Super Bowl 50 Thread

[stevew]

Is this the worst super bowl ever?

[rowech]

Why would Newton not dive on that ball? I mean it's suspicious to see that.

[AlexB]

that looked like a forward pass

Definite fumble

[Edward64]

Cam is going to regret not jumping in for a long, long time.

[JPhillips]

Superman should have tried harder to get to the ball.

[Travis]

Hell of a business decision there Newton. Wow.

[frnk55]

Goodnight!!!!

[cuervo72]

Is this the worst super bowl ever?

No, see my comment about SB V. :)

[kingfc22]

Cam now knows! :)

He doesn't know what it feels like to dive into a pile for a loose ball though. #NotSoSuperman

[Edward64]

Woo hoo. There's Peyton's touchdown drive.

[stevew]

Why would Newton not dive on that ball? I mean it's suspicious to see that.

Did he think it was 4th down?

[TroyF]

So Troy, you enjoy this style D a lot more when it's your team playing it? I seem to recall some very different descriptors when you talked about Seattle playing a very similar style ;)

That said, wow has this turned into Ealy vs Von. Loving watching these D's play. I was very curious how Cam would perform on this stage/against this level of D and had he been more accurate early on, I'd imagine there'd be a much different game going on at this point. Also quite curious why Carolina hasn't tried to move to a quicker passing game, seems like they're either being too stubborn or don't think they can execute that style.


I did hate the Seahawks. Most of it was to my dislike of their head coach and Richard Sherman.

On this defense, I like Wade Phillips, but I really despise Talib at this point.

As for the styles, I like the Denver style more. It isn't 3 deep zone. It's man to man.

I'll cede to your point though. You got me. :)

[cthomer5000]

Im willing to entertain "worst super bowl ever?" discussions.

[cuervo72]

Oh yeah - nice call, Quik.

[CrimsonFox]

I love how all of denver's running yardage is due to the entire team pushing Anderson forward.
:)

[JAG]

Need Flere to make a cartoon with P and E after this one.

[frnk55]

Im willing to entertain "worst super bowl ever?" discussions.
Well it was the worst Halftime show ever :)

[stevew]

Doesn't manning have a 1-2m bonus for winning here?

[stevew]

No, see my comment about SB V. :)

I was negative 5 years old.

[Travis]

I did hate the Seahawks. Most of it was to my dislike of their head coach and Richard Sherman.

On this defense, I like Wade Phillips, but I really despise Talib at this point.

As for the styles, I like the Denver style more. It isn't 3 deep zone. It's man to man.

I'll cede to your point though. You got me. :)

heh, small price to pay for a championship though eh ;)

Lots of fun watching this game. I had called a 24-21 Denver win in a conversation with a buddy, had you told me about the game Ealy had I would have thought I was totally wrong. Full credit to the Denver D and Anderson making some fantastic plays to lead the way. Miller is a beast.

[TroyF]

Im willing to entertain "worst super bowl ever?" discussions.


Yep. I would agree if "My" team weren't in it.

The only thing I hope is that when people talk about how horrible it was, they give the Denver defense the credit they deserve. They shut down the Panthers cold. It wasn't an accident and it wasn't Carolina sucking.

This defense is special. Very, very special.

[jbergey22]

The irony of all of the poor defenses that cost manning Super Bowl rings and now he rides the back of his defense to earn a ring in his final game.

[CrimsonFox]

why would they go for a 2 pter when they can't even score a touchdown? :(

[cartman]

So, if he retires, will Peyton be in every single Super Bowl commercial next year?

[Edward64]

Nice sack.

[MrBug708]

Cartman...run the bbcf file!

[EagleFan]

Carolina waves the white flag?

[CrimsonFox]

#camneedshisbottleintheendzone

[jbergey22]

Carolina waves the white flag?

Maybe but it was also the higher percentage play. Gaining 50-60 yards of field position vs trying to make a 4th and 24 conversion against a team that is giving Cam no time.

[AlexB]

They had to punt. Practically zero chance of getting 24 yards and it would mean guaranteed points for Denver. They're not going to win anyway but there's more chance of something happening this way

[EagleFan]

The chance of scoring twice with no timeouts, less than a minute to go and starting from most likely inside or around your own 20 can;t be much better.

[MrBug708]

Congrats to Peyton. What a career and legacy

[JonInMiddleGA]

Field has been shit for two years now at Levi's. Nothing new here

But this is all new turf, specially grown & installed specifically for this purpose.


The secrets behind the grass for Super Bowl 50 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14621629/the-secrets-grass-super-bowl-50)

[JonInMiddleGA]

#camneedshisbottleintheendzone

That was one of the signature moments of the night.

[AlexB]

The chance of scoring twice with no timeouts, less than a minute to go and starting from most likely inside or around your own 20 can;t be much better.

Not much, but definitely better than trying to get three scores in 2 minutes

[JPhillips]

What the hell set off the Denver punter?

[cthomer5000]

How many Tecmo Super Bowl players have won Super Bowls as coaches?

[Radii]

Grats Denver. Carolina was supposed to win this by forcing turnovers, not the other way around.

[EagleFan]

Congrats Broncos fans!

[Edward64]

Nice way to end it with another 15 yard penalty.

[Abe Sargent]

I swear we're going to hand teh MVP to Manning for no reason whatsoever other than its a "good story"ANd I will turn my TV off :)

[SirFozzie]

Congrats to the Broncos. As I said, if it wasn't us, I was hoping it was them.

[MrBug708]

How anti-climactic if he waits a couple weeks and then retires

[Radii]

Gettleman has been a really great GM so far, and Cam and Kuechly are locked up for a long time. There is money available to sign Norman if they want. There's never a guarentee to get back to a super bowl, but there is shit to look forward to hopefully as a Carolina fan.

[TroyF]

Congrats to the Panthers. Wonderful season. You'll be back and you will get one with Newton.

Miller has to be the MVP. Simply no other choice for that. He accounted for 14 points by himself.

[JPhillips]

Drink a lot of Budweiser?

What a terrible ending to the fairy tale.

[digamma]

Ever the corporate shill. Enjoy your Budweiser, bro.

[CrimsonFox]

#pleaseput01secondontheplayclockteehee

[cartman]

On the prop side, I have:

Ted Ginn over 5.5 rushing yards
No 2 Pt. Conversion to be attempted (-175)
Color of coach's victory gatorade dumping to be YELLOW (+600)

Hope you had these hedged :)

[CrimsonFox]

Super Bowl Halftime Show Marred By Functioning Sound System - The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/article/super-bowl-halftime-show-marred-functioning-sound--52312)

[CrimsonFox]

Drink a lot of Budweiser?

What a terrible ending to the fairy tale.

shhhh he has to collect his check, bro

[Thomkal]

Congrats to Denver fans. Quite a way to go out for Manning after most were writing him off earlier this season.

[tarcone]

Im pretty happy with the win. I dont watch much pro football anymore, but have long been a Broncos fan. I was a huge John Elway fan.

Now I get to rub it in the Chiefs fans faces at work tomorrow.

[cartman]

I'm surprised he didn't mention eating Papa Johns while drinking his Budweisers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cam Newton ‘Crying Jordaned’ into oblivion after Super Bowl | SI.com (http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/02/07/panthers-broncos-super-bowl-50-meme-crying-jordan)

[digamma]

Hope you had these hedged :)

Did fine.

I mean they're props for a reason. I still like the Ginn bet in retrospect, and the Broncos had gone for two once all season. Oh well. The Broncos money line carried the day though.

[Marmel]

I see this game pretty much going like SB42. The story is almost the same other than that 1 win by Atlanta this year. The Denver defense will limit what the Panther's offense is able to do with a strong rush and hold them under 20. Can Denver get to 20 points? Well, like 42, there is a Manning under center. A late drive pushes them to 20 points and a 20-17 victory.

