Werewolf CLXVII - The Wheel of Time - Game Over

[Coffee Warlord]

So...

I'd imagine the mechanic is someone can force someone to vote against their will. Someone forced a Grover voter to vote for cheeki, which is why it tallies to 7/7.

Which sort of sounds like one of two things:

Blue Ajah - the Blue sisters are idealists, proponents of noble causes. Their skills lie in understanding the weave of destiny and the fulfillmment of prophecies.

Or...Compulsion. Which, force the uninformed, is basically mind control, which the Forsaken are plenty adept at (in the books).

[Coffee Warlord]

In my mind, the Blue is a bit of a stretch (that sounds more Duke-y, where the way this was presented seems more ... control-y), whereas Compulsion seems to fit better.

[The Jackal]

Seems more like it would be a double vote situation since there were still 8 people on Grover

[The Jackal]

Seems more like it would be a double vote situation since there were still 8 people on Grover

Nevermind, I'm tired

[Coffee Warlord]

Therefore ergo et cetera...this was, to me, more likely to be a wolf making a save, or a wolf going for a twofer.

[The Jackal]

So yeah, definitely feels like compulsion

[timmae]

Do the darkfriends have any additional powers in the books? The rule set is generic it seems. Are they basically vanilla wolves?

[timmae]

So yeah, definitely feels like compulsion

Basically forcing one of the 8 to the group of 6?

[The Jackal]

Do the darkfriends have any additional powers in the books? The rule set is generic it seems. Are they basically vanilla wolves?

Probably. They're usually like townspeople who just worship the shadow, but can be found from the smelliest peasant to very high placed people. I wouldn't be surprised if they have some small power, though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Run of the mill darkfriends would just be vanilla wolves, per book canon. The Black Ajah / and Forsaken would be the ones who can do things.

[The Jackal]

Basically forcing one of the 8 to the group of 6?

Right. Mind control and such.

[timmae]

I was thinking maybe a green ajah with a warder? Would something be possible there? Claims are counter to that though.

[Coffee Warlord]

That's an angle I didn't consider, but...theoretically, I guess.

Here's a better question. Who does a tie benefit more on day 2?

Village has to go basically on only day 1 votes again, if there is no lynch
Village has a chance to lose two villagers, if there was a double lynch.

Neither of those two scenarios are particularly helpful to the village.

[path12]

I don't see where it helps the shadow all that much either. Wolves rely on village attrition. Makes me feel like a wolf had to be in that mix.

[timmae]

Aiel are stated to be experts at survival... Could they affect others through compulsion? I want to hear from cheeki about that after dawn but what would the books say?

[The Jackal]

I don't see where it helps the shadow all that much either. Wolves rely on village attrition. Makes me feel like a wolf had to be in that mix.

If they knew it was two villagers, I could see pulling that trigger. Biggest danger to wolves in a no lynch is probably another seer scan, but...

[path12]

Or I guess I can't imagine not voting Grover again barring new info.

[The Jackal]

Aiel are stated to be experts at survival... Could they affect others through compulsion? I want to hear from cheeki about that after dawn but what would the books say?

Aiel have channelers, so it's possible, but if it's the Forsaken it doesn't really matter what faction they are, they'll have their own powerset regardless of faction history I'd think.

[Coffee Warlord]

Aiel are stated to be experts at survival... Could they affect others through compulsion? I want to hear from cheeki about that after dawn but what would the books say?

No. Channelers can mind control people, only, and it's very very forbidden to anyone outside of the bad guys, and in fact, it really was a lost skill that, for the most part, only the Forsaken knew.

Best an Aiel could do is hold a spear at someone and say, "You're doing this now." :)

[The Jackal]

No. Channelers can mind control people, only, and it's very very forbidden to anyone outside of the bad guys, and in fact, it really was a lost skill that, for the most part, only the Forsaken knew.

Best an Aiel could do is hold a spear at someone and say, "You're doing this now." :)

Well, even throwing out the question of would an Aiel have compulsion, you go to the root of the question which is that it doesn't matter because if we think it's compulsion it could be any person in any faction - one or the other wouldn't be relevant if we think it's the Forsaken.

But, it could very well be a non-compulsion mechanic with the same effect we're considering.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh yes, I could totally be very very wrong. But it fits better than anything I can think of.

[timmae]

Last thought for now... Channelers powers are short duration, right? Would this be a one time use of powers they may have?

[Coffee Warlord]

I can't imagine, for balance purposes, that would be more than a one shot.

[The Jackal]

Last thought for now... Channelers powers are short duration, right? Would this be a one time use of powers they may have?

They rely on physical energy/will and if you did something that required a lot of power, they'd need to recover. While one-time uses make sense in terms of WW, channeling is only a one-time use if you burn yourself out. Which tends to happen with channelers, so you could see someone having the option to take the risk of burning themselves out to have a greater chance of something working.

[The Jackal]

But yes, one-time use abilities make sense for game balance purposes.

[Autumn]

Deadline

[Autumn]

There is a silent resolve in the darkness tonight, as the nations have chosen to not repeat the mistakes of yesterday. They are as determined to find the Shadow as ever, but not willing to lose innocent people to do so. The Shadow however has no such mercy in their souls. For them the night is a stalking ground, and when you wake you see more evidence of that fact. Far afield from the White Tower you find one of the Aes Sedai sisters, one of the most powerful people in the world, struck down dead from behind. She wears a stole of red indicating that she was a member of the Red Ajah. She served the Light.

The Jackal was a sister of the Aes Sedai, Red Ajah. An expert at detecting the ability to channel in men, and capturing them, every night the Red sister had the ability to investigate a player to determine if they were a male who could channel. If yes, they would subsequently have the ability to shield that player and prevent them from using their abilities.

[Autumn]

Day 3 has begun.

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, for what it's worth, Grover doesn't have any items on him.

I had a one time power to take any items a person had. He had nothing.

[timmae]

I want to hear more from cheeki, Grover and raven tomorrow.

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:

[cheekimonk]

A tie is wholly dishonorable. I would rather have offered up myself...but I am not convinced of Grover's devotion to the light.. Given Jackal's role, our fight has taken another setback.

[Narcizo]

No lynches are teh suck. I'm going to hope that was a move by the shadow because it would be a godawful move for someone of the light to pull off. However if it was someone of the light they should confess to it so we know. Otherwise we have to assume that it was the work of the shadow. Which leaves it being
a) a move to save Grover or take out a good guy along with Grover, or
b) a move to take out two good guys or to delay voting for a day, effectively getting a free night kill.

Either way I can't imagine that Grover is going to survive the lynch tonight. What it does do though, assuming the agents of shadow are responsible, is clear cheekimonk. Which is why it's important someone claims the action if they did it.

[Narcizo]

22:15 #80 Fontisian votes Vaimes (1)
22:25 #82 timmae votes cheekimonk (1)
22:27 #83 Vaimes votes timmae (1)
20:28 #84 fontisian unvotes Vaimes (0)
20:28 #84 fontisian votes timmae (2)
08:39 #94 Coffee votes Jackal (1)
09:51 #96 Britrock votes Eagle (1)
09:58 #97 Jackal votes Grover (1)

12:02 #106 Zinto votes Grover (2)
12:29 #107 cheekimonk votes Eagle (2)
12:40 #109 Path votes Britrock (1)
12:52 #110 Grover votes Vaimes (1)
13:36 #112 MartinD votes Jackal (2)
14:09 #113 Narcizo votes Eagle (3)
14:37 #114 Eagle votes cheeki (1)

18:00 #135 Chief votes timmae (3)
18:04 #136 cheeki unvotes Eagle (2)
18:04 #136 cheeki votes font (1)
18:17 #138 timmae unvotes cheeki (0)
18:17 #138 timmae votes Glengoyne (1)
18:53 #141 Eagle unvotes cheeki (0)
18:53 #141 Eagle votes Grover (3)
19:01 #143 Path unvotes Britrock (0)
19:01 #143 Path votes Raven (1)
19:18 #147 Path unvotes Raven (0)
19:18 #147 Path votes Grover (4)

19:21 #148 Jackal unvotes Grover (3)
19:21 #148 Jackal votes Eagle (3)
19:26 #150 timmae unvotes glengoyne (0)
19:26 #150 timmae votes Raven (1)
19:27 #151 Martin unvotes Jackal (1)
19:27 #151 Martin votes timmae (4)
19:48 #153 timmae unvotes Raven (0)
19:48 #153 timmae votes Eagle (4)
20:06 #155 cheeki unvotes font (0)
20:06 #155 cheeki votes Grover (4)

20:23 #157 Eagle unvotes Grover (3)
20:23 #157 Eagle votes Jackal (2)
20:37 #160 Zinto unvotes Grover (2)
20:37 #160 Zinto votes Jackal (3)
20:39 #163 cheeki unvotes Grover (1)
20:39 #163 cheeki votes Eagle (5)
20:47 #170 Coffee unvotes Jackal (2)
20:47 #170 Coffee votes Grover (2)
20:52 #182 fonti unvotes timmae (3)
20:52 #182 fonti votes Jackal (3)
20:57 #190 Eagle unvotes Jackal (2)
20:57 #190 Eagle votes timmae (4)


Day 1 Vote

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk (163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151), EagleFan (190)
The Jackal [2] - Zinto (160), fontisian (182)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), Coffee Warlord (170)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

No Vote: Glengoyne, Raven

[Narcizo]

22:13 #212 Vaimes votes timmae (1)
23:12 #215 Britrock votes Grover (1)
07:11 #226 Narcizo votes Britrock (1)
08:48 #232 Grover votes Britrock (2)
09:27 #233 Jackal votes Zinto (1)
10:11 #242 Cheeki votes Jackal (1)
10:29 #248 Britrock unvotes Grover (0)
10:29 #248 Britrock votes Cheeki (1)

