FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants

[QuikSand]

Okay, this is a board full of would-be GMs and scouts and cap managers... let's put our heads together and talk through what we'd do if we had our puppet candidate win out to become the new Giants GM.

We are, I believe, blessed with two apparently rather early first round draft picks... so that is enough to feel like this is an appropriate vertex to feel like we're plotting the course for the franchise and the roster.

I will post some useful links, starting with this one:

New York Giants 2021 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap/)

I have access to the PFF player-by-player grades, and can either post a screenshot or something equivalent to help make that info useful to us, as well.

[QuikSand]

For the moment, let's focus on player cuts/trades, free agent pursuits, and related roster moves. And we will assume that the word out in the real world -- that the current Head Coach and QB1 will return intact for opening day next year. Doesn't preclude us from doing something at the QB position, but let's try to pre-emptively wipe out stuff like "hire this guy as coach who runs this totally new system and then we need new players to fit it."

[QuikSand]

Okay, so as a ground rule, I'm going to rely on this source for prospective contract values:

2022 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Top 75 players expected to enter free agency | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF (https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-free-agent-rankings-free-agency)

As we know there are multiple ways of pursuing a free agent -- hard-charging early offer designed to lock the guy up quickly, and the read-the-room move to typically watch a group of players, see how the market settles, and make a move once you have an equilibrium.

Let's say that:

AGGRESSIVE - we'll almost surely get the player we seek, but we will have to pay 20% more than the $/yr indicated in the source above

COMPETITIVE - we should have roughly a 50/50 chance to get the player we want, at the $/yr indicated

TACTICAL - we will bide our time, and try to get a bargain, at 20% less than the $/yr indicated and on a shorter contract, 2yrs at most


So, for example, if we decide that what the team needs is a receiver, we can say we want to go after Allen Robinson... but the amount we plug in as a cap hit would vary materially along with the likelihood of landing him on our roster.

[QuikSand]

Projected draft order (and generally cool site): Tankathon | 2022 NFL Draft Order (https://www.tankathon.com/nfl)

[SirFozzie]

First quick thoughts: I like what the mock draft is offering up, in 2 OL. (they need it, both for the running game and to keep Jones upright)

I'd like to get rid of Golladay if possible (Good luck on that, 31 catches for 440 yards, and it's not like injuries have held him back too much, he's started 11 games so far this year)

If we can find a trading partner post June 1:

2022 Dead Cap: $3,400,000
2023 Dead Cap: $10,200,000
2022 Cap Savings: $17,750,000

Possible replacement: Chris Godwin, Allen Robinson

They definitely need a #1 receiver, and I don't think Golladay NOR Sterling Shepard are close to it.

[QuikSand]

I feel like the combination of Shepard and Kadarius Toney should be enough talent to build around, for the short term. I doubt there's a taker for Golladay, as you intimate, so I suppose he's a HOLD and hope he returns to form as a solid contested-catch deep threat to complement those two.

Agreed that OL is a continuing priority, and sinking another early draft pick there makes sense to me. Their second pick could be for one of the apparently stellar interior OL prospects (or I suppose a tackle who would feel comfortable playing the right side)...and that could free up the earlier pick for an edge or whatever they judge as BPA (maybe that safety).

[Butter]

Isn't the real question whether or not Barkley is being held back by the offensive line, or if he's actually already showing signs of decline? That's what I'd be really worried about for them, and I'm not sure that question gets answered until you actually address the O-Line and perhaps scheme better for him overall. But he could just be in Operation Shutdown knowing that this season is basically a waste at this point.

[sabotai]

Adrian Peterson ruined the expectations for coming back from an ACL injury. It's still a 2 year injury for most players, 1 to get to 80%, another to get back to 100%. I think Barkley's biggest issue is that along with the ACL that had him out most of last year (Week 2) and missing 4 weeks this year with an ankle injury, he just hasn't played much football over the last 2 years. He's dancing way too much behind the line, always looking to turn every run into a homerun. He's always done that to an extent, but he's done it far more this year. He needs the reps to just get his field vision back and to build up his patience.

As for the draft picks, at least one needs to be used on an OL. Considering this draft is not a good QB class and the Giants need a QB, they should try to trade down with one of their picks and pick up at least a 2023 1st. And then take BPA with that mid-round pick.

If they can't find a trade partner and have 2 top 10 picks, then spend on both on OL or OL and EDGE. Azeez Ojulari is developing nicely, but Carter and Ximenes are not. Get a second EDGE to compliment Ojulari and with Leonard Williams inside, then Giants might get a really good pass rush going again.

[sabotai]

Possible Cuts/Trades/Contract Restructures to free up cap space

Leonard Williams

Having said what I just did about the Pass Rush, it's hard to see how the Giants can keep Leonard Williams on a team if we can't restructure his deal. He can't be cut. Cutting him pre 6/1 will add more dead cap and cost $8m more, and cutting him post 6/1 saves exactly $0. But, he can be traded. A pre-6/1 trade frees up $10m and post-6/1 frees up $19m.

Williams is a great player, but he's getting elite pass rusher money. He either needs to get traded and get a new deal freeing up some cap space


James Bradbury

He's a great corner. He's aggressive and gets it wrong sometimes. I also think he gets blamed a lot for big plays when he was supposed to get help over the top and didn't get it. Still, cutting or trading him will free up $12m-$13m. That's money the Giants can use on an OL in free agency and he's going into the last year of his contract. I'd prefer to extend him and bring his cap hit down significantly for 2022. Otherwise might as well cut or trade him. Keeping him for 1 more year only to leave in FA next year doesn't help us long term.

Kyle Rudolph

He's shot. Cutting/Trading him frees up $5 million.

Logan Ryan

I like his leadership, but his on field performance dropped a lot this year. But cutting him saves just $750k. He could be traded, freeing up $9.25m

Blake Martinez

He's going into the final year and will count $14m against the cap. Cutting or trading him frees up $8.5m. I want him on the team. He's by far the best Giants LB (at least was in 2020) and just entering his prime (unless the ACL injury ruined him). Extend him and bring next year's cap hit way down. But just like with Bradbury, no point keeping him for just 1 more year if a restructure can't be done.

Saquon Barkley

Releasing him save nothing. Trading him frees up $7.2m.

Kenny Golladay

As Fozzie said, finding a trade partner Post 6/1 would be ideal. Not sure what I said about him last year when the Giants signed him, but I do not like what I see. It's not just the results, he looks like a terrible route runner. Still, the Giants could cut him Post 6/1. It would save $7.75m on the cap and throw $10.2m onto the 2023 dead cap. But they can save cap space by cutting their losses with him.

And that's basically it. Unless I missed one, those are the big ticket items for freeing up cap space.

[sabotai]

Well, there's also Sterling Shepard. Cutting/Trading post 6/1 saves $8.5m on the cap (before it's $4.5m) but he's clearly the Giants best receiver, and that's including Golladay. If we want to go full Empty Cupboard with this, then yeah I guess move from him, otherwise I say keep him.

[QuikSand]

Okay, I am sold on Bradberry (too inconsistent and expensive), Martinez (same), and Rudolph (dust) being on the cut-when-it's-wisest list, to free up cap space, even at some cost in space next year in Bradberry's case especially.

[QuikSand]

Evan Engram... continued to be physically tantalizing, but I presume we won't put up any resistance to him walking away. If Rudolph is also gone, that makes the TE position (on a weak-line team as is0 another weakness. Seems like that would be a position for a reasonable free agent and then a mid-tier draft pick, right?

Like... Anthony Firkser, or Ricky Seals-Jones... that's the level I'm thinking here for the veteran. Spend maybe 2m at the TE1 position.

[RainMaker]

I think with picks, you take the best available. This is a team that is years away from competing and has so many bad contracts they need to wait out.

I would hang on to Barkley because I think his trade value is really low at this point. Maybe a guy you move during next season when a team loses their top back. Most of the other names are untradeable.

Didn't realize how bad the Giants situation is. Thought the Bears were in a tough spot but at least they have cap space and some young players who are good.

[bhlloy]

I liked the idea of Schultz at TE when I was taking a look at this last night. In general I think with a team that is a few years away we should be prioritizing young FA who could still have room to significantly outperform their deals.

[RainMaker]

I liked the idea of Schultz at TE when I was taking a look at this last night. In general I think with a team that is a few years away we should be prioritizing young FA who could still have room to significantly outperform their deals.

If they don't like any QB in the draft, someone like Tyler Huntley would be interesting. Only 23 years old with some upside. Worst case scenario is he becomes a slightly overpaid backup.

