MUT22 - No Money Spent (Madden Ultimate Team) [Archive]

QuikSand

08-30-2021, 09:31 PM

In the space of a couple of weeks, I have managed to grind my way to a close-to-complete Browns "theme team."

Those who know my FOF ways will be unsurprised that I take full advantage of an in-game system that rewards you for building a roster deep with players from one NFL franchise. In Madden 21, we built Ravens and Dolphins teams. I committed to something new for this year, so I'm working with the Browns. I am now only a few players short of maxing out the current state of the team, at least as far as it's CLE players go.

Without belaboring it, here's a website that lays out a maximum-Browns roster as it is currently available in-game:

Cleveland Browns Theme Team Depth Chart - Madden 22 - MUT.GG (https://www.mut.gg/theme-teams/6/cleveland-browns/)

So, I have close to everyone there. I don't have RB Mostert - he's expensive in the auction house since he is both very fast and assignable to multiple NFL teams for theme purposes (he bounced around before getting a legit shot in SF). But since I have 86-rated Chubb and 82-rated Hunt, I'm basically okay for now at RB, so no major loss, my power running game is solid with a complete current Browns OL lineup that is 5-deep with quality players.

QuikSand

08-30-2021, 09:35 PM

So, that's kind of boring, to be honest. There's a little flexibility in play, and right now that's where all my creativity rests.

I'm abbreviating here, but the maximum benefit of a theme team is if you have 50 "points" toward team chemistry among your active players. Basically one point per player, a few guys are special bonuses, and there are a few non-player ways to gain them. I'm fully maxed out at 53 points, gaining all my Browns players a +2 on most of their relevant ratings like speed and strength. That's a nice advantage.

The downside of playing a pure theme team is that the roster will rarely be complete - you suffer in certain slots because there just aren't any good players. This CLE team is pretty solid, but it's pretty thin at FS, MLB, CB, and DT.

So, effectively I am playing a "50 Browns" team right now -- basically I want to build the best team I can while retaining the 50 points worth of team chemistry, but then filling in the roster where I can with non-CLE players to patch over the CLE weaknesses and improve the team overall.

More on the path to doing this effectively next time I find ten minutes to write.

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 09:56 AM

Here's the general lay of the land right now in Madden Ultimate Team (MUT):

-you start off with a barren roster, and by playing challenges they help you gradually fill it up with "decent" players .. instead of bottom-level players with overall ratings in the 60s, you start gaining guys with overall ratings in the 70s. There are multiple component ratings that add up to the overall, and some players are better/worse than their apparently overall due to that (e.g. a 79-rated WR who's unusually slow likely isn't worth as much as a 76-rated WR who happens to be unusually fast... "running away from another guy" is just an important skill in a game like this).

So... your first roster-building phase is upgrading from absolute trash (63-rated guy) to decent players rated 70+.

As you play challenges and other stuff, you accumulate coins and have enough equity to start pursuing things through the auction house, if you are willing. This is where the action is, for me. It's nominally a wide open marketplace with player cards (and other stuff, to get into later) are available for "auction."

Most of these auctions, to think in eBay terms, are basically just "Buy It Now" sales. Guy is listed for a stretch of time (1hr up to 1day) with a minimum price of, say, 7,800 gold... and the buy-it-now price is 7,900. So basically it's just a sale. A modest share of players are available in true auctions... either with vow minimum prices, no maximum prices, or both.

So... working the auction house is, in part, an exercise in recognizing value. I think I will re-post some items from my prior thread to save time, but this is where some legit angles come into play. And this is the part of the game that I genuinely enjoy.

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 10:57 AM

Now, building your team beyond "adequate" means pursuing players with skills above the 70s. This is where they turn this into a year-long effort.

Right now, each NFL team has a handful, maybe 8-12, players who have a Core Elite card... colored red, and rated in the 80-87 range. More or less connects to that player's overall perception/reputation, probably with a degree of subjective balancing injected.

My Browns have Elite cards for:

QB Mayfield
RB Chubb*, Hunt
FB Janovich
WR OBJ, Landry
3x OL Bitonio, Teller*, Conklin
DE Garrett*, Clowney
CB Ward*
SS Johnson

So... basically fits the mold, this should be a power running team, behind a good line, with solid skill position players. All these guys are 80-82 right now, the * players are higher than that.

At the moment, I possess all these cards, so my base Browns team is basically complete. A few details to explain, but I have the basics already in hand.

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 11:14 AM

Over the course of the year, the EA strategy is to dribble out content that constantly pushes your team to look for the next thing. Predictably. I don't mean this as criticism... I don't want to play a static game, I want to build. And if it took me six months just to build up to more or less the current Browns roster, that would likely fail my juice/squeeze test. So, this is fine. Right now, I have a roster that is basically maxed-out Browns, full team chemistry, and a few add-on players for specific reasons.

But over the course of just this week, they will squeeze out new sets of players (Wednesday, I think, will be some "Heavyweights" - likely high-80s players along the OL, DL, and FB positions), and continue with the Saturday release of the next installment of Legends (great players from history) with two more of them.

So, on this team... if they happen to drop something this week that fits my Browns team, like an 89-rated Ozzie Newsome... then I am VERY interested in that card. Maybe (they hope) enough so that I will spend real money to buy packs to open, or other such things (I will not) in pursuit of same. But that's the hook.

Essentially, it's the same ever-building feeling that I have had with old fashioned D&D-style role playing games... I need that better magic sword... then after I get that I want those boots that make you run faster... then after getting that I really need that armor with the magic aura... and after that...

JonInMiddleGA

08-31-2021, 11:23 AM

Does Madden have a "level up" mechanic? Ala "Parallels" in The Show?

(for the completely uninitiated, basically the more you use a card in The Show, you eventually gain 3-5 points to their overall)

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 11:35 AM

Here's a website that tracks this sort of thing... for the moment, ignore the players whos overall rating numbers are labeled in the non-standard brown colors. I will get to them in time.

Cleveland Browns Theme Team Depth Chart - Madden 22 - MUT.GG (https://www.mut.gg/theme-teams/6/cleveland-browns/)

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 11:38 AM

Does Madden have a "level up" mechanic? Ala "Parallels" in The Show?

(for the completely uninitiated, basically the more you use a card in The Show, you eventually gain 3-5 points to their overall)

Yes, but different. In Madden MUT it's not based on usage, but there are special cards for high-end players called Power Up cards. With those cards, you need to acquire and use Training Points and sometimes other versions of the same player to improve them up to their maximum ratings.

Note: there are some Madden diehards who prefer the system used in MLB:TS and lobby for it to port over to Madden... but alas, this year's game is apparently not much of an advance in much of its structure.

JonInMiddleGA

08-31-2021, 12:04 PM

Yes, but different. In Madden MUT it's not based on usage, but there are special cards for high-end players called Power Up cards. With those cards, you need to acquire and use Training Points and sometimes other versions of the same player to improve them up to their maximum ratings.

Note: there are some Madden diehards who prefer the system used in MLB:TS and lobby for it to port over to Madden... but alas, this year's game is apparently not much of an advance in much of its structure.

Got it.

Sorry for the multiple MLB:TS references, they're just really the only recent thing I have to compare to on console, my touchstone for getting it if you will.

QuikSand

08-31-2021, 03:02 PM

Not at all, glad for the interaction. I have resisted playing The Show mostly because I need another interesting/addictive thing in my life like I need a hole in the head. It's likely my cup of tea, and its clearly the closest relative to the Ultimate Team concept in Madden, many of the Madden contact creators also have a channel for The Show.

QuikSand

09-01-2021, 09:03 PM

So, in MUT there are multiple reasons someone might want to buy a particular player card. This is where the marketplace begins to get a little more complex.

1. To use the player. Duh. The player is good, or is otherwise helpful for a team, and the buyer wants to use the card. Obvious. Got it.

now, on to less obvious...

2. To use the card toward a "set" to obtain something of greater value. Very clever innovation in this game. All season long, as they introduce various cards and along with them, special paths to acquire them by completing sets of other cards.

and

3. To quick-sell for training points. In the game, many ways to boost the effectiveness of your cards rely on a secondary currency, Training. The principal way to get it is by selling cards back to the "house" to get a value, connected to the card's overall value. So, we all need training to some degree, and buying cards is a way to get it.

With that as a backdrop... this makes proper valuation of a given card a little bit slippery. We can start with Training... that's simple. An 80-rated player quicksells for 110 training. So, one way of valuing that card is knowing that without anything else in play, it's a way to buy that much training for whatever purpose. Effectively, we should see that as a sort of floor... even if the card is garbage on the field, it's still 110 training and if its price at market is a good one for that much training, then it's a value, even if the player is awful.

Now... easy enough to consider a card as "how good is the player to a team... but keep in mind that every 80-rated card is worth whatever I'd pay for 110 training." Sets make this much more complex.

Quick example. Right now, I have all the 70-something rated players I need. I have all the Browns there are, and I can't make on-field use of duplicates. So, why might I be interested in another copy of 72-rated Grant Delpit, at a 1,200 gold price, which (for context) is far too high to be a good value to quicksell him for training?

Because there's a special set out there. I can take 5x any gold-level players, put them into a set, and receive a special uniform, coach, stadium, or playbook for an NFL team. So, when I wanted to set up a Dolphins theme team (because of course I did) I needed to go and get these collectibles to my team will look like the Dolphins, and will get some theme bonuses along with them.

Now, I can buy these cards in the auction house, at varying prices...or I can complete this set of 5x gold cards and get whichever one I want. And there's the hidden value of my 72 guy... 5 of them and I get a uniform that is selling for, let's say, 8,000 gold. So, given that, the 1200 price now seems pretty nice.

More to build out from here, but the richness of this side of the game is starting to come into view.

QuikSand

09-02-2021, 12:06 PM

Instant case: with a total liquid bankroll of about 180,000 gold, this morning I was fiddling around the auction house, looking for good bargains...and stumbled on an 87-rated player priced substantially below the usual price for that level (63,000 gold, rather than around 75-80K). I grabbed him at that price... back to the notion above that I don't care who the player is, I know that an 87 will quicksell for 1,500 training, and right now I am pretty starved for training.

For the moment, I have him listed for sale around 80K (minus a house cut of 10% I'd get back 72K), and I'd be fine to just pocket the buy-low-sell-high profits there... but if that fails and I'm in the mood I may just convert him to training and use that to boost up a number of other players around my roster who need it.

So... the training price in action, as a floor for what a card is "worth." That ration of about 42 gold per training point is about as low as you can get right now.

QuikSand

09-03-2021, 12:30 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Campus Heroes ��<br><br>LIVE NOW ��<br><br>20 Players:<br>89 OVR (19) | 91 OVR Champion<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Madden22?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Madden22</a> <a href="https://t.co/oNm2PtdvvJ">https://t.co/oNm2PtdvvJ</a> <a href="https://t.co/IJw796gD3T">pic.twitter.com/IJw796gD3T</a></p>— Madden Ultimate Team (@EASPORTS_MUT) <a href="https://twitter.com/EASPORTS_MUT/status/1433842556509560843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 3, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So... latest announcement, a pretty big one, is a new series of players coming out today as Campus Heroes. As nearly as I can tell, this will be about 20? guys, nominally being included for their outstanding college careers (?) but who will come into the game with an unusual flexibility - they can have their team chemistry attach to any NFL franchise team where they played.

Sounds like their will mostly be 89-rated, placing them among the best cards in the game, and the capstone player is RB Reggie Bush, who will be a 91. There will, likely, be a series of in-game challenges and so forth that we can play out to earn one or more of these cards...and otherwise they'll just become part of the auction house milieu.

For my Browns team, limited good news here -- LB Carl Banks did play for CLE so he will be a fit for us chem-wise, but regrettably he is slotted as a LOLB, exactly the position where I already have a very effective JOK card in place. I will work it out (I typically line up in a nickel formation anyway) but that's a modest but surmountable disappointment, short term.

Anyway... this is the perpetual cycle of a theme-teamer... we focus primarily/exclusively on "what's in it for me?" and when the answer is "not much" that means the field is pulling ahead. That Reggie Bush card is going to be a terror, I reckon, for a while - they code him as a gifted receiver and agile in space, and his card last year early in the season was the dominant RB for a good while.

QuikSand

09-03-2021, 09:33 PM

I completed the grind-through of challenges in around an hour, enough to net me my choice of the 89-rated cards (who will now step in as tied for my highest rated card). Need to stew on this... Carl Banks is the "Browns Theme Team" pick, but... Vince Young would give me a wicked runaround QB and that would just be sweet right now with the state of this game. Might be hard to resist...

Travis

09-03-2021, 10:12 PM

Haven't played MUT in a few years but enjoying the read and very curious to see how you end up building your roster. Theme teams are a lot of fun but definitely tough to decide where to use those spots for non chem players. Good luck!

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 08:01 AM

So, I need to fill in some blanks here.

Yes, I have most of the Browns cards out there - enough to give my team the maximum benefit of +2 across multiple important skills. That's great. So far, I have shared the actual Browns players who are part of that.

In MUT, they also provide the gamer with a few build-around players as well, and these guys are definitely important in your roster building. They also provide you with an additional, but different, set of things to work toward - as they develop along separate tracks.

I'm not going to detail this too much, but here's a quick summary:

Team Captain - each year they have a handful of former greats who are available to serve as a team captain for you. You get him, and get to select your choice, early in a series of build-up challenges...and then over time you can be awarded special tokens to improve him. IIRC this year's choices included RB Shaun Alexander, SS John Lynch, and another defensive player I'm forgetting. But I chose the most impactful position available, and took WR Lance Alworth. In short order, he "powered up" to an 89 overall rating and has been by far my best player since. He also gets triple team chemistry for whatever franchise you like, so he counts as Browns x3 for purposes of achieving chemistry goals. HUGE.

If this year follow suit, he will be a dominant player early on, but over time his ceiling might not stay way ahead of what's available in the marketplace... like my Alworth remains an 89, which initially towered over my roster, but now there are a plenitude of 89 rated players popping up in the game, and it's no longer that special. On my NMS team, though, he'll be a standout for some time... I'm not investing cash to always have the bleeding edge packs/players.

There are two other programs that are similar. One is called, I think, "Team Champion" and he's the exact same player for everyone - SS Kam Chancellor this season. Over time we will earn collectibles that help us power him up to being a major consequential player. Right now he's my starting SS and I pull him forward to play LB in pass situations, but he's not a huge star - just 80 or 81 overall, I think.

The other program is named, but I'm forgetting it... and works similarly. There, we got a choice of two players, and I again selected the most impactful position, getting WR Devin Hester. He should eventually become a return game demon...right now he's an 84-rated wideout for us who is far more effective at "playing wide receiver" than his real life counterpart ever was.

So... on my team, WR Alworth, SS Chancellor, and WR/KR Hester are all build-around players themselves, who should continue to improve all season and stay relevant. All three contribute toward my team chemistry, and if I were to hypothetically build another theme team *cough*Dolphins*cough* I'd be able to realign them fairly easily to that franchise.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 08:04 AM

Another tiny note here...weekends in general, and Saturday mornings in particular, are busy times in MUT. They release a new set of "Legends" cards at 10:30am ET Saturdays, and that anchors a lot of players... plus it's a common "free time" for lots of people anyway.

For marketeers like me, that means lower prices in the auction house. It is a workable strategy to just buy good cards on the weekend (Saturday late morning especially) and just sell them during the upcoming week at a click or two higher prices. Have to have the gold to invest this way, but it's definitely do-able. So, I will hope to be doing some buying today.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 08:13 AM

The two new legends cards today don't really interest me much, nor will they set the world on fire... but they are high end cards regardless.

Pass-rushing LB Kevin Greene and OL Leonard Davis both arrive today in the standard Legends manner. There will be a special challenge game to play for each guy, and succeeding earns you his lowest-rated "Power Up" card, that can improve with training... and also allows you to assign team chemistry for any franchise the player actually played on during his NFL career. For Greene, that will include Rams, Steelers, Panthers, and 49ers... so he will be sought after by quite a few theme teamers due to that flexibility.

There will also be a number of "tiers" to these players...IIRC, this year it will be something like overalls of 83, 86, 88, and 90. And these cards are useful themselves, but also constitute parts of a set, that you can gather to receive the "boss legend" rated 91 overall and who completes the power-up cycle for that card. So... by tonight, the market house will be flooded with a lot of all these Kevin Greene cards. Saps like me might grab an 86 and make him a starter... others will quickly work to get the whole set, build (or just buy) that big 91 guy, use it to power up the lowest card to a max of 92 overall to complement a "god squad" roster for dominant online play.

Thus is the never-ending cycle in MUT. There's always something just out of reach. If I sit down today to play for an hour or two, I'll likely accomplish something here or there (like "Congratulations, you scored your 200th rushing TD") that earns me something in particular (like "here's a token you can use to boost up your Devin Hester card one more point")... in addition to just getting more gold and occasionally stuff like a free pack of cards to open, some training points, or whatnot.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 08:23 AM

One last piece of the roster puzzle (I think) is... late in the Madden 21 cycle, they created an incentive to (1) keep people interested in the game while it was naturally waning, and (2) push people to go buy Madden 22. They did this with a series of special cards you could earn with various challenges... and owning them on your EA account meant you'd get special rewards in the Madden 22 game. So, I played ball to some degree, and have the yield of that effort in hand.

They did this with ten special rookies selected from the 2021 draft, one from each major position group. I won't belabor this too much, but I essentially had a choice of: pick 3 of these guys to put onto my team as "highly rated" 86 (good enough to be among my best players, initially)... or pick 1 such guy and get his card in a format I could sell on the auction block.