11:01 #258 Cheeki unvotes Jackal (0)
11:01 #258 Cheeki votes Grover (1)
11:01 #259 MartinD votes Grover (2)
11:51 #270 Chief votes Jackal (2)
12:24 #279 Jackal unvotes Zinto (0)
12:24 #279 Jackal votes timmae (2)
13:56 #303 Grover unvotes Britrock (1)
14:31 #308 Path votes Jackal (3)
14:43 #310 timmae votes Grover (3)
14:59 #313 Glengoyne votes Jackal (4)

15:39 #322 Zinto votes Brit (2)
15:43 #324 Chief unvotes Jackal (3)
15:51 #332 Path unvotes Jackal (2)
15:56 #340 Narcizo unvotes Brit (1)
15:56 #340 Narcizo votes Cheeki (2)
16:08 #350 Jackal unvotes timmae (1)
16:08 #350 Jackal votes Cheeki (3)
16:14 #353 Path votes Vaimes (1)
16:25 #358 Zinto unvotes Brit (0)
17:01 #366 Coffee votes MartinD (1)
17:25 #371 Chief votes Zinto (1)
17:39 #374 Glengoyne unvotes Jackal (0)
17:39 #374 Glengoyne votes MartinD (2)

18:21 #387 Raven votes Grover (4)
18:21 #388 Vaimes unvotes timmae (0)
18:21 #388 Vaimes votes Grover (5)
18:43 #396 Zinto votes cheeki (4)
19:00 #402 Chief unvotes Zinto (0)
19:00 #402 Chief votes Cheeki (5)
19:18 #408 Glengoyne unvotes MartinD (1)
19:18 #408 Glengoyne votes Grover (6)

19:24 #417 Jackal unvotes Cheeki (4)
19:24 #417 Jackal votes Grover (7)
19:51 #430 Jackal unvotes Grover (6)
19:51 #430 Jackal votes Zinto (1)
20:29 #444 Jackal unvotes Zinto (0)
20:30 #444 Jackal votes Cheeki (5)
20:36 #453 Coffee unvotes Martin (0)
20:36 #453 Coffee votes Grover (7)
20:40 #457 Grover votes Cheeki (6)
20:45 #459 Path unvotes Vaimes (0)
20:45 #459 Path votes Grover (8)

Day 2 Vote (Final)

Grover [7] - cheekimonk (258), MartinD (259), timmae (310), Raven (387), Vaimes (388), Glengoyne (408), Coffee Warlord (453), path12 (459)
cheekimonk [7] - britrock88 (248), Narcizo (340), Zinto (396), Chief Rum (402), The Jackal (445), Grover (457)

[Narcizo]

Well on the plus side I've been uncommonly good at getting a meaningful vote in both days. On the down side it looks very likely that they've both been on villagers.

I'm in two minds about Grover. On the one hand his story seems a bit out there, needing the horn to become the dragon. On the other hand it does seem a bit elaborate to be something the shadow would come up with. Wouldn't he make a more straightforward claim? Like claiming to be the dragon, for example, rather than someone who might become the dragon under the right circumstances.

However his reaction that we've lost if we lynch him just seems unrealistic. If he's relying on getting the horn to become the dragon then he has to know that it's not fantastically likely that that's going to happen. It seems he would have to rely on someone handing the item to him and why would that happen? I'm pretty sure that he can't take an item like Coffee tried. So I can't see how he can perceive his own role as that important.

Is there any canon reason to believe that someone who could become a dragon wouldn't also be working for the shadow? Maybe he's telling the truth and he's still shadow.

Unfortunately I will have to decide fairly soon and then leave you until next week as I pointed out at the start. Which kind of sucks.

[Glengoyne]

Doh! I was hoping for a BodyGuard play that would preserve Jackal at least one night. I hoped/figured that the Red sister would be able to identify a male channeler. I think this confirms that there are male channelers on the Shadow's side, and the loss of another seer-like role is going to make this tough.

On the tie, I'm not really sure how to read that. Someone switched a vote behind the scenes? Somebody bought Grover's story enough to spare him? I think tomorrow is going to be interesting.

[Narcizo]

Vote Grover

I don't buy it. I don't think there's any chance someone is going to/should hand the horn to him so I don't see how his role is much more important than a vanilla. Unfortunately for me my actions yesterday look pretty suspect if he turns out to be shadow but what can you do?

I suspect that today is going to be a wash. Ho hum. If Grover is good then we are in a lot of trouble but not for the reasons he was positing yesterday. More because of the "being on day four with very little in the way of useful voting analysis" reasons. Which could be what the shadow was hoping for with their vote fixing yesterday.

[Glengoyne]

...

Is there any canon reason to believe that someone who could become a dragon wouldn't also be working for the shadow?...

In the books there are false dragons. These were male channelers that weren't actually the dragon. I guess it is entirely possible that these men believed they were the Dragon, but I don't think there is anything that would hint that they are evil or good.

I'm not seeing the tie between the horn of valere and the Dragon. In the books the horn didn't have that significance for the Dragon, whereas the claiming of Callandor pretty much proclaimed that the Dragon was real. So that part has me a bit skeptical of Grover's claim.

[cheekimonk]

Aiel are stated to be experts at survival... Could they affect others through compulsion? I want to hear from cheeki about that after dawn but what would the books say?

True Aiel do not act in such ways. We are experts at survival, but through other means. When the moment comes, we will live or die honorably.

[Zinto]

I am going to be in and out today but I will post as much as I can.

I really really really don't buy the Grover reveal. It doesn't make sense to me in terms of book lore. The use of the horn in book lore and the ruleset seemed to me like we would be able to summon our dead to help us out in some way. Which would make sense because they are not able to talk about the game outside of it even after dying.

[Zinto]

I will even

Vote Grover

[Grover]

Either way I can't imagine that Grover is going to survive the lynch tonight. What it does do though, assuming the agents of shadow are responsible, is clear cheekimonk. Which is why it's important someone claims the action if they did it.

I did it. I am a male and used my power to channel on another voter. I will not say who, and I do not know what my power will be before I use it. After using it I was given the opportunity that whoever I voted for, the person I had targeted would also count as my vote, even if they voted for someone else.

I saved myself because of my role. Yes, losing Jackal is hard, especially with no lynch.

Did I make a huge miscalculation on the game for the Light's chances of winning? Entirely possible, but it was a chance I had to take.

I am likely dead to rights after today. I have nothing to hide now.

[Zinto]

Like Narcizo I would like to know if a villager did something but if no one comes forward I don't see how we cannot lynch Grover today.

[Grover]

vote Zinto

Jackal had misgivings about Zinto's possible role. I think there is something to that.

[Zinto]

And now I am even more comfortable with my vote after what Grover revealed. I still do not buy it. In more general terms I would like to see the UTR players contribute some more today.

[Grover]

My honesty shall be my doom.

[Zinto]

vote Zinto

Jackal had misgivings about Zinto's possible role. I think there is something to that.


I am pretty sure if Jackal had any information on me being bad he would have came out and said it. He thought he was not going to make it through the night and said so multiple times. Jackal knows what he is doing and wouldn't have take that information to the grave.

[Zinto]

Grover why did you not reveal earlier? You were asked multiple times in thread to reveal and yet chose to wait. And with what happened to Eagle the day before you must have known the risk involved with a late reveal.

[cheekimonk]

I was actually going to take my vote off Grover if space cleared and I was around because I said I would (I don't like sitting on one person that long). Space cleared (it was 7-4 at one point) but I was already out of pocket. However, there was a last-second intervention that clearly benefited Grover. I don't see any other way for that to be interpreted because it sure as hell didn't benefit me. If it was just meant to sow dissent among the village it was an expensive sacrifice for the dark as they would have to prefer losing a villager to a lynch. All that said...

vote Grover

[Zinto]

Holy crap. Thank you to whoever somehow saved my ass.


Also, why come out saying this? Then reveal now that you in fact were the person who saved you.

[cheekimonk]

I'm also still learning the game, but there was font's lesson to me in my 1st game (backed up by this thread at BGG: WW strategies: see "Agnespoodle Method of Villager Identification (AMVI)" (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/65796/glossary-werewolf-strategy-must-read-werewolf-play)) that villagers rage while wolves reason. Grover is certainly all reason & logic.

[cheekimonk]

Holy crap. Thank you to whoever somehow saved my ass.

Also, it's "whomever"...bad grammar is such a sign of darkness.

/sarcasm

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [3] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550)
Zinto [1] - Grover (545)

[Grover]

Grover why did you not reveal earlier? You were asked multiple times in thread to reveal and yet chose to wait. And with what happened to Eagle the day before you must have known the risk involved with a late reveal.

To be fair? I didn't expect to get that late vote moved off Martin. If that hadn't happened, cheek would have been lynched and I would have survived with the mechanic.

I thanked "whomever" because I wasn't sure I'd have to reveal that I had the double vote working.

Villagers may rage and Wolves my reason, but I know that I win the game with the light. Nothing I can say is going to change anyone's minds at this point.

If I'm going to be lynched, the wolves will win.

At this point, why bother fighting it any further?

[Grover]

You ask me why I didn't reveal earlier, but when I do reveal it is met with nothing but raised eyebrows.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't, really.

[Grover]

All I'm going to say is this:

You can lynch me tonight and lose another villager and important role.

Or you can try and find someone who is an actual wolf and try and start dwindling their numbers.

If all of you truly believe that my 'reason' as opposed to 'rage' makes me a wolf, c'est la vie.

[Coffee Warlord]

To be fair? I didn't expect to get that late vote moved off Martin. If that hadn't happened, cheek would have been lynched and I would have survived with the mechanic.

If I'm going to be lynched, the wolves will win.

It wasn't a terribly late vote, and I sure as hell wasn't going to leave my vote on a pointless target. You had ample time.

