek 2nd division and even that not for very long)

You also can not underrate that he had to come in and play for the Bucks who not only were terrible but also without any sort of clear direction, veteran leadership or consistency (they seemingly had 2 changes to their starting lineup every week).

Basically i don´t see why he couldn´t be a better player than Wiggins 2 years from now,

[nol]

A better version of Boris Diaw who's in good enough shape to stay on the court is basically an All-Star. Giannis is still hard to project because of his inexperience, but he really does have a nose for getting rebounds and blocks that you wouldn't expect him to due to his limited physical strength. Could easily see him putting up numbers like Nic Batum, but Antentokounmpo has probably shown himself to be a better creator off the dribble and rebounder than Batum was at that age.

edit: and even when just looking at highlights in transition, one key difference is that there are quite a few where he pushes the ball up himself and makes some good decisions. His ability to do that in addition to the usual running the floor and finishing an alley-oop is pretty unique at age 19.

[bhlloy]

I would take Parker because he will likely be a 20+ ppg 6 rebs type of guy, whereas Wiggins has a questionable motor and very unrefined offensive game. Athletically Wiggins is off the charts but the NBA is littered with athletic guys who do not do much.

This is my thought as well- Wiggins seems like the kind of athletic player the NBA falls in love with but seems to actually turn out to get anywhere near their potential maybe 1 in 4 or 5, whereas Parker is probably rookie of the year and a very good contributor right away

[Matthean]

That guy is an amazing coach I would like to see him coach in the NBA; not sure if the Cavs are the right team though. Leonard Hamilton is available for the Cavs.

I think a team like the Thunder would be interesting since they don't really play that great of team defense, and you know they can score. Any sort of defensive structure would make them scary.

[CU Tiger]

I'm not sure I see what the advantage is for a successful college coach to jump to the NBA? Twice as many games a season and dealing with guys who will simply pout or give up if they don't get their way.


To me it gets more alluring every year.

As a college coach you have to beg another kid every year to come play for you, kiss the ass of not only an entitled 18 year old but also his AAU, Rec League, High School coach and a few handlers who just need their palms greased....and for all that you get the services of the kid for 1 year, 2 if you are lucky. Then you get to make sure his tutors take his tests and he stays out of trouble else you are plasterd all over the paper.

[Matthean]

To me it gets more alluring every year.

As a college coach you have to beg another kid every year to come play for you, kiss the ass of not only an entitled 18 year old but also his AAU, Rec League, High School coach and a few handlers who just need their palms greased....and for all that you get the services of the kid for 1 year, 2 if you are lucky. Then you get to make sure his tutors take his tests and he stays out of trouble else you are plasterd all over the paper.

On the flip side, if you don't have the best player in the league with a solid cast around him, you are essentially screwed in terms of winning a NBA title.

[whomario]

I dunno, i think the last 6 or 7 years showed enough diversity in the Top4 teams that it does not seem to be all that pronounced an issue.

But of course it is tougher to get to that state where you get essentially unfireable or can choose your job as you´d like it.

[korme]

You think there is hatred for Miami now, imagine if this happened.

Report: Heat Looking To Add Carmelo Anthony, Create Big Four (http://deadspin.com/report-heat-looking-to-add-carmelo-anthony-create-big-1589815284)

[korme]

Fun game to play.

Imagine you're on the new big 4, being the fifth starter. How many games could that team win in the NBA today if you were starting?

I'd say we could probably go get 45-50 wins, Lebron/Wade would have to bring the ball up and you'd have to hide me on defense. I'd probably take 4 shots a game, all threes, with one per game usually being blocked.

[Blackadar]

Fun game to play.

Imagine you're on the new big 4, being the fifth starter. How many games could that team win in the NBA today if you were starting?

I'd say we could probably go get 45-50 wins, Lebron/Wade would have to bring the ball up and you'd have to hide me on defense. I'd probably take 4 shots a game, all threes, with one per game usually being blocked.

65 games. I'd go in, immediately commit 6 fouls and then watch from the bench. My stat line would look like a Roy Hibbert playoff game.

[korme]

65 games. I'd go in, immediately commit 6 fouls and then watch from the bench. My stat line would look like a Roy Hibbert playoff game.


Cheater :devil:

[nol]

Fun game to play.

Imagine you're on the new big 4, being the fifth starter. How many games could that team win in the NBA today if you were starting?

I'd say we could probably go get 45-50 wins, Lebron/Wade would have to bring the ball up and you'd have to hide me on defense. I'd probably take 4 shots a game, all threes, with one per game usually being blocked.

I'm still young enough to have played with/against two lotto picks in this upcoming draft (McDermott and Vonleh), and I'm confident I could make 30+ percent of my unguarded threes if I spent all my time practicing that. Also gives me hope seeing Mario Chalmers out there because someone who knows he sucks and stays out of the way would probably not have as much of an adverse impact as whatever he's doing.

Even if I'm completely overmatched on the defensive end, I could just pull the same stupid maneuvers Chalmers does where I run directly over someone setting a screen or attempt to draw a charge 25 feet from the basket with the hopes that 2 percent of the time the ref will make a terrible call in my favor.

[stevew]

I hate watching Chalmers play fwiw. If he was on some shit team he might get 10 minutes a game. Because Miami just needs him to camp and make open 3s aanddo so little else he's valuable to them.

[nol]

It's amazing how low the bar is set for what he needs to do. Normally teams can put full-court pressure on a bad PG and make his life miserable, but that's the last thing you want to do against Chalmers because it would make James or Wade initiate the offense instead.

As far as getting Carmelo, that would be asking a lot from Wade. He's the closest of any of those guys to being completely washed up/retired, and creating the cap room would require him to opt out of a deal that gives him $20 million next season.

[stevew]

I mentioned it on another forum and Simmons said it the other week in a podcast. The thing is for Wade to take his 40 million and then add on 3 years at 10m/year but to make it into a 5 year deal for 70. His 2014-15 hit would be like 12M and his likelihood of getting anything close to a 3 year/30m deal if he plays out his options seems really weak. Plus I think you can include incentives that could reduce the starting salary of 12 down by even a bit more.

The Carmelo thing def will happen

[DaddyTorgo]

I mentioned it on another forum and Simmons said it the other week in a podcast. The thing is for Wade to take his 40 million and then add on 3 years at 10m/year but to make it into a 5 year deal for 70. His 2014-15 hit would be like 12M and his likelihood of getting anything close to a 3 year/30m deal if he plays out his options seems really weak. Plus I think you can include incentives that could reduce the starting salary of 12 down by even a bit more.

The Carmelo thing def will happen

If that happens it'll be ridiculous. Not that I'm a big basketball fan at all, but if that happens then it's like...why should any other fans in virtually any other city pay attention to their teams as far as them having a shot at being competitive for the title.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The irony, perhaps, is in the successful example of stars cutting their pay (in half) to help the team with salary cap ...

From July 2012
Tim Duncan cut his paycheck in half, so that his San Antonio Spurs could remain whole | Ball Don't Lie - Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tim-duncan-cut-paycheck-half-san-antonio-spurs-161015938--nba.html)

[chadritt]

Yeah, its REALLY hard for me to get mad at star players like Lebron for taking less than they could get on the open market so they can have a better supporting cast. We bitch and bitch and bitch when guys take the max they can get because it makes the team too weak for a title and then we bitch when they go "here, ill take enough that we can get another star or two or three". What should we be rooting for someone like Lebron to do here?

[nol]

Yeah, its REALLY hard for me to get mad at star players like Lebron for taking less than they could get on the open market so they can have a better supporting cast. We bitch and bitch and bitch when guys take the max they can get because it makes the team too weak for a title and then we bitch when they go "here, ill take enough that we can get another star or two or three". What should we be rooting for someone like Lebron to do here?

That and it's kind of what the NBA deserves for lowballing the players so much that the stars get paid much less than they're worth. It's much easier to take $15 million and another star player on your team when the alternative's $20 rather than $40-50 million.

[CU Tiger]

Am I the only one who thinks Mello doesnt improve the Heat?

[nol]

It wouldn't make them unbeatable especially as everyone gets older, but they had a relatively easy run to get to the Finals this year with Rashard Lewis where Carmelo would be. Carmelo is a ridiculously good shooter when he's not the main option and taking questionable shots - he might've led team USA in scoring the past two Olympics just from knocking down like 60% of his threes from the shorter line.

[sterlingice]

Isn't Miami showing that they don't have much defense beyond LeBron right now? How does Melo help that?

SI

[nol]

Isn't Miami showing that they don't have much defense beyond LeBron right now? How does Melo help that?

SI

Because one good offensive player can do more for your offense than one good defensive player can do for your defense.

A team like the Spurs will find your defensive weak links regardless. LeBron's had 3 baskets scored on him all game, and 2 of them were contested threes. When the alternative is plugging in Rashard Lewis or some other 38-year-old, why not?

[ColtCrazy]

Would Wade be willing to take an even lesser role? He'd be, most likely, the third option. I don't disagree that Melo probably gives the Heat an automatic trip back to the Finals (just think the Pacers are in flux), but I'm not sure how Wade and Bosh would handle the diminished roles.

On a side note…how bad does the Leonard-Hill trade look now for the Pacers? I know, the Pacers needed a PG when the deal was made, but still. Hill is about as good as he's ever going to get. Leonard is 22 and looks like he may be hitting another level.

[nol]

I remember during that draft thinking that the Pacers had agreed in advance to trade their pick for Hill not knowing Leonard would fall there. I thought he'd get drafted in the 5-10 range (at least before Jimmer).

[Matthean]

Would Wade be willing to take an even lesser role? He'd be, most likely, the third option. I don't disagree that Melo probably gives the Heat an automatic trip back to the Finals (just think the Pacers are in flux), but I'm not sure how Wade and Bosh would handle the diminished roles.

Unless they are turning back the clock, they don't really have options.

[CU Tiger]

Bosh doesnt help the Heat at all.

Honestly instead of Melo I think the heat would be helped more by getting 2 or 3 mid level guys who can play D, rebound and score without needing to make their own shot.

I loved Bosh in Toronto, but I think Boozer would help the Heat way more than Bosh. OR keep Bosh and add a true 5 and let Bosh slide down to the 4.

[nol]

Bosh is normally huge for their defensive scheme, but the Spurs move the ball around so well to mitigate what he does so well against the other 28 teams - guard the pick-and-roll far from the basket.

The Heat have seemed to have trouble understanding that when the Spurs run a P-N-R, it's not for Tony Parker or Boris Diaw to drive hard to the basket and try to score but to set up something 5-10 seconds later. They want Miami to jump out all over the initial screen and get out of position to defend the actual play - the same general strategy Indiana uses to occasionally look good against Indiana, but San Antonio has much, much better offensive personnel.

