Boomers vs Millennials

[Edward64]

There is obviously a lot of "pent-up" anger from Millennials directed at their elders. Thought it would be more appropriate to have a separate thread vs the Democratic Primaries thread.

For a proposed definition

Generation - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation)
Baby boomers, also known as Generation W,[38] the Me Generation or Boomers, are the generation that were born mostly following World War II, typically born from 1946 to 1964. Increased birth rates were observed during the post–World War II baby boom making them a relatively large demographic cohort.[39][40]

Generation X, commonly abbreviated to Gen X, is the generation following the baby boomers. Demographers and researchers typically use starting birth years ranging from the early-to-mid 1960s and ending birth years in the early 1980s. The term has also been used in different times and places for a number of different subcultures or countercultures since the 1950s.

In the U.S., some called Xers the "baby bust" generation because of a drop in birth rates following the baby boom.[41] The drop in fertility rates in America began in the late 1950s. But according to authors William Strauss and Neil Howe (who use a twenty year span from 1961 to 1981 for their birth years), by 1991 there were approximately 88.5 million Xers in the U.S.[42]

Millennials, also known as Generation Y,[43] are the cohort of people following Generation X. Researchers and popular media use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years, with 1981 to 1996 a widely accepted definition. According to Pew Research, the Millennials will surpass the Baby Boomers in numbers in the U.S. in 2019, with an anticipated 72 million Boomers and 73 million Millennials.[44]

Generation Z, or simply Gen Z, is the cohort of people born after the Millennials. Demographers and researchers typically use the mid- to late-1990s as starting birth years.[45]

[Scoobz0202]

Seeing baby boomers getting mad about "Ok, boomer" makes me laugh after hearing the disdain for millennials as being entitled, lazy, snowflakes the past few years.

[Lathum]

I wonder if enough boomers have died in the last 4 years to make a noticeable difference in the outcome of the election.

[lungs]

Recently, one of my friends was talking with disdain and throwing the millennial stereotypes around about laziness and all that. Unfortunately, I had the task of informing him that by being born in 1983, he was in fact a millennial. Then it became a discussion of definition of the generations. I think I finally shut him up by saying that because we graduated high school in 2001, we came of age at the turn of the millennium. Therefore, we are millennials.

Now I’ve seen some things circling social media from my fellow early millennials about how we are the best millennials because we still played outside and other crap like that. A lot of selective memory. As if Nintendo and Sega didn’t exist.

[ISiddiqui]

I am what has been recently called an Xennial as I was born in 1980. As you will note in your definitions, Gen X apparently goes to 81 and Millennials go to early 80s, but some try to include 80 as Millennials.

[JediKooter]

I like how people are surprised that Millennials are pushing back after being blamed for the death of just about everything.

[ISiddiqui]

Seeing baby boomers getting mad about "Ok, boomer" makes me laugh after hearing the disdain for millennials as being entitled, lazy, snowflakes the past few years.

Indeed. The lack of awareness is stunning.

[Ryche]

I wonder if enough boomers have died in the last 4 years to make a noticeable difference in the outcome of the election.

From a presentation I saw at a population conference, if the demographics of the electorate stays exactly the same as in 2016, the Dem candidate wins. So possibly yes.

[PilotMan]

I am what has been recently called an Xennial as I was born in 1980. As you will note in your definitions, Gen X apparently goes to 81 and Millennials go to early 80s, but some try to include 80 as Millennials.

As a late Xer [75] I identify much more with Millennials. Beside the fact that X gets squashed by these 2 behemoths, I feel like it's better to just throw in on that side, although, I did read an article where most Xers were Boomer supporters.

As a much more tech savvy person in my gen with much more Millennial leanings it just makes more sense. Besides, boomers never gave 2 fucks about Xers either.

[Edward64]

I am what has been recently called an Xennial as I was born in 1980. As you will note in your definitions, Gen X apparently goes to 81 and Millennials go to early 80s, but some try to include 80 as Millennials.

Similar, I'm at the tail end of the Boomers and have always considered myself more Gen X.

[JediKooter]

As a late Xer [75] I identify much more with Millennials. Beside the fact that X gets squashed by these 2 behemoths, I feel like it's better to just throw in on that side, although, I did read an article where most Xers were Boomer supporters.

As a much more tech savvy person in my gen with much more Millennial leanings it just makes more sense. Besides, boomers never gave 2 fucks about Xers either.

Mid-ish(?) Gen Xer here (71) and I empathize and lean way more towards/with Millennial's and later generations than I do with the boomers.

Yup! Us in the gen X league pretty much tried to do everything our boomer parents did and got shafted. "Just get a bachelors or masters and you're set" and then just go, "Oops, guess you didn't try hard enough. Sorry you can only get a job at McDonald's with your degree".

[Lathum]

As a late Xer [75] I identify much more with Millennials. Beside the fact that X gets squashed by these 2 behemoths, I feel like it's better to just throw in on that side, although, I did read an article where most Xers were Boomer supporters.

As a much more tech savvy person in my gen with much more Millennial leanings it just makes more sense. Besides, boomers never gave 2 fucks about Xers either.

This is me, down to the birth year and everything.

I do however wear being a GenX as a badge of honor. I think we are the last of an old guard that remembers how things were before technology gave us all we need at our fingers. Boomes dont really get technology, ease of info, etc...and Millennials don't really get how people lived without these things. Our generation straddles those worlds. Life without cell phones, cable, newspapers being primary source of info, listening to the radio with your hand on the record button to tape a song, actually watching a TV show when it came on or you missed it, etc...Lots of struggles Millennials would never understand

[JediKooter]

Life without cell phones

Oh man, just the cell phones and if we had those in high school, I can only imagine all the trouble I would have gotten into and especially after I found out about the wonderful world of girls, haha! At least *old man voice* back in my day, if I didn't call my parents, it was a legit excuse that I didn't have any money for the pay phone. */old man voice*

[Lathum]

Oh man, just the cell phones and if we had those in high school, I can only imagine all the trouble I would have gotten into and especially after I found out about the wonderful world of girls, haha! At least *old man voice* back in my day, if I didn't call my parents, it was a legit excuse that I didn't have any money for the pay phone. */old man voice*

I shudder when I think about the shit I would have done with a camera phone in high school.

[Coffee Warlord]

It was a suspension level offense to have a pager in school when I was in high school. The reason given - they were for drug dealers.

Proper Gen X-er. Both sides deserve derision and mockery.

[Edward64]

With Gen X far ahead, maybe I should re-label this as Boomers vs Gen X. Let's give it 2-3 more days to better understand our demographics

[PilotMan]

Oh man, just the cell phones and if we had those in high school, I can only imagine all the trouble I would have gotten into and especially after I found out about the wonderful world of girls, haha! At least *old man voice* back in my day, if I didn't call my parents, it was a legit excuse that I didn't have any money for the pay phone. */old man voice*

The big one for me was memorizing the codes to get the correct long distance provider, then memorizing my dad's credit card number (with expiration) so I could use it for those calls. You had to know what the beeps meant, what codes to use and if not, then how to make a collect call. My kids can't (or won't) memorize their times tables as adults.

[Izulde]

Another xennial. Our microgeneration *really* got shafted in the labor market. Gen Xers gobbled up the high-paying jobs and then companies wanted the cheaper millennials for everything else. I remain very bitter about this.

[Edward64]

The big one for me was memorizing the codes to get the correct long distance provider, then memorizing my dad's credit card number so I could use it for those calls. You had to know what the beeps meant, what codes to use and if not, then how to make a collect call. My kids can't (or won't) memorize their times tables as adults.

My kids are Gen Z. I remember wife and me teaching them & testing their multiplication tables up to 12. I remember my mom doing the same for me.

[JediKooter]

I shudder when I think about the shit I would have done with a camera phone in high school.

No kidding! Was talking to my best friend (been my best friend since Jr High) and we were saying about how we could get away with stuff so much easier if we had cell phones just by sending a quick text to our friends to coordinate our alibis. There were pagers back then but they were expensive and only some of the rich kids and the kids that were dealing, had them.

The big one for me was memorizing the codes to get the correct looking distance provider, then memorizing my dad's credit card number so I could use it for those calls. You had to know what the beeps meant, what codes to use and if not, then how to make a collect call. My kids can't (or won't) memorize their times tables as adults.

Oh shoot, I don't remember that, but, we only had one area code so maybe that's why? Very few things that are as stressful as waiting to hear whether or not the collect call was accepted or not.

[PilotMan]

Another xennial. Our microgeneration *really* got shafted in the labor market. Gen Xers gobbled up the high-paying jobs and then companies wanted the cheaper millennials for everything else. I remain very bitter about this.

Boomers added life expectancy and refusal to retire, remain in power has really fucked everyone else. They just clog the pipeline. They were able to move up the chain faster with a greatly expanding economy, rode out the downturns with those positions and now, thanks to the last recession refuse to leave.

