NFL 2016 Head Coaching and Offseason Stuff

[Abe Sargent]

The jobs are a -opening!

[Zinto]

Hopefully the Lions move on from Caldwell. Unfortunately, they will probably promote a GM from within and keep him around in typical Lions fashion.

[BillJasper]

Browns starting over again. Fire both Farmer (GM) and Pettine (NC).

[stevew]

Somehow Jeff Fisher will get yet another chance with the Rams.

[Atocep]

Somehow Jeff Fisher will get yet another chance with the Rams.

He'll get that elusive 7th winning season eventually.

[Abe Sargent]

I'd cut bait on Fisher too.

[BillJasper]

Somehow Jeff Fisher will get yet another chance with the Rams.

Most overrated coach in the game.

[Abe Sargent]

Most overrated coach in the game.

Kind of a meangingless statement without any qualifiers. Coaching right now? Most overrated to make it to the Super Bowl? Ever?

[Jon]

Jim Tomsula "relieved of duties" by the 49ers.

They should be cleaning house, but probably won't since Jed and Baalke are BFFs.

[BillJasper]

Jim Tomsula "relieved of duties" by the 49ers.

They should be cleaning house, but probably won't since Jed and Baalke are BFFs.

That's a shitty thing to do. Tomsula stepped up when the 48ers fucked up.

[corbes]

A common thread in the Eagles' reported interests (Staley, Pederson, Payton, Harbaugh) seems to be a prior involvement with the team during Lurie's tenure as owner.

[General Mike]

A common thread in the Eagles' reported interests (Staley, Pederson, Payton, Harbaugh) seems to be a prior involvement with the team during Lurie's tenure as owner.

Maybe he can bring back Rich Kotite. :D

[EagleFan]

Maybe he can bring back Rich Kotite. :D

:mad:

But he was before lurie.

[MrBug708]

The last UCLA HC wasnt so bad for the Eagles :)

[Barkeep49]

A common thread in the Eagles' reported interests (Staley, Pederson, Payton, Harbaugh) seems to be a prior involvement with the team during Lurie's tenure as owner.
Which kind of makes sense in terms of wanting some franchise stability. Know what you're getting after all.

Unlike Chip Kelly reaching out to the 49'ers and the 49'ers considering him. They should have never run Harbaugh out but how could they possibly think things would end better with Kelly? Sean Payton, now there's a good option for them. He's proven that he can work with a GM.

[General Mike]

:mad:

But he was before lurie.

Lurie bought the team during Kotite's last year. At least that's what it said on wikipedia.

[albionmoonlight]

Payton meeting with Saints brass today to discuss his future. If he wants to stay, I think that the Saints have the sense to say a prayer of thanks and keep him.

If he wants to leave, then there really isn't much the team can do about it. I don't see keeping him in his contract out of spite while he waits it out.

I don't know if the story has made the national media, but Tom Benson put the Saints into a trust for his granddaughter, Rita. Rita apparently is a spoiled rich brat (go figure) who can't work with anyone and who hates Payton and who Payton hates.

Benson has subsequently decided to take the team out of the trust and leave it to his new wife when he passes. She seems cool, but there's also allegations that she is isolating him and manipulating him and that she's forced him to give her the team. Mo' money, mo' problems, I guess.

Rita and her folks are arguing that Benson cannot take the team out of the trust because he set it up as an irrevocable trust for tax reasons.

The upshot is that there is now an unsettled post-Benson ownership situation that is playing out in Louisiana and Texas probate courts. Which means that, in addition to being a small market with no real history of winning, an aging QB, and cap troubles, the Saints's job (if it comes open) also comes with unsettled ownership.

If the Saints lose Payton, they are not going to be the top destination for any of the hot coaches on the market. I really hope that they do not lose Payton.

[Kodos]

Interesting stuff. From what you've said, I would imagine Payton will be heading for greener pastures.

[Thomkal]

Mike McCoy keeps his job somehow in San Diego.

[PackerFanatic]

Tom Coughlin out in NY. Being deemed a resignation.

[Thomkal]

Tom Coughlin out in NY. Being deemed a resignation.

(Sorry Lathum)

[Logan]

I have no idea why they would keep Reese as GM.

[Marmel]

Thanks for the 2 SBs Coach! A Syracuse alumni goes on to coach my favorite NFL team to 2 Bowls? Can't ask for a better story. :)

[BillJasper]

Miami is hot out of the gate with their eyes on some super candidates!

Josh McDaniels, Matt Patricia land on Dolphins coaching candidate list | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/04/josh-mcdaniels-matt-patricia-land-on-dolphins-coaching-candidate-list/)

:rolleyes:

[SteveMax58]

I have no idea why they would keep Reese as GM.

Me either....he should be out before Coughlin.

[Butter]

One San Diego station reporting that the Chargers have already filed for relocation to LA. Reports saying that all 3 of the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers are going to file. Surely, they aren't going to let all 3 of them move to LA? How will they determine who gets to move? I guess whatever makes them the most money.

[stevew]

The Browns have hired the last 5 head coaches in the AFC North.

[BillJasper]

The Browns have hired the last 5 head coaches in the AFC North.

They're consistent! :lol:

[Atocep]

One San Diego station reporting that the Chargers have already filed for relocation to LA. Reports saying that all 3 of the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers are going to file. Surely, they aren't going to let all 3 of them move to LA? How will they determine who gets to move? I guess whatever makes them the most money.

Clayton was speaking about this on the radio last week. He said it the Rams are probably out even though they have the best plot and stadium plan for LA. St. Louis stepped up with a solid stadium proposal so the NFL is expected to pressure the Rams into giving up their plot in exchange for some other kickback and they'll remain in St. Louis.

He said the Chargers and Raiders both received fairly weak stadium proposals from their cities so both moving there is a possibility.

In short, its going to come down to whichever city/cities don't give into the NFL's demands for public money to back a new stadium.

[Brian Swartz]

You really have to hand it to the Lions. Aside from the miserable Millen years, it doesn't matter whether they start great or badly, they almost always find a way to be mediocre. Not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a high draft position.

Maybe bring back Wayne 'We're the best darn 0-4 team in the NFL' Fontes?

[Dutch]

He said the Chargers and Raiders both received fairly weak stadium proposals from their cities so both moving there is a possibility.

In short, its going to come down to whichever city/cities don't give into the NFL's demands for public money to back a new stadium.

The NFL and the players and private investment should be paying for new stadiums, not "the public".

[Kodos]

Agreed.

[Abe Sargent]

I have no idea why they would keep Reese as GM.

Too loyal sometimes. I get it though, Giants are classy. But still.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks for the 2 SBs Coach! A Syracuse alumni goes on to coach my favorite NFL team to 2 Bowls? Can't ask for a better story. :)

He got my favorite team off the mark, 2 AFC Championships, and had real amazing players in his 9 years of play - Boselli at the head of them. Can't ask for too much more.

[Abe Sargent]

The NFL and the players and private investment should be paying for new stadiums, not "the public".

Its not uncommon for cities to levy and ehlp out with tax breaks, discounts, infrastructure, and more to entice major corporations to their city. Why would the NFL be different?


EDIT - Example from my home state. One of the best economic things to happen in my recent memory is Toyota opening up a plant to make parts for their vees in WV. We out incentivized other places and they choose us. After doing so, they have expanded the factory twice, we have thousands now employed, we have lots of other places opening in that area of Putnam county including stores, markets, restaurants, and more, and we have a flights now that are quick two hoppers to Tokyo and more. This is very common stuff.

[miami_fan]

The NFL and the players and private investment should be paying for new stadiums, not "the public".

The operative word being "should". The folks in San Diego and Oakland seem to agree with you.

[Eaglesfan27]

The last UCLA HC wasnt so bad for the Eagles :)

Philly has no interest in him. Philly is looking at a lot of former Eagles' guys and rising assistants. I doubt any NFL team does. He hasn't won big in college.

[flere-imsaho]

Its not uncommon for cities to levy and ehlp out with tax breaks, discounts, infrastructure, and more to entice major corporations to their city. Why would the NFL be different?

