Ebola

[sterlingice]

Haven't seen a thread about it and I guess there are some interesting angles.

First, it's the largest outbreak of Ebola in history so there's that. If there's going to be a disease that wipes us out ala Captain Trips, Ebola won't be it as it's not airborne and symptoms present pretty quickly. It tends to burn itself out pretty quickly, even with a high mortality rate of about 60% in this current outbreak.

Then there was the story about the doctor who died. There's also the doctor who came back to the US and put himself into self quarantine.

Then there's the other two who came back to Emory in the US. I believe there was some panic in some corners of the internet but, really, since it's a fluid transmitted disease, the risk to the US population is really minor. Plus, studying the disease here in good facilities will probably help us immensely in battling the disease.

Finally, there's the potential "miracle" drug they were given. That's getting to some interesting questions about clinical trials, time to market, etc
Ebola drug likely saved American patients - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/health/experimental-ebola-serum/index.html?sr=fb080414ebolaserum1030aStoryLink)

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

If there's going to be a disease that wipes us out ala Captain Tripps

Wild Cards FTW

[sterlingice]

I was going for The Stand, but you did just give me a few minutes of wikipedia reading to catch up

SI

[britrock88]

And the Onion was on top it, as usual:

Experts: Ebola Vaccine At Least 50 White People Away | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/)

[Edward64]

One of these days it'll mutate.

[mckerney]

First, it's the largest outbreak of Ebola in history so there's that. If there's going to be a disease that wipes us out ala Captain Trips, Ebola won't be it as it's not airborne and symptoms present pretty quickly.

Yet, it's not airborne yet. So there's still hope that Ebola could become Captain Trips.

[SackAttack]

One of these days it'll mutate.

That and there are entirely too many 'hold my beer' types in medical research. I'm just waiting for one of them to get an Ebola sample and make it airborne as a proof of concept.

Then we all die.

[miked]

I enjoy the politicians using it for more border control cries. That illegals via Africa are coming through the Mexico border and may be bringing Ebola to the US. As if we don't fly direct from many other cities in Africa and allow people in all the time.

[mckerney]

I enjoy the politicians using it for more border control cries. That illegals via Africa are coming through the Mexico border and may be bringing Ebola to the US. As if we don't fly direct from many other cities in Africa and allow people in all the time.

GOP lawmaker: Migrant kids might have Ebola | TheHill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/214305-gop-lawmaker-migrant-children-might-have-ebola)

[molson]

The Atlanta CDC always fucks shit up in novels and movies, but in real life, they've never once caused the extinction of humanity, so I'm inclined to trust their judgment on these things.

[jeff061]

The Atlanta CDC always fucks shit up in novels and movies, but in real life, they've never once caused the extinction of humanity, so I'm inclined to trust their judgment on these things.

All well and good, I just don't understand the point of bringing people back at all. What's the gain? Can't we fly the meds to them, rather than the other way around?

[path12]

Ebola? I hardly knowa!

Seriously though, ebola? I'm against it.

[flounder]

All well and good, I just don't understand the point of bringing people back at all. What's the gain? Can't we fly the meds to them, rather than the other way around?

There is no medication for it. The only thing you can do to improve survival is to provide intensive supportive care (blood transfusions, IV fluids, etc.). We're much better able to provide that level of intensive care here than they are in Africa.

[Shepp]

The Atlanta CDC always fucks shit up in novels and movies, but in real life, they've never once caused the extinction of humanity, so I'm inclined to trust their judgment on these things.

In the last two months they exposed about 80 workers to anthrax because of lax procedures. They also recently located live small pox cultures in an abandoned storage area. The lab director resigned over all of this about a week ago. Please forgive me if my faith in the CDC is fairly low at this point.

[molson]

In the last two months they exposed about 80 workers to anthrax because of lax procedures. They also recently located live small pox cultures in an abandoned storage area. The lab director resigned over all of this about a week ago. Please forgive me if my faith in the CDC is fairly low at this point.

Well I'll tell you what, if Ebola wipes out even a small portion of the U.S. population, I'll buy you a coke.

[cartman]

Location of the CDC Center where the Ebola patient was taken: Atlanta
Headquarters of Coca-Cola: Atlanta

Ask for a Pepsi, Shepp :D

[Shepp]

I don't understand how anyone can look at the decision to bring these folks back here for treatment and think its a good idea. The doctor and the nurse in question were treating Ebola patients in Africa. I assume they were wearing protective gear and trained in dealing with the infected,yet somehow they got it themselves. Now I'm supposed to blindly trust the assurances of the folks at Emory Hospital because they are highly trained and using protective equipment? Not to mention the fact that the CDC's safety record has not been stellar recently.

Why could they not ship the equipment they needed to treat these two over to Africa instead of bringing them here? If they absolutely had to bring them here. Why could they not treat them in a more remote location? Why take such a ridiculous risk, no matter how small the chance of failure, when you don't have to?

[miked]

The facilities and equipment are so much better here than in the middle of Africa, I'm not sure what else we can say to really help you understand. Flying people over there is a much greater risk (because of facilities and care) than bringing them here. It's actually more of a risk to the patient to fly.

And the CDC found the smallpox samples in an NIH lab storage that had been there for 50-60 years (in some long closed place). So blame the NIH.

[miked]

Plus, you live in Atlanta. You are probably 1,000,000x more likely to die in a car accident or stroke than you are to catch Ebola.

[molson]

There's a difference between blind trust and just assuming that you know more than the experts. I'm far from an expert, but have read up some, and there's quite a few reasons it's almost impossible for Ebola to spread in developed countries. And that's without the precautions being taken here. And I'm sure the CDC appreciates the opportunity to study these incidents first-hand to further develop effective treatments.

[mckerney]

In the last two months they exposed about 80 workers to anthrax because of lax procedures. They also recently located live small pox cultures in an abandoned storage area. The lab director resigned over all of this about a week ago. Please forgive me if my faith in the CDC is fairly low at this point.

Don't forget them recently mislabeling and misplacing an dangerous strain of bird flu back in May.

[BishopMVP]

There is no medication for it. The only thing you can do to improve survival is to provide intensive supportive care (blood transfusions, IV fluids, etc.). We're much better able to provide that level of intensive care here than they are in Africa.Well, other than the drug they just gave those 2 patients.

[Shepp]

There's a difference between blind trust and just assuming that you know more than the experts. I'm far from an expert, but have read up some, and there's quite a few reasons it's almost impossible for Ebola to spread in developed countries. And that's without the precautions being taken here. And I'm sure the CDC appreciates the opportunity to study these incidents first-hand to further develop effective treatments.

I'm sure doctor Brantley was considered an expert and now he has it himself. From what I've read they suspect he and the nurse contacted it in the wash-down room of the facility they were working. No matter how much of an expert someone is they are still prone to make mistakes. I don't think it takes a very vivid imagination to see something similar happening here.

[molson]

I'm sure doctor Brantley was considered an expert and now he has it himself. From what I've read they suspect he and the nurse contacted it in the wash-down room of the facility they were working. No matter how much of an expert someone is they are still prone to make mistakes. I don't think it takes a very vivid imagination to see something similar happening here.

There's a difference between a charity clinic in the heart of ebola county and the CDC's facilities, or really, any facilities in North America. Even in the former, it's pretty tough to get infected. (There are a lot of U.S. and European volunteers there, and how many have gotten infected?) The facilities are hugely different as is the structure - it's easy for an individual to become complacent. It's not an airborne disease and it's not possible for it to spontaneously become one in these patients. It's possible for HIV to be transmitted in poor medical facilities in Africa, that doesn't mean even a typical North American hospital can't handle the risk, even though it is still theoretically possible for HIV to spread in American hospitals too.

Edit: This is a pretty good sourced breakdown of the reality v. the paranoia (i.e., the Donald Trump camp).

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/

[molson]

Flying people over there is a much greater risk (because of facilities and care) than bringing them here. It's actually more of a risk to the patient to fly.



They planes could theoretically crash into a house and kill the people inside. Planes have crashed into houses before.

[BillJasper]

If Ebola gets me, then it was obviously my time to go.

[Shepp]

There's a difference between a charity clinic in the heart of ebola county and the CDC's facilities, or really, any facilities in North America.

If any facility in North America will do, then why wouldn't it be more prudent to treat them somewhere less populated than metro Atlanta? I'm not questioning the low chances of transmission. I'm wondering why we should be taking unnecessary risks.

[sterlingice]

I don't understand how anyone can look at the decision to bring these folks back here for treatment and think its a good idea. The doctor and the nurse in question were treating Ebola patients in Africa. I assume they were wearing protective gear and trained in dealing with the infected,yet somehow they got it themselves. Now I'm supposed to blindly trust the assurances of the folks at Emory Hospital because they are highly trained and using protective equipment? Not to mention the fact that the CDC's safety record has not been stellar recently.

Why could they not ship the equipment they needed to treat these two over to Africa instead of bringing them here? If they absolutely had to bring them here. Why could they not treat them in a more remote location? Why take such a ridiculous risk, no matter how small the chance of failure, when you don't have to?

I'm going to guess you can't ship a giant electron microscope to Africa or any number of diagnostic tools we have that are large. The science is the valuable thing from bringing them back here. There's nothing you can bring to a place bad enough to have Ebola spreading that will give 1/10th the knowledge we gain from this.

SI

[sterlingice]

If any facility in North America will do, then why wouldn't it be more prudent to treat them somewhere less populated than metro Atlanta? I'm not questioning the low chances of transmission. I'm wondering why we should be taking unnecessary risks.

Wasn't the deal that they took them to 1 of 4 facilities that have the highest level of containment to minimize the risk?

Like anything, there is no way to shrink anything down to 0% risk. Getting out of bed in the morning has inherent risks. But I think the risks to Atlanta are less than the risks to everyone else if it's not studied in a first world setting.

SI

[molson]

If any facility in North America will do, then why wouldn't it be more prudent to treat them somewhere less populated than metro Atlanta? I'm not questioning the low chances of transmission. I'm wondering why we should be taking unnecessary risks.