They cry about their SS after crying about paying for it. It's no secret that the trump tax cuts expire after all boomers have left the workforce, and why no congressional leadership will touch the reduction in benefits necessary to fix SS until everyone has gotten into it. The year 2030 will be landmark year and the cherry on top for all the ways the boomers fucked us.

[NobodyHere]

I like how people are surprised that Millennials are pushing back after being blamed for the death of just about everything.

Millenials being called responsible for the death of some company is a big pet peeve of mine. It smacks of corporate entitlement.

We didn't kill anything. You corporate assholes failed to tell why your products are worth buying.

[PilotMan]

My kids are Gen Z. I remember wife and me teaching them & testing their multiplication tables up to 12. I remember my mom doing the same for me.

Mine are the same, and in high school. They know them, but there completely suck at then. They simply don't use them enough, and were allowed calculators too long. They are blown away by how fast I can do mental math. My millennial, special needs son, who we were homeschooling when he learned, knows his better because I rode him constantly to learn them. The others didn't get that.

[ISiddiqui]

Millenials being called responsible for the death of some company is a big pet peeve of mine. It smacks of corporate entitlement.

We didn't kill anything. You corporate assholes failed to tell why your products are worth buying.

I really enjoyed an article that was like Millenials are responsible for the killing of Applebees, to which my response was.. GOOD!

[JediKooter]

Millenials being called responsible for the death of some company is a big pet peeve of mine. It smacks of corporate entitlement.

We didn't kill anything. You corporate assholes failed to tell why your products are worth buying.

I think not only entitlement but completely tone deaf too. I like to call it, 'Pulling a Tower Records'. Either adapt to the wants and needs of the newer generations or...go out of business.

They also fail to understand that no one wants to buy expensive crap that needs to be replaced within months.

[Edward64]

I really enjoyed an article that was like Millenials are responsible for the killing of Applebees, to which my response was.. GOOD!

Oh man, the cajun steak was great on a limited budget.

I don't remember reading about Millennials blamed for killing off companies but agree that its because the companies didn't change fast enough or didn't really have a worthy product(s).

Sears & Kmart comes to mind (but then Gen X probably "killed" off those companies).

[NobodyHere]

Oh man, the cajun steak was great on a limited budget.

I don't remember reading about Millennials blamed for killing off companies but agree that its because the companies didn't change fast enough or didn't really have a worthy product(s).

Sears & Kmart comes to mind (but then Gen X probably "killed" off those companies).

Well it's headlines like these that I'm talking about

18 industries which are being killed by millennials | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/millennials-industry-casual-dining-weddings-beer-razors-golf-motorcycles-fabric-softener-a8574281.html)

[PilotMan]

Oh man, the cajun steak was great on a limited budget.

I don't remember reading about Millennials blamed for killing off companies but agree that its because the companies didn't change fast enough or didn't really have a worthy product(s).

Sears & Kmart comes to mind (but then Gen X probably "killed" off those companies).

It's ab article about the fall of casual dining, in favor of the variety of 'fast' casual.

Why is restaurant traffic falling? Blame millennials (https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/financing/why-restaurant-traffic-falling-blame-millennials)

[Lathum]

Oh shoot, I don't remember that, but, we only had one area code so maybe that's why? Very few things that are as stressful as waiting to hear whether or not the collect call was accepted or not.

I remember if we were out, at the movies or something, and it was time to get picked up we would collect call our parents. When the call went through and the operator was asking if they would accept it we would just yell over them "ready to be picked up!!" and hang up the phone.

Remember emergency breakthroughs before call waiting was the norm?

[molson]

Well it's headlines like these that I'm talking about

18 industries which are being killed by millennials | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/millennials-industry-casual-dining-weddings-beer-razors-golf-motorcycles-fabric-softener-a8574281.html)

The wording is intended to get clicks but I'm not sure that the point is that we should have all banded together to make sure Kmart was OK (and you don't have to search far to find much meaner stuff said about old people as a group)

Every generation kills lots of stuff. We'd be living in stone ages otherwise.

The craziest thing to me about all this is just that old people used to be young and young people will eventually be old. You'd think there's be say, less racial tension if we all experienced life as each race at some point.

I guess it's just evolutionarily prudent to want to push out the old people, and of course the old people are going to resist that.

[JediKooter]

I remember if we were out, at the movies or something, and it was time to get picked up we would collect call our parents. When the call went through and the operator was asking if they would accept it we would just yell over them "ready to be picked up!!" and hang up the phone.

Remember emergency breakthroughs before call waiting was the norm?

Haha! That's great! Never even thought about doing it that way. I do indeed remember the emergency breakthroughs! When I was in the air force, I did a TDY to Saudi Arabia, so I bought a at&t long distance card, but, I would call the closest base to whoever I was calling, call that base operator and ask to be connected to an off base line and then use the at&t number to cover the cost of that call but it would only be charged from where the base was to the person I was calling. The whole thing was like that episode of M*A*S*H* where Hawkeye was able to call the BBQ place back home and when he hung up, he remembered that he forgot to order the cole slaw.

[Scarecrow]

I think this is a fairly accurate "Which generation am I" table:

The G.I. Generation – Greatest Generation
- Births from: 1900
- Births until: 1924
- Coming of age: 1918 - 1942

The Silent Generation – Lucky Few
- Births from: 1925
- Births until: 1945
- Coming of age: 1943 - 1963

The Baby Boom Generation – Baby Boomers
- Births from: 1946
- Births until: 1965
- Coming of age: 1964 - 1983

Generation X – Latchkey Kids
- Births from: 1966
- Births until: 1979
- Coming of age: 1984 - 1997

Generation Y – Millennials
- Births from: 1980
- Births until: 1994
- Coming of age: 1998 - 2012

Generation Z – Gen Next
- Births from: 1995
- Births until: 2016
- Coming of age: 2013 - 2034

G.I. Generation (1900-1924)
■ Also known as the Greatest Generation, includes the veterans who fought in World War II.
■ Lived through two World Wars, the Great Depression and many other advances.
■ They are conservative savers, hard-working , with a high sense of moral obligation, patriotism and respect for authority.
■ Two overlapping groups consistent with the Depression Era (born between 1912-1921) and the World War II cohort (born between 1920-1924 to fight in 1939-1945).
■ The parents of the Baby Boomers.

Silent Generation (1925-1945)
■ Born between the two World Wars, many of them who were too young to join the service in the World War II.
■ Also known as the “Post War Cohort” or the “Lucky Few”.
■ Lived through the post war economic boom but also through tensions and approaching wars.
■ Conservative, rational savers, hard-working, patriotic members that fight for security and stability.

Baby Boom Generation (1946-1965)
■ Born after the World War II, their parents belonging to the G.I. Generation.
■ A 14 year increase in birth rate worldwide.
■ Focused on the civil rights movement and cultural development.
■ Lived through the Vietnam War, MLK, the Kennedy assassination, the Nixon resignation.
■ They came of age in the ‘60s with the hippie movement, Woodstock and college rages.
■ Boomers I or The Baby Boomers (1946-1954) and Boomers 2 or the Jones Generation (1955-1965).
■ Many of the Baby boomers embraced a more conservative behavior and eventually gave birth to Generations X and Y.

Generation X (1966-1979)
■ Also known as the Gen X is the first generation to follow the Baby boomers.
■ This is also the first generation to be named and defined by marketers.
■ Many of its members are aware of their generational title.
■ Came of age in the '80s and '90s with the Reagan era, Challenger explosion, fall of Berlin Wall, Persian Gulf War, economic recession.
■ The all-knowing spoiled kids of the Baby Boomers yet with fewer ambitions and less driven to change the world.
■ The generation X kids are called the “latchkey” kids, exposed to daycare and family instability and this has probably shaped how they regard their family life and how the next generation, Y, is being educated. - The best educated with 29% obtaining a bachelor’s degree or higher (6% higher than the previous generation).

Generation Y (1980-1994)
■ Also known as the Echo Boomers or Millennials.
■ The demographic cohort of individuals, primarily children of the Baby boomers.
■ This generation grew up with many world-changing events including the rise of mass communication, technological advance.
■ All knowing as the former Gen X they have what it takes but are also willing to do something about it.
■ This generation benefits from all science advances and better education and has the ambition and desire to change the world.
■ They have been exposed and seen so much that are now immune to traditional ways from marketing to sociology.

Generation Z (1995- )
■ The term generically used to describe the cohort of people born around 2000.
■ Also known as iGeneration, Gen Tech, Gen Wii, Net Gen, Gen Next, Post Gen.
■ This is a generation living in a society where everything is possible and the main communication channel is the internet.
■ A volatile environment of terror threats, possible nuclear or biological attacks.
■ Family stability and moral values put aside, heightened sense of self.
■ Education is now focusing on developing practical skills and enriching creativity.

[NobodyHere]

I just want to point out that there is an entire generation living now that hasn't seen the Lions win a playoff game.

One wonders how many generations will die off before another win is seen.

[molson]

Isn't it time for a new generation? I guess they're here already, we just don't know enough about them yet to tell them what's collectively wrong with them.

