NFL-Week 12

[Thomkal]

Let's talk turkey! Or at least some Thanksgiving games...

[Thomkal]

changed

[Solecismic]

An interesting side-note after Brock Osweiler looked decent against the Bears last week. Osweiler is a fourth-year pro heading into unrestricted free agency.

If Jimmy Clausen can get snapped up minutes after his release, a quarterback with a real shot at being someone could get an 8-figure contract with relatively little experience.

[Atocep]

An interesting side-note after Brock Osweiler looked decent against the Bears last week. Osweiler is a fourth-year pro heading into unrestricted free agency.

If Jimmy Clausen can get snapped up minutes after his release, a quarterback with a real shot at being someone could get an 8-figure contract with relatively little experience.

Matt Flynn got $10 million guaranteed from the Seahawks based on less than 150 attempts worth of work. Unless he falls flat on his face Osweiler going to be looking at a lot of money this offseason.

[stevew]

An interesting side-note after Brock Osweiler looked decent against the Bears last week. Osweiler is a fourth-year pro heading into unrestricted free agency.

If Jimmy Clausen can get snapped up minutes after his release, a quarterback with a real shot at being someone could get an 8-figure contract with relatively little experience.

Charlie Whitehurst and Kevin Kolb agree with your sentiments.

[BillJasper]

Matt Flynn got $10 million guaranteed from the Seahawks based on less than 150 attempts worth of work. Unless he falls flat on his face Osweiler going to be looking at a lot of money this offseason.

I wonder how many times teams are going to get burned paying big for a guy with limited snaps? I remember when Buffalo got Rob Johnson from the Jaguars.

Rob Johnson (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Johnson_%28American_football%29#Buffalo_Bills)

On February 14, 1998, the Jaguars traded Johnson to the Buffalo Bills in exchange for the Bills' first and fourth round picks in the 1998 NFL Draft. Johnson was immediately named the starting quarterback after signing a five-year, $25 million contract with the team. First-year Bills' head coach Wade Phillips proclaimed Johnson's arrival as the start of a "new era" for the franchise.

I'm sure Cleveland will be all in on Osweiler, if he makes it to free agency.

[EagleFan]

I hate that I will end up watching the Eagles today. They are a dumpster fire. Players are starting to come out against the coach, there is one that has said he is milking an injury because he doesn't want to play for Chip Kelly again and it sounds like the locker room is starting to get divided into Chip Kelly supporters and Chip Kelly detractors.

I would have liked to see what he could have done as JUST the coach. He is a failure as a GM. His offense was fun to watch when it had play makers like McCoy, Jackson and Maclin but now has nothing close to that.

I HATE that I actually said to someone yesterday that I wish they had Tebow back; it would at least make the sports talk radio entertaining instead of depressing.

Okay, minor rant is over.

[bhlloy]

Nothing says "getting fired on the weekend" like getting blown out by the Lions on thanksgiving. Eagles are an absolute disaster and Chip seems to have no grasp of basic NFL strategy - like leaving a rookie no name CB on Calvin Johnson with zero help might not be the best idea

[Eaglesfan27]

Nothing says "getting fired on the weekend" like getting blown out by the Lions on thanksgiving. Eagles are an absolute disaster and Chip seems to have no grasp of basic NFL strategy - like leaving a rookie no name CB on Calvin Johnson with zero help might not be the best idea

The only bright side is I am hoping Chip lands on his feet at USC.

[BillJasper]

The only bright side is I am hoping Chip lands on his feet at USC.

I kinda wonder if he is trying to get fired? Walk away from the Eagles with a huge amount of cash, then go back to the college game and become one of the highest paid coaches in the country.

[MrBug708]

I'd like Chip to just come out and say that he wants to coach the Titans

[BillJasper]

I'd like Chip to just come out and say that he wants to coach the Titans

I'm not sure anyone wants to coach the Titans. :lol:

[MrBug708]

I can't imagine Chip not wanting to coach Mariota again

[BillJasper]

I can't imagine Chip not wanting to coach Mariota again

I don't know? Chip might be realizing that life is better at the collegiate level.

[MrBug708]

I don't know? Chip might be realizing that life is better at the collegiate level.

He hates recruiting and boosters.

[BillJasper]

He hates recruiting and boosters.

That is probably part of the "grass is always greener on the other side". He's probably found the NFL is chock full of its own unique headaches.

[wustin]

Time to start any quarterback and receiver(s) against the eagles from now on...

[EagleFan]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Glad I ate before watching that.

Kelly should not be allowed on the flight back home.

[stevew]

Romolicious

[stevew]

You don't see "leaping" called every day

[miami_fan]

Welp, here is another team looking forward to the draft.

[Radii]

Ugh, romo down

[JPhillips]

So the Giants have to win the NFC East, right?

[stevew]

Pretty sure Carolina is good enough to win it all

[bhlloy]

Damn, Romo clearly wasn't ready to come back. That was a really ordinary looking hit he took

[sabotai]

So the Giants have to win the NFC East, right?

Still a bit early for that. It'll point that way if the Giants beat Washington on Sunday. They'll have a 2 game lead with 5 to play.

[stevew]

Cam Newton looks like a superhero in this get up.

[Radii]

Still a bit early for that. It'll point that way if the Giants beat Washington on Sunday. They'll have a 2 game lead with 5 to play.

That'd likely do it especially since it would mean a sweep of Washington. The Giants do have a much tougher schedule the rest of the way with Minnesota and Carolina still to play if it gets/stays close between the two.

[Radii]

11-0!!! 14 yards rushing for Washington last week, 31 for Dallas this week.

[NobodyHere]

What are the odds of Chi-GB actually being a game tonight?

[stevew]

Damn, Romo clearly wasn't ready to come back. That was a really ordinary looking hit he took

I dunno, the dude got a full speed crunch on him. I didn't think he would get hurt but I'm not exactly shocked he did. A bigger guy would have murdered him

[Julio Riddols]

If Romo's collarbone was actually broken in 6 places, then it was crazy to put him back on the field this season anyway.

[Dutch]

If Romo's collarbone was actually broken in 6 places, then it was crazy to put him back on the field this season anyway.

Coach forgot to right-click his injury status before plugging him back in to the line-up....happens.

[NobodyHere]

I think that was the only time I've ever seen an offense get called for offsides.

[ColtCrazy]

Packers are an impossible team to figure out. Look otherworldly sometimes and completely lackadaisical others.

[NobodyHere]

And the Bears beat the Packers.

I'm just happy there was at least 1 entertaining game today.

[Thomkal]

Packers are an impossible team to figure out. Look otherworldly sometimes and completely lackadaisical others.

I'm hoping it will be the lackadaisical Packers that show up in Arizona in a few weeks thank you very much.

[MikeVic]

I'm hoping it will be the lackadaisical Packers that show up in Arizona in a few weeks thank you very much.

