NFL Week 13

[NobodyHere]

Detroit goes for the sweep of Green Bay tonight. Will they pull it off?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am at the Lions-Packers game.

I'm in a suite with the Discount Double Check Guy. His name is Adrian. He just told me how he won the audition - he paused, thought to himself what it would really be like to see Aaron Rodgers and the rest was history...

[NobodyHere]

Well I hope you enjoyed that TD Stafford just threw.

[NobodyHere]

Or that pick thrown by Rodgers

[NobodyHere]

Or that other TD thrown by Stafford.

[TroyF]

Just to wrap up last week:

I saw a replay from another angle of the Shaq hit on Brady and it was clean. He hit him in the shoulder pad and never got near his head. Saw a clip of the play Brady wanted a holding call in OT and didn't see it. The Gronk OPI and Chung hold looked like they were correct calls. The OPI on Gronk in the first half looked like a poor call.

In review. . . the Patriots lost that game and I don't think the reffing was near as bad as I did right after the game.

[TroyF]

Onto this week. . . what the hell is happening to Green Bay? Holy hell they look bad.

On the other side, Detroit fans should be getting angrier and angrier at that Seahawks call. They would have a real shot at the playoffs otherwise. They are playing some terrific football right now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Or that pick thrown by Rodgers

Or that other TD thrown by Stafford.

Considering I just picked up Stafford in fantasy this week, I am.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was also down on the field before the game and met Jason Day. Apparently, he's a really good golfer, but I had no idea who he was. He's a really nice guy.

[albionmoonlight]

Who would have guessed that the greatest offensive mind of our generation would be named Jim Bob Cooter?

[bhlloy]

Crazy to think McCarthy might be on the hotseat? There's enough talent still they shouldn't be this bad. Brady would still kill for these weapons

[Thomkal]

wow talk about a total collapse the past few weeks. and what a turnaround by Detroit.

[EagleFan]

Starting to look like this will end up being a 2 touchdown Packer victory.

[NobodyHere]

You could certainly ask for a worse Thursday night game...

[Thomkal]

I spoke too soon?

[NobodyHere]

I spoke too soon?

Well when talking about a Lions collapse there's always a "too soon"

[NobodyHere]

How the f*)* do you get that penalty

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Holy shit.

[NobodyHere]

Only the Lions (and Browns) could lose in this fashion

[bhlloy]

Holy fucking shit. The lions and the Browns every single time.

Wasn't a penalty either

[EagleFan]

Wow

[EagleFan]

Holy fucking shit. The lions and the Browns every single time.

Wasn't a penalty either

That was clearly a facemask.

[Butter]

Two people beat me to the Browns/Lions comparison.

[Solecismic]

Take that, Browns. You've got nothing on the Lions this week.

ETA: Yes, seems like the right comparison.

[Butter]

What the hell were the Lions doing on that one? None of them were even close to knocking that down.

[NobodyHere]

Take that, Browns. You've got nothing on the Lions this week.

Don't underestimate the luck of the Browns...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That was clearly a facemask.

And if it wasn't a facemask, it was a horse collar tackle on the followthrough.

[Arles]

Wow, what a finish. Maybe this will give the Packers a life line this season

[Atocep]

The Browns can't even have their moment.

[bhlloy]

That might be the worst defensive call on a Hail Mary I have ever seen mind. Three man rush inside allowing an easy run outside and time to throw. Everyone deeper than the receivers.

[SirFozzie]

Most Detroit-like loss ever by the Lions.

[RomaGoth]

Holy fucking shit. The lions and the Browns every single time.

Wasn't a penalty either

That was clearly a facemask.

Look at the replay. He never touched Rogers facemask. Another NFL officiating fuckup.

[NobodyHere]

I bet Martha Ford is NOT happy

[RomaGoth]

And if it wasn't a facemask, it was a horse collar tackle on the followthrough.

