Ray Rice Video Released

[Logan]

Video of Rice knocking out his then-fiancee has leaked. It's awful. How he's playing this season is beyond me.

Ray Rice -- ELEVATOR KNOCKOUT ... Fiancee Takes Crushing Punch (Video) | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/)

[Kodos]

Yep. He should never play another down.

[Desnudo]

Yep. He should never play another down.

The apologists in the Ravens front office should be forced to resign as well.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I think we knew Ray Rice was a piece of trash.

My question is, Goodell watched this, and felt 2 games was appropriate? We all thought he was trash, too, but he confirmed it with this.

[TroyF]

Video of Rice knocking out his then-fiancee has leaked. It's awful. How he's playing this season is beyond me.

Ray Rice -- ELEVATOR KNOCKOUT ... Fiancee Takes Crushing Punch (Video) | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/)


sickening does not even begin to explain my thoughts. The NFL and the Ravens organization should be ashamwd of themselves

[BillJasper]

Video of Rice knocking out his then-fiancee has leaked. It's awful. How he's playing this season is beyond me.

Ray Rice -- ELEVATOR KNOCKOUT ... Fiancee Takes Crushing Punch (Video) | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/)

Wow. The NFL and Baltimore Ravens have really dropped the proverbial ball on this one. Two games? I don't think six games would be enough based on the video.

[BillJasper]

NFL and the Ravens both say they never saw the video from inside the elevator:

Video of Ray Rice Incident with Wife Janay Palmer Leaked by TMZ | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2190975-video-of-ray-rice-incident-with-wife-janay-palmer-leaked-by-tmz)

[Lathum]

Video of Rice knocking out his then-fiancee has leaked. It's awful. How he's playing this season is beyond me.

Ray Rice -- ELEVATOR KNOCKOUT ... Fiancee Takes Crushing Punch (Video) | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/)

Further proof that you can never really know these guys. I have been a huge Rice fan since his days at Rutgers and he turns out to be a piece of shit.

How the NFL saw this video and only gave him 2 games, assuming they saw it, is beyond comprehension.

[Lathum]

dola- how is he not charged with a crime?

[henry296]

dola- how is he not charged with a crime?

He was charged with a crime and reached a plea agreement with the DA to avoid jail time.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola- how is he not charged with a crime?

Fiance refused to press charges I guess - assume he bought her off?

Maybe they don't have the kind of law where the DA can press charges without the victim's consent in domestic violence cases (don't some states have laws like that)?

[DaddyTorgo]

He was charged with a crime and reached a plea agreement with the DA to avoid jail time.

Fucking DA's office. Complicit in this bullshit.

[Travis]

Yeah, assuming the team/league are being honest about not having seen this until today.

- Where was this video all along? How was this not a part of the earlier processes?

- How does TMZ get this before the league/team potentially the police?

- Given the league already made a ruling, can they revisit due to "new" evidence or would any supplemental punishment have to come from the team at this point? I'd imagine the statements from both parties are in an effort to open the door to be able to revisit the current punishment.

[Logan]

The police/prosecutors definitely had the video. The NFL allegedly asked them for it, but were denied.

Of course, if you believed Peter King back when the suspension was handed down, the league and the team did see the video (http://deadspin.com/someone-is-lying-about-whether-the-nfl-saw-the-ray-rice-1631901404).

[DaddyTorgo]

The police/prosecutors definitely had the video. The NFL allegedly asked them for it, but were denied.

Of course, if you believed Peter King back when the suspension was handed down, the league and the team did see the video (http://deadspin.com/someone-is-lying-about-whether-the-nfl-saw-the-ray-rice-1631901404).

Yup!

[Lathum]

- Given the league already made a ruling, can they revisit due to "new" evidence or would any supplemental punishment have to come from the team at this point? I'd imagine the statements from both parties are in an effort to open the door to be able to revisit the current punishment.

I suspect the NFLPA would lose their minds

[Chief Rum]

The police/prosecutors definitely had the video. The NFL allegedly asked them for it, but were denied.

Of course, if you believed Peter King back when the suspension was handed down, the league and the team did see the video (http://deadspin.com/someone-is-lying-about-whether-the-nfl-saw-the-ray-rice-1631901404).

Glazer told the DP show that no one besides law enforcement related individuals and Ray Rice's defense team had seen the video back when the suspension was handed out. I was surprised that no one seemed to pick up on that or discuss it (not here, I mean in the general media).

[Travis]

I suspect the NFLPA would lose their minds

In this instance, would they? You already have at least one active NFL player speaking out saying that Rice should receive way harsher punishment (Knighton) and if they make a big stand in favor of Rice, I would hope they'd be blasted by both the players and fans for doing so.

Not saying it won't happen, but if this evidence truly hadn't been seen before, I would hope they'd want tougher punishment as well. Could see them contesting the league on what that might mean, but I hope they wouldn't see 2 games as fitting for this.

And yes, I know that's likely all entirely too naive :(

[TroyF]

I keep going back to the tweet by the ravens. Jeanae takes full responsibility and regrets hera part in the incident.

If rice presented it is though his girlfriend was attacking him and he acted out of instant emotion then he clearly lied. Then I think the NFL could actually do something

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Txt'ing with team officials around NFL, they predict Ravens will cut Ray Rice. &quot;Have to.&quot; Not sure anyone would pick him up.</p>&mdash; Dan Wetzel (@DanWetzel) <a href="https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/509009393250488320">September 8, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Are the Ravens even able to cut him cap wise though?

[Logan]

I keep going back to the tweet by the ravens. Jeanae takes full responsibility and regrets hera part in the incident.

If rice presented it is though his girlfriend was attacking him and he acted out of instant emotion then he clearly lied. Then I think the NFL could actually do something

Can't search for the quote now (it may have been on Deadspin in the "someone is lying" article they have posted) but what I saw indicated that Rice walked them through the story just as presented in the video.

[Ben E Lou]

New thread.

[Logan]

Good idea Ben.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thanks Ben.

[Julio Riddols]

So did she do anything to him first? I don't want to watch this, because I feel like I might end up super angry.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So did she do anything to him first? I don't want to watch this, because I feel like I might end up super angry.

I believe that's been the implied scenario (based on the "accepting responsibility for my actions" quote that was released) but I don't know that there's ever been any video released to prove it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's interesting to compare what happened to Ray Rice, one an employee of a company, and the CEO of Centerplate, the CEO of a company.

The CEO of Centerplate is caught on camera kicking and choking a friend's dog in an elevator and is quickly forced to resign from the company he helped create.

Ray Rice is caught on camera knocking out his wife with a vicious punch in an elevator and... gets two games.

I know it's always hard to compare "real life" with "sports", but I think it's a pretty strong comparison and reflects poorly on the NFL.

[Ben E Lou]

Report: Ray Rice losing support in Ravens locker room | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/08/report-ray-rice-losing-support-in-ravens-locker-room/)

[Calis]

Against my better judgement I decided to watch it, for those asking it does look like she slapped him outside the elevator and inside it also? Hard to tell because video is so janky, can't gauge exactly what's happening. He didn't initiate the physical confrontation but definitely escalated it.

Really bad part is even apart from the obvious hitting a women portion is how little he have a crap after she was knocked out. Essentially no reaction until he drags her out of the elevator.

I will never understand relationships like this. I'm sure this isn't a fluke occurence, just so out of my zone of the crap I want to deal with in life I can't fathom it.

[DaddyTorgo]

I believe that's been the implied scenario (based on the "accepting responsibility for my actions" quote that was released) but I don't know that there's ever been any video released to prove it.

Didn't she slap him? I thought I read that in a recap of the video...

Not that that justifies it obviously.

[path12]

I drafted him on three teams as a sleeper. Now I feel like an asshole.

[nol]

1. Which new rule will have the most impact to the 2014 NFL Season?

I decided to lump a bunch of results of "defensive holding" and similar responses all into the "Illegal Contact" umbrella.

Illegal Contact - 15
Unsportsmanlike conduct for goalpost dunk - 4
Low Blocks - 2
Domestic Violence, Trash Talk, Replay Fumbles - 1


If only we had done IWS a week later.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Didn't she slap him? I thought I read that in a recap of the video...

May very well have, I've not invested more than a fairly cursory look at the story frankly. Since that had been downplayed to such an extent I was (mis?)remembering that it wasn't on the video.

[Chief Rum]

I will never understand relationships like this. I'm sure this isn't a fluke occurence, just so out of my zone of the crap I want to deal with in life I can't fathom it.

Yeah, me neither. I also watched, and I remember thinking when all I could see was her foot still in the elevator was, what is taking so long and why is he dragging her that way? Of course, we saw the other side of that, so I know what's going on, but I was also of the opinion then that I didn't understand how you drag someone you supposedly love like that when they are hurt. Even if you're the one who did the hurting. Wouldn't you pick her up off of the ground? Carry her in your arms?

I want Rice to play again. Why? I suspect those defensive players who actually care and love their wives/GFs/etc. will just lay down the hurting.

[TroyF]

Can't search for the quote now (it may have been on Deadspin in the "someone is lying" article they have posted) but what I saw indicated that Rice walked them through the story just as presented in the video.

If that is true and he didn't try to spin the "she was hitting me and I overreacted" line, everyone associated with this investigation needs to be fired. A clean house of anyone who knowingly understood he just cold cocked his fiance and dropped her because she was in a pissy mood. That means Ravens management, coaches, Goodell and any advisers or legal council that knew. All of them. Wipe them out.

If Ray tried the "she was all over me and I overreacted" bit and she supported him through the BS, suspend him for life.

People say I'm black and white on issues. This one is a no brainer for me. Heads need to roll and they need to roll fast. I think the prosecutor needs to be investigated as well. Charges of assault against both her and Rice? Ummm, no, you are an idiot. The grand jury said this was a felony and they are right. You should have prosecuted him like it was one.

I don't say this a lot because I think papparazzi are fairly despicable, but good on TMZ on this one.

[Logan]

Supposedly he spit in her face which led to one of her slaps at him.

[larrymcg421]

Not sure if this is true (read it on Twitter), but if the NFL's only interview with her was while Ray Rice was present, then I hope whoever led the investigation and/or let that happen never works any kind of meaningful job again.

[lungs]

I drafted him on three teams as a sleeper. Now I feel like an asshole.

Fantasy leagues everywhere ought to sanction the owners that drafted Ray Rice.

[Logan]

Following up on what I wrote to Troy...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ravens officials had not seen this Rice video prior to today but he had described actions in detail. Didn't &quot;sugarcoat&quot; it source said...</p>&mdash; Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/508975439013232640">September 8, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>So while the actual footage today was new to the Ravens visually, the description Rice gave them was in line with what the video displayed</p>&mdash; Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/508975593711763456">September 8, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[path12]

Fantasy leagues everywhere ought to sanction the owners that drafted Ray Rice.

I'm sanctioning myself and cutting him preemptively. I still feel like an asshole though.

[Logan]

On Reporting Ray Rice | The MMQB with Peter King (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-nfl-domestic-violence-video-peter-king/)

This is some fantastic backtracking:

An addendum to the Ray Rice coverage:

Earlier this summer a source I trusted told me he assumed the NFL had seen the damaging video that was released by TMZ on Monday morning of Rice slugging his then-fiancée, Janay Palmer, in an Atlantic City elevator. The source said league officials had to have seen it. This source has been impeccable, and I believed the information. So I wrote that the league had seen the tape. I should have called the NFL for a comment, a lapse in reporting on my part. The league says it has not seen the tape, and I cannot refute that with certainty. No one from the league has ever knocked down my report to me, and so I was surprised to see the claim today that league officials have not seen the tape.

I hope when this story is fully vetted, we all get the truth and nothing but the truth.

And not just the horrible choice of words, but apparently it was the league's fault that his incorrect story didn't get fixed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not sure if this is true (read it on Twitter), but if the NFL's only interview with her was while Ray Rice was present, then I hope whoever led the investigation and/or let that happen never works any kind of meaningful job again.

Right or wrong I recall hearing that same bit of info ... but I also seem to recall hearing/reading that who was present was at her insistence.

This was not a criminal investigation (by the NFL) so their ability to dictate the terms is somewhat limited.

[miami_fan]

I want Rice to play again. Why? I suspect those defensive players who actually care and love their wives/GFs/etc. will just lay down the hurting.

They would also get a longer suspension than he got!

[Chief Rum]

They would also get a longer suspension than he got!

As long as they're not smoking pot or taking adderall, though, they'll be back this season.

[larrymcg421]

Does it matter whether the NFL saw the video or not? Here are the scenarios I see:

1) They saw the video and made an absurd judgement based on it.
2) They didn't see the video because they couldn't find it.
3) They didn't see the video because they didn't look for it.

I'm not sure #2 or #3 are any better than #1, especially since I'm hearing that Rice told them everything that was in the video.

[bhlloy]

Goodell should resign. Absolutely gutless decision that shows he's not fit to lead an organization like the NFL. Unfortunately the owners won't give a shit as long as he's still lining their pockets

[DaddyTorgo]

Hell, even NFL-shill Adam Schefter is taking the league to task for this now.

Reporters turning on the hand that feeds them = you know it's bad.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's a league that effectively canonized a killer upon his recent retirement.

I'm pretty sure they really don't care -- nor does society frankly -- about this.

edit to add (hit post too quick) ... at least not enough to take away a star player.