Are pro sports teams economic winners for cities? | Marketplace.org (http://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/business/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities)

[MrBug708]

Philly has no interest in him. Philly is looking at a lot of former Eagles' guys and rising assistants. I doubt any NFL team does. He hasn't won big in college.

He's not a college guy though. Nfl loves NFL guys. But that bowl loss probably cost him a job this year

[BillJasper]

The NFL and the players and private investment should be paying for new stadiums, not "the public".

+1

[panerd]

The NFL and the players and private investment should be paying for new stadiums, not "the public".

I would say 1 in 4 at best (and maybe even less) supports this stadium plan here in St. Louis and that is just a quarter sized chunk of the states population. My guess is nobody in Kansas City or Columbia or Cape Girardiou or Branson supports it at all. It's insane and a colossal waste of taxpayer money.

[Zinto]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Coach Pagano has agreed to an extension. Tune in live to watch the press conference at 10:30PM tonight</p>&mdash; Indianapolis Colts (@Colts) <a href="https://twitter.com/Colts/status/684202799979171842">January 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Huh?

[Abe Sargent]

Whoa?

[Abe Sargent]

Im glad though

[NobodyHere]

Pagano must have convinced Irsay to have Grigson back off or something.

[Thomkal]

wow I don't think any "expert" saw that coming, they've been saying he's gone since Week 1.

[Solecismic]

Its not uncommon for cities to levy and ehlp out with tax breaks, discounts, infrastructure, and more to entice major corporations to their city. Why would the NFL be different?


EDIT - Example from my home state. One of the best economic things to happen in my recent memory is Toyota opening up a plant to make parts for their vees in WV. We out incentivized other places and they choose us. After doing so, they have expanded the factory twice, we have thousands now employed, we have lots of other places opening in that area of Putnam county including stores, markets, restaurants, and more, and we have a flights now that are quick two hoppers to Tokyo and more. This is very common stuff.

I studied this extensively when Paul Allen was using his ownership of the Seahawks (but not his $50 billion personal fortune) to try and get Washington residents to buy him a fancy new stadium.

It turns out, according to experts, that a new stadium has about the same economic impact as a small strip mall. Too many temporary jobs.

If you want a stadium, you want it because you like thinking of your city as "major league." Surely that has some value. But the employment impact is far, far less than what these franchises would have you believe and the multipliers they use in their claims that game days are worth a lot to a community are often far greater than realistic.

[Dutch]

At Raymond James Stadium, a large portion of the stadium vendors and staff are volunteers, not paid employees. It's in a fairly low-income part of the city (as is Tropicana Field in St. Pete for the Rays) and I don't see any economic prosperity taking place. The Lightning play in trendy Channel-side but that seems to be a coincidence rather than "the Lightning made this part of town great".

[JPhillips]

From MMQB:

Fun facts about Jimmy Haslam’s 39-month tenure as owner of the Cleveland Browns:

• The Browns have employed 61 coaches in those three-plus seasons.

• Haslam has fired two presidents/CEOs (Mike Holmgren, Joe Banner), and, by Monday noon, three general managers (Tom Heckert, Mike Lombardi, Ray Farmer) and three coaches (Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine).

• Record since league approved Haslam as owner: 18-40.

• There have been four offensive coordinators on Haslam’s watch: Brad Childress, Norv Turner, Kyle Shanahan, John DeFilippo.

• The five first-round picks since Haslam bought the team: Barkevious Mingo, Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Danny Shelton, Cameron Erving.

Good luck next Cleveland coach!

[Abe Sargent]

I studied this extensively when Paul Allen was using his ownership of the Seahawks (but not his $50 billion personal fortune) to try and get Washington residents to buy him a fancy new stadium.

It turns out, according to experts, that a new stadium has about the same economic impact as a small strip mall. Too many temporary jobs.

If you want a stadium, you want it because you like thinking of your city as "major league." Surely that has some value. But the employment impact is far, far less than what these franchises would have you believe and the multipliers they use in their claims that game days are worth a lot to a community are often far greater than realistic.


Let me give you an example iof my own history,


As a gift, a friend of mine bought two tickets to see a Browns game at Cleveland, when they hosted my Jags. So we drove to Cleveland and arrived a bit before the game started. We paid for parking, and walked to the game. Then we showed the tickets and purchased a program, and two of those hot things to keep your hands warm cause it was colder than we expected. After the game we walked around Cleveland and explored, walked a few blocks, ate at a sit down restraint, and shopped in three stores, buying things in two of them.

These financial exchanges happened:

1). Two Browns tickets purchased
2). Parking paid for off site
3). 1 Program and 2 warmers purchased at Browns Stadium
4). 2 meals at a sit down restaurant
5). Purchases at two local stores


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

[BillJasper]

Definitely didn't see the Pagano extension coming.

[corbes]

Let me give you an example iof my own history,


As a gift, a friend of mine bought two tickets to see a Browns game at Cleveland, when they hosted my Jags. So we drove to Cleveland and arrived a bit before the game started. We paid for parking, and walked to the game. Then we showed the tickets and purchased a program, and two of those hot things to keep your hands warm cause it was colder than we expected. After the game we walked around Cleveland and explored, walked a few blocks, ate at a sit down restraint, and shopped in three stores, buying things in two of them.

These financial exchanges happened:

1). Two Browns tickets purchased
2). Parking paid for off site
3). 1 Program and 2 warmers purchased at Browns Stadium
4). 2 meals at a sit down restaurant
5). Purchases at two local stores


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

Sure, that's good for the city, but it only happens 8x per year.

And while you probably wouldn't have spent your money in Cleveland otherwise, for residents of the city, item #1 is a redistribution of entertainment dollars rather than an influx of new cash.

Your experience is true and valid and real, but the question is whether that experience is worth an investment of hundreds upon hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars.

[panerd]

Let me give you an example iof my own history,


As a gift, a friend of mine bought two tickets to see a Browns game at Cleveland, when they hosted my Jags. So we drove to Cleveland and arrived a bit before the game started. We paid for parking, and walked to the game. Then we showed the tickets and purchased a program, and two of those hot things to keep your hands warm cause it was colder than we expected. After the game we walked around Cleveland and explored, walked a few blocks, ate at a sit down restraint, and shopped in three stores, buying things in two of them.

These financial exchanges happened:

1). Two Browns tickets purchased
2). Parking paid for off site
3). 1 Program and 2 warmers purchased at Browns Stadium
4). 2 meals at a sit down restaurant
5). Purchases at two local stores


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

Even conceding all of this as normal (which you would admit is a bit of a stretch for every tailgater/restaurant eater there is a guy who will drive down for just the game) it isn't even the crux of the issue with St. Louis, San Diego, and Oakland. They all have a stadium where you could do everything you described at. These owners want the taxpayers to subsidize a new stadium because the current one isn't "good enough". That is what I take issue with.

EDIT: Though to be fair the Raider's grass/dirt baseball field would probably rank 32 out of 32 if I were ranking the stadiums.

[flere-imsaho]

Are pro sports teams economic winners for cities? | Marketplace.org (http://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/business/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities)

It turns out, according to experts, that a new stadium has about the same economic impact as a small strip mall. Too many temporary jobs.

See, if only you didn't have me on ignore.


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

As others have pointed out (and research has, too), it simply doesn't scale the way those lobbying for the stadia says it does.

[QuikSand]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

[BillJasper]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

I'm not opposed to the hire. But Haslem has to give Depodesta time. He can't be continually pulling the plug after one or two seasons.

[Klinglerware]

They need to find a quarterback who can get on base more...

[albionmoonlight]

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

They could do better.

[flere-imsaho]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

I think this is one of those situations where if you say "well, it can't get worse", it absolutely will.

So, to help Browns fans out I'm going to say it's going to get even worse before it gets better. You're welcome. :D

[BillJasper]

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

They could do better.

If they aren't going to go for a home-run, they should just keep Campbell who went 5-7 as the interim guy. Not bad considering both coordinators were fired in-season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

Good luck with that.

[miked]

What is so bad about Mike Smith? He guided the Falcons to the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons including a trip to the NFC title game. He had 2 bad games, but some of their signings were pretty bad. Steven Jackson, come on.

[Atocep]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.


