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View Full Version : Drafting QBs In The Top Five


Ben E Lou
02-06-2015, 09:23 AM
Here are the QBs taken with one of the top 5 overall picks since the conversion to FOF7 in the IHOF.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="398"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:4315;width:89pt" width="118"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2742;width:56pt" width="75"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2816;width:58pt" width="77"> <col style="width:48pt" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.0pt;width:89pt; font-size:11.0pt;color:white;font-weight:700;text-decoration:none;text-underline-style: none;text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black;background: black;mso-pattern:black none" height="20" width="118">NAME</td> <td class="xl65" style="width:48pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:white; font-weight:700;text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through: none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none; border-bottom:none;border-left:none;background:black;mso-pattern:black none" width="64">TEAM</td> <td class="xl65" style="width:56pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:white; font-weight:700;text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through: none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none; border-bottom:none;border-left:none;background:black;mso-pattern:black none" width="75">MAXCUR</td> <td class="xl65" style="width:58pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:white; font-weight:700;text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through: none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none; border-bottom:none;border-left:none;background:black;mso-pattern:black none" width="77">DRAFTED</td> <td class="xl65" style="width:48pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:white; font-weight:700;text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through: none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none;background:black;mso-pattern:black none" width="64">YEAR DRAFTED
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Conner Cantwell (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=34091)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">BOR</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">30</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(3)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2042</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Wade Germaine (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=34966)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">SNP</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">48</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(3)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2043</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Bryan Rhodes (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=36639)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">FBK</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">35</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(5)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2045</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Declan Knight (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=36640)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">HAR</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">31</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(3)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2045</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Jayce Powell (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=36652)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">HOU</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">50</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(2)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2045</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">Bryson Chow (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=36610)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">MAA</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">49</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: none;border-left:none">1(1)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:none;border-left:none">2045</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl66" style="height:15.0pt;font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1; font-weight:400;text-decoration:underline;text-underline-style:single; text-line-through:none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black; border-right:none;border-bottom:.5pt solid black;border-left:.5pt solid black" height="20">C.J. Mahoney (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=38251)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: .5pt solid black;border-left:none">AUG</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: .5pt solid black;border-left:none">14</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:none;border-bottom: .5pt solid black;border-left:none">1(2)</td> <td class="xl65" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;font-weight:400; text-decoration:none;text-underline-style:none;text-line-through:none; font-family:Calibri;border-top:.5pt solid black;border-right:.5pt solid black; border-bottom:.5pt solid black;border-left:none">2047</td> </tr> </tbody></table>


Drafting Players

Would you draft a punter in the first round? It happened once, and Ray Guy went on to be fairly valuable for the Raider franchise. But in general, kickers and punters are not high draft picks. Currently (2013), there's one first-round kicker, one second-round kicker and two third-round punters playing professionally.


I wanted the computer-run franchises in Front Office Football to draft in a realistic manner. So the player valuations have to be reflected in how teams have drafted over the years. I found that quarterbacks, especially top-echelon quarterbacks, were valued more than anyone. They were followed by defensive linemen and halfbacks. Kickers, centers, guards and tight ends were the least valued.


When computer-run teams draft or trade players, they will value players similarly. Top-notch quarterbacks simply don't switch teams unless there's a very good reason.



Here's a chart I compiled showing the currently active players at each position by the level they were drafted. The first number shows how often a player from that position was drafted in the top three picks of the draft related to how many players there are from that position in the league. The second number shows that frequency for the entire first round. And the third number shows the correlation between perceived performance and round selected.


<center> <table border="1"> <tbody> <tr> <td>Position </td><th>Top 3 Picks</th> <th>First Round</th> <th>Level of Play per Pick</th></tr> <tr> <td>QB</td> <td>14.7</td> <td>28.4</td> <td>0.40</td></tr> <tr> <td>HB</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>12.8</td> <td>0.57</td></tr> <tr> <td>FB</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>0.00</td></tr> <tr> <td>TE</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>6.7</td> <td>0.57</td></tr> <tr> <td>WR</td> <td>1.1</td> <td>11.9</td> <td>0.56</td></tr> <tr> <td>C</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>7.5</td> <td>0.46</td></tr> <tr> <td>G</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>8.8</td> <td>0.48</td></tr> <tr> <td>T</td> <td>3.3</td> <td>22.0</td> <td>0.66</td></tr> <tr> <td>P</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>0.04</td></tr> <tr> <td>K</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>2.5</td> <td>0.26</td></tr> <tr> <td>DE</td> <td>2.7</td> <td>20.7</td> <td>0.56</td></tr> <tr> <td>DT</td> <td>2.2</td> <td>12.6</td> <td>0.45</td></tr> <tr> <td>ILB</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>6.2</td> <td>0.64</td></tr> <tr> <td>OLB</td> <td>0.6</td> <td>19.4</td> <td>0.57</td></tr> <tr> <td>CB</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>15.4</td> <td>0.48</td></tr> <tr> <td>S</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>10.9</td> <td>0.57</td></tr></tbody></table></center>

The difference in correlation between quarterbacks and offensive tackles, for example, is .40 versus .66. This means drafting a tackle in a higher round is much more reliable than drafting a quarterback. Yet teams keep using their top picks to draft quarterbacks. That underscores the importance of the quarterback position. You can't survive in the league without one, so even though it's harder to scout that position than any other, you keep trying.