He grabbed his shoulder. It was a terrible call.

[NobodyHere]

Look at the replay. He never touched Rogers facemask. Another NFL officiating fuckup.

It looked like the facemask moved to me

ETA: Okay it was questionable.

[kingfc22]

Just saw the replay. Why were all the DB's behind the Packer receivers?

[Butter]

His chin strap ended up near his nose, so if he didn't get his face mask touched then I don't know how that happened.

[Butter]

Yeah, I just saw the replay, RG is right. That's a shoulder grab.

[Solecismic]

That's just not how the prevent defense works. It's like they were defending the back of the end zone. You have Calvin Johnson on the roster. He should have been standing at the 2 ready to bat anything down.

And, yes, it was a face mask. Hard to realize Rodgers had no way to escape or lateral in the heat of the battle, but as a defender you have to be more careful.

[RomaGoth]

His entire helmet was falling off, but it was because of his impact after hitting the ground.

[bhlloy]

Just saw the replay. Why were all the DB's behind the Packer receivers?

That should get a DC fired. That was literally everything not to do on a hail mary in one hilariously bad play.

[RomaGoth]

The bad call aside, that was the worst endzone coverage on a hail-mary I have ever seen. And that includes the Kordell Stewart against Michigan hail-mary...

[Solecismic]

His entire helmet was falling off, but it was because of his impact after hitting the ground.

I'll have to watch it again. Only saw the first replay. It looked like the hand moved the face mask before moving to the shoulder from that angle. He was almost behind Rodgers. But I'm sure there are better shots you guys have seen since.

[RomaGoth]

I'll have to watch it again. Only saw the first replay. It looked like the hand moved the face mask before moving to the shoulder from that angle. He was almost behind Rodgers. But I'm sure there are better shots you guys have seen since.

At the very least it was a questionable call, but the replays I saw his hand touched Rogers' shoulder. No helmet, no horse-tackle. Just great acting by a whining QB and shitty NFL officiating. Oh, and a new way for the Lions to lose a game!

[RainMaker]

Why did Detroit have 2 guys standing at the 30 yard line with no one within 30 yards of them on either side?

[Thomkal]

I'm sorry for doubting you Green Bay. :)

[EagleFan]

See thumb in the facemask.

[EagleFan]

dola, and helmet being pulled downward.

[Atocep]

Unless the thumb in the facemask pulled or caused a twist of it there is no penalty.

From the replay I saw his thumb grazed the facemask but didn't twist or pull it.

[kingfc22]

In real speed, it's easy to see why this was called a penalty. Replay allows for us to see all the details, but I don't think you can blame the official for believing this was a penalty.

[sabotai]

Animated gif of it: http://gfycat.com/FamousHugeBrownbutterfly

[cmp]

It wasn't a face mask but as a Lions fan I'm getting used to getting screwed out of calls like that. Seattle and now Green Bay.

Add in the Michigan loss to MSU and this year has sucked for crazy finishes.

[Vince, Pt. II]

In real speed, it's easy to see why this was called a penalty. Replay allows for us to see all the details, but I don't think you can blame the official for believing this was a penalty.

This is the money analysis. I think it's debatable as to whether or not it was a facemask. He clearly didn't grab and tug, but the helmet also clearly moved. With the helmet moving and the way it looked after Rogers hit the ground, it's almost impossible to blame the refs for throwing a flag there.

Edit: also, I'm not sure I understand the complaints that Rogers was somehow acting here. He's just thrown to the ground, and the flag comes in well before he even has a chance to raise his arms.

[albionmoonlight]

Watching the replay, I agree that it was the wrong call, but watching it in real time, it didn't even occur to me that it wasn't a facemask.

[Butter]

Watching the replay, I agree that it was the wrong call, but watching it in real time, it didn't even occur to me that it wasn't a facemask.

Yeah, agreed.

I wonder how Discount Double Check guy reacted? Does that guy literally follow Aaron Rodgers around from city to city?

