The NBA 2018 Offseason Thread

[miami_fan]

OFFSEASON TIME!

There are still two HC positions open in Detroit and Toronto.

[MrBug708]

Landon? Probably not, doesn't make sense with Lebron chasing rings still

[JonInMiddleGA]

Anybody else see this? J.J. Hickson accused of a home invasion / armed robbery.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/man-who-helped-nba-player-100k-robbery-surrenders-officials-say/pFb61vYH4FFXT4CwUxecrL/

[miami_fan]

LA Clippers send Austin Rivers to Washington Wizards for center Marcin Gortat (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23918159/la-clippers-send-austin-rivers-washington-wizards-center-marcin-gortat)

Adding the personality of Austin Rivers to the Wall/Beal combo is at least interesting.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Morris twin. Should be good times.

[Chief Rum]

Gonna miss Austin Rivers.

Wait, no, no I won't.

[stevew]

I always thought that playing for a coach with a kid on the team and a daughter who bangs players would make for a weird ass dynamic.

[Subby]

I hate the Wizards GM but I like that he was able to move Gortat without giving up assets. Rivers is deservedly maligned, but he is a good scorer and an excellent option of the bench. Be interesting to see how Troy Brown develops, but I like that the Wiz are stocking up on 3 and D dudes like Oubre, Porter, Satoransky, etc..

[Dantooine98]

where do you think Lebron will end up? I think he'll stay in Cleveland.

[Groundhog]

I say this as a Cavs fan - I hope LeBron creates a superteam somewhere and racks up 3 or 4 titles. If it's Cleveland, great. If it's not, completely understand.

[Eaglesfan27]

I say this as a Cavs fan - I hope LeBron creates a superteam somewhere and racks up 3 or 4 titles. If it's Cleveland, great. If it's not, completely understand.

Hopefully in Philly!

[stevew]

Dante Exum could be a nice signing for someone. Offer him a full midlevel and see if the Jazz match. He's been hurt a lot, but he's only 22.

[miami_fan]

Somebody (see Dallas) is really going to pay DeAndre Jordan more than $24 million this offseason?

Hmph

[Groundhog]

Dante Exum could be a nice signing for someone. Offer him a full midlevel and see if the Jazz match. He's been hurt a lot, but he's only 22.

I don't think he's ever going to be the player I thought he would be after his junior performances for our national team, but if he can hit .400 of his 3s and play lock down D while staying healthy he's going to be in the NBA a long time. The 'staying healthy' part is the real wildcard.

[stevew]

Didn’t he only have a freak shoulder injury and an ACL tear?
?

[Chief Rum]

Somebody (see Dallas) is really going to pay DeAndre Jordan more than $24 million this offseason?

Hmph

Yea my thought as well. I love DJ, one of my favorite players to root for in the league, but I have no idea what he and his agent are thinking there.

[Chief Rum]

Didn’t he only have a freak shoulder injury and an ACL tear?
?

When you have been in the league for four years but have played less than two seasons of games, freak injuries or not, that is something to question.

[Groundhog]

Bogut was another Aussie who had no specific recurring injuries, just a series of freak injuries throughout his career that saw him miss tons of games. Not to the extent of Exum though.

[BishopMVP]

Somebody (see Dallas) is really going to pay DeAndre Jordan more than $24 million this offseason?

HmphNot for 2018-19, but if he wants to sign a multiyear contract with Dallas or somebody maybe that extra guaranteed money is worth lowering his potential.monetary ceiling. Or maybe he really is interested in signing with Golden State for a year then re-entering the market next summer when many more teams have cap space. He's always seemed like somebody who wants to be wanted, and once you've already earned $100 million I imagine it's a lot easier to look past strict dollar amounts when deciding your next job.

[Chief Rum]

Bogut was another Aussie who had no specific recurring injuries, just a series of freak injuries throughout his career that saw him miss tons of games. Not to the extent of Exum though.

Bogut, who broke his leg in the first few minutes of his first game with the Cavs in 2017? Naw, that guy's injury prone too. There are only so many "freak injuries" you can suffer before a pattern starts to emerge.

[stevew]

I just don't see how giving Chris Paul a four-year deal at 40 million dollars a year is a good idea

[JonInMiddleGA]

I just don't see how giving Chris Paul a four-year deal at 40 million dollars a year is a good idea

Just replace CP & 40 with Paul George & 30whatever and you've got my NBA thought of the night.

[miami_fan]

I think both signings are defensible. The Rockets now have to trust their medical staff to get him though what six more playoff wins? If they are able to do that and win a title, all of the money on the back end is worth it.

The George signing is not the problem in OKC. It is not necessarily championship worthy but Westbrook/George/Adams is a pretty good core. The corpse of Melo, that is the problem. How many 1st rounders do you attached to Melo's contract to get him the hell out of OKC?

I am interested in what the Lakers do now. I will have to go back and take a look at what the proposed deals were for George were last year. The assumption of a 2018 deal with George being inevitable so why part with anything of value to get him in a 2017 trade with the Pacers seems to have backfired. How sure are they that Kawhi is going to LA in 2019?

[Calis]

Oddly as a Thunder fan I was more excited by the re-signing of Grant. I thought someone might take a chance and overpay him. Glad he stayed, and curious to see how he grows. I think he has pretty solid potential.

I was kind of hoping to see the Suns go after VanVleet. I thought he’d be a fun PG stopgap for them.. not sure I understand Ariza there that much.

I think I’ve reachsd the point where I’m tired of the Kawhi drama and just want that over with.

I’d love to see LeBron end up in Philly I think. I think that’s a team that’d be really interesting to watch.. although I still think Simmons and LeBron is an odd pairing. Could the Sixers afford to sign Redick also?

[stevew]

sixers could probably try to trade Covington or Bayless(or stretch-cut bayless), and then use that money to sign JJ and LeBron. JJ would have to be renounced in order to make any kind of cap space but it's doable.

[Groundhog]

Bogut, who broke his leg in the first few minutes of his first game with the Cavs in 2017? Naw, that guy's injury prone too. There are only so many "freak injuries" you can suffer before a pattern starts to emerge.

That's my point though. It's not like he had a degenerative knee condition or something - he just continuously picked up unrelated injuries that saw him miss extended time. I think he should have been playing about 15-20 lbs lighter than he did to match his style of play (in the Bucks days, anyway) - his build just increased his odds of injury. I think Exum is the same, but on the other end of the spectrum.

[Groundhog]

I don't really see LeBron and Ben Simmons as a good match either. Simmons' numbers would fall through the floor.

[JPhillips]

And Markelle Fultz. I don't think there's enough ball for all of them, and the team would generally be very short of shooters.

[jbergey22]

Lebron reportedly to the Lakers.

[miami_fan]

LeBron James joining Los Angeles Lakers on 4-year, $154 million deal (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23967725/lebron-james-joining-los-angeles-lakers-4-year-154-million-deal)

[Atocep]

Unless the Spurs are ready to help out the Lakers I don't think this puts him much closer to a title than he was in Cleveland.

[Groundhog]

If nothing else, it puts his run on Finals appearances in jeopardy. Strange signing, but I assume Lakers are about to pull the trigger on some other pieces now.

[tarcone]

Unless the Spurs are ready to help out the Lakers I don't think this puts him much closer to a title than he was in Cleveland.

I agree. Paul George will be there also. So that may change thisngs a bit.

And coming out of the West is, obviously, wat more difficult. Im surprised he didnt go to Philly.

[Atocep]

If nothing else, it puts his run on Finals appearances in jeopardy. Strange signing, but I assume Lakers are about to pull the trigger on some other pieces now.

His previous moves made sense from a pure basketball standpoint. This seems to be more about maximizing his income as he gets toward the end of his career. He's stated his goal is to own a team one day and playing and marketing himself in LA is probably the best way to reach that goal.

[Lathum]

I agree. Paul George will be there also. So that may change thisngs a bit.

And coming out of the West is, obviously, wat more difficult. Im surprised he didnt go to Philly.

PG13 already said he was staying in OKC

[miami_fan]

I agree. Paul George will be there also. So that may change thisngs a bit.

And coming out of the West is, obviously, wat more difficult. Im surprised he didnt go to Philly.

PG13 already said he was staying in OKC

Well so did DeAndre in 2015;)

[RainMaker]

Unless the Spurs are ready to help out the Lakers I don't think this puts him much closer to a title than he was in Cleveland.

They'll likely get Kawhi next year and have a pretty nice team.

Lebron has won 3 titles. He's getting older. And there is no team he could join (and get paid) that would come close to the Warriors. So now he gets to live in L.A., do movies and stuff, and make a lot of money.

[MrBug708]

It's been awhile since the Lakers actually landed a big name in basketball FA

[stevew]

Hoping Gilbert melts down again and the board of governors forces him to sell the team.

[EagleFan]

Not sure what it means but heard that Leonard would resign with Philly if he is traded there. It wasn't a local story so I don't know what to make of it. If it was local I would write it off as just more wishful thinking.

Of course also hearing Lebron met with Philly today and may announce his decision tomorrow. The hopeful side of me wants both of those to be true.

[MrBug708]

I doubt anybody truly knows what Kawhi would do, including resigning with Philly. He certainly isn't going to leak that out right now. It is kinda like the report that Klay would take less money to resign with US. His dad, a radio guy, laughed and said that ain't no source

[BishopMVP]

Not sure what it means but heard that Leonard would resign with Philly if he is traded there. It wasn't a local story so I don't know what to make of it. If it was local I would write it off as just more wishful thinking.

Of course also hearing Lebron met with Philly today and may announce his decision tomorrow. The hopeful side of me wants both of those to be true.Well, #2 is off the board.

And yeah, I doubt anyone outside Kawhi & his uncle know what he wants to do, and I'm not sure I'd trust his word even if he said it.

(PS I guess Dallas did offer the same $24m DeAndre Jordan turned down in his player option... and the NBA office will still pretend tampering doesn't happen :) )

[stevew]

Lance Stevenson to the Lakers lol.

[stevew]

Cedi Osman has some big shoes to fill.

[bhlloy]

Should be fun to see the first LeVar meltdown now it's not Lonzo's team

[EagleFan]

Guess Lebron is tired of losing the finals, so he doesn't want to get anywhere near them.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm surprised he signed that long of a deal. That's the part to me that indicates his priorities aren't the same as they were. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Brian Swartz]

Also: LeBron, Lance Stephenson, and Lonzo Ball on the same team(assuming no other deals shake that up). Oh, the books that are going to be written about this. Luke Walton's gonna earn his money.

[Chief Rum]

That's my point though. It's not like he had a degenerative knee condition or something - he just continuously picked up unrelated injuries that saw him miss extended time. I think he should have been playing about 15-20 lbs lighter than he did to match his style of play (in the Bucks days, anyway) - his build just increased his odds of injury. I think Exum is the same, but on the other end of the spectrum.