It really sucks losing him. I was hoping whenever Alderson steps down Depodesta would be the replacement. The job he did rebuilding the Mets farm system is incredible and the guy is smart enough to learn the NFL quickly. If the Browns give him time and don't interfere he'll get them competitive.

[MrBug708]

Depodesta?

Lol

[albionmoonlight]

If the Browns give him time and don't interfere

[joke left as exercise for the reader]

[Atocep]

Depodesta?

Lol

Yes, the guy McCourt let Plaschke and Simers pressure him into firing.

[MrBug708]

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

[JonInMiddleGA]

What is so bad about Mike Smith? He guided the Falcons to the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons including a trip to the NFC title game. He had 2 bad games, but some of their signings were pretty bad. Steven Jackson, come on.

Comical clock management, the inability to lead starving dogs to fresh meat, frequently appeared simply overmatched for the job.

His ceiling is a low one.

[BillJasper]

What is so bad about Mike Smith?

I'm just not interested in a retread.

[Logan]

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

Maybe he just got too much, too soon. He was widely credited with doing a lot of great things internally for the Mets, and it sounds like he'll be doing similar things with the Browns. Doesn't seem like he's making the #2 overall pick or whatever.

[Logan]

BTW what odds would you need to take to wager on both Pagano and Grigson making it more than 2 years into their new 4 year deals?

[Atocep]

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

He brought in Kent, Lowe, and JD Drew all of whom played well for the Dodgers.

He flipped Jason Frasor For Jayson Werth. Flipped Steve Colyer for Cody Ross.

The only move that could really be spun as bad that he made was the Lo Duca/Encarnacion trade which did bring in Brad Penny who pitched well from '05-'07.

He also drafted Carlos Santana, Kenley Jansen, David Price (who didn't sign), and didn't trade away the top prospects White had brought in during his time as GM.

If that's your worst GM ever then life is pretty damned good.

[NobodyHere]

BTW what odds would you need to take to wager on both Pagano and Grigson making it more than 2 years into their new 4 year deals?

I think this depends largely on Andrew Luck's health.

[MrBug708]

He brought in Kent, Lowe, and JD Drew all of whom played well for the Dodgers.

He flipped Jason Frasor For Jayson Werth. Flipped Steve Colyer for Cody Ross.

The only move that could really be spun as bad that he made was the Lo Duca/Encarnacion trade which did bring in Brad Penny who pitched well from '05-'07.

He also drafted Carlos Santana, Kenley Jansen, David Price (who didn't sign), and didn't trade away the top prospects White had brought in during his time as GM.

If that's your worst GM ever then life is pretty damned good.
Second worst. But he did suck enough for us to land the pick for Kershaw

[cuervo72]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

So...they're probably going to acquire Michael Oher then?

[SteveMax58]

So...they're probably going to acquire Michael Oher then?

Of course....his 86 overall rating is better than their current 82 overall in Madden.

[miami_fan]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

Not if the owner continues to get draft advice from the homeless.

[JPhillips]

Count me as very skeptical that Depodesta will work out. What's he going to end up doing that a GM or head coach will be comfortable with? It seems like a power struggle is inevitable. Now if he becomes the GM with a solid football mind as assistant, maybe it can work.

[sabotai]

Giants are interviewing their two coordinators (McAdoo and Spags) but also added to the list of interviewees are Carolina's DC Sean McDermott, Bears OC Adam Gase and former Bills HC Doug Marrone. I'm sure there's a lot to the story and that he probably had good reasons (at least good in his mind), but it doesn't sit well with me as a fan that Marrone bailed on Buffalo after two seasons. I'd prefer McDermott out of the pack. But he's also being targeted by Philly and considering he spent most of his career there, he'd probably choose them over NY.

(Edit: There's a lot of interest in Sean Payton among fans, but I haven't seen anything about him being interviewed yet).

[SteveMax58]

Giants are interviewing their two coordinators (McAdoo and Spags) but also added to the list of interviewees are Carolina's DC Sean McDermott, Bears OC Adam Gase and former Bills HC Doug Marrone. I'm sure there's a lot to the story and that he probably had good reasons (at least good in his mind), but it doesn't sit well with me as a fan that Marrone bailed on Buffalo after two seasons. I'd prefer McDermott out of the pack. But he's also being targeted by Philly and considering he spent most of his career there, he'd probably choose them over NY.

(Edit: There's a lot of interest in Sean Payton among fans, but I haven't seen anything about him being interviewed yet).

My guess based on what I know of the Marra & Tisch families and their thinking (purely speculative here) is that at the moment (pre-interview stage) they would love to attract a Saban type followed by possible interest in Sean Payton. But I suspect they will question how badly either of them really want to win, as that theme seemed to permeate the language they have been using the past few days, as well as Jerry Reese.

And while I think they are open to outside (non-Giants ties) candidates, they won't likely have their socks blown off by Gase or McDermott enough to go against that trend. In the end, I get the feeling that if it isn't Saban, it ends up being McAdoo...as they don't want to lose him & the comfortability factor with Eli.

[Neuqua]

I think Adam Gase has the potential to be a really good head coach somewhere. Selfishly I'm hoping he stays with the Bears another year.

[NobodyHere]

Please let this happen

Report: Titans request to interview former Colts general manager Chris Polian - Stampede Blue (http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/6/10725448/report-titans-request-to-interview-former-colts-general-manager-chris-polian)

[JAG]

According to the Detroit Free Press, "several people who know" Calvin Johnson think he could retire this offseason.

I know he's been beat up the past few years, but I'm still surprised by this.

[Coffee Warlord]

Lovie's gone.

[sabotai]

With Jameis Winston as their QB, Chip Kelly to TB would make sense.

[stevew]

What?

I could see doing it last year since they were so bad, but I thought the team took a good step forward this year

[JPhillips]

It seems like they have to have someone big lined up.

[Coffee Warlord]

They have to have someone lined up.

Though, after a quick look, his defense was 25th in points allowed last year, and 26th this year. Hardly an endorsement for an uber-defensive minded coach.

[Dutch]

I was pretty much stunned by the firing of Lovie today. Not that I thought he was a great (or even a good coach) but I figured the Bucs were at least happy for some stability for a change...guess not!

Lots of unhappy Bucs players are taking to Twitter...but the outrage is coming from a collective that went 8-24 the last two seasons...so...we all know the name of the game is to win.

The most interesting comment from a current Bucs players comes from journeyman TE Brandon Myers ‏@myersb83 - "Dirk has been the man since he walked in the door"

It's possible the Bucs were concerned they would lose him as the OC and perhaps will promote him now to HC?

[Dutch]

They have to have someone lined up.

Though, after a quick look, his defense was 25th in points allowed last year, and 26th this year. Hardly an endorsement for an uber-defensive minded coach.

With all the rule changes to defense the last couple of years, I think it's safe to say that Lovie's implementation of the Tampa-2 has become obsolete.

Might have worked out better if we had a dominant front-4 and a secondary capable of handling the Tampa-2 workload. Neither showed much...our LB's have been stellar though...which might just be a by-product of them doing all the work!

[Dutch]

Peter Schrager ‏@PSchrags 10m10 minutes ago

Told Dirk Koetter was surprised as everyone by this. More to come

Apparently he doesn't know he's the man.

[Thomkal]

Sean Payton staying in New Orleans.

[Thomkal]

Seems too early to fire Lovie after getting a franchise QB-not enough time to develop him.

[bhlloy]

All these owners are doing is surely making it impossible to get a top tier guy in the future when they quickly hook a guy who had a young or terrible team. Who in their right mind is going to go to the 49ers, Browns or to a lesser extent the Bucs for the for the next few years?

All you are doing is getting into a cycle of gambling on a lesser known name and hoping you hit the lottery and he can win in his first year. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm with you on the 49ers, but I don't think that anyone thinks any less of the franchise ownership because of what happened to Tomsula. That ship sailed last offseason. Then again, this opinion might just be because I'm a jaded fan who is still floored at how quickly the team cratered.

I think the Bucs job will be desirable just because of the talent there.

[flere-imsaho]

Lovie's gone.

I think they meant to fire Louis Van Gaal instead.