Just hope they play more video games. :lol:
Packers had players-only meeting, apparently over excessive video games | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/27/packers-had-players-only-meeting-apparently-over-excessive-video-games/)

[stevew]

It's probably a bit too early to think about a battle of 18-0 teams for the super bowl, but I do hope it happens

[bronconick]

This mustache is the best showing the Eagles had yesterday

http://i.imgur.com/T5eAHeh.jpg

[claphamsa]

This mustache is the best showing the Eagles had yesterday

http://i.imgur.com/T5eAHeh.jpg

i noticed the same thing....why would anyone allow that on their face!

[ISiddiqui]

Because its awesome?

[MizzouRah]

Totally awesome

[BishopMVP]

It's probably a bit too early to think about a battle of 18-0 teams for the super bowl, but I do hope it happensNot a chance this Patriots team goes undefeated. So many injuries on offense, and if we sneak out a win in Denver this weekend we'll basically have the division and a first round bye clinched.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Spencer Ware, KC's 4th string RB at the start of the year, will start for the Chiefs today. We'll see how he builds on his nearly 100 yard game with two touchdowns last week.

And how far in the doghouse is Knile Davis at this point? Guy must have really f'd up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If they don't start calling the push-offs on Sammy Watkins, it's going to be a long day at the office for the Chiefs defense.

[bhlloy]

Somebody needs to tell Bortles he can't throw the ball past the line of scrimmage, he's embarrassing himself

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Chiefs were smart enough to adjust. Maclin is pushing off now as well.

[NobodyHere]

The Colts QB situation is lending strong credence to the Patrick Ewing Theory.

[JPhillips]

Why are the Seahawks tapping their wrists after every big play?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Why are the Seahawks tapping their wrists after every big play?
I'm completely guessing here, but there was an article on espn.com during the week about how the Seahawks need wristwatches for Christmas to remind them that a game is 60 minutes long. I guess that's referencing the Seahawks blowing a bunch of leads in the fourth quarter this year.

[Vince, Pt. II]

So Thomkal - I'm not watching. What the hell is your team doing wrong and why aren't you guys killing the 49ers?

[Thomkal]

Cardinals better not lose with a backup QB starting and beating SF by 40 earlier this season.

[Thomkal]

So Thomkal - I'm not watching. What the hell is your team doing wrong and why aren't you guys killing the 49ers?

The defense is playing well enough for SF-stoppng the running game and now both Johnson and Ellington are hurt. It took the Cards about 10 plays to score the TD in this quarter, after getting to the goal line, and that was thanks to four SF penalties at or near the goal line. Gabbert is making long connections too.

[JPhillips]

I'm completely guessing here, but there was an article on espn.com during the week about how the Seahawks need wristwatches for Christmas to remind them that a game is 60 minutes long. I guess that's referencing the Seahawks blowing a bunch of leads in the fourth quarter this year.

That makes sense. Thanks.

[MizzouRah]

From here on out it's GO CAROLINA!

[Radii]

What the fuck is that roughing penalty?

[Radii]

From here on out it's GO CAROLINA!

I approve!

[kingfc22]

The officiating in the AZ/SF game is beyond comical. From the very beginning when they couldn't figure out what down it was for about 5 minutes to this latest "roughing the passer".

[bhlloy]

Morelli's crew is having about as bad a game as I've ever seen a refereeing crew have. From right at the beginning when they forgot which down it was and took 3+ minutes to figure it out. 49ers will have some legit gripes if they lose this one.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some big extra point misses today. You'd think these kickers would have this figured out by now.

[claphamsa]

oooooops

[Abe Sargent]

Seahawks and Steelers have been a strong game all day long

[Dutch]

Some big extra point misses today. You'd think these kickers would have this figured out by now.

I guess I like the added dynamic, but overall, I really don't want to see teams matching TD for TD only to have one team win because the stupid kicker can't make the stupid extra-point.

[claphamsa]

I guess I like the added dynamic, but overall, I really don't want to see teams matching TD for TD only to have one team win because the stupid kicker can't make the stupid extra-point.

i feel the same way about all kicks....just cut it out. 2 points 100% of the time, and score or punt.

[Thomkal]

whew! Cards were very lucky to win that game-penalties played a very big part-kept at least two drives in which they ended up scoring alive.

[Thomkal]

Morelli's crew is having about as bad a game as I've ever seen a refereeing crew have. From right at the beginning when they forgot which down it was and took 3+ minutes to figure it out. 49ers will have some legit gripes if they lose this one.

yeah I couldn't believe they couldn't figure out the downs-definitely not a banner moment-hope this group doesn't do any playoff games. And even as a diehard Cards fan I didn't see any roughing the passer. RedZone didn't show a lot of replays so couldn't see if Palmer was hit in the head by the SF's player's helmet. They almost have to call that this year if it happens.

[Thomkal]

season over for Graham-will have surgery on patellar tendon. Really thought he was going to have a big season.

[Thomkal]

oh almost forgot this-I thought Palmer had hurt himself celebrating his TD run-thank god he just slipped.

[Thomkal]

not watching game, is it snowing in Denver?

[cuervo72]

It is. And so far you're not missing much. (7-0 Pats already.)

[Thomkal]

It is. And so far you're not missing much. (7-0 Pats already.)


yeah! (to the snow that is not the Pats lead)

[cuervo72]

It's really only flurries, but nice to see nonetheless.

[MizzouRah]

I approve!

Seriously.. I want a Cam Newton jersey for Christmas!!!

[Dutch]

i feel the same way about all kicks....just cut it out. 2 points 100% of the time, and score or punt.

Or just make TD's worth 7 points, FG's worth 3, and Safeties worth 2. If both team's score 4 TD's and 2 FG's during the game then go to overtime.

[Abe Sargent]

lets go broncos

[Abe Sargent]

Blast it Osweiler!

I want all of the Qbs in the league with one syllable last names that begin with "B" as their first name to succeed - Brock, Blaine, and Blake.

[Solecismic]

Some of you would probably enjoy my ex-father-in-law, who told my son on Thankgiving that the Pats were a bunch of cheaters and former Michigan quarterback (my son lives in Ann Arbor) and his favorite player, Tom Brady, is a cry-baby for appealing his suspension.

Guess who's getting a Brady jersey for Christmas? Hint, it's not the so-and-so who lives in Kansas City.

I got myself a Bears jersey so my wife and I can match when we watch her team.

I know it's silly, and I'd never wear one in public, but every few years I get a different team's jersey with "Solecismic" on it.

[EagleFan]

I have been an major jinx to players the past couple weeks with players getting serious injuries when I have picked them for draft kings. I have Brady and Gronk tonight, so I apologize to Pats fans if my jinx continues and to the other AFC teams, you're welcome.

[EagleFan]

How stupid was that by Miller? Idiotic move.

[SirFozzie]

You got to know when to bolden... (humming the Gambler)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Chiefs are in a really good spot now. Have tiebreaker head-to-head over Pittsburgh, Houston, and Buffalo with two games still against the Raiders to decide that tiebreaker.

[Solecismic]

This is a surprisingly dreadful game to watch, given the 18-2 combined record of these teams. Could go either way, but not because anyone outplayed anyone.