I didn't say any facility "will do", but the risk of Ebola transferring from any North American hospital into the general population is minuscule. But in terms of treatment, chance of survival, and opportunity to learn about the disease and treatment, surely the CDC and associated hospital is the best place. This is a situation of interest to the United States government. It's odd to me that you're worried about the risk of ebola running amok in Atlanta but you'd rather have a rural North Dakota hospital handling things. In reality, it's not going to spread in either place, but if you think that's a real risk, don't you want the experts on infectious diseases handling things?

[larrymcg421]

They better not let Ryan White come to my son's school!

[DaddyTorgo]

I didn't say any facility "will do", but the risk of Ebola transferring from any North American hospital into the general population is minuscule. But in terms of treatment, chance of survival, and opportunity to learn about the disease and treatment, surely the CDC and associated hospital is the best place. This is a situation of interest to the United States government. It's odd to me that you're worried about the risk of ebola running amok in Atlanta but you'd rather have a rural North Dakota hospital handling things. In reality, it's not going to spread in either place, but if you think that's a real risk, don't you want the experts on infectious diseases handling things?

It's classic NIMBY.

[BishopMVP]

I didn't say any facility "will do", but the risk of Ebola transferring from any North American hospital into the general population is minuscule. But in terms of treatment, chance of survival, and opportunity to learn about the disease and treatment, surely the CDC and associated hospital is the best place. This is a situation of interest to the United States government. It's odd to me that you're worried about the risk of ebola running amok in Atlanta but you'd rather have a rural North Dakota hospital handling things. In reality, it's not going to spread in either place, but if you think that's a real risk, don't you want the experts on infectious diseases handling things?There's also the fact that a large percentage of the reason the disease is spreading is people who don't understand the necessity for quarantine and, quite frankly, disposing of the bodies correctly and not trying to give them a "traditional" burial. I'd be a lot more worried about random people who either don't know they have symptoms or are trying to hide them (like the American who died in Nigeria, or the potential case in NYC) than from health care workers who self-quarantined themselves.

[ISiddiqui]

FWIW, most Atlantans think it is a VERY good idea to bring the ebola patients to Emory, which is literally across the street from the CDC (well, Emory hospital is more like 2 blocks, but the parking deck I used for my first year at law school was right across from the CDC south entrance :)).

[JPhillips]

They are American citizens working a humanitarian mission. They deserve the best treatment we can provide.

[ISiddiqui]

All well and good, I just don't understand the point of bringing people back at all. What's the gain? Can't we fly the meds to them, rather than the other way around?

Aside from the better able to treat them thing, if you don't think the CDC is relishing this as a better opportunity to study the disease with tech that is not cost effective to be shipped over the Africa, you are nuts.

[bhlloy]

I'm sure the top doctors in the US aren't exactly queuing up to go to West Africa to treat him either.

[Dutch]

And the Onion was on top it, as usual:

Experts: Ebola Vaccine At Least 50 White People Away | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/)

GOP lawmaker: Migrant kids might have Ebola | TheHill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/214305-gop-lawmaker-migrant-children-might-have-ebola)

The Atlanta CDC always fucks shit up in novels and movies, but in real life, they've never once caused the extinction of humanity, so I'm inclined to trust their judgment on these things.

But what if the CDC hires white people that vote Republican? I'm sure that will scare the fuck out of the liberals.

They are American citizens working a humanitarian mission. They deserve the best treatment we can provide.

I'm sure the top doctors in the US aren't exactly queuing up to go to West Africa to treat him either.

The Top Doctors in the US should be willing to take their talents to Africa to help unless they are damned sure they won't fuck this up. And if they are white doctors and vote Republican...how can we trust them!? :)

[bhlloy]

Been drinking much?

[Edward64]

They are American citizens working a humanitarian mission. They deserve the best treatment we can provide.

I agree but up to a practical point ...

If it wasn't ebola but something that is airborne, we wouldn't bring them back.

[path12]

They are American citizens working a humanitarian mission. They deserve the best treatment we can provide.

What he said.

[molson]

I agree but up to a practical point ...

If it wasn't ebola but something that is airborne, we wouldn't bring them back.

They wouldn't do it publicly because people are freaking out about even this, but, I'm sure they could transfer people with infectious airborne diseases, and I bet they have.

[Julio Riddols]

I contracted it in Sierra Leone
Where there's lots of rain
and people got the EBOLA, E-B-O-L-A ebola...

I got a fever, started crapping my pants
I am in constant pain and I have no chance
With the ebola, E-B-O-L-A ebola, no, no no not ebola

Well, for whatever reason they're letting me fly
I'm gonna take my disease to the states and die
from the ebola, E-B-O-L-A, ebola..

Well, I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why they think they can help me but I hope they can
with my ebola, E-B-O-L-A ebola..

Well, I'm in such pain I don't wanna survive
Wish Dr. K could take my life
This viral disease has got me on my knees
in a place designed by the CDC

[DanGarion]

All well and good, I just don't understand the point of bringing people back at all. What's the gain? Can't we fly the meds to them, rather than the other way around?

They are Americans. Shouldn't they be given the best treatment possible from their country?

[DanGarion]

If any facility in North America will do, then why wouldn't it be more prudent to treat them somewhere less populated than metro Atlanta? I'm not questioning the low chances of transmission. I'm wondering why we should be taking unnecessary risks.

You do understand that ebola isn't an airborne virus right?

[nol]

They wouldn't do it publicly because people are freaking out about even this, but, I'm sure they could transfer people with infectious airborne diseases, and I bet they have.

Well, if it were as bad as Ebola and an airborne disease, they wouldn't do it, but if there were a disease with those characteristics, humankind would have been wiped out long before we developed the technology to be discussing it on computers.

When characterizing a disease's biosafety threat as level 1-4, both severity of symptoms and ease of transmission are considered. Ebola-like hemorrhagic fevers as well as smallpox characterize much of level 4. Smallpox is airborne and much, much more infectious than ebola, but much easier to treat (vaccination soon enough after exposure often takes care of it, and even if not the fatality rate is about half that of Ebola's).

In other words, yes they've likely transferred people with infectious airborne diseases before because the symptoms of most airborne diseases are not severe enough to cause a widespread panic.

For comparison's sake, lab work involving isolating HIV from blood samples is biosafety level 2+. That requires doing stuff like locking the room to prevent non-certified personnel from entering, only working with the samples from behind a pressurized hood, wearing a lab coat, multiple pairs of gloves, and eye protection while disposing of those and all other items used in a biohazard waste container. That sounds intense, but compare that to: The entrance and exit of a level four biolab will contain multiple showers, a vacuum room, an ultraviolet light room, and other safety precautions designed to destroy all traces of the biohazard. Multiple airlocks are employed and are electronically secured to prevent both doors from opening at the same time. All air and water service going to and coming from a biosafety level 4 (or P4) lab will undergo similar decontamination procedures to eliminate the possibility of an accidental release.

The facility is either in a separate building or in a controlled area within a building, which is completely isolated from all other areas of the building. A specific facility operations manual is prepared or adopted. Building protocols for preventing contamination often use negatively pressurized facilities, which, even if compromised, would severely inhibit an outbreak of aerosol pathogens.


Suffice it to say there aren't too many labs capable of that and most of them are federal facilities, so that answers the whole why Atlanta thing.

[sterlingice]

They are Americans. Shouldn't they be given the best treatment possible from their country?

That seems like an awfully high bar. Does that mean we fly back any American with any potentially life threatening disease in any, say, non-western European country?

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

They are Americans. Shouldn't they be given the best treatment possible from their country?

To what extent do we take that when they are in harm's way of their own accord?

[flounder]

Healthcare workers put themselves in harm's way of their own accord every day in this country. However, if we're going to start withholding care from them, that will probably change.

[flere-imsaho]

The Atlanta CDC always fucks shit up in novels and movies, but in real life, they've never once caused the extinction of humanity, so I'm inclined to trust their judgment on these things.

I officially love this post. :D

The Top Doctors in the US should be willing to take their talents to Africa to help unless they are damned sure they won't fuck this up. And if they are white doctors and vote Republican...how can we trust them!? :)

Are you suggesting a problem to ship white Republicans to the ebola-striken parts of West Africa? If so, this is a cause I can get behind, Dutch! :D

[Easy Mac]

They are Americans. Shouldn't they be given the best treatment possible from their country?

I think the attempts to block the ACA show that about 1/2 the country think that answer should always be no.

Of course a mistake can happen and Ebola could spread, but its just as likely if not more so that a patient somehow gets on a plane normally and brings it over here. In Greenville, 4 people died from a rare MRSA-like infection in the last few months. About 15 more people got quite sick. Turns out it was some sort of bacteria that had grown in the back of an ice machine that they used in one particular OR. So even though the surgeries turned out fine, they started getting sick months later

What I'm trying to say is, to worry about Ebola spreading is equal to worrying about dying from a rare, random bacteria spreading in a hospital. Random crap happens.

[Qwikshot]

I can't really believe this is a debate.

At some point, due to the ease of travel, we'll have an outbreak. It's guaranteed.

However, by bringing these two Americans who have given selflessly in Africa to care and treat (because as long as it's occurring somewhere else who cares amirite isolationists?)

The fact that they are being treated and in once instance successful allows for the thought that the CDC may have measures in place so that if such a perfect storm would occur, we'll have the knowledge of how to treat it. Win-win.

The very fact that we have anti-vaxxers in this country is annoying. We have probably one of the best groups to handle outbreaks. And while it's not a perfect organization since we're all human, one could say the same thing about flying on an airplane.

I think someone brought up Ryan White, and I think it's a good analogy. Most people during the AIDS crisis could care less because it was a group that most didn't care about or didn't agree with their lifestyle, so if it happens to them and not "us", no big deal right?!?

Ryan White showed to Americans that /anyone/ anyone could get it and in doing so, allowed for us to truly invest in measures to stem the spread of HIV.