[Lathum]

Isn't it time for a new generation? I guess they're here already, we just don't know enough about them yet to tell them what's collectively wrong with them.

Probably the final generation

[JediKooter]

The Pepsi Generation

[Vince, Pt. II]

At 1981 I'm squarely between Gen X and Millenial. I sympathize more and identify with Gen X much more than Millenials.

I'll echo some thoughts above - I am super glad that social media, pervasive cell phones, and MMO video games all came of age after I graduated college. That would have been a shitshow.

[Edward64]

Its pretty clear to me now that it was never Boomers vs Millennials. Its really Boomers vs Gen X (or at least on this forum).

[molson]

Probably the final generation

I'm no social scientist, but I suggest the "good luck, suckers!" Generation

[ISiddiqui]

Its pretty clear to me now that it was never Boomers vs Millennials. Its really Boomers vs Gen X (or at least on this forum).

I mean this is a bulletin board for a text based football sim. How many millennials do you really think would be here?

[Edward64]

The Pepsi Generation

I think that was taken by the Boomers, Gen X or a subset of them. How about Pepsi One Generation?

EDIT: NVM, that would probably be Gen Z.

[Edward64]

I mean this is a bulletin board for a text based football sim. How many millennials do you really think would be here?

By the vitriol, I would have thought they were the majority. But instead a bunch of Gen X venting, using Millennials as their foil :)

[JediKooter]

I think that was taken by the Boomers, Gen X or a subset of them. How about Pepsi One Generation?

EDIT: NVM, that would probably be Gen Z.

Or how about the Crystal Pepsi Generation? It did make a comeback a couple of years ago :D

[spleen1015]

I just want to point out that there is an entire generation living now that hasn't seen the Lions win a playoff game.

One wonders how many generations will die off before another win is seen.

I saw a tweet last night talking about the yellow first down line was first seen on tv in 1998. There's an entire generation who don't know football prior to this.

Gen X here and I agree. I would have been in a lot of trouble had I had a cell phone camera in HS. Hell, when I was in the USAF(95-99), we had cell phone cameras a lot of us would have likely been kicked out of the military.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I mean this is a bulletin board for a text based football sim. How many millennials do you really think would be here?

If only there was something that could attract them, like ... a beer tent

[thesloppy]

Seeing baby boomers getting mad about "Ok, boomer" makes me laugh after hearing the disdain for millennials as being entitled, lazy, snowflakes the past few years.

It also seems worth mentioning that the boomer generation spent the entirety of their youth actively promoting unprecedented ageism against their parents' generation, and then transitioned to complaining about gen X's attitudes in the 80s and 90s, before they set their sights on millennials.

[ISiddiqui]

By the vitriol, I would have thought they were the majority.

Ok boomer :p

(in seriousness, those sort of comments about millennials is what birthed the ok boomer thing in the first place)

[ISiddiqui]

If only there was something that could attract them, like ... a beer tent

Who doesn't like a beer tent?

Of course I haven't played text based sports sims in almost a decade (yes, including FM)

[JediKooter]

It also seems worth mentioning that the boomer generation spent the entirety of their youth actively promoting unprecedented ageism against their parents' generation, and then transitioned to complaining about gen X's attitudes in the 80s and 90s, before they set their sights on millennials.

What was the boomer saying back then...never trust anyone over 30 or something like that?

[thesloppy]

What was the boomer saying back then...never trust anyone over 30 or something like that?

That was it!

[JediKooter]

That was it!

The old hard drive still works! haha!

Watching some documentaries about the 60s and how the hippies seemed like some sincere people that wanted to change the world for the better but then you realize they are the same people bitching about millennials trying to change things for the better.

[NobodyHere]

If only there was something that could attract them, like ... a beer tent

beer is one of the industries us millenials are killing dontcha know.

[Lathum]

beer is one of the industries us millenials are killing dontcha know.

You kids with your damn white claw.

[thesloppy]

The old hard drive still works! haha!

Watching some documentaries about the 60s and how the hippies seemed like some sincere people that wanted to change the world for the better but then you realize they are the same people bitching about millennials trying to change things for the better.

Yeah, for most of my life pop culture suggested that the boomer generation was characterized by Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda' in Easy Rider but history has suggested that maybe the hicks with the shotguns were the actual representatives of boomer culture.

[NobodyHere]

You kids with your damn white claw.

Is that any good?

[Lathum]

Is that any good?

Actually really good. Problem is you can easily put away 10-12 of them before you realize you're smashed.

[molson]

Actually really good. Problem is you can easily put away 10-12 of them before you realize you're smashed.

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

[tarcone]

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/64/cd/d0/64cdd0a811cfdcd0a26a99d7fcfb5ece.jpg

[Brian Swartz]

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

And deserve every bit of the mockery that garbage got the first time around.

I'm actually torn on what I mock more often though, the White Claw crowd or the IPA crowd. Neither have any working taste buds.

[BYU 14]

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

[Lathum]

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

Most boomers aren't built like brick shithouses either

[Edward64]

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

Bartles and James! Different when it came out but was never really a fan

[Carman Bulldog]

I remember if we were out, at the movies or something, and it was time to get picked up we would collect call our parents. When the call went through and the operator was asking if they would accept it we would just yell over them "ready to be picked up!!" and hang up the phone.

Remember emergency breakthroughs before call waiting was the norm?

I did this as well. "I'm at the school, come pick me up" as fast as you could possibly say it.

[BYU 14]

Most boomers aren't built like brick shithouses either

:lol: :lol: :lol: Maintaining that is a whole other story, as I get ready for another shoulder surgery LOL

[Edward64]

What was the boomer saying back then...never trust anyone over 30 or something like that?

Looked up the originator of the saying, he was not a Boomer but part of the Silent Generation.

Jack Weinberg - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Weinberg)
Jack Weinberg (born April 4, 1940) is an environmental activist and former New Left activist who is best known for his role in the Free Speech Movement at the University of California, Berkeley in 1964.
:
Weinberg is the person who coined the saying "Don't trust anyone over 30".[21][22] The saying exists in several variants, such as "Never trust anybody over 30". Origination of the saying has been wrongly attributed to Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, the Beatles, and others. In November 1964, Weinberg was interviewed by a reporter[23] for the San Francisco Chronicle working on a story about the Free Speech Movement. Weinberg tells the story like this:

I was being interviewed by a newspaper reporter, and he was making me very angry. It seemed to me his questions were implying that we were being directed behind the scenes by Communists or some other sinister group. I told him we had a saying in the movement that we don't trust anybody over 30. It was a way of telling the guy to back off, that nobody was pulling our strings.[24]

On November 15, 1964, the Chronicle printed the story, quoting Weinberg as saying "We have a saying in the movement that you can't trust anybody over 30."[10]

Jack Weinberg uttered the phrase – which became one of the most memorable expressions of the turbulent 1960s era – during the height of the Free Speech Movement at UC Berkeley. The Free Speech Movement was a struggle by students over the right to engage in political speech on campus, which helped to catalyze broader political activism on campuses around the country over student rights, civil rights and the Vietnam War.

[thesloppy]

That seems like a technicality to me. I would consider someone who spent the entirety of their 20s in the 60s a boomer. YMMV.

[Butter]

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

Ok Boomer

[Edward64]

That seems like a technicality to me. I would consider someone who spent the entirety of their 20s in the 60s a boomer. YMMV.

1940 vs 1946 so 6 years is a pretty big difference according to the wiki definition. If he was on the cusp/edge (like many of us have already stated we are) then sure. The phrase was coined by a Silent Generation guy as the Boomer generation was growing up.

[Edward64]

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

I do agree it doesn't seem ageism carries the same weight as racism, sexism, homophobisms (?) etc.

My guess is many blame the older generations for the faults of today and therefore they deserve it. Obviously there is blame just like there was blame in all the previous generations, and just like there will be blame placed on the Millennials by Generation Z and the "Crystal Pepsi" Generation and on and on.

[Brian Swartz]

Ok Boomer

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

[NobodyHere]

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

Ok, Late GenX'er

[thesloppy]

My guess is many blame the older generations for the faults of today and therefore they deserve it. Obviously there is blame just like there was blame in all the previous generations, and just like there will be blame placed on the Millennials by Generation Z and the "Crystal Pepsi" Generation and on and on.

There is some truth in that, but what is unique about the boomers is that they upset the population curve.

There are still more boomers than gen xers or millennials in the US even right now. As such they have held more cultural, economic and political influence than every other generation for the entirety of their lives, and two entire generations below them have essentially had their turns "in charge" skipped over due simply to the Boomers' collective size. The argument that they are especially to blame for all of today's faults is pretty strong.

https://i.imgur.com/SPpreqf.png

As such, any cries about ageism from boomers sound kind of hollow, like wealthy white men who complain of reverse-racism. It's hard to muster up much sympathy when the group collectively holding the most power and money wants to cry discrimination.

