WW-Pokemon Day Three Deadline 4/15 10 PM

[Autumn]

vote vaimes

[fontisian]

I mean, the game changes significantly based on EF's alignment.

If he's scum, JAG looks really bad for not switching his vote yesterDay and then starting toDay with a soft push for EF's lynch. Path, Shoveler and Vaimes also look really good for their placement on the EF wagon.

If he's town, then we can guess that scum were fairly evenly distributed across the wagons, and probably didn't switch a lot. I'd be willing to lynch Shoveler in that case (as I have town reads independent of their votes on Vaimes and Path), but I absolutely won't lynch him without a town flip from EF.

[Zinto]

As of Post 501

EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Shoveler 1-EagleFan(360)
Timmae 1-Path(361)
Raven 1-Narcizo(410)
Fontisian 1-Grover(462)
Vaimes 1-Autumn(501)

Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[fontisian]

If you were playing every game with a different set of players, it would make sense. But, at FOFC, you're playing every game with roughly the same set of players.

I don't believe you will play bloodthirsty every time you are a villager and completely different when a wolf. If you did, you'd blow your cover every time you were wolf.
...

Yes.

So, you believe that me being bloodthirsty is not alignment indicative for me.

[Narcizo]

How exactly does the EF situation get resolved without a lynch?

I suspect the britrock kill was either made because they thought he was the seer or made to make EF look good. I don't care to analyze a kill that I have relatively little information about.

If Eagle was a wolf he wouldn't believe Brit was the seer - after last game's debacle you'd think he'd reveal as a seer at some stage down the stretch. And the kill doesn't really make Eagle look good if anything the opposite. I just can't believe that wolf-Eagle would put that order in. Possibly if he thought a tie was going to kill him and a villager and he knew it was going to be a tie. But how could he?

That said I'm getting some of what you're saying and Eagle tying the vote is a worse village play than what Chief has been calling Vaimes and you out for. His early reaction today looks wolfy before he blows up but I can't see him making that kill.

[path12]

I could get behind a Shoveler vote just from what I've seen. I don't want to vote font because if she is good she is so valuable -- but what she is choosing to question is giving me pause.

[path12]

And where is JAG?

[fontisian]

Path, explain why you think the EF situation will be resolved.

[The Jackal]

vote EF

[Narcizo]

Time's up for me

unvote Raven
Vote Shoveler

Best of a fairly crap bunch. I'm almost tempted to leave my vote where it is.

[Chief Rum]

The problem with that is the word "again."

I haven't attacked EF before this game. In fact, I townread him for the past two games. We have already discussed this in this thread.

If EF was betting on a no-lynch, why did he say he was hoping for a lynch on both him and Cheeki?

I would re-read what I wrote there more closely. I didn't say who attacked him before or when it happened. I was generally referring to the constancy of your attack on him in this game AND his Day One targeting in the last game, which he referenced, in which he was a Day One lynch as a seer.

The man has dealt with quite a lot of attacking. It was not specific to you outside of this game. I have no idea what sort of history you have with EF (nor is it relevant, really).

[Chief Rum]

If EF was betting on a no-lynch, why did he say he was hoping for a lynch on both him and Cheeki?

Did you ask him? I don't know where EF's mind was at. As I noted, he was clearly quite emotional and frustrated and irrational. He seemed to actually hope if he was going to have to die, that at least maybe someone else would die too who might actually be a wolf, and thus provide us with voting history.

Clearly he felt his own death would not provide us with much.

[fontisian]

Did you ask him? I don't know where EF's mind was at. As I noted, he was clearly quite emotional and frustrated and irrational. He seemed to actually hope if he was going to have to die, that at least maybe someone else would die too who might actually be a wolf, and thus provide us with voting history.

Clearly he felt his own death would not provide us with much.
...

He already told us where his mind was at. I actually quoted the post in my case.

[Chief Rum]

I don't care to analyze a kill that I have relatively little information about.

Ironic.

[fontisian]

Ironic.
Chief, are you going to do anything actually helpful toDay?

[Chief Rum]

I mean, the game changes significantly based on EF's alignment.

If he's scum, JAG looks really bad for not switching his vote yesterDay and then starting toDay with a soft push for EF's lynch. Path, Shoveler and Vaimes also look really good for their placement on the EF wagon.

If he's town, then we can guess that scum were fairly evenly distributed across the wagons, and probably didn't switch a lot. I'd be willing to lynch Shoveler in that case (as I have town reads independent of their votes on Vaimes and Path), but I absolutely won't lynch him without a town flip from EF.

Finally! This is the sort of approach that I could see rationalizing an EF lynch. His death provides us with clarity on that first vote.

That is completely logical to me and a reason to vote for EF, as opposed to "I am getting a scum read, vote EF, vote EF, vote EF".

All that said, what has transpired since still has me reading him as a villager, so I would view a lynch on EF right now as a wasted exercise. I would prefer the seer scan him and get us info on his allegiance at some point going forward (when it is safer to do so).

[fontisian]

Ok, the seer strategy makes no sense.

Right now, we know that EF is the least likely person to have been Seer scanned alive. Literally anyone else we go for could have been scanned town, and going after them risks outing the seer or lynching a townie. Having a seer scan EF later as a way to resolve the issue means the seer is not scanning someone else.

Either you want think EF is scum or you do not. Don't depend on the seer to take care of it.

To address Chief specifically, you have once again failed to give your reasoning for thinking EF is town. This is hypocritical, after you attacked me for not giving reasoning (when I have) and fits in the pattern of you attacking people for doing useful things while doing nothing useful yourself.

[Chief Rum]

That said I'm getting some of what you're saying and Eagle tying the vote is a worse village play than what Chief has been calling Vaimes and you out for. His early reaction today looks wolfy before he blows up but I can't see him making that kill.

I agree with you, Narc, that in a very tangible sense (EF makes decision===>bad result for the village) that EF's move was a poor one for the village, in that he either gets no one killed (we lose information) or he gets at least one villager killed besides himself. A wolf would tie the game to hopefully take someone with him.

The problem is, a villager would make a similar decision. If a villager EF is about to be lynched, the villager EF sees that a villager is about to be lynched. So at least by tying it up, he gets a chance to maybe take out a wolf instead or save his villager self.