[QuikSand]

Huntley will be an Exclusive Rights FA next offseason, and it's hard to imagine the Ravens letting him get away, as he's as good a fit as they could possibly find to back up Lamar. I don't know what circumstances would have to be involved for him to depart, but I think it's safe that he will be QB2 in Baltimore next year on materially better terms than his current deal.

[albionmoonlight]

I know we are sticking with QB1 here in part to keep things manageable. But I think that it actually makes sense considering all the other holes to fill.

I've seen a couple of people say that out of the universe of could-be-available QBs this offseason (Trubisky, Jones, Winston, Dalton, etc.), Jones is probably the best option. If the Giants decide to go in another direction, there will be interest in Jones from several teams.

[albionmoonlight]

Saquon Barkley

Releasing him save nothing. Trading him frees up $7.2m.


I'd put out some feelers and hope that one GM/Owner is tantalized by making a splash by trading for the big name.

[QuikSand]

Do we take a 4th round pick, conditional to a 3rd with performance, from someone for Barkley? Or are we holding firm that we want a difference-maker draft pick, like a 2nd or better?

[jbergey22]

I think we need to decide on what type of team we want. The Giants have no identity. Are they a running team? No. Are they are passing team? No. Do they get to the QB? No

If we are going to rebuild this team lets find something to be good at. I think the strength of this team could be a high powered run attack if we can build the defense up to make stops. I dont see Jones as the type that can win a bunch of shootouts ever. Jones as a runner with Barkley could be a threat however.

[albionmoonlight]

Do we take a 4th round pick, conditional to a 3rd with performance, from someone for Barkley? Or are we holding firm that we want a difference-maker draft pick, like a 2nd or better?

I'd take a 4th/3rd to get that cap space.

[jbergey22]

I'd take a 4th/3rd to get that cap space.

Why? And what would we get with that cap space?

Barkley could be a Kamara type in the "right offense". What would you be asking for Kamara?

That is what I am getting at? We would need to commit to a style. Engram would work in a passing offense(which is a poor idea with Jones as your QB) however in a run based offense you would probably move on from Engram. Dumb the offense down and Jones could be effective IMO.

The Giants are just getting players lately without a plan. We dont want to copy that strategy;)

[bhlloy]

When Devontae Booker looks as effective (or more effective) of a runner, then yeah trading him is on the table for cap space. And maybe you do need 2 years to fully get back from an ACL injury, but a lot of guys seem to do it in a year now, in college and in the pros. I think it’s a genuine concern that he’s not an elite back anymore.

[jbergey22]

When Devontae Booker looks as effective (or more effective) of a runner, then yeah trading him is on the table for cap space. And maybe you do need 2 years to fully get back from an ACL injury, but a lot of guys seem to do it in a year now, in college and in the pros. I think it’s a genuine concern that he’s not an elite back anymore.

2018: 67.4% Zone
2019: 55.76% Zone
2020: 47.81% Zone

According to Pro Football Focus, 42% of Barkley's carries have come out the middle. That is precisely how he should not be used. New York's interior offensive line, Will Hernandez, Matt Skura, and Billy Price, all rate out as below-average run-blockers. For perspective, only 26.4% and 31.8% of his carries came up the middle in 2019 and 2020, respectively. It's time for him to be used on the edge again. If not, this offense has little chance of any explosiveness, and Barkley's rushing numbers will continue to suffer.

https://www.rotoballer.com/deep-dive-why-is-saquon-barkley-struggling/973158

I'm betting on coaching.

[Butter]

Billy Price was so bad he lost his starting job on last year's Bengals team that had an all-time bad offensive line. The Giants need to go all in on both lines, build from the inside out.

[Pyser]

for sure cuts:
p dixon
te rudolph
wr shephard
wr slayton

cut if you can't restructure:
lb martinez
cb bradberry

let it play out and deal with it next year:
qb jones
rb barkley
wr golladay
cb jackson

[bhlloy]

2018: 67.4% Zone
2019: 55.76% Zone
2020: 47.81% Zone

According to Pro Football Focus, 42% of Barkley's carries have come out the middle. That is precisely how he should not be used. New York's interior offensive line, Will Hernandez, Matt Skura, and Billy Price, all rate out as below-average run-blockers. For perspective, only 26.4% and 31.8% of his carries came up the middle in 2019 and 2020, respectively. It's time for him to be used on the edge again. If not, this offense has little chance of any explosiveness, and Barkley's rushing numbers will continue to suffer.

Deep Dive: Why is Saquon Barkley Struggling? | Fantasy News (https://www.rotoballer.com/deep-dive-why-is-saquon-barkley-struggling/973158)

I'm betting on coaching.

None of that explains why Booker has a higher yards per touch, a higher YPC and a better catch percentage in the exact same offense. When you are being outperformed by a journeyman, it’s safe to say there are questions whether you are being used suboptimally or not.

[sabotai]

Okay, I am sold on Bradberry (too inconsistent and expensive), Martinez (same), and Rudolph (dust) being on the cut-when-it's-wisest list, to free up cap space, even at some cost in space next year in Bradberry's case especially.

Those moves, plus getting rid of some 3rd and 4th year players making high 6 figures and replacing them with UDFAs, will probably get you about $35m in cap space.

It'd say that's good for going after TE Schultz and a few of the lower ranked OL. Given the Giants need for talent in 4 of the 5 OL spots, I think going after 2 Guards in the $8m a year area is better than one Tackle that would cost $16m.

Fingers crossed that Nick Gates can come back from his broken leg. He's a quality C/G. If the Giants can get 2 decent Guards and move a fully recovered Gates back to Center, the line is looking pretty good. That would leave RT as a desperate need.

[stevew]

QB1-there's that lever on Jones' deal where he gets his 5th year option guaranteed before this season. Running him back is an expensive 2 year proposition cause I can't see how you would decline his 2023 option and then still go into 2022 with him as the #1.

That Galloday is like legit one of the worst deals I've ever seen.


I've got these moves which opens 49million up and we're rolling over a lot of this space

Released Blake Martinez
(Saved: $8,525,000)
Released Logan Ryan
(Saved: $750,000)
Released Kyle Rudolph
(Saved: $5,000,000)
Restructured Graham Gano
(Saved: $1,315,000)
Restructured Leonard Williams
(Saved: $8,982,500)
Released James Bradberry
(Saved: $12,136,111)
Restructured Kenny Golladay
(Saved: $7,976,667)
Released Riley Dixon
(Saved: $3,250,000)
Released Devontae Booker
(Saved: $2,000,000)

What about DeShaun Watson? Can we make that happen or is he just too toxic? We have the draft capital to do it now.

[bhlloy]

I think Watson falls outside of the bounds of this scenario - where we’ve been explicitly told that Jones is the #1 QB next season no matter what. And I don’t think the Giants are just a QB away and want to be giving up that much capital, especially for one with as much baggage who could be a court discovery away from never playing again.

With that being said, I’d firmly be in favor of a strong QB2 who can push Jones and maybe be 1B if he doesn’t perform better. I still think Mariota is a strong candidate to be the next Tannehill in the right environment, so maybe that’s the play.

[QuikSand]

A re-do of the deals with Williams and Golladay really emphasizes this year, and binds us to them for out-years. Ideal? What are we doing with all this one-year money?

Brandon Scherff is out there, possibly. Expensive for an interior OL but perhaps a difference maker there. Is that better than using our early 2nd on a guard?

[bhlloy]

Agreed, I think the only reason to restructure is if you are going big this year in FA. Seems like that is what got the Giants in this mess in the first place.

[stevew]

A re-do of the deals with Williams and Golladay really emphasizes this year, and binds us to them for out-years. Ideal? What are we doing with all this one-year money?

Brandon Scherff is out there, possibly. Expensive for an interior OL but perhaps a difference maker there. Is that better than using our early 2nd on a guard?

Agree on Mariotta from above. Seems tire kick worthy. So would Fitzmagic perhaps.

Re: Re-do Just cause we cap out those guys doesn’t mean we have to spend the money they free up. We can always just roll it over into next years cap.

[stevew]

Seems like free agent corners and wide receivers are the worst types of contracts imaginable.

That being said James Washington is a FA WR I’d look into. I don’t think he was ever used properly in Pit

[SirFozzie]

Fire the whole coaching staff.

[QuikSand]

Re: Re-do Just cause we cap out those guys doesn’t mean we have to spend the money they free up. We can always just roll it over into next years cap.

Cap-outs increase both the cap hit and the guaranteed share of future years in the contracts affected... so if we cap out someone like Golladay, that makes it a good deal harder to release or realign him down the road if we feel his production hasn't met expectations (gaa, ya think?).