No, I get that. I'm taking a more macro look at it. Yes, perhaps all of Bogut's injuries are freak injuries, sure. But he gets a LOT of freak injuries. At some point, you have to stop talking about bad luck and start talking injury prone.

[Ksyrup]

Hoping Gilbert melts down again and the board of governors forces him to sell the team.

I saw something where he a quote was attributed to him about being glad LeBron is leaving so he can get his team back.

[Ksyrup]

Hoping Gilbert melts down again and the board of governors forces him to sell the team.

I saw something where a quote was attributed to him about being glad LeBron is leaving so he can get his team back.

[BishopMVP]

Also: LeBron, Lance Stephenson, and Lonzo Ball on the same team(assuming no other deals shake that up). Oh, the books that are going to be written about this. Luke Walton's gonna earn his money.Will he, or will he be pushed out the door by at least next seasons trade deadline?

Also, they just signed Javale McGee, and have still been linked to both Boogie & Nerlens Noel. Though I do think there's a decent chance Lonzo is traded in a Kawhi deal if the Spurs decide to trade him.

[Groundhog]

Not NBA, but one of the worst brawls I’ve seen in a game tonight in the Australia vs Philippines. One Aussie was on the ground being laid into by about 10 Philippines players.

[Groundhog]

And the Philippines team smiling and taking selfies afterwards. Unbelievable.

[heybrad]

Not NBA, but one of the worst brawls I’ve seen in a game tonight in the Australia vs Philippines. One Aussie was on the ground being laid into by about 10 Philippines players.
Where were his teammates?

[Groundhog]

The 4 on the court where down the other end, with the bench being held back. No Australia’s came on from the bench, and Luc Longley the assistant coach had to run down and get the Aussie off the ground.

No one realised he was on the ground until he was being mobbed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wonder if this somehow played a part in that strangeness?

FIBA WORLD CUP ASIAN QUALIFIERS: Australia apologizes over Philippine Arena incident | ABS-CBN Sports (https://sports.abs-cbn.com/basketball/news/2018/07/02/fiba-australia-apologizes-philippine-arena-incident-43828)

edit to add: No, I'm not suggesting any sort of legitimacy to that connection. I'm just wondering if somehow it was a factor in what sounds like base thuggery.

[Groundhog]

Rambulan sa Fiba Philippines VS Australia Fight!!!! Literal na suntukan!!! - YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a7heJkrQUrE)

Embed link isn’t working, but there’s some footage.

[Groundhog]

Wonder if this somehow played a part in that strangeness?

FIBA WORLD CUP ASIAN QUALIFIERS: Australia apologizes over Philippine Arena incident | ABS-CBN Sports (https://sports.abs-cbn.com/basketball/news/2018/07/02/fiba-australia-apologizes-philippine-arena-incident-43828)

edit to add: No, I'm not suggesting any sort of legitimacy to that connection. I'm just wondering if somehow it was a factor in what sounds like base thuggery.

I doubt it. It did cause some Twitter controversy today. Bigger factor was 30 point 3rd quarter lead we had on their home court.

[JonInMiddleGA]

for the curious, there's also some fan-shot footage in the link of the fight story on that site I linked the decal story from

[Groundhog]

9 Philippines players ejected. Took 30 minutes to decide. Going to be some lengthy suspensions.

DolA

Game is not cancelled.. playing 5 on 3... ridiculous.

[BishopMVP]

Where's Collin Sexton when you need him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Having seen some footage of the start of the melee it's maybe a little more balanced than it initial seemed. Well, the on-the-court part was. It got uneven pretty quickly once one bench cleared.

And, uh, what's up with what appears to be almost hockey style boards in front of the Phillipine bench? From the looks of it, they had to hop the boards to rush the court.

edit to add: 24/7 sports has the clip I'm talking about (from Aussie TV best I can tell) but I won't link here 'cause I think that's one of the sites that makes threads go haywire here.

[Thomkal]

Well as a Pacers fan, I'm glad to see James leave Cleveland and join the madness that is the West. Maybe now they can actually get by the Cavs in the Playoffs. And added bonus, Golden State can take out the Lakers before the Finals, so Pacers don't have to face him at all.

[Groundhog]

The initial retaliation foul from Kickert was bad and suspension worthy, but what happened to Sobey on the ground with the mob (as well as the thrown chair to the back of his head) was pretty sickening. Philippines hosting the 2023 world cup, could be interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The initial retaliation foul from Kickert was bad and suspension worthy, but what happened to Sobey on the ground with the mob (as well as the thrown chair to the back of his head) was pretty sickening. Philippines hosting the 2023 world cup, could be interesting.

Honestly, after that, they shouldn't be hosting anything IMO.

[miami_fan]

Also: LeBron, Lance Stephenson, and Lonzo Ball on the same team(assuming no other deals shake that up). Oh, the books that are going to be written about this. Luke Walton's gonna earn his money.

Reportedly add Rondo to the mix.

Nerlens Noel to the Thunder.

[MrBug708]

Lakers renounced Randle

[RainMaker]

Lebron is a pretty bad GM.

[Brian Swartz]

Maybe now they can actually get by the Cavs in the Playoffs.

Depends on who Cleveland adds. There's a pretty good chance that nobody gets by the Cavs in the playoffs … because they'll be in the lottery.

[Izulde]

I said two years ago the Lakers needed to trade Randle while his stock was still fairly high. Now this shit. JFC.

[Groundhog]

Too early for LBJ to demand a trade? I'm still assuming there is one big name deal in the works, because otherwise this is looking worse than Cleveland 2017-18. Hard to picture a PG less suitable for an LBJ team than Rondo.

[Shkspr]

Depends on who Cleveland adds. There's a pretty good chance that nobody gets by the Cavs in the playoffs … because they'll be in the lottery.

To be fair, there's a pretty good chance the entire Eastern Conference will end up in the lottery.

[Atocep]

Too early for LBJ to demand a trade? I'm still assuming there is one big name deal in the works, because otherwise this is looking worse than Cleveland 2017-18. Hard to picture a PG less suitable for an LBJ team than Rondo.

Lonzo and Rondo has to be among the worst point guard combos you could place with LeBron.

[BishopMVP]

Too early for LBJ to demand a trade? I'm still assuming there is one big name deal in the works, because otherwise this is looking worse than Cleveland 2017-18. Hard to picture a PG less suitable for an LBJ team than Rondo.I assume that means they think Ball will be included in a trade for Kawhi, but still makes little sense. Is D-Wade next? Waiting for Carmelo to get bought out?

Also, that whole brawl is looking even worse, from the coach in the previous huddle - Anton Tioseco on Twitter: "Video proof (thanks to @radnovales )… " (https://twitter.com/antontioseco/status/1013787291393744896) - to seeing pictures of what seems to be a cameraman punching an Aussie player in the face & a fan throwing that chair. Is FIBA as corrupt as the IOC/FIFA, or is there a chance the Philippines will be seriously punished?

[Groundhog]

Also, that whole brawl is looking even worse, from the coach in the previous huddle - Anton Tioseco on Twitter: "Video proof (thanks to @radnovales )… " (https://twitter.com/antontioseco/status/1013787291393744896) - to seeing pictures of what seems to be a cameraman punching an Aussie player in the face & a fan throwing that chair. Is FIBA as corrupt as the IOC/FIFA, or is there a chance the Philippines will be seriously punished?

Now that I've had time to calm down, I agree that the worst part of all this is the combination of fans, staff, and even team officials who got involved. IMO any fan in the clip throwing punches or stomping should be charged with assault. Any official should be banned. Security should be sacked. Refs should be disciplined for not trying to separate players initially.

Also the way the Philippines carried on in the 30 mins after while it was reviewed was particularly disgusting - not to mention the way the coach and PG Romeo spoke after the game - the guy that came swinging at Maker from behind early in the fracas.

I suspect it will be fines and suspensions from FIBA - Kickert and Maker will miss some games (in particular Kickert), but does any NBA team want their highly paid players to risk it on a court in that atmosphere? There was expected to be 50,000 fans in the arena that game but it was probably closer to 20k thanks to the high ticket prices... Could have been much worse with a huge crowd, because it looked like it was on the verge of being even worse than it turned out to be - which itself was really bad.

[Brian Swartz]

I assume that means they think Ball will be included in a trade for Kawhi, but still makes little sense.

Plus, everything I've read -- which I know rumors are flying like crazy, but -- says the Spurs aren't interested in Lonzo. They like Kuzma, Ingram, etc. but Lonzo not so much. Which makes sense. I just can't see Popovich dealing with a distraction like LaVar, who would be constantly throwing a fit about this that and the other.

[Groundhog]

An auspicious sign as Trae Young's first two threes in a Hawks jersey both fall about a foot wide of the basket.

[stevew]

So the Lakers can still trade Lonzo and Randal and maybe something else and get Boogie back and then still have the pieces to trade kuzma and Ingram for kwahi, correct? Pretty sure all of these moves are technically not completed yet.

Rondo/Kwahi/LeBron/Boogie/KCP is a pretty good crunchtime lineup. Plus you would have Josh Hart/Lance/javelle on the bench and some ring chasers(Jeff Green?). Def need a shooter, but Rondo is way better than he's being given credit for.

[Groundhog]

I just do not see Boogie and LBJ being able to co-exist on the one team.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Just saw a headline on my phone that said Boogie to the Warriors? How is that even possible?

Edit: 1 year, $5.3m, apparently.

[MrBug708]

In an effort to make sure the Lakers cannot assemble a super team, the NBA has essentially ruined itself with these rules.

[Shkspr]

Just saw a headline on my phone that said Boogie to the Warriors? How is that even possible?

Because we've all died and gone to NBA Hell.

[stevew]

Part of me wants the Cavs to dump everyone. But at the same time, it would be interesting to see if Kevin Love could become a superstar again.

[Groundhog]

I have no doubt that Love will average 25-15 again, just enough to keep the Cavs from a top 4 pick next season. IMO need to just move him now and rebuild.

Boogie to Warriors is just dumb. *shrug*

[Ksyrup]

Brilliant move by GS. Now Cousins can deflect half of Draymond's technicals.

[MrBug708]

Magic failed today. Signing Rondo and missing Boogie

[Groundhog]

So far LBJ is looking like a fluke hole-in-one for Magic, compared to the other double-bogeys since.

[BishopMVP]

Just saw a headline on my phone that said Boogie to the Warriors? How is that even possible?

Edit: 1 year, $5.3m, apparently.After DAJ to DAL & Julius Randle to NO I was wondering who still had the money for Boogie. 1 year deal to prove he's healthy & re-enter FA in 2019 made sense, and I don't think anyone was actually offering him $15m+. So sure, why not?

Not sure if they had to do it to complete some other move, but Lakers renouncing Randle's matching rights this early seems like a bug mistake. Even if you're not inclined to match, NO might not have offered that quickly if he was still restricted.

