President of Spokane NAACP Misrepresenting her Race?

[CraigSca]

Is Rachel Dolezal, head of Spokane NAACP, white? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/us/washington-spokane-naacp-rachel-dolezal-identity/index.html)

Interesting.

[digamma]

I've always said that racial preference is a choice.

[Ben E Lou]

Last 50-55 seconds of this interview:

Raw interview with Rachel Dolezal | Spokane - KXLY.com (http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/Raw-interview-with-Rachel-Dolezal/33533466)

[Ben E Lou]

Ok. Better link. Start at 7:52.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oKRj_h7vmMM?t=7m52s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bhlloy]

I don't want to seem insensitive or make light of any of the issues involved - but that's clearly a white person with too much fake tan right? How did nobody notice this before?

[JonInMiddleGA]

WaPo seems to have just about dotted all the i's on this one

‘Are you an African American?’ Why an NAACP official isn’t saying. - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/12/spokane-naacp-president-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/)

[Ben E Lou]

The #AskRachel hashtag has been pretty awesome. Two of my faves...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">early childhood photos of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RachelDolezal?src=hash">#RachelDolezal</a> found <a href="http://t.co/6MNiUn8ltb">pic.twitter.com/6MNiUn8ltb</a></p>&mdash; Ofay Mayo (@blunted215) <a href="https://twitter.com/blunted215/status/609360526028709888">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How many books is this? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AskRachel?src=hash">#AskRachel</a> <a href="http://t.co/MF2Vsjwxvq">pic.twitter.com/MF2Vsjwxvq</a></p>&mdash; PyramidWorker #1 (@PhlyyPhree) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhlyyPhree/status/609230780380745728">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ben E Lou]

WaPo seems to have just about dotted all the i's on this one

‘Are you an African American?’ Why an NAACP official isn’t saying. - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/12/spokane-naacp-president-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/)
Joking aside, I'd say it's fully possible that this chick was in so deep that she actually believed she was black.

Interesting article about her hair (and the lecture she once gave on black hair.)

Rachel Dolezal Definitely Nailed The Hair, I'll Give Her That (http://jezebel.com/rachel-dolezal-definitely-nailed-the-hair-ill-give-her-1710899988)

[Logan]

Serious question that I'm scared to Google at work...are "white" people born in South Africa, who now live here, or have family from there, considered African American?

[Ben E Lou]

Serious question that I'm scared to Google at work...are "white" people born in South Africa, who now live here, or have family from there, considered African American?Hehehehe. It might not be easy to find, but somewhere out there is a recorded interview or something with an overly PC person who was trying to make some sort of contrast between black and white South Africans, and somewhere in there she said something along the lines of "white South Africans versus African-American South Africans."

[Edward64]

FWIW, I had a co-worker that was blonde, looked white etc. but actually a natural daughter from a black family. She explained it as some funny gene way back when.

That's obviously not the case here.

[Jukeman]

Its not out of the norm for a "black" family to have a "white" child.

[stevew]

99% sure I know her brother from college. I think he was pretty cool.


Edit-nobody would say he's anything other than white

[finkenst]

if Bruce-caitlin Jenner can choose to be a women, why can't she choose to be Black?

Or, is the NAACP so racist that they can't have any white people in leadership?

[Suicane75]

And why can't I have someone book me into a kennel? I'm a dog, a damn dog.

[Young Drachma]

I don't want to seem insensitive or make light of any of the issues involved - but that's clearly a white person with too much fake tan right? How did nobody notice this before?

Spokane isn't exactly teeming with black folks.

[nol]

if Bruce-caitlin Jenner can choose to be a women, why can't she choose to be Black?

Or, is the NAACP so racist that they can't have any white people in leadership?

Do a little reading and you'll see that the weirdness of this story is not coming from her position in the NAACP or as an African studies professor, but the lengths to which she has gone to create some alternate history for herself.

[Young Drachma]

if Bruce-caitlin Jenner can choose to be a women, why can't she choose to be Black?

Or, is the NAACP so racist that they can't have any white people in leadership?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Race isn't gender. Just like apples aren't tomatoes. Just like the moon isn't lollipops. Just like you aren't informed.</p>&mdash; BGD (@BlackGirlDanger) <a href="https://twitter.com/BlackGirlDanger/status/609233356392280064">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Because these white people and DuBois founded the NAACP. The NAACP has white members. Its okay to just join. <a href="http://t.co/4VqsiKMisY">pic.twitter.com/4VqsiKMisY</a></p>&mdash; Blair LM Kelley (@profblmkelley) <a href="https://twitter.com/profblmkelley/status/609385608532918272">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">things transracial actually means: -an adoption across racial groups -that's it -pretty much</p>&mdash; merritt death kill (@merrittkopas) <a href="https://twitter.com/merrittkopas/status/609453491543670784">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Jukeman]

How can NCAAP be racist when its ran and funded by "whites"?


Also "black" is not a race nor is "African American"

[Young Drachma]

Oh FOFC.

[cartman]

NAACP Statement on Rachel Dolezal | Press Room | NAACP (http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-statement-on-rachel-dolezal)

For 106 years, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has held a long and proud tradition of receiving support from people of all faiths, races, colors and creeds. NAACP Spokane Washington Branch President Rachel Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family, and we respect her privacy in this matter. One’s racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership. The NAACP Alaska-Oregon-Washington State Conference stands behind Ms. Dolezal’s advocacy record. In every corner of this country, the NAACP remains committed to securing political, educational, and economic justice for all people, and we encourage Americans of all stripes to become members and serve as leaders in our organization.

