2015 MLB thread

[Chief Rum]

Thank you Arte Moreno.

Angels: You're welcome, cartman. :D

[cartman]

only a month :)

[Chief Rum]

only a month :)

Yeah, keep fucking that chicken lol.

New year, same Josh.

It will take him at least a week longer than projected to come back, and then another three weeks before he starts to look normal hitting the ball "rounding into shape", then he'll get hot for a week and then slump until mid-August--when he will suffer some kind of oblique injury and miss the rest of the year on a "day to day" basis.

[lighthousekeeper]

Yeah, keep fucking that chicken lol.

New year, same Josh.

It will take him at least a week longer than projected to come back, and then another three weeks before he starts to look normal hitting the ball "rounding into shape", then he'll get hot for a week and then slump until mid-August--when he will suffer some kind of oblique injury and miss the rest of the year on a "day to day" basis.

Doesn't matter, even if Hamilton retires tomorrow, the Rangers already got better value from him than LAA.

Hamilton with Angels: 2.9 WAR for ~$100M = they paid $34M per W
Hamilton with Tex in 7 games: 0.5 WAR for ~$8M = they paid $16M per W


Plus, every day Hamilton sits on the DL, the check he's getting from LAA is still more than the check he's getting from Tex. :lol:

Unless Hamilton gets the entire roster hooked on the rock, there's no way Tex will end up regretting that deal.

[Subby]

"Unless Hamilton gets the entire roster hooked on the rock, there's no way Tex will end up regretting that deal."

[Chief Rum]

Doesn't matter, even if Hamilton retires tomorrow, the Rangers already got better value from him than LAA.

Hamilton with Angels: 2.9 WAR for ~$100M = they paid $34M per W
Hamilton with Tex in 7 games: 0.5 WAR for ~$8M = they paid $16M per W


Plus, every day Hamilton sits on the DL, the check he's getting from LAA is still more than the check he's getting from Tex. :lol:

Unless Hamilton gets the entire roster hooked on the rock, there's no way Tex will end up regretting that deal.

Duh.

Everyone knows the Angels got screwed on the deal with Hamilton. The thing I find funny is anyone thinking the Rangers really are going to get anything.

He's not costing them a lot, because frankly, he's not worth a lot.

[cartman]

Doesn't matter, even if Hamilton retires tomorrow, the Rangers already got better value from him than LAA.

Hamilton with Angels: 2.9 WAR for ~$100M = they paid $34M per W
Hamilton with Tex in 7 games: 0.5 WAR for ~$8M = they paid $16M per W


Plus, every day Hamilton sits on the DL, the check he's getting from LAA is still more than the check he's getting from Tex. :lol:

Unless Hamilton gets the entire roster hooked on the rock, there's no way Tex will end up regretting that deal.

Pretty much this. Like I said after the deal got announced, even if he hits .250 with 15 homers each season, the Rangers made out like bandits. If you just took what the Rangers are paying him, his salary would barely break the top 400 in the league.

[Subby]

Pretty much this. Like I said after the deal got announced, even if he hits .250 with 15 homers each season, the Rangers made out like bandits. If you just took what the Rangers are paying him, his salary would barely break the top 400 in the league.
Except that if he does that, it's not even replacement level for an OF and they are likely losing production from someone else because they feel compelled to play Hamilton.

[cartman]

Except that if he does that, it's not even replacement level for an OF and they are likely losing production from someone else because they feel compelled to play Hamilton.

For a starter yes, but for someone coming off the bench, $2 million per isn't much at all in today's game for that level of production.

[Chief Rum]

For a starter yes, but for someone coming off the bench, $2 million per isn't much at all in today's game for that level of production.

The Rangers have already shown they are inclined to start him when he's healthy.

Moot point, though--he won't be.

[BishopMVP]

Except that if he does that, it's not even replacement level for an OF and they are likely losing production from someone else because they feel compelled to play Hamilton.Is it? Kole Calhoun is at .266/.325/.396 and has a wRC+ of 108. Curtis Granderson isn't a great style match, but his .225/.335/.358 is right at league average. .250 & 15-20 HR's might not be that bad.

Btw, Paul Goldschmidt is up at a .470 OBP too? Damn.

And in depressing Red Sox news, out of 169 qualified hitters we have #'s 53, 73, 131, 148, 151, 157, 159 in BABIP. Not all of that is luck (shifts hurt Ortiz more than others f.e.) but jeez, the pitchers came back to the mean as predicted (and Rodriguez looks great), but it's paired with an equally horrific offensive slump that no one saw coming. Good thing we're in the weakest division in baseball!

[stevew]

The Astros are getting rid of that ridiculous flag and hill at the end of the season.

[MizzouRah]

The Astros are getting rid of that ridiculous flag and hill at the end of the season.

It's about freaking time.

[JeeberD]

Sad day... :(

[kingfc22]

The Astros are getting rid of that ridiculous flag and hill at the end of the season.

Nooooo!

[Tellistto]

Very nice 2 game start to a career from Chi Chi Gonzalez for Texas. 3 hit complete game shut out tonight, not a single ball hit hard. Nothing straight to the plate. Solid solid.

Tell

[MrBug708]

Kershaw was lights out today. Not de Groom potential good, but pretty darn good ;)

[MizzouRah]

Kershaw was lights out today. Not de Groom potential good, but pretty darn good ;)

Was a great game overall, Garcia pitched well.. not Kershaw well.. but good nonetheless!

[stevew]

Gerrit Cole was only about 2/3 of a deGromm today but he still survived

[CraigSca]

Matt Wieters hit one of his last homers as an Oriole today.

[claphamsa]

you think they will trade him at the deadline? I think they keep him the next 3 months

[claphamsa]

Correa getting the call up tomorrow.

[CraigSca]

you think they will trade him at the deadline? I think they keep him the next 3 months

I think they'll probably keep him and watch him go as an FA. Angelos has always had a hard time letting go of his players when there's even a hint of a playoff run in the team. Even back in the 2000's, when there was no hint, he'd block trades all the time.

[Chief Rum]

Gerrit Cole was only about 2/3 of a deGromm today but he still survived

If that's DeGromm at his best, Cole might have still had a no hitter.

[JeeberD]

Correa getting the call up tomorrow.

Happy day! :)

Edit: And Vince Valasquez, too...

[PilotMan]

Justin Verlander gave away part of his signing bonus for milk : theCHIVE (http://thechive.com/2015/06/08/justin-verlander-gave-away-a-small-piece-of-his-signing-bonus-for-chocolate-milk-2-photos/)

Although 10th grade was a long time ago for Justin Verlander, it was obvious even then that he was going to make it. That’s why his best friend Daniel Hicks, after being asked by Verlander for 50 cents for a chocolate milk, made a counter offer. If he gave him the two quarters, Verlander would pay him back with 0.1 percent of his signing bonus when he went pro. They inked the deal on a napkin and the debt was official.


Luckily for Hicks, Verlander ended up clocking a $3 million signing bonus when he signed with the Tigers. Hicks and Verlander are still best friends, but Verlander had long forgotten about the debt. Well, until Hicks came over and whipped out the tattered napkin and collected his $3,000 on what has to be the best ROI ever. What did Verlander have to say about his debt?
“Was a chocolate milk worth $3,000? I want to say yes. I was parched.”

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Love watching the games during the Father's Day road trip the Royals have each year. All players are allowed to invite 'Dad' along on the road trip closest to Father's Day. It doesn't necessarily have to be their actual dad. Could be a father figure or in-law. They get all expenses paid and get to travel with the team for the entire road trip (nine games this year).

What makes it fun is watching the various dads react to their son's plays. You can tell they love it. Usually catch them on camera giving high-fives to other dads too.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Love watching the games during the Father's Day road trip the Royals have each year. All players are allowed to invite 'Dad' along on the road trip closest to Father's Day. It doesn't necessarily have to be their actual dad. Could be a father figure or in-law. They get all expenses paid and get to travel with the team for the entire road trip (nine games this year).

What makes it fun is watching the various dads react to their son's plays. You can tell they love it. Usually catch them on camera giving high-fives to other dads too.

Yeah. It's a cool thing. A bunch of teams have been doing this for a while. I think the Red Wings started doing father road trips back in 2005 or so. It's good stuff.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

All-Star Voting update is out. Royals now have seven of the nine starters, with Eric Hosmer bumping Miguel Cabrera out of the starting lineup.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/129318532/royals-dominating-al-all-star-voting

[Shkspr]

It's really kind of an indicator how shitty and fairweather the Royal fan base is that they can't even muster up the effort to vote Omar Infante in. What the fuck is an All-Star, if you're going to ignore the guy with the .230 OBP?

[Izulde]

I bet deGrom can't do what this guy does. I also expect to see Atlantis announced as an expansion team next year, and this guy the #1 pick in the expansion draft.

Newspaper celebrates MLB's first amphibious pitcher - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/6/8/8748933/pat-venditte-switch-pitcher-newspaper-headline-amphibious-pitcher)

[stevew]

If he's a half deGromm with each arm does that make him a full deGromm or does he also need to be on?

[stevew]

It's really kind of an indicator how shitty and fairweather the Royal fan base is that they can't even muster up the effort to vote Omar Infante in. What the fuck is an All-Star, if you're going to ignore the guy with the .230 OBP?

They can vote all day and night with their Google Fiber so it's unfair.