I have no doubt that Love will average 25-15 again, just enough to keep the Cavs from a top 4 pick next season. IMO need to just move him now and rebuild.
Well, you'll still have the combination of rookie PG (who I like, but still) & Jordan Clarkson to run the offense through late in close games. Is Ty Lue smart enough to figure that out?...

[stevew]

The NBA is completely broken

[Comey]

Magic surrounded LeBron with The Land of Misfit Toys.

[jbergey22]

I dont really like the Cousins signing for Golden State. I mean they are already a well oiled machine in which adding a new part seems like a risk they dont need to take. As much talent as Boogie has he has never proved to be a winner in the NBA and New Orleans improved last year when Boogie went down. They already have a hard time getting Klay enough shots plus I think Boogie and Draymond are polar opposites as far as heart and determination.

[RainMaker]

Warriors were a lock to win it all anyway so I don't think the move really changes much. Maybe he helps, maybe not. Doesn't matter in this league.

[Groundhog]

Worst case the Warriors just cut Cousins and move on with their lives. Best case, well, see ya'll in the 2019 offseason folks because I have no interest in watching Team USA breeze through another season uncontested.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, Enes Kanter having a blast on Twitter

More
Adam Silver has agreed to a Mid Level Extension with the Golden State, league sources tell ME. ����

Wouldn’t be surprised if I see
BREAKING: Warriors just signed Thanos and John Wick to add to their bench for one year. Lol

[BYU 14]

Meanwhile, Enes Kanter having a blast on Twitter

More
Adam Silver has agreed to a Mid Level Extension with the Golden State, league sources tell ME. ����

Wouldn’t be surprised if I see
BREAKING: Warriors just signed Thanos and John Wick to add to their bench for one year. Lol

Classic

[JonInMiddleGA]

Speaking of tweets ... wouldn't Embid's tweets about "do a Deandre Jordan and #TrustIt" violate tampering rules?

Or is that not a thing since Lebron is out of contract technically?

[BishopMVP]

Warriors were a lock to win it all anyway so I don't think the move really changes much. Maybe he helps, maybe not. Doesn't matter in this league.
Worst case the Warriors just cut Cousins and move on with their lives. Best case, well, see ya'll in the 2019 offseason folks because I have no interest in watching Team USA breeze through another season uncontested.
Am I the only one who remembers the Warriors being down 3-2 in the conference finals, and probably a healthy Chris Paul, another rolled ankle for Steph, or even just an average shooting night from the Rockets away from losing it? (Yes, I know the Rockets have gotten a little worse with Ariza signing elsewhere, but no one expected them to be a good as they were. Plus LeBron might still pair up with Kawhi & there are two pretty good, ascendant teams in the East.)

You guys are smart enough basketball fans to realize that Demarcus Cousins (especially the version coming off an Achilles injury who won't even be healthy until midseason) doesn't provide an immediate upgrade for Golden State (even healthy Cousins probably shouldn't even crack their crunch time lineup...), so why pretend last season was a fait accompli and the Warriors weren't pushed (even if it was only one team)?

[Neon_Chaos]

The initial retaliation foul from Kickert was bad and suspension worthy, but what happened to Sobey on the ground with the mob (as well as the thrown chair to the back of his head) was pretty sickening. Philippines hosting the 2023 world cup, could be interesting.

Was watching live. The entire thing was pretty surreal.

[Neon_Chaos]

Wonder if this somehow played a part in that strangeness?

FIBA WORLD CUP ASIAN QUALIFIERS: Australia apologizes over Philippine Arena incident | ABS-CBN Sports (https://sports.abs-cbn.com/basketball/news/2018/07/02/fiba-australia-apologizes-philippine-arena-incident-43828)

edit to add: No, I'm not suggesting any sort of legitimacy to that connection. I'm just wondering if somehow it was a factor in what sounds like base thuggery.

It definitely fed into the fire before the game.

[RainMaker]

Rockets winning that series would have been one of the biggest upsets in NBA history. I just don't see that happening again. Especially with Paul a year older and Ariza gone.

The only chance a team has is injuries to two of the Warriors stars.

[SirFozzie]

Ok, I think we need to split the Warriors into two teams :)

[Brian Swartz]

My favorite tweet so far goes along the lines of: "When we speculate about how far LeBron could take Crappy Team X, it didn't mean we wanted the Lakers to try and out-do it in real life."

[Groundhog]

It definitely fed into the fire before the game.

I don't really think the decal stuff would have attributed to much, but interested to know if there's any truth to what the Philippines coach was saying about Kickert bumping players in the warmups.

Kickert is about the least physically imposing big guy to play the game - basically an old school finesse big who doesn't rebound or play defense. Seems out of character for him but might partially explain the reaction. Hell, even his dumb retaliation foul that started it to me looked like he aimed 6 inches higher than he planned.

[Neon_Chaos]

I don't really think the decal stuff would have attributed to much, but interested to know if there's any truth to what the Philippines coach was saying about Kickert bumping players in the warmups.

Kickert is about the least physically imposing big guy to play the game - basically an old school finesse big who doesn't rebound or play defense. Seems out of character for him but might partially explain the reaction. Hell, even his dumb retaliation foul that started it to me looked like he aimed 6 inches higher than he planned.

It may not be a big thing from an outsider's perspective. There was very big local media and social media talk over here about the disrespect that the Australian team gave when they stated ripping apart the decals.

The refs also didn't do a good job of managing the game, too many cheapshots from both teams that were let go. The Kickert elbow was just the fuse that lit the powderkeg.

The entire arena was egging the fight on, they even did a wave after the fight. Our players even took selfies on the court, considering the fight as a badge of honor rather than shame.

That being said, what happened was a complete disgrace. There are guys that should have been charged with assault on our side.

[Groundhog]

Looks like this is where it started: Australia vs Philippines basketball brawl new video: Newly reviewed vision shows altercation in warmups | FOX SPORTS (https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/basketball/australia-vs-philippines-brawl-newly-reviewed-vision-shows-altercation-in-warmups/news-story/95727f0e3ad79ed12eb4586507393e0a?__twitter_impression=true)

Agree re: the refs too. Did a real poor job managing the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Also, kudos to Thon Maker for attempting a solid flying kick, barely missing. :D

[Neon_Chaos]

Ozzy Man Reviews: BASKETBRAWL - YouTube (https://youtu.be/p4IDT3oTR0c)

[Groundhog]

Ozzy Man Reviews: BASKETBRAWL - YouTube (https://youtu.be/p4IDT3oTR0c)

Oh man, I knew that was coming. :D

Still waiting for the Thon Maker/Sagat from Street Fighter mashup gif.

[QuikSand]

As a casual NBA guy... what do you do right now if you're the Rockets?

[QuikSand]

...other than search for some sort of emergency clause to relocate to the Eastern Conference?

[stevew]

Someone suggested that it would now only require 1 plan crash to restore parity to the NBA. :(

[BishopMVP]

As a casual NBA guy... what do you do right now if you're the Rockets?You try and get cheap 3&D wings to replace Ariza, and hope your two shot creating stars stay healthy while one of Golden State's get hurt. Ferttita being unwilling to pay the tax $$$ to retain Ariza hurts, but I don't think Boogie changes the calculus between those two teams much - if Boogie is on the floor vs the Rockets, Warriors can't switch everything & Harden/Paul can attack him every possession with standard pick & rolls instead of the iso ball they had to go to.

You could also try to renew interest in re-seeding the playoffs, or at least the last 4 teams, instead of going strictly by conference affiliation. Though it is a little amusing now that LeBron opposing the idea publically was what really torpedoed it.
Rockets winning that series would have been one of the biggest upsets in NBA history. I just don't see that happening again. Especially with Paul a year older and Ariza gone.

The only chance a team has is injuries to two of the Warriors stars.The Rockets were +155 going in to that series, and had a 3-2 lead. I just don't get the need for hyperbole.

Yeah there's probably 25 teams in the NBA that have zero chance, and that's a problem, but I can say that while admitting the Warriors were legitimately challenged & had to step up (albeit only in 1/4 series, though hopefully this year a healthy Celtics team that's matched up really well vs them is the Finals opponent.)

[Young Drachma]

NBA needs a designated player rule or simply a hard cap to fix this problem. DP rule would make guys less inclined to sit on a team making way less when they could make a lot more if a team was willing to throw it at them if they were a DP. Hard cap would be more draconian.

Of course, going the baseball route would be even better but there are always too many guys making way more than they need to be making because the cash is available, though I wonder if an uncapped league would bring more European players and dudes who play in China over here because teams could pay them more to be here.

[albionmoonlight]

I think I like Arles' idea.

(1) Get rid of max salaries.

(2) Have a hard cap that's some amount over the soft cap. (And I know that there's some tension between guaranteed contracts and a hard cap, but it isn't like the NBA does not have a pretty good idea of where the cap is going, so I think that you could make that system work).

That would help reduce the outsized influence of stars because if you are paying actual market value for a Durant/LeBron/Davis, then you have less to pay your role players.

As for guys taking under market contracts to play where they want? That's not a problem. It's the free market. And, in the end, most guys take the most money. For every Boogie, there's ten guys who tell their agent "Just get me the most money." I don't see an epidemic of market-distorting contracts around the bend.

[BishopMVP]

I think allowing a much higher year to year increase, and going back to 5/6 year contracts could help. Forget the Boogie deal because there's some weird extenuating circumstances there, but having true superstars like LeBron & KD able to go for these 1 year + player option contracts and then just pick the best situation without sacrificing much money is a problem.

Plus this Golden State superteam was largely possible due to fortuitous timing around that huge cap spike. With Klay entering UFA this offseason, Draymond the next, KD on a 1+1 & Steph Curry owed $43 million/year for his age 32-34 seasons the actual Warriors juggernaut will likely be coming back to the pack soon.

[stevew]

Designating salaries at a % of the cap instead of dollar amounts would help. Just simply say 30% or something, and then only allow teams to exceed the cap by 20 percent or so. If the cap spikes existing players get more money and there's less to lavish on scrubs. And abolish the maximum salary. Skip all the dumb bird rights, etc. The Cavs had a season 4 years ago where they started under the cap and paid the luxury tax(or nearly did) by the end...I mean how does that even make sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

{scratches head} Honestly, I still don't get the level of angst about a dominant GS or anybody else. The Bulls won 6 of 8 titles in their run. Go back nearly 40 years, the NBA has been a league of extended finals runs. Over & over & over.

This isn't something new by any means but I don't recall the hooha over, say, the Lakers being a "superteam". It's what the NBA has been through the most successful years its had, so why so much uproar this time?