Nailed it for $200 in a pool, total score 31 points and Denver. Missed by 3. Next closest prediction was 41 points. *Pats self on back*

[cthomer5000]

Oh great, this ghoulish woman gets to speak first. What a fine american tradition.

[JonInMiddleGA]

SB 51 Prop Bet: number of commercials featuring Peyton

I think you gotta be looking at something like 18 for the over/under

[digamma]

Budweiser gets a twofer!!!!

[MrBug708]

What a stupid interview. We all heard what he said to the sideline reporter, he was going to take some time and think about it.

[Edward64]

WTF ... yup go ahead an cheapen your moment with a Bud. Did you really need the money?

[jbergey22]

You should buy Peyton. You make more than Von.

[cthomer5000]

Doubles down on the Bud shilling. I seriously love it!

[cartman]

He was probably contractually obligated to mention Bud anytime he was asked if he was going to retire. Smart on the part of the Bud ad team. :)

[Julio Riddols]

I thought it was a good game, but damn, Carolina just didn't even come close to adjusting to that pass rush. When you don't have elite receivers, a pass rush like that will kill you.

The Broncos are just another team in the history book that proves defense wins championships.

[JPhillips]

Peyton sounded like he was coached by Rubio's team.

[Danny]

Pretty obvious he is retiring and didn't want to make the win about that.

[Kodos]

Glad to see a class act like Peyton get to go out on top. Thanks for all the seasons you've given to NFL fans. It's been a pleasure watching you. Next stop: Hall of Fame.

[JAG]

The Broncos gained 194 yards. That's the fewest by any winning team in Super Bowl history, breaking the '00 Ravens mark by 50 yards.

EDIT: per @fbgchase

[CrimsonFox]

#annabellesfaceliftsprovidedbyteddyinamotel6

[CrimsonFox]

that does it...Peyton wins the mt rushmore of sports pitchmen. his repeated budweiser plugs put him over the top!

[cthomer5000]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;God gave me two hands, Jim. One for a frosty Budweiser™ and the other for a slice of delicious Papa Johns™ pizza.&quot;</p>&mdash; Andrew Wiebe (@andrew_wiebe) <a href="https://twitter.com/andrew_wiebe/status/696539796500541441">February 8, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Kodos]

That's hilarious!

[JPhillips]

that does it...Peyton wins the mt rushmore of sports pitchmen. his repeated budweiser plugs put him over the top!

And his handshake with the Papa John's guy as the clock expired.

[cthomer5000]

I'm someone who genuinely loves when athletes make a mockery of sports - exposing them as simply a game, or the giant chain of advertisements that they actually are. Peyton goes out as an absolute legend in that regard.

I could not have imagined one of the 2 best QBs in NFL history going out by kissing Papa John (before his wife, children, or teammates) and then endlessly shilling for Budweiser. It's incredible!

[CrimsonFox]

And his handshake with the Papa John's guy as the clock expired.

wow! stealthpitch!

great weibe quote! :)

[cartman]

It would have been even better if he sang "I'm not going to announce that now" in the Nationwide song when asked if he was going to retire.

[Surtt]

He was probably contractually obligated to mention Bud anytime he was asked if he was going to retire. Smart on the part of the Bud ad team. :)

The least he could have done is sell out to Coors, he does play in Colorado after all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I tried to explain my connection to Manning elsewhere earlier, for me it really is unlike any other football player. I was watching when this happened, I've been watching ever since. That was 21 years ago, I'm only 48 for cryin' out loud. As my son noted a little while ago, he's been an NFL star for essentially his entire life. There have been others in the leage whose entire career I witnessed, but none who ever shined so brightly for so long.

1994 Tennessee vs UCLA Peyton Manning's First Game Video 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/zzfNC54FiMU?t=55m29s)

[Galaril]

I love how all of denver's running yardage is due to the entire team pushing Anderson forward.
:)

What you never played college ball at any level:-)?

[Kodos]

Anderson did have that one long run without the aid of the o-line. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentially

Did Marshawn Lynch announce his retirement with this cryptic tweet? | For The Win (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/marshawn-lynch-announce-his-retirement-twitter-tweet-seattle-seahawks)

[Drake]

I don't know anything about the truth of this speculation, but this might explain Manning's comment.

Did Peyton Manning tip off his retirement plans by plugging Budweiser? | FOX Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/peyton-manning-retirement-budweiser-super-bowl-50-win-denver-broncos-020716)

[CrimsonFox]

Lynch isn't allowed to speak remember :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess this kind of makes it official?

Seattle Seahawks ‏@Seahawks 13m13 minutes ago
Seattle Seahawks Retweeted Shawn Lynch
#ThankYouBeastMode

[TroyF]

Peyton is done. We know this, he knows it, the Broncos know it. . . I don't think he'll have a job next year on merit. It just isn't going to happen.

I really would have liked a better interview for Cam, but I understand he's frustrated.

[Fidatelo]

So happy the Broncos won! The offense was about as bad as I expected, but the defense was better than I could have hoped. I thought Cam was pretty decent, a couple of missed throws but his receivers were total garbage. No one could get open all night.

I'm going to miss Peyton, but his time is over. Of course now we enter another period of Griese/Plummer/Cutler/Orton/Tebow/etc so that's a little sad. As long as they can keep Miller and a good chunk of this defense together for a few more years they'll at least be in the hunt.

[Galaril]

Worst offense to ever win the SB but perhaps one of the best defenses that truely won it.

[ISiddiqui]

Glad Peyton went out a SB winner! Best of all time! Even though this one was won by his amazing defense.

[TroyF]

The Broncos faced Rothlesberger, Brady and Newton in their three playoff games..

Those three QB's did this:

69/134 (51.5%)
1 TD - 3 INT - 2 fumbles
6.82 yards per pass attempt
13 sacks (1 of Denvers 7 sacks today was on Ginn)

None of the three opponents cracked 20 points despite finishing 1st, 3rd and 4th in scoring offense in the regular season. Those 3 teams averaged over 31 points in their other playoff games. They averaged under 15 points per game against the Broncos.

[Glengoyne]

That shot shows him with possession. Yay single shots!


Yeah, but part of the worst rule in the game doesn't consider possession or control of the ball. It is only concerned with contact with the ground. Yes the receiver had total control of the ball at that moment and before that moment, but at some point after that instant he lost absolute control of the ball. So even though it never touched the ground while outside of his control, it is not a catch.

It is stupid and ridiculous. Because that was a catch...just not according to the worst rule in the NFL.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Count me in as another person who thought Cotchery did not catch that ball. It looked like it touched the ground, then continued to move after.

Edit: did not catch the ball per NFL rules. I think it was a hell of a catch.

[Butter]

Worst offense to ever win the SB but perhaps one of the best defenses that truely won it.

Ah, maybe. Certainly one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make it to the Super Bowl. When Norwell went out, it certainly didn't help. Panthers kept stubbornly refusing to help those OTs with the ends. And their lack of quality at WR finally showed as well.

But Cam didn't have a very good game, thanks to that constant unrelenting pressure.

[Antmeister]

I was not wanting the Broncos to win, because, you know, they are our division rivals. With that said, that was an amazing win by that defense. This is what people predicted Arizona would do to Carolina defensively and, to be honest, I didn't think that the Broncos would be able to contain Cam through 4 quarters. So I tip my hat to the Broncos.

[Butter]

I don't know if this ranks as one of the worst Super Bowls, especially to those of us that suffered through the NFC dominating Buffalo and Denver in the early 90s. But it sure want much fun to watch with that batch of mediocre commercials and no offensive movement.

[BillJasper]

Congratulations to the Broncos.