[Lathum]

Cut per ESPN

[DaddyTorgo]

It's a league that effectively canonized a killer upon his recent retirement.

I'm pretty sure they really don't care -- nor does society frankly -- about this.

It's the same team too - no small coincidence.

Disgraceful organization.

[kingfc22]

Rice released.

[cartman]

The Ravens have cut Ray Rice

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24701246/ravens-release-ray-rice

[claphamsa]

ravens cut rice... since no one read the previous 4 posts :D

[claphamsa]

wish this had come out a day earlier... would have made yesterdays game so much more fun.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yep. The P.R. department is ecstatic.

[BillJasper]

I think that video has essentially ended Ray Rice's career.

[DaddyTorgo]

Funny - I thought I heard that on the TV in the other room so I put it in my post, and then I figured I had to be hearing it wrong so I edited it out...haha.

[Lathum]

dola- situations like these are going to be tough for the NFL to police. What woman is going to come forward and report something like this when her husbands, and by proxy her, livlihood is at stake?

[JonInMiddleGA]

dola- situations like these are going to be tough for the NFL to police. What woman is going to come forward and repert something like this when her husbands, and by proxy her, livlihood is at stake?

By the same token, the escalation of b.s. claims by golddiggers just went into high gear.

Salaries will have to go up just to cover the blackmail expenses.

[claphamsa]

all things being equal, hes still a better person than Rapelessburger

[DaddyTorgo]

dola- situations like these are going to be tough for the NFL to police. What woman is going to come forward and report something like this when her husbands, and by proxy her, livlihood is at stake?

She shouldn't have gone through with it and married the guy after what he did. I obviously don't condone her getting beat up, but it was her continued poor decisions in the aftermath of that that yoked her to him voluntarily (and she could always get a divorce).

I understand the psychology behind it, but it's hard to feel a ton of sympathy for someone who goes back to an abuser and even deepens the relationship. Particularly someone in the public eye who has the opportunity to take a meaningful stand.

[BillJasper]

By the same token, the escalation of b.s. claims by golddiggers just went into high gear.

Salaries will have to go up just to cover the blackmail expenses.

This is a terrible way to look at this. Ray Rice knocked out his girlfriend and this story should stay solely focused on what happened here.

[larrymcg421]

dola- situations like these are going to be tough for the NFL to police. What woman is going to come forward and report something like this when her husbands, and by proxy her, livlihood is at stake?

Which is why you don't interview a domestic abuse victim when her abuser is present.

[DaddyTorgo]

Can we get an edit to the thread title?

I suggest - Ray Rice (Video) Released

[SteveMax58]

Hell, even NFL-shill Adam Schefter is taking the league to task for this now.

Reporters turning on the hand that feeds them = you know it's bad.
Yeah the coverage is (rightfully so) crazy.

This is one of those situations that astounds me. I mean, the Ravens were all "he made a mistake" and "what he did was terrible" but "deserves a chance to redeem himself". Now that the video is out, they cut him.

Assuming they didn't see it already....what exactly did they expect to see in the video to make them reverse course? Ray NOT knocking out a woman? The aftermath of her body being drug out of the elevator should have been all you'd need to see to (presumably) understand that what caused that wasn't going to be pretty.

[Coffee Warlord]

Cut per ESPN

There's only one team in the league that will touch him now. The only team that apparently gives absolutely zero fucks about bad PR.

Ray Rice is going to Washington.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is a terrible way to look at this. Ray Rice knocked out his girlfriend and this story should stay solely focused on what happened here.

{shrug} It's a very realistic part of the bigger picture afaic.

[SteveMax58]

Which is why you don't interview a domestic abuse victim when her abuser is present.
Or anybody in front of their (presumed) attacker for that matter.

[BillJasper]

{shrug} It's a very realistic part of the bigger picture afaic.

What? Some people are shitty? Well, that was a shocking revelation on your part, no one would've figured it out on their own. But there are easier ways to grab hold of a portion of an athletes earnings, than getting knocked out.

Domestic violence is something the NFL needs to take seriously.

[miami_fan]

Yeah the coverage is (rightfully so) crazy.

This is one of those situations that astounds me. I mean, the Ravens were all "he made a mistake" and "what he did was terrible" but "deserves a chance to redeem himself". Now that the video is out, they cut him.

Assuming they didn't see it already....what exactly did they expect to see in the video to make them reverse course? Ray NOT knocking out a woman? The aftermath of her body being drug out of the elevator should have been all you'd need to see to (presumably) understand that what caused that wasn't going to be pretty.

It is not what they expected to see. Remember he described what happened to them in great detail. He was cut because they did not expect us to see the full video.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What? Some people are shitty? Well, that was a shocking revelation on your part, no one would've figured it out on their own. But there are easier ways to grab hold of a portion of an athletes earnings, than getting knocked out. Domestic violence is something the NFL needs to take seriously.

There's some victims at Duke who might have a different view of whether there's a valid bigger picture that is also at least noteworthy.

[Travis]

Will be interesting to see how the situation in SF plays out now. Assuming no video surfaces of that incident, will McDonald keep his job? Unfortunately the legal process likely won't help much given the example in the Rice situation (and many others) and while 1/2 to 3/4 of the team was apparently at the house when it happened, they all say they weren't around McDonald when it apparently happened.

Sad that these are the headlines but maybe a focus on them will lead to some of the guys who have anger issues to seek help.

And now to see what the NFL and NFLPA do. Can't imagine the NFL can sit back and figure the Rice situation is taken care of now.

[BillJasper]

Rice suspended indefinitely by the NFL.

[SteveMax58]

It is not what they expected to see. Remember he described what happened to them in great detail. He was cut because they did not expect us to see the full video.
I think the media & general populace outrage is the part they didnt expect (not sure how though).

Thats all I'm confused about...as if the video wasnt going to show him laying out a woman cold. Maybe they thought she would look crazier or be caught hitting him repeatedly or something, but I'm not sure any of that would soften the image of him knocking her out.

[path12]

I don't believe for a moment that the NFL hadn't seen that tape. They had a million chances to clarify the reporting that said they had and didn't.

Fuckin' Goodell got caught trying to cover it up. And not a thing will happen with him. Gah.

[BillJasper]

I don't believe for a moment that the NFL hadn't seen that tape. They had a million chances to clarify the reporting that said they had and didn't.

Fuckin' Goodell got caught trying to cover it up. And not a thing will happen with him. Gah.

+1

I have a really hard time believing an organization as powerful as the NFL couldn't get ahold of the tape.

[miami_fan]

I think the media & general populace outrage is the part they didnt expect (not sure how though).

Thats all I'm confused about...as if the video wasnt going to show him laying out a woman cold. Maybe they thought she would look crazier or be caught hitting him repeatedly or something, but I'm not sure any of that would soften the image of him knocking her out.

Let's be honest. No video of the incident equals no outrage. I mean the outrage that came with the video of him dragging her out of the elevator was not enough to get him cut. Without video of the incident, you get Ray Mcdonald.

[Lathum]

She shouldn't have gone through with it and married the guy after what he did. I obviously don't condone her getting beat up, but it was her continued poor decisions in the aftermath of that that yoked her to him voluntarily (and she could always get a divorce).

I understand the psychology behind it, but it's hard to feel a ton of sympathy for someone who goes back to an abuser and even deepens the relationship. Particularly someone in the public eye who has the opportunity to take a meaningful stand.

Easy for you to say but I would venture to guess there are many women married to sports stars who tolerate stuff like this, as well as other transgression such as infidelity in return for the mega star lifestyle and riches.

What exactly would her meaningful stand be? Getting a job like the rest of us? You think that sounds appealing to her?

[Fidatelo]

A couple thoughts:

1) I don't quite understand why the video leaking has suddenly made this so much more outrageous. We all knew what happened without ever seeing that video. It was horrible enough to see him dragging her out of the elevator months ago. Dude should have been cut then, this shouldn't suddenly make everyone care more.

2) Do we as fans need to take a closer look at ourselves here? We laugh off drug suspensions due to "Adderall" and basically all acknowledge that these dudes are roided up monsters, and then we get all uppity when one of them goes berserk like, well, a monster? It's like when I take my kids somewhere and feed them full of sweets and junk food and then get upset when they start acting up. Sure maybe they should be able to handle it better but ultimately I didn't help by looking the other way as the deck got stacked.

[BillJasper]

A couple thoughts:

1) I don't quite understand why the video leaking has suddenly made this so much more outrageous. We all knew what happened without ever seeing that video. It was horrible enough to see him dragging her out of the elevator months ago. Dude should have been cut then, this shouldn't suddenly make everyone care more.

2) Do we as fans need to take a closer look at ourselves here? We laugh off drug suspensions due to "Adderall" and basically all acknowledge that these dudes are roided up monsters, and then we get all uppity when one of them goes berserk like, well, a monster? It's like when I take my kids somewhere and feed them full of sweets and junk food and then get upset when they start acting up. Sure maybe they should be able to handle it better but ultimately I didn't help by looking the other way as the deck got stacked.

+1

[Izulde]

It has to do with the immediacy and closeness of video, which is far greater than speech, which itself is a closer experience than text, which carries with it a kind of emotional distance and detachment, everything else being equal.

[bhlloy]

NFL players will just have to be careful to knock their girlfriends the fuck out somewhere that doesn't have surveillance cameras next time. Stunning hypocrisy from the team and the league

[SteveMax58]

Let's be honest. No video of the incident equals no outrage. I mean the outrage that came with the video of him dragging her out of the elevator was not enough to get him cut. Without video of the incident, you get Ray Mcdonald.
I guess for me, I see an unconscious woman being drug out of an elevator and I really dont have to see footage of how that happened (especially when he admitted it was his doing).

I guess this is just how it works though. The visual proof is what makes for new outrage (as opposed to the outrage previously).

[claphamsa]

I guess for me, I see an unconscious woman being drug out of an elevator and I really dont have to see footage of how that happened (especially when he admitted it was his doing).

I guess this is just how it works though. The visual proof is what makes for new outrage (as opposed to the outrage previously).

it gives them the excuse to backtrack and do what they should have done in the first place.

that being said, I wonder if I could think of 10 players in the NFL who did worse....

[miami_fan]

I guess for me, I see an unconscious woman being drug out of an elevator and I really dont have to see footage of how that happened (especially when he admitted it was his doing).

I guess this is just how it works though. The visual proof is what makes for new outrage (as opposed to the outrage previously).

I agree, so I guess that means I have to question the new outrage on the part of the Ravens and the NFL.

[mckerney]

NFL players will just have to be careful to knock their girlfriends the fuck out somewhere that doesn't have surveillance cameras next time. Stunning hypocrisy from the team and the league

What Rice did wasn't what the Ravens had a problem with, they kept him around even though the video apparently matches what Rice told them. Their only problem was the public reaction to seeing what he did.

[JPhillips]

What Rice did wasn't what the Ravens had a problem with, they kept him around even though the video apparently matches what Rice told them. Their only problem was the public reaction to seeing what he did.

This. The Ravens knew exactly what happened and were okay with it.

[nol]

A couple thoughts:

1) I don't quite understand why the video leaking has suddenly made this so much more outrageous. We all knew what happened without ever seeing that video. It was horrible enough to see him dragging her out of the elevator months ago. Dude should have been cut then, this shouldn't suddenly make everyone care more.

2) Do we as fans need to take a closer look at ourselves here? We laugh off drug suspensions due to "Adderall" and basically all acknowledge that these dudes are roided up monsters, and then we get all uppity when one of them goes berserk like, well, a monster? It's like when I take my kids somewhere and feed them full of sweets and junk food and then get upset when they start acting up. Sure maybe they should be able to handle it better but ultimately I didn't help by looking the other way as the deck got stacked.

I agree with both points. The outrage now is largely media-centric and comes from how most of the coverage at the time was dominated by talks of provocation and "Janay Rice says she deeply regrets the role she played the night of the incident." It created just enough ambiguity for the NFL to hand out a two-game suspension and try to keep everything else moving along.

The video's release demonstrates that either big-name journalists like Peter King who played a major role in framing the initial coverage are complete shills who accepted the company line from a third-party source and did no further questioning or the NFL, from the top down, was lying from the outset and just counting on the second video never being released.

[DaddyTorgo]

Easy for you to say but I would venture to guess there are many women married to sports stars who tolerate stuff like this, as well as other transgression such as infidelity in return for the mega star lifestyle and riches.

What exactly would her meaningful stand be? Getting a job like the rest of us? You think that sounds appealing to her?

Meaningful stand against domestic violence I meant.

And yes - I know it's easy for me to say and I agree with your point about many women married to sports stars who tolerate transgressions that others wouldn't. Doesn't mean that we should be okay with that or say "oh that's okay...you've got your money." Society/these women should set the standard with these men that that type of behavior isn't acceptable, instead of letting them get away with crap.

[Lathum]

Meaningful stand against domestic violence I meant.

And yes - I know it's easy for me to say and I agree with your point about many women married to sports stars who tolerate transgressions that others wouldn't. Doesn't mean that we should be okay with that or say "oh that's okay...you've got your money." Society/these women should set the standard with these men that that type of behavior isn't acceptable, instead of letting them get away with crap.

But how do they do that?

No one is saying we as a society should be OK with it, or that they should tolerate it, but the reality is you can't take a stand against something without exploiting it, and by exploiting it their husband, fiance, etc...losses his job and the huge paycheck that comes with it.

So is losing all that orth it to these women to take a stand? My guess is in most cases no.