[Johnny93g]

All-Star Voting update is out. Royals now have seven of the nine starters, with Eric Hosmer bumping Miguel Cabrera out of the starting lineup.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/129318532/royals-dominating-al-all-star-voting

And the all-star game becomes even more unwatchable

Alex Rios in 4th place!!! HAHA

[lighthousekeeper]

All-Star Voting update is out. Royals now have seven of the nine starters, with Eric Hosmer bumping Miguel Cabrera out of the starting lineup.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/129318532/royals-dominating-al-all-star-voting

if the KC area keeps this up, MLB's gonna take our voting rights away.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

if the KC area keeps this up, MLB's gonna take our voting rights away.

David Glass is rolling over in his grave thinking about the number of All-Star bonuses he'll have to pay. You have to figure Wood and Holland are shoe-ins as well.

Wait, David Glass isn't dead yet?

The other thing making me happy is Joe Buck having to unhappily announce all those Royals players for a few innings.

[kingfc22]

if the KC area keeps this up, MLB's gonna take our voting rights away.

Hopefully they take all fans voting rights away or make it count for 25% or something like that.

[Logan]

The Mets' "offense" is allowing something special to occur through 8 tonight...if you're interested in tuning in.

[kingfc22]

The Mets' "offense" is allowing something special to occur through 8 tonight...if you're interested in tuning in.

:D

[Logan]

Wonder how many fans aren't switching over from the Finals game. You guys have been spoiled.

[Logan]

That's a generous backwards K there.

[Easy Mac]

No one has hit more than 2 batters in a complete game while not allowing a hit

[Logan]

Congrats to Heston.

If I'm Collins, I fine Granderson and Tejada their game checks for those attempted at bats.

[kingfc22]

First Giants rookie since 1912 to throw a no-no.

[SackAttack]

I kinda love that I'm the lone Dodger fan in a fantasy league full of Giants fans and I'm the one who got to benefit from Heston's no-hitter.

Muahaha.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Well, on most nights, the Royals throwing a one hitter would be the pitching performance of the night. :)

Back in first place again. The no-doubter by Perez was fantastic. I'm not sure I've ever seen a batter turn away and drop the bat that quick.

[JeeberD]

Correa getting the call up tomorrow.

And he hits his first home run in just his second game!

Too bad the rest of the team has forgotten how to hit...

[lungs]

A friend's little (big) brother just got drafted in the 27th round by the Angels. It'll be fun to follow him as he tries to take this baseball thing as far as he can.

[MizzouRah]

A friend's little (big) brother just got drafted in the 27th round by the Angels. It'll be fun to follow him as he tries to take this baseball thing as far as he can.

Keep us updated, that's awesome!

[kingfc22]

Giants not impressed with Harvey.

[lungs]

Keep us updated, that's awesome!

Great kid, ran into some injury problems. He's been called one of the best prospects out of the Horizon League for a few years now. Finally stayed healthy And hit .361/.454/.657 this year with 15 HR. Horizon League isn't exactly a baseball hotbed but it will still be interesting to keep an eye on.

He was back in town playing with the Town team within the past few weekends and nobody will doubt his love for the game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Get out the brooms! Great sweep for the boys in blue to take back the best record in the AL.

Can't wait for this weekend. Get to attend the Friday and Saturday games. Expect to see a lot of blue in Busch Stadium!

[stevew]

Matt Harvey, when off, looks a lot like Colby Lewis

[MizzouRah]

Great kid, ran into some injury problems. He's been called one of the best prospects out of the Horizon League for a few years now. Finally stayed healthy And hit .361/.454/.657 this year with 15 HR. Horizon League isn't exactly a baseball hotbed but it will still be interesting to keep an eye on.

He was back in town playing with the Town team within the past few weekends and nobody will doubt his love for the game.

Has to be exciting for not only him, but his family and friends! Not a bad franchise to be drafted on either. ;)

[Chief Rum]

Has to be exciting for not only him, but his family and friends! Not a bad franchise to be drafted on either. ;)

Agreed! :D

[JPhillips]

Looks like the Reds have lost Cozart for the season with a knee injury.

Hopefully, Castellini will okay a fire sale soon.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Went to the Royals/Cards games the past two days. Obviously disappointed they couldn't win one of them, but man, watching Matheny pretend to be Tony LaRussa today was downright painful. There's nothing exciting about watching NL strategy.

Oh, and the suites at Busch Stadium are great. I've never eaten so many nachos and brauts along with downing 12 beers in five hours. It was fantastic, though I'm not sure my 40 year old body could do it every game.

[kingfc22]

There's nothing exciting about watching NL strategy.

Which is why the invented the DH. To create a league where mindless fans could enjoy baseball without understanding the nuances of the game.

[stevew]

I like NL teams but I hate NL strategy. Baseball is only fun to me if I'm there I guess.

[MrBug708]

Which is why the invented the DH. To create a league where mindless fans could enjoy baseball without understanding the nuances of the game.

Somehow I feel that if the Royals were in the NL, he'd believe the opposite.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Somehow I feel that if the Royals were in the NL, he'd believe the opposite.

Anything that even Ned Yost can master really isn't that strategic.

[Grover]

I'm the fan of an AL team but I definitely prefer "NL Strategy"

I'm of the belief that if you are one of nine players on the field, you should bat. No questions asked.

[EagleFan]

I'm of the belief that if you are one of nine players on the field, you should bat. No questions asked.

AMEN to that!!!

[BillJasper]

I'm of the belief that if you are one of nine players on the field, you should bat. No questions asked.

+1

But I have a feeling as you get more and more pitchers making north of $30 million a year, there will be support to move the NL to the DH. Owners will want to protect their investments as much as possible. Much like the rule changes we see in the NFL to protect QB's.

[miked]

I don't get the love for the "strategy" thing. If you mean by strategy sending up a guy who bats .125/.150/.150 (I think that was the average for pitchers) then sure. Or taking a pitcher out through 6 because he's coming up with runners on, then I guess. Most of these pitchers look beyond silly/stupid swinging a bat. About 80% of them don't look like they care and I'd much rather just watch them pitch.

[Sweed]

Anyone have a problem with designated fielders? Why have substandard gloves on the field when better players are sitting on the bench?

If you had the dh in both leagues pinch hitters would be unnecessary so the 4 or 5 current bench spots could be filled with great gloves with all players eligible to play either offense, defense, or both.

This is a bit facetious on my part as I do not like the DH and quit being an AL fan after it was implemented. I like the way the NL does it, so sue me:) But really what would be the argument against having the best players on the field at all times whether a "good" hitter in place of the pitcher or a "good" glove in place of a guy with hands of made of stone that can't run or throw but only plays for his bat?

Sure there would need to be rule changes. If one of the 5 DH's (just makes you smile having 5 good hitters doesn't it?) gets injured one of the DF (designated fielders) could be moved into the "batting lineup" or visa versa. A DF goes down a DH could be put into the "fielding lineup". Voila, we have the best team possible on the field at all times.

[Grover]

I don't get the love for the "strategy" thing. If you mean by strategy sending up a guy who bats .125/.150/.150 (I think that was the average for pitchers) then sure. Or taking a pitcher out through 6 because he's coming up with runners on, then I guess. Most of these pitchers look beyond silly/stupid swinging a bat. About 80% of them don't look like they care and I'd much rather just watch them pitch.

Yeah, but watching Bartolo Colon at the plate is an absolute treat.

[MizzouRah]

KC - Cardinals game rained out this early? What the heck?!?

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Giants have lost 8 straight at home. Weird, because they've been playing well lately.

Some tough losses in there - losing 1-0 yesterday with their only chance to score erased by a line-drive double play, 5 double plays today.

Casey McGehee has ground into 14 double plays this year. He has 118 ABs. Today he ground into two double plays on his first three pitches seen.

[JPhillips]

Billy Hamilton is one away from tying the modern record with six SB in a game.

[stevew]

Sid Bream did some stuff at the local little league and it got me thinking about how

1. He's invariably associated with one team especially to fans of a certain age.
2. His most famous moment, however, came against that team and it had long reaching effects.

I'm sure there are tons of other guys like this, just thought it was funny that he's unquestionably remembered as a Pirate, and for simultaneously being in the play that set off a 2 decade drought.

[Suicane75]

Billy Hamilton is one away from tying the modern record with six SB in a game.

Partially shared by Otis Nixon I believe. How do I know this off the top of my head, because my first year of playing fantasy ball was 93 and the Braves, being expected to suck, had a lot of available free agents that I scooped up for my awful team.

Nixon also did it on a Sunday, in Montreal.

[Suicane75]

Sid Bream did some stuff at the local little league and it got me thinking about how

1. He's invariably associated with one team especially to fans of a certain age.
2. His most famous moment, however, came against that team and it had long reaching effects.

I'm sure there are tons of other guys like this, just thought it was funny that he's unquestionably remembered as a Pirate, and for simultaneously being in the play that set off a 2 decade drought.

This got me thinking about Nick Essasky and his vertigo issue. Nothing more to add.

[stevew]

This got me thinking about Nick Essasky and his vertigo issue. Nothing more to add.

Yeah, he was great for a minute there.

[Vince, Pt. II]

It was pointed out to me today that McGehee's double plays this season are historic - he's already got the record for most double plays grounded into with 200 or fewer plate appearances...and he has 126 plate appearances. He could literally avoid double plays for the next 74 plate appearances and still hold that record.

[rowech]

Sick of hearing that Jay Bruce is underachieving and that he is so much better than what we're seeing. He's not. He's not a kid anymore. This is who he is.

[lighthousekeeper]

It was pointed out to me today that McGehee's double plays this season are historic - he's already got the record for most double plays grounded into with 200 or fewer plate appearances...and he has 126 plate appearances. He could literally avoid double plays for the next 74 plate appearances and still hold that record.