Ben E Lou
02-06-2015, 09:24 AM
Looking around at some other leagues, the success rate at IHOF appears to be worse, but not *that* much worse. There are some pretty big misses.

Julio Riddols
02-06-2015, 09:36 AM
I recently spent a high pick on a QB in RNFL, but he got the VSOD before his second season. It was depressing. Prior to VSOD, he was headed toward being a high 70's guy. I have missed on QB's, but I usually don't draft them high unless I am almost positive they are a stud in the making. It isn't often that happens.

I actually think this VSOD case is the only QB I have ever drafted in the top 5 in my MP career.

gstelmack
02-06-2015, 10:22 AM
I wonder if it's worth a study of scout error correlating to that table. Are bars more accurate for tackles in the draft than QBs?

Ben E Lou
02-06-2015, 10:27 AM
I recently spent a high pick on a QB in RNFL, but he got the VSOD before his second season. It was depressing. Prior to VSOD, he was headed toward being a high 70's guy. I have missed on QB's, but I usually don't draft them high unless I am almost positive they are a stud in the making. It isn't often that happens.

I actually think this VSOD case is the only QB I have ever drafted in the top 5 in my MP career.I'm wondering if some of these "VSOD" QBs aren't what we were used to seeing in FOF2K7. The sample size is small, but we seem to be seeing wayyyyyyyyyyyy more big drops in highly-touted QB talent than in the previous game. It could be that volatility is applied with greater frequency with QBs, or it could be that something else entirely is at work (higher frequency of combine/bar masking would be the most obvious guess there.)

3ric
02-06-2015, 10:56 AM
I wonder if it's worth a study of scout error correlating to that table. Are bars more accurate for tackles in the draft than QBs?

Isn't it easier for scouts getting it correct for tackles considering the number of ratings are just four compared to, I dont know, 12 for the QBs?

Abe Sargent
02-06-2015, 11:21 AM
I have no f;'ing clue was VSOD means. Can use English please? :)

aston217
02-06-2015, 11:23 AM
I would assume volatility is applied more frequently based on position, or draft status, or both. Jim seems to have an interest in reflecting real-life bust rates.

The bonus paid to top 3 picks is similar before it starts to drop steeply. There's a big drop from pick 5 to pick 6.

In summary there's kind of a sweet spot in the early to mid parts of Round 1 where the talent level should be fairly flush, but your investment in bonus is much lower, so you are much more protected against the level of risk #1 through #3 assume. Those guys may enjoy the prime picks, but man do they have to hit 'em.

aston217
02-06-2015, 11:24 AM
VSOD means volatility stick of death -- when pure randomness takes a swing at the knees and wipes out an otherwise promising player.

AlexB
02-06-2015, 11:54 AM
I've always preferred Velocity Stick Of Doom, it's goes better with my image of Jim cackling like a cartoon villain every time it hits an FOF player :D

Abe Sargent
02-06-2015, 01:38 PM
What does it look like when it hits?

Julio Riddols
02-06-2015, 02:17 PM
My QB went from 50/64 to 32/39 according to the league scout. It looks like that blurry thing that happens when you're in the middle of a good cry.

NawlinsFan
02-06-2015, 02:27 PM
My QB went from 50/64 to 32/39 according to the league scout. It looks like that blurry thing that happens when you're in the middle of a good cry.

Or that warm glow and smile on your face after seeing the rating drop when someone else traded up and took that pick just before you did in the draft.

aston217
02-06-2015, 02:42 PM
Yeah, it looks something like that. You can't always tell what was inevitable rookie ratings revelations and what was pure random chance. Large movements in their static bars or significant downward trends in current ratings are usually a good sign, but not necessarily, I suppose.

It was easier to tell in the last version of the game. Now, there's just a lot more movement period.

Julio Riddols
02-06-2015, 04:26 PM
Or that warm glow and smile on your face after seeing the rating drop when someone else traded up and took that pick just before you did in the draft.

*SHAKES FIST*

garion333
02-06-2015, 05:02 PM
What does it look like when it hits?

http://cdn1.bloguin.com/thisgivensunday/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2013/10/JaMarcus-Russell.jpg

Dutch
02-06-2015, 05:26 PM
I have no f;'ing clue was VSOD means. Can use English please? :)

How in the good graces does somebody who decided to create an account at FOFC one day and then rack up 26,500 posts not know what VSOD means??? I didn't think this was possible! It's like watching 10 years of football, week in and week out and then asking "What's off-sides mean?"

:)

Abe Sargent
02-06-2015, 07:34 PM
How in the good graces does somebody who decided to create an account at FOFC one day and then rack up 26,500 posts not know what VSOD means??? I didn't think this was possible! It's like watching 10 years of football, week in and week out and then asking "What's off-sides mean?"

:)

Okay, but if you used the same analogy but inserted the offsides rule for association football, then you can see what I'm talking about, right? That that rule still confuses me. :p