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bdubbs
03-13-2017, 04:33 PM
Hey everyone, I haven't delved incredibly deep with FoF8. No MP yet, just run through a bunch of seasons offline to see if I can get a feel for the roster building, contract management, and year to year ratings.

I haven't kept track of how many season's I've run but it's probably 30-50 now and I just wanted to share some of my anecdotal observations when it comes to which positions seem to have the most / least depth throughout the years as well as which positions appear to bring more overall value when it comes to superstar players. This is the order that I've come to prioritize positions in the draft independent of team needs.

The obvious spot at #1 belongs to QB. I've found it entirely possible to put together a strong team without a franchise QB, but when it comes to quarterbacks in the high 50's ratings it feels like a huge crap shoot of trying to find a guy who will thrive in your system, which is a guess and check situation. I've also witnessed from my own teams and CPU teams that there seems to be such a thing as "one hit wonders" where middling QB's on a team with enough talent put up prolific numbers for a season but never touch those numbers again.

Elite QB draft prospect's seem to be pretty rare. The most rookies with a scouted future potential of 65+ I've seen come into a single draft is 3, and it seems common for drafts to be completely absent a QB in the top 8 pre draft rankings.

I give my #2 Spot to Running Backs

In the NFL RB's fell out of favor but are making a come back due to scarcity of elite QB talent and the fact that defensive coordinators have caught up with this paradigm shift and are putting more emphasis on shutting down opposing passing games. In FoF a top tier RB can put up tremendous production and feels like a position where you'll rarely find players developing beyond a low 60s rating. When an elite RB enters a draft class at the top of the board the CPU also seems to prioritize them, and they rarely fall in the draft the way some elite defensive players might.

RB is also a position where players don't age well so having a young elite talent at the position is an advantage that most teams won't have. Even with a tough OL I have struggled to get meaningful production out of running backs with ratings in the 50s.

My #3 Spot goes to WR's

This makes 3 offensive positions in a row, and I believe it's the interdependence of the offensive positions combined with the scarcity of talent in the draft that make these 3 positions stand out the most. Without at least one very talented WR even an elite QB is likely to put up mediocre numbers. Without a talented RB or QB a strong OL feels like dead cap space, etc. A WR that can do it all is a rarity in the draft, and even if a talented WR ever hits free agency he's probably going to be 27 or older and wants a king's ransom to sign. This is another position where ratings declines seem to happen young and rapidly, further increasing scarcity.

My #4 Spot goes to CB's

In my mind those first 3 were pretty easy to choose as priorities #1, 2, and 3 but this fourth spot feels much more tightly contested. The alternative choice would have been offensive tackle, but I think CB wins out here due to a bump in scarcity. Elite caliber CB's are a rarity, and finding a guy with great combines, a high interception bar, and high coverage bars is a pretty big rarity.

My # 5 Spot goes to OT

I'm not sure how but not every OL position is made equal in terms of this game. I think the best way to build an OL is with two great tackles and then average quality starters on the interior to save cap space. The most successful run I had with a team was when I had a franchise QB, elite RB, elite WR, and elite LT. The rest of my offense was average ratings which let me put together a pretty strong defense as well. I managed to make a 3 year run at the Front Office Bowl, winning 2 of them before losing a lot of key pieces that I couldn't afford to keep. It's also worth noting that I've found a fair amount of situations where I was able to convert a tackle into an interior lineman for a net ratings boost, particularly to center which can be helpful for filling out your line.

My #6 spot goes to linebackers

I'm not going to discern between ILBs and OLBs because for the most part they seem to be interchangeable. There's a greater wealth of talent at LB than some other positions but I think they make a bigger impact on defense than some of the others

My #7 spot goes to safeties

I've found that safeties don't typically make the same impact on defense as they do in the NFL. While an elite safety can make up for lack of LB talent by becoming a tackling machine I find that they rarely become a disruptive force in coverage even with high bars. That aside they are much more scarce in a draft than elite LBs and DL which gives them some premium.

My #8 spot goes to DL

D lineman are largely interchangeable, and while I'm sure there are some that would disagree with that I believe that for the purposes of this game the defensive system doesn't have a huge impact on player roles. I've had elite DE's in a true 34 average over 15 sacks a season. I think these positions are important for building a strong defense, but elite DL are in the top of every draft class and at the end of the day feels like the easiest positions to fill with quality players.

My #9 spot goes to TE's

I've never tried building an offense with a TE as a major presence. I've had elite TE's come and go from teams but unless you emphasize them in the game plan they don't seem to make much of an impact. In theory though if utilized properly a pass catching TE can be as valuable as receiver if you gameplan around him. TE's can be surprisingly expensive to keep around though, especially the talented ones, and you can live with average starters here.

My #10 and final spot goes to interior OL

I just don't feel like you ever get your "bang for your buck" here. High rated interior lineman are expensive to keep around but don't seem to be able to "anchor" an OL the way a tackle can. The only time I ever draft a guard or center in the first 2 rounds is if they appear to have significantly higher ratings than all other available prospects and I'm already comfortable with my starters at most other positions

What are all your thoughts about priority by position?

Squirrel
03-14-2017, 04:56 AM
Cool idea for a thread, and nice write-up.

