NYT Article: "Please Don't Thank Me for My Service" [Archive]

Scoobz0202

02-23-2015, 07:37 AM

Taking care of veterans is my job. I have had a few feel the same way when they opened up to me at times. A major theme I have got from them, and from the article, is the hollowness that they feel when it is said. It has almost become a phrase like, "Hi, how are you?" where it is the norm, an expected way to greet somebody, yet at the same time, do you really want to know and hear how somebody is doing? With regards to the thanking, it comes across as hollow because people almost say it reflexively with no true gratitude or emotion behind it. I can see where people think the soldiers are being selfish or whatever, but there is so much behind each soldier's story that I can see where something that they deem hollow can be offensive, or annoying. They'd rather their service just not be acknowledged than trivialized.

When it comes to vets of the current war I've tended to just ask their branch and if they served overseas, and sometimes leave it at that. But then again I develop a relationship throughout the day where I come across as more genuine, I guess. I have also noticed that coworkers that are vets themselves have a much easier time connecting and receiving warm responses from the vets themselves, for obvious reasons.

Warhammer

02-23-2015, 08:13 AM

I think the problem with this is from the drive by mentality that we have as a society today. We think we fulfill our obligations by saying something rather than doing something.

Too often, we believe saying something that takes 5 seconds makes everything in the world better. When, we need to actually do something for them, whether it is time listening, doing something to help, etc. That is what makes the difference.

Tigercat

02-23-2015, 08:15 AM

I think the problem with being against the sentiment is not realizing it serves a place for society to remember that those in the armed services are serving, that they are sacrificing for the good of the whole. The day the public ignores their presence as if they are just another Joe on the street is the day that the public cares even less about helping them to take care of themselves after they serve. That would be a shame.

timmae

02-23-2015, 08:17 AM

I have given the canned "thanks" (although with true appreciation) and have received both warm and not so warm responses. I also "get" what the article is saying and will likely modify my expression of gratitude because of it.

Side note.. I think it is saddening that people, in this case veterans but it can be any "group", connect in a stronger way at the expense of others. Seriously? I understand that there is a set of circumstances that bring people together but don't assume you know others' intentions when you yourself don't make your intentions clear. Rant over.

Hopefully these types of articles spur more communication and less isolation.

flere-imsaho

02-23-2015, 08:31 AM

I could write a novel on this, but won't.

I think it's instructive that when people tell my brother "thanks" for his service and ask how he's doing, they generally get very uncomfortable hearing about his PTSD, migranes and chronic spinal issues from his service. In general, he's found it's easier all around to say "fine, thanks" and move on.

JPhillips

02-23-2015, 08:41 AM

This is a good companion piece if you missed it.

the-tragedy-of-the-american-military (http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/)

This reverent but disengaged attitude toward the military—we love the troops, but we’d rather not think about them—has become so familiar that we assume it is the American norm.

Desnudo

02-23-2015, 08:48 AM

I agree with the general sentiment of the article although I do think it's important that our troops know that most Americans support them. Despite the comment, I don't think anyone would prefer getting spit on. Like suggested, the best way to support our troops is through helping them transition back to civilian life.

Edit: of course that's a lot harder than just saying the equivalent of "how's it going?"

Young Drachma

02-23-2015, 12:42 PM

Yeah it's always weird to me, especially since I wasn't injured or anything. It could've worse and I know people who died, but...I always feel a little awkward when I get told it.

SackAttack

02-23-2015, 02:12 PM

I agree with the general sentiment of the article although I do think it's important that our troops know that most Americans support them.

I'd argue that "most Americans" support the idea of supporting the troops, though. Nobody wants to be accused of being unpatriotic, but it's easier to say "Thank you" than to approach a homeless veteran and offer them a room and three squares and help them get back on their feet (12% of the adult homeless population are veterans).

Just a thought.

tarcone

02-23-2015, 02:16 PM

Im glad this came up. I have never said thanks to a vet because I felt uncomfortable doing it. I have thought I should, but never go through with actually doing it.

albionmoonlight

02-23-2015, 02:42 PM

There is a small subset of people I know who use supporting the troops as cover for making any personal sacrifices.

These are people whom I strongly suspect are not making any sacrifices of their own time, money, or comfort. But they are ALWAYS POSTING about how they SUPPORT THE TROOPS on Facebook and the like. They REALLY REALLY SUPPORT AND PRAY FOR THE TROOPS. And they are always demanding that you SHARE THIS on behalf of the TROOPS.