And you're still claiming, after you used your power, that you're totally indispensable? C'mon.

[Grover]

It wasn't a terribly late vote, and I sure as hell wasn't going to leave my vote on a pointless target. You had ample time.

And you're still claiming, after you used your power, that you're totally indispensable? C'mon.

I have the ability to use my power each night, with a random effect.

In fact I used it on you last night.

[Zinto]

Here is my problem with the timeline today. Last night you claimed that someone saved you. Then Narcizo and I come out and say that unless a villager comes out and says they used a power to save you we should probably lynch you. Then you change it up to say you used a power to save yourself.

It just seems like you are being very reactive to what others are saying as abilities from your role come out.

[Grover]

So lynch me and be wrong.

[Grover]

I revealed my role last night late on in hopes of saving myself.

Nobody bought it.

I make a post about being saved, because I didn't necessarily want to deflect that onto myself.

I come clean with the double vote when it's asked.

Nobody bought it.

Why don't I just help you all along?

unvote zinto
vote grover

[Grover]

And to show you my conviction that I am indeed for the light and that you are wrong and falling prey to the wolves?

vote nightfall

[Zinto]

Why Grover? Only three or four people have checked in and shared their thoughts. And only Coffee and I have really interacted with you.

[Grover]

If the two of you, plus Narc aren't convinced. I don't see myself convincing enough of the rest of the group. You either lynch me today or I get killed off by the wolves tonight.

I see where this is headed.

[timmae]

Wow... that is a very weird play. Nightfall doesn't do us any good until we are all on the same page. I don't like this move at all. Also voting for ones self is always a weird move, right?

Thoughts reading through the last few pages... coffee and brit gain plusses or their thoughts/actions leading up to lynch time yesterday. I have to reread their posts again to get a full read on them but my skimming through provided additional insight to believe they are firmly with good.

Grover's posts leading up to lynch, his claim and then his subsequent explanation, including the nightfall vote is very off. This is not like grover as he is usually reserved and has a straightforward playful tone (his last 2 games here). I was gaining some pings early on which lead to vote him yesterday. His odd behavior is either evil or a disgruntled good role. I am still leaning evil as there is at least 1 outright lie (his post thanking who(m)ever saved him).

I like how raven provided additional insight once he arrived and read through in order to catch up yesterday. I hope to see more thoughts from raven as I think he provided some good talking points and if Grover is evil then raven leans good.

I want to hear more from martin and vaimes today. There was some reads on martin yesterday but based on meta reasons there were no votes. I don't think we should lose sight of this and lose another day of information.

If we have one evil then we still need to look at how we vote down the road. With grover's nightfall it seems like we will not be getting more information from him which is a shame.

[Coffee Warlord]

IMO, there's really zero option at this point other than to off Grover. If he's everything he claims he is, well, shit happens. But this has spiraled to the point where we have know one way or another.

That said, in the interest of not wasting a whole day, it's prolly best to discuss potential atlernatives for tomorrow and beyond.

[timmae]

got pulled away on emails... meant to vote.

vote grover

[Grover]

Disgruntled? Maybe a little.

I was accused of being evil because a bunch of people jumped off my vote on Day 0. I was accused of being evil because I never moved a vote when I had told everyone I wasn't around to vote.

Day 2 votes starting piling up on me for what seemed like absolutely no reason.

Now I've come out and told the complete truth with one small white lie about whoMever saved me. I did that to protect myself and the one time power I had. I didn't want to necessarily come out and say I saved myself right off the bat.

Once again, I say it and I'm being reactive to the posts and apparently that's wolfish.

Here's what I know, what I can tell you.

I am searching for the Horn of Valere. Either for my possession or for it to end in the hands of the Light.

Secondly, I have the potential to become the Dragon Reborn. This is separate from the horn and I apologize for the confusion last night. I'm not sure if it means that I need to die and be resurrected for this to happen, but I know that I win the game if the Light wins the game, but only if I stay alive.

As a channeler, I can use my powers once a night on someone here with random effects.

This is who I am.

As far as timmae commenting on my play-style. I've only participated in three games to this point. I wouldn't put my style into concrete terms. As someone who does a lot of writing I am accustomed to fitting into different roles and characters and can change my mindset and style as needed.

[Grover]

And as far as playing this game well, I'm pretty sure I may have peaked in the Mars game.

[path12]

Self votes will ALWAYS get me to agree. It's a freakin' game man.

VOTE GROVER

[Grover]

Self votes will ALWAYS get me to agree. It's a freakin' game man.

VOTE GROVER

And I'm not lashing out at this being just a game.

I've come completely cleaned, as asked and no one believes me.

What would you do in this situation?

[cheekimonk]

As a channeler, I can use my powers once a night on someone here with random effects.



Wait, you've said you're Illian but you can also channel AND you could be the Dragon Reborn? I'm fairly certain that makes you a male channeler. That means you are either the Dragon Reborn, a false Dragon, or Forsaken.

Now, of the Forsaken we know "...they were wielders of the Power in the days of Legend, capable of things that are no longer even imagined. They were sealed away when the Dark One was, but not so tightly, and before the Dark One escapes, they will. It is possible one walks the world right now, his abilities so far beyond those of the Aes Sedai that they could stand in front of him and not recognize him."

He's not Aes Sedai because his power would not have "random effects" as he has claimed. Aes Sedai belong to an Ajah which strictly defines their power. He also claims that it was he who switched the vote. That's a power that I can't see any role having outside the Aes Sedai and I don't even see an Ajah that could accomplish such a thing.

Combining the "random effects on anyone" with the ability to swap the vote, these sound like abilities "that are no longer even imagined...". I think Grover is Forsaken.

[MartinD]

Looking at the vote counts from yesterday in a bit more detail:

Posted at 1.47AM (or 8.47PM Eastern)
Day 2 Vote

Grover [8] - cheekimonk (258), MartinD (259), timmae (310), Raven (387), Vaimes (388), Glengoyne (408), Coffee Warlord (453), path12 (459)
cheekimonk [6] - britrock88 (248), Narcizo (340), Zinto (396), Chief Rum (402), The Jackal (445), Grover (457)

Posted at 2.01AM (or 9.01PM Eastern)
Day 2 Vote (Final)


Grover [7] - cheekimonk (258), MartinD (259), timmae (310), Raven (387), Vaimes (388), Glengoyne (408), Coffee Warlord (453), path12 (459)
cheekimonk [7] - britrock88 (248), Narcizo (340), Zinto (396), Chief Rum (402), The Jackal (445), Grover (457)

There were no votes/unvotes in the 14 minutes in between.

The list of voters for Grover and cheekimonk are the same in both posts - it's just the totals that are different. As there are 8 people on Grover and 6 on cheekimonk, something unusual is going on here. It doesn't appear to be a multi-counting vote, as the 'revised' count is 7-7 - that suggests that something has caused a vote for Grover to be counted as a vote for cheekimonk.

A few possibilities come to mind:
- the Dark have influenced the vote count in some way (Compulsion is the obvious one (as per how it is described/used in the books - forcing someone to do something against their will, then making them forget what they did), but the Forsaken are capable of many unexpected things)
- Grover has suggested that he is (potentially) the Dragon (post 460) - in the books, the Dragon is ta'veren (as are Perrin and Mat, to a lesser extent), meaning that the Pattern shifts around him (so unlikely/unexpected things happen much more frequently, both good and bad - this isn't something that the ta'veren can control, though). It is possible that this has caused the adjustment to the vote counts, and may be an automatic event rather than a power/item that needs to be activated/used.
- Someone on the side of the Light has influenced the vote count

(It is possible that Grover is the cause of the change to the vote count, but I don't think that this directly leads to being able to place Grover on the side of Dark or Light.)


Taking this line of thinking on to the next stage...

Why would the Dark save Grover? The change in the vote count is very suspicious, so was always likely to end up with Grover being the lead candidate for lynch the following day (as we've already seen). What do the Dark gain from keeping Grover around for one more day? Less info for the village (the 'no lynch' from Day 2 means that we're really no further forward than we were yesterday), one extra night kill - yes, there is some value there. How much value might depend on how the vote count was changed - if it's a one-shot deal, it seems to me that holding back might be more effective (would it not be better to keep that power for the end-game, if possible?), but it might not be, which is something to bear in mind for future votes...)

If Grover is the one with the power to change the vote count, though, it is a different story - it's pretty likely that you can't use your powers after you've been lynched, so why not use that power while you can (although there's an explicit statement in the rules (post 2 - first bullet point under 'Important Additions') that a person may be able to influence the game after they have died - the first thing that comes to mind here is that in the books, several of the Forsaken are reincarnated after being killed, Osan'gar and Aran'gar for example).

Grover having the power to alter the vote count doesn't necessarily lead to being on one side or other, though - it is a power that I could see being given to either Light or Dark.

I think that the third possibility (that a non-Grover person on the side of the Light has saved Grover) is unlikely - am mentioning this more to be sure that I've covered all the bases rather than thinking that it's the likely reason for the 'unusual' vote count.


While I think that it's likely that Grover is on the side of the Dark, the only way that we can be certain (one way or the other) is a lynch, given that we no longer have a seer.

[Grover]

Looking at the vote counts from yesterday in a bit more detail:

Posted at 1.47AM (or 8.47PM Eastern)


Posted at 2.01AM (or 9.01PM Eastern)


There were no votes/unvotes in the 14 minutes in between.

The list of voters for Grover and cheekimonk are the same in both posts - it's just the totals that are different. As there are 8 people on Grover and 6 on cheekimonk, something unusual is going on here. It doesn't appear to be a multi-counting vote, as the 'revised' count is 7-7 - that suggests that something has caused a vote for Grover to be counted as a vote for cheekimonk.