I chose the three. I chose unwisely.

Regardless, I now have three very solid rookies, plus one more from the same set that I earned later by completing some challenges. I have basically just used these 86-rated guys to fill in spots that are weak on the natural Browns roster (including the add-on special veteran players I noted above), so I have:

86 FS Trevon Moehrig
86 MLB Micah Parsons
86 LOLB Jaelan Phillips
86 CB Jaycee Horn

So... this covers up a LOT of weakness on my defense right now. Over time, these 86 guys will not change in ability, and will erode from standouts (initially), to strong (now), to acceptable (soon), and eventually useless (December).

I failed to do my homework and see how (oddly) desirable these cards would be in the market... for some reason they were selling for over 250,000 gold, and had I selected just one sell-able card, I think I'd be better off for having done so. Alas, I have these guys and admittedly they have made my defense good enough to win a number of early game challenges that likely would have been tough without them.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 08:25 AM

Okay... that mostly catches you up on where I am. Nearly all the Browns cards (still lacking SS John Johnson, and a couple other veterans who could have Browns chemistry but wouldn't materially improve my current roster). Mix in these 4x 86-rated rookies, and my 3x high-rated special players, and that's basically what I'm running with right now.

The dilemma ahead: use my (non-sellable) "choice" among these 89-rated Campus Heroes to take Carl Banks at a position where I don't really need him? Or take a non-chem guy in QB Vince Young who would materially transform my team short term?

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 09:30 AM

I just made a nice quick flip in the auction house. Running back Najee Harris, one of the 86 rated special rookie cards, has regularly been selling for over 200,000 gold. I stumbled across one in a genuine auction, with live bidding, and oddly enough won out for only 156,000. 10 minutes later, my version was back on the auction block for 230,000, and it sold. Even after the 10% takeout, I cleared about 55,000. Nice hit.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 12:30 PM

Madden is perpetually trying to lure MUT players into their other (mostly awful) game modes. Apparently I can get another 89 Campus Heroes player by messing around a bit in something called Superstar KO. I do not want this method to work for them, but I may succumb.

JonInMiddleGA

09-04-2021, 04:17 PM

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 04:40 PM

Sounds like they do a better job than MLB:TS has done this year of extending the life of the mode.

They jumped the gun on making 98s and 99s readily available, basically killed the desire to grind for new cards. I mean, why bother if your lineup is already basically capped out?

I am, I will admit, fascinated by this whole mechanic. Creating a 12-month cycle for a football game might be more realistic than for a baseball game, but... yeah, it seems like that goal has be pretty central to the mission.

There's a (potentially worthy) tangent here, where the other related problem is that wayyyyy to many players are basically the same guy. A WR in Madden is more or less the compilation of about five relevant ratings... and right now, there are probably 15 different WRs rated roughly 86-87-88 and most of them are more or less inseparable from one another -- same speed, acceleration, change of direction, catch in traffic, and so forth. Some have one archetype and might be easier to attach a certain skill to than another, but the differences are subtle. Tyreke Hill is super fast for an 87, and that's why his card goes for 200,000+ gold, while all the rest go for 80,000 or so. And there's really no meaningful difference among most of the rest of them.

JonInMiddleGA

09-04-2021, 04:44 PM

I am, I will admit, fascinated by this whole mechanic. Creating a 12-month cycle for a football game might be more realistic than for a baseball game, but... yeah, it seems like that goal has be pretty central to the mission.

I have to think that some internal data led to that decision by Sony, cause even a lot of diehard MLB:TS players are as bewildered by it as I am. It seems to have been considered premature by the veterans in the player base, so a newbie like me certainly doesn't get it.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 04:52 PM

Okay, so the note above about getting lucky in a "true" action with live bidders was cool. But this, below, is my jam.

In the fairly complex world of the MUT auction house, there are multiple avenues for a card to be worth something. The main separator here is between the thorough and the lazy. This is a button-mashing game at its heart, so lots of people want to play Madden, want to play this Ultimate Team part of it, but do not really want to think or study. This is my arbitrage opportunity.

Case in point, right now. The Campus heroes has flooded the market with lots of 80-rated lesser versions of its 20 players. With 80-rated guys suddenly dropping in price from around 11K to 8K... what does that offer me?

Well... there's a set out there involving 80-82 rated players. There's a special set of cards called Team Builders - for each franchise, one offense and one defense, both rated 84. You got one copy when doing some early challenges, to help introduce the team chemistry concepts. But an 84 guy is pretty valuable in the game (though, as always, that value is diminishing slowly).

Anyway... there's also a set to get one of these guys of your choice. It takes three players rated 80-82, and three rated 75-79. The card you get is not restricted, you can put it right onto the auction block.

Anyway, over the last hour or so, I have unloaded my entire bankroll of around 300K in coins and most of the extra cards I had laying around not in my roster, and I have completed this set about 10 times over. Here's the math:

3x 80-rated player (Campus Heroes all) @ 8,000 = 24,000
3x 75-79 gold player @ 3,000 = 9,000
Cost to complete each set = 33,000
...and those are my ceiling prices, many are a bit cheaper)

Now, I am completing these sets deliberately... just looking around at what is available, and targeting players who are either absent from the auction house at the moment, or only available for a high price. Basically I am trying to sell the 84 guys I get from each set for about 45,000 coins. The house takes 10% of each sale, so I collect around 40,000 each.

Buy for 33,000, sell for 40,000. If they all sell, this is easy money. Most of them should, within a day or so. Do this 10x over, and I likely clear more than 70,000 in coins without mashing a single button.

So... that's where we are now, mostly invested in this as an angle, hoping these cards sell at the silly prices (silly because anyone with a little patience could just construct his own 84 Sterling Shepherd card for $33K worth of components, rather than buying him for $45K from me). By this time tomorrow I will hope to have swelled my bankroll up past 400,000 gold.

QuikSand

09-04-2021, 05:11 PM

...about 45m after finishing the process of posting up all 10 Team Builders for sale... 3x have sold, for 45,850 46,350 and 46,350. All going according to plan.

QuikSand

09-05-2021, 03:36 PM

QuikSand

09-05-2021, 04:29 PM

Oh, and 8 out of 10 of my 84-rated Team Builders from the move above sold at their aggressive prices. Two more back on the block. 377K in cash.

JonInMiddleGA

09-05-2021, 05:26 PM

Prices seem to have spiked the last couple of days, i don't understand why. Lowest cost for training right now is close to 50 gold per training point, it was approaching 40 mid-week. I made a value purchase of an 87-rated player, worth 1,500 training, and got him for just above 60,000 (and the ended up taking profits and selling him for 79K). Now I can barely find any 87-rated players at all for under 85,000. Wow.

Was there a gold sale recently by chance? That's something that always wrinkles the MLB:TS market for a while, made more impactful by them running sales at different times on different platforms

QuikSand

09-05-2021, 08:43 PM

No such thing in Madden, really. There's an entirely separate currency "Points" that are only obtainable with real money... many things in the online store are dually priced in both gold/points. But you cannot simply buy gold for money.

So... price shifts like this are usually connected to something underlying the system. The standard is that every so often they "update pack odds" so when you buy a pack of cards from the store to open, the chances of each quality/denomination improves. (e.g. a given pack, at the same price in gold, will go from having a 2.4% chance of holding an 87+ player to a 4.7% chance, and so forth) That, in essence, shifts the implied ratio of gold to "stuff" in the game, and it will have a tectonic shift something like 4-6 times during the year.

So, the big thing that happened was the release of the Campus Heroes on Friday. To me, that seems like it just flooded the market with 80s (true) and that should lessen the importance of having any of the various 80s already out there... so I'd expect all of them to come down in price. And with lots of 89s newly available and buy-able, I'd expect people's fascination with players like my 86 Nick Chubb or my 87 Myles Garrett to come down, now that there are more higher-rated guys at those positions... also seems like it would push prices down on the no-longer-premium players. Instead, it feels like a sellers' market for everything except the cheap 80-rated Campus Heroes.

I suspect there's an underlying mechanic in play, I just don't understand it.

QuikSand

09-06-2021, 03:19 PM

So, after waves one and two of "build the Team Builder for 33K, sell him for 46K" I have only two cards left on the block, everything else has sold. Nice.

I am now plunging money into what I think will be the next big thing: Team Diamonds. Last year, it was rolled out with many huzzahs, as a major set for each franchise - with one high-rated player for each NFL team obtainable through a multi-part set. Last year, the set for each NFL franchise included one each of maybe 15(?) gold cards in the 70-79 range, then a handful of lower "elite" cards from the 80-84 range... all from that team. Complete that many-part set and you are awarded, IIRC, one copy of the Team Diamonds player from that franchise - last year he was 89-rated, along with a lower-rated Power-up of the same player.

So, I'm working with the assumption that they will roll this out soon, and it will look very similar. In pursuit of other sets (like the Team Builders set noted above) I have been scouring for Gold players... one set needs 70-74 guys, i have been buying them for around 1200-1400 each. Another set needs 75-79 guys, and they have been costing roughly 2500-3000 each. Most of these guys have been tossed into sets to generate something of higher value.

The exception? Browns and Dolphins. I have just been sitting on all the CLE and MIA gold cards I can find cheaply. I reckon that I have well over 100 such cards at this point.

The thinking here is: when they unveil the Team Diamonds program, which many observers think will be this week or next, then (1) these will be widely-pursued sets, and (2) the component parts will go up in price as a result.

So, all these 1,200 gold investments into mostly useless 71-rated players on MIA and CLE... at the very worst, most of these players will rise to maybe 3000 in value? Or, based on what I saw last year, sporadically up and down, where someone well stocked like me could afford to be patient and just drop one copy of a specific player into the market knowing he might be the last piece of someone's set, and ask 10,000 for him. It can work.

Also, I may have pieces of these sets in place, and have started making spec purchases on the elite players to go with them. So, maybe I will have enough to actually complete a set quickly. Whether that's to get out there and kick butt with him, or, knowing me, to sell him off while the market is hot... either way should work for me.

So... my Browns could really use a MLB (D'Qwell Jackson? Chip Banks?) or a TE (Ozzie Newsome?) or perhaps a DT (Michael Dean Perry?)... and I'd even take a CB (Frank Minnifield was last year's guy for this program) or a FS (Thom Darden?). Lots of options. Tantalizing. I'm ready.

QuikSand

09-06-2021, 06:35 PM

Just fired up another cycle of Team Builders, I think I had enough cash to buy 6x of them and post them all up for 46K or so. I have blown through some gold scratching the itch of training for the Browns team. It's awfully expensive to do so at this point, but... well, pursuit of completeness is part of the game, and the fun, I suppose.

Anyway, I spent about 35K on an 85-rated player, flipped him for 710 training, and mused to myself that maybe i could get everything I wanted to get done settled, and still have 500 left over to put an impact skill onto one of my players. Well, a tinker here and a bump-up there, and my 700 training had dwindled to about 90, so there went that idea. I still have work to do, but hope I can wait a week or so, in hopes that the market calms down and training gets cheaper.

QuikSand

09-08-2021, 09:19 PM

TBs are selling, albeit slowly. No console time this week with busy work and fantasy football drafts. Anyway, we'll be back at it soon.

Today they released a set of 5 new "veterans" cards, nobody to help CLE I don't think.

But they also announced the next program, Ultimate Kickoffs, and:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ultimate Kickoff Hero Team Chems! Retweet for the community! <a href="https://t.co/2s3ppwigZL">pic.twitter.com/2s3ppwigZL</a></p>— MUTality (@MUTality7) <a href="https://twitter.com/MUTality7/status/1435764912681328644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Big bumps for DE Clowney and maybe the interior OL.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 06:27 AM

Ahhh one of the 88 rated veteran cards is LOLB Jamie Collins. Great but I’m deep there and really need a ROLB or MLB instead.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 11:31 AM

So, today they have released a new program, Ultimate Kickoff. Seems this is a celebration primarily of players in new places this year, through free agency or trade or whatnot.

Anyway, there's an 85 SS John Johnson, new to the Browns, that will be a nice upgrade for me at a key position. That's going to happen in short order.

For the moment, the market is flooded with these new cards (presumably there are easy challenges or new packs generating a lot of them, so the market is drowning in them). I have bought 3x John Johnson already - he's an 85 and quicksell for 710 training, and i'm buying around 30,000... a GREAT deal in contrast to the current best training prices available outside this set.

The plan will be to buy several around 30, sell as many as I can around, say, 37...and flip one or two into training.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 11:33 AM

Ok, and the bubble market on those 84-rated Team Builders seems to be popping. Guessing some content creator did a video on the same angle I was using, or something, because there are a ton of those guys around now, and they're down to 30-35K rather than 40K+. So it goes, these markets should be wide and strong enough to eventually reach a smarter equilibrium. Good profits while it lasted.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 11:36 AM

I have bought 3x John Johnson already - he's an 85 and quicksell for 710 training, and i'm buying around 30,000... a GREAT deal in contrast to the current best training prices available outside this set.

The plan will be to buy several around 30, sell as many as I can around, say, 37...and flip one or two into training.

To give you a sense of how this works, I'm using a mobile app to access the market, opening just this one guy, refreshing to see the latest offerings, and right now if anything shows up below 32,000 I have maybe 2-3 seconds to decide to buy it, it will sell that rapidly.

But these tend to ebb and flow, some people don't get it, and I have seen moments where the cheapest version is up to 36-37K... I have my two copies set to sell at 38,349 and there's a solid shot they will go.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 12:11 PM

...quick update. 4x copies bought between 30-32K, and all have sold for 37K and up. Good sniping right now, I'm multi-tasking during a COVID-related WebEx meeting, good times.

QuikSand

09-09-2021, 01:12 PM

..so the going price for my 85 John Johnson is now around 40K, I sold a bit too low when I felt I go ta good deal at 47,999 and 43,349. I now have 4x in hand and back on the market, trying to get 42K, after buying in the 32-35 range where they still occasionally pop up.

What's almost certainly driving this is a set... likely this 85 card has a little appeal to a guy like me, but is more important as a needed component to get some big important card, an 89- or 90-rated star atop this new release. And people, in pursuit of completing that set, are just clicking the space for it on their consoles, seeing the prices, and buying the cheapest one they see. They are too slow to get the just-dropped 33,000 version, so their cheapest is 39,650 and they buy it.

The poachers and snipers know what they're doing, are looking for cheap buys only to re-list them at a price that will at some point become the cheapest, and cash in quickly. I am not deep enough in gold to make a killing this way, but I tie up 33K for an hour in search of getting back 42K-10%=37.8K... yeah, I'll do that.

Any my backstop is I'm just getting copies of a card I already want, and at a buy price where it's a good deal just to flip him for training, which I do need. So, even if I can't sell a couple of these at 40K+ I still am all right.

QuikSand

09-10-2021, 03:20 PM

So, two roster updates of note:

I mentioned before I did my grind-through of challenges to earn a capstone 89-rated card from the recent "Campus Heroes" set... and after pondering a few days, I opted against the only CLE fit LOLB Carl Banks, and instead took runaround QB Vince Young. Probably not forever, but he will be our guy for a while, he's fleet footed and that is super useful.

Today, I got enough stars in the newer Ultimate Kickoff challenges to earn a new card, rated 75 or better... by dumb luck I got an 88-rated guy, DT Tomlinson. Bingo. Sold him for over 100,000 coins, and that's fuel for training or buying better fit guys (I need a DT, but am feeling the pull to get closer to my theme).

Still doing a lot of market moves... these 85 UK cards are great, pace not as fast as before, but I'm still occasionally buying at <34 and selling at >40, that adds up over time, and I have the cash to have 10 of them in play at once.

QuikSand

09-11-2021, 06:53 AM

Overnight, everything sold and I’m up to a new high of 660K coins. If there’s a weekend price drop, I’ll be as ready as possible.

Limited edition 91 Nick Chubb is out, but is selling for around 500K.

QuikSand

09-11-2021, 09:13 AM

I have cash to spend. Todays new legends cards are not of interest.

Plans/goals for the CLE theme team:

-RB Chubb’s new top card is hella expensive but for training I could bump my Power Up card to maybe 89… for this team that’s not stupid

-RT Conklin also has a good card (88) and I could go get that, or again Power Up to close to that level

Really not a lot more on the short term “to do” list… better FB Janovich card is out there, power up LB Banks more, and that’s about it directly.

I haven’t been willing to spend 500 training (over 25,000 gold) on adding special abilities to key cards, but that’s also looming as a next step investment as well, especially for cards I intend to use all year.

QuikSand

09-11-2021, 01:41 PM

QuikSand

09-11-2021, 01:47 PM

…after typing that out, I went and checked. Bought 3x 88 guys at great prices, about 295K for the three. And I’m broke now.

QuikSand

09-12-2021, 06:11 AM

Sold 2 of 3 of the 88 guys (cold feet) but staying open to this play

QuikSand

09-12-2021, 08:25 AM

So, I’m not even sure what is worth offering an update here on. The weekend is typically noted for relatively low prices, making it a good time to buy, and a poor time to sell. The problem with that is that I’m doing this for fun, and it’s more fun to do something, then to sit around and twiddle thumbs. Anyhow, I am stuck in the middle a little bit… My gold was up over 600,000 a while ago, now I’m down below 300,000. I have several cards up for sale for a number of hours, with hopes that they will sell out, and restore my cash to 500,000 or so.