That's where I think Spoelstra's somewhat overrated as a coach - there's a big disconnect between how he talks about the Heat (positionless basketball, creating havoc all over the court) and how they actually play (bottom-5 pace in the league this season, 2 bad PGs get lots of playing time when the SG and SF are better at running an offense). The Heat's defensive scheme is that of some young team that has trouble scoring in the half court and needs to manufacture as many fast-break baskets as possible, which is the exact opposite of what they are offensively. That kind of defense is obviously something a roster of old guys can't sustain.

As far as getting multiple cheaper guys instead of Melo, that would definitely be ideal, but there was something I wrote in another thread where guys with all of those skills are actually rarer than you'd think and are being paid more as the league comes to realize their importance. That's where being more proactive in terms of looking through guys playing overseas rather than just going for 'name' players the past few years would've helped.

[nol]

Less than 2 weeks from the draft, I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being some movement among the top 3 picks.

Been hearing that Milwaukee wouldn't mind moving down from number 2 if they can get rid of Larry Sanders' contract in the same deal, and the Sixers are also high enough on Andrew Wiggins that they'd be interested in moving up if he's not going to be there at 3.

[stevew]

Probably will see some movement on the Cavs coaching hire this week. Blatt comes in tomorrow... My thought is we'll know if he's the guy by Friday. Otherwise Blatt will go to GS. Whomever is hired better damn well know how to use Kyrie and Dion together. Also moving Tristan is paramount. Anthony Bennett has so much more NBA style upside.

[Groundhog]

I'm sorta hoping for Blatt to be honest. It's a risk, but at the same time I think it's a good gamble compared to other known commodities.

Definitely agree on both Thompson and Bennett - I wouldn't mind Thompson as first big off the bench, but if we are starting Varejao and Thompson in the frontcourt again this year, I expect another mediocre result unless Wiggins/Parker/whoever is the 2nd coming.

[Matthean]

LeBron not sounding like a guy who wants to stay pat and do a retry.

[Groundhog]

LeBron not sounding like a guy who wants to stay pat and do a retry.

If winning is really all that matters to him, I think he's crazy if he stays assuming Riley doesn't have an Ace up his sleeve.

[RainMaker]

Where else would he go? Not many teams have that kind of cap space and I don't see him as the kind of person who would want to go to the West.

[Qwikshot]

I think he stays.

Some Philly writer talked of him joining the Sixers since we are 33 million under the cap, but I'm extremely doubtful of such an event occurring.

[CU Tiger]

Where else would he go? Not many teams have that kind of cap space and I don't see him as the kind of person who would want to go to the West.


I honestly dont think he cares about the cap.
Hell he just got 38Million off the apple beats sale and his Nike annual is reportedlty 9 figures.

I would relaly like to see him take league minimum to go somewhere absurd, jus to see how it would be turned into a selfish move.

[Arles]

I think this is just a power play by Lebron to get the owner to go over the tax. I doubt he leaves Miami for Cleveland, Philly, Charlotte, Atlanta or some other team with space.

[korme]

Pat Riley's press conference is intimidating me into re-signing with Miami

[Arles]

Joel "Don't call me Sam Bowie" Embiid suffers another injury:

Joel Embiid suffers foot injury prior to NBA draft - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/11107087/joel-embiid-suffers-foot-injury-prior-nba-draft)

[Scarecrow]

Pat Riley might get a chance to build an entire team this offseason - 13 of the 15 Miami players are Free Agents.

FA - Retiring
Ray Allen
Shane Battier

UFA
Michael Beasley
Mario Chalmers
Toney Douglas
Udonis Haslem
James Jones
Rashard Lewis
Greg Oden

RFA - Early Termination Option
Chris Bosh
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade

RFA - Player Option
Chris Anderson

Still on the team
Norris Cole
Justin Hamilton

[JonInMiddleGA]

FA - Retiring
Ray Allen
Shane Battier


Has Allen decided/announced? I knew Battier had but I thought that Allen was still undetermined/undecided.

[Logan]

Joel "Don't call me Sam Bowie" Embiid suffers another injury:

Joel Embiid suffers foot injury prior to NBA draft - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/11107087/joel-embiid-suffers-foot-injury-prior-nba-draft)

Seeing how this draft is shaping up makes all the tanking talk beginning at least a year ago seem even crazier.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

:rolleyes: Bill Simmons already positing that Embiid will fall to the Celtics.

[Chief Rum]

Joel "Don't call me Sam Bowie" Embiid suffers another injury:

Joel Embiid suffers foot injury prior to NBA draft - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/11107087/joel-embiid-suffers-foot-injury-prior-nba-draft)

I have long been of the opinion that Embiid is a bust waiting to happen, mostly because I see the same injury type issues we saw with Greg Oden. Maybe not that extensive, but enough to really limit his potential. That, plus the fact he is still a rather raw player learning to play the game.

I have long considered it to be nuts that any team would take Embiid, especially in today's guard and wing dominated NBA, over Wiggins or Parker.

[Qwikshot]

I have long been of the opinion that Embiid is a bust waiting to happen, mostly because I see the same injury type issues we saw with Greg Oden. Maybe not that extensive, but enough to really limit his potential. That, plus the fact he is still a rather raw player learning to play the game.

I have long considered it to be nuts that any team would take Embiid, especially in today's guard and wing dominated NBA, over Wiggins or Parker.

I don't think he'll bust (I'm betting Exum does).

That being said, he'll be drafted too high.

This may just work for the Sixers who can grab him and sit him for the year (Sixers if they make the playoffs lose a draft pick to Boston?Miami? next season)

A year off with Nerlens and MCW (he's hurt now too) and whatever they grab at 10, and you have a freakish team.

[stevew]

Embiid's agent is just fucking with the Cavs. That's my running theory.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Thought I read that the Cavs discovered the injury and informed the agency.

[Qwikshot]

Thought I read that the Cavs discovered the injury and informed the agency.

That is what Woj is reporting...potential right foot fracture.

[Qwikshot]

This may be worse than suspected.

Adrian Wojnarowski (WojYahooNBA) on Twitter (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)

[stevew]

Hmmm, I dunno. Even with a broken foot I wouldn't pass up on the guy. It's not about whether he misses the first 25-50 games of his rookie year anyways. We gotta get off this "playoffs now" type mentality they got brewing. In an ideal situation you'd draft Embiid and he wouldn't need to play more than 1600 minutes next year anyways. While I see the obvious potential in Bennett, I still feel that Noel was probably the way to go.

[Qwikshot]

Hmmm, I dunno. Even with a broken foot I wouldn't pass up on the guy. It's not about whether he misses the first 25-50 games of his rookie year anyways. We gotta get off this "playoffs now" type mentality they got brewing. In an ideal situation you'd draft Embiid and he wouldn't need to play more than 1600 minutes next year anyways. While I see the obvious potential in Bennett, I still feel that Noel was probably the way to go.

This is why I think it doesn't hurt the Sixers...if Noel has no further health issues and they get Embiid (for value) and he's fine after this, wowzers....

[Chief Rum]

Hmmm, I dunno. Even with a broken foot I wouldn't pass up on the guy. It's not about whether he misses the first 25-50 games of his rookie year anyways. We gotta get off this "playoffs now" type mentality they got brewing. In an ideal situation you'd draft Embiid and he wouldn't need to play more than 1600 minutes next year anyways. While I see the obvious potential in Bennett, I still feel that Noel was probably the way to go.

I don't think Parker or Wiggins are going to be as good as Durant, and I don't think Embiid is going to be as bad (or as unfortunate) as Oden. But that's what I see here. If the Cavs take Embiid, they will watch Parker and Wiggins blow up into All Stars in the very near future while their guy is busy trying to stay healthy and "learn" the game.

[stevew]

I don't think Parker or Wiggins are going to be as good as Durant, and I don't think Embiid is going to be as bad (or as unfortunate) as Oden. But that's what I see here. If the Cavs take Embiid, they will watch Parker and Wiggins blow up into All Stars in the very near future while their guy is busy trying to stay healthy and "learn" the game.

Even if he's 100% healthy there's no reason why he would be making all star type impacts for at least his first season or two. Taking him is a long game play anyways. If this is some thing where there's two bones in his foot that will never heal or something, okay pass. If it were an ankle injury I'd pass. But it's a long game play and while Embiid is going to be good, the Cavs best center for 2014 will be Andy. Or at least Andy for the 30-50 games he can play before he gets a season ending injury.

And people want to mock Kyrie and Waiters, but if the new coach can introduce an effective offense from this century, both of those guys are going to put up a ton of points. Maybe I'm just delusional but Waiters put up 19ppg after the all star break. I also like the fact that he's willing to punch a teammate in the face.

[Chief Rum]

Even if he's 100% healthy there's no reason why he would be making all star type impacts for at least his first season or two. Taking him is a long game play anyways. If this is some thing where there's two bones in his foot that will never heal or something, okay pass. If it were an ankle injury I'd pass. But it's a long game play and while Embiid is going to be good, the Cavs best center for 2014 will be Andy. Or at least Andy for the 30-50 games he can play before he gets a season ending injury.

And people want to mock Kyrie and Waiters, but if the new coach can introduce an effective offense from this century, both of those guys are going to put up a ton of points. Maybe I'm just delusional but Waiters put up 19ppg after the all star break. I also like the fact that he's willing to punch a teammate in the face.

I hope for your sake, Steve, that you're right, but I don't see Embiid as a Duncan or Griffin or KG or some other strong, active, athletic big man. He just doesn't have that skillset. He can learn, sure, but he doesn't have the kind of natural skills that comes from being a kid growing up with the game, and in that way, he'll always be a little behind. That probably slow development curve with limited potential plus the injury history tells me he is way overrated for the #1 spot in this draft.

If I were the Cavs, I would go with Wiggins and either see if Bennett can play the 4 in the smaller, quicker lineup that is more common in the NBA now, or I would use Bennett as a piece to try to get Love.

[Arles]

I'm leery of big men with a history of foot/leg injuries. I would probably take Embiid in the 4-6 range, but not over the top 2 wing guys.

[nol]

He can learn, sure, but he doesn't have the kind of natural skills that comes from being a kid growing up with the game, and in that way, he'll always be a little behind.

If only he had been dribbling a basketball out of the womb like Hakeem Olajuwon and Tim Duncan were ;)

And I like Wiggins enough that I'd have been fine with a team taking him first overall before Embiid's injury. Just saying that the age at which one starts playing basketball is not the end-all be-all predictor for how skills and basketball IQ develop, especially when we're talking about seven-footers. In fact, you could easily argue that playing in a year-round competitive setting from elementary school onwards hinders the long-term development of big men.