It's a very iffy decision and only adds to us needing to know EF's allegiance.

All that said, I think there is very real negatives in the strategies employed by Vaimes and font that in the long run are much more negative than the basic decision EF made.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, are you going to do anything actually helpful toDay?

No, probably not. And that won't work with me. I don't give enough of a crap to rise to your baiting. It's a game.

I'm just trying to cut through the disinformation and noise you are throwing out there to find a wolf.

[The Jackal]

unvote EF
vote shoveler

[Raven]

I'm not voting EF tonight, for previous reasons stated.
I could be possibly swayed to switch to Shoveler or Vaimes if a convincing argument was presented.

For now will go with timmae based on Path's potential tell since he has played with him as a wolf last game, and timmae is generally far more active (and often questions anyone that is not). Seems out of character for him.

vote timmae

[The Jackal]

I'd also like to hear more from timmae

[Chief Rum]

Ok, the seer strategy makes no sense.

Right now, we know that EF is the least likely person to have been Seer scanned alive. Literally anyone else we go for could have been scanned town, and going after them risks outing the seer or lynching a townie. Having a seer scan EF later as a way to resolve the issue means the seer is not scanning someone else.

Either you want think EF is scum or you do not. Don't depend on the seer to take care of it.

To address Chief specifically, you have once again failed to give your reasoning for thinking EF is town. This is hypocritical, after you attacked me for not giving reasoning (when I have) and fits in the pattern of you attacking people for doing useful things while doing nothing useful yourself.

My read on EF is that he is a villager, because of how he responded to your attacks. I believe that reaction is real and not faked. EF is a very good wolf, but I do not think he would fake what he did.

For that reason, I do not believe that actions that will lynch him are helpful to the village. All we do is lynch a villager and uncover that we pretty much know nothing from our Day One lynch.

I would rather have the seer scan him tonight and keep EF alive as a cleared player.

Had you not gone after him so hard to trigger this reaction, I might be right behind looking to lynch him. I even mentioned at times wanting to lynch EF for meta reasons (not revealing as the seer last game).

[Zinto]

As of Post 523

Shoveler 3-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), The Jackal(520)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Timmae 2-Path(361), Raven(521)
Fontisian 1-Grover(462)
Vaimes 1-Autumn(501)

Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Shoveler]

unvote EF
vote shoveler

Do I get an explanation?

[Chief Rum]

There are probably very real reasons for their lack of posting, but I would love to get more feedback from JAG, Autumn and The Jackal.

These are all frighteningly good players who have not participated as much, and it concerns me that I have no real read on them at all.

I know The Jackal has OOG reasons limiting him, and that is probably the case with Autumn and JAG, too. So I am not trying to say, "Hey, look, wolves."

Just saying, wow, those are some great players we haven't seen much of.

[Coffee Warlord]

:popcorn:

[The Jackal]

I really have been in meetings almost all day, in my last one now .. I'll have more to say later I promise

[The Jackal]

Friggin hate meetings

[Grover]

unvote fontisian
vote timmae

Still wary on font, but no word from timmae is strange. Let's put some pressure on him.

[JAG]

Sorry for not being around much, I finished page 9 and have to go again, but Chief and Raven made some fairly compelling points re: EF, so I may revisit that vote.

[timmae]

Checking in throughout the day... I did post earlier. I am finding the chief/font conversations interesting. Not necessarily thinking either is evil at this point. Need to reread things tonight when I get home. Probably around 8pm cst. Don't waste your time voting for me, I've claimed already.

[The Jackal]

I'll decide what's a waste of my time thank you very much

[The Jackal]

hint: this meeting

[The Jackal]

but yes timmae, that last line is and/or should be disregarded by everyone

[Grover]

Don't waste your time voting for me, I've claimed already.

You claimed as a vanilla villager, correct?

Forgive me for not having complete faith in that, when we're all posing as the same to start the game.

[Chief Rum]

Guys, I am pretty sure timmae is joking (and I thought it was pretty funny).

[fontisian]

The problem is, a villager would make a similar decision. If a villager EF is about to be lynched, the villager EF sees that a villager is about to be lynched. So at least by tying it up, he gets a chance to maybe take out a wolf instead or save his villager self.
My question, then, is why unvote? Why make the tie a surprise end of day thing? Surely, the actual towny thing to do is to vote the other person up for a lynch and then try to convince people to vote with you. Or, if you're too frustrated to convince people, at least be upfront and honest about the vote totals. The way I see, EF tried to slip in a tie and only unvoted in the hope that it would help confuse the town. That is not a town action.

All that said, I think there is very real negatives in the strategies employed by Vaimes and font that in the long run are much more negative than the basic decision EF made.
I listened to your complaints about Vaimes, and found that the only one making poor decisions in the long run was you. I've now listened to your complaints about me and again have found them to be worthless and harmful. Similarly, your idea that someone should be lynched for bad play in a previous game is horrific and unfair to the person. Do you have any further points to make?

My read on EF is that he is a villager, because of how he responded to your attacks. I believe that reaction is real and not faked. EF is a very good wolf, but I do not think he would fake what he did.
Ok. Why do you believe it is real?

Moving on, we are not lynching Shoveler toDay, because he is likely town if EF is scum.

[The Jackal]

Guys, I am pretty sure timmae is joking (and I thought it was pretty funny).

maaaaybe

[The Jackal]

unvote shoveler

[The Jackal]

Do I get an explanation?

Partially trying to see what happens, but not a lot of activity at the moment.

[timmae]

Everyone is so serious around here.

I reread from the beginning and I am back to my gut read on autumn D1. Some initial fluff posts. Throwing his vote around a bit. Jumping to and fro. Maybe someone can tell me if that is typical autumn or not. Not sure on his meta rep. Then an easy vote for vaimes. Not much pressure being applied to anyone off the radar. And yes, I see the irony in voting for the guy because of a joke post. :p

vote autumn

[The Jackal]

I agree that it's unlikely that EF/shoveler are on the same side if one is a wolf

[The Jackal]

I feel like there's enough questions about EF (move at the deadline, nightfall desperation stinky cologne) combined with knowing his allegiance benefitting us in the vote analysis.

Brit certainly was a strange target, but not sure I want to use that in a linear assumption that the wolf team doesn't have any vets.

