NFL 2016 Head Coaching and Offseason Stuff

[CU Tiger]

I suspect the eventual outcome of this is much worse though. Next labor contract, I fully expect a full lost season.

With the NFL making more than MLB and NBA combined, and the players being the lowest paid of the three... The climate around concussions and "what they knew".... The heavy handed omniscient GOoDell....and the (assumptive) lack of of the union head being either on the take or totally incompetent for the first time in decades... this next round of negotiations will be brutal and bloody. I'm not convinced that 1 strike season is even doubtful at this juncture.

And I wouldn't be shocked to see Brady in that role (players union rep) in the future.

[Suicane75]

And President Trump, in the longest con of all, finally gets his USFL.

[JPhillips]

The theory's always been that it was initiated by people with a personal, not professional, vendetta against Belichick and the Pats. Mike Kensil specifically was one of the people at the Jets when Belichick wrote I quit on a napkin and bounced to New England. Then once that false info was leaked and the narrative developed Goodell cowtowed to the owners (which, to be fair, is what they pay him for) regardless of what the facts were.

And now people who would be apoplectic if this was their team, and appalled if this was the evidence in any court case, are not just accepting of Goodell's actions but actually gleeful it happened I guess because the fanbase is arrogant? And they perceive the Patriots as cheaters, even though outside of Spygate (for which we received the largest punishment in NFL history) there is zero hard evidence the Patriots actually push boundaries any more than the average NFL team. So yeah, SHURG it is, because apparently most people are incapable of disliking the Patriots or their fans while still acknowledging that this has been a witch-hunt from day 1 and a complete joke on Goodell's part, if the goal really was to find the truth. Which it clearly hasn't been.

As far as the punishment I've never cared about the Brady stuff compared to the draft picks, and barring injury the timeline doesn't work for Jimmy G replacing him, but hopefully he does well in his audition so we can get more draft capital when we likely trade him next spring.

As a Bengals fan, I could spend every season bitching about how the NFL favors the Steelers. It is what it is.

You win more than anyone else. Why isn't that enough for you?

[Radii]

So yeah, SHURG it is, because apparently most people are incapable of disliking the Patriots or their fans while still acknowledging that this has been a witch-hunt from day 1 and a complete joke on Goodell's part, if the goal really was to find the truth. Which it clearly hasn't been.


My issue is specifically with SirFozzie completely ignoring everything written about how the witch-hunt is related to spygate and how Gooddell fucked it up and how other owners were specifically looking for a "make-up call" for Spygate and instead changing the narrative to "the pats have won too long so this is what happens".


I'm no fan of Goodell or how the NFL has done pretty much anything from the disciplinary side of things in the past decade.

I'm taking issue specifically with one person's interpretation that, to me, is laughable. Not intending to be anything more behind it than that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I wouldn't be shocked to see Brady in that role (players union rep) in the future.

Well, that'd be one way to put the fans in the corner of the owners.

[Julio Riddols]

So LeVeon Bell could be suspended 4 games and Ezekiel Elliott might be beating his GF... Speculation on both for now, but one story obviously much bigger than the other if allegations of domestic abuse do arise.

[stevew]

bell is dumb and it was leaked a month ago that he missed a test. Elliot thing sounds like BS, but I'm sure they'll look into it more.

[Julio Riddols]

Yeah, reading into it, it seems 4 witnesses do not want to go along with the GF's story on Elliott. One of them apparently was in the car at the time of the alleged attack.

[Logan]

Josh Gordon reinstated on a conditional basis. He's suspended first 4 games.

I'll give it until 8/28 until he is kicked out again.

[cartman]

The Rams granted Nick Foles his release, so he is a free agent now

[cartman]

In other QB news, it sounds like the Jets and Fitzpatrick finally reached a deal.

[Thomkal]

In other QB news, it sounds like the Jets and Fitzpatrick finally reached a deal.

He's lucky to be in position for a starting job after that debacle in the last game of the year. He was trying for a 3 year deal which just seemed silly given that game. Maybe he can prove that he can do the job with this deal and if not the Jets won't lose any sleep over a one year deal.

[Logan]

He's lucky to be in position for a starting job after that debacle in the last game of the year. He was trying for a 3 year deal which just seemed silly given that game. Maybe he can prove that he can do the job with this deal and if not the Jets won't lose any sleep over a one year deal.

I don't think he was trying for a three year deal as much as he was trying for more guaranteed money, which the Jets couldn't afford without stretching it into more years. They offered him 1 year, 2 year, and 3 year contracts as of like a month ago.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Foles to the 49ers seems like a foregone conclusion, and while I'm fairly certain he's better than either Kaepernick or Gannett, I still don't want him.

[lungs]

Foles to the 49ers seems like a foregone conclusion, and while I'm fairly certain he's better than either Kaepernick or Gannett, I still don't want him.

I'd love Dallas to pick up Foles for when Tony Romo inevitably gets injured.

Kellen Moore does not inspire confidence.

[BishopMVP]

He's lucky to be in position for a starting job after that debacle in the last game of the year. He was trying for a 3 year deal which just seemed silly given that game. Maybe he can prove that he can do the job with this deal and if not the Jets won't lose any sleep over a one year deal.He's a below average starting NFL QB, but still light years better than the Jets other options despite the fact they've picked 7 QB's in the last 9 drafts. (unless you're a believer in Geno Smith!) I really like Todd Bowles, but until they figure that out the ceiling's only so high.

I also think there's a decent chance he just wanted to enjoy some downtime since he could. Everyone thought this offer would still be on the table until training camp officially started, and as soon as they put a deadline on it he showed up and signed it.

[MacroGuru]

He's a below average starting NFL QB, but still light years better than the Jets other options despite the fact they've picked 7 QB's in the last 9 drafts. (unless you're a believer in Geno Smith!) I really like Todd Bowles, but until they figure that out the ceiling's only so high.

I also think there's a decent chance he just wanted to enjoy some downtime since he could. Everyone thought this offer would still be on the table until training camp officially started, and as soon as they put a deadline on it he showed up and signed it.

Im actually surprised he didn't hang it up. He has more than enough $$, the Ivy League education and I know he has several businesses making him $$. He was talking about being done when he was with the Bills.

[thesloppy]

I gotta say, as a Lions fan my standards are obviously pretty low and it's way too early to do anything other than look at the team on paper, but I've been pretty impressed what young, rookie GM Bob Quinn has done this offseason. He went heavy on the trenches in the draft, which the Lions haven't done in many years, bought in some safeties to help the back end problems, and though I certainly wasn't happy about the thought of going into 2016 without Calvin Johnson, signing Marvin Jones and just recently Anquan Boldin is about the best recovery you could expect (and makes a decent WR core, with Golden Tate), considering the circumstances.

[Julio Riddols]

Jones/Boldin is a nice interchange opposite Tate. Boldin is slow but he can still move the chains, Jones is a legit deep threat, and Tate is probably aching to be the top dog again after what he did in 2014. The Lions might have actually improved the passing game despite Johnson leaving.

[NobodyHere]

It looks like Andrew Luck is going to stink this year.

Matt Hasselbeck on Andrew Luck: “He takes pride in not showering� - Stampede Blue (http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/7/28/12318816/matt-hasselbeck-on-andrew-luck-he-takes-pride-in-not-showering-colts)

[cartman]

Gives a whole new meaning to him saying "Luck is in the air"

[Abe Sargent]

Well, I like my team better this year than in a looooooooooooooong time. Lots of losing years recently, but I just feel, for the first time, like we have something special about to happen.

Go JAGS!

[Kodos]

NFL investigation on PEDs clears Peyton Manning - Denver Broncos Blog- ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/20966/nfl-investigation-peyton-manning-welcomed-clears-him-months-after-retirement)

[flere-imsaho]

I just love this headline: Jaguars running back Denard Robinson addresses how car ended up in pond | Sport | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/29/jacksonville-jaguars-denard-robinson-running-back-car-pond)

[cartman]

Rolando McClain gets a 10 game suspension for violating the substance abuse policy.

Apparently he was getting his purple drank on, and that is what led to the suspension.

[Thomkal]

My beloved Cards give "honey badger" a 5 year extension, 62 million. Cards are clearly taking a risk here-he's not been able to get through a full season without a serious injury (both knees), but when he is on the field, he's clearly one of the best at the position, and he's become a leader off and on the field. Quite the success story from his college days when he fell all the way to the 3rd round.

Tyrann Mathieu, Cardinals agree to 5-year extension - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000678965/article/tyrann-mathieu-cardinals-agree-to-5year-extension)

[Thomkal]

Oh and Dallas backup Kellen Moore breaks his ankle:

Kellen Moore breaks ankle, will have surgery Wednesday - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000679126/article/kellen-moore-breaks-ankle-will-have-surgery-wednesday)

[Kodos]

Tom Jackson announces retirement from ESPN (http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Tom-Jackson-announces-retirement-from-ESPN/6bad1509-84f1-4075-8099-feee0c075f44)

Rats. Jackson is one of my favorite NFL analysts.

[BishopMVP]

Oh and Dallas backup Kellen Moore breaks his ankle:

Kellen Moore breaks ankle, will have surgery Wednesday - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000679126/article/kellen-moore-breaks-ankle-will-have-surgery-wednesday)Get Kyle Orton on the phone!

[Julio Riddols]

William Jackson III out for the year with a ripped titty. LAME... Thankfully he wasn't going to be a major player this year more than likely. I just hope Andrew Billings, Tyler Boyd and Nick Vigil stay healthy.

[NobodyHere]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/manziel-already-drinking-again-following-sobriety-pledge/ar-BBvcBOn?li=BBnba9I

I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya, ok not all that shocked.

[Butter]

William Jackson III out for the year with a ripped titty. LAME... Thankfully he wasn't going to be a major player this year more than likely. I just hope Andrew Billings, Tyler Boyd and Nick Vigil stay healthy.

They sounded like they thought he could be a nickel this year at least. Makes it somewhat important to re-sign Leon Hall now.

[Julio Riddols]

They sounded like they thought he could be a nickel this year at least. Makes it somewhat important to re-sign Leon Hall now.

Maybe. They still have Shaw, Dennard and Jones.. Kirkpatrick I'm not a big fan of, but those 3 should be on the field.. (Dennard needs to stay healthy of course)

Hall is gonna be Chris Crocker for a couple years I think.

[NobodyHere]

Preseason starts tonight, which means we're one step closer to the regular season!

[mckerney]

Preseason starts tonight, which means we're one step closer to the regular season!

The field melted so now we don't get Monday Night Football tonight, game cancelled.

EDIT: Not melted, the paint used on the field ruined it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The paint that was applied today on middle of field, and in endzones, has congealed; would be like playing on tar.<br><br>Game now doubtful.</p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/762417837147164672">August 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[NobodyHere]

You had one job field manager...

[Julio Riddols]

Hall of Fame LAME

[Thomkal]

well that's a horrible start to the NFL season.

[bhlloy]

Somebody is paying somebody else a shit ton of money over this

[stevew]

HOF Game is just another in the long list of Goddell debacles and I'm sure there will be a nice settlement for people who attended. Simply refunding the tickets won't be enough.

[NobodyHere]

How does this one fall on Goodell?

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t know if this is the place or not, so let'd do it:

My predictions for 2016 for the Jags:

1) Bortles, with a smarter play, and with a better running game, drops statistically from last year to to 4000 passing yards, 32 TDs, but gets his picks under control to 12.

2). Robinson is a beast and leads the team, and is one of the top receivers in the league again but with a fewer scores.

3). Hurns drops below 1000 yards from last year to somewhere near 900.

4). Julius Thomas reminds people why he's good, and continues the Bortles-Thomas connection when he was healthy last year (he had 5 scores and 455 yards in an aborted season)

5). If healthy, Marqise Lee breaks out and gives teh Jags some serious questions at receiver for the future.

6). Splitting carries at back very evenly, both Chris Ivory and TJ Yeldon have average years. The Running game improves due to....

7). Beachum wins the LT batter in camp after he returns from his surgery, and Joeckel slides to LG, which is actually a better fit for his skill set anyway. Impresses. Jags resign him to a cheaper LG contract. Also, newly minted C Brandon Linder becomes one of the better starting Centers in the league. He reminds folks that there was a reason many thought he was the best one on the line at the end of his rookie season

8). On defense::

9). Marks does not regain his 2014 form where he led all DTs in the league in sacks. Sad but true. He'll be a one-hit wonder

10). At the halfway mark of the season, either Ramsey or Jack is in the running for Defensive Rookie of the Year, but that fades by the end of the year

11). Malik Jackson is a disappointment

12). Dante Fowler leads the team in sacks, and becomes a major sack machine as the season progresses and he gets more on it.

13). At the end of the year, FS Gipson will look like the best FA signing for the Jags

14). With a strong FS presence, SS Jonathan Cyprien will stop being forced to do the away-from-the-line that's he's not good at. Helping with run support, tackling,forcing fumbles, causing disruption is where he's good, but not coverage or picks or stuff. He'll have the best year of his career in the SS role.

15). Near the end of the season, one of the three Jaguars star potential rookies on defense, Ramsey, Jack, or Fowler will be knocked out the season and have a rough injury.

16). Telvin Smith will, unfortunately, have a lesser season statistically as he's no longer the only show in town with Paul Poz coming back from surgery and Jack on the roster. He won;t make the NFLs Top 100 next year

17). Nobody on the Jags team is going to be high on the league's charts for picks. Not even Ramsey. But for other stuff, like passes defensed or something, that's on tab.