[sterlingice]

Charlotte's new jerseys are pretty good retro jerseys

Charlotte Hornets unveil new*jerseys | The Point Forward - SI.com (http://nba.si.com/2014/06/19/charlotte-hornets-jerseys-photos-pictures/)


SI

[Young Drachma]

Not retro, no pinstripes.

[korme]

Should have kept the pinstripes

[korme]

Another case where the throwbacks are better. Should have kept teal as primary

[Chief Rum]

If only he had been dribbling a basketball out of the womb like Hakeem Olajuwon and Tim Duncan were ;)

And I like Wiggins enough that I'd have been fine with a team taking him first overall before Embiid's injury. Just saying that the age at which one starts playing basketball is not the end-all be-all predictor for how skills and basketball IQ develop, especially when we're talking about seven-footers. In fact, you could easily argue that playing in a year-round competitive setting from elementary school onwards hinders the long-term development of big men.

Olajuwon is the exception that proves the rule. I'm not ready to put Embiid in Hall of Famer Olajuwon's company just yet.

Also, Embiid was way behind in his skills learning even as a senior in high school. I remember the scouting reports on him because UCLA (the college I follow) was looking at him closely before he chose Kansas. He's just flat behind the curve, and that's on top of any issues with when he actually started playing the game.

I think it's just nutty to go with him over the other players available near the top of the board.

[stevew]

The pinstripe retro Hornets jerseys could not be duplicated due to some rule about jerseys entering the Hardwood Classics line.

[korme]

The pinstripe retro Hornets jerseys could not be duplicated due to some rule about jerseys entering the Hardwood Classics line.

Really?

[stevew]

from some Rovell article
Before arriving at the designs, the team went through an exhaustive process, which included making sure the exact colors can be sourced and testing how the uniforms read on camera.

Per league rules, the Hornets had to change up designs and logos from their history, as those designs now fall under the league's retro Hardwood Classics program.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Really?

According to today's Charlotte Observer story

The Hornets did not have the option of going with the exact uniforms worn in 1988, under NBA rules. The league requires updates.

Read more here: Charlotte Hornets unveil new uniforms | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/06/19/4989257/charlotte-hornets-unveil-new-uniforms.html#storylink=cpy)

[stevew]

Charlotte Hornets unveil three primary new uniforms - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11107325/charlotte-hornets-unveil-three-primary-new-uniforms)

maybe actually watch the video

[korme]

from some Rovell article
Before arriving at the designs, the team went through an exhaustive process, which included making sure the exact colors can be sourced and testing how the uniforms read on camera.

Per league rules, the Hornets had to change up designs and logos from their history, as those designs now fall under the league's retro Hardwood Classics program.

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

[stevew]

Now reading that this injury on Embiid is similar to You Ming and Z.

I now have 0 idea what to do. I really like Exum and I think he could work great with Dion.

[Chief Rum]

Now reading that this injury on Embiid is similar to You Ming and Z.

I now have 0 idea what to do. I really like Exum and I think he could work great with Dion.

So do you just not like Parker or Wiggins?

[Kodos]

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

I have that same dream for the Falcons.

[cartman]

I wonder how much Portland is going to have to give up in order to move up and draft Embiid.

[nol]

Olajuwon is the exception that proves the rule. I'm not ready to put Embiid in Hall of Famer Olajuwon's company just yet.

Also, Embiid was way behind in his skills learning even as a senior in high school. I remember the scouting reports on him because UCLA (the college I follow) was looking at him closely before he chose Kansas. He's just flat behind the curve, and that's on top of any issues with when he actually started playing the game.

I think it's just nutty to go with him over the other players available near the top of the board.

Tim Duncan didn't play basketball until his freshman year of high school. Anthony Davis has been a post player/taller than 6'3" for like 4 years of his life to this point. I specifically stated that it didn't necessarily mean he was their equal (is a number one pick a bust if he falls short of being one of the top 10-15 players of all time?). In this particular case, the injury history looks serious enough - when combined with the fact that players like Wiggins and Parker are not slouches - to make that moot.

It's not at all uncommon for explosive and fluid 6'10+ players who are serious about working hard to improve exponentially - it's just hard to come across them in the first place. The curve Embiid was on took him from a high school junior who might have been one of the top 50 or so recruits to to a top 5-10 recruit by the end of his senior year to a potential first overall pick the next season; whatever curve that puts him ahead or behind, that's a hell of a curve to be on.

Per minute, his numbers are not at all dissimilar to what Olajuwon/Duncan/Davis put up their freshman seasons. If Duncan had entered the draft in 1994, anyone with a high lottery pick who passed on him citing that he looks behind in his development because he'd only been playing for five years would not be long for a job. It's entirely fair to shy away if you've seen the medical reports and you don't want to draft another Sam Bowie/Greg Oden, but guys that big and athletic who improved that much from age 16-19 have an outstanding track record of continuing to develop skill-wise.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Rumors circulating that the Warriors are now including Klay Thompson in Kevin Love trade talks. Word is Love + Kevin Martin for Lee and Klay.

Not sure that actually makes the Warriors better - you lose a ton of defense at the 2 spot there, and Steph is already a minus defender.

[Izulde]

Those Hornets jerseys look a little bland IMO.

[RainMaker]

Rumors circulating that the Warriors are now including Klay Thompson in Kevin Love trade talks. Word is Love + Kevin Martin for Lee and Klay.

Not sure that actually makes the Warriors better - you lose a ton of defense at the 2 spot there, and Steph is already a minus defender.

Love is a top 10 player and Martin was actually better than Klay last year. They also don't have to deal with overpaying Klay at the end of the season. It'd be a great trade for Golden State.

[stevew]

Cavs supposedly down to Lue vs Blatt.

[Vince, Pt. II]

...Martin was actually better than Klay last year...

I am admittedly not the biggest basketball fan in the world, but this seems mind-boggling to me. Klay is top 20 in points scored, one of the best three point shooters in the game and plays exceptional defense. Kevin Martin...is someone I have hardly heard about. Martin had fewer blocks, steals and rebounds than Thompson, far fewer points, and shot at a lower percentage both from the field and from beyond the arc than Thompson.

[murrayyyyy]

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

The 80's design is not coming back but the 80's logo is coming back with a more modern looking bird in the circle logo.

Kings retro-crown is coming back. Celtics secondary logo is horrible (think NBA logo man with the pipe smoking celtic logo). Rockets have new "HR" logo. 76ers have a new "Ben Franklin" who looks like he is driving to the rim logo coming out next season. Warriors have 2 new logos coming out and they both look like crap but one is on a black basketball so maybe they have a new third jersey coming out with black in it. I don't remember seeing that color on any jersey in the book (maybe it was TBA).

[Matthean]

Cavs supposedly down to Lue vs Blatt.

Blatt with the offer.

[RainMaker]

I am admittedly not the biggest basketball fan in the world, but this seems mind-boggling to me. Klay is top 20 in points scored, one of the best three point shooters in the game and plays exceptional defense. Kevin Martin...is someone I have hardly heard about. Martin had fewer blocks, steals and rebounds than Thompson, far fewer points, and shot at a lower percentage both from the field and from beyond the arc than Thompson.

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.

[nol]

That trade somehow manages to be terrible for both teams. The Warriors would become so bad at defense as to not be a serious contender and the Wolves wouldn't get any better even on the off chance Klay Thompson actually wanted to be there and played well.

If I were trading Love, it'd be for #1 or bust. There are some more interesting offers for that pick: Utah is desperate to move up for Parker and is allegedly offering the #5 and Derrick Favors.

[stevew]

I think I take Favors and #5 but only if I can use #5 and other stuff to get Kevin Love(probably can't)

[RainMaker]

That trade somehow manages to be terrible for both teams. The Warriors would become so bad at defense as to not be a serious contender and the Wolves wouldn't get any better even on the off chance Klay Thompson actually wanted to be there and played well.

If I were trading Love, it'd be for #1 or bust. There are some more interesting offers for that pick: Utah is desperate to move up for Parker and is allegedly offering the #5 and Derrick Favors.

Why would the Warriors become worse on defense? They also still have two exceptional defenders in Bogut and Iguodala.

[nol]

Why would the Warriors become worse on defense? They also still have two exceptional defenders in Bogut and Iguodala.

When you trade a good defender for a bad defender, you become worse at defense. Klay Thompson is a good defender. Kevin Martin is a bad defender.

[RainMaker]

When you trade a good defender for a bad defender, you become worse at defense. Klay Thompson is a good defender. Kevin Martin is a bad defender.

Lee is a worse defender than Love. Love helps you on the defensive glass. And him improving the effeciency of the offense improves the defense.

I just don't see how this move dramatically alters the Warriors defense. You are claiming that it will make the Warriors so bad on defense they can't compete. I see it as a wash, especially when Thompson doesn't guard top wings.

[korme]

The 80's design is not coming back but the 80's logo is coming back with a more modern looking bird in the circle logo.

Kings retro-crown is coming back. Celtics secondary logo is horrible (think NBA logo man with the pipe smoking celtic logo). Rockets have new "HR" logo. 76ers have a new "Ben Franklin" who looks like he is driving to the rim logo coming out next season. Warriors have 2 new logos coming out and they both look like crap but one is on a black basketball so maybe they have a new third jersey coming out with black in it. I don't remember seeing that color on any jersey in the book (maybe it was TBA).

I want your insider knowledge.

Are these all being prepared for '14-15?

[nol]

Thompson guards top point guards instead of Curry, and there are plenty more of those to defend than there are wings. Think that might be a problem in a conference that accounted for all six of the All-NBA guards? Lee was actually decent this year - he and Love are both just kind of average.

The best offensive players in the league are good enough to get the better of the best individual defenders. Chris Paul was 1st team all-defense and still had trouble slowing Russell Westbrook down in the playoffs (before he had to move over and try to guard Durant). Nobody's good enough to lock down the best scorers one-on-one and also cover a bunch of their teammmates' mistakes. Even someone like Roy Hibbert playing his best basketball is able to do what he does because Indiana's perimeter defenders are good enough that even when they get beat, they don't often allow someone to have a full head of steam when driving to the rim.

In the playoffs, you don't get to say "We have two plus defenders, two minus defenders, and one neutral defender, so it all evens out," when your top defender is going to have enough problems guarding Blake Griffin or Kevin Durant or whomever.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.

I've been meaning to bone up on advanced NBA stats for a while now, it seems like they've got some really great metrics and things developing. Maybe this will be the impetus for that.

I agree with you that Klay doesn't do much to create his own shot - I know at one point last year he was the most assisted player in the entire NBA, with something like 90+% of his shots coming from an assist of another player. That being said, Klay is light years ahead of Martin on defense, and unless Martin is considerably better on offense (I doubt that seriously), there's no way he's even a comparable player, let alone a better player. Especially on a team that has a serious problem with back court defense if he's gone.