[Kodos]

Yeah, watching with a high-def, up-close view, it's not. But I couldn't blame a ref for thinking it was in real time.

[Thomkal]

I've seen the replays now, and remember guys the play wasn't reviewable. It sure looked like a face mask in real time, and to me at least, it looks like the thumb at least hit the face mask, if not caught inside of it.

[Ben E Lou]

The Facemask Penalty On The Lions Was The Right Call In The Moment (http://deadspin.com/the-facemask-penalty-on-the-lions-was-the-right-call-in-1746177269?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---6rL4Gy1--/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/jgki16fwvfcmffne0hsz.gif

[Draft Dodger]

In real speed, it's easy to see why this was called a penalty. Replay allows for us to see all the details, but I don't think you can blame the official for believing this was a penalty.

agree 100%. Totally looked like a blatant face mask at full speed. That's a bad break for the Lions, but hard to fault the refs. (Not sure I understand how the missed the offensive pass interference on the previous play though).

That pass coverage on the hail mary was as bad as it gets (as it unfolded live, I was like "why are they leaving that receiver all alone in the front of the end zone").

[Arles]

The face mask is a judgement call and not reviewable. According to the rules, you just have to grasp the facemask. Regardless of how you dissect that replay, that call gets made 100% of the time at real speed and can't be reviewed. There is plenty of ammo to go at the refs with this year, but this play isn't one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The face mask is a judgement call and not reviewable. According to the rules, you just have to grasp the facemask. Regardless of how you dissect that replay, that call gets made 100% of the time at real speed and can't be reviewed. There is plenty of ammo to go at the refs with this year, but this play isn't one.

+1

[Atocep]

According to the rules, you just have to grasp the facemask.

While I agree with your overall point, this is not true.

No player shall grasp and control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction Rule 12, Section 2, Article 14

[Arles]

If you grasp it with your thumb and the mask moves as a result, it's a judgement call that can certainly be made on "turn".

[flere-imsaho]

The face mask is a judgement call and not reviewable. According to the rules, you just have to grasp the facemask. Regardless of how you dissect that replay, that call gets made 100% of the time at real speed and can't be reviewed. There is plenty of ammo to go at the refs with this year, but this play isn't one.

+2

[MIJB#19]

Isn't the real problem here the inability to at all times be able to review the last play of the game?

[NobodyHere]

Why is Matt Millen allowed anywhere near an announcer's booth?

[SnowMan]

Vikings getting the Super Bowl XL treatment today. Wow.

[frnk55]

I got the Viking game and had to suffer through it. Pathetic. Good 49er game on now.

[NobodyHere]

And the Browns are booed off the field.

How can this team be this bad for so long?

[weegeebored]

And the Bears have another coaching staff that plays not to lose. Won't be sad to see Gase go if other teams still think he's a viable head coach which is debatable.

[cuervo72]

Well, at least this game isn't Nantz/Simms.

[sabotai]

The Giants' season

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_SoU4qzZlcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Thomkal]

The Giants' season

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_SoU4qzZlcw" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Betting they wish they went for a FG on that 4th down now.

[Radii]

Carolina is playing sloppy as all hell. I have no idea what Cam was doing/thinking on that play when he relaxed and got blown up. I sure hope that's not a concussion, but it looks like we get at least a series of Derek Anderson.

[EagleFan]

Should have taken the Eagles defense...

[NobodyHere]

So punt block for TD, 99 yard pick 6, and now a punt return for TD. That has to be some kind of record

[Radii]

Carolina is playing sloppy as all hell. I have no idea what Cam was doing/thinking on that play when he relaxed and got blown up. I sure hope that's not a concussion, but it looks like we get at least a series of Derek Anderson.

Whew, no Derek Anderson, and Carolina recovers from 3 early turnovers and looks fine.

[EagleFan]

I thought they outlawed that play?