Noting the size of Generation Z, and the fact that they just started to cross over into voting & buying age, I'd imagine we're going to start to see some significant shifts in the coming years.

[Brian Swartz]

By the numbers on your own chart, excluding Generation Z entirely, boomers account for less than a third of the electorate. Even less than that if you add in the first few years of Z. They also have nearly-identical numbers to Milennials. Nevermind that they have never been a majority of the country at any time. In other words, anything stupid they've done, they've had a lot of help doing from others. I find your conclusions unwarranted.

The even more fundamental point is that discrimination isn't wrong because the group being discriminated against has or doesn't have power/influence/etc. When it's wrong, it's wrong because discriminating in certain ways is wrong regardless of who it's done to. Period.

[Fidatelo]

https://pics.me.me/just-remember-for-every-boomer-that-hates-a-millennial-theres-42202124.png

[Fidatelo]

I'm a late X'er (77). I relate more to X'ers but feel sort of a small amount of impostor syndrome because the early-mid X'ers are the ones that truly got screwed in terms of jobs coming out of school, which tends to be a lot of what drove the angst and attitude that defines the generation.

For kids from about 75 on the economy was starting to pick up again as they came out of high-school/college and we ramped into the Dot-Com era. So while I definitely identify with the culture in terms of music and clothing and fully appreciate where the morals and attitudes of my generation come from I do feel like I sort of 'skipped over' the actual struggles.

[Edward64]

https://pics.me.me/just-remember-for-every-boomer-that-hates-a-millennial-theres-42202124.png

Hah, the stuck in-between image that came to mind was Prince Charles, king in waiting, to get his inheritance (why won't she pass away!) and figuring out why his son married "her".

I know Charles obviously isn't Gen X but thought I would toss out that analogy for some levity. BTW, finished watching The Crown s3. Don't know how accurate Charles & Camilla's portrayal is in the series but I did feel a lot of sympathy for them.

I hope that William & Kate turn out well (looking good so far) and very much hope that Charlotte, George and Louis are allowed to pursue and marry who they really want to marry.

[Butter]

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

Same actually

[thesloppy]

By the numbers on your own chart, excluding Generation Z entirely, boomers account for less than a third of the electorate. Even less than that if you add in the first few years of Z. They also have nearly-identical numbers to Milennials. Nevermind that they have never been a majority of the country at any time. In other words, anything stupid they've done, they've had a lot of help doing from others. I find your conclusions unwarranted.


I think you'd have the beginnings of a fair argument if we both agreed to entirely ignore the mountain of obvious evidence pointing at who has held & wielded that money, power & influence over the last 50 years.

As far as discrimination goes, I'd argue that Boomers aren't being discriminated against because of their age in any way. They aren't being judged as being inferior because they are old, nor have they ever been denied any kind of services or rights that other groups enjoy (quite the opposite, in fact). They are being judged negatively for deliberately and systematically hoarding power and resources at the cost of two entire generations. Trying to paint that as analogous to racism is a painfully long stretch.

[PilotMan]

Boomers swallowed the silent generation, much the same as the combination of Millennials will swallow X. Their rise to power began with the protests over being forced to go to war. This was after they had endured the grandeur and rise of the middle class in the post war, very prosperous 50's, and early 60's.



The revolts were their first attempt at taking power, and their sheer size coming to voting power did indeed drive the changes that we saw in the 60's regarding Civil Rights etc. They used power to create wealth for themselves in their "middle age" yuppie, greed 80's that saw the highest divorce rates, that they certainly didn't see.


Clinton became the poster child for everything Boomer as the first Boomer president. Aside from Obama (X) every president and a large portion of DC leadership are Boomers. They have effectively controlled the US, seeing that they are "taken care of" from every possible advantage that they could gift themselves. With the expansion of home ownership, they saw to it, that the interest on those loans was free from taxes (among other tax cuts or credits designed to help them along the way). They have effectively made sure that SS will last until 2030, where guess what, the last Boomer will turn 65! Shocker. The trump tax cuts expire when? 2030! Notice how any changes made these days technically 'grandfather' certain groups in?



Once they are out of power, all this debt, all this will be on every generation after them, and they won't care anymore. Having gone from having everything as kids, to having expanded everything in their favor all along the way, while taking from generations before and after (Pensions anyone?)

So no, I don't have a lot of respect for the leadership that helped to put that in place. It's why having 3, 70+ candidates at the front again just, plain, blows.

[Radii]

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

That's really not how that works, which makes it even more hilarious to me |(not with you specifically, but with all the memes and comments about how Gen X'ers are immune to that, when its entirely about attitude/state of mind and not age/generation).

[cuervo72]

Eh, the Silent Generation isn't totally innocent here, nor are they exactly out of the picture. Mitch McConnell is not a boomer. Bernie (he and McConnell are 2 of 15 senators from the SG) and Biden - not Boomers. Rupert Murdoch? SG. Koch brothers, same. Sheldon Adelson? 86. The leader of AARP who popped off about having all the money? SG. (Anecdotal, but my boomer parents have a shit-ton less money than my Silent in-laws.) They still have considerable money and power.

[thesloppy]

I will admit to pretty much lumping the silent generation (or at least the last half of it?) in with the boomers. As the boomer name suggests, the accepted definitions are practically defined by World War II, whereas my personal divide is probably based more around popular cultural, for better or worse.

[Edward64]

I think there are 2 undertones in the posts I've read re: Boomers.


Boomers and how they have messed up later generations with their arguably misuse of economic and political leverage

Boomers and how they treat Millennials (and vice-versa)


For #1, condemnation of the Boomer generation as a whole doesn't make sense to me.

Can't blame really mom or grandma when they didn't have the economic and (for the most part) political power. Can't really blame Grandpa Juan or Auntie Li either.

So you are left with 40-50% of the Boomers to blame and of that how many of those are really guilty of screwing up your life?

Instead, I think many here mean to condemn the white, male and primarily Republican Boomers (and Silent) who held/hold the economic and political power.


For #2, same as its always been and does include mom, grandma, grandpa Juan and Auntie Li. Regardless of race, religion, country of origin etc. there's always this generational divide. Its more publicized, out there now because of social media

[thesloppy]

Sure, every single member of the boomer generation did not personally and deliberately manipulate the economic/political system for their own gain, nor did every single member of the boomer generation consistently vote to keep those structures in place.

That said, the basic concepts of business and political demography that you and Brian are arguing against are well established & widely accepted, and shouldn't have to be completely re-defined as any part of this argument.

[molson]

Has anyone ever declined a job or other opportunity to be fair to the next generation? Is that a thing that will be a moral value going forward?

[thesloppy]

Has anyone ever declined a job or other opportunity to be fair to the next generation? Is that a thing that will be a moral value going forward?

Certainly not. In this case I think the issue is that the generation in control of provisioning those jobs & opportunities, and the relative quantity & quality thereof, has remained static. If the boomer generation had followed the population curve of the surrounding generations an exchange of influence would have been unavoidable.

I will definitely agree/concede that the population hiccup that gave the boomers all of their influence & privilege was certainly not the result of any collective or individual choice or fault, for whatever that is worth. And as much as I can prattle on complaining about the population curve, the Boomers do also deserve some credit for not having kids at the rate of their parents & largely resetting the curve...that *was* a collective choice, and though it will cost my generation in influence it will likely serve all the following generations for the better.

[Edward64]

Sure, every single member of the boomer generation did not personally and deliberately manipulate the economic/political system for their own gain, nor did every single member of the boomer generation consistently vote to keep those structures in place.

Okay. So your beef isn't just about "white, male and primarily Republican Boomers", it really is about "blaming" the Boomer Generation as a whole for what I consider as faults of the few (e.g 10%).


That said, the basic concepts of business and political demography that you and Brian are arguing against are well established & widely accepted, and shouldn't have to be completely re-defined as any part of this argument.

I don't really know what "are well established & widely accepted". Can you provide a link for me to read your POV?

[albionmoonlight]

75% of this board is Gen X? I had no idea there were so many of us.

It's gonna be hilarious to watch the questions on this board slowly morph from queries about video games and big screen TVs into discussions about the best brands of dentures and artificial hips.

[Edward64]

... and what's up with the 5 that voted Trout anyway? We may now be in an eternal tie between Boomers and Millennials

[Ryche]

https://pics.me.me/just-remember-for-every-boomer-that-hates-a-millennial-theres-42202124.png

Gen X and fuck I hate that movie

[thesloppy]

Okay. So your beef isn't just about "white, male and primarily Republican Boomers", it really is about "blaming" the Boomer Generation as a whole for what I consider as faults of the few (e.g 10%).

Not really. My point was that when we are talking about judging the collective influence of a demographic of course we aren't talking about each particular individual. Certainly the folks in power and making influential decisions are only a tiny fraction of the generation in question, and of course I don't feel like Hispanic grandmothers are personally oppressing me, I'm just not sure why those clarifications are necessary.



I don't really know what "are well established & widely accepted". Can you provide a link for me to read your POV?