[The Jackal]

To follow-up on that thought - brit could have been a target by the wolves as someone they thought the seer might scan N1, being in the vote and a usually strong contributor as a villager

[The Jackal]

vote autumn

[timmae]

I read EF's exasperation as legit with my knowledge of what went down last game. It's possible he could be a bit theatrical on purpose but I didn't take it as evil!EF.

[The Jackal]

I'm definitely not discounting EF as a wolf. I'm not sure it would have been necessary for him to come out that desperately, although if he is a wolf.. it's kinda workin.

[The Jackal]

Especially if there's a cunning wolf in the game.

[The Jackal]

I don't have any strong feelings like I did last game with Zinto - heck my strongest feeling yesterday was cheeki and that didn't turn out well.

[The Jackal]

It's mildly interesting that there was nothing going on with Autumn after Raven threw a second vote on. I know it was questioned at that point as spreading the vote too much, but still interesting.

[timmae]

Especially if there's a cunning wolf in the game.

No doubt, but wouldn't cunning be explained as part of team rocket? Or no?

[Grover]

I'm leaving my vote on timmae for better or worse. (sorry timmae!)

I'll try and get on before the deadline, but my bowling may not allow that.

[The Jackal]

No doubt, but wouldn't cunning be explained as part of team rocket? Or no?

Maybe - I guess this was intended on being a vanilla game, so there might not be many roles.

[Raven]

It's mildly interesting that there was nothing going on with Autumn after Raven threw a second vote on. I know it was questioned at that point as spreading the vote too much, but still interesting.

Are you referring to yesterday?

[The Jackal]

Are you referring to yesterday?

Yes

[timmae]

I'm leaving my vote on timmae for better or worse. (sorry timmae!)

I'll try and get on before the deadline, but my bowling may not allow that.

No worries... I have you, autumn and grover down as possible teammates right now anyways. ;)

[The Jackal]

Just trying to see if I can identify any points in the vote yesterday when it seemed like reactive moves were being made, or trends away from specific people.

[The Jackal]

No worries... I have you, autumn and grover down as possible teammates right now anyways. ;)

TWO GROVERS?!

[path12]

Moving on, we are not lynching Shoveler toDay, because he is likely town if EF is scum.

So you are saying if EF is town then Shoveler is probably scum? (see, I can be hip to new lingo)

[The Jackal]

For those that are assuming EF good, seems like we'd want to look at people who didn't move their vote much or at all

[fontisian]

So you are saying if EF is town then Shoveler is probably scum? (see, I can be hip to new lingo)
He seems to be the scummiest on the EF wagon, yeah.

You still haven't explained how the EF situation be resolved if we don't lynch him?

[path12]

So you are saying if EF is town then Shoveler is probably scum? (see, I can be hip to new lingo)

Actually I see you said something very much like that last page.

UNVOTE TIMMAE
VOTE SHOVELER

[Grover]

No worries... I have you, autumn and grover down as possible teammates right now anyways. ;)

When did I multiply!

Is the other me evil, or just wicked in nature?

[timmae]

TWO GROVERS?!

LOL, he's twice as bad. Double kill werewolf, that'd be something.

I meant raven. You guys are the three stooges for now.

[Raven]

Yes

I parked my initial d1 vote on Autumn 7 or 8 hours before deadline. Not sure why my vote looks significant to you there, but you're welcome to go back and repost voting logs. I pointed out the error with Narc's voting log, but no one has took on the task of trying to fix it and repost. (2 pages back or so)

[Zinto]

As of Post 566

Shoveler 3-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), Path(563)
EagleFan 2-Fontisian(355), Jag(356)
Timmae 2- Raven(521), Grover(530)
Autumn 2-Timmae(542), The Jackal(546)
Vaimes 1-Autumn(501)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[EagleFan]

Quick post. I have not been well today (the past few days to be honest) and knew that I wasn't going to be very active today at all. Didn't want to say that yesterday as I thought I was going to pretty much be out all day (sent Z and apology for that as I don't like the idea of missing a lot of time in these games, if it can be avoided). Luckily I am vanilla and meaningless as far as the village goes.

As for my move last night. I was not going to do it but then cheek made the move so I took a shot. Figured the chances are that I was still going to end up being lynched. My guess at that point was that the other two were either vanilla or at least one wolf.

Lynching me ends this font BS and lets everyone move on, hence the nightfall. Additionally, the only person I am getting a wolf read on is Shoveler so I have no second thought about leaving my vote there.

If I was a wolf, I tie it up and we take out either JAG or Narc. No way I would want to clear up day one for the village, let the village waste time trying to figure out what it all meant.

I will gladly fall on my sword but think that Shoveler is the way to go today.

[EagleFan]

YES I was goading font into nightfall. A villager that is SO CERTAIN would have no problem voting nightfall, a wolf on the other hand wouldn't want their vote to be locked.

[EagleFan]

Okay, last post for a little while. What I would like to see, in order of preference:

Shoveler lynch
Burn the witch
Let me fall on my sword

[fontisian]

Ok.

Unvote
Vote Shoveler.

[fontisian]

YES I was goading font into nightfall. A villager that is SO CERTAIN would have no problem voting nightfall, a wolf on the other hand wouldn't want their vote to be locked.
Pretty sure nightfall votes are locked, not lynch votes.

[timmae]

Okay, last post for a little while. What I would like to see, in order of preference:

Shoveler lynch
Burn the witch
Let me fall on my sword

Wait, we have witches in this roleset also?! :p

Get better EF... we'll see you back here soon. Unless you get lynched or NK'd. Then see ya next game!

[The Jackal]

I parked my initial d1 vote on Autumn 7 or 8 hours before deadline. Not sure why my vote looks significant to you there, but you're welcome to go back and repost voting logs. I pointed out the error with Narc's voting log, but no one has took on the task of trying to fix it and repost. (2 pages back or so)

To be clear, I was mentioning that as looking at Autumn, not you. I know it was early, and probably grasping at straws.

[Chief Rum]

My question, then, is why unvote? Why make the tie a surprise end of day thing? Surely, the actual towny thing to do is to vote the other person up for a lynch and then try to convince people to vote with you. Or, if you're too frustrated to convince people, at least be upfront and honest about the vote totals. The way I see, EF tried to slip in a tie and only unvoted in the hope that it would help confuse the town. That is not a town action.