A few possibilities come to mind:
- the Dark have influenced the vote count in some way (Compulsion is the obvious one (as per how it is described/used in the books - forcing someone to do something against their will, then making them forget what they did), but the Forsaken are capable of many unexpected things)
- Grover has suggested that he is (potentially) the Dragon (post 460) - in the books, the Dragon is ta'veren (as are Perrin and Mat, to a lesser extent), meaning that the Pattern shifts around him (so unlikely/unexpected things happen much more frequently, both good and bad - this isn't something that the ta'veren can control, though). It is possible that this has caused the adjustment to the vote counts, and may be an automatic event rather than a power/item that needs to be activated/used.
- Someone on the side of the Light has influenced the vote count

(It is possible that Grover is the cause of the change to the vote count, but I don't think that this directly leads to being able to place Grover on the side of Dark or Light.)


Taking this line of thinking on to the next stage...

Why would the Dark save Grover? The change in the vote count is very suspicious, so was always likely to end up with Grover being the lead candidate for lynch the following day (as we've already seen). What do the Dark gain from keeping Grover around for one more day? Less info for the village (the 'no lynch' from Day 2 means that we're really no further forward than we were yesterday), one extra night kill - yes, there is some value there. How much value might depend on how the vote count was changed - if it's a one-shot deal, it seems to me that holding back might be more effective (would it not be better to keep that power for the end-game, if possible?), but it might not be, which is something to bear in mind for future votes...)

If Grover is the one with the power to change the vote count, though, it is a different story - it's pretty likely that you can't use your powers after you've been lynched, so why not use that power while you can (although there's an explicit statement in the rules (post 2 - first bullet point under 'Important Additions') that a person may be able to influence the game after they have died - the first thing that comes to mind here is that in the books, several of the Forsaken are reincarnated after being killed, Osan'gar and Aran'gar for example).

Grover having the power to alter the vote count doesn't necessarily lead to being on one side or other, though - it is a power that I could see being given to either Light or Dark.

I think that the third possibility (that a non-Grover person on the side of the Light has saved Grover) is unlikely - am mentioning this more to be sure that I've covered all the bases rather than thinking that it's the likely reason for the 'unusual' vote count.


While I think that it's likely that Grover is on the side of the Dark, the only way that we can be certain (one way or the other) is a lynch, given that we no longer have a seer.

As I have stated further up, as a male Channeler I have the ability to use my powers once a day one a person of my choosing. The result is unknown to me before I use it. I could be hoping for something to happen, but I don't have a say in it.

After using my powers on someone for Night Zero, I was given the ability have my vote count twice. My vote, plus the person I used the power on, regardless of who they voted for.

I voted for cheeki. Someone who voted for me had their vote shifted to cheeki even though it doesn't show that way on the final count.

I win if the light wins. I want the Horn of Valere in the light's hands.

If you're all going to vote to lynch me, just vote nightfall so we can get this over with and you can all move forward and fall to the wolves.

Losing three major roles in as many nights... is that going to be a record here?

[Vaimes]

If I'm going to be lynched, the wolves will win.

At this point, why bother fighting it any further?

Man, you're like a broken record.

Iunvote zinto
vote grover

Whom is this supposed to help if you are telling the truth?

Town is capable of winning, even without super fancy roles, so. If the only reason you can provide for not lynching you is 'I have the best role ever,' then I'm not really buying that.

[Grover]

Then don't. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to be lynched.

There's nothing else I can say to disprove anybody at this point.

[Chief Rum]

Grover, bad move with the self vote, man, and especially following it up with a nightfall. I understand getting frustrated--we have all been there--but don't do that. Big no no.

[Grover]

Welp, as a new player. I did not know. *Shrug*

[path12]

And I'm not lashing out at this being just a game.

I've come completely cleaned, as asked and no one believes me.

What would you do in this situation?

Not vote for myself.

Look, all of us have a small view of the elephant -- the only ones who know who is who are the wolves. The wolves are lying. All game. So we are trying to make the best decisions we can with imperfect information.

This means that yeah, most of the time we are going to lynch good guys early despite our best efforts. And yeah, it sucks when you are good and people don't believe you.

But this IS THE GAME. And what you don't do is get pouty and vote for yourself. Or, IMO, use your power to save yourself when you are on the block.

You say the horn will convert you to the dragon. Great! The rules make it sound like the crystal sword is what the dragon needs, and that everyone in the Illian faction is looking for the horn for some other reason. So there is a natural discrepancy there. I don't blame anyone for doubting that because, again, wolves lie. You very well may not be lying, in which case it sucks that there is a difference between how the equipment is written and how it actually works, but my inclination is always going to be to go back to the ruleset.

I mean, you play this game awhile and there are going to be times it gets under your skin. But none of this is personal, we're just trying to get the bad guys, y'know?

[Chief Rum]

So the "random" effect of your power just happened to be exactly what saved you? Am I understanding right, Grover?

Also, I understand wanting to deflect attention from your powers, but you didn't have a reason to post that about "whoever saved you". It wasn't like someone asked you directly how it happened. You just offered that up, without prompting.

[Grover]

Stop acting like I am taking this personally.

I'm not.

I am just resigned to the fact that this game is over for me.

I'm sorry that I've played this game now three times and I'm making mistakes that veterans wouldn't make. Seriously. I'm sorry.

I misspoke last night about what the Horn would do, but I clarified it earlier this morning. I laid out everything I know about myself and laid it bare.

[Grover]

So the "random" effect of your power just happened to be exactly what saved you? Am I understanding right, Grover?

Also, I understand wanting to deflect attention from your powers, but you didn't have a reason to post that about "whoever saved you". It wasn't like someone asked you directly how it happened. You just offered that up, without prompting.

Well, it only saved me because of the circumstances, no?

I could have swung a vote influentially any way it would have worked, but in this situation it saved me.

The character I used my power on last night, cannot be lynched by the wolves tonight. I put a protective net around them. I will not say who they are, in hopes that the wolves try and lynch that person.

[Grover]

Here's a question, even though it probably won't matter.

Even though I've voted nightfall, and it has to be unanimous for it to go through. Can I still change my lynch vote?

I likely will not, but it's good to know all of the ins and outs.

[Chief Rum]

Well, it only saved me because of the circumstances, no?

I could have swung a vote influentially any way it would have worked, but in this situation it saved me.

The character I used my power on last night, cannot be lynched by the wolves tonight. I put a protective net around them. I will not say who they are, in hopes that the wolves try and lynch that person.

But you see that doesn't sound random. I mean, of all the powers that could have come up... you could have had an ability to kill for a night. Or to scan someone. Or to guard someone. There are a million abilities you could have had which would have been great--but have been unable to save you from a lynch.

And you randomly got one that saved you. That's what I am questioning here. Just how "random" is this? Doesn't sound random at all.

[Vaimes]

Hm.

The Doc protect gives me pause, but. Secretly affecting the vote doesn't sound like a town power.

[Vaimes]

But you see that doesn't sound random. I mean, of all the powers that could have come up... you could have had an ability to kill for a night. Or to scan someone. Or to guard someone. There are a million abilities you could have had which would have been great--but have been unable to save you from a lynch.

And you randomly got one that saved you. That's what I am questioning here. Just how "random" is this? Doesn't sound random at all.

Also this.

[Grover]

But you see that doesn't sound random. I mean, of all the powers that could have come up... you could have had an ability to kill for a night. Or to scan someone. Or to guard someone. There are a million abilities you could have had which would have been great--but have been unable to save you from a lynch.

And you randomly got one that saved you. That's what I am questioning here. Just how "random" is this? Doesn't sound random at all.

The power was given to me after I decided to use my Channeling.

The news was given to me well before the votes for the day started coming in against cheek and I.

Yes, I know it sounds entirely coincidental and too good to be true, but I do promise this is how it happened.

[Chief Rum]

Here's a question, even though it probably won't matter.

Even though I've voted nightfall, and it has to be unanimous for it to go through. Can I still change my lynch vote?

I likely will not, but it's good to know all of the ins and outs.

That's up to the mods. Generally, a nightfall for you personally only locks in your vote. The nightfall unanimous thing is only to end the night early, and also only if the mods allow it.

I would actually hope that Autumn saves you from yourself and invalidates your nightfall.

[Grover]

and yes, I realize now it might have been better to take the fall then to protect myself and let no one get lynched.

But there was every possibility of cheek and I both getting lynched with the tie vote. Whatever roll of the dice or flip of the coin Autumn/Shoveler performed is what saved me in addition to my vote counting twice.

[Grover]

I've had a hard time getting reads on anybody who could be a wolf. There are a lot of UTR players this time, and it's hard to gleen anything from 2-3 posts a day.

[Zinto]

Here's a question, even though it probably won't matter.

Even though I've voted nightfall, and it has to be unanimous for it to go through. Can I still change my lynch vote?

I likely will not, but it's good to know all of the ins and outs.


Nope it is in the rules: "Nightfall votes will be accepted but will have to be unanimous, and once entered your vote may not be changed."

[Zinto]

I've had a hard time getting reads on anybody who could be a wolf. There are a lot of UTR players this time, and it's hard to gleen anything from 2-3 posts a day.


I agree. It doesn't help that we have almost no information.

[path12]

I've had a hard time getting reads on anybody who could be a wolf. There are a lot of UTR players this time, and it's hard to gleen anything from 2-3 posts a day.

Absolutely agree with you here.

[Grover]

Nope it is in the rules: "Nightfall votes will be accepted but will have to be unanimous, and once entered your vote may not be changed."

Well, that's the last time I'll make this mistake again. Heh.

[path12]

Nope it is in the rules: "Nightfall votes will be accepted but will have to be unanimous, and once entered your vote may not be changed."

MODS in this instance might you make an exception here?

[Chief Rum]

I agree. It doesn't help that we have almost no information.