One small roster note… I completed a small challenge in game, and my reward was to choose among several power ups, among them was cornerback Joe Haden, who previously played for the Browns. I was not even aware that he had a power up card, but that card along with a bit of training, has now become CB3 in my roster, rated 82 I think right now.

brett32z

09-12-2021, 03:39 PM

This thread has me perilously close to buying Madden for the first time in 15 years or so. How much time would I need to devote to this to make it worthwhile? Would an hour or so 2-3 nights a week be enough to have fun? I have more ability throughout the day to check in on the app for a few minutes at a time but limited "blocks" of time to devote.

QuikSand

09-12-2021, 09:10 PM

LOL at "perilously close"

I'm not sure what to say... I think overall, if you could commit that kind of time (1 hour a few times a week) that would keep you lively in the challenges, that are part of grinding out free stuff for your team. You cannot be cutting edge with that amount of time (and I cannot be with the time I have spent, either) but it's enough to feel like you're "in it" I think.

And in the end, to be fully honest... what I'm doing is more or less just rosterbation. The big sharps are playing in the online leagues against one another, Elo-adjusted or otherwise, and that's fine... my team-building skills far outstrip my button-mashing skills, which are adequate at best. (I still really have real trouble making fast decisions playing defense, and am still not that good at calling audibles or formation adjustments, which all the sharps do)

So, your call.

And, if you're in the fence...they appear to have put some real time into the "Franchise" segment of the game (multi-year career style sim)...and if that moves from being nearly useless to somewhat entertaining, that would help merit the investment of either money or time, whichever you value more.

QuikSand

09-12-2021, 09:37 PM

So, Sunday evening is the end of the week, here's the status of the Browns theme team:

(For reference, here's the maxed-out theme team (https://www.mut.gg/theme-teams/6/cleveland-browns/), with every card available if you had unlimited time/coins/cash

-Chemistry: my lineup right now has 52 units of Browns chemistry, 2 more than absolutely needed for the maximum benefit to Browns players... meaning if I wanted to draw the line at "must have 50 Browns" I still have 2x slots to fiddle around with (LT and DT might be my top candidates, if so)

QB: Young is very good but I haven't spent the $ to add scrambling boosters... backup who cares but Baker is just awaiting an improved card to become relevant

RB: I paid to PowerUp Chubb to 89, I can pay to bump him up another click, and after that I'd need the super-expensive Limited Edition card... if I remain frustrated with my inability to re-sell some of these 85s, I may flip three for enough training to max out Chubb (for my purposes)... Hunt is elusive but not a difference maker...no other attractive options out there except Mostert (fast but very expensive)

FB: have Janovich maxed out, he's solid, no improvement possible within CLE chemistry

TE: Njoku is the classic fading card... my first 84, felt like a cheat code against rosters with mostly guys in the mid-70s... now he's still solid but would make a really nice TE2 behind something better... TE2 Hooper is a 79 and likely to get a bump someday... Ozzie perhaps one day

WR: For my team, I'm still relying a lot on my gift players - Captain 89 Alworth and Season Champion 85 Devin Hester as my WR1 and heavily-used slot guys. OBJ is a contested catch guy downfield better than his overall rating (83?) suggests. Landry at 81 is fine depth.

OL: LT 76 Wills is the weak link now, everyone else is into the 80s, and I could plow more training into maxim them out further - C Mack has an 88 card from this latest set, so does RG Kevin Zeitler but that would mean getting his Power Up card, adding the training, and THEN adding the 88 card to max him out...just sitting on Teller and awaiting a new card seems fine. OL is a relative strength here.

P/K: fine but nothing special at all

DL: I watched live as Garrett and Clowney pincered Mahomes today (in the "before times") and that's what we're trying to get from our guys here... 87 and 88, respectively. DE Ogbah is playing inside at DT a lot, for lack of legit options. If I were to make this silly play to build then sell the 91 Megatron card, I'd surely go grab Dalvin Tomlinson, an 88 DT card from that set, to be a major talent boost for us for a while. Still mulling it over.

OLB: Three talented guys for CLE all naturally play LOLB... not ideal. I have 84 JOK as my starter cause he's crazy fast, and 83 Carl Banks behind him. I don't even have Jamie Collins, who maxes out at 89... in theory I could use him, but right now I'm pretty content with JOK who flies around subbed-in as a MLB in my nickel package, which I play 75% of the time... for lack of a natural ROLB I have been playing rookie 86 card Jaelen Phillips who has been fine but not great

MLB: weak spot... I have finally maxed-out 85 Demario Davis, that took time and patience, but behind him there's virtually nothing from CLE... so my next plug-in guy, 86 Micah Parsons from the Rookie Premiere is very solid and fast... SS Kam Chancellor at 83 and ever-increasing as I continue to stumble across performance markers drops into play some MLB as well (in nickel)

CB: With recent addition 83 Joe Haden, I have two CLE guys good enough to not worry about, and RP 86 Jaycee Horn is CB1 for now. It's fine... Denzel Ward should get a boost at some point, and after that we'd be hoping for some of the founders of the Dawg Pound to help out (Frank Minnifield please)

S: Browns are deep with pretty good guys available here, and Kam makes it even more so... the 85 card for John Johnson made his fully Powered-up 86 version my SS1... I haven't even bothered yet with Jordan Poyer or Jabril Peppers but a new card for either could remedy that at some point... Kam and Peppers both can play FS as well, and that might help at some point since right now 86 Trevon Moehrig is my starter, over mere 72 Grant Delpit

Priorities short term:

Not a lot, to be totally honest... 500 training (~20,000 gold) to add a scrambling boost to Vince is in play... could pay to bump up Chubb... and nickel-and-dime stuff here and there... mostly waiting for new players to pursue

QuikSand

09-13-2021, 03:37 PM

Well, it seems like the dip in prices over the weekend was not a function of the weekend, but probably a gradual reset. Things are just about where they have been… My 85 rated players from the ultimate kick off program are still going in the low to mid 30s. That is, more or less, the best available price to buy training. I have managed to offload all but two of the ones I bought in the low 30s, at a price of 39-40, and feel lucky to have done so.

I am back to around 500,000 gold, so basically fairly cash rich, which puts me in a position to welcome an overall softening of prices.

QuikSand

09-13-2021, 03:48 PM

Tomorrow, we should see our first installment of "Team of the Week" in MUT 22. Basically, this is a weekly slate of new cards, mostly based on players who were exceptional in their real life NFL games this week.

So, players like Jalen Hurts or Jameis Winston who don't have a meaningful card in the MUT 22 game yet are prime candidates to be in this week's batch - whose ratings will range from "decent" 79-82 up to "elite" high 80s, most likely.

It's usually done with some eye toward the longer season... so while Tyreek Hill might have had the best fantasy stat line in the league this week, he might not get the top card, on account of him already being a top-tier card as it stands. (There is a quiet thing they can do in such cases... release a lower-level card for him like a seemingly useless 82, but then accompany that with an extra +1 step for his Power Up card to develop, raising his ceiling... that happened last year a couple of times with Devante Adams, as you might imagine)

If they follow last year's pattern, then on top of the players from this week, they will also include a couple of "Player of the Week Heroes," guys who are no longer active but who put up big numbers in a Week 1 of a year gone by, one offense and one defense. These would be highly rated cards... at this point in the game, I'd expect them to be maybe a 90. And then, on top of that, for a couple days a "limited edition" card available only by opening packs from the Madden store, who would be a click or two higher than even these guys... so maybe a 91, more or less matching the top-rated players in the entire game.

With each week will presumably come new sets -- ways to "build" the top cards from the week, by collecting lesser cards. So, even if the 79-rated guy doesn't help your team, that card might still have value as a component toward a set that you, or someone, needs to get the big time guys atop the weekly list. (Over time, these sets can become really handy, I managed to go back to weeks-old sets of TOTW guys last year and found them mightily profitable given certain situations)

Anyway... unlikely any Browns will make the list given their loss (and Chubb's already having gotten a Ltd card last week)... but who knows what veterans might pop up here?

QuikSand

09-13-2021, 07:06 PM

Well well, the Limited Edition player this week is… 92 Myles Garrett. Whoa.

brett32z

09-13-2021, 08:03 PM

QuikSand

09-14-2021, 07:41 AM

But here's the deal. Playing "No Money Spent" is very much like being in the all-natural section of a Mr. Universe contest. Sure, it is its own competition, but you are simply not magazine cover stuff, right?

It's tricky because most of the MUT content creators worth anything are talking about building god-squad teams with the best players available, period. My favorite such guy literally just made a specific comment about my 89 Vince Young card (who has completely transformed my offense with his rushing ability) and just casually dropped (paraphrasing in quotes here) "well, I mean the powered-up 90 card... the 89 is just trash, but the 90 is my #2 overall QB in the game right now."

For me, buying his Power Up card for around 10K and then using perhaps 200K in training to get him from 89 to 90 (mainly so I can then spend another 60K on training to add one more scrambling-related ability to him)... it's just beyond my NMS budget. (I think it is, at least)

Alas. Set the rules, play within them, do your best.

QuikSand

09-14-2021, 09:12 AM

So, weird dilemma for me right now.

I can buy the 88-rated players in the Ultimate Kickoff set today for around 105K each, 420K for 4x of them. That's enough for a set to get the 91-rated Megatron WR or Sean Taylor. Those are God Squad cards right now that everyone wants so they are selling for... close to 400K.

So maybe I spend 420K and get back 360K by selling the 91 card. But in the set you apparently also get back 4x of your choice of the 88-rated cards, in a restricted version (can't auction, trade, or use in sets). Four 88-rated players would be meaningful to my team right now, if I am willing to depart that much from my theme team. Have to stew on it a bit but I think this is too good to pass up.

Still ruminating on this. Very hard to conclude anything other than this is a major improvement to my team for rather small gold investment. For me, it's more about how far am I willing to drift away form a legit "theme team" here.

I have 2x of these 88-rated guys in hand from playing challenges. I have LE Clowney already, and have yet to decide what to do with the other "fantasy pack" unopened. But that could be C Alex Mack, for example, if I wanted to stick with the Browns. Or, it could be Will Fuller if I wanted to develop my 1B project, a Dolphins theme team.

Anyway... if I went ahead and did this set, I'd end up with a 91-rated guy to sell, and then 4x non-tradeable non-auctionable 88-rated cards that are basically only usable as players, and nothing else. So, I'd likely end up with a total of 6:

DE Clowney
C Mack
RG Zeitler?
WR Fuller
...and then since I'm out of theme fits, maybe
DT Tomlinson (major need right now)
TE Everett (same)
or
LT Fisher (76 to 88 is a huge move, even if OL are unexciting)

So - that would be a pretty meaningful moved-the-needle play for the short term on my theme team. And what would it cost?

Right now:

-the 88-player market has settled (largely because of everyone wanting to do this set) around 100K for each card... maybe with discipline I could spend 380K to get 4x of them for the set

-the 91-rated guy I'd get back, right now, looks to sell for about 330K, so the wise assumption is that I'd be able to get back 300K "after taxes"

-the set would only cost me about 80-90K, I suspect, assuming everything goes according to plan (there's some risk that I mis-time the market somehow and have to settle for a lower 91 sell price, or something like that)

Seriously, for 80K, right now, I can just barely upgrade my Jack Conklin RT card from 83 to 87. That's for context. This is a HUGE upgrade in talent, for right now, for an awfully small investment. It's hard to justify not doing it unless you're a very committed theme teamer.

The devil's advocate argument is that in a little time, these 88 guys will no longer feel special, and since I can't auction/sell/quicksell them for anything, it's just a lost investment. They give me a 90+ rated Joe Thomas at some point (pretty likely), and I suddenly have zero need or desire for my non-Browns 88 LT, it's garbage to me. That's where all of this will surely be in, say, 6-8 weeks time.

QuikSand

09-15-2021, 06:23 AM

Either I had the math wrong, or they changed this set. Regardless of which, I still concluded it was worth it to buy five pieces to make the set, and get five pieces back. So now I have 7x of the 88 players, everyone mentioned, and still over 400K in gold.

Played a couple challenge games, it’s a noticeable difference on the DL and at TE2.

QuikSand

09-15-2021, 10:40 AM

So... as I have muttered here from time to time, I have been amassing the pieces of a legit Dolphins theme team, as well. Not sense yet of what this will constitute -- will I settle for a "as many MIA players as possible, then fill in with others" approach? Or will this be ALLPHINS like I built in Madden 20, without the use of any non-MIA players, and without the use of any of the "helper" cards (like my 89 Alworth, 85 Hester, and 84 Chancellor) that can be used for any team chemistry?

Regardless... grabbing the 88 Will Fuller card was a nice plus, and then they dropped this last night in advance of today's 5-card "Rising Stars" release:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jaylen Waddle <a href="https://t.co/IfXe7X0tR7">pic.twitter.com/IfXe7X0tR7</a></p>— MUTality (@MUTality7) <a href="https://twitter.com/MUTality7/status/1437914154598289412?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So... a pure MIA theme team could be just fine without Alworth/Hester, I reckon, at least for a while. Will have shortcomings elsewhere, but it is sorta fun in a "house rules" sort of way.

JonInMiddleGA

09-15-2021, 06:59 PM

The multiple theme-teams deal was one of the things I enjoyed about MLB:TS grinding.

In the first few months of the season (and since I started late I had a lot of options to grind for) there were various challenges involving each of the six divisions. Basically that meant you had reason to build up six "theme teams".

And now that they haven't refreshed though in a couple months and I've finished all of the ones for each of the divisions, I suspect that's one reason I'm playing less. There's simply not as much to do, less opportunity for sense of progress / accomplishment.

QuikSand

09-16-2021, 07:53 PM

As a reward for playing through four weeks of minor "Wildcard Wednesday" challenges, I got a free card from any of those sets... so welcome aboard, 89 Jaylen Waddle.

QuikSand

09-17-2021, 01:34 PM

In between meetings today, have been fiddling around in the market via the app.

87 rated players are worth 1,500 training points - enough for me to do a lot of things I want/need to do short term. If I can land one of those cards for 50,000 gold, that's a pretty reasonable ratio of 33 gold/training. (It's absurd that this ration will approach 1:1 toward the end of the yearly cycle, but it is what it is)

Anyway, in pursuit of that I have bought a few guys at 47K, 51K, and 52K and then put them up for resale, as they can then show up as the cheapest version of that exact card at a profitable price, like 62K. So, I may just try to "churn" a little bit here... hard to tell when prices might come down again, usually Saturday morning is active and a good buying opportunity, but... hey, I've got 6 minutes until my next WebEx, maybe I can go buy one more guy...

QuikSand

09-17-2021, 01:38 PM

I am now plunging money into what I think will be the next big thing: Team Diamonds. Last year, it was rolled out with many huzzahs, as a major set for each franchise - with one high-rated player for each NFL team obtainable through a multi-part set. Last year, the set for each NFL franchise included one each of maybe 15(?) gold cards in the 70-79 range, then a handful of lower "elite" cards from the 80-84 range... all from that team. Complete that many-part set and you are awarded, IIRC, one copy of the Team Diamonds player from that franchise - last year he was 89-rated, along with a lower-rated Power-up of the same player.

So, I'm working with the assumption that they will roll this out soon, and it will look very similar. In pursuit of other sets (like the Team Builders set noted above) I have been scouring for Gold players... one set needs 70-74 guys, i have been buying them for around 1200-1400 each. Another set needs 75-79 guys, and they have been costing roughly 2500-3000 each. Most of these guys have been tossed into sets to generate something of higher value.

The exception? Browns and Dolphins. I have just been sitting on all the CLE and MIA gold cards I can find cheaply. I reckon that I have well over 100 such cards at this point.

The thinking here is: when they unveil the Team Diamonds program, which many observers think will be this week or next, then (1) these will be widely-pursued sets, and (2) the component parts will go up in price as a result.

So, all these 1,200 gold investments into mostly useless 71-rated players on MIA and CLE... at the very worst, most of these players will rise to maybe 3000 in value? Or, based on what I saw last year, sporadically up and down, where someone well stocked like me could afford to be patient and just drop one copy of a specific player into the market knowing he might be the last piece of someone's set, and ask 10,000 for him. It can work.

Also, I may have pieces of these sets in place, and have started making spec purchases on the elite players to go with them. So, maybe I will have enough to actually complete a set quickly. Whether that's to get out there and kick butt with him, or, knowing me, to sell him off while the market is hot... either way should work for me.

So... my Browns could really use a MLB (D'Qwell Jackson? Chip Banks?) or a TE (Ozzie Newsome?) or perhaps a DT (Michael Dean Perry?)... and I'd even take a CB (Frank Minnifield was last year's guy for this program) or a FS (Thom Darden?). Lots of options. Tantalizing. I'm ready.

BTW, EA has confirmed that they will roll out the Team Diamonds program next week, I suspect most likely Monday or Friday. I have not been watching the market for golds, but I might fiddle around and buy up still more of these guys on spec. It could be a great wave of money-making opportunities.

Last year they had a global set-building thing... if you completed the Team Diamond for every single franchise (32) then you got tokens to use to get a special 93 Barry Sanders card which was absolutely dominant, and who could gain chemistry for any franchise. HUGE card at the time. I was not sufficiently wizened to the ways of the market to really grok it then, but if they do something similar (PLEASE not a running back, make it Mean Joe Greene or something) then that could make this promotion absolute FIRE.

Izulde

09-18-2021, 07:36 AM

Just dropping in to say I'm following along and really enjoying this.

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 08:26 AM

glad to hear...

Coming Attractions:
-maybe this morning we officially launch the boy's team
-I open up and start actually building up my own MIA theme team

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 09:19 AM

Okay, it's 10:15 ET... in 15m they will release the two new Legends players for today. Nobody fits for my theme team(s) so this is just a money-making opportunity for me... the market can plunge here because lots of people rush out to get the new players.