I felt it was pretty clear he was frustrated when he unvoted. You're trying to bring rationality to the decisions of a frustrated and emotional individual. I think it is a mistake to presume EF was thinking too clearly at that point.


I listened to your complaints about Vaimes, and found that the only one making poor decisions in the long run was you. I've now listened to your complaints about me and again have found them to be worthless and harmful.


I am not the one making a player so frustrated he votes nightfall at the start of the day. I am not introducing confusion into the village with a false claim. I am not ignoring all other perspectives just to satisfy my conviction--based on a whim or a hunch at the start of Day One.

If I am making harmful decisions, I shudder to think what level of harm you are doing.


Similarly, your idea that someone should be lynched for bad play in a previous game is horrific and unfair to the person.


Have you never played on Day One before? It's a meta vote to start the game, where everyone but you (apparently) has no information. I (and many others here) often make pointless, meta votes to get a vote going, and then as the day progresses and we start to consolidate, then I flip to a more proper candidate based on the discussion in play and my gut feel (because once again, I don't have information on Day One).

I believe you know this and are using an argumentative technique to attempt to make me look bad. I give this group of players far more credit than you, though, and believe they will see through it.


Do you have any further points to make?


Not that you will accept, clearly.


Ok. Why do you believe it is real?


Because I have played WW with EagleFan for several years now. And I have seen any number of emotional outbursts and breakdowns in similar situations with others. His reactions are not unfamiliar to me.

[Chief Rum]

To follow-up on that thought - brit could have been a target by the wolves as someone they thought the seer might scan N1, being in the vote and a usually strong contributor as a villager

While this seems improbable to me, I like the thinking here, in that it is a different possibility I had not considered.

[Chief Rum]

Pretty sure nightfall votes are locked, not lynch votes.

Zinto may have his own rules for this one, but Nightfall votes also lock down the lynch vote of that player at the time he makes the Nightfall vote.

[Chief Rum]

FTR, I did not see EF come back and expound on his actions last night before responding to font's post above.

I don't see anything in there to change my perspective on things (but I felt it looks weird that my post addresses EF without acknowledging that last post).

[Shoveler]

Well apparently everyone still has that picture of Dog the bounty hunter in their minds from EF's game. Yeah that guy is scummy, I agree completely.

However, back to this game.

I guess I look bad because I moved my vote off of cheeki when he had a 6 to 4 lead over brit. My understanding was a close race to the finish would reveal more information, guess I was mistaken. Hell I'm starting to draw fire and I didn't tie the damn vote up at the end. Still dont have a clue about the piggyback vote comment. Are you trying to say I am in league with Autumn since he removed a vote off of cheeki minutes before I did?

This will most likely not ease your mind, but here goes.

Vote: Autumn

[Zinto]

As of Post 579

Shoveler 4-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), Path(563), Fontisian(571)
Autumn 3-Timmae(542), The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579)
Timmae 2- Raven(521), Grover(530)
EagleFan 1- Jag(356)
Vaimes 1-Autumn(501)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Zinto]

Since there were a couple of questions I will address them:

EF cannot change his vote. He locked himself in once he voted nightfall(I probably didn't make this clear enough)

All of the roles are laid out in the rules. Nothing is hidden so there are no wolf roles.

[The Jackal]

Good to know, Zinto

[Raven]

I said I was willing to change my vote to Vaimes or Shoveler if a good argument was presented.

Instead, path (who claimed to have a tell on timmae) moves off of timmae and on to Shoveler with no explanation, when timmae starts getting some traction. This is very curious, and they are split among the two top vote getters.

font wants to lynch EF, but then decides to vote with EF? It's clear EF and Shoveler are not aligned. But if she is convinced EF is wolf, why move off of him?

Vaimes has been gone all day, after a taking a lot of attention yesterday. He also pretty much held onto font's coattails yesterday.

So let's see where this takes us...

unvote timmae
vote Vaimes

[Autumn]

Well, lucky me. I was busy until now with kids, and still watching them. I just caught up (except for some of the CR/Font posts which I have started to skim past). My vote is on Vaimes becuase looking back through posts this noon I didn't like his more than most, and noticed he hadn't posted at all today. Looks like he still hasn't (?) so I will move my vote (obviously I need to anyway) but I am suspicious there and will return to him until I start seeing something better from him.

Basically he, Shoveler and Raven are my bad reads right now. Seemed like the other two were getting some heat so I focused on vaimes with my vote this morning, but I would vote either of those two. I suspect any of them would possibly target Britrock based on previous games, and their posts and votes haven't convinced me other wise. I'll check the vote count and see where to go.

[Chief Rum]

I want to see more action from Autumn, who can be one of the more dangerous wolves around.

I don't believe Autumn is more suspicious than Shoveler at the moment, but it is more dangerous to not push him.

Plus, as I type this post, he is one vote behind Shoveler, and a close vote always gives us more information.

VOTE AUTUMN

[Vaimes]

Hi.

Tuesdays are kinda busy for me, I won't be free until 9-ish.

[Autumn]

Funny crosspost. Glad for company on Vaimes, but unless he shows up I'm not going to lynch an absent dude. So I'll move to Shoveler and get myself out of some hot water.

<b>unvote vaimes
vote shoveler</b>

[Autumn]

lots nad lots of crossposting, lol

[Autumn]

gotta get my kid, brb

[Chief Rum]

Well, lucky me. I was busy until now with kids, and still watching them. I just caught up (except for some of the CR/Font posts which I have started to skim past). My vote is on Vaimes becuase looking back through posts this noon I didn't like his more than most, and noticed he hadn't posted at all today. Looks like he still hasn't (?) so I will move my vote (obviously I need to anyway) but I am suspicious there and will return to him until I start seeing something better from him.

Basically he, Shoveler and Raven are my bad reads right now. Seemed like the other two were getting some heat so I focused on vaimes with my vote this morning, but I would vote either of those two. I suspect any of them would possibly target Britrock based on previous games, and their posts and votes haven't convinced me other wise. I'll check the vote count and see where to go.

lol... great timing.

[Chief Rum]

I like that Autumn is here, but to my thinking, I would still like to keep the pressure on him and see what comes up between he and Shoveler (and timmae, if that's how it goes).