I hope Peyton Manning is smart enough to ride off into the sunset now.

[flere-imsaho]

If Manning's not in the FOX or CBS studios next year on Sundays I'll be very, very surprised.

[MIJB#19]

Glad Peyton went out a SB winner! Best of all time! Even though this one was won by his amazing defense.There's irony in that. Peyton Manning was said to be cursed with horrible defenses for most of his career. But now on the weaker part of the team, that second ring arrives after all.

[cuervo72]

I don't know anything about the truth of this speculation, but this might explain Manning's comment.

Did Peyton Manning tip off his retirement plans by plugging Budweiser? | FOX Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/peyton-manning-retirement-budweiser-super-bowl-50-win-denver-broncos-020716)

Don't know if it is true or not, but on Czaban this morning they mentioned that Manning owns a couple of Bud distributorships.

[Easy Mac]

This was pretty much my thought. After shaking Papa's hand and mentioning bud, I told my wife that I'm shocked he didn't say he would think about retirement this offseason while he was sitting in a recliner drinking a bud and eating Papa John's while his wife sliced some deli meat so they could binge watch Kingdom on DirectTV in their Nationwide insured home.

The only thing that would have made it better is if they asked what he's going to do after the Super Bowl, and instead of saying he was going to Disney, he said he was going to the Guyer Clinic.

[JAG]

I don't get the worst super bowl ever thing. I'll take this one over one that's a total blowout and over by halftime.

[Logan]

Yeesh.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--GluZW8Iw--/tbxfqvmf0sta9cryrytc.gif

[Ben E Lou]

Yeesh.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--GluZW8Iw--/tbxfqvmf0sta9cryrytc.gifI grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

[larrymcg421]

I actually don't see the big problem on that play. I think his thought process was that the Denver player was about to bat it, so be in position to go after it whatever direction it goes. While he steps back, he doesn't leave the play, he's still looking to see where it goes and has his head down trying to find it.

Now I'm not arguing he shouldn't have dove for the ball, but I think it was more of a poor judgment call on his part than being scared to go for it.

[Neuqua]

Honestly that's how I read it too when watching the play/replays. I think he misjudged and was hoping the ball was going to pop out and he was preparing himself to fall on it.

[CraigSca]

I'm not sure what I think. Seeing it live I thought, "man, he didn't even TRY!"

[Logan]

Yeah the guy is reckless with his body on scrambles and dives/jumps at the goal line frequently. I think you can make the argument that he very consciously puts himself in potentially painful situations but there, he just had a quick instinctual moment of flight.

[cartman]

It looks like at the end of the GIF that he was in a better position to recover by not diving. If he dives, he is likely past the ball, and it looks like he at least had a chance when the ball did bounce away.

[cuervo72]

I grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

So you're saying pro fans are more rational than college fans? ;)

[Ben E Lou]

So you're saying pro fans are more rational than college fans? ;)Nope. Just War Chikkens. :devil: I'll crucify a Dawg in the NFL if he deserves it. Auburn is basically the Penn State of the South when it comes to being insular and blindly loyal.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Seriously, my social media feed looks like Auburn lost the Super Bowl last night.


Oh, and my "favorite" headline from the last few days:
AUBURNTIGERS.COM Cam Newton adds NFL MVP to his Auburn Heisman Trophy :: Auburn University Official Athletic Site Auburn University Official Athletic Site :: Football (http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020616aae.html)

Didn't realize it was an "Auburn Heisman Trophy." :rolleyes:

[cuervo72]

Heh.

[stevew]

He overran the fumble and realized his knees were going to get destroyed. That's my take on the play. He's in a horrible position to dive for the recovery because he overran it and should have dived sooner

[Ben E Lou]

In fairness, I've never had the lovely privilege of living in division-rival territory and seeing bandwagon fans popping up everywhere as they went to the Super Bowl. So between all the Auburn hype on social media and the Panther bandwagon crap thrown in my face everywhere I went (including getting--supposedly jokingly--chastised at my daughter's PRESCHOOL for not dressing her up in Panther gear on Friday,) let's just say that last night's result was a bit welcome. ;)

[Kodos]

That presser was not impressive for Cam. Haters got a lot of ammo there. It's all Superman and happiness until you get your ass kicked.

[larrymcg421]

He overran the fumble and realized his knees were going to get destroyed. That's my take on the play. He's in a horrible position to dive for the recovery because he overran it and should have dived sooner

Yeah he missed his opportunity to dive. If he dives at the beginning of that GIF, he might get the recovery. I only take issue with the "jumping back" criticism as if it means he was scared. If he was scared, he wouldn't still be in the midst of all the players with his head down searching for the ball.

[Ben E Lou]

My Auburn haterade aside, I think Magary nails it here, especially in this section:

In the lead-up to this game, he talked about his image a LOT, and defended it a lot. He’s not a fool. When he prays before lining up behind center, he knows that you know that he knows you can see him pray.

And there’s nothing wrong with that. When Cam said he wanted to be an entertainer and icon before he was drafted (and Peter King bitched him out for it), it wasn’t that big of a deal to me because, in my mind, you can be a great player AND groom your image at the same time if that’s your thing. Russell Wilson remains a great player despite accidentally and hilariously A-Rod-ing his image every other day. But if that’s a burden you want…then you better be ready for people to dump on you when you fuck it up.


Cam Fucking Blew It (http://deadspin.com/cam-fucking-blew-it-1757768173)

[bhlloy]

I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense. They had two weeks to prepare for one of the best pass rushes the game has ever seen and their plan was still "stay in base protection, run our terrible group of receivers 20 yards down the field and hope Cam stays upright long enough to maybe throw it near one of them?"

The Broncos D is obviously incredible (I see Troy lurking) but my god, that game plan was awful. Did they throw a screen or a short pass once?

[TroyF]

Ah, maybe. Certainly one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make it to the Super Bowl. When Norwell went out, it certainly didn't help. Panthers kept stubbornly refusing to help those OTs with the ends. And their lack of quality at WR finally showed as well.

But Cam didn't have a very good game, thanks to that constant unrelenting pressure.

After the Packers game: Rodgers had an off day, the offensive line has issues

After the first Patriots game: They were injured at WR and RB (offensive line is never mentioned) Nobody mentions Denver was missing 3 defensive starters in the game

After the Steelers playoff game: They didn't have Antonio Brown

After the Patriots playoff game: The Patriots offensive line sucks. How horrible is that line?

After the Panthers game: One of the worst offensive lines at tackle to ever make a Super Bowl.


Padon me while I start screaming. You know what one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make a Super Bowl is? Denver. Michael Schofield. He may not even be in the league next year. He was a turnstile in this game as well.

In the case of the Steelers, Pats and Panthers, you are talking about teams that had pretty much zero problems scoring against any other team they played. 1st, 3rd, 4th in scoring in the NFL. Carolina lit up 2 of the top 5 defenses in the league before they ran into Denver.

Those offenses were going up against a Denver offense that was one of the single worst units in the entire league in the Broncos offense. The Broncos converted 10 of 46 third downs in the playoffs.

This is one of the very best defenses to ever win a Super Bowl and they did it with the worst offense ever to go to a Super Bowl.

[Toddzilla]

Someone forgot to give Cam's dad $200,000

[ISiddiqui]

Cam definitely did blow it, but it's somewhat understandable. I mean, heck, Peyton Manning walked off the field early in his SB loss against the Saints, refusing to shake hands. Losing a SB sucks. But maybe Cam can turn around the bad press he's getting now.

[TroyF]

I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense. They had two weeks to prepare for one of the best pass rushes the game has ever seen and their plan was still "stay in base protection, run our terrible group of receivers 20 yards down the field and hope Cam stays upright long enough to maybe throw it near one of them?"