That's interesting. He also led the league last year in that category with 31, which was the 8th most since 1933.

[ISiddiqui]

Sick of hearing that Jay Bruce is underachieving and that he is so much better than what we're seeing. He's not. He's not a kid anymore. This is who he is.

To be fair, his last two seasons have been well below his 2010-2013 years.

[ISiddiqui]

So, interestingly, I was apparently the first person to ever tweet the hashtag #stlcards on Twitter

#stlcards - Who Said It First on Twitter (http://ctrlq.org/first/65338-stlcards-3/)

[cartman]

Bud Black is out as the Padres manager.

[Logan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHkDAROWsAIrXm1.jpg

[Scoobz0202]

I am really thinking about voting for Rios a shit ton. If he can get in over Trout and the whole lineup is Royals then MLB will see what a sham it is.

e: ofc they will already see that, but might as well make it completely over the top

[stevew]

Wow...those leads are pretty substantial too. At this point pretty much everyone would have to vote for the #2 in the category to unseat a royal.

[Logan]

The Cardinal Way involves hacking, apparently.

Log In - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?smid=tw-bna)

[EagleFan]

Bad week for baseball. The all-star voting is a joke and the Cardinals look to be guilty of a serious crime.

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not saying he’s guilty, but he’s definitely a person of interest. <a href="http://t.co/HqNFzeOlvi">pic.twitter.com/HqNFzeOlvi</a></p>&mdash; Matt Sebek (@MattSebek) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattSebek/status/610831971346960384">June 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">HMMMMMM <a href="http://t.co/xotRXh8LBO">pic.twitter.com/xotRXh8LBO</a></p>&mdash; Barry Petchesky (@barryap1) <a href="https://twitter.com/barryap1/status/610836600445108224">June 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[panerd]

David Glass is rolling over in his grave thinking about the number of All-Star bonuses he'll have to pay. You have to figure Wood and Holland are shoe-ins as well.

Wait, David Glass isn't dead yet?

The other thing making me happy is Joe Buck having to unhappily announce all those Royals players for a few innings.

The best part is the NL home field advantage for the World Series. I figure if Jamie Garcia and Tyler Lyons can dismantle these guys I can't imagine what Kershaw, Bumgarner, DeGrom, etc are go to do.

[Chief Rum]

The best part is the NL home field advantage for the World Series. I figure if Jamie Garcia and Tyler Lyons can dismantle these guys I can't imagine what Kershaw, Bumgarner, DeGrom, etc are go to do.

I think the plan is to just send DeGrom out there anyway. No need for a defense of course.

[Subby]

I think the plan is to just send DeGrom out there anyway. No need for a defense of course.
Or Scherzer.

[panerd]

Or Scherzer.

MBBF would be in quite the conundrum of Scherzer vs the Royals...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3619/scherzer2_medium.JPG

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bad week for baseball. The all-star voting is a joke and the Cardinals look to be guilty of a serious crime.

Sorry, but the only thing that's a joke about the All-Star balloting is the 'I don't give a shit' attitude of the other fan bases. Having fans that are fired up about baseball is a good thing. The other franchises should be taking notes, not complaining.

FWIW.....I hope this puts an end to the fact that home field advantage is decided by this game. That's the real joke, not the fact that the Royals fans are excited about baseball again.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MBBF would be in quite the conundrum of Scherzer vs the Royals...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3619/scherzer2_medium.JPG

Would love to see Max get the nod. Great pitcher and even a better guy. Have met him several times.

[Logan]

Sorry, but the only thing that's a joke about the All-Star balloting is the 'I don't give a shit' attitude of the other fan bases. Having fans that are fired up about baseball is a good thing. The other franchises should be taking notes, not complaining.

FWIW.....I hope this puts an end to the fact that home field advantage is decided by this game. That's the real joke, not the fact that the Royals fans are excited about baseball again.

Nah...pretty sure this qualifies as a joke too.

[Grover]

Fun story....

The NL has a higher batting average and more home runs than the AL this year.

Huge difference that DH makes...

[cartman]

The thing that is a joke is that the fucking clueless, err energized, fans think that Infante and Rios are deserving of starting, much less being part of, the All Star game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Nah...pretty sure this qualifies as a joke too.

Let's go with the assumption that you're right for the sake of argument. Why the venom towards the Royals (speaking generally, not you specifically)? Their fans are simply using the same tools available to everyone else, yet apparently no one else has decided to use them.

The best part will be, if they change it, the new 'rules' will likely forever be called the 'Royal Rule'.

[panerd]

Would love to see Max get the nod. Great pitcher and even a better guy. Have met him several times.

Agree. Kyle Gibson is coming to town to pitch for the Twins today. Fun to see former Tigers in any sport.

You have to admit the Omar Infante stuff is pretty lame. I am all for loading up the ballot box for Moustakas and Hosmer and even votes for Perez or Cain but think its stupid that people would vote a "straight ticket" for the all-star game. When I was a kid I always voted for Ozzie Smith and Willie McGee but Jose Oqendo and Tom Pagnozzi were not getting my votes over Ryne Sandburg or Gary Carter. I just think it cheapens the game and takes away from the legit all stars on the Royals.

[cartman]

A few "fans" are simply abusing the same tools available to everyone else

FTFY

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

This is a great read. Talks about the excitement of the fans, while noting what they generally feel about the Infante situation.

ANARCHY!!! How Royals fans have driven MLB experts crazy! | The Sports Nut (https://sportsnut1985.wordpress.com/2015/06/16/anarchy-how-royals-fans-have-driven-mlb-experts-crazy/)

[Logan]

Let's go with the assumption that you're right for the sake of argument. Why the venom towards the Royals (speaking generally, not you specifically)? Their fans are simply using the same tools available to everyone else, yet apparently no one else has decided to use them.

The best part will be, if they change it, the new 'rules' will likely forever be called the 'Royal Rule'.

Well, that's the exact reason there would be "venom"...because if the Royals fans are doing this legitimately, no other fanbase has cared enough about using those tools to accomplish this same result.

[Grover]

The thing that is a joke is that the fucking clueless, err energized, fans think that Infante and Rios are deserving of starting, much less being part of, the All Star game.

Look, you don't like the Royals. We get it.

Fan voting is a joke. But it is what it is. If other fan bases don't vote, their players won't start. This is a bed MLB has made for itself by introducing fan voting a few years back.

I don't vote. It's stupid. But I'm not constantly bitching about the system. If it were 7 Yankees or 7 Red Sox or 7 Cardinals, nobody would care. However, it's a small market team whose fans have come out and made an effort. Put the voting back in the hands of managers and players. Or weight the fan voting differently.

It's a broken system, made all the worse by the All-Star Game 'mattering' for home field advantage in the WS. That's also assinine.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Agree. Kyle Gibson is coming to town to pitch for the Twins today. Fun to see former Tigers in any sport.

You have to admit the Omar Infante stuff is pretty lame. I am all for loading up the ballot box for Moustakas and Hosmer and even votes for Perez or Cain but think its stupid that people would vote a "straight ticket" for the all-star game. When I was a kid I always voted for Ozzie Smith and Willie McGee but Jose Oqendo and Tom Pagnozzi were not getting my votes over Ryne Sandburg or Gary Carter. I just think it cheapens the game and takes away from the legit all stars on the Royals.

The way the online ballot was set up is the key reason why we have the Infante situation. They made it far too easy to vote a 'party ballot' for lack of a better way of saying it. It's a one-click method to find all your team's players. They need to do away with that to minimize the Royals effect that we've seen in the case of Infante.

[cartman]

I'm saying there is a much greater likelihood of a few rogue voting bots jacking up the votes then there is an energized fan base being mobilized. The discrepancy in the numbers just doesn't add up.

[Logan]

If it were 7 Yankees or 7 Red Sox or 7 Cardinals, nobody would care.

You can keep saying this as much as you want, but it doesn't make it true.

[panerd]

Look, you don't like the Royals. We get it.

Fan voting is a joke. But it is what it is. If other fan bases don't vote, their players won't start. This is a bed MLB has for itself by introducing fan voting a few years back.

I don't vote. It's stupid. But I'm not constantly bitching about the system. If it were 7 Yankees or 7 Red Sox or 7 Cardinals, nobody would care. However, it's a small market team whose fans have come out and made an effort. Put the voting back in the hands of managers and players. Or weight the fan voting differently.

It's a broken system, made all the worse by the All-Star Game 'mattering' for home field advantage in the WS. That's also assinine.

I think there would be even more venom if it was 7 Cards, Yankees, or Red Sox. It has nothing to do with KC whatsoever. Maybe on FOFC but not anywhere else in the country where people are bitching about it. If Jason Heyward and Mark Reynolds were starting for the NL I would think it was a fucking joke.

[spleen1015]

They've made it way to easy to vote multiple times.

You fill out the ballot, the required info and hit submit. Then a submit again button pops up. Fill in the numbers again for bot control and you can submit the same ballot again. You can do it 35 times in about 2 minutes.

Insane.

And, you're not required to fill out both AL & NL. I just submitted an all Orioles ballot 10 times in less than a minute and left the NL blank.

Lame.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

They've made it way to easy to vote multiple times.

You fill out the ballot, the required info and hit submit. Then a submit again button pops up. Fill in the numbers again for bot control and you can submit the same ballot again. You can do it 35 times in about 2 minutes.

Insane.

And, you're not required to fill out both AL & NL. I just submitted an all Orioles ballot 10 times in less than a minute and left the NL blank.

Lame.