I am working tonight, so I am likely to not be available until after the deadline.

[path12]

Instead, path (who claimed to have a tell on timmae) moves off of timmae and on to Shoveler with no explanation, when timmae starts getting some traction. This is very curious, and they are split among the two top vote getters.

Just for the record, I think there is a possible tell there, I can't say for sure one way or the other but it's enough that timmae is not on my trust list right now.

But I'm not totally comfortable with lynching timmae just on a hunch when there are a number of folks (myself included) who are also suspicious of Shoveler and I think that case is a little more solid.

[path12]

BTW, leaving soon and have to get a couple things done after work. I'll be back by 6:30 Pacific or so and will try to keep track via phone.

[Autumn]

I like that Autumn is here, but to my thinking, I would still like to keep the pressure on him and see what comes up between he and Shoveler (and timmae, if that's how it goes).

I am working tonight, so I am likely to not be available until after the deadline.

I must say I find it a bit out of character for Chief to leave a not so serious vote on me when he's going out and I'm close to the lead.

[Autumn]

Looking back at Timmae, I feel pretty good about him. I'd rather those voters decide between me and Shoveler if they feel the need.

[Zinto]

As of Post 595

Shoveler 5-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), Path(563), Fontisian(571), Autumn(587)
Autumn 4-Timmae(542), The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)
EagleFan 1- Jag(356)
Vaimes 1- Raven (583)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Raven]

I still don't see a case being made for any of the candidates, so screw it. Since I may not be back before deadline, let's tie it up and see what happens.

unvote Vaimes
vote Autumn

[The Jackal]

Hmm this run on Autumn is also interesting

[The Jackal]

My router just went out so gonna have to keep up on my phone

[Vaimes]

Hm. More of my townreads are on Shoveler.

Uh. Are we trying to keep it tied, or. Because otherwise I'm voting Shoveler.

[fontisian]

We are not trying to keep it tied.

[fontisian]

I'm actually suspicious of Raven for that reasoning.

[Autumn]

And I am not surprised that Vaimes is feeling better about Shoveler than me.

[JAG]

I'm here. I apologize again for lack of posting, basically just out of game reasons. New job so a lot of training and little downtime there even at lunchtime.

I find the Autumn votes to be suspicious. I don't think I saw much of a case laid out for him. I don't know about Shoveler, I think this is our second game and he seemed different in tone than his first game, but that might be due to being busy.

After the move EF pulled at deadline, I agree I look pretty bad if he turns up wolf. For the record I refreshed and saw him make the change, but I couldn't get my vote changed and formatted on my phone quick enough to switch to him. I was disgusted enough that I just gave up trying to post the vote because I knew it was late.

[JAG]

Unvote EF
Vote Shoveler

[JAG]

I actually felt decently about Raven until the Autumn vote. Going to see if I can pull up the reasons there.

[Vaimes]

Can we kill Raven toMorrow?

[Vaimes]

Vote Shoveler

[Shoveler]

Well I need to put my kid to bed and I dont want to make the mistake that was made a few games ago.

Vaimes is town, I scanned him last night. I am Red, the seer.

I've played this poorly. Tried to stay under the radar to keep myself from drawing a night kill and apparently that is making me look bad to everyone else. So there you have what little information I can provide at this point.

My intent tonight was to scan EF.

[JAG]

Just an aside, I love that we have a passionate group and in general since the rebirth we've had way more posting in general, which is great. But it would be awesome if we could argue respectfully and not dig into other people. It's a turn off to me and I would be surprised if I'm the only one. Anyway, off the soapbox.

[JAG]

Well I need to put my kid to bed and I dont want to make the mistake that was made a few games ago.

Vaimes is town, I scanned him last night. I am Red, the seer.

I've played this poorly. Tried to stay under the radar to keep myself from drawing a night kill and apparently that is making me look bad to everyone else. So there you have what little information I can provide at this point.

My intent tonight was to scan EF.

Why Vaimes?

[fontisian]

Shoveler, why scan Vaimes?

[Shoveler]

Why Vaimes?

The reveal/non-reveal confused me. So I checked him out. Didn't have much else to work with other than a random shot in the dark.

back in a few..

[path12]

I've played this poorly. Tried to stay under the radar to keep myself from drawing a night kill and apparently that is making me look bad to everyone else. So there you have what little information I can provide at this point.



You weren't going to get a night kill. I'm not buying it.

[Autumn]

I can buy that. unfortunately it takes out two guys I was suspect of. Glad he revealed now so I can ponder.

[Autumn]

<b>unvote shoveler</b>

[Zinto]

As of Post 616

Shoveler 6-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), Path(563), Fontisian(571), JAG(605), Vaimes(608)
Autumn 5-Timmae(542), The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[timmae]

Very confusing 2 days. I am keeping my vote on autumn for the reasons I laid out. Not sure I believe shoveler as it isn't even close to lynch chaos and there seems to be quite a few people around to shift if need be. That, much like EF, will work itself out though. If vaimes and shoveler are around tomorrow we have some fud to work through.

[timmae]

Just an aside, I love that we have a passionate group and in general since the rebirth we've had way more posting in general, which is great. But it would be awesome if we could argue respectfully and not dig into other people. It's a turn off to me and I would be surprised if I'm the only one. Anyway, off the soapbox.

Thanks for this post jag. We have an awesome group here, no doubt! I have to imagine that all of the attitude is game related. Maybe some meta but still game related. Back to our regularly scheduled program.

[JAG]

Unvote Shoveler

I don't know that I believe it as he didn't post anything about being confused regarding the Vaimes 'reveal', but I don't want to lynch the seer if I'm wrong. I actually forgot the fake reveal thing from yesterday.

[Zinto]

Just an aside, I love that we have a passionate group and in general since the rebirth we've had way more posting in general, which is great. But it would be awesome if we could argue respectfully and not dig into other people. It's a turn off to me and I would be surprised if I'm the only one. Anyway, off the soapbox.


I agree with this. I wrote out half a post to ask people to step away from the computer if they are feeling heated or to even PM whoever is running the game and vent out their frustrations. I changed my mind because I thought I was being too sensitive.