The Broncos D is obviously incredible (I see Troy lurking) but my god, that game plan was awful. Did they throw a screen or a short pass once?


Yeah, they caught the Broncos with the screen to Olsen on one play.

Taking off my Denver blinders for a second and analyzing this, what were the Panthers supposed to do?

The only thing I think they could have done differently was to try more option runs. The problem was they weren't working for most of the night. They had a few successes, but most of those runs were getting crushed. So if your dominant running game gets shut down, now what?

Remember the Patriots game? They tried to throw short all game and were suffocated until both Denver safeties left the game with injuries.

The Panthers won this year by running the ball, throwing to Olsen and then going max protect and throwing it deep. That was their gameplan. Colbert, Stewart and Whittaker averaged 1 catch a game this year. They were targeted 4 times in this game. Could they have been targeted more? Maybe. But that would have went against everything they did to get there.

I mean, I don't blame the Panthers for playing the game the way they did. They were a dominant offense playing the game the way they played it all year. They lit up Seattle and Arizona in the playoffs.

They ran into a team that was better. Period.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I grew up 30 minutes from Auburn, and now I live in Panther country. To a person, the many Auburn people on my social media feeds are defending Newton's lack of effort on the fumble and his behavior at the presser. Virtually all of the Panther fans have the good sense and partiality to criticize him for one or both.

To this point AU fans have probably still got more $$$ invested in him.

:D

[TroyF]

Cam definitely did blow it, but it's somewhat understandable. I mean, heck, Peyton Manning walked off the field early in his SB loss against the Saints, refusing to shake hands. Losing a SB sucks. But maybe Cam can turn around the bad press he's getting now.


I wish he'd handled it differently and I said that. I don't think he's a horrible person. I hope he learns from this. As said above, he isn't the first person to ever make a mistake. On the other side, this is a guy who loved to talk when things were going well. "You don't like me dancing, stop me."

He brought up race right away in the lead up to the Super Bowl. Well, you say those type of things and do those type of things, the spotlight is going to be on you Cam. Your quote can be used back on you "You don't want to deal with criticism, don't soak in every positive thing said about you for years"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wait, Troy is still trying to justify that his team is good?

Learn from the Royals. Just raise the trophy and laugh. Nothing else matters.

[ISiddiqui]

The irony is thick in that post ;)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The irony is thick in that post ;)

Even I learn things. :D

[Kodos]

Wait, Troy is still trying to justify that his team is good?

Learn from the Royals. Just raise the trophy and laugh. Nothing else matters.

I guess the Broncos didn't pee down their leg like the Chiefs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I guess the Broncos didn't pee down their leg like the Chiefs.

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.

[jbergey22]

Despite all of this "my team is better and they proved it" talk sports is still very much a numbers game. The NFL has such a small sample size we really never know for sure. For all we really know the Panthers could go out and beat the Broncos 4 straight games if they played 4 more times. Even the seemingly unbeatable Golden State Warriors managed to lose a game to the Pistons by 20 points within the past month. The Broncos were the better team last night, they deserved to win the championship, and they do have an historically impressive defense.

The reason I bring this up has little to do with the game last night. Id speculate if they played 10 times it would end up around 50/50. The year the 16-0 Pats lost to the Giants they were on the wrong side of the numbers game. I think the Pats would have beaten that team 8.5/9 times out of every 10.

[Kodos]

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.

Would love to see the Broncos piss down their leg tonight and enter next week with the possibility that they may not even make the playoffs.

Guess you didn't get your wish.

[Radii]

I actually don't see the big problem on that play. I think his thought process was that the Denver player was about to bat it, so be in position to go after it whatever direction it goes. While he steps back, he doesn't leave the play, he's still looking to see where it goes and has his head down trying to find it.

Now I'm not arguing he shouldn't have dove for the ball, but I think it was more of a poor judgment call on his part than being scared to go for it.

I pretty much agree with all of this. The only problem I've had with any replies to that play were snarky comments about how Cam isn't willing to risk getting hurt. Cam is a fucking beast and he knows it, he'll deliver blocks on reverses/broken plays, he delivers hits as a runner instead of going out of bounds, he fights for the extra yard or two like a running back instead of sliding all the damn time. Call out his post game stuff all you want, but separate it from his actual on field play. The man isn't soft or afraid of getting into the mix.


In fairness, I've never had the lovely privilege of living in division-rival territory and seeing bandwagon fans popping up everywhere as they went to the Super Bowl. So between all the Auburn hype on social media and the Panther bandwagon crap thrown in my face everywhere I went (including getting--supposedly jokingly--chastised at my daughter's PRESCHOOL for not dressing her up in Panther gear on Friday,) let's just say that last night's result was a bit welcome. ;)


Haha man you have every right to enjoy this in your current situation, but holy shit Facebook I don't need to see every damn thing that my facebook friends like or comment on on days like these ;)


I think the focus on Newton and the post game is missing the fact that the Panthers called a really shitty game on offense.

I'm really not sure what they could have done differently. Cam clearly had problems with his nerves at least early, and even on plays where he wasn't pressured, he was forcing it, he overthrew too many open guys, and guys dropped too many passes they would normally catch. If they make half the plays they usually make its a different game. Denver D gets credit for rattling Cam, but there were more than enough open receivers and if they make half the plays they normally make, Carolina has a few more drives that get extended, they get into field goal range a couple more times, and its a different game.


My Auburn haterade aside, I think Magary nails it here

Yep, I'm disappointed. The early overthrows felt like a Cam from 1-2 years ago that we all thought was gone by now. Some of the emotional stuff at the end of the game and postgame felt like a Cam that we thought was gone 3 years ago. People who don't watch Carolina b/c they weren't in the national spotlight until the second half of the year haven't seen how much Cam seemed to have matured in this regard, that all the shit about him sulking was a thing from 2012, not 2015. Carolina has lost games, and lost playoff games with Cam, without any of that coming back up.

I've seen Cam mature enough to not be really worried about it. He's not RG3, he is a very smart guy and has pretty good self awareness and he'll learn from this. But I'm still disappointed it happened.

[TroyF]

Despite all of this "my team is better and they proved it" talk sports is still very much a numbers game. The NFL has such a small sample size we really never know for sure. For all we really know the Panthers could go out and beat the Broncos 4 straight games if they played 4 more times. Even the seemingly unbeatable Golden State Warriors managed to lose a game to the Pistons by 20 points within the past month. The Broncos were the better team last night, they deserved to win the championship, and they do have an historically impressive defense.

The reason I bring this up has little to do with the game last night. Id speculate if they played 10 times it would end up around 50/50. The year the 16-0 Pats lost to the Giants they were on the wrong side of the numbers game. I think the Pats would have beaten that team 8.5/9 times out of every 10.


Everything you said is correct. I especially agree with the last paragraph. The difference is, heading into the playoffs and heading into this game, that is NOT what people felt. I think most people thought that the Panthers would win 8 of the 10 games. The point spread showed it and the experts picks showed it.

Lets say Trevathan doesn't get back and the Panthers recover the fumble after the INT. Panthers ball, 1st and goal at the 7, down 9 points. When you have a horrific offense, you certain things to happen to win a football game. The two Manning turnovers (1 of which took probable points off the board) would have been killer had Denver not forced the 4 turnovers. The punt return? That's luck. Sorry, it's pure, 100% luck. Play that game tomorrow, it doesn't happen.

My point all year has been how special this defense is. Them capping it off with a win should cement that. Denver is not the most dominant team in the world. They aren't on their way to a dynasty (without massive offensive improvement). But they have been much better than people think all year. Now people can see that. i think if you ask people to predict the game tomorrow, it will be closer to 50/50 than the 85% that it was.

[TroyF]

I'm not sure 12 straight wins is peeing down your leg, but the Broncos definitely did better.