18). At the end of the year, the Jags will be 9-7 and potentially in the Wild Card chase. Andrew Luck doubters will falter, the Colts win the division, the Titans suffer a sophomore slump from their guy and the Texans need another year or two for Osweiler to get their offense and players. End of the year its Colts, Jags, Texans, and Titans, in that order.

[whomario]

A new german streaming service/group has bought the rights to the NFL here and will not only stream 3-4 games per round and all playoff games but also will stream the redzone channel.

Just wanted to share that happy bit of news :)

[Thomkal]

yay for Germany? :)

[Thomkal]

Tyrod Taylor agrees to contract extension with Buffalo Bills (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17284439/tyrod-taylor-agrees-contract-extension-buffalo-bills)

[stevew]

seems like a reasonable gambit.

[wustin]

Wentz looked awful
Garoppolo looked fine
Bears' second string secondary looked like Rex Grossman could throw 300 yards against it.

[Galaril]

Wow Wentz out with fractured ribs.

[tucker rocky]

Wow Wentz out with fractured ribs.

Lets see what edp445 has to say about it.

*goes to check video*

As I expected, a profantity laced rant. lol!

[Julio Riddols]

I guess you could say he came and Wentz.. He must have been Wentzing in pain on the sideline. You Wentz some, you lose some.

[Suicane75]

He should go back from Wentz he came.

[AlexB]

He should go back from Wentz he came.

Winner:D

[bhlloy]

Welcome to Hollywood

[wustin]

I bet Jerry Jones is happy that they didn't get Nick Foles now. Dak Prescott looking impressive.

[cartman]

My Cowboys looking good in the first half of the first preseason game.

[Julio Riddols]

Prescott really played well, he was doing some veteran safety moving and pump faking along with being accurate and decisive. Looks like a gem so far. This is the kind of stuff Wilson was pulling in his first preseason work.

[bhlloy]

It would be very Cowboys to luck into another good later round QB and totally fail to put a team around him. Like Romo never left.

In all seriousness, he did look really good. Even the first series or two against a Rams front 4 that is supposed to easily be the best in the league.

[JAG]

My Cowboys looking good in the first half of the first preseason game.

Wrong thread. :)

A lot of the defense looked pretty bad, but Dak's performance was a pleasant surprise.

[Arles]

Players should fight NFL like crazy for the 'Al-Jazeera four' - NFL Nation- ESPN (http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/210274/nfl-players-should-fight-al-jazeera-suspensions-like-crazy)

The latest imposition of NFL power over its players goes something like this:

If someone, anyone, makes a public allegation, substantiated or otherwise, recanted or supported, of possible improper conduct, the player must submit to an investigation on the league's terms or face suspension.

That's essentially what the NFL said Monday in a letter to the NFL Players Association as a final warning to four players named in an Al-Jazeera report on the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

So, the whole basis for this "investigation" was pharmacist in Indiana who has since recanted his statement. There's no direct evidence outside of recanted hearsay. All of the players have sent the league a written statement - yet the league now wants each to fly to New York and talk with Goodell. After what the league did to Anthony Hargrove, I can see why these players are a little dubious:

In May 2012, commissioner Roger Goodell suspended four players for their alleged roles in the program: Hargrove (eight games), linebackers Scott Fujita (three games) and Jonathan Vilma (the entire 2012 season), and defensive end Will Smith (four games). Hargrove had left the Saints in '11 for the Eagles and then Seahawks before signing with the Packers in March '12. Green Bay would release him in August. In December, NFL appeals arbitrator Paul Tagliabue would vacate all the Bountygate players’ suspensions and single out Hargrove’s discipline as “unprecedented and unwarranted.”

To many, Tagliabue’s reversal was a victory. To Hargrove and those who worked to clear his name, it was something different altogether. “I can have the lawyer’s satisfaction that we ultimately won the arbitration,” says David Greenspan, who represented the player on behalf of the NFLPA. “But Anthony lost his career in the process.”

Though he would love to be remembered as a good teammate and a Super Bowl champion, Hargrove has not been able to escape the infamy of scandal. On visits back home in New York he hears people joke, “Pay me my money!” Playing flag football, opponents kid, “Ain’t no bounties out here!” He once coached a youth team in Port Charlotte, where he has lived since 2011, but he had to persuade parents that he won’t teach their children to play dirty. “That bounty thing trickled down to my personal life,” Hargrove says. “I can’t go anywhere [without] people referring to that.”

[albionmoonlight]

I think that the NFL is playing a long game here.

In the next CBA, the players are going to push hard to limit Goddell's punishment powers. The league will put up a fight on that, but ultimately give in. And, having used up their big bargaining leverage on that point, the players are not going to get guaranteed contracts, a bigger piece of league revenues, or anything else that the owners really care about.

[Arles]

Some of the local radio guys here in Arizona joked that they should create their own reporting agency and claim they have evidence of Russell Wilson using performance enhancing drugs before the Seahawks-Cards game. It is a pretty slippery slope the league is setting up with this.

[stevew]

I kind of hope Harrison takes the suspension because it will set up a nice court case and will presumably keep him fresh for the second half of the season.

[JPhillips]

Looks like the Bengals last four first round picks will be out when the season starts due to injury. :(

[Thomkal]

Looks like the Bengals last four first round picks will be out when the season starts due to injury. :(

oof that's rough.

[SirFozzie]

Players should fight NFL like crazy for the 'Al-Jazeera four' - NFL Nation- ESPN (http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/210274/nfl-players-should-fight-al-jazeera-suspensions-like-crazy)

So, the whole basis for this "investigation" was pharmacist in Indiana who has since recanted his statement. There's no direct evidence outside of recanted hearsay. All of the players have sent the league a written statement - yet the league now wants each to fly to New York and talk with Goodell. After what the league did to Anthony Hargrove, I can see why these players are a little dubious:

Let's see how the Patriot Haters react now its THEIR teams react to Goodell using sketchy, pre-determined "evidence" to put their players under suspicion and suspension.

I'm pretty sure though, that with Goodell's win over Brady (bleah, makes me want to spit just saying that). That there's nothing the four players can do but suck it up, because as power-mad as Goodell has become, all you're doing is adding "Not fully participating in an NFL investigation" suspensions onto a "Faulty, widely ridiculed evidence" based suspension.

[Arles]

With Brady, when Mort came out and said all the footballs were drastically lower, it seemed like he was guilty. Add in Brady destroying his phone and some of the questionable texts, I atleast see why an investigation was made. However, it was pretty clear once all the facts surfaced that his suspension should have been cut down (if not eliminated altogether). So, Goodell did screw that one up too.

But, in this situation, the entire case against these guys was based on a tape-recorded conversation with an intern named Charlie Sly - who's since completely recanted and said none of it ever happened. There aren't even receipts or slips sent to their wives (a la Peyton). This is a complete nonstarter as there is no evidence, witnesses or even heresay that any of these four used performance-enhancing drugs. Their whole issue with Neal (who doesn't even have a team right now) is that he failed to mention he had been suspended earlier in his career in his statement about the Al Jazeera report. If this went to a court right now, there would be zero evidence the NFL could provide against them. So, basically, the NFL wants this four to come to Washington so that they can fish for some thread to suspend them under. It's pretty unprecedented. Atleast with Boutygate and Brady (both of which the NFL botched by the end), there was atleast some real evidence that something happened at the start of the investigation. There's absolutely nothing here.

Plus, this is a PED investigation - not one on personal conduct. The NFL has never required a player who's failed a drug test or had other PED suspicion actually talk to the league as part of their investigation. They check out the drug test or evidence provided - then rule on a suspension. As a reporter stated:
I don’t want to get too mired in the details, but the league in its letter to Peppers and Matthews this week invoked Article 46 of its collective bargaining agreement to force the players to interview. Article 46 allows the commissioner to discipline players for “conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football.”

The league’s personal-conduct policy explicitly covers “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” I read it. It compels players to interview in an investigation. I also read the PED policy. It doesn’t compel anything other than drug tests.

The personal-conduct policy is mostly about brushes with the law, including explicitly covering arrests “relating to steroids and prohibited substances.” Neither Peppers nor Matthews was arrested, so this case doesn’t fall under the personal-conduct policy.

[Arles]

I think that the NFL is playing a long game here.

In the next CBA, the players are going to push hard to limit Goddell's punishment powers. The league will put up a fight on that, but ultimately give in. And, having used up their big bargaining leverage on that point, the players are not going to get guaranteed contracts, a bigger piece of league revenues, or anything else that the owners really care about.
And I'm wondering if the NFLPA is playing possum here and waiting for the NFL to take an action - so that they can finally take the NFL to court and win (potentially setting them up for a better argument at the next CBA).

[CU Tiger]

I think the next CBA costs the NFL a season.
I think it will have massive outfall. I think it will be akin to the fallout around baseball and the 94-95 strike.

Further I think it will result in the initial further surge on college football popularity which will prove to be the tipping point for the beginning of the fall of the NCAA as we know it.

In short, I feel like Roger Goodell will single handendly destroy the enterprise that is football as we currently know it in America.

I know that sounds dramatic, over the top and preposterous to some. But I predict it will come closer to reality than fiction, and just putting it out there so someone can pull this up in 5 years and either ridicule me or betow praise upon me and name me the sportstrodamus of FOFC.

[Warhammer]

I think the next CBA costs the NFL a season.
I think it will have massive outfall. I think it will be akin to the fallout around baseball and the 94-95 strike.

Further I think it will result in the initial further surge on college football popularity which will prove to be the tipping point for the beginning of the fall of the NCAA as we know it.

In short, I feel like Roger Goodell will single handendly destroy the enterprise that is football as we currently know it in America.

I know that sounds dramatic, over the top and preposterous to some. But I predict it will come closer to reality than fiction, and just putting it out there so someone can pull this up in 5 years and either ridicule me or betow praise upon me and name me the sportstrodamus of FOFC.

I think there are more people around like me as well who watch football, but have become increasingly disenchanted with it over the years that will jump ship.

[flere-imsaho]

I know that sounds dramatic, over the top and preposterous to some. But I predict it will come closer to reality than fiction, and just putting it out there so someone can pull this up in 5 years and either ridicule me or betow praise upon me and name me the sportstrodamus of FOFC.

Honestly, I think you're more right than not, especially if the next CBA negotiations get messy.

[Logan]

I think the NFL can sit out a year and be just fine.

[Arles]

I think it's going to be extremely interesting to see how things go with the next CBA. There is a legit chance that the NFLPA will only accept a complete neutering of Goodell's powers on discipline. Then, we will see how Goodell handles it. He can either agree to it (and setup some kind of discipline advisory board/arbitration) or let his ego take control and make it nasty. It's pretty clear that having a separate group in charge of discipline is better for the league and the owners. Giving in on this issue really does little to impact the NFL's revenue and allows them a chip to play to keep non-guaranteed contracts and other revenue issues. So, if Goodell starts fighting this, do the owners at some point cut bait with him, bring in a new person that agrees to it and end up keeping more money.

[Ned Doolittle]

Then what's the point of having a commissioner? Other than having someone make tons of millions of dollars a year in salary.

[Arles]

Then what's the point of having a commissioner? Other than having someone make tons of millions of dollars a year in salary.
After watching what Stern and Goodell have done with absolute power on discipline, I think it's reasonable to have an arbitrator involved. Maybe the commissioner suggests a penalty, the arbitrator reviews it and makes a ruling. IE, you have deflate gate. The investigation completes and NFL releases their report. Goodell recommends a 4-game suspension for Brady and a loss of a 1st round pick. The arbitrator (agreed to by the NFLPA and the NFL) looks at the evidence and rules that the case wasn't quite as airtight, but it does appear there was some effort made by Brady to deflate balls. He reduces the suspension to 1 game and the draft pick to a 3rd. No courts, no 2 years of "the NFL hates us" vs "Goodell is Kraft's boy" - just a simple result by an impartial observer. It is essentially what ended up happening on BountyGate when Tagliabue came in.

[flere-imsaho]

Then what's the point of having a commissioner? Other than having someone make tons of millions of dollars a year in salary.

Identify, negotiate and sign revenue deals.

[dawgfan]

Then what's the point of having a commissioner? Other than having someone make tons of millions of dollars a year in salary.
The commissioner represents the interests of the owners, the union head represents the interests of the NFLPA.

[CU Tiger]

The commissioner represents the interests of the owners, the union head represents the interests of the NFLPA.

That is how its evolved and manifested itself, that was never the intent.

The Union Head should represent the players. An Owner's rep should represent the Owner's. The commissioner should represent the LEAGUE. If the commissioner is the owner's rep it opens quite the quagmire if an owner needs to be disciplined...or say a group of owners.


I have a friend who is a senior player in the league and a team players rep. If he is to be believed the next round will be beyond ugly.
He says fully guaranteed contracts, increased revenue sharing, and reduced work years are non-starters.

[JPhillips]

The players will eventually give on guaranteed contracts because the owners never will.

As long as the owners appoint the commissioner, he or she is going to be in their pocket. I think a good argument can be made that everyone would benefit from a more neutral commish, but as long as the owners are the ones picking they'll always make sure that person works for them.

[Logan]

I have a friend who is a senior player in the league and a team players rep. If he is to be believed the next round will be beyond ugly.
He says fully guaranteed contracts, increased revenue sharing, and reduced work years are non-starters.

When has this not supposedly been the case? In the NFL especially, the owners will always have the advantage because they can do nothing for two years and see their franchise values skyrocket whenever the deal is inevitably signed. Is your senior friend willing to waste two of the final high earning years of his career just for the benefit of future players?

I'm not saying it's right. Just seems much closer to the reality of how it will actually play out.

