RIP Bruce Jenner, We Hardly Knew Ye...

[Subby]

Welcome to the world, Caitlyn!

Caitlyn Jenner on the Cover of Vanity Fair | Vanity Fair (http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-bruce-cover-annie-leibovitz)

http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/06/01/556c7a224ae56e586e457d3e_vf-cover-bruce-jenner-july-2015.jpg

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/JimMiller">@JimMiller</a> reports that <a href="https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner">@Caitlyn_Jenner</a> will receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at this year's <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPYS">@ESPYS</a>.</p>&mdash; Richard Deitsch (@richarddeitsch) <a href="https://twitter.com/richarddeitsch/status/605421732447580161">June 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[flounder]

If nothing else, she deserves our respect as the first woman on a box of Wheaties.

[Subby]

HOT TAEK ALERT:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bruce Jenner is more accepted by Americans for being a tranny than Tim Tebow is for being a Christian. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ObamasAmerica?src=hash">#ObamasAmerica</a></p>&mdash; #91WinMets (@PattyWhite_NYM) <a href="https://twitter.com/PattyWhite_NYM/status/605424040640167936">June 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[Solecismic]

That would be comparable if Jenner had accepted the gold medal during the Olympics, then whipped off his track suit to reveal lacy panties and a bra (according to the piece of the Vanity Fair article they've already released, he wore women's undergarments during his publicity tours way back when).

Many people criticize Tebow for his display of religion during football games, not for being a Christian.

Jenner is just trying to live her life, and make the path for others a little easier.

[Logan]

Many people criticize Tebow because ESPN stroked his genitals at every opportunity and everyone got sick of it.

[molson]

That would be comparable if Jenner had accepted the gold medal during the Olympics, then whipped off his track suit to reveal lacy panties and a bra (according to the piece of the Vanity Fair article they've already released, he wore women's undergarments during his publicity tours way back when).

Many people criticize Tebow for his display of religion during football games, not for being a Christian.

Jenner is just trying to live her life, and make the path for others a little easier.

The transgendered have it more difficult than Christians in the vast majority of America, but the problems some people have with both are kind of similar. They want people to keep traits they're uncomfortable with to themselves, whether it be religion or sexual orientation or gender identity. So it makes sense that gender identify tolerance has lagged behind some other things, because when its fully realized and embraced its kind of right in your face.

[ISiddiqui]

Many people criticize Tebow because ESPN stroked his genitals at every opportunity and everyone got sick of it.

Word. I bet even Tebow was sick of it.

Anyways, congrats to Caitlyn for coming out in this way!

[heybrad]

Somebody has mastered photoshop.

[Butter]

I thought maybe he had ended it all. Bit of a scary click. Made not all that much less scary by the picture.

[Solecismic]

The transgendered have it more difficult than Christians in the vast majority of America, but the problems some people have with both are kind of similar. They want people to keep traits they're uncomfortable with to themselves, whether it be religion or sexual orientation or gender identity. So it makes sense that gender identify tolerance has lagged behind some other things, because when its fully realized and embraced its kind of right in your face.

The question is what's necessary for Jenner to feel like herself, and Tebow would probably say the same thing about himself.

Jenner, when he identified as a man, but felt more comfortable in women's clothing, always wore a man's outer clothing when competing or engaging in publicity related to his competitions.

Tebow felt that his religious expression was more important than the venue - through prayer on the field and through those eye-black patches.

Jenner has hid his gender for a long time, and as he progresses through surgery (there's no way to hide the breasts and the facial reconstruction), that becomes impossible. It becomes a story because of who she was. She's not forcing this issue.

No one expects Tebow to hide his religious beliefs. But he chooses to interrupt a football game to express them.

[heybrad]

But he chooses to interrupt a football game to express them.I'm curious as to how kneeling down for a quick prayer is interrupting the game? He doesn't stop the game or ask anybody to stop what they're doing. It's no different than the guy who spikes the ball, does a quick dance or Randy Moss pretending to drop his pants and crap on the goal post.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, that was a strange statement. What exactly is he "interrupting"?

[Logan]

Yeah, that was a strange statement. What exactly is he "interrupting"?

Not to mention that there's been plenty of people who have taken a knee or pointed to the sky before, while, and after Tebow played all with no complaints.