And if they are forwarded an instance of someone not supporting the troops? Well then, all bets are off. They will share and/or forward that instance and let us know that they DO NOT APPROVE. Because WE SHOULD SUPPORT THE TROOPS. SHARE IF YOU AGREE!!!!!

I know that this isn't really what the article is trying to get at. And I think that most people who express support do so sincerely. But there is that really annoying group of people who think that if they can just hit SHARE on every bit of mindless patriotic stuff that comes across their computer screen, they have done their part for the world.

thesloppy

02-23-2015, 04:39 PM

"Thank you for your service" does sound quite trite. You could just as easily say the same thing to your waiter, and I could see how conflicted veterans could begin to find it hollow and frustrating to have strangers repeatedly say the same tired phrase to you, under the auspices of respect.

On the other hand, there is a part of me that also honestly wonders what particular point our foreign policy and/or military industry has to reach before a citizen's thanks are not necessarily required for military service, and how close are we to that point right now? How much of a threat to my personal security is necessary to elicit my thanks? Do I owe thanks to FBI drone pilots flying missions that I will never know about? Do I owe thanks to Blackwater mercenaries? It's a prickly question that's only getting pricklier as the US'es definition of war seems to be ever evolving into murkier and murkier forms. It's no wonder to me that modern soldiers who have to try to wrestle with these same questions, but at the risk of their lives, and with no real input of their own or definitive answers to be had, are coming home just as conflicted as ever.

With all of that said, I do absolutely respect the hard, brave decision every veteran has made to serve in the armed forces, and I don't mean this to sound like a criticism of soldiers/soldiering in any way. War sucks, and the next country/group/force to "do it the right way" will also be the first.

CraigSca

02-23-2015, 07:35 PM

Interesting topic. I've personally that WW2 vets that I've seen, but only because they're wearing a hat from the ship/division/whatever of where they served in a public place.

Galaxy

02-23-2015, 10:52 PM

Just read this article. I was hoping for your thoughts on this.

Blah...didn't post my thoughts for some reason.

I can relate to the points they said. It does feel weird to say it for two reasons:

1) Saying something feels kind of empty. It's a bit of a cop out. As a country, we really have let down the military with the VA, jobs, ect. after they come home. Show it, don't say it.

2) The political aspect. We, as the American voters, put them in situations that maybe we should not have. Do you say, "Thank you for serving in something I don't believe in?"

RainMaker

02-24-2015, 12:42 AM

Interesting article and discussion. I have a friend in the military who made fun of the people who would say that and seemed to imply his friends did the same.

Bobble

02-24-2015, 07:52 AM

I guess I'm lost. So an expression of respect and thanks to someone who has chosen a tough, dangerous job -- although sometimes that expression can be hollow or trite -- is worse than nothing? I get that the recipient may feel uncomfortable or recognize a lack of sincerity in the giver at times but is this expression universally thought of as a "bad move"?

I thought we had reached a point where that expression being very common meant that we could appreciate the service of the individual without necessarily agreeing with overall political policy. Shows what I know.

timmae

02-24-2015, 08:47 AM

Interesting article and discussion. I have a friend in the military who made fun of the people who would say that and seemed to imply his friends did the same.

No offense to anyone but that is a BS move.

molson

02-24-2015, 09:11 AM

This kind of thing is a pretty popular social media topic generally - "What not to say to soldiers", "what not to say to someone who just got a divorce", "What not to say to someone with a disabled child", etc. There's definitely stupid and insensitive things to say to anyone and we can all listen better and try to be better people, but at the same time, 99% of people are just trying to say the right thing and can't possibly come up with the perfect line in all contexts. Everyone has their own personal struggles, everyone has gone through shit, many have gone through really heavy shit that most others could never completely understand. That's not a trait exclusive to soldiers. It's great when random strangers try to connect with those various struggles and express sympathy, but it seems a lot to ask to to require everyone to know what the perfect thing is to say in the face of all of these millions of types of struggles, and it seems pretentious for soldiers to criticize them or laugh behind their back when they don't say the perfect thing for that one specific struggle they happened to confront some random day at the airport.

And did the article really conclude (in a "half-joking" way) that instead of saying this people should just hand soldiers cash? I mean, if you're super connected to the struggle of veterans, that'd definitely be a cool thing to do, but we're all individually connected with different kinds of "causes", things that inspire us to be generous, etc. Struggling veterans are just one of those causes. Maybe someone is more connected to and inspired by helping terminally ill children or victims of domestic violence and they donate money to those causes. I suppose if they see a solider at any airport they should avoid them and maybe try not to make eye contact, so they don't risk offending them by doing something stupid in the moment like saying thanks.