[Atocep]

Yeah, the owners will win the next CBA. There's no chance in hell there will be fully guaranteed contracts.

The owners will throw the players a bone by removing Goodell from his arbitration position and tweak the way franchise player deals work. The players that can afford sitting out a season will eventually lose to the vast majority of the NFLPA that can't.

[dawgfan]

That is how its evolved and manifested itself, that was never the intent.
Because for a long time the players had no say in things. When they unionized, the balance shifted.

The Union Head should represent the players. An Owner's rep should represent the Owner's. The commissioner should represent the LEAGUE. If the commissioner is the owner's rep it opens quite the quagmire if an owner needs to be disciplined...or say a group of owners.
Only if the commissioner is selected by both the owners and players.

[CU Tiger]

I get it, its always contentious.
I think this round is worse.

Remember baseball and basketball have guaranteed contracts and they don't make as much combined as football. You also have a ground swell of players finally learning that their occupational health risks have been intentionally hid from them by their employer.

They may budge. Time will tell. I predict a complete lost season. Which if I am not mistaken triggers a TV deal void and reneg.

[Atocep]

I get it, its always contentious.
I think this round is worse.

Remember baseball and basketball have guaranteed contracts and they don't make as much combined as football. You also have a ground swell of players finally learning that their occupational health risks have been intentionally hid from them by their employer.

They may budge. Time will tell. I predict a complete lost season. Which if I am not mistaken triggers a TV deal void and reneg.

The owners have over a billion set aside to withstand a prolonged work stoppage. They estimate they can survive at least 2 years and a renegotiated TV deal likely just means more money in the long run.

The majority of NFL players can't survive 2 years without their pay. I don't know how much the NFLPA has set aside for a work stoppage, but it's probably not 2 years worth and when those funds run out deals tend to happen really quickly.

[Logan]

You also have a ground swell of players finally learning that their occupational health risks have been intentionally hid from them by their employer.

All the more reason to not lose a season of their primes.

And yes baseball has guaranteed contracts but teams also have control of players for their first 6 full years as a professional, and through those first 3-4 years they earn basically nothing and get to stay in motels and travel by bus. In the NFL, outside of 32 guys (well, 31 in some cases), every rookie gets a shot at free agency within 4 years and they earn pretty good salaries comparatively in the meantime. Are they willing to extend their rookie contracts by a couple of years if it helps them get guaranteed deals?

I mean, it's still not happening, but I guess it's at least something to bring to the table.

[henry296]

All the more reason to not lose a season of their primes.

And yes baseball has guaranteed contracts but teams also have control of players for their first 6 full years as a professional, and through those first 3-4 years they earn basically nothing and get to stay in motels and travel by bus. In the NFL, outside of 32 guys (well, 31 in some cases), every rookie gets a shot at free agency within 4 years and they earn pretty good salaries comparatively in the meantime. Are they willing to extend their rookie contracts by a couple of years if it helps them get guaranteed deals?

I mean, it's still not happening, but I guess it's at least something to bring to the table.

In baseball, it is probably closer to 9 years on average the team controls. The first 3 in the minors working for peanuts. The first 3 years in MLB making less than their worth for many (~500K) and then 3 years of arbitration. Most aren't free agents until their late 20s.

[Logan]

In baseball, it is probably closer to 9 years on average the team controls. The first 3 in the minors working for peanuts. The first 3 years in MLB making less than their worth for many (~500K) and then 3 years of arbitration. Most aren't free agents until their late 20s.

You're right, I had the number 6 in my head but I was probably thinking of those last 6 years you're referring to. I should have realized based on it not really adding up with average draft age and around when guys typically hit FA.

[AlexB]

I missed this completely before. How in the world did he get himself into this situation?

Former NFL player Darren Sharper sentenced to 18 years in drugging and rape case | Sport | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/former-nfl-star-darren-sharper-drugs-rape-jail-time)

[stevew]

Glad they rejected the previous joke sentence of only 9 years.

[albionmoonlight]

for those wondering, there is no parole in the federal system.

One can earn good-time credit, which is approximately a 15% reduction. And one can be eligible to spend the last 6 months of a sentence in a halfway house.

All of which means he will serve ~15 years of actual time.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

I just looked at his plea agreement. He agreed that this sentence would be appropriate, so I don't see any real avenue for him to appeal.

[Logan]

I missed this completely before. How in the world did he get himself into this situation?

Former NFL player Darren Sharper sentenced to 18 years in drugging and rape case | Sport | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/former-nfl-star-darren-sharper-drugs-rape-jail-time)

I think he got into the situation by drugging and raping women in a serial manner

[Kodos]

Bill Cosby would be proud.

[Dutch]

I think he got into the situation by drugging and raping women in a serial manner

That should probably be 18 years per victim.

[Butter]

This Tyler Boyd, rookie WR for the Bengals, looks like a player. Maybe lacks the ability to separate, but I'm liking him a lot so far.

[JPhillips]

If only they can survive the injuries/suspension. It looks like Week one they'll be without RT/TE1/TE2/WR2/T3 and WLB/CB3 and their 1st(CB) and 4th(DT) round picks from the draft.

[Logan]

This Tyler Boyd, rookie WR for the Bengals, looks like a player. Maybe lacks the ability to separate, but I'm liking him a lot so far.

He was great in college in an offense with limited talent around him.

[NobodyHere]

Is it just me or could this headline have been phrased better...


Pete Carroll on sacks: 'We need to get the ball out' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000687471/article/pete-carroll-on-sacks-we-need-to-get-the-ball-out)

[stevew]

Pittsburgh Steelers player rep to NFL players -- Save up for 2021 lockout (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17366384/pittsburgh-steelers-player-rep-nfl-players-save-2021-lockout)

Of course I doubt that many players will actually heed this advice.

[albionmoonlight]

Pittsburgh Steelers player rep to NFL players -- Save up for 2021 lockout (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17366384/pittsburgh-steelers-player-rep-nfl-players-save-2021-lockout)

Of course I doubt that many players will actually heed this advice.

Yup. If the players could credibly threaten to miss an entire season, then the owners would feel enough financial pressure to come to the table.

But the vast majority of players will never be in that position. So the owners will have all the leverage.

[bhlloy]

So the kicker the Bucs drafted in the second round and who was one of the most accurate in NCAA history can't hit over 50% of his PAT's to save his life right now and is getting booed by his own fans?

Obviously early days but man, that has the potential to be an all time hilarious pick, even more than it already was spending a second on a kicker.

[thesloppy]

So the kicker the Bucs drafted in the second round and who was one of the most accurate in NCAA history can't hit over 50% of his PAT's to save his life right now and is getting booed by his own fans?

Obviously early days but man, that has the potential to be an all time hilarious pick, even more than it already was spending a second on a kicker.

Yuss, I am sadly loving that whole situation. Dude suddenly can't kick for shit, and it seems pretty fair to say that it's at least partially due to the pressure of being drafted so ridiculously high. That's some prime schadenfreude.

[Dutch]

Yuss, I am sadly loving that whole situation. Dude suddenly can't kick for shit, and it seems pretty fair to say that it's at least partially due to the pressure of being drafted so ridiculously high. That's some prime schadenfreude.

Somewhere John McKay is rolling over in his grave.

A pre-season kicker back in the late 70's during an interview - "I don't like the pressure of this, the coaches are making me nervous."

John McKay - "You tell that kicker I plan on attending all the games."

:)

[Atocep]

If we could have only had Hard Knocks with John McKay.

[Julio Riddols]

So the kicker the Bucs drafted in the second round and who was one of the most accurate in NCAA history can't hit over 50% of his PAT's to save his life right now and is getting booed by his own fans?

Obviously early days but man, that has the potential to be an all time hilarious pick, even more than it already was spending a second on a kicker.

Only time you should ever draft a kicker is in a really weak draft class in round 7. Crazy how many teams don't get this. Drafted kickers are not very well represented in the all time lists. If Janikowski didn't have a huge leg he probably would have been cut at some point early in his career and considered one of the worst picks of all time.

[wustin]

I wonder how much the Raiders regret passing up on Shaun Alexander for Seabass.

[dawgfan]

Thoughts on the stalemate between Bosa and the Chargers?

[thesloppy]

Thoughts on the stalemate between Bosa and the Chargers?

Seems like they're both being a little too rigid, but the Chargers have enough of a history of pulling bull-headed stuff with players that I guess I'm inclined to side with Bosa?

[JPhillips]

The Chargers are idiots for making such a big deal over comparatively small stuff. I'd love to see him hold out for the year, but his career is short and he'll probably cave. He'll be behind and will hate his employers, so he'll probably never develop the way he might have.

[bhlloy]

The Chargers are a piece of shit, cheapskate, two bit organization, and this is coming from a nominal Chargers fan. The interesting thing is Bosa's dad played in the NFL, I wonder if he needs the money. I'd love for him to sit out, sign a free agent deal and turn out to be really good, even though I wasn't a huge fan of the pick. This and the Weddle garbage is probably the final nail in the coffin of me giving a shit about them, to be honest. They seem to be actively trying to be the team in the NFL nobody wants to play for.

The second thing that occurs to me is what a brilliant example and precedent you set as you try to negotiate for a new stadium and failing that, hope that another city will pay you a billion to move there.

[mckerney]

The Chargers are a piece of shit, cheapskate, two bit organization, and this is coming from a nominal Chargers fan. The interesting thing is Bosa's dad played in the NFL, I wonder if he needs the money. I'd love for him to sit out, sign a free agent deal and turn out to be really good, even though I wasn't a huge fan of the pick..

If he doesn't sign he'll reenter the draft next year where he could be drafted by any team other than the Chargers.

[dawgfan]

The Chargers are idiots for making such a big deal over comparatively small stuff. I'd love to see him hold out for the year, but his career is short and he'll probably cave. He'll be behind and will hate his employers, so he'll probably never develop the way he might have.
The irony is he's holding out for more guaranteed money upfront, and yet he stands to get none of it if he sits out. A year lost is money he'll almost certainly never get back.

The Chargers have the leverage here. While it would certainly suck for them to get nothing out of the #3 pick, it's not like top picks don't bust, so the difference between meeting his demands vs. being willing to antagonize him and possibly lose him is probably less damaging to them than sitting out will be to Bosa's career.

I'd love to see NFL players get better deals, but they just don't seem to have the collective will to wage the kind of fight that would get them closer to NBA and MLB players rights.

[thesloppy]

Just on a gut level, while some organizations are known for being cantankerous, and/or picking fights with other (multi-millionaire) owners or the league/front office, the Chargers would seemingly prefer to repeatedly pick their fights with individual kids coming out of college, which just seems kinda shitty.

[Logan]

The irony is he's holding out for more guaranteed money upfront, and yet he stands to get none of it if he sits out. A year lost is money he'll almost certainly never get back.

The Chargers have the leverage here. While it would certainly suck for them to get nothing out of the #3 pick, it's not like top picks don't bust, so the difference between meeting his demands vs. being willing to antagonize him and possibly lose him is probably less damaging to them than sitting out will be to Bosa's career.

I'd love to see NFL players get better deals, but they just don't seem to have the collective will to wage the kind of fight that would get them closer to NBA and MLB players rights.

Rookies sit out their first year in the league all the time. Dante Fowler did it from the same #3 overall spot last year. Except instead of being laid up for months and then needing to rehab and build up strength to get back to where he was, Bosa can keep doing his normal workouts and try and get faster/stronger. The loss of game action will hurt, but I don't know how that can possibly be worse than effectively passing on the #3 overall pick in a draft. You're talking about pissing away franchise-changing value.

I'm not really sure about your "better deal" comment. Isn't this primarily about offset language in the event he gets cut which the Chargers seem to be a much bigger stickler about than any other franchise?

[JPhillips]

I'm fascinated with the Jets and their QB situation. Right now it looks like they'll keep four QBs. Fitz is a lock, as is Hackenburg. Bryce Petty has looked good in the preseason and likely has no chance of making it to the practice squad. That leaves Gino. In some ways he's the most likely to go, but he's also the only one after Fitz that has any experience. He's clearly the number two QB in practice and games.

All the team reporters around here are saying they think the Jets will keep all four. When was the last time a team had four QBs on the 53 man roster?

[Dutch]

If we could have only had Hard Knocks with John McKay.

It would've been glorious. :)

[dawgfan]

Rookies sit out their first year in the league all the time. Dante Fowler did it from the same #3 overall spot last year. Except instead of being laid up for months and then needing to rehab and build up strength to get back to where he was, Bosa can keep doing his normal workouts and try and get faster/stronger. The loss of game action will hurt, but I don't know how that can possibly be worse than effectively passing on the #3 overall pick in a draft. You're talking about pissing away franchise-changing value.
No doubt it's a loss to get no value from the #3 overall pick. But teams often make poor picks, and it's not that uncommon to get little value from such a high draft pick. If the Chargers have drafted well, they can absorb the loss.

Bosa on the other hand stands to not get paid for this season, and paid a very large amount of money (2nd most of any rookie). Yes, he can work-out and stay in shape and re-enter the 2017 draft and possibly get drafted as high, and perhaps make a bit more money thanks to inflation. But neither of those are guarantees, and while the year off wouldn't put the kind of wear and tear on his body that playing would, his body will still age. This year lost with no pay will not necessarily be picked up at the back end of his career - sitting out this year wouldn't necessarily guarantee his body could hold up an extra year. And that doesn't even bring in present value of money into the equation - the money he doesn't make now means he'll have to make quite a bit more in the future to offset.