[Brian Swartz]

It's mostly because of how they are being formed. In the past, you didn't have top players leaving their team to form superteams. I.e, Dominique Wilkins staying in Atlanta as one example. The Bulls drafted Grant and Jordan, and traded for Pippen. I think that's legitimately different then a case where players are trying to join up with whatever the superteams(s) of the moment are and changing where they play a lot more. It's seen(and I think rightfully so) as being more unfair to the rest of the league as opposed to just getting beaten in the trading/drafting game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's mostly because of how they are being formed. In the past, you didn't have top players leaving their team to form superteams. I.e, Dominique Wilkins staying in Atlanta as one example. The Bulls drafted Grant and Jordan, and traded for Pippen. I think that's legitimately different then a case where players are trying to join up with whatever the superteams(s) of the moment are and changing where they play a lot more. It's seen(and I think rightfully so) as being more unfair to the rest of the league as opposed to just getting beaten in the trading/drafting game.

The journey may be different ... but the destination seems roughly the same.

[miami_fan]

Don't we questioned Dominique's status as a top player BECAUSE he spent so much of his career in Atlanta and was unable to lead them to any sort of playoff success?

[Brian Swartz]

I don't. Just like I don't think Garnett became magically better just because he went to Boston.

[korme]

Don't we questioned Dominique's status as a top player BECAUSE he spent so much of his career in Atlanta and was unable to lead them to any sort of playoff success?

The answer is yes. Like it or not, rings raise your historic value.

[Young Drachma]

I'm going to have to fire up Fast Break Pro Basketball and see if I can replicate some semblance of super team era free agent basketball.

[BishopMVP]

I'm going to have to fire up Fast Break Pro Basketball and see if I can replicate some semblance of super team era free agent basketball.Can it replicate a player entering free agency on a brutal injury where you don't know if he'll ever approach 100% of his previous production?

I hope DeMarcus comes back 100%, he's fun to watch & at least half of the problems in Sacramento were due to the Kings organization, but people are freaking out about superteams when he signed in GS, Paul George re-signed with OKC & LeBron just signed for a 35 win team? Seems a bit misguided. KD signing in GS last year was an unbelievable new precedent, but DMC to GS for 2018-19 is closer to Malone/Barkley signing with the Lakers than a real impact player changing the balance of power.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can it replicate a player entering free agency on a brutal injury where you don't know if he'll ever approach 100% of his previous production?

I hope DeMarcus comes back 100%, he's fun to watch & at least half of the problems in Sacramento were due to the Kings organization, but people are freaking out about superteams when he signed in GS, Paul George re-signed with OKC & LeBron just signed for a 35 win team? Seems a bit misguided. KD signing in GS last year was an unbelievable new precedent, but DMC to GS for 2018-19 is closer to Malone/Barkley signing with the Lakers than a real impact player changing the balance of power.

What Boogie seems to mean is that people now have to hope that GS has two to three injuries to the starting lineup instead of one to two.

[miami_fan]

I wish we can spend less time trying to break apart the Warriors and more time trying to figure out how to get more out of an organization like the Magic.

[tarcone]

I think a regional draft would be cool.

Might change the college game though.

[Groundhog]

Trae Young having his 3rd horrendous shooting performance in a row for the Hawks summer league team. 1/12 tonight, and 10/48 through nearly 3 games.

Meanwhile, shock/horror/etc. Grayson Allen wrestles with Trae. Chrome won't let me post the direct link: Trae Young & Grayson Allen Skirmish / 2018 NBA Summer League - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXeSQMlrL8)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Trae Young having his 3rd horrendous shooting performance in a row for the Hawks summer league team. 1/12 tonight, and 10/48 through nearly 3 games.

Meanwhile, shock/horror/etc. Grayson Allen wrestles with Trae. Chrome won't let me post the direct link: Trae Young & Grayson Allen Skirmish / 2018 NBA Summer League - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXeSQMlrL8)

I was kinda hoping GA would just chokeslam him & end the horror. No such luck.

[miami_fan]

I was kinda hoping GA would just chokeslam him & end the horror. No such luck.

Blame the Warriors.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Blame the Warriors.

Heh. I can see that becoming the new "thanks Obama" phrase, now that you mention it.

[murrayyyyy]

Assuming the Melo to LA rumor will be true now?

[Gary Gorski]

I hope DeMarcus comes back 100%, he's fun to watch & at least half of the problems in Sacramento were due to the Kings organization, but people are freaking out about superteams when he signed in GS, Paul George re-signed with OKC & LeBron just signed for a 35 win team? Seems a bit misguided.

This. If DMC is healthy he's signing for huge dollars with the Lakers and everyone's pumped for GSW for LAL. While the rest of the league doesn't have the luxury of taking a total flier on Cousins the Warriors do - he can be a total zero and it makes no difference to them whereas anyone else it would be a waste of a much needed production spot.

For Cousins its the best possible thing - excellent chance to win a ring (and definitely to experience the playoffs at least once) and he's getting paid a few million to rehab and certainly not be rushed into playing. He's not going to have to prove himself as "the man" for an entire 82 game season to get one more massive payday - all he has to do is be able to play and have a few nice playoff moments where he looks like he did pre-injury and some team next year will throw a huge contract his way.

I don't see any healthy superstars in their prime being willing to take the MLE anytime soon - we might see more of what Malone and Payton did or what Dirk has been doing taking less money at the end but nobody is giving up hundreds of millions in guaranteed money to try and chase a ring on a superteam in their prime. This is a one off situation that happened because a team drafted amazingly well, a massive salary cap spike let them add the 2nd best player in the league to that core and a devastating injury left 29 other teams too scared and unable to take a flier rehabbing another all-star.

[cartman]

Gonna be weird seeing Tony Parker in an NBA uniform that isn't the Spurs.

[Brian Swartz]

Props to SloMo, who is going to be making almost $10M a year somewhere next season(4-year, $37M offer sheet signed with Memphis). That definitely wasn't in his projection when he came out of college. I'm also going to laugh if Melo joins Golden State just to troll the league.

[MrBug708]

Props to SloMo, who is going to be making almost $10M a year somewhere next season(4-year, $37M offer sheet signed with Memphis). That definitely wasn't in his projection when he came out of college. I'm also going to laugh if Melo joins Golden State just to troll the league.

Based on rising salaries, I'm surprised it's that low. But getting drafted by SA probably was the best thing that could happen to him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tyler Honeycutt dies following gunfire exchange with police (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24029399/tyler-honeycutt-dies-following-gunfire-exchange-police)

[Groundhog]

I have no idea why I find myself watching so many Summer League games, year after year.

[Chief Rum]

Tyler Honeycutt dies following gunfire exchange with police (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24029399/tyler-honeycutt-dies-following-gunfire-exchange-police)

Not that I have a plethora of fond Tyler Honeycutt memories from when he was in Westwood, but it is always so tragic when someone this young and talented ends up going out this way.

RIP

[albionmoonlight]

Love Basketball and love Lebron game...

That's a pretty relevant and legitimate comment. It makes me want to trust you. Certainly, you have established yourself as a human with similar interests to those of us on this message board.

[Kodos]

I just wish ben had given us something to click on, because I feel like I'm really clicking with him.

[Shkspr]

That's a pretty relevant and legitimate comment. It makes me want to trust you. Certainly, you have established yourself as a human with similar interests to those of us on this message board.

Yeah, that's great.

[Shkspr]

I just wish ben had given us something to click on, because I feel like I'm really clicking with him.

Don't agree with the previous comments.

[Eaglesfan27]

That's a pretty relevant and legitimate comment. It makes me want to trust you. Certainly, you have established yourself as a human with similar interests to those of us on this message board.

:D

[Chief Rum]

I just wish ben had given us something to click on, because I feel like I'm really clicking with him.

His candle blew out long before...
...his legend ever diiiiiiiiiid.

[BishopMVP]

It makes more sense for the Bulls to match it then the Kings to have offered it with all their guards, but that's a lot of money for Zach LaVine. I really hope the Kings go for Jabari Parker next & stay away from Marcus Smart.

Most surprising UFA left out there is Wayne Ellington. I'm sure at 31 he wants a multiyear deal, but he'd be a great fit for the Lakers, 76ers, Rockets, or really any team who needs shooting.

[Groundhog]

It's a lot of money to pay for the memory of pre-injury LaVine.

[stevew]

Shouldn't the Kings throw a big offer at capella? Even if it's just a 2 + 1, you basically gotta force the rockets to pay the tax.

[Groundhog]

Quietly optimistic about Sexton.

[Arles]

I've been enjoying the young Suns team - esp Ayton. In just 25 minutes or so in the last two games, he's been putting up 17-20 points and 10+ boards. He's also been fairly active on defense in terms of switching and guarding perimeter guys. This with the abysmal post passes by guards/wings in the Summer League and most teams still double teaming him.

[Ksyrup]

I was impressed with the bit of Chris Chiozza I saw last night for the Wizards.

[Groundhog]

I've been enjoying the young Suns team - esp Ayton. In just 25 minutes or so in the last two games, he's been putting up 17-20 points and 10+ boards. He's also been fairly active on defense in terms of switching and guarding perimeter guys. This with the abysmal post passes by guards/wings in the Summer League and most teams still double teaming him.

What's your thoughts on Bender? I didn't catch the Magic game where he looks like he played OK, but otherwise definitely hasn't looked like a 3rd year guy from the games I did see.

The Kings/Suns game a few days ago was hilariously bad re: entry passes. Both Ayton and Bagley would get decent position in the post only to have the entry pass thrown straight to the defender. Ayton has looked good, but it's hard to judge bigs with the lack of quality pick and roll play with the guards. Ayton looks like he has good touch around the hoop, but will be interesting to see during the regular season when there's some better spacing, although who are the Suns running at PG this year?

[Arles]

Bender is a project, he's still just 20 (the second youngest guy on the team after Ayton). The hope is Igor can work with him and help him develop. He has a lot of the physical gifts, but hasn't put it all together yet. This is a big year for him, if he doesn't show improvement - he may be gone.

I don't think the organization has a ton of faith in Bender and Chriss. They've added Ariza, Josh Jackson, Bridges and resigned TJ Warren over the past two seasons. That tells me they think maybe one of the two will pan out. Personally, I think Chriss is useless and should be cut/traded now - but I think Bender has a chance to get it.

At PG, they are putting a lot of hope into Brandon Knight. He's completely healthy (finally) and has been working with the team in Summer League. He only has two years left (and is still just 26), so I think their hope is either he gets back to a % of what he was in Milwaukee or completely flames out and they can move him as an expiring next year. Either way, I think he's just a placeholder until Okobo gets some experience - they seem to really love him. I also wouldn't be surprised if Shaq Harrison makes the roster and ends up getting some time there if Knight struggles.

The hope is for the team to win 30-40 games and show some improvement this year. They will have around $42 mil in salary expiring after this season and should be able to sign 1 fairly big FA next offseason. So, 19/20 is when they expect to finally push for a playoff spot.

[BishopMVP]

Summer League is the best. The announcers have compared Mitchell Robinson to Marcus Camby, Hassan Whiteside (without the issues), and Anthony freaking Davis this quarter. Meanwhile the Knicks are down 16 to a Celtics team that started 6'7 Jarell Eddie at center since Robert Williams is still out.