[Solecismic]

I'm curious as to how kneeling down for a quick prayer is interrupting the game? He doesn't stop the game or ask anybody to stop what they're doing. It's no different than the guy who spikes the ball, does a quick dance or Randy Moss pretending to drop his pants and crap on the goal post.

http://media.al.com/press-register-sports/photo/tim-tebow-facial-bible-versesjpg-91f82552594965f7_medium.jpg

http://www.someblogsite.com/images/tebow-heb12.jpg

https://ronepraisehouston.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/image-custom.jpg

http://cdn.na16.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Tebow-eye-black.jpg

While I'm not one to defend Randy Moss's bathroom habits, I think Tebow takes all of this to a different level.

[NobodyHere]

Not to mention that there's been plenty of people who have taken a knee or pointed to the sky before, while, and after Tebow played all with no complaints.

Well except that one muslim guy who was flagged for it.

Chiefs Safety Husain Abdullah Flagged For Muslim-Prayer TD Celebration (http://deadspin.com/chiefs-safety-husain-abdullah-flagged-for-prostrating-a-1640628615)

[ISiddiqui]

Solecismic: How is that interrupting anything again? I'm sorry, but I think you just made your point worse rather than better.

[NobodyHere]

How'd this thread get thread-jacked so quickly?

[heybrad]

Some guys put their area codes. Is that interrupting?

[cartman]

Solecismic: How is that interrupting anything again? I'm sorry, but I think you just made your point worse rather than better.

Because it is something that is constant, rather than occurring after a specific on-field event?

[TCY Junkie]

I thought it committed suicide not happy with life.

[heybrad]

http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/editorial/images/images/mdControlled/cms/2010/04/18/611316023.jpg

I always hated when Reggie Bush interrupted SC games.

[Radii]

what a fucking train wreck.

This thread... not the Jenner story. Good for her.

[Logan]

Maybe Jim is just trying to push conversation to the FOF board.

[Easy Mac]

You know Jenner isn't a Kardashian anymore because the name doesn't start with a K.

[TCY Junkie]

There is a woman sprinter banned because of high testosterone levels. Who do you guys think will win the women's 100m next time?

[AlexB]

Is it just me or is there a striking similarity here...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/familyguy/images/e/e8/Ida_Quagmire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100510195106

[NobodyHere]

Maybe Jim is just trying to push conversation to the FOF board.

I will not buy the next version of FOF unless it tells me what bible verses my players are putting under their eyes.

[saldana]

i cant believe this thread is 29 posts long and no one has said it yet...fine...i'll do it...

Caitlyn Jenner...would you?

[Solecismic]

I will not buy the next version of FOF unless it tells me what bible verses my players are putting under their eyes.

Fine. I'll get out of the item. No sense losing sales because I don't agree with people over something that has no effect on my life.

Anonymous participation in discussion has both its merits and, well, non-merits. I have no opinion over whether that's good or bad.

[tarcone]

Is the tuck rule in effect on that picture.

[cartman]

Is the tuck rule in effect on that picture.

Usually the point-of-no-return surgery is not performed until the person has lived for at least a year with their new gender.

[thesloppy]

This whole thing offends my sensibilities, and not based on anything to do with sexuality or gender. I feel like Bruce Jenner spent the last 10-20 years firmly establishing himself as an unlikable douchebag, and I think that should be the cogent point, regardless of his sexuality or gender, yet now everyone is suddenly hailing him as some sort of hero, while ignoring the fact that it's also yet another example of that clan making a self-centered choice and putting themselves at the center of attention.

I've got absolutely no issue with someone changing their gender and/or sexuality, but I don't think that decision automatically makes someone any kind of hero, and I sure don't feel like celebrating him as such. He killed someone less than a month ago, for Christ's sake. Surely there's thousands of "normal" trans folk who are making, or have made, this transition while dealing with a million more pressures of real life, who could wear that tag without any irony, and would make a far-better face for the cause.

[Chief Rum]

This whole thing offends my sensibilities, and not based on anything to do with sexuality or gender. I feel like Bruce Jenner spent the last 10-20 years firmly establishing himself as an unlikable douchebag, and I think that should be the cogent point, regardless of his sexuality or gender.