Not sold on the roll-it-over theory.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Fire the whole coaching staff.

Saw that first half "highlight" did ya? ;)

After that, this exercise seems rather futile, the stipulation of "keeping HC" means there probably isn't really any hope for improvement.

[stevew]

Read somewhere the giants were unable to promote 53 to the pre game active roster for this game because they have didn’t have enough cap space. (Obviously only 46 can play)

[SirFozzie]

Saw that first half "highlight" did ya? ;)

After that, this exercise seems rather futile, the stipulation of "keeping HC" means there probably isn't really any hope for improvement.

The QB sneak on 3rd and 10?

They shouldn't have made it to halftime.

[bhlloy]

And that's why it made no sense to come out and say that Judge and Jones were coming back next season (not that Jones had anything to do with today's debacle, but Judge shouldn't make it to tomorrow morning)

[QuikSand]

Well, I adopted those tenets for our exercise here for two reasons:

-it is where the franchise is, so that keeps us a bit moored to reality; and

-it keeps us from wild front office and/or revolutionary tangents "we're going to hire Joe Brady as our HC and we will install this offense, so we need guys who fit it, etc"

[QuikSand]

How about we agree that we will pursue G Laken Tomlinson for $9m/yr, to help solidify the interior line? He charts out as the second-best guy in a decent market, that would be a reasonable show of force, I think. The relative equivalent of the Ravens' deal with Zeitler last offseason.

[SirFozzie]

So, we can't fire the Coach under these rules. Can we fire the Owner who's keeping the coach, then fire the coach?

[Josina Anderson] I'm told #Giants HC Joe Judge "is staying," per league source. : nfl (https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/s0p4an/josina_anderson_im_told_giants_hc_joe_judge_is/)

[stevew]

Out of context that sneak looked stupid, but weren't they basically conceding that they were going to punt and wanted to give their punter a bit more room? and wasn't the previous play also a sneak. Not defending them but it seems more plausible.

[QuikSand]

OK, so we get to hire a coach too, I guess.

[albionmoonlight]

Considering the dysfunction that surrounded this team, I'd be looking for a grown-up-in-the-room coach. A guy with credibility. An anti-clown-show guy, if you will.

Of course, you always want that, but I'm saying I'd look for that over emphasizing getting the hottest young playcaller type.

Dan Quinn comes to mind.

[sabotai]

Put Brian Flores on the shortlist of interviewees.

[albionmoonlight]

Put Brian Flores on the shortlist of interviewees.

Concur.

[albionmoonlight]

Doug Pederson and Jim Caldwell also come to mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think I'd go defensive HC unless you have like THE perfect OC in mind.

[QuikSand]

Would we push ownership to spend to pursue one of these veteran "manager" coaches plus Joe Brady as OC?

[JPhillips]

Flores is a NY guy and I think the Giants will be looking for a culture fit in NY after the past few failures. Flores would be good with the fan base, IMO.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, Flores would be a no brainer IMO. The only question is whether he wants the Giants with the other jobs available.

I think with a new coach it’s also more realistic to reconsider the statement that Jones is the QB1 this year. It would be logical to suggest the hottest coaches and GMs on the market might balk at being told that by the owner.

[albionmoonlight]

Would we push ownership to spend to pursue one of these veteran "manager" coaches plus Joe Brady as OC?

Is Joe Brady good, or did Joe Brady call plays for Joe Burrow throwing to Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase against college defenders, which made him seem good?

[QuikSand]

Is Joe Brady good, or did Joe Brady call plays for Joe Burrow throwing to Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase against college defenders, which made him seem good?

the thread is supposed to be fun, right?

don't hold back GIVE US THE HOT TAEK

[Lathum]

I would love to see Flores but it is the Giants so they wont. They will probably try and lure Herm Edwards back to the NFL

[sabotai]

My one big issue with Herm Edwards or Jim Calwell is their age. I don't think the Giants need to go after a young, hot OC or DC, but with Caldwell being 66 and Edwards 67, even if they turned out to a great head coach for the Giants, I don't want them to have to look for another new HC in a few years because they decide to retire.

[fortheglory]

In regards to this thread title...Newsflash....there is only ONE Giants from New York. No longer two...so if you were to say the New York Giants, I am reasonably sure everyone would automatically realize you are referring to NFL Football.

resume discussion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In regards to this thread title...Newsflash....there is only ONE Giants from New York. No longer two...so if you were to say the New York Giants, I am reasonably sure everyone would automatically realize you are referring to NFL Football.

resume discussion.


While it may be unneccessary in 2021, it is not incorrect

While the baseball team moved to San Francisco after the 1957 season, the football team continues to use "New York Football Giants, Inc." as its legal corporate name

[JPhillips]

Adding another point. The Giants believe Daniel Jones will be cleared to play at some point, but others in the NFL are worried his neck injury is career-ending. What do they do about a QB if they aren't sure of his status before the draft?

[Lathum]

Adding another point. The Giants believe Daniel Jones will be cleared to play at some point, but others in the NFL are worried his neck injury is career-ending. What do they do about a QB if they aren't sure of his status before the draft?

Trade for Tua, he is can't miss.

[stevew]

Rudolph and Booker both got cut and they’re looking to trade BARKLEY just to update this.

[QuikSand]

Adding another point. The Giants believe Daniel Jones will be cleared to play at some point, but others in the NFL are worried his neck injury is career-ending. What do they do about a QB if they aren't sure of his status before the draft?

Is this a roster at the state where we really want to prioritize getting some C+ caliber backup? Does it make sense to go and sign, say, Nick Foles here? I'd say no. I don't love trotting out Glennon, but surely there's some affordable not-a-disaster option out there.

I don't think I want to try to land "the answer" in this draft, that feels like a reach. If Jones is available, we try to learn whether he's it. If he's unavailable, the season is basically lost and "it" is increasingly likely to be what we can get with pick 1.2 next year or whatever we land naturally.

[QuikSand]

Rudolph and Booker both got cut and they’re looking to trade Bradley just to update this.

Trade Bradberry, presumably? Someone might be open to taking him on a $10m deal for this year I'd think. I think we'd take nearly any pick for him, right?

[Lathum]

They are apparently shopping Barkley...

[QuikSand]

In regards to this thread title...Newsflash....there is only ONE Giants from New York. No longer two...so if you were to say the New York Giants, I am reasonably sure everyone would automatically realize you are referring to NFL Football.

resume discussion.

i missed this originally... it's kinda a thing, sorry if you missed the memo

[stevew]

I meant Barkley, I dunno how I booted that spelling so poorly

[QuikSand]

Not really a fit for this "run the NYFG" thread... but I wonder who might spin the wheel on Barkley at this point? Miami?

[JPhillips]

Is this a roster at the state where we really want to prioritize getting some C+ caliber backup? Does it make sense to go and sign, say, Nick Foles here? I'd say no. I don't love trotting out Glennon, but surely there's some affordable not-a-disaster option out there.

I don't think I want to try to land "the answer" in this draft, that feels like a reach. If Jones is available, we try to learn whether he's it. If he's unavailable, the season is basically lost and "it" is increasingly likely to be what we can get with pick 1.2 next year or whatever we land naturally.

I expect one of Pickett, Willis, or Corral will be a playoff QB. Should the Giants work one of their two 1st rounders into a trade down and pick of one of the QBs? If the problem is that we don't trust the Giants to get that right, how will that calculus change next year?

Saying we're starting Glennon is going to get an incredibly bad reaction in NY and the Maras care a lot about fan reaction.

[bhlloy]

I think if you can pick up an extra second or third and move down and still get Corral or Willis that’s something I’d be willing to do. Having the two picks this year makes that worth a shot I think.

I do believe in Corral more than most though, and Willis feels like he has the talent to be worth the risk.

[QuikSand]

Saying we're starting Glennon is going to get an incredibly bad reaction in NY and the Maras care a lot about fan reaction.

Sorry if I was unclear. I want Glennon gone, of course.

My preference at QB is this this year is "prove it / fuck it" in essence, depending on Jones' health. If he's available, prove you're the guy. If he's not, don't bother with a "good enough" backup, just toss out a rookie or dirt cheap Plan B, no not Glennon, but also not a $5m deal with Andy Dalton or Nick Foles or whomever. I want one of those dudes who knocked around in the pretend pro leagues, get one of those guys... or like a 5th round rookie.

I won't really rebel against a trade-down to get a QB, but I'm fearful that QBs could be on the ascension now, especially Willis. If we need to use pick 7 or 10 to get Willis, I don't love the value proposition much, and would rather take the bird in the hand and get two young guys we feel would reliably fill holes.