Overall for the Celtics, quite frustrating how Williams start has gone. The coaches are saying some nice things which are being drowned out by the noise of him sleeping through calls & a flight, but it would've been nice to see him play more than 6 minutes before having a knee contusion so I could get super hyped. Semi Ojeleye showing enough offensive growth & confidence he deserves some rotation minutes, though he may not consistently get them to start the season (unless Marcus Smart signs an offer sheet elsewhere we don't match). Injuries always happen though, and he's got that positional versatility that helps. Jabari Bird looking good too, and I really hope they cut Abdel Nader & give Bird roster spot #14/15. Yabusele showing a little growth across the board too & has that big man 3&D skill set, but I still think he's (at least) a season away from being able to play minutes vs real NBA teams. Kadeem Allen was trash coming out of Arizona & has shown nothing to change my mind in 2 years of summer league/D-League action.

[Groundhog]

Poor ole DeRozan, though he'd finally escape Playoff LeBron...

[stevew]

Might be the greatest move of Pops career. Dump a guy for nearly full value and send him to probably the least desirable non Cleveland non Orlando destination.

[bhlloy]

I'm not sure I follow what Toronto has done here - DeRozan might be a very flawed star, but he'd embraced playing in Toronto and even if you think he was overpaid he still surely had way more value in a trade than getting an unmotivated Kawhi Leonard for one year who wants to be on the west coast and is almost certain to leave for nothing next offseason.

Or put another way, Toronto is definitely more talented on paper, but does anyone think this is enough to get them out of the east this year?

[BishopMVP]

I'm not sure I follow what Toronto has done here - DeRozan might be a very flawed star, but he'd embraced playing in Toronto and even if you think he was overpaid he still surely had way more value in a trade than getting an unmotivated Kawhi Leonard for one year who wants to be on the west coast and is almost certain to leave for nothing next offseason.

Or put another way, Toronto is definitely more talented on paper, but does anyone think this is enough to get them out of the east this year?(Healthy, motivated) Kawhi can be the best player on a championship team while Derozan can't.

Toronto had an inflection point coming up after next season when Kyle Lowry (who will be 33 then), and Serge Ibaka (who will be 30 then), will have their contracts expire and 30 year old Demar Derozan (who is actually a year older than Kawhi) has a player option he'll probably decline and look to sign a long term max deal. Why not swing for the fences instead of running back a team that probably peaks in the ECF or losing in the eastern semi's? Also, the Paul George example probably gives more hope to the Raptors that they can convince Kawhi to re-sign there.

But really I just think you're massively underrating the difference between (healthy, motivated) Kawhi & Demar Derozan.Might be the greatest move of Pops career. Dump a guy for nearly full value and send him to probably the least desirable non Cleveland non Orlando destination.Nah, drafting Tim Duncan is still the best move of his career. :) And I really don't think Toronto is nearly as bad as you think.

[bhlloy]

Sure, but what are the chances Toronto ever sees healthy and motivated Kawhi? And even if they do, are they good enough to take advantage of it in the one season he's around?

PG13 is an interesting comp, but I don't remember him basically coming out and saying he'd only sign in LA and there was zero chance he would resign with his new team in the hours after the deal was announced.

[nilodor]

As a Raptors fan I'm not very happy with this move. We actually had a borderline star/perennial all-star want to stay in Toronto. Not only want to stay, but embrace the country and the team. I understand why for basketball reasons this trade was made. Your ceiling with Kawhi is higher, if he bolts, you clean up your cap earlier in a year where your young guys may be ready to step up. I get all that. But from a personal perspective this sucks. Winning championships are hard, only 1 of 30 teams will do so. This trade gives the Raptors a <5% chance at winning the finals? Maybe a 25% chance of getting there? Compared to a <1% chance of winning and maybe a 5% chance of getting there? I'd rather ride with the guy who wants to be here, committed to be here, even if we never make the finals, than take a shot at being great with a guy who doesn't seem to want to be here by giving up on one who does. Ringzzz aren't everything. It kinda feels like we broke up with our highschool sweetheart because a pretty lady smiled at us on the subway.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It kinda feels like we broke up with our highschool sweetheart because a pretty lady smiled at us on the subway.

In this case, the hooker didn't really smile at you, she just said a night with you was better than the asshole she was with AND said that tomorrow she gon' find herself a REAL man.

[nilodor]

In this case, the hooker didn't really smile at you, she just said a night with you was better than the asshole she was with AND said that tomorrow she gon' find herself a REAL man.

That's better than the analogy in my head where you saw a pretty girl on the subway, dumped your sweetheart and then it got too dark so, yes, your analogy is better.

[BishopMVP]

Sure, but what are the chances Toronto ever sees healthy and motivated Kawhi? And even if they do, are they good enough to take advantage of it in the one season he's around?

PG13 is an interesting comp, but I don't remember him basically coming out and saying he'd only sign in LA and there was zero chance he would resign with his new team in the hours after the deal was announced.Maybe. But like how the Paul George to LA rumors were always from "his camp" so far all I've seen is one tweet from Chris Haynes saying a league source says Kawhi doesn't want to be in Toronto. Considering how inscrutable Kawhi's mindset has been the past year+ I'll wait to see something more concrete before deciding there's zero chance he'll re-sign. (Also, Zach Lowe brings up the point that if the Raptors really get that feeling they can try to flip him to the Lakers or Clippers mid-season. You won't get a king's ransom, but you could add another interesting young guy or two like Kuzma, Josh Hart, Montrezl Harrell, Jerome Robinson or maybe even Lonzo or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander to add to their group of frisky young players.)

In that vein, I think the Raptors were already considering moving on from the Lowry/DeRozan "core" and weren't looking forward to potentially giving 30 year old DeRozan a max contract in the summer of 2020 or an extension this upcoming one. Even for good players like Blake Griffin or John Wall those max extensions look like albatrosses.As a Raptors fan I'm not very happy with this move. We actually had a borderline star/perennial all-star want to stay in Toronto. Not only want to stay, but embrace the country and the team. I understand why for basketball reasons this trade was made. Your ceiling with Kawhi is higher, if he bolts, you clean up your cap earlier in a year where your young guys may be ready to step up. I get all that. But from a personal perspective this sucks. Winning championships are hard, only 1 of 30 teams will do so. This trade gives the Raptors a <5% chance at winning the finals? Maybe a 25% chance of getting there? Compared to a <1% chance of winning and maybe a 5% chance of getting there? I'd rather ride with the guy who wants to be here, committed to be here, even if we never make the finals, than take a shot at being great with a guy who doesn't seem to want to be here by giving up on one who does. Ringzzz aren't everything. It kinda feels like we broke up with our highschool sweetheart because a pretty lady smiled at us on the subway.I hear you on this, but on the flip side the Celtics traded a loveable All-Star in IT for the more talented but mercurial Kyrie Irving and I got over it pretty quickly, despite the media still insinuating Kyrie won't re-sign and he'll leave for the Knicks next summer ( :lol: )

If Kawhi keeps pulling the same BS he has in SA for the last year fans might still hate him, but even if he doesn't commit as long as he shows up and plays hard I think it'll be easy to root for him. He's an immensely likable player on the court - if Raptors fans think OG Anunoby or Kyle Lowry are exciting on ball perimeter defenders...

[nilodor]

I hear you on this, but on the flip side the Celtics traded a loveable All-Star in IT for the more talented but mercurial Kyrie Irving and I got over it pretty quickly, despite the media still insinuating Kyrie won't re-sign and he'll leave for the Knicks next summer ( :lol: )

If Kawhi keeps pulling the same BS he has in SA for the last year fans might still hate him, but even if he doesn't commit as long as he shows up and plays hard I think it'll be easy to root for him. He's an immensely likable player on the court - if Raptors fans think OG Anunoby or Kyle Lowry are exciting on ball perimeter defenders...

I think it's a bit different than moving on from IT because he was only there for 1 year. We saw DeMar grow from a raw but talented athlete into a top 20ish player in the league. The best players we had before him, Vince, whined his was out, TMac, same deal, Bosh, left first chance he could. DeMar is the first who stayed. Imagine if Parish left, then Bird left, then McHale left all at their first chance, then Pierce comes around, want to stay and you send him off for a Garnett or someone like that. (I get that your guys are way better than who the Raptors have lost but bare with me...).

I have no doubt that if Leonard is engaged I'm going to love watching him play, I don't think it will change the way I feel.

[Johnny93g]

Good for the Raptors. Take a shot!!!

Can't believe a city like Toronto coming off 59 wins is referred to as one of the least desirable places in the NBA. Ignorance....

[Johnny93g]

I think it's a bit different than moving on from IT because he was only there for 1 year. We saw DeMar grow from a raw but talented athlete into a top 20ish player in the league. The best players we had before him, Vince, whined his was out, TMac, same deal, Bosh, left first chance he could. DeMar is the first who stayed. Imagine if Parish left, then Bird left, then McHale left all at their first chance, then Pierce comes around, want to stay and you send him off for a Garnett or someone like that. (I get that your guys are way better than who the Raptors have lost but bare with me...).

I have no doubt that if Leonard is engaged I'm going to love watching him play, I don't think it will change the way I feel.

We saw what a Derozan led team can do. Frankly, if that's good enough, then lets be losers all our lives. The Raptors are actually taking a shot to be more. Will it work, who knows, but good pn them for not being satisfied!

[BishopMVP]

I think it's a bit different than moving on from IT because he was only there for 1 year. We saw DeMar grow from a raw but talented athlete into a top 20ish player in the league. The best players we had before him, Vince, whined his was out, TMac, same deal, Bosh, left first chance he could. DeMar is the first who stayed. Imagine if Parish left, then Bird left, then McHale left all at their first chance, then Pierce comes around, want to stay and you send him off for a Garnett or someone like that. (I get that your guys are way better than who the Raptors have lost but bare with me...).

I have no doubt that if Leonard is engaged I'm going to love watching him play, I don't think it will change the way I feel.Isaiah was here for 2.5 seasons/3 playoff runs & grew from afterthought/6th man to someone genuinely in the MVP discussion, so I think the growth was there, but yes he didn't go through free agency & we didn't have the history of star players wanting out. But Kawhi Leonard is so much better than DeRozan (and Kyrie!) and gives Toronto a real chance to win the NBA championship they didn't have with DeRozan. And while I like Poeltl some too, you didn't even have to give up Anunoby or Siakam or a real 1st round pick! And you got Danny Green too!

[CU Tiger]

Can't believe a city like Toronto coming off 59 wins is referred to as one of the least desirable places in the NBA. Ignorance....


Isnt the effective income tax rate almost triple for Toronto players compared to any other NBA city?

[Groundhog]

I'm not even sure Kawhi is ever pictured in a Raptors jersey, let alone plays a healthy/motivated year in Toronto.

[MrBug708]

Good for the Raptors. Take a shot!!!