[Groundhog]

Really like those Hornets unis.

Sucks for Embiid, but to be honest I was nervous before the injury, so at least this (hopefully) completely puts him out of the picture there. Parker or Wiggins now with Exum a darkhorse. Would love to cheer for another Aussie PG on the Cavs, but I think the smart pick is Parker, as far as 'best available' goes.

[Arles]

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.
Klay was guarding the best opponent scoring guard (usually PG) so Curry could rest. Iggy got their best left SG/SF and Bogut the C. Iggy can't really guard quick PGs now, and Curry is useless as well. Martin had Brewer to guard the best scorer and got hidden like Curry. I think this is a solid trade overall (I think Love is light years ahead of Lee), but you will now need Iggy to stay healthy and potentially make up for two "hide defenders" in Martin and Curry.

Still, the main reason I like this trade is Klay is going to get massively overpaid in the next year. I'd rather pay Love the Max plus a $5-7 mil SG than have that same money in Klay and Lee.

[stevew]

Blatt to the Cavs, official.

[RainMaker]

I've been meaning to bone up on advanced NBA stats for a while now, it seems like they've got some really great metrics and things developing. Maybe this will be the impetus for that.

I agree with you that Klay doesn't do much to create his own shot - I know at one point last year he was the most assisted player in the entire NBA, with something like 90+% of his shots coming from an assist of another player. That being said, Klay is light years ahead of Martin on defense, and unless Martin is considerably better on offense (I doubt that seriously), there's no way he's even a comparable player, let alone a better player. Especially on a team that has a serious problem with back court defense if he's gone.

I just see the move as a huge positive. Klay is better than Martin defensively. But Martin was better than Klay offensively. Love is better than Lee defensively and offensively.

I don't see the Warriors defense collapsing after this trade. They'll score more efficiently and rebound better defensively which will help their defense a lot. I guess I'd view it as a wash defensively and a huge upgrade offensively.

[Arles]

The best way to defend it is Martin+Love@Max > Lee+Klay@big contract

[RainMaker]

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

[Chief Rum]

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

Exactly. Which is why Minnesota wants--and should get--more.

[nol]

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

Yes, in fantasy basketball those two would definitely get you more points. But having a backcourt of two players you have to hide on the other team's worst perimeter player is tough to pull off when your potential playoff matchups include Paul, Harden, Westbrook, Lillard, Parker, etc. Not to mention that Kevin Martin wouldn't be doing that much more on offense than Klay Thompson would as the third option on a team with Curry and Love.

Of course the trade is "better" for Golden State - it's their own crappy offer they made in the first place! Minnesota's not sitting around saying "I hope we can get a worse version of the star we're trading and a SG who will play for one year before signing elsewhere. Please say yes!"

[Arles]

If I were Golden State, I would try to work a third team to send Kevin Martin and Harrison Barnes for a better defending 2-guard who can hit 3s. Ie, see if you can move Martin and Barnes to Orlando for Afflalo.

[nol]

That wouldn't be good for Orlando because they already have their own young wing players in Harris and Harkless, so getting another one wouldn't be worth the downgrade from Martin to Afflalo.

Joel Embiid is looking at 4-6 months of recovery after surgery. This really sucks for somebody whose limited experience was supposed to be a plus when it comes to avoiding chronic injuries.

[korme]

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

[whomario]

Isaiah Austin of Baylor (who declared for this draft) has to immediately stop playing basketball, apparently his eye condition (he was legally blind on one eye) was not enough bad luck, now diagnosed with sth called "Marfan-Syndrome". So he went from likely first rounder to no nba career in a year, gotta feel bad for him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Marfan-syndrome is the whole "long limbs and really tall" thing right?

Yup.

Edit: was thinking it was the thing that Andre the Giant had, but that was something else.

[nol]

Yes, it's primarily a disorder associated with connective tissue. Abe Lincoln might have possibly had it.

It's actually kind of surprising more NBA players haven't been diagnosed with it because one of the primary diagnostics for Marfan is a wingspan-to-height ratio above a certain value, and that value is less than the ratio for the average NBA player.

edit: the scary thing is this must have been something that was only caught in pre-draft physicals. If he hadn't left early, would he have just played for an extra year or two with his condition?

[DaddyTorgo]

Yes, it's primarily a disorder associated with connective tissue. Abe Lincoln might have possibly had it.

It's actually kind of surprising more NBA players haven't been diagnosed with it because one of the primary diagnostics for Marfan is a wingspan-to-height ratio above a certain value, and that value is less than the ratio for the average NBA player.

wikipedia article i saw said that lincoln is now believed to have had something else.

[nol]

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

I don't think he'd drop any more than wherever Noel was picked last year (was it sixth?). All the quotes like "I wouldn't even think about taking him if I had a top ten pick" are obviously from teams drafting just outside the top ten. I wouldn't be that surprised if he still went in the top three just because everything is so innundated with BS at this point.

[murrayyyyy]

I want your insider knowledge.

Are these all being prepared for '14-15?

All these will be used in 14-15 as "Secondary logos". The Warriors seem to have a new one every season that goes over horribly just like these two will. I'm horribly confused by the black basketball since it has SF as the initials in the logo. I haven't seen anything that suggest they will have a black jersey next season.

If I had to rank the new ones coming out it would easily be the Hawks @ #1. They are the only ones I've seen made public so far even though everyone was suppose to release them already. I could see them changing to this as primary in the near future.

http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2014/05/Atlanta-Hawks-Logo-Compare.png

76ers logo is just an update of the logo on the left when you really look at it.

http://www.hatland.com/closeup.cfm/hats,0,5420.html

Kings is a cleaned up version of this old one.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/240/full/833.gif

I can't find any other examples that are close for the other teams so you have to wait until they release it or Nov 1st when it's supposedly in use.

If you only knew the amount of images that hit my in box. Makes me wish I had kept track of all of them.

[Vince, Pt. II]

If I were Golden State, I would try to work a third team to send Kevin Martin and Harrison Barnes for a better defending 2-guard who can hit 3s. Ie, see if you can move Martin and Barnes to Orlando for Afflalo.

Rumor has it the Lakers want Klay for the #7 pick. Lots of rumors out there lately.

Kerr has come out and said that he's not in favor of getting rid of Klay, which is a nice diplomatic move that should help keep him a little happier if he stays.

[Groundhog]

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets. :D

[Arles]

Rumor has it the Lakers want Klay for the #7 pick. Lots of rumors out there lately.

Kerr has come out and said that he's not in favor of getting rid of Klay, which is a nice diplomatic move that should help keep him a little happier if he stays.
Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though ;)

[Blackadar]

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets. :D

I sincerely doubt he gets by Boston at #6, who has a history of taking risks with guys with questionable health issues (Jared Sullinger).

[Blackadar]

Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though ;)

Yeah, I don't see that one happening. Klay's performance + youth makes him more valuable than the #7 by a long shot.

Rumors persist that if the Celtics don't land 'Melo or Love, they might move Rondo for that #7 pick. Rondo's 28, his contract is expiring and he may not want to go through a rebuilding phase.

[Logan]

Why would you trade Klay for the 7th pick when the player available is worse? That would be an awful trade. I can't imagine that trade is from GS. I bet there's a "rumor" that the Suns would want Klay for the #14 and #18. Doesn't mean there's a chance it will happen though ;)

Not saying it makes it good or bad but I imagine getting a guy on a rookie contract vs giving Thompson monster money next year would play a big part in it.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, the Warriors are running out of room to pay people. They'd rather not go the Miami route of having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill the bench.

Most of the talk includes the Lakers as the third team in the mix, but I don't know how you get a nice piece from someone WITHOUT giving them Klay Thompson, and the #7 is not a nice enough piece.

[stevew]

Hey, if I absolutely have to, I'd give Jarrett Jack back to the Warriors.

[Qwikshot]

I actually think the Sixers are a dark horse to grab him too, with two top-10 picks in their arsenal. If they don't grab him at #3, I think he could fall as low as Bobcats. Uh, I mean, Hornets. :D

I don't think the Sixers are a dark horse...if Cleveland and Milwaukee pass, I'm pretty sure they're going to scoop him up. There is no driver to have him play next season...as I've said, if the Sixers make the playoffs (which they won't), they lose a 1st rounder.

Hinkie is about acquiring assets, a big man that can shoot is always valuable. A year off with no pressure to return could allow Embiid to recover and learn the game without rush.

If Cleveland or the Bucks grab him, then the Sixers have Wiggins or Parker...it's a win-win.

Cleveland is in a win now mode, I could see Parker as the more polished of the two going there, but if they want someone to defend on the wings, then Wiggins will be their man. There is chatter of Exum going to Milwaukee, I don't see that happening...

Everything will be decided on Cleveland's pick, and the reverberations will go from there.

It's always been a three horse race between Wiggins, Parker and Embiid. I don't see the Sixers trading down.

[stevew]

A week ago, Joel Embiid looked like a lock to be the No. 1 pick in the draft. News of a stress fracture in his right foot sent the Cavs spinning. Now the Cavs are wrestling between three options: draft Jabari Parker, draft Andrew Wiggins or trade the pick.

Sources close to the Cavs told ESPN.com this weekend that the Cavs are now leaning toward taking Parker with the No. 1 pick. However, it's far from a lock. Parker came in to work out on Friday in front of the Cavs front office and ownership. Parker wasn't great. He was a bit heavy (he weighed in at 255 pounds), didn't shoot the ball well and got winded at times. Furthermore, two different sources told ESPN.com that Parker seemed a bit indifferent. One source said he thought Parker "tanked" the workout.

Why? A source says he strongly prefers to play in Milwaukee. The Cavs appear to be aware of this. "Jabari wasn't himself," one source said. "It was clear we weren't his first option."

Meanwhile, Wiggins came in and nailed his workout on Wednesday. He shot the ball well, showed off tremendous athleticism and had a good interview. In fact, Wiggins was emphatic that he wants to be the No. 1 pick and wants to play for the Cavs.

So why is Parker ahead of Wiggins?

From what I can gather, while there are disagreements in the front office, Cavs GM David Griffin feels that Parker fits a more immediate need at the 3. Parker also is the most NBA-ready. They feel that whether he wants to play there or not, those hesitations will disappear when he arrives. They have a new front office, a new head coach and believe that he can actually help them build the sort of culture they want. Parker's workout on Friday did create doubt, especially among ownership, but so far it looks like they are still leaning Parker.