[chinaski]

Gotta love people who immediately start talking about the very rare instances someone has lied about being assaulted for monetary gain, in comparison to the very real and overwhelmingly more frequent occurrence of domestic violence. Disgusting.

[DaddyTorgo]

But how do they do that?

No one is saying we as a society should be OK with it, or that they should tolerate it, but the reality is you can't take a stand against something without exploiting it, and by exploiting it their husband, fiance, etc...losses his job and the huge paycheck that comes with it.

So is losing all that orth it to these women to take a stand? My guess is in most cases no.

If they're married they can get divorced. They'll either get some sort of alimony payment or something. If they're not married they should get out before they get hurt worse.

That being said - I recognize that I'm living in a fantasy world and can't hope to understand what they're going to because (STEREOTYPE ALERT) (a) I'm not a woman, and (b) I'm not poor and don't view this as my only chance for me and my kids to have a financially secure future.

[SackAttack]

How is the Ray Rice "indefinite suspension" not double jeopardy? I would think the NFLPA would have negotiated something in the CBA to prevent players from getting suspended twice for the same offense.

[Lathum]

Gotta love people who immediately start talking about the very rare instances someone has lied about being assaulted for monetary gain, in comparison to the very real and overwhelmingly more frequent occurrence of domestic violence. Disgusting.

What is disgusting about it? It is all part of the dialogue. Would be a boring conversation if we all just posted how disgusting we think it is. There are a lot of disagreements on this board, but I think we can all agree his behavior is deplorable. Why can't we discuss other angles?

[cartman]

How is the Ray Rice "indefinite suspension" not double jeopardy? I would think the NFLPA would have negotiated something in the CBA to prevent players from getting suspended twice for the same offense.

Because they aren't the Federal Government.

[DaddyTorgo]

How is the Ray Rice "indefinite suspension" not double jeopardy? I would think the NFLPA would have negotiated something in the CBA to prevent players from getting suspended twice for the same offense.

Apparently they didn't?

Or there's some "new evidence that changes the severity of the crime" clause or something probably.

[Fidatelo]

The more I think on it the more I'm actually disappointed that the Ravens have just released him. I'd find it far more acceptable if they said "look, it's bad. We knew it when he told us. However, we felt then and we feel now that based on the contrition Ray showed, the support from his wife, and his promise to complete rehabilitation programs X and Y and sensitivity training and (insert various community service programs) that Ray deserves the chance to make amends, make a better man of himself, and support his loved ones, including his wife who ultimately is the true victim here. In the months since Ray has done nothing to lead us to believe that he has not stepped up in every manner possible to atone for his actions and proceed in a positive direction."

Instead, they were like "oh shit, that video got out? Damn. Umm, Ray, look you gotta go.".

[chinaski]

What is disgusting about it? It is all part of the dialogue. Would be a boring conversation if we all just posted how disgusting we think it is. There are a lot of disagreements on this board, but I think we can all agree his behavior is deplorable. Why can't we discuss other angles?

Who in their right mind sees a woman get knocked out and then says "well damn, this is really going to make it hard on NFL players in the future because now more women will be all crying assault to make some cash"? That did not happen here, so why even bring that up? Its not part of any rational conversation. Its not boring to all agree this is a horrible act, it makes me hopeful for society. Until someone starts talking about Duke lacrosse.

[ISiddiqui]

The NFL thought the Ray Rice video was a firing offense. Fox News thought it was aÂ*joke. - Vox (http://www.vox.com/2014/9/8/6122877/ray-rice-wife-new-video-fox-friends-joke-stairs)

In the space of time between those events, Fox and Friends, a television show featuring inoffensive furniture and hosts who often say dumb things, decided it was a good idea to crack jokes about the stomach-churning video.

"I think the message is, take the stairs" host Brian Kilmeade said out loud, joking about the footage that shows Rice punching his now wife out cold, and dragging her unconscious body out of the room. Kilmeade wasn't the only one cracking jokes.

"The message is, when you're in an elevator, there's a camera," co-host Steve Doocey chimed in.

Stay classy Fox and Friends.

[JPhillips]

The more I think on it the more I'm actually disappointed that the Ravens have just released him. I'd find it far more acceptable if they said "look, it's bad. We knew it when he told us. However, we felt then and we feel now that based on the contrition Ray showed, the support from his wife, and his promise to complete rehabilitation programs X and Y and sensitivity training and (insert various community service programs) that Ray deserves the chance to make amends, make a better man of himself, and support his loved ones, including his wife who ultimately is the true victim here. In the months since Ray has done nothing to lead us to believe that he has not stepped up in every manner possible to atone for his actions and proceed in a positive direction."

Instead, they were like "oh shit, that video got out? Damn. Umm, Ray, look you gotta go.".

The amount of money in jeopardy to keep a guy well past his prime makes it a very easy decision for the team. Hopefully they would make that decision based on morality, but they didn't, so money will have to do.

[larrymcg421]

She shouldn't have gone through with it and married the guy after what he did. I obviously don't condone her getting beat up, but it was her continued poor decisions in the aftermath of that that yoked her to him voluntarily (and she could always get a divorce).

I understand the psychology behind it, but it's hard to feel a ton of sympathy for someone who goes back to an abuser and even deepens the relationship. Particularly someone in the public eye who has the opportunity to take a meaningful stand.

Um, what? This post is as ignorant and offensive as the "I don't feel sorry for dead drug users" posts. You said you understood the psychology behind it, but then contradicted it with everything else you said in the post. You're one of the last people I'd expect to post this kind of drivel.

[molson]

The emotional control in an abusive relationship can be so much powerful than the fear of losing money or whatever. It's really kind of horrifying when you see it up close, the rationalizations that this abuse creates. I used to meet with domestic violence victims all the time - the county I worked in tried to make it one-stop-shop kind of thing, the victims could receive information and access to available government services, and at the same time, the prosecutor could inform them of their rights as a crime victim, and to ascertain whether this person was going to actually testify for the state in any trial. Usually, they didn't want to. More often than not, they wanted the charges dropped. That stops a lot of coward prosecutors, for sure. It's not so much the fear of losing, it's just that domestic violence prosecutions without a cooperating witness usually means a trial, and trial means lots of work, and prosecutors aren't paid by the hour. Especially when you're facing a Ray Rice legal team that would no doubt file dozens of pre-trial motions. The true believer prosecutor though would prosecute these cases without a cooperating witness (when there was strong evidence, like this case), and often refuse to offer a plea bargain at all.

[PilotMan]

The thing I want to know is how complicit was the NFL in compelling Janay to accept her role in the incident in order to minimize the overall impact? I mean, the Ravens twitter account basically said "hey she said she did some stuff too."

We have a situation here where she probably felt compelled to go along with Rice in order to minimize the damage to him and to the team. How much pressure did she get put under in order to do that? That's not been discussed at all.

It's totally unacceptable that it took this long for her to get some backup here. As for why would she marry him? Ping Hope Solo. Maybe she can help out here. We all knew what happened in the elevator. The end result should have been all the proof that was necessary. To go back now and say that NOW it's a big deal is dumb. It's giving the NFL the opportunity to go back on their admitted mistake and have some reason for it to try and save face.

Fuck them, they had the chance in the beginning and still get no credit from me. This is just an opportunity of convenience.

[DaddyTorgo]

Um, what? This post is as ignorant and offensive as the "I don't feel sorry for dead drug users" posts. You said you understood the psychology behind it, but then contradicted it with everything else you said in the post. You're one of the last people I'd expect to post this kind of drivel.

No - I mean I understand it (as much as someone who is a guy and has never been in an abusive relationship can I guess). It's just frustrating when confronted by the reality of it, so I guess my post was more of a venting of the frustration.

[SackAttack]

Because they aren't the Federal Government.

Which is why I explicitly used the word 'negotiated,' because I recognize that the Constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy doesn't necessarily apply here; even so, I would expect a player's union to try to protect its players against such.

Apparently they didn't?

Or there's some "new evidence that changes the severity of the crime" clause or something probably.

But again, everything I've read suggests that Rice told the NFL exactly what he did and didn't - begging your pardon - pull any punches in doing so. If that is true, the video isn't "new evidence" so much as "oh shit embarrassing revelation" that prevents the NFL from sweeping the whole thing under the rug. If he relayed events exactly as they went down, and got suspended for two games, there is nothing in that video that changes the severity of the infraction except for ACTUALLY SEEING HIM HIT HER.

Don't get me wrong. I have no issue with Rice serving an indefinite suspension and I think that should have been the penalty to begin with. But the way the NFL is going about this screams 'double jeopardy' to me and is bullshit. The NFLPA should be protesting or taking this to court not in order to defend an abuser, but to avoid establishing a precedent for future cases of a player getting suspended twice for the same infraction (especially since Goodell is judge, jury, executioner, and appeals panel all in one).

[Lathum]

Who in their right mind sees a woman get knocked out and then says "well damn, this is really going to make it hard on NFL players in the future because now more women will be all crying assault to make some cash"? That did not happen here, so why even bring that up? Its not part of any rational conversation. Its not boring to all agree this is a horrible act, it makes me hopeful for society. Until someone starts talking about Duke lacrosse.

I didn't really read his comment in that context but I think it does belong as part of the conversation about how this effects omens actions in these situations moving forward.

I didn't read his comment as a reaction to the video, more as a reaction to the conversation we were all having.

[ISiddiqui]

Double jeopardy? Did the NFL suspend him more?

[DaddyTorgo]

Double jeopardy? Did the NFL suspend him more?

Yes - indefinitely.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes - indefinitely.

LOL. Sorry, that's just so blatantly cynical by the NFL (no team is going to sign him) its funny.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL. Sorry, that's just so blatantly cynical by the NFL (no team is going to sign him) its funny.

Oh I agree.

[larrymcg421]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uh7Qhc_LX18" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't know what I find most disgusting about that video - the jokes the two guys made or the giggling of the woman sitting between them.

Fucking FOX.

[TroyF]

Everyone keeps stating Rice did not pull any punches and told the Ravens and the league exactly what he did. Despite the reporters statements, I have a tough time believing them. The press conference was nothing but Ray and Janae both taking blame. We could all see a scenario where she goes off the rails clawing, slapping, kicking and he throws a shot to get her off, right? No, I am not saying that would be ok. I am only saying that is where she would acknowledge wrong doing and paint a scenario where they could say Ray waa wrong, nut there is another side.


The video shows there isn't another side. A left hook to the head. My guess is the nfl mor the Ravens had any idea of the real story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I didn't read his comment as a reaction to the video, more as a reaction to the conversation we were all having.

I would have figured that should have been obvious but apparently it wasn't.

I appreciate you phrasing it succinctly on my behalf.

[path12]

My guess is the nfl mor the Ravens had any idea of the real story.

EDIT: Redacted because I sound like a jerk here because frankly I'm mad at myself for buying the NFL line when this all first went down.

[nol]

Everyone keeps stating Rice did not pull any punches and told the Ravens and the league exactly what he did. Despite the reporters statements, I have a tough time believing them. The press conference was nothing but Ray and Janae both taking blame. We could all see a scenario where she goes off the rails clawing, slapping, kicking and he throws a shot to get her off, right? No, I am not saying that would be ok. I am only saying that is where she would acknowledge wrong doing and paint a scenario where they could say Ray waa wrong, nut there is another side.


The video shows there isn't another side. A left hook to the head. My guess is the nfl mor the Ravens had any idea of the real story.

No, people were aware from the beginning that there was additional footage from inside the elevator.

There is one other thing I did not write or refer to, and that is the other videotape the NFL and some Ravens officials have seen, from the security camera inside the elevator at the time of the physical altercation between Rice and his fiancée. I have heard reports of what is on the video, but because I could not confirm them and because of the sensitivity of the case, I never speculated on the video in my writing, because I don’t think it is fair in an incendiary case like this one to use something I cannot confirm with more than one person. I cannot say any more, because I did not see the tape. I saw only the damning tape of Rice pulling his unconscious fiancée out of the elevator.

This is Peter King back in July, essentially saying "the first video looks really bad, but sources (edit: actually one source) from the NFL/Ravens told me there's something in the second video that makes a two-game suspension a sufficiently strict punishment, and I'll just take their word for it."

[TCY Junkie]

How is this news, he admitted to knocking her out long time ago?

[digamma]

We saw the TMZ video of what happened outside—when he was dragging her out unconscious—but inside, I'm told from those who have seen the video, it wasn't pretty. In fact, she attacks him—we don't know the reason why—and he strikes her, strikes her hard. And her head—according to the sources I've spoken to—struck the rail inside the elevator and she was unconscious.

That is from Chris Mortenson on the Mike & Mike Show on July 23. Aside from the "she attacks him" it is a pretty spot on description of the video.

[Toddzilla]

His story was that he was viciously attacked and he was defending himself. And even after seeing the video we all saw today that totally contradicts that ridiculous assertion, the NFL went light on him and the Ravens supported him, even going so far as to blame his fiancee/wife for the matter.

[molson]

And part of the ambiguity of the whole thing was that BOTH Rice and his fiance were arrested (and the fiance was actually charged, briefly, with misdemeanor assault). So it could be spun as a mutual combat thing.

[Desnudo]

I don't know what I find most disgusting about that video - the jokes the two guys made or the giggling of the woman sitting between them.

Fucking FOX.

If his wife looked like the woman in the middle they'd be screaming for his head.