Anyway, I am going to be watching the markets. In specific, when someone wins/opens an 89-rated Curtis Martin card, he may try to sell it, but without any/many copies in the auction house, it's not clear what the right price is... so this is a good shot at a stupid market. That's what I want.

Target buy prices right now:

90 for 190K
89 for 130K
88 for 80K
87 for 55K
86 for 40K
85 for 25K

...hoping to see some weirdness ahead, and some chances for card-buying arbitrage.

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 09:54 AM

Well, I might be left holding the bag a bit here... bought 3x 84 FS Roy Williams cards as they were just coming out, at prices around 30K, seeking to flip them quickly for 36-39K... and the market seems to be settling into the high 20s instead of the high 30s.

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 10:10 AM

yup, i messed up here, badly... the 84s are now going for around 24K. ugh.

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 09:38 PM

Spent down most of my cash into various money maker plots (hopefully)… back to 110k as I write, hoping by Monday I will be back to over 300k.

QuikSand

09-18-2021, 09:38 PM

Spent down most of my cash into various money maker plots (hopefully)… back to 110k as I write, hoping by Monday I will be back to over 300k.

QuikSand

09-19-2021, 06:47 AM

So, I perused the side project Dolphins theme team, and it’s not in bad shape. I have enough guys on hand to get to the 50 for maximum team chemistry, and am amidst the process of getting the stadium and uniforms (those are “cards” too, available through sets or in the auction house… and those sets are indeed printing as usual).

If I were to keep this as a pristine Dolphins team, it will be awful, but maybe fun in a “house rules” kind of way. Really weak at TE, DT, LB, right side of OL. Lots of places with very low depth.

Then I could sprinkle in the “gift” players, like a captain (maybe DE Youngblood on this team?), and the other guys (might choose LB Seau, and SS Chancellor)… they all get whatever team chem you want.

And then there’s the path of saying 50 Phins is enough, and you just need that… and fill in elsewhere with BPAs. Improves the team a good deal, but at the cost of its identity to a degree. I really prefer both the challenge and the “vibe” of having Tua throw to Waddle, rather than… well, Vince Young throw to Gerald Everett. I want to be elated when they drop RG Larry Little as the Miami Team Diamond, rather than just play Wyatt Teller there.

So, I think for now I’ll split the baby a bit… when I play the Dolphins, I will switch over the gift players to help out, but I’m going pure Dolphins chemistry. Main limitation there fir now is at QB… 83 Tannehill or 79 Tua with some add-on skills and the scrambling archetype. I have a good deal of training needs for my various power up cards, probably will need 150-200k to bring up guys like G Incognito, C Pouncey, S Fitzpatrick, LB Quinn, and most importantly RB Bush. (Not a single current Phin among them, notably)

QuikSand

09-21-2021, 05:56 AM

Hoping in the Team of the Week they squeeze in a useful card for Browns FS Grant Delpit. He wasn’t Roquan Smith but he had a very nice week in the CLE win, and is stuck with a lousy 72 card.

QuikSand

09-21-2021, 05:59 AM

In the meantime, I have been turning coins mostly by just being smart and reviewing very select parts of the market that are easy to follow. The best ratio of gold for training is always important to keep in mind for this kind of activity… Buying somewhere right around that floor is almost always short term profitable. Mainly, I have been scouring the 87 rated players, position by position. For most positions, I buy if the player is under about 55k and seek to sell around 67k. At FS, for some reason, Minkah’s 87 card reliably sells for 75k so I’ll buy as high as 60 and still flip for profit.

QuikSand

09-21-2021, 06:10 AM

Oooooh both of my theme teams luck out as the veteran choices for the TOTW are TE Ozzie Newsome and LB Joey Porter, both 91 with lower power up cards as a stepping stone for me to build them up. Huge!

QuikSand

09-21-2021, 09:18 AM

So, here's a tweet showing the basics of the Ozzie card:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ozzie Newsome <a href="https://t.co/lUpCLfGzyp">pic.twitter.com/lUpCLfGzyp</a></p>— MUTality (@MUTality7) <a href="https://twitter.com/MUTality7/status/1440092271567937538?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For me as a poor NMS guy, the plan will definitely be to get his Power Up card (likely a high-70s) fairly affordably if I can (like uner 20K gold?) and then do what I can afford to improve it incrementally, using the training currency gained by selling other cards, to get him at least into the high 80s. This card looks VERY good at this point in the game - Newsome wasn't really known for great speed, but I'll take the ratings I see here as the end goal. I likely can't afford to power him up all the way to 92 (including buying/building the 91 card above) but if I can get him to 88/89 that will make him a mighty weapon for my team, and give me 3-deep with quality at the position, assuming I keep using my 88 Gerald Everett.

For gameplay, this is big. One of my go-to plays that I can execute well and can read defenses pretty well with involves TE1 running a go route off the right edge, and TE2 running a fairly quick left-side corner route about 9 yards deep.

These are very exciting moments for the committed theme teamer!

QuikSand

09-21-2021, 08:10 PM

Painted myself into a bit of a corner today... we'll see how this plays out. I've been watching those 87s for a while now, looking for guys who occasionally pop up at 54, 52, maybe even 50K. Insta-buy, then try to sell them at 66 or more, for a quick flip.

Today, in the TOTW release, there was an 87 Lamar Jackson, and the market flooded with them. I took my whole cash and sunk it into copies of the 87 Lamar, around 51K each on average. For a while they were even popping up and selling under 50K.

My short term hope is that this was a blip, and these cards will all sell for 66, and I will make money from this.

But right at the moment, I have only 20K in cash and can't do much of anything.

By the way... even the Power Up card for TE Ozzie Newsome is going for a lot (40K when it first got released). Not sure when I will get a quality Ozzie onto my roster, even before this foible with the 87s.

QuikSand

09-22-2021, 08:40 AM

Not encouraging

Lamar 87 still selling around 50

QuikSand

09-22-2021, 06:21 PM

Okay, sold 2x Lamar 87s at 60k, I’m back to 170k in cash to do stuff.

Ozzie power up calming down to around 20k. Still too poor to max it out.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 11:39 AM

Up to 300K coins now, after selling off 2x more Lamars and one other 87 card.

Details on the Team Diamonds coming out - they are 90 cards with power-ups to potentially go to 91. Dolphins get Ricky Williams, so a power RB to complement receiving back Reggie Bush. Fine, but other positions felt like a much greater need.

Browns...looks like we have to wait until a full reveal tonight. Hoping for DT Michael Dean Perry that would really complement our current strengths, but I'd be happy with CB, FS, or MLB.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 11:43 AM

...it appears that the set for each team's 90-rated Team Diamond will include BOTH of the 84-rated Team Builders for that franchise. That should rive up the price for those cards - I see today they are back into the 40s, after being down even as low as 25K yesterday. So... profit to be made, probably, building those sets with elite/gold cards as I outlines earlier as a solid strategy. I am going to start buying up 75-79 gold cards for under 3K in advance of this becoming a money making angle.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 01:53 PM

So, just to be clear, I do not have the bank roll sufficient to just use various cards I already own, and others that I can buy or assemble through sets, to get myself one of these 90 rated players, just to make my team better right now. That is not the plan. The plan, instead, is to take advantage of the overzealous people who are doing that… And for those who are impatient, or not well informed about the cheap way to do the various things they need to do, I want to sell them the components they need at high prices.

On a certain level, yes, I am interested in the new players that fit my theme teams being ones who will be useful and helpful. I would love a defensive tackle for the Browns, I have made that clear, and that is true. But, more immediately, the point is that I have been accumulating lots of 70 rated cards, buying them cheaply in anticipation of them becoming in higher demand as components for these much sought after sets. Right now, I am hoping to make money by leveraging the team builders cards… The market has already anticipated these becoming in demand, they are now selling in the 40s, but I’m still occasionally buying them at 35 or 38. I am also buying components to assemble them, when I can muster the energy to get down to my console. (I’ve been ill)

So, the real goal is that over the next couple of weeks, I can turn my 300 K bank roll into 500 or 600 K… Mostly by using the various components of this new game changing set of cards, and the sets to create them.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 02:54 PM

Right now, the gold players rated 75 through 79 are still going for about the same prices that I am used to… Reliably available for 2500 gold or less. This is a mistake, I think. Many of these cards will be part of the set for their franchises team diamond card dropping tomorrow, and the demand for them will immediately go up. In addition, any of them may be used as a component in completing the set for a team builders card, And since the team builders are themselves a component in the team diamond set, that means they will appreciate in value… That is already happening.

So, right now, independent of whether the car is any good as a player on the field, a gold player rated 75 to 79 should probably be selling for 3500 to 4500 gold. Anything I can find for 2500 or less, is an instant buy for me… And they likely quick turnaround for profit.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 05:39 PM

My plan for the weeks ahead, is basically to hoard copies of the various gold players, rated between 70 and 79, for the two franchises that I have targeted, browns and dolphins. I’m just going to sit on three or four or five copies of each of these guys, and routinely post them for sale at a ridiculous, but not eye-popping price. For a 70 or 72 rated player, a fair price is probably 2000 coins… My plan will be to post my guys at 4000 or 6000 or 8000. The person I want to take advantage of is the guy who is just about done with his set, he has all the hard to find pieces, he has done all the work to get his 87th and 84s and 82s and all the hard stuff, and is really excited to get his good 90 rated star player… And all that’s left is this piece or that piece. I want to be the guy to sell him this or that piece, and to do so at a premium. This is a circumstance where I have the luxury of patients, because I don’t have a bunch of cash.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 05:40 PM

(Please forgive audio typos)

By the way, I have resorted to reciting these messages by phone, and if there are audio typos along the way, please forgive me… It makes this a lot easier. The message above is from my phone as an auto correct for the letters PFAT

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 06:18 PM

So, I just saw that the Atlanta Falcons team diamond player this year is Andre Rison. Bing Bing, another Cleveland Brown on the way. If I remain really thin at middle linebacker, the play for me may be to switch Devin Hester out for Junior Seau, and use sale as a Cleveland Brown centerpiece player. Our depth at wide receiver may improve soon, if I can get a Rison power up to the mod/high 80s.

QuikSand

09-23-2021, 06:57 PM

Browns Team Diamond is 90 rated WR/KR Josh Cribbs. So, switching from Hester to MLB Seau seems like a no brainer now, once we have one or both of these guys up to snuff and playing. Nice boost to our LB group, at least.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 09:26 AM

Based on the freeze pane from a YouTube video I have not yet watched, it looks like the capstone player from the Team Diamonds program (if it's like last year, he will get chemistry with any franchise) is... a 95-rated Dan Marino.

Holy shit. The very best players in the game right now are 91-92... a 95 who likely has a strong arm and fast release will be titanic. This ought to be nutso.

It will take forever for me to work my way up to that card, but the many who will be motivated to get him will make lots of coin-making opportunities pop up for us who shoot the angles along the way.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 11:11 AM

Okay, so the Team Diamonds program is live in-game right now.

I have tried not to inundate you with details here, but here's what it takes to complete the set to receive your 90-rated Browns Team Diamond WR Josh Cribbs (https://www.mut.gg/players/27085-josh-cribbs/22-11227085/), who is selling in the auction house for around 200,000 gold:

86 RB Nick Chubb
84 LOLB JOK
84 TE David Njoku
84 Wyatt Teller
83 RT Joel Bitonio
83 CB Denzel Ward
81 SS John Johnson
80 WR Odell Beckham Jr
80 LE Jadaveon Clowney
80 WR Jarvis Landry
80 RT Jack Conklin
80 RB Kareem Hunt
80 QB Baker Mayfield
79 C JC Tretter
79 TE Austin Hooper
79 ROLB Malcolm Smith
77 SS Ronnie Harrison Jr
77 TE David Njoku
76 LT Jedrick Wills
75 MLB Anthony Walker
74 DT Malik Jackson
74 WR Rashad Higgins
74 CB Greg Newsome
73 DT Andrew Billings
73 CB Troy Hill

...that's a boatload of cards, and a lot of work. I have not yet done the math, but short term I don't think this set is actually profitable... the Chubb card is going for 60K, the two 84s are around 40, that's 140K right there, and all the 80+ guys are above 10K each.

So... I am likely to build one myself, with parts I have lying around, but I reckon my main play will be to put parts up for sale in hopes that the market remains thin. I have multiple copies of lots of these 70-something guys, and if I have the only one available, that's where I move in and ask 6999 for a guy who's really only worth 1500.

Big change in the game.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 11:45 AM

Built my first Josh Cribbs set.. the 90 card already sold for 200K (I guess I aimed too low) and the Power Up that came with it is up at a 60k price. Market kinda flooded with stuff from people like he who were prepared but over time there will be shortages in various low level cards.

I’m not too far from completing a Miami Ricky Williams set also.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 11:56 AM

Ricky in higher demand, his cards now up for sale for 299K and 95K. Hoping for a sale.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 05:28 PM

So, a lot of transactions today… I have sold off a lot of things, capitalizing on investments made over the last few weeks leading up to the release of this program. I’m close to 600 K in coins, so that’s pretty good.

QuikSand

09-24-2021, 05:31 PM

The Dan Marino cards you get for completing all 32 franchises’ team diamond sets are selling for huge money right now… 2M for the 95 card and over 600K for the 83 rated power up. Some people who really had their ducks in a row, and put some muscle into this, are profiting mightily from this. The Marino cards will remain hot properties for a while (that 95 will be by far the best QB in the game I’d assume) but being really early is rewarded by the lazy/wealthy.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 03:54 AM

…up to 850K now as another wave of “aggressively priced” items have sold. This is taking a profitable turn, as lots of people are presumably going for Marino, and trying to do all 32 Team Diamond sets to get him.

I now have several components of the Browns TD set available at silly prices… traps set FOF the guy thinking about $2 million… hoping he’ll just pay my 8999 rather than wait it out for some 74 card worth 2000.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 10:59 AM

I am now the victim of the same kind of profiteering that I’m trying to engage in myself. I am assembling the cards to complete the set for Falcons team Diamond Andre Rison, and there is a 76 rated card for Kyle Pitts necessary to complete the set… Instead of going for a fair market price of around 3000 gold, the cheapest you can find it is about 40,000 right now. So, I will wait, I’m not paying the extreme price… I’m mostly looking for places to set the extreme price.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 11:03 AM

In more relevant news for my Browns team team, the power up card for a wide receiver Josh Cribbs is apparently not in very high demand. The power up card is the principal way to extend a player to have team chemistry for all the various franchises for which he played over his career. For a guy like Andre Rison, who is a highly sought after card because of his particular skills, the power of card is essential because that’s the way to give him chemistry for five or six different teams. Cribs only played for one team, the Browns, and therefore his power up card is not all that big of a deal, unless you’re in my situation.

So, while the two cards look basically the same right now… High 70 rating power up toward a 90 rated MasterCard… The Andre Rison is selling for 90,000 coins, and the Josh Cribbs is selling for about 15,000 coins.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 11:08 AM

So, an interesting note on the marketplace for these cards… The only way to get the power up card for a player like Andre Rison is by completing the team diamond set, which gives you the full 90 rated card, plus the 77 rated power up card. Because people are profiteering on the component pieces for the Andre Rison sad, however, that means it’s really hard to finish that side right now. Meaning, scarcity for those pieces.

Somebody, not me, just put two into together there… And decided to buy the three available copies of the Andre Rison power up card at 90 or 100,000 coins each, and post two of them for sale for 150,000 each. Because the set is so difficult to complete right now, it’s possible he will get that high price by people who are impatient, or not knowledgeable, and basically get his own copy more or less for free.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 11:20 AM

…Well, that did not work for him. The market quickly supplied three or four more copies well under his 150 thousand price, I even bought the cheapest among them for 78,000, and I have relisted it for 100 K.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 11:42 AM

While all the stuff that’s going on here represent coin making opportunities, and I have spent almost all my time writing in this thread about the same… There is, still, the team itself. So, I think the opportunity that presents itself right now, is for me to buy a reasonably priced copy of the Josh Cribbs power up card, spend what it takes to get it powered up to become useful for me, and start using him as my slot receiver and kick and punt returner. I can then probably switch my 85 rated Devin Hester card over to become middle linebacker Junior Seau, give him browns chemistry, and make a substantial improvement to that particular roster slot.

I think I can invest 60 or 80,000 coins to do all this, and it should be fine. It is always a little bit challenging to have limited means, as a no money spent player, and decide what to do in this market place where every asset is basically a declining asset. The problem is, that always points in the direction of waiting and waiting and waiting… And then you end up at the end of the year and you never got the car that would have been enjoyable to actually play games with. I was probably a little too cautious over the course of the full year of playing Madden 21, really my only full year Of playing this game… So I want to strike a pose smarter balance this season, and spend a little money to have things stay interesting in game.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 11:57 AM

Yes, there is obvious massive profiteering happening among the components for the Andre Rison set. Much more so than for the Cleveland set for Josh Cribbs.

There is a 77 rated tackle for Atlanta, an hour ago there were multiple copies on the market selling for three or 4000 coins, basically about right. For some reason the supply got cut short, somebody decided to post his copy for 25,000 coins, and at least in the moment the new market is at 20,000 or so… There are 10 or 12 copies now available but nobody is under cutting the market to sell for 15 or 12 or 10 K.