I haven't said a lot about the Chiefs this year. They played well and I feel badly that their D was hurt, because I think they had a real shot against the Patriots.

Their winning streak had a little bit of fortune, but that was a damned good football team.

My favorite quote from you was how the Denver defense built itself up in the first half of the season and really wasn't elite. That was quite the call.

As for me talking, I'll do what I want, but thanks for the advice. You do a very good job of following your own advice PS vs XBOX debates.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, count me among those that completely forgot Peyton has part-ownership of a pair of Anheuser-Busch distributorships.

Bud didn't have to pay him for those mentions, he was basically paying himself.

[jbergey22]

I haven't said a lot about the Chiefs this year. They played well and I feel badly that their D was hurt, because I think they had a real shot against the Patriots.

Their winning streak had a little bit of fortune, but that was a damned good football team.

My favorite quote from you was how the Denver defense built itself up in the first half of the season and really wasn't elite. That was quite the call.

As for me talking, I'll do what I want, but thanks for the advice. You do a very good job of following your own advice PS vs XBOX debates.

If there is one thing I know about MBBF is many of his statements have blinders attached, are twisted in some miraculous way to defend his logic, or backed with no research. His homer ways would be much more tolerable if it actually seemed like he paid attention to the other teams or cultures around him. He found a way to actually get me to not want the Royals to win the World Series this year despite the fact that Ive always had a soft spot for the Royals(being long time losers).

[Butter]

After the Packers game: Rodgers had an off day, the offensive line has issues

After the first Patriots game: They were injured at WR and RB (offensive line is never mentioned) Nobody mentions Denver was missing 3 defensive starters in the game

After the Steelers playoff game: They didn't have Antonio Brown

After the Patriots playoff game: The Patriots offensive line sucks. How horrible is that line?

After the Panthers game: One of the worst offensive lines at tackle to ever make a Super Bowl.


Padon me while I start screaming. You know what one of the worst offensive lines at tackle to make a Super Bowl is? Denver. Michael Schofield. He may not even be in the league next year. He was a turnstile in this game as well.

In the case of the Steelers, Pats and Panthers, you are talking about teams that had pretty much zero problems scoring against any other team they played. 1st, 3rd, 4th in scoring in the NFL. Carolina lit up 2 of the top 5 defenses in the league before they ran into Denver.

Those offenses were going up against a Denver offense that was one of the single worst units in the entire league in the Broncos offense. The Broncos converted 10 of 46 third downs in the playoffs.

This is one of the very best defenses to ever win a Super Bowl and they did it with the worst offense ever to go to a Super Bowl.

Why can't your first few sentences be true AND it also be true that Denver's defense was very good?

The fact is, Denver benefited from an AFC that was chock full of teams that had fatal flaws. The New England team that you state was lighting everyone up scored 10 points in Week 17 at Miami fighting for home field. The Steelers team that was lighting everyone up scored 18 points at Cincinnati WITH Antonio Brown, then 16 at Denver without him.

I'm sure as a fan you don't like things to be minimized, but Denver's defense absolutely won that game for them and they deserved to win. But it's also true that Carolina had over 300 yards on offense and really couldn't get out of their own way. It felt somehow like a dominant performance on defense for Denver, but at the same time a choke job by Cam and that offense.

[wustin]

They did a good job shutting down Olsen. He's been Cam's panic button all season long.

[TroyF]

Why can't your first few sentences be true AND it also be true that Denver's defense was very good?

The fact is, Denver benefited from an AFC that was chock full of teams that had fatal flaws. The New England team that you state was lighting everyone up scored 10 points in Week 17 at Miami fighting for home field. The Steelers team that was lighting everyone up scored 18 points at Cincinnati WITH Antonio Brown, then 16 at Denver without him.

I'm sure as a fan you don't like things to be minimized, but Denver's defense absolutely won that game for them and they deserved to win. But it's also true that Carolina had over 300 yards on offense and really couldn't get out of their own way. It felt somehow like a dominant performance on defense for Denver, but at the same time a choke job by Cam and that offense.

NE gave the Dolphins that game. Their game plan of running the ball the entire first half didn't work.

Again, if everyone realized how good the Denver defense was and how many flaws everyone else had, why did everyone pick them to lose? Why were they 6.5 point underdogs In the Super Bowl and 3.5 point underdogs against the those "horrible" Patriots on their home field?

Simple. And again, it's always the excuses of "the other team choked" They held three terrific QB's to a 51% completion percentage in the playoffs. That isn't an accident.

As for the total yards. . . it goes back to what I've been saying ALL YEAR. It goes to the amount of plays the other teams get. Carolina ran 75 plays to Denver's 56. Carolina averaged 4.2 yards per play in this game and turned the ball over 4 times. You really want to use total yardage as why the Broncos defense wasn't that good and Carolina choked?

I use total yardage a lot in analysis. One team gains 350 yards and the other gains 220, most of the time we know who is going to win.

That's the amazing thing about this defense and why I've been so defensive of it. All year. From the first game where Baltimore had a chance to win the game to the Super Bowl when it was a 6 point game in the Super Bowl, the Denver defense has shut teams down and closed out games. And all year, after each game I suddenly hear how the other team had some huge flaw which Denver exploited. Isn't it kind of amazing the Broncos seem to be able to find the flaw in every freaking team? They beat the Patriots with a 3 man rush most of the game, they beat the Panthers and blitzed over 50% of the time.

Carolina didn't choke. They were outplayed by a better defense. Line them up again tomorrow and Carolina might win it. But I think it's obvious they wouldn't win it by blowing the Broncos out with Newton running through the helpless Broncos defense. That garbage ended yesterday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Carolina didn't choke. They were outplayed by a better defense.

The two things aren't entirely automatically mutually exclusive afaic.

6 rushing attempts yesterday by Newton, averaging over 7 ypc. That's his fewest of this postseason, less than all but four of their games all season (3 of which were relative blowouts). While scheme may have taken some of that away, I felt throughout the game that he simply wasn't looking to run as much as possible ... and that might very well have been their best chance since nothing else was working particularly well.

How much of that was by their own design, how much of that was his mental outlook {shrug} I can't say. But for as strong a performance as the Denver defense had, I don't think he looked like himself from the get-go & that the stage might have gotten to ol' Superman a bit.

[jbergey22]

Again, if everyone realized how good the Denver defense was and how many flaws everyone else had, why did everyone pick them to lose? Why were they 6.5 point underdogs In the Super Bowl and 3.5 point underdogs against the those "horrible" Patriots on their home field?



Not true. Appx 60 percent of the money line action was on Denver and appx 40 percent of the spread action was on Denver.

We already discussed this after the Pats game. Because a lot of people on the FOF forum and the ESPN guys pick a certain way doesnt mean everyone thinks that way.

[Carman Bulldog]

As far as great defences go, in my opinion I don't see Denver's as being on the same level as team's such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2013 Seahawks. And while I never personally watched the 70's Steelers or the 85 Bears live, I'm guessing most wouldn't put them on that level either. If you want to put them on the next level below those teams, that's fine.

TroyF seems to tout their playoff play, but let's be realistic. The Steelers were an offensive based team without their best offensive player (and runner up for NFL Offensive Player of the Year), without their top two running backs on the depth chart and with a quarterback who had an injured arm negating his ability to thrown down field. New England was another team without any running attack and the difference in that game essentially came down to the New England kicker missing an extra point.

As for the Super Bowl, I think the Panthers offensive woes had as much to do with their inability to execute as it did with Denver's defence. And that's not trying to take away anything from Denver, who as always did a great job getting pressure on the quarterback. But even when he had time, Newton had some very poorly thrown balls and the Panthers receivers also had a number of bad drops (Cotchery had 44 regular season catches without a drop and then had 3 drops in the Super Bowl). Ultimately, Carolina didn't look ready for prime time and the game seemed like one of those situations where an up and coming team needs to learn how to lose before it learns how to win.