Demographics Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demographics.asp)

How Demographics Drive The Economy (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/012315/how-demographics-drive-economy.asp)

Boomer Effect (Baby Boomer Factor) Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/boomer-effect-baby-boomer-factor.asp)

Baby Boomer Age Wave Theory Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/baby-boom-age-wave.asp)

[Edward64]

Demographics Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demographics.asp)

How Demographics Drive The Economy (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/012315/how-demographics-drive-economy.asp)

Boomer Effect (Baby Boomer Factor) Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/boomer-effect-baby-boomer-factor.asp)

Baby Boomer Age Wave Theory Definition (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/baby-boom-age-wave.asp)

Thanks, did look thru them and it confirms the definition of boomers and some characteristics. Didn't see anything re:

They are being judged negatively for deliberately and systematically hoarding power and resources at the cost of two entire generations.

I know some about the "wave theory", maybe not in those terms but its pretty logical to assume. But again, nothing about how Boomers and older screwed up the Millennials or the world.

Dychtwald's theory suggested that due to the size and tendencies of the baby-boom generation, this population had the power to transform consumer trends and life stages. Significant market shifts across a range of industries have been associated with the age wave, including the impact on the manufacture and sales of suburban homes, fast food, gym equipment, toys, minivans, and SUVs.

Noting the impact of the baby boomers, Dychtwald claimed that their aging will likely result in a shift in consumer activity from youth-focused products toward products and services catering to the old. Eventually, he warned that the age wave will put a strain on the economy as the baby boomers draw a pension and experience health issues.

[thesloppy]

Thanks, did look thru them and it confirms the definition of boomers and some characteristics. Didn't see anything re:



I know some about the "wave theory", maybe not in those terms but its pretty logical to assume. But again, nothing about how Boomers and older screwed up the Millennials or the world.

See PilotMan's post above. The slow disintegration of Social Security, Pensions, home ownership and any kind of retirement is hardly underground news. Some manner of conflict between the generations & transitions is surely constant and inevitable, as you have suggested, but the boomers' parents left them a world of financial opportunity & relative privilege, and they did not secure the same for the generations that followed. Much like the concept of "White Privilege" that kind of collective & situational privilege is hard to dissect on an entirely granular, individual level....millions of boomers of color who fought through the civil rights movement, vietnam veterans, and/or women of that era would probably bristle at the idea of any of today's relatively young adults labeling them as any kind of privileged individual, but in the (narrow but crucial) terms of something like collective financial security it certainly applies.

"Roughly 80% of S&P 500 companies have baby boomer CEOs and approximately one-third of that group is 65 or older.....Eighty percent of the U.S. House of Representatives and 86% of the Senate are aged 50 or older (this also includes the approximately 15-20% who are older than the baby boomers). In the White House, baby boomers have served as president since 1993, when Bill Clinton took office":

What Would a Transfer of Power from Baby Boomers to Generation X Look Like? (https://insight.factset.com/what-would-a-transfer-of-power-from-baby-boomers-to-generation-x-look-like)

[MIJB#19]

... and what's up with the 5 that voted Trout anyway? We may now be in an eternal tie between Boomers and MillennialsI went with trout option because generally I don't like generalizations, hence, I usually refuse to call myself a whatsoever.

Initially I thought the Netherlands had a similar population pyramid, they are similar, but on further look there are different peaks. In the Netherlands the largest peaks is at 1964 and 1969 (and around them), in the USA the big peak is at 1990-1994. Cultures obviously vary as well, although the arrival of internet has made the cultures slightly more similar than they already were.

In the end, I had no other option than abstaining, the quoted Wikipedia article disqualified me from being the target audience.

[Ryche]

Age by Year Visualization (https://demography.dola.colorado.gov/Age-Animation-Bars/)

So many boomers

[Edward64]

I went with trout option because generally I don't like generalizations, hence, I usually refuse to call myself a whatsoever.

Initially I thought the Netherlands had a similar population pyramid, they are similar, but on further look there are different peaks. In the Netherlands the largest peaks is at 1964 and 1969 (and around them), in the USA the big peak is at 1990-1994. Cultures obviously vary as well, although the arrival of internet has made the cultures slightly more similar than they already were.

In the end, I had no other option than abstaining, the quoted Wikipedia article disqualified me from being the target audience.

Is there a similar Boomer vs Millennials dynamic going on in Netherlands?

[JediKooter]

Yeah, for most of my life pop culture suggested that the boomer generation was characterized by Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda' in Easy Rider but history has suggested that maybe the hicks with the shotguns were the actual representatives of boomer culture.

Or they turned into the hicks? At least I think that's what happened to my mom, haha!

[JediKooter]

Looked up the originator of the saying, he was not a Boomer but part of the Silent Generation.

Jack Weinberg - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Weinberg)

Very interesting. Never really knew the story behind the saying. In context it totally makes sense on why he said it. Out of context, I can see why it may have become some sort of rallying cry for the peace movement.

[JediKooter]

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

Wait...hold up a sec now...1963? Man I would have bet, good hard earned, cold American dollar bills and said no earlier than 1969.

[Brian Swartz]

As far as discrimination goes, I'd argue that Boomers aren't being discriminated against because of their age in any way. They aren't being judged as being inferior because they are old, nor have they ever been denied any kind of services or rights that other groups enjoy (quite the opposite, in fact). They are being judged negatively for deliberately and systematically hoarding power and resources at the cost of two entire generations. Trying to paint that as analogous to racism is a painfully long stretch.

Probably a good thing that I said nothing about racism whatsoever then, isn't it? The obvious evidence, well-established and widely-accepted as you state, is not at all convincing to me. And even if it was, it still wouldn't justify throwing the entire generation under the bus. There are many examples on these forums of people (rightly-so) criticizing certain groups or regions for large numbers of them believing in manifest, provable false-hoods. Something being widely-accepted doesn't make it true.

Certainly the folks in power and making influential decisions are only a tiny fraction of the generation in question, and of course I don't feel like Hispanic grandmothers are personally oppressing me, I'm just not sure why those clarifications are necessary.

Would you find such clarifications necessary if someone said blanket things about the poor/underclass, women, or other groups? Certainly most in this forum would, and if they were offered after the fact they'd be viewed with a great deal of suspicion. Why are boomers different?

The slow disintegration of Social Security, Pensions, home ownership and any kind of retirement is hardly underground news. Some manner of conflict between the generations & transitions is surely constant and inevitable, as you have suggested, but the boomers' parents left them a world of financial opportunity & relative privilege, and they did not secure the same for the generations that followed. … "Roughly 80% of S&P 500 companies have baby boomer CEOs and approximately one-third of that group is 65 or older.....Eighty percent of the U.S. House of Representatives and 86% of the Senate are aged 50 or older (this also includes the approximately 15-20% who are older than the baby boomers). In the White House, baby boomers have served as president since 1993, when Bill Clinton took office"

Here's the most succinct statements of the previously-mentioned evidence I can find in this thread, and I salute you for them. Here's the thing: I don't think any of it is compelling at all in terms of backing up the stated position.

** % of people elected to high office. As mentioned before, boomers have been a minority of the electorate the entire time. Therefore other generations have mostly put this group of people in power. What matters is those voting for them, not those in office, because the power belongs to the people who utilize it through action or inaction, as they choose. If any of the things that were done were things they didn't like, they had the choice to replace them with other representatives. That hasn't happened, which means they are either in favor of or apathetic towards those policies. If the two generations coming after boomers have been oppressed, it has been an oppression literally of their own making.

** Disintegration of any kind of retirement: hardly. The average retirement age rose from 57 in the early 90s to 62 in recent years. Over the same time period, life expectancy rose from approx. 75 to 79 years, an extremely similar increase. On average, people continue to have a typical expectation of 15-20 years of retired living.

** Pensions are indeed largely a thing of the past, but that has more to do with globalization and larger economic forces. There's no reasonable set of policies that I know of that would have stopped this from happening. People don't stay at the same job nearly as long as they used to. We're transitioning from an industrial to an information-based economy, and that's the main why here. That genie isn't going back in the bottle no matter what anyone does. The world has/is changed/changing, and we have to change with it. Major transitions like this always cause problems. It's also true that the total value of compensation to employees has continued to rise even while wages have stagnated, with the rising cost of healthcare outpacing standard-of-living increases being the main reason.

** Home Ownership is actually not down all that much at all. It peaked at about 70 percent in 2005 and the latest numbers I've seen are 63 percent. This is also at least primarily a self-inflicted wound; people are marrying in fewer numbers and at later ages, removing one of the primary incentivizers to home ownership and of course single people generally have less buying power than married couples. There are many economic disruptions prompted by the breakdown of the family, this is just one of them but other than arguably not doing a great job raising their children, I don't see how this is the fault of boomers.

** Social Security has a some truth to it, but it's also long been known that simply by virtue of existing, boomers were going to cause pressure on the system. The generations that outnumber them have had every opportunity to put people in power that would raise taxes, stop raiding the trust fund, make other kinds of reforms, etc. They've chosen not to be that forward-thinking. The majority of the blame for that falls on them, not the boomers who have just as much right to the benefits of SS as anyone else.