So basically while I like football and roster building, it is this kind of quirky stuff… Watching how small scale wide-open full information markets can work… This is the stuff that has me deeply interested in this little exercise. I like building my team, I like NFL football, I like how this is a mix of current and former players… But I love watching free markets work in real time. And, the market for a universe of completely identical cards, where every buyer and seller has Absolute and perfect information about the product, these markets are rapidly approaching the purely competitive market place that economics instructors ( like me, once) teach their classes as a matter of peer theory.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 12:14 PM

To elaborate slightly, in this game… As I have already discussed in this thread… There are occasional circumstances where the reward for completing a set is worth more than the cost of the components of the set itself. My son and I have picked up the phrasing of one of the Madden content creators, and we call that “printing quote as in, it is printing money.

How should a free market correct for this? Well, we can look at contests run by McDonald’s or Pepsi or whomever, where you have to collect a variety of letters or monopoly properties or things like that… In order to win prizes. In those cases, there is always a particularly difficult to obtain single item within each set… Essentially it is that one rare component that truly carries the value for that entire set. If the McDonald’s monopoly contest requires you to assemble four pieces together to win $1 million cash… But only one of those four pieces is rare, the rest are all common… And the proper way to assign the value of those four pieces is basically 1 million, zero, zero, zero. It is not true that each of the four pieces is worth a quarter million dollars. People who have collected three out of four of that set our Lourdes into thinking they have made progress, but in nearly all cases, they have accomplished virtually nothing in doing so.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 12:23 PM

So, right now, there is weirdness in the Rison set. There are multiple cards rated high 70s, that would ordinarily sell for something like 3 to 5000 coins. And, fairly randomly, a few of them have been selected in the moment for a much higher price… 15,000, 20,000, 40,000. Is this sustainable? I don’t think so. But this is a complicated group dynamic… What is the white right way for these cards to respond in a true free market place, where there is no particular scarcity among these components?

For the moment, let’s assume that the cost of the more expensive components in the rise and set are basically fixed. Not necessarily true, but it simplifies this discussion. Then we have some thing like 15 low value cards, of which a person needs all of them to complete the set. Each individual card should probably sell for 2000 3000 or 4000 coins. But the aggregated value, based on the worth of the cards returned by completing the set, makes the 15 cards collectively worth something more like 100,000 or more… Rather than just 15×3 or 4000. So, we end up with these oddities. Momentarily, a particular card becomes scarce, or simply unavailable, and it is an opportunity for profiteering. But, it should be unsustainable… There’s nothing specific to this 77 rated tackle that makes him worth 20,000, and another 77 card currently in reasonable supply. So, I have the patience, and the intellectual curiosity, to sit and wait and watch. Some people do not, particularly on the patients front, and they will see that the cheapest price that player is 18,000 cards and buy him for that price.

I suspect I will end up perched on the periphery of the rise and set for sometime ahead, it has all the makings of a market that should stay hot for a while… Wide receiver is a very important and high profile position in the game, Rison is a very good wide receiver among the best in the game right now, Rison has the ability to connect to five or six different franchise theme teams, that makes both his 90 rated for card and his 77 rated power up card truly valuable for sometime. People are going to want these cards, they are going to want to complete the set, and there will be continued demand for all these component parts… I’m not sure that I can make a bunch of money in the next few hours finding the specific cards for cheap and selling them for high prices, but over the course of days and days the tables might easily turn… Some of the cards that I have bought recently for two and three and 4000… Those might eventually turn into the relatively scarce cards and be selling for eight or 18,000.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 12:50 PM

So the bubble on the 77 Jake Matthews Falcons tackle card is starting to calm down… Prices have declined from 20,000 to about 14,000 in the last half hour, presumably on their way towards something that makes more sense. I’m not gonna try and buy on what I judge to be a downswing, but I will make a mental note that this is a card that could be a potential pinch point for the sat in the future. If the card completely settles back down to three or 4000, I will probably buy multiple copies anticipating that this could happen again, and I want to be ready to sell several copies for 15 or 20 if I get a chance.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 03:51 PM

So, spent about 80-90K on the card and training, and now have a 90-rated Ozzie Newsome as my TE1. He makes a difference in a few of my base plays, it's a good and energizing addition.

I bought a copy of WR Cribbs' power up card, but immediately posted it for sale to turn a profit. But I do expect to add him soon as well, and likely spend what it takes him to get up into the mid to high 80s, a meaningful improvement on my WR2 slot at the very least.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 03:55 PM

I think completing this Andre Rison set is probably profitable, right now, even with the handful of silly priced low cards. The Power Up continues to fetch 100K or more, and the 90-rated feature card is bringing in 250K or more. If you can clear 320 or even 350 from the combo... I think you can assemble the full set for less than that, even if you hold your nose and pay 15 for this and 35 for that along the way.

QuikSand

09-25-2021, 06:40 PM

The components of the Rison set are going batshit. I wish I had bought many more earlier today. Random cards just suddenly jumping from 4K to 10 and 20k. It’s nutso. I’m trying to keep up…

QuikSand

09-26-2021, 06:17 PM

Quick updates:

-have WR/KR Cribbs installed as my WR2, powered up to 88 I think. He’s shifty in limited play today. I will soon invest in boosting his return abilities.

-I finally finished the Andre Rison set, have the 90 card and 2x copies of the power up for sale now… if that sells I may get back to around 500k I’d guess.

-I’m familiar enough now with the Atl players needed for that set, and expect to be camping there as a routing sort-and-snipe for some time… “hey, that’s one of those guys who might blow up in price” (buy for 3500, re-list later for 12000)

-I’m starting to fool around with the 49ers Team Diamond set for Charles Haley, he’s very good and both the 49ers and Cowboys are popular theme teams

QuikSand

09-26-2021, 06:42 PM

Fun little find, and a big one for my Browns theme team... the Lions got LT Lomas Brown as their Team Diamond, so he's a high caliber player there. I did not recall that he flitted around the league a bit, late career, and apparently logged 1999 with the Browns.

So... that could/should be my next Team Diamond to investigate and at least get the Power Up card. Sounds like the PU is going for 40K or so, at the moment. Another 75K or so to push it to 88, and we'd have a left tackle who is... well, who's as good as the one I have now, but who has a little orange helmet in that space and I want that dammit.

Not an urgent priority, but on the want list now.

QuikSand

09-26-2021, 06:47 PM

Mentally, I am starting to contemplate what I'd be doing if I converted my CLE team to a "pure" Browns theme team... only guys with CLE chemistry allowed on the field.

We'd suffer at DT badly, and would have to cover with guys like DE Ogbah and maybe others.

We'd be awful at FS unless I switch out a SS to pay there.

CB would be thin, with Haden good and then a shaky-for-now Ward as CB2, then a pretty big drop to CB3.

And then there's QB. Yeah. Assuming I cannot afford the UberMarino or even his Power-Up card, then I'd be stuck with Baker and that would be a major limiting factor.

Not yet, nope, not going to do it. But I do have the itch to be rid of these fill-in players. It will build.

QuikSand

09-27-2021, 11:00 AM

Q: So, how do you churn out coins in this game, during a few minutes of spare time?

Okay, I will bring up the Madden Companion app on my phone/iPad when I have a few minutes in the waiting room, or whatever. If I have 3 minutes to spend, here's the drill:

-Do a quick sort in the auction house on something I understand pretty well

current example: Falcons rated 70-79... the guys who make up the ATL Andre Rison set that I am hammering

-Sort either by lowest price, or by newest items posted to the auction house

if I'm just fishing for good values for training, frex, lowest price gets right to the point... but latest posted is the preferred way to "snipe" an item that shouldn't have been made available that cheaply, because it won't last long

-Buy items at attractive prices, and either (a) re-post them for sale at aggressive prices for a quick flip, or (b) sit on them awaiting a change in the market eventually to do the same

That's basically it.

So... of late I have been trying to buy 85-rated cards to convert to training. I have noticed that the Legends set seems, especially over the weekend, to generate most of the deals. The key is to create a filter that yields no more than 100 players... and I managed to do so by selecting: Legends, All Offense (or All Defense), rated 84-85.

When I run that filter and sort by "newest" I see the new additions right at the top. I switch back and forth between O and D, and over the course of maybe a minute, I'm fairly likely to find an 85-rated card drop at my targets price of 25K or less. When I see it, buy it immediately. If all I do is use it for training, that price is acceptable.

Once I have the card, I look quickly to see what I might be able to re-sell it for. If that looks pretty good (say, 33k) then I will just put it up for auction. Buy at 25K, sell for (after 10% tax) 30K, that's a clean 5K in profit. This sounds absurd, but it is reliably available right around the training price, with a bit of patience. I suppose it's a bit like "farming" in a D&D style role playing game, where you kill the ogre, reload the section of the game, kill the ogre, rinse, repeat.

Anyway... give me a few minutes in the app, and I can likely swing a handful of deals like this. Just a few minutes ago: Bought a cheap component in the Andre Rison set twice for 3200 and 3300, set them aside for some time when they are selling for 6000 or 8000. Then found an 85 card for 22750, and immediately put it up for sale at 31,249 (a dollar less than the cheapest one out there). Then, I also grabbed a couple cheap gold cards not in the Rison set but who were "too cheap" and worth grabbing just for use in other sets I know I can make... right now I'll pay 1200 for a 70-74 rated card, and 2400 for a 75-79 rated card no matter what it is, there are other sets using these where those numbers are reliable profitable.

QuikSand

09-28-2021, 06:16 AM

Got my 272K asking price for 90 Andre Rison overnight, I’m back to 486K in cash.

QuikSand

09-28-2021, 11:45 AM

In this week's Team of the Week there's an 84-rated Kareen Hunt - meaning his power-up card, with that 84 absorbed, will now go to 85. With our team chems in effect, he'll play like an 86. Good enough for RB2 and a guy to use on RPO plays, which I'm trying a lot of lately.

There's also a new Myles Garrett card coming out - the net effect for high-end gamers is that his Power Up card will have another level added to its maximum, making him a must-have 94(?) for power Madden gamers, I think. I can't even afford his top card as it stands, so no effect on me short term.

QuikSand

09-28-2021, 02:52 PM

Q: So, how do you know what to do with these weirdly expensive players?

A: You don't.

Honestly, I'm gambling here... but after watching the Rison set drive several specific cards to silly high prices (and knowing that Rison is likely to remain an in-demand set for some time) I am taking a gamble that any of the cards that I have seep "spike" at least one or two times are going to be prone to doing so again.

So, that 72 LOLB Brandon Copeland card that over the weekend was going for 10-15K... yeah, it has settled down to something like 5K right now, but I am seeing that as a trough in a system, rather than a permanent return to sanity, I'm buying the dip. For cards like that, I just plan to have a copy sitting around for sale at 12,999 most days, just in case supply gets short and I end up with the only one out there. It happens.

I'm trying to max these opportunities out... the 78 Foyesade Oluokon card has been going for 20 or even 30K (I have a sale from yesterday for 28,999 in my outgoing transactions). Right now I could buy one for 14,000... and I'm not doing that, there's too much downside there, I think.

The 78 Kyle Pitts that was going for 40K over the weekend? 8K right now. I am sitting on 3x copies, in hopes that it goes nutso again. I do expect that to happen, and I hope to be there selling at 36,999.

Sometimes I guess wrong, and get stuck with a massively declining asset, it happens.

QuikSand

09-28-2021, 04:01 PM

Looks like the Team of the Week just dropped... market flooded with those guys, they are super cheap suddenly. Getting 80-rated Myles Garret cards for 8500 and less, this is pure profit to turn them into Team Builders sets... 3x8500 + 3x2000 = 31,500 and sell the resulting card for over 44K. Going to grind TF out of this.

QuikSand

09-28-2021, 06:57 PM

I'm in a weird spot with this flood of TOTW cards... last week I went overboard and spent all my cash on 87 Lamar cards at 45-50K, and then pushed them out the door for 60, only to watch that exact card appreciate in value to where they were going for 75 over this past weekend.

Today I bought a ton of 80-rated cards for 8500 or less, and a handful of 87s, fully expecting them to appreciate as well. But now I'm broke and bored.

AlexPhilip

09-29-2021, 03:55 AM

Very nice saints team. I have a feeling you might get some more of the dome patrol. Saints could be a real nice choice further down the road. Im looking forward to a nice lattimore card, i like how he plays usually

QuikSand

09-29-2021, 11:32 AM

Right now, I have a peculiar situation… Without really planning to, I now have all the pieces to assemble the full set to get the maxed out Ozzie Newsome card. The card itself would be a massive difference maker for my team, I think, because a 92 rated player would probably be faster than anyone trying to cover him, with a few exceptions.

However, it’s also a market opportunity… There are at any given point in time just one or two or three copies of that 91 Newsom card available in the market… So, not only can I possibly sell it for a high price, but I might be able to manipulate this market for weeks ahead. One of the component cards to assemble Ozzie is an 84 rated Cooper Kupp, and that card is also in relatively scarce supply… I currently have my four copies on the market for 35,000 coins, which is a silly and absurd price on purpose. But it does seem to me that even one active user like me, can create some artificial scarcity here… If it costs 35K for each of those Cooper Kupp cards, then the price to assemble Newsom goes up, fewer people will be willing to do it, and when I can extract from my copy or maybe be 350 K, rather than 275K. It’s not out of the question that I end up assembling this site, and selling Ozzy, multiple times over in the weeks ahead.

QuikSand

09-30-2021, 05:09 PM

Busy week IRL, have been grabbing idle minutes here and there on the app, mostly just re-listing some of my players for sale (I finally have worked through most of those 84 Team Builders I bought early this week, sticking with my 42K+ price for each though it took days)... and still churning gold Falcons who are part of the Rison set. May be left standing on a few guys where I bought at 9K hoping to spin them for 18K, and now the card is selling for 5K... but I'll sit on them in hopes of seeing the wave come back around, as it often does. Probably 100-150K tied up this way between ATL and SF set players.

Cash on hand is around 450K, so I'll be ready in case something exciting drops...

QuikSand

09-30-2021, 05:10 PM

Sounds like a "Gridiron Guardians" program drops tomorrow, with a new slate of guys... top tier are at 90 rating. 86 Jarvis Landry in the mix, that will help both the CLE and MIA teams.

QuikSand

09-30-2021, 07:04 PM

Q: What's the deal with these Power Up cards again, for guys you already have?

Since I haven't explained this very well to this point... and in the event anyone is reading, here's what the new Jarvis Landry card means for me, right now.

At the moment, Landry is my WR5 for the CLE theme team. I used the cheap Power Up card that started at something like 68 or 70, and then used incremental amounts of training to improveit up to something like 78 or 79. The next step for the Power Up card's improvement path required a copy of the 80-rated elite card for the same player. I bought that card, used it to power up my Power Up card to 81 overall, and that's where he is now - maxed out.

Tomorrow when they release the new 86 Landry card, it will probably create two new levels of powering up available through training... so maybe I will be able to pay something like 250 training to move my guy from 81 to 83, and then another 370 to train him up from 83 to 85. From there, I'd need a copy of the 86 rated card to move him to an 87 overall.

So, it's good for me - especially since he happens to fit with both my theme teams at the moment. A bit costly, but this should ice the decision to trade-back Devin Hester and replace him with Junior Seau (one of the special cards, a season champion, where I got a choice of two players and may reverse that decision up to 3x). Both my CLE and MIA teams are more needy at MLB than they are at WR now, in part because of Landry showing up here and likely becoming my slot receiver.

Chas in Cinti

09-30-2021, 08:00 PM

Seau played for the Dolphins IRL... so shouldn't he not be a "special" player for that team? Allowing you a different non-MIA guy?

QuikSand

09-30-2021, 08:43 PM

Seau played for the Dolphins IRL... so shouldn't he not be a "special" player for that team? Allowing you a different non-MIA guy?

Apparently, EA deploys a variety of these special players as a way to have a lot of "side missions" going for those of us who might otherwise lose interest. I'm sure if I looked closely, I'd find that if I could just get from 84 to 100 interceptions, I'd get another card to help advance SS Kam Chancellor... or something like that.

This year, the "Season 1 Champion" was Hester or Seau, and can take team chemistry for any franchise. It's a way to help you feel like you have some build-around players, I guess. It's fine, I guess... but it feels kinda hollow if you're a true believer.

So, here, the fact that Seau actually did play for Miami IRL is not relevant, in the way that, say, RB Thurman Thomas did is (since he's just a regular Team Diamond card with a Power Up). The Dolphins theme team is just overloaded with RB now, it's silly at this stage -- Ricky Williams, Thurman Thomas, Ronnie Brown, and Reggie Bush all probably among the top ten in the game.

QuikSand

10-01-2021, 12:26 PM

The market seems to have dipped overall today… the simplest measure is “training price” in gold/training. Right now there are 89 players that yield 3,150 in training… available for around 80k in gold, or a training price of about 26. Below 30 was impossible a few days ago, even last night.

I completed the Charles Haley set, and sold the 90 card, so I have over 600,000 gold heading into the weekend.

QuikSand

10-01-2021, 04:27 PM

I do not have any details, but usually when the market dips like this… Especially when it coincides with a release of a new program, that ordinarily means that some new item is available in the in game store, and it is more generous than what we are used to. Sometimes, that presents an arbitrage opportunity… Especially if you can buy a pack of cards using the training currency. You go and buy training as cheaply as possible, and then use the training to buy those packs of cards, hoping to get more back in value than what you put into by the original cards/training. No details here, and I am unlikely to be able to take advantage… But that might be what’s going on right now.

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 07:15 AM

LT Joe Thomas is one of the two new Legends cards dropping today, big for the Browns theme team.

I’m north of 800K in cash, I’m ready for a meaningful addition.