I'm not really sure about your "better deal" comment. Isn't this primarily about offset language in the event he gets cut which the Chargers seem to be a much bigger stickler about than any other franchise?
I'm talking about the much worse deal that the NFLPA has with the NFL than the MLBPA does with MLB and NBAPA has with the NBA. Unlike those two leagues, NFL players have far less certainty in payment when they sign contracts due to the contracts not being fully guaranteed.

[CraigSca]

Raiders have filed a trademark for "Las Vegas Raiders".

I wonder - will a team that resides in Las Vegas have a better home field advantage due to the potential for visiting teams taking advantage of the opportunities in Las Vegas?

I suppose this would be bigger for sports other than football (where I would assume there would be a curfew). Perhaps a potential NBA team would see a better return?

[Kodos]

If you go to Vegas, you gotta rebrand as the Gamblers.

I hope if Bosa re-enters the draft next year that teams are wary of picking him and he drops to late in the 1st. And gets less pay. He has a very good offer on the table.

[JPhillips]

The more I think about this the more I wonder if SD is purposefully sabotaging these negotiations so that voters are more likely to vote down a stadium deal which would open up a path to LA.

[Logan]

No doubt it's a loss to get no value from the #3 overall pick. But teams often make poor picks, and it's not that uncommon to get little value from such a high draft pick. If the Chargers have drafted well, they can absorb the loss.

But what are they willing to absorb this loss for? Offset language in a rookie contract that will only come into play if he's cut before his 4th year and he passes through waivers without getting claimed? Or holding out over paying $2MM in a signing bonus now vs later?

If you told me Bosa got to minicamp as an unsigned rookie and they observed some kind of ridiculous deterioration in performance that scared them off...like if it became clear to them that he was on PEDs previously and would never be able to get through the NFL's testing program, I could understand taking a hard line on this. I would still think it's pretty fucking stupid of course but that would be their decision to live with.

[dawgfan]

But what are they willing to absorb this loss for? Offset language in a rookie contract that will only come into play if he's cut before his 4th year and he passes through waivers without getting claimed? Or holding out over paying $2MM in a signing bonus now vs later?
Don't get me wrong, I think the Chargers are likely being petty here. Is it any coincidence they seem to have so many issues with rookie contracts? Whatever precedence they're trying to preserve would seem to be outweighed by the damage in goodwill they foster with their players and the potential to get nothing out of this #3 overall pick.

That said, I still think they have more leverage in this situation, that Bosa has more to lose here. I guess it all boils down to how much he's willing to risk fighting for principle.

[CU Tiger]

The interesting thing is Bosa's dad played in the NFL,


Havent tried to confirm but heard on the radio yesterday that Bosa's dad held out his rookie year and missed something like 4 games. Like father like son?

Rookies sit out their first year in the league all the time. Dante Fowler did it from the same #3 overall spot last year. Except instead of being laid up for months and then needing to rehab and build up strength to get back to where he was, Bosa can keep doing his normal workouts and try and get faster/stronger. The loss of game action will hurt, but I don't know how that can possibly be worse than effectively passing on the #3 overall pick in a draft. You're talking about pissing away franchise-changing value.


Fowler got paid though, and more importantly he got a year in service. For current NFL players it is all about that second contract. that is where this hurts Bosa in my eyes, not because he loses a year on the front end. He loses a year of Vet money on the back end.

[CrescentMoonie]

Havent tried to confirm but heard on the radio yesterday that Bosa's dad held out his rookie year and missed something like 4 games. Like father like son?

87 was a strike season. Regulars played 13 games, scabs played 2, Bosa played 12, so he missed one week at most. May have held out though.

[Thomkal]

So who had the over/under on Romo lasting three plays in the pre-season before getting hurt?

Tony Romo exits early after hit from behind - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000690366/article/tony-romo-exits-early-after-hit-from-behind)

And in other Dallas news Ezekiel Elliott looked nice on the field last night...not so good off the field:

Jerry Jones of Dallas Cowboys -- Ezekiel Elliott's pot store visit 'not good' (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17394875/jerry-jones-dallas-cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-pot-store-visit-not-good)

Just stupid on his part, whether it was legal in the state or not, its not legal in the NFL.

[JonInMiddleGA]

S
And in other Dallas news Ezekiel Elliott looked nice on the field last night...not so good off the field:

Jerry Jones of Dallas Cowboys -- Ezekiel Elliott's pot store visit 'not good' (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17394875/jerry-jones-dallas-cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-pot-store-visit-not-good)

Just stupid on his part, whether it was legal in the state or not, its not legal in the NFL.

Further proof, that shit will indeed make you stupid.

;)

[Thomkal]

Further proof, that shit will indeed make you stupid.

;)

:):D

[miami_fan]

Further proof, that shit will indeed make you stupid.

;)

Are you talking about the stuff that Ezekial may be using or the stuff Jerry may be taking?;)

[Logan]

NFL General Managers Laughing at Chargers for Ruining Joey Bosa's Rookie Season | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2659686-nfl-general-managers-laughing-at-chargers-for-ruining-joey-bosas-rookie-season)

[dawgfan]

NFL General Managers Laughing at Chargers for Ruining Joey Bosa's Rookie Season | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2659686-nfl-general-managers-laughing-at-chargers-for-ruining-joey-bosas-rookie-season)
Typically poor Bleacher Report content. Check the contradiction in these successive paragraphs:

They will fight because they are a family of fighters—his mother is resilient and he comes from a family of NFL players. The family is also smart. They know the NFL's collectively bargained machinery is against them. They will lose this battle.

And Bosa has lost a rookie season. It's over and it's the Chargers' fault.

(emphasis mine)

So if the Bosa's knew going into this they would lose, who exactly is at fault here for this dragging out so long and him potentially ruining his rookie season?

[cuervo72]

Robert...does not look good.

[CU Tiger]

Robert...does not look good.

Neither does Cam, fwiw.

[Logan]

Typically poor Bleacher Report content. Check the contradiction in these successive paragraphs:

(emphasis mine)

So if the Bosa's knew going into this they would lose, who exactly is at fault here for this dragging out so long and him potentially ruining his rookie season?

Where is there a contradiction? Bosa lost by being drafted by the Chargers, the only team that has historically tried to pull this. That's why it's the Chargers fault.

If Bosa signs and gets his money and earns his service year credit, he's lost the ability to make an impact this year while the Chargers blew 25% of the time they get a potentially elite player at a below market price.

[kingfc22]

Neither does Cam, fwiw.

Neither does Kaepernick, but he's been crap for awhile now. To top it all of he's now protesting the national anthem while collection multi-million dollar checks afforded to him by the same system which awards folks who win the genetic lottery. Just go away already Colin. You're done.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To top it all of he's now protesting the national anthem while collection multi-million dollar checks afforded to him by the same system which awards folks who win the genetic lottery. Just go away already Colin. You're done.

And therein lies the problem with the whole (thankfully small) movement about how "athletes need to get involved": a lot of them are completely useless f'n idiots.

The only thing I've got for this clown now is a sincere desire for him to suffer a CEI and for any team that employees him to go winless.

Nothing says "engage the fan base" quite like engendering that sort of reaction.

[miami_fan]

Tony Romo of Dallas Cowboys out with broken bone in back (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17404354/tony-romo-dallas-cowboys-broken-bone-back)

Let the Prescott Era begin.

[Thomkal]

Tony Romo of Dallas Cowboys out with broken bone in back (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17404354/tony-romo-dallas-cowboys-broken-bone-back)

Let the Prescott Era begin.

career over?

[NobodyHere]

career over?

Nah, I think even with the Cowboys Dak has some good years ahead of him :p

[Thomkal]

;)Nah, I think even with the Cowboys Dak has some good years ahead of him :p

;)

[dawgfan]

Where is there a contradiction? Bosa lost by being drafted by the Chargers, the only team that has historically tried to pull this. That's why it's the Chargers fault.

If Bosa signs and gets his money and earns his service year credit, he's lost the ability to make an impact this year while the Chargers blew 25% of the time they get a potentially elite player at a below market price.
If the family "knew" that the Chargers would end up winning in this fight, then why have the fight in the first place? Why damage his rookie season and possibly impact his development and ability to really strike it big with his 2nd contract? Just to make some point that won't really be a point if the Chargers end up signing him to their terms?

Saying this was strictly the fault of the Chargers is asinine. Both sides have plenty of blame to own up to.

[Dutch]

I will be forced to root (well, not really) for the Cowboys because of Prescott. I just hope he translates well to the pros.

[larrymcg421]

Neither does Kaepernick, but he's been crap for awhile now. To top it all of he's now protesting the national anthem while collection multi-million dollar checks afforded to him by the same system which awards folks who win the genetic lottery. Just go away already Colin. You're done.

This argument makes no sense to me. I can see why people would be upset with his form of protest, but the idea that he shouldn't be doing it because he's a multi-millionaire is ridiculous. Should only unsuccessful people protest injustice?

[Jon]

This argument makes no sense to me. I can see why people would be upset with his form of protest, but the idea that he shouldn't be doing it because he's a multi-millionaire is ridiculous. Should only unsuccessful people protest injustice?

It's really no different than what Tim Tebow did. There's to much stuff going on to worry about either person doing their thing, especially since it's not disruptive.

[nol]

This argument makes no sense to me. I can see why people would be upset with his form of protest, but the idea that he shouldn't be doing it because he's a multi-millionaire is ridiculous. Should only unsuccessful people protest injustice?

ping: molson

[wustin]

This argument makes no sense to me. I can see why people would be upset with his form of protest, but the idea that he shouldn't be doing it because he's a multi-millionaire is ridiculous. Should only unsuccessful people protest injustice?

It certainly doesn't help your ethos if you're preaching about blacks and people of color being treated unfairly in this country if you were adopted and raised in a white household. Also doesn't help if you were able to play organized football before the age of 10 thanks to those parents.

[cuervo72]

if you were adopted and raised in a white household

He IS still black though, right? I assume he generally goes through life as a black man, interacting with a majority of folks who don't know he was raised by white people?

I'm not sure the logic of having to be disadvantaged to lobby on behalf of someone works. I think there are plenty of peoples in the US who lobby for their brethren overseas, for example.

[JPhillips]

Kaep is rich, therefore, there is no injustice.

[digamma]

Yeah, I think it is generally called using your power/fame/influence to raise awareness.

Look, criticizing the method or means is absolutely fine. But invalidating the messenger based on status doesn't hold up.

[BillJasper]

I may not agree with how Kaepernick is going about his protest, but it is his protest to make. I'm more offended with how he's played the last year or so.

[JonInMiddleGA]

87 was a strike season. Regulars played 13 games, scabs played 2, Bosa played 12, so he missed one week at most. May have held out though.

41 day holdout, per this original article from way back when.

Bosa Signs - tribunedigital-sunsentinel (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1987-09-02/sports/8703110179_1_john-bosa-charley-winner-dolphins-training-camp)

And here's a bit of fun dot-to-dot for you

On a 2009 internet list of biggest draft busts in Miami history, John Bosa is a contender

1988 - DE Eric Kumerow (1st round, 16th overall)
This pass rusher out of Ohio State played just three seasons with the Dolphins, amassed 5 career sacks, and then never played in an NFL game again.

1987 - DE John Bosa (1st round, 16th overall)
I guess the Dolphins felt like they had to take another DE in '88 because their 1st round pick in '87 - John Bosa - was a failure. Bosa played in 31 career games and totaled 7 sacks. And, yes, he was out of football in just 3 years.

Why did I also list the next candidate on the list you may ask? Because of this Wikipedia fun fact

John's wife, the former Cheryl Kumerow, is the sister of former Dolphins teammate Eric Kumerow.


edit to add: So the plot thickens a bit. We have a mom who has seen both husband & brother hit the league & basically flop, who says weeks ago that she wishes they'd have just "pulled an Eli Manning". (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/07/chargers-joey-bosa-mom-holdout/) Not that she worries the son might be the next big bust or anything.

[larrymcg421]

edit to add: So the plot thickens a bit. We have a mom who has seen both husband & brother hit the league & basically flop, who says weeks ago that she wishes they'd have just "pulled an Eli Manning". (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/07/chargers-joey-bosa-mom-holdout/) Not that she worries the son might be the next big bust or anything.

Those names are painful enough for this Dolphins fan to hear again, but this quote at the end is so ridiculous. It's not like they were drafted by a crappy team. When Bosa was drafted, the Dolphins had been to 2 of the last 4 Superbowls and only had 1 losing season in 16 years. Then when Kumerow was drafted, they had gone 8-7 the previous year (7-5 without the scrub games). Offerdahl was drafted in 1986 and had a solid career (5 Pro Bowls). Kumerow and Bosa just sucked.

[bob]

Trevor Siemian, a former seventh-round pick, will start at quarterback for the defending Super Bowl champions when the season opens.

[CU Tiger]

This argument makes no sense to me. I can see why people would be upset with his form of protest, but the idea that he shouldn't be doing it because he's a multi-millionaire is ridiculous. Should only unsuccessful people protest injustice?

To me the money is relevant ONLY in this manner. He refuses to stand for the anthem of his Country. Thereby stating this country is inadequate to his standards. His financial means would allow him to, you know, move out of this country and find a better one if it is so bad.


I mean play this out on a smaller scale in a mental exercise.

Kid from the ghetto busts ass and does well. Chooses to remain living in the ghetto because it is home. Goes on a rant and protests because there is crime in his neighborhood and his house gets broken in
Stupid, right?
We'd all say, "Duh you live in the ghetto. Move!"

Same here for me. Yep the country sucks. You figured it out. Go to a better one.