No public information. I get the sense there is a lot of behind the scenes information in this one.

I, for instance, know some things behind the scenes, related to my faction and role. But they are better left secret now or have been irrelevant to the discuss).

(FWIW, it's really just info; I don't have any actions I can take)

[Vaimes]

Uh.

Thank you for crumbing for no reason?

[Vaimes]

Or rather softclaiming.

[Grover]

Here's my thing. I understand if you do not believe me and want to lynch me to find out one way or the other.

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

[Vaimes]

Here's my thing. I understand if you do not believe me and want to lynch me to find out one way or the other.

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

This is true.

Plus he sort of locked in a vote on himself (if I'm understanding the mechanic correctly) when he's being wagoned, which. Sounds more like a frustrated town derp than scum wine.

[Zinto]

Here's my thing. I understand if you do not believe me and want to lynch me to find out one way or the other.

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?


I have a problem with this course of action. I am fairly confident you are a wolf. Not lynching you today pushes this all back another day when/if you survive the night. It doesn't make sense to do so. Unless someone scanned a wolf or has some potentially damning evidence one way or another I am not going to move off of you today.

[Grover]

I believe my fellow villagers need to take a long hard look at Zinto after he is gone.

[Grover]

after I am gone, rather.

[Vaimes]

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?

[Grover]

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?

Heh. Might I remind everyone. The only reason my power was convenient was because I was up to be lynch.

I only dodged the lynch because the vote was tied and the mechanic to decide double or no lynch, came up in cheek and my favor.

[Chief Rum]

Or rather softclaiming.

Are you talking about my post? I don't consider that too revelatory. I am pretty sure everyone here has pretty detailed PMs with a lot more info than they have put out here.

[Vaimes]

Are you talking about my post? I don't consider that too revelatory. I am pretty sure everyone here has pretty detailed PMs with a lot more info than they have put out here.

Well, sure, but it'd be nice to let the Vanillas eat the kills instead of unnecessarily dropping rolehints.

[Chief Rum]

Well, sure, but it'd be nice to let the Vanillas eat the kills instead of unnecessarily dropping rolehints.

There are no vanillas.

[Vaimes]

That's awkward.

[Vaimes]

Anyway.

Vote Coffee Warlord

[path12]

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

I'd disagree that you are a huge target for a night kill. Assuming you are good why would the wolves get rid of you? You'd be taking the heat off of them by drawing votes.

But yeah, I don't want to waste an entire day with one lynch target and no discussion, that doesn't do us any good either. So who pings you and why?

[Chief Rum]

That's awkward.

Not really. I can pretty much guarantee with my experience from the past in games of these sort, there isn't a single person in this game who is truly a vanilla. Everyone has detailed role and faction information. Some have actions they can take. Some just have information or inherent abilities that aren't powers but are just part of who they are.

There is no "I'm just a peasant working my land" normal guy in this game.

[Zinto]

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?


Everything he has claimed and done since the lynch results have seemed very reactive to what is happening in thread instead of being resolute in his abilities.

Claim to not know who saved you until people are pointing out that a villager will have to come forward to save you here. Then claim you in fact saved yourself.

Claim you need the horn to become the dragon reborn. Change your story as people say that doesn't really make sense.

Be accused of acting too factual and not raging enough. So you vote for yourself and nightfall it.

Even last night people were on asking for a role reveal after what happened to EF. And he didn't do so until the last few minutes.

I get that one or two of these things might be a coincidence but there is a lot of smoke here for me not to think there is also a fire.

[Coffee Warlord]

I'd disagree that you are a huge target for a night kill. Assuming you are good why would the wolves get rid of you? You'd be taking the heat off of them by drawing votes.

But yeah, I don't want to waste an entire day with one lynch target and no discussion, that doesn't do us any good either. So who pings you and why?

I was gonna say, if I'm a wolf, I'm going to happily sit back and let Grover hang himself. The longer you stay alive at this point, the more time we waste discussing you.

[Chief Rum]

Why is Grover a target for the wolves? I don't consider that self-evident.

He can channel, and he has a random power each night. Thus far, he hasn't really hurt the wolves and he has been a lightning bolt for discussion. If I were a wolf, I would probably want to keep him around, and let him hang himself. Until he displays the ability to hurt the Shadow, as a hypothetical wolf, he doesn't really matter. Might as well go after the others, as they might actually be bale to hurt the Shadow.

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [5] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571)
Coffee Warlord [1] - Vaimes (611)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

[Chief Rum]

I was gonna say, if I'm a wolf, I'm going to happily sit back and let Grover hang himself. The longer you stay alive at this point, the more time we waste discussing you.

Lol... we were more or less saying the same thing at the same time.

[Grover]

I get that one or two of these things might be a coincidence but there is a lot of smoke here for me not to think there is also a fire.

I hinted at the dragon in two posts before the actual reveal.

I guess less subtlety in the future.

[Vaimes]

Oh wait, Coffee Warlord tried to steal from Grover.

Unvote
Vote timmae

[Coffee Warlord]

Lol... we were more or less saying the same thing at the same time.

I though I told you in PM's I was gonna make that post! Jeez, we need to work better on our wolf communication.

....wait, fuck! I mean, Yay Village!

[Chief Rum]

Grover, so your Day Two power was to take over someone's vote and make it the same as yours? And selecting that person also protects them from a night kill tonight?

What power did you get for Night One? And what power do you get for tonight?

Am I understanding your claimed power correctly?

[Chief Rum]

I though I told you in PM's I was gonna make that post! Jeez, we need to work better on our wolf communication.

....wait, fuck! I mean, Yay Village!

Haha damnit! That's what I get for trusting a Stark.

[Grover]

Grover, so your Day Two power was to take over someone's vote and make it the same as yours? And selecting that person also protects them from a night kill tonight?

What power did you get for Night One? And what power do you get for tonight?

Am I understanding your claimed power correctly?

Okay, so the first night. I randomly used my power on a person. The result to me was that their vote would count as whatever I voted.

Last night I used my power on someone else. That person cannot be lynched tonight.

[timmae]

Well, it only saved me because of the circumstances, no?

I could have swung a vote influentially any way it would have worked, but in this situation it saved me.

The character I used my power on last night, cannot be lynched by the wolves tonight. I put a protective net around them. I will not say who they are, in hopes that the wolves try and lynch that person.

So... Is this protect order just a lie or is it actually something that may be possible. Looking for help from those who know the books.

Also, very happy to see martin post.

[Grover]

Say I survive tonight and I use the power on another person... I won't know what that power is until AFTER I've decided to use it

[Grover]

I am a male channeler and the results of male channeling can go anyway. I have very little control over my powers.

I can only provide the powers that be with a target. What happens is up to them.

[Chief Rum]

I hinted at the dragon in two posts before the actual reveal.

I guess less subtlety in the future.

Well, how about finding those posts and quoting them for us, and we can make that judgment for ourselves.

Subtlety is fine. Just be sure to note what you said so you can point it out later. Of course, too subtle/vague, and we may not believe you. Too obvious, of course, and the people you're hiding from can find you. So it's a bit of an art.

[Grover]

I also have the ability to search one person a night for the Horn of Valere.

It seems as though CW might also have this same ability?

If that's the case, it could possibly reason that one of us is for the Light and one of us is for the Dark.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, so the first night. I randomly used my power on a person. The result to me was that their vote would count as whatever I voted.

Last night I used my power on someone else. That person cannot be lynched tonight.

Okay.

That second one, you mean nightkilled, I presume? Key difference there.

[Raven]

But this IS THE GAME. And what you don't do is get pouty and vote for yourself. Or, IMO, use your power to save yourself when you are on the block.


I don't agree with your 2nd sentence. If he is village and knows he is village, he'd use the power to save himself, or else he is lynched and his power is gone from the game anyway. Not sure how this is different than a self preservation vote against the next top vote getter when you are in the running to get lynched.

[Raven]

Also, I'd like to point out that the whole reason Grover seemed to be getting all the heat yesterday was because Zinto and Cheeki moved their votes off of him the previous day, and not necessarily for anything HE did himself.

[Grover]

vote cheekimonk

What else can I do?

I feel the light flickering out in this world. First the Seer. I feel like young Thomas watching Roland from behind the eyes of Roland's pride. Helpless. I am who those eyes belong to.

Post 457.

I see five votes on me with ONLY timmae making a statement that I could possibly be a wolf. It was a hunch. Not one of the rest of you have made a point against me.

I'm curious to see why it's okay for glen to take his vote off Martin because he's not around, when I didn't change my vote yesterday when I wasn't around and people tried to turn that into an issue today.

Is absence guilt? Then why aren't we also considering Martin as a potential wolf.

Raven has said nothing all game. He's somewhat active and his silence in this game is speaking volumes to me. Not to mention some piling on to past me cheekimonk. Who also seems to be piling on in here.

I can promise you that I am a village and I will fight this attempted witchunt with the ferocity and flame of one of our supposed dragons.

Post 427

And a couple of posts after 457, I mentioned needing the Horn to become the dragon. That was a misstatement I mixed up the various roles I had and kind of shoehorned them together. That was wrong of me and caused a ton of confusion.

I also realize that thanking whomever saved me is a red flag, especially when I claim that it was me that did that in the end. I wanted to say something originally because it might direct people from thinking I did save myself. However, having to come clean does look reactive, however there's little I can do about this now.

What I can hope to do is try and sway everyone into voting for someone else. I will answer all of your questions to the best of my ability. If it's not enough, I completely understand why you want to lynch me. Even if you don't, I think I will be dead by morning either way.

[Grover]

Okay.

That second one, you mean nightkilled, I presume? Key difference there.

Yes, sorry. I was told that that person has a protective net around them, protecting them from harm.

