Atatiana Jefferson deserves her own thread

[Ben E Lou]

The body cam vid released by the Fort Worth PD is horrific. The officer sees a figure in the window, doesn’t identify himself, screams “SHOW ME YOUR HANDS” and shoots almost instantly. Even if she’d had any idea it was a cop, she didn’t have time to comply before she was shot to death in her own home.


Woman Killed Inside Her Home By Fort Worth Officer Was Playing With Her Nephew Moments Before – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/10/12/woman-killed-inside-her-home-by-fort-worth-officer-was-playing-with-her-nephew-moments-before/)

[Ben E Lou]

Just re-watched with a stopwatch. Exact phrasing was "Put your hands up! Show me your hands!" From "up" to the time he fired measured .79 seconds. The time between the second "hands" is too quick to start and stop the stopwatch. IF she heard the first sentence without being distracted by the second (BIG "IF",) is .79 seconds even enough time for the brain to process what he said, let alone actually raise your hands?

[GrantDawg]

"They found a firearm in the house." Yeah, you are allowed to have a firearm in your house. I feel so bad for the guy that called the police concerned for his neighbor.
I know he feels guilty, but why in the world would you imagine something like that happening?

[Ben E Lou]

"They found a firearm in the house." Either she was holding the gun, and thus we have a poignant intersection of race, policing, and 2A, or she wasn't is incredibly disingenuous and obfuscating.

[NobodyHere]

Maybe the inevitable civil payout should come out of the police pension fund.

[PilotMan]

Either she was holding the gun, and thus we have a poignant intersection of race, policing, and 2A, or she wasn't is incredibly disingenuous and obfuscating.


My question is would it be the kind of place where one would keep a firearm out for the purposes of defending your home? I can think of a place where that would be normal, but we wouldn't know with this neighborhood.

[QuikSand]

Horrific. Beyond words.

[Ben E Lou]

My question is would it be the kind of place where one would keep a firearm out for the purposes of defending your home? I can think of a place where that would be normal, but we wouldn't know with this neighborhood.Based on the pics I've seen online, combined with "1200 block of East Allen" I've seen in a few stories, I'm about 99.5% sure this is the home:


https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1203-E-Allen-Ave-Fort-Worth-TX-76104/162914823_zpid/


Compare to this tweet from local news: <samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Very latest coming up on NBC 5 News at 6 p.m. -- Fort Worth Officer Opens Fire, Killing Woman Inside Her Home: PD --&gt; <a href="https://t.co/7F8lLT1xSq">https://t.co/7F8lLT1xSq</a></p>&mdash; NBC DFW (@NBCDFW) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCDFW/status/1183155139953205248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 12, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[EagleFan]

Unless something completely unexpected comes up, charge him with murder.

[PilotMan]

Unless something completely unexpected comes up, charge him with murder.


Inevitable "feared for his life" in 3......2......1....

[tarcone]

They are already circling the wagons.

Sickening.

[NobodyHere]

This is now the top story of my google news feed.

[cuervo72]

I’d love to say I’m shocked by this, but I am not at all. Well, maybe that the cam video was actually released. Other than that, no.

[Warhammer]

This is horrific. I do not understand how this is standard procedure in a non-emergency situation. Additionally, if there were people that were canvassing my yard at 2:30 AM, unidentified, if I had a gun, I would go for my gun.

This happens and police wonder why they are not trusted by minorities...

[Chief Rum]

Unless something completely unexpected comes up, charge him with murder.

This. Fuck this guy.

[QuikSand]

Inevitable "feared for his life" in 3......2......1....

Nothing soon. Remember, police have all bargained for special provisions so they don't have to answer for their actions - even just to describe the situation - until days of time to sort things out with union-hired lawyers. I'd be shocked if we hear much for days on this, until they have the story ironed out juuuuuuuust right.

[Ben E Lou]

The officer has resigned.

[QuikSand]

Credit to the body camera. Without it, who knows what we would know by now?

[stevew]

It’s surprising that the body camera actually worked.

[JediKooter]

How soon before he is with a different police department or sheriff's office?

[Ben E Lou]

Credit to the body camera. Without it, who knows what we would know by now?Without the body camera, he doesn't even have to embellish all that much. Add 10 seconds, maybe a third "put your hands up," and "she looked like she was reaching for something" to the story, and he can easily find a jury with enough "back the blue" on it that no chance he gets convicted for shooting this woman who "refused to comply with police orders." The body camera is EVERYTHING here.

[RainMaker]

Just re-watched with a stopwatch. Exact phrasing was "Put your hands up! Show me your hands!" From "up" to the time he fired measured .79 seconds. The time between the second "hands" is too quick to start and stop the stopwatch. IF she heard the first sentence without being distracted by the second (BIG "IF",) is .79 seconds even enough time for the brain to process what he said, let alone actually raise your hands?