[Autumn]

I have a few people I'm watching and wondering about, but am unsure on my reads. looking back at Raven there is a lot of asking other people to make a case on someone and then he will vote there, which feels wolfish to me. not a lot to go on there, fairly low posting.

<b>vote raven</b>

[timmae]

Shoveler... Why the quick claim??!

[JAG]

Reading back today, I like what I've seen from Jackal. Feeling pretty decent about him as villager.

[Shoveler]

Shoveler... Why the quick claim??!

Quick? Only an hour left and I had to put my kid to bed. EF didn't give enough time two games ago and he was crucified for that. I guess I am not privy to the appropriate reveal time schedule.

[Vaimes]

Unvote
Vote Raven

[timmae]

I agree 1 minute is a bit too late, no doubt about that!

[Vaimes]

We're guaranteed one more check because the Martyr very much needs to protect you.

[JAG]

Unfortunately I don't have even a medicore negative read at this point.

[fontisian]

Shovler: Vaimes check, why?

[Vaimes]

Also if Shoveler isn't the actual Seer then a 1 for 1 would be nice here.

[JAG]

Quick? Only an hour left and I had to put my kid to bed. EF didn't give enough time two games ago and he was crucified for that. I guess I am not privy to the appropriate reveal time schedule.

Nothing wrong with your timing in my opinion.

[Autumn]

Nothing wrong with your timing in my opinion.

+1

[Zinto]

As of Post 633

Autumn 5-Timmae(542), The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 4-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510), Path(563), Fontisian(571)
Raven 2- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[Autumn]

This is too close for comfort at the moment. Vote me if you must, but Font and Path need to move off shoveler. Other two will not move.

[fontisian]

Unvote
Vote Raven

[timmae]

Working off of smartphone.. Autumn, did you claim?

[path12]

This is too close for comfort at the moment. Vote me if you must, but Font and Path need to move off shoveler. Other two will not move.

I do not buy the reveal but I will switch. I also think the fact you moved off him immediately even though you were next in voting speaks well for you as village.

UNVOTE SHOVELER
VOTE RAVEN

[EagleFan]

If the Shoveler reveal is real...

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[Autumn]

Working off of smartphone.. Autumn, did you claim?

I have not. I am a vanilla villager.

[timmae]

unvote autumn
Vote raven

[path12]

Vaimes flat out said when he claimed martyr that town shouldn't pay attention to it. Why scan him?

[The Jackal]

Vaimes flat out said when he claimed martyr that town shouldn't pay attention to it. Why scan him?

I mean, a wolf would say that too.

[Zinto]

As of Post 642

Raven 5- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[The Jackal]

And better than scanning brit, at least.. though an EF scan would've been super.

[EagleFan]

speaks well for you as village.



Not really, a wolf would move immediately as they would at least know the player wasn't a wolf. Take a chance that people think just like what you posted.

[The Jackal]

Not really, a wolf would move immediately as they would at least know the player wasn't a wolf. Take a chance that people think just like what you posted.

Yeah totally could be a buying trust move.

[timmae]

Did I say how much I hate nightfalls?! (ribbing EF!)

[path12]

I mean, a wolf would say that too.

Yeah, I don't know. I think you get a counter claim eventually.

[Raven]

You guys pressure people to cast votes that count, then when they do you lynch them for it. Must be nice to vote early with no fucking reasoning whatsoever, so you can just coast through.

[EagleFan]

What is the case against Raven? I am not getting a wolf read off him.

[path12]

Not really, a wolf would move immediately as they would at least know the player wasn't a wolf. Take a chance that people think just like what you posted.

Yeah totally could be a buying trust move.

Those are both fair points.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, I don't know. I think you get a counter claim eventually.

Which if I understand the logic, would just lead to the false claimer saying they were vanilla trying to deflect attention without hurting the actual Martyr.

[The Jackal]

What is the case against Raven? I am not getting a wolf read off him.

There isn't much of a case against Autumn either if we're being honest..

[Zinto]

As of Post 653

Raven 5- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)


Pushed to the next page

[EagleFan]

Yeah, I don't know. I think you get a counter claim eventually.

A counter claim against Autumn claiming vanilla? Autumn's move by no means proves that he is village. The point was that a valid Shoveler claim would cause a wolf to move first as they would already know he isn't a wolf so they have no reason to question his claim and want to look as village as possible.

[The Jackal]

He meant counter claim to Vaimes Martyr false claim, EF

[The Jackal]

if he was a wolf faking in that situation

[EagleFan]

Did I say how much I hate nightfalls?! (ribbing EF!)

Hey, still not completely buying the claim but we will see about that tomorrow if we get a counter claim.

[Autumn]

If Raven flips wolf, I think I will be looking at EF tomorrow (and hopefully he'll be scanned anyway).

[path12]

Which if I understand the logic, would just lead to the false claimer saying they were vanilla trying to deflect attention without hurting the actual Martyr.

Yeah, basically.

[The Jackal]

Fact in point is that your vote is now useless, though, whether or not Shoveler is telling the truth

[The Jackal]

And not useless in the Grover I'm at bowling and not changing my vote useless, an active useless where we could actually see you forced to make a decision!

[path12]

He meant counter claim to Vaimes Martyr false claim, EF

Jackal is correct.

[The Jackal]

Oh and + however many to JAG's post about keeping it civil. It's easy to get emotional in this game but you have to learn not to take things personally and remember that while most of the time it's village vs village when people get angry, there are often people INTENTIONALLY getting under your skin because they're wolves and they want to start shit.

[The Jackal]

Or because they are villagers trying to gauge your defensiveness level

[The Jackal]

Anywho, I have no real strong read on Autumn vs Raven .. just don't want another tie

[path12]

Or some of us are just assholes.

[The Jackal]

Or some of us are just assholes.

lathum isnt playing

[JAG]

Tough choice here. I liked what I read from Raven today. Not much read on Autumn, but I really did not care for the run-up on Autumn for very little reason that I could see.

[path12]

lathum isnt playing

Ha!

[The Jackal]

Tough choice here. I liked what I read from Raven today. Not much read on Autumn, but I really did not care for the run-up on Autumn for very little reason that I could see.

And the subsequent run on Raven with very little reason. Both are weird.

[EagleFan]

Fact in point is that your vote is now useless, though, whether or not Shoveler is telling the truth

I would have no gut reason to change anyway at this point to be honest. This makes for a stress free night. I get to sit back and observe.