This. When I voted, I used all four of my e-mails (work/home) and then also used my parents and my wife's e-mails to cast more votes (I did let them know in advance so they didn't think someone was hacking them when they got their confirmation e-mail).

35 votes per e-mail x 7 e-mails = 245 votes cast. I did all that in under 30 minutes.

[MizzouRah]

It's a stupid system and they need to have the team with the best record get WS home field advantage.. remove it from the winner of the AS game. In fact, it never should have been decided that way to begin with.

[Logan]

This. When I voted, I used all four of my e-mails (work/home) and then also used my parents and my wife's e-mails to cast more votes (I did let them know in advance so they didn't think someone was hacking them when they got their confirmation e-mail).

35 votes per e-mail x 7 e-mails = 245 votes cast. I did all that in under 30 minutes.

You say this like you're proud of it.

[Grover]

This. When I voted, I used all four of my e-mails (work/home) and then also used my parents and my wife's e-mails to cast more votes (I did let them know in advance so they didn't think someone was hacking them when they got their confirmation e-mail).

35 votes per e-mail x 7 e-mails = 245 votes cast. I did all that in under 30 minutes.

And this is why the system is terrible. Nobody should be able to do this.

All-Star games should not be a popularity contest.

[Chief Rum]

I think it's plainly obvious that the system is being gamed. Someone who is a KC Fan has developed a bot or script to submit votes. I don't buy the whole "Royals fans are just crazy excited about their team" line. No matter how excited they are, there aren't that many of them.

[panerd]

Why allow more than one vote per e-mail? I guess I could see panerd's son wants to vote as well... Anyone have 35 children?

[ISiddiqui]

Why allow more than one vote per e-mail? I guess I could see panerd's son wants to vote as well... Anyone have 35 children?

Shawn Kemp?

[molson]

I think its OK if the All-Star game is a popularity context. That is, if it includes the biggest stars in the game regardless of how they're doing this season. I think that was the original intention of the game. Because making the team doesn't really work as a merits-based award when only, at best, half the season is considered, and hell, voting actually starts in late April. So if it should strictly be a performance based thing, which seems to be the majority view these days, its really only somewhere between a few weeks and a few months' worth of performance. Not really anything to get worked up over. I'd say leave the awards that matter for the end of the season when performance for an actual whole season can be considered, and let the All-Star game be a fun exhibition with the games' biggest stars.

But, this Royals thing has strayed hilariously even from a popularity-contest ideal, because these aren't close to the biggest stars in the game. Considering how easy it is to vote hundreds of times, the fact that there's only double the usual total votes (as opposed to say, 100X), makes me lean towards an newly enthusiastic fanbase rather than a bot. You don't need a huge fanbase to double the vote total when individual fans can legit vote as often as they want. Most regular fans stopped caring about the All-Star game and voting a long time ago. I buy that the Royals fans are the only ones that care in any large number.

[panerd]

Yeah I agree it likely isn't a bot and is just a very insecure fanbase that doesn't think they got enough respect for appearing in the World Series every 30 years or so. I went to college with a lot of these guys and they are so defensive about being "scorned" as Chiefs and Royals fans. (And sadly they do this with Mizzou as well)

[spleen1015]

Either way, I think it is an intriguing story. Either than Royals fans are really voting like this or someone wrote a bot to do it. If it is a bot, I hope MLB catches it and removes those votes. That would be fun.

[spleen1015]

Where are KC fans scorned? I can see Ohio St., Notre Dame, Duke, Yankees, Red Sox fans getting scorned. KC teams haven't done anything to make the fans be d-bags enough to be scorned.

Other than MBBF, I don't know another unlikable KC fan.

[Logan]

Yeah I agree it likely isn't a bot and is just a very insecure fanbase that doesn't think they got enough respect for appearing in the World Series every 30 years or so. I went to college with a lot of these guys and they are so defensive about being "scorned" as Chiefs and Royals fans. (And sadly they do this with Mizzou as well)

I take it back...panerd might have actual venom towards the Royals. The rest of the world on the other hand...:)

[Vince, Pt. II]

A few years ago Giants fans did the same thing, though they didn't go for every single position.

Also, I heard a rumor this morning that St. Louis is being investigated by the FBI for attempting to hack information out of the Astros' database or some such. Which seems weird on so many levels.

[panerd]

Where are KC fans scorned? I can see Ohio St., Notre Dame, Duke, Yankees, Red Sox fans getting scorned. KC teams haven't done anything to make the fans be d-bags enough to be scorned.

Other than MBBF, I don't know another unlikable KC fan.

Columbia, MO. And I didn't say they were scorned I said they believed they were scorned.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why allow more than one vote per e-mail? I guess I could see panerd's son wants to vote as well... Anyone have 35 children?

It's been as many votes as you could manage for pretty much my entire life.

I can clearly recall figuring out how many ballots you could punch at the same time without having hanging chad issues.

[panerd]

It's been as many votes as you could manage for pretty much my entire life.

I can clearly recall figuring out how many ballots you could punch at the same time without having hanging chad issues.

Mine always sort of varied with the usher at the stadium but I am specifically talking about online. And I mean I guess I know why they want you to vote 35 times... 5 million votes looks like there is a lot more interest than 150,000 votes but it just seems like the 35 votes per email is what created this huge mess.

[JonInMiddleGA]

All-Star games should not be a popularity contest.

Yet that's what it's been since 1970, when fan balloting was restored.

Well over half the U.S. population doesn't remember it being any other way.

[spleen1015]

If fans were truly going the MBBF route, that would still be over ~23k fans voting with 7 email addresses.

I just don't see that being realistic.

[Chief Rum]

If fans were truly going the MBBF route, that would still be over ~23k fans voting with 7 email addresses.

I just don't see that being realistic.

Yup.

I was doing the math in my head the other day, and it would be ridiculously difficult for this to be legit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mine always sort of varied with the usher at the stadium

Curiosity question: can you remember when they were available in stores? Specifically I remember places -- like the drug store around the corner from my childhood home -- that sold Gillette products having them.

it just seems like the 35 votes per email is what created this huge mess.

I think a LOT of things created this mess.

Perhaps none of them bigger than how relatively few people particularly give two shits the integrity of their ballot.

I mentioned punching ballots by the stack ... I didn't say anything about those ballots having players from only one or two teams. I voted with a Sunday sports page & the weekly stats info right in front of me.

[spleen1015]

At the same time, if I was writing a bot to do this why stop at these numbers? To make it look legit? Fine, but why leave out NL votes.

I dunno.

[Logan]

Curiosity question: can you remember when they were available in stores? Specifically I remember places -- like the drug store around the corner from my childhood home -- that sold Gillette products having them.

I'm 32 and remember very clearly seeing them in sporting goods/apparel stores.

[ISiddiqui]

Everyone Involved In The Cardinals Hacking Scandal Seems To Be An Idiot (http://deadspin.com/everyone-involved-in-the-cardinals-hacking-scandal-seem-1711682201?fb_action_ids=10207218662051771&fb_action_types=og.likes)

Jeff Luhnow and his Astros colleagues are pretty dumb. They helped build a proprietary database for storing all sorts of important baseball operations data when they worked for the Cardinals, and then just ported the damn thing over the Astros and slapped a new name on it when they jumped ship. That’s not exceptionally stupid, but what is exceptionally stupid is the fact that they didn’t bother to change their passwords, meaning that all anyone needed to “hack” this proprietary database of sensitive information was access to Luhnow’s old master list of passwords, which still belonged to the Cardinals.

LOL!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If I remember right, the 35 vote number was roughly the number of home games during the voting period. So in theory, if you were a fan, you would vote the same number of times that you potentially had attended a game.

[Chief Rum]

At the same time, if I was writing a bot to do this why stop at these numbers? To make it look legit? Fine, but why leave out NL votes.

I dunno.

Why would a KC fan care about the NL?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Why would a KC fan care about the NL?

FWIW.....there are other indications that KC fans are doing it. Aoki is doing extremely well in the All-Star balloting. Most Royals fans would love to have him back at this point.

[Chief Rum]

FWIW.....there are other indications that KC fans are doing it. Aoki is doing extremely well in the All-Star balloting. Most Royals fans would love to have him back at this point.

If you're saying KC fans instead of a bot by a KC fan, again, there is no difference. A bot-designing KC Fan could feel the same about Aoki.

[spleen1015]

Why would a KC fan care about the NL?

I mentioned that with the idea that the bot maker wants it to look legit.

[Chief Rum]

I mentioned that with the idea that the bot maker wants it to look legit.

I think it's questionable to assume they care.

[molson]

If fans were truly going the MBBF route, that would still be over ~23k fans voting with 7 email addresses.



Or less than 2,000 fans voting with 100 email addresses. Which, if we take MBBF's time estimate at face value, would only take 7 or 8 hours over a few months. I could see some crazy fans going even further than that.

Edit: Hell, ONE fan could vote a few hundred thousand times if they dedicated 7 or 8 hours a day to this. 100 email addresses a day, 3500 total votes, that'd be around 100k a month. Hopefully nobody's doing THAT, but a small contingent of fan-boy weirdos can definitely move the needle.

[stevew]

They surely should be able to determine if large amounts of votes are coming from the same IP.

[stevew]

Or less than 2,000 fans voting with 100 email addresses. Which, if we take MBBF's time estimate at face value, would only take 7 or 8 hours over a few months. I could see some crazy fans going even further than that.

Edit: Hell, ONE fan could vote a few hundred thousand times if they dedicated 7 or 8 hours a day to this. 100 email addresses a day, 3500 total votes, that'd be around 100k a month. Hopefully nobody's doing THAT, but a small contingent of fan-boy weirdos can definitely move the needle.