So while some may say it's a liberal agenda, I say we're all in the same boat here and it's been too easy to say it's not our problem. I'm telling you that the more knowledge we have for prevention and treatment, the better off we'll be.

And to say, well just treat them over there, considering the number of people dying, I think it would be disastrous to say, well, we can save the white people but all you poor Africans, well, you are on your own.

[DanGarion]

To what extent do we take that when they are in harm's way of their own accord?

Let's turn it around. If it was someone that wasn't from the US that contracted a somewhat highly infectious disease here what would you as a US citizen want done? Would you prefer they were treated here or that they were sent back to where they belong.

[DanGarion]

http://i.imgur.com/S0tdIkS.png

[miked]

More people will die in the next few weeks of staph infections that they get in the hospital than will die of Ebola (MRSA). More people will catch MDR-TB in the next day or two than Ebola. We certainly like to get our panties in a bunch about pretty small things...thanks Obama.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let's turn it around. If it was someone that wasn't from the US that contracted a somewhat highly infectious disease here what would you as a US citizen want done? Would you prefer they were treated here or that they were sent back to where they belong.

I'm pretty sure THE (glaringly obvious) question here has to be:

Were they here legally?

;)

[sterlingice]

[http://i.imgur.com/S0tdIkS.png



I think George Orwell forgot fear when he used the term Two Minutes Hate

SI

[RainMaker]

I talked to my brother the other day about this. He's a biochemist who works with virus stuff (I don't really understand the specifics).

Anyways, he says the news on this in the U.S. is comically bad. He said that even if these people came over and no one knew they had Ebola, it is unlikely it would spread. You have to have some pretty serious human-to-human contact. And how we handle bodily fluids is much different from Africa. Plus it kills you quick enough that it's tough to spread to a lot of people.

Also it's highly unlikely to mutate to being airborne and have the same properties.

[sterlingice]

I talked to my brother the other day about this. He's a biochemist who works with virus stuff (I don't really understand the specifics).

Anyways, he says the news on this in the U.S. is comically bad. He said that even if these people came over and no one knew they had Ebola, it is unlikely it would spread. You have to have some pretty serious human-to-human contact. And how we handle bodily fluids is much different from Africa. Plus it kills you quick enough that it's tough to spread to a lot of people.

Also it's highly unlikely to mutate to being airborne and have the same properties.


Whose got two thumbs and basically said this in the OP? This guy! :D



SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

For those who felt things were ultra secure in the hands of the CDC, I give you this

Report: CDC scientist kept quiet about flu blunder | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/health/report-cdc-scientist-kept-quiet-about-flu-blunder/ng3hT)

[StLee]

Ignorance is everywhere. There is some Facebook debate whether or not this is the bar's doing or a competitor trying to ruin their business. Anyway, here's the sign below.

A bar in Korea:

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10541917_10154494574035436_1698953738308424138_n.jpg

[Karlifornia]

This bar probably only has a cash register, and at most, a credit card reader. To expect them to take Africans as payment is putting a lot of weight on their shoulders, Ebola notwithstanding.

[mckerney]

Oh boy.

Report: Armed men attack Liberia Ebola clinic, freeing patients - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-armed-men-attack-liberia-ebola-clinic-freeing-patients/)

Up to 30 patients were staying at the center and many of them fled at the time of the raid, said Nyenswah. Once they are located they will be transferred to the Ebola center at Monrovia's largest hospital, he said.

The attack comes just one day after a report of a crowd of several hundred local residents, chanting, 'No Ebola in West Point,' drove away a burial team and their police escort that had come to collect the bodies of suspected Ebola victims in a slum in the capital, Reuters reports.

West Point residents went on a "looting spree," stealing items from the clinic that were likely infected, said a senior police official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the press. The residents took medical equipment and mattresses and sheets that had bloodstains, he said. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids including blood, vomit, feces and sweat.

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh boy.

Report: Armed men attack Liberia Ebola clinic, freeing patients - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-armed-men-attack-liberia-ebola-clinic-freeing-patients/)

Idiots.

I know these governments aren't flush with cash, but I know they do some sort of educating of the populace with regard to Ebola right?

If so it really baffles me why these people are too stupid to listen.

[Easy Mac]

Shit done got real now

[Lathum]

Shit done got real now

?

[mckerney]

?

Probably talking about the man walking around free in the US with Ebola likely living in his testicles (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/health/ebola-patient-release/index.html?hpt=hp_t1). It's likely going to be the start of the Ebola zombie apocalypse.

[JediKooter]

That's nuts!

[Lathum]

Probably talking about the man walking around free in the US with Ebola likely living in his testicles (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/health/ebola-patient-release/index.html?hpt=hp_t1). It's likely going to be the start of the Ebola zombie apocalypse.

Lets hope he stays away from any sperm banks

[Easy Mac]

They let both of them out to undisclosed locations. Probably sent them to Ferguson.

[nol]

Idiots.

I know these governments aren't flush with cash, but I know they do some sort of educating of the populace with regard to Ebola right?

If so it really baffles me why these people are too stupid to listen.

This was my initial reaction, but I've seen too many stupid religious/plague comments about Ebola on my Facebook to be confident similar incidents wouldn't take place in America.

[Autumn]

That's nuts!

Okay, that got an actual, literal LOL out of me.

[JediKooter]

Sometimes they just line up with little to no effort. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

GOP cuts funding request to fight Ebola | TheHill (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/217115-gop-cuts-obamas-ebola-funding-request)

[cartman]

As the headline from Fark said, preventing you from bleeding from every orifice as all your internal organs liquefy is not in the Constitution.

[JPhillips]

I believe it should be left to the states. Why should New Yorkers have to pay for Mississippians' ebola protection?

[lighthousekeeper]

Great documentary by PBS:

PBS Frontline - Ebola Outbreak (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ebola-outbreak/)

Immense respect for all those at the scene providing aid, from the heroic doctors and nurses, to even the grave diggers and journalists.

[Butter]

All I can think about when I hear Ebola virus is the very old and only marginally funny SNL skit where David Spade imitates Jeff Foxworthy and says how you might be the Ebola virus.

The only video I found of that was on LiveLeak so I won't link to it, but... there you go. Hopefully I don't get the Ebola virus, because I don't want the last thing I think as I'm dying to be that sketch.

[DaddyTorgo]

Who had Dallas in the pool?

[The Jackal]

Oh boy.

[bhlloy]

FFS. My first thought is how much of an idiot do you have to be to come back from West Africa, start showing signs of Ebola and not go to a hospital for at least 3-4 days.

[DaddyTorgo]

FFS. My first thought is how much of an idiot do you have to be to come back from West Africa, start showing signs of Ebola and not go to a hospital for at least 3-4 days.

My second thought is "umm maybe we should have mandatory quarentines for the relatively small % of people coming in from West Africa these days"

[cartman]

http://www.fofc-bbcf.com/ebflow.jpg

[cartman]

Wait, the person with ebola arrived via plane? I was assured that the virus was going to arrive via the porous border with Mexico.

[Easy Mac]

We really should have let Rick Perry secede when he wanted.

[rowech]

http://www.fofc-bbcf.com/ebflow.jpg

With all due respect, I believe this is a crock. How do doctors, those who are absolutely following every single protocol end up contracting the disease? Accidents happen and I refused to believe that every case of this is contracted strictly from such things. Otherwise, we should never see those involved in treating the disease contract it.

[cartman]

I'd think doctors who were treating patients would be guaranteed to come into contact with an infectious person's bodily fluids, especially in the third world settings where the doctors got infected. No one at the Emory location was infected by the doctors they brought back for treatment.

[Lathum]

With all due respect, I believe this is a crock. How do doctors, those who are absolutely following every single protocol end up contracting the disease? Accidents happen and I refused to believe that every case of this is contracted strictly from such things. Otherwise, we should never see those involved in treating the disease contract it.

What sort of accidents are you speaking of that don't involve direct contact with an infected persons bodily fluid?

[rowech]

What sort of accidents are you speaking of that don't involve direct contact with an infected persons bodily fluid?

Misdiagnosis allowing people to leave treatment when they shouldn't have.

[rowech]

I believe the disease is difficult to spread but I also believe the fact the diseases is spread only through bodily fluids is not really true. My guess is that it's the vast majority of cases but I can't imagine that it's not possible for it to spread otherwise. Thing is arguably the nastiest thing on the planet.

[lighthousekeeper]

Thing is arguably the nastiest thing on the planet.

More people died from AIDS in the last 36 hours than have died from Ebola in the past 30 years combined.

[DaddyTorgo]

I believe the disease is difficult to spread but I also believe the fact the diseases is spread only through bodily fluids is not really true. My guess is that it's the vast majority of cases but I can't imagine that it's not possible for it to spread otherwise. Thing is arguably the nastiest thing on the planet.

Educate yourself please.

[flounder]

FFS. My first thought is how much of an idiot do you have to be to come back from West Africa, start showing signs of Ebola and not go to a hospital for at least 3-4 days.

You'd be amazed at how much people go into denial when facing a life threatening disease.

[Lathum]

I believe the disease is difficult to spread but I also believe the fact the diseases is spread only through bodily fluids is not really true. My guess is that it's the vast majority of cases but I can't imagine that it's not possible for it to spread otherwise. Thing is arguably the nastiest thing on the planet.

So you are just ignoring all the scientific data on this composed by the smartest pathologists in the world because it is your guess?

Honest question, AIDS is spread through bodily fluids, do you feel there are people with AIDS who somehow got it another way?

Diseases only spread certain ways, there is no gray area.No exceptions.

[lungs]

Can you get Ebola by sharing a toilet seat?

[CU Tiger]

Can you get Ebola by sharing a toilet seat?


Only if you have teh gay

[Lathum]

Can you get Ebola by sharing a toilet seat?

Well that could be a legitimate question. I suppose it depends on how long it can live outside the body.

[cartman]

If the previous guy was infected and spewed all over the seat, and you had open sores on your ass and sat down without cleaning the seat, then yeah it would be likely.