[Logan]

I'm with you on the 49ers, but I don't think that anyone thinks any less of the franchise ownership because of what happened to Tomsula. That ship sailed last offseason. Then again, this opinion might just be because I'm a jaded fan who is still floored at how quickly the team cratered.

I think the Bucs job will be desirable just because of the talent there.

Plenty of coaches will be okay with getting fired after one year and collecting $14 million for the effort, like Tomsula.

[Coffee Warlord]

Seems too early to fire Lovie after getting a franchise QB-not enough time to develop him.

Hell, that would be a REASON to fire Lovie, in my mind. Jameis looks like he might be worth something, it's time to dump Lovie and get someone in there who actually is competent at developing QB's.

[Thomkal]

Hell, that would be a REASON to fire Lovie, in my mind. Jameis looks like he might be worth something, it's time to dump Lovie and get someone in there who actually is competent at developing QB's.


Perhaps then they should never have hired Lovie in the first place if he had such a bad reputation at developing QB's. They knew they were going to go QB with their first pick with Winston. I'm not a Lovie defender by any means, I just think he wasn't given enough time to develop him is all.

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't think they should have. :) I *never* liked Lovie in Chicago.

But, to be fair, I'm really just trying to come up with various theories to defend the firing - it's definitely one of the more bizarre ones this season.

[bhlloy]

Plenty of coaches will be okay with getting fired after one year and collecting $14 million for the effort, like Tomsula.

This is kinda my point though, sure plenty of mediocre borderline NFL head coaches or long shots are going to love to collect $14 million for one season of effort, but you aren't going to get the really good candidates doing it this way, because they just aren't going to give you the time of day. It's not like in the NFL these days these one and done candidates are ever getting another shot.

And yeah, the 49ers are likely not going to get top candidates for a long time with the way things went down a year ago, and ditto for the Browns under Haslam. But maybe if you give Tomsula another year and recognize that he didn't do such a terrible job in a complete clusterfuck of a situation, maybe coaches see that and your reputation starts to head in the right direction again. I can't imagine they are going to get someone great who turns things right around anyway. I may be wrong.

[corbes]

I've lost touch with who the Philly beat writers are, but the suggestion they're making is that it's Doug Pederson's race to lose, with Adam Gase in second place.

[Atocep]

Hopefully Chicago gets at least another year from Gase.

[albionmoonlight]

And yeah, the 49ers are likely not going to get top candidates for a long time with the way things went down a year ago, and ditto for the Browns under Haslam. But maybe if you give Tomsula another year and recognize that he didn't do such a terrible job in a complete clusterfuck of a situation, maybe coaches see that and your reputation starts to head in the right direction again. I can't imagine they are going to get someone great who turns things right around anyway. I may be wrong.

Yeah. One thing that I think was smart about the Falcons sticking with Mike Smith one year too long--it was a new(ish) owner sending a message that he will give coaches the benefit of the doubt and every chance to turn things around.

You really want to get a reputation of stability (Giants, Steelers) instead of constant rebuilding.

[stevew]

So the draft.

Tennessee at #1 has an exciting decision. They can stay at #1 and take Bosa or Tunsil(who unfortunately would be called "Turnstile" if he has a bad game). Or they can Hope that someone falls in love with Goff and trade out for mad bank.

The Cowboys(maybe), Niners, Dolphins(less likely) and Eagles all need a QB. Seems like a Jerry type move to trade to #1 if they want Goff. Maybe the best move would simply be for the Titans and Browns to work out a trade before a bidding war for #1 ensues? Titans and Browns swap first and second round picks and the Browns give up their 3rd perhaps?

[albionmoonlight]

Maybe the best move would simply be for the Titans and Browns to work out a trade before a bidding war for #1 ensues?

Why wouldn't the Titans want a bidding war?

[stevew]

Why wouldn't the Titans want a bidding war?

Lemme clarify. I think they would want a war, but the Titans may love the OT or the DE so much that they don't want to drop past 3. Getting the first pick on day 2 would allow them a ton of trade flexibility. An extra 3rd gets them into the mid 20s if they want to trade up into the first.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Is there anyone good enough for any kind of bidding war to break out? Is Goff really considered that good a prospect?

[Logan]

I'd be really surprised if Goff or any of the QBs lead to anything near what we have seen in the past in terms of what teams are willing to trade to move up.

[Thomkal]

Dallas is going to trade for/sign "Johnny Football" after Cleveland releases him, so no need to trade up tp #1 :)

[JeeberD]

Seems like a Jerry type move to trade to #1 if they want Goff.

Jerry trades down, very rarely does he trade up. He likes trying to find the diamond in the rough instead of spending money on a high pick. He's only drafted one QB in the first round (and only 4 total) during his 25 years in Dallas...Troy Aikman.

Dallas is going to trade for/sign "Johnny Football" after Cleveland releases him, so no need to trade up tp #1 :)

You shut your filthy mouth!

[Kodos]

He really is a Jerry kind of player, isn't he? My jerk-magnet theory also suggests Maziel to Dallas or Baltimore.

[JonInMiddleGA]

it was a new(ish) owner sending a message that he will give coaches the benefit of the doubt and every chance to turn things around.

Or the message that it's okay to suck.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm surprised that there's even any question that Manziel is going to be in Dallas next year.

[SteveMax58]

Detroit Lions to hire Bob Quinn as general manager - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000619585/article/detroit-lions-to-hire-bob-quinn-as-general-manager)

Interesting move. Don't know much about Quinn but I guess he can't be all bad right?

[Dutch]

Perhaps then they should never have hired Lovie in the first place if he had such a bad reputation at developing QB's. They knew they were going to go QB with their first pick with Winston. I'm not a Lovie defender by any means, I just think he wasn't given enough time to develop him is all.

I hear Lovie is going to be the OC in Arizona next year if their OC jumps ship for a HC position. :) Just give him time...

[Thomkal]

God help us

[sabotai]

Dallas is going to trade for/sign "Johnny Football" after Cleveland releases him, so no need to trade up tp #1 :)

I fully support this!

[BillJasper]

I hear Lovie is going to be the OC in Arizona next year if their OC jumps ship for a HC position. :) Just give him time...

DC?

[Suicane75]

DC?

Arizona

[Abe Sargent]

Arizona

I think he was asking if that was a typo and meant DC or defensive coordinator, not OC.

[Suicane75]

I think he was asking if that was a typo and meant DC or defensive coordinator, not OC.

He wasssssssssssssssss? ;)

[Dutch]

I think he was asking if that was a typo and meant DC or defensive coordinator, not OC.

I should've quoted my reference. It was all just meant for Thomkal who suggested Lovie should've gotten more time.

In theory, it sounds like the nice thing to do, but if Lovie's greatest accomplishment in 2 years is drafting Jameis Winston first overall and then watching Jameis be successful as a rookie, that's a bad sign. Since Lovie had very little, if anything to do with it.

So...if we are going to give accolades to Lovie for the offense as a reason he should've stayed (and with back to back bottom of the barrel defenses which he was the "mastermind" of) then it would only make sense to challenge the logic Thomkal was putting out there by offering him up for AZ's potential OC vacancy.

C'mon people, keep up! Work with me here! :)

[Abe Sargent]

Tampa also had a running back reutn to his old form as well. Does Lovie get credit for getting Doug Martin back to his 1st year of form? He improved on his best-ever season of 4.6 ypc as a rookie to 4.9, carried the ball a bit less and still finished with 1400+ yards. He also got All Pro nod. Does Lovie not get some credit for that?

[Thomkal]

I should've quoted my reference. It was all just meant for Thomkal who suggested Lovie should've gotten more time.

In theory, it sounds like the nice thing to do, but if Lovie's greatest accomplishment in 2 years is drafting Jameis Winston first overall and then watching Jameis be successful as a rookie, that's a bad sign. Since Lovie had very little, if anything to do with it.

So...if we are going to give accolades to Lovie for the offense as a reason he should've stayed (and with back to back bottom of the barrel defenses which he was the "mastermind" of) then it would only make sense to challenge the logic Thomkal was putting out there by offering him up for AZ's potential OC vacancy.