[mrtourette]

How is this news, he admitted to knocking her out long time ago?

Because it shows that he lied about the circumstances that lead to him knocking her out, and those circumstances were what kept his punishment at the laughably low level that it was.

[CraigSca]

From what I remember, I thought the story line was that he hit her, but that the impact against the rail (or wall) was the part that knocked her out. The line of thinking therefore, was that his hitting her wasn't that hard, maybe she was off balance, hit her head and was knocked out. Not sure why that should really matter, but seeing the video showed that wasn't true at all. Absolutely vicious and horrific. The guy should be in jail.

Question - was there video of Mike Vick's dogfighting?

[nol]

Because it shows that he lied about the circumstances that lead to him knocking her out, and those circumstances were what kept his punishment at the laughably low level that it was.

Yes, Ray Rice almost singlehandedly pulled a fast one on all of America. The NFL and the Ravens were in no way complicit in attempting to smear a domestic assault victim. Also, the casino with the elevator security footage and several reporters have all independently come up with the same lie about how the NFL had seen the video before deciding that a two-game suspension was appropriate.

A tough day for the NFL with all these people trying to attack its brand, but now they've dealt with the bad egg and everyone can get back to what matters: Monday Night doubleheader!!

[EagleFan]

Does it matter whether the NFL saw the video or not? Here are the scenarios I see:

1) They saw the video and made an absurd judgement based on it.
2) They didn't see the video because they couldn't find it.
3) They didn't see the video because they didn't look for it.

I'm not sure #2 or #3 are any better than #1, especially since I'm hearing that Rice told them everything that was in the video.

4. The asked for the video and the police wouldn't release it. The police were 100% correct to not release this to the employer.

Which is why you don't interview a domestic abuse victim when her abuser is present.

For a criminal investigation yes. This was not a criminal investigation, the NFL is not the law, it's the employer.

How is this news, he admitted to knocking her out long time ago?

Sounds like he admitted exactly what happened. Kind of shows that there was a "plea bargain" made at that time with the NFL for full disclosure. It is kind of disingenuous how the NFL backpedaled on this now that the video is out as nothing changed from what they were told/agreed to. It's a marketing hit now as they failed to understand that videos always get leaked eventually.

Because it shows that he lied about the circumstances that lead to him knocking her out, and those circumstances were what kept his punishment at the laughably low level that it was.

No, it shows that he told them exactly what happened based on everything that I have read.

[TroyF]

Yes, Ray Rice almost singlehandedly pulled a fast one on all of America. The NFL and the Ravens were in no way complicit in attempting to smear a domestic assault victim. Also, the casino with the elevator security footage and several reporters have all independently come up with the same lie about how the NFL had seen the video before deciding that a two-game suspension was appropriate.

A tough day for the NFL with all these people trying to attack its brand, but now they've dealt with the bad egg and everyone can get back to what matters: Monday Night doubleheader!!

1) Smear a domestic abuse victim - Well, she did a good job of that herself. By all accounts she begged the NFL to not suspend him and told anyone and everyone that she was a part of the problem. HER FATHER WAS AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND SUPPORTED RAY RICE. Think about that for a second before we just make this an NFL issue.

2) NFL seen video - As I said above in the thread. anyone who saw that video (not heard second hand accounts, saw the damned thing), and didn't do anything should lose their job. This includes the Ravens leadership, the NFL leadership, the prosecutor who made the decision to plea bargain the case and anyone else involved in any way.

3) I think, long term, this will end up as a good thing for ALL professional sports. We will never take this lightly again. It should have turned with the Chiefs player last year and didn't. It should have always been more than 2 games with Rice. Nobody can go back and change the past, but I think the brutality of this and seeing it will help long term.

4) The NFL is a business and a big one at that. Of course, it's going to try to turn the attention to games quickly. With that said, I think even the six game/lifetime ban thing will be tweaked a little bit. The NFL acted very poorly in this (and had already admitted that long before today) The Ravens organization has been widely bashed for years for how they sort of "overlook" anything so long as they win games. It's long overdue they get the bashing they deserve for those decisions.

[DaddyTorgo]

If his wife looked like the woman in the middle they'd be screaming for his head.

Of course. I 100% believe that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Someone said they wanted to see what Olberman would have to say?

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[cartman]

He can't play in Canada either.

Mark Cohon issues a statement regarding Ray Rice | CFL.ca | Official Site of the Canadian Football League (http://cfl.ca/article/mark-cohon-issues-a-statement-regarding-ray-rice)

[ColtCrazy]

I would love to say Ray Rice is banished from the league. Not because of the NFL indefinite suspension, but because of the media nightmare a team would have to endure if they signed him. But this is the league that have Leonard Little a second chance after manslaughter on a DUI. They gave Michael Vick a second chance. Jamal Lewis? Dante Stallworth? This isn't exactly a league that has a consistent track record on discipline.
As much as I hate Bill Simmons, I see his point in a column he wrote before the season started. The NFL is so big and so popular that many have a tendency to look the other way just so we can see football.

[TroyF]

Someone said they wanted to see what Olberman would have to say?

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God help me, I agreed with about 70% of that. The only things I disagreed with:

1) The NFL isn't irrelevant because Ray Rice and Goodall are idiots. Sorry, but it isn't the case. I'd say this if I wasn't a fan.

2) Goodall could not legally interview her by herself. He is an employer. He's not the police, the FBI, or the CIA. You can't hammer someone for doing something they could not legally do. (not that this has stopped this guy previously)

3) Sorry Kieth, but nobody is boycotting games. They don't do it when their college teams have horrific scandals and cover ups, they don't do it with players that kill, they don't do it with DUI's, there hasn't been mass boycotting over concussions. I agree it is a huge issue, but that's a pipe dream and he knows it. (were he on Sports Center now, would he refuse to talk about a Raven game? Of course not)

Other than that, there is a lot right with what he said. I said the same thing about the mass firings. They need to occur and occur quickly.

[DaddyTorgo]

I disagree with you on interviewing her separately. I mean...he couldn't enforce that legally, but he could certainly threaten and say "I want to talk to her alone. If you don't let me then I'm going to take that into account as evidence of you not cooperating."

I suppose we don't know how hard he tried to talk to her alone, but I have to think if I was him I'd say something along those lines, and then if RR didn't cooperate I'd drop the hammer a hell of a lot harder than 2 games.

[bhlloy]

Complete whitewash from Harbaugh, not that I'd expect anything different. Still pushing the company line

[EagleFan]

I disagree with you on interviewing her separately. I mean...he couldn't enforce that legally, but he could certainly threaten and say "I want to talk to her alone. If you don't let me then I'm going to take that into account as evidence of you not cooperating."

I suppose we don't know how hard he tried to talk to her alone, but I have to think if I was him I'd say something along those lines, and then if RR didn't cooperate I'd drop the hammer a hell of a lot harder than 2 games.

He can't interview her alone. It is not a police investigation, it is an employer. How would you like it if your employer had a discussion with someone accusing you of something without you in the room and based their decision on that?

[chadritt]

Honest question: when you say can't do you mean can't or that you wouldn't prefer?

[DaddyTorgo]

He can't interview her alone. It is not a police investigation, it is an employer. How would you like it if your employer had a discussion with someone accusing you of something without you in the room and based their decision on that?

Sure he can.

He can ask. He can imply threats.

There's nothing that says he can't do that.

In fact - this sort of thing happens with sexual harassment allegations all the time I'd assume (although I'm no corporate lawyer).

Now RR and/or the woman don't have to agree, but he's not legally prohibited from it.

In fact, as an employee RR definitely doesn't have the upper-hand in this situation (albeit he's got the NFLPA and we don't know what the restrictions contained in the NFLPA's agreement with the league are).

I don't think the word "can't" means what you think it means.

[EagleFan]

You're not thinking with your head here.

It is the NFL deciding what to do about an employee, not the police deciding what to do with a crime. An employer can interview the employee and any employees that are related to the incident.

The 3rd party has no bearing here. The legal ruling has already been made by the police, there is no further investigation for the NFL... THEY ARE NOT THE F*CKING POLICE...

[DaddyTorgo]

You're not thinking with your head here.

It is the NFL deciding what to do about an employee, not the police deciding what to do with a crime. An employer can interview the employee and any employees that are related to the incident.

The 3rd party has no bearing here. The legal ruling has already been made by the police, there is no further investigation for the NFL... THEY ARE NOT THE F*CKING POLICE...

What??

That's MY point. They're not the police. The only thing they're bound by are any relevant state/federal laws and the NFLPA/NFL contract/bylaws/whatever.

If there's nothing in there saying that they're prohibited from interviewing her alone (which AFAIK none of us know for sure) then by definition he CAN at least ask/pressure/whatever to interview her alone.

So either there is something - in which case you imagine the PR folks would have told him to make that clear, or else he didn't try hard enough/have any brains.

[Matthean]

He can't interview her alone. It is not a police investigation, it is an employer. How would you like it if your employer had a discussion with someone accusing you of something without you in the room and based their decision on that?

It's happened to me. Granted I got my time to speak alone with my employer, but in the end I got written up for it regardless of how ridiculous the accusation was.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's happened to me. Granted I got my time to speak alone with my employer, but in the end I got written up for it regardless of how ridiculous the accusation was.

Exactly.

[EagleFan]

What??

It's a matter between the NFL and Rice. The legal ruling was already made. The only thing the NFL needs to find out is Rice's side of it. From there they make their ruling. It is pretty straight forward.

Unless you think that your employer should start their own investigation on you if you ever have charges raised and subsequently dropped against you.


The NFL reached out to the police for the video and were turned down (which is the right move by the police since no charges pressed).

The NFL/Ravens talked to Rice and his fiancé to see what happened. They need to get his side of things to see where is head is at. Does he know the seriousness, is there a chance that this will happen again, was it blown out of proportion, will it cause future issues for the NFL/Ravens...

They were seemingly convinced that this was not a major issue and ruled with a suspension. For something that led to no charges it would be hard to come down too harshly on the issue.

The NFLPA would never allow the NFL to interview only the fiancé and they shouldn't. The only thing the NFL should base their decision on is what the legal outcome was, what issues the situation could cause the league, what they could do as far as the NFLPA was concerned and what their judgment of Rice was (did it seem like something that may happen again).

The NFL was in a rough position there as this video was bound to get leaked, these things always happen. Without that happening it would be hard for them to justify much more than a 2 game suspension to the NFLPA.

With the video leaked they can now come down much more harshly without much pushback from the NFLPA; they will probably make an attempt at appeal for show but doubt they will waste too much effort trying to make the NFL back down but they have to make the stand (to show that they will back their players).


I used to like Rice, from his Rutgers days. Didn't know he was that much of a douche. Hopefully he turns that around and learns/grows from this. He deserves a second chance if he can turn things around.

[EagleFan]

It's happened to me. Granted I got my time to speak alone with my employer, but in the end I got written up for it regardless of how ridiculous the accusation was.

You were legally charged with something outside of your work? The charges were dropped and no police follow up? Your employer called you in to discuss? Your employer called your accuser in to discuss, someone from outside the company and without you present?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the phrase (which I may have used earlier, can't recall & too lazy to search) is probably that the NFL can't compel her to speak to them without whomever she chooses present.

[Coffee Warlord]

My coworker posted this on our fantasy message board. Guess who he had on his roster.


Looking to move an underrated RB. Willing to accept Adrian Peterson or best offer. This RB is being offered at an extreme value. Act now!

Some vitals:
Favorite song: Smack My Bitch Up by The Prodigy
Favorite Athlete: Mike Tyson
Favorite Movie: Sleeping with the Enemy

No relation to Jerry Rice.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's a matter between the NFL and Rice. The legal ruling was already made. The only thing the NFL needs to find out is Rice's side of it. From there they make their ruling. It is pretty straight forward.

Unless you think that your employer should start their own investigation on you if you ever have charges raised and subsequently dropped against you.


Agree with you on the first part - it's between the NFL and Rice. We just disagree on whether or not them talking to the woman was an important part of finding out the truth of the situation. Because they need to find out more than just "Rice's side of it" in order to get a sense for how it will affect the league. They're not the police - they're not restricted to just the legal opinion.

If there was any sort of "morality" or "conduct" clause in my employment contract (as there is with NFL ones) I'd fully expect my employer would conduct an investigation and discipline me accordingly - and I wouldn't be surprised if the results of their discipline were different from the prosecutor, because there's a different standard of proof and a different reason they're looking.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think the phrase (which I may have used earlier, can't recall & too lazy to search) is probably that the NFL can't compel her to speak to them without whomever she chooses present.

Exactly. But they can damn sure try, and try to exert leverage to get her to (to the extent they do so legally). There's no legal prohibition against that.

[dubb93]

It would be really dispicable for Roger Goodell to tell a domestic violence victim to come meet with him, alone and in private, or else! Especially when he has no authority over that person.

[Matthean]

You were legally charged with something outside of your work? The charges were dropped and no police follow up? Your employer called you in to discuss? Your employer called your accuser in to discuss, someone from outside the company and without you present?

No. It was a customer complaint. I don't see why it would need to be legal for both of them to be there when both could be interviewed separately. The Police interview people separately as well. Again, I don't see why in this case they had to be in the same room. If it's two strangers, that's one thing, but we are talking about people who are planning to marry each other. How open do you really expect them to be?