[jeff061]

Patriots playing with a bunch of backups, they looked bad last week to. I don't know how they are even able to stay competitive.

[jeff061]

And now Gronk. Seriously. This is almost comical.

[EagleFan]

They could have made it to the two minute warning and forced Denver to use their timeout... and not have gotten Gronk hurt if they ran the ball those first two plays.

[jeff061]

They are up by 4. You play to score. Pats can't run the ball worth a damn this year.

[EagleFan]

They are up by 4. You play to score.

You play to win. Two runs makes it 3rd down at the two minute warning with Denver out of timeouts. A safe play on 3rd down either gets the first or lead to a punt giving Denver the ball with about 1:15 left, no timeouts and their backup QB in the game.

[EagleFan]

They really need Gronk for this next drive. Who does Brady have left to throw to?

[kingfc22]

Love watching officials decide games today.

[EagleFan]

Crap, this means the Eagles may get to play a pissed off Brady next week.

[miami_fan]

Semi serious question. Given the injuries that have been going against the Pats, do you just take the L here instead of running the risk that Brady is the next Pats player to get injured?

[jeff061]

Pats are going to be one and done if they can't get healthy.

[cuervo72]

Crap, this means the Eagles may get to play a pissed off Brady next week.

The Eagles would lose to a Brady doped up on nitrous.

[miami_fan]

This is now a weekly occurrence. I am confused about the rules.

[EagleFan]

The Eagles would lose to a Brady doped up on nitrous.

Yeah but a pissed off Brady means about a 60 point loss.

[kingfc22]

This is now a weekly occurrence. I am confused about the rules.

So are the ones paid to officiate the games.

[EagleFan]

This is now a weekly occurrence. I am confused about the rules.

I don't even know what the rule is in this case but if the clock doesn't actually stop like a timeout they shouldn't call it a timeout.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is now a weekly occurrence. I am confused about the rules.
You mean the "excess timeout"? From what I can tell, that was applied correctly.

[Solecismic]

Those certainly were four critical calls in the fourth quarter - all went for the Broncos. It's kind of fun seeing Brady all amped up. He lives for this stuff.

[jeff061]

I assumed it would be a delay of game penalty on Denver or something. They are charged a timeout if they have one, but nothing if they don't?

[SirFozzie]

for 2nd injury timeout, it's a penalty

[jeff061]

I mean, I never ever blame the refs. But this has been a tough one. That was a non call holding there.

[EagleFan]

That was a lousy set of plays to start OT.

[EagleFan]

and then there was one.

[jeff061]

Checks in the mail refs.

[NobodyHere]

A good ending to a good extended weekend of football.

I'm not counting Browns-Ravens as a game.

[Abe Sargent]

Yay Broncos!

[Julio Riddols]

That was a hell of a game. Pats are hurting pretty bad right now.

[Radii]

and then there was one.

INDEED.

[Abe Sargent]

Yay Panthers!

[Julio Riddols]

I have been an major jinx to players the past couple weeks with players getting serious injuries when I have picked them for draft kings. I have Brady and Gronk tonight, so I apologize to Pats fans if my jinx continues and to the other AFC teams, you're welcome.

Weird

[TroyF]

Checks in the mail refs.


As a Broncos fan:

1) Yes, the reffing was horrible for most of the night. Last week I watched a Broncos game where the Broncos were penalized 8 times and the Bears did not have a single call against them. This included a late hit on Brock which was eerily similar to the one the Broncos got called on Brady tonight. (no complaints, it was)

Overall, the holding call was wrong, there should have been a running into the punter on Denver earlier in the game, There were other calls as well.

Denver had a few that should have went their way as well. On one of the Brady TD passes, Miller was hooked to the ground. A clear holding not called.

2) The Patriots, even with the ridiculous calls were simply outplayed for most of the night. They made some huge plays when they needed them, but overall, the stats were heavily in favor of Denver for most of the night. 433 yards to 301 yards, 179 yards rushing to 39 yards, 2-13 on third downs, the two QB's were identical in completion percentage. At the start of the game, I take that all day and all night.

3) Unlike usual, Beli and Brady really blew the game management. Why were they throwing so much? Run multiple times, force Denver to use the timeouts. Really, really poor.

4) I hope Gronk is OK.

5) I'm glad the Patriots will not go 16-0 again. Really glad.

6) Thomas was terrible for most of the game. If he'd caught the balls he should have, this thing probably never needs a comeback.

[miami_fan]

You mean the "excess timeout"? From what I can tell, that was applied correctly.

I guess, but wasn't the "excess timeout" the same as an official's timeout for injury or is it not up to an official to take timeout for injury at the end of the game?

If it was applied correctly, it just seems like the proper application of a bad rule.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I guess, but wasn't the "excess timeout" the same as an official's timeout for injury or is it not up to an official to take timeout for injury at the end of the game?

If it was applied correctly, it just seems like the proper application of a bad rule.
As I understand it, there's no officials' timeout for injury in the final two minutes of a half. In the final two minutes, if a player gets injured and his team has timeouts, they're charged one of them. If the team is out of timeouts, they're charged an "excess timeout," which is apparently a very specific and distinct term. The rulebook states that the clock then starts on the referee's ready-to-play signal after an excess timeout. That's how it was applied in the game, so they did it properly. I won't take a stance here on whether it's a good rule or a bad rule, but it's one that the officials got right without question.

[TroyF]

IE Refs:

There was an offsetting call on the Pats in the first half.

Beyond that, the Broncos had played 239 plays, 93 minutes and 2 seconds without a penalty being called on the opposing team.

I guess everyone else was perfect against the Broncos somehow.

Doesn't change the horrible call at the end, but the Patriots are not the only team who has been screwed by the refs this year.

By the way, didn't the Patriots WR give himself up with 5 seconds left when he fell down out of bounds. . . I think the clock should have kept rolling. . . :)

[jeff061]

Oh without a doubt. As bad as they were this game they were worse last week. The inadvertent whistle, the fact it happened and then blowing the spot, was even worse than the blown call to end that game.

I think the refs played more of a deciding factor in this one though.

[Pumpy Tudors]

So I see a million people posting on Facebook that the refs gave the game to the Broncos, and I just want to get it cleared up for me. Is that entirely about the holding call on Chung in the end zone, or are there other calls that are causing the uproar? I ask because among fans of all teams in all sports, there's kind of a "boy who cried wolf" thing going on, so I don't really know how much of it is truly serious?

I guess I also ask because I do think the hold was a correct call, so if that's the problem, then I'll fully accept being the only fan in the world who seems to agree with the call. I'm fine with that. I'm also the only person in the world who's eaten two batteries and bowled a perfect game 35 years apart. Ain't nothin' wrong with being the only one on my island.

[Kodos]

This has been the best weekend of football in a lonnnnnnnnng time. So many good results!