As for Manning, he definitely needs to hang them up. He clearly hasn't been the same player since the NFL instituted HGH testing (if you don't believe me, just check the split stats from immediately before and after testing was implemented). Not to derail this either, but it was interesting this week that it came out that Charlie Sly was contacted by Al Jazeera in early December and did not respond. Then on December 22nd, a couple of hired goons by Manning tracked down Sly at his parent's house and the following morning, Sly issued a statement recanting all of his claims. Those guys must have been fairly persuasive.

[Carman Bulldog]

DOLA, before I have to hear again how no one was picking Denver before the playoffs... If you would have asked me before the start of the playoffs if I thought Denver would win, the answer would have been no. Their offence is awful and I wouldn't have thought their defence was great enough to get past that.

With that said, before each game, I picked Denver to win all three of their games. More than a great defence, they just seemed like a team where everything came together for them. It really started with that Steeler comeback (I think the Chiefs would have been a bad matchup for Denver in the event that Cincy would have been able to hang on) which left the Steelers beat up to the point of not being able to put up a challenge. It also included breaks such as the Gostkowski missed extra point and the field goal miss by Gano and strange plays like that punt return last night. The ball also seemed to be bouncing their way (fumbles are historically a 50/50 proposition and they recovered 5 of 7 in the Super Bowl) and it seemed like most of the close officiating calls were also going their way. Their defence really had nothing to do with any of that.

If you were to replay the playoffs starting again from scratch, I definitely would not put them as the favourite and I think that eight other teams would have at minimum an equal shot of winning.

[revrew]

As far as great defences go, in my opinion I don't see Denver's as being on the same level as team's such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2013 Seahawks. And while I never personally watched the 70's Steelers or the 85 Bears live, I'm guessing most wouldn't put them on that level either. If you want to put them on the next level below those teams, that's fine.

Interesting discussion. I would suggest that for one game, Denver played like any of those teams. I would suggest Denver has talent on par with most of those teams. Denver was the #1 D (without much help from their offense all year) and held the #1 Offense to 10 points in the SB. That's an achievement worthy of being an all-time great.

But I'll agree that the Denver D is below the 2000 Ravens and '85 Bears.

First of all, I DID watch the 85 Bears. And when you look at how dominating they were throughout the playoffs, I sincerely doubt we'll ever see another defense that good.

Seahawks were something else, too. I'd put the Broncos right there with 'em.

[RainMaker]

Did anyone else feel like CBS did a horrible job with their coverage? Felt like they never talked about injuries or anything impacting the game? I feel like if this was NBC Colinsworth would have been talking about the impact of losing Philly Brown to the passing game. Stewart's lack of explosiveness after the injury. How Denver's offense couldn't do anything after that first drive.

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

[Buccaneer]

First of all, I DID watch the 85 Bears. And when you look at how dominating they were throughout the playoffs, I sincerely doubt we'll ever see another defense that good.

This +100.

It was the only time in my life that you watched the defensive side of the ball pre-snap because they so much controlled the line of scrimmage, you always want to see how many yards the defense would 'gain' on the play.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

I'd call that "know thy audience".

The game IS an afterthought (or just a sideshow) to a very large number of viewers. Remember, more people watched the halftime show last year than watched the game.

[TroyF]

The Broncos are one of the greatest defenses of all time. I don't think they'll ever get the credit for it, but that isn't my call. They had to deal with something none of those other defenses had to deal with. . . the Broncos offense.

2015 Broncos offense: 19th in scoring, 16th in yards, 3rd most turnovers, 30th in where the defense started each drive, 25th in average plays per drive on offense

2000 Ravens offense: 14th in scoring, 16th in yards, 9th fewest turnovers, 2nd in where the defense started each drive, 8th in average plays per drive on offense

The 85' Bears had a dominant offense in '85 in addition to that defense. It put teams behind quick in most games. It kept their defense rested and allowed them to simply turn it loose in most of their second halves.

The Bears played full halves with 20 point leads. Their offense rarely put them in a horrible spot and didn't do it a single time in the playoffs.

Please note, I'm NOT bashing the '85 Chicago Bears. It's the best defense I have ever seen and I would take them over the 2015 Broncos. But I would put the Broncos in the discussion. What they had to deal with this year by how horribly this offense played was a disgrace.

Whoever said they wouldn't make the Broncos favorites if the playoffs started again. . .I agree. I didn't make em favorites this time. The offense was TERRIBLE. I posted it in this thread. Tell me ONE thing they did well this year or in this playoffs?

Rushing - Horrible, Passing - Horrible, 3rd downs - Horrible, Short Yardage - Horrible.

Look, the best you can say about that team is they "only" turned the ball over 3 times in 3 games. 3rd down and 9, 5 minutes left in a 6 point game and the Broncos felt it was a much better option to punt the ball to the league MVP. I'm sorry, the Bears never had to deal with that kind of sustained pressure. Denver had to make calls like that virtually every game.

The funniest thing I saw about this Broncos season was a quick gif of a car sliding and almost going over the side of the road. It said something along the lines of "Haters gonna. . . oh crap, oh no, oh my god. . . HATE (as the car ends up back on four wheels and takes off)

I'll let it go at this point because I'm never going to convince anyone who isn't convinced anyway. I'll just say one last time. . . this defense was special. nothing they did this year surprised me. Nothing. They'll be good again next year, but they won't be anything like this. This was a series of events that come once in a teams existence. It won't happen again.

[PadresFan104]

Did anyone else feel like CBS did a horrible job with their coverage? Felt like they never talked about injuries or anything impacting the game? I feel like if this was NBC Colinsworth would have been talking about the impact of losing Philly Brown to the passing game. Stewart's lack of explosiveness after the injury. How Denver's offense couldn't do anything after that first drive.

Instead they just wanted to tell stories and treated the game as an afterthought.

Yep, felt exactly the same way. It was a poor broadcast.

[ColtCrazy]

As far as great defences go, in my opinion I don't see Denver's as being on the same level as team's such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2013 Seahawks. And while I never personally watched the 70's Steelers or the 85 Bears live, I'm guessing most wouldn't put them on that level either. If you want to put them on the next level below those teams, that's fine.

TroyF seems to tout their playoff play, but let's be realistic. The Steelers were an offensive based team without their best offensive player (and runner up for NFL Offensive Player of the Year), without their top two running backs on the depth chart and with a quarterback who had an injured arm negating his ability to thrown down field. New England was another team without any running attack and the difference in that game essentially came down to the New England kicker missing an extra point.

As for the Super Bowl, I think the Panthers offensive woes had as much to do with their inability to execute as it did with Denver's defence. And that's not trying to take away anything from Denver, who as always did a great job getting pressure on the quarterback. But even when he had time, Newton had some very poorly thrown balls and the Panthers receivers also had a number of bad drops (Cotchery had 44 regular season catches without a drop and then had 3 drops in the Super Bowl). Ultimately, Carolina didn't look ready for prime time and the game seemed like one of those situations where an up and coming team needs to learn how to lose before it learns how to win.

As for Manning, he definitely needs to hang them up. He clearly hasn't been the same player since the NFL instituted HGH testing (if you don't believe me, just check the split stats from immediately before and after testing was implemented). Not to derail this either, but it was interesting this week that it came out that Charlie Sly was contacted by Al Jazeera in early December and did not respond. Then on December 22nd, a couple of hired goons by Manning tracked down Sly at his parent's house and the following morning, Sly issued a statement recanting all of his claims. Those guys must have been fairly persuasive.