The third option, a trade, is also on the table. The Cavs received intriguing offers from the Sixers, Magic and Jazz late last week. Each is offering its own high lottery pick plus a veteran. The Cavs could theoretically get one of Thaddeus Young, Arron Afflalo or Derrick Favors and still have a top-5 pick in the draft. It would make it much easier to draft Embiid if you knew you got additional value in the form of a veteran who can help now.

This was from Insider. I'm probably leaning Wiggins but I'm still intrigued by the thought of moving down and picking up a player and still taking Embiid. Like if we could get 4, 12, and Afflalo I really like that cause it frees up the ability to make some other trades. We could still get Exum at #4 if Embiid is taken, we could perhaps get Randall, Saric or McDermott at #12.

[BishopMVP]

Rumors persist that if the Celtics don't land 'Melo or Love, they might move Rondo for that #7 pick. Rondo's 28, his contract is expiring and he may not want to go through a rebuilding phase.I think I'd do that. I just don't trust Rondo to be an elite player that deserves a max contract, and if we really liked Smart as much as reports say (or Orlando/Utah pass on Exum and he falls to us at 6), I could easily see us doubling up with a guard and one of Gordon/Vonleh/Randle at 6/7 (I really don't see Embiid dropping to 6 at all, but obviously would snap him up in a heartbeat). Maybe we could even get the Lakers to throw in a future #1 the way they're being run.

The rumor on Saric now has him signing a 2-year deal with a 3rd year player option with a Turkish team, meaning he'll probably fall to us at 17 unless ATL picks him at 15 or a surprise happens. I know plenty of fans would be dissapointed if we picked a guy who wouldn't be here for 2 years, but I actually love that option. The way good players on rookie deals are the 2nd most valuable asset in the league (after true max-level players) having him develop for 2 more seasons before we get our 4 years of cheap control would be great imo. Or it just gives us another trade asset that costs $0.

Although who knows - there are still 5-6 other options at 17 that have potential. Nurkic, Capela, James Young, Kyle Anderson, Ennis, maybe Zach LaVine. I don't really want another low-ceiling player like a Shabazz Napier or a TJ Warren, even if I love his old-man game that would be a natural successor to Paul Pierce's :)

Thursday's gonna be great. US-Germany at noon and then 5 hours of NBA draft speculation.

[whomario]

The caveat here: If he stays for the full 3 years, he is not bound by the rookie scale at all. Meaning: While no other NBA team can sign him, whichever team drafts him still has to compete with European teams to sign him in 2017.

rumour posted by a san antonio journalist about Duncan declining his 10 mio player option and instead signing a new 2 year contract, presumably allowing the Spurs more cap room this summer. If true, the gift that keeps on giving. Let´s just say that Klinsmann would not have a problem with that contract decision ;)

[Neuqua]

Yep, that's what the Bulls are dealing with Mirotic now. If he were to be paid by rookie scale he'd be here as a no brainer. But now it looks like he's looking for a contract close to $10million/year.

[whomario]

Yep, that's what the Bulls are dealing with Mirotic now. If he were to be paid by rookie scale he'd be here as a no brainer. But now it looks like he's looking for a contract close to $10million/year.

I was looking for an example but seemed to only find 2nd rounders (who, to my knowledge are eligible for bigger contracts immediately) :)

[stevew]

Tiago splitter was this way. Made about 10-12 million on his first 3 year contract and was an unrestricted FA afterwards.

[nol]

Yeah, I don't see that one happening. Klay's performance + youth makes him more valuable than the #7 by a long shot.

This trade would only be done to improve the Warriors' offer for Love e.g. Minnesota knows Thompson would have little interest in signing there and is instead looking for an offer along the lines of Lee, Barnes and the #7 pick.

The deal has little upside for the Lakers. They've been interested in Love for so long that they wouldn't just facilitate his trade to a division rival like that; they want him to stay until free agency so they can make their run at him. Even if you look at if from the perspective of "Kobe's calling all the shots and he wants veteran help instead of a rookie," the Lakers would be trying to get someone at any other position for the pick.

[whomario]

Tiago splitter was this way. Made about 10-12 million on his first 3 year contract and was an unrestricted FA afterwards.

I blame the world cup for my lapses :p

[RainMaker]

This trade would only be done to improve the Warriors' offer for Love e.g. Minnesota knows Thompson would have little interest in signing there and is instead looking for an offer along the lines of Lee, Barnes and the #7 pick.

The deal has little upside for the Lakers. They've been interested in Love for so long that they wouldn't just facilitate his trade to a division rival like that; they want him to stay until free agency so they can make their run at him. Even if you look at if from the perspective of "Kobe's calling all the shots and he wants veteran help instead of a rookie," the Lakers would be trying to get someone at any other position for the pick.

Thompson would be a RFA. He wouldn't be in a position to dictate where he plays. If the Wolves want him, he'll be playing in Minnesota for years to come.

[nol]

Thompson would be a RFA. He wouldn't be in a position to dictate where he plays. If the Wolves want him, he'll be playing in Minnesota for years to come.

Yeah, just like how Kevin Love is under contract for another year in Minnesota :rolleyes:

[Arles]

Love is unrestricted next year. If Klay wants to get paid, he has to resign with Minny for 3+ years.

[RainMaker]

Love is unrestricted, Klay will not be. As long as the Wolves are willing to match, he'll be playing for the Wolves.

[nol]

And why is having the right to match a big offer for a player who wouldn't be pumped to be playing for you in the first place supposed to be a huge get? If the Timberwolves have some magic "We have your contract so you have to play your best and do whatever we say" card they can play, they might as well use it to make Love stay this season because they'd have a decent chance of being successful running it back with the same team as long as there's enough in-house improvement from their other players.

[murrayyyyy]

I don't know how the hell anyone can take a chance on Embiid.

76ers are in a horrible spot. It looked like they would have Parker or Wigging fall in their lap and now their only position is trying to deal the 3rd pick. I'd almost deal down to someone looking for Embiid or Exum. Maybe see if Phoenix will move their 3-1sts (which right now are slotted as McDermott (PF), Jusuf Nurkic (c) and Jordan Adams (SG)). Can the Suns keep all their picks this year? Thought they had 11 players under contract right now(I know a ton are on the cheap).

[Subby]

I would be salivating at the prospect of Embiid falling to me. Unless you are under intense pressure to win now, it seems like you are getting killer value in that scenario.

[murrayyyyy]

I would be salivating at the prospect of Embiid falling to me. Unless you are under intense pressure to win now, it seems like you are getting killer value in that scenario.

Bad foot and bad back are bad things for a big man. I know that anyone can be injured but I don't know of a lot of big men who come back from foot injuries who have had back surgery.

[Blackadar]

Bad foot and bad back are bad things for a big man. I know that anyone can be injured but I don't know of a lot of big men who come back from foot injuries who have had back surgery.

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.

[RainMaker]

And why is having the right to match a big offer for a player who wouldn't be pumped to be playing for you in the first place supposed to be a huge get? If the Timberwolves have some magic "We have your contract so you have to play your best and do whatever we say" card they can play, they might as well use it to make Love stay this season because they'd have a decent chance of being successful running it back with the same team as long as there's enough in-house improvement from their other players.

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

I don't think keeping Love for this season is a bad move for the Timberwolves if these are the best deals on the table. They were unlucky last year and should be in the playoffs this season barring injuries.

[whomario]

Embiid did not have back surgery.

There just is no sample size to make any conclusion here. Even naming Yao and Ilgauskas or Lopez does nott make a trend, it is just 3 prominent examples.
Just going by "injured players" you do get players and big men coming back from bad injuries, Sullinger or Blake Griffin recently. Drummond also had a stress fracture on his back.

you can pick up a serviceable rotation player at any time, so unless you are in a position to win now, of course you will still highly consider drafting a guy like Embiid. I know the injuries are a big "if", but once you have teams expecting to stay bad for a few years or teams that can attract free agents, there´s worse things than "wasting" a pick on him.

interesting article/statistical analysis showing it is a serious risk but not a foregone conclusion that it can not work: http://hoopshabit.com/2014/06/23/serious-stress-fractures-nba-players/

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm beyond fine with moving Rondo.

He's fun to watch, but he's not going to want to stick around for a rebuild and he's really only worth a max contract if you surround him with good players who he can make better. If you're rebuilding you're not at that point yet presumably.

[murrayyyyy]

Embiid did not have back surgery.

Correct, back injury not surgery. Sorry about that. But he did have a stress fracture which would seem like a red flag to me in his back.

[Logan]

In hindsight, taking a guy with the issues Greg Oden had over someone like Kevin Durant made little sense. I can understand passing on Embiid for the high potential of Wiggins/Parker, but over someone like Marcus Smart, not so sure.

[whomario]

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

I don't think keeping Love for this season is a bad move for the Timberwolves if these are the best deals on the table. They were unlucky last year and should be in the playoffs this season barring injuries.

Timberwolves might be compareable to the Blazers. Both had a promising season marred by an incredibly terrible bench. (Rubio for example had a +- of + 13). Would be nice if the Wolves could improve that to "bad" at least.

[whomario]

yeah, as said it is of course an issue. But by all reports, his back was deemed fine though, wasn´t it ? As far as i know, minor stress fractures on the back really aren´t a big deal anymore unless there is structural problems. (and didn´t he get injured on a bad fall ?)

In hindsight, taking a guy with the issues Greg Oden had over someone like Kevin Durant made little sense. I can understand passing on Embiid for the high potential of Wiggins/Parker, but over someone like Marcus Smart, not so sure.

yeah, that´s the key here to me as well. And the Sixers for example would absolutely take him at 10 as well. Might even consider him at 3 if they think whoever is there at 10 is in their Top3/5 on their board.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I can't see Embiid lasting past 6 and I doubt he gets there.

[nol]

It doesn't matter if they are pumped to play for you or not as long as they are playing for you.

Try telling that to the Bobcats when they had Boris Diaw or the Mavericks when they had Lamar Odom or any other of the litany of instances where spending money on someone who doesn't have any other extrinsic motivation to play for your team in your city was a colossal waste.

Seriously name one successful team that was built on the principle of "if we offer more money he has to play for us and that's all that matters."

[nol]

Timberwolves might be compareable to the Blazers. Both had a promising season marred by an incredibly terrible bench. (Rubio for example had a +- of + 13). Would be nice if the Wolves could improve that to "bad" at least.

The difference is that the T-Wolves are closer to a point of no return (if not already there) where Love has burned his bridges and is definitely not coming back. Any complaining on Aldridge's part last year was just some generic "we need to get some help around me" stuff. There's been plenty more back-and-forth in the media between Love and Wolves management.

In FBPB3 world, of course you hold on to everyone and hope that some slightly better luck combined with the natural improvement from your younger players is good enough to result in a playoff run that makes Love more interested in re-signing (and you'd also hire a few assistant coaches with an A+ rating in shooting for Rubio), but in the real world, they're already at the "irreconcilable differences" stage.