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 08:52 AM

Okay, assuming Joe Thomas comes out looking like last week’s Legends cards, these are the cards coming out today, and the “training value” price for each of them. Noting it here, in part because release day tends to get weird.

84 rating … 490 training … 12,500 gold is fair price
85 … 710 … 17,500
86 … 1030 … 25,500
87 … 1500 … 37,500
89 … 3150 … 80,000
(And the boss, a set of multiples of the above)
91 … 7000 … 175,000

I’d like to land a 91 card today for him, likely through building the set. But I’ll be liking for value wherever it pops up. In my experience the packs people open in pursuit of the big cards tend to skew the market on Saturdays, sometime in contrasting directions… e.g. the 85 card is way too expensive but the 87 is way too cheap. It tends to sort itself out, creating arbitrage opportunities again.

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 08:54 AM

…ooh just saw a tweet with an image of the top cards for today. 92, not 91, adjusting accordingly but that will likely make Thomas the god squad LT for a while (meaning high demand).

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 09:40 AM

I bought the first copy of the 88 JT card for 90,100… trying to flip it for 179,999.

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 09:44 AM

…sold at 173,999 (had to adjust to undercut the undercutters) … nice quick hit

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 10:40 AM

My Browns theme team is coming together pretty nicely. I’m still relying on a handful of fill-in cards to keep the quality high enough to play well, but that’s abating.

Goals ahead:

-improve LT and sell off the non-CLE placeholder there
-upgrade RT Conklin (88 card running 100K or so)
-get OLB Jamie Collins, use him at ROLB slot

QuikSand

10-02-2021, 09:22 PM

At roughly 650k in cash… with a few hundred more in various stages of assembly and selling. Could cross 1m this week.

QuikSand

10-03-2021, 10:06 AM

Okay, a snapshot of the LT Joe Thomas cards, now that the market has settled down a good deal. I splashed around and made a bit more money on these, but the big hit was right at the start, correctly banking on the initial enthusiasm to get the set done... that hit (buying high and selling super high) on the 88 cleared me a lot of cash.

Prices (approximate based on recent sales) now:

85 22,000
86 35,000
87 46,000
88 80,000
90 155,000

So, the complete group of these needed to build the set for the 92 "boss" card totals roughly 338K. The 92 card is selling for right around that price now...maybe even a little cheaper (early this morning in the 290s, right now in the 330s). So...building this set is not sufficiently profitable to make it worthwhile, without really working to get the components at a discount.

I got my 90 card at about 130K yesterday, and I plan to just sit on it and start him at LT for the indefinite future - like, probably, until February. I just don't have the means to push for the indefinite boost from moving from 90 to 92 at the cost of 150-200K in coins. I can do a lot with that much cash. LT is settled, in my mind, for now.

QuikSand

10-03-2021, 10:33 AM

I'm also going to keep an eye on the TOTW Week 2 set for TE Ozzie Newsome, partially because I'm already in the habit of watching those players (built the set once already) but partially because it's overpriced right now.

Components needed (and current prices):
3x 87 Lamar Jackson @75,000 (!)
4x 84 Cooper Kupp @22,000
5x 80 Derrick Henry @12,000
- - - - -
Simple purchase cost = ~373K

Return from the set:
1x 91 Ozzie Newsome @260,000
1x 79 PU Ozzie @5,000

So... completing this set by purchasing the components doesn't make sense right now. Rather than see this as a lost cause, I am instead going to focus on the weird market for the underling cards. I don't know why Lamar is going to highly priced - maybe it's in anticipation of him getting a new, better card sometime fairly soon. That would add up - you'd need his 87 card to fully power him up to and through the new top card, so this might just be investors.

Regardless, I know there's a smaller set assembling a number of lower tier cards (like 70s rated) to get one random-level TOTW card from a given week. Because these component cards are sort of overpriced, that set might be "printing" now. I have a solid stash of gold cards ready to do, if so. Need console access to pull up that set, but it's likely something like 10-16 lower cards to get one random one... if they cost 2K each, then you'd need to get at least an 84 to make it worthwhile, I suspect.

Regardless, right now I have 4x Derrick Henry cards for sale at 14,999 (purchased under 10K each) just because supply is thin at the moment. I have sold off all my Kupp cards but will look to replenish there when the opportunity presents. And Lamar... just a wait and see, I can't find any reason to buy at 75K when training value for an 87 card is down close to 40K right now. The card is not that special, I must be missing something.

QuikSand

10-03-2021, 02:28 PM

I keep buying the 88 Jack Conklin card, intending to use it to power up my Browns RT position. But then, I always say, “well, it will be a while before I get onto the consul, so I will just post the card for sale at a profit until then.” And then he sells at a profit of 10-15K over my buy price. Good problem to have.

QuikSand

10-03-2021, 04:10 PM

Q: What cards/players is the Browns theme team hoping for?

QB is urgent. Give me a pretty decent quarterback, and I can be ready to flip the switch and make my Browns theme theme a pure theme. That is really by far the number one thing holding the team back. Overtime, the candidates would be any of the classic browns pocket passers…Otto Graham, Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar. And, there are a couple candidates to be viable scramblers in Tyrod Taylor, and most especially RG3. If I could just get one of these guys at 88 or 89, I’d flip the switch.

CB is a problem, too… Haden is ok, Ward will get a boost, but we’ll need a new face, for certain. Hanford Dixon, Frank Minnifield are the Dawg Pound candidates, and Jason McCourty is the sort of guy who could get a “Veterans” card given his multiple franchises.

S is not great, only one legit starter in Johnson at 86, but the Kam Chancellor card plays for any franchise, and he’ll keep improving. Jordan Poyer and Jabril Peppers can get into the 80s, one of them likely gets a better card before too long. All these guys are natural SS, but could fill in at FS where we’ve got nothing.

DT is really weak. Malik Jackson could get a decent card, but our best hope is probably Michael Dean Perry, a big legend card last year. For now my best play is DE Ogbah out of position, not good.

ROLB is a cover-with-someone for now, I’d get Jamie Collins if pressed for now. Clay Matthews seems like the guy to plug in, though he’d more likely be slotted at MLB, which would be a need also. D’Qwell Jackson also seems obvious there.

QuikSand

10-03-2021, 07:18 PM

So I worked myself into a little bit of a rabbit hole with Cooper Kupp. There were not very many copies on the market, so I thought that I could create some artificial scarcity by buying the cheap ones at 1819 and 20 K. The whole goal was to put my copies on sale for 24 and 25K, and clear on Michael’s Apple*So I worked myself into a little bit of a rabbit hole with Cooper Kupp. There were not very many copies on the market, so I thought that I could create some artificial scarcity by buying the cheap ones at 1819 and 20 K. The whole goal was to put my copies on sale for 24 and 25K, and clear a mild profit from each one. Alas, I think I have sold a total of one copy at my price, and the supply continues to be replenished at 1819 and 20 K… I bought four, then a couple more, than a couple more… Now I think I have 12 or 14 copies costing me probably a quarter million coins.

QuikSand

10-04-2021, 08:02 PM

Sounds like Trevon Diggs gets the top TOTW card for week 4. Cordarelle Patterson seems likely (and useful as a return nan?), maybe Taylor Heinecke? Tyreek should get a low level card and a +1 level fir his power up card. Maybe Mahomes and David Montgomery too.

QuikSand

10-05-2021, 02:29 PM

Strange state of affairs for my account right now:

38K in cash

Current cards on the auction block to sell:
90 RB Faulk seeking 150K (after tax)
89 cards x4 seeking about 105K each
88 cards x4 seeking about 90K each
84 Kupp x4 seeking 20K each
Various ATL set cards seeking a total of about 120K

So... if everything were to sell immediately, I'd be sitting on roughly 1.2M in gold. More likely, some of these will sell and others won't and it will be gradual.

I am hoping that the relative abundance of 88 and 89 rated guys at (seemingly) attractive prices was just a mild downswing, rather than a market realignment. For the last week or so I have felt vary comfy buying 89 cards at 80K or less... with expectations that I will be able to sell them at 110K or better. If the party is just over there, and these cards are all just worth 80K now, then I will end up having to sell a lot at a modest loss here. Fingers crossed.

QuikSand

10-05-2021, 06:11 PM

Prices are definitely down for some reason…ugh

QuikSand

10-06-2021, 07:21 AM

So, I still don’t have a clear picture of what has happened over the last few days… But there is clearly a downward shift in prices overall. I have been watching 89 cards for the last week or two, and had settled into an understanding of their market… 80 K was a comfortable by price, knowing that I would likely be able to sell the card for substantially over 100 K. Now, I think I need to realign that thinking… 70 K is now the comfortable by price,, with hopes that I can sell the card at 85-90k.

QuikSand

10-06-2021, 11:58 AM

A bingo for my theme teams in the Veterans release today, one that I felt might be coming. A 91 CB Jason McCourty, who will (in this particular program) be usable with any of the franchises where he has played- including both CLE and MIA. Nice, though he’s out of my price range for a while, likely. Going for more than 200K. But a big double addition.

Poli

10-06-2021, 01:32 PM

This is rather fascinating. I tend to play this a lot until my first trip takes me out of town...I miss out on Team of the Week, or some of the weekly challenges and I end up losing interest.

Thank you for sharing this!

QuikSand

10-06-2021, 04:19 PM

:thumbsup:

QuikSand

10-06-2021, 07:44 PM

Back up over 500K… prices crept up a click, and I settled for lower sell prices than I had hoped. So it goes.

I have bought the big Ozzie Newsome card and on my theme team he is very very powerful. Plan was to sell him, but now I reckon I’ll just keep him as the focus of our offense. Also have the 88 Jamie Collins out there at ROLB. So, the vein of true Browns continues to creep forward.

QuikSand

10-07-2021, 06:39 PM

Looks like a legit market crash today, though I don’t see anyone explaining why. 89 cards that had been selling 85-100k yesterday and this morning are suddenly sitting around at 75 and even less… and I’m on the wrong side, thin in cash and heavy in cards.

QuikSand

10-08-2021, 10:42 AM

The market now seems to have pretty much stabilized… It appears that it is now possible to buy training for about 20 gold. That is the easiest way to understand the market, what is the cheapest available training? Two weeks ago, the answer to that was somewhere around 35 gold… It clicked down kind of gradually to around 30 or maybe 27… Yesterday there was a substantial drop in the afternoon, and now that number seems to be about 20.

I have not gone out to forge through the YouTube contact creators, and others, who follow this stuff more closely than I do… Most likely what has happened is EA made some changes in Pack odds. Meaning, there are packages of cards that you can buy on the EA store in game, and when you open them up they have various percent chances to be cards of various levels. Generally speaking, when EA goes in and makes the pack odds more generous on something relatively high profile, that fundamentally realize the relationship between quality cards (training) and the cheapest way to get them. So, this sounds a little bit subtle, but markets are supposed to work this way… If your chance of getting a 90 rated card got bumped up from 5% to 8% when you buy a certain pack… That should cascade through the entire market place and realign what it costs, in fact, to obtain a 90 rated card.

Anyway, I am in the somewhat on the enviable situation of having most of my relatively free resources tied up in cards, rather than in liquid cash or gold. So, there are a bunch of 89 rated cards that I now possess, that I purchased for 80, 75, or 70 K in gold… My hope has been to sell them for 100 K or so, and clear a profit on each. Now, if the market has basically settled at 70 K being the good buy price, maybe all I can get will be 75-80K, less 10% in taxes. It’s not awful, just disappointing.

300K in cash now, and about 900k in asking prices on the block.

QuikSand

10-08-2021, 11:11 AM

Right now I am checking out the prices of the component cards for the Andre Rison set, yet again. I still have quite a lot of them in my inventory, it looks like only a couple cards are still priced at absurdly high levels for their overall rating. It may be cheaper to assemble the side, and to just go out and buy the power up card, and the 90 rated top card. I am assessing my options.

If I were to add Rison, I think that probably would allow me to switch my team captain from Lance Alworth to another player, probably Jack Youngblood, to add some depth along my defensive line. That remains perilously thin with actual Browns.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 08:16 AM

Michael Vick drops today in the Legends program... he's a move-the-needle player in Madden, and likely will make today a great buying opportunity (as a lot of people will buy and open packs in search of him). Since I remain so far away from Marino for my Browns team... I may even grab a Vick whole they are (hopefully) cheap.

I am still anxious to get to a full Browns roster, but as long as QB is non-viable there, I might as well have fun. I have poured some money into the roster (did the Rison set twice, and kept him maxed-out the second time, and finally committed to get the RT Conklin upgraded). I moved my captain to SS John Lynch for now, using him at FS for the moment - he's a major improvement there. Still thin at DL, so that may change.

Anyway...today could be an active day.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 08:41 AM

I’m as 560K in cash, with 4x 89 cards up for sale hoping to get 300K for them. Have other odds and ends out there too… probably 1m in assets not tied up in the active roster.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 10:02 AM

OMG the market for Vick is insane… abandoning the idea of getting those cards for now, will instead try to make money off less exciting Legends cards like LT Joe Thomas… Vickhunters are ripping packs and spewing all their non Vick cards… I have the pieces for two full JT sets in hand now hoping to sell for a profit come Monday.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 10:05 AM

For a guy like me, with limited gold, the relatively cheap power up card for Michael Vick plus the training to take him up to 89 or 90 will prove to be way, way cheaper than just buying the 90 rated card directly. Complete opposite of the situation with other Legends like Thomas et al.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 10:09 AM

I know it is hard to create proper context, for those who are not as immersed as I am in these markets… But everything is relative to training price. A 90 card, in the market right now, should sell for about 100 K in gold… That is basically training price, meaning the card has no extra value beyond its ability to immediately convert training.

The 90 card for Joe Thomas is selling right at 90 or 95K. A little bit below training. So, it is a good value to buy right now, if you really need training, as noted above. The Charles Woodson card, that also dropped today, it’s 90 version is selling for 250 K. The Michael Vick 90 card is selling for 510 K. That is how weird this market is right now.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 11:34 AM

Mut.gg now showing training prices dropped yet again…My investments this morning, I’ve basically all the cash I had, were predicated on this being temporary… And that the current training price of 16 is unsustainable and will grow back up to 20 or 22 by the end of the weekend. If not, I am probably leaking even more cash. So it goes.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 11:39 AM

There is a particularly curious situation happening right now with a power up card for Michael Vick. There are more than 100 copies available in the marketplace, of that exact card, which creates a presentation problem. As I have mentioned before, the auction viewer in the consul, and for the most part in the handheld app, is only capable of showing 100 cards at a time. This is a great source of market imperfections, under many different circumstances. But usually, a savvy manager can filter down to a set of cards fewer than 100, to see the entire universe.

Here, because it looks like they are 150 or so copies of this exact card in the market, the game only shows the 100 that are closest to completion. Meaning, most people are only seeing the cards that have survived their first 20 or so minutes on the auction block… Meaning all the cheap prices have been grabbed, and only high prices remain. If you are cash rich, and I am not right now, for as long as this remains the case… There is money to be made by simply buying cards as soon as they drop into the market for 10 K, listing them for 18 K, and profiting about 20m later.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 12:42 PM

I also continue to keep at least one eye on the Andre Rison set. Most of these team diamonds have lost their profitability… When the sets first came out, most of these cards were selling for well over 200 K… Many of them now are only around 100 K. Because the component parts have not shrunk in price along with the top card, assembling the set is now a money sink. And for me, without a huge store of cash, the ability to do all 32 of those sets, in order to get the big Dan Marino card and it’s power up card, is a far away dream. I just don’t have enough money to do it.

That said, for reasons I got into earlier in this thread, the Andre Rison card remains interesting… The last copy I saw selling was still over 200 K. Right now there are zero copies available. So, I continue to splash around both buying and selling the various components in this set… If I have Consol access soon, I may even take a look at what I could get for my own copy of the 90 card. But, there continues to be interest in the set, meaning there is weird and somewhat unpredictable interest in component cards…It is not completely random, but it is weird that certain cards… Nothing special about them, just rated in the 70s, and cards that should sell for about two or 3000 coins… Routinely spike up to 6000, 10,000, even 20 or more. So, I am just fiddling around and buying low, selling high when I see an opportunity.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 01:58 PM

Wow. After no copies of the 90 Rison card were available for a while, somebody posted it for 555,000 and sold it. Dayum.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:11 PM

There are now two copies of rising on the market… The lower of the two is around 500 K or higher is 900 K. The longer things sit this way, the more super charge the market out to be for all the component parts… People seeing $’s if they can just assemble their own set and post one for 400 K, they will clear nice tidy profit. I am the guy trying to take cards that I’ve previously purchased for 3000, and sell to that guy for 25,000.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:14 PM

I do not have access to my consul, so I cannot uncouple my Andre Rison 90 card in order to sell it. If I were at home, I would do that, and go post it for 480,000.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:20 PM

The 90k Rison guy wised up, reposted for 460k, and got a sale. Just the 500k left now. Temporarily very lucrative.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:36 PM

Now five copies of the 90 Rison card available… Lowest price 396K. Everybody is trying to get in on this.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:38 PM

…just occurring to me this is likely fallout from the Vick card. Lots of semi committed Madden players suddenly saying “hey I’ll do a Falcons team around Vick” and I’m just sitting here with all the dope to deal.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:48 PM

Basically, I am the guy selling picks and shovels

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:53 PM

The trick here, sometimes, is that it’s hard to know how far down the rabbit hole I should be willing to go. Right now, supply of the 80 Matt Ryan card is pretty limited, and that is part of the Rison set. It’s correct market price is probably eight or 10,000 gold. Right now, if I someone for less than 15, I just buy it and list it for 25 or 30 or 45, in hopes that mine will be the last one available for somebody who is itching to get their copy of Rison out onto the market. So far so good, I have purchased two, sold two, then purchased two more, and… well, how many more would I buy to keep enforcing this artificial scarcity? I cannot sell my copy for 40 K if there are others on the market, but do I want to buy two, three, four, six additional copies at 10 K just to try to make one sale at 40?