[NobodyHere]

I thought they outlawed that play?

Brady throwing picks? No, not yet.


But when did they outlaw the preceding play?

[EagleFan]

Brady throwing picks? No, not yet.


But when did they outlaw the preceding play?

I remember a while back in response to Manning doing that.

[NobodyHere]

So who had Philly up 35-14 in the 4th?

[EagleFan]

Now this has become a great way to start December!

[spleen1015]

NE fans leaving. You have Tom Brady! Anything can happen! Quitters!

[EagleFan]

Seahawks crush the Vikings and now this (which all started when hoodie decided to try the crazy onside kick when up 14-0).

[cuervo72]

NE fans leaving. You have Tom Brady! Anything can happen! Quitters!

Seriously. Who would rule that team out?

[NobodyHere]

Seriously. Who would rule that team out?

They already got a TD and an onside recovered.

[cuervo72]

And another TD. I mean, seriously people. The Eagles are losing this game.

[cuervo72]

:|

[miami_fan]

Is that a catch by Olson? I think he dropped it when he rolled over.

[miked]

Loved watching Newton get blown up for coasting. He needs a little reality check.

[cuervo72]

Well, they tried their damnedest anyway.

[Radii]

Loved watching Newton get blown up for coasting. He needs a little reality check.

I've never seen him do that before (anymore than any other player does when they think the end zone is empty in front of them). Like that wasn't that he assumed the defenders weren't trying I don't think. His awareness just went to shit and he thought no one was there. Hope it never happens again.

[Radii]

So three early turnovers, Ginn drops multiple wide open bombs, and it still turns out ok. 12-0... whew, too damn close.

[stevew]

Geez, sometimes we just wanna watch football

[sabotai]

Betting they wish they went for a FG on that 4th down now.

During the game: "I like the aggression. Gotta go for the win when you have your foot on their throat!"

After the game: "What the FUCK were you thinking!?!?"


I know I'm in the minority of Giants fans, but I think they should give Coughlin-McAdoo-Spags another year to figure it out. The last thing I want is for the Giants to end up in the cycle of a new OC and DC every 1-3 years, and a new Head Coach every 2-4 years that so many teams that are always in the lower half of the league end up in. McAdoo is in year 2 and Spags is in year 1 (he's back for fans and management, but he's new to all of defensive players).

It takes time for teams to learn systems. I haven't checked into the stats, but by the eye test, the passing game is better this year with the running game being the same ("meh" OL to begin with, and it's been ravaged with injuries). Plus, they'll get Victor Cruz back next year (who knows what the injuries have done to him). The defense is full of holes, but they are still learning the system. There are positives. They are average against the run, and near the top of the league in takeaways. If they get better rushing the ball, and better with giving up passing yards, they can be a really good team. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think the Giants are close to being a 10-6 team. One more year and some luck when it comes to injuries and they could get there.

[Solecismic]

Doesn't Coughlin/Manning get a full lifetime pass with the local fan base being the only team with more than one title in the last nine seasons?

The Giants have to be the ultimate "meh" during the regular season, kill you in the playoffs team in the cap era.

[cuervo72]

Nice STP play out to the first break, NBC.

[Glengoyne]

Is that a catch by Olson? I think he dropped it when he rolled over.


This like +7.

I mean he's my fantasy team's tight end, and I'm in a close game; But I think that according to the stupidest rule in football, he didn't maintain control of that ball all of the way through the contact with the ground. It pretty clearly squirted out to the ground when he rolled on top of it. Also odd was that the clearly showed it right before commercial, but then cut away from that clip at the crucial moment twice during commentary after they came back.

[Abe Sargent]

Just in case anyone cares:

Bortles’s five-touchdown, no-interception performance with more than 320 yards passing Sunday made him the youngest player in NFL history to accomplish the feat

[NobodyHere]

The part of 'The Colts" tonight will be played by the Cleveland Browns.