[cartman]

Timmae exercised his option and will be back for an 18th season.

[BishopMVP]

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.Good thing (for Embiid!) Portland doesn't have a top 5 pick.

I'm with RD on this - Parker/Wiggins are back to 1-2, but a shot at Embiid is still worth more than a Noah Vonleh or Marcus Smart. If he's there at 6, no way the Celtics pass on him, but he's also not going to be there at 6.

[BillJasper]

Embiid is absolute risk/reward. A huge risk. But a massive reward. Are you getting Sam Bowie, Bill Walton or Greg Oden? Or are you getting Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan (both who has similar foot surgeries)?

It's a lot easier, politically, to take him at #5 or #6 and preach the "upside". But at #3 in a deep draft with a rim protector already on the roster? That's a much bigger question. Do you snag Exum? Do you try to move up to #2? Tough spot.

+1

[Matthean]

I'm with RD on this - Parker/Wiggins are back to 1-2, but a shot at Embiid is still worth more than a Noah Vonleh or Marcus Smart. If he's there at 6, no way the Celtics pass on him, but he's also not going to be there at 6.

If rumblings are too be true, Parker half-assed his workout with the Cavs implying he didn't want to go there but to the Bucks instead as where Wiggins was all in and stated he wants to go to Cleveland. Cavs seem to be leaning towards Parker since he's more NBA ready.

[BishopMVP]

If rumblings are too be true, Parker half-assed his workout with the Cavs implying he didn't want to go there but to the Bucks instead as where Wiggins was all in and stated he wants to go to Cleveland. Cavs seem to be leaning towards Parker since he's more NBA ready.I've seen that too, but not sure I understand why Parker would want to go to Milwaukee over Cleveland. Utah I could at least get due to the Mormon thing, but not sure what Milwaukee offers that Cleveland doesn't.

[Neuqua]

Not sure if it's a factor but Milwaukee is practically Chicago-north in most sports outside football. Being from Chicago, he may want to be 90 miles away from home.

[RainMaker]

Try telling that to the Bobcats when they had Boris Diaw or the Mavericks when they had Lamar Odom or any other of the litany of instances where spending money on someone who doesn't have any other extrinsic motivation to play for your team in your city was a colossal waste.

Seriously name one successful team that was built on the principle of "if we offer more money he has to play for us and that's all that matters."

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The NBA Draft does not allow players to pick what team they want to play for. They have to play for the team that chose them for a number of years. Players routinely take financial security to play less desirable locations. Everyone doesn't get to play for the max in Los Angeles or New York.

As for Odom and Diaw, both players cost themselves tens of millions of dollars. I also think those players are the extreme exceptions rather than the rule. I doubt Klay Thompson is going to put on 50 pounds and cost himself $50-$100 million in the future because he doesn't like the weather in Minnesota.

[nol]

I've seen that too, but not sure I understand why Parker would want to go to Milwaukee over Cleveland. Utah I could at least get due to the Mormon thing, but not sure what Milwaukee offers that Cleveland doesn't.

All I can think of is closer to home and more of a chance at being the go-to offensive guy. I suppose in the one-and-done era there isn't necessarily as much of a desire to team up with another Duke player in Irving.

Stuff like this makes me wish rookies just came in as free agents. You could argue that a bad organization would never be able to sign a difference maker that way, but all the skipping/tanking workouts and withholding medical information means that some teams are at a disadvantage when it comes to optimally improving themselves through the draft.

Players and agents would be less inclined to do stuff like that if a team were willing and able to outbid everyone else by a larger amount than whatever the difference in salary scale between the first and second pick is. And a team would be free to decide if they want to take a bigger risk on a top player or try to sign 2-3 lower-tier rookies instead.

[nol]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The NBA Draft does not allow players to pick what team they want to play for.

Exactly, which is why Minnesota would rather get the #7 pick in the draft in a package with Barnes and Lee than a player who, in the absolute best-case scenario where he's totally fine with going from being one of the Splash Brothers in Golden State to playing for a non-playoff team in Minnesota, takes no time at all to adjust to playing with new teammates, and makes a big offensive leap as he's guarded by the other team's best perimeter defender for the first time in his career, will be prohibitively expensive next season.

Golden State's had the guy for three years and is obviously divided on the prospect of paying him big money in the future, so it would be pretty foolish of Minnesota to expect to figure it out after one season.

As for Odom and Diaw, both players cost themselves tens of millions of dollars. I also think those players are the extreme exceptions rather than the rule.

Are you joking? There are enough bad contracts to do articles like this every single year: The Worst Contracts in the NBA « (http://grantland.com/features/bill-simmons-breaks-down-the-2014-worst-nba-contracts/) Then again, you thought Josh Smith to the Pistons was a great signing.

[Scarecrow]

I'm not basing Embiid's bust potential based on his injuries and inexperience, but the fact that KU is not exactly the school that creates star NBAers.

NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Kansas | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=kansas)

[RainMaker]

Exactly, which is why Minnesota would rather get the #7 pick in the draft in a package with Barnes and Lee than a player who, in the absolute best-case scenario where he's totally fine with going from being one of the Splash Brothers in Golden State to playing for a non-playoff team in Minnesota, takes no time at all to adjust to playing with new teammates, and makes a big offensive leap as he's guarded by the other team's best perimeter defender for the first time in his career, will be prohibitively expensive next season.

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal. Have you even been following this story?

Are you joking? There are enough bad contracts to do articles like this every single year The Worst Contracts in the NBA « (http://grantland.com/features/bill-simmons-breaks-down-the-2014-worst-nba-contracts/) Then again, you thought Josh Smith to the Pistons was a great signing.

Diaw went from making $9 million a year to $4 million a year. Odom went from making $8 million a year to nothing.

Your arguing that a player purposely playing bad will make them richer than purposely playing their best.

[Vince, Pt. II]

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal...

It became public last week that the Warriors were willing to include Thompson in the deal. They released something late last week that Kerr wasn't supporting the move, but that's likely just PR to keep Klay happy in case the trade doesn't work out. Kerr has publicly mentioned how much he would like to have a true stretch 4 to work in his offensive system, and David Lee isn't really that guy. Kevin Love is.

[RainMaker]

It became public last week that the Warriors were willing to include Thompson in the deal. They released something late last week that Kerr wasn't supporting the move, but that's likely just PR to keep Klay happy in case the trade doesn't work out. Kerr has publicly mentioned how much he would like to have a true stretch 4 to work in his offensive system, and David Lee isn't really that guy. Kevin Love is.

I don't know what their motivations are for leaks but there is zero chance Kevin Love is traded without Klay Thompson being a part of it.

If it's picks the Warriors want, Boston and Chicago have more to offer.

[nol]

All reports have been that Golden State is the one that doesn't want to part with Thompson and the Timberwolves will not trade Love without him being part of the deal. Have you even been following this story?

My initial point (that completely went over your head) was that the Lakers were obviously not reaching out independently to the Warriors to try to get Thompson for the seventh pick. Use your head - when a player's mentioned as possibly being traded to two separate teams, and neither deal makes perfect sense for the teams that would be acquiring him, you can be confident that his own team is open to parting with him. If you want to talk about not following the story, here's this: http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-lakers-klay-thompson-kevin-love-trade-20140620-story.html

The Lakers have been in discussions to acquire Golden State Warriors guard Klay Thompson for the seventh pick in next week’s draft, The Times has learned.

The deal would be part of a larger three-way trade that sends Minnesota All-Star power forward Kevin Love to the Warriors. The Lakers are interested but the deal has been put on hold because of a difference in opinion within the Warriors’ organization whether or not to keep Thompson while trying to obtain Love.

Your arguing that a player purposely playing bad will make them richer than purposely playing their best.

No, I'm arguing that the players who do that really don't cost themselves that much money over the course of their careers; they just spend a few seasons being grossly overpaid for their performance and then sign below market value on their next contract - it averages out. It's more harmful to a team that wastes cap room on them.

When it comes to losing money, wait and see what Diaw is offered and eventually signs for. If he gets $8-9 million per season he didn't cost himself "tens of millions of dollars," he got to go from a crappy team to one that won a championship and allowed him to best showcase his skills for this coming contract at the cost of playing 2 seasons slightly below his market value. Similarly, Klay Thompson could get traded to Minnesota, pout his way through the entire season, and there will still be a team that comes through with a $10+ million/year offer for him in restricted free agency that Minnesota would have to match.

[BishopMVP]

I'm not basing Embiid's bust potential based on his injuries and inexperience, but the fact that KU is not exactly the school that creates star NBAers.

NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Kansas | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=kansas)Clyde Lovellette, Jojo White, Danny Manning, Paul Pierce and that Wilt Chamberlain guy weren't bad... and guys who went to college 50 years ago are just as relevant as anything that happened even 3 years ago. By this impeccable logic, what stars has Duke produced recently? Do they get credit for Kyrie who played like 10 games, do we count JJ Redick and Gerald Henderson as stars, or do we go back to Grant Hill? What about Indiana - do Oladipo or Gordon qualify, or do you have to go back to Isaiah Thomas? Who did Kentucky have for the 15 years before Calipari got there - Rajon Rondo and Tayshaun Prince? Texas had 70 years with Chris Mihm as their best alum before producing Lamarcus Aldrige and Kevin Durant in back to back years - then went back to "producing" the Avery Bradley's and Tristan Thompson's of the world at best.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well played Bishop.

[RainMaker]

My initial point (that completely went over your head) was that the Lakers were obviously not reaching out independently to the Warriors to try to get Thompson for the seventh pick. Use your head - when a player's mentioned as possibly being traded to two separate teams, and neither deal makes perfect sense for the teams that would be acquiring him, you can be confident that his own team is open to parting with him. If you want to talk about not following the story, here's this: http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-lakers-klay-thompson-kevin-love-trade-20140620-story.html

The Lakers contacted the Warriors about making it a 3-way deal and were turned away. What does that have to do with the Timberwolves not wanting Klay Thompson? Where do you see in that article it saying the Wolves don't want Klay Thompson in a trade? As for whether the Wolves want Klay involved.

Twitter / Chris_Broussard: Source: No way GState trading ... (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/480899798930038784)
Twitter / Chris_Broussard: Serious game of chicken: source ... (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/480944049537712128)
Twitter / ramonashelburne: The Lakers have indeed called ... (https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/480375128660795392)
Twitter / BaxterHolmes: Source added that the deal ... (https://twitter.com/BaxterHolmes/status/481135022926491649)

No, I'm arguing that the players who do that really don't cost themselves that much money over the course of their careers; they just spend a few seasons being grossly overpaid for their performance and then sign below market value on their next contract - it averages out. It's more harmful to a team that wastes cap room on them.