Shit if you had your own domain you could just set up joeblow(x)@royalsfan.com emails 1-x and vote a million times in a month.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If you're saying KC fans instead of a bot by a KC fan, again, there is no difference. A bot-designing KC Fan could feel the same about Aoki.

Sure, but this is clearly the worst bot ever. If each fan voted 35 times, and the top vote number is around 7,000,000, we're only looking at around 200,000 fans to reach that level. Even if we cut the average back to 10 votes per person, it's only 700,000 people to reach that number. That doesn't include any non-KC fans that may (gasp) vote for a Royal.

That alone tells you it's not a bot. It's just a ridiculously low number of people participating outside of KC and a couple other markets.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The variance in vote totals does suggest that it isn't a bot. Or at least not a particularly coordinated one.

[Arles]

Everyone Involved In The Cardinals Hacking Scandal Seems To Be An Idiot (http://deadspin.com/everyone-involved-in-the-cardinals-hacking-scandal-seem-1711682201?fb_action_ids=10207218662051771&fb_action_types=og.likes)
LOL!

http://images.paulspoerry.com/2012/10/spaceballs-luggage-password.jpg

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Brewers execs must have been ill watching the last two games.

-Their former coach rolls in as manager of the AL champs.
-Lorenzo Cain and Alcides Escobar are now likely pillars in the KC lineup for the next 5-7 years (both acquired in the Greinke trade).
-Crowd is 40-50% Royals fans and sounds like a Royals home game.

[Grover]

Pretty sure they've been ill watching this entire season.

[lighthousekeeper]

http://images.paulspoerry.com/2012/10/spaceballs-luggage-password.jpg

My favorite comment from the comments section is this:

You know what’s extra-fun? There’s a non-zero chance the database was built by unpaid ‘interns’ who were expected to have advanced qualifications and work 40 hours a week: Job Posting: Arizona Diamondbacks TrackMan Operator | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/job-post)...

It might be too beautiful to be true, though. My shadenfreude was already at dangerous levels.

[Arles]

Here's another interesting wrinkle. According to Lester Munson on ESPN, there may not be enough for the FBI to move ahead with actual criminal charges. So, what if it's determined through the investigation, that Jeff Luhnow took proprietary data/structure from the Cardinals and used it as a starting point from the Astros? I'd be interested to see if he signed any kind of NDA or exit agreement with St. Louis when he left for the Astros gig.

[cartman]

Remember back when MBBF was calling for Ned Yost and his entire staff to be fired, instead of trying to make him into the second coming of Casey Stengel? Good times.

[MrBug708]

Has any game featuring the Royals on the road been anything but at least 50% Pro-Royals?

[lungs]

Brewers execs must have been ill watching the last two games.

-Their former coach rolls in as manager of the AL champs.
-Lorenzo Cain and Alcides Escobar are now likely pillars in the KC lineup for the next 5-7 years (both acquired in the Greinke trade).
-Crowd is 40-50% Royals fans and sounds like a Royals home game.

Nah, not really. Sure, the Brewers suck but nobody misses Ned Yost around here.

As for Cain and Escobar..... I dunno, but I'm fine with Carlos Gomez and Jean Segura. CF and SS are not the Brewers' problem. Of course Gomez should be floating around in trade rumors soon and Segura is keeping the seat warm for Orlando Arcia.

Attendance wise, Brewers are doing pretty darn good for how completely terrible they've been, drawing only a few hundred people less than average than the Royals do at home.

[lungs]

Has any game featuring the Royals on the road been anything but at least 50% Pro-Royals?

Weekday night game... Royals get out to a nice lead, most of the crowd leaves, a few hundred Royal fans start chanting "Let's Go Royals" in the 8th inning and MBBF extrapolates that the crowd is 40-50% Royals fans :)

[panerd]

Has any game featuring the Royals on the road been anything but at least 50% Pro-Royals?

Major League Baseball is approving a plan where the Royals season ticket holders would buy 162 games and they would attach Kaufman Stadium to a giant blimp that will take it to opposing cities. Then the Yankee, Red Sox, Cardinal, Ranger, Angel... (you know the fanbases that can't support their team like the Royals fans) will be allowed to buy the several hundred leftover tickets on the rare days that the Royals don't sell out the stadium.

[Young Drachma]

Baseball is old. The sport's fan base is older than every US major sport but golf. This is how Kansas City is able to do this. Small devoted fan base for a team starved of anything and a place where there isn't exactly that much to do.

It's a great baseball story, but you know, because it's not the Sawks or Yanks or maybe Chicago/LA, we're not as captivated.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Weekday night game... Royals get out to a nice lead, most of the crowd leaves, a few hundred Royal fans start chanting "Let's Go Royals" in the 8th inning and MBBF extrapolates that the crowd is 40-50% Royals fans :)

I'm not sure the Brewers crowd ever bothered to show up.

[lungs]

I'm not sure the Brewers crowd ever bothered to show up.

Milwaukee always has a decent chunk of the crowd passed out drunk in the parking lot.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Milwaukee always has a decent chunk of the crowd passed out drunk in the parking lot.

More so this year than most I would assume. :)

[lungs]

More so this year than most I would assume. :)

In Wisconsin we both drink to celebrate and to drown our sorrows, so I'd say it's neutral. :)

[MrBug708]

Brandon McCarthy ✔@BMcCarthy32
in keeping with baseball tradition, a Houston exec should walk into the STL offices and hit their best front office guy with a fastball

[stevew]

So this whole entire hacking scandal consists of some dumbass who doesn't change passwords?

[lighthousekeeper]

So this whole entire hacking scandal consists of some dumbass who doesn't change passwords?

and may have been guilty of theft of intellectual property in the first place.

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Phillies waved the white flag yesterday. (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/the-phillies-put-jeff-francoeur-on-the-mound-and-all-hell-broke-loose-035322562.html)

So down 17-3, Philly put Jeff Francoeur to pitch. Got through the first inning perfectly, but they left him in for the second. Gave up a homer, walked a few guys...the dugout tried to call the bullpen, but the bullpen phone was off the hook. So they started waving a white flag from the dugout to get the attention of the pen. You can't make this shit up.

[MrBug708]

Couldn't someone have just walked?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So this whole entire hacking scandal consists of some dumbass who doesn't change passwords?

It doesn't matter. It's still a felony.

and may have been guilty of theft of intellectual property in the first place.

There's no evidence of that. The only mention thus far is that the Cards broke into it to see if he stole any data from them. There's no confirmation of what you stated. And even if they thought that information was taken, the proper way to handle it is to alert authorities, not break into the system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Here's some of the stolen info for those that haven't seen it before.

What The Cardinals Learned From Hacking The Astros (http://deadspin.com/what-the-cardinals-learned-from-hacking-the-astros-1711709663)

[Arles]

Here's what we know (from the St Louis beat writer):
"What was the intent? The argument here it was a malicious attack...were they trying to gain a competitive advantage or were they just playing a prank or trying to humble the Astros. I'm tending to think...they were trying to humble the Astros or try to show off they could. At the time...the Houston Astros' Ground Control was available, you could have found it. It wasn't cloaked very well. Now some of these teams have cloaked their internal (network). Then a story ran in the Houston Chronicle in March 2014 that included a photo and in that photo the address of their internal database on the web was available. Through that portal there were multiple attempts...of unapproved access to their internal database. Now, which one was the Cardinals? What were the Cardinals trying to do? That's what's not clear. It will become clear. What they know is at some point in time, they found an entry point from a computer at a home in Palm Beach that was being used by multiple Cardinal front-office officials."

There's no evidence of that. The only mention thus far is that the Cards broke into it to see if he stole any data from them. There's no confirmation of what you stated. And even if they thought that information was taken, the proper way to handle it is to alert authorities, not break into the system.
That's pure conjecture as well. We don't know who did or why it was done. It could have been some ex-Cardinals staff mad at Ledlow for not taking them to Houston. It could have been lower level guys on the Cards or it could have been John Mozeliak himself. We just know it was from a CPU in Florida at a place where some Cards front office guys were staying.

The Deadspin article is ridiculous as well. Deadspin basically piggybacked off some random hackers a year ago and are now claim it "could have been" from Cardinals Execs. The reality is once the database location was posted, anyone could have hacked in. Time will tell the extent of what Cardinals employees did.

I think this will sort itself out pretty quickly. DeWitt has made a pretty strong stance on penalties for those involved:
“These are serious allegations that don’t reflect who we are as an organization,” DeWitt said in the release. “We are committed to getting to the bottom of this matter as soon as possible, and if anyone within our organization is determined to be involved in anything inappropriate, they will be held accountable.”

[panerd]

Meh... as a Cardinals fan I find it annoying that other Cardinals fans and Cardinal writers try to blow this off and make excuses. The defend your side at all costs mentality of sports teams (especially college sports teams) has gotten sad. My thought when this came up (and also when a rape story was on ESPN about Mizzou this weekend) is to think about Patriots fans during the "deflate-gate" and then decide do I want to look foolish like them fighting the rest of the world?

Could it end up being nothing? Absolutely, though with the FBI involved it looks highly unlikely. Could it be a rogue employee with no connection to the top? Sure but again this kind of excuse in the politics thread is laughed at by me so how can I be different now that it is "my team"? Are there certain fanbases (and posters on FOFC) that will try and play every angle to make St. Louis look bad? Yes. But unlike Arles I am willing to put my head down and join in to question why a great organization like this would be involved in crap like this instead of making excuses.