C'mon people, keep up! Work with me here! :)

Don't challenge my "logic"! :)

[EagleFan]

I don't get all the hype over Gase. With all of Peyton's audibling it's not exactly a major feather in his cap being the OC that time frame. I would not consider the Bears' offense impressive. I don't get it.

[sabotai]

Miami Dolphins hire Adam Gase as new head coach - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000619758/article/dolphins-hire-adam-gase-as-coach-sign-5year-deal)

Gase to the Dolphins.

[NobodyHere]

Coughlin is talking to the Eagles?

[Atocep]

I don't get all the hype over Gase. With all of Peyton's audibling it's not exactly a major feather in his cap being the OC that time frame. I would not consider the Bears' offense impressive. I don't get it.

The bears had a top 10 offense this year with a group of receivers no one could name and Cutler had his best season as a bear.

[NobodyHere]

The bears had a top 10 offense this year with a group of receivers no one could name and Cutler had his best season as a bear.

What stats are you looking at?

The Bears were 23rd in points per game and 21st in yards per game.

[Atocep]

What stats are you looking at?

The Bears were 23rd in points per game and 21st in yards per game.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2015 OFFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff)

10th in DVOA and 9th in weighted offense.

[EagleFan]

I put a lot more faith in the points and yardage stat. I've watched their games. There is nothing top ten about that offense.

[Atocep]

I put a lot more faith in the points and yardage stat. I've watched their games. There is nothing top ten about that offense.

Points and yardage don't tell the whole story for any team at any level. I watched every Bears game this year and after Cutler came back from injury the offense was very good despite a revolving door at receiver and Forte missing time. The 9-12 range is about where I would have expected them to be based on how they played after the Seattle game.

Gase's offense isn't what's going to determine whether or not he's a successful head coach or not anyway. It's going to be his organizational skills, ability to handle players, and how he handles a game. Coordinators are judged far too heavily on how well they coach a particular side of the ball when their impact in that area becomes more limited as a head coach.

[EagleFan]

Points and yardage don't tell the whole story for any team at any level. I watched every Bears game this year and after Cutler came back from injury the offense was very good despite a revolving door at receiver and Forte missing time. The 9-12 range is about where I would have expected them to be based on how they played after the Seattle game.

Gase's offense isn't what's going to determine whether or not he's a successful head coach or not anyway. It's going to be his organizational skills, ability to handle players, and how he handles a game. Coordinators are judged far too heavily on how well they coach a particular side of the ball when their impact in that area becomes more limited as a head coach.

I have no clue if he will be a good coach; I am just saying that I don't see what suddenly made him the "it" person this year.

We saw how well that worked out for Chip Kelly.

[cuervo72]

Czaban was commenting on that the other day - the fact that there always has to be that "it" coordinator. And that he had no idea why Gase was picked for it, unless there just isn't anybody else.

[EagleFan]

As for the Bears offense:

Yards per game: 21st
Yards per play: 21st
1st Downs per game: 21st
3rd down percentage: 6th
Time of Possession: 8th
Points per game: 23rd
Completion %: 13th
Yards per pass attempt: 13th
Passer Rating: 16th
Yards per Carry: 16th
Sacks Allowed: 12th

What of that makes the offense a "top 10" offense in the league? Middle of the road at best.

[Abe Sargent]

Best News Ever!

The Jags are heading back to teh Senior Bowl for the thrid year in a row! So awesome.


Here re the Senior Bowl players we drafted in 2014 as one example of how awesome we learned these folks:


3rd - OG Brandon Linder - Often the lone good O LIne on our team
4th - CB AAron Colvin - great nickel, forced into a starter this yer and wasn't hot at it, but we'll likely slide him back to nickel to where he flourishes
5th - LB Telvin Smith - Amazing value pick, we robbed the league with this pick
6th - DE Chris Smith - Didn't really do a lot

2015 - CB NIck Marshall was a UFA we grabbed and he looks pretty saucy


Love to see a 2014-eque sweep of the great players from the Senior Bowl.

[Atocep]

As for the Bears offense:

Yards per game: 21st
Yards per play: 21st
1st Downs per game: 21st
3rd down percentage: 6th
Time of Possession: 8th
Points per game: 23rd
Completion %: 13th
Yards per pass attempt: 13th
Passer Rating: 16th
Yards per Carry: 16th
Sacks Allowed: 12th

What of that makes the offense a "top 10" offense in the league? Middle of the road at best.

You can choose to go by raw numbers or per play, per drive, adjusted for opponent metrics.

[cuervo72]

Probably reading too much into it, but that was an interesting exchange between Gruden and Tirico. Gruden throws out a stat, Tirico replies with "Seven years ago when you started here you didn't care at all about stats, now here you are with a stack of them." Gruden answers with a "I'm going to miss you man" and a big handshake. I know it's the last ESPN game for a while and Gruden may just miss Tirico over the offseason, but that almost read like Gruden was going back to coaching.

[Simbo Klice]

Maybe Gruden is working behind the scenes to get Tirico fired?

[cuervo72]

Hah.

[Jon]

Probably reading too much into it, but that was an interesting exchange between Gruden and Tirico. Gruden throws out a stat, Tirico replies with "Seven years ago when you started here you didn't care at all about stats, now here you are with a stack of them." Gruden answers with a "I'm going to miss you man" and a big handshake. I know it's the last ESPN game for a while and Gruden may just miss Tirico over the offseason, but that almost read like Gruden was going back to coaching.

I heard on sports radio that Gruden reached out to the Eagles.

[miked]

I get advanced statistics tell some sort of story, but if you can't judge an offense by points and yardage, what else really matters?

Unless your kicker is 0-50 on FG, pts and yds are pretty important!

[cuervo72]

I heard on sports radio that Gruden reached out to the Eagles.

Oh well if you heard it on sports radio.

;)

(I wouldn't dismiss that possibility though, he was there for 3 years as OC early in Lurie's ownership. Would he want to go into the same division as his brother?)

[Abe Sargent]

I like the Tampa situation the best of those open. But obv that makes no sense for Gruden since he was there before.

[jbergey22]

I get advanced statistics tell some sort of story, but if you can't judge an offense by points and yardage, what else really matters?

Unless your kicker is 0-50 on FG, pts and yds are pretty important!

Advanced Statistics just try to take as many variables out of it as possible. If you play the Seahawks and gain 350 yards it is VERY impressive. If you do that against the Saints it is just a normal game against the Saints. Advanced football stats are far from perfect though.

[stevew]

who's coaching the Bengals next year? Hue?

[JonInMiddleGA]

who's coaching the Bengals next year? Hue?

Lovie :D

[Dutch]

Lovie :D

Ouch.

[cuervo72]

Not Chip, that's for sure.

[rowech]

who's coaching the Bengals next year? Hue?

Gruden or Cowher but Cowher would never do it.

[Abe Sargent]

I think a Lewis fire only makes sense for the right coach. Not some untested rookie coach.


It calls for....


Tom Coughlin


I am not kidding. I would throw a shit pot of money at someone to get Coughlin in there,

[rowech]

I think a Lewis fire only makes sense for the right coach. Not some untested rookie coach.


It calls for....


Tom Coughlin


I am not kidding. I would throw a shit pot of money at someone to get Coughlin in there,

His age worries me as does the fact his clock management isn't any better than Lewis'.

[stevew]

Bengals not expected to make coaching change.

[JPhillips]

Bengals not expected to make coaching change.

Of course not. It's like people have forgotten that Mike Brown runs things. If he let Shula lose and stay, there's no way he's firing the guy that wins.

[rowech]

There was an ad on during the GB-WAS game maybe 20 minutes ago advertising for Cincinnati fans to buy their 2016 season tickets now.

[cuervo72]

There was one here for the Redskins. Probably a slot devoted to that for all of the markets.

[Abe Sargent]

Of course not. It's like people have forgotten that Mike Brown runs things. If he let Shula lose and stay, there's no way he's firing the guy that wins.

We've regularly seen head coaches that got their team to the playoffs and kept losing a lot get fired in order to get over the hump. The owner or GM wanted to push things to the Super Bowl level. While that has happened a few times, it rarely works. Often the team takes a step back or crashes to the ground, and then a few years later, people are looking at that run as the "glory days" of the team, we've seen this happen a lot with frequent flyers but not deep runs into the playoffs.

the more likely result of cutting Lewis free seems to me to take a step back and start missing the playoffs altogether than to take a step forward and start winning playoff games.

