Aaron Hernandez is guilty of murder

[stevew]

Surprised the trial for one of his alleged murders starts today.

Make your predictions-

[stevew]

I believe the charges are first degree murder, and a bunch of weapons charges.

[Lathum]

I think he goes away for a longtime time

[stevew]

I have followed it a bit, but didn't realize it was already here. A bunch of the good evidence was tossed(the texts for example)

I just wonder of it's going to be a really hard case and I think he probably walks(even though he did it)

[Warhammer]

What was the basis for throwing out the evidence?

[stevew]

Ambiguity and impossible to prove who sent the texts IIRC(aka he was framed)

[stevew]

Somewhat surprised that one of Hernandez's henchmen hasn't been flipped. Dunno if it's too late to make a deal with them.

Evidence tossed includes mention of the texts, the other pending trial and the incident where Hernandez shot his friend in the face.

[PurdueBrad]

My vote isn't because I don't think he did it. I, in fact, do believe that he did it but the loss of evidence coupled with his celebrity is definitely concerning and, most importantly, I too am stunned that neither of his alleged co-conspirators have flipped.

[Blackadar]

I think they'll pin the whole deflated balls on him and thus he'll get the electric chair. Tom Brady will throw the switch.

[Draft Dodger]

echoing some of the others. He's guilty, but I think he's going to walk unfortunately.

[flere-imsaho]

Same feelings here. I haven't really been following this, but every time I read up on it, it seems like there's something new about how the case is falling apart. He'll walk, but he was probably guilty of something.

[Grover]

Prosecutors: Hernandez's DNA Found On Shell Casing, Joint At Crime Scene (http://deadspin.com/prosecutors-hernandezs-dna-found-on-shell-casing-join-1682782194)

Ooooh.

[bhlloy]

Same feelings here. I haven't really been following this, but every time I read up on it, it seems like there's something new about how the case is falling apart. He'll walk, but he was probably guilty of something.

I dunno, Wetzels article today basically suggested they have him at the scene and it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger at that point according to state law. One of the lawyers could probably comment further (Molson?) but he made it sound like a slam dunk.

[Kodos]

I was on a murder trial in Chicago, and we got him for being at the scene with knowledge of what was going to happen.

[Ben E Lou]

Winner comment from that Deadspin article linked above.


<article class="js_reply reply js_goto_post clearfix" id="reply_1682788499" data-id="1682788499" data-parentid="1682782194" data-authorname="econdave" data-contributors="1" data-initialized="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 23px 0px 0px; transition: 0.2s; -webkit-transition: 0.2s; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 24px; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><header class="no-expand" style="box-sizing: border-box; position: relative; margin-bottom: 1rem;">econdave (http://econdave.kinja.com/)Tom LeyToday 12:03pm (http://deadspin.com/dudes-going-to-jail-for-a-long-time-1682788499)



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</header>Dude's going to jail for a long time.

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fallex (http://fallex.kinja.com/)econdaveToday 12:06pm (http://deadspin.com/not-to-mention-hell-be-getting-a-4-game-suspension-1682789491)



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</header>Not to mention, he'll be getting a 4 game suspension.

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</article></section>

[molson]

In my state, aiding and abetting a crime is the same as being the principle of a crime. It just has to be charged that way, and instructed to the jury that way.

Sometimes there's issues when the charging information and the jury instructions and the facts presented at trial and what the prosecutor argues don't line up right. (the "fatal variance"). It's usually OK to charge things in the alternative, you just can't have a situation where a jury could convict someone on a theory that he wasn't actually charged with. I'm sure they have that shit straightened out in a case like this, but I don't know on what theories they've actually charged him.

And I haven't followed the case at all, but a bunch of evidence being excluded isn't necessarily a bad sign, those battles happen before any big trial, and neither side is going to win all of them. There will be other fights over the jury instructions, and that's what will determine what the jury will actually have to find him guilty.

[Castlerock]

The other murders he is charged with (a 2012 double murder in Boston) have been excluded as evidence. This didn't really register with me because it's not surprising. What I didn't realize is that the prosecutors want to say that Hernandez's motive in the killing is Lloyd's knowledge of the 2012 double murder. Now they can't tell the jury a motive and the defense can just say "There is no motive".

[bhlloy]

Do they really need motive though, if they have him walking with Lloyd to the murder site, walking back shortly after without him and the time lines up with the time of death? I guess like Molson says it depends what they have charged him on, but it still seems very unlikely to me they can't get him on something

[Kodos]

And didn't they find bullets in his rental car?

[stevew]

Reports say that his babymomma will testify for the prosecution. Since she is believed to have disposed of the murder weapon, this is huge news.

[Dutch]

Do they really need motive though, if they have him walking with Lloyd to the murder site, walking back shortly after without him and the time lines up with the time of death? I guess like Molson says it depends what they have charged him on, but it still seems very unlikely to me they can't get him on something

I'm no lawyer, but I thought proving motive was important for 1st degree murder?