[Arles]

I'm not absolving the Cardinals of any wrong doing - I'm just saying let's wait and see. I have a hard time believe the brainpower of the Cardinals decided to illegally commit a felony and hack into another team's database from inside their own location in spring training (easily traceable). Seems pretty stupid and not something that Mozeliak would likely be a part of. Now, does that mean the Cardinals are innocent? No, it looks like someone in the organization did this and should be punished - I just can't see this being something that goes up the chain of command.

[lungs]

I've been too busy anguishing over the Royals destroying the Brewers and taking over Miller Park to get too worked up about the Cardinal "hacking" scandal.

Really though, it's a big deal in ways, but not really in other ways.

[PilotMan]

I think it would be hilarious if it turned out that they all got drunk one night and someone said,"look what I can do!". And no one remembers it.

[MizzouRah]

Meh... as a Cardinals fan I find it annoying that other Cardinals fans and Cardinal writers try to blow this off and make excuses. The defend your side at all costs mentality of sports teams (especially college sports teams) has gotten sad. My thought when this came up (and also when a rape story was on ESPN about Mizzou this weekend) is to think about Patriots fans during the "deflate-gate" and then decide do I want to look foolish like them fighting the rest of the world?

Could it end up being nothing? Absolutely, though with the FBI involved it looks highly unlikely. Could it be a rogue employee with no connection to the top? Sure but again this kind of excuse in the politics thread is laughed at by me so how can I be different now that it is "my team"? Are there certain fanbases (and posters on FOFC) that will try and play every angle to make St. Louis look bad? Yes. But unlike Arles I am willing to put my head down and join in to question why a great organization like this would be involved in crap like this instead of making excuses.

Who gives a shit about the FBI? Have you not watched J. Edgar? :lol::D;)

Seriously I doubt any of this is going to turn out like a huge scandal.. but then again, who knows? Like you I wonder why this organization would even dabble in this shit.. so that makes me believe it was some rogue type deal.

[EagleFan]

Who gives a shit about the FBI? Have you not watched J. Edgar? :lol::D;)

Seriously I doubt any of this is going to turn out like a huge scandal.. but then again, who knows? Like you I wonder why this organization would even dabble in this shit.. so that makes me believe it was some rogue type deal.

To me this is bigger than deflategate as far as the overall picture goes but meaningless as far as the game being played. It's a freaking federal felony. Someone will be getting in serious trouble for this but it shouldn't mean much on the field.

[MizzouRah]

To me this is bigger than deflategate as far as the overall picture goes but meaningless as far as the game being played. It's a freaking federal felony. Someone will be getting in serious trouble for this but it shouldn't mean much on the field.

I would agree with this.

[JPhillips]

Sick of hearing that Jay Bruce is underachieving and that he is so much better than what we're seeing. He's not. He's not a kid anymore. This is who he is.

His average still stinks, but he's up to an OPS+ of 110.

[Easy Mac]

The braves have been doing just enough this year to keep me from completely tuning out this baseball season. It's quite annoying.

[cartman]

I figured the Rangers starting pitching was done for after Yu Darvish needed Tommy John surgery, and Derek Holland got hurt in the first game of the season.

But the starters have been a pleasant surprise. Last night broke a 12 game streak of the starters registering a quality start, the longest streak in team history. Chi Chi Gonzalez has been a great addition. He has a 0.90 ERA through his first 4 career starts.

[ISiddiqui]

So Boston has benched Pablo Sandoval for checking Instagram during a game, LOL! Apparently he was going to the bathroom and grabbed his phone and clicked like on a few pictures while he was going #2.

I think its a biiiit of an overexaggeration by the Red Sox... but when you are in last, I guess you gotta do something.

[stevew]

The Pirates are pretty hot lately

[cartman]

MLB says it has canceled as many as 65 million All-Star ballots | MLB | Sporting News (http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-06-18/mlb-cancels-65-million-all-star-ballots-royals-omar-infane-fraud-fake-votes)

[stevew]

Yes. But that is already accounted for in the numbers, right?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Congrats to Ned Yost on reaching the top of the list of most wins by a Royals manager (411). He passed Dick Howser last week and Whitey Herzog tonight. Two great managers and now Ned has passed both of them.

Nice to have a four game sweep of the Brewers. Granted, they're not good, but you hate to stub your toe against a team like that.

[Izulde]

So Boston has benched Pablo Sandoval for checking Instagram during a game, LOL! Apparently he was going to the bathroom and grabbed his phone and clicked like on a few pictures while he was going #2.

I think its a biiiit of an overexaggeration by the Red Sox... but when you are in last, I guess you gotta do something.

Actually, it's because he accessed social media during a game, which is considered working hours. A lot of teams in professional sports have that rule in place, where athletes can't access social media during games or other working hours (don't know if any leagues have it as a league-wide policy, however).

[MrBug708]

Congrats to Ned Yost on reaching the top of the list of most wins by a Royals manager (411). He passed Dick Howser last week and Whitey Herzog tonight. Two great managers and now Ned has passed both of them.

Nice to have a four game sweep of the Brewers. Granted, they're not good, but you hate to stub your toe against a team like that.

Shoot, Mattingly has almost 400 himself

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Shoot, Mattingly has almost 400 himself

Howser obviously would have won a lot more if he wasn't taken so soon.

[stevew]

Wait, 5 seasons of .500 managing makes you the winningist manager in a team's 40 some year history? That's crazy

[cartman]

Bizarre end to the Rangers-Dodgers game last night. It was an epic pitcher's duel, and the score was 0-0 in the bottom of the ninth. LA got a couple of guys on, but then hit into a double play, advancing one runner to 3rd. The Rangers reliever looked like he was going to get out of the jam and send the game into extra innings, but on a 1-2 count he balked, and LA got the walk-off win.

[Grover]

Actually, it's because he accessed social media during a game, which is considered working hours. A lot of teams in professional sports have that rule in place, where athletes can't access social media during games or other working hours (don't know if any leagues have it as a league-wide policy, however).

+1

The Red Sox have a rule that all player phones must be turned off by 6:30 for a 7:10 first pitch.

[Logan]

Maybe Sandoval should switch sports and go play for the Niners.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good article about the All-Star voting. Covers a lot of reasons for the voting surge. Also notes that the 20% 'fraud' rate is in line with past years.

Why Kansas City Royals are dominating MLB All-Star Game voting (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13093905/why-kansas-city-royals-dominating-mlb-all-star-game-voting)

[lungs]

Congrats to Ned Yost on reaching the top of the list of most wins by a Royals manager (411). He passed Dick Howser last week and Whitey Herzog tonight. Two great managers and now Ned has passed both of them.

Nice to have a four game sweep of the Brewers. Granted, they're not good, but you hate to stub your toe against a team like that.

While nobody really misses Ned's in-game tactics, I do genuinely think he's a good guy and am happy to see him have some success.

[Arles]

Good insider article on ESPN by Buster Olney on the Cardinals situation. Here's some excerpts:

In every Major League Baseball game, baserunners on second try to interpret the signs from the catcher to the pitcher, so that with the turn of their head or a placement of their hand or some other subtle signal, they can relay that intelligence to the hitter. Most of the time, players say, they are unsuccessful in their quest to steal signs, but sometimes it works. Sometimes the hitter learns the location of the next pitch, or he'll receive even more information.

But what is never revealed in these situations is what the runners and hitters have ascertained, because once the vulnerability in the communication between the pitcher and the catcher is exposed, the information gleaned becomes meaningless.

This is worth remembering as we try to assess the practical impact of a breach of the Houston Astros' computer system, which is being investigated by the FBI.

This is a serious matter, and it could lead to charges. It could lead to somebody being fired, and MLB commissioner Rob Manfred could levy a significant penalty.

But based on the information that has been published to date, executives with other teams believe that the real value of any information viewed by some unauthorized party is negligible.

Some executives believe that the way this appears to have played out -- with the Astros' trade data published in a Deadspin story -- suggests that this was more about an attempt to embarrass Houston GM and former Cardinals executive Jeff Luhnow than to extricate pivotal intelligence.

A high-ranking executive posed this rhetorical question: "If you wanted to gain a strategic advantage, why would you let anyone know that you could get into their files? Wouldn't you just quietly keep accessing their information?"

Additionally, any advantage gained in infiltrating any team's system would be so serendipitous and specific in its use, executives explain, that the theoretical hacking would have to take place over a long time for the invaders to benefit.

When teams make trades, there is always the question of what they don't know about the opposing team's players: medical information, personal information, internal scouting reports, etc. If the Cardinals wanted to talk about a trade with the Astros and had access to Houston's internal documents, it would be like being able to see the hand of another player in a game of cards.

But typically, any two teams only intermittently make trades. It's not as if the Astros and Cardinals have been making deals weekly.

Rival executives are fascinated by the developments in this case and wonder how and why it happened, and some who are looking to piece all of this together note that the online leak of the Astros' information appeared shortly after Sports Illustrated published a story with a headline declaring Houston as the champions of 2017.

These executives wonder: Was the leak of the data some sort of response to that? Were one or two of Luhnow's former colleagues fed up with the credit he has received for his draft decisions? Luhnow was a polarizing figure in the Cardinals organization when he was in it, liked by some and despised by others. So was the publishing of the Houston information retribution? Revenge? Luhnow took some members of the Cardinals organization with him. Was the invasion of the Astros' computer system an act by someone left behind?

More information is needed to determine any of that, and somebody may well pay the price.

But some rival executives feel certain that the data breach couldn't have led to the mining of any important, pivotal secrets or major advantages gleaned by the Cardinals.