Let's see if anybody notices.

[Julio Riddols]

Bortles good. Jags defense bad. Bright future.

[Thomkal]

During the game: "I like the aggression. Gotta go for the win when you have your foot on their throat!"

After the game: "What the FUCK were you thinking!?!?"


I know I'm in the minority of Giants fans, but I think they should give Coughlin-McAdoo-Spags another year to figure it out. The last thing I want is for the Giants to end up in the cycle of a new OC and DC every 1-3 years, and a new Head Coach every 2-4 years that so many teams that are always in the lower half of the league end up in. McAdoo is in year 2 and Spags is in year 1 (he's back for fans and management, but he's new to all of defensive players).

It takes time for teams to learn systems. I haven't checked into the stats, but by the eye test, the passing game is better this year with the running game being the same ("meh" OL to begin with, and it's been ravaged with injuries). Plus, they'll get Victor Cruz back next year (who knows what the injuries have done to him). The defense is full of holes, but they are still learning the system. There are positives. They are average against the run, and near the top of the league in takeaways. If they get better rushing the ball, and better with giving up passing yards, they can be a really good team. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think the Giants are close to being a 10-6 team. One more year and some luck when it comes to injuries and they could get there.

I think Manning needs to follow his brother into retirement soon personally (sorry Lathum-wish you were still here)-team needs a shake up from the top. Other than Beckham (and maybe Cruz and JPP), the team has no superstars, just a bunch of average players. That whole division was pitiful this year, and the Giants could have dominated, but didn't. Coughlin made some poor decisions especially early in the season, and when he tried to be aggressive in this game it backfired badly on him. How many games did the team lose in the 4th quarter this year?

[Thomkal]

it was nice to see my beloved Cardinals dominated a mediocre Rams team unlike the 49ers last week. May need it with four dangerous games left-Vikings on Thursday, (well maybe not after ths week). a suddenly hot Eagles team, then GB and Seattle. Thankfully 3 of the four are at home. They just need to keep Carson healthy for the rest of the season. And the defense too.

nice to see rookie D.Johnson respond so well to the injuries to C. Johnson and Ellington. Needs to watch those fumbles though.

[QuikSand]

I know nobody cares, but...

I play in a FanDuel private game, and the guy who finished 2nd had to sweat whether Roethlisberger would come out for the victory formation to take a knee. Had BB lost 2 yards rushing, he would have slipped from 2nd to 3rd, a delta of more than $100 in real money in this little league.

The misfire on the BB/Bryant pass on their last PIT possession, coupled with the FG afterward, cinched my narrow (~6 pts) victory for the week.

[Radii]

May need it with four dangerous games left-Vikings on Thursday, (well maybe not after ths week). a suddenly hot Eagles team, then GB and Seattle.

It'd be nice if Arizona would just go ahead and lose one or two of those to make it easier/quicker for Carolina to lock up home field, please and thank you. ;)

[miami_fan]

I was not playing close attention to the game so I missed the explanation. Why was Ingram flagged for his celebration after he scored in the 4th qtr? Can you no longer allowed to throw the ball at the wall behind end zone?

[Dutch]

I'm going to guess that he almost beheaded that chick with the ball that drew the flag.

[JPhillips]

I think Manning needs to follow his brother into retirement soon personally (sorry Lathum-wish you were still here)-team needs a shake up from the top. Other than Beckham (and maybe Cruz and JPP), the team has no superstars, just a bunch of average players. That whole division was pitiful this year, and the Giants could have dominated, but didn't. Coughlin made some poor decisions especially early in the season, and when he tried to be aggressive in this game it backfired badly on him. How many games did the team lose in the 4th quarter this year?

They've lost four games where they had the lead in the last minute.

[stevew]

Is this it for Peyton? I can't see going back to him in Denver now. They really should get a look at Ostweiler the rest of the way since Peyton looked so awful.