[nol]

stuff

I agree with about half of that stuff, but my statement was only riffing on the idea that Rice's initial suspension was only two games because Rice lied to the Ravens/NFL about the circumstances, and the NFL has been looking to do the right thing, rather than save face and increase profits for all parties involved, every step of the way.

Hell, if the first video hadn't come out (four days after the assault), would there have been any suspension at all? It would have been super easy to throw out the old "Welp, it says she assaulted him too, so it wasn't domestic assault" justification and let the peanut gallery run with it ("Just another golddigging ho trying to ruin an NFL player's reputation SMH").

[TroyF]

OK, for all of you wanting to have the interview, what do you think you will gain? Being the employer, you would have to ask easy questions. You wouldn't exactly be in a position to badger her. This isn't Perry Mason.

This women married him a month after he did this to her. Do you think she would have broken down and said "The piece of human garbage I just married knocked me out, it was unprovoked and I hope the guy I just married loses his job and goes to jail for a long time. My dream is to marry an unemployed prisoner. You can make my wish come true"

I'll say it again, her FATHER supported Ray Rice at the Ravens press conference. She wasn't going to say anything to change the brilliant 2 game suspension they came up with.

Something I was thinking about on the way home: The NFL has said domestic violence is 6 games for a first offense, lifetime ban for the second. This is his first offense. If he really told the truth at the start, how does the NFL suspend him indefinitely? Because they don't like the bad press? I don't see how that flies with any arbitrator in America.

[miami_fan]

Hell, if the first video hadn't come out (four days after the assault), would there have been any suspension at all? It would have been super easy to throw out the old "Welp, it says she assaulted him too, so it wasn't domestic assault" justification and let the peanut gallery run with it ("Just another golddigging ho trying to ruin an NFL player's reputation SMH").

I chuckled at the thought that this is even a question.

[Logan]

TMZ claims that tomorrow they will show proof that the league knew about the video and did nothing about it.

[mckerney]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Chris Berman on Ray Rice: &quot;The Ravens acted right away.&quot; Dilfer: &quot;They acted quickly and decisively.&quot; WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?</p>&mdash; SportsPickle (@sportspickle) <a href="https://twitter.com/sportspickle/status/509180387726467072">September 9, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[EagleFan]

No. It was a customer complaint. I don't see why it would need to be legal for both of them to be there when both could be interviewed separately. The Police interview people separately as well. Again, I don't see why in this case they had to be in the same room. If it's two strangers, that's one thing, but we are talking about people who are planning to marry each other. How open do you really expect them to be?

Sorry that you went through that but it's apples to oranges in this case. One is directly related to your job so they have to look into it. The other is not related to the job.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sorry that you went through that but it's apples to oranges in this case. One is directly related to your job so they have to look into it. The other is not related to the job.

Bullshit.

It's absolutely related to the job insofar as the players can explicitly face disciplinary action for actions that harm the image of the league (or whatever the actual language is).

Keep trying.

[EagleFan]

Look, it's an awful thing that he did and he should have been held accountable for it.

The NFL comes off looking bad here (obviously Rice already has). Not one thing has changed since the original suspension. If what I have been hearing/reading is true and that Rice already told them exactly what happened and the tape verifies that, the release of this tape should not change a thing.

If I have heard incorrectly and he didn't tell them everything, then all bets are off.

[DaddyTorgo]

Look, it's an awful thing that he did and he should have been held accountable for it.

The NFL comes off looking bad here (obviously Rice already has). Not one thing has changed since the original suspension. If what I have been hearing/reading is true and that Rice already told them exactly what happened and the tape verifies that, the release of this tape should not change a thing.

If I have heard incorrectly and he didn't tell them everything, then all bets are off.

I agree with you. Not sure what you're arguing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If what I have been hearing/reading is true and that Rice already told them exactly what happened and the tape verifies that, the release of this tape should not change a thing.

But what changed is that this (and by "this" I mean the release & the suspension) has nothing to do with domestic violence, it has to do with image. This is marketing, not rules or policy or social responsibility or anything else.

It's imaging.

[EagleFan]

Bullshit.

It's absolutely related to the job insofar as the players can explicitly face disciplinary action for actions that harm the image of the league (or whatever the actual language is).

Keep trying.

Keep trying... It's fairly straight forward logic.

One is directly job related. Customer complaints always have to be looked into as the issue happened on the job (or didn't as in this case).

To make this apples to apples... have someone accuse you of something, go through the legal system, have nothing happen to you. Then go to work and find out that your boss has decided to launch his own investigation and is talking to your accuser. The only thing your boss needs to know is that you were convicted of nothing and what is your side of the story. Is it something that is going to affect your performance? Anything beyond that becomes a witch hunt.

(hell of a catch by Fitzgerald even though he was out of bounds)

[EagleFan]

I agree with you. Not sure what you're arguing.

Not arguing anything with that one, just making a statement. Sometimes I don't argue. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

Keep trying... It's fairly straight forward logic.

One is directly job related. Customer complaints always have to be looked into as the issue happened on the job (or didn't as in this case).

To make this apples to apples... have someone accuse you of something, go through the legal system, have nothing happen to you. Then go to work and find out that your boss has decided to launch his own investigation and is talking to your accuser. The only thing your boss needs to know is that you were convicted of nothing and what is your side of the story. Is it something that is going to affect your performance? Anything beyond that becomes a witch hunt.

(hell of a catch by Fitzgerald even though he was out of bounds)

You didn't read what I wrote. As I said, as long as there's a "morals" or "image of the league" or whatever conduct policy in my contract with my employer, then yes, I'd expect that, and I'd expect my employer's result to perhaps differ substantially from the legal system's result, particularly the larger and more PR-sensitive they are.

[EagleFan]

But what changed is that this (and by "this" I mean the release & the suspension) has nothing to do with domestic violence, it has to do with image. This is marketing, not rules or policy or social responsibility or anything else.

It's imaging.

I can still call BS on the league. If they had all the information they should know what would happen if the tape came out and dealt with it then. If he described it just at the tape shows, deal with it then.

If not, what next, steroid suspensions will be increased if a video of the player shooting up comes out? Vick gets retro banned if actual video of him killing dogs comes out? A couple SB rings get taken away from Charles Haley if a video of him whacking off in the locker room comes out?

Actions are no more worse if seen than if not seen.

We already know Rice is a dirt bag in all of this but he is no more of a dirt bag today than he was a week ago.

If everything came out exactly like he said, I would think that he has legal grounds to overturn this.


I'll say it again, this is based on my understanding that he came clean with everything already. If that is the case, he is getting screwed by this (hard to feel bad for someone but he had already taken the PR hit for this and a bit of a financial hit).


If he lied and didn't previously come clean, than what I said is moot and I say F' him.

[Julio Riddols]

if TMZ does come out with proof of this, I hope it ends Goodell. Fuck, bring back Tagliabue.

[Julio Riddols]

Also, saw the video tonight at work during half time of the game. Wow. Not only did he hit her, he hit her twice and it definitely appears he also spit in her face. And after he knocks her ass out, he just stands there. I feel like he is getting off easy only getting kicked out of the league and losing his job.

[mrtourette]

He can't interview her alone. It is not a police investigation, it is an employer. How would you like it if your employer had a discussion with someone accusing you of something without you in the room and based their decision on that?

It's a perfectly reasonable course of action in that situation as an employer. If you're investigating a complaint by one party against another then you interview them seperately, with witnesses if they wish, and record the discussions and base your decision on that. As part of a formal process it would be madness to put the two in the room together and expect an honest account of events.

However this situation is different because the league holds no sway over Rice's wife, she's under no obligation to talk the league. I'd imagine that one of the stipulations of her doing so was that Rice was present. Why would she want that, or why would she want to help protect him? I'm sure we can all come to our own conclusions about that.

[Blackadar]

I said the two game suspension for Ray Rice was complete bullshit. Some tried to defend it then. Well, please defend it now, I'm all ears. I said Goodell had gotten it wrong (again!).

You know what? Goodell STILL has it wrong. This permanent suspension is wrong too. It's an overreaction and mob justice which is not supposed to be the actions of the commish.

By the way, the DA who didn't prosecute this - that has no bearing on the NFL's action so don't confuse the two - should be fired. Ray Rice should have gone to jail. No doubt.

1. I think that the NFL's excuse that they didn't see the video is bull. There's no way that the NFL, with all of its power and money and links into law enforcement, couldn't get their hands on it. They did, or they could have. TMZ did, but the NFL couldn't? Yeah, right. Personally, I think they probably did see it.

2. Even taking the NFL's position that they didn't see the tape at face value (bullshit, cough cough), the video only confirms what everyone already knew. We knew Ray Rice knocked his fiancee cold and dragged her out of the elevator. This video shows no new facts whatsoever.

3. Goodell puts out a domestic violence policy and in his first action, he doesn't follow it. Hey Roger, what's the point of having a policy if you're not going to abide by it?

4. The Harbaugh/Ravens press conference last night was the most self-serving thing I've heard from an NFL team in a long while. He refused to answer any of the tough questions like "what did you guys think happened", instead trying to cover up all of the difficult questions with "anyone who has a heart saw what the video showed". Great job trying to shame the reporters who are asking why your organization seems to be morally bankrupt! The whole organization should be ashamed of itself.

5. I'm rolling my eyes at all of these TV heads talking about how it's "never ok to hit a woman". What a bunch of misogynists. That thinking comes directly from "women are the weaker sex, must be protected, can't control their own emotions" hur hur hur caveman way of thinking. It's never ok to instigate the physical confrontation but it is ok to defend yourself even (gasp!) against a woman. It's a matter of treating someone as an equal and not as some weaker creature. Not to mention that it covers up all of the domestic violence cases where the man is the one abused. I'm not getting too deep into this point and if you want to argue with me on this start a new thread (because this isn't a Men's Rights' Movement thing), but I'm laughing all of these guys trying to appear gallant on TV and revealing themselves to be a bunch of misogynists by doing so.

In short, the right punishment from the NFL here would be for them to adhere to the new domestic violence policy and suspend Rice for 8 games. The Ravens would still then cut him, making his suspension effectively a season or longer. Goodell gets it wrong again. Hopefully, he gets fired over this (though I doubt it) and they can bring in someone who is consistent and less self-serving.

[mrtourette]

1. I think that the NFL's excuse that they didn't see the video is bull. There's no way that the NFL, with all of its power and money and links into law enforcement, couldn't get their hands on it. They did, or they could have. TMZ did, but the NFL couldn't? Yeah, right. Personally, I think they probably did see it.

It would be interesting to know the chain of events here. If TMZ (or someone else) had the video did they offer it to the NFL? If not why not, if so then why didn't the NFL accept the offer of watching it (allegedly)?


4. The Harbaugh/Ravens press conference last night was the most self-serving thing I've heard from an NFL team in a long while. He refused to answer any of the tough questions like "what did you guys think happened", instead trying to cover up all of the difficult questions with "anyone who has a heart saw what the video showed". Great job trying to shame the reporters who are asking why your organization seems to be morally bankrupt! The whole organization should be ashamed of itself.

Absolutely, the same point above applies to the Ravens. Why weren't they searching out the video that they (again allegedly) hadn't seen?


If either the Ravens or the NFL hadn't seen the video then they are guilty of deliberately avoiding the situation and hoping the video wouldn't surface.

If they had then obviosuly they're guilty of being lying shitbags and being caught out.

[Ben E Lou]

Wouldn't the NFL simply not WANT to see the video? My guess is that at most they gave a cursory "can we see it?"

"No. You need a subpoena."

"Oh well. Guess we can't see it."

[flere-imsaho]

Wouldn't the NFL simply not WANT to see the video? My guess is that at most they gave a cursory "can we see it?"

"No. You need a subpoena."

"Oh well. Guess we can't see it."


I'm in agreement with Ben. NFL brass is populated by a lot of lawyers. They would have known, quite clearly, that once they actually saw the video they'd lose their plausible deniability and find themselves in a very difficult situation. It would not be surprising to me to find that the NFL had the opportunity to see the video outside of "official channels", and declined to take that opportunity.

It also wouldn't surprise me to learn that some mid-level NFL staff watched it anyway, being idiots.

Of course, if the rumors turn out to be true and upper-level management did see it, and then said they didn't, that wouldn't surprise me either.

[Toddzilla]

That's a lie, though. The NFL DID see the video. So "why didn't they?" is moot.

[Ben E Lou]

Too lazy to go digging: is the new prescribed punishment "6 weeks" or "a minimum of 6 weeks."

[Ben E Lou]

That's a lie, though. The NFL DID see the video. So "why didn't they?" is moot.Has this been established? (And yeah on what flere said: I wonder if the decision-makers never saw it but some lower-level guys went off the reservation and watched it, but if so, it's very likely that they wouldn't have reported it to higher-ups.)

[Ben E Lou]

Well, there ya go. TMZ has reported, and the NFL has appeared to confirm, that they didn't ask the casino to see the tape. It's sad to say that I'm not remotely surprised by that revelation. *shurg*

Ray Rice Video -- NFL Commish in the Dark ... By Choice? | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/09/nfl-ray-rice-video-elevator-attack-fiancee-casino-footage/)

NFL Statement Says League Never Asked Casino For Ray Rice Video (http://deadspin.com/nfl-statement-says-league-never-asked-casino-for-ray-ri-1632356613)

[Ben E Lou]

Double Dola:

And Janay is standing by her man...