Can't believe a city like Toronto coming off 59 wins is referred to as one of the least desirable places in the NBA. Ignorance....

It has nothing to do with the city itself, Toronto is fine. Nobody really wants to play for the Padres, but San Diego is a fantastic place to live. I think even the southerners who would never leave the south for California, could manage some happiness there :)

[nilodor]

Isnt the effective income tax rate almost triple for Toronto players compared to any other NBA city?

Except you get paid in US dollars and a lot goods/services are pretty close in numeric value to the US. Except books, fuck whoever sets prices for books.

[Fidatelo]

Except you get paid in US dollars and a lot goods/services are pretty close in numeric value to the US. Except books, fuck whoever sets prices for books.

The exchange rate is only meaningful if you actually spend most of your time and (importantly) money there. I don't get the impression most pro athletes do either when they play in Canada (sure, there are exceptions). They likely rent (or buy-to-eventually-sell) fully-furnished places, lease cars for dirt cheap by doing ad spots for a dealership, shop for luxury items in destination cities while on the road (which is 50% of the time), live and vacation abroad in the offseason, etc. I'd be far more concerned about taxes than exchange rate if I was in their shoes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd be far more concerned about taxes than exchange rate if I was in their shoes.

Yes, but you're also pretty likely to be smarter than the average NBA player.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gotta love the "defense, we talking 'bout DEFENSE?" (paraphrasing) speech by Jabari Parker.

Have fun with that Chi-town, have fun with that.

[BishopMVP]

Gotta love the "defense, we talking 'bout DEFENSE?" (paraphrasing) speech by Jabari Parker.

Have fun with that Chi-town, have fun with that.If you're looking to be mildly exciting to the casual fan and hope your 2 good young bigs develop while also tanking, then paying $40m/y to Zach Lavine & Jabari Parker makes perfect sense! I don't think that front office is that smart though.[“Well, I don’t know I just stick to my strengths,” Parker said. “Look at everybody in the league. They don’t pay players to play defense. There’s only two players, historically, who play defense. I’m not gonna say that I won’t, but to say that’s a weakness is like saying that’s everybody’s weakness. I’ve scored 30s and 20s off of guys who say they try to play defense.”PS I'm just really curious who the two players are who do play defense ;)

Btw, speaking of restricted free agents, Marcus Smart re-signing with the Celtics for 4/$52 (no options). Some people think it's a small overpay, but I have no problem with it, especially when RFA's who don't play defense like Parker and Lavine just got $20m/y offers. I don't think all 3 of Smart/Kyrie/Rozier are on the Celtics after this coming season, and this gives them some certainty if Kyrie does want to sign elsewhere or Rozier gets a monster offer sheet in a much better market for RFA's, or a tradeable asset if Rozier wants to re-sign at a reasonable number or a superstar big man (a.k.a. AD) does become available.

Good chance the Celtics will trade Marcus Morris now to avoid going into the luxury tax. Not that this years tax bill would matter, but pushing a potential repeater tax bill back a year to 2022 could save a ton of money down the road. Abdel Nader also should be (/needs to be!) gone by August 1, and after his summer league performance Jabari Bird is an interesting player. If I was the Hawks or the Kings I'd be willing to toss him a 3 year offer at $3-4m/y or so & dare the Celtics to go over the tax line and match, but I doubt those franchises are smart enough to do that.

[BishopMVP]

Melo traded to the Hawks with a 1st round pick in a paper move for Dennis Schroder (and some other flotsam involved.) Saves the Thunder like $100 million in salary/repeater tax & is better than them buying him out/stretching him. Hawks will do the buy out, sounds like Melo to the Rockets is most likely.

Thunder actually seem happy to get Dennis Schroder... I don't get it. It's Reggie Jackson 2.0 except he's also facing a felony assault & battery charge. I know the Thunder want another ballhandler next to Westbrook, but nothing I've seen from Schroder indicates he'll be happy playing second fiddle when it matters.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Melo traded to the Hawks with a 1st round pick in a paper move for Dennis Schroder (and some other flotsam involved.) Saves the Thunder like $100 million in salary/repeater tax & is better than them buying him out/stretching him. Hawks will do the buy out, sounds like Melo to the Rockets is most likely.

Thunder actually seem happy to get Dennis Schroder... I don't get it. It's Reggie Jackson 2.0 except he's also facing a felony assault & battery charge. I know the Thunder want another ballhandler next to Westbrook, but nothing I've seen from Schroder indicates he'll be happy playing second fiddle when it matters.

Indeed, his insistence on being "the guy" is what ultimately led to Jeff Teague being sent out (well, that & Teague's impending salary escalation at the time).

I can't imagine him not being an issue in the OKC lockerroom before the season is done, a deadline flip wouldn't surprise me in the slightest (if anybody is willing to take on the contract)

[bhlloy]

I can't understand why the Rockets (or anyone) are falling over themselves to get Melo once he's cut far more than I don't understand why the Thunder are willing to take a chance on Schroeder.

A guy who needed 15 shots a game to get 16 points last year and was a pretty significant negative on both ends of the floor. What could possibly go wrong with that>

[weegeebored]

If you're looking to be mildly exciting to the casual fan and hope your 2 good young bigs develop while also tanking, then paying $40m/y to Zach Lavine & Jabari Parker makes perfect sense! I don't think that front office is that smart though.[PS I'm just really curious who the two players are who do play defense ;)GarPax belong on the GM list that includes Elgin Baylor and Isiah Thomas. Paxson especially because he has been incompetent for a much longer time.

[Groundhog]

I can't understand why the Rockets (or anyone) are falling over themselves to get Melo once he's cut far more than I don't understand why the Thunder are willing to take a chance on Schroeder.

A guy who needed 15 shots a game to get 16 points last year and was a pretty significant negative on both ends of the floor. What could possibly go wrong with that>

Also don't understand it. Downgrade from Ariza at this stage - hell, I think Ennis should be starting over him, even.

[miami_fan]

I understand the doubt from everyone including myself. That being said, I get the intrigue with Carmelo if I am the Rockets. I trust D'Antoni's offensive mind more than I trust Billy Donovan's. I trust Harden and Paul to get the ball to Melo in his spots more than I trust Westbrook and George. Fianlly, I like whatever Melo gives me in those circumstances at the salary I sign him to than I do the $27 mil he was getting in OKC. That last part is the key, especially if it is a one year deal.

[miami_fan]

The Lakers offseason wheeling and dealing continues!

Shams is reporting that they have agreed to a deal with... MICHAEL BEASLEY!

This news made me smile.

[Groundhog]

Next signing feels like it might be Delonte West?

[Atocep]

The NBA has never needed a Hard Knocks-like show more than it does right now.

[JPhillips]

Kevin Love adds four years and 120 million to his Cavs deal. I guess the Cavs don't believe they stink now.

But they do.

[stevew]

Wade offered 8.3m per in China after taxes. Probably would be great for his Shoe deal as well(Chinese company)

[stevew]

Cavs are only 1 player away from being a Finals team again. ;)

[stevew]

Next signing feels like it might be Delonte West?

LeBron’s mom already rode west.

[BishopMVP]

Kevin Love adds four years and 120 million to his Cavs deal. I guess the Cavs don't believe they stink now.

But they do.If the Cavs make the playoffs as the 8th seed in the East (and lose their 2019 top-10 protected 1st as a result) I think Dan Gilbert will legitimately think he proved to LeBron that Cleveland can win without him. What an egomaniac.

[albionmoonlight]

Rumors out now that Kobe wants to come back to play with LeBron.

It's probably not true, but I really hope it's true. Entertainment TV at its finest.

[stevew]

Hot take alert


Overseas Elite probably would not be the worst team in the NBA

[Groundhog]

Hot take alert


Overseas Elite probably would not be the worst team in the NBA

I was always surprised Pargo didn't stick in the NBA, but I guess he was in that tier where he could earn 2/3 times more in Europe than what NBA teams were probably throwing at him.

[Atocep]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This summer, centers DeMarcus Cousins, Brook Lopez, Nerlens Noel, Greg Monroe and JaVale McGee have signed for a combined total of:<br>$17 million<br><br>In 2016, Timofey Mozgov, Joakim Noah, Ian Mahimi, Meyers Leonard, Bismack Biyomobo &amp; Miles Plumlee signed for a total of:<br>$365 million</p>&mdash; Tommy Beer (@TommyBeer) <a href="https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1026553041632223232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Centers are the new Running Backs.

[jbergey22]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This summer, centers DeMarcus Cousins, Brook Lopez, Nerlens Noel, Greg Monroe and JaVale McGee have signed for a combined total of:<br>$17 million<br><br>In 2016, Timofey Mozgov, Joakim Noah, Ian Mahimi, Meyers Leonard, Bismack Biyomobo &amp; Miles Plumlee signed for a total of:<br>$365 million</p>&mdash; Tommy Beer (@TommyBeer) <a href="https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1026553041632223232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Centers are the new Running Backs.

Kind of tells a story in that the NBA is in need of a Bill James type to help these front offices locate value. Amazing how much wasted money in in them 2016 contracts.

[Groundhog]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This summer, centers DeMarcus Cousins, Brook Lopez, Nerlens Noel, Greg Monroe and JaVale McGee have signed for a combined total of:<br>$17 million<br><br>In 2016, Timofey Mozgov, Joakim Noah, Ian Mahimi, Meyers Leonard, Bismack Biyomobo &amp; Miles Plumlee signed for a total of:<br>$365 million</p>&mdash; Tommy Beer (@TommyBeer) <a href="https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1026553041632223232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Centers are the new Running Backs.

It's an interesting bit of info, but to be fair how many of those deals looked like good ideas even when ink was put to paper? It also leaves out Capella who is a better indicator of where the league is going re: bigs - and even Cousins is an outlier of those included considering his injury.

[stevew]

Bunch of rule changes. Shot clock reset to 14 secs after offensive rebounds sounds like a good change

[Groundhog]

Bunch of rule changes. Shot clock reset to 14 secs after offensive rebounds sounds like a good change

It’s a good rule. FIBA been doing it for awhile.

[stevew]

I like the FIBA goaltending rule. Hopefully that makes it here.

[miami_fan]

I really enjoyed reading Jackie MacMullan's series on mental health in the NBA. Hopefully the NBA and other leagues continues to make progress in helping the players who are suffering from mental health issues.

[miami_fan]

Former Sacramento Kings executive Jeffrey David under federal investigation for alleged embezzlement (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24526134/former-sacramento-kings-executive-jeffrey-david-federal-investigation-alleged-embezzlement)

If you are like me and had no idea why David Stern appointed this guy to be the Kings' chief revenue officer, here is a local article.

Sacramento Kings owners stunned by allegations against former exec | The Sacramento Bee (https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article217590690.html)

[Lathum]

Just saw on Twitter a girl I had a class with and did some partner work with at UW won a WNBA championship. Very cool stuff!