[Grover]

And I have strong feelings the person I ended up protecting may be a wolf. I don't trust them, the way they have pushed against me the last couple of days. Plus they made a couple of telling comments about what they may do should they be a wolf. Too easy of a link? Maybe, but I'm not sold.

[Raven]

I don't necessarily understand all the game mechanics yet, but I'm going to side with Grover here. I think he seems to be digging his own hole for some of you, but I don't think he'd vote nightfall if he was a wolf, especially this early in the day.

I'm going to vote for one of the guys whose action originally started the Grover reaction, and also put EF in the lead on the first vote.

Zinto unvote Grover, vote The Jackal

Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
EagleFan [4] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), cheekimonk (155)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

cheekimonk unvote Grover, Vote EagleFan

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk(163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [1] - path12 (147)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

vote cheekimonk

[Narcizo]

Here is my problem with the timeline today. Last night you claimed that someone saved you. Then Narcizo and I come out and say that unless a villager comes out and says they used a power to save you we should probably lynch you.

That's not exactly what I said to be honest.

Anyway, my daughter has been sick today so we're postponing our trip till tomorrow. So I'll be here to discuss how badly we feel about lynching Grover. I'm starting to get a bad feeling for a start.

Grover, you seem to have a lot of different powers, abilities and goals. Are you a named character?

[Grover]

Narc, I am not a named character, other than knowing that I can become the Dragon Reborn. (Do I need to die for this to happen? I am unsure.)

I have the ability to use channel once a day as a male, with an unknown effect on the target.

[Narcizo]

And I have strong feelings the person I ended up protecting may be a wolf. I don't trust them, the way they have pushed against me the last couple of days. Plus they made a couple of telling comments about what they may do should they be a wolf. Too easy of a link? Maybe, but I'm not sold.

If its been the last couple of days then why would you protect them? Seems a bit odd.

[Grover]

If its been the last couple of days then why would you protect them? Seems a bit odd.

Because I didn't realize that the power used on them would protect them.

[Grover]

As I said, as a male channeler the results are random and I actually have no idea what spell will be cast upon my target.

[Narcizo]

vote cheekimonk

This isn't a vote that should get any traction unless we're convinced Grover is telling the truth. If Grover's bad then it is 99% certain that cheeki is good to my mind otherwise the shadow would be taking a huge risk tying the vote, risking two of their numbers.

[Narcizo]

As I said, as a male channeler the results are random and I actually have no idea what spell will be cast upon my target.

Okey, got it.

[cheekimonk]

I don't necessarily understand all the game mechanics yet, but I'm going to side with Grover here. I think he seems to be digging his own hole for some of you, but I don't think he'd vote nightfall if he was a wolf, especially this early in the day.

I'm going to vote for one of the guys whose action originally started the Grover reaction, and also put EF in the lead on the first vote.

Zinto unvote Grover, vote The Jackal

Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
EagleFan [4] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), cheekimonk (155)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

cheekimonk unvote Grover, Vote EagleFan

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk(163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [1] - path12 (147)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

vote cheekimonk

So you went back to check that but didn't bother to check my explanation? Grover was my first vote because I wanted to park it somewhere and timmae, who invited me over here, had too many votes for me to put my meta on him. Once The Jackal, timmae, and EagleFan broke away from the pack, I was going to choose one of them because I wasn't going to waste my vote. I chose EF because he had a lot of following his voting lead...and doing it quickly.

[Grover]

So you went back to check that but didn't bother to check my explanation? Grover was my first vote because I wanted to park it somewhere and timmae, who invited me over here, had too many votes for me to put my meta on him. Once The Jackal, timmae, and EagleFan broke away from the pack, I was going to choose one of them because I wasn't going to waste my vote. I chose EF because he had a lot of following his voting lead...and doing it quickly.

So you were following the pack by voting on EF, maybe just piling on so your vote wouldn't stick out or look suspicious?

That raises a red flag for me.

[cheekimonk]

This isn't a vote that should get any traction unless we're convinced Grover is telling the truth. If Grover's bad then it is 99% certain that cheeki is good to my mind otherwise the shadow would be taking a huge risk tying the vote, risking two of their numbers.

This. Whatever happened last night did not benefit me in any sense. In fact, it put me a coin flip away from the noose.

[Grover]

To expand on that. I realize you voted for me on Day One just to park a vote. Nobody has any info on that. That's fine.

But to say you went along with the vote on EF, who turned out to be our Seer, just because everybody else had piled on to him... well, that reeks like you're trying to hide yourself in the haystack. By pulling with the group, you're blending in. Wearing the sheep's clothing, so to speak.

[Narcizo]

when he's being wagoned, which. Sounds more like a frustrated town derp than scum wine.

Scum wine doesn't sound very appetising.

[cheekimonk]

So you were following the pack by voting on EF, maybe just piling on so your vote wouldn't stick out or look suspicious?

That raises a red flag for me.

No. I was going to vote for one of the leaders (there were 3 at the time) so my vote wasn't wasted. I thought it suspicious that whenever EF changed his vote, or even announced that he suspected someone, there were 2-3 people taking his lead, so I chose EF. In fact, my vote was very conspicuous because he was calling me out for sticking to him when others were going to timmae or The Jackal. I openly defended my position.

[cheekimonk]

To expand on that. I realize you voted for me on Day One just to park a vote. Nobody has any info on that. That's fine.

But to say you went along with the vote on EF, who turned out to be our Seer, just because everybody else had piled on to him... well, that reeks like you're trying to hide yourself in the haystack. By pulling with the group, you're blending in. Wearing the sheep's clothing, so to speak.

See my response to your first post accusing me of that.

[Glengoyne]

As I was catching up this morning I've gone from reading Grover's actions as a desperate good guy to a desperate bad guy, and finally just desperate. I voted for him yesterday with the thought that I'd rather see him get lynched than cheeki, who was the other leading candidate. Now I'm not seeing a viable alternative to lynching Grover today.

If he turns out to be good I think we have some insight into the game's mechanics. If he's a baddy, then it was all a bunch of lies that we can disregard but we've caught a wolf and there will be trails to sniff out and follow.

Vote Grover

[Narcizo]

I don't agree with your 2nd sentence. If he is village and knows he is village, he'd use the power to save himself, or else he is lynched and his power is gone from the game anyway. Not sure how this is different than a self preservation vote against the next top vote getter when you are in the running to get lynched.

Because no lynch is almost always a result for wolves. Unless he's a seer and can get a scan in. A double lynch is acceptable but obviously not what he was looking for.

[Glengoyne]

Woo hoo I did manage to bold something on the tablet. I'm on a train for a few hours, and then I'll be running around Sacramento with the family and afk until the hour before deadline.

Regarding mechanics what is a nightfall vote? If it is what I'm guessing then I don't see that helps the us at all.

[Narcizo]

Nightfall allows results to be found out quicker near end game. Everyone has to nightfall in order for the lynch to go through. No, it doesn't help the village.

[path12]

I don't agree with your 2nd sentence. If he is village and knows he is village, he'd use the power to save himself, or else he is lynched and his power is gone from the game anyway. Not sure how this is different than a self preservation vote against the next top vote getter when you are in the running to get lynched.

I'd say it is different because we didn't get any lynch, the wolves got an extra night kill and we learned absolutely nothing and now have to lynch Grover again at some point.

[Coffee Warlord]

Which reminds me.

Vote Grover

No other option.

[Raven]

Because no lynch is almost always a result for wolves. Unless he's a seer and can get a scan in. A double lynch is acceptable but obviously not what he was looking for.

Maybe traditionally, but the rules for this game states -


Tie votes will be settled by either lynching both parties or lynching neither one. It's unclear which.


Not that he saw that rule and based his decision off of that. I'm saying using his power to save himself is a self preservation move. Allowing himself to be lynched may ultimately be better for the team of villagers, but his neck was on the line and he used his power to save himself. If you say you'd allow yourself to be lynched, when you have the power to save yourself, for the team - I don't believe you. Especially when these games have individual goals at play, and not just team goals.

[Coffee Warlord]

Anyway. Grover? If you turn out to be good...what's your reads on people?

[Raven]

Nightfall allows results to be found out quicker near end game. Everyone has to nightfall in order for the lynch to go through. No, it doesn't help the village.

Not sure who you were directing that comment at. If it was to me, then I am familiar with all this. Not sure what your last sentence was in reference to.

[Coffee Warlord]

Not that he saw that rule and based his decision off of that. I'm saying using his power to save himself is a self preservation move. Allowing himself to be lynched may ultimately be better for the team of villagers, but his neck was on the line and he used his power to save himself. If you say you'd allow yourself to be lynched, when you have the power to save yourself, for the team - I don't believe you. Especially when these games have individual goals at play, and not just team goals.

However.


I have the ability to use my power each night, with a random effect.


So if he's being truthful, he got incredibly lucky with pretty much the only combination of votes and target (me) that would actually save him.

[Narcizo]

Meh. My ping is being pung by Coffee but there are reasons I think voting for him would be sub-optimal all things being equal. Well, reason, anyway.

My votes staying. If you're on the side of light you should try to post your analysis and thoughts Grover.

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [8] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571), Glengoyne (651), Coffee Warlord (656)
Timmae [1] - Vaimes (620)
Cheekimonk [1] - Raven (636)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

[Narcizo]

Not sure who you were directing that comment at. If it was to me, then I am familiar with all this. Not sure what your last sentence was in reference to.

Glengoyne who asked in the post before.

[Grover]

However.



So if he's being truthful, he got incredibly lucky with pretty much the only combination of votes and target (me) that would actually save him.

My target on night one was actually Vaimes, who voted for me originally. I was able to change his vote onto cheeki with mine.

[Grover]

With so little out there, it has been pretty hard to try and prove my case as good.

I have strong feelings that Zinto and path12 are wolves. Especially with the strength that they came out with in voting for me today. I generally seem to lean that cheeki is good, though I do have questions about him.