Never identified himself as police either from what I see. Not sure what you're supposed to do. You see someone snooping around your house in the middle of the night and yelling at you. I would assume it was an intruder, especially if I was female.

[RainMaker]

Either she was holding the gun, and thus we have a poignant intersection of race, policing, and 2A, or she wasn't is incredibly disingenuous and obfuscating.

If she was holding the gun, I'd imagine the police would have told everyone that immediately.

As you said, they're just obfuscating. I'm sure the NRA will run in to defend a legal gun owner here. :lol:

[Ben E Lou]

Dang. Chief just said “if he hadn’t resigned, I would have fired him today.”

[Ben E Lou]

ABC News on Twitter: "JUST IN: Officer involved in fatal shooting of Atatiana Jefferson in her home has resigned, chief says, and still faces potential criminal charges.

"Had the officer not resigned, I would have fired him for violations of several policies." https://t.co/BDAdgoaZ8i… https://t.co/wdhJ5IeT8A" (https://twitter.com/abc/status/1183810593003728896?s=21)

[bryce]

There are a lot of parallels to the Amber Guyger trial that JUST ended, what, a week or two ago. I'd bet this cop will also be indicted for murder.

[Edward64]

Without the body camera, he doesn't even have to embellish all that much. Add 10 seconds, maybe a third "put your hands up," and "she looked like she was reaching for something" to the story, and he can easily find a jury with enough "back the blue" on it that no chance he gets convicted for shooting this woman who "refused to comply with police orders." The body camera is EVERYTHING here.

This is me. I would have given the cop the benefit of the doubt. The body cam is everything here.

[RainMaker]

There are a lot of parallels to the Amber Guyger trial that JUST ended, what, a week or two ago. I'd bet this cop will also be indicted for murder.

Guyger was screwed because she was off-duty. It's really hard to convict an on-duty cop for a serious crime. They do their best to cover up for their friends.

[Ben E Lou]

Guyger was screwed because she was off-duty. It's really hard to convict an on-duty cop for a serious crime.Did you see the Chief’s comments yet? This guy is going to have to overcome an internal investigation that says he violated multiple policies. I suspect he’s in serious trouble.

[RainMaker]

Did you see the Chief’s comments yet? This guy is going to have to overcome an internal investigation that says he violated multiple policies. I suspect he’s in serious trouble.

This cop got off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/judge-releases-video-of-police-shooting-of-daniel-shaver-after-officer-acquitted/2017/12/08/3e715e7a-dc3e-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_video.html

[Ben E Lou]

This cop got off.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/judge-releases-video-of-police-shooting-of-daniel-shaver-after-officer-acquitted/2017/12/08/3e715e7a-dc3e-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_video.htmlI remembre that incident. Was there documentation that he violated policy?

[JPhillips]

From a David French piece in National Review:

I’ve been looking closely at the police-shooting issue for many years, and I’m noticing a trend in many of the worst and most controversial shootings. The police make mistakes that heighten their own sense of danger, and then they “resolve” their own error by opening fire.

[RainMaker]

I remembre that incident. Was there documentation that he violated policy?

Yes, they fired him for numerous policy violations.

[cartman]

He was booked a little bit ago for murder.

Former Fort Worth Police Officer Aaron Dean Charged With Murder For Shooting Atatiana Jefferson – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/10/14/former-fort-worth-police-officer-aaron-dean-charged-murder-atatiana-jefferson/)

[EagleFan]

He was booked a little bit ago for murder.

Former Fort Worth Police Officer Aaron Dean Charged With Murder For Shooting Atatiana Jefferson – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/10/14/former-fort-worth-police-officer-aaron-dean-charged-murder-atatiana-jefferson/)

Good, they are being swift about it.

[tarcone]

As it should happen.

[Ben E Lou]

According to the arrest warrant, her nephew said she pointed the gun toward the window. Legal gun. Had a license. Chief says absolutely her right.

This is going to be an absolute mess.

[NobodyHere]

According to the arrest warrant, her nephew said she pointed the gun toward the window. Legal gun. Had a license. Chief says absolutely her right.

This is going to be an absolute mess.

If true that's basically your acquittal right there.

[SackAttack]

If true that's basically your acquittal right there.

And if he's acquitted, Fort Worth will burn. Doesn't matter if he was "afraid for his life." He didn't identify himself as a police officer, and Texas is one of those states with the castle doctrine/stand your ground laws.

With that body cam footage, if there's an acquittal, a week later the city is gonna be ashes.

[Edward64]

Why did it take 2-3 days for this to come out? I would like corroborating testimony vs just an 8 year old (who I'm sure has been traumatized).

If true, I'm guessing he does get acquitted.