HGH testing started in October of 2014. Manning's stats from that point till he injured his quad on Dec 14: 26 TDs 8 INTs 2400 yds. Don't see the HGH testing impacting him as much as the injury nearly two months later.

[CraigSca]

Conan Channels Cam Newton During Post-Joke Press Conference (http://deadspin.com/conan-channels-cam-newton-during-post-joke-press-confer-1758020144)

[BillJasper]

I'll let it go at this point because I'm never going to convince anyone who isn't convinced anyway. I'll just say one last time. . . this defense was special. nothing they did this year surprised me. Nothing. They'll be good again next year, but they won't be anything like this. This was a series of events that come once in a teams existence. It won't happen again.

Like Joe Flacco a few years ago, the Denver defense got Super Hot at exactly the right time.

[Scoobz0202]

So Cam says he didn't dive on that fumble for fear of injury?

I don't think that's the statement you make regarding the biggest game of you and your franchises history.

[Arles]

Cam is doubling down on being a punk!

The newly crowned league MVP walked out on reporters Sunday after answering only a handful of questions, mostly with short, soft-spoken answers.

"Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser," he said.

He said if he offended anyone, "that's cool," and that he would not change his persona to appease anyone.

Newton also defended himself for not diving to try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter that eventually was recovered by the Broncos. Denver went on to score a touchdown to put the game out of reach.

He said that he would have risked injury by diving as it would have meant he would have had to twist his leg in an awkward direction.

Newton said that if he had thrown an interception and not tried to make the tackle to avoid an injury he likely would have not heard any complaints.

[Vince, Pt. II]

It's amazing how quickly he both attained and then lost "face of the league" status.

[Arles]

Who knew Cam would be become this guy:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3BkIh1R5utY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's amazing how quickly he both attained and then lost "face of the league" status.

Oh I think he IS a fair consideration for "face of the league" ... he's a poster child for much of what's wrong with it.

[Kodos]

If This Is It | The Players' Tribune (http://www.theplayerstribune.com/russell-wilson-peyton-manning-superbowl/)

[Eaglesfan27]

If This Is It | The Players' Tribune (http://www.theplayerstribune.com/russell-wilson-peyton-manning-superbowl/)

Awesome.

[TroyF]

It's amazing how quickly he both attained and then lost "face of the league" status.


Seriously, I like the guy and I'm appalled by this. I guess he should have kept his mouth shut. I didn't say anything about it at the time and was not critical of him for not diving. I figured he had his reasons and that "I didn't want to get hurt" would be about the 2,000,000 thing listed. (the guy is a tough dude)

But this? Please Cam, explain to Thomas Davis that you didn't want to get hurt so you bailed. The Denver defenders made a lot of statements after the game I didn't like. "Cam plays for himself, we play for our team" is one of the examples. Well, Cam seems hell bent on proving them correct.

it's hard to justify he' s a young guy comment when Funchis (sp?) is a 21 year old kid who stood up for Cam, gave the Broncos defense credit and answered every question thrown at him. I don't think Cam is a horrible person or give him the hate that others do, but I was pretty sad to see how he responded to this.

[TroyF]

NFL has stated they are reviewing a suspension for Talib. I hope he gets it and I hope it's long. There is no place in the game for that, NONE.

[revrew]

NFL has stated they are reviewing a suspension for Talib. I hope he gets it and I hope it's long. There is no place in the game for that, NONE.

I'm a Bronco fan, and there are several times this season I was yelling at Kubiak to bench Talib. Not for poor play, but for behavior outside the lines and beyond the pale of football. I was surprised he wasn't ejected from the Super Bowl.

I'd really like to see the Broncos fix their cap problems by letting Talib go and sticking with Harris, Roby, Webster, and the next kid they can draft.

[Kodos]

Yeah, on the heels of the eye-poke incident, I think Talib should get at least half a season without pay.

[Radii]

Seriously, I like the guy and I'm appalled by this. I guess he should have kept his mouth shut. I didn't say anything about it at the time and was not critical of him for not diving. I figured he had his reasons and that "I didn't want to get hurt" would be about the 2,000,000 thing listed. (the guy is a tough dude)

Cam has a pretty long history of creating weird quotes because he just says everything in his head and it comes out wrong or requires additional explanation. Knowing that, plus knowing how unbelievably out of character it is would be for Cam to hold back on the field at any point in any game, I really want to believe he just tried to explain an instinctual instantaneous decision and did so poorly.

But honestly, I have no fucking clue, I've just seen the guy play and heard him talk enough that this doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I'm not about to try to defend that to people who want to dislike the guy past this post, that's for sure.

Overall, I think that Cam has matured a ton both on and off the field from the kid he was 2-3 years ago, but that he's not all the way there yet. Since he's shown the ability to grow in the recent past, I'm not terribly worried personally about any of this. I expect he'll be fine going into next season and if he does get a chance to return to championship games in the future, he'll handle things on the field better, and that's all I really care about.

[TroyF]

I'm a Bronco fan, and there are several times this season I was yelling at Kubiak to bench Talib. Not for poor play, but for behavior outside the lines and beyond the pale of football. I was surprised he wasn't ejected from the Super Bowl.

I'd really like to see the Broncos fix their cap problems by letting Talib go and sticking with Harris, Roby, Webster, and the next kid they can draft.


i agree. His cap hit is 10 million. I think 3 would go to dead money, but I can live with that. Get rid of this guy. We do not need this behavior on our roster.

[Dutch]

We do not need this behavior on our roster.

But you need that type of talent. He's a top 5 CB. That's not easy to replace. Well, maybe now that Denver has the trophy, it makes it a bit easier.

[TroyF]

But you need that type of talent. He's a top 5 CB. That's not easy to replace. Well, maybe now that Denver has the trophy, it makes it a bit easier.


While some people call me a raving lunatic and blind about "my" teams. . . that isn't the case at all. If I call out a player from another team for "pick your item," I'm going to call out any Broncos player the same way. If the Broncos offense sucks, I'm not going to try to sugarcoat it.

Well, in this case, Talib has crossed the line for me. I don't want him on this roster. I don't want to cheer for a player like that. The Broncos have Roby who has played great at CB and have Harris locked up long term. I trust Elway can draft or find other CB's that are good. Maybe not as good as Talib, but again, I don't care.

Intentionally grabbing the face mask and throwing someone to the ground? No, just no.He should have been ejected. There were people here and all over online who tried to say the refs blew that call. . . I wasn't. He deserved the call, he deserved to be kicked out of that game.

I would be saying the same things had Denver NOT won the trophy. Mistakes are one thing (drug violations or an occasional late hit or an occasional bad comment to the press) Intentionally hurting players goes into Romanowski territory. I'll gladly let other fan bases cheer for players like that.

[flere-imsaho]

When Talib was on the Patriots it always felt that what he did that was positive from a gameplay standpoint could be wiped out at any moment by the red mist descending and getting 3 personals in a row.

[cuervo72]

Hmm. Maybe FOF should have not a "red flag" but a "red mist" designation.

[TroyF]

Just a couple of random facts about the Denver defense:

They are the only team in history to face over 1000 plays and have 50 sacks and a rush defense that held teams to 3.3 yards a carry or fewer.

I looked it up for kicks: The Denver defense (playoffs and regular season combined) had 51 drives against them in the fourth quarter or OT of one score games. They gave up 15 scores and forced 13 turnovers (not counting downs there, just actual turnovers)

I looked up the '85 Bears, as close as I can tell they were in that same situation less than 10 times for the full season. That is not me saying the Broncos are better than the Bears. It is me saying this defense was under a massive amount of tight situations this year. A lot more than most of the "great" defenses that get talked about all the time.