[JPhillips]

Part of the problem as I see it is that the Giants have enough talent to win 6-8 games if they have a somewhat competent and I think the new staff gets them closer to that than Judge could.

Here are the opponents for next year:

Dallas Cowboys
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Football Team
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Carolina Panthers
Houston Texans
Indianapolis Colts
Baltimore Ravens

AWAY
Dallas Cowboys
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Football Team
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tennessee Titans
Seattle Seahawks

Six wins seems very achievable and then they are out of the running if Stroud and Young continue to play like the top picks. Everything, IMO, comes down to getting another shot at a franchise QB. If they pass this year, they need to be awful so that they can get one next year, but doing that alienates the fan base and the Maras are already worried about that.

[CrimsonFox]

In stratomatic?

[Ajaxab]

The bots' sense of humor just gets better and better.

[stevew]

What about rolling the dice on a Jones for Mayfield trade? Tyrod Taylor was a good backup signing. I don’t like any of the QBs this year, so we can draft linemen/etc. if the Mayfield thing blows up, we will pick high in 2023. Mayfield seems like the kind of guy that should rise* to the occasion in New York.

[JPhillips]

I don't know if you get anything better from Mayfield than you get from Taylor and Taylor has the benefit of having played well for Daboll in Buffalo. I think it's going to be an open competition in camp, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Taylor start the year as QB.

[QuikSand]

What about rolling the dice on a Jones for Mayfield trade? Tyrod Taylor was a good backup signing. I don’t like any of the QBs this year, so we can draft linemen/etc. if the Mayfield thing blows up, we will pick high in 2023. Mayfield seems like the kind of guy that should ride to the occasion in New York.

I don't hate it, to be honest.

[bhlloy]

I dunno. Feels like Mayfield puts the Giants solidly in the mushy middle. Good enough to start and win 7-9 games but nowhere close to making you SB contenders. In todays NFL it feels like that’s the absolute worst place you can be.

[QuikSand]

Right, of course what we think of Mayfield right now does that, agreed. What you're trading for here is a ticket that he shows up this year, goes Tannehill, and becomes a guy you can tag or re-sign. He has had two of four seasons that show a lot more promise than your Darnolds or Joneses of the world. If he suffered from injury last year and that hid his actual capacity, he could be a meaningful above average asset.

So, no, this isn't trade for Baker and commit your future. It's trade for Baker and see what he has this year, admittedly as you're doing the same thing with Jones. Tricky, but not out of the question for the most important role in professional sports, and one that our franchise lacks direction on.

[QuikSand]

...and obviously the Browns have no interest in Jones, but I'd assume that the NYG early 3rd rounder would get us Baker and his 1y, $19m-or-so contract.

[Toddzilla]

Right, of course what we think of Mayfield right now does that, agreed. What you're trading for here is a ticket that he shows up this year, goes Tannehill, and becomes a guy you can tag or re-sign. He has had two of four seasons that show a lot more promise than your Darnolds or Joneses of the world. If he suffered from injury last year and that hid his actual capacity, he could be a meaningful above average asset.

So, no, this isn't trade for Baker and commit your future. It's trade for Baker and see what he has this year, admittedly as you're doing the same thing with Jones. Tricky, but not out of the question for the most important role in professional sports, and one that our franchise lacks direction on.It's like signing a pitcher a year off of TJ surgery. You bring him in for a small commitment and then you can either flip him for a pick, keep him if he bounces back, or cut him.

[stevew]

I think Mayfield could likely be had for a 5-7th. Especially if you’re eating all of that deal. If you give up a 3rd they better be eating 10m+ of it.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not a Mayfield guy. But I like the move as a look-see.

Bringing him in for what is basically a one-year tryout? Smart.

Bringing him in and then committing a lot of guaranteed money to him so you are tied to him for at least three years? Dumb.

As others have noted, the draft this year stinks for QBs. Mayfield does give you the most upside of the options out there. I'd rather roll the dice on that than just an old dude stopgap.

[bhlloy]

I can see the logic there but still, where’s the line where he does get resigned or tagged? Top 20 QB? Top 15? I think we’ve seen enough of him to say he’s not and won’t be a top 5-10 guy hence my original comment.

I still think there’s a conversation to be had about whether this is a blow it all up and take a shot at a QB in what could be a strong draft next year. This just isn’t an exciting “could be a winner in a few years” roster, and I don’t think Baker is changing that. Maybe I’m underrating the potential he has left, I just don’t see it.

[albionmoonlight]

I can see the logic there but still, where’s the line where he does get resigned or tagged? Top 20 QB? Top 15? I think we’ve seen enough of him to say he’s not and won’t be a top 5-10 guy hence my original comment.

I still think there’s a conversation to be had about whether this is a blow it all up and take a shot at a QB in what could be a strong draft next year. This just isn’t an exciting “could be a winner in a few years” roster, and I don’t think Baker is changing that. Maybe I’m underrating the potential he has left, I just don’t see it.

I don't like him either. But I'm trying to open my mind to "What if I'm wrong about that?" And if there is a low enough risk play for him, I think it makes sense. But if his agent demands long term money, then we walk away no question.

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Giants Open To Trading One Of Their Two First-Round Picks <a href="https://t.co/qej6rqrwFB">https://t.co/qej6rqrwFB</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Giants?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Giants</a> <a href="https://t.co/SbXVMD4DaS">pic.twitter.com/SbXVMD4DaS</a></p>&mdash; NFLTradeRumors.co (@nfltrade_rumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfltrade_rumors/status/1507376762946207746?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the way.

[QuikSand]

Since mocking for the Dolphins got boring AF, here's a mock for our G-men:

https://snipboard.io/idPfnA.jpg

The later picks don't reflect a lot of insight, beyond DT Garrett, whom I know to be a highly regarded recruit who under-delivered at a top tier program despite some occasionally excellent play - not a terrible stab in the dark with a late-ish pick for someone, I think.

Getting two potential blue chippers along the OL would be boss. I had been taking G Johnson for Miami at pick 1.29 fairly often (they have some BC coaching ties).

[albionmoonlight]

Building the lines early in the draft is never a bad strategy. I remember the Sean Payton quote from when the Cowboys had that amazing line: "Everyone wants the Cowboys offensive line. No one wants to draft the Cowboys offensive line." Those picks will also work whether Jones is the answer or not.

I also like TE Ruckert. The Saints need a TE badly, so I have been looking at the crop available. He's got the athletic profile to be a good one. With the right coaching, he could be an NFL starter--not bad for a third round pick.

[QuikSand]

Another mock from a different site... no trades here, either (some sites require you pay to unlock all the toys)... here I took my CB1 first because there were two solid OT there at pick 5...

https://snipboard.io/LZTmx4.jpg

RB Breece is a darling among insiders to be the first RB off the board this year, he's a receiving-friendly back who may step into the Barkley role this team has been working around for some time. I think he's a great modern NFL RB prospect.

C Fortner is a favorite mid-round pick of mine for OL-needy teams. I don't think he lasts past pick 100 or so, but he's not a random dart here for me.

[bhlloy]

I can't get behind spending another early pick on a RB. Just way too many other holes on this roster. A P that high feels like a luxury too. Much prefer the first one which put a bit more emphasis on the lines. I agree Haskell Garrett is a great pick if available that late.

[QuikSand]

i cant help myself with that punter, if i'm throwing darts with a mock draft, i just cant help but take him he seems like a freak

as for the RB, i am usually strong enough to resist and defer until the afterthought rounds... occasionally get weak with Breece or Spiller here

[bhlloy]

Here's where I ended up:

https://snipboard.io/s1hG0k.jpg

A couple of thoughts... firstly it's pretty bare once you hit the third and fourth. I went with Sanders just for need but didn't feel that great about it, and then went McBride and wished I'd waited as guys like Dulcich and Otton were still on the board 30-50 picks later. In a real life scenario, if those were my choices I think I'd probably try to move down for future picks. Pretty much all the RB including Hall were still on the board, I still think that's a luxury with Saquon but it's definitely more attractive to me knowing I'd have had to massively overpay on a premium position.

Brock Purdy was still on the board at the end... enough upside I think I'd be looking to move back into the 7th to get him if that scenario played out IRL. Cheap lottery ticket... why not.

[QuikSand]

Taking a late round QB stab feels like a no brainer.. why not Purdy, sure

[sabotai]

https://i.imgur.com/8UZcw6e.png

[QuikSand]

So I do love starting the draft with elite OT and elite CB, and going from there.

As fond as I was in concept of trading down from one of the high picks to grab more assets... I think the magnetic effect of a mock draft just draws you in for the flashy names. The specifics of the guys available in the third round, or whatever, are just more elusive... so it doesn't feel awesome to give up the rights to, say, CB Stingley... only to pick up some fairly nameless day two guys at LB and G.