You know what they say about assumptions...

[Dutch]

if Bruce-caitlin Jenner can choose to be a women, why can't she choose to be Black?

Or, is the NAACP so racist that they can't have any white people in leadership?

Black Democrats are like...."oooookay, Caitlin's enough cracker liberalism support for one day..."

[molson]

How did this become a huge news story? Is this just her parents trying to shame her back to caucasian-town and the local and national media cooperating?

[Dutch]

How did this become a huge news story? Is this just her parents trying to shame her back to caucasian-town and the local and national media cooperating?

The parents actually have adopted 4 black kids...so I wouldn't rush to "Oh they white? Oh they racist" judgment. I mean, you should, it's popular, but if you want to live on the edge and in reality, you maybe shouldn't. :)

[Edward64]

There's probably a story why she did this and for so long.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's probably a story why she did this and for so long.

Yeah, and it appears to be another very public failure of our mental health system.

Race is secondary to this afaic. This is into "tell a lie long enough & you can convince yourself it's true" territory.

Or, you know, is it?

I mean, she seems to have been conscious of reality & truth enough to concoct a phony parental story complete with pics to enhance her fraud. And conscious enough of reality to try to make sure her siblings didn't mention her actual parents anywhere.

The issue that the NAACP has to deal with here isn't a matter of race in leadership, it's whether they're willing to run out a discredited & pretty much caught out habitual liar once they've learned the truth.

How they respond here ultimately reflects on the organization far more than whether they were fooled.

[britrock88]

Hehehehe. It might not be easy to find, but somewhere out there is a recorded interview or something with an overly PC person who was trying to make some sort of contrast between black and white South Africans, and somewhere in there she said something along the lines of "white South Africans versus African-American South Africans."

Reminds me of my first roommate in college. I certainly understand the whole context of "black" v. "African-American," but I was relieved to find out that he was from Barbados, so I could save 6 syllables if ever I needed to refer to his race (when would that have been? :p ).

[molson]

The parents actually have adopted 4 black kids...so I wouldn't rush to "Oh they white? Oh they racist" judgment. I mean, you should, it's popular, but if you want to live on the edge and in reality, you maybe shouldn't. :)

That's why I asked. If the NAACP doesn't have a problem with this why is it on CNN? Who is calling her out? The CNN article is all about the parents sharing birth certificates and other proof with the media. That doesn't make them racist, but they do seem to have a problem with it - and they want everyone to know about it.

[molson]

There's probably a story why she did this and for so long.

White Americans fully embracing other cultures is definitely a thing, it just doesn't usually go this far. But I've heard of a few instances of white Americans getting so wrapped up in Japanese culture that they basically present themselves to others as Japanese. It probably has something to do with how white American "culture" is a default and doesn't really exist as a distinct thing. So it can be appealing to feel like you're part of something more special and distinct, something worth valuing. (You can't really be proud to be white, and even being proud to be an American has connotations with a conservative militaristic American sub-group that you might not really associate yourself with, or in other words, its not cool to be proud you're American.) We've made up all these sub-cultures like southerners, liberals, fans of sports teams, or tried to re-connect with cultures of European ancestors, but it's not quite the same.

[stevew]

The Easterner : A Life to be Heard (http://easterneronline.com/35006/eagle-life/a-life-to-be-heard/#sthash.fC9aAokp.0sBn8dJP.dpbs)

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's why I asked. If the NAACP doesn't have a problem with this why is it on CNN? Who is calling her out? The CNN article is all about the parents sharing birth certificates and other proof with the media. That doesn't make them racist, but they do seem to have a problem with it - and they want everyone to know about it.

The context of the story seems to be questions that were raised about unsubstantiated (bordering on debunked given her lack of credibility at this point) claims about "hate crimes".

Now you can add potentially false swearing (in her attempts to be added to various local governmental advisory boards).

She's skirting the edge of criminal charges here, at some point that becomes news.

All of this stuff predates her family speaking up, it seems to have been what prompted it in the first place.

[stevew]

Yeah, reading some links off that first page. Seems to be a target for hate crime

[RainMaker]

Weird story. I do have to say that if you had told me she was black, I wouldn't have thought twice.

[stevew]

for the rest of my life - YouTube (https://youtu.be/_u-AKfb5MwQ)

[nol]

That's why I asked. If the NAACP doesn't have a problem with this why is it on CNN? Who is calling her out? The CNN article is all about the parents sharing birth certificates and other proof with the media. That doesn't make them racist, but they do seem to have a problem with it - and they want everyone to know about it.

As far as her personally, it's mostly people making jokes along the lines of "okay the hair stuff was pretty convincing, but there could have been other ways to tell she was faking it." My personal favorite was "You just know she was some person's black friend and now they're panicking."

Beyond that, it's just the whole NAACP factor where certain people like to imagine the organization as some sacred meeting of the best and brightest black leaders (rather than something like a local PTA or Relay for Life where any random person can join and participate as much as he/she desires) so that any failings can be projected onto whatever one thinks is wrong with 'the black community' as a whole.

Take the Donald Sterling thing last year: before he doubled down on his remarks, there was a pretty sizable contingent of "Oh yeah, well if Donald Sterling's a racist, how come he got an award from the NAACP then?!"

[Schmidty]

All I know is that I just woke up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

All I know is that I just woke up.

You haven't missed much.

[Schmidty]

You haven't missed much.

K

Night.