[miami_fan]

Philadelphia 76ers tap Elton Brand for vacant GM role (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24726403/philadelphia-76ers-tap-elton-brand-vacant-gm-role)

Good for Elton Brand but this feels like he got an early copy of DDS: Pro Basketball 19.

[jbergey22]

Jimmy Butler requesting a trade out of Minnesota. Dont let the door hit ya on the way out. I am sure Towns will be gone soon as well. Sucks to be a smaller market NBA GM. You are a feeder for the big markets.

[Gary Gorski]

Philadelphia 76ers tap Elton Brand for vacant GM role (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24726403/philadelphia-76ers-tap-elton-brand-vacant-gm-role)

Good for Elton Brand but this feels like he got an early copy of DDS: Pro Basketball 19.

Dammit I thought that cable tech who was here fixing my internet looked familiar. I had no idea it was Elton Brand downloading DDS:PB19!

[miami_fan]

Insert all the caveats about Butler being a great player here.

That being said, who exactly can Butler play with and who can he play for? Given his tenure in Minnesota, I don't think he can play with the young rosters that are the Nets and the Knicks. I think he can play with the current Clipper roster but if Kawhi goes to the Clippers, can those two work together as both seemed to want to be the top dog? Same for if Kyie/KD goes to the Knicks.

What is his perfect situation?

[GoldenCrest Games]

What is his perfect situation?

All he needs is a team with Jimmy Butler, and 4 guys who give Jimmy Butler the ball.

[stevew]

Anthony Davis signed with Klutch. Next step is to force a trade out of New Orleans

[korme]

Insert all the caveats about Butler being a great player here.

That being said, who exactly can Butler play with and who can he play for? Given his tenure in Minnesota, I don't think he can play with the young rosters that are the Nets and the Knicks. I think he can play with the current Clipper roster but if Kawhi goes to the Clippers, can those two work together as both seemed to want to be the top dog? Same for if Kyie/KD goes to the Knicks.

What is his perfect situation?

Butler is the perfect 2nd or 3rd banana on a championship roster. He doesn't need the ball, and plays A+ defense. Yet you won't get far if he's your #1. He's Paul George. This is why I feel dumbfounded that Miami is going aftr him so hard, unless they have a plan in place this summer I'm not ready for.

[miami_fan]

I think the plan for the Heat would be to get out of some of the mediocre players that they have on the roster right now. If they could get rid of say Whiteside, Tyler Johnson and Dion Waiters for Butler, that would be a great* thing.


* Great meaning the league decided to change all the rules specifically for the Heat that forced that trade to happen;)

[Brian Swartz]

Tristan Thompson says the Cavs are still the team to beat in the East. I'm all for players being confident, but good luck with that.

[RainMaker]

Butler is the perfect 2nd or 3rd banana on a championship roster. He doesn't need the ball, and plays A+ defense. Yet you won't get far if he's your #1. He's Paul George. This is why I feel dumbfounded that Miami is going aftr him so hard, unless they have a plan in place this summer I'm not ready for.

He'd have to change his offensive game a bit. He's still heavy on the iso stuff and a ball stopper. A lot more Carmelo to his game than Paul George in my opinion.

[BishopMVP]

He'd have to change his offensive game a bit. He's still heavy on the iso stuff and a ball stopper. A lot more Carmelo to his game than Paul George in my opinion.Yep. We're not talking the player Jimmy Butler looked like he was developing into in 2014, we're talking about the one who prefers to run a ball stopping iso-heavy one (granted Thibodeau isn't the best offensive coach), that has also shown problems playing with a superstar and helping develop young guys, and indicated with his trade list he cares more about being the alpha dog in a big market than playing for a winner.

You really think the guy who just put 3 of the NY/LA teams on his trade lists but not LeBron's is accepting that he could/should be a 2nd banana on a championship team?

PS there is 0.0% chance Kyrie goes to the Knicks, and I still believe the real on court problem in Minnesota wasn't KAT/Butler, it was giving Andrew Wiggins his max extension before he showed any willingness to try on defense.

[korme]

Tristan Thompson says the Cavs are still the team to beat in the East. I'm all for players being confident, but good luck with that.

This is when the doctor tells Tristan he has been in a coma for 3 months and has some news he'd like to share

[stevew]

It's pretty hard to trade Butler with the Luxury tax. I think the Kings are the only team with cap space, so they would need to be tipped out to make a trade

[stevew]

Tristan Thompson says the Cavs are still the team to beat in the East. I'm all for players being confident, but good luck with that.

He also picked the ugliest Kardashian sister, so his judgement is questionable.

[Groundhog]

This is when the doctor tells Tristan he has been in a coma for 3 months and has some news he'd like to share

3 months? I think it's been about 12, based on last season.

[Kodos]

He also picked the ugliest Kardashian sister, so his judgement is questionable.

Choosing any Kardashian sister is evidence of being totally braindead.

[Atocep]

Tristan Thompson says the Cavs are still the team to beat in the East. I'm all for players being confident, but good luck with that.

The last time the Cavs made the playoffs without Lebron they were coached by Mike Fratello, their team leader in win shares was Wesley Person, their leading scorer was Shawn Kemp, and their rookie class was Brevin Knight, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cedric Henderson, and Derek Anderson.


EDIT: Wrong Knight

[Groundhog]

The last time the Cavs made the playoffs without Lebron they were coached by Mike Fratello, their team leader in win shares was Wesley Person, their leading scorer was Shawn Kemp, and their rookie class was Brandon Knight, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cedric Henderson, and Derek Anderson.

This makes me nostalgic. This was when watching NBA over here became much easier to do, as well as following boxscores online in my school library, and was exactly the period of time when I became a proper Cavs fan. Future looked so bright, and Cedric Henderson looked like a big time 2nd round steal before he somehow managed to get progressively worse every year in the league.

[miami_fan]

Bob Voulgaris hired as Dallas Mavericks' director of quantitative research and development (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24897221/bob-voulgaris-hired-dallas-mavericks-director-quantitative-research-development)

[miami_fan]

Phoenix Suns fire GM Ryan McDonough (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24931420/phoenix-suns-fire-gm-ryan-mcdonough)

Thanks to Robert Sarver, we now get a chance to have a real life answer to this question: Which is better? Firing your head coach three games into the regular season or firing your GM the week before the regular season.

[Arles]

Honestly, he should have been fired after the season. He's pissed away some of the Suns assets and made some awful top 10 picks (Len, Chriss, Bender). The only reason they have some talent is because he's done his own half-ass version of "the process" and stunk for 4 seasons. But, firing him now doesn't make a ton of sense. The feeling here in Phoenix was that Sarver gave him until the start of the season to field a better roster and the disaster that is the Suns PG spot finally pushed Sarver to the brink. We will see who his replacement is - hopefully the Suns won't repeat the "no experience" disaster hires of Hunter, Earl Watson and McDonough. But, given their track record, I would expect them to hire James Jones... :banghead:

[BishopMVP]

Honestly, he should have been fired after the season. He's pissed away some of the Suns assets and made some awful top 10 picks (Len, Chriss, Bender). The only reason they have some talent is because he's done his own half-ass version of "the process" and stunk for 4 seasons. But, firing him now doesn't make a ton of sense. The feeling here in Phoenix was that Sarver gave him until the start of the season to field a better roster and the disaster that is the Suns PG spot finally pushed Sarver to the brink.Assuming no one thought Elfrid Payton was the answer he's basically being fired for not overpaying in draft picks (in a trade) or contracts (to an RFA) for a backup PG who might be good enough to start, on a team that won't make the playoffs & needs to focus on developing Ayton/Jackson & even Booker still, which is why having Booker play a little out of position at PG for parts of games this year wouldn't be the worst thing long term. It's even funnier considering the top guy rumored to be on the trade market (Bledsoe) and top UFA PG (IT) would likely not be interested in returning to Phoenix. But bad owners stay bad owners.

With Kyrie's comments about re-signing the Celtics are likely more open to trading Rozier now, so if the new Suns committee wants to send us an unprotected 2019 or 2020 first maybe we can work something out ;)

[Arles]

I think it's more that he basically gave away Brandon Knight and did nothing to bring in another point guard in FA or trade. Knight is nothing special, but he atleast has the potential to be a stop-gap guard. What's funny is the Knight situation is probably what cost him his job. He gave IT away to Boston so that he could use the Lakers pick to obtain Knight. Then, he gave Knight a big extension right before he blew out his knee. I think if the Suns did any of the following, he still has a job:

1. Kept Knight (and sold Sarver on him for this year)
2. Signed Fred VanVleet, Avery Bradley, Tony Parker, Yogi Ferrell or any other pro PG available for between $2 mil and $9 mil (on a 2-year deal).
3. Traded for Beverly, Schroder, Lowry, Kemba Walker, George Hill or one of the litany of available PGs.

Instead, McDonough decided to start the season with some combo of Shaq Harrison, Isaiah Canaan and the 20-year old french pick (Okobo). With the investment the Suns have in their front court (Ayton, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Bender and Bridges), I don't think Sarver liked the poo poo platter at point to compliment Booker. Ryan was pretty much on his last gasp after the past two offseasons that saw the team get worse. I think he was content on keeping this ponzi scheme going as long as he could - but Phoenix was getting sick of missing the playoffs for 7 straight seasons and wanted to see the team start improving. I know it's hard to believe, but 8 years ago the Suns were the 4th most winning team in NBA history. Losing for almost a decade is tough for this fanbase.

[Lathum]

Thinking about dumping around $5000 into some team total futures. Any suggestions?

[GoldenCrest Games]

Thinking about dumping around $5000 into some team total futures. Any suggestions?

Not the Timberwolves, that's for sure. :(

[Calis]

Where do we stand on Jimmy Butler now?

Reading about the antics today and initially thought what an ass, but the more I read it sounds sort of awesome. I like that rather than just sitting out, he went..dominated, and was vocal about it. I mean, it is a great story but I don't know if the reasoning behind it is valid at all.

Is this guy a diva? Or is he just completely hellbent on competing and has zero patience for people not like that? Or both?

[miami_fan]

Where do we stand on Jimmy Butler now?

Reading about the antics today and initially thought what an ass, but the more I read it sounds sort of awesome. I like that rather than just sitting out, he went..dominated, and was vocal about it. I mean, it is a great story but I don't know if the reasoning behind it is valid at all.

Is this guy a diva? Or is he just completely hellbent on competing and has zero patience for people not like that? Or both?

Both?

I mean isn't he the guy who:

1. did not want to go through the pains of rebuilding with the Bulls and was enough of a malcontent that they had to trade him.

2. went to a team with two overall #1 picks and could not get them past the first round as leader guy and is once again trying to force his way out of town.

3. is reportedly trying to make his way to a team with very little chance of winning (Heat or Clippers) but can pay him the max immediately and would be better for his brand.

I am not saying that the above is a fair representation of Butler. I am saying it could be. I am also saying a guy like Paul George (fellow all NBA'er in 2018) got ripped for less.