So I'm very cool just mentally plugging in that this team adds T Ikwonu/Cross and CB Stingley/Gardner based on who actually falls to us and we just come away with two high end assets to feel really good about.

[bhlloy]

There is an interesting discussion if Cross and Ekwomu are both on the board (which could be more likely now I’ve seen Willis at 2 a bunch) - Ike seems to be the more highly rated overall but Cross is a more prototypical pass protecting left tackle. I don’t know enough about the Giants offense to know which is a better fit.

The other interesting side effect of Willis going in the top 5 is I’ve seen both Thibodeaux and Hamilton falling to the Giants at 7 recently. Too good to pass up at that spot? Does that mean 5 becomes the OT pick and we pass on a CB? Feels like one of those picks has to be to make the putrid offense a little better

[QuikSand]

Thibodeaux's stock is falling for sure... had been the near-consensus #1 overall on talent, and now is sliding into the maybe-5-or-10 based on, it appears, a lack of... seriousness?

[QuikSand]

There is an interesting discussion if Cross and Ekwomu are both on the board (which could be more likely now I’ve seen Willis at 2 a bunch) - Ike seems to be the more highly rated overall but Cross is a more prototypical pass protecting left tackle. I don’t know enough about the Giants offense to know which is a better fit.

Andrew Thomas, pick 1.04 in 2020, is grading out as a high quality pass blocking left tackle already... so while "the line is a priority" remains a batsignal for us all, we're in the odd spot of feeling like the one hardest slot to cover is actually taken care of. So, using an early pick here at T is already presuming he plays at either RT or I guess possibly LG.

If that's the case, we could surely make an argument for forsake OT with the two early picks, and just go with two BPA types, or even 1x CB and 1x CB.

I could live with any of these, to be fair:

S Hamilton then CB Stingley/Gardner
DE Thibodeaux/Walker and CB Stingley/Gardner in whatever order

...especially if we felt the chances of getting a quality IOL/RT in early round two were strong.

Here's a no-early-T run-through using the same engine as bhlloy above:

https://snipboard.io/LdNweP.jpg

Some familiar names here, natch... went for quantity at OL to make up for the lack of a premier selection. Faalele is grading very wildly across sites, he feels like a reach that early to me, but I basically said "take best OL available" for 36. Still seduced by a RB in the early 3rd and then our standard target TE in the late 3rd. I have seen T Volson projected as a G/T elsewhere, and is highly regarded by PFF, so I've been targeting him as a flyer late when I see him. And the punter, of course the punter.

[QuikSand]

The Athletic on Bradberry situation:

The obstacle for Schoen is finding a team willing to part with a draft pick when it’s clear the Giants need the cap savings from dumping Bradberry. The Giants have roughly $2 million in cap space. They need $12.5 million to cover their draft class, so something has to give.

The Giants have floated that they’ll hold onto Bradberry until the start of the season, but that seems like posturing. They’ll need to make a move before they sign their draft picks this summer unless they have another drastic plan to create cap space. There have been no extension talks to lower Bradberry’s 2022 cap hit, according to a source.

Quarterback carousel could help Giants find draft trade partner, James Bradberry update and more notes – The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3208551/2022/03/25/quarterback-carousel-could-help-giants-find-draft-trade-partner-james-bradberry-update-and-more-notes/)

[bhlloy]

I just can't get past a safety being a luxury pick, especially for this team. I'd be OK with DE/CB I think, that's the cornerstone of a good defense. But to prioritize S over OL with such a high pick, I don't think I can agree with that. I know Hamilton is supposed to be great... but still.

[QuikSand]

i'm obviously just falling victim to the hype

[QuikSand]

By the way, I am really liking the real-life Giants' signing of TE Ricky Seals-Jones. Just a spot on low-investment pickup there. I don't know what we had been calling for here at the position, but a guy just like that plus a middle round rookie is precisely what I'd want to see at TE1/TE2 post-Engram.

[QuikSand]

Evan Engram... continued to be physically tantalizing, but I presume we won't put up any resistance to him walking away. If Rudolph is also gone, that makes the TE position (on a weak-line team as is0 another weakness. Seems like that would be a position for a reasonable free agent and then a mid-tier draft pick, right?

Like... Anthony Firkser, or Ricky Seals-Jones... that's the level I'm thinking here for the veteran. Spend maybe 2m at the TE1 position.

oh yeah, what that guy said

[NobodyHere]

The Athletic on Bradberry situation:



Quarterback carousel could help Giants find draft trade partner, James Bradberry update and more notes – The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3208551/2022/03/25/quarterback-carousel-could-help-giants-find-draft-trade-partner-james-bradberry-update-and-more-notes/)

Report: Colts Interested in Trading for Giants CB James Bradberry - Stampede Blue (https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/3/27/22998879/report-colts-interested-in-trading-for-giants-cb-james-bradberry)

[QuikSand]

Okay, I have a break between meetings, gonna walk through a mock NYG draft, on this site that is more trade-friendly:

NFL Mock Draft Simulator - Pro Football Network (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/)

Goal will be to add some capital by dealing down early.

= = = = =

Ok, so QB Willis goes ahead of pick 5 (along with DE Hutch, DE Walker, CB Gardner), so the board at 5 includes all the tackles, DE Thibodeaux, S Hamilton, CB Stingley (rated 18 on this board) and DE Johnson.

OK, this wasn't what I had in mind, but KC offers 29+30+50 all for pick 5 - let's see how this comes together, as a different look... I will still plan to take an OT at 7, then BPA afterward:

(then one more tiny trade-down at the end of round one)

https://snipboard.io/Mc6LqF.jpg

I overlooked CB basically (this site doesn't make it easy to go back and see what you have done) but that's a different-looking batch than usual...

[DavidCorperial]

It actually does, you just have to click on the team logo and it shows you all of that teams picks

[albionmoonlight]

never mind

[albionmoonlight]

never mind

[QuikSand]

It actually does, you just have to click on the team logo and it shows you all of that teams picks

:thumbsup: thanks

[Lathum]

Just signed an international RB named....Sandro Platzgummer.....championship.

[stevew]

So we're sticking with young Mr. Jones.

Definitely get him a tackle with pick 5 or 7.

And if we can trade down to get some picks, we've got a lot of holes to fill. But who IRL is trading up?

I was looking at trade ups and Green Bay giving their 2 #1s and late 2 for #7 and our late 3rd(81ish) looked close to value. Even if we had to give up #5 instead of #7 to get it done.

[bhlloy]

Am I allowed to look for other job openings?

[bhlloy]

Turns out that’s a fake/satire account FWIW

[albionmoonlight]

Turns out that’s a fake/satire account FWIW

Second time I've posted something here from one of those accounts. Guess I need to do more due diligence.

I really dislike this proliferation of "satire" accounts that just try to get clicks with plausibly fake stories that they can then claim are just an attempt to be funny.

I'll edit the posts above.

[QuikSand]

Another mock from the profootballnetwork.com site, with trades:

For something different, I again accept an offer - here from the Lions, they send 32 34 and next year's 1st for pick 1.5 (and Malik Willis, at least that checks out). Let's see what we can do here, though it might prove to be pretty similar to the last trade-down mock...

ATL moves up to 7 from 8, we gain 24 positions on day two to get pick 43.

...and we still get T Ekwonu with our pick at 1.8. Golden.

Jets move up in the early 2nd, this is too easy...

https://snipboard.io/y4pBIE.jpg

We carry out an extra 1,3, and 3 for 2023, and still manage a huge haul here. Absurd value. Unrealistic.

[QuikSand]

https://snipboard.io/YLEAX5.jpg

CB McCreary might indeed slide to round two... a little undersized. Three Bearcats wasn't a plan but I don't hate it.

[bhlloy]

I’ve seen Ojabo fall to the mid second in some mocks due to the injury - that would be an absolute no brainer. This team isn’t going to be good next year so he can take the redshirt year and we get a top 15 talent for cheap.

Love Drake Jackson. One of the only reasons to watch SC the last couple of years. But he’s raw, he’s had struggles keeping his weight up and he’s been coached poorly and switched between DE and OLB. I don’t see him being worth the pick at this point sadly.

[QuikSand]

I’ve seen Ojabo fall to the mid second in some mocks due to the injury - that would be an absolute no brainer. This team isn’t going to be good next year so he can take the redshirt year and we get a top 15 talent for cheap.