[cuervo72]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How many books is this? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AskRachel?src=hash">#AskRachel</a> <a href="http://t.co/MF2Vsjwxvq">pic.twitter.com/MF2Vsjwxvq</a></p>&mdash; PyramidWorker #1 (@PhlyyPhree) <a href="https://twitter.com/PhlyyPhree/status/609230780380745728">June 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh it's Spades. We always called them tricks. (I was like, "literal books? Books of the Bible? What "books" are we talking, here?")

[Radii]

My annoyance level with things in that image from lowest to highest:

-- I don't remember playing spades with jokers, do others do that?

-- How could you not have each suit sorted in descending order? The spades NEED to be sorted AQJ82 in his hand.

-- HOW CAN YOU PUT THE TWO RED SUITS NEXT TO EACH OTHER OH MY GOD. Black/Red/Black/Red! Seeing that physically pains me. I need to find this guy and teach him how to sort his hand.

[NobodyHere]

My annoyance level with things in that image from lowest to highest:

-- I don't remember playing spades with jokers, do others do that?

-- How could you not have each suit sorted in descending order? The spades NEED to be sorted AQJ82 in his hand.

-- HOW CAN YOU PUT THE TWO RED SUITS NEXT TO EACH OTHER OH MY GOD. Black/Red/Black/Red! Seeing that physically pains me. I need to find this guy and teach him how to sort his hand.

The 2 of Spades may be the 3rd highest trump card, pending on which rules they're playing by.

But yeah the colors should be alternated.

[Grover]

http://i.imgur.com/FGjzqUc.png

[Desnudo]

Gee, hmm hard to figure out...I think the better question that no idiot at CNN seems to have thought of is why does anyone care if a white person is running a NAACP chapter?

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1443653/rachel-dolezal.jpg

[CraigSca]

I think what propagated this was her checking "african american" on a city application to serve on a commission. Pair that with the fact that she's been reporting being a victim of hate crimes through the years, including a packet of mail that she received at her NAACP PO Box (with no postmark) and you have people start scratching their chin.

I guess you can ask Dolezal what she thinks about a white person running an NAACP chapter. Based on her changing appearance, I'm not sure she would be fine with it.

[jeff061]

Gee, hmm hard to figure out...I think the better question that no idiot at CNN seems to have thought of is why does anyone care if a white person is running a NAACP chapter?

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1443653/rachel-dolezal.jpg

As has been stated several times now in this thread, that's not the point of interest in this story. I don't see anyone protesting the fact that NAACP is supporting her. No, amongst other things, this women posted a picture of a old black man on Facebook with the caption that her father was visiting. That's an amusing read.

It's not a story because she's white, it's entertaining because of the batshit crazy things she did to propagate the perception of her being black.

I really see people reading this and chuckling, there doesn't seem to be much outrage.

[stevew]

Rachel Dolezal: Parents Outed Her Because Of Brother’s Sex Charge | News One (http://newsone.com/3122412/rachel-dolezal-says-outling-linked-to-brothers-child-molestation-case/)

I def knew the dude at center of this. Seems kinda weird

[BYU 14]

http://i.imgur.com/FGjzqUc.png

Okay, you owe me a keyboard :)

[Dutch]

Haha

[Grover]

Okay, you owe me a keyboard :)

Hahah! It was trending on Imgur and I could not resist.

[Ben E Lou]

Oh it's Spades. We always called them tricks. (I was like, "literal books? Books of the Bible? What "books" are we talking, here?")

My annoyance level with things in that image from lowest to highest:

-- I don't remember playing spades with jokers, do others do that?

-- How could you not have each suit sorted in descending order? The spades NEED to be sorted AQJ82 in his hand.

-- HOW CAN YOU PUT THE TWO RED SUITS NEXT TO EACH OTHER OH MY GOD. Black/Red/Black/Red! Seeing that physically pains me. I need to find this guy and teach him how to sort his hand.

The 2 of Spades may be the 3rd highest trump card, pending on which rules they're playing by.

But yeah the colors should be alternated.in order asked...

1. Everywhere I've played spades, in all/predominately black settings, they're called "books," but in all/predominately white settings, they're called "tricks." One exception: white high school athletes who learned spades from black guys tended to call them "books."

2. Using the jokers is also mostly a black thing.

3. In mostly black settings, the order is High Joker, Low Joker, Deuce of Diamonds, Deuce Of Spades, Ace of Spades, King, etc. (Sometimes the deuces are reversed in order.)

4. I agree on the black/red/black/red sorting. i don't know what 'hood that pic is from, but that foolishness would have been unacceptable in East Urban Heights. ;)

[murrayyyyy]

in order asked...

1. Everywhere I've played spades, in all/predominately black settings, they're called "books," but in all/predominately white settings, they're called "tricks." One exception: white high school athletes who learned spades from black guys tended to call them "books."

2. Using the jokers is also mostly a black thing.

3. In mostly black settings, the order is High Joker, Low Joker, Deuce of Diamonds, Deuce Of Spades, Ace of Spades, King, etc. (Sometimes the deuces are reversed in order.)

4. I agree on the black/red/black/red sorting. i don't know what 'hood that pic is from, but that foolishness would have been unacceptable in East Urban Heights. ;)

Only thing I would add is growing up, jokers were thrown in when playing 2 or 4 handed. If it was 3 handed, jokers in, red deuces out.

They are called books when it is a sure thing in spades (so most wouldn't count the 3 of spades as a sure thing).

[AENeuman]

I think this story going to go from amusimg to sad very soon.

[stevew]

I think this story going to go from amusimg to sad very soon.

I still converse with a bunch of people from college. Granted it's been like 20 years but we're all like "that doesn't sound like Josh". Who knows though. Maybe he's some pedo creeper.