[MIJB#19]

Is there a similar Boomer vs Millennials dynamic going on in Netherlands?I honestly had no freaking clue what you were talking about, I had never heard of this until this thread. Yes, I'm aware of the post WWII baby boom. I had trouble finding any articles from Dutch sources with a journalistic background, it failed. As a result, I'd like to say "no", but I can't be bothered to check or use hype internet media that are polluted with silliness and at some point it might fly over, if it hasn't already.

[ISiddiqui]

Would you find such clarifications necessary if someone said blanket things about the poor/underclass, women, or other groups? Certainly most in this forum would, and if they were offered after the fact they'd be viewed with a great deal of suspicion. Why are boomers different?

Why in the world would you think blanket things said about the rich and powerful are in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized? And why would you think discrimination is bad all the time, especially when it may be the rich and powerful who may be discriminated against? I just find this 'both sides' nonsense unreal.

[Edward64]

I honestly had no freaking clue what you were talking about, I had never heard of this until this thread. Yes, I'm aware of the post WWII baby boom. I had trouble finding any articles from Dutch sources with a journalistic background, it failed. As a result, I'd like to say "no", but I can't be bothered to check or use hype internet media that are polluted with silliness and at some point it might fly over, if it hasn't already.

Thanks for letting us know. Interesting there isn't at least "some" level of angst between the generations.

Must be more of a US thing.

[Edward64]

Why in the world would you think blanket things said about the rich and powerful are in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized? And why would you think discrimination is bad all the time, especially when it may be the rich and powerful who may be discriminated against? I just find this 'both sides' nonsense unreal.

I do not put "blanket things said about the rich and powerful in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized".

I do put "blanket things said about an entire generation in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized".

[ISiddiqui]

I do not put "blanket things said about the rich and powerful in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized".

I do put "blanket things said about an entire generation in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized".

A generation that has a lot of the wealth and power in our society, as others have pointed out. I don't think blanket things said about a privileged generation are even close to the same class as blanket things said about others. thesloppy's posts in thread, in particular, shed some light on the things said of 'boomers'. Especially considering the same clarifications were never put on criticizing 'millennials' (did anyone really ask if those people were criticizing Hispanic or East Asian millennials, for instance?).

[thesloppy]

Would you find such clarifications necessary if someone said blanket things about the poor/underclass, women, or other groups? Certainly most in this forum would, and if they were offered after the fact they'd be viewed with a great deal of suspicion. Why are boomers different?


Shrug. That's demographics for you. Would you bristle at the thought of judging the collective politics of 18-35 year olds? The argument that we should never ever judge Boomers collectively in a thread explicitly titled 'Boomers vs.Milenials' is less than compelling.

That said, it's certainly more compelling than your secondary argument that Boomers have always been a powerless minority.

[Edward64]

** Disintegration of any kind of retirement: hardly. The average retirement age rose from 57 in the early 90s to 62 in recent years. Over the same time period, life expectancy rose from approx. 75 to 79 years, an extremely similar increase. On average, people continue to have a typical expectation of 15-20 years of retired living.

I took "Retirement" to not mean # of people entering retirement or length of retirement. I took it to mean that many more people now are not going to have comfortable retirement due to likely SS cuts and possible other entitlement cuts due to "boomer irresponsibility, negligence etc."

There are many articles out there that says people have not saved enough to enjoy a comfortable retirement. Although boomer "rich & powerful" do play a role here, there are many other factors that have impacted this.

[ISiddiqui]

Shrug. That's demographics for you. Would you bristle at the thought of judging the collective politics of 18-35 year olds? The argument that we should never ever judge Boomers collectively in a thread explicitly titled 'Boomers vs.Milenials' is less than compelling.

Indeed. I mean how many times have people talked about "The Youth Vote", without specifying which youth they mean. If we were to be utterly pedantic about every discussion then it'd be a debate about terms. Of course when those in privilege criticize those without, then we don't have to differentiate, as opposed to vice-versa.

[Edward64]

A generation that has a lot of the wealth and power in our society, as others have pointed out. I don't think blanket things said about a privileged generation are even close to the same class as blanket things said about others.

The boomer wealth and power was focused on a minority (I'm swagging 10%, feel free to disagree) that could effect change. Call it pedantic to try clarify but I think this is a key data point if you are trying to get to a root cause(s).

My guess is you are not really talking about the boomer generation, you are really accusing the rich and powerful, white, male boomers/silent. If stated in this way, I would actually agree with you that much of the blame (but probably not as much as you would like to place on them) rests with of them.

thesloppy's posts in thread, in particular, shed some light on the things said of 'boomers'. Especially considering the same clarifications were never put on criticizing 'millennials' (did anyone really ask if those people were criticizing Hispanic or East Asian millennials, for instance?).

Whereas we can find multiple example of board member's vitriol against boomers, can you share examples of same/similar vitriol against millennials from board members? I honestly do not remember reading anything that would be equivalent but am ready to be corrected.

If I say negatives about millennials, I would hope it was accurate in the sense it did apply to a good a majority of them, or that I would have qualified my answer in some appropriate way.

[thesloppy]

I think this is still an issue of semantics. I don't directly 'blame' every member of the boomer generation for the changes that have taken place while folks from their generation was in control, but I do 'blame' them for not acknowledging their collective & unique (economic) privileges whenever they talk about the generations.

[Edward64]

Shrug. That's demographics for you. Would you bristle at the thought of judging the collective politics of 18-35 year olds? The argument that we should never ever judge Boomers collectively in a thread explicitly titled 'Boomers vs.Milenials' is less than compelling.

Not sure if "bristle" is the right word but if I heard this level of generalization, I would know I'm missing a lot of context/accuracy. I've read enough Pew research articles to try understand more demographics about them - their ethnicity, educational level, gender, possibly wealth etc. comes to mind.

That said, it's certainly more compelling than your secondary argument that Boomers have always been a powerless minority.

I like the re framing attempt but the contention is that a minority of rich and powerful Boomers could effect the changes that you believe screwed up the country.

The slow disintegration of Social Security, Pensions, home ownership and any kind of retirement is hardly underground news.

Of the above, I don't see how you can blame the boomer generation of those ailments (you can blame the rich and powerful, white, male boomers though for some).

[Brian Swartz]

Why in the world would you think blanket things said about the rich and powerful are in the same class about blanket things about the poor and marginalized?

Basic logical consistency. If it's wrong to judge by the group, it's wrong no matter how one defines the group. Otherwhise we're into special pleading territory, in which case the question must be asked; what criteria are to be used to decide whether it's ok to judge by the group or not? It's even more obvious than usual that this is a bad idea in this particular case, because we're using a generational bound here. Any class we might wish to single out for special protection is going to be present, whether that's done by economic status, race/ethnicity, gender, religious identification, you name it - there are boomers by all of those stripes. If it's wrong to throw ANY of those groups under the bus, then it's also wrong to do so generationally since you're going to hit some of the same people.

The argument that we should never ever judge Boomers collectively in a thread explicitly titled 'Boomers vs.Milenials' is less than compelling.

That said, it's certainly more compelling than your secondary argument that Boomers have always been a powerless minority.

That's a nice little straw man at the end there; I never said powerless. On the first part there, the whole point is that I reject the premise of the thread that it is ok to judge people in such manner. As to whether it'd be ok to judge 18-35 year-olds? That's exactly the same issue, yes it's just as wrong.

[ISiddiqui]

Whereas we can find multiple example of board member's vitriol against boomers, can you share examples of same/similar vitriol against millennials from board members? I honestly do not remember reading anything that would be equivalent but am ready to be corrected.

If I say negatives about millennials, I would hope it was accurate in the sense it did apply to a good a majority of them, or that I would have qualified my answer in some appropriate way.

Vitriol is a response to condescension. And this board has been condescending at times to millennials (sometimes pitying them) and have lumped them all in together. Here is one thread that shows some of those perspectives: Millennials struggling to find their financial footing - Front Office Football Central (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=91334)

[Edward64]

I think this is still an issue of semantics. I don't directly 'blame' every member of the boomer generation for the changes that have taken place while folks from their generation was in control,

Would you care to state a approx % of boomers you do blame?

[ISiddiqui]

Basic logical consistency. If it's wrong to judge by the group, it's wrong no matter how one defines the group. Otherwhise we're into special pleading territory, in which case the question must be asked; what criteria are to be used to decide whether it's ok to judge by the group or not? It's even more obvious than usual that this is a bad idea in this particular case, because we're using a generational bound here. Any class we might wish to single out for special protection is going to be present, whether that's done by economic status, race/ethnicity, gender, religious identification, you name it - there are boomers by all of those stripes. If it's wrong to throw ANY of those groups under the bus, then it's also wrong to do so generationally since you're going to hit some of the same people.