100% my thinking there as well

[QuikSand]

Another run at a NYG mock, using this site:
NFL Mock Draft Simulator | NFL Mock Draft Database (https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator)

No gadgets this time, just "take this as seriously as possible" mode... only doing 4 rounds since the later rounds are just silly for me with my limited knowledge base (unless I'm taking the punter).

https://snipboard.io/UI6TCW.jpg

Okay, so the twist here was nearly all the QBs being available in the early 2nd... I took a flier on Pickett there. Still got a LB that I had occasionally been selecting in round 2, plus a promising TE. This feels like a great draft given the assets they come in with. No edge rusher, obviously, that's the obvious cost of the QB lottery ticket I suppose.

[albionmoonlight]

The Giants would be so happy with that draft.

You get high-end prospects at premium positions. And you still end up with a QB that a lot of people think could go in the top 10. All without giving up future assets.

That's how I hope the Saints approach the QB question. Jameis Winston is good enough that I do not want them to reach. But if they have their eye on a guy, and he happens to fall to them? Sure. Buy the lottery ticket. But don't start giving up future assets for a guy who would have been the 6th QB off the board last year.

[QuikSand]

I think the early 2nd QB menu could be substantially less appetizing than Willis or Pickett... another question I think is worth mulling here (in the spirit of a thread like this) is this:

-Assuming Willis and Pickett are the only 2x QBs gone for our early 2nd, do we take a spin with one of the other rookie QBs there?

...and then...

-Assuming Willis and Pickett are STILL the only 2x QBs gone for our early 3rd, do we take a spin with one of the other rookie QBs there?



I'd set the likelihood of the former at roughly 50%, and the latter at maybe 25%, so both scenarios seem worth contemplating.

[QuikSand]

I feel like the PFF mock engine is too heavily weighted toward their ratings, rather than "what we expect teams to think" but sometimes they do pull correct against-the-grain calls (like OT Andrew Thomas early in 2020)... anyway, here's a G-men mock through their engine, for a change of pace:

Soooooooo, all three OT available at 5 since Sauce went 1.4 here... that does feel like a realistic possibility, but it also presents an easy trade-down opportunity it seems, since I don't have them rated all that far apart, so... we trade 1.5 to get from Houston picks 13, 37, and 80. I like that a lot, even if it does mess up the utility of this exact slate of outcomes. I'll still plan to go OT then BPA, but my BPA is more likely to be an edge now than a corner, I'd guess...

https://snipboard.io/6VzUmX.jpg

Screenshot, 2022-04-04 19:40:08 - Paste.Pics (https://paste.pics/3d12ad5c45eea91faf7efbb781d4ca7a)

(looks like image host isn't working as intended here)

Okay, so if I'm mentally feeling like OT, Edge, and CB are the top needs... taking a BPA outside those three ends up forcing the issue somewhere else. I didn't love the CB options in the early 2nd, so I went Edge and S there, and this batch ends up short at CB as a result... I like the two mid-round stabs, but confidence can't be too high that you really hit there.

And here, the cost of the QB (meh) is we get nobody at TE in the first four rounds. I honestly didn't really dig there, maybe I overlooked someone I'd have liked more than one of the CBs.

I don't hate LB Lloyd as a fit for this team, but getting him rather than a CB1 had ripple effects all the way down the draft.

[albionmoonlight]

Four round mock at the PFN site. I forced a trade with the Saints for their two first rounders on the theory that they would jump up to five to grab Willis. My thinking here was to acknowledge our rebuild and try to collect a decent number of good-not-great pieces. And we picked up two second rounders next season for a possible trade up for a QB if (when) Jones turns out to not be the long term answer.



7. Ahmad Gardner CB Cincinnati
19.Trevor Penning OT Northern Iowa
36. David Ojabo EDGE Michigan
42. Trey McBride TE Colorado State
63.John Metchie III WR Alabama
67. Jalen Pitre S Baylor
81. Lecitus Smith OG Virginia Tech
112. Jerome Ford RB Cincinnati
2023 CIN 2nd
2023 IND 2nd

[QuikSand]

From FanSpeak, using their own main rankings:

https://snipboard.io/lmpz6e.jpg

Deliberate decision to start with OT/Edge...but then Wyatt was clear BPA in round 2. So, pass rush it is, we double dawg dare you. Don't know about Pitre as a DB tweener, I think I'd prefer a more pure outside corner, especially if we/they do deal/release Bradberry as still feels very likely.

[QuikSand]

Jalen Pitre Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com (https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-pitre/32005049-5408-3599-b04a-4c2328e5af83)

[QuikSand]

Inspired by a couple draft breakdowns I have gotten through recently...

https://snipboard.io/fF9HDm.jpg

Oh, I love this draft so much for the G-men. I hope they don't do it.

[QuikSand]

(running mock drafts for the Dolphins is soooooo boring this year, this has been a fun sidelight)

[QuikSand]

what pick would we accept, in this draft, straight up for RB Barkley and his entire contract?

[albionmoonlight]

If I am reading this right, we have no commitment to him in the future, and it would save us ~$7,000,000 this year: Saquon Barkley Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/saquon-barkley-25097/)

I assume if he walks next year, we get a compensatory 3rd. And I'm not sure how much value $7,000,0000 has now as opposed to at the beginning of FA (I don't know the rules about carrying over excess cap to the new year).

So I'm in no hurry to trade him. I think that I'd want mid-second round or higher. And if no team bites, then I just go into next year with him on the roster.

[bhlloy]

If a 3 gets us the pick of the top backs in this years draft like most mocks are suggesting (and I suspect that won't be the case, one or two teams will fall in love and reach) then I guess a 3+5? Get a replacement on a better contract and more years of team control and another dart throw. QS can even take his punter he loves so much :D

[JPhillips]

On the other side, who offers more than a third-day pick given his production last year and injury history? He doesn't look like the guy he was during his rookie season.

[albionmoonlight]

I guess the flip side to my position, too, is what value does keeping him on our team in 2022 really accomplish? If he's really good, he makes us 6-11 instead of 4-13?

Do we think that we could sneak into a wild card this year in a diluted NFC?

In some ways, the Barkley question is a question about how competitive we want to be in 2022. And while I don't want to go into full tank mode, this team feels like it should be focusing on 2023 and beyond. This team isn't a few lucky bounces away from being an actual contender.

[QuikSand]

if a Barkley deal fetches us my punter i am ALL IN for it... sold at the price point being a 3 + 5

[sterlingice]

What do you think the real value of a potentially generational/revolutionary punter is since there's whispers that Araiza could be one? And I mean if you take the game theory out of it: no "hey, we should be able to get him in the 4th round because no one is going to waste a 3rd on a punter".

But, but like if every team fairly valued how much he can change a game relative to other positions, where should he get drafted? Is he more valuable than some developmental OL in the 4th or rando LB in the 3rd? How about that next tier of DTs in the 2nd? Starter at position of need or BPA in the late 1st?

Like where should he really get drafted?

SI

[QuikSand]

the PFF Mock Draft simulator lets you trade actual players, I got picks 106 and 188 for Barkley, and ran our the mock with those extra picks in hand, now figuring that adding a RB1 was among the draft objectives, though at the right price (like that 106):

https://snipboard.io/XSwAUz.jpg

I don't hate it. The premiere RBs went in the 2nd/3rd tier here, so I got the best one left at a pre-determined sweet spot. On every mock I run on every site, i end up with "OMG TAKE THIS TIGHT END" from round 2-4 or so... though the exact guy doesn't always match up.

[bhlloy]

Yeah I figured the price on RBs would probably creep up closer to the draft, but I still think I’d deal him for that. Like albion said, we are probably not resigning him so looking to the future makes sense (and hey if it improves the pick next year even better)

Whether you could actually get a 3+5 for him… dunno. Figure some team will think they can get him healthy and turn him around. But not sure if that is worth that much capital.

[albionmoonlight]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">the most expensive WR room in 2022?<br><br>the New York Giants, at $40,152,615<br><br>the fewest TDs by a WR room in 2021?<br><br>the New York Giants, at 5 TDs<br><br>not only was it the fewest in 2021<br><br>it was the fewest by any WR room since 2017<br><br>and now they're the most expensive WR room in the NFL ��</p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1513966433016897547?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[stevew]

I feel like we have to call about Kyler Murray. I get the whole depth through the line stuff, etc, but he makes us immediately relevant.

[bhlloy]

I think you have to make the call but the price on that would be outrageous. Does Jones, the two firsts this year plus two more firsts and a package of other players/picks even register?

I honestly don’t see why the Cards would even think about moving him this year with a weak QB class. I’d let him sit, if he really cares enough to give up a year of #1 overall pick salary let him stew and get a great pick next year plus an absolute haul.