[BillJasper]

If the previous guy was infected and spewed all over the seat, and you had open sores on your ass and sat down without cleaning the seat, then yeah it would be likely.

This is just disturbingly graphic. :lol:

[miked]

I think I was reading somewhere that there has never been a disease (known) spread through contact with a toilet seat.

[cartman]

Wasn't it the MythBusters that showed the places with the most bacteria in your house were the kitchen sink and computer keyboard? The toilet seat was one of places with the least bacteria.

[BishopMVP]

Wasn't it the MythBusters that showed the places with the most bacteria in your house were the kitchen sink and computer keyboard? The toilet seat was one of places with the least bacteria.Don't forget doorknobs!

[path12]

I swear I got crabs once from a public toilet seat. I was in the middle of a six month dry stretch sexually so know that wasn't the reason.

[JeeberD]

Wash yo hands, DFW!

[cartman]

Yeah, here's the results of the Mythbusters testing:

Many objects that people touch every day are dirtier than a toilet seat.
CONFIRMED

Adam and Jamie chose a total of 8 objects to test for cleanliness: toilet seat, money, kitchen sponge, hotel room remote, computer keyboard, light switch, cell phone, and shopping cart. They swabbed each surface for 10 seconds and created Petri dishes from the swabs that incubated overnight. Their first method of measurement was to count the number of microorganism colonies on each dish. They found that the toilet seat sample actually had the fewest colonies, while the kitchen sponge sample had more than they could count:

kitchen sponge (most colonies)
money
light switch
computer keyboard
hotel remote
shopping cart
cell phone
toilet seat (fewest colonies)

However, they always wanted to account for the “nastiness” or harmfulness of the types of organisms on each Petri dish, so they had a microbiologist re-rank the samples. The list was as follows.

kitchen sponge (most nasty)
money
light switch
computer keyboard
toilet seat
cell phone
shopping cart
hotel remote (least nasty)

Finally, Adam and Jamie decided they needed a larger sample size to provide better results. They enlisted a group of biology students at UC Berkeley to collect more samples from the top five dirtiest surfaces. After collecting and analyzing these samples, the final list was as follows.

kitchen sponge (most dirty)
money
computer keyboard
toilet seat
light switch (least dirty)

[Kodos]

That does it. I am never handling money again.

[JeeberD]

I always wanted to barf when I would see one of my servers putting money into their mouth while trying to count change/get organized/etc. SO disgusting.

[dubb93]

I think that what is different about Ebola is that it is possible to get it from sweat. Most often you hear of diseases that are spread from fluids and you can not get it from sweat (think HIV / AIDs here). Ebola isn't like that. You can get it from simply touching someone. It requires you have a break of skin on your hands and they be sweating, both of which are likely. The Ebola patient will likely be running a fever and nearly everyone has a skin break, somewhere, on their hands.

I still don't think it is going to be an epidemic in the US, but it isn't like this requires contact with body fluids in the way MOST people think of diseases spread by body fluids.

EDIT: Also, according to the CDC, it CAN survive outside the body for several hours on things that have come into contact with body fluids. This can include door knobs and anything that has touched urine. Still would't panic.

[BishopMVP]

I always wanted to barf when I would see one of my servers putting money into their mouth while trying to count change/get organized/etc. SO disgusting.That's just to get the rush from the cocaine residue!

[miked]

My wife travels for a living. When she gets in a hotel room she:

Tosses the comforter or whatever they put on the bed to the side along with the throw pillows. She then takes out some clorox or similar wipes and wipes down the phone, remote, doorknobs, safe (if she uses it) and more.

You know that guy you see in the bathroom that's taking a loud nasty shit and then doesn't wash his hands? Yeah, he does that in hotel rooms as well and doesn't wash his hands there either.

[molson]

If Ebola could be spread by routine hygiene lapses it'd be far more widespread.

[miked]

I was not referring to Ebola, but I'd be willing to bet some pretty nasty stuff is spread through hotel rooms and airplanes.

[molson]

Does being a germaphobe really prevent you from getting sick or picking up viruses? I've always figured it just weakens your immune system.

[Edward64]

I agree with above post. Sooner or later there will be an outbreak.

Ebola can be transmitted "airborne". Maybe not in the truest definition of the term but better hope no one infected coughs near you.

BBC News - Growing concerns over 'in the air' transmission of Ebola (http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423)

Canadian scientists have shown that the deadliest form of the ebola virus could be transmitted by air between species.

In experiments, they demonstrated that the virus was transmitted from pigs to monkeys without any direct contact between them.

The researchers say they believe that limited airborne transmission might be contributing to the spread of the disease in some parts of Africa.

[cartman]

The Onion with a helpful PSA on how to protect yourself from ebola.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-to-protect-yourself-against-ebola,37085/

[Edward64]

Just had a awful thought. This would be a pretty scary terror tactic - have someone(s) relatively unknown, voluntarily infect themselves and slip into the country.

[Edward64]

Don't know how he got it but you would think someone that flew to Liberia to report on Ebola (and working for NBC) would have adequately protected himself.

NBC News freelancer in Africa diagnosed with Ebola | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola)
An American freelance cameraman working for NBC News in Liberia has tested positive for Ebola and will be flown back to the United States for treatment.

The infected freelancer was hired Tuesday to be a second cameraman for NBC News Chief Medical Editor and Correspondent Dr. Nancy Snyderman. Snyderman is with three other NBC News employees on assignment in Monrovia, reporting on the Ebola outbreak.

The freelancer came down with symptoms on Wednesday, feeling tired and achy. As part of a routine temperature check, he discovered he was running a slight fever. He immediately quarantined himself and sought medical advice. On Thursday morning, the 33 year-old American went to a Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) treatment center to be tested for the virus. The positive result came back just under 12 hours later.

The cameraman, who also is a writer, is the fourth American to have contracted Ebola in Liberia. He has been working in Liberia on various projects for the past three years. NBC News is withholding the cameraman’s name at the request of his family.

[Lathum]

Just had a awful thought. This would be a pretty scary terror tactic - have someone(s) relatively unknown, voluntarily infect themselves and slip into the country.

And do what? Start biting people? Throwing feces on people?

[molson]

Some could just shoot two people, that would double the impact of Ebloa in the U.S.

[Edward64]

And do what? Start biting people? Throwing feces on people?

See above BBC post. You really don't think someone can spread the virus intentionally? Put me in an airport. Millions won't die but the initial confusion and fear created will be great.

[cartman]

See above BBC post. You really don't think someone can spread the virus intentionally? Put me in an airport. Millions won't die but the initial confusion and fear created will be great.

The above BBC post says that it was transmitted that way by pigs to macaques, and only for a few feet, based on how their respiratory system works.

"The reality is that they are contained and they remain local, if it was really an airborne virus like influenza is it would spread all over the place, and that's not happening.

[DaddyTorgo]

The most absurd thing to me is that the guy in Dallas apparently lied on his immigration form or exit form or whatever it was.

What's it going to take to impose mandatory quarantines??

[Edward64]

The above BBC post says that it was transmitted that way by pigs to macaques, and only for a few feet, based on how their respiratory system works.

I get that. You think don't you think I can spread the virus intentionally in an airport?

[Lathum]

I get that. You think don't you think I can spread the virus intentionally in an airport?

how?

biting people? poking them with an infected needle? I'm curious.

[Lathum]

The most absurd thing to me is that the guy in Dallas apparently lied on his immigration form or exit form or whatever it was.

What's it going to take to impose mandatory quarantines??

Takes 2-21 days for symptoms to show? You going to hold someone for 3 weeks?

[DaddyTorgo]

Takes 2-21 days for symptoms to show? You going to hold someone for 3 weeks?

If that's what it takes to stop the spread...might not be the worst idea.

[Edward64]

how?

biting people? poking them with an infected needle? I'm curious.

Needle was what came to mind first. A terrorist could do some damage in a crowded area (for a short period of time before being subdued).

Not sure how long bodily fluids (e.g. saliva) would stay infectious on food but getting some in the Delta SkyClub olives and mushrooms (my favorites ... or anywhere else with a buffet) would be my fear.

I think there are multitudes of options to spread this.

[Lathum]

Needle was what came to mind first. A terrorist could do some damage in a crowded area (for a short period of time before being subdued).

Not sure how long bodily fluids (e.g. saliva) would stay infectious on food but getting some in the Delta SkyClub olives and mushrooms (my favorites ... or anywhere else with a buffet) would be my fear.

I think there are multitudes of options to spread this.

And unless those people started poking others with needles, or biting people, or had massive amounts of unprotected sex it would stop right there.

[Lathum]

If that's what it takes to stop the spread...might not be the worst idea.

Is there some spread of ebola in the US I'm not aware of?

[Edward64]

And unless those people started poking others with needles, or biting people, or had massive amounts of unprotected sex it would stop right there.

The infected healthcare workers probably didn't do any of the 3 either. Healthcare workers notwithstanding, it didn't stop right there in western Africa, kids are getting it.

The story is not yet told on how this infection has grown beyond historical norms. I don't know but I suspect a little bit of short distance sneeze/cough, tainted food and normal human contact such as hugs and kisses.

[molson]

I think people scared of one guy in Texas with Ebola (and the people in the first two pages of this thread who were scared that the U.S. was transporting those doctors to the U.S.) would be pretty freaked out if they had heard of all the various viruses and bacteria that are floating around our own country right now:

http://www.cdc.gov/outbreaks/index.html

And if you travel, forget about it:

Disease Directory | Travelers' Health | CDC (http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/diseases)

There isn't a vaccine for everything, washing your hands doesn't guarantee your safety, you could be a victim tomorrow! It's also about a thousand times more likely you'll die in a car accident tomorrow, but nobody thinks about that.

Edit: I didn't realize 1,000–2,500 people still get the plague every year.

[molson]

The infected healthcare workers probably didn't do any of the 3 either.

Healthcare workers in African clinics are absolutely getting exposed to bodily fluids. Hell, the average ER worker here is as well. Precautions are taken, but after a thousand or so contacts, a small risk emerges.