When it comes to losing money, wait and see what Diaw is offered and eventually signs for. If he gets $8-9 million per season he didn't cost himself "tens of millions of dollars," he got to go from a crappy team to one that won a championship and allowed him to best showcase his skills for this coming contract at the cost of playing 2 seasons slightly below his market value. Similarly, Klay Thompson could get traded to Minnesota, pout his way through the entire season, and there will still be a team that comes through with a $10+ million/year offer for him in restricted free agency that Minnesota would have to match.

So playing poorly has no impact on a player's earnings. NBA salaries work on some cosmic yin-yang system where you can purposely play bad and you'll make just as much money if you purposely played good.

[nol]

So playing poorly has no impact on a player's earnings. NBA salaries work on some cosmic yin-yang system where you can purposely play bad and you'll make just as much money if you purposely played good.

Nope, they work on fairly normal economic principles. Ever heard of the winner's curse? If a team offers a player enough money that he simply cannot say no, it's extremely likely that said team is severely overvaluing that player. An overpaid player on a bad team then becomes a risk that most other teams want to stay away from, making them more likely to sign cheaply with a contender for their next contract now that there isn't some team willing to come through with a huge offer.

Classic RainMaker retreat by the way; start off saying that by paying for an NBA player's services, you automatically get his best effort no matter the circumstances, and the players that don't give it their all cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in future earnings. Then, when confronted with the fact that there are plenty of examples to the contrary and the financial impact for the players is minimal, go to "so you're saying it makes no difference at all?!?"

You are missing the extremely obvious point that NBA players aren't solely looking to maximize how much money they make. Any player that tanks his value to get out of playing for the team he's on either has enough money to be secure in taking a temporary hit in salary or has other teams lined up that are confident that a move to better circumstances would lead to increased production. At that point, it just becomes a slight compromise in earnings that plenty of players make by just signing cheaply to a contender in the first place.

All you need to know about the trade is this: trading Thompson and Lee for Love and Martin is a laughably bad offer and Minnesota says no. Adding Harrison Barnes to the deal is more reasonable, but Golden State says no because they want to get Love for something closer to the first offer. Now the teams are trying to find a deal with the general outline of: Thompson goes to the Lakers, the Warriors keep Barnes, Lee and #7 go to the T-Wolves, and Love goes to Golden State with salary filler all around to make the numbers match. As Vince and others have mentioned, paying Thompson a bunch next season is not necessarily a slam-dunk move for the Warriors, and they are just saying that he's untouchable in the event that the deal falls through.

Also, Chris Broussard is far from being a credible source.

[stevew]

I was thinking Pierce and Chamberlain immediately. Then you have a bunch of good NBA role guys recently. But isn't the 1 and done thing new for Kansas? I'm shocked we didn't get a Harrisons/Wiggins/Randal/Embiid squad at Kentucky this year.

[stevew]

I hate broussard.

[RainMaker]

Nope, they work on fairly normal economic principles. Ever heard of the winner's curse? If a team offers a player enough money that he simply cannot say no, it's extremely likely that said team is severely overvaluing that player. An overpaid player on a bad team then becomes a risk that most other teams want to stay away from, making them more likely to sign cheaply with a contender for their next contract now that there isn't some team willing to come through with a huge offer.

Bad teams overpay players which is why the are bad. Good teams underpay players which is why they are good. This idea that players purposely play bad so that a bad team will pick them up for less money so they can parlay that into a bigger contract even farther down the road is insane.

If Klay Thompson goes to the Timberwolves he will play hard because he will want to get the highest possible offer on his next contract. Can you find examples of players who purposely tanked right before they were due a qualifying offer? It's unheard of. This is their first major contract.

Classic RainMaker retreat by the way; start off saying that by paying for an NBA player's services, you automatically get his best effort no matter the circumstances, and the players that don't give it their all cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in future earnings. Then, when confronted with the fact that there are plenty of examples to the contrary and the financial impact for the players is minimal, go to "so you're saying it makes no difference at all?!?"

Confronted with examples? You provided two examples of players who got lazy and saw their salaries dramatically drop. You picked the two worst examples ever. I'm sure you can find a guy here or there that got lazy and saw their salary go up (Raymond Felton maybe?), but Lamar Odom and Boris Diaw are not them. They cost themselves millions by their actions.

All you need to know about the trade is this: trading Thompson and Lee for Love and Martin is a laughably bad offer and Minnesota says no. Adding Harrison Barnes to the deal is more reasonable, but Golden State says no because they want to get Love for something closer to the first offer. Now the teams are trying to find a deal with the general outline of: Thompson goes to the Lakers, the Warriors keep Barnes, Lee and #7 go to the T-Wolves, and Love goes to Golden State with salary filler all around to make the numbers match. As Vince and others have mentioned, paying Thompson a bunch next season is not necessarily a slam-dunk move for the Warriors, and they are just saying that he's untouchable in the event that the deal falls through.


"Team" aren't trying to find a deal with that. The Lakers are. Every article (including the one you posted) said this was the Lakers trying to get involved to get Klay Thompson on their team.

You claimed that the Wolves don't want Klay Thompson. That is the point of contention. And you haven't found a single thing that mentions that as being the case. Just because the Lakers want Klay Thompson doesn't mean the Wolves don't .

[sterlingice]

I was thinking Pierce and Chamberlain immediately. Then you have a bunch of good NBA role guys recently. But isn't the 1 and done thing new for Kansas? I'm shocked we didn't get a Harrisons/Wiggins/Randal/Embiid squad at Kentucky this year.

Self has done it in the past but more sparingly. Ben McLemore was a 1-and-done last year and there have been some others in the past few years like Xavier Henry and Josh Selby but it was, at most, one per year. Embiid was not necessarily expected to be a one-and-done but played himself up to that. I think most scouts would have pegged Wayne Selden to be the 2nd one-and-done at the start of the season but he's coming back and Embiid is still all but a lock for the lottery.

SI

[korme]

What was Josh Selby thinking

[nol]

Bad teams overpay players which is why the are bad. Good teams underpay players which is why they are good. This idea that players purposely play bad so that a bad team will pick them up for less money so they can parlay that into a bigger contract even farther down the road is insane.

Do the math for Boris Diaw. He's the most egregious exception according to you, so the difference in earnings should be the greatest. If he signs for 2 years, $18 million this summer, he'll have earned $27 million from 2012-13 to 2015-16 ($6.75 million per year). His previous contract, which took him through the prime of his career, was 5 years, $45 million. Even if you make the ridiculous assumption that some team would have paid 29-33 year old Diaw the exact same $9 million/year that he made from age 25 to 29 if he played out the string in Charlotte, he made - again, at most - $2.25 million less per season (minus like $1 million for his buyout) to go from the worst team in NBA history to at least two Finals appearances while playing on a team with his best childhood friend.

This will happen to OJ Mayo in a couple seasons. The Bucks offered him $2-3 million per year more than any other team, so he went there and has sucked. If he signs a one-year deal for $2 million to be a shooter off the bench for a contender once his Bucks deal runs out, he'll have earned $26 million in 4 years - you can even forget about parlaying that last season into a future deal, that's flat-out more than what he'd have earned over taking a four-year deal from a team he didn't end up signing with. And if you want to get all "the players are simply automatons looking to increase their net worth," about it, there's probably something to be said about the time value of money and the benefit of having the $8 million per season come sooner rather than making a smoother curve of annual income.

If Klay Thompson goes to the Timberwolves he will play hard because he will want to get the highest possible offer on his next contract. Can you find examples of players who purposely tanked right before they were due a qualifying offer? It's unheard of. This is their first major contract.

It's not even possible to tank a qualifying offer because at four years in, a player's either shown nothing and is on his way out of the league (or at least is on the way to becoming a journeyman benchwarmer) or has shown enough talent that there will be at least one team willing to pay. Eric Gordon did not like being traded from Los Angeles to New Orleans and did his best to tank his way out (his play took a clear step backwards and he sat out pretty much his entire first season there while rehabbing a knee injury at a very leisurely pace), and New Orleans still ended signing him to a huge extension.

Klay Thompson has shown enough so far that he could do anything next season short of completely going off the reservation Larry Sanders-style, and at least one team will still give him a big offer with the hopes that a change of scenery will help.


You claimed that the Wolves don't want Klay Thompson. That is the point of contention. And you haven't found a single thing that mentions that as being the case. Just because the Lakers want Klay Thompson doesn't mean the Wolves don't .

I claimed that Thompson/Lee for Martin/Love is an absolute Hail Mary offer put forward by the Warriors that would have never been taken remotely seriously by Minnesota, rather than some offer that made the Warriors ponder long and hard before saying "no, we just can't bear to let go of Klay Thompson." Thompson, who will be making big money next season, isn't so much better than Kevin Martin to justify the massive downgrade from Kevin Love to David Lee. Do I have to cite a source for why every single delusional trade has no chance of happening?

The Wolves would apparently be fine with Thompson, Barnes and Lee, but the Warriors are trying to play hardball with them. The only reason there is any conversation at all between the Warriors and the Lakers (beyond the Warriors saying LOL no) is if the Warriors believe getting that pick for Thompson will make the rest of the package they have to send to Minnesota smaller than Lee+Barnes.

[nol]

Self has done it in the past but more sparingly. Ben McLemore was a 1-and-done last year and there have been some others in the past few years like Xavier Henry and Josh Selby but it was, at most, one per year. Embiid was not necessarily expected to be a one-and-done but played himself up to that. I think most scouts would have pegged Wayne Selden to be the 2nd one-and-done at the start of the season but he's coming back and Embiid is still all but a lock for the lottery.

SI

Other than Memphis/Kentucky being outliers under Calipari, all the big schools have been relatively equal-opportunity when it comes to recruiting one-and-done players. There have only been 70 such players in the past nine years, so for one school to not have any of the first ~20 before Xavier Henry isn't totally out of the ordinary. Even a school like Duke wasn't failing to produce one-and-done players at first due to a lack of trying or a disinterest in recruiting them; someone like Kyle Singler would have left after his freshman year if he had performed up to preseason expectations.

Embiid shot up so rapidly that by the time he committed to a school, he was definitely going to be one-and-done, but Selden was thought to join them as KU's 3rd lottery pick this season. Some people were hyping Embiid over Wiggins before KU had played a game.

Here's a fun list of all the one-and-dones over the years: Examining the results of college basketball's one-and-done era (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140411/nba-one-and-done-history-zach-lavine/) Since the rule was changed, the complete list of teams that have had more than one one-and-done player in a season before this year: 2007 Georgia Tech, 2007 Ohio State, 2008 Kansas State, 2011 Texas, 2012 Florida, 2010-2013 Kentucky. Kansas and Kentucky are the only two teams to join the club this season, so it's still pretty rarefied air if John Calipari isn't your coach.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>LeBron James' agent Rich Paul has told Heat LeBron will exercise early termination option</p>&mdash; Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/statuses/481427294645657600">June 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Let's where this goes.