If he resided in a lower tax bracket I would feel some...not sure the right word...sympathy to his plight because he couldnt afford to move. But kap can literally choose to live in any country in the world. Get to packing, bud.


Now my post does not suggest that there aren't equality issues in the country. I think there are. It also doens't suggest that we, collective, shouldn't be doing more about them. We should. But to deounce this country as a whole and intentionally disrespect Her, on the whole, because of that issue. Get the hell out of here. Move a GDAF on the way.

Let's call this what it is. Kap is stinking up the joint and he is begging for attention to remain relevant.

[ISiddiqui]

That's silly though. That's implying that one can't initiate change from within the system. That someone can't decry the system while wanting their home to be better. Why did Martin Luther King, Jr. continue to live in Atlanta while complaining about racism? Why do Catholics continue to stay in the Church while complaining about the Church's response to child abuse?

[larrymcg421]

To me the money is relevant ONLY in this manner. He refuses to stand for the anthem of his Country. Thereby stating this country is inadequate to his standards. His financial means would allow him to, you know, move out of this country and find a better one if it is so bad.


I mean play this out on a smaller scale in a mental exercise.

Kid from the ghetto busts ass and does well. Chooses to remain living in the ghetto because it is home. Goes on a rant and protests because there is crime in his neighborhood and his house gets broken in
Stupid, right?
We'd all say, "Duh you live in the ghetto. Move!"

Same here for me. Yep the country sucks. You figured it out. Go to a better one.

If he resided in a lower tax bracket I would feel some...not sure the right word...sympathy to his plight because he couldnt afford to move. But kap can literally choose to live in any country in the world. Get to packing, bud.


That's always the very worst argument in response to a protest. Just because someone doesn't like something going on in the country doesn't mean they don't want to be here. Maybe they want to make it better. Moving doesn't accomplish that.

[Atocep]

That's always the very worst argument in response to a protest. Just because someone doesn't like something going on in the country doesn't mean they don't want to be here. Maybe they want to make it better. Moving doesn't accomplish that.

My problem is sitting through the national anthem doesn't accomplish anything positive. The only thing it does is divide people further.

With the money and fame he has there are countless ways he can make a difference, and he may be doing those things (I don't know), but sitting through the national anthem is more of a "look at me" thing than a "look at this situation" thing.

[larrymcg421]

My problem is sitting through the national anthem doesn't accomplish anything positive. The only thing it does is divide people further.

With the money and fame he has there are countless ways he can make a difference, and he may be doing those things (I don't know), but sitting through the national anthem is more of a "look at me" thing than a "look at this situation" thing.

Right and as most people have said here, it's understandable to have a problem with his form of protest. Most of us are taking issue with the argument that he shouldn't protest because he's a millionaire or he should move if he doesn't like it. The latter is especially one of my least favorite arguments, because it's just a variation of the "if you're gay and want to get married, then move to Massachusetts" stupid argument that people kept bringing up during the gay marriage debate.

[JPhillips]

For a guy committed to voting for Trump, why don't you find a better country? Why would you want to live in a country that never wins and is run by stupid leaders?

[heybrad]

My problem is sitting through the national anthem doesn't accomplish anything positive. The only thing it does is divide people further.

With the money and fame he has there are countless ways he can make a difference, and he may be doing those things (I don't know), but sitting through the national anthem is more of a "look at me" thing than a "look at this situation" thing.
This is where I'm at with this. He wanted to shine the spotlight and get attention on the issue to start the conversation. So start it. Outside of his comment that cosmetologists are better trained than cops (which sounds moronic to me) what else is he adding to the conversation? Don't just say there's a problem and then not follow up with some kind of action.

[dawgfan]

My problem is sitting through the national anthem doesn't accomplish anything positive. The only thing it does is divide people further.

With the money and fame he has there are countless ways he can make a difference, and he may be doing those things (I don't know), but sitting through the national anthem is more of a "look at me" thing than a "look at this situation" thing.
I dunno - it's got us (and presumably many, many football fans) talking about it right?

I think this vet nails it (spoiler tagged due to length):

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

I've been away from the internet all day.

I came home from a family picnic on the Blackwater River to find my inbox, as usual, overflowing like a ripe Port-O-Pottie.

One of the first messages I read was about 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, quoted above, who last Friday night at the beginning of a preseason game suddenly decided to become the most hated man in America du jour by deliberately not standing for the National Anthem.

Yes, that's right, a football player didn't stand for the National Anthem.

As you know, this means Kaepernick is scum, a horrible human being, a likely member of ISIS, a Muslim terrorist, a black thug, a communist, a socialist (and not the cool share your weed Bernie Sanders kind of socialist but the Red Brigade kind of Socialist who sleeps under a poster of Chairman Mao), a radical, a Black Panther, and he probably has Fidel Castro's phone number in his contact favorites.

Yeah. Okay.

I answered the message and went on to the next one.

The next message was about Kaepernick. As was the next one. And the next one. And...

They all begin pretty much the same way: Jim, AS A VETERAN, what do you think about this? Well?

Let me answer all the messages at once
__________

AS A VETERAN, what do I think about Colin Kaepernick's decision to sit during the National Anthem?

As a veteran?

Very well, as a veteran then, this is what I believe:

The very first thing I learned in the military is this: Respect is a two-way street. If you want respect, true respect, sincere respect, then you have to GIVE IT.

If you want respect, you have to do the things necessary to earn it each and every single day. There are no short cuts and no exceptions.

Respect cannot be compelled.

Respect cannot be bought.

Respect cannot be inherited.

Respect cannot be demanded at the muzzle of a gun or by beating it into somebody or by shaming them into it. Can not. You might get what you think is respect, but it's not. It's only the appearance of respect. It's fear, it's groveling, it's not respect. Far, far too many people both in and out of the military, people who should emphatically know better, do not understand this simple fact: there is an enormous difference between fear and respect.

Respect has to be earned.

Respect. Has. To. Be. Earned.

Respect has to be earned every day, by every word, by every action.

It takes a lifetime of words and deeds to earn respect.

It takes only one careless word, one thoughtless action, to lose it.

You have to be worthy of respect. You have to live up to, or at least do your best to live up to, those high ideals -- the ones America supposedly embodies, that shining city on the hill, that exceptional nation we talk about, yes, that one. To earn respect you have to be fair. You have to have courage. You must embrace reason. You have to know when to hold the line and when to compromise. You have to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable. You have to keep your word. You have to give respect, true respect, to get it back.

There are no short cuts. None.

Now, any veteran worth the label should know that. If they don't, then likely they weren't much of a soldier to begin with and you can tell them I said so.

IF Kaepernick doesn't feel his country respects him enough for him to respect it in return, well, then you can't MAKE him respect it.

You can not make him respect it.

If you try to force a man to respect you, you'll only make him respect you less.

With threats, by violence, by shame, you can maybe compel Kaepernick to stand up and put his hand over his heart and force him to be quiet. You might.

But that's not respect.

It's only the illusion of respect.

You might force this man into the illusion of respect. You might. Would you be satisfied then? Would that make you happy? Would that make you respect your nation, the one which forced a man into the illusion of respect, a nation of little clockwork patriots all pretending satisfaction and respect? Is that what you want? If THAT's what matters to you, the illusion of respect, then you're not talking about freedom or liberty. You're not talking about the United States of America. Instead you're talking about every dictatorship from the Nazis to North Korea where people are lined up and MADE to salute with the muzzle of a gun pressed to the back of their necks.

That, that illusion of respect, is not why I wore a uniform.

That's not why I held up my right hand and swore the oath and put my life on the line for my country.

That, that illusion of respect, is not why I am a veteran.

Not so a man should be forced to show respect he doesn't feel.

That's called slavery and I have no respect for that at all.

If Americans want this man to respect America, then first they must respect him.

If America wants the world's respect, it must be worthy of respect.

America must be worthy of respect. Torture, rendition, indefinite detention, unarmed black men shot down in the street every day, poverty, inequality, voter suppression, racism, bigotry in every form, obstructionism, blind patriotism, NONE of those things are worthy of respect from anybody -- least of all an American.

But doesn't it also mean that if Kaepernick wants respect, he must give it first? Give it to America? Be worthy of respect himself? Stand up, shut up, and put his hand over his heart before Old Glory?

No. It doesn't.

Respect doesn't work that way.

Power flows from positive to negative. Electricity flows from greater potential to lesser.

The United States isn't a person, it's a vast construct, a framework of law and order and civilization designed to protect the weak from the ruthless and after more than two centuries of revision and refinement it exists to provide in equal measure for all of us the opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The United States is POWER.

All the power rests with America. Just as it does in the military chain of command. And like that chain of command, like the electrical circuit described above, respect must flow from greater to lesser FIRST before it can return.

To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT.

A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.

You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.

It's really just that simple.

[wustin]

He IS still black though, right? I assume he generally goes through life as a black man, interacting with a majority of folks who don't know he was raised by white people?

I'm not sure the logic of having to be disadvantaged to lobby on behalf of someone works. I think there are plenty of peoples in the US who lobby for their brethren overseas, for example.

People know he was raised by white folks, that's why some of my black friends on FB are shitting on him. He's free to do whatever he thinks is justice but there are number of black folks shitting on him because he didn't go through "that struggle" growing up. Credibility is important to some.

[heybrad]

I dunno - it's got us (and presumably many, many football fans) talking about it right?
Are we talking about inequality in the US or are we talking about him sitting during the national anthem. That's where I have no problem if he were to take the opportunity to continue to redirect the conversation.

[larrymcg421]

People know he was raised by white folks, that's why some of my black friends on FB are shitting on him. He's free to do whatever he thinks is justice but there are number of black folks shitting on him because he didn't go through "that struggle" growing up. Credibility is important to some.

What the fuck? Why does he have to go through that struggle to fight against an injustice? Wouldn't it make more sense to criticize him if he didn't give a shit about injustice because he's a millionaire and never had to grow up in that environment?

No one is required to face a specific injustice to have a problem with that injustice and fight against it.

[Atocep]

I dunno - it's got us (and presumably many, many football fans) talking about it right?

I think this vet nails it (spoiler tagged due to length):

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

I've been away from the internet all day.

I came home from a family picnic on the Blackwater River to find my inbox, as usual, overflowing like a ripe Port-O-Pottie.

One of the first messages I read was about 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, quoted above, who last Friday night at the beginning of a preseason game suddenly decided to become the most hated man in America du jour by deliberately not standing for the National Anthem.

Yes, that's right, a football player didn't stand for the National Anthem.

As you know, this means Kaepernick is scum, a horrible human being, a likely member of ISIS, a Muslim terrorist, a black thug, a communist, a socialist (and not the cool share your weed Bernie Sanders kind of socialist but the Red Brigade kind of Socialist who sleeps under a poster of Chairman Mao), a radical, a Black Panther, and he probably has Fidel Castro's phone number in his contact favorites.

Yeah. Okay.

I answered the message and went on to the next one.

The next message was about Kaepernick. As was the next one. And the next one. And...

They all begin pretty much the same way: Jim, AS A VETERAN, what do you think about this? Well?

Let me answer all the messages at once
__________

AS A VETERAN, what do I think about Colin Kaepernick's decision to sit during the National Anthem?

As a veteran?

Very well, as a veteran then, this is what I believe:

The very first thing I learned in the military is this: Respect is a two-way street. If you want respect, true respect, sincere respect, then you have to GIVE IT.

If you want respect, you have to do the things necessary to earn it each and every single day. There are no short cuts and no exceptions.

Respect cannot be compelled.

Respect cannot be bought.

Respect cannot be inherited.

Respect cannot be demanded at the muzzle of a gun or by beating it into somebody or by shaming them into it. Can not. You might get what you think is respect, but it's not. It's only the appearance of respect. It's fear, it's groveling, it's not respect. Far, far too many people both in and out of the military, people who should emphatically know better, do not understand this simple fact: there is an enormous difference between fear and respect.

Respect has to be earned.

Respect. Has. To. Be. Earned.

Respect has to be earned every day, by every word, by every action.

It takes a lifetime of words and deeds to earn respect.

It takes only one careless word, one thoughtless action, to lose it.

You have to be worthy of respect. You have to live up to, or at least do your best to live up to, those high ideals -- the ones America supposedly embodies, that shining city on the hill, that exceptional nation we talk about, yes, that one. To earn respect you have to be fair. You have to have courage. You must embrace reason. You have to know when to hold the line and when to compromise. You have to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable. You have to keep your word. You have to give respect, true respect, to get it back.

There are no short cuts. None.

Now, any veteran worth the label should know that. If they don't, then likely they weren't much of a soldier to begin with and you can tell them I said so.

IF Kaepernick doesn't feel his country respects him enough for him to respect it in return, well, then you can't MAKE him respect it.

You can not make him respect it.

If you try to force a man to respect you, you'll only make him respect you less.

With threats, by violence, by shame, you can maybe compel Kaepernick to stand up and put his hand over his heart and force him to be quiet. You might.

But that's not respect.

It's only the illusion of respect.

You might force this man into the illusion of respect. You might. Would you be satisfied then? Would that make you happy? Would that make you respect your nation, the one which forced a man into the illusion of respect, a nation of little clockwork patriots all pretending satisfaction and respect? Is that what you want? If THAT's what matters to you, the illusion of respect, then you're not talking about freedom or liberty. You're not talking about the United States of America. Instead you're talking about every dictatorship from the Nazis to North Korea where people are lined up and MADE to salute with the muzzle of a gun pressed to the back of their necks.

That, that illusion of respect, is not why I wore a uniform.

That's not why I held up my right hand and swore the oath and put my life on the line for my country.