So Peyton is done, or Peyton goes to the Jets for 2016?

[spleen1015]

I have a feeling Peyton is done with the Broncos, but he's going to play some where next year and be worse than Favre was in his last year.

[Dutch]

I can't see Peyton coming back, this is the right time for a classy exit.

[stevew]

Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.

[Thomkal]

It'd be nice if Arizona would just go ahead and lose one or two of those to make it easier/quicker for Carolina to lock up home field, please and thank you. ;)

Arizona has a date with Carolina in the playoffs, hopefully with Carson as the starting QB this time around. So they can show them what should have happened last season :)

[Thomkal]

Cardinals-Eagles game has been flexed to Sunday night that week-twice this season that will play back to back on prime time, And with games with Green Bay and Seattle there could be more moved. Cardinals fever catch it!

[Logan]

I didn't have very high expectations to start and yet this is still one of the worst athletic competitions I've seen in a long time.

[bhlloy]

3-3 at halftime is a hell of a soccer game

[Thomkal]

9-6 now real barnburner.

[Dutch]

A tie is a solid possibility...

[Senator]

I go to the penalty box. Feel shame.

go cowboys

[Solecismic]

In this particular instance, they should change the two-minute warning to an advisory.

[bhlloy]

Refs want this one to be over as bad as anyone

[cuervo72]

They GIFTED YOU THE GAME, Cowboys.

[bhlloy]

All you had to do was run the ball up the middle three times and kick the field goal. Taking a knee would have worked just as well. This is the game that won't die.

[Dutch]

Big redemption play for Jackson.

[cuervo72]

Ok, nevermind. Thank you, Cowboys.

[cuervo72]

(Why I'm saying thanks I'm not sure, this doesn't change that the Eagles still suck and aren't going anywhere even if they DO somehow win this crapfest of a division.)

[Dutch]

Well, thank God that's over with....last 3 minutes were pretty cool though.

[jbergey22]

The Golden Age of NFL football when the Cowboys/Redskins meant something.

1984 Redskins @ Cowboys - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcl3rYjmgY)

[Galaril]

Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.

No way Osweiler gets 14-18 mill from Elway even if the team wins it all. Maybe 12 certainly much less than Manning is getting. Von Miller is a tough one but with the rookie Shane Ray looking great as well as second year guy Barrett I would be fine letting Miller walk to FA . He is a great player but not worth 20 million. We got lots of needs elsewhere to sign both DE ends and the free safety as well as at least one of the inside linebackers Trevathon or Marshall, both Hillman and CJ Andersen are free agents and would expect only one of them is resigned. Would be great to extend Emmanuel Sanders too .

[jbergey22]

No way Osweiler gets 14-18 mill from Elway even if the team wins it all. Maybe 12 certainly much less than Manning is getting. Von Miller is a tough one but with the rookie Shane Ray looking great as well as second year guy Barrett I would be fine letting Miller walk to FA . He is a great player but not worth 20 million. We got lots of needs elsewhere to sign both DE ends and the free safety as well as at least one of the inside linebackers Trevathon or Marshall, both Hillman and CJ Andersen are free agents and would expect only one of them is resigned. Would be great to extend Emmanuel Sanders too .

Indeed! While maybe someone might vastly overpay for Osweiler it wont be Elway. He understands the game far too well to just simply grade the QB position on 'team' wins. (Remembering Tim Tebow)

[BishopMVP]

All you had to do was run the ball up the middle three times and kick the field goal. Taking a knee would have worked just as well. This is the game that won't die.This was a tricky one, but since the Redskins had 2 timeouts (and we just saw 9 missed XP's Sunday) I don't think the Cowboys did anything wrong that series other than McFadden running OOB. Running it up the middle 3x right after the fumbled punt would've meant a 30ish yard FG and giving the Redskins the ball back with 50ish seconds needing only a FG of their own. Similarly once McFadden went OOB and it was 2nd & 1, 2 stops would've meant a 25yd FG and the Skins getting it back down 3 with about a minute left. Theoretically they should've told McFadden to gain 1 yard on 2nd down, then fall down inside the 5, but that's a lot to process and I wouldn't want to tell an RB to give himself up with that many bodies around him. But kicking off with 50 seconds and only a 3-pt lead isn't nearly secure enough for me to tell him to take a dive, as we saw with the 2 ensuing possessions.