Edit: And I'll assume that these soldiers who are super critical about this (and I have to believe it's a minority) are 100% perfect when it comes to what to say to people who have lost a young child to an illness, or who are slowly going blind, or have a terminal illness etc. Because if they're not, then they're self-centered assholes who thinks the world revolves around them and that everyone else's problems are trivial by comparison.

JonInMiddleGA

02-24-2015, 11:37 AM

Not exactly an article to pin a position on considering the sources the writer cherry-picked.

A security guard for dope dealers, a left wingnut and an aspiring author.

Forgive me if I don't consider them an entirely representative sample of the nation's veterans.

AlexB

02-24-2015, 12:15 PM

Personally I thought the article was formulaic, trite and (ironically) very insincere. Reminded me of Bart Simpson doing his news reporting: pretending to say something without having any depth whatsoever.

The subject matter is interesting, and I can see why the vets could find it awkward, but the article itself was terribly written IMO

Galaril

02-24-2015, 12:41 PM

I served from Desert Storm till late 90s in the Air Force spending over 12 years overseas straight and frankly did appreciate it anytime someone said this and have shared my service info briefly with fellow vets I see, and let them know I do understand what they have sacrificed and do appreciate it.

CU Tiger

02-24-2015, 01:10 PM

I'm a bit of a minority amongst my extended family as one who didnt serve.
I shared this with them via email and asked their honest opinion we all exchanged quite an email string last night here are some of their thoughts in case anyone else finds the variety as interesting as I do.

That is a pretty strong article.

Sometimes when I get it, I can feel that it isnt a heartfelt "thanks". Just as the article describes. Sometimes I can sense that there is some emotion involved. One big difference I can tell are the people that will yell it halfway across the parking lot - it seems like they are the ones wanting the attention. The ones that will walk halfway across the parking lot out of their way to shake your hand seems a little more impressive.

It still feels semi empty. If you dont know me, you dont know what I have done. I will leave it at that - those that do know me, you know.

I do what I do to keep the shit off our doorstep. If it does get to our doorstep, guess who will be there to defend it.

You wear the uniform well soldier.
And you know my history as one also

I read the article. I do not want to be thanked nor do I thank others for serving. For me, in my time, it was what I was supposed to do. We were at war and the "revolution" of the 60s hadn't set in yet. From my perspective my country needed me, enough said, I went. I just did what thousands before me had done. Nothing special, nothing I need to be thanked for. You don't need to thank me for taking care of my family, sending my kids to college, returning the wallet I find on the street with all contents intact, shoveling my invalid neighbors walk, it's a part of who I am, I don't need thanks for that, what I would like to see is that it causes others to do the same!

Well said as always 'guy above me'. Sometimes people do it for the right reasons and it can make you feel good at the time but then it can bring back a lot of bad memories too. So just remember we joined on our own free will cause of our love of this country. And we hold things to ourselves not to be rude or mean but cause not all of it is fun and games like people want to believe.

Not a lot to add as someone who never served I dont get it and in my mind I am not entitled to an opinion. But some interesting perspective from 4 friends who all saw active combat duty.

Poli

02-24-2015, 01:36 PM

I've always been uncomfortable with people thanking me. I had a teenager thank me yesterday. I never felt like I did something to be thanked for.

I was in the Navy. A radar technician and instructor. I supported the efforts of those that made larger sacrifices than I ever did.

I did tell the teen, "You're welcome", but I'll always feel like that thanks should be directed to those that had boots on the ground.

TroyF

02-24-2015, 09:28 PM

No offense to anyone but that is a BS move.

It is a garbage move.

Feel uncomfortable? Ok. Tell the person they appreciate the sentiments, but do not like hearing it? Ok too. Commiserate with your buddies and agree that you hate it? Perfectly ok.

Make fun of people and put them down, even behind their back? Sad. Very, very sad.

RainMaker

02-24-2015, 09:44 PM

No offense to anyone but that is a BS move.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean he made fun of them to their faces or anything. He's a real nice guy who is gracious to everyone who comes up to him. I just know they find the people who will come up to them out of nowhere while they're eating or something and "thank them for their service" to be oddballs.

I'd also add that I know him and his friends don't like the wives/girlfriends who turn being a military wife/girlfriend into their identity. The people who do nothing but post stuff on their Facebook walls about that stuff.

I don't know if that's the norm or anything but I found it interesting that they had those feelings.

Edward64

02-24-2015, 10:44 PM

I don't go out of my way to say thank you but like to think I do when the opportunity presents itself.

I was sitting in economy beside a soldier and the flight attendant came by and said I was upgraded. I offered the upgrade seat to the soldier but he said no thanks and that he preferred sitting close by his buddies.