[tarcone]

Is wearing the wrong color a motive?

[Dutch]

I've seen Sean Penn's movies...so yes.

[Butter]

I'm no lawyer, but I thought proving motive was important for 1st degree murder?

I don't think you have to prove motive so much as you have to prove that there was some thought that went into it. Even if that thought was just "I want to kill this guy".

[BishopMVP]

Reports say that his babymomma will testify for the prosecution. Since she is believed to have disposed of the murder weapon, this is huge news.Not quite. The prosecution (finally) granted her immunity, so she can no longer plead the 5th, and thus can be jailed for contempt if she refuses to answer questions. Her actions so far have not indicated any likelihood of her helping the prosecution, and unless her testimony helps the police actually find the murder weapon, the defense will be able to cast doubt on much of her testimony since the state's already calling her a liar. (And I suppose if she/Hernandez really didnt want her to testify they could always officially get married. Unless that husband/wife thing is an urban legend.)

[cartman]

(And I suppose if she/Hernandez really didnt want her to testify they could always officially get married. Unless that husband/wife thing is an urban legend.)

Not an urban legend, but the protected communications are only during the time they are married. So anything before the marriage is fair game.

[molson]

The state probably has some theory about motive that they'll lay out during closing argument. Motive isn't an element of the crime, so they don't have to prove what the motive was, but if there's something that can be reasonably inferred from the evidence, even if its vague, juries do like to hear that kind of context. And the jury is instructed that the closing argument portion of the trial isn't "evidence", so the lawyers are free to speculate, within reason, and consistently with the evidence.

[stevew]

Not quite. The prosecution (finally) granted her immunity, so she can no longer plead the 5th, and thus can be jailed for contempt if she refuses to answer questions. Her actions so far have not indicated any likelihood of her helping the prosecution, and unless her testimony helps the police actually find the murder weapon, the defense will be able to cast doubt on much of her testimony since the state's already calling her a liar. (And I suppose if she/Hernandez really didnt want her to testify they could always officially get married. Unless that husband/wife thing is an urban legend.)

I should have known better than to use Mike Florio legal analysis. He made it seem like a pick 6 for the prosecution but ESPN keeps saying that he keeps whispering I love you.

[Castlerock]

I should have known better than to use Mike Florio legal analysis. He made it seem like a pick 6 for the prosecution but ESPN keeps saying that he keeps whispering I love you.
As stated above, she is being given immunity because the state is treating her as a hostile witness. She has not cooperated with the state at all but this removes her ability to plead the 5th. Thus she has to answer questions or they will charge her with obstruction. If she lies, then they will charge her with perjury.

[stevew]

from the defense's closing arguments, Aaron Hernandez witnessed murder but "did not know what to do"


I guess deliberations will start either tonight or tomorrow.

[Logan]

from the defense's closing arguments, Aaron Hernandez witnessed murder but "did not know what to do"


I guess deliberations will start either tonight or tomorrow.

Looked pretty calm on video after the fact (and not at all scared of the supposed murderers).

[PilotMan]

So I've only been following this on the periphery. To those of you who are following it closer, what do you think that the outcome will be?

[digamma]

A law school acquaintance who follows very closely predicts a hung jury.

[SackAttack]

A law school acquaintance who follows very closely predicts a hung jury.

Will Hernandez hang them himself, or merely watch?

(yes, I know, that would be a "hanged" jury, but...)

[molson]

Keep in mind the jury is also considering felony weapon charges in this case, and that Hernandez has already been indicted for murder and other charges relating to that separate double homicide in Boston. And there's two other shootings he's been accused of in Florida where no charges have been filed, but authorizes might take a closer look if anything goes wrong with the Massachusetts cases. So he'll still be in custody no matter what the jury decides.

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Life isn't measured by the amount of breathes we take...it's the moments that take our breathe away!!</p>&mdash; Aaron Hernandez (@AaronHernandez) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronHernandez/status/150266413146316800">December 23, 2011</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Kodos]

Or the moments where you take someone else's breaths away FOREVER.

[Subby]

*breathes

[Desnudo]

Someone so poetic is only guilty of stealing my heart.

[stevew]

A law school acquaintance who follows very closely predicts a hung jury.

Isn't 16 hours of deliberations a good sign that your friend is right?

[EagleFan]

A law school acquaintance who follows very closely predicts a hung jury.

Yeah, but what will their verdict be...

[Barkeep49]

This is the only kind of hung jury I am interested in (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaK_FgrIlYY) (SFW)

[stevew]

5th day of deliberations. Who are these people?

[Barkeep49]

5th day of deliberations. Who are these people?
I think they're exactly the sort of people we'd want on juries.

[corbes]

have the jurors asked any questions?