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 02:55 PM

And right after posting that, I just bought another Ryan for 14, so my 44 would be the cheapest one available. All I need is one good high margin sale, and this is all worthwhile, otherwise I could end up tomorrow morning with 11 copies of Matt Ryan that I don’t really need or want.

QuikSand

10-09-2021, 03:09 PM

Party mostly over now. 90 Rison back in reasonable supply, low price 276K… still a shade high but not absurd any longer. I think I’ve cleared maybe 160k during this weird little run, all buying and selling trinkets.

QuikSand

10-10-2021, 01:50 PM

Don’t look now, but they are only two copies of the 90 Andre Rison card on the market, the lower price is 350 K. I’ll be giving a look at my inventory, to see if there’s anything left that I can sell at a premium. I already see 177 rated card that is selling for 40,000 coins. Might be silly season again.

QuikSand

10-10-2021, 07:32 PM

So, nothing too interesting today... I separated my 90 Rison and posted it for sale at 340K, but I was too late, prices started creeping down soon afterward, and I won't get a sale, almost certainly. No harm done there.

I had a copy of 90 Cribbs for sale and when it went for 188,888 I checked and there was a short term shortage there... so I built another one and posted it for sale around the same price. Then i saw one pop up for 135,000 and bought it and posted it, as well, near 190K. So far, no bites on either, I might end up holding the bag.

Prices drifting modestly up (training was down to 17, now drifting to 19ish)... I have a sizable amount of capital tied up in cards I want to sell so I'd welcome a small swell in prices for a bit, just to sell off.

I'll do a status update on the Browns theme team soon, it's basically up to date save for a handful of very expensive things that I simply cannot buy with my means.

QuikSand

10-10-2021, 07:52 PM

The QB situation for the CLE team is so frustrating. I am basically now to the point where I can live with the entire roster except my 81 Baker Mayfield. The only themed option out there is the big Dan Marino card, and even just the Power Up card is still going for 500K I think. Just out of my price range.

I had been thinking the Michael Vick was my tide-me-over, but... they clearly nerfed the intermediate cards that you can build with the Power up card plus training. Sure, you can get him to a 90 overall rating, but he will not even resemble the same player shown on the 90-rated card (going for 700K). Speed of 85 rather than 93... that's just a big "fuck you" to people like me.

So... I either keep rolling with my limber but unthemed Vince Young... slum it with Baker...or I don't know what else. Likely just sit back with Vince and wait for someone to pop up in one of their programs. I'd be down for Otto Graham, why not.

QuikSand

10-10-2021, 08:02 PM

Wow, the flood of Legends cards from Saturday must have dried up… my 92 Joe Thomas just sold for 262,999 after sitting all day as a high priced outlier. I may try to steal some condole time and build another copy or two, to try to take advantage.

QuikSand

10-11-2021, 11:26 AM

TE Njoku seems like a possibility for a TOTW card, despite the loss.

QuikSand

10-11-2021, 09:50 PM

TOTW each week includes three featured players based on performances of days gone by. WR Miles Austin gets a 92 card tomorrow… he breezed through Cleveland for one season so his power up card will allow CLE chemistry. Nice addition.

WR Will Fuller gets a 93 limited edition card for someday, he may be the best speed receiver in the game now, will cost a ton.

QuikSand

10-12-2021, 05:49 AM

Sitting at just shy of 400K in cash, and have several big cards for sale…realistic yield for all of them totaling 800K. Add in another 100k of fluff and I’m practically speaking sitting on about 1.3m.

I’ll probably try to buy the pieces of the Miles Austin set when TOTW pops this morning, it always creates a short term market dip for those cards. I’m supposed to have an active morning so we’ll see.

QuikSand

10-12-2021, 06:28 AM

So, my Browns theme team is at a sort of plateau now… I have nearly every cheap option fulfilled, and due to market conditions am sitting ready to decide where to invest in the more expensive stuff:

-WR Rison is powered up as far as he goes without his 90 card, and is my WR2. For about 225K I can buy/keep the 90 card, add the Route Technician skill, and he’s a high end possession receiver.

-WR Cribbs similar, his top card is cheaper at around 150K, with it he’d be a decent left side X deep threat and return man.

-RB Chubb is sitting at 89 or 90, and needs the top card to max out as a high end power RB, I’m watching the market but cheapest price is around 325K now.

-CB McCourty is positioned the same way, but the delta is huge with his final card…CB isn’t sexy but this feels important to get him to 92 and much much better for around 125K

-WR Austin will sit as the next big thing but it’s not clear he’d be a huge improvement over Rison, and I don’t really rely on WR3 a ton right now…expensive, likely onto the “down the road” list (or possibly a Rison alternative)

So, as far as cards that are currently available, that fit the Browns themed team… These are really the remaining branches on the tree for me. I currently own the Rison card, the Cribbs card, and the McCourty card… I have a total of five copies of these sitting on the auction block, so I could easily just withdraw them from the sale, and upgrade what I have.

QuikSand

10-12-2021, 03:36 PM

TOTW each week includes three featured players based on performances of days gone by. WR Miles Austin gets a 92 card tomorrow… he breezed through Cleveland for one season so his power up card will allow CLE chemistry. Nice addition.

Austin card opens up around 330K for the 92card, and another 50K for the Power Up. Components for the set are priced crazy high for now, but if they simmer down, it could get more reasonable, I'll hope.

QuikSand

10-14-2021, 05:35 AM

With prices making their mild but predictable rise from Saturday to midweek, I have sold off nearly all the cards I wanted to, and am up over 1.1m in cash. From my list of team improvements mentioned above:

-the 90 Rison card never sold at my asking prices, and has fallen off in value, I just melted it back into the Power Uo and expect to keep it

-I sold 3x of the 92 Joe Thomas cards, assembled from set cards purchased last Saturday during the Legends frenzy… at a mild profit but not a major one

-the CB McCourty card I bought and sold a few times is now mine via weekly challenges, so that’s done

Anyway, a new program launches tomorrow: Most Feared, a multi week release w a Hallowe’en theme and waves of new cards, both current and historic players. Usually fruitful.

QuikSand

10-14-2021, 09:34 AM

Team Diamonds - a (sort of) wrap up post

I noted here, with some enthusiasm, the team diamonds program. A pretty big deal for this game in its yearly cycle, it provides one high-level player for each franchise, available to gain by completing an expensive set of various players from that franchise. This year, the team diamond players were rated 90, making them among the most useful and coveted players in the game at that time. In addition, there was an extra incentive, if you completed all 32 of the team diamond sets, you gained tokens sufficient to complete a set for a supercharged 95 Dan Marino card, Which was both the highest rated card in the game, and usable with all 32 theme teams. A deliberately very powerful card, and one that many people would engage the lengthy process to obtain. Overall, this is a pretty well thought out program to launch in the early stages of this year long campaign.

Now, the situation has changed. The various 90 rated team diamond cards are no longer highly coveted, they are no longer generally speaking selling for 250 K… Many of them are now selling for more or less training value, which for a 90 rated card is about 100 K. There are still a handful that sell at a premium, but that is more like 180 K. Prices for the relatively modest components of these sets, however, have not shrunk along with the price for the top and card… Meaning that finishing these individual sets is no longer profitable, or even a break even proposition. For the relatively boring cards that are now selling for 100 K, purchasing the components might cost 175K, or thereabouts.

So, the net effect of this program, now that it has kind of run its course, is that the rich got richer, and the poor get the picture. If you had lots and lots of coins, or lots and lots of time, or preferably both… You went out and assembled all 32 of these sets, got many of those players, sold them back for more coins at a profit, and then assemble the Dan Marino and his power up card… And you now probably still possess the most powerful card in the game. Or, alternatively, you sold the Marino card at a premium price and got back, say, one and a half million coins.

I landed somewhere in the middle. I never had enough coins to really engage in all 32 sets, so I did my own bit of profiteering here and there, I ended up completing six of the sets, a few of them more than once, and did OK by the whole thing. But now, the Marino card is basically unreachable for me. I can’t afford to sync 1 million coins in the process of doing the remaining 26 of these sets, just in hopes of getting a Marino card that sells now for 800 K.

It’s fine, the way I play this game, committing to not spending real money, means that I miss out on some of the high-end things… They want to have things in the game be so moving and exciting to push people to pay real money through micro transactions. I get it, it is a business.

So, in practical effect, I think my ability to continue grinding out coins as components of these sets will be much more sparse. I have done the Andre Rison set six or seven times now, and I have bought and sold some of the peculiar parts for that set many times over. Now, I am seeing some of the peculiar cards that had previously been selling inexplicably for 10 or 15 or 20 K… Those cards are now available for 3000 coins. Two weeks ago, I would jump on this… Now, I just don’t have much confidence that there will be resilience in these sets. I will probably finish Rison one more time, try to sell it for 180 K, and that’s probably it.

QuikSand

10-14-2021, 09:40 AM

My dream scenario for the weeks ahead, is that as part of the most feared program coming up… They will once again have a segment of players labeled as scary fast. This alongside a section of scary strong, and some thing else similarly named. What my theme theme desperately needs is for the Madden creators to decide that they are scary fast quarterback for this program will be RG3. They have already introduced Michael Vick into the game, there are already pretty good cards for Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray… RG3 would be an excellent complement to the array of scrambling quarterbacks. And he’d get Browns chemistry of course.

Make it so!

QuikSand

10-14-2021, 09:41 AM

(Please forgive audio typos)

QuikSand

10-14-2021, 06:06 PM

Hit 1.5m in cash so that’s nice

QuikSand

10-15-2021, 08:57 PM

I wrote off that Rison set too early, on fire tonight.

QuikSand

10-16-2021, 06:30 AM

I’m where I want to be this morning…mostly in cash as the new Legends drop and hopefully we see another mini market crash.

I have 1,865,848 on hand. Training going for around 22… last Saturday that dipped to nearly 17, hoping for the same today. Planning to load up on cheap Legends, including Joe Thomas, and do some more training upgrades on the CLE roster.

QuikSand

10-16-2021, 06:37 AM

Reminder….the “training price” is a shorthand for the state of the overall market.

Example: a 90 rated player quick sells for 5,000 training points. In today’s market, if I’m a bit patient, I can get a 90 card (one who isn’t in especially high demand) for about 110,000 gold… paying 22 gold for each training point.

My hope is that the 90 Joe Thomas will have a supply bump today as people open packs, and that price will drop to something more like 85,000 to 90,000. But last week was Michael Vick, a big event…today some less exciting new players in Andre Johnson and Ronnie Lott.

QuikSand

10-16-2021, 04:34 PM

So among the prizes awarded in the new “Most Feared” program are special strategy cards that make a MAJOR effect on players from that program in your lineup. Only usable vs CPU opponents, not for serious online gamers, but for me…potentially a big deal.

One makes those guys super fast (+10 speed!) but tiny. That’s been interesting. The others I haven’t fiddled either yet are super strong, and super tall. Will fiddle around a bit, especially with a roster loaded with these MF players.

But could be the text phase with my Browns as I await a good themed QB? Maybe a tiny but fast 90 Derek Carr? Or a monstrous DT Jonathan Allen?

QuikSand

10-16-2021, 08:40 PM

Prices remaining stubbornly high today, even inching upward. Rison set still ablaze so I’m churning out coins but I’m shocked there are so few easy buying opportunities.

QuikSand

10-16-2021, 09:07 PM

Meanwhile, while I still plan to go about my business building a theme theme, I can’t help but wondering if these special bonus cards for the most feared program going to be game breakers, at least for challenges and other things where it’s you versus the CPU. I’m thinking about my Brown’s team right now, that I’m using for challenges and such things… Normally I get some bonuses out of having Browns players, they get chem benefits etc. but if I salted in six or eight quality players from the most feared program, and use the special card to give them all +10 speed… Even if they’re small in stature, I think they would be demons. I don’t know how overwhelming the strength and height bonuses would be if you use those instead, but speed kills. Even a wide receiver who is only the equivalent of 5 feet tall, if he can run 5 yards deep behind his cover man, he’s going to be open all the time. Guys with 99 speed At this point in the game well most players are still in the 80s or maybe 9091, will be unbelievably difficult to defense. I think this is going to be basically a cheat code, in the situation where they are usable. And maintaining a roster that does not feature all this garbage, is basically going to be House rules.

(Please forgive audio typos)

QuikSand

10-17-2021, 07:38 AM

The hot market for 90 Rison corrected, down from 300K+ to around 230K now. I’m semi stuck holding two copies and down to 1.66m in cash.

QuikSand

10-17-2021, 10:50 AM

So, while the market remains pretty high… There are relatively few buying opportunities that feel wise. I am still splashing around in the component parts of the Andre Rison set, I am occasionally looking at what is posted among the redux players rated 91, and I have been occasionally speculating with the 84 team builders players, buying around 20 and trying to sell around 30. None of this is very thrilling. An up market, and being cash Rich, is a boring combination.

QuikSand

10-17-2021, 10:52 AM

In the event that I get some Consol time today, I expect I will play around a little bit with my Browns theme team, add in a few most feared players and the card that makes them super fast, and see how that team plays in a few challenge games. I can get a 90 rated card that is unusable other than for gameplay, and right now I am leaning toward making tiny Derek Carr my starting quarterback for the Browns theme team… He will be even faster than Vince Young, and the height should not be as much of a problem for QB as it is for a receiver or other position.

QuikSand

10-17-2021, 08:04 PM

So, I finally decided to go ahead and start build my team intending to use these special strategy cards that come with the most feared set. Turns out the whole program is only good through Halloween, so it’s just a couple weeks of game breaking nonsense, then basically back to normal. Sounds fine, might as well take advantage.

Anyway, I decide that for my free 90 card, I will take QB Derek Carr. I think it would be fun to have him run around at super speed, albeit tiny.

Well, I don’t know what the story here is… But it doesn’t work. My other players from the set are all fast and tiny, but QB Carr is unaffected, with any of the three strategy cards. I cannot find anybody who has written about this. I am bummed.

QuikSand

10-18-2021, 07:58 AM

What stinks here is not just the cost of using a limited resource (a free 90 card) but also the uncertainty about what to do with my next one. If it were just "a free card only helpful if you play the guy" then a 90 DT would make a ton of sense as a stopgap. But if there's a "fun to play with the October buff-ups" element, then I might want to go with a CB/S/WR to really pile on the speed effect.

However, I cannot tell whether my glitch is because Carr is a QB, because he's from this NCAT offering, or something else. And my ideal response would be different based on answers to that question. Ugh.

QuikSand

10-18-2021, 12:50 PM

Tuesday's Team of the Week cards ... only CLE guy I could see as a longshot would be WR Donovan Peoples Jones, but they lost so unlikely.

I'd guess CeeDee Lamb as the top player of the week, defensive cards for WAS LB Cole Holcomb and LV DE Maxx Crosby, and presumably a couple others sprinkled in. Longshot case for Tua, whose best card is a 79 right now.

QuikSand

10-18-2021, 08:19 PM

After a couple of sales today, clicked over $2M in cash for the first time, peaking now at 2,292,953.

While prices have been high I knocked out a couple more Team Diamonds sets, but doing all 32 for Marino remains a long shot.

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 05:42 AM

My son’s team played the Most Feared challenges, and his version of Derek Carr did not get the Scary Speed buff… I’m assuming they just merged it for QBs, not unreasonable but annoying for a short time promo.

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 08:30 AM

So, my Browns theme team is at a sort of plateau now… I have nearly every cheap option fulfilled, and due to market conditions am sitting ready to decide where to invest in the more expensive stuff:

-WR Rison is powered up as far as he goes without his 90 card, and is my WR2. For about 225K I can buy/keep the 90 card, add the Route Technician skill, and he’s a high end possession receiver.

-WR Cribbs similar, his top card is cheaper at around 150K, with it he’d be a decent left side X deep threat and return man.

-RB Chubb is sitting at 89 or 90, and needs the top card to max out as a high end power RB, I’m watching the market but cheapest price is around 325K now.

-CB McCourty is positioned the same way, but the delta is huge with his final card…CB isn’t sexy but this feels important to get him to 92 and much much better for around 125K

-WR Austin will sit as the next big thing but it’s not clear he’d be a huge improvement over Rison, and I don’t really rely on WR3 a ton right now…expensive, likely onto the “down the road” list (or possibly a Rison alternative)

Status report:

Rison MAXED
Cribbs MAXED
Chubb (have bought card, flipped for profit, waiting until after MF promo)
CB McCourty MAXED
WR Austin (have completed the set 1x, flipped for profit, may use TOTW leverage today to buy the max cards and keep it)

DE Garrett - waiting for a Redux version of the former LTD card to emerge in the next few weeks, then will quickly move to max him out

DT ... no plan, I've been rotating in 3x DEs as my DL base in nickel, but really don't have a plan here staying within the theme... DT Allen could be the easy choice for my next free 90 MF player, despite him presumably not capitalizing on super speed very much

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 03:47 PM

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 03:52 PM

Right now, it is the 88 rated new players from the TOTW series that are cheap… I have been grabbing them under 50 K. I don’t think there’s going to be a huge market for them as a set cards, but I suppose some people will want the Jonathan Taylor, and that will require three copies of the CeeDee Lamb. Lamb is in more demand than the kicker, no shock.