No. As pointed out consistently, we know who we are talking about and it is only when barbs are thrown at the priviledged do folks step back and say, wait, wait, wait, you can't judge by groups. Even though it's done plenty to those who are marginalized. For example, we've talked about millenials plenty and no one as far as I can remember has done a "Not ALL millenials" type of thing. In the thread I linked for Edward64 - we didn't have a discussion of which milennials we are talking about here. No one said that only applies to X% of millennials.

Why is that, I wonder?

[ISiddiqui]

Actually I did a search of posts with "boomer" on them and aside from this thread there is very little vitriol towards boomers on this forum. Here and there, but sparingly at best. And then some posts about Boomer Esiason.

[Edward64]

Vitriol is a response to condescension. And this board has been condescending at times to millennials (sometimes pitying them) and have lumped them all in together. Here is one thread that shows some of those perspectives: Millennials struggling to find their financial footing - Front Office Football Central (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=91334)

Thanks for the link. I'll read it through more carefully and respond later.

Good to see that Brian and I are not in that thread so we can't be accused of accusing/generalizing millennials out of context (or at least in that thread).

[Brian Swartz]

It's just as wrong with Milennials obviously, but nothing in your statement addresses the fact that there are a lot of Boomers who aren't privileged. I don't think I posted anything in the thread you linked, probably becasuse I wasn't active on the board at the time.

it is only when barbs are thrown at the priviledged do folks step back and say, wait, wait, wait, you can't judge by groups. Even though it's done plenty to those who are marginalized

Yeah, that's just not true as I referenced in my first statement on this subject and have alluded to since. When you say something about the unprivileged, women, certain ethnic or religious groups, etc. the call goes out repeatedly and predictably. I have no objection to that at all - I'm just saying let's use it equally. I'm not sure in what universe it is true that blanket statements about unprivileged groups go unchallenged in general, but it sure as shootin' isn't this board.

[Edward64]

Actually I did a search of posts with "boomer" on them and aside from this thread there is very little vitriol towards boomers on this forum. Here and there, but sparingly at best. And then some posts about Boomer Esiason.

I was thinking I needed to dig some up and quote them. Will respond later but might be another one of those Malala vs Greta where we'll just have to agree to disagree on "vitriol".

Here's the definition of vitriol

vitriol - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vitriol)
vitriol

abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will

[thesloppy]

I really don't know what to tell you guys that are railing against the entire concept of demographics and/or how they have been used to drive politics & economics.

[ISiddiqui]

I really don't know what to tell you guys that are railing against the entire concept of demographics and/or how they have been used to drive politics & economics.

It only seems to be an issue when it applies to privileged groups. We hear plenty about how millennials are into x, y, and z; how certain regions like this or that; how certain genders or ethnicities are into various entertainment/vote certain ways/like x or y brands. And there is very little push back into that unless it tends to false stereotypes rather than a utilization of demographic data.

[Chief Rum]

Brian, I walked away from a similar fight with a few of the pisters here just a few days ago. It's not worth it.

Some people will do anything they can to keep the ability to call others out for mass statements about groups while not seeing how they rationalize away themselves doing the same thing.

Most of these posters are to the left of the aisle.

[thesloppy]

Would you all be similarly offended if I started talking about judging the Khmer Rouge (purely to avoid invoking Godwin's law for once) collectively, or is the idea that groups of people necessarily can't be judged ridiculous?

If the root of your argument is actually that is more socially acceptable to judge some groups than others, and some heavy nuance is required, than I will certainly agree with you, but it's still a looooong way from the supposed point of this discusssion.

For what little it is worth, you are certainly free to judge Gen Xers collective political history, as far as I am concerned.

[Edward64]

Would you all be similarly offended if I started talking about judging the Khmer Rouge (purely to avoid invoking Godwin's law for once) collectively, or is the idea that groups of people necessarily can't be judged ridiculous?

If the root of your argument is actually that is more socially acceptable to judge some groups than others, and some heavy nuance is required, than I will certainly agree with you, but it's still a looooong way from the supposed point of this discusssion

I make a distinction between societal (?) or generational differences vs blame. Sure its okay to have a conversation and say "Millennials start families later in life" and then I would hope we would explore "is this real, what are possible reasons, future implications" etc.

When you place blame all (seemingly) woes of the country on a generation, there needs to be a higher level of rigor.

Khmer Rouge is a good example. I visited Cambodia and had many conversation with locals and inevitably the question came up about how they can live with people that were former Khmer Rouge. The answer was "Khmer leadership was very bad. Most of the Khmer soldiers had to do what they did otherwise they would be killed." So just an example of how we need to put things in context and not over generalize.

For what little it is worth, you are certainly free to judge Gen Xers collective political history, as far as I am concerned.

Thanks. I will try to do it in proper context and supporting research.

I would appreciate an answer to this?

Would you care to state a approx % of boomers you do blame?

[thesloppy]

Would you care to state a approx % of boomers you do blame?

I do hesitate to answer this because I still think we're defining 'blame' differently. I think a percentage much less than one point actively implemented changes that were explicitly meant to enrich themselves and ignore other people. I think 10% might be an accurate number in regards to people that actively % knowingly supported those policies, and I think 100% of the boomers were privileged, in some manner, to grow up under those conditions.

For example the fact that an individual,, poor boomer could never afford to buy a house does not affect the fact that houses were drastically more affordable during that Boomer's life.

[thesloppy]

I still tink it goes back to privilege. If this thread were just entitled 'Boomers' rather than "Boomers vs. Millenials' I think the conversation would be less of a conflict. The latter implies the two groups are being compared on equal ground and as such it seems completely germane to point out that it isn't a fair comparidon whenever applicable.

[thesloppy]

And then some posts about Boomer Esiason.

I think we can all agree THAT Boomer is fair game!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
Actually I did a search of posts with "boomer" on them and aside from this thread there is very little vitriol towards boomers on this forum. Here and there, but sparingly at best.
I was thinking I needed to dig some up and quote them. Will respond later but might be another one of those Malala vs Greta where we'll just have to agree to disagree on "vitriol".

Here's the definition of vitriol

vitriol - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vitriol)
Quote:
abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will

Here's a sampling in Trump Presidency, Democratic and this thread. I did a search on "boomer" and also "generation". The results below are from 7 different posters.

Quote #1
I mean I live in a state that boomers destroyed. Gave themselves all sorts of goodies. Didn't bother paying into the pensions either. Now they're living the good life or moved down to Florida and the rest of us are stuck footing the bill.

My favorite is when they lecture those millennials about how lazy they are. The generation that has accomplished nothing besides giving themselves free shit at the expense of their children talking about laziness.

Quote #2
That generation needs to be shown the door in the most expedient way possible.

Quote #3
Ehh..the AARP has opposed a bunch of these bills and it didn't matter. They'll put stuff in their newsletters but they don't have the lobbying power of private equity firms.

The thing with SS and Medicare is the cuts won't come down till a decade or later down the line. They did this with the health bill and even tax bill. People on it will get their cut now and screw over the next generation.

This is why baby boomers are the worst generation this country has ever had.

Quote #4
The fight is not against rich and poor and D and R. It is time to vote out as many boomers as possible because they've totally ran the country into the ground while building a giant and often times untouchable nest egg for themselves.

Holy shit YES!!!

Quote #5
My response: "there is not."

The response of mankind at various points throughout history: "As long as I get mine, everybody else can fuck off."

That's more or less what history tells us this conversation always boils down to. Individuals can do amazing things in defense of the marginalized.

The Baby Boomers have been spectacular in this regard.

Quote #6
They cry about their SS after crying about paying for it. It's no secret that the trump tax cuts expire after all boomers have left the workforce, and why no congressional leadership will touch the reduction in benefits necessary to fix SS until everyone has gotten into it. The year 2030 will be landmark year and the cherry on top for all the ways the boomers fucked us.

Quote #7
Boomers added life expectancy and refusal to retire, remain in power has really fucked everyone else. They just clog the pipeline. They were able to move up the chain faster with a greatly expanding economy, rode out the downturns with those positions and now, thanks to the last recession refuse to leave.

Quote #8
I wonder if enough boomers have died in the last 4 years to make a noticeable difference in the outcome of the election.

Quote #9
Yeah, it is hurtful and that's the fucking point. They've built an entire party around being against minorities and "outrage culture" etc., so they can fuck off with being offended by jack shit

Quote #10
I don't agree with Pete on everything, but you know what? He's from my generation, and that puts him ahead of the oldsters. Bernie and Liz Have Plans. Cool. They can shape the legislation, Pete can sign it, and the boomers can fuck right off into political retirement as far as the White House goes

[Edward64]

I do hesitate to answer this because I still think we're defining 'blame' differently. I think a percentage much less than one point actively implemented changes that were explicitly meant to enrich themselves and ignore other people. I think 10% might be an accurate number in regards to people that actively % knowingly supported those policies, and I think 100% of the boomers were privileged, in some manner, to grow up under those conditions.

I agree with your swags. I'm sure you are struggling on why your POV is not getting through to me and I am wondering the same.