Atatiana Jefferson pointed gun at window before Fort Worth officer killed her, nephew told authorities (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2019/10/15/atatiana-jefferson-pointed-gun-out-window-before-fort-worth-officer-killed-her-nephew-told-authorities/)
A murder warrant for Aaron Dean, the Fort Worth officer who killed Atatiana Jefferson, tells what led up to the shooting from the perspective of her 8-year-old nephew, who was in the room with her when she was shot.

The boy told a forensic interviewer that he and his aunt were playing video games together about 2:30 a.m. Saturday when she heard noises outside. She took her handgun from her purse and pointed it “toward the window” before she was shot, the nephew said, according to the arrest-warrant affidavit.

The 8-year-old saw his aunt fall to the ground. Jefferson, 28, was pronounced dead at 3:05 a.m.

Interim Police Chief Ed Kraus said at a news conference Tuesday that it “makes sense that she would have a gun if she felt that she was being threatened or there was someone in the backyard.”

[Ben E Lou]

If true that's basically your acquittal right there.And if he's acquitted, Fort Worth will burn. Doesn't matter if he was "afraid for his life." He didn't identify himself as a police officer, and Texas is one of those states with the castle doctrine/stand your ground laws.

With that body cam footage, if there's an acquittal, a week later the city is gonna be ashes.Yup, the two things above are the reasons for...This is going to be an absolute mess.

[NobodyHere]

I didn't see the witness to the gun pointing was an 8 year old. Yeah there's going to a lot of interest in that interview. I wonder if there if tape of it and if it still exists.

But I imagine the prosecutor is going to have an easy time with an 8 year old that probably isn't fond of the defense.


Also I'm just going to throw out there that people are innocent until proven guilty. That's easily forgotten in media frenzies.

[Ben E Lou]

Strange bedfellows?


Dana Loesch on Twitter: "This story is awful. Why the now former-officer didn’t follow protocol or even announce himself is crazy. I’m glad the interim chief is making this clear. Jefferson had every right to lawfully have her own firearm in her own home.

https://t.co/dVztlZQuua" (https://twitter.com/dloesch/status/1184225243436638208?s=21)

[RainMaker]

Strange bedfellows?


Dana Loesch on Twitter: "This story is awful. Why the now former-officer didn’t follow protocol or even announce himself is crazy. I’m glad the interim chief is making this clear. Jefferson had every right to lawfully have her own firearm in her own home.

https://t.co/dVztlZQuua" (https://twitter.com/dloesch/status/1184225243436638208?s=21)

Eh, the NRA did the same thing at first with Castillo. But they quickly realize who their base is and will go radio silent about this legal gun owner being murdered.

[cartman]

I don't think she is the spokesperson for the NRA anymore

[EagleFan]

She's not the NRA's base, they will stay silent. It kind of ruins their other narratives and they would have to put their sheets in storage for a while.

[SackAttack]

I didn't see the witness to the gun pointing was an 8 year old. Yeah there's going to a lot of interest in that interview. I wonder if there if tape of it and if it still exists.

But I imagine the prosecutor is going to have an easy time with an 8 year old that probably isn't fond of the defense.


Also I'm just going to throw out there that people are innocent until proven guilty. That's easily forgotten in media frenzies.

Former Fort Worth officer who shot Atatiana Jefferson refuses to speak with detectives about her death - CNN (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/15/us/fort-worth-shooting-arrest-warrant/index.html)

Dude is refusing to cooperate with department investigators.

Ain't saying he pulled the trigger with malice aforethought but when Internal Affairs investigates every officer-involved shooting and you stonewall them when you're involved, well...he may not be guilty of "murder" (depends on how the statute is phrased and whether he can get a jury of Southerners who believe police incapable of doing wrong) but not sure innocent is the word I'd use, either.

[BYU 14]

Former Fort Worth officer who shot Atatiana Jefferson refuses to speak with detectives about her death - CNN (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/15/us/fort-worth-shooting-arrest-warrant/index.html)

Dude is refusing to cooperate with department investigators.

Ain't saying he pulled the trigger with malice aforethought but when Internal Affairs investigates every officer-involved shooting and you stonewall them when you're involved, well...he may not be guilty of "murder" (depends on how the statute is phrased and whether he can get a jury of Southerners who believe police incapable of doing wrong) but not sure innocent is the word I'd use, either.

Officer Noor in Minnesota did the same thing, and in both cases I have to think that with no defensible explanation, just keep quiet is the choice. He fucked up in the worst way and should/better pay for it and this tactic will not help him.

[Chief Rum]

Yea, I'm 100 percent in favor of throwing the book at this guy, but it completely makes sense he wouldn't speak with investigators. All he can do is get himself in more trouble. He should only speak to them with his lawyer present.

[CU Tiger]

He should hang....period.
Inexcusable.

Major precedence potential. A citizen, in their home, with a legally owned firearms, shot by a government official without cause or violation.