Just don't allow 40+ yard KO returns, commit facemask penalties on those, or leave their deep threat in 1v1 coverage near the end zone. Or in this case, let them score quickly enough you are the team getting the ball with 45 seconds left needing just a FG :D Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.Glad the Denver fans jumped in first, but let's just let Osweiler finish out the season before even trying to predict contract numbers. Even right now, he's below average in every category PFR measures (Comp %, TD %, INT %, Sack %, overall QB rating, all 4 Yards per Attempt metrics) despite the 3-0 record.

Fwiw, I do think the Dalton/Kap contracts are a good guide - I expect at least one QB desperate team would offer him mid-teens AAV's with little to no guaranteed money after year 1 right now. How he plays the next few weeks could determine if a couple of those teams have a bidding war over how much they want to guarantee him and he's priced well out of Denver's range, or if he falls down into the Brian Hoyer/Matt Cassell type-area of 2/$12m. Sounds like that, or the Broncos either re-signing Miller/deciding he wants too much and would be too much of a headache on the franchise tag so they're willing to put it on Osweiler for a year is the only way Osweiler's staying in Denver.

[JeeberD]

Well, thank God that's over with....last 3 minutes were pretty cool though.

For some reason I set the game to record using the FIOS app, which doesn't give you the option to extend the recording time. The recording cut off with about 4 minutes left in the game. I sat through all the crap and missed the exciting conclusion... :banghead:

[Galaril]

This was a tricky one, but since the Redskins had 2 timeouts (and we just saw 9 missed XP's Sunday) I don't think the Cowboys did anything wrong that series other than McFadden running OOB. Running it up the middle 3x right after the fumbled punt would've meant a 30ish yard FG and giving the Redskins the ball back with 50ish seconds needing only a FG of their own. Similarly once McFadden went OOB and it was 2nd & 1, 2 stops would've meant a 25yd FG and the Skins getting it back down 3 with about a minute left. Theoretically they should've told McFadden to gain 1 yard on 2nd down, then fall down inside the 5, but that's a lot to process and I wouldn't want to tell an RB to give himself up with that many bodies around him. But kicking off with 50 seconds and only a 3-pt lead isn't nearly secure enough for me to tell him to take a dive, as we saw with the 2 ensuing possessions.

Just don't allow 40+ yard KO returns, commit facemask penalties on those, or leave their deep threat in 1v1 coverage near the end zone. Or in this case, let them score quickly enough you are the team getting the ball with 45 seconds left needing just a FG :D Glad the Denver fans jumped in first, but let's just let Osweiler finish out the season before even trying to predict contract numbers. Even right now, he's below average in every category PFR measures (Comp %, TD %, INT %, Sack %, overall QB rating, all 4 Yards per Attempt metrics) despite the 3-0 record.

Fwiw, I do think the Dalton/Kap contracts are a good guide - I expect at least one QB desperate team would offer him mid-teens AAV's with little to no guaranteed money after year 1 right now. How he plays the next few weeks could determine if a couple of those teams have a bidding war over how much they want to guarantee him and he's priced well out of Denver's range, or if he falls down into the Brian Hoyer/Matt Cassell type-area of 2/$12m. Sounds like that, or the Broncos either re-signing Miller/deciding he wants too much and would be too much of a headache on the franchise tag so they're willing to put it on Osweiler for a year is the only way Osweiler's staying in Denver.