[Edward64]

Healthcare workers in African clinics are absolutely getting exposed to bodily fluids. Hell, the average ER worker here is as well. Precautions are taken, but after a thousand or so contacts, a small risk emerges.

Reread Lathum's 3 scenarios. Exposed to bodily fluids is not one of the 3.

But I do agree with you.

[RainMaker]

It's not airborne. Efficient diseases like this don't just magically become airborne. There is no historical precedent for it to happen. This should calm some fears.

Fact or Fiction?: The Ebola Virus Will Go Airborne - Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-the-ebola-virus-will-go-airborne/)

[DaddyTorgo]

Is there some spread of ebola in the US I'm not aware of?

Sorry - I didn't make it clear that I was saying that there ought to be quarantines in place in West Africa, not the USA.

[Edward64]

It's not airborne. Efficient diseases like this don't just magically become airborne. There is no historical precedent for it to happen. This should calm some fears.

Fact or Fiction?: The Ebola Virus Will Go Airborne - Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-the-ebola-virus-will-go-airborne/)

My above post referenced the article in your link. How I read it is that it can be spread by air, albeit short distances. It may not fit the scientific definition of "airborne" but via air means airborne to me.

I did not know it did not spread monkey-to-monkey but monkey-to-pig so I'll concede that airborne transmission may not be as simple as sneezing on someone.



As Osterholm notes in his piece, in 2012 researchers found that a strain of Ebola was spread from pigs to nonhuman primates via the air in a different lab setting. The virus, however, did not then spread from monkey-to-monkey in those circumstances.

Questions remain about the current strain of Ebola thriving in west Africa. Apart from the environmental, economic and social circumstances that have fueled its spread, does the virus itself have special characteristics that set it apart? Is it, for example, growing faster or at higher viral concentrations than previous strains? But the jury is still out on this and other questions. Right now we have few answers about this Ebola strain, yet we do know that a massive injection of finances and personnel will be needed to contain it in the months ahead. As of Friday it had claimed more than 2,400 lives.

[JPhillips]

Sorry - I didn't make it clear that I was saying that there ought to be quarantines in place in West Africa, not the USA.

That's the whole issue. There isn't a government or medical infrastructure to do that.

In the U.S. there is. We'll be fine.

[DaddyTorgo]

My above post referenced the article in your link. How I read it is that it can be spread by air, albeit short distances. It may not fit the scientific definition of "airborne" but via air means airborne to me.


So you're admitting you're incorrect then?

Don't go throwing around medical terms that mean specific things and then say "oh but my definition is different."

[Edward64]

So you're admitting you're incorrect then?

Don't go throwing around medical terms that mean specific things and then say "oh but my definition is different."

Is airborne a scientific term? What is your definition of airborne? See post #114, I set the expectation then.

[RainMaker]

The vast majority of infectious disease specialists say it would be highly unusual to shift to airborne. It's technically possible, but unlikely. Unlikely as in never documented a viral outbreak doing so in history.

And the one study that keeps getting posted in the media and on social media to drum up intrigue was essentially shot down by the same team of scientists during a follow-up study. Conveniently no one wants to post that study (http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140725/srep05824/full/srep05824.html).

This hysteria over it becoming airborne is as dumb as the hysteria over HIV becoming airborne in the 90's. Ebola is not new, it's been around for a long time. And those who have researched it have said that it actually remains fairly consistent. This is just the media latching on to a story that gets them clicks and people eating it up.

[RainMaker]

Is airborne a scientific term? What is your definition of airborne? See post #114, I set the expectation then.

It is. Even the flu isn't considered airborne.

[digamma]

....

Water go to the water, water go to the cup
Cup go to the stomach, shit come out the butt
Shit go in the water, water go in the cup
Shit go down the stomach, shit come out the butt

Ugh, oh fuck
Oh no, the prophet Joseph Smith is now getting sick

Shit go in the water, water go in the cup
Cup go to the thirsty, shit go to the stomach
Blood come out the butt, blood go in the water
Water go in the cup, cup go to the tongue
Shit blood in the stomach, shit blood in the mouth
Shit blood on the insides, water come out the butt

[CU Tiger]

....

WTF did I miss?

[JPhillips]

WTF did I miss?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qYTpd8QOSA0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Thomkal]

There may be a second case now...In DC (scroll down a bit for the info on that)

Hazmat team arrives to clean quarantine apartment - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/health/ebola-us/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

[Thomkal]

Surprised no one has mentioned this incident today:

CDC responds to sick passenger on Brussels flight - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/04/us/new-york-flight-sick-passenger/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

That had to have been pretty scary for the passengers on board, especially the guy sitting next to him.

[Breeze]

Almost all of the additional reported cases of Ebola symptoms (the ones above and many others that haven't made the news)...have ended up being symptoms of Malaria...

[cartman]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/10/01/ebolar0_custom-51327a6a4853632602173cc2fa7ad8339aac5630-s40-c85.jpg

[Kodos]

I am patient zero.

[cartman]

There are now no patients diagnosed with ebola in Dallas.

[Easy Mac]

That's one way to snuff out a pending epidemic.

But seriously, this has to put a cramp in the CDCs whole "no worries, we can save people if it spreads over" here message.

[bhlloy]

I think the key is prompt medical care can seriously improve the odds. Makes the lack of diagnosis at the hospital even more tragic and probably a malpractice suit in the future

[Easy Mac]

But if I'm not mistaken, didn't it take the doctor and the missionary a few days to get over here before they got any proper treatment? What's the difference between that and an extra 2 days this guy had to wait. The only difference I can see so far is that they got the drug.

[molson]

I don't know how many people died in Texas today, but the one death among those that scares everybody is the one that's the most rare, the most unusual, this one weird disease that it's incredibly difficult to get. I still can't wrap my mind around this.

[Fidatelo]

I don't know how many people died in Texas today, but the one death among those that scares everybody is the one that's the most rare, the most unusual, this one weird disease that it's incredibly difficult to get. I still can't wrap my mind around this.

Fear and logic often don't go hand-in-hand.

[sterlingice]

There are now no patients diagnosed with ebola in Dallas.

Is everyone in Dallas dead yet? Or are they zombies?

SI

[PilotMan]

But if I'm not mistaken, didn't it take the doctor and the missionary a few days to get over here before they got any proper treatment? What's the difference between that and an extra 2 days this guy had to wait. The only difference I can see so far is that they got the drug.

I think it's apples and oranges. They knew when they were exposed and they knew when they got sick. There was a timeline to start with from exposure to treatment.

In this other case he didn't know that when he was actually exposed that he was in danger right then. He didn't seek treatment until he was already ill enough that he went to the hospital. He was treated and released. Then another 2 days later before he went back. The timelines could be as much as a week apart from the start of treatment.

Clearly the earlier the treatment begins the better chance there is of survival. The fact that he was so much farther along really seems to have affected his ability to survive the illness.

FWIW, I'm sick from the ebola coverage. Just so much useless discussion and overload when there are so many other things to think about going on. The will keep putting it out there as long as their ratings stay high for it. People will turn it off when they are sufficiently overexposed to it and then it'll go to the back burner.

[Kodos]

On the other hand, it's more interesting than the incessant political commercials on TV. :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Anyone for Marburg?

99 in Uganda quarantined after Marburg death - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/07/health/uganda-marburg-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)

[Grover]

I can't believe how worried everyone is about Ebola. Especially when the Dear Leader hasn't been seen in over a month.

[DaddyTorgo]

I can't believe how worried everyone is about Ebola. Especially when the Dear Leader hasn't been seen in over a month.

We should get some clarity on that on Friday.

[JPhillips]

The Spanish response to an infected nurse sure looks like a shit show. From Talking Points Memo:

This from the Daily Beast ...

When Teresa Romero Ramos, the Spanish nurse now afflicted with the deadly Ebola virus, first felt feverish on September 30, she reportedly called her family doctor and told him she had been working with Ebola patients. Her fever was low-grade, just 38 degrees Celsius, far enough below the 38.6 degree Ebola red alert temperature to not cause alarm. Her doctor told her to take two aspirin, keep an eye on her fever and keep in touch, according to Spanish press reports quoting Romero’s husband Limón Romero. He says she didn’t initially exhibit any of the other Ebola symptoms: vomiting, diarrhea, nausea, and she didn’t feel sick enough to stay in bed.

Romero apparently took great comfort from the fact that her temperature had not reached the threshold for concern about Ebola. 38 celsius is 100.4 Fahrenheit. She had time off from work, ran errands, caught up with friends and even sat for a government civil service exam.

Just in ordinary terms 100.4 is a borderline fever. And I'm not sure how definitive that 38.6 (101.48 F) threshold is considered. But it would at least seem like you'd have a more aggressive regimen for people who worked directly with an Ebola patient. But it apparently got worse from there.

Again from the Daily Beast ...

According to Spanish press reports quoting the Spanish nurses’ union, Romero called Carlos III hospital several times between September 30 and October 2 when her fever finally hit the 38.6 threshold. Still, it took until October 6 when she had become so deathly ill she was begging for an Ebola test before anyone at the hospital where she worked reportedly reacted. Then, rather than immediately isolating her and rushing her to the special ward used to treat the previous Ebola patients, they told her to go to the nearby emergency room at Alcorcón, where press reports say she sat in the public waiting room for several hours absent of any protective gear. “I think I have ebola,” she reportedly told anyone who would listen. But no one took notice until her first test came back positive. By then, dripping with fevered sweat, she would have been inarguably contagious.

[DaddyTorgo]

What a shit show.

Seriously - people who have potentially been exposed and hospitals BOTH need to be more demanding.

If I think I've even possibly been exposed to Ebola then why would I not DEMAND to be quarantined?

[Desnudo]

head shots are the only way to be sure

[Easy Mac]

What a shit show.

Seriously - people who have potentially been exposed and hospitals BOTH need to be more demanding.

If I think I've even possibly been exposed to Ebola then why would I not DEMAND to be quarantined?