That, that illusion of respect, is not why I am a veteran.

Not so a man should be forced to show respect he doesn't feel.

That's called slavery and I have no respect for that at all.

If Americans want this man to respect America, then first they must respect him.

If America wants the world's respect, it must be worthy of respect.

America must be worthy of respect. Torture, rendition, indefinite detention, unarmed black men shot down in the street every day, poverty, inequality, voter suppression, racism, bigotry in every form, obstructionism, blind patriotism, NONE of those things are worthy of respect from anybody -- least of all an American.

But doesn't it also mean that if Kaepernick wants respect, he must give it first? Give it to America? Be worthy of respect himself? Stand up, shut up, and put his hand over his heart before Old Glory?

No. It doesn't.

Respect doesn't work that way.

Power flows from positive to negative. Electricity flows from greater potential to lesser.

The United States isn't a person, it's a vast construct, a framework of law and order and civilization designed to protect the weak from the ruthless and after more than two centuries of revision and refinement it exists to provide in equal measure for all of us the opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The United States is POWER.

All the power rests with America. Just as it does in the military chain of command. And like that chain of command, like the electrical circuit described above, respect must flow from greater to lesser FIRST before it can return.

To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT.

A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.

You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.

It's really just that simple.


Almost all of the talk I've seen about the incident has been about Kaepernick himself and whether or not he should have done it. I've seen very little discussion about the issues that surround the reason he gave for sitting in the first place.

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like he chose to take the easy approach to this. It takes no time, effort, or money spent for him to sit during the national anthem. As I said above, he may be doing those things (I wouldn't know), but even if he is he would have made a much stronger statement by using his sitting during the national anthem to bring attention to the things he and others are doing to improve communities while challenging others to do the same.

What he did comes off as random, not entirely thought out, and selfish.

[ISiddiqui]

Are we talking about inequality in the US or are we talking about him sitting during the national anthem. That's where I have no problem if he were to take the opportunity to continue to redirect the conversation.

How can you separate one from the other? Or do you think that people aren't going "Why is he sitting during the national anthem"? I mean that's the question that was asked that resulted in him answering about black people being oppressed in the US.

And I think it's that exact response that have people all pissed off. Most of the stuff I see on Facebook and Twitter are mocking him for being oppressed while being a millionaire. Heck, we are talking about right here in this thread. On this page.

[cartman]

Sounds like the Chargers and Bosa finally have agreed on a deal.

[AENeuman]

I mean play this out on a smaller scale in a mental exercise.

Kid from the ghetto busts ass and does well. Chooses to remain living in the ghetto because it is home. Goes on a rant and protests because there is crime in his neighborhood and his house gets broken in
Stupid, right?
We'd all say, "Duh you live in the ghetto. Move!"




I mean play this out on a smaller scale in a mental exercise.

Kid from Queens busts ass and does well. Chooses to remain living in the America because it is home. Goes on a rant and protests because there is crime in his neighborhood and his country gets broken in
Stupid, right?
We'd all say, "Duh you live in America. Move!"

:D

[CU Tiger]

That's silly though. That's implying that one can't initiate change from within the system. That someone can't decry the system while wanting their home to be better. Why did Martin Luther King, Jr. continue to live in Atlanta while complaining about racism? Why do Catholics continue to stay in the Church while complaining about the Church's response to child abuse?

Dr. King, as far as I know, never denigrated America. He spoke out against her policies, and justly so, but he never opposed her very existence. To em when you refuse to acknowledge the National Anthem you are protesting the existence of the sovereignty of the country.

The Catholic argument is a bit of a non-sequitor. If anything it proves my point. They didn't denounce the entire Church they opposed the actions of some. Kap in contrast defied the respect of the entire country.

That's always the very worst argument in response to a protest. Just because someone doesn't like something going on in the country doesn't mean they don't want to be here. Maybe they want to make it better. Moving doesn't accomplish that.

No, I am not saying since he opposed fair treatment he should leave. I AM saying if he doesnt respect the country and thinks the country as a whole needs protesting he should find somewhere better.

In short I am saying he has a valid concern, but expressed it in the worst way possible and missed the point.

(Tieing it in to current events) it would be akin to Bosa tearing the shield off his jersey and specifically saying its because he opposes the treatment by the Chargers and wishes the Browns would have drafted him.

[jeff061]

I am significantly more annoyed at the attention Kaepernick is getting than what he actually did. He's just a fool with no concept of what he is protesting, how he should go about it or the difference between disrespecting your country(that's making you wildly successful) and striving to improve it.

I'm just going to dismiss him as the fool he is. Wish everyone would. Let him sit, mock him, move on.

That's always the very worst argument in response to a protest. Just because someone doesn't like something going on in the country doesn't mean they don't want to be here. Maybe they want to make it better. Moving doesn't accomplish that.


And yes, of course protesting doesn't mean you don't want to be here. However refusing to acknowledge your national anthem kind of does. Again, kid's a fool and doesn't have the mental capacity to understand this.

[ISiddiqui]

Dr. King, as far as I know, never denigrated America. He spoke out against her policies, and justly so, but he never opposed her very existence. To em when you refuse to acknowledge the National Anthem you are protesting the existence of the sovereignty of the country.

You are shifting goalposts a bit, aren't you? You said, "Thereby stating this country is inadequate to his standards. His financial means would allow him to, you know, move out of this country and find a better one if it is so bad."

Wasn't the country as it was inadequate to the standards of Dr. King?

To say that refusing the stand during the National Anthem is protesting the existence of the sovereignty of the country is quite a ridiculous statement as well. He's not standing because he feels the country oppresses black people and he doesn't particularly have pride in a flag that represents said country. How does that deny the existence of sovereignty of the country? It may instead do the opposite.

The Catholic argument is a bit of a non-sequitor. If anything it proves my point. They didn't denounce the entire Church they opposed the actions of some. Kap in contrast defied the respect of the entire country.

You have evidently not heard from lifelong Catholics who were going through the scandal when it started coming out.

I AM saying if he doesnt respect the country and thinks the country as a whole needs protesting he should find somewhere better.

Bullshit. The country has a whole DOES need protesting for its racist legacy and it's failure to adequately deal with said racist legacy. It's not "some of the country", it's the entire fucking edifice - it part of the bones and skin of the country and society we now live in. It permeates all of who were are and what we do.

[dawgfan]

Almost all of the talk I've seen about the incident has been about Kaepernick himself and whether or not he should have done it. I've seen very little discussion about the issues that surround the reason he gave for sitting in the first place.

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like he chose to take the easy approach to this. It takes no time, effort, or money spent for him to sit during the national anthem. As I said above, he may be doing those things (I wouldn't know), but even if he is he would have made a much stronger statement by using his sitting during the national anthem to bring attention to the things he and others are doing to improve communities while challenging others to do the same.

What he did comes off as random, not entirely thought out, and selfish.
If he doesn't follow-up by talking about what he's doing about this (beyond just this gesture which - by itself - is rather empty), then I agree. He's got an opportunity here. He has a lot of attention right now, and a chance to make this about something much bigger than just whether it's OK to opt out of standing for the anthem.

[molson]

If his heart is in the right place, than great. I think it's almost always more productive to be positive than hostile, no matter the issue, but he's a young guy, maybe this is part of his own evolution and he'll do good actual work when he's out of football. Sometimes that evolution can be bumpy depending on your experiences.

The timing of this is interesting though. I wonder if he knows he's going to be cut soon and wants to be able to spin this as the reason.

[Arles]

Kaepernick has every right to make the protest he did. As Molson said, if he truly believes in the cause - kudos to him for standing (or sitting in this case) for it.

People have every right to give Kaepernick a ton of crap for doing it. Protesting was never meant to be easy, but if it's a cause you are adamant about bringing attention to - then some criticism shouldn't be a big deal.

But, there are repercussions for your actions - any the 49ers may very well cut him (in some part) for making this protest. That's also their right. In the end, I haven't seen any "unfair" about this situation to this point. Kaep made a stance that he had the right to make- but it was widely criticized for both his reasoning and his motives.

[Chief Rum]

This reminds me of Jose Canseco. The message is fine. But not from this fucking turd.

[CU Tiger]

Bullshit. The country has a whole DOES need protesting for its racist legacy and it's failure to adequately deal with said racist legacy. It's not "some of the country", it's the entire fucking edifice - it part of the bones and skin of the country and society we now live in. It permeates all of who were are and what we do.


I was preparing to respond by line item until this final point. I realize that in reading it you and I will never agree. So I will respect your right to an opinion and maintain mine, unchanged.

FWIW I share a bit of similarity with Mr Kap.
I am a white male, biologically parented by 2 white parents. I was abandoned as an infant and raised in a series of foster homes. The folks I call Mom and Dad whom I spent the majority of my childhood with are both black. (They will actively protest the calling of them African Americans, their choice so I honor that and refer to them as they prefer)

I am not sure what that means about my validity to speak on the subject, just thought it was an interesting correlation.

[ISiddiqui]

This, interestingly, is something I believe may be relevant (though it applies to baseball, not football):

Jackie Robinson: “I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag” – HardballTalk (http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/08/29/jackie-robinson-i-cannot-stand-and-sing-the-anthem-i-cannot-salute-the-flag/)

As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made.

Those words were by Jackie Robinson, and yes, 1972 or 1947 were different than 2016. And Robinson didn't refuse to stand during the national anthem, only wish he did. But its worth thinking about, considering what we know of Jackie Robinson, if even for a little bit.

[stevew]

Isn't the third verse of the national anthem about shooting runaway slaves that attempt to escape to British garrisons during the 1812 war?

[Arles]

But wouldn't you say 2016 is a much different landscape on race than 1947 or even 1972? If I ran the electricians union in 2016, I could say "Hey, you know back in 1947, electricians routinely died in Pennsylvania coal mines - so we need much better benefits now!". But, that would be a little disingenuous given the current environment for electricians in 2016.

I think we do need to look at some race issues (esp in regards to the police in lower income areas), but it's not 1970s Mississippi out there today. The fact that Jackie Robinson wanted to not stand for the anthem in 1947 or 1972 has no bearing on how the treatment of athletes of color today. It's apples and oranges.

[MrBug708]

I'm pretty sure when Colin Kaepernick is out of football, no one will care if he stands or sits during the anthem. All I know about Jackie is he'd rather quit baseball than play for the Giants and that is good enough for me

[molson]

I took that part of the Robinson comments, in context, as expressing what he was feeling was he was invited into white baseball. He didn't have an innocent naive excitement just to be there, there was a real internal conflict - he was now a part of this exclusionary league and he had to play along with all of the customs in those leagues. Which had to be incredibly surreal. I think we all know what the reaction would have been if he refused to stand for the anthems and was outspoken about that when he played, but I wonder how that would have impacted further progress in societal attitudes. He might have done more good the way he did it - but he must have been very conflicted about that as well.

As far as I know, Jackie Robinson, Bill Russell, Jim Brown, and Muhammad Ali all stood for the anthem. I'm sure they, and many others, had complicated relationships with the concept of America and their role in it, but they all furthered what they believed in in varying other ways - from refusing to fight and kill for the U.S.A, by leading by example and having success, by being outspoken on social issues, etc. All of which feels more substantive than what's really the equivalent of spitting on a national monument or refusing to shake someone's hand. (Edit: but I'd also bet that all of those guys did shit in their younger days that was both more hostile and less productive that Kaepernick's deal - everything is under a microscope now).

I guess the closest famous equivalent in sports is the Olympics Black Power protest. Maybe I completely misread their intent, I'm not really the audience, but I always found that gesture very powerful because they didn't turn their back on the anthem, they didn't sit down, they stood up in such a manner as to stay, "we're here too and don't you fucking forget it." That to me is very American. And it was even fairly positive, in the sense of expressing concern and awareness about black poverty, expressing black pride, as opposed to just generically insulting a broad idea or broad group, which is really just a message of hate. Of course I have the advantage of not being alive when it happened and not having to process it as an already-established adult with feelings and biases, etc.

Edit: When you have Richard Sherman, who had to deal with the whole thing where he was widely called a "thug" for non-criminal behavior, saying that Kaepernick chose the wrong forum, then I think he probably chose the wrong forum. Doesn't make him a terrible person, unless this is all calculated to try to keep himself on the team longer, or to create a spin/excuse for his release.

[stevew]

Trevor Siemian, a former seventh-round pick, will start at quarterback for the defending Super Bowl champions when the season opens.


Probably an upgrade over 2015 peyton though.

[Galaril]

Probably an upgrade over 2015 peyton though.

Yup. The bigger issue looks like our O-line is worse than last year and being able to generate a run first ground game will be very difficult. I am starting to think 6-10 is more likely than 10-6:-(

[TroyF]

Kaepernick has every right to make the protest he did. As Molson said, if he truly believes in the cause - kudos to him for standing (or sitting in this case) for it.

People have every right to give Kaepernick a ton of crap for doing it. Protesting was never meant to be easy, but if it's a cause you are adamant about bringing attention to - then some criticism shouldn't be a big deal.

But, there are repercussions for your actions - any the 49ers may very well cut him (in some part) for making this protest. That's also their right. In the end, I haven't seen any "unfair" about this situation to this point. Kaep made a stance that he had the right to make- but it was widely criticized for both his reasoning and his motives.

Pretty much my stance. Kaep can think what he wants. I can think he's badly misinformed. As the veteran above said, I'm not going to MAKE him give the flag respect. He isn't going to MAKE me respect his stance.