[Grover]

HooBoy: Rachel Dolezal Sued Howard University for Discrimination in 2002 (http://jezebel.com/hooboy-rachel-dolezal-sued-howard-university-for-discr-1711460097)

This story is a gift and it keeps on giving.

[Edward64]

This story is a gift and it keeps on giving.

And more, add plagiarism.

Rachel Dolezal's Artwork Is Not Only Problematic, It Might Be Plagiarized (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/15/rachel-dolezal-art_n_7586972.html)
Aside from the glaring issues of cultural appropriation and deceit rooted in the images, there also appears to be some plagiarism involved. Twitter user Jolie Adams recently juxtaposed one of Dolezal's acrylic paintings titled "The Shape of Our Kind" with J.M.W. Turner's 1840 work "The Slave Ship." As you can see, the works are nearly identical.

Dolezal's version of the image constitutes the middle panel of a triptych, accompanied by the poetry of her biological brother and published writer Josh Dolezal. She makes no mention of Turner's work, although commenters on her blog certainly do. The first comment, posted by user isabelleduvall, reads: "No shoutouts to JMW Turner?" and others quickly follow suit.

As of publication of this post, over 2,000 Twitter users have accused Dolezal of plagiarism.

[Dutch]

Glorious. Well...good news...she won the law-suit now, bitches!!!

[JPhillips]

As of publication of this post, over 2,000 Twitter users have accused Dolezal of plagiarism.

Why is this at all relevant?

[Young Drachma]

in order asked...

1. Everywhere I've played spades, in all/predominately black settings, they're called "books," but in all/predominately white settings, they're called "tricks." One exception: white high school athletes who learned spades from black guys tended to call them "books."

2. Using the jokers is also mostly a black thing.

3. In mostly black settings, the order is High Joker, Low Joker, Deuce of Diamonds, Deuce Of Spades, Ace of Spades, King, etc. (Sometimes the deuces are reversed in order.)

4. I agree on the black/red/black/red sorting. i don't know what 'hood that pic is from, but that foolishness would have been unacceptable in East Urban Heights. ;)

This is funny.

[Young Drachma]

Dola:

Rachel Dolezal To Give First Exclusive Interview on ‘Today’ Show | Variety (http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/rachel-dolezal-today-show-interview-1201520222/)

Following her interview with Matt Lauer on “Today,” Dolezal will also give separate interviews with NBC News and MSNBC, sitting down with Savannah Guthrie on “NBC Nightly News” and Melissa Harris-Perry for MSNBC and NBCBLK, NBCNews.com’s African-American vertical

So umm..yeah. I wonder what they paid her and when the book deal is going to be announced.

[Schmidty]

I'm so tired of this world. Why can't people not just be nice, honest and kind without an agenda? Is that too much to ask?

[Apathetic Lurker]

I'm so tired of this world. Why can't people not just be nice, honest and kind without an agenda? Is that too much to ask?

You silly

[Schmidty]

You silly

I know. That's why I rarely see the sun anymore. There's no point.

Is it really that hard for people to just love everyone else? I don't get it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is it really that hard for people to just love everyone else? I don't get it.

An incredible amount of incredibly unlovable people wandering around.

Hell, no shortage of folks that would tell you I'm one of 'em.

So, uh, yeah ... it really IS that hard.

[Schmidty]

An incredible amount of incredibly unlovable people wandering around.

Hell, no shortage of folks that would tell you I'm one of 'em.

So, uh, yeah ... it really IS that hard.

I still love ya. :)

[Suicane75]

http://www.videoworthy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/buy-the-world-a-coke-560x292.png

[RainMaker]

How is this story so big? A narcissist involved jn activism is par for the course even if her nuttiness goes a little deeper.

[lighthousekeeper]

How is this story so big? A narcissist involved jn activism is par for the course even if her nuttiness goes a little deeper.

no one wants to miss out on the thrill of an awesome public shaming

[Ben E Lou]

Rachel Dolezal speaks on TODAY Show to Matt Lauer after NAACP resignation - TODAY.com (http://www.today.com/news/rachel-dolezal-speaks-today-show-matt-lauer-after-naacp-resignation-t26371)

[ColtCrazy]

Surely there's bigger issues to worry about. The media have already given her more fame than she deserves. Obscurity is the best punishment for her.

[molson]

This is all a weird merging of social media and news. It's something I'd read about at /r/quityourbullshit - a very entertaining sub-reddit in which people confront others who make bullshit claims on facebook, etc. (Like people who post a vacation or girlfriend photo that's clearly just something they found on Google images, or a photoshopped photo with them and a celebrity, etc.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Surely there's bigger issues to worry about. The media have already given her more fame than she deserves. Obscurity is the best punishment for her.

Bigger issues are frequently not nearly as interesting/entertaining as utter trainwrecks.

If an in-depth look at the global economy falls in the forest ...

[Abe Sargent]

Bigger issues are frequently not nearly as interesting/entertaining as utter trainwrecks.

If an in-depth look at the global economy falls in the forest ...

True true.


This is a local news issue that we've spent waaay too much time talking about. I so don't care.

[Edward64]

Saw some snippets of her interviews. Pathological liar, doubling down even though she's been caught.

[Apathetic Lurker]

+1

[Edward64]

Here's a consolidation of her statements. Should just stop her interviews and be quiet.