[JPhillips]

They'll almost certainly take a step back next year as it is. They'll lose their OC and possibly DC, a number of free agents that thy can't afford to pay and they'll have the division winner schedule. With the likely hangover from this lose and the quotes about lack of discipline all season weighing on the team, they'll be likely to be a few games under this years total.

[BillJasper]

Adam Gase doesn't excite me as a Dolphins fan, too many first time losers have already been through the door (Cameron, Sparano, Philbin). Though I wonder why they brought in yet another offensive guy when they haven't had success with any of the others they've hired?

I do think Gase is a better pick than Mike Smith or Shanahan. Though I think I'd have rather kept Dan Campbell, if we're going with another offensive guy.

[corbes]

Eagles interviewed Doug Pederson today

[Vince, Pt. II]

...the division winner schedule.

Is this still even a thing? That's two games per season that are different.

NFL Schedule:

6 games against your division.
4 games against opposite conference division (rotating).
4 games against same conference division (rotating).
2 games against the two other same conference division teams that finished in the same slot as you.

True, that's two games against difficult opponents...but it's not like this is the end of the world here.

[miami_fan]

Adam Gase doesn't excite me as a Dolphins fan, too many first time losers have already been through the door (Cameron, Sparano, Philbin). Though I wonder why they brought in yet another offensive guy when they haven't had success with any of the others they've hired?

I do think Gase is a better pick than Mike Smith or Shanahan. Though I think I'd have rather kept Dan Campbell, if we're going with another offensive guy.

This is all about giving Tannehill his final chance with the organization. Well that and there is very little chance any of the retreads the team would never take this job given the organization's current reputation around the league.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bengals not expected to make coaching change.

Then they probably shouldn't expect any change of fortunes either.

[miami_fan]

Rex hired Rob to be DC for the Bills. That will be fun.

[albionmoonlight]

Kirk Cousins' free agency coming at a very significant time for Washington.

I could see it going any number of ways. I could see Bill Barnwell writing a column three years from now about how the Cousins' contract killed Washington's cap and how it should serve as a warning to teams wanting to sign guys to big money based on a low sample size.

I could also see him writing an article three years from now about how--despite all of Dan Snyder's attempts at making splash moves in the draft and free agency--quietly drafting Cousins in the middle rounds was the most important move that the team made in the last twenty years and the reason that they are the Super Bowl favorites.

Or, most likely, somewhere in between.

What's fair value for him? In what tier of QBs should he be paid?

[QuikSand]

I think Cousins can/will get something like 4/60. Setting aside what that says about society and all that stuff, I think that's what it takes to keep him from the open market, and it's probably roughly what he would land if he made it there. He'll stay.

[albionmoonlight]

That seems to be a shorter version of the Tannehill contract. That seems about right.

[Thomkal]

Rex hired Rob to be DC for the Bills. That will be fun.

apparently he did not watch any Saints games this year. If they weren't related no way he hires him I think.

[Thomkal]

So where does RGIII end up?

RG3 cleans out locker, leaves Redskins a parting note | FOX Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/washington-redskins-robert-griffin-rg3-released-leaves-note-011116?cmpid=tsmfb:fscom:foxsports)

[EagleFan]

He should have left three words...

You Like That?

[Thomkal]

He should have left three words...

You Like That?

:)

It's been pretty clear that ever since they drafted him, the Redskins were not sure RGIII would work in DC. He'd get hurt, or wouldn't live up to the hype. Now they can both go their separate ways, and we will see if another team can make it work with him.

[BillJasper]

So where does RGIII end up?

RG3 cleans out locker, leaves Redskins a parting note | FOX Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/washington-redskins-robert-griffin-rg3-released-leaves-note-011116?cmpid=tsmfb:fscom:foxsports)

I wonder whose going to overpay for someone with his injury history and be disappointed when he's injured most of the time?

Someone will.

[stevew]

Arizona should offer RG3 a backup spot behind Palmer. There's only 14 active players left in his draft class(and 3 from 2002). Odds are that Palmer will be out of the league in about 2 seasons.

[SteveMax58]

I wonder whose going to overpay for someone with his injury history and be disappointed when he's injured most of the time?

Someone will.

We havent figured out where Chip Kelly will land yet so...

[JAG]

I think Cousins can/will get something like 4/60. Setting aside what that says about society and all that stuff, I think that's what it takes to keep him from the open market, and it's probably roughly what he would land if he made it there. He'll stay.

I think that's pretty low. The franchise tag is about 20-25M if they don't want him to go on the open market. If he goes on the open market, some team will pay way more than that to get him. I think you're underestimating how QB-starved a number of teams are.

[EagleFan]

That is far too high of a price for him.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I think 15m is the absolute starting price for Cousins and probably a bit higher. There are 10 teams in the league who would kill for what he did over a full season this year.

[stevew]

Burfict suspended for 3 games next season.

[JAG]

That is far too high of a price for him.

In case it wasn't clear, I meant someone will pay more than 15M/year for him on the open market, not more than the franchise tag, due to supply and demand. In his position, if he wants to maximize cash, he should force Washington to pony up for a much better deal or use the franchise tag to keep him around. It would be awful PR if Washington didn't retain him and tried to trot out Hoying for example, so they're fairly stuck unless Cousins has a awful agent.

[Thomkal]

Looking like St Louis and San Diego might be the winners of the LA lottery:

Momentum running against Oakland Raiders in NFL L.A. relocation, reports L.A. Times - Athletics Nation (http://www.athleticsnation.com/2016/1/11/10750802/momentum-running-against-oakland-raiders-in-l-a-relocation-effort)

[JPhillips]

It won't happen, but I'd love the three cities to band together and say if any team leaves the other(s) will never get public financed stadium improvements. STL and SD leaving would screw the Raiders and boy would that be fun to see play out.

[cuervo72]

Heh, that's what I said to some a few days ago. Having two AFC teams move to the same city would be too radical, StL moving made more sense, and owners can stick it to a Davis. :)

[stevew]

I don't think 2 AFC teams are allowed in same city

[cuervo72]

Ok, having two teams move there would be messy - because one would have to move to the NFC. And then you'd additionally have to figure out who to move out of the NFC (and they probably wouldn't make it as easy as returning Seattle).

[JPhillips]

Is it city or media market? The two stadium plans are in different cities if I remember correctly.

[cuervo72]

The original plan from OAK/SD had them playing in the same facility. Though...I'm not sure if there is a set radius. There may be.

[bhlloy]

Is it city or media market? The two stadium plans are in different cities if I remember correctly.

Carson and Inglewood are 10-15 miles away from each other. The different cities part is about as much of a technicality as you could get, I very much doubt the NFL is that stupid

[kingfc22]

Wasn't there new talks with the Rams and Chargers going in with a single stadium?

[cuervo72]

It would mean striking a bargain that keeps the Raiders out of L.A. but doesn't leave them empty handed. Such a maneuver could mean that the Raiders return to Oakland in the short term, but can explore relocating to other cities, among them San Diego, St. Louis or joining the San Francisco 49ers in their new stadium in Santa Clara.

You know it's too bad the NFL couldn't compensate Davis by putting money towards a new facility or anything.

[BillJasper]

Looking like St Louis and San Diego might be the winners of the LA lottery:

Momentum running against Oakland Raiders in NFL L.A. relocation, reports L.A. Times - Athletics Nation (http://www.athleticsnation.com/2016/1/11/10750802/momentum-running-against-oakland-raiders-in-l-a-relocation-effort)

I doubt Mark Davis can come up with a $500 million dollar relocation fee and the money needed to put towards his share of the stadium in LA.

[ISiddiqui]

Wasn't there new talks with the Rams and Chargers going in with a single stadium?

It was originally the Chargers and Raiders having the same stadium in Carson, with the Rams having a stadium in Inglewood. But... it seems like the idea is to have the Rams and Chargers move to Inglewood:

NFL consensus builds for a Rams-Chargers stadium project in Inglewood - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-la-relocation-20160112-story.html)

[BillJasper]

I'm thinking Oakland will have to come up with a deal soon or else the Raiders will end up in St. Louis, in 2017.