"I woke up this morning feeling like I had a horrible nightmare, feeling like I'm mourning the death of my closest friend. But to have to accept the fact that it's reality is a nightmare in itself. No one knows the pain that the media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass of for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific. THIS IS OUR LIFE! What don't you all get. If your intentions were to hurt us, embarrass us, make us feel alone, take all happiness away, you've succeeded on so many levels. Just know we will continue to grow & show the world what real love is! Ravensnation we love you!"

Janay Rice Releases Statement: "This Is Our Life" (http://deadspin.com/janay-rice-releases-statement-this-is-our-life-1632366280)

[DaddyTorgo]

Double Dola:

And Janay is standing by her man...



Janay Rice Releases Statement: "This Is Our Life" (http://deadspin.com/janay-rice-releases-statement-this-is-our-life-1632366280)

Feel sorry for her.

[TroyF]

I said the two game suspension for Ray Rice was complete bullshit. Some tried to defend it then. Well, please defend it now, I'm all ears. I said Goodell had gotten it wrong (again!).

You know what? Goodell STILL has it wrong. This permanent suspension is wrong too. It's an overreaction and mob justice which is not supposed to be the actions of the commish.

By the way, the DA who didn't prosecute this - that has no bearing on the NFL's action so don't confuse the two - should be fired. Ray Rice should have gone to jail. No doubt.

1. I think that the NFL's excuse that they didn't see the video is bull. There's no way that the NFL, with all of its power and money and links into law enforcement, couldn't get their hands on it. They did, or they could have. TMZ did, but the NFL couldn't? Yeah, right. Personally, I think they probably did see it.

2. Even taking the NFL's position that they didn't see the tape at face value (bullshit, cough cough), the video only confirms what everyone already knew. We knew Ray Rice knocked his fiancee cold and dragged her out of the elevator. This video shows no new facts whatsoever.

3. Goodell puts out a domestic violence policy and in his first action, he doesn't follow it. Hey Roger, what's the point of having a policy if you're not going to abide by it?

4. The Harbaugh/Ravens press conference last night was the most self-serving thing I've heard from an NFL team in a long while. He refused to answer any of the tough questions like "what did you guys think happened", instead trying to cover up all of the difficult questions with "anyone who has a heart saw what the video showed". Great job trying to shame the reporters who are asking why your organization seems to be morally bankrupt! The whole organization should be ashamed of itself.

5. I'm rolling my eyes at all of these TV heads talking about how it's "never ok to hit a woman". What a bunch of misogynists. That thinking comes directly from "women are the weaker sex, must be protected, can't control their own emotions" hur hur hur caveman way of thinking. It's never ok to instigate the physical confrontation but it is ok to defend yourself even (gasp!) against a woman. It's a matter of treating someone as an equal and not as some weaker creature. Not to mention that it covers up all of the domestic violence cases where the man is the one abused. I'm not getting too deep into this point and if you want to argue with me on this start a new thread (because this isn't a Men's Rights' Movement thing), but I'm laughing all of these guys trying to appear gallant on TV and revealing themselves to be a bunch of misogynists by doing so.

In short, the right punishment from the NFL here would be for them to adhere to the new domestic violence policy and suspend Rice for 8 games. The Ravens would still then cut him, making his suspension effectively a season or longer. Goodell gets it wrong again. Hopefully, he gets fired over this (though I doubt it) and they can bring in someone who is consistent and less self-serving.

I feel like I'm in F'ing bizzaro world. I agree with most of what Olberman says and now you? What the hell is wrong with me?

FWIW, I've said it multiple times in this thread, the prosecutor is what really, really bothers me in this case. The Ravens front office does not care about morals, we get that. The NFL doesn't care about morals, we all get that. How can a public prosecutor trying to defend the laws of the land see that video (and there is NO question they saw the video) and not put this guy behind bars for at least 90 days?

Hell, I don't even think you need an investigation into that.l Look at the tape, look at what the grand jury said, then look at how he was prosecuted. Everyone associated with that decision, take a seat over there. Buh Bye.

[Jas_lov]

Well, there ya go. TMZ has reported, and the NFL has appeared to confirm, that they didn't ask the casino to see the tape. It's sad to say that I'm not remotely surprised by that revelation. *shurg*

Ray Rice Video -- NFL Commish in the Dark ... By Choice? | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/09/nfl-ray-rice-video-elevator-attack-fiancee-casino-footage/)

NFL Statement Says League Never Asked Casino For Ray Rice Video (http://deadspin.com/nfl-statement-says-league-never-asked-casino-for-ray-ri-1632356613)

Grossly incompetent. Commissioner Goodell should resign today.

[Subby]

Grossly incompetent. Commissioner Goodell should resign today.
Absolutely.

[Ben E Lou]

I agree that he should resign. I disagree that it's "gross incompetence." Sounds like he handled it how upper leadership in most organizations in America would handle it: do whatever pr demands, because the full story will probably never see the light of day.

[Toddzilla]

THAT IS gross incompetence

[Kodos]

Yep. Goodell, everyone in power in the Ravens organization, tons of people should be fired or resign.

[Ben E Lou]

Ehhhh...ultimately it's semantics, but "gross incompetence" and "gross selfishness" are two entirely different things. *shurg*

[stevew]

Trying to understand the cap here. Baltimore couldn't cut him pre-June 1 cause of an overwhelming amount of dead money. This happened in February. Most likely they knew he was done from a skills standpoint but they had already given him so much cash as it is, that rolling the dice for 3M was a worthwhile option? He basically had one of the worst YPC seasons for a starting back last year. He'll never play another down now, but the likelihood of playing in 2015 wasn't really a given anyways. Old RB that can't play special teams are pretty much worthless.

[Buccaneer]

Yet another video I will not watch, just like any of the ferguson or beheadings or even serious sports injuries. I know what's going on in the world but it still makes me sick to see violent acts perpetrated against others and perhaps the defense or excuse of it all.

[flere-imsaho]

Ehhhh...ultimately it's semantics, but "gross incompetence" and "gross selfishness" are two entirely different things. *shurg*

Arguably it's both.

Avoiding exposure to the video to retain plausible deniability and just hope that it all blows over is the selfishness (i.e. "protect myself at all costs").

Believing that in today's world such a video won't eventually make it to the public is... something. Naivete? Wishful thinking?

Combining the two while in charge of large and very public organization that has a whole industry built to put it under a microscope (for good and bad), is almost certainly incompetence.

[molson]

I'm starting to have mixed feelings on some of this. I'm not sure I want the NFL to be attempting criminal investigations on off-the-field stuff and making too many discretionary calls about that stuff. They'd just be opening themselves up to claims of bias and incompetence, and to misunderstandings about what they have the power to really do. But I understand the limits of tying things to the criminal justice system too. Still, I think that'd be a good first level from the top - if you're charged with a violent crime, you're indefinitely suspended until the resolution of the case. If you admit guilt or are found guilty, you're gone from the league.

There wouldn't be too many loopholes there, but this Ray Rice case would be one. Under a system like that, he'd be suspended by the NFL until and if he completed the diversion program and the charges were dismissed (which may not happen, Rice may very well end up killing this woman and there's a good chance the physical abuse happened before the elevator situation and continues today, it's just a matter of getting caught again).

I'd like to see the franchises step up and fill the gaps on those loopholes, and other situations where there's violent conduct but no criminal convictions that stick. I mean, the franchises are the ones who are inspiring this tolerance for criminals. Goodell and the NFL don't really gain anything by suspending Rice for only 2 games. Rice is not some icon or integral part of the league and its brand. Goodell is working for the owners. I would hope any loopholes like Rice would be covered by the teams. And if a team like the Ravens still wants to use Rice, then, I'd think the backlash would maybe create a net plus for societal intolerance of criminal behavior and awareness of domestic violence issues. Of course that backlash would suck for the NFL

[Ben E Lou]

Combining the two while in charge of large and very public organization that has a whole industry built to put it under a microscope (for good and bad), is almost certainly incompetence.See. this is where we disagree. I suspect that cover-up/plausible-deniability stuff like this happens fairly routinely in the NFL and in many (most?) organizations and that most of it never sees the light of day.

[stevew]

Ravens offering a Jersey exchange program

[JPhillips]

Ravens offering a Jersey exchange program

I'd exchange Jersey for North Carolina.

[stevew]

Also will be deleted from Madden.

[Dr. Sak]

Hell, if the first video hadn't come out (four days after the assault), would there have been any suspension at all? It would have been super easy to throw out the old "Welp, it says she assaulted him too, so it wasn't domestic assault" justification and let the peanut gallery run with it ("Just another golddigging ho trying to ruin an NFL player's reputation SMH").

See James Harrison...no video, no suspension. I think you make a good point.

Here's how the NFL really feels about domestic violence (http://www.dailydot.com/news/ray-rice-suspension-nfl-domestic-violence-history/)

[mrtourette]

I'm starting to have mixed feelings on some of this. I'm not sure I want the NFL to be attempting criminal investigations on off-the-field stuff and making too many discretionary calls about that stuff. They'd just be opening themselves up to claims of bias and incompetence, and to misunderstandings about what they have the power to really do. But I understand the limits of tying things to the criminal justice system too. Still, I think that'd be a good first level from the top - if you're charged with a violent crime, you're indefinitely suspended until the resolution of the case. If you admit guilt or are found guilty, you're gone from the league.

There wouldn't be too many loopholes there, but this Ray Rice case would be one. Under a system like that, he'd be suspended by the NFL until and if he completed the diversion program and the charges were dismissed (which may not happen, Rice may very well end up killing this woman and there's a good chance the physical abuse happened before the elevator situation and continues today, it's just a matter of getting caught again).

I'd like to see the franchises step up and fill the gaps on those loopholes, and other situations where there's violent conduct but no criminal convictions that stick. I mean, the franchises are the ones who are inspiring this tolerance for criminals. Goodell and the NFL don't really gain anything by suspending Rice for only 2 games. Rice is not some icon or integral part of the league and its brand. Goodell is working for the owners. I would hope any loopholes like Rice would be covered by the teams. And if a team like the Ravens still wants to use Rice, then, I'd think the backlash would maybe create a net plus for societal intolerance of criminal behavior and awareness of domestic violence issues. Of course that backlash would suck for the NFL

I think the over-reliance on reactive NFL punishments is uncomfortable. It's always struck me as alarming the amount of law-breaking shitbags that play professional football compared to other sports, is enough done to proactivly ensure that these morons are educated and monitored? I know there is the symposium and conferences and ex-pros travelling to facilities to speak on various matters, but how seriously do the actual teams take this and how much responsibility do they take for ensuring that their players are behaving correctly? Something needs to be done about this culture of 'it doesn't matter what you do off the field as long as you produce on the field' from the perspective of the teams. It seems acceptable to get what you can out of a player and then wash your hands of him when te trouble starts, and then get praised for cutting him! How about preventing him from getting into trouble in the first place.

[larrymcg421]

Even if we ignore the moral argument, I don't get the NFL's actions. This is not Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers. How much would the league's bottom line really be hurt if they had taken a more aggressive stance against Rice from the beginning? I mean, I get why the Ravens would want this swept under the rug, but not the NFL.

[DaddyTorgo]

Even if we ignore the moral argument, I don't get the NFL's actions. This is not Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers. How much would the league's bottom line really be hurt if they had taken a more aggressive stance against Rice from the beginning? I mean, I get why the Ravens would want this swept under the rug, but not the NFL.

If Tom laid an aggressive finger on Gisele she'd leave him I don't doubt. And since she's the major breadwinner of the couple still (I think I'm right about that, right?) he'd be dumb to fuck that up.

[flere-imsaho]

See. this is where we disagree. I suspect that cover-up/plausible-deniability stuff like this happens fairly routinely in the NFL and in many (most?) organizations and that most of it never sees the light of day.

I agree with you that it happens quite often. Probably the most in government, to be honest (all those hearings being the primary reason). But I've seen plenty in private industry as well.

The difference here is, as I stated before, the NFL's visibility, and the fact that because it is part of the entertainment industry, it'll always have a lot of very public focus on its actions. It's naive to think such a video, once it's known to exist, won't end up in the public domain.

[jeff061]

I'm pretty sure Gisele could kick Brady's ass.

[mrtourette]

If Tom laid an aggressive finger on Gisele she'd leave him I don't doubt. And since she's the major breadwinner of the couple still (I think I'm right about that, right?) he'd be dumb to fuck that up.

I doubt he needs the money. There are far better reasons why he wouldn't want to fuck it up.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm pretty sure Gisele could kick Brady's ass.

True that. She's ripped.

I doubt he needs the money. There are far better reasons why he wouldn't want to fuck it up.

LOL - very true.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's naive to think such a video, once it's known to exist, won't end up in the public domain.

Let me spin that back at you a different way.

Since this is apparently such an impactful video, do you believe the relatively scarcity of other examples -- violence, with video -- means that the action being captured on film is exceptionally rare?

Or that we simply don't see them? (which would mean maybe it wasn't so naive after all)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just in case anybody has missed it

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Ray Rice and Janay Palmer can be heard shouting obscenities at each other, and she appears to spit in the face of the three-time Pro Bowl running back right before he throws a brutal punch in a video shown to The Associated Press by a law enforcement official.

The video, shown to the AP Monday night, includes audio and is longer than the grainy TMZ Sports video released earlier that day.