[Galaril]

On that holding call it was 2nd and goal at the 7 before the call. I agree it was quaestioable at best. So even after the call they started 1st and goal at the 4 ! The next play was a pass completion buried in the endzone 8 yards in the back. The penalties did not decide this one at all.Regardless props to not only the Broncos but the boys in NE Blu as they played there asses off with all the injuries on the road. Also hope that he Gronk is ok.

[Kodos]

I thought the hold was a hold too.

[TroyF]

So I see a million people posting on Facebook that the refs gave the game to the Broncos, and I just want to get it cleared up for me. Is that entirely about the holding call on Chung in the end zone, or are there other calls that are causing the uproar? I ask because among fans of all teams in all sports, there's kind of a "boy who cried wolf" thing going on, so I don't really know how much of it is truly serious?

I guess I also ask because I do think the hold was a correct call, so if that's the problem, then I'll fully accept being the only fan in the world who seems to agree with the call. I'm fine with that. I'm also the only person in the world who's eaten two batteries and bowled a perfect game 35 years apart. Ain't nothin' wrong with being the only one on my island.


Not a Pats fan, but the three I have heard are the holding on the long pass completion, the OPI on Gronk, the defensive holding call on Chung and the first down OT play were Brady was screaming for the hold. (I never saw a replay of that one to know for sure)

You take all of the names away from this and pretend it's an FOF game, it would be one you would have been horrified to lose as the Broncos GM. We outgained them by 130+ yards, had the ball for 10 more minutes, turnover battle was even, they rushed for under 40 yards and I LOST?

I think what I wrote above will be dismissed. The narrative is the Patriots were screwed and beat up while the Broncos were somehow healthy and got lucky. (The Broncos played a lot of that game without 3 of their defensive starters by the way, nobody will mention that)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Not a Pats fan, but the three I have heard are the holding on the long pass completion, the OPI on Gronk, the defensive holding call on Chung and the first down OT play were Brady was screaming for the hold. (I never saw a replay of that one to know for sure)
Sorry for snipping the great points you made after this, but thanks for helping clear up my question. To be honest, I think the OPI was kind of a weak call. I mean, I see what the officials were looking at, but I don't know is that's really meant to be called or not. As for the holding on the long pass, I was too busy screaming about the terrible defense to see the replays. Like you, I didn't see a replay of that OT play to speak to that.

Anyway, thanks.

[Galaril]

Not a Pats fan, but the three I have heard are the holding on the long pass completion, the OPI on Gronk, the defensive holding call on Chung and the first down OT play were Brady was screaming for the hold. (I never saw a replay of that one to know for sure)

You take all of the names away from this and pretend it's an FOF game, it would be one you would have been horrified to lose as the Broncos GM. We outgained them by 130+ yards, had the ball for 10 more minutes, turnover battle was even, they rushed for under 40 yards and I LOST?

I think what I wrote above will be dismissed. The narrative is the Patriots were screwed and beat up while the Broncos were somehow healthy and got lucky. (The Broncos played a lot of that game without 3 of their defensive starters by the way, nobody will mention that)


I agree the last paragraph nails the forthcoming narrative. I guess the playoffs will decide it than.

[Solecismic]

I watch with the sound off. Was there a lot about the muffed punt recovery at the start of the quarter? The others are well documented. I think you can call offensive holding on just about every pass play that takes more than three seconds. The OPI is probably correct as called, but you see that exact move on most contested out routes. The end zone defensive holding was odd (and 3rd-and-13 has much less chance of a TD than 1st-and-3 - different defense). The non-hold in OT was bad, but the Broncos were blitzing on every play and the offensive line was shot.

I'm sure Pats fans are ticked off. I'm sure Brady is ticked off. I'm not sure they can hold on to a bye without Edelman, Amendola and Gronk, not to mention all the other injuries on offense. And they've had a bye five straight years.

Philly might look done, but this isn't what the Pats' defense, which has been quite good this year, specializes against. Don't be surprised by an upset. NFLers have a lot of pride.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I watch with the sound off. Was there a lot about the muffed punt recovery at the start of the quarter?
Which one? The one that Denver muffed where a New England player stood up with the football, but they gave possession to Denver? As I remember it, the New England player took the ball away after the whistle. No, there wasn't any mention of that at all.

[TroyF]

I watch with the sound off. Was there a lot about the muffed punt recovery at the start of the quarter? The others are well documented. I think you can call offensive holding on just about every pass play that takes more than three seconds. The OPI is probably correct as called, but you see that exact move on most contested out routes. The end zone defensive holding was odd (and 3rd-and-13 has much less chance of a TD than 1st-and-3 - different defense). The non-hold in OT was bad, but the Broncos were blitzing on every play and the offensive line was shot.

I'm sure Pats fans are ticked off. I'm sure Brady is ticked off. I'm not sure they can hold on to a bye without Edelman, Amendola and Gronk, not to mention all the other injuries on offense. And they've had a bye five straight years.

Philly might look done, but this isn't what the Pats' defense, which has been quite good this year, specializes against. Don't be surprised by an upset. NFLers have a lot of pride.


Brady ticked off? Anything can set that guy off. I say that with some admiration and some hatred. He is like my ex wife, he can take a perceived slight from 30 years ago and have ir duel his rage.

He worked the refs all night, even in the first half when Denver didnt get a single call. No, I really mean that. Denver didnt get a single call in the first half of that game.

One interesting thing coming into this game. you know the fearsome Denver pass rush? Thee one leading the NFL in sacks and pressures? Heading into this game opposing offenses had been called for four holding penalties all year against it.

Sad part of this entire thing is I really did think the Pats were screwed in this game. I also thought the abroncos outplayed thm in just about every facet od the game. The more bitching from Pats fans about the refs without the other acknowledgemnt, the less poorly ai feel for them. (Not you Jim, or even anyone on here, talking anout other things i have reas)

[Solecismic]

Brady ticked off? Anything can set that guy off. I say that with some admiration and some hatred. He is like my ex wife, he can take a perceived slight from 30 years ago and have ir duel his rage.

He worked the refs all night, even in the first half when Denver didnt get a single call. No, I really mean that. Denver didnt get a single call in the first half of that game.

One interesting thing coming into this game. you know the fearsome Denver pass rush? Thee one leading the NFL in sacks and pressures? Heading into this game opposing offenses had been called for four holding penalties all year against it.

Sad part of this entire thing is I really did think the Pats were screwed in this game. I also thought the abroncos outplayed thm in just about every facet od the game. The more bitching from Pats fans about the refs without the other acknowledgemnt, the less poorly ai feel for them. (Not you Jim, or even anyone on here, talking anout other things i have reas)

What is it about ex-wives, anyway? Oh, well.

Yeah, Brady might be one of those guys who uses anything and everything. He gets a free pass from me because, well, Michigan. And a special pass because of the ball thing and Goodell.

Funny how football works - it really does hinge on a handful of plays. Especially at this level. It was a badly played game, and Denver dominated large chunks of it (time of possession was absurd). But you hate to see a striped shirt on any of those key plays, either way.