16 Key Takeaways From Rachel Dolezal's Interview With Melissa Harris-Perry (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/16/rachel-dolezal-opens-up-being-black_n_7598974.html)
In an interview with NBC's Savannah Guthrie on Tuesday, Dolezal said: "There's no biological proof that Larry and Ruthanne are my parents."

[dawgfan]

no one wants to miss out on the thrill of an awesome public shaming
I think it's more than that. It's not just the fun of watching a public trainwreck and seeing someone who has built a life based on lies have those lies collapse on them in a spectacular way; it's also brought up an interesting and valuable discussion on what exactly "race" means.

Clearly Dolezal feels like race is malleable enough that she has the right to identify as black. And given her history, she probably has more right to claim that status than most white folks.

But just as clearly there are many black folks that feel outrage at this, that there's no way she has had the depth of experience that blacks have had to justify claiming that status, that it's just another example of cultural appropriation. Dolezal can bronze her skin and kink her hair all she wants - there's no way she's had the kind of experiences that a darker skinned woman with a true afro has had, because the outside world sees them differently. At best Dolezal has passed in recent years as a very light-skinned mulatto woman.

[JonInMiddleGA]

it's also brought up an interesting and valuable discussion on what exactly "race" means.

Not to mention further highlighting the tragic absurdity of just how close common sense is to extinction in this country.

I'll buy that someone can experience a sort of cultural transference. Genetics, however, those aren't a "however I feel today" thing.

[Young Drachma]

She is going to ride this thing to a book deal and maybe a reality show come hell or high water. She is capitalizing on the timing of Caitlyn Jenner's announcement to play right into her audience. She is loving this moment as it validates her 20 years of delusions and finally she's getting the attention she wanted from suing Howard, to marrying and divorcing a black guy, to having her own black kids, to moving to the NW hinterlands claiming hate crimes to teaching Africana studies and heading an NAACP chapter.

She's going to parlay this into a book deal and speaking engagements. This is hilarious but I was wrong when I thought she had an agent. She's not listening to anybody right now, this is her playing from her own playbook.

[Solecismic]

OK. So she's mentally ill. At what point do we stop picking apart the story of a mentally ill woman and focus our blame on a media that has lost sight of what journalism is supposed to mean to a country starving for integrity?

[JonInMiddleGA]

... to a country starving for integrity?

Not sure whether "malnourished" and "hungry" are the same thing :/

[JonInMiddleGA]

OK. So she's mentally ill. At what point do we stop picking apart the story of a mentally ill woman and focus our blame on a media that has lost sight of what journalism is supposed to mean to a country starving for integrity?

part duex:

Media reflects the public, it doesn't create it.

There's articles about "the changing meaning of race" because the lunacy of optional genetics exists, it doesn't exist because there's an article.

[AlexB]

You have to have certain amount of admiration for anyone who can admit to lying but at the same time makes it sound as if she wasn't:

Some of it has kind of a little bit of creative non-fiction with regards to what happened

:lol:

[Young Drachma]

OK. So she's mentally ill. At what point do we stop picking apart the story of a mentally ill woman and focus our blame on a media that has lost sight of what journalism is supposed to mean to a country starving for integrity?

Not in a world driven by clicks. When the hell did the media care about integrity?

[Solecismic]

Not in a world driven by clicks. When the hell did the media care about integrity?

Before it was a world driven by clicks.

All the President's Men is a wonderful book, and the movie did a good job with it as well.

[Solecismic]

part deux:

Media reflects the public, it doesn't create it.

There's articles about "the changing meaning of race" because the lunacy of optional genetics exists, it doesn't exist because there's an article.

The Caitlyn Jenner argument isn't one for the media to decide. There are scientists who argue that there is such a thing as a female or male brain that can be in conflict with the 23rd chromosome pair. As such, and given Jenner's Olympic history and reality television show history, it's a story.

Media doesn't reflect the public these days, it tries to shape the public. In this case, it's trying to shape Dolezal into something she isn't to suit a political agenda that serves no one but the reporters themselves.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Before it was a world driven by clicks.

You're kidding yourself.

[Solecismic]

You're kidding yourself.

There was a heyday in there when editors had ethics and demanded that reporters do their best to examine all sides of a story.

The descent from that heyday has been so fast and so thorough that I can understand why we've forgotten that journalism ever even existed as a social science.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Media doesn't reflect the public these days

On that point we disagree utterly & completely. We are, socially, every bit as f'ed up as the media.


it tries to shape the public

The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[dawgfan]

I'll buy that someone can experience a sort of cultural transference. Genetics, however, those aren't a "however I feel today" thing.
Sure, but it's not really genetics that drives "race" other than those that drive appearance. I don't think it goes beyond superficial physical characteristics. I think the argument is that race is really about things like culture and perception, namely how others perceive you based on your race and how that shapes you.

That said, I think we're getting to the same position on this - no amount of identifying with and immersing herself in black culture can make up for not being born with the genetic characteristics associated with what we call "black" and thus not having that experience for much of her life as being perceived by others as black.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There was a heyday in there when editors had ethics and demanded that reporters do their best to examine all sides of a story.

Up to the point it served their interests. Whether those interests were social, political or monetary or a combination.

Whether that's the yellow journalism that sparked the rise in popularity of (then) mass media or as simple as a guy in a small town rewriting the phrases "pro-abortion" and "pro-life" to be "pro-choice" and "anti-choice" at every opportunity.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's a whole other factor to this mess as well: whether she's simply nuts OR if she's simply a con artist from the get go. Again, not necessarily mutually exclusive options.

The same comment I made about Jenner could easily be made here: that it's among the most damning & blatant examples of exploiting the mentally ill the world has ever seen.