At work, emails chains often gets lost in translation. We need to do a FOF meetup and hash out all our differences in person from the past 20 years.

For example the fact that an individual,, poor boomer could never afford to buy a house does not affect the fact that houses were drastically more affordable during that Boomer's life.

I do think Boomers were privileged compared to the generations before.

With that said, I actually think Millennials and Gen Z are more privileged now than Boomers. I don't mean it in a spoiled kid sense but in opportunities. So many more opportunities (and traps to take one down the wrong path) now than ever before. The biggest counter is amount of debt which I do agree can be attributed, in a large part, to the subset of boomer "rich and powerful".

[molson]

With that said, I actually think Millennials and Gen Z are more privileged now than Boomers.

Ya, I was posting about that in the thread ISiddiqui posted earlier. I'm maybe behind where my parents were at my age in some traditional metrics, but my standard of living is vastly better. I've been to 18 countries and all over this one - my parents only got our station wagon to Pennsylvania from Massachusetts when I was growing up. I enjoy conveniences of technology that they could only dream of. I have easier access to healthier and more varied food. My beer selection is exponentially better than my father's was. I have the ability to connect with the world in an instant and find new personal and professional opportunities - I think it's easy to underestimate the vast difference between that and say, being stuck in a small town in the 50s and facing what you had to do to expand your horizons then. Plus, when I was making my way to stability, they gave me a social safety net - I was never going to end up sleeping in my car or something if I lost my job or a risk didn't work out. They didn't have the same security net in place. Maybe that made them more conservative and better savers, contributing to the evils their generation gets blamed for.

Though, now, through saving and being frugal, they're doing really well. It is odd to think of "blaming" them for any way they've lived their life. The articles posted in that thread posited that as a terrible thing, that these awful boomers are hogging all these resources. But it's just hard to see the moral blame when you look at people at individual levels like my parents. They're liberal, they donate money, they've become a economic safety net for a few people at their church when their children didn't need that anymore. But yes, they paid off their house and built a solid nest egg.

We're seeing a pretty huge anti-boomer sentiment developing in Boise. It's getting a lot of coverage in the news now. Boise has long been a very inexpensive place where you can have a great quality of life. People are starting to figure out that, particularly retirees from wealthier states. So there's a huge backlash against people retiring, selling their California homes, moving here, driving up housing costs, and not otherwise contributing much. But are they supposed to stay where they, struggling with property taxes and reduced income, etc, just to be fair to the people in Idaho? If Boise becomes Portland or Seattle Jr. in the next 20 years, I'd certainly consider moving somewhere cheaper when I'm not bringing in full-time work income. I have no entitlement to things being the way they are now forever, and neither do the people in the cheaper area I may move to then and screw things up for those long-term residents.

We should all strive to be more generous, but it seems that people are judged more harshly for life decisions depending on what year they were born. But the needs and wants and desires for a good life and for stability and security are all the same. What did my parents and the millions like them so different than people in any other generation if faced with the same opportunities and challenges? Why wouldn't a millennial also want to move somewhere more desirable and less expensive to have a better life? Or put money away? A Boomer would probably be much more connected to important issues at a younger age if they could have just clicked a few buttons and connected with charities and social opportunities, and read different perspectives from around the world.

I'm very skeptical of the whole concept of generations. People born in different times obviously have different experiences, and the number of people born in each year can impact how a country and economy churn ahead. I just think it's a lot more fluid, that the people are more a product of their time than the other way around, and that generations are a pointless mechanism to evaluate people. I think of them more like waves, we all get picked up by one that we didn't choose, and we have to find our own way to not drown and make it to shore.

[ISiddiqui]

I might argue that 10 posts from the two of the longest political threads on this forum (one with over 20,000 posts!) and a thread specifically about boomers is sparingly (without getting into which is vitriolic and which is not). Not to mention I'd guarantee the vast majority of those posts are from Gen Xers.

[ISiddiqui]

We're seeing a pretty huge anti-boomer sentiment developing in Boise. It's getting a lot of coverage in the news now. Boise has long been a very inexpensive place where you can have a great quality of life. People are starting to figure out that, particularly retirees from wealthier states. So there's a huge backlash against people retiring, selling their California homes, moving here, driving up housing costs, and not otherwise contributing much. But are they supposed to stay where they, struggling with property taxes and reduced income, etc, just to be fair to the people in Idaho? If Boise becomes Portland or Seattle Jr. in the next 20 years, I'd certainly consider moving somewhere cheaper when I'm not bringing in full-time work income. I have no entitlement to things being the way they are now forever, and neither do the people in the cheaper area I may move to then and screw things up for those long-term residents.

That's just an anti-Californian backlash. I saw it in Montana when I visited a few years back (Whitefish/Kallispell area) - all the locals were sneering about Californians moving up or buying vacation homes. And how they didn't understand Montana and whatnot.

FWIW, no one protested that not all Californians are like that and only the richest ones were buying vacation homes ;).

[molson]

That's just an anti-Californian backlash. I saw it in Montana when I visited a few years back (Whitefish/Kallispell area) - all the locals were sneering about Californians moving up or buying vacation homes. And how they didn't understand Montana and whatnot.

FWIW, no one protested that not all Californians are like that and only the richest ones were buying vacation homes ;).

Haha, I think in Idaho, "Californian" has just become the term for any older people moving here, it doesn't matter where they're actually from (and the numbers show that people coming in aren't proportionally more likely to be from California than other places).

But one of my favorite things is people bitching about "Californians" when I know those people also moved here from somewhere else. It was OK for them to seek out a better life, but then they want to close the door behind them and judge others for doing the same. There's a Facebook/activist group called "Vanishing Boise" whose entire existence is bitching about this stuff - the head of it is from California.

[thesloppy]

I've lived in Portland for the last 40 years, so the anti-californian attitude is familiar, and probably does come from a similar place in emotion/mind.

[Edward64]

I might argue that 10 posts from the two of the longest political threads on this forum (one with over 20,000 posts!) and a thread specifically about boomers is sparingly (without getting into which is vitriolic and which is not).

7 different posters out of approx 70 active posters (of which maybe 30 ? are interested in participating in political discussions). Ignore it if you wish but I believe I have answered your question with the requisite data.

Not to mention I'd guarantee the vast majority of those posts are from Gen Xers.

Agreed. After the polling, it became obvious it was more of Boomer vs Gen X (okay "vs" may not be accurate) than Millennials. But that was never the point of contention.

[ISiddiqui]

7 different posters out of approx 70 active posters (of which maybe 30 ? are interested in participating in political discussions). Ignore it if you wish but I believe I have answered your question with the requisite data.

I didn't ask a question. I made a statement.

[JediKooter]

That's funny people bitching about blaming Californians for driving up housing prices...when it's the people selling the houses that are really the ones to blame. You don't want housing prices to go up...then don't sell the houses for more money then.

[thesloppy]

That's not entirely untrue, but in Portlands case, the city has been growing pretty consistently over the last 20 years and out-of-state developers are building & selling a lot of properties as well

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's a Facebook/activist group called "Vanishing Boise" whose entire existence is bitching about this stuff - the head of it is from California.

I'll chime in on this bit cause it seems relevant somehow to note that my once-rural / now-exurban hometown in north Georgia has a similar situation with northern transplants bitching about everyone who comes in behind them.
(the locals simply hate them all equally regardless of when they arrived)

So maybe transplants bitching about further transplants is "a thing" somehow.

[JediKooter]

That's not entirely untrue, but in Portlands case, the city has been growing pretty consistently over the last 20 years and out-of-state developers are building & selling a lot of properties as well

Ah that definitely makes sense. I never really understood much about housing prices other than location, but, it seems like that doens't matter too much anymore. Well, here in southern california that is.

[thesloppy]

It's an interesting phenomenan. The growth rate in Portland has been pretty high over the last couple decades. It used to feel like Portland was kind of the refuge for folks with West Coast leanings that didn't identify with Hollywood style extroversion and couldn't afford Seattle...it was the weird, poor version of the West coast. Over the recent past Portland became a destination, and the personality flipped a bit....suddenly you had more mainstream, richer folks moving to Portland, yet chasing their translation of Portland attitude. The result is that the current interation of the city feels a bit like Portland cosplay.

[Edward64]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
7 different posters out of approx 70 active posters (of which maybe 30 ? are interested in participating in political discussions). Ignore it if you wish but I believe I have answered your question with the requisite data.

I didn't ask a question. I made a statement.

Fair enough, let me rephrase per the above

7 different posters out of approx 70 active posters (of which maybe 30 ? are interested in participating in political discussions). Ignore it if you wish but I believe I have rebutted your statement with the requisite data.

[Radii]

Baby boomers are more sensitive than millennials, large study finds - Insider (https://www.insider.com/baby-boomers-are-more-sensitive-than-millennials-large-study-finds-2019-12)


:D :D :D

[Edward64]

To sum up 3 pages of discussions ... Shaft

(fun movie)