[TroyF]

Funny how football works - it really does hinge on a handful of plays. Especially at this level. It was a badly played game, and Denver dominated large chunks of it (time of possession was absurd). But you hate to see a striped shirt on any of those key plays, either way.

Every single person on this board know how much I get pissed off at horrible officiating. The Patriots were robbed at the end of the game. They also got lucky with some major errors last week. (Not just talking about the final play either)

I havent read the entire thread, so if it was brought up before, I apologize. Raiders vs Titans yesterday. Raiders 4th and 8 throw the ball deep into the end zone on the left hand side of the field, incomplete, game over. Only it wasn't. On the right hand side of the field therefs called defensive holding with even less contact than on Thomas. Raiders get the ball back and win the game.

The NFL officiating has been terrible this year. They cannot even get obvious calls correct, much less the 60/40 ones they are supposed to.

[Vince, Pt. II]

If you want to be disappointed, check out the 49er game. I've only seen the awful roughing the passer call, but everywhere I've read (including non-49er fan sources) says that it was one of the worse-officiated games they've seen this season.

[Thomkal]

Thank you Broncos! (sorry Pats fans)

[QuikSand]

everywhere I've read ... says that FILL IN BLANK HERE was one of the worse-officiated games they've seen this season.

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?

[cartman]

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?

There has been quite a bit of turnover in the officiating ranks. I think I saw a number that 30% have been in the NFL for only one or two years.

[Thomkal]

If you want to be disappointed, check out the 49er game. I've only seen the awful roughing the passer call, but everywhere I've read (including non-49er fan sources) says that it was one of the worse-officiated games they've seen this season.

I still have not seen enough replays to see if there was helmet to helmet contact. If there was, it is my understanding they have to call it no matter how incidental it was. But I can understand why 49'ers fans are upset-both with that call, and about 4 calls in a row against them when the Cards were at the goal line in the 3rd quarter. Whomever was responsible for keeping track of the downs early in the game should be suspended for a game. There was no reason for the confusion, and it was almost comical with how long it took to figure it out.

[jeff061]

I won't speak for games I haven't watched, so this is anecdotal, I rarely watch games that aren't Pats games. The last 2 Pats games are easily top 5 of worse officiated games I've seen.

Despite my rantings in this thread, I'm generally not one to complain about bad calls, goes with the sport. Hell, to this day I'm in full support of getting rid of instant replay. But these have been bad. Last week was a lack of understanding/enforcing simple rules(run out of bounds and run the clock?) and an "inadvertent whistle" to negate a likely TD, yet was then spotted at the spot of catch despite whistle clearly being blown in the air. Clueless.

Yesterdays game was refs asserting themselves by throwing flags on clean plays that also happened to be critical to the game. The type of plays that make the sport great. Unless they are flagrant you let them play, that's something I'd strongly state even if it helped the Pats. Winding seconds, both teams need to make a game defining play to win, unless someone is getting mugged keep the damn flag in your pocket.

[Atocep]

Yesterdays game was refs asserting themselves by throwing flags on clean plays that also happened to be critical to the game. The type of plays that make the sport great. Unless they are flagrant you let them play, that's something I'd strongly state even if it helped the Pats. Winding seconds, both teams need to make a game defining play to win, unless someone is getting mugged keep the damn flag in your pocket.

Games need to be officiated the same on the first play as the last. Otherwise the refs are deciding the game in a different way.

The problem with NFL officiating right now is that there is no consistency.

[jeff061]

Fine, if given the option I say let them play it looser the entire game.

[miami_fan]

The Dolphins have fired their OC and promoted the QB coach to OC. Yeah, they promoted the guy who can't convince Tannehill to throw the ball past the first down marker on third down.

Pitiful.

[QuikSand]

The Dolphins have fired their OC and promoted the QB coach to OC. Yeah, they promoted the guy who can't convince Tannehill to throw the ball past the first down marker on third down.

Pitiful.

Not sure what move(s) they could realistically make right now would be of any value. Could you just fly in an outsider and launch a new system for next week? I doubt it. I think you're stuck with the current flight plan, but having a few more heads roll along the way seems fine to me.

[molson]

It's always fun to listen to Boston sports talk radio when I'm back in town. Much emotional angry ranting about ref calls. I didn't hear anyone angry at Harper for fumbling that punt, which turned the game around. Nobody was personally offended over that mistake apparently. Nobody saying he should be fined or banned from the league. But these refs......the anger people have over those mistakes v. every other mistake that humans make in a football game or life in general is still just crazy to me. It's a tough job and I don't understand why anyone does it. Or where all the elusive "good refs" are, considering all of the actual refs in every sport are apparently terrible. If the regular refs are terrible, and the replacement refs are terrible, where are the people who could actually do this job? Do they exist?

[spleen1015]

Awwwwwwwwwwww, the wittle Patriots lost. We are injured. The refs cost us the game. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

If it wasn't for your DBs raping people up and down the field to win 3 SBs, we wouldn't have these dumbass rules.

Cry me an f-ing river.

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/files/2013/04/tantrum.jpg

[jeff061]

Like every other city wouldn't react the same.

Take your hands off your dicks and get over yourselves.

[molson]

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?

I think we just remember the most recent games. I'd bet if you looked back at the game threads here you could find hundreds of games and calls that were the "worst ever!"

[spleen1015]

Like every other city wouldn't react the same.

Take your hands off your dicks and get over yourselves.

http://images.medicaldaily.com/sites/medicaldaily.com/files/styles/headline/public/2014/09/09/crying-babies-need-be-handled-mentally-healthy-mom.jpg

[BillJasper]

The Dolphins have fired their OC and promoted the QB coach to OC. Yeah, they promoted the guy who can't convince Tannehill to throw the ball past the first down marker on third down.

Pitiful.

I'm thinking about starting to refer to them as "Cleveland Browns - Southern Office".

[Arles]

Tom Brady after last night's loss:
"I don't think I still quite fully understand that. Because their guy went down, they had no timeouts. And I don't know what the rule is. ... I thought when he went down there was a penalty on that team for having a delay of game. But I'll have to look at that this week. I don't know, there's so many frigging rules. There's so many rules now. We'll try to clarify it this week. But you're right, I was not aware that the clock would be running."

Tom Brady (Jan 10) after the Ravens playoff win involving their trick formations:
"Those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out," Brady said. "We obviously knew what we were doing and made some pretty important plays."

:D

[jeff061]

Ha, that is fair.

[bhlloy]

Speaking of Tannehill, is he the whiniest player in the entire league? Dude is always butthurt about something or other.

[Kodos]

Do you mean Tom Brady? He's constantly riding the officials.

[Julio Riddols]

If you want to be disappointed, check out the 49er game. I've only seen the awful roughing the passer call, but everywhere I've read (including non-49er fan sources) says that it was one of the worse-officiated games they've seen this season.

On the long pass that got the Cards down to the goalline, there should have been a delay of game called. The clock clearly ticked to :00 before the snap.

[TroyF]

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?