I feel largely the same way about this ... EXCEPT that there's a legitimate chance that this gal ain't straight up nuts, she's just incredibly devious.

[jeff061]

Rachel Dolezal was in a SEX TAPE when ex-husband forced her to perform 'sex acts' | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3127173/Rachel-Dolezal-SEX-TAPE-ex-husband-forced-perform-sex-acts-camera-against-claimed-court-papers.html)

This whole thing is just entertaining for so many reasons.

[Solecismic]

Up to the point it served their interests. Whether those interests were social, political or monetary or a combination.

Whether that's the yellow journalism that sparked the rise in popularity of (then) mass media or as simple as a guy in a small town rewriting the phrases "pro-abortion" and "pro-life" to be "pro-choice" and "anti-choice" at every opportunity.

These days, I understand the criticisms and largely agree with them. And certainly, journalism has its roots in propaganda.

But there was an underlying theory that was practiced at daily newspapers for a time. I have a master's degree in journalism, believe it or not. We had required courses in ethics, in law, taught by professionals who understood these issues at a level far beyond anything we see today (our law course was taught at the Michigan Law School, under their standards).

In reporting classes, we were taught the importance of fact-checking (how to do it properly), and how to source material, and, only in extreme cases, to use "unnamed sources." Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee comprised a prime example.

Back then, editors built a wall between sales/subscriptions and the newsroom. Adjectives were all but banned. They lead to the biases you describe. Editorials were clearly marked and reporters reported. The idea that reporters have an obligation to guide their readers was considered heresy. Write top-down, let the editors decide where to cut it.

It really was a social science for a time. And then, the business model started collapsing. Around the time I finished my master's, newspapers were already condensing. CNN was the beginning of the end. Now, today, with even the cable news networks in a death spiral (they've gone to all opinion, all the time) and the internet rewarding speed over substance, reporting as a science is long gone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But there was an underlying theory that was practiced at daily newspapers for a time. I have a master's degree in journalism, believe it or not. We had required courses in ethics, in law, taught by professionals who understood these issues at a level far beyond anything we see today (our law course was taught at the Michigan Law School, under their standards).

And after spending more than a decade as a journalist in the field (2-time AP Stringer of the Year for Georgia, among other things) I know that very little of what's taught in the classroom translates into reality ... especially ethics courses.

There's theory ... and there's practice.

Don't get me wrong, pretty much all journalists try to apply whatever personal ethics they have to their work. But they're also all human, and the notion that they somehow mystically followed this hypothetical "code" barely resembles any reality I ever saw.

In reporting classes, we were taught the importance of fact-checking (how to do it properly), and how to source material, and, only in extreme cases, to use "unnamed sources."

Yep, that's still taught in practical fashion as well (afaik) ... except it's motivated not by ethics but by the litigious nature of society.

Write top-down, let the editors decide where to cut it.

We'll likely both agree that the shortage of editors these days -- actually honest-to-goodness working editors -- instead of spellcheck makes that pretty much a moot point today.

reporting as a science is long gone.

This comes back to the core of our disagreement. It was, perhaps, a science. There's certainly a best-practices model of doing most tasks, certainly a blend of art & science goes into doing it well. But I'd argue that it was never about "science for science' sake" but rather it virtually always applied, from the highest echelon to the lowliest scribe, to some personal end. Whether that was financial, philosophical, personal (ego), whatever it was.

Just as "all stories are local' so too "all motivations are ultimately personal".

[RainMaker]

I don't think journalism has gotten worse. I think we just have more people out there who can fact check things thanks to technology advances. Journalistic dishonesty is being called out more frequently.

In the past, the NY Times could defend Stalin's policies and downplay his actions and the deaths it led to. Now we'd have photos on Twitter of mass graves, people starving to death in cities, and first hand accounts all over the internet. You couldn't get away with it now, you could back then.

Clickbait isn't something new. Papers had to do unscrupulous things to increase subscriber numbers. There were always journalists with agendas trying to sway public opinion. It's just now it's easier to see how dishonest the industry has always been.

[EagleFan]

I have lost all respect for the world. This nutjob is being offered a reality show (and apparently a porn role was offered as well but that always happens when crazies come out of the woodwork).

[NobodyHere]

I have lost all respect for the world. This nutjob is being offered a reality show (and apparently a porn role was offered as well but that always happens when crazies come out of the woodwork).

Is transracial porn an actual category?

[Chief Rum]

This comes back to the core of our disagreement. It was, perhaps, a science. There's certainly a best-practices model of doing most tasks, certainly a blend of art & science goes into doing it well. But I'd argue that it was never about "science for science' sake" but rather it virtually always applied, from the highest echelon to the lowliest scribe, to some personal end. Whether that was financial, philosophical, personal (ego), whatever it was.

Just as "all stories are local' so too "all motivations are ultimately personal".

Meh. I generally agree with you, Jon, but as, like you, a former working journalist, I can tell you there were plenty of stories when it was "just a job" and I didn't care about the outcome. Just held to the same kinds of principles Solecismic is talking about, wanting only to get the story right.

Of course, I worked in a full newspaper structure, with copy editors and editors, and I generally worked city, fire and police, which is fairly straight forward. What you're saying definitely more applies to the Internet reporting of today, where as you say speed and impact are emphasized over accuracy, and editing is a long-lost theory of past practices.

But, fact is, I couldn't care less about those local stories I wrote, and I didn't have an agenda besides getting it right (and on deadline lol).

[JonInMiddleGA]

But, fact is, I couldn't care less about those local stories I wrote, and I didn't have an agenda besides getting it right (and on deadline lol).