I remember going through this with Chris Jackson many moons ago. Now Abdul-Rauf. His not standing for the anthem pretty much ended his career in Denver. Looking back on it 20+ years later, I don't think it has helped or hurt America in any way. I'm pretty sure if I live to 65-70, I'll look back at this the same way.

[TroyF]

Yup. The bigger issue looks like our O-line is worse than last year and being able to generate a run first ground game will be very difficult. I am starting to think 6-10 is more likely than 10-6:-(


It's frightening. I hope Lynch is the answer at QB long term, but we really butchered this offseason with the QB position. I still have no idea why we though Sanchez was the right veteran to bring in. I will never, ever understand it. I predicted he would get cut the first weekend after the trade and was widely laughed at in my circle of friends. (which is not uncommon) This time I get to laugh back.

The problem is what is going to happen this year. The defense is going to be uber strong again, but we are not getting out of all those close games with wins. It simply isn't happening again. We needed a better offense and unless Trevor is better than I think he is, we won't be.

We'll find out in a couple of weeks how good this team will be. We know Carolina is coming in for blood.

[ISiddiqui]

But wouldn't you say 2016 is a much different landscape on race than 1947 or even 1972? If I ran the electricians union in 2016, I could say "Hey, you know back in 1947, electricians routinely died in Pennsylvania coal mines - so we need much better benefits now!". But, that would be a little disingenuous given the current environment for electricians in 2016.

I think we do need to look at some race issues (esp in regards to the police in lower income areas), but it's not 1970s Mississippi out there today. The fact that Jackie Robinson wanted to not stand for the anthem in 1947 or 1972 has no bearing on how the treatment of athletes of color today. It's apples and oranges.

But that's somewhat the entire issue right here. The notion that it isn't 1972 Mississippi seemingly meaning that racism doesn't exist anymore. I'm sure people in 1972 thought WTF are these black people so angry at, they got Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act passed and forced bussing. What is wrong with those coddled people?

People like Kaepernick or other athletes that affirm Black Lives Matter are saying hey racism still exists, things are still fucked up, and I don't feel like I should feel pride in a society that still allows these things to happen. And not only is there nothing wrong with that, but he has quite a valid point in saying so.

[ISiddiqui]

I guess the closest famous equivalent in sports is the Olympics Black Power protest. Maybe I completely misread their intent, I'm not really the audience, but I always found that gesture very powerful because they didn't turn their back on the anthem, they didn't sit down, they stood up in such a manner as to stay, "we're here too and don't you fucking forget it." That to me is very American. And it was even fairly positive, in the sense of expressing concern and awareness about black poverty, expressing black pride, as opposed to just generically insulting a broad idea or broad group, which is really just a message of hate. Of course I have the advantage of not being alive when it happened and not having to process it as an already-established adult with feelings and biases, etc.

Remember those Black Power athletes were completely raked over the coals for that protest. They were seen to be disrespecting the country by making a political statement during the anthem (which still would be considered disrespectful by some folks - I don't know if Kaep did that he would have been spared the controversy). They both got death threats for doing so as well.

[Galaril]

It's frightening. I hope Lynch is the answer at QB long term, but we really butchered this offseason with the QB position. I still have no idea why we though Sanchez was the right veteran to bring in. I will never, ever understand it. I predicted he would get cut the first weekend after the trade and was widely laughed at in my circle of friends. (which is not uncommon) This time I get to laugh back.

The problem is what is going to happen this year. The defense is going to be uber strong again, but we are not getting out of all those close games with wins. It simply isn't happening again. We needed a better offense and unless Trevor is better than I think he is, we won't be.

We'll find out in a couple of weeks how good this team will be. We know Carolina is coming in for blood.

Yes these team is starting t reminds of the year we had Tebow and went on th crazy winning streak with that great defense abovee average line with good kicking and running. Well this time we may have a worse QB situation with Tebow since we t least had the good line weaker division and a decent backup QB in Orton. Yes that is how bad it is in Denver this preseason I just typed Orton =equaled decent backup.:banghead:

[bhlloy]

Doesn't make him a terrible person, unless this is all calculated to try to keep himself on the team longer, or to create a spin/excuse for his release.

Maybe I'm a terrible cynical person, but I can't help but think there's absolutely some truth there. He was about to lose a QB job to Blaine Gabbert, get himself cut and probably never be a starter in the NFL again.

I mean I could be way off base here, but if you had told me to name an NFL player who would come out and be an activist for this movement, he'd have probably been pretty near the bottom. I don't hate him for the message, and if it's coming from the heart more power him for taking the stand, but yeah. I'm very skeptical of this one.

[TroyF]

Maybe I'm a terrible cynical person, but I can't help but think there's absolutely some truth there. He was about to lose a QB job to Blaine Gabbert, get himself cut and probably never be a starter in the NFL again.

I mean I could be way off base here, but if you had told me to name an NFL player who would come out and be an activist for this movement, he'd have probably been pretty near the bottom. I don't hate him for the message, and if it's coming from the heart more power him for taking the stand, but yeah. I'm very skeptical of this one.


I dunno. From what Ive read about him before, he's always seemed to me like the type of guy who would want to help change society.

If that was his goal, I think he will fail. First, he has not really generated a ton of support for this, even by the people he is doing it for. Second, as all of us know, if an NFL team thinks you can help them win. . . You pretty much have to be filmed and convicted of eating babies at a satanic ritual to not get signed. Beat the hell out of your girlfriend? That is horrible, can you rush the passer?

Kaep would have to do a lot of convincing to make me think an NFL team chose not to sign him because of this.

[Dutch]

I dunno. From what Ive read about him before, he's always seemed to me like the type of guy who would want to help change society.

If that was his goal, I think he will fail. First, he has not really generated a ton of support for this, even by the people he is doing it for. Second, as all of us know, if an NFL team thinks you can help them win. . . You pretty much have to be filmed and convicted of eating babies at a satanic ritual to not get signed. Beat the hell out of your girlfriend? That is horrible, can you rush the passer?

Kaep would have to do a lot of convincing to make me think an NFL team chose not to sign him because of this.

He did say he would stand for the anthem once everything is fixed.

[Ryche]

Yes these team is starting t reminds of the year we had Tebow and went on th crazy winning streak with that great defense abovee average line with good kicking and running. Well this time we may have a worse QB situation with Tebow since we t least had the good line weaker division and a decent backup QB in Orton. Yes that is how bad it is in Denver this preseason I just typed Orton =equaled decent backup.:banghead:

I honestly don't think this Broncos team is any worse than last year's. Not that I'm expecting another Super Bowl appearance, they greatly overachieved by winning a lot of close games. That probably evens out this year and brings them back to the 8-10 win range. But the offensive line is not worse, they were probably bottom 5 already last season. And Siemian has looked pretty good this offseason, far better than Tebow ever did.

Things could blow up badly but I just don't see that happening with how good the defense is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Remember those Black Power athletes were completely raked over the coals for that protest.

As they should have been.

[molson]

Remember those Black Power athletes were completely raked over the coals for that protest. They were seen to be disrespecting the country by making a political statement during the anthem (which still would be considered disrespectful by some folks - I don't know if Kaep did that he would have been spared the controversy). They both got death threats for doing so as well.

Hell, in that era, Hank Aaron got death threats for having the gall to hit too many home runs. So ya, the black power thing was incredibly provocative.

[Arles]

But that's somewhat the entire issue right here. The notion that it isn't 1972 Mississippi seemingly meaning that racism doesn't exist anymore. I'm sure people in 1972 thought WTF are these black people so angry at, they got Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act passed and forced bussing. What is wrong with those coddled people?
Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean that tactics from when the situation was awful are still warranted here. I just completely reject the notion that today's America can even be loosely compared to the 1940s or even 1970s when it comes to race. We have a black president, we have black CEOs of fortune 500 companies, black athletes are more coddled than 99% of white people and there are checks and balances throughout education and the workplace to ensure African Americans aren't getting the shaft. Now, on the issue of police treatment (esp in poorer areas), I do think there is some room for improvement. But, comparing today to 1972 on race issues is a little ridiculous.

People like Kaepernick or other athletes that affirm Black Lives Matter are saying hey racism still exists, things are still fucked up, and I don't feel like I should feel pride in a society that still allows these things to happen. And not only is there nothing wrong with that, but he has quite a valid point in saying so.
That's their right, but are you saying people can't criticize their method of protest? I think it's extremely fair to say that sitting down for the national anthem is insulting to many Americans and not nearly as effective as other methods of protest aimed at targeting this issue. I'm trying to figure out what your issue is with how people have handled the Kaepernick situation. Most people aren't saying that he doesn't have the right to protest in the manner he did. Instead, it's simply that his method was clumsy and motives seem questionable given his status on the team.

[molson]

I mentioned Jim Brown earlier, who really was one of the more antagonizing black athletes in his day when it came to being outspoken on social issues in a very chaotic time, even he disagreed with the method Kaepernick used (though he supported his right to do it and to express what he was feeling in that way). Because he considers himself an American, who pays his taxes like everyone else, who has always wanted more rights for himself and members of his race in the existing country. When you instead just broadly attack the entire concept of America, you're shitting on a much broader target, including Veterans, prior civil rights leaders, people who have fought for other progress in the U.S., the whole thing.

[ISiddiqui]

Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean that tactics from when the situation was awful are still warranted here. I just completely reject the notion that today's America can even be loosely compared to the 1940s or even 1970s when it comes to race. We have a black president, we have black CEOs of fortune 500 companies, black athletes are more coddled than 99% of white people and there are checks and balances throughout education and the workplace to ensure African Americans aren't getting the shaft. Now, on the issue of police treatment (esp in poorer areas), I do think there is some room for improvement. But, comparing today to 1972 on race issues is a little ridiculous.

So... aside from police treatment, racism is dead? Things are better, but when the War on Drugs and mass incarceration seems to be focused on the black community (whites and blacks do the same amount of drugs, but blacks are overwhelmingly the ones jailed for it). When said actions lead to incredibly powerful books like Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow". When police departments show incredibly levels of racism (look at the Justice Department probes into the PDs at Ferguson, Mo. and Baltimore, Md.). The country still has a major, major problem with racism.

FWIW, there only 5 black CEOs on the Fortune 500. Yeah, that's better than before, but that's still kind of pitiful. There are laws that are in place to prevent workplace discrimination, but it still happens quite a bit (the various studies of call backs when sending the same resume with 'black' names vs. 'white' names, etc.). We have a black President, but people still believe him to be a Muslim, from Kenya, etc.

We may be better on race than in 1972, but it isn't nearly as much as people may think. And I think that a lot of it still hasn't gotten better and needs to be called out.

That's their right, but are you saying people can't criticize their method of protest? I think it's extremely fair to say that sitting down for the national anthem is insulting to many Americans and not nearly as effective as other methods of protest aimed at targeting this issue. I'm trying to figure out what your issue is with how people have handled the Kaepernick situation. Most people aren't saying that he doesn't have the right to protest in the manner he did. Instead, it's simply that his method was clumsy and motives seem questionable given his status on the team.

Why is it clumsy? What's a better form of protest? Are we or are we not discussing the status of African-Americans in the country today? Would we have been doing so if Kaep was marching in a Black Lives Matter parade?

People can criticize the method of protest. I can also say they are wrong (morally, not legally) for doing so. Or are you saying that folks can't criticize people who are against the method of protest?

[Arles]

Why is it clumsy?
Because there's a lot of collateral damage with it. If I don't like the hiring practice for a certain retailer, putting out an ad or protest against all retailers seems a little clumsy and unfair to those who aren't acting that way. I think the way Lebron handled the Eric Garner case, Wade/Lebron/Melo brought notice to BLM or even Rose with the "I can't breathe" T-Shirt were all very poignant ways to bring attention to the issue. Sitting down for the national anthem is disrespectful to millions of Americans (including black americans).

What's a better form of protest?
I went through 3 above. If Kaepernick had worn a Black Lives Matter headband or even had a BLM T-Shirt after the game in a press conference - I think both would have garnered just as much attention without the disrespecting America collateral damage.
Are we or are we not discussing the status of African-Americans in the country today? Would we have been doing so if Kaep was marching in a Black Lives Matter parade?
We've talked/responded to numerous more effective methods by athletes. I just think this was lazy and clumsy.

People can criticize the method of protest. I can also say they are wrong (morally, not legally) for doing so. Or are you saying that folks can't criticize people who are against the method of protest?
No, I just didn't understand your point. Now I do. I think it's a little silly to say that Kaepernick has the right to protest in a clumsy way, but that's it is unfair for anyone to criticism his method. But, we can agree to disagree I guess.

[ISiddiqui]

I went through 3 above. If Kaepernick had worn a Black Lives Matter headband or even had a BLM T-Shirt after the game in a press conference - I think both would have garnered just as much attention without the disrespecting America collateral damage.

How much real conversation happened after the LeBron/Wade/Melo/Rose comments? Not much. If Kaepernick work a BLM shirt in the press conference it would have been the same. A story for a day, some Facebook memes talking about it. Then over.

There were a lot of people who thought the 200m runners in the 1968 Olympics were disrespecting America at time. There were a lot of people who thought Muhammed Ali's outspoken anti-Vietnam statements (due to American racism) were disrespecting America. We don't necessarily think they still are (well, Jon might).

I don't think claiming that America is a racist country is disrespecting the country. It's calling it to be better. Be worthy of people standing up to honor the flag. Respect is earned, not given - I've heard that a time or two. I think the country is be called on the carpet to earn that respect.

I think it's a little silly to say that Kaepernick has the right to protest in a clumsy way, but that's it is unfair for anyone to criticism his method.