I am on the fence with CW, but could definitely see him being a wolf here.

[Narcizo]

If you're good then I would be shocked if Zinto is bad given the way he's led the charge against you. Wolves are the only ones who know who the other wolves are.

[Grover]

If you're good then I would be shocked if Zinto is bad given the way he's led the charge against you. Wolves are the only ones who know who the other wolves are.

Can you clarify this?

If he knows who the other wolves are, he would actively avoid voting for them, unless it was to try and make a vote look good. Am I right in this thinking?

If he's bad, why not lead a charge on someone who has come out saying what I have? It makes sense to get the village on his side to lynch me. It serves his purpose as a wolf.

[Raven]

So if he's being truthful, he got incredibly lucky with pretty much the only combination of votes and target (me) that would actually save him.

No. Seems to me (from what he is saying) is that he gets to pick someone to use a power on at night, with a random effect, and then finds out the next day what that effect is. Though Grover may have to confirm this is what he is saying, this is what I think he is saying.

So night 1 he chose someone, and then day 2 found out that he could influence their vote. (I forget who he said he picked).
Then night 2 he chose someone else (you), and on day 3 found out that that person could not be lynched that day.

[path12]

I don't know where else I could go with a vote today. I totally get why you might see that as "after you", but it is based on your own actions.

[path12]

No. Seems to me (from what he is saying) is that he gets to pick someone to use a power on at night, with a random effect, and then finds out the next day what that effect is. Though Grover may have to confirm this is what he is saying, this is what I think he is saying.

So night 1 he chose someone, and then day 2 found out that he could influence their vote. (I forget who he said he picked).
Then night 2 he chose someone else (you), and on day 3 found out that that person could not be lynched that day.

This is how I read what he is saying as well.

[Grover]

No. Seems to me (from what he is saying) is that he gets to pick someone to use a power on at night, with a random effect, and then finds out the next day what that effect is. Though Grover may have to confirm this is what he is saying, this is what I think he is saying.

So night 1 he chose someone, and then day 2 found out that he could influence their vote. (I forget who he said he picked).
Then night 2 he chose someone else (you), and on day 3 found out that that person could not be lynched that day.

This is correct.

I can process my action before 10PM. After the deadline, I find out the effect on the person I targeted.

[path12]

However.



So if he's being truthful, he got incredibly lucky with pretty much the only combination of votes and target (me) that would actually save him.

I missed this. Coffee, are you saying that your vote was switched?

[Grover]

I missed this. Coffee, are you saying that your vote was switched?

If it was, it was not switched by me. I used my channeling on Vaimes for night one. His vote DEFINITELY got switched. Regardless if he knew it or not.

[path12]

If it was, it was not switched by me. I used my channeling on Vaimes for night one. His vote DEFINITELY got switched. Regardless if he knew it or not.

Ah, OK. Vaimes, did you become aware that it was your vote being switched?

[Vaimes]

No.

[Vaimes]

I'm actually kind of flattered I was someone's N1 target.

[cheekimonk]

Just for confirmation that I'm reading the rules correctly, anyone have comments on this that I posted earlier:

Wait, you've said you're Illian but you can also channel AND you could be the Dragon Reborn? I'm fairly certain that makes you a male channeler. That means you are either the Dragon Reborn, a false Dragon, or Forsaken.

Now, of the Forsaken we know "...they were wielders of the Power in the days of Legend, capable of things that are no longer even imagined. They were sealed away when the Dark One was, but not so tightly, and before the Dark One escapes, they will. It is possible one walks the world right now, his abilities so far beyond those of the Aes Sedai that they could stand in front of him and not recognize him."

He's not Aes Sedai because his power would not have "random effects" as he has claimed. Aes Sedai belong to an Ajah which strictly defines their power. He also claims that it was he who switched the vote. That's a power that I can't see any role having outside the Aes Sedai and I don't even see an Ajah that could accomplish such a thing.

Combining the "random effects on anyone" with the ability to swap the vote, these sound like abilities "that are no longer even imagined...". I think Grover is Forsaken.

[Grover]

I'm guessing the person that my spell protected for tonight has no idea that they have been protected. Hopefully, the wolves try to night kill him and get scuppered.

[Grover]

Just for confirmation that I'm reading the rules correctly, anyone have comments on this that I posted earlier:

Wait, you've said you're Illian but you can also channel AND you could be the Dragon Reborn? I'm fairly certain that makes you a male channeler. That means you are either the Dragon Reborn, a false Dragon, or Forsaken.



I have stated numerous times that I am a male channeler. Hence the wieldy and unknown results to my channeling.

[Coffee Warlord]

I missed this. Coffee, are you saying that your vote was switched?

If it was, I wasn't notified.

I was working off my prior, apparently incorrect assumption of how Grover was explaining his power. He had said he targeted me yesterday, I thought that meant I was the one whose vote got changed.

[Grover]

No one else willing to go in on nightfall votes?

The conversation for my survival seems to be smoldering, at best. May as well put me out of my misery.

[Chief Rum]

If it was, I wasn't notified.

I was working off my prior, apparently incorrect assumption of how Grover was explaining his power. He had said he targeted me yesterday, I thought that meant I was the one whose vote got changed.

Where did he say he targeted you yesterday?

[Chief Rum]

No one else willing to go in on nightfall votes?

The conversation for my survival seems to be smoldering, at best. May as well put me out of my misery.

Putting aside even the conversation of putting someone out of his misery at his own request, I can already guarantee you you won't get a unanimous vote because I refuse on principle to vote Nightfall in this situation.

That is to be used on obvious wolf situations, and definitely not on the target's request.

[Grover]

Fair enough.

[Raven]

Where did he say he targeted you yesterday?

Post #559 he quotes CW and says...

I have the ability to use my power each night, with a random effect.

In fact I used it on you last night.

[Glengoyne]

I read Grover's posts As a claim that he was targeting CW then says that his target probably doesn't know it. Misdirection? Or too many tales to keep straight?

[Chief Rum]

I read Grover's posts As a claim that he was targeting CW then says that his target probably doesn't know it. Misdirection? Or too many tales to keep straight?

Well, CW fits his earlier description of his target, but I guess Grover wasn't as interested in keeping that a secret from wolves as he first claimed.

Grover, if you want the wolves to trip up trying to lynch the mystery target of your power, why did you let the world know who the target is?

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:

[Grover]

Misdirection.

I'm not stupid enough to let the wolves know who NOT to lynch.

[Grover]

I'm leaning toward CW being a wolf than anything, to be honest.

[Coffee Warlord]

:popcorn:

Ass Sedai. :)

[Chief Rum]

Ass Sedai. :)

Umm, Aes Sedai. :D

[Coffee Warlord]

Nope, nope, I think my previous line was correct.

[Coffee Warlord]

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk (163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151), EagleFan (190)
The Jackal [2] - Zinto (160), fontisian (182)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), Coffee Warlord (170)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

As a side, final tallies from day 1, knowing what we know.

Zinto looks interesting, and it's more than a little likely that one of the 3 unknowns on timmae is a wolf.

[EagleFan]

Nope, nope, I think my previous line was correct.

:rant:

[MartinD]

As per my post earlier, I'm not convinced that Grover is of the Shadow, but (as we no longer have a seer) the only way that we can find out for certain is to lynch him.

VOTE GROVER

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [9] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571), Glengoyne (651), Coffee Warlord (656), MartinD (696)
Timmae [1] - Vaimes (620)
Cheekimonk [1] - Raven (636)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

[Vaimes]

Wow.

So Raven's probably town.

[Chief Rum]

Where is timmae anyway? Has he posted today and I missed it? He got a lot of Day One interest, and not much on him since.

Not that I am saying he has done anything I find particularly suspicious--it just seems funny to think he was in the running on Day One, and interest in him has now dropped off the map.

[Chief Rum]

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk (163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151), EagleFan (190)
The Jackal [2] - Zinto (160), fontisian (182)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), Coffee Warlord (170)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

As a side, final tallies from day 1, knowing what we know.

Zinto looks interesting, and it's more than a little likely that one of the 3 unknowns on timmae is a wolf.

Someone noted the classic wolf tactic to split votes yesterday, and using that, I was particularly interested in Zinto. As we knew that font was a villager, the one unknown on The Jackal (also good) could very well have been a wolf.

Grover is a runaway at this point, so this vote won't get any traction (nor should it), but I am going with Zinto for now.

VOTE ZINTO

[Grover]

It is certain that I will be gone tonight.

Those of you who are village need to take a long hard look at Zinto, CoffeeWarlord, Vaims, path12 and MartinD.

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [9] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571), Glengoyne (651), Coffee Warlord (656), MartinD (696)
Timmae [1] - Vaimes (620)
Cheekimonk [1] - Raven (636)
Zinto [1] - Chief Rum (700)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

[timmae]

Where is timmae anyway? Has he posted today and I missed it? He got a lot of Day One interest, and not much on him since.

Not that I am saying he has done anything I find particularly suspicious--it just seems funny to think he was in the running on Day One, and interest in him has now dropped off the map.

I am here... on the run all day long. Trying to sift through the grover posts from this morning. I don't have any additional reason to move off of my vote at this point. The likelihood that the exact powers needed to set this all up just happened to be the random powers provided on each night is staggering in my mind. Not very likely at all.

I did post that I like brit and CW a bit more if grover flips wolf. I'll see if I can go back through reasoning there.

Not sure why there was the early votes on me... I tend to post a decent amount when I am around a cpu. Not as much when I have meetings and am working off of my smartphone. Maybe that pings people. I haven't been very much help in my voting so far but I am hoping we can turn that around over the next few days.

[Grover]

*crickets*

[Glengoyne]

So it looks like Grover is heading into the vote without much ado. I guess that tracks a bit with the tone earlier.