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 04:35 PM

The blur when a new batch of cards is released is interesting, and sometimes profitable... right now it's the 88s that are anomalous... with some patience, you can buy an 88 card from this week's set for about 50K, while the cards from last week's set are going for 75-90K, last I checked. This week's sets seem unusually weak, but that's still 50K or less for 2,130 training, which is not a risky play at today's market rates.

I don't want to sink 1M coins into this, but I might do half that in hopes of flipping the same cards back into the market in a few days for 60-65K apiece. Or, possibly, wait until the market resets and the price for the 85 Osborn/Golden cards come back to earth, and I can build the weekly TOTW sets under market value and sell then for a profit.

QuikSand

10-19-2021, 08:14 PM

Whatever wasn’t working with QB Derek Carr has been remedied. Tiny Derek Carr is a blur and my offense is very tricky to stop. I had a moment of weakness and skipped the sure thing 90 MF player #2 in hopes of “rolling” a good player I could later sell… but I still may go and buy/build another high end MF player, this super speed thing is just too fun.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 09:43 AM

Update… I have 6x of the 88 CeeDee Lamb cards bought for around 48K each, will try to sell them today at 64K each. Seems fairly likely they’ll go at that price which is competitive with the market now.

It’s not an exciting time being a mostly market guy. Prices feel high, since I still remember aggressively looking for 90 rated cards for under 100K… now that “good price” is more like 115-120k. It’s not clear whether there was just a dip for a while that subsided, or what… but I’m not cycling nearly as much as I had been, for fear of being too card-rich and cash-poor for a coming realignment… the market feels like it’s due to drop, either from a pack odds change or some big splash new card(s) like a Bo Jackson or Randy Moss.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 09:46 AM

Tomorrow should be the second of three stages of this Most Feared series, presumably another batch of a few cards at multiple levels from 79 up to 92, with a couple use-only 90 cards as rewards for playing solo challenges. Hoping for some Cleveland help, as always, no Browns in the first group last week. But regardless, this should be yet another buying opportunity like with the TOTW… immediate glut then the market resets after a few days.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 10:13 AM

Looks like CLE strikes out again this week, no new cards for the zbriens theme team.

Dolphins get a couple nice ones- a LTD 93 Byron Jones today, and good cards for S Eric Rowe and LB Kyle van Noy in the Most Feared series. Eventually I’ll build up that team too, I expect.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 11:13 AM

The 90 Rison set looks like it’s finally (?) dead. The main card had previously been sewing for 280, 260 or so… Now there are only a handful of copies in the marketplace, but the buy price seems to be only around 200. Meanwhile, most of the component cards that had reliable spikes in prices… 70-something rated cards routinely going for 8K or 20 K… It seems that all of them have calmed down. I have bought up multiple copies of the cards that would be candidates to go back up to high prices, if this were to get lively again… But after a few days of doldrums, I am starting to get resigned that the show is over.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 11:17 AM

I just made a bit of a last ditch play, trying to squeeze a little more value out of this. One particular card, that I have seen routinely selling for 12 to 20 K… I noticed there were only three copies available in the marketplace, and I bought them all for a total of about 20 K. Relisted two of them at 15 and 18 K, respectively, hoping to revive the scarcity of this particular card.

The scary so he has always been artificial, but it was always driven by undo demand for the components of this particular site… Now that the 90 Rison is no longer a high end, elite card, that many theme teams absolutely must have… The whole thing is much less compelling. Who is out there looking to spend 250 or 280 on this card right now? You can buy a copy of 90 Corey Davis for 120 K, and he is basically the same card.

Anyway, I am invested enough in this… I still have two copies of the 90 Rison for sale, and I still own many of these component parts, so it is very much in my interest to get as much action in this site as I possibly can.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 03:50 PM

There are over 10x of the 90 Rison card for sale, including two in the 180s with no takers yet. Drying up.

I did sell a couple of those component cards I tried to monopolize for 15k, but tye market is back up to 12 copies and price down to 6-7k

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 07:08 PM

The Most Feared 93 card as “champion” of this second set will be… Randy Moss. Giddyup.

QuikSand

10-21-2021, 09:12 PM

90 Rison now selling in the 140s, show must be over with him

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 05:44 AM

The price for the 83 Dan Marino power up card has crept down below 300k… still out of my price range but not unimaginable that I could get it. Most likely, by the time I feel that I can afford to do it, the card will no longer be particularly special… Powering it all the way up to 93, or adding in the big card to take them to 96, right now makes that a complete stand out… Several points higher than anything else in the universe. In two months or so, it will be just another 95 or 96. Yawn.

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 05:53 AM

Pasted from online…these fun booster cards just got nerfed out of usefulness:

We wanted to let you know about changes to the Most Feared Strategy Items. With these changes, we will allow these Most Feared Strategy Items to be used in online games like H2H Seasons and Weekend League.

These changes are now live in-game.

Scary Speed Strategy Item will now be boosting the following attributes by 2 instead of 10:
+2 Speed
+2 Acceleration
+2 Agility
+2 COD (Change of Direction)
Monstrous Might Strategy Item:
Will now only increase the height of players by 2" instead of the previous 5"
Towering Terror Strategy Item:
To keep true to the name, Towering Terror will only increase the height of your players by 5" instead of the previous 20"
Note: No other attribute boosts on these Strategy Items will be changed.

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 05:54 AM

…apparently there was a workaround they couldn’t prevent and people were using them in online play, so they had to be muted severely. Sucks for the rest of us, like my son who was really into having super tall guys, etc.

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 09:27 AM

So, I’ve readjusted my Browns lineup…without the crazy +10 super speed benefit, these marginal MF players are no longer better than my usual starters. So I’m back to Chubb at RB1, and Cribbs at PR/KR, and my usual cast of defenders. Derek Carr will keep the QB job but is not a long term solution.

I’m now hoping for a good deal on the 91 Chubb card to max him out. Under 225k and it’s a buy for me, I suppose.

Marino? Meh.

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 01:09 PM

Looks like CLE strikes out again this week, no new cards for the Browns theme team.

Wrong... upon full reveal: a 90 LG Joel Bitonio, and a 87 WR Odell Beckham Jr.

So, stuff to do now with the theme team.

QuikSand

10-22-2021, 01:11 PM

...and the Randy Moss card, as always, tends toward 420K in the market. It's always this way.

QuikSand

10-23-2021, 06:22 AM

So this is the perpetual upward ratings drift, happening a bit quickly this year by all accounts.

When I started writing here, those 84 Team Builders were exactly that - important guys to anchor your roster around. Now an 84 guy is a candidate for upgrade. When I got two WRs for the Dolphins rated 88 and 89 I felt like they were SET… now it’s a 94 everyone’s chasing. That’s just how it goes.

QuikSand

10-23-2021, 06:25 AM

Wrong... upon full reveal: a 90 LG Joel Bitonio, and a 87 WR Odell Beckham Jr.

So, stuff to do now with the theme team.

Have both now.

QuikSand

10-23-2021, 11:18 AM

Today’s Legends cards (C Maurkice Pouncey and LB Broderick Thomas, meh) haven’t crashed the basket but I’m grabbing a few 89 cards around 60k which used to be fairly common, now feels like a huge bargain,

QuikSand

10-23-2021, 12:35 PM

The Art of Sniping

So, despite my discussions here about complex schemes for this and patience yielding that, the most productive thing to beat the market is just understanding sniping.

In this case, "sniping" is defined as perching as cards enter the marketplace, and when they arrive at an attractive price, you buy them immediately for the asking price. Simple as that. Sort of.

So, MUT Sniping 101 is basically watching a market you understand fairly well, and waiting for a card to pop up at a price where you believe you can sell it at a profit. No really serious skills needed here, just patience and luck.

Fine, got it. These cards typically go for 20,000 coins, and if I posted one right now at that price I could sell it for 20,000, meaning that after 10% tax I pull down 18,000. If that card is available for, say, 16,000 or less that's a sniping opportunity and should turn a short term profit, enough to compensate for the risk I'm taking.

Okay, what's next?

MUT Sniping 201 requires an understanding of the mechanics of the auction house, and understanding this is the single most important thing separating those who "get it" and those who don't.

Here's the big reveal: The auction house is only designed to show us 100 cards at a time. And if your set of filters you use to refine the search yields more than 100 cards, the first thing the auction house software (on both the console and in the app) will do is truncate your results to the 100 cards closest to their auction expiring.

This is not obvious, nor intuitive. But if you don't get it, you can't beat the market at a level higher than a little luck and a patience.

Filter by "Players rated 88 or 89" and "all offense" and then sort by "lowest buy now price" and intuitively you think you are seeing ALL such players, with the cheapest such guys at the top of the list. Tons of people do exactly this, and buy with confidence.

But right now, there are over 300 such players for sale. The game isn't showing you all of them, just the ones closest to expiring. Most players are put up for auction for one hour, so what you're seeing are just the guys who are within 18 minutes of their auction ending.

Why is this a problem? Remember above... the sniper is picking off bargains right as they become available. So, after 40 minutes of sitting around with no bids, what you're seeing with this bad filter is a list of offerings that the sharps have already declined. They are inherently bad deals. You are only looking at bad deals.

So... MUT Sniping 201 is... do enough filtering that you are always looking at 100 or fewer cards, in total. The whole universe of your filtered search. That way, you see them all. It can be painstaking... you might have to amend that earlier search of 88/89 offense to now include only 88/89 tight ends, or 88/89 offense from the Superstars set... but you need to see ALL the results, not just the closest-to-expiring. That's basically it, that's the 201 level key you need.

The way to tell? Sort your search by "Newest" and if the offerings are lively at all, they will start at "59 minutes remaining" meaning just put onto the block for 1hr. Now your filters are good, and you can sort by whatever you want, knowing you're getting a legit search. Snipe this way.

Now, what's next for MUT Sniping 301?

Pick your spots. What we want is a lively segment of the auction house (where a lot of cards are showing up) and ideally where there's a meaningful delta between the buy and sell prices prevailing. How can that persist? Remember the gets-it and doesn't-get-it groups. They will give us our edge.

When the Team of the Week lands each Tuesday, there are a wave of Madden players ripping packs and getting TOTW cards. And many of them are trying to complete sets to get the top-end cards from that week's set. In-game, that means there's a screen that lets you just click to do a pre-set search fo r the appropriate players -- very handy.

Except, when that market is hot, the search will return more than 100 players, and they only see the ones still around after some time. The bad deals. To complete a TOTW set, you might need 4x copies of any of the 4 85-rated cards from this week, you're on that page, and you do that search, it pulls up a big page of cards with the cheapest at, say, 28,000 gold. You buy 4 of them, and you're on your way to building the big stud of the week. Cool.

I, on the other hand, am also searching the 85-rated guys, but I'm doing so card by card... my searches are turning up only 80 cards each, not 300+. I'm seeing the ones that get listed for 15,000 and 18,000 and 20,000. You don't - they are gone before they get to your time-bound search. But what you are seeing is the same card that I just sniped for 18,000 right as it was placed for sale... and then I immediately turned around and re-listed it for 28,000. In 40 minutes, it shows up in your crappy filter looking like a good deal. You're happy, I'm rich.

It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen regularly... a market is artificially and temporarily hot and the ongoing list of sell prices is cacophonous but decidedly two-tiered... the exact same card over the last 5 minutes will have sale prices (from the model above) of 19, 20, 29, 19, 29, 29, 18, 29, 29, 20, 21, 29, 29... etc. The rich get richer, the poor get the picture.

That's the best setup you can get, generally limited only by the game's hard limit on only having 20 cards for sale at any time. So, with 1-2m in gold lying around, I'd rather be playing this game with the 90-rated cards for 100K - 124K than with the 85-rated cards for 20-something. But that's the play.

Anyway... that's the main reveal on how to make money in the Madden Auction House without quitting your day job. Learn a few tricks, and constantly look for ways to exploit them.

QuikSand

10-24-2021, 11:30 AM

So I got a new “strategy” card that powers up my OL blocking, and I’m looking to redouble my commitment to the run game. Will be searching for the 91 Chubb at a decent price, and tor the expensive Power Up for Raheem Mostert to upgrade my Hb2 role.

QuikSand

10-24-2021, 07:46 PM

No dice on finding the big Chubb card I wanted, but I did buy the Mostert power-up for 25K, and am trying to sell it at a profit. Failing that, I will keep it and power him up to 88 and make him HB2 ahead of Hunt for now. With the boost that comes from the last week of the Most Feared program, would be worth it if I get in any playing time.

QuikSand

10-24-2021, 07:48 PM

It's definitely a doldrums here... the MF program is good, but for my exact lane (committed theme team, no money spent) there's just not a lot for me to do right now.

The last 2 weeks, the TOTW release on Tuesday was a big dip in price for those cards, I might push in really heavy on the 88-rated guys from this week, just hoping to squeeze them for a 20% profit by next weekend. Especially if I don't expect to have much console/play time this week, that would be a solid money maker, I reckon. All those CeeDee lamb cards I bought at 48-50 last Tuesday are now selling reliably for 65K or more, and that's even without a super-compelling set to make.

QuikSand

10-24-2021, 08:39 PM

QuikSand

10-24-2021, 08:44 PM

…another pops up for 950k. Good to sit it out.

QuikSand

10-25-2021, 06:00 AM

So, D’Ernest Johnson had the best RB game of the week, I’d think he’d be a candidate for the TOTW set. Basically useless if he were just the 84/85 mid range guy… if he’s an 88 that would be useful for the theme team. I guess.

I’d think the 92 rated offensive star will be Burrow or Chase.

QuikSand

10-26-2021, 11:54 AM

So, D Johnson gets a nearly useless 82-rated card. Unless he somehow manages to improve on last week's effort to the point where he earns another, that will forever be relegated to the class of "set cards" that have essentially no value in themselves, but are only useful as components of building the set to get a good, valuable card - like the Cooper Kupp 93 card that is the king of the TOTW this week.

I get it, but having Johnson sneak in there to be one of the 89s would have been a nice little boon for the Browns theme team. That slot went to TE Pitts, which is hard to argue against, I understand.

QuikSand

10-26-2021, 02:38 PM

The TOTW tier that had been 88 are 89 this week (Kyle Pitts and a GB LB) and now I am comfy splashing in on anything 60K or below, that's down at tasty training price and i'm way comfy with that. Hoping to buy 10+

QuikSand

10-26-2021, 02:50 PM

...looks like the app has other ideas. There's a bot-catcher that triggers every so often (when i'm very active) and makes me solve a quick puzzle to continue... it now seems to be on repeat and I can't even access the market via the app. So it goes. I got one lousy copy of TE Pitts, and am now sitting it out, it seems.

QuikSand

10-26-2021, 03:04 PM

...looks like I'm officially booted off the app now. Nice.

QuikSand

10-28-2021, 09:53 AM

Back in the app. Topped 2.5m in cash yesterday, then spent down when I got a cheap 91 Chubb (finally) and maxed him out with power running skills. He should be tough to handle.

Now around 2m with precious little I really want to do. Third/last wave of Most Feared tomorrow, ought to be lively but the special bonuses wear off after this weekend and they all become just normal cards. Stage 2 included Moss, LT, and someone else top shelf I’m forgetting. Last stage… Bo? Maybe Night Train Lane?

QuikSand

10-28-2021, 10:03 AM

The Limited Edition (no longer available) 92 Justin Tucker released after his 66 yarder is out there for 960K. It’s a must have for top end players. Last few sales have been over 1.2k as are the other two copies available.

If I buy for 960K and sell for 1.2M, I’d clear 120k, that’s a lot to me. Ugh. Risk.

I’ve been watching this card… weird setup right now.

All recent purchases have been over 900k, nearly half over 1m.

Four cards for sale right now, at:
990
772
770
700

What gives? There’s no set to build this card, why is the price maybe coming down, with no buyers? The answer could be that there’s a new set of “redux” cards on their way before long, to include all the Limited Edition 92 cards. That would make sense. I’m sitting this out, for fear that this becomes a 400k card in a few days time.

QuikSand

10-28-2021, 11:22 AM

So, nobody else is buying the 700K Tucker, so I figure I'm not missing out on a great deal there.

QuikSand

10-28-2021, 11:31 AM

Anyway, what is next for my Browns theme team?

Honestly, the only on-brand upgrades out there are:

-for roughly 300K, to get both Miles Austin cards, power him up to 93, and make him my WR2 alongside deep threat Cribbs and slot WR Rison

-for roughly 1.1m, get the LTD 92 card for DE Miles Garrett and max him out with extra training

Both of these are eventual things to do, but I expect to wait on Garrett until that LTD card has a Redux follow-up for a fraction of the price... and I'm not really moved that Austin will be a ton better than Rison already is.

So, at the moment, here are the non-Browns cards I am still using (as the Most Feared program subsides):

90 QB Derek Carr (MF)
90 SS Eric Rowe (MF) playing LB in nickel setup
88 K Jaguars guy (just a ton better than my 70-something Parkey)
87 Raheem Mostert (MF)
87 TE Cole Kmet (MF)
...and I think I technically have one non-chem effect among my safety guys

So... once the MF program ends, it will basically be all about the QB position. The team would surely be better overall if I just loaded up with a 92-rated DT... but I rather like having to patch over with an out-of-position DE or whatever as I'm not a top-end guy anyway.

We'll see where we are in a month. It's just more interesting having something I really want. The Dan Marino cards are going for maybe 250K Power Up and 800K Full 95 Card... I suppose I could be thinking about that, too.