[albionmoonlight]

If you are Kirk Cousins, you need to think in terms of long-term value. Any contract he signs is going to be large. He could certainly maximize this particular deal by insisting on hitting UFA.


But, in D.C., he's got a coach who is 100% behind him, a coach who knows how to use him, and a large media market that (currently) loves him. Personally, I'd take $15 million/year for that over, say, $19 million/year to go to Cleveland or Houston or some other unknown situation.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm thinking Oakland will have to come up with a deal soon or else the Raiders will end up in St. Louis, in 2017.

That'd be kind of hilarious if that actually happened. So the Raiders have moved from Oakland to LA, back to Oakland, and then in attempting to move to LA, end up in St. Louis. ;)

[BillJasper]

If you are Kirk Cousins, you need to think in terms of long-term value. Any contract he signs is going to be large. He could certainly maximize this particular deal by insisting on hitting UFA.


But, in D.C., he's got a coach who is 100% behind him, a coach who knows how to use him, and a large media market that (currently) loves him. Personally, I'd take $15 million/year for that over, say, $19 million/year to go to Cleveland or Houston or some other unknown situation.

He'll have an agent in his ear, talking about disrespect if the Redskins don't match the highest offer and will likely end up in a terrible situation by going where the most money is at.

[Abe Sargent]

I think that's pretty low. The franchise tag is about 20-25M if they don't want him to go on the open market. If he goes on the open market, some team will pay way more than that to get him. I think you're underestimating how QB-starved a number of teams are.


I think you may be overestimating it a bit.

1). We have RG3 hitting FA soon. Maybe Colin as well. They are likely to get some looks. There are some others that hit the street that are interesting.
2). A lot of teams that gambled for 1st rounder QBs the last two years have hit on their selections, or seem to. Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles, Mariota, and Winiston all look good. Normally you'd have one or two or three in there that were crap, and reduce things. All look set.


So that reduces the number of teams looking, and there are competitors on the market that are interesting this year or next year.

[Logan]

RG3 and Kaep are going to be viewed as reclamation projects. Seem like very different markets.

[JAG]

I think you may be overestimating it a bit.

1). We have RG3 hitting FA soon. Maybe Colin as well. They are likely to get some looks. There are some others that hit the street that are interesting.
2). A lot of teams that gambled for 1st rounder QBs the last two years have hit on their selections, or seem to. Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles, Mariota, and Winiston all look good. Normally you'd have one or two or three in there that were crap, and reduce things. All look set.


So that reduces the number of teams looking, and there are competitors on the market that are interesting this year or next year.

I think Cousins has an edge on RG3 and Kaep as they were QBs appearing to be trending downward (from starters to backups) vs Cousins who improved as the year went on and started for a playoff team. Objectively, it's possible they're closer than is acknowledged now, but if you're an owner selling hope, easier to do that with Cousins.

2. is an interesting point, but off the top of my head, Eagles, Rams, Browns, Texans, 49ers are in pretty dire need of a QB, and I think that's a big enough market to drive up the market.

[MizzouRah]

It was originally the Chargers and Raiders having the same stadium in Carson, with the Rams having a stadium in Inglewood. But... it seems like the idea is to have the Rams and Chargers move to Inglewood:

NFL consensus builds for a Rams-Chargers stadium project in Inglewood - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-la-relocation-20160112-story.html)

Yep.. SD and Rams to Inglewood, it's all but confirmed. Oakland will get some sort of NFL money to get a stadium I'm guessing.

Two teams in my lifetime.. the NFL can go F themselves.

I'll continue to watch the Chiefs and this seasons playoffs, but next year just might be the time I move on and invest that time into other local sports.

[bhlloy]

ESPN ticker says Raiders and Chargers?

Either way, the Chargers are very much going to be the odd team out and I wonder if it lasts. The Raiders have a huge LA fan base, the Rams still have some but the Chargers fans are mostly daytrippers from the OC - if they were the only team moving I'm sure it would work but with a team that already has an established base, I'm struggling to see where 80k fans a week is going to come from.

[MrBug708]

I hope they change their names

[bhlloy]

If I was the NFL I'm not sure I wouldn't just move the Raiders, but sounds like they can't pony up the cash for the stadium by themselves. The Chargers will be the poor little sisters with either team and St. Louis is not a bad situation, Kroeneke with $$$$ signs in his eyes notwithstanding

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yep.. SD and Rams to Inglewood, it's all but confirmed. Oakland will get some sort of NFL money to get a stadium I'm guessing.

Two teams in my lifetime.. the NFL can go F themselves.

I'll continue to watch the Chiefs and this seasons playoffs, but next year just might be the time I move on and invest that time into other local sports.

No move Govenor's Cup.

Time to bring in a MLS team to fill that dome.

[panerd]

I saw hope the St. Louis tv execs operate differently than they did when the cardinals left. We got their games (and crappy NFC East games) for like five years. I don't care about the LA Rams or how their division opponents are doing please give me quality games over 49ers/Browns or Rams/Redskins.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I saw hope the St. Louis tv execs operate differently than they did when the cardinals left. We got their games (and crappy NFC East games) for like five years. I don't care about the LA Rams or how their division opponents are doing please give me quality games over 49ers/Browns or Rams/Redskins.

That isn't up to anyone in St.Louis. Those games are dictated by the league (or in conjunction with the league & the network(s) at the top level). Nobody in St. L would typically have input into that at all.

[panerd]

That isn't up to anyone in St.Louis. Those games are dictated by the league (or in conjunction with the league & the network(s) at the top level). Nobody in St. L would typically have input into that at all.

Even in the late 80's?

And what an even bigger fuck you from the league if they force feed us this product that they allowed to move away.

[MizzouRah]

No move Govenor's Cup.

Time to bring in a MLS team to fill that dome.

I would LOVE an MLS team!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Even in the late 80's?

And what an even bigger fuck you from the league if they force feed us this product that they allowed to move away.

That's always been true afaik. The least input of anyone on anything is nearly always the local affiliate.

I've known of a few cases (across more than one sport) where stations virtually begged for relief from the various rules to no avail.

[stevew]

The LA Rams are confirmed apparently, and the Chargers have the go-ahead to move as well. The NFL should take a portion of the relocation fees(possibly 500m+ from each) and then use that money to placate the Raiders into staying in the bay area/getting a new stadium in STL.

[BillJasper]

Sucks for St. Louis.

It is weird having the LA Rams again. Especially considering attendance was a big issue last time. Funny, I'm sitting here watching an LA Express game on YouTube and there's like 8,000 people there.

[JPhillips]

The LA Rams are confirmed apparently, and the Chargers have the go-ahead to move as well. The NFL should take a portion of the relocation fees(possibly 500m+ from each) and then use that money to placate the Raiders into staying in the bay area/getting a new stadium in STL.

And if I'm in StL or SD I turn around and sue the NFL for refusing to do the same for those teams.

[bhlloy]

The real question here is how the fuck Mark Davis can have that much money and hair that looks like that

[bhlloy]

And if I'm in StL or SD I turn around and sue the NFL for refusing to do the same for those teams.

How would there be a relocation fee if no team relocates?

[cuervo72]

The real question here is how the fuck Mark Davis can have that much money and hair that looks like that

I saw a story about him where they covered it. Basically, he's stubborn.

[BillJasper]

The real question here is how the fuck Mark Davis can have that much money and hair that looks like that

+1

[JPhillips]

How would there be a relocation fee if no team relocates?

I'm saying if the NFL gives the Raiders stadium money to stay in Oakland, StL and SD should sue. Of course if OAK doesn't get money and can't move they'll sue, they may sue regardless. I'd expect this will be in the courts for quite a while.

[MrBug708]

I think it was categorized as a loan

[ISiddiqui]

Time to bring in a MLS team to fill that dome.

I would LOVE an MLS team!

Probably a better discussion for the Soccer Thread, but the chances for an MLS team in St. Louis in the next round of expansion just dropped significantly. St. Louis's chances were tied together with the new Rams Stadium (kind of like how Atlanta sold its new stadium on being an NFL and MLS stadium). They likely won't give it to St. Louis if they present the Dome as the team's home - at least not without significant renovations to it to make it more soccer ready.