What I don't understand is, if you think you have Ebloa, why not stay in your house, call 9-1-1 and explain everything on the phone? It seems you'd have a far less chance of infecting other people.

Ebola scare in Frisco: Patient identified as deputy (http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/08/patient-frisco-ebola-suspect/16922477/)

[Solecismic]

We assume a level of education that just isn't realistic in much of the world. If only college graduates could contract Ebola, it would die out rather quickly. It's not a lack of intelligence, it's more not understanding how contagions work. And on a more simplistic level, not developing an understanding of global community.

Also, people tend to have a work ethic where they expect themselves to continue working even if they have a low fever. Even in the educated world, we're reluctant to give up that selfishness.

[HerRealName]

I live in Frisco and I'm at my son's swimming lessons now. There is a very noticable decrease in attendance today... maybe 25% of the usual crowd. I can't help but wonder if this is due to Ebola madness.

[Cap Ologist]

The clinic in Frisco is like 5 minutes from where I work. Beware of reading this post, you might get infected. ;)

[Easy Mac]

you mean we can get rid of the Pats and Cowboys in one try?!

Boston hospital monitoring patient for possible Ebola case - Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/patient-isolated-massachusetts-clinic-displaying-ebola-symptoms-newspaper-200117720.html)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

[bronconick]

The Spanish response to an infected nurse sure looks like a shit show. From Talking Points Memo:

Then they killed her dog because it may transfer around

[DaddyTorgo]

you mean we can get rid of the Pats and Cowboys in one try?!

Boston hospital monitoring patient for possible Ebola case - Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/patient-isolated-massachusetts-clinic-displaying-ebola-symptoms-newspaper-200117720.html)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

My sister is right down the street from all the hospitals.

Fun times.

[Easy Mac]

Well, so much for her dog.


http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e7c432d3a06935b18da33d296dd58597f45c43f0/c=15-0-685-894&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/USATODAY/None/2014/10/13/635488007680512814-101314nina-pham.jpg

[Butter]

RIP Scruffy.

[cartman]

Just found out that the nurse that got infected went to the same high school I did (she graduated in 2006), and is the niece of one of my long time friends.

[Easy Mac]

Dallas Ebola Patient's Dog Will Be Kept Safe, Mayor Says - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dallas-ebola-patients-dog-safe-mayor/story?id=26148804)

[Suicane75]

You don't know what a weight off my mind that is.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You don't know what a weight off my mind that is.

+1

[OldGiants]

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1781974_10154677898235510_3403898687977534177_n.jpg?oh=f2c445746f811bdb0ecc1d1af3f54efd&oe=54B41654

[DaddyTorgo]

Haha - nice!!!

[Easy Mac]

Well, I'm glad my wife is coming back tomorrow from a conference in Kansas City.
KU Hospital testing patient for Ebola virus | The Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article2707328.html)

[Easy Mac]

Second Dallas worker has Ebola.

News Guide: Latest news on Ebola - seattlepi.com (http://m.seattlepi.com/news/texas/article/News-Guide-Latest-news-on-Ebola-5823797.php)

Using my highly scientific research, I assume now people have been infected this time as opposed to previously because:
A) this guy was sicker during his stay,
B) the Dallas hospital is not nearly as equipped to handle this as Emory.

[Edward64]

If infection can spread in a hospital and their caregivers, its no wonder its a such a mess in Africa. I get mistakes were likely made by the caregivers but if this can happen in a somewhat hospital controlled environment, it doesn't bode well if there are more that enter the country.

2nd Dallas worker tests positive for Ebola - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
(CNN) -- A second health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who cared for Thomas Eric Duncan has tested positive for Ebola, health officials said Wednesday -- casting further doubt on the hospital's ability to handle Ebola and protect employees.

The worker reported a fever Tuesday and was immediately isolated, health department spokeswoman Carrie Williams said.

The preliminary Ebola test was done late Tuesday at the state public health laboratory in Austin, and the results came back around midnight. A second test will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.

"Health officials have interviewed the latest patient to quickly identify any contacts or potential exposures, and those people will be monitored," the health department said.

[Easy Mac]

Well I'll tell you what, if Ebola wipes out even a small portion of the U.S. population, I'll buy you a coke.

You owe Shepp a coke.

[molson]

You owe Shepp a coke.

The U.S. death toll is still............one. Only about 30,000 or so to go until it's as deadly as the regular flu in a bad season. I'm not even sure that would count as a "small portion of the U.S. population", but I will buy Shepp a coke at that point if he's still alive. Even though his specific fear was that the virus would escape Atlanta CDC and destroy America.

Edit: People think of the flu as this relatively harmless thing that only kills old people, but if we're going to compare it to the death toll of Ebola, that's not true at all. Flu is killing younger people at an increased rate. And this is something you can get a vaccine for! Millions don't bother, and some of them are no doubt terrified of Ebola. That's just stupid. The stupidity is getting exhausting.

CDC Reports Flu Hit Younger People Particularly Hard This Season | Press Release | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0220-flu-report.html)

[Autumn]

Edit: People think of the flu as this relatively harmless thing that only kills old people, but if we're going to compare it to the death toll of Ebola, that's not true at all. Flu is killing younger people at an increased rate. And this is something you can get a vaccine for! Millions don't bother, and some of them are no doubt terrified of Ebola. That's just stupid. The stupidity is getting exhausting.

Feeling tired, rundown, Molson? Finding it hard to move?

Guys, lock this place down.

[JPhillips]

The U.S. death toll is still............one. Only about 30,000 or so to go until it's as deadly as the regular flu in a bad season. I'm not even sure that would count as a "small portion of the U.S. population", but I will buy Shepp a coke at that point if he's still alive. Even though his specific fear was that the virus would escape Atlanta CDC and destroy America.

Edit: People think of the flu as this relatively harmless thing that only kills old people, but if we're going to compare it to the death toll of Ebola, that's not true at all. Flu is killing younger people at an increased rate. And this is something you can get a vaccine for! Millions don't bother, and some of them are no doubt terrified of Ebola. That's just stupid. The stupidity is getting exhausting.

CDC Reports Flu Hit Younger People Particularly Hard This Season | Press Release | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0220-flu-report.html)

Can I get an amen!

[JeeberD]

CDC says second nurse diagnosed with Ebola flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before she reported symptoms | Dallas Morning News (http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/)

Lovely...

[molson]

Feeling tired, rundown, Molson? Finding it hard to move?

Guys, lock this place down.

Umm, no, I'm fine, I swear, uh, I just had a late night, that's all, and that zombie's bite didn't even break the skin.

[Easy Mac]

CDC says second nurse diagnosed with Ebola flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before she reported symptoms | Dallas Morning News (http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/)

Lovely...

Surely the government already has all their contact info from the flight manifest, wouldn't it make more sense for the CDC to call all of them instead of relying on people reading an announcement on websites?

Edit: The question above is in relation to the CDC statement in the article that passengers are to call the CDC hotline.

[DaddyTorgo]

Surely the government already has all their contact info from the flight manifest, wouldn't it make more sense for the CDC to call all of them instead of relying on people reading an announcement on websites?

Seriously. The inefficiencies/unpreparedness/stupidity this is bringing to light are just...staggering.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Surely the government already has all their contact info from the flight manifest, wouldn't it make more sense for the CDC to call all of them instead of relying on people reading an announcement on websites?

Edit: The question above is in relation to the CDC statement in the article that passengers are to call the CDC hotline.

I haven't flown in a while so even if I could remember the precise details of what info was associated with my travel it might not be relevant anymore, but ...

I recall my address being picked up to match against my ID but off-hand I don't recall phone numbers being part of the flight manifest data. In the airline sales database probably, but in the stuff that goes on what I think of as the passenger manifest -- the details the gate agents have in front of them -- ... is the phone number even on there?

[Breeze]

Seriously. The inefficiencies/unpreparedness/stupidity this is bringing to light are just...staggering.

Actually the problem isn't the CDC. They probably have the contact information, the problem is they aren't allowed to immediately contact the people potentially exposed. They have to fill out paperwork and submit it to another government agency before being given approval to move forward.

On several occasions the person in the CDC in charge of this type of thing has told investigators to start contact anyway, and the paperwork would be filled out and filed behind their efforts.

[DaddyTorgo]

Actually the problem isn't the CDC. They probably have the contact information, the problem is they aren't allowed to immediately contact the people potentially exposed. They have to fill out paperwork and submit it to another government agency before being given approval to move forward.

On several occasions the person in the CDC in charge of this type of thing has told investigators to start contact anyway, and the paperwork would be filled out and filed behind their efforts.

I don't think I ever mentioned the CDC, but that's interesting. Stupid bureaucracy.

[Breeze]

I don't think I ever mentioned the CDC, but that's interesting. Stupid bureaucracy.

Guess I felt the need to defend the CDC part of the equation, though they are far from blameless. I can tell you the Ebola response team leadership is extremely frustrated with the bureaucracy as well.

[DaddyTorgo]

Guess I felt the need to defend the CDC part of the equation, though they are far from blameless. I can tell you the Ebola response team leadership is extremely frustrated with the bureaucracy as well.

Totally cool.

Wish the bureaucracy would get the fuck out of the way and let the doctors do their jobs.

[Shepp]

The U.S. death toll is still............one. Only about 30,000 or so to go until it's as deadly as the regular flu in a bad season. I'm not even sure that would count as a "small portion of the U.S. population", but I will buy Shepp a coke at that point if he's still alive. Even though his specific fear was that the virus would escape Atlanta CDC and destroy America.

Thank you for distorting the message that I put forward earlier. I don't remember saying anywhere that we were facing the "destruction of America". I questioned the wisdom of bringing a disease with an over 50% mortality rate to a major urban center when it wasn't absolutely necessary.

I do remember you putting forth the notion that just about any hospital in America would be capable of treating an Ebola patient safely. So far we have had one random hospital put to the test with an Ebola case. The result has been at least two of the hospital staff being infected themselves.