I'm not saying it's 'unfair' - just that its dumb, IMO.

[molson]

I read a lot more about police tactics, training, racial issues, ect., after the actual controversial events than I ever did after any of the protests. After the protests it seems there's more talk about the protests than any issues. Maybe in 2016 with all the media sources and ability to express ourselves to a wider audience, traditional protests aren't as important. Maybe it's better to actually do good work in the community to promote change, or to at least financially support those various watchdog, community groups, state legislators who are in the position to actually change laws, etc.

[Arles]

Stop it, Molson. It's more effective to drop a deuce on the American Flag at the 50-yardline before a game. THAT gets people to talk about this issue and that's what matters. Support change in the community? Actually state the message of change you want to the press? YAWN!

[JPhillips]

I read a lot more about police tactics, training, racial issues, ect., after the actual controversial events than I ever did after any of the protests. After the protests it seems there's more talk about the protests than any issues. Maybe in 2016 with all the media sources and ability to express ourselves to a wider audience, traditional protests aren't as important. Maybe it's better to actually do good work in the community to promote change, or to at least financially support those various watchdog, community groups, state legislators who are in the position to actually change laws, etc.

The older I get the more I think change takes both the radicals and the quiet workmen types. I think the combination of outrage/visibility with slow and steady work gets further than either would alone.

[ISiddiqui]

I read a lot more about police tactics, training, racial issues, ect., after the actual controversial events than I ever did after any of the protests. After the protests it seems there's more talk about the protests than any issues. Maybe in 2016 with all the media sources and ability to express ourselves to a wider audience, traditional protests aren't as important. Maybe it's better to actually do good work in the community to promote change, or to at least financially support those various watchdog, community groups, state legislators who are in the position to actually change laws, etc.

The controversial events only recently started getting airtime themselves after protests had been going on for previous incidents. I distinctly remember no coverage in the media following what was going on in Baltimore until there was loud protest and, yes, riots (then the media paid attention - violence sells, I guess). And then after all that, the Justice Dept recently found out what a racial & sexist cesspool that police department was.

After all, I don't think that police officers started to abuse their power only in the last 3 years. A movement built up to focus on these policies and they have become loud and active. So the media realizes, hey, this may actually be newsworthy and covers it.

[molson]

The older I get the more I think change takes both the radicals and the quiet workmen types. I think the combination of outrage/visibility with slow and steady work gets further than either would alone.

Ya, maybe some forms of protest inspire others who are in better position to effectuate real change. But I still think positive protests - even if they're really provocative and aggressive, are more productive to that end than blanket-hate protests.

[ISiddiqui]

The older I get the more I think change takes both the radicals and the quiet workmen types. I think the combination of outrage/visibility with slow and steady work gets further than either would alone.

Yep... it's the Martin Luther King and Lyndon B. Johnson yin/yang. King couldn't get Civil and Voting Rights passed without Johnson's political work in Washington and Johnson couldn't get the same passed without King's outrage and visibility on the streets.

[JPhillips]

Ya, maybe some forms of protest inspire others who are in better position to effectuate real change. But I still think positive protests - even if they're really provocative and aggressive, are more productive to that end than blanket-hate protests.

I think there are times when the "moderate" demand looks more palatable only when compared to the radical demand. If I demand 10X and someone else demands X, that looks more reasonable in comparison, but X presented by itself may have been rejected.

[Logan]

Twitter says that Teddy Bridgewater just went down on a non-contact play, and the Vikings called off practice from there.

[mckerney]

Fuck

[TCY Junkie]

I had no clue the sf qb was black..... saw Harrison made a comment and then apologize. If it's true than don't fucking apologize. Pussies.

[Ryche]

Twitter says that Teddy Bridgewater just went down on a non-contact play, and the Vikings called off practice from there.

I think the Vikings season just effectively ended, sounds bad. Brought in an ambulance so it's probably not just a simple ACL. :( :banghead:

[Thomkal]

Teddy Bridgewater suffers apparent injury at practice - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000692565/article/teddy-bridgewater-suffers-apparent-injury-at-practice)

[Thomkal]

Donald Trump has weighed in on Kap, glad to know he's on top of this:

Donald Trump on Kaepernick: Find another country - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000692256/article/donald-trump-on-kaepernick-find-another-country)

[Chief Rum]

I think we're talking less about Kaep's message and more about Kaep. So essentially what good does he do, if as a flawed messenger, he becomes the target instead of his message?

[JPhillips]

I had no clue the sf qb was black..... saw Harrison made a comment and then apologize. If it's true than don't fucking apologize. Pussies.

What does this mean?

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, I looked it up. Apparently Rodney Harrison said Kaepernick isn't even black, so doesn't know what real black people go through. Though Harrison later said he didn't know he was mixed?!

[RedKingGold]

Teddy Bridgewater suffers apparent injury at practice - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000692565/article/teddy-bridgewater-suffers-apparent-injury-at-practice)

That really sucks. The reports on-site make the injury sound horrific. I'm not a Vikings fan, but I really liked Bridgewater and thought he had a really nice future in the league.

[JPhillips]

Oh, I looked it up. Apparently Rodney Harrison said Kaepernick isn't even black, so doesn't know what real black people go through. Though Harrison later said he didn't know he was mixed?!

I know that part, but that doesn't explain the don't apologize bit.

And who is a pussy, Kaep, Harrison, us?

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, I think he was saying that Harrison shouldn't have apologized if he believed it to be true.

[QuikSand]

Kaep to Vikes. Do this.

[cartman]

Vikings to run the single wing with Peterson this year?

[bhlloy]

Tebow picked a bad day to commit to baseball

[digamma]

Kaep to Vikes. Do this.

Sorry, signed Favre.

[Atocep]

Tebow picked a bad day to commit to baseball

Does anyone else find it odd that Tebow would rather be out of football for 3 years and try to make as a baseball player at 29 rather than try a position other than QB?

[thesloppy]

Where could the Vikings possibly find somebody else who can throw for 14 TDs, 10 INTs and 3000 yards a year?!?

Seriously though, sucks for Teddy and Vikes fans.

[CU Tiger]

I mentioned Jim Brown earlier, who really was one of the more antagonizing black athletes in his day when it came to being outspoken on social issues in a very chaotic time, even he disagreed with the method Kaepernick used (though he supported his right to do it and to express what he was feeling in that way). Because he considers himself an American, who pays his taxes like everyone else, who has always wanted more rights for himself and members of his race in the existing country. When you instead just broadly attack the entire concept of America, you're shitting on a much broader target, including Veterans, prior civil rights leaders, people who have fought for other progress in the U.S., the whole thing.

Thanks for making the point I was trying to make in multiple posts much better than I was able to state it.

[EagleFan]

Does anyone else find it odd that Tebow would rather be out of football for 3 years and try to make as a baseball player at 29 rather than try a position other than QB?

That's because he has always been all about himself and not the team.

[Dutch]

Does anyone else find it odd that Tebow would rather be out of football for 3 years and try to make as a baseball player at 29 rather than try a position other than QB?

I really can't see a position he would be successful at other than QB...but at 29....baseball is a better option.

[Dutch]

Oh, I looked it up. Apparently Rodney Harrison said Kaepernick isn't even black, so doesn't know what real black people go through. Though Harrison later said he didn't know he was mixed?!

And Harrison's black and confused. Imagine the dilemma running through racist beat cops minds. "You mean there are more black people than just black people?" #mindblown

[MikeVic]

Does anyone else find it odd that Tebow would rather be out of football for 3 years and try to make as a baseball player at 29 rather than try a position other than QB?

Yes, I am so sick of this Tebow crap. Who cares about his baseball career. Will he really spend time in the minors to improve?

[miked]

I don't get it. Apparently an old rich white billionaire can go on for months about how shitty our country is (mostly blaming non-white people) and everyone seems to be as happy as apple pie. Meanwhile, a millionaire athlete sits for one national anthem and he should leave the country if he doesn't like it?

[Dutch]

I don't get it. Apparently an old rich white billionaire can go on for months about how shitty our country is (mostly blaming non-white people) and everyone seems to be as happy as apple pie. Meanwhile, a millionaire athlete sits for one national anthem and he should leave the country if he doesn't like it?

Ahahahaha, love this girl.

https://www.facebook.com/TomiLahren/videos/1063123907114129/

[cartman]

Oof. Bridgewater suffered a dislocated knee and complete tear of his ACL. That's gonna be a tough one to come back from.

[Dutch]

Oof. Bridgewater suffered a dislocated knee and complete tear of his ACL. That's gonna be a tough one to come back from.

Marvels of medical science. He's still young. hopefully he can do it.

[miami_fan]

I think we're talking less about Kaep's message and more about Kaep. So essentially what good does he do, if as a flawed messenger, he becomes the target instead of his message?

We have been waiting for the perfect messenger to talk about race and racism for a while now. I guess we will have to struggle with the flawed ones until perfection arrives.

[stevew]

Marvels of medical science. He's still young. hopefully he can do it.

yeah, but dislocated knee and ACL tear is some totally career altering shawn livingston type shit.

[RainMaker]

Just have to hope there is no nerve damage. I think that's what did Lattimer in.

So this was all non-contact? How does that even happen? Cleat caught in the turf or something? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dislocating their knee in a non-contact situation. In basketball it's usually after a high jump and awkward fall but the reports seem to say he was just dropping back to pass.

[JAG]

yeah, but dislocated knee and ACL tear is some totally career altering shawn livingston type shit.

David J. Chao, MD
‏@ProFootballDoc David J. Chao, MD Retweeted Adam Schefter
Key is what other ligaments, cartilage or if patella tendon involved. Great news that nerve/artery ok.

[Dutch]

Just have to hope there is no nerve damage. I think that's what did Lattimer in.

So this was all non-contact? How does that even happen? Cleat caught in the turf or something? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dislocating their knee in a non-contact situation. In basketball it's usually after a high jump and awkward fall but the reports seem to say he was just dropping back to pass.

My first thought was Wendell Davis. Bears WR who had a horrific injury on the Vets artificial turf. He returned to football a year later but never actually played again.

[Butter]

Just have to hope there is no nerve damage. I think that's what did Lattimer in.

So this was all non-contact? How does that even happen? Cleat caught in the turf or something? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dislocating their knee in a non-contact situation. In basketball it's usually after a high jump and awkward fall but the reports seem to say he was just dropping back to pass.

My wife did it once as a teen-ager by running while playing basketball. Took a wrong step, dislocated her knee and tore the ligament. Still hurts her often today.

[RainMaker]

My first thought was Wendell Davis. Bears WR who had a horrific injury on the Vets artificial turf. He returned to football a year later but never actually played again.

Yup, Wendell did it on both knees. Patellar tendon in both. That is supposed to be insanely painful.

[Abe Sargent]

Dante Fowler Jr is another if I remember correctly

[Abe Sargent]

Dola, and wasn;t Robert Edwards something similar to this as well?

[CrescentMoonie]

I don't get it. Apparently an old rich white billionaire can go on for months about how shitty our country is (mostly blaming non-white people) and everyone seems to be as happy as apple pie. Meanwhile, a millionaire athlete sits for one national anthem and he should leave the country if he doesn't like it?

What world is that happening in? He's constantly mocked, he's polling at dangerously low numbers, and every week seems to bring a few more things that chip away at his already tiny support. Kaep is getting similar treatment.

[JPhillips]

Teddy could barely move prior to the injury, so he shouldn't have to worry about loss of speed and agility. As long as he can plant and throw he should be able to come back.

[Butter]

The Bengals cut Brandon Tate. I want to give Alex Erickson a hug.

[Ryche]

Teddy could barely move prior to the injury, so he shouldn't have to worry about loss of speed and agility. As long as he can plant and throw he should be able to come back.

What? Teddy Bridgewater jukes defenders and rushes for 22 yards - NFL Videos (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000691568/Teddy-Bridgewater-jukes-defenders-and-rushes-for-22-yards)

[BYU 14]

What world is that happening in? He's constantly mocked, he's polling at dangerously low numbers, and every week seems to bring a few more things that chip away at his already tiny support. Kaep is getting similar treatment.

Ah, Trump has a bit more support than Kap has received, to put it mildly. Though I also agree, not everyone is happy as pie with him.

[jbergey22]

Oof. Bridgewater suffered a dislocated knee and complete tear of his ACL. That's gonna be a tough one to come back from.

On his plant leg as well. Almost sounds as if the Vikings are covering up for a lineman that accidentally landed wrong or something towards his plant leg. I cant figure out how you could completely tear and dislocate your knee on a non contact injury. I know strange things can happen but a professional athlete with great coordination and powerful legs just ruining a knee on his own in a light practice seems odd.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ah, Trump has a bit more support than Kap has received, to put it mildly.

That's because Trump has a lot more legitimate beefs than Kaep's illegitimately whiny ass.

[bhlloy]

On his plant leg as well. Almost sounds as if the Vikings are covering up for a lineman that accidentally landed wrong or something towards his plant leg. I cant figure out how you could completely tear and dislocate your knee on a non contact injury. I know strange things can happen but a professional athlete with great coordination and powerful legs just ruining a knee on his own in a light practice seems odd.

Pretty sure there were reporters there who saw it happen. They got ushered out of practice afterwards but surely there's no massive conspiracy here.

[Dutch]

Chargers to Greet Colin Kaepernick with a 'Salute to the Military' on Thursday Night - Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2016/08/31/chargers-plan-to-greet-colin-kaepernick-with-a-salute-to-the-military-on-thursday-night/)

Breibart explains why Kaep really screwed the pooch on this one.

[Butter]

Breibart explains

I'm out.