[BishopMVP]

I'm pretty sure Gisele could kick Brady's ass.Whatever do you mean?

http://www.raybendici.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/brady-268x300.jpg

Yet another video I will not watch, just like any of the ferguson or beheadings or even serious sports injuries. I know what's going on in the world but it still makes me sick to see violent acts perpetrated against others and perhaps the defense or excuse of it all.Good luck. I was at the gym last night and I swear CNN and ESPN showed the video 50 times between them, then would replay it in slo-mo.

[flere-imsaho]

Since this is apparently such an impactful video, do you believe the relatively scarcity of other examples -- violence, with video -- means that the action being captured on film is exceptionally rare?

Or that we simply don't see them? (which would mean maybe it wasn't so naive after all)

I don't know. But I guess your 2nd paragraph raises a good point about naivete. Still, knowing there was a video and plenty of media outlets (TMZ, Gawker, etc...) would be looking to get their hands on it, and also knowing the high-profile, there does seem to be some breakdown in terms assessing the risk and preparing for it adequately. If I was on the board of the NFL, I'd be asking competence/judgment-based questions about that.

[BillJasper]

If someone spits in my face, I don't think it entitles me to knock them out. Whether it's a man or woman. YMMV.

[Buccaneer]

Bishop, not too hard to do since nearly all of my media interactions are online and I would have to purposely click in order to watch. I still contend that we need positive role models and mentors to teach against violence and other bad behaviors.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If someone spits in my face, I don't think it entitles me to knock them out. Whether it's a man or woman. YMMV.

I suspect it will be a factor that changes -- at least privately -- the perception of the incident for a lot of people. "A lot" does not necessarily mean "a majority" ... but I think it's sizable.

What this latest reveal by AP does do I believe is point back to where we were before TMZ decided to get themselves some publicity. This seems very consistent with the version that was out there when the story first broke, (paraphrasing) her accepting some responsibility for what happened, the mitigating circumstances there were alluded to, etc.

And I think it lends credence to the claims that everybody -- NFL, Ravens, everybody who was part of the story -- has known pretty much everything all along.

[DaddyTorgo]

I suspect it will be a factor that changes -- at least privately -- the perception of the incident for a lot of people. "A lot" does not necessarily mean "a majority" ... but I think it's sizable.

What this latest reveal by AP does do I believe is point back to where we were before TMZ decided to get themselves some publicity. This seems very consistent with the version that was out there when the story first broke, (paraphrasing) her accepting some responsibility for what happened, the mitigating circumstances there were alluded to, etc.

And I think it lends credence to the claims that everybody -- NFL, Ravens, everybody who was part of the story -- has known pretty much everything all along.

If that changes the perception of "a lot" of people then that's fucking sad commentary on our society.

Then again, "average" is a pretty scary thing when you think about it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If that changes the perception of "a lot" of people then that's fucking sad commentary on our society. Then again, "average" is a pretty scary thing when you think about it.

A lot of people -- black, white, male, female -- have been killed for doing lesser offenses than spitting in someone's face.

My notion is that the instinctive reaction (rage, fury, whatever) is going to become a lot more understandable for a lot of people.

Right, wrong, good, bad, whatever you think of that ... I believe it's realistic.

[DaddyTorgo]

A lot of people -- black, white, male, female -- have been killed for doing lesser offenses than spitting in someone's face.

My notion is that the instinctive reaction (rage, fury, whatever) is going to become a lot more understandable for a lot of people.

Right, wrong, good, bad, whatever you think of that ... I believe it's realistic.

Right - for once I don't disagree with you.

I just think it's a particularly sad commentary on our society.

[Logan]

I don't know. But I guess your 2nd paragraph raises a good point about naivete. Still, knowing there was a video and plenty of media outlets (TMZ, Gawker, etc...) would be looking to get their hands on it, and also knowing the high-profile, there does seem to be some breakdown in terms assessing the risk and preparing for it adequately. If I was on the board of the NFL, I'd be asking competence/judgment-based questions about that.

And it's not only that they knew there was a video - because it's a casino elevator and everything is recorded - but we already saw a video of a portion of the incident, so they knew it was obtainable. There was zero chance of this not coming out.

Question for you guys...if the NFL suspended him for a year at the onset, and we never get months of waiting followed by another month of "Ray Rice gets 2 games while Josh Gordon gets a year", and the video was released yesterday, do the Ravens still cut him?

I say no.

[BillJasper]

Question for you guys...if the NFL suspended him for a year at the onset, and we never get months of waiting followed by another month of "Ray Rice gets 2 games while Josh Gordon gets a year", and the video was released yesterday, do the Ravens still cut him?

I say no.

No, I don't think so. The NFL hand-waved the severity of the incident by only handing out two games.

[nol]

They would have cut him at some point due to age/rust/salary cap concerns, but it's so far removed from reality to imagine the team or the league doing anything other than whatever leads to the least culpability/brand tarnishing until they have to react to overwhelming public opinion.

[flounder]

Um. Wow. <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ray Rice GF now wife Janay Parker needs 2 shut up. Disgusting that she and Rice got marriage certificate 2 days after he hit her. Disgrace</p>&mdash; Howard Eskin (@howardeskin) <a href="https://twitter.com/howardeskin/status/509336026306068480">September 9, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[JonInMiddleGA]

1) Who the f. is Howard Eskin? (yeah, I know now after Googling him)

2) Patronizing much? I'd say there's a pretty fair argument that could be made that she's minimized more by a general attitude of "dumb bitch, why would you marry him, has to be about the Benjamins", denying her a right to make her own choices (isn't that ultimately what the goal of "empowerment" would be?) than by anything Rice did to her.

I'm not inclined to spend much time making that argument ... but I believe it could be done.

[mckerney]

ESPNers Are Pissed At The NFL Over Its Ray Rice Video Claims (http://t.co/jJQfCeDInc)

Here's Mort on Monday's Outside the Lines, stating unequivocally that "the sources with whom I spoke had knowledge of the videotape, and in one case had seen the tape."



Said Mortensen, "The information was pretty strikingly similar to what we saw in the TMZ Sport video, which is that Ray Rice struck Janay twice inside the elevator, and on the second one, when she was going down, she hit her head on the elevator railing."

"As far as I can go in terms of talking about sourcing," continued Mortensen, who is an NFL reporter and not a cops and courts reporter, "yes. Somebody had seen that video."

[jeff061]

2) Patronizing much? I'd say there's a pretty fair argument that could be made that she's minimized more by a general attitude of "dumb bitch, why would you marry him, has to be about the Benjamins", denying her a right to make her own choices (isn't that ultimately what the goal of "empowerment" would be?) than by anything Rice did to her.

I'm not inclined to spend much time making that argument ... but I believe it could be done.

Agree with this. He just basically dealt out a verbal broadside slap to the face with a side of "know your place". Just another ignorant jackass.

[Ben E Lou]

ESPN is reporting that what Rice told the Ravens pretty much matches up with what was in the video, lending more credence to what many of us had already recognized: they burned him not because of what he did, but because of how the public reacted to *seeing* what he did.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola: they also said that someone from law enforcement also told the NFL what was in the video. That could explain how people from inside the NFL told sources accurately what was in it without actually seeing it themselves. And there's still the possibility that some lower-level guys saw it and didn't report upward. I just don't buy that the NFL would just tell a bald-faced lie on it at this point, so this line of thinking makes more sense to me.

[gstelmack]

It still doesn't change the fact that there was no new information with this video release, and continues to make the NFL look much worse for how they've handled this whole affair.

[BillJasper]

If the NFL had given him a year suspension right off the bat, I don't think there would've been much backlash when the video finally surfaced. But they would've been in a fight with the NFLPA. Which is likely still going to happen because Goodell has now switched punishments.

If Goodell had given Rice a year back in February and the PA had fought him and gotten the suspension lessened, they would be the ones looking terrible right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

What Does It Take to Get Roger Goodell Fired? « (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/)



Three days after the new domestic-violence penalties were announced, Ray McDonald was arrested for domestic abuse. It happened at his 30th birthday party, when police showed up to his house at 2:48 a.m. and found his pregnant fiancée with “bruises on her neck and arm,” which led police to take McDonald into custody. McDonald later professed his innocence and said “the truth will come out.” Niners coach Jim Harbaugh said, “If someone physically abuses a woman and/or physically or mentally abuses or hurts a child, then there’s no understanding. There’s no tolerance for that.”

McDonald played Sunday.

When asked about it, Harbaugh said, “The way the facts are and what’s known, he has the liberty to play in the game.”

You could argue that it makes sense to wait for the courts to decide the facts before taking action, and that would be fair. But for a league that can’t even announce new domestic-violence penalties without a player getting arrested for domestic violence within 72 hours, it might be time to start sending stronger messages. This isn’t a court of law. “Not getting arrested for domestic violence” is a pretty low bar to clear for players who want to play every Sunday.

But then, even the “waiting for the facts” argument has holes in it, because Greg Hardy played Sunday, too. The Panthers All-Pro defensive end was found guilty this summer of domestic violence. His ex-girlfriend says Hardy slammed her arm with a toilet seat and put her in a choke hold.

“He looked me in my eyes and he told me he was going to kill me,” the 24-year-old woman said. “I was so scared I wanted to die. When he loosened his grip slightly, I said, ‘Just do it. Kill me.’”

Whether you’re talking about Rice or Goodell, Monday just made it harder to ignore things we knew all along.

Oh, and Hardy? On Sunday he had four tackles and a sack, and helped the Panthers defense harass Josh McCown all afternoon to take down the Bucs. There’s still no word on a suspension, but don’t worry. The league office recently sent a memo to the Panthers warning them that Greg Hardy’s face paint is a violation of NFL uniform policy.

The commissioner’s got things under control.



Emphasis mine.

What a fucking joke.

[jeff061]

Goodell is just following orders. Symptom of a larger problem.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Emphasis mine. What a fucking joke.

What part of "most people don't really give a shit" isn't clear yet?

Ray Lewis didn't make that clear?
Mike Vick didn't make that clear?

This latest reaction is exactly nothing more than "here, have a sacrificial lamb, now leave us alone".

[DaddyTorgo]

What part of "most people don't really give a shit" isn't clear yet?

Ray Lewis didn't make that clear?
Mike Vick didn't make that clear?

This latest reaction is exactly nothing more than "here, have a sacrificial lamb, now leave us alone".

Oh no, it absolutely made it clear.

Doesn't mean I don't continue to be taken aback by it when it's brought to light.

Particularly when it's not somebody in a local market, if you don't follow the league 24/7 you might not have any idea. I'm probably more of a casual fan - I don't play fantasy, don't watch RedZone, don't even watch games other than my team. Don't watch ESPN/NFL Network. I had no idea about Hardy. I had only the faintest idea about McDonald too (and that only because of the Rice thing and the new policies and the timing). Didn't know Harbaugh's verbatim comments on it though.

Sooner or later the straw has to break the camel's back though. Or at least...one hopes.

[Fidatelo]

If the straw doesn't break the camel's back maybe one of these abusive man-monsters can find a way...

[molson]

The Hardy procedure is a little weird because he still has a jury trial pending this fall, which is an automatic right a North Carolina defendant has after being found guilty at a bench trial. If it were up to me, he'd be suspended pending the outcome of the jury trial, but it's a little different than Grantland made it sound.

[BillJasper]

Goodell is just following orders. Symptom of a larger problem.

I have a feeling Goodell may be shoved onto the grenade. :lol:

[larrymcg421]

I think it's pretty clear that breaking a camel's back will not end your NFL career.

[Jughead Spock]

Breaking a camel's back at the combines will get you drafted at least 2 rounds higher.

[cartman]

One story going around as to why the video was released now is that it was a disgruntled Revel security employee who released it, after the casino shut down last week.

[flere-imsaho]

I don't think there's going to be a straw that breaks the camel's back. But I do think you we may be at "Peak NFL". Some of this stuff, over time, especially if not dealt with, is going to start to drive people away. Then there's the concussions thing, and if more and more parents start taking that seriously, the talent pool will start to dry up.

It's not going to happen overnight, it's going to be gradual, but if the NFL doesn't deviate from its current path on a few of these big & persistent issues, it's going to go downhill.

[TroyF]

One story going around as to why the video was released now is that it was a disgruntled Revel security employee who released it, after the casino shut down last week.

It's what I've thought from the start. I have little doubt, that at the time of the offense in February, there is only one avenue the NFL had to see that video. That was through Rice's lawyer who would have had to get a copy of that from discovery.

TMZ reverted to TMZ today when they started with the "We'll prove the NFL saw the video" to "The casino would have given the NFL the video"

Ummm, no and no. You didn't prove the NFL saw the video. There is also no way the casino would have given it up to anyone other than the police. The quote is so obviously bad it made me laugh out loud this morning. No business is going to give copies of tapes to anyone who asks for it. No way, no chance.

So then it becomes, why did it happen now? Well, the casino shut down, right? Somebody who has access to the tapes probably needs a little money now that they are unemployed, right? Hmmmm. . . . 2+2=

I believe the NFL should have told Ray he was getting X number of games added to any suspension if he didn't show the video, but I don't know the laws about that kind of behavior.

[thesloppy]

It's interesting (to me at least) to note that the NFL and Goodell are taking a beating in this case, and to some degree it's their own arms applying the punishment.

Goodell and the NFL have made a concerted effort to saturate the world with media and NFL news, and try and squeeze every bit of fan attention they can get out of each and every single person on the planet, and now they're having to suffer through having that excess of attention turned back on themselves.