This year has been pretty poor. A lot of ridiculous calls and a lot of high profile calls that were simply wrong. the sad part is that a lot of these calls are affecting the post season. Imagine Detroit being 5-6, the Seahawks being 5-6 and Detroit controlling the tie breaker.

The problem for me isn't the calls last night. Defensive holding? OPI? Judgement calls. There will always be issues with those types of calls.

The calls I'm having the problems with are the OBVIOUS calls where either the refs didn't understand the rules or made a decision to to enforce then. Seattle bating the ball, the clock not stopping in the Buffalo game, the late hit on Brock by the Bears, the clock mismanagement in the Chargers/Steelers game. . . (for the record, the Brock late hit was not a judgement call, watch the play and tell me how that was a judgement call)

Those gaffes on OBVIOUS plays are making the other questionable decisions appear worse than what they are.


I think what you have Quck is two things:

1) The timing of these is what really seals the deal. Last night Von Miller was collared on a Patriots TD pass. You will never see a clearer holding if you watch every play of every game the rest of the season. It happened in the first half and I can't even remember which TD it is now because it happened in the first half. This leads me to #2

2) The announcers are starting to focus more on it and the plays they do focus on get people up in arms. Nobody bothered talking about Miller getting held yesterday. It simply wasn't mentioned. Gronk with OPI? That's a story. How many replays did we see of it? That's going to be ingrained in your brain regardless of who you cheer for. I'm sure everyone here can recall with pretty good detail the hold on Thomas last night. How many here can How many here remember the Miller holding penalty that wasn't called?

[Abe Sargent]

The Dolphins have fired their OC and promoted the QB coach to OC. Yeah, they promoted the guy who can't convince Tannehill to throw the ball past the first down marker on third down.

Pitiful.

Last summer, the Jags offense was reeling . It was ranked 31st in the nation and we downright egregious. We fired our guy and who did Gus hire? The OC for the 32nd ranked offense - the Raiders. A guy who had just been fired, and had been our QB coach role on our team a few years before. And you know what? Guy looks good so far. Good job Olsen!


It's just wonky how these things work sometimes, you know?

[miami_fan]

Not sure what move(s) they could realistically make right now would be of any value. Could you just fly in an outsider and launch a new system for next week? I doubt it. I think you're stuck with the current flight plan, but having a few more heads roll along the way seems fine to me.

I could get behind the firings if there seemed to be an end to the means. They fired the head coach and bypassed the OC and the DC to give the job to the tight ends coach. Four days later and before they even played a game under the new HC, they fired the DC. What changed? Seven games later and with only five guys left in the season, they are firing the OC. You gave the guy seven games to save his job while costing the team a possible(unrealistic for sure) playoff spot? If they are auditioning people for the future, then let them coach the rest of the season. Oh yeah, Coach Campbell about that strong running game that was going to be the basis of "new system". 9 carries 12 yards :rant:

[molson]

Gronk only had a bruise. That's ultimately more important for the patriots than the outcome of yesterday's game.

[sabotai]

Not a Pats fan, but the three I have heard are the holding on the long pass completion, the OPI on Gronk, the defensive holding call on Chung and the first down OT play were Brady was screaming for the hold. (I never saw a replay of that one to know for sure)

The Pats have been my AFC team since the 90s (unlike most Pats and Giants fans in this rivalry between them, I like both teams). So...

The only penalty there that was total BS was the hold on Chung in the endzone. Considering that it would have been 3rd and goal from about the 15 if it weren't for the penalty in a situation at the end of the game where their opponents needed a TD, that was a big one. The other calls on the list though, they were the right calls.

Holding on the long pass (4th quarter, 3rd and 11, 11:40 left) - The OL had his hands on the outside of the shoulder pads and had an obvious hold of them. He turned Miller almost as if to give the official in the backfield the best look at it that he could possibly get.

OPI on Gronk - He clearly gives a shoulder check and then pushed him off with his forearm as he makes his cut. Hard to see by the officials which is one reason it doesn't get called much (like a boxer who gives those short punches to the ribs while clinched with the referee on the other side...ref can't see it), but by the rule, it is OPI.

Watched the first play of OT several times on GamePass and I don't think LaFell (the intended receiver) was even touched by the defender until the ball got there. The broadcast never showed a replay of it, though. Unless he was yelling about some other player being held...

[EagleFan]

Speaking of Tannehill, is he the whiniest player in the entire league? Dude is always butthurt about something or other.

Do you mean Tom Brady? He's constantly riding the officials.

I thought that was Rivers, or maybe he just has that face that just makes you want to slap him so I just assume he is always doing that.

[BishopMVP]

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?I think it's also the overwhelming increase of camera angles and replays, as well as commentators criticizing refs more. I'm sure I'm affected by recency bias, but in the past when I've felt the Patriots were getting screwed I don't remember as much of a positive feedback loop from announcers.

I would be interested in seeing the numbers behind the point Cartman brought up. Most of us know the head officials, but I'm not sure anyone outside of maybe Dr. Sak can identify individual umpires and side judges who actually make the majority of the calls.

I do also think it's another thing we can blame on increased passing and spread offenses. What are the two most debated calls? Offensive holding during passing plays and PI/holding on downfield passes, especially because you have individual refs monitoring larger areas for longer periods of time. Usually on runs between the tackles penalties are easy to call and 90% of eyes were on it in real time.You take all of the names away from this and pretend it's an FOF game, it would be one you would have been horrified to lose as the Broncos GM. We outgained them by 130+ yards, had the ball for 10 more minutes, turnover battle was even, they rushed for under 40 yards and I LOST?

I think what I wrote above will be dismissed. The narrative is the Patriots were screwed and beat up while the Broncos were somehow healthy and got lucky. (The Broncos played a lot of that game without 3 of their defensive starters by the way, nobody will mention that)Shurg, it was under 100 yd difference until Hillman's TD run, rushing yards and thus T.O.P. don't mean what they used to (we put up 40 points while rushing for 56 yards vs the Bills, 30 points while rushing for 16 yards vs the Jets, etc), not all injuries are equal (The way NFL rosters are set up, when you get a run at one position it can kill you, and in our case Keshawn Martin and Johnathan Freeny should not be playing 95% of snaps), and most importantly saying the turnover battle was even is incredibly misleading. 3 balls hit the ground and Denver recovered all 3 (plus kind of another 50/50 call where Ebner came out of a pile with the ball - I agree the runner was likely down, but would've liked to see a replay.)

I do agree that it was an even game, and I hope the rematch is in NE, not Denver. But either way I would certainly favor us if Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Collins, Hightower, Ward, Ware, Williams all are healthy by then. As far as the reffing, it wasn't the worst I've seen, and we didn't lose because of it. I will say it was eerily similar to the lacrosse game I coached in the last year where I felt screwed the most. In that case, same thing, had a decent lead and as the momentum shifted and they started coming back we had like 11 straight 50/50 calls go against us. It's not necessarily one egregious call, but an accumulation of 50/50 ones (and bouncing balls) against you that feels like you got screwed the most because one call builds on another.