[stevew]

Supposedly there was an NBA practice where Andrew Bynum shot the ball at the wrong basket every single time

[GoldenCrest Games]

Where do we stand on Jimmy Butler now?



I'm a bigtime Wolves fan, and Jimmy Butler was the greatest thing to happen to this team since the KG/Marbury era. Sad to see it end this way.

If we had a halfway competent owner, and a coach/GM who didn't go out of his way to be an ass, maybe we could have turned this roster into something. Now, we have to watch a promising team turn into the league laughing stock again. :banghead:

[Arles]

3. is reportedly trying to make his way to a team with very little chance of winning (Heat or Clippers) but can pay him the max immediately and would be better for his brand.
You put Butler on Miami and that team is the 4 or 5-seed in the east. So, I'm not sure having "very little chance of winning" is correct. I mean, they were a 6-seed last year without him and the Cavs should fall out. With the Clippers, I agree - but not with Miami. Adding Butler puts them right along side the Bucks and Pacers in the hunt for the 4-seed.

[miami_fan]

You put Butler on Miami and that team is the 4 or 5-seed in the east. So, I'm not sure having "very little chance of winning" is correct. I mean, they were a 6-seed last year without him and the Cavs should fall out. With the Clippers, I agree - but not with Miami. Adding Butler puts them right along side the Bucks and Pacers in the hunt for the 4-seed.

I meant winning the conference. Without his injury, he was in the hunt for a 4 seed with the Wolves last year and that was not good enough. Again, it goes back to my earlier question about what is the right situation for him.

I am not against him going to the Heat. But given his reported issues with some of his teammates, I do have to be realistic about the team he would be going to though. Is a team with Jimmy Butler and a paid Hassan Whiteside be that much different chemistry wise than a team with Butler and a paid KAT? Butler and a paid Dion Waiters combo vs Butler and Wiggins? I don't know.

[stevew]

This Jimmy Butler story is Amazing by the way.


Not quite as heartwarming as Jimmer scoring 41 points vs somebody's 3rd team.

[Arles]

I meant winning the conference. Without his injury, he was in the hunt for a 4 seed with the Wolves last year and that was not good enough. Again, it goes back to my earlier question about what is the right situation for him.

I am not against him going to the Heat. But given his reported issues with some of his teammates, I do have to be realistic about the team he would be going to though. Is a team with Jimmy Butler and a paid Hassan Whiteside be that much different chemistry wise than a team with Butler and a paid KAT? Butler and a paid Dion Waiters combo vs Butler and Wiggins? I don't know.
Yeah, but in the East you have a chance. Put last year's Wolves in the East and they are the #3 seed (even with Butler's injury). Dragic, Butler, Whiteside and a few of their young forwards are a nice starting point for an East team - and that's not even factoring in Riley next offseason. People need to understand just how tilted the league is to the West right now. The Nuggets or Jazz would be a 2 or 3 seed in the East and they will be fighting for a playoff spot in the West. It's a different world with all the talent out west. If you look at the top 15 players, 12 are in the West (Lebron, Durant, Davis, Harden, Steph, Russ, Paul, Lillard, Jokic, George, Green, and your choice of KAT/Klay). Only Giannis, Embiid and maybe Kawhi (if he's healthy) would crack that list. Butler immediately becomes top 5 in East if he goes there. He wouldn't even be top 10 in the West.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Communication is key to so many things. Someone told Butler that champions had character & the poor dumb bastard thought they said "had to BE a character"

Hopefully today's stunt gets him suspended & cools interest in him from any sane organization, let the little bitch sit for a year with no cash and (probably more painful) no attention.

If karma is a real thing, he'll blow both knees walking across the street as a free agent looking for work.

[Groundhog]

My only problem with hating on Butler is that I suspect he's 100% right with his judgement on the rest of his Minny teammates. Butler isn't a top tier guy, but he wants to win, and I don't think guys like KAT/Wiggins in particular want it nearly as bad. You can criticize the way he goes about it (I personally love the fact that he beat the first team with himself and the 3rd team while berating them), but I think it comes from the right place.

[miami_fan]

Yeah, but in the East you have a chance. Put last year's Wolves in the East and they are the #3 seed (even with Butler's injury). Dragic, Butler, Whiteside and a few of their young forwards are a nice starting point for an East team - and that's not even factoring in Riley next offseason. People need to understand just how tilted the league is to the West right now. The Nuggets or Jazz would be a 2 or 3 seed in the East and they will be fighting for a playoff spot in the West. It's a different world with all the talent out west. If you look at the top 15 players, 12 are in the West (Lebron, Durant, Davis, Harden, Steph, Russ, Paul, Lillard, Jokic, George, Green, and your choice of KAT/Klay). Only Giannis, Embiid and maybe Kawhi (if he's healthy) would crack that list. Butler immediately becomes top 5 in East if he goes there. He wouldn't even be top 10 in the West.

If the trade request is coming from a place of getting out of the West and getting to the East for a better shot at getting to the Finals, then I retract all of my previous posts. But that does not explain his initial list and the current desire to include the Clippers as a preferred destination.

[Arles]

He did have the Clippers, but also had the Knicks and Nets. I'm guessing he just threw out two of the bigger markets (LA, New York/Brooklyn) to get some interest. He seemed open to Miami as well. Most of the teams he's been interested in have been out east - so I'm guessing that's where he would prefer.

If I'm a player in the 15-25 range (like Butler), I would do everything I can to go out East. He could easily be starting on the All Star team out East - whereas he probably wouldn't even make the team in the West.

[stevew]

Even if the Suns don't have a PG, wouldn't Butler make them a pretty good team? I feel like they have enough secondary type assets to make it work. They have a Miami pick I think. Plus some moveable contracts I'd assume?

[Arles]

Even if the Suns don't have a PG, wouldn't Butler make them a pretty good team? I feel like they have enough secondary type assets to make it work. They have a Miami pick I think. Plus some moveable contracts I'd assume?
Not really. He's a lot like Jackson and Warren - guys who can score but can't really hit 3s. They need more shooters with Booker or a point who can free him up. Plus, the Suns want to run and Butler tends to be a Melo-esque black hole on offense.

[miami_fan]

Jeff Teague is bad at being Fake News Guy.

[BishopMVP]

Butler staying in Minnesota? Thibs wins, KAT/Glen Taylor lose...

I don't agree with how he's played the process out, but I'm with Groundhog in thinking the huge elephant in the room is that he's right about Wiggins and at this point it sounds like KAT as well.

I also don't buy for a second the idea that he called a players only meeting and explained that his only grievances were with management & not teammates, so we'll see how it plays out going forward. Either way, I don't think a consensus franchise cornerstone has had a quicker non-injury fall from grace than KAT in the last 3 months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Either way, I don't think a consensus franchise cornerstone has had a quicker non-injury fall from grace than KAT in the last 3 months.

As opposed to the egocentric malcontent that doesn't seem to be able to get along with anyone wherever he goes?

Towns can ball.
Butler can ball but he's a cancer.

At this point Minny might be better served to unload him AND Thibs, since the only reason Butler appears to still be around to get his attention fix is because Thibs is desperate to hang on to his job. If that requires keeping a bitch like Butler, better to fire his ass too.

[miami_fan]

Butler staying in Minnesota? Thibs wins, KAT/Glen Taylor lose...

I don't agree with how he's played the process out, but I'm with Groundhog in thinking the huge elephant in the room is that he's right about Wiggins and at this point it sounds like KAT as well.

I also don't buy for a second the idea that he called a players only meeting and explained that his only grievances were with management & not teammates, so we'll see how it plays out going forward. Either way, I don't think a consensus franchise cornerstone has had a quicker non-injury fall from grace than KAT in the last 3 months.

Thibs wins what exactly? He has a guy still there who does not want want to be there who is now the person running the organization. He also now has two "soft" guys on long term contracts on the team who may not be built for the rigors of the NBA. Oh yeah , and they are in the Western Conference.

What part of Butler's process is bothersome for people? I have no problem with his process if his goal is to

a) get out of Minnesota
b) get Wiggins and/or Towns out of Minnesota
c) Tell the T-Wolves in no uncertain terms that the mix of Butler, Towns and Wiggins is a complete disaster.

On Wiggins and Towns, are we sure the problem is them and not Thibs? Let's take this to the extreme. Are Wiggins and Towns as soft under the tutelage of Brad Stevens as they are perceived to be under Thibs?

[Lathum]

What part of Butler's process is bothersome for people? I have no problem with his process if his goal is to

a) get out of Minnesota
b) get Wiggins and/or Towns out of Minnesota
c) Tell the T-Wolves in no uncertain terms that the mix of Butler, Towns and Wiggins is a complete disaster.



You think the way he acted is acceptable?

I am far from a "stay in your lane" guy, but he has a contract with the team and is exceptionally well compensated. It sucks he hates his situation, but holding out, being critical of your teammates, then making a spectacle at practice and yelling at your GM are not the way a professional acts.

[MrBug708]

Thibs just wants to be fired because he's likely to be fired at the end of the year, so you might as well get it over with now so teams know if they fire their coach, they have a shot at him. With Butler, he's got a punchers chance. Without, they aren't anything special

[Ryche]

Butler has one goal, a max contract. He's not getting it in Minnesota. Minnesota wa short sighted in trading for him if they were not willing or able to offer that contract.

KAT is fine, he'll be a top 10 player. Wiggins though shouldn't have gotten that contract. But with how hard it is to draw stars to Minnesota (or any smaller NBA market) they didn't have much choice but to take a chance.

[miami_fan]

You think the way he acted is acceptable?

I am far from a "stay in your lane" guy, but he has a contract with the team and is exceptionally well compensated. It sucks he hates his situation, but holding out, being critical of your teammates, then making a spectacle at practice and yelling at your GM are not the way a professional acts.

"I have no problem with his process if his goal is to"

Note I did not give an goal of bending over backwards to make things work or to make things comfortable for anyone in the organization.

I will grant you the holding out is unprofessional. But the other stuff? I don't see it if that is they guy you bring in to add toughness, accountability and generally shake things up to the team. I will reckless speculate that Thibs had no issue with Butler's Kobe practice impersonation this week in the same way NFL coaches are not that upset about a training camp scuffle. I believe that is why he brought him in. Think about it. The same guy who held out, was critical of teammates, made a spectacle of practice and .was yelling at the GM came in the next day and called a players only meeting A meeting in which Butler either disparaged management (reportedly) or his teammates (speculation) again? The organization's response to the events the day before? Cancel practice.

[stevew]

Supposedly Riley had Butler for Waiters, Josh Richardson and a pick and Thibs called back asking for more. And Riley responded appropriately with 2 words

[miami_fan]

New York Knicks waive Joakim Noah (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24973763/new-york-knicks-waive-joakim-noah)

Get him in Thibs, GET HIM IN!:D