[Glengoyne]

I guess I posted too soon too late. Or something like that.

[Raven]

It seems your fate is sealed Grover. You'd need 4 people to shift off of you just to force a tie, and there doesn't seem to be any momentum for that.

[Grover]

It is.

The truth will be revealed as I laid it out this morning.

Best of luck to the Light. May you shine through over the Darkness.

[Grover]

Perhaps one day soon I will be resurrected as the Dragon Reborn to lead you to victory. Cutting through the Darkness and saving the world.

[Glengoyne]

If the dragon has to die to be reborn, then this could be for the best in multiple ways.

[britrock88]

Caught up. Thanks for your posts today, Grover.

[Shoveler]

DEADLINE

[Grover]

Caught up. Thanks for your posts today, Grover.

You're welcome.

[Autumn]

Yesterday the nations of the world were determined, if only slightly, that Grover was allied with The Shadow. Somehow though he seemed to avoid judgment. That does not sit well with most, who finally find unity in declaring Grover suspect of working for the Dark One. For this crime he is hunted down by a group of people of all nations and forced into captivity.

Or so it should have been, but it was not that simple. With Grover surrounded, the man calling out fervent claims of his innocence, suddenly the ground shook. “Stand back!” he told his would be captors desperately. “You don’t know what you’re doing.” Waving his hands as if to ward the crowd off, the ground erupted everywhere he pointed, knocking the soldiers flat. “I don’t want to hurt anyone,” he called. “You must understand, I am the one foretold, I am the Dragon Reborn. You must trust me.”

Some hesitate as he speaks, his followers stepping out to form ranks behind him. But even as his words still echo a whirlwind of air begins in front of him and tears into the crowd which was just threatening him. “He has gone mad, he’s a channeler,” someone calls out in fear. “We need a Red sister!” another one cries. But there is no Red sister here, the closest one having been found dead just last night. Without the option of a trained Aes Sedai to shield him and protect the crowd, panic began to spread. Weapons were drawn, stones hurled, arrows loosed. “But what if he is the Dragon?” someone called out, but the danger was too great, the crowd fell on Grover until he was subdued, overpowered, and killed. “What choice did we have?” the leader of the crowd asked a silent, stunned crowd. “What choice?”

Grover was a resident of Illian and a Hunter of the Horn. He was a male channeler who may have been the Dragon Reborn.

[Autumn]

Night 3 has begun. Actions are due by 10 pm EST

[Vaimes]

Shocking.

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:

[Vaimes]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [9] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571), Glengoyne (651), Coffee Warlord (656), MartinD (696)
Timmae [1] - Vaimes (620)
Cheekimonk [1] - Raven (636)
Zinto [1] - Chief Rum (700)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

inb4 the entire scumteam was on the bandwagon.

[Glengoyne]

Sonofa. Boy this is going to take some time to digest.

[Glengoyne]

Werewolf is hard. I was convinced, that the lynch would be the right thing even if Grover was telling the truth, but now I just see another considerable loss.

[cheekimonk]

Damn. With the info we had, and Grover's reactions, I still don't see how we make any other choice. We certainly put in the time to reason through the decision...if mostly early in the day.

Still, the ruleset clearly states that there are false dragons. So...

[Coffee Warlord]

Harsh reality is it needed to happen - we'da wasted days upon days with him as a candidate. Wolves wouldn't have offed him unless they were absolutely insane.

[Vaimes]

I dunno, I started to think Grover was likely town when he had nearly the entire playerbase voting for him all day, for evidence that wasn't all that damning.

[Vaimes]

Remember when we were voting for timmae? And then a bunch of counterwagons popped up? Let's try that again toMorrow.

[timmae]

I have to reread grovers posts... there was so much back and forth I thought for sure he was covering something. Maybe he knew he was the real dragon somehow and was paniced?? Not sure why he would lie about the protect order instead of just staying silent. Not a good outcome and it basically cost us a day.

[Vaimes]

I must have some kind of weird magic powers. Whenever I vote for someone, or talk about voting someone, they suddenly appear.

[Autumn]

DEADLINE

[Autumn]

The night starts late, most people in most nations holed up long after sunset in a tavern, inn or tent debating the events of the day. Was another mad channeler taken from the world, making you all safer? Or was it the Dragon’s body that was left in the dirt, and with it the hope of all humanity? These are somber thoughts to go to sleep with, and most sleep restlessly, if at all.

Morning breaks in an unpleasant way. The halls of the White Tower are filled with shrieks, the sisters and novices rushing out of their rooms to find one of their number crashing against the walls, driven mad with grief. The yellow sisters go to her, and finally are able to calm her, but there is little else that can be done. The Green sister has lost her Warder, and the sudden breaking of the magical bond between them, no matter how far apart they were, has snapped her mind. She is useless now. And somewhere her Warder lies dead, unable to be found now without the Sister who knew his whereabouts. The White Tower has taken another blow.

Chief Rum was killed. He was a citizen of Tear and the Warder to the sister of the Green Ajah. MartinD was the Green Ajah and is now gone. They both served The Light.

As Warder, Chief Rum could communicate with MartinD through private messages, and his protection made MartinD Tough to kill.

Grover was a male channeler. Every night he could choose a target to direct his weaves towards,and produce a random effect.

[Autumn]

Day 4 has begun

[cheekimonk]

Jeebus.

[britrock88]

Yuck!

[Vaimes]

Vote timmae

I stole from Chief Rum last Night. I will not be sharing the results.

[Vaimes]

Fuck, I misread that. I thought Chief Rum died and left MartinD a Night of protection.

[Coffee Warlord]

Jesus. Well, this is becoming a stomp.

3 aes sedai in 3 nights, huh.

[timmae]

Unreal... This is getting ridiculous now. This is about as bad as it can go, right? I am thinking we will need to look at who was onto Chief and see what that gives us. Also voting patterns maybe. I want to hear from brit as he seemed to be my other good read. Need to rethink who could be working together for evil. I can check on what claims we had but chief and cheeki are the only ones I remember.

[Vaimes]

God, being a Bulletproof Lover must suck.

[Raven]

So we're down 6 already, with 10 remaining. That likely makes it 7:3 or 6:4.

If 7:3 and we don't lynch a wolf tomorrow it's close to done.
If 6:4, tomorrow is our only chance.

I'm going with my gut for now
vote Coffee Warlord
I'm getting the vibe of contrived reactions from him.

[cheekimonk]

Fellow villagers, as you know I am Aiel. You know little of our ways and so they may seem foreign to you. Above all things we Aiel survive, above all valuable things we place honor, and above all destinies - even those of our own lives - we seek the fulfillment of Aiel prophecy that the one, the Dragon reborn, will return and we will serve and protect him at all costs.

I share this with you because our village, indeed our entire world, is in dire peril from recent events and I have no choice but to intervene. I will live with honor and I will die with the same knowing that I made every effort to forward the cause of the Light and protect those who would serve the Dragon. We have learned to survive and we are cunning, thus have I come into possession of a powerful artifact. I see no other choice than to reveal that I hold the Ter'Angreal.

This powerful item is of no use in my hands as its power is drawn from the One Source and, thus, only of use to a channeler. Our losses have been especially costly in this case as there remain only 2 people we are certain are channelers those being the remaining Aes Sedai. One of these, or both, could be Black Ajah - I risk my life even mentioning the name.

We face a day that could decide the fate of our world and we Aiel will have failed to see our prophecy fulfilled. But, for that very reason I must place an additional burden on our village. We MUST, today, eliminate a servant of the dark, and I must pass on the Ter'Angreal to a channeler that is a true servant of the Light. You must help me decide in whose hands to place this powerful item. I do not know what power it conveys, but we all know the legends attest to its significance. I must pass on this item tonight and you, all of you, must help me identify one among us who can wield its power. Again, in our circumstance, I see no other choice but to demand your attention. The way of the Light is in peril, and thus the world entire. I will live or die with honor for I know no other way. I await and will closely consider your counsel.

[Vaimes]

I have one of those doohickeys too.

Are there supposed to be multiples?

[cheekimonk]

ooc

To clarify my preceding speech, it is only due to the nature of our losses - 3 Aes Sedai - that I must engage the village in this decision. It is a risk but a necessary one we must take in my opinion. I will not announce upon whom I will convey the Ter'Angreal for obvious reasons, but we need counsel.

/ooc

[cheekimonk]

I have one of those doohickeys too.

Are there supposed to be multiples?

Alas, Vaimes, there is only one Ter'Angreal. I have claimed The Fifth and taken possession of the artifact. (In other words, check your pockets for your wallet...and you might want to glance at your wrist, too, as you have very good taste in watches...)

[Vaimes]

As far as I know, I still have it. Unless you took it from me.

[cheekimonk]

My mistake, Vaimes, and all others. In re-reading the rules there may indeed be multiple Ter'Angreal. Vaimes claim could be correct.

[Vaimes]

I guess I don't get notified if someone steals from me.

[Vaimes]

Oh.

Never mind, then.

[Coffee Warlord]

I like Zinto for tomorrow, pending a little color coded vote analysis.

[cheekimonk]

Given the circumstances, I think you must reveal your faction, Vaimes. I suspect you are a fellow Aiel. If you are, and you claimed The Fifth from Chief Rum, you could have pilfered a Ter'Angreal as I was stealing yours. (In other words, goddammit could this village be more unlucky and our situation more FUBAR?)

[Vaimes]

I am in fact a villager from Aiel.

I did not receive a Ter'Angreal from Chief Rum, though.

[cheekimonk]

Regardless of what Vaimes finds in his judgment to reveal, these artifacts are still of no use unless in the hands of a channeler. Perhaps it would be best, in different circumstances, that we hide them away. But we are in dire straits and need every advantage we can get.

[Vaimes]

It's reasonable to assume I'd be notified if someone stole from me, yes?