Overall, I'd say that game pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the two teams, both now and when/if healthy. Denver has an elite D, but we're a marginally better overall team.On that holding call it was 2nd and goal at the 7 before the call. I agree it was quaestioable at best. So even after the call they started 1st and goal at the 4 ! The next play was a pass completion buried in the endzone 8 yards in the back. The penalties did not decide this one at all.
Dude it went from 3rd & goal at the ~15 with no chance to call timeout and regroup to 1st & goal at the 4 (and presumably the Patriots leaning heavily towards stopping the run because Denver almost certainly should have run the ball there.) I'm not complaining about the calls that were made, but let's not pretend like that one didn't have a huge effect.I won't speak for games I haven't watched, so this is anecdotal, I rarely watch games that aren't Pats games. The last 2 Pats games are easily top 5 of worse officiated games I've seen.

Despite my rantings in this thread, I'm generally not one to complain about bad calls, goes with the sport. Hell, to this day I'm in full support of getting rid of instant replay. But these have been bad. Last week was a lack of understanding/enforcing simple rules(run out of bounds and run the clock?) and an "inadvertent whistle" to negate a likely TD, yet was then spotted at the spot of catch despite whistle clearly being blown in the air. Clueless.
I don't think they were that bad, especially if I can compare it to college games. The 2 sideline incidents last week were bizarre (as well as the Bills not even arguing), but I'm 99% sure they called the inadvertent whistle play correctly. When an inadvertent whistle happens as the ball is in the air the play is dead at the spot once it's possessed - if Buffalo had picked it off I think it would've been Buffalo ball at that spot.

The Dolphins have fired their OC and promoted the QB coach to OC. Yeah, they promoted the guy who can't convince Tannehill to throw the ball past the first down marker on third down.

Pitiful.
Fire whichever guy decided to only hand the ball off 7 times. (I'm not counting the Landry end-around or the end of half run.) I know the Dolphins only touched the ball down less than 21 once in the second half and Jarvis Landry may have saved me in fantasy, but it was a 43:1 pass/run ratio (and the one run occurred on 1st and goal at the 5.) Mix in a draw play.

[bhlloy]

interesting point regarding the Dolphins, because not running the ball was what got Philbin fired, they looked a million times better the next few weeks because they established the run and now it seems they have forgotten all about it again. No, I'm not a Lamar Miller fantasy owner, why do you ask?

[Thomkal]

And the dominos begin to fall: :(

Chris Johnson out indefinitely with fractured tibia - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000591771/article/chris-johnson-out-indefinitely-with-fractured-tibia)

[claphamsa]

feels like an insane number of people got hurt this week

[bhlloy]

The Browns have officially given up the ghost. I don't know if the Manziel decision was wrong or right but it's hard to say it's punishing him more than its punishing the team. Should have just cut him if they wanted to send a message

[BishopMVP]

The Browns have officially given up the ghost. I don't know if the Manziel decision was wrong or right but it's hard to say it's punishing him more than its punishing the team. Should have just cut him if they wanted to send a messageFwiw, someone mentioned he lied to Pettine about the video of him partying, so that could explain a little of it. But I do agree it's probably reached the point where it's time for the organization to move on.

Btw, the Matt Schaub "Pick 6" trend is a lot less shocking when you see the montage of them. That's a whole lot of throws off the back foot short and outside the numbers or to zone defenders just sitting there, ready to break forward at full speed.

[TroyF]

Bishop,

Honestly, this game really didn't teach me a lot about either team. About the only thing I learned is that Brock is very capable of making clutch throws.

Why?

Injuries. You weren't healthy and we weren't either. You had many guys on offense injured, we had a ton on defense injured. Our OLine was also beat up. Then you lost Hightower. Seriously, who knows what final form these teams will take in 8 weeks.

Patriots offense: Obviously, you were missing a ton of WR. Will all of them get back? Will Gronk protect one leg and get hurt on the other?

Broncos defense: I'll repeat what I said above. . . We were missing 3 defensive starters for a large portion of that game. One at each level. A defensive tackle, a linebacker and a starting safety. I know the narrative is that those injuries aren't as critical as the Patriots, but that's 27% of the top defense in football there. You will not convince me those injuries didn't have an impact last night.

Patriots defense: Hightower was a huge, huge loss. Collins is as big. Those two guys are huge.

Broncos offense: The Broncos OLine was already banged up and they lost another one during the game. This OLine, especially at the two G positions is hurting right now. Where did you hurt Denver last night? Up the middle. I wonder why. The Broncos will also have a different QB in 8 weeks. Either Manning will be there OR a much more seasoned Brock will be.

The Patriots are a GREAT football team. Don't take anything I say after this to say otherwise. . . but this is not like 2007 and hasn't been all year. The Patriots have had SEVEN games that were one score games in the fourth quarter. This includes every game they have played against a team with a winning record.

They are the clear favorites in the AFC, but I don't think this team is a juggernaut which can't be beat, even if everyone is healthy.

Last thing I'll say: Brady can get himself pissed of all he wants, it's completely classless of him as a player to say the refs gave Denver that game last night. What an amazing QB and what a first class douche bag.

[EagleFan]

Wow

[Abe Sargent]

Are you kidding me?

[cuervo72]

That's So Browns.

[wustin]

pats and broncos fan can argue all they want. It's a fruitless effort since the panthers are gonna win it all anyways.

[jbergey22]

Bishop,

Honestly, this game really didn't teach me a lot about either team. About the only thing I learned is that Brock is very capable of making clutch throws.

Why?

Injuries. You weren't healthy and we weren't either. You had many guys on offense injured, we had a ton on defense injured. Our OLine was also beat up. Then you lost Hightower. Seriously, who knows what final form these teams will take in 8 weeks.

Patriots offense: Obviously, you were missing a ton of WR. Will all of them get back? Will Gronk protect one leg and get hurt on the other?

Broncos defense: I'll repeat what I said above. . . We were missing 3 defensive starters for a large portion of that game. One at each level. A defensive tackle, a linebacker and a starting safety. I know the narrative is that those injuries aren't as critical as the Patriots, but that's 27% of the top defense in football there. You will not convince me those injuries didn't have an impact last night.

Patriots defense: Hightower was a huge, huge loss. Collins is as big. Those two guys are huge.

Broncos offense: The Broncos OLine was already banged up and they lost another one during the game. This OLine, especially at the two G positions is hurting right now. Where did you hurt Denver last night? Up the middle. I wonder why. The Broncos will also have a different QB in 8 weeks. Either Manning will be there OR a much more seasoned Brock will be.

The Patriots are a GREAT football team. Don't take anything I say after this to say otherwise. . . but this is not like 2007 and hasn't been all year. The Patriots have had SEVEN games that were one score games in the fourth quarter. This includes every game they have played against a team with a winning record.

They are the clear favorites in the AFC, but I don't think this team is a juggernaut which can't be beat, even if everyone is healthy.

Last thing I'll say: Brady can get himself pissed of all he wants, it's completely classless of him as a player to say the refs gave Denver that game last night. What an amazing QB and what a first class douche bag.