There was another time when I sat beside a soldier in economy and offered him my free drink vouchers.

What do you guys think are the best charity/support groups to donate money to?

Qwikshot

02-25-2015, 06:15 AM

I guess my problem is that yes I'm aware it's a job or vocation or whatever, but it's no different if you thank an officer, or firefighter, or paramedic.

It's a little off putting as an article. I would assume that if we didn't see such admiration for our troops there would be articles that we don't appreciate them enough.

Just seems like click-bait.

If a private citizen goes up to a solider and thanks them for service, that is their prerogative, much as it is for the solider to either accept it or reject it (i.e. "just doing my job").

Most people can barely manage their own issues in life, seeing a soldier go off to war or the assumption they are doing so can put it in to a little perspective.

I never asked my grandfather about the war, he was at Saipan. Nor did I ask my uncle who was in Korea. I believe they dealt with it differently back then, of course, there was appreciation. Vietnam was a polarization that I can't imagine though I see reverberations in the political climate of today.

I have a distinct memory as a child of going to a packed Christmas mass and seeing a soldier in uniform give up his seat to a mother with child at the expense of sitting with his own family.

I also know my father who knew friends who went to Vietnam or was affected by it could not bear to walk past the Vietnam memorial.

It just feels that these veterans in the article suffer from the experience and don't want to be elevated to a hero status, I get it, but at the same time, to disavow their sacrifice (even if it was being a logistics manager or a radar tech or a mechanic) seems like it's the guilty conscience of our society on these wars, that maybe it wasn't on the level.

I don't know. Maybe it is projected nobility, but I think there is a big difference between someone saying thank-you and someone asking them if they killed someone, or cheering them for killing the enemy.

Sorry, long ramble.

flere-imsaho

02-25-2015, 07:30 AM

What do you guys think are the best charity/support groups to donate money to?

I have no idea nationally, but here in Maine we've been quite involved in this program (http://www.goodwillnne.org/services/workforce/adult-services/goodwills-veterans-fund/), which seeks to fill the gaps in veterans lives that tend not to be covered by other agencies.

PilotMan

02-25-2015, 07:49 AM

What do you guys think are the best charity/support groups to donate money to?

Air Warrior Courage Foundation (http://www.airwarriorcourage.com/)

Also known as The AWCF Wounded Warrior Emergency Support Fund;
this charity is associated with an organization called the Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Association (River Rats). I've been affiliated with this group mostly through my father, but also as a scholarship recipient. I won't say it's the best charity out there, but I'd support it and it does good things for families.

The Air Warrior Courage Foundation was formed by military aviators to “care for our own.” We work closely with the Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Association to do that. We focus on active duty, guard, reserve and retired military personnel and their families needing financial assistance for medical, educational, and other extraordinary expenses not covered by other military, veterans’, or charitable institutions.

Dutch

02-25-2015, 08:19 AM

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Always a good one with lots of way to support.

cthomer5000

02-27-2015, 09:26 PM

This article is horse shit, sorry.

Desnudo

02-28-2015, 10:48 AM

Air Warrior Courage Foundation (http://www.airwarriorcourage.com/)

Also known as The AWCF Wounded Warrior Emergency Support Fund;
this charity is associated with an organization called the Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Association (River Rats). I've been affiliated with this group mostly through my father, but also as a scholarship recipient. I won't say it's the best charity out there, but I'd support it and it does good things for families.

This is one I support

Freedom Service Dogs Home - Freedom Service Dogs (https://freedomservicedogs.org/)

My friend was a chef in the Navy on an aircraft carrier. I think he would have found it hilarious to be thanked for that. Not that what he did isn't important to the overall situation. I think when people thank those who served they are thinking those who served in combat. Should an accountant be thanked for doing it in the Marines? I don't know.

EagleFan

02-28-2015, 11:39 AM

Should an accountant be thanked for doing it in the Marines? I don't know.

It's still service to the country and that is what is being thanked.

EagleFan

02-28-2015, 11:50 AM

I have never been a person to say thank you but I am not big on going up and talking to strangers so it would be awkward for everyone if I did try.

I have thanked someone for their service after having struck up a conversation on a plane, by that point it felt less awkward.

There was a WW2 vet that I sat next to that I didn't thank. I wanted to but we had a decent conversation during the flight and it seemed like he wouldn't want to be thanked. He was there for Pearl Harbor and was returning for a reunion. He didn't go into details and I didn't ask because I could tell that it was still an uncomfortable subject all those years later. That was tough as I had to fight my natural curiosity about that subject; I am fascinated about anything from that time period.