[molson]

Thank you for distorting the message that I put forward earlier. I don't remember saying anywhere that we were facing the "destruction of America". I questioned the wisdom of bringing a disease with an over 50% mortality rate to a major urban center when it wasn't absolutely necessary.

I do remember you putting forth the notion that just about any hospital in America would be capable of treating an Ebola patient safely. So far we have had one random hospital put to the test with an Ebola case. The result has been at least two of the hospital staff being infected themselves.

What I said was that "the risk of Ebola transferring from any North American hospital into the general population is minuscule", and indeed, that hasn't happened yet (though we'll see how many people on that Cleveland to Dallas plane get Ebola, and how far into the general population they spread it ).

Healthcare workers always have some risk, of all kinds of things. Before the handful of healthcare providers got Ebola, others from Doctors without Borders got sick from other things, or were kidnapped, murdered, injured, or stranded. Those are among the best people in humanity to take on those risks for the betterment of others. And their transfer to the CDC may have saved their lives, and did not either destroy America, or involve even one other person getting the disease. (and it had the side benefit of giving the CDC the opportunity testing out treatments and learn more about the disease.)

Edit: If people want to be more afraid of this than any of the many, many things that pose a much greater risk to their lives and health, that's their right I guess, I just worry that this paranoia is going to have a hugely negative effect on lots of totally innocent peoples' lives pretty soon. The power of irrational fear scares me so much more than Ebola.

[rowech]

This is going to explode in the USA very soon. People are so stupid. Why would she travel to a different city? Just dumb beyond dumb.

[Lathum]

This is going to explode in the USA very soon. People are so stupid. Why would she travel to a different city? Just dumb beyond dumb.

define explode

[Fidatelo]

If she traveled the day before she showed symptoms, and the disease supposedly doesn't transmit until you show symptoms, shouldn't everything be fine?

[Lathum]

If she traveled the day before she showed symptoms, and the disease supposedly doesn't transmit until you show symptoms, shouldn't everything be fine?

Rowechs earier posts indcate he believes the virus can be transmitted in ways other than those known by conventional wisdom.

[AlexB]

This is going to explode in the USA very soon. People are so stupid. Why would she travel to a different city? Just dumb beyond dumb.

Is this question "why did someone who felt fine take a plane flight"? If she was symptomatic then you would have a valid point, but in this case how could she have known?

[DaddyTorgo]

Is this question "why did someone who felt fine take a plane flight"? If she was symptomatic then you would have a valid point, but in this case how could she have known?

That'd be my issue though.

Feel like they should have mandatory quarantine (with pay) for the workers who were exposed to the guy.

Especially in the case of this hospital where it sounds like they were massively unprepared.

[AlexB]

That'd be my issue though.

Feel like they should have mandatory quarantine (with pay) for the workers who were exposed to the guy.

Especially in the case of this hospital where it sounds like they were massively unprepared.

OK, see where you're coming from with that. The issue there would be that if cases increase you'd soon run out of healthcare workers as they'd all be in quarantine for 21 days or so every time they interacted with an ebola patient.

In this case it seems like (from what we have been told) that everyone did what they were supposed to do, unlike the Spanish nurse - this time as soon as the first symptom showed, she reported it immediately. If what we are told is true and it's only contagious when an infected person is symptomatic, all should be OK...

[DaddyTorgo]

OK, see where you're coming from with that. The issue there would be that if cases increase you'd soon run out of healthcare workers as they'd all be in quarantine for 21 days or so every time they interacted with an ebola patient.

In this case it seems like (from what we have been told) that everyone did what they were supposed to do, unlike the Spanish nurse - this time as soon as the first symptom showed, she reported it immediately. If what we are told is true and it's only contagious when an infected person is symptomatic, all should be OK...

Extremely valid point. I don't have an answer for that issue either ;)

[JeeberD]

Is this question "why did someone who felt fine take a plane flight"? If she was symptomatic then you would have a valid point, but in this case how could she have known?

She reportedly had a 99.5 degree temp when she left Cleveland...

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah

CDC: New Ebola patient shouldn't have flown | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/the-reid-report/watch/cdc--new-ebola-patient-shouldnt-have-flown-342993987900)

[JeeberD]

And it keeps getting better.

Ebola Nurse Boyfriend Admitted With Ebola Symptoms (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14134006752086&key=1f17bfe53b0b32667030c5d01c161283&libId=7b45e8bd-f869-4a23-8531-16a7fc858913&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.clutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D258559%26page%3D25&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fgotnews.com%2Febola-nurse-boyfriend-reportedly-admitted-ebola-symptoms%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.clutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D258559%26page%3D24&title=Ebola%201st%20case%20in%20the%20US%20-%20Page%2025%20-%20ClutchFans&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fgotnews.com%2Febola-nurse-boyfr...bola-symptoms%2F)

[BillJasper]

Something is going to get us all in the end. If Ebola gets me, it gets me. Having a seven year old, I'm more concerned with the Enterovirus D68.

[miked]

All this talk about Ebola is rather amusing, wonder how all the people who don't want to vaccinate their children against actual diseases that have impacted more people feel.

[cartman]

All this talk about Ebola is rather amusing, wonder how all the people who don't want to vaccinate their children against actual diseases that have impacted more people feel.

One of my friends from high school is a nurse, and has been very vocal in the past about being unhappy with nurses having to get the flu vaccine. Now she is posting stuff freaking out about ebola, wanting hospitals to spare no costs for keeping the virus out, when there have been more people this week die from catching the flu at a hospital than there has been getting ebola from a hospital in the US.

[rowech]

Rowechs earier posts indcate he believes the virus can be transmitted in ways other than those known by conventional wisdom.

I don't believe it transmits through the air but the fact remains that healthcare workers, those who are trained to take every precaution, are getting it and then being careless in their behaviors. I do believe it transmits a hell of a lot easier than people believe it does.

It's only going to go exponential from here.

[jeff061]

I don't believe healthcare professionals are all anywhere near as well trained on Ebola precautions as we think. I don't think it transmits easier than we think it does, it's pretty clear cut how it transmits. Sweat, a sneeze, any other type of bodily fluids.

Problem is there are a lot of nurses out there that are "doing it wrong" when they are thrust into an Ebola situation and told to handle it.

[bhlloy]

Yeah that's the big takeaway. Duncan should not have been treated by these nurses at that hospital. I think I remember hearing that they are going to direct all future cases to the two hospitals in the country that are equipped and have staff trained in these kinds of diseases (one of which is Emory) - seems like an absolute no brainer

[dubb93]

I don't believe healthcare professionals are all anywhere near as well trained on Ebola precautions as we think. I don't think it transmits easier than we think it does, it's pretty clear cut how it transmits. Sweat, a sneeze, any other type of bodily fluids.

Problem is there are a lot of nurses out there that are "doing it wrong" when they are thrust into an Ebola situation and told to handle it.

How well do you think they are trained? PPE is a fairly major part of every healthcare profession and you have demonstrate you understand it well before you are able to sit for a license. "Ebola precautions" are not anything new. Would be a combo of contact/droplet precautions. Every healthcare provider should not only be expected to be an expert in this, but being able to teach these to others is a part of their job description.

In fact, if we are specifically talking about nurses, they have not only had to sit through lecture and read about them, they have had to demonstrate the proper procedure for how to perform them to their instructor. They have also been written tested on all the various forms of PPE, including how to educate the public if they come to a room with an isolation sign on the door. This is all before they get their license and anything the hospital would do is on top of this.

[jeff061]

That's all well and good. Doesn't change what I think is the issue, nurses not knowing what they are doing. What is expected and what is reality don't necessarily align.

[dubb93]

That's all well and good. Doesn't change what I think is the issue, nurses not knowing what they are doing. What is expected and what is reality don't necessarily align.

I don't think it is anywhere near as black and white as that.

[molson]

There's a LOT of nurses and healthcare professionals in America. Some are bound to be idiots and terrible at their jobs (not unlike police officers). Those medical professionals make mistakes that result in the deaths of many people (about 200,000 people are killed in the U.S. every year from medical malpractice - another thing that should worry you more than Ebola).

[jeff061]

I don't think it is anywhere near as black and white as that.

I agree it's not. I'm not attempting to diagnose why the situation exists.

[miked]

Well, the other issue is that doctors (especially in ERs) see dozens of febrile patients daily. Rumor has it that this guy (who died) sat in a waiting room for a while, another room waiting for people, and it's not like this place is Emory or something (with special areas designed for this). So I think it's a combination of lots of things, but hopefully this raises awareness for more NIH dollars to fund research, and more standardized protocols across institutions.

[jeff061]

There's a LOT of nurses and healthcare professionals in America. Some are bound to be idiots and terrible at their jobs (not unlike police officers). Those medical professionals make mistakes that result in the deaths of many people (about 200,000 people are killed in the U.S. every year from medical malpractice - another thing that should worry you more than Ebola).

Agree.

Let me be clear. Wasn't saying all nurses were morons or speaking negatively towards the profession or the nurses themselves. Totally agree with post above.

[jeff061]

Just saw on top of my news feed:

Nurses claim alarming lack of proper equipment and protocols to handle Ebola - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gonzalez-hospital-nurses-claim-lack-ebola-protocols-article-1.1974703)

The nurses feel “unsupported, unprepared, lied to and deserted to handle their own situation,” they said in an additional statement they released Tuesday night.

[Easy Mac]

And it keeps getting better.

Ebola Nurse Boyfriend Admitted With Ebola Symptoms (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14134006752086&key=1f17bfe53b0b32667030c5d01c161283&libId=7b45e8bd-f869-4a23-8531-16a7fc858913&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.clutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D258559%26page%3D25&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fgotnews.com%2Febola-nurse-boyfriend-reportedly-admitted-ebola-symptoms%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.clutchfans.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D258559%26page%3D24&title=Ebola%201st%20case%20in%20the%20US%20-%20Page%2025%20-%20ClutchFans&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fgotnews.com%2Febola-nurse-boyfr...bola-symptoms%2F)

That's what the headline says, that's not actually what the CEOs email says. Says he was quarantined since he had close contact, but has not shown any symptoms.