High-level St. Louis executives were not involved in the hacking of the Astros, writes R.B. Fallstrom, according to a law firm representing the Cardinals. GM John Mozeliak and managing partner Bill DeWitt were not aware, the Cardinals say.

[Chief Rum]

So Boston has benched Pablo Sandoval for checking Instagram during a game, LOL! Apparently he was going to the bathroom and grabbed his phone and clicked like on a few pictures while he was going #2.

I think its a biiiit of an overexaggeration by the Red Sox... but when you are in last, I guess you gotta do something.

How did they find out?

[MrBug708]

It seems like this posturing from the Cards seems a lot like the thief who maintains that the car had the keys in it, so it's not really stealing

[Grover]

How did they find out?

A reporter brought it up on twitter during the game, I believe.

[Arles]

I don't think anyone is saying that if members of the Cardinals staff accessed the Houston database, they shouldn't be punished. They broke the law and should lose their jobs for that action.

The interesting point of Olney's article is to deal with the "cheating" shots taken at the St. Louis organization. As if access to another team's scouting database in March once or twice someone invalidates the team's success over the past few years. It looks more and more like a dumb prank by some Cardinals front office people either A) upset with the credit Ludnow was getting in Houston or B) upset he didn't take them with him when he left.

I think anyone found to be involved with this should be fired and I'm fine with Manfred issuing a fine/lost draft pick for "organizational control" even if the GM and owner were found not to be involved. Yet, this isolated idiocy shouldn't tarnish the success that the Cardinals have had on the field for the past 10 years.

[cartman]

The Cards better hope the Nolan Ryan doesn't decide to "Robin Ventura" any of their employees.

[Chief Rum]

A reporter brought it up on twitter during the game, I believe.

How did he know?

Point of my question is, the only for way anyone to know would be if Panda posted a photo from the shitter to Instagram (a photo based social media), which in my opinion deserves a suspension for stupidity.

"Hey everyone! Look at the log I just laid out! Never eat three bowls of chili from Bob's Beanery!"

[Arles]

How did he know?

Point of my question is, the only for way anyone to know would be if Panda posted a photo from the shitter to Instagram (a photo based social media), which in my opinion deserves a suspension for stupidity.

"Hey everyone! Look at the log I just laid out! Never eat three bowls of chili from Bob's Beanery!"
From the story, he "liked" two pictures by other people while on the shitter. These likes were timestamped during when the phone embargo was supposed to be taking place. Had he just browsed and not liked anything, he probably would have been fine.

[molson]

How did he know?

Point of my question is, the only for way anyone to know would be if Panda posted a photo from the shitter to Instagram (a photo based social media), which in my opinion deserves a suspension for stupidity.

"Hey everyone! Look at the log I just laid out! Never eat three bowls of chili from Bob's Beanery!"

He liked some photos, which anyone can see if they're following him.

Jared Carrabis on Twitter: "Not to blow up the dude's spot, but uh...is Pablo Sandoval on Instagram during the game? http://t.co/q8X4HoFDOT" (https://twitter.com/Jared_Carrabis/status/611347991815933952/photo/1)

[Chief Rum]

From the story, he "liked" two pictures by other people while on the shitter. These likes were timestamped during when the phone embargo was supposed to be taking place. Had he just browsed and not liked anything, he probably would have been fine.

Okay, that makes more sense then.

[JPhillips]

The interesting point of Olney's article is to deal with the "cheating" shots taken at the St. Louis organization. As if access to another team's scouting database in March once or twice someone invalidates the team's success over the past few years.

More developments in the Cardinals-Astros hacking case, as Evan Drellich of the Houston Chronicle reports that, contrary to what has heretofore been reported, the illegal accessing of the Astros computer system by Cardinals employees went back as far as 2012 — a good year earlier than first thought — and “was not limited to one or two occasions.”

.

[ISiddiqui]

Oops.

[stevew]

The cards are baseball's offspring of Tebow and Baby Jesus. Pity the fool who dares to besmirch their great name.

[stevew]

Also what's up with the Sox? I thought they were littered with can't miss drool prospects and 8figure signees. What's up with being 10 games under .500. At this point they may as well tank for the #1 pick.

[ISiddiqui]

The problem everyone talked about going into the season is ending up being their undoing - the complete lack of starting pitching. Porcello, Miley, and Kelly are just awful and Buchholz is merely average.

[ISiddiqui]

Also, the Oakland A's continue to be the strangest team in baseball. Their record is 29-40. Their Pythagorean W/L, based on runs scored and allowed is 38-31.

[Logan]

I don't think anyone is saying that if members of the Cardinals staff accessed the Houston database, they shouldn't be punished. They broke the law and should lose their jobs for that action.

The interesting point of Olney's article is to deal with the "cheating" shots taken at the St. Louis organization. As if access to another team's scouting database in March once or twice someone invalidates the team's success over the past few years. It looks more and more like a dumb prank by some Cardinals front office people either A) upset with the credit Ludnow was getting in Houston or B) upset he didn't take them with him when he left.

I think anyone found to be involved with this should be fired and I'm fine with Manfred issuing a fine/lost draft pick for "organizational control" even if the GM and owner were found not to be involved. Yet, this isolated idiocy shouldn't tarnish the success that the Cardinals have had on the field for the past 10 years.

Are there any legitimate baseball writers/talking heads/former players who are saying that this invalidates all of the Cardinals' success? Because I must have missed those.

Or is this just a strawman/response to idiots on Twitter?

[Arles]

Are there any legitimate baseball writers/talking heads/former players who are saying that this invalidates all of the Cardinals' success? Because I must have missed those.

FBI probe of Cardinals makes it fair to question series with Dodgers - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-cardinals-hacking-plaschke-20150617-column.html)

After watching the planet's best pitcher endure two unimaginable meltdowns in the same situation to the same team in consecutive Octobers, some Dodgers fans began to wonder.

Were the St. Louis Cardinals cheating?

Maybe not, but now federal authorities think they may be cheaters.

Just call them the New England Cardinals … or maybe the St. Louis Patriots … or maybe just call them phonies in the wake of a New York Times report that they are being investigated by the FBI for hacking computer networks and stealing information about the Houston Astros.
Yet, just as any NFL team can raise their eyebrows after the Patriots' Delfategate and Spygate, so too can Dodgers fans now reasonably wonder.

If the Cardinals would sneak into an opponent's computer, which is a federal crime and far worse than deflating a few footballs, what else would they do to gain an edge? If they would cheat against a long-struggling team such as the Astros, why wouldn't they cheat to beat the richest team in baseball and their Cy Young Award winner Clayton Kershaw?
Then there was Game 4, a 3-2 loss in which Kershaw allowed all three runs in the seventh inning on arguably the most unusual home run of the season. Matt Adams went deep on a Kershaw curveball for the first homer by a left-handed hitter against the pitcher all season. It was also the first home run by a left-handed hitter on a curveball in Kershaw's seven-year career. And, what a surprise, there was a Cardinal on second base.

Ellis said Tuesday the team's pitching plan was not kept digitally and would be impossible to steal. He said there was nothing that would make him worry about the Cardinals in the future.

But still … were the Dodgers beaten by the Cardinal Way, or the Cardinal Con? It might be unfair to reach that conclusion, but it is now fair to ask that question.
I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg for stories like this.

[Subby]

About all those all-star whiners.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey let's see how the readers are reacting to this article on All-Star voting oh okay thanks <a href="http://t.co/NOd1jDg4cu">pic.twitter.com/NOd1jDg4cu</a></p>&mdash; Grant Brisbee (@mccoveychron) <a href="https://twitter.com/mccoveychron/status/611913083976597504">June 19, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Easy Mac]

FBI probe of Cardinals makes it fair to question series with Dodgers - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-cardinals-hacking-plaschke-20150617-column.html)




I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg for stories like this.

He did say legitimate.

[BishopMVP]

The problem everyone talked about going into the season is ending up being their undoing - the complete lack of starting pitching. Porcello, Miley, and Kelly are just awful and Buchholz is merely average.Not really. That was the problem the first month, but pitching has been fine since (I think we lead the AL East in Quality Starts, f.e.) Meanwhile the bats completely inexplicably fell off after a scorching opening couple weeks and we're now 24th in Runs Scored. And Hanley (unsurprisingly) and Sandoval (surprisingly) have been atrocious in the field.

There's also been a little bit of bad luck, and we'll probably "bounce back" to 75-80 wins. Fwiw, there's no way we could out-tank Philly/Milwaukee if we tried, and it's not like we have many players we could trade away - I count Koji, maybe Napoli if he keeps hitting like he has recently, and maaaaaybe Buchholz. Everyone else is either a Mookie/Xander/Pedroia type part of the core with years of control left or signed to a contract that teams wouldn't want to trade prospects for.

[ISiddiqui]

Not really. That was the problem the first month, but pitching has been fine since

Well they must have really horridly atrocious in that first month for their season ERA+s to be 75 (Porcello), 81 (Miley), and 75 (Kelly).

And I hate to tell you this, but Porcello's and Kelly's worst month appears to be May, and Miley's appears to be now (June) so I don't think that narrative actually works.

[Grover]

Not to mention the Sox lineup is batting worse than last year's team. And that's with two shiny new players in Panda and Hanley.

Napoli needs to go. He has no future with the team. I'd sell him for a sack of baseballs. Papi has turned it around, but I don't see him back next year. That allows Hanley to DH, you can move someone else into left, find a new 1B as well.

The Sox have a history of calling up their prospects way too soon. Swihart was out of necessity, but JBJ was up too early and the same can be said for Mookie and Bogaerts, though Xander is finally coming around in a big way.