I don't think the decision to change genders should automatically make one any kind of hero, and I sure don't feel like celebrating him as such. He killed someone less than a month ago, for Christ's sake. Surely there's thousands of "normal" trans folk who made this transition while dealing with a million more pressures of real life, who would make a far-better face for the cause.

It's funny you bring this up. My first thought when I opened this thread is to wonder what the family of that woman who died in the accident with Bruce Jenner thought about him as a hero.

[EagleFan]

It's funny you bring this up. My first thought when I opened this thread is to wonder what the family of that woman who died in the accident with Bruce Jenner thought about him as a hero.

+1

[thesloppy]

Further, I have to imagine that plenty of trans folk aren't necessarily overjoyed that a killer, rich, white, Republican, attention fiend has been anointed as their hero overnight.

[Solecismic]

It's funny you bring this up. My first thought when I opened this thread is to wonder what the family of that woman who died in the accident with Bruce Jenner thought about him as a hero.

Oh, I forgot about that. Anyway, I think of her as brave, but not necessarily a hero. As an aside, on Saturday my wife and I were returning home from lunch. She passed a car on US-23 (four-lane highway) that was weaving and traveling unusually slow. I looked over as we passed, and there was a woman who was probably in her 70s pecking away on a cell phone.

[RainMaker]

I guess the thing I can't figure out is if this is for real or just for a new reality show. I know people say they wouldn't go through this kind of trouble for publicity but I truly think the Kardashians would murder their offspring for an extra season of their show.

[thesloppy]

I certainly wouldn't deny that it's a brave individual decision. Donald Trump has probably made several brave decisions in his life, but I don't think it should overshadow the fact that he's generally a butthole who deserves scorn rather than praise.

Additionally, I think the tenderness of the subject (despite the obvious magazine title) has caused everyone to overlook that as brave, unconventional, invasive and exhausting as the decision & process must be, this was an entirely selfish decision based heavily on some flavor of vanity. That's not a crime in any way, as critical as it sounds...I make selfish decisions based on vanity all the time, as do we all, but it's a fine line; I haven't raised a self-absorbed family of dipshits on TV to the detriment of global culture. I don't particularly want to give a vain doofus any sort of medal for continually chasing his/her whimsy on my time.

That said, the trans community seemed pretty willing to give someone like Chaz Bono the hero treatment for doing little more than growing a scraggly beard and occasionally appearing in public, so such a public figure as Jenner making such a public transition might absolutely be a wonderful thing to them for advancing visibility & acceptance, and I'm just being a (more than usual) cynical jackass. I can't deny it's got everybody talking.

[Dutch]

Further, I have to imagine that plenty of trans folk aren't necessarily overjoyed that a killer, rich, white, Republican, attention fiend has been anointed as their hero overnight.

I remember when she was a killer, rich, white, Republican, attention whore. How the times have changed...

[path12]

Re this thread: Man, I can't understand why so many people don't post much anymore.

[TCY Junkie]

Re this thread: Man, I can't understand why so many people don't post much anymore.

Hey path, how are you doing?

[Radii]

Anyway, I think of her as brave, but not necessarily a hero.

+1

There is a significant part of this story that can be viewed in a vacuum, that of a public figure coming out in such a public way. The interview that was done a month or so ago was very well done and from what I've read considered a very good thing for the trans community. There's hopefully a lot of positives on awareness and acceptance that come from this no matter what happened before or what happens after (thinking mainly of reality show exploitation as a likely shitty scenario).

[thesloppy]

+1

There is a significant part of this story that can be viewed in a vacuum

Therein lies my personal problem, I can't look at the decision/story in a vacuum, which I suppose is my problem rather than anybody else's, and I apologize if my rant offended anybody. It's doubly confusing to me, because I feel like the whole point of TS awareness/acceptance is to get to the point where we don't look at someone in a vacuum entirely based on their gender or sexuality, which is I suppose why this feels like some version of corrupting the cause rather than supporting it to my eyes.

That said, nobody elected me arbiter of anything, my struggles with gender & sexuality extend to about the length of my arm, and loudly stammering "but she's a jerk", in the middle of a discussion of deeper issues, certainly doesn't help anybody.