Yes but you have Peyton Manning coming back. Sadly, with his arm in the shape it is in he will only limit their offense. Unless, the Broncos make the very bold move of benching the best QB in NFL history they are limited come playoff time.

[wustin]

Yes but you have Peyton Manning coming back. Sadly, with his arm in the shape it is in he will only limit their offense. Unless, the Broncos make the very bold move of benching the best QB in NFL history they are limited come playoff time.

Don't recall Unitas, Brady, or Montana ever playing for Denver. Manning would choke it up in postseason like he always does anyways.

[jbergey22]

Don't recall Unitas, Brady, or Montana ever playing for Denver. Manning would choke it up in postseason like he always does anyways.

I feel pretty good about this list. Its unfortunate Manning couldnt play defense at the level he played qb or he would have more rings.

NFL Career Approximate Value (Weighted) Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/career_av_career.htm)

[wustin]

I feel pretty good about this list. Its unfortunate Manning couldnt play defense at the level he played qb or he would have more rings.

NFL Career Approximate Value (Weighted) Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/career_av_career.htm)

AV values longevity and it doesn't evaluate intangibles or post-season. That list has Brett Favre over a lot of players. Manning is arguably the best regular season QB of all time (winning 4 MVPs), I will not dispute that.

[TroyF]

Yes but you have Peyton Manning coming back. Sadly, with his arm in the shape it is in he will only limit their offense. Unless, the Broncos make the very bold move of benching the best QB in NFL history they are limited come playoff time.


it all depends. Remember how good Manning looked after the bye week against the Packers? Who is to say the Broncos won't need him again and that the rest proves good for his arm?

I still remember Bledsoe with the Patriots. They needed him in the AFC title game. If Brock continues to play well, I think he'll stay as the starter. There is a LONG way to go before the playoffs. How will the Denver offense look come playoff time? Who the hell knows. Your guess is as good as mine. That's why I don't think we really learned a ton from this game.

[Vince, Pt. II]

This seems to have become its own sport. My best guess is that the hyperactive media saturation has people talking and thinking at this level far more than ever before. It's not really that officials are suddenly all dimwits compared to the scholars they used to be. It's got to be us, right?

I absolutely hate blaming the refs for things. It seems like a cop out, and an overreaction to anecdotal evidence that may or may not even be real. That being said, I need to own that I've done an awful lot of complaining about the refs in recent years. I almost wonder if it has to do with the teams I enjoy having success recently, so they are in more 'big games' that mean more, magnifying the importance of all the little calls.

Then again...

There has been quite a bit of turnover in the officiating ranks. I think I saw a number that 30% have been in the NFL for only one or two years.

The crew who was working the 49ers game yesterday was Pete Morelli's crew. This is the same crew that was under fire for the Monday night Chargers-Steelers game (the side judge was suspended without pay by the league for failing to keep track of the time properly), took a win away from the Ravens (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/17/will-nfl-take-action-against-morellis-crew-again/), and now has been under serious fire from many sources about the 49er-Cardinal game. I had a normally reasonable friend from out-of-state (he hates the 49ers) call me to tell me that he was almost convinced that the officiating was doing everything in their power to make sure the 49ers didn't win the game yesterday.

I think there's probably a little more to this than more scrutiny.

[wustin]

Ravens Block Last-Second Field Goal & Return it to Win the Game! | Browns vs. Ravens | NFL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBkjOrYv1Gk)

[AlexB]

That's So Browns.

Only just seen this. This is above and beyond even the Browns' usual standard. They really raised the bar on this one :D

[JPhillips]

This is incredible.

every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/ (https://subwayrecord.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/)

[Logan]

PFT is reporting that the crew from the SF-ARI game has been pulled from the upcoming MNF game they were scheduled to work.

[Thomkal]

I still have not seen enough replays to see if there was helmet to helmet contact. If there was, it is my understanding they have to call it no matter how incidental it was. But I can understand why 49'ers fans are upset-both with that call, and about 4 calls in a row against them when the Cards were at the goal line in the 3rd quarter. Whomever was responsible for keeping track of the downs early in the game should be suspended for a game. There was no reason for the confusion, and it was almost comical with how long it took to figure it out.


Palmer was saying there was helmet to helmet contact. Dial said Palmer ducked into the tackle.

[bhlloy]

Palmer was saying there was helmet to helmet contact. Dial said Palmer ducked into the tackle.

And Mike Pereira said it was an awful call. Regardless, Morelli and crew have been demoted and it might be time for him to hang it up. He's presided over a number of the really bad incidents over the last couple of years.

[jeff061]

I don't think they were that bad, especially if I can compare it to college games. The 2 sideline incidents last week were bizarre (as well as the Bills not even arguing), but I'm 99% sure they called the inadvertent whistle play correctly. When an inadvertent whistle happens as the ball is in the air the play is dead at the spot once it's possessed - if Buffalo had picked it off I think it would've been Buffalo ball at that spot
Quite sure when the whistle is blown with the ball in the air it's incomplete. It's not spotted where the catch was made post whistle being blown. I figured they gave them the catch to make up for the horrible whistle.

[Logan]

Correct. It should have been a replayed down with the ball in the air at the time of the whistle.

[sabotai]

Logan's got it right. From the rulebook:

Rule 7, Section 2

(n) when an official sounds his whistle while the ball is still in play, the ball becomes dead immediately;
(i) If the ball is in player possession, the team in possession may elect to put the ball in play where it has been declared dead or to replay the down.
(ii) If the ball is a loose ball resulting from a fumble, backward pass, or illegal forward pass, the team last in possession may elect to put the ball in play at the spot where possession was lost or to replay the down.
(iii) If the ball is a loose ball resulting from a legal forward pass, a free kick, a fair-catch kick, or a scrimmage kick, the ball is returned to the previous spot, and the down is replayed.

[Solecismic]

Regarding the Patriots, there's a delicate line between using perceived adversity as a motivation and simply whining about the refs. I'm not sure which side of the line they're on right now. We'll know much more from their play on Sunday.

[NobodyHere]

Regarding the Patriots, there's a delicate line between using perceived adversity as a motivation and simply whining about the refs. I'm not sure which side of the line they're on right now. We'll know much more from their play on Sunday.

No reason it can't be both.

[spleen1015]

No doubt they are a bunch of whiny bitches.

[Kodos]

And how.

[QuikSand]

This is incredible.

every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/ (https://subwayrecord.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/)

Site is brilliant. I think he undersells this one, though... I think I'd place it #3 (he suggested about #10 with a timely edit to an older pre-written piece). I wasn't sure where to rank the top two myself, but he sold me with his decision in his write-up.

[PilotMan]

This is incredible.


every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/ (https://subwayrecord.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/every-browns-loss-since-1999-ranked/)


I like to look at this picture and imagine that Richardson and Weeden are the guys on the outside of the shot. It seems more Cleveland that way.

spoiled for size





https://i0.wp.com/bigredsportsmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Cleveland-Browns-Trent-and-Brandon.jpg