And the perpetrator is a trained LEO.
We have video. We have proof. A speedy trial should last...maybe 30 minutes.

'You shot her. We see it. There is no defense that makes that acceptable. Chair or needle?'

Now we wont get that. We will get months or years of BS....

[PilotMan]

The latest is now that the police were dispatched as if a potential burglary were in progress, not for a simple welfare check. If that is true, it would explain them going around the house in the dark and looking in the windows without announcing themselves. Also, if that's true, it's really going to fuck this whole case over. You may get negligent homicide out of it, and you may find the dispatcher in trouble, sued, or what have you, as an accessory, or in a civil, wrongful death case.

[SackAttack]

The latest is now that the police were dispatched as if a potential burglary were in progress, not for a simple welfare check. If that is true, it would explain them going around the house in the dark and looking in the windows without announcing themselves. Also, if that's true, it's really going to fuck this whole case over. You may get negligent homicide out of it, and you may find the dispatcher in trouble, sued, or what have you, as an accessory, or in a civil, wrongful death case.

There was still no announcement that law enforcement was present. Even if they were dispatched for a potential robbery, you don't get to scream 'show me your hands' and blam blam blam less than a second later.

"Police, show me your hands," and you're covered on the 'I thought it was a robbery/afraid for my life" front that gets so many acquittals.

But assuming a jury that's even remotely got it together, the details of the dispatch are going to matter less than the behavior of the police officer, which we have video evidence of.

[CU Tiger]

Even IF it WAS a robbery and even IF she HAD a gun...doesnt excessive force come into play?

Surround the house and barricade in place.

I mean I know Jon supports shooting all criminals on site without regard...but most of us think thats a pretty too far standard, no?

[JediKooter]

Even IF it WAS a robbery and even IF she HAD a gun...doesnt excessive force come into play?

Surround the house and barricade in place.

I mean I know Jon supports shooting all criminals on site without regard...but most of us think thats a pretty too far standard, no?

Had they been white ranchers in Oregon, they would have told them to turn themselves in when it was convenient for the ranchers. Or a white biker gang and ask them to step outside and it's ok to use their cell phones to make any necessary calls they may need to make. I really have no idea why minority communities don't trust the police...

[CU Tiger]

Had they been white ranchers in Oregon, they would have told them to turn themselves in when it was convenient for the ranchers. Or a white biker gang and ask them to step outside and it's ok to use their cell phones to make any necessary calls they may need to make. I really have no idea why minority communities don't trust the police...

Ehhh...to be fair if they'd been white ranchers in Idaho they may have surrounded the place with ATF and FBI agents and labeled them terrorists...or they may have brought in a tank and torched the house...

Does racial bias play in?
Absolutely. And both sides must do a better job there to change that culture. Starting with Blue/White who must lead the change.

But to me, from what I know so far, in this case, this is more a power tripping gun loving poorly reacting cop as opposed to a white power statement.

[RainMaker]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable "we found marijuana in the home" defense.

[NobodyHere]

Even IF it WAS a robbery and even IF she HAD a gun...doesnt excessive force come into play?

Surround the house and barricade in place.

I mean I know Jon supports shooting all criminals on site without regard...but most of us think thats a pretty too far standard, no?

The cop is going to claim he was responding to a burglary and that he saw a gun pointed at him. If the nephew did indeed see the victim point a gun at the window then I see how acquittal becomes a possibility.

[RainMaker]

I would imagine you can't just snoop around someone's house and then claim innocence when they point a gun at you. How many people here with a weapon would not have it handy if they noticed people snooping around their house in the middle of the night?

Police should have made it known who they were. You can't shoot a law abiding citizen through the window of their home. The woman did nothing wrong.

[NobodyHere]

I would imagine you can't just snoop around someone's house and then claim innocence when they point a gun at you. How many people here with a weapon would not have it handy if they noticed people snooping around their house in the middle of the night?

Police should have made it known who they were. You can't shoot a law abiding citizen through the window of their home. The woman did nothing wrong.

Not saying you're wrong.

But tell me, if there's a suspected burglary should cops just knock on the front door without scoping out the situation?

[tarcone]

Not saying you're wrong.

But tell me, if there's a suspected burglary should cops just knock on the front door without scoping out the situation?

This was a wellness check. The dude that called said he was worried because the door was ajar.

[NobodyHere]

This was a wellness check. The dude that called said he was worried because the door was ajar.

That's not what the cop heard allegedly

[bryce]

Indictment came down yesterday.
Aaron Dean indicted on murder charge in shooting of Atatiana Jefferson | wfaa.com (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/special-reports/atatiana-jefferson/aaron-dean-indicted-murder-shooting-atatiana-jefferson/287-fd79b631-8e94-4cef-a9d6-98c4d92f9532)