I'm not a Sox fan, but I watch and listen to a ton of games. Hell, I'd rather watch them and listen to Castiglione and O'Brien over it.

I don't see the Sox winning 75-80 games. I think Farrell has lost the dressing room. Miley blowing up at him a couple of weeks ago, this Panda incident.

[ISiddiqui]

Not to mention the Sox lineup is batting worse than last year's team. And that's with two shiny new players in Panda and Hanley.

I'm not entirely sure about that. The Red Sox's team OPS+ last year was 93. Whereas this year it's 96 (so far). Now, the Sox's 3.9 runs per game is 4th worst in the AL, but their 4.74 runs allowed per game is dead last in the AL (and it's not really close - Chicago White Sox are second worst and they are at 4.52 runs allowed per game). For comparison, last season the Sox scored 3.91 (4th worst in the AL again) runs per game and allowed 4.41 runs per game (5th worst in the AL).

It's the pitching.

[Grover]

I'm not entirely sure about that. The Red Sox's team OPS+ last year was 93. Whereas this year it's 96 (so far). Now, the Sox's 3.9 runs per game is 4th worst in the AL, but their 4.74 runs allowed per game is dead last in the AL (and it's not really close - Chicago White Sox are second worst and they are at 4.52 runs allowed per game). For comparison, last season the Sox scored 3.91 (4th worst in the AL again) runs per game and allowed 4.41 runs per game (5th worst in the AL).

It's the pitching.

Batting average and home runs were down last week compared to last year.

Without getting into sabremetrics.

[Grover]

And I'd say it's the offense and the pitching. When they get great pitching, there's absolutely no offense and the reverse.

[molson]

The Red Sox hitting and pitching sucked both this year and last year.

[ISiddiqui]

Batting average and home runs were down last week compared to last year.

Without getting into sabremetrics.

I think I'd rather look at the sabermetrics, especially when the numbers are compared to league averages in terms of runs scored ;). It appears that the loss of Lester and Lackey had a very large impact. The additions of the, yes disappointing but still decent Ramirez and Sandoval has kept the batting at roughly the same level as last year... which isn't good, of course. It's been the pitching that has really fallen off the cliff, which has them in danger of finishing last in the AL.

[Grover]

The Red Sox hitting and pitching sucked both this year and last year.

Yep. Farrell's gotta go.

This was a lineup predicted to score 900+ runs in spring training. There's zero chemistry on the team. It's sad to watch.

The only thing exciting about them right now is Bogaerts/Mookie/E-Rod (awful nickname, can't we do better)

[ISiddiqui]

Is it really Farrell, or is it the front office? I mean I think people generally realized the Red Sox overspent this offseason (I still think Porcello is a massive mistake, FWIW). And Kung Fu Panda was seen as someone who was going to drop in production (and actually he hasn't dropped all that much tbh, if you look at his numbers since 2011) and Hanley seems to be returning to his 2010-2012 form (he was already falling from his amazing 2013).

[Grover]

I think I'd rather look at the sabermetrics, especially when the numbers are compared to league averages in terms of runs scored ;). It appears that the loss of Lester and Lackey had a very large impact. The additions of the, yes disappointing but still decent Ramirez and Sandoval has kept the batting at roughly the same level as last year... which isn't good, of course. It's been the pitching that has really fallen off the cliff, which has them in danger of finishing last in the AL.

Sure, but Sandoval's fielding has taken a nosedive and Hanley is a disaster in left field.

Sandoval has also given up on batting right-handed. The front office's policy of not giving 30+ players big deals is a joke. Lester would have been a good pitcher for another 5 years. I get blowing the team up last year because of how bad they were, but the Lackey trade was an unmitigated disaster. Kelly has been awful (so much for those Cy Young predictions he made for himself) and Allen Craig is rotting away in Pawtucket. Rusney Castillo is not showing many signs he was the player predicted to be.

It's a mess and it goes all the way to the top with Henry and Lucciano.

[Grover]

There are also many in these parts who feel that Cherington is merely a puppet for ownership. I'm not sure if I agree with it completely, but who knows.

[ISiddiqui]

Sure, but Sandoval's fielding has taken a nosedive and Hanley is a disaster in left field.

Let's be honest, Sandoval is a fat dude, and generally speaking fat dudes tend to lose their skills far quicker than other players. Defense, I'd imagine is one of the first things to go. Also, Ramirez has NEVER played LF before. The guy is a (bad defensive) SS. So, you'd expect some crap fielding.

[Grover]

Let's be honest, Sandoval is a fat dude, and generally speaking fat dudes tend to lose their skills far quicker than other players. Defense, I'd imagine is one of the first things to go. Also, Ramirez has NEVER played LF before. The guy is a (bad defensive) SS. So, you'd expect some crap fielding.

Oh, I agree. The local radio station I listen to was at a Sox game a few Fridays ago. Hanley took a few grounders at short and didn't ONCE take any flyballs in the outfield. So, I can definitely say his terrible play in LF is both unfamiliarity and a lack of trying.

Also, any picture you see of Pablo is a bad angle. Just like that spring training pic ;)

[ISiddiqui]

There are also many in these parts who feel that Cherington is merely a puppet for ownership. I'm not sure if I agree with it completely, but who knows.

Oh, wherefore are thou, Theo? ;)

[Subby]

The Red Sox are just mediocre. If you look at any advanced team stats they are somewhere in the middle. The only thing I can see that might be some good news is that their pitching seems to be a little unlucky. They have the lowest LOB% of any team (more players are scoring than expected) and their ERA is about a half run higher than their FIP and xFIP.

You would think they would have learned some lessons in free agency after unloading all of those paralyzing contracts on the Dodgers...

[ISiddiqui]

You would think they would have learned some lessons in free agency after unloading all of those paralyzing contracts on the Dodgers...

Unfortunately I think they looked at the Dodgers getting really good (esp A-Gone) and went "did we do the right thing"?

[EagleFan]

MLB cancels 60 million all star votes... should be good.

[EagleFan]

Nothing on MLB yet but I se ESPN has it on their page.

[stevew]

MLB cancels 60 million all star votes... should be good.

Yes, but are those cancelled before the numbers on Monday or after.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nothing on MLB yet but I se ESPN has it on their page.

from Bleacher Report

Based on Bowman's comments, it appears the vote removal is an ongoing process and not a one-time mass cancellation of prior votes. That would suggest the last update was accurate in reflecting the Kansas City players' leads.

[Jas_lov]

A-Rod just got 3,000. Opposite field HR off Verlander.

[IlliniCub]

I think the Cardinals should have to vacate every win for the last 10 years and be contracted from the League, but I've been accused of bias towards them in the past.

[Easy Mac]

DeGrom must not have his best stuff tonight, because he just got outpitched by a kid making his first career appearance tonight. Matt Wistler went 8 innings, 1 run, no walks and only 88 pitches.

[kingfc22]

Let's be honest, Sandoval is a fat dude, and generally speaking fat dudes tend to lose their skills far quicker than other players. Defense, I'd imagine is one of the first things to go. Also, Ramirez has NEVER played LF before. The guy is a (bad defensive) SS. So, you'd expect some crap fielding.

Giants forced him to get "in-shape" for Panda and he was in contention for a Gold Glove last year. Hedecided he would rather eat than follow the Giants training plans for more years and look at his defensive numbers compared to last year.

[AENeuman]

More Dodgers pleas

[frnk55]

Giants forced him to get "in-shape" for Panda and he was in contention for a Gold Glove last year. Hedecided he would rather eat than follow the Giants training plans for more years and look at his defensive numbers compared to last year.
Me Mongo

[frnk55]

Perfect game going for Max Scherzer through 7 innings.

[stevew]

The guy who caught Arods ball for #3000 has a thread in archive I tried to bump.

[kingfc22]

Bye bye perfecto.

Hello no-no.

[Easy Mac]

Tabata leaned into that, what an ass

[cuervo72]

Yeah, just saw it after watching the first 8 innings then going to the store (hey, I figured if I left the house it would help his cause). That's an ass move.

[Shkspr]

At least Tabata can rest easy tonight knowing he's going to get on base tomorrow as well.

[claphamsa]

was a fun game...and severe thunderstorm starts 30 min after wards! at least i made it to my car before the sky opened up.

[hoopsguy]

At least Tabata can rest easy tonight knowing he's going to get on base tomorrow as well.

I would hope he gets hit every time up tomorrow, or whenever the next time is he gets in the lineup against Washington. And that the umps issue no warnings, realizing just how incredibly bush league that was by Tabata.

[PilotMan]

That's worse than bunting. That was awful.

[stevew]

I think everyone in Pittsburgh hates his ass too fwiw

[panerd]

I think everyone in Pittsburgh hates his ass too fwiw

What is with the lips tattoo?

[Young Drachma]

What is with the lips tattoo?

Apparently it's one of his signature moves? He's blown a kiss before after breaking up someone else's perfect game a few years ago.

[Galaril]

The problem everyone talked about going into the season is ending up being their undoing - the complete lack of starting pitching. Porcello, Miley, and Kelly are just awful and Buchholz is merely average.

Yes as I was one of those who said this I will say I told us so��....sad to see the wheels coming off now in back to back years. I guess as it goes we should be happy with a few WS victories over the last 10 years.

[rowech]

I would hope he gets hit every time up tomorrow, or whenever the next time is he gets in the lineup against Washington. And that the umps issue no warnings, realizing just how incredibly bush league that was by Tabata.

Of course, the umpire could have simply had the balls to not award him the base.

[PilotMan]

The Nats pussed out by not hitting Tabata today.