[The Jackal]

I mean, the one on Raven makes a little more sense since people were forced into a time crunch and no one seemed interested in raising multiple new candidates, but still .. no one even entertained the thought of putting EF back up or looking at someone else

[JAG]

Vote Raven

But let's not tie it again.

[The Jackal]

I would have no gut reason to change anyway at this point to be honest. This makes for a stress free night. I get to sit back and observe.

Moreso arguing against the use of nightfall, not you personally. But also that last line is what every wolf would LOVE to do, just sayin

[path12]

I only voted Raven because there wasn't another option.

[Raven]

You have no reason to vote me and are undecided. Same decision I faced earlier tonight, but I'm the one who will now pay for it.

Another villager down! Good luck all.

[JAG]

Autumn wasn't an option?

[Autumn]

I mean, the one on Raven makes a little more sense since people were forced into a time crunch and no one seemed interested in raising multiple new candidates, but still .. no one even entertained the thought of putting EF back up or looking at someone else

i think they followed my lead, so I'll own that. It seemed dumb to drag EF back into it after spending all day discussing him, and suggesting the seer scan him. At least this way we get some more voting history. I was a perfectly reasonable candidate so it will tell us something which way people went.

[fontisian]

Look, if the reason we're not lynching EF is that he probably wouldn't have made that kill (which is my reasoning), that also applies to Autumn.

[path12]

Autumn wasn't an option?

I could be getting fooled, but I did like that he jumped right off.

[JAG]

Look, if the reason we're not lynching EF is that he probably wouldn't have made that kill (which is my reasoning), that also applies to Autumn.

That was another reason in Autumn's favor. I would be very surprised if he would sign off on that N1 kill. Then again, maybe he wasn't around for the decision.

[The Jackal]

I don't want to much too much weight on that line of reasoning

[path12]

All right. My wife is giving me stink eye. Good luck to us.

[Zinto]

Deadline

[The Jackal]

Brit is a good player, he was a very strong seer scan if he wasn't the seer, if EF is good it put EF in the crosshairs .. a vet could have easily signed off on that, especially if someone felt strongly about a post of his that we're not privy to

[Zinto]

Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)


Nightfall 1-EagleFan(360)

[fontisian]

All right. My wife is giving me stink eye. Good luck to us.
Just tell her that you're playing a game with a 19 year old girl. I'm sure she'll take it really well.

[The Jackal]

Just tell her that you're playing a game with a 19 year old girl. I'm sure she'll take it really well.

saldana isn't playing either

[Autumn]

saldana isn't playing either

Gold.

[Zinto]

Day Two Results

Tensions continue to rise after Britrock's Pokemon were stolen. As anger in the camp rises and fingers keep getting pointed in every direction. As the day goes on the camp narrows it down to two trainers Autumn and Shoveler. Just as you are about to reach a decision Shoveler flips on a red hat.

The fingers start moving from Shoveler and start moving towards a new candidate. As each finger starts pointing towards Raven he starts to shuffle his feet. As the last person votes Raven out of the camp he yells "Team Rocket will never lose!"

As Jag is the last person to vote for Raven he decides that he will defeat him in battle. Raven sends out his Zubat and JAG counters with his Charmander. A few quick bursts of ember and Zubat is dispatched. With a screech and a run Raven disappears from the camp.

Raven was a member of Team Rocket

[JAG]

Yes!

[timmae]

woohooo... stooge number 1 down!

[Zinto]

Night Two Results

Tensions melt away after the Team Rocket threat was removed from the camp. Jokes are made and songs are sung. It is easy to fall asleep knowing that your Pokemon are safe.

Unfortunately, it is not as safe as it seems. When you wake up the next morning you find a note from Chief Rum. It says that his beloved Pidgey has been stolen and he is heading back home to wait for the next pilgrimage of trainers.

Chief Rum was a vanilla villager.

[The Jackal]

Well then, nice work

[EagleFan]

If the Shoveler reveal is real and we have no counters...

Day One Vote Count

Cheekimonk 5-The Jackal(160), Raven(214), Chief Rum(226), Britrock(237), EagleFan(337)
EagleFan 5-Fontisian(61), Vaimes(71), Shoveler(264), Path(318), Cheekimonk(333)
Britrock 4- JAG(59), Narcizo(192), Autumn(260), Timmae(293)
The Jackal 1-Grover(104)

[The Jackal]

sucks we lost CR, but nice he wasn't roled

[Vaimes]

SCORE.

[The Jackal]

I hope that score is a wolf scan

[Vaimes]

Wait, the scumteam didn't try to shoot Shoveler? Really?

[The Jackal]

just confused you and shoveler, ha

[JAG]

A vanilla villager was killed? That does not look good for Shoveler.

[The Jackal]

Prevailing logic would be that the assumption is the Martyr guards Shoveler last night, so it would be a wasted kill.

[Vaimes]

Can I just take a moment to say I am so happy that my read on Raven was correct, you don't even know.

It was mostly a lucky guess BUT STILL.

[The Jackal]

Did Zinto say the Martyr died if he got a block? He said no right? Traditional BG?

[Vaimes]

Prevailing logic would be that the assumption is the Martyr guards Shoveler last night, so it would be a wasted kill.

No it wouldn't, because then the Martyr would be dead and then the scumteam could take out Shoveler the next Night.

[fontisian]

I would approve of a seer claim toDay if Shoveler is lying, especially with the martyr still in play.

[Vaimes]

Bleh, I can't remember what Zinto said.

[Autumn]

vote EagleFan

[The Jackal]

The Martyr role was not purposely vague(oops). The Martyr can protect someone each night but will be the one who is nightkilled if the protection hits the nightkill target.

Nevermind, this makes Shoveler look worse, because at least they'd take out the Martyr.

[EagleFan]

vote EagleFan

Seriously? Not even waiting for Shoveler's scan result?

[The Jackal]

Could have been a calculated risk knowing that we'd maybe lynch the seer for them if Shoveler and the Martyr didn't die today, and they just take out a strong player instead

[The Jackal]

But yes, curious what Shoveler has to say

[Vaimes]

Oh right, we're going with the assumption that I put kills in early or something.