[MizzouRah]

Probably a better discussion for the Soccer Thread, but the chances for an MLS team in St. Louis in the next round of expansion just dropped significantly. St. Louis's chances were tied together with the new Rams Stadium (kind of like how Atlanta sold its new stadium on being an NFL and MLS stadium). They likely won't give it to St. Louis if they present the Dome as the team's home - at least not without significant renovations to it to make it more soccer ready.

I'm in the camp of building a new stadium for an MLS team. :)

That probably won't fly here.. but it's a nice dream of mine.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm in the camp of building a new stadium for an MLS team. :)

That probably won't fly here.. but it's a nice dream of mine.

The soccer-specific stadiums are a MUCH better experience. The new stadium here in KC is as good as some of the stadiums in Europe. You don't realize what you're missing until you go to a modern stadium that's built for soccer.

[ISiddiqui]

Well that depends... I'm sure Sounders fans aren't bemoaning any lack of 'experience' ;).

I guess one can retrofit the Dome as Vancouver did to theirs, but once again, the big stumbling block to an MLS team in St. Louis is a deep pocketed owner who wants to make an MLS team a reality.

[Warhammer]

Sucks for St. Louis.

It is weird having the LA Rams again. Especially considering attendance was a big issue last time. Funny, I'm sitting here watching an LA Express game on YouTube and there's like 8,000 people there.

It wasn't until the end that attendance became a huge issue last time. Through '89 at least, they were getting plenty of fans. In '90, I think they drew but they were bad. I do not remember how they fared from '91-'93 though.

[panerd]

Well that depends... I'm sure Sounders fans aren't bemoaning any lack of 'experience' ;).

I guess one can retrofit the Dome as Vancouver did to theirs, but once again, the big stumbling block to an MLS team in St. Louis is a deep pocketed owner who wants to make an MLS team a reality.

I think I remember hearing somewhere that the guys from World Wide Technology were interested in owning a team. Not sure if that is a known name outside of St. Louis but they are involved in a lot of the soccer stuff in St. Louis including a women's team and all the youth stuff.

[Logan]

Hue Jackson to the Browns. If he was about to fly to NY to interview for the Giants job, I assume that was a pretty monster offer.

I would've gotten on the plane.

[JPhillips]

Hue Jackson to the Browns. If he was about to fly to NY to interview for the Giants job, I assume that was a pretty monster offer.

I would've gotten on the plane.

As I've said before, you generally take the job you're offered, but if he fails in Cleveland he might be done as a HC candidate. That's a lot to risk on a franchise as f'ed up as Cleveland.

[albionmoonlight]

I know this is the 10,000th reinvention of the Browns. But this one seems like a really good one. Got a respected analytics guy for the front office. Get the #1 coaching candidate out there (or at least one of the very top guys). And have the #2 overall pick.

I mean, feel free to re-post this in five years when they are 1-15 and starting over again. But they seem to be nailing this offseason.

[JPhillips]

My concern is how do the analytics guy, the coach, the unhired GM and the owner work together? I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the GM wasn't the last one hired. If they don't have clearly delineated and accepted roles, the whole thing will collapse.

[BillJasper]

It seems to me that in baseball, the front office has much more control over what happens on the field. It'll be interesting if Depodesta can make that transition to a situation where the on-the-field coach has a much bigger influence on wins and losses. It's also interesting that they'd hire Jackson who got ousted in Oakland after a failed power play.

[korme]

I know this is the 10,000th reinvention of the Browns. But this one seems like a really good one. Got a respected analytics guy for the front office. Get the #1 coaching candidate out there (or at least one of the very top guys). And have the #2 overall pick.

I mean, feel free to re-post this in two years when they are 1-15 and starting over again. But they seem to be nailing this offseason.

fixed it for you

[panerd]

Yeah I mean I don't want to bag on a guy that I really liked with the Bengals but he had some amazing talent on that roster. His gameplan at times though was confusing and his alternate alignments never seemed to fool anyone. I also don't envy his two head coaching opportunities being with Oakland and Cleveland. I will say that New York may be just as bad if not worse for the crowd that thinks that Giants job was worth anything. That crappy roster and savage media is probably up there with the Raiders and Browns for terrible jobs.

[Julio Riddols]

Hue did a hell of a job in Oakland with just a bunch of random dudes and Jason Campbell. I think he can make the Browns offense work. The real question, I think, is who will be making the personnel decisions. If it is the guy that drafted Manziel, then things probably ain't gonna work out too good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hue did a hell of a job in Oakland with just a bunch of random dudes and Jason Campbell. I think he can make the Browns offense work. The real question, I think, is who will be making the personnel decisions. If it is the guy that drafted Manziel, then things probably ain't gonna work out too good.

ESPN now reporting that Jackson will cut ties with Manziel as part of taking the job.

[stevew]

Hue did a hell of a job in Oakland with just a bunch of random dudes and Jason Campbell. I think he can make the Browns offense work. The real question, I think, is who will be making the personnel decisions. If it is the guy that drafted Manziel, then things probably ain't gonna work out too good.

Hopefully it's not the guy that traded 2 conditional first round picks for Carson Palmer either.

[tarcone]

What happens when the Rams continue to suck and the fans quit going to games? Are the Rams going to move again?

[BillJasper]

ESPN now reporting that Jackson will cut ties with Manziel as part of taking the job.

How many first round picks have the Browns spent on the QB position since they returned in '99? :eek:

[JonInMiddleGA]

How many first round picks have the Browns spent on the QB position since they returned in '99? :eek:

You just knew that would make me curious enough to look it up, didn't you?

2014 1/22 Manziel
2012 1/22 Weeden
2007 1/22 Quinn
1999 1/1 Couch

Also:
2010 3/85 McCoy
2005 3/67 Frye
2004 4/106 L. McCown
2000 6/183 Spurgeon Wynn

And honorable mention for
1995 3/84 Zeier

[lungs]

What happens when the Rams continue to suck and the fans quit going to games? Are the Rams going to move again?

Yes, to Iowa.

[albionmoonlight]

2000 6/183 Spurgeon Wynn

In that same draft:

6/199 Tom Brady

[stevew]

http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/InfamousBrownsJersey.jpgHow many first round picks have the Browns spent on the QB position since they returned in '99? :eek:

[JPhillips]

Hopefully it's not the guy that traded 2 conditional first round picks for Carson Palmer either.

No, I like that guy. AJ McCarron would look great in a Browns jersey!

[MizzouRah]

The soccer-specific stadiums are a MUCH better experience. The new stadium here in KC is as good as some of the stadiums in Europe. You don't realize what you're missing until you go to a modern stadium that's built for soccer.

I've been to a Sporting KC game and loved it!

[stevew]

Sometimes guys really screw up at their first stop and become good head coaches later. I wonder if Hue Jackson will be like Belichick or Carroll or if he'll be just another Jim Caldwell/Mangini type.

[sabotai]

Rumor mill is saying that McAdoo is close to finalizing a deal to be the Giants HC.

[stevew]

did the Giants break the Rooney rule?

The Giants are intrigued with McAdoo’s potential but wanted to get a cross-section of the available candidates with head-coaching experience. McAdoo was their first interview, but they also met with three others with more experience: their own defensive coordinator, Steve Spagnuolo, former Bills head coach Doug Marrone and former Falcons head coach Mike Smith. None of those candidates wowed the Giants, and they doubled back and kept the hiring in-house

[JPhillips]

I'd imagine a scheduled interview with Hue Jackson covers the Rooney rule.

[Logan]

Schefter reporting the Niners are deciding between Chip Kelly and Mike Shanahan, with a decision coming over next 24 hours.

I can't imagine how you can narrow down any list of potential candidates and land on those exact two as your finalists. Like deciding if you should live in New York City or Sheboygan.

[Julio Riddols]

Based on what Palmer is doing now, I think the trade would have worked out if they stuck with Hue.

[RedKingGold]

CHIP!

[BillJasper]

CHIP!

Doesn't make any sense. Kelly may say he doesn't want to be GM, but he sure ran the last one he worked for out of the stadium. Can't see him and Baalke getting along.