[henry296]

The Ravens owner released a statement basically saying the video was worse than what Rice told them happened in the elevator before dragging her out.

[bhlloy]

TMZ reverted to TMZ today when they started with the "We'll prove the NFL saw the video" to "The casino would have given the NFL the video"

Ummm, no and no. You didn't prove the NFL saw the video. There is also no way the casino would have given it up to anyone other than the police. The quote is so obviously bad it made me laugh out loud this morning. No business is going to give copies of tapes to anyone who asks for it. No way, no chance.



How many clicks did TMZ get this morning because of that though? The guy is damn smart.

[molson]

TMZ reverted to TMZ today when they started with the "We'll prove the NFL saw the video" to "The casino would have given the NFL the video"

Ummm, no and no. You didn't prove the NFL saw the video. There is also no way the casino would have given it up to anyone other than the police. The quote is so obviously bad it made me laugh out loud this morning. No business is going to give copies of tapes to anyone who asks for it. No way, no chance.

They also reported at one point that NFL staff flew to New Jersey to watch the video. And then they just kind of abandoned that. TMZ is still TMZ.

[Buccaneer]

Obviously if something has been said or written on the internet, it must be true.

[miami_fan]

What part of "most people don't really give a shit" isn't clear yet?

Ray Lewis didn't make that clear?
Mike Vick didn't make that clear?

This latest reaction is exactly nothing more than "here, have a sacrificial lamb, now leave us alone".

And yet this one is different. Neither of the above examples told their teams or the league what they did. By all reports, the team and maybe the league (not absolutely sure if the NFL knew all the details) knew exactly what went on in that elevator. With that exact description from Rice and the video aftermath, they are telling us they NEEDED to see the action in the elevator to grasp that it could be a fire-able offense or one worthy of a greater suspension.

[TroyF]

They also reported at one point that NFL staff flew to New Jersey to watch the video. And then they just kind of abandoned that. TMZ is still TMZ.

Exactly. As I said yesterday, good on them for getting the footage. I think it will be very beneficial long term. Yet, they are still tmz.

I keep hearing mixed reports from insiders. One group says Rice and the fiance told the, exactly what happened. The other group is stating he did not state the full truth and him and the wife grossly overstated her role. (As in she was physical with him, the punch was more of a shove, etc).


One last thing for today. . . I am truly stunned the Ravens did not send the entire management team to the interview room. They have consistently screwed this up. I can just hear their meeting. "Well guys, we have screwed it royally, but I still think we can go the extra mile here. Harbaugh, we will hide out in here. You give an interview and make sure it is emotionless. Try to pretend you do not have a wife and daughter and continue to voice soothing words of encouragement to him, k? We will also delete a tweet or two to show how understanding we are. Everyone on the same page, ok, on 3. . . RAVENS!!!


god, these guys are idiots.

[stevew]

Given that the Casino just closed, I'm guessing someone in the security department sold it to TMZ?

[CU Tiger]

I made this statement here years ago and I stand by it today.
(Please dont mistake this for me condoning the behavior)
So long as we glorify the last remaining gladiator sport on the planet, and make no mistake these guys ARE gladiators, the likes of which UFC and Boxing "world" champs would run and hide from, we are all hypocrites to be aghast when the lion also scratches a cub after eating three Christians on Sunday.

I know the NFL is glitz, glamour and all things fun. But having spent exactly 1 training camp in those trenches, and knowing countless dear friends who have been eaten, chewed up, and spit out by the giant machine...its imperative that we all realize what we are witnessing. Janay Rice isnt a victim of circumstance, she is a victim of what we have created. The game today is more violent than ever. That takes a toll on human psyche.

Through a thrid party "friend of a friend" I know a guy who is "very close" to Mike Vick (Check the record, I have said repeatedly that Vick is a POS who deserves the fate he imparted on those helpless animals) ...After the dust settled over a drink and a private chat one night, one NFL'er to another the question was asked of Vick "How could you stand there and listen to those pups cry for their life" Vick's alleged answer "Man it was twisted for sure. But to be honest an average snap on Sunday sounds about the same. Youve been there, youve heard it...those are human being screaming as their career or their quality of life ends....and the stands cheer wildly and the great warrior who inflicted that carnage. Dont persecute me because I did the same to a dog. If my name was Blanks and those dogs were Vick, Jones, Anderson would it then be ok?"

I am not a Ray Rice fan and think he deserves everything thats coming to him, but please this isnt new. Why did the NFL twist ESPN's arm to get Playmakers off the air as soon as they entered into domestic violence territory...its an issue. And one bigger than PEDs, bigger than concussions, bigger than any other main stream story line...a lot of "animals" sharpen their claws for Sunday by beating up on the sacrificial lambs Monday thru Thursday.

[Toddzilla]

Chris Brown doesn't see what the big deal is....ride it out, Ray, you'll be back on the field next season.

[Blackadar]

The Ravens owner released a statement basically saying the video was worse than what Rice told them happened in the elevator before dragging her out.

As I said before, we already knew that Ray cold-cocked her in the elevator. What real evidence did the video provide that's new to this story?

[Desnudo]

I don't think there's going to be a straw that breaks the camel's back. But I do think you we may be at "Peak NFL". Some of this stuff, over time, especially if not dealt with, is going to start to drive people away. Then there's the concussions thing, and if more and more parents start taking that seriously, the talent pool will start to dry up.

It's not going to happen overnight, it's going to be gradual, but if the NFL doesn't deviate from its current path on a few of these big & persistent issues, it's going to go downhill.

It could be. It happened in boxing even if it's making a lot of money today for some stars. No where near as popular as the 80s.

[Dutch]

As I said before, we already knew that Ray cold-cocked her in the elevator. What real evidence did the video provide that's new to this story?

Video evidence is obviously a very powerful substitute for "just the facts".

Like somebody mentioned above, if we had video evidence of Vick and/or his buddies slamming wounded fighting dogs into the pavement until death, he wouldn't be quite so lovable today.

[DaddyTorgo]

I made this statement here years ago and I stand by it today.
(Please dont mistake this for me condoning the behavior)
So long as we glorify the last remaining gladiator sport on the planet, and make no mistake these guys ARE gladiators, the likes of which UFC and Boxing "world" champs would run and hide from, we are all hypocrites to be aghast when the lion also scratches a cub after eating three Christians on Sunday.

I know the NFL is glitz, glamour and all things fun. But having spent exactly 1 training camp in those trenches, and knowing countless dear friends who have been eaten, chewed up, and spit out by the giant machine...its imperative that we all realize what we are witnessing. Janay Rice isnt a victim of circumstance, she is a victim of what we have created. The game today is more violent than ever. That takes a toll on human psyche.

Through a thrid party "friend of a friend" I know a guy who is "very close" to Mike Vick (Check the record, I have said repeatedly that Vick is a POS who deserves the fate he imparted on those helpless animals) ...After the dust settled over a drink and a private chat one night, one NFL'er to another the question was asked of Vick "How could you stand there and listen to those pups cry for their life" Vick's alleged answer "Man it was twisted for sure. But to be honest an average snap on Sunday sounds about the same. Youve been there, youve heard it...those are human being screaming as their career or their quality of life ends....and the stands cheer wildly and the great warrior who inflicted that carnage. Dont persecute me because I did the same to a dog. If my name was Blanks and those dogs were Vick, Jones, Anderson would it then be ok?"

I am not a Ray Rice fan and think he deserves everything thats coming to him, but please this isnt new. Why did the NFL twist ESPN's arm to get Playmakers off the air as soon as they entered into domestic violence territory...its an issue. And one bigger than PEDs, bigger than concussions, bigger than any other main stream story line...a lot of "animals" sharpen their claws for Sunday by beating up on the sacrificial lambs Monday thru Thursday.

Totally agree with everything you said here.

[gstelmack]

The Ravens owner released a statement basically saying the video was worse than what Rice told them happened in the elevator before dragging her out.

Don't we still have the tweet here where the Ravens said what he told them matched what was in the elevator?

At some point they'll all get their stories straight.

[molson]

I made this statement here years ago and I stand by it today.
(Please dont mistake this for me condoning the behavior)
So long as we glorify the last remaining gladiator sport on the planet, and make no mistake these guys ARE gladiators, the likes of which UFC and Boxing "world" champs would run and hide from, we are all hypocrites to be aghast when the lion also scratches a cub after eating three Christians on Sunday.

I know the NFL is glitz, glamour and all things fun. But having spent exactly 1 training camp in those trenches, and knowing countless dear friends who have been eaten, chewed up, and spit out by the giant machine...its imperative that we all realize what we are witnessing. Janay Rice isnt a victim of circumstance, she is a victim of what we have created. The game today is more violent than ever. That takes a toll on human psyche.

Through a thrid party "friend of a friend" I know a guy who is "very close" to Mike Vick (Check the record, I have said repeatedly that Vick is a POS who deserves the fate he imparted on those helpless animals) ...After the dust settled over a drink and a private chat one night, one NFL'er to another the question was asked of Vick "How could you stand there and listen to those pups cry for their life" Vick's alleged answer "Man it was twisted for sure. But to be honest an average snap on Sunday sounds about the same. Youve been there, youve heard it...those are human being screaming as their career or their quality of life ends....and the stands cheer wildly and the great warrior who inflicted that carnage. Dont persecute me because I did the same to a dog. If my name was Blanks and those dogs were Vick, Jones, Anderson would it then be ok?"

I am not a Ray Rice fan and think he deserves everything thats coming to him, but please this isnt new. Why did the NFL twist ESPN's arm to get Playmakers off the air as soon as they entered into domestic violence territory...its an issue. And one bigger than PEDs, bigger than concussions, bigger than any other main stream story line...a lot of "animals" sharpen their claws for Sunday by beating up on the sacrificial lambs Monday thru Thursday.

I don't think animal torture or beating your wife unconscious is the same as playing football, nor do I think we should excuse that conduct from football players. Is that really what you're saying? Do you agree with Vick? We should give him a pass because people tackle him in a sport (a sport he chooses to pay, mind you)? Fuck that. That is the dumbest thing I've ever read. But it shows Vick's criminal mindset. I've seen photos and videos of the result of animal torture, and domestic violence. It's not the same as football. Vick is monster who continues to be a danger to society, and not just animals. Yes, you can get injured if you choose to play football, and Vick probably thinks that the animals and abused women ultimately deserve what happen to them, so he sees those things similarly.

And aren't you a pretty big football fan? Aren't you a part of that "system"? If you believe what you wrote here, and you don't give a shit and support football anyway, I don't know what to think.

[Logan]

Darren Rovell reminded me that Rice and his wife named their daughter Rayven.

[TroyF]

I made this statement here years ago and I stand by it today.
(Please dont mistake this for me condoning the behavior)
So long as we glorify the last remaining gladiator sport on the planet, and make no mistake these guys ARE gladiators, the likes of which UFC and Boxing "world" champs would run and hide from, we are all hypocrites to be aghast when the lion also scratches a cub after eating three Christians on Sunday.

I know the NFL is glitz, glamour and all things fun. But having spent exactly 1 training camp in those trenches, and knowing countless dear friends who have been eaten, chewed up, and spit out by the giant machine...its imperative that we all realize what we are witnessing. Janay Rice isnt a victim of circumstance, she is a victim of what we have created. The game today is more violent than ever. That takes a toll on human psyche.

Through a thrid party "friend of a friend" I know a guy who is "very close" to Mike Vick (Check the record, I have said repeatedly that Vick is a POS who deserves the fate he imparted on those helpless animals) ...After the dust settled over a drink and a private chat one night, one NFL'er to another the question was asked of Vick "How could you stand there and listen to those pups cry for their life" Vick's alleged answer "Man it was twisted for sure. But to be honest an average snap on Sunday sounds about the same. Youve been there, youve heard it...those are human being screaming as their career or their quality of life ends....and the stands cheer wildly and the great warrior who inflicted that carnage. Dont persecute me because I did the same to a dog. If my name was Blanks and those dogs were Vick, Jones, Anderson would it then be ok?"

I am not a Ray Rice fan and think he deserves everything thats coming to him, but please this isnt new. Why did the NFL twist ESPN's arm to get Playmakers off the air as soon as they entered into domestic violence territory...its an issue. And one bigger than PEDs, bigger than concussions, bigger than any other main stream story line...a lot of "animals" sharpen their claws for Sunday by beating up on the sacrificial lambs Monday thru Thursday.


This is where arguement jumps the shark for me. Violence and domestic violence is not an NFL problem. It is a societal problem. Simply put, we do not care. Yeah, WE DO NOT CARE.

Highest paid athlete last year? Floyd Mayweather. He has a fight coming up soon. Chris Brown career hurt by bashing Rhianna in the face? Yeah, not really. He made around 70 million last year. Remember Brett Myers? He beat the hell out of his wife with witnesses around and started the next day. Or how about Ray Rice who was given a standing ovation at training camp?

Shut football down tomorrow and we eliminate about .000000002 percent of violence and domestic violence in this country. If yoi do not believe me, go visit a womens shelter in your town. It will be filled to the brim with non NFL wives and girlfriends terrified for their life because their men beat them.

Goodall should be fired. Rice should spend time in jail. That said, we should not be trying to throw this off as "it is a gladiator, roid rage, NFL problem" and pretend the that we have this thing figured out if it were not for those damned footballers.

[stevew]

Darren Rovell reminded me that Rice and his wife named their daughter Rayven.

That's so Rayven