[Autumn]

That is my placeholder. I feel pretty strong but we will see what happens. Waffling on the third wolf, but vote history should help. Off to bed yall

[fontisian]

Could have been a calculated risk knowing that we'd maybe lynch the seer for them if Shoveler and the Martyr didn't die today, and they just take out a strong player instead
That's crazy. We're not going to lynch the claimed seer on Day 3 without a counter.

[EagleFan]

Nevermind, this makes Shoveler look worse, because at least they'd take out the Martyr.

Good catch.

[Vaimes]

Oh right, we're going with the assumption that they put kills in early or something.

Wow that's a horrible post, but FIXED.

[JAG]

Could have been a calculated risk knowing that we'd maybe lynch the seer for them if Shoveler and the Martyr didn't die today, and they just take out a strong player instead

And giving us an extra free scan? There's no decent reason I can see for doing that, unless they misread the rules.

[EagleFan]

That's crazy. We're not going to lynch the claimed seer on Day 3 without a counter.

Wait until morning for everyone to catch up. The way this game has gone the seer may not even be on (if Shoveler reveal is fake).

The wolves could have also purposely gone after someone other than Shoveler to make him a target of the lynch.

Additionally, if we believe they weren't around much based on the day one kill (or maybe a new player could have been the only one around) it may have been an early kill order before the reveal.

[EagleFan]

Oh right, we're going with the assumption that I put kills in early or something.

I have to say, one other time I saw someone basically call themselves a wolf in a post and it was true.

[Vaimes]

If only life were that easy.

I think I was talking and typing at the same time and slipped in an 'I' when I was saying "I.'

[EagleFan]

If the Shoveler reveal is true:

Day Two Final Tally

Raven 6- Autumn(622), Vaimes(626), Fontisian(636), Path(638), Timmae(641), JAG(675)
Autumn 4- The Jackal(546), Shoveler(579), Chief Rum(585), Raven(597)
Shoveler 2-EagleFan(360), Narcizo(510)
Timmae 1- Grover(530)

[EagleFan]

Any read on Grover? He has one off votes both days.

[fontisian]

Guys, Raven was around to change the kill to Shoveler.

[Vaimes]

Oh right, time to look at who didn't hop on the Raven wagon.

[timmae]

Going on a hunch here... voting for stooge* number 2.

vote autumn

*stooge is a term of endearment as I usually love those guys. Only Benny Hill is better.

[JAG]

Right, there was no way the wolves didn't have time to change the kill.

[JAG]

Going on a hunch here... voting for stooge* number 2.

vote autumn

*stooge is a term of endearment as I usually love those guys. Only Benny Hill is better.

With all due respect (see?), this is an awful vote. He started the run on Raven and Raven voted him instead of Shoveler earlier in the day. Very very unlikely wolf in my opinion.

[Vaimes]

Huh. So Jackal is the only unknown on Autumn, and then Narcizo and Grover are just sort of out there.

[Vaimes]

timmae, did you roll Wolf again?

[timmae]

timmae, did you roll Wolf again?

I told you I am.... a 3 stooges fan. :)

[Vaimes]

Uh huh.

Why are you voting for Autumn?

[JAG]

Shoveler being on Autumn also makes him look worse.

[The Jackal]

That's crazy. We're not going to lynch the claimed seer on Day 3 without a counter.

Probably right.

And giving us an extra free scan? There's no decent reason I can see for doing that, unless they misread the rules.

Also logical .. so this leads you guys to believe Shoveler is lying?

[Vaimes]

If he is lying, it's. Kind of a bad strategy. It'd buy him a Day at best.

[fontisian]

Probably right.



Also logical .. so this leads you guys to believe Shoveler is lying?
Sure. But I'm not lynching him until the actual seer counters.

[timmae]

Uh huh.

Why are you voting for Autumn?

His D1 was sketchy... first few posts felt forced. Then his votes were all over the place. Probably nothing here but I have a hunch. I'd keep my eye on him... from what I know he may just be crazy enough to pull off that D2 vote.

[EagleFan]

If he is lying, it's. Kind of a bad strategy. It'd buy him a Day at best.

Or hoping to lure out the real seer.

Did Chief post anything after his reveal that may have looked like he had reason to doubt the reveal?

[JAG]

Autumn definitely knows to be careful about his voting record as a wolf, but it's one thing to bury a vote and another to start a run on a teammate when he could've licked anyone else. And there's also the fact that Raven voted for Autumn bringing him into a tie with Shoveler. If Shoveler was. A villager and Autumn a wolf, that's a very risky move to put your teammate in that kind of danger.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, seer fishing is certainly an on the block wolf reveal tactic.

[JAG]

Autumn definitely knows to be careful about his voting record as a wolf, but it's one thing to bury a vote and another to start a run on a teammate when he could've licked anyone else. And there's also the fact that Raven voted for Autumn bringing him into a tie with Shoveler. If Shoveler was. A villager and Autumn a wolf, that's a very risky move to put your teammate in that kind of danger.

PICKED anyone else...darn you autocorrect

[Vaimes]

But fishing for the Seer in a setup with a Bodyguard-type role is suboptimal, since the Seer is then guaranteed at least one more check and could potentially PoE the fake Seer's buddies.

[EagleFan]

Either way I think we are not in bad shape with what we have learned so far.

[Vaimes]

No, I think you meant 'licked.' :P

[timmae]

licked... lol. That's a stooge technique!

[The Jackal]

But fishing for the Seer in a setup with a Bodyguard-type role is suboptimal, since the Seer is then guaranteed at least one more check and could potentially PoE the fake Seer's buddies.

But.. if you convince the BG to guard the fake seer because there's no counter, you have a better shot of killing the real one.

[EagleFan]

Okay, Chief posted nothing since the reveal.

[EagleFan]

That either means:

1) Shoveler was telling the truth and the wolves misread the rules, thinking he would be protected tonight I could see them going BG hunting and maybe assuming no back to back protection so he would be fair game tomorrow.

2) Shoveler was telling the truth and the wolves wanted to try to make us doubt him. Possible but probably not as likely as we would certainly have a counter if this was fake.

3) Shoveler did a fake reveal hoping to lure out the real seer. Going after someone that hadn't posted since the reveal would mean they didn't see a likely true seer among the group so they went for absent players looking for the real seer.