Remember, I did say Whether that was financial, philosophical, personal (ego), whatever it was.

[Chief Rum]

Remember, I did say Whether that was financial, philosophical, personal (ego), whatever it was.

Haha for what I was getting paid, it was barely even financial.

[stevew]

Prosecutors drop sexual abuse charges against Joshua Dolezal - Spokesman Mobile - July 14, 2015 (http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2015/jul/14/prosecutors-drop-sexual-abuse-charges-against-josh/)

[TroyF]

Before it was a world driven by clicks.

All the President's Men is a wonderful book, and the movie did a good job with it as well.


I would argue that All the President's Men is EXACTLY why we are in the place we are today and that the press started changing fairly shortly after the book came out. Suddenly the news was the story, not the background.

When I was in college in the early 90's, most of my journalism student brethren were talking about how they wanted to "change the world like Watergate" The problem is Watergate is a once in a generation type of scandal. So what do you do when you can't uncover Watergate or when you have a great story that isn't getting enough attention?

A certain percentage are going to turn to shock reporting. You add the internet (as you say "click" and social media? Now we have a full fledged crisis with the news. We can't believe ANYTHING the news says at this point. Think of all the high profile cases the media gets wrong now. Not only that but they follow social media to find just the right amount of outrage to have. NBA owner convicted of not allowing blacks to rent his properties? (Hmmmm. . . not getting enough looks, we'll back off) Same NBA owner insults Magic Johnson? PITCHFORKS OUT, ATTACK. . . .

The problem is the public eats the crap up and at the end of the day the medias goal is to make money. They'll make it anyway they can. Fox will insult dems, MSNBC will rip reps. . . because that is their target demographics.

[RainMaker]

This is starting to get weird

Black Lives Matter activist, Shaun King, might be white - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-lives-matter-activist-shaun-king-white-article-1.2330658)

[JPhillips]

Shocking, but Breitbart got the whole thing wrong and managed to drag a family through the mud in the process.

[sabotai]

Race, love, hate, and me: A distinctly American story (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/20/1413881/-Race-love-hate-and-me-A-distinctly-American-story)

I normally stay far from Daily Kos, but this was written by Shaun King about the recent stories about his race.

[RainMaker]

Shocking, but Breitbart got the whole thing wrong and managed to drag a family through the mud in the process.

The articles I've read had photos, birth certificates, and police reports. The only response I see is this guys word which doesn't seem all that credible looking at his past.

[Ben E Lou]

Race, love, hate, and me: A distinctly American story (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/20/1413881/-Race-love-hate-and-me-A-distinctly-American-story)

I normally stay far from Daily Kos, but this was written by Shaun King about the recent stories about his race.

The articles I've read had photos, birth certificates, and police reports. The only response I see is this guys word which doesn't seem all that credible looking at his past.
Actually, from reading both sides of this, it looks like both sides could well be at least partially "right."

Breitbart discovered that the man listed on King's birth certificate as his father is a white man. The photos, birth certificates, and police reports that I've seen are all regarding that white man who is listed as Shaun King's father on his birth certificate.

King is not denying that his mother is white. King is not denying that the man officially listed as his father is white. King is saying that the man listed on his birth certificate is not his father--that his mom had an affair with a black man. In small town Kentucky in the 1970s (and probably the 2010s,) I don't have a hard time buying that a married white woman listed her husband as the father instead of a black dude with whom she had an affair. And I don't have a hard time buying that an internet news site didn't do DNA tests to determine if the guy listed as the father on the birth certificate is actually the father. *shurg*

[Solecismic]

I think the media would like to connect the Dolezal and King stories because it's a convenient narrative, but they seem very different at their core.

[NobodyHere]

Actually, from reading both sides of this, it looks like both sides could well be at least partially "right."

Breitbart discovered that the man listed on King's birth certificate as his father is a white man. The photos, birth certificates, and police reports that I've seen are all regarding that white man who is listed as Shaun King's father on his birth certificate.

King is not denying that his mother is white. King is not denying that the man officially listed as his father is white. King is saying that the man listed on his birth certificate is not his father--that his mom had an affair with a black man. In small town Kentucky in the 1970s (and probably the 2010s,) I don't have a hard time buying that a married white woman listed her husband as the father instead of a black dude with whom she had an affair. And I don't have a hard time buying that an internet news site didn't do DNA tests to determine if the guy listed as the father on the birth certificate is actually the father. *shurg*

What if he's lying though about his mother having an affair?

There's a special place in hell for people who throw their own mother under the bus.

[JPhillips]

The King family was hiding the truth, but the truth surely seems like the guy is mixed race as he's said all along. It's a little shitty that King had to go through this, but for better or worse that's the cost of doing business as a political figure. The rest of his family, though, shouldn't have had this played out in public. The mother, in particular, deserves an apology.

Everybody is so ready to destroy their political opponents that basic decency gets lost as a consequence. The same goes for the Duggar/Ashley Madison revelation and the coming dozens of political Ashley Madison cases. None of this matters.

[RainMaker]

Actually, from reading both sides of this, it looks like both sides could well be at least partially "right."

Breitbart discovered that the man listed on King's birth certificate as his father is a white man. The photos, birth certificates, and police reports that I've seen are all regarding that white man who is listed as Shaun King's father on his birth certificate.