[BYU 14]

the PFF Mock Draft simulator lets you trade actual players, I got picks 106 and 188 for Barkley, and ran our the mock with those extra picks in hand, now figuring that adding a RB1 was among the draft objectives, though at the right price (like that 106):

https://snipboard.io/XSwAUz.jpg

I don't hate it. The premiere RBs went in the 2nd/3rd tier here, so I got the best one left at a pre-determined sweet spot. On every mock I run on every site, i end up with "OMG TAKE THIS TIGHT END" from round 2-4 or so... though the exact guy doesn't always match up.

Where did Allgeier go out of curiosity?

[QuikSand]

Allgeier is all over the map in these mocks... I have seen him among the top 10 RBs, and also near the tail end of the draft, just depends on where someone has slotted him in the rankings that drive each sim. He seems like a total wildcard.

[QuikSand]

So, I had plans to trade down, but Cross and Sauce felt too right as the start here, so no serious deal. Then LB Lloyd at 36? Okay, I don't see it happening, but this can be a best-case sort of deal, I suppose.

https://snipboard.io/oB2aUS.jpg

So, I left edge for awfully late, that's the big oversight here. But this would be a tremendous outcome - it's possible that off-ball LB is a position that does fall in round one, but Llloyd at 36 seems far-fetched.

RB Allgeier went with pick 145, btw

[QuikSand]

Another Cross and Sauce start here, on a different site...the round 2 options seem much more reasonable to me (LB Dean, QB Ridder, most of the RBs)... I decide to wait at edge again, and it shows, again... but less as Paschal feels like good value later on.

https://snipboard.io/SAnWON.jpg

Not fully sold on LB Dean, but this is close to a NYG dream draft in my book.

[QuikSand]

https://snipboard.io/Hcmd9n.jpg

I have to say, if we consider the three main need areas to be edge, RT, and CB in some order... waiting at CB may be the way to come out with all three of them best addressed.

[bhlloy]

From what I’ve been reading the drop from Gardner to a second round CB is far steeper than the drop from a Walker or Thibodeaux to a second round DE, at least in terms of the entire package. It also seems to me like an elite CB who can survive on an island is harder to find (if that’s our goal), but I can see the logic I guess.

[JPhillips]

I think I'd go DE, CB, and then RT in round 2 or 3.

[QuikSand]

Yeah, my mocks are all starting to take on the same flavors, at each site I have certain guys who are reliably available at certain slots...

https://snipboard.io/hv1Wlz.jpg

And expect WR/RB/KR Pimpleton to start showing up as a late round flyer now, from me. I like this kid.

[bhlloy]

I think I'd go DE, CB, and then RT in round 2 or 3.

I think this is actually a key point - if we aren’t looking for a franchise LT, typically you can find a decent RT or interior linemen in rounds 2-3 or even beyond, so maybe the defensive double stack does make the most sense here

[JPhillips]

Traded down twice from 4 to 11 and got a 1 and 2 2s next year while still getting the DE and CB this year.

7. Kayvon Thibodeaux
EDGE Oregon

11. Derek Stingley Jr.
CB LSU

36. Tyler Linderbaum
OC Iowa

81. Daniel Faalele
OT Minnesota

112. James Cook
RB Georgia

147. Alontae Taylor
CB Tennessee

173. Cole Turner
TE Nevada

182. Micah McFadden
LB Indiana

2023 WAS 1st
2023 CAR 2nd
2023 WAS 2nd

[QuikSand]

Traded down twice from 4 to 11 and got a 1 and 2 2s next year while still getting the DE and CB this year.

7. Kayvon Thibodeaux
EDGE Oregon

11. Derek Stingley Jr.
CB LSU

36. Tyler Linderbaum
OC Iowa

81. Daniel Faalele
OT Minnesota

...



marvelous

[JPhillips]

I wasn't planning on Linderbaum, but it was irresistible at 36.

I also can't believe the picks could actually work out this way.

[QuikSand]

mock sites have been letting LB Lloyd fall into the late 1st... meanwhile the whisper market has him increasingly showing up in the top ten... beats me

[bhlloy]

FWIW Kiper and McShays mock on ESPN yesterday had him falling to the end of the first… it’s an interesting Rorschach test about what you think NFL teams value in 2022 for sure

[JPhillips]

Well Kiper and McShay had the Bengals picking him, so I really question their prediction. The Bengals rarely use more than 2 LBs and are quite happy with Wilson and Pratt. Oher than QB, LB might be the only position they don't consider drafting.

[QuikSand]

https://snipboard.io/eMFUG8.jpg

Nothing shocking here, just cycling...

[QuikSand]

The sites that fling trade offers at you are just fish-in-a-barrel fun...

https://snipboard.io/xqPupn.jpg

[QuikSand]

Fun article on small school prospects, via The Athletic:

NFL Draft 2022: Under-the-radar prospects whose pro days are moving them up team boards - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3252203/2022/04/15/nfl-draft-prospects-pro-days/)

[QuikSand]

And, Walter Football (https://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam) has a tracker of each team's "Top 30" visits with propsects... might as well leverage that as we are looking at these mid-round picks, right?


https://walterfootball.com/jscss/Images/Logos/TRN/NYG.gif New York Giants
Nik Bonitto, Outside Linebacker, Oklahoma (PRI)
Treylon Burks, Wide Receiver, Arkansas (COM)
Lewis Cine, Safety, Georgia (PRI)
James Cook, Running Back, Florida State (PRI)
James Cook, Running Back, Georgia (PRI)
Justin Covington, Running Back, Villanova (LOC)
Charles Cross, Offensive Tackle, Mississippi State (COM)
Nakobe Dean, Outside Linebacker, Georgia (PRO)
Ikem Ekwonu, Offensive Tackle, N.C. State (PRI)
Olakunle Fatukasi, Linebacker, Rutgers (LOC)
Ahmad Gardner^, Cornerback, Cincinnati (COM, PRO, PRI)
Jarrett Guarantano, Quarterback, Washington State (LOC)
Breece Hall, Running Back, Iowa State (PRI)
Logan Hall, Defensive End, Houston (PRI)
Kyle Hamilton, Safety, Notre Dame (VIR)
Jovani Haskins, Tight End, Rutgers (LOC)
Sam Howell, Quarterback, North Carolina (PRI)
Aidan Hutchinson, Defensive End, Michigan (PRI)
Zion Johnson^, Offensive Guard, Boston College (COM, SR)
Travis Jones, Defensive Tackle, Connecticut (PRI)
Tyler Linderbaum, Center, Iowa (COM)
Abraham Lucas, Offensive Tackle, Washington State (PRI)
Jesse Luketa, Linebacker, Penn State (LOC)
Boye Mafe, Defensive End, Minnesota (PRI)
Trey McBride, Tight End, Colorado State (COM)
Bo Melton, Wide Receiver, Rutgers (LOC)
Thayer Munford, Offensive Guard, Ohio State (VIR)
Evan Neal, Offensive Guard, Alabama (PRI)
Kenny Pickett, Quarterback, Pittsburgh (PRI)
Jalen Pitre, Safety, Baylor (VIR)
Brian Robinson Jr., Running Back, Alabama (PRI)
Brandon Smith, Outside Linebacker, Penn State (PRI)
Tyler Smith, Offensive Tackle, Tulsa (PRI)
Derek Stingley^, Cornerback, LSU (COM, PRI)
Cole Strange, Offensive Guard, Chattanooga (WOR)
Pierre Strong Jr., Running Back, South Dakota State (WOR)
Ja'Sir Taylor, Cornerback, Wake Forest (LOC)
Kayvon Thibodeaux^, Defensive End, Oregon (COM, PRI)
Isaiah Thomas, Defensive End, Oklahoma (VIR)
Cole Turner, Tight End, Nevada (VIR)
Amir Tyler, Safety, Temple (LOC)
Travon Walker, Defensive End, Georgia (PRI)
Bryce Watts, Defensive Back, Massachusetts (LOC)
Malik Willis^, Quarterback, Liberty (COM, PRI)
Jelani Woods, Tight End, Virginia (PRI)


Notes:

SR - Senior Bowl meeting.
EW - East-West Shrine meeting.
COM - Combine meeting.
INT - Interested.
VINT - Very Interested.
PRO - Pro Day or campus meeting/workout.
LOC - Local visit. Prospect making a local visit.
PRI - Private visit. Prospect making an official 30 visit.
WOR - Private Workout. Members of an organization working out a player in private.
STM - Some Type of Meeting.
VIR - Virtual Meeting.
% - indicates more than one meeting at an event.
^ - has met with team at more than one event.
# - indicates meeting set up outside of the 2022 Senior Bowl or the 2022 East-West Shrine Game

[QuikSand]

https://snipboard.io/9Vcib8.jpg

Didn't heed the interviews as much as I said I would... going to start working that in more. Here, Cross was last of the big OT left for pick 5, forcing the issue - had to choose between Walker and Gardner at 7.