Bishop I totally agree and to steal a play from your teams book we are on to next weeks game not the offseason. That being said I don't think Osweiler is anything we can't replace. Plus Kubiak may very well want to pick "his" guy in the draft that is a perfect fit for his offense. I am just more focused on the Broncos resigning as many of the defensive players along with Sanders and Andersen. The Oline is a hot mess with only two future starters current in the team. They will get 20 million coming off the books plus Von Millers but agree they may tag him.

[MIJB#19]

(Why I'm saying thanks I'm not sure, this doesn't change that the Eagles still suck and aren't going anywhere even if they DO somehow win this crapfest of a division.)If they can beat the Giants and Redskins, the tie-breakers are secured over the entire division. Although with the remaining schedules, i's not impossible to have a four-way tie at 7-9, with the Cowboys taking the division on divisional record...
Cowboys (L@gb, Wvnyj, W@buf, Wvwas)
Eagles (Wvbuf, LvArz, Wvwas, L@nyg)
Giants (W@mia, Lvcar, L@min, Wvphi)
Redskins (W@chi, Wvbuf, L@phi, L@dal)

Or 6-10 all:
Cowboys (L@gb, Wvnyj, L@buf, Wvwas)
Eagles (Lvbuf, LvArz, Wvwas, L@nyg)
Giants (L@mia, Lvcar, L@min, Wvphi)
Redskins (L@chi, Wvbuf, L@phi, L@dal)

[Thomkal]

I think its appropriate that the NFC East ends in a four way tie of awfulness.

[BishopMVP]

Bishop I totally agree and to steal a play from your teams book we are on to next weeks game not the offseason. That being said I don't think Osweiler is anything we can't replace. Plus Kubiak may very well want to pick "his" guy in the draft that is a perfect fit for his offense. I am just more focused on the Broncos resigning as many of the defensive players along with Sanders and Andersen. The Oline is a hot mess with only two future starters current in the team. They will get 20 million coming off the books plus Von Millers but agree they may tag him.Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.

[Galaril]

Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.


Only one year but Flacco is a QB that is the type though he is not as mobile as would be best. Kubiak made a strong run at acquiring Tyrod Taylor before the Bills grabbed him. That I think tells us the type of mobile QB Kubiak would like. Who knows like you said maybe he thinks Osweiler is a fit for the run first stretch run bootleg and throw long on play action pass now and then.

[TroyF]

Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.


Honestly, I wouldn't call Carr or Schaub QB's that Kubiak really likes either. i think the "Kubiak" QB is someone like Jake Plummer. Mobile, can use play action to set up deep passes, etc. The reality is he has succeeded with a lot of different types of QB's. Schaub threw for 4,700 yards with him. Flacco had a good year last year and didn't really fit that mold.

As for the Denver salary cap, as you have said it is far too early to hand the reigns to Brock. (he was actually pretty poor against San Diego) The way the Denver cap is set up, however, gives them the freedom to do a lot of things.


My guess is that Manning (duh), Ware (plenty of depth at that position), Clady (played without him in 2 of the last 4 years) and Talib (Roby is ready to replace him) will all be cut. (or restructured if they choose to) That frees up close to 45 million on the cap with around 8.2 million in dead money the following year.

I think that's more than enough to sign Brock and Miller. The real question is what they do with a lot of the unsung heros of both the offense and defense. Malik Jackson, Derek Wolfe, and Danny Trevathan will be UFA's. Marshall will be an RFA. That's both starting ILB, and our best pass rushing DE who can collapse the pocket in the 3/4. You add in both running backs (Anderson and Hillman) and Evan Mathis and it is an interesting situation.

I'll worry about all of that in the offseason. I'm excited to watch this defense for the rest of the year. I don't see this team winning the Super Bowl, but the defense at least gives us a shot. I'll enjoy this season and then look toward next year. (I'm thinking of how much fun it would be to make those decisions in the new FOF now) :)