[BillJasper]

Just saw on top of my news feed:

Nurses claim alarming lack of proper equipment and protocols to handle Ebola - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gonzalez-hospital-nurses-claim-lack-ebola-protocols-article-1.1974703)

But if we handle these things the right way, it will cut into someone's profit margin somewhere and we can't have that.

[Solecismic]

It's frustrating that protocol would indicate that the second nurse should not have flown anywhere following exposure, and that she continued her trip even when she had a fever.

Are people so selfish that they don't mind potentially bringing this disease somewhere new? Or is this just a lack of education?

It seems the CDC is vastly underestimating human nature. Which means hospital managers need to get their collective acts together immediately. It may be practical to send ebola cases to one or two hospitals right now, but if this becomes any larger, that will no longer be the case.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's frustrating that protocol would indicate that the second nurse should not have flown anywhere following exposure, and that she continued her trip even when she had a fever.

Are people so selfish that they don't mind potentially bringing this disease somewhere new? Or is this just a lack of education?

It seems the CDC is vastly underestimating human nature. Which means hospital managers need to get their collective acts together immediately. It may be practical to send ebola cases to one or two hospitals right now, but if this becomes any larger, that will no longer be the case.

Exactly my point.

[AlexB]

She reportedly had a 99.5 degree temp when she left Cleveland...

In that case yes, she is an idiot. If nurses treating patients don't follow the rules/recommendations when you presume they would know the symptoms and potential consequences of travelling while feverish after contact with an ebola patient, it's hard to believe the ordinary person will self-quarantine in similar circumstances.

[jeff061]

Denial is a powerful thing. But yes, clearly the consequences are not strong enough and jail time should be handed down.

[JPhillips]

Every couple of months Shep Smith says what needs to be said.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Z2KBfynW09I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Lathum]

I don't believe it transmits through the air but the fact remains that healthcare workers, those who are trained to take every precaution, are getting it and then being careless in their behaviors. I do believe it transmits a hell of a lot easier than people believe it does.

It's only going to go exponential from here.

So how bad ? 1000 deaths? 10000? More?

[Easy Mac]

I read a report that said the CDC knew she was one of the nurses who treated him on his return visit prior to the official diagnosis, when he was vomiting.

They also gave her permission to go to Cleveland, even though they were monitoring her.

Are they just trying to tempt fate?

I also like how it completely contradicts Frieden's assertion that she shouldn't have flown.

[rowech]

So how bad ? 1000 deaths? 10000? More?

I'll guess around 100 or so by January. 1000 by end of Spring. Hopefully by then we have stopped acting with arrogance and such disregard for protocol.

[Ryche]

I'll guess around 100 or so by January. 1000 by end of Spring. Hopefully by then we have stopped acting with arrogance and such disregard for protocol.

If we exceed 10 deaths in the US I'll be very surprised

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll guess around 100 or so by January. 1000 by end of Spring. Hopefully by then we have stopped acting with arrogance and such disregard for protocol.

Want to put some $$ on it?

[molson]

I'm going to predict 0 more deaths, though I wouldn't be surprised if fuck-ups could lead to another couple. I'd be very surprised at anything more than 10, and even then, I'd be much more concerned about the reaction of people in this country and the impact on the economy than a disease itself that would have wiped out a whole 1 in every 30 million of us by that point. The mortality rate, even with a much smaller sample size, is going to be dramatically less than West Africa. Nigeria and Senegal had minor "outbreaks" that have now pretty much ended, and the U.S. will do even better than them. The disease has barely even spread in Africa outside of the 3 West African countries hit by this, 10 months into the epidemic there. (and those are 3 of the poorest countries on the planet, which is no coincidence). Ebola couldn't take hold in relatively wealthier and more medically advanced Nigeria.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm going to predict 0 more deaths, though I wouldn't be surprised if fuck-ups could lead to another couple. I'd be very surprised at anything more than 10, and even then, I'd be much more concerned about the reaction of people in this country and the impact on the economy than a disease itself that would have wiped out a whole 1 in every 30 million of us by that point. The mortality rate, even with a much smaller sample size, is going to be dramatically less than West Africa. Nigeria and Senegal had minor "outbreaks" that have now pretty much ended, and the U.S. will do even better than them. The disease has barely even spread in Africa outside of the 3 West African countries hit by this, 10 months into the epidemic there. (and those are 3 of the poorest countries on the planet, which is no coincidence).

dammit, shut up. I'm trying to win some easy money here! :p

[Solecismic]

From CBS:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that Vinson called the agency several times before flying, saying that she had a fever with a temperature of 99.5 degrees. But because her fever wasn't 100.4 degrees or higher, she didn't officially fall into the group of "high risk" and was allowed to fly.

Words escape me. What's the point of having a CDC if their "monitoring" of a situation borders on criminal negligence?

[nol]

Put it this way: I'm much more likely to bet against less than 10 than against more than 100. The epidemic's been growing at an exponential pace the past 6 months in West Africa, and the data shows no indication that it will fall off anytime soon. You can't stop every one of those people from slipping through the cracks and going to the US or Europe.

Even if we do end up doing better than Africa with regards to not letting infected people infect others (we currently are not), this isn't something that will blow over within a couple months.

[molson]

Nigeria had a similar lapse this summer, except much worse - someone who was near death and showing obvious symptoms traveled by plane from Liberia to Lagos. He was exposed to 72 people on the plane, many more at the airport, and then the hospital before they reeled the situation in. Nobody on the plane got infected. A few other cases have popped up here and there but were all contained with a total death toll of 8. Nigeria has had no active cases in 21+ days, which means they're in the clear again until and if someone else comes in with symptoms.

Of course, that won't stop stuff like this:

Texas College Rejects Nigerian Applicants, Cites Ebola Cases - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/texas-college-rejects-nigerian-applicants-cites-ebola-cases-n226291)

Edit: If you're black guy on a plane things could go either way right now. Maybe you'll get more space because people are more afraid of you than usual, but sneeze too much and you might have 20 firefighters greeting you on arrival.

[nol]

Nigeria had a similar lapse this summer, except much worse - someone who was near death and showing obvious symptoms traveled by plane from Liberia to Lagos. He was exposed to 72 people on the plane, many more at the airport, and then the hospital before they reeled the situation in. Nobody on the plane got infected. A few other cases have popped up here and there but were all contained with a total death toll of 8. Nigeria has had no active cases in 21+ days, which means they're in the clear again until and if someone else comes in with symptoms.

That's epidemiology for you. It's infinitely easier when you can trace it back to one Patient Zero. When you have a dozen or so patients presenting with symptoms all at once as in Sierra Leone, it's already too late for the whole process of tracing back everyone who was in contact and quarantining them. Nigeria was not a shining example of Ebola containment; 11 hospital workers became infected from coming into contact with that patient. They were just more prepared to act on the Ebola threat because it had already happened elsewhere.

Either way, the Texas college thing is dumb as hell.

[rowech]

Want to put some $$ on it?

I can't win that bet either way. If I lose, I'm out the money and if I win, I made the money off of people dying. Doesn't seem good karma.

[BillJasper]

If we exceed 10 deaths in the US I'll be very surprised

I think we will exceed that total. Americans are stubborn.

[timmae]

Shocking how ill prepared some healthcare professionals are for certain things. They are supposed to be professionals. If you are an issue, say something. The hospital in Texas sounds like a circus.

[Breeze]

I read a report that said the CDC knew she was one of the nurses who treated him on his return visit prior to the official diagnosis, when he was vomiting.

They also gave her permission to go to Cleveland, even though they were monitoring her.

Are they just trying to tempt fate?

I also like how it completely contradicts Frieden's assertion that she shouldn't have flown.

Actually just the opposite is what I heard. She was ordered not to travel anywhere for at least 3 weeks, and to avoid airports completely (traveling or not)...

[Breeze]

From CBS:


Quote:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that Vinson called the agency several times before flying, saying that she had a fever with a temperature of 99.5 degrees. But because her fever wasn't 100.4 degrees or higher, she didn't officially fall into the group of "high risk" and was allowed to fly.



Words escape me. What's the point of having a CDC if their "monitoring" of a situation borders on criminal negligence?

If this happened, it wasn't the person coordinating the CDC response efforts, as I mentioned above, the response team is the one that instructed her not to travel. If she really did get the ok to go to Cleveland, then it came from someone lower down on the totem pole taking it upon himself to make a decision, or by someone higher up in the organization that didn't feel the need to inform the response team.

[DaddyTorgo]

I can't win that bet either way. If I lose, I'm out the money and if I win, I made the money off of people dying. Doesn't seem good karma.

I see. What if we paid each other off in a donation to charity? Still not willing to put your money where your mouth is?

[Lathum]

Actually just the opposite is what I heard. She was ordered not to travel anywhere for at least 3 weeks, and to avoid airports completely (traveling or not)...

wouldn' she be put on the no fly list if that was the case?

[jeff061]

wouldn' she be put on the no fly list if that was the case?

You think the different departments(CDC and I'm assuming Homeland/TSA) are working that seamlessly together? I sure as hell don't.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Shocking how ill prepared some healthcare professionals are for certain things. They are supposed to be professionals. If you are an issue, say something. The hospital in Texas sounds like a circus.

As I've watched my social media feed fill up this week with one healthcare pro after another bitching about the CDC and defending the nurse, I've been struck by a simple thought:

The CDC being inaccurate/insufficient/inept with their guidelines to hospitals / healthcare workers AND the nurse in this case royally f'ing up are NOT mutually exclusive.

That point seems to be getting lost on a lot of nurses I know right now.

[RainMaker]

After my Mom spent a month in the hospital a few years ago and my Dad recently spent two weeks in a hospital, I'm not surprised at all that there are issues in handling this.

I was blown away by the lack of attention to detail in hospitals, the lack of cleanliness, and the lack of urgency from anyone. These were good hospitals too. Now maybe my expectations were a little higher than they should have been going in, but I can tell you it's not as procedural as they make it seem in the media.