[QuikSand]

Running a Giants mock, but sticking to their interview list for all picks, as a change of pace:

https://snipboard.io/vPrQgH.jpg

I kinda hate it, but it's possibly closer to reality than my personal stabs in the dark, right?

[QuikSand]

G-men focused coverage in the Athletic:

Updates on Kadarius Toney and James Bradberry, plus more on the Giants as the draft nears - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3270133/2022/04/25/toney-bradberry-giants-nfl-draft/)

Your money quote:

The Giants will create $12.1 million in cap savings by trading Bradberry and $10.1 million by releasing him. The Giants need that money just to sign their draft class unless Schoen is going to drastically alter course and restructure the contracts of wide receiver Kenny Golladay or defensive lineman Leonard Williams.

It has been challenging for Schoen to find a team willing to give up a draft pick to acquire Bradberry, who has a $13.4 million salary in the final year of his contract.

Also chatter about them moving on from WR Toney after one injury-plagued year, citing "fit" concerns but suffering a major cap hit and actual loss of cap space this year if they do so. Some team willing to take on a project (KC? NE?) should surely knock on that door, right?

[sabotai]

FWIW, the media source (Pat Leonard) for the news about the Giants trying to trade Toney is not a reliable one. He even tweeted out a backpedaling tweet this afternoon in response to Jordan Ranann essentially calling bullshit on the rumors in a professional way.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Spoke to a bunch of sources around the league about second-year WR Kadarius Toney over the weekend. Giants view him as a valuable asset. Would want a significant return. Makes it seem right now the likelihood is he does not get moved.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/giants?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#giants</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/nfl?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#nfl</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLDraft2022?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLDraft2022</a></p>&mdash; Jordan Raanan (@JordanRaanan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/1518553140483792897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[sabotai]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As for Kadarius Toney being traded, I'm still told the Giants weren't shopping him. They were just willing to listen when some teams called, as they are with every player. Some teams wanted to see if Giants were willing to sell low. They are not.</p>&mdash; Ralph Vacchiano (@RVacchianoSNY) <a href="https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/1518619283860955144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[QuikSand]

That makes much more sense re: Toney unless the guy is a total wreck to have around.

[stevew]

They declined the 5th year option on Jones. I wonder if Willis is in play for 5 or possibly Pickett

[Lathum]

Toney was really good when he was on the field and it is way too early to give up on him.

[bhlloy]

Jones news doesn’t necessarily mean the Giants are walking away from him, could just mean they think they can get an extension done for a lot less than 30m (which unless he plays significantly better this year is true) - but it also doesn’t mean they aren’t planning on doing that.

With that being said, I still just don’t think the QBs in this years draft are good enough to make it worth a look. Roll with Jones and if he is what he’s been so far we will be high enough to pick a better one next year.

[bhlloy]

Well, feels like we mostly got this right. A tackle and a defensive player (2 CBs were already off the board). Pretty low bar, but nothing crazy like WR happened.

[QuikSand]

Agreed, things went fine through day one. Given the first four picks, I really felt that Thibodeaux at 5 was the play, and take the best remaining OT at 7. Done.

Now... there are going to be QB options for the NYG early 2nd rounder, but I'm still inclined to pass there. Mayyyyyyybe tempted if Willis is there, but... really don't even want to. I'm totally aboard with turning down the 5th year option on Jones, even if he does remain somewhat in the picture.

I think they can land a quality DB/DT addition here and round out the ideal top three pretty well.

[QuikSand]

A way forward:

https://snipboard.io/gwUT1Z.jpg

[sabotai]

https://i.imgur.com/oyLfge6l.png

[QuikSand]

bad draft no punter

[QuikSand]

Deal down from 36 I like it, Vikes got PAID to move down just now, it's a great time to not be in love

[QuikSand]

Down again, just racking up middle round picks to clear room for that punter pick baby

[QuikSand]

...on deck at 43, I necessarily like another trade down, but I'd take DT Travis Jones or LB Nakobe Dean here.

[QuikSand]

oh dear

[Atocep]

oh dear

FO metrics love him, but that picks seems like just a smaller version of the guy they picked last year.

[QuikSand]

okay, shake it off... we have a shot to take a stab at a QB way better than expected in the early 3rd... but some other awfully intriguing guys sliding too

DT Jones, LB Dean, LB Chenal, LB Muma

but hell I think i'd just take the top QB you have rated there... right?

[GrantDawg]

Have to think Dean think has a medical situation that hasn't been made public.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[QuikSand]

reach lineman, right

[bhlloy]

Gone a bit off the rails here based on my read. When you aren’t a good team you shouldn’t be making reaches on guys who fit very specific roles, but who knows what other teams rated these guys at I guess

[bhlloy]

Have to think Dean think has a medical situation that hasn't been made public.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Or a very recent “character issue” that hasn’t leaked

[JPhillips]

I've read that Dean has concussion issues, but I don't know if that's true.

[QuikSand]

From here...

https://snipboard.io/25iDAh.jpg

The shot at QB seems like a no brainer at this point... and getting one of the top remaining TE likewise.

After my obligatory punter, the rest are darts. Lots of intriguing RBs out there, enough to carry through the whole draft, per usual. Just missed on Kennedy Brooks, my favorite of the likely late-late-rounders.

[QuikSand]

pick 146 is up guys, you know what to do

[QuikSand]

ok, no punt god but LB McFadden is a heck of a blitzing LB, good fit for what Wink usually wants to do in his system

[Pyser]

not mad they didnt go for a qb. this year is all about jones, and if he's not the guy you have to go qb next year. nightmare scenario is thinking the guy you got in round 4 could get it done, but he gets no time rookie year and you wasted a 4th this year on someone who contributed zero. especially on a team with so little talent as the giants right now.

[stevew]

Bradbury cut to free up cap space for draft picks.

[albionmoonlight]

Bradbury's pretty good for a May cut. I expect he'll get something surprisingly decent from a team with cap space.

[bhlloy]

Saw multiple draftniks pick the Wandale Robinson pick as their least favorite in the entire draft fwiw. Seemed like a strange one with multiple more conventional impact WR still on the board, and doesn’t look like it’s getting any better with time.

[stevew]

‘You’re (expletive) fired’: How Giants found the ‘Scottish Hammer,’ their new punter with a funny backstory - nj.com (https://www.nj.com/giants/2022/06/youre-expletive-fired-how-the-giants-found-the-scottish-hammer-their-new-punter-with-a-funny-backstory.html)

[QuikSand]

So, side item... all the chatter here has me convinced that I want to play a NYG career in Madden '23 this fall, and fiddle around with some house rule saying I need to re-sign all the young guys they actually took in this draft, something like that. They didn't draft "what I wanted" after the first tier of picks, but it seems like it will be kinda fun after bandying about this thread for a while.

[QuikSand]

New York Giants 2022 NFL Draft - Giants Draft Picks - Giants.com (https://www.giants.com/draft/2022/)

[QuikSand]

Just a moment... (https://nfltraderumors.co/giants-make-eight-roster-moves-2/)

[QuikSand]

Also chatter about them moving on from WR Toney after one injury-plagued year, citing "fit" concerns but suffering a major cap hit and actual loss of cap space this year if they do so. Some team willing to take on a project (KC? NE?) should surely knock on that door, right?

Love digging back into this thread...

[QuikSand]

Several mentions in this thread, in our various mock drafts, of grabbing guys who have turned out to be hidden gems in the real life draft... LB Malcolm Rodriguez, TE Isaiah Likely jump out but surely more than that.

NICE JOB TEAM GMEN

[QuikSand]

I will note that I was tossing a late round NYG pick to Khalil Pimpleton in most of my later mock drafts when we were doing this, and I have gathered that he might get a call-up from the NYG practice squad to play in this week's game. His skill set is fairly similar to Wan'Dale Robinson's and with him out, there could be a role for him.

I think KP could do well in a hybrid receiving-back slot-back role in this offense, but we'll see. No idea if he can help in pass protection, he may be too slight to do that I suppose.

[SirFozzie]

So, how bout them Giants?

[QuikSand]

BANG UP JOB FOFC, BEST WORK SINCE OUR AIRCRAFT CARRIER I RECKON

[QuikSand]

Hey guys, two guys we discussed here had major effects on the Superbowl, yay!