[Travis]

Seattle fans went through comparisons like that a few years ago Troy. The tough part is the difference in rules since the Bears played, both on the field (ie: a lot less restrictions on the D back then) and off with the salary cap (or lack thereof in some comparisons). It's an interesting discussion, especially when you're trying to decide on how to compare the numbers (seemed like vs league averages for the given years was a common one) and even just trying to compare Denver this year to Seattle a couple of years ago makes me appreciate just how good both those groups were.

[TroyF]

Seattle fans went through comparisons like that a few years ago Troy. The tough part is the difference in rules since the Bears played, both on the field (ie: a lot less restrictions on the D back then) and off with the salary cap (or lack thereof in some comparisons). It's an interesting discussion, especially when you're trying to decide on how to compare the numbers (seemed like vs league averages for the given years was a common one) and even just trying to compare Denver this year to Seattle a couple of years ago makes me appreciate just how good both those groups were.


Yup, football is one of the most difficult sports for comparisons for a myriad of reasons. Different rules, different schemes and different schedules. We could go all day comparing the LOB to the 2000 Ravens to the 2002 Bucs (a very underrated defense) to the 85 Bears (who I think is the best of all time) to the Steelers to the Dolphins to the Packers.

I just posted those stats because they fascinated me, not to prove anything to anyone. I am still amazed at:

1) How lucky Denver was this year. Seriously, change one play in about 8 different games and Denver isn't a Super Bowl champ. It's that simple.

2) How under siege this defense was in all year. I mean, 51 fourth quarter drives with the game on the line? I am not going to go crazy and look, but I wonder how many teams in history have faced that kind of pressure. The Broncos played 19 games and the defense wasn't under make or break pressure in the fourth quarter 3 times. (Green Bay, KC, @ San Diego) That's nuts to me.

[Kodos]

I can verify that I watched just about every Broncos game this season, and rarely was there a comfortable lead.

[Carman Bulldog]

Yup, football is one of the most difficult sports for comparisons for a myriad of reasons. Different rules, different schemes and different schedules. We could go all day comparing the LOB to the 2000 Ravens to the 2002 Bucs (a very underrated defense) to the 85 Bears (who I think is the best of all time) to the Steelers to the Dolphins to the Packers.

I just posted those stats because they fascinated me, not to prove anything to anyone. I am still amazed at:

1) How lucky Denver was this year. Seriously, change one play in about 8 different games and Denver isn't a Super Bowl champ. It's that simple.

2) How under siege this defense was in all year. I mean, 51 fourth quarter drives with the game on the line? I am not going to go crazy and look, but I wonder how many teams in history have faced that kind of pressure. The Broncos played 19 games and the defense wasn't under make or break pressure in the fourth quarter 3 times. (Green Bay, KC, @ San Diego) That's nuts to me.

Stats show the 2015 Broncos defense is top-10 all time, but just barely (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/proof-that-the-broncos-put-together-one-of-the-greatest-nfl-defenses-of-all-time)

[Carman Bulldog]

I posted the above link as I think it somewhat supports both of our arguments. Obviously the Broncos rank last behind all of the "best" defences of all time in raw stats and nearly last in adjusted stats (with the exception being a very impressive adjusted yards per play).

The article does also mention their poor offence and how the number of turnovers may have inflated their points against. Having said that, we could play the what if game all day. I would argue that the Broncos defensive statistics were so good because they were constantly in close games. With a better offence, that would mean larger leads, which would arguably mean more garbage time stats against them, such as points and yards allowed. The Broncos defence didn't have the luxury of sitting back in prevent and giving up those yards and scores.

Ultimately, I think the article supports my original assertion that they are at a level just below the '85 Bears, 70's Steelers, '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '13 Seahawks, etc. Could they have been better with a better offence? Perhaps, but I think it's just as likely that they would be statistically inferior and arguably less lauded than they are now.

[TroyF]

I posted the above link as I think it somewhat supports both of our arguments. Obviously the Broncos rank last behind all of the "best" defences of all time in raw stats and nearly last in adjusted stats (with the exception being a very impressive adjusted yards per play).

The article does also mention their poor offence and how the number of turnovers may have inflated their points against. Having said that, we could play the what if game all day. I would argue that the Broncos defensive statistics were so good because they were constantly in close games. With a better offence, that would mean larger leads, which would arguably mean more garbage time stats against them, such as points and yards allowed. The Broncos defence didn't have the luxury of sitting back in prevent and giving up those yards and scores.

Ultimately, I think the article supports my original assertion that they are at a level just below the '85 Bears, 70's Steelers, '00 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '13 Seahawks, etc. Could they have been better with a better offence? Perhaps, but I think it's just as likely that they would be statistically inferior and arguably less lauded than they are now.

I disagree with your premise. If the Broncos D had leads and could tee off in the second half instead of deal with play action and their entire offense, I think Denver would have mauled teams. I think the turnovers go up and the sacks go up by a decent sized amount.

Keep in mind, Denver had an unbelievable amount of depth at the pass rushing positions this year. The two games they actually had a lead on this year (Green Bay, San Diego) both saw the opposition offense suffocated in the fourth quarter. (the only other game they didn't have a close fourth quarter was the Chiefs game they were behind by over one score)

I think that adjusted yards against proves my point. They were dominant, but other teams got a lot more plays against them and the offensive turnovers, time off the clock and starting field position put them behind the 8 ball far more often than most of those great defenses.

Essentially, what you are saying is that those other 9 defenses were so good that they dominated in garbage time, but this Denver defense was only ranked high because they were in close games. That's a premise I reject from the start.

[jbergey22]

I disagree with your premise. If the Broncos D had leads and could tee off in the second half instead of deal with play action and their entire offense, I think Denver would have mauled teams. I think the turnovers go up and the sacks go up by a decent sized amount.

Keep in mind, Denver had an unbelievable amount of depth at the pass rushing positions this year. The two games they actually had a lead on this year (Green Bay, San Diego) both saw the opposition offense suffocated in the fourth quarter. (the only other game they didn't have a close fourth quarter was the Chiefs game they were behind by over one score)

I think that adjusted yards against proves my point. They were dominant, but other teams got a lot more plays against them and the offensive turnovers, time off the clock and starting field position put them behind the 8 ball far more often than most of those great defenses.

Essentially, what you are saying is that those other 9 defenses were so good that they dominated in garbage time, but this Denver defense was only ranked high because they were in close games. That's a premise I reject from the start.

He is just saying that defenses give up a lot of easy yards when the game is out of hand as the prevent defense is just in mode to not give up huge plays. Teams regularly rack up tons of stats that are meaningless in lopsided games.

[TroyF]

He is just saying that defenses give up a lot of easy yards when the game is out of hand as the prevent defense is just in mode to not give up huge plays. Teams regularly rack up tons of stats that are meaningless in lopsided games.


I understand exactly what he's saying, and I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Again, the other top defenses on that list were so good that when the game got out of hand they stayed solid, but the Broncos would have failed. I reject that.

Beyond that, big leads early on would have meant the Denver D could have pinned their ears back and truly went crazy with the pass rush. That would have resulted in more sacks and more turnovers. You would think the Packers and Aaron Rodgers would have been a perfect team to light up the Denver D in garbage time.

Well, that resulted in a safety and another drive where Denver got a sack and forced a fumble (that GB recovered)

With the Denver depth, I don't buy at all that teams would have been able to get huge chunks of garbage time drives anymore than I think Seattle would have allowed them in 2013.

Again, if that's the premise, I reject it. Everyone has the right to disagree with me, but I'm not buying into that.

[TroyF]

100% disgusted Talib got fined and not suspended for his conduct in the Super Bowl. I was positive the league would suspend him one game and was hoping for a multi game suspension.

I just hope the next guy he cheap shots gets up again like this one did. The NFL is seriously taking a chance on the health of their players by not taking this guy to task .