King is not denying that his mother is white. King is not denying that the man officially listed as his father is white. King is saying that the man listed on his birth certificate is not his father--that his mom had an affair with a black man. In small town Kentucky in the 1970s (and probably the 2010s,) I don't have a hard time buying that a married white woman listed her husband as the father instead of a black dude with whom she had an affair. And I don't have a hard time buying that an internet news site didn't do DNA tests to determine if the guy listed as the father on the birth certificate is actually the father. *shurg*

Agree that it's a possibility. On the other hand he lied about being a victim of a vicious gang assault which was sort of the centerpiece of his life story as an activist. If you'd be willing to fabricate stories about your life, not out of the realm to think this is made up too.

[JPhillips]

He and others still say that assault happened.

[Ben E Lou]

The King family was hiding the truth, but the truth surely seems like the guy is mixed race as he's said all along. It's a little shitty that King had to go through this, but for better or worse that's the cost of doing business as a political figure. The rest of his family, though, shouldn't have had this played out in public. The mother, in particular, deserves an apology.

Everybody is so ready to destroy their political opponents that basic decency gets lost as a consequence. The same goes for the Duggar/Ashley Madison revelation and the coming dozens of political Ashley Madison cases. None of this matters.It would be great if everyone would play nice like that, but come on, we're adults here. That's not going to happen. That's not how the game is played. Consequently, once you put yourself out there as any sort of activist/politician, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you've chosen to have enemies, and you've therefore chosen to allow your life to be put under a microscope. And when you do that, you have also chosen to risk your family being embarrassed when the ugly stuff comes into the light. Whether you're Shaun King or Josh Duggar, you'd better make sure your cause is worth it to you.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that it should work that way. I'm arguing that it does work that way, and therefore, wisdom dictates that anyone wanting to get involved should count the cost.

[RainMaker]

He and others still say that assault happened.

It sounds like an assault happened. Just not over what he says it was about, not a gang assault, and not with severe injuries.

[dawgfan]

The same goes for the Duggar/Ashley Madison revelation and the coming dozens of political Ashley Madison cases. None of this matters.
A random celebrity or politician that gets outed in the Ashley Madison deal, yeah - that's gutter-level.

But a public figure that has made a name for themselves promoting "family values" and whatnot getting outed as a supreme hypocrite? I think that's different.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The mother, in particular, deserves an apology.


For what, being exposed as a cheating ho?

Don't do that shit, won't get called out for that shit.

[RainMaker]

It would be great if everyone would play nice like that, but come on, we're adults here. That's not going to happen. That's not how the game is played. Consequently, once you put yourself out there as any sort of activist/politician, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you've chosen to have enemies, and you've therefore chosen to allow your life to be put under a microscope. And when you do that, you have also chosen to risk your family being embarrassed when the ugly stuff comes into the light. Whether you're Shaun King or Josh Duggar, you'd better make sure your cause is worth it to you.

I don't even know if this stuff is bad if your activism is intertwined with your life. This individual built his profile around a fake story. It's fair to point out lies of someone when they are basing their activism on their life events that are fabricated.

For instance, if you were a politician running for office who was using a fabricated story about being in the military as a reason why you should be trusted on defense matters, you deserve to be called on it. If you're a rich politician fabricating a story about growing up poor to show that people don't need welfare or government assistance, you deserve to be called on it.

Credibility is paramount with this stuff. You can't expect people to take your positions and views seriously if you are a pathological liar. I know con artists tend to gravitate toward political activism, but I wish more people would be willing to call these people out on their own team.

[RainMaker]

But a public figure that has made a name for themselves promoting "family values" and whatnot getting outed as a supreme hypocrite? I think that's different.

I agree on this. But the people who are calling him out should not be complaining about the NSA, leaked nudes, or other privacy violations. Can't pick and choose who deserves privacy.

[JPhillips]

Dola:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that it should work that way. I'm arguing that it does work that way, and therefore, wisdom dictates that anyone wanting to get involved should count the cost.

Trust me, I get that it does work that way, but that's no excuse for participating in the behavior. That's just the way things work is a destructive attitude wherever it's found. King's racial background, Duggar's non-criminal sexual activity, etc. don't matter. It's just all Perez Hilton style bullshit.

[RainMaker]

Trust me, I get that it does work that way, but that's no excuse for participating in the behavior. That's just the way things work is a destructive attitude wherever it's found. King's racial background, Duggar's non-criminal sexual activity, etc. don't matter. It's just all Perez Hilton style bullshit.

If his race didn't matter, he wouldn't be using it in everything he does. You can't say that stuff doesn't matter when he's using it to push his activism.

Now if Shaun King was caught cheating on his wife or tipping back a few too many cold ones, I'd agree with you. That doesn't matter because they have nothing to do with his activism. But if your platform centers around your experience (which he gladly talks about any chance he gets) as an oppressed black man who was beaten mercifully in a hate crime by a group of angry rednecks and it turns out you're just a white guy who got in a minor scuffle at school, it's completely relevant.

[Dutch]

Dola:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that it should work that way. I'm arguing that it does work that way, and therefore, wisdom dictates that anyone wanting to get involved should count the cost.

I should probably caveat half the shit I say around here like this.

[dawgfan]

I agree on this. But the people who are calling him out should not be complaining about the NSA, leaked nudes, or other privacy violations. Can't pick and choose who deserves privacy.
Sort of. I'm not sure too many of the folks calling out Duggar for being a hypocrite were the ones actively searching the database for juicy names as opposed to simply reacting to the news that he was on the list.

For example, I have no interest in perusing the Ashley Madison database and I think it sucks that privacy has been compromised. But since I've also been made aware that Duggar was on that list, I feel no hesitation in calling him out as a pathetic hypocrite.