[Logan]

have the jurors asked any questions?

First day or two they were asking questions related to the gun charges I believe (about both guns and ammo).

[cartman]

Jump Free Willy, jump! Jump with all your might!

[Logan]

Guilty of first degree murder.

[Kodos]

Huzzah!

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/15/us/aaron-hernandez-verdict/

[stevew]

Glad the holdouts finally got some sense.

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Notice how no ones taking about deflategate now? Belichick played the long game on this one folks unconventonal but affective</p>&mdash; PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/588348439676588033">April 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[stevew]

I wish there was something they could nail his fiancee for.

[Grover]

I wish there was something they could nail his fiancee for.

Immunity is good for stopping that, eh?

Complete accessory to the entire thing. Ugh.

[korme]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Notice how no ones taking about deflategate now? Belichick played the long game on this one folks unconventonal but affective</p>&mdash; PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/588348439676588033">April 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Gl1y6qxJ--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/1209857786782896019.gif

[Dutch]

Congrats to the families of the victims.

[albionmoonlight]

Goodell will find a way to screw this up.

[Galaril]

Congrats to the families of the victims.

So does that mean they get there dead loved ones back some how?

[digamma]

Goodell will find a way to screw this up.

Not technically domestic violence, so I think he has some freedom here. Maybe go 4 game suspension instead of 6?

[Chief Rum]

Goodell will find a way to screw this up.

Work release program. The Raiders are already interested.

[molson]

I try not to predict jury verdicts, but I will predict that within about 10-20 years, the Massachusetts Supreme Court will hold that a life sentence without the possibility of parole is cruel and unusual punishment under the Massachusetts state constitution. Those arguments are out there and you can see Massachusetts going down that road similar to some European countries.

[Lathum]

I try not to predict jury verdicts, but I will predict that within about 10-20 years, the Massachusetts Supreme Court will hold that a life sentence without the possibility of parole is cruel and unusual punishment .

I agree it is cruel and unusual.

They should just execute these animals and save us all a lot of time and money.

[Lathum]

Congrats to the families of the victims.

So does that mean they get there dead loved ones back some how?

I found the comment a bit odd as well.

Maybe a civil suit?

[Julio Riddols]

I'm glad I was wrong. There was simply too much evidence, and I am glad his celebrity didn't save him.

[Chief Rum]

I found the comment a bit odd as well.

Maybe a civil suit?

They would be crazy not to pursue that, frankly.

[Dutch]

I found the comment a bit odd as well.

Maybe a civil suit?

For closure and justice.

[Kodos]

All for executing him, but if not, life without parole sounds perfect.

[Marmel]

I agree it is cruel and unusual.

They should just execute these animals and save us all a lot of time and money.

Without getting into a DP debate, it costs more to execute than for life in prison.

[Lathum]

Without getting into a DP debate, it costs more to execute than for life in prison.

Not sure how but I agree not really interested in turning this into that debate.

[molson]

It can take 20-30 years of litigation to execute someone. In fact, defense attorneys are now arguing that it's cruel and unusual punishment to keep someone locked up under threat of death for so long. I can't remember the opinion but one United States Supreme Court Justice expressed some vague agreement with that argument. I don't know if that's all good or bad, I've been involved in that litigation from the executive branch side so I try not to have strong policy opinions on it either way, I'm just representing clients and client agencies and what their policy goals are. But the trends are all there for big changes pretty soon.

[miked]

Clearly I think the litigation for death penalty is needed. Didn't we have like 3-4 releases already in the last few months that were serving death sentences based on withheld evidence and other misconduct?

[RomaGoth]

<iframe title="Embedded Tweet" style="border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(238, 238, 238) rgb(221, 221, 221) rgb(187, 187, 187); -moz-border-top-colors: none; -moz-border-right-colors: none; -moz-border-bottom-colors: none; -moz-border-left-colors: none; border-image: none; max-width: 99%; min-width: 220px; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px; display: block; position: static; visibility: visible; border-radius: 5px; box-shadow: 0px 1px 3px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.15); width: 500px;" allowfullscreen="" class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" id="twitter-widget-0" frameborder="0" height="212"></iframe>
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

unconventonal? affective?

Should have your twitter rights revoked immediately.

:banghead:
<iframe style="display: none;" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" id="rufous-sandbox" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[bhlloy]

unconventonal? affective?

Should have your twitter rights revoked immediately.

:banghead:
<iframe style="display: none;" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" id="rufous-sandbox" frameborder="0"></iframe>

whoooooooooooosh...

[stevew]

Just felt the breeze in Akron.

[stevew]

What do they do about the other case now? Plead him out cause it doesn't matter?

[mckerney]

unconventonal? affective?

Should have your twitter rights revoked immediately.

:banghead:
<iframe style="display: none;" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" id="rufous-sandbox" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Telling > Spelling