[korme]

Well we all knew this would happen. Just what kind of deals will they put back together.

[Vince, Pt. II]

What happens when Wade and Bosh don't opt out and they're still on the books for $40M to the pair of them? The Heat could be really freaking terrible next season.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Wade would be foolish to opt out, I would think - would Riley even bring him back?

[SackAttack]

I just want to see James do another "Decision" special this year.

Just for the lulz.

[BillJasper]

I just want to see James do another "Decision" special this year.

Just for the lulz.

I would hope James is smart enough not to go down that road again.

[SackAttack]

Oh, I fully expect that he won't do it a second time.

Doesn't stop me hoping I can pop some corn.

[Chief Rum]

It's funny, because I hated the whole idiocy of the Decision. But, yes, I totally want him to do it again, because at this point, I think he would just be trolling the world. And I'll always get behind that move.

[murrayyyyy]

What happens when Wade and Bosh don't opt out and they're still on the books for $40M to the pair of them? The Heat could be really freaking terrible next season.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Bosh opt out also. Wade is the one they need to worry about. It's not like they all were cheap last year. Bosh and James were 19 against the cap last year and Wade was 18.5. They will be at 48.8 if Bosh doesn't opt out and 28.3 if he does opt out. Plenty of room to put some pieces together. They are "slotted" to have a shot at Cleanthony Early or Jordan Adams which is much better then I bet they thought they would get in this draft.

They can also acquire picks if some of the players opt out end up in a sign and trade deal like when James came to Miami.

[stevew]

Wade would be foolish to opt out, I would think - would Riley even bring him back?

He opts out if and only if another contract is in front of him.

Wade is all beat to hell and shit but if he can regain his fitness a Wade/Bosh team would make the playoffs in the east. Wade goes to Germany in the off season and comes back for another good season.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Here's a great article from Zach Lowe (http://grantland.com/features/kevin-love-klay-thompson-golden-state-warriors/) about the Love-Thompson trade. He comes off as solidly in favor of the Warriors giving up Klay for Love.

[ColtCrazy]

So if LeBron goes back to Cleveland does all that hate against him just go away? I mean Irving-James-Wiggins/Parker isn't a bad tandem in the East.

[nol]

He opts out if and only if another contract is in front of him.

Wade is all beat to hell and shit but if he can regain his fitness a Wade/Bosh team would make the playoffs in the east. Wade goes to Germany in the off season and comes back for another good season.

That would honestly depend on how many teams in the East are trying to tank. Even if you replaced James' salary with 2-3 other free agents, .500 would be a stretch unless Wade was somehow restored to his effectiveness of a couple years ago while also being able to play in 70+ games rather than 50.

But yeah, the opting out doesn't really signify anything other than a motion to get the ball rolling for the other Heat guys to discuss their contracts.

[sterlingice]

Here's a great article from Zach Lowe (http://grantland.com/features/kevin-love-klay-thompson-golden-state-warriors/) about the Love-Thompson trade. He comes off as solidly in favor of the Warriors giving up Klay for Love.

I love reading Zach Lowe. I went back and saw another article he had linked to in that one about role players, too

SI

[Scarecrow]

Miami has a new 'Big 3': THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE MIAMI HEAT (http://www.nba.com/heat/)

[nol]

Miami has a new 'Big 3': THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE MIAMI HEAT (http://www.nba.com/heat/)

Haha this is always a bad time of year for NBA team sites since it's technically tampering to show a player who isn't under contract. Pretty sure the Timberwolves' one currently features a gallery of best Flip Saunders memories.

[stevew]

I don't think LeBron alone to Cleveland will happen. Perhaps LeBron and Melo together might happen but it's a pipe dream to think LeBron is just dying to play with (only) Kyrie Irving. I just want the whole thing to be over.

[nol]

Perhaps LeBron and Memo together might happen but it's a pipe dream to think LeBron is just dying to play with (only) Kyrie Irving.

It would be quite a sight to see Mehmet Okur coming out of retirement to run the pick-and-roll with LeBron :)

[stevew]

Spell check should have all these names in the dictionary

[korme]

Recommend listening to the Chad Ford/Simmons BS Report pod if you need any reason to get more excited for Thursday.

[murrayyyyy]

76ers say they have pulled back on the logo but it was still in the package released by SLD the other day so who knows(I never got email saying it was dead). Here is the Ben Franklin logo.

Twitter / JasonChadWolf: #Sixers source: Team will NOT ... (https://twitter.com/JasonChadWolf/status/481227929557291008)

[RainMaker]

That logo is amazing.

[murrayyyyy]

Who wins this rumored deal?

Cavs have some interest in the Magic's offer of Afflalo, No. 4 & No. 12 pick for No. 1

Am I crazy for thinking it would be the Cavs? I know Aaron makes 7.5 next year with player option after but is that enough to make you dump the #1 pick?

[murrayyyyy]

That logo is amazing.

The reactions is people either love it or hate it. I'm one of the few I know who loved it.

Sounds like they will still use for tees/hats which is what I knew it was being used for.

[murrayyyyy]

New Rockets secondary logo (eh)

http://i.imgur.com/w8jiRH2.png

New Warriors logos... (The SF confuses me since they play in Oakland)

http://i.imgur.com/1EHrJMH.jpg

Still can't find a published Kings or Celtics logo yet.

[bhlloy]

New Rockets secondary logo (eh)

http://i.imgur.com/w8jiRH2.png



cool... the human resources department gets a shout out

[stevew]

Who wins this rumored deal?

Cavs have some interest in the Magic's offer of Afflalo, No. 4 & No. 12 pick for No. 1

Am I crazy for thinking it would be the Cavs? I know Aaron makes 7.5 next year with player option after but is that enough to make you dump the #1 pick?

Absolutely. I need to dump Jared Jack and (maybe) Varejao in that deal though.

[nol]

Who wins this rumored deal?

Cavs have some interest in the Magic's offer of Afflalo, No. 4 & No. 12 pick for No. 1

Am I crazy for thinking it would be the Cavs? I know Aaron makes 7.5 next year with player option after but is that enough to make you dump the #1 pick?

If the Cavs were a normal team that isn't hell-bent on making the playoffs or chasing LeBron or whatever, that'd be a pretty good deal for them. I'm pretty high on Wiggins though, so it still wouldn't be crazy for them to turn it down and just draft him. I think for how much people talk about if he's "NBA ready" or not, he could at the bare minimum come in and average double figures without having any plays called for him and contribute some much-needed defense and rebounding from the wing.

Hell, if Dante Exum were available at 4 and I could trade Kyrie for something big, I'd love that deal. Then again, I'm not bound to the same timescale and owner pressures that GMs are.

edit: this is also why I've been saying from the start that Minnesota should have pushed Love onto Cleveland for a package including the first overall pick as soon as possible so they could be the team fielding these offers. There's no Knicks trade for Carmelo out there, so the Wolves aren't going to be playoff contenders once they trade him, and what better way to rebuild than to get the first pick in the draft without having to spend a season tanking for it?

[Vince, Pt. II]

New Rockets secondary logo (eh)

http://i.imgur.com/w8jiRH2.png

New Warriors logos... (The SF confuses me since they play in Oakland)

http://i.imgur.com/1EHrJMH.jpg

Still can't find a published Kings or Celtics logo yet.

Warriors ownership has been pushing hard to get an arena built in SF. Getting a lot of local resistance, but they're throwing money around, so who knows.

[nol]

Recommend listening to the Chad Ford/Simmons BS Report pod if you need any reason to get more excited for Thursday.

I thought this was gonna be pretty dumb but it was actually good. At the very least it's a good reminder to those who participated in the "This draft is the best ever no wait it sucks" hype/backlash cycle that somebody like Julius Randle as a high schooler could have very well been drafted above Anthony Bennett last year.

[BishopMVP]

I thought this was gonna be pretty dumb but it was actually good. At the very least it's a good reminder to those who participated in the "This draft is the best ever no wait it sucks" hype/backlash cycle that somebody like Julius Randle as a high schooler could have very well been drafted above Anthony Bennett last year.I'm sure Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith have learned their lesson :lol:

OOC - Where would Jahlil Okafor go in this draft?

[nol]

Top three unless he had a bad physical that showed he's likely to be injury-prone. He's considered a even bigger get for Duke than Parker was, and he could very well go no. 1 next year. It'd probably be hard to take him first in this draft since he hasn't played college competition, but it'd be a possibility depending on how workouts and stuff went. Milwaukee and Philadelphia aren't in any big hurry to get any better, so they wouldn't be discouraged from drafting a younger player.

[Qwikshot]

I thought this was gonna be pretty dumb but it was actually good. At the very least it's a good reminder to those who participated in the "This draft is the best ever no wait it sucks" hype/backlash cycle that somebody like Julius Randle as a high schooler could have very well been drafted above Anthony Bennett last year.

It was fine until they went off on a Kevin Love to Boston tangent.

[murrayyyyy]

OOC - Where would Jahlil Okafor go in this draft?

In this draft class? Based off order I don't know if he would go before 9 (someone would probably trade up for him in teh Celtics 6 spot) but I'm not sure that he is better than Randle or Gordon(I'm higher on Gordon than most people are).

Vonleh is the one I can't figure out in this draft. Turns it over too much for my liking.

[Chief Rum]

I'll admit, I am bullish on this draft. I think there could be as many as 10 All Stars in this one. I never bit on the backlash on this draft after the pendulum swung back from the early hype.

But I still don't like Embiid. I don't think he will end up an All Star.

[nol]

A trade between the Knicks and Mavericks is close to happening. Mavs get Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton and the Knicks will get Samuel Dalembert, Jose Calderon, and Shane Larkin.

[bhlloy]

That would have been an exciting trade 3 years ago. Looks like spare parts now

[vex]

Heat want Perkins (http://dailythunder.com/headlines/report-pat-riley-and-the-heat-want-kendrick-perkins/)

Site is dead from traffic right now, but...WOW.

[murrayyyyy]

Brousarrd needs to get off his trade machine on ESPN. (Does anyone like this guy?)

Reporting Harden for Anthony in sign and trade and then James for Lin and Asik making Anthony- James-Howard trio in Houston.

[RainMaker]

Brousarrd needs to get off his trade machine on ESPN. (Does anyone like this guy?)

Reporting Harden for Anthony in sign and trade and then James for Lin and Asik making Anthony- James-Howard trio in Houston.

Miami will not S&T Lebron.