I'm a FOF rookie so don't have any valuable thoughts on this. But what I would suggest, if you haven't already, is to study the recent CCFL allocation draft (http://ccfl.fof-belco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41). Plenty of experienced GMs in that league and they each had to build a roster from scratch. I found it interesting to have a close look at it.

PikeStance
03-14-2017, 08:23 AM
This is unscientific. I noticed when you start the game in SP, when you draft the team it is very strong. However, int he leagues I have played in I noticed that there aren't that many teams anywhere near that level of strength. This is unscientific of course.

If true I wonder if this is by design or in MP games player development is not meeting its full potential. Maybe salary cap issues changes things as well. This could be my own self- delusion.

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It actually makes sense that elite QBs are rare because they are. Many QBs are above average and even more are average or below.

Most teams can put together a fairly decent rushing attack by committee. They aren't that many elite RBs in the league. The same is true for receivers who tend to benefactors of systems. The league have few elite quality receivers. Some guys are hyped up more than they should be.

I am a little surprise the the LBs are has far down on the list as they are.

Generally, if I had to complain is that league is dominated with lot of 30s and 40s type players. I would consider 30 to be below average and more likely a situational player. A lot of teams have a lot of player's in the 30s. Heck, a lot of people try to trade these guys. These guys should be reserve players, not starters.

anyway, good job bdudds

Ben E Lou
03-14-2017, 08:35 AM
This is unscientific. I noticed when you start the game in SP, when you draft the team it is very strong. However, int he leagues I have played in I noticed that there aren't that many teams anywhere near that level of strength. This is unscientific of course.

If true I wonder if this is by design or in MP games player development is not meeting its full potential. Maybe salary cap issues changes things as well. This could be my own self- delusion. The overall amount of talent in FOF8 is significantly higher than that of FOF7. If you are in converted leagues, that is what you are seeing. The draft classes in converted leagues will bring things up to SP levels over time. The CCFL was started with FOF8, and the talent there looks quite similar to SP.

bdubbs
03-14-2017, 03:15 PM
This is unscientific. I noticed when you start the game in SP, when you draft the team it is very strong. However, int he leagues I have played in I noticed that there aren't that many teams anywhere near that level of strength. This is unscientific of course.

If true I wonder if this is by design or in MP games player development is not meeting its full potential. Maybe salary cap issues changes things as well. This could be my own self- delusion.

------

It actually makes sense that elite QBs are rare because they are. Many QBs are above average and even more are average or below.

Most teams can put together a fairly decent rushing attack by committee. They aren't that many elite RBs in the league. The same is true for receivers who tend to benefactors of systems. The league have few elite quality receivers. Some guys are hyped up more than they should be.

I am a little surprise the the LBs are has far down on the list as they are.

Generally, if I had to complain is that league is dominated with lot of 30s and 40s type players. I would consider 30 to be below average and more likely a situational player. A lot of teams have a lot of player's in the 30s. Heck, a lot of people try to trade these guys. These guys should be reserve players, not starters.

anyway, good job bdudds

I would love to get more scientific but at the end of the day I'm not putting the time in to gather the data :p I just figured I'd throw the philosophy I've developed through playing up here and see where people agree or disagree.

I looked at some MP league websites and checked out some rosters and it definitely appears like there's less overall ratings are lower than what I'm used to seeing in SP mode, but for all I know that could easily just be that there's more competition for free agents and talent gets spread around more than SP.

The argument against that is even with teams where all my starters are 50 or above and I feel like I have a strong roster I'm not immune to 8-8 seasons even absent key injuries, so I have to assume there's a fair bit of talent around the league. Or maybe I'm just terrible at gameplans

@Squirrel Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check that out.

PikeStance
03-14-2017, 08:22 PM
The overall amount of talent in FOF8 is significantly higher than that of FOF7. If you are in converted leagues, that is what you are seeing. The draft classes in converted leagues will bring things up to SP levels over time. The CCFL was started with FOF8, and the talent there looks quite similar to SP.

Thanks! That is good to know. I do not have enough exp with FOF7 to make a comparison with FOF8. So, does this mesn in FOF7 the talent did decrease gradually over time?

I would love to get more scientific but at the end of the day I'm not putting the time in to gather the data :p I just figured I'd throw the philosophy I've developed through playing up here and see where people agree or disagree.

I looked at some MP league websites and checked out some rosters and it definitely appears like there's less overall ratings are lower than what I'm used to seeing in SP mode, but for all I know that could easily just be that there's more competition for free agents and talent gets spread around more than SP.

The argument against that is even with teams where all my starters are 50 or above and I feel like I have a strong roster I'm not immune to 8-8 seasons even absent key injuries, so I have to assume there's a fair bit of talent around the league. Or maybe I'm just terrible at gameplans.

I think a telling sign is when people are offering players in the 30s for trade. A player with this low rating should be a back-up or situational type player. Even if you offer a round 7 as a trade, it is hardly worth it. I can hardly do worse drafting if I close my eyes and point.

Ben E Lou
03-15-2017, 06:58 AM
So, does this mesn in FOF7 the talent did decrease gradually over time?
No. It means that there is more talent in FOF8 than FOF7.