2022 and beyond Social Media Thread [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

albionmoonlight

11-01-2022, 07:43 AM

I don't know if this makes sense, but the Elon/Twitter stuff is kind of falling into threads where it does not quite fit. And with all of the social media stuff out there, it seems like an all-purpose thread to discuss it might be useful.

My first thought--I have pre-teen/young teen boys. The main social platform--by far--is discord. That is the one that they use to engage with real life friends and with far-flung internet communities. They also use reddit for general browsing and YouTube for watching stuff. Neither is into TikTok, which seems weird given their ages, but they both say that it just does not interest them.

Twitter/facebook/MySpace/Message Boards/email might as well be telegrams as far as they are concerned--ancient technology notable only for historical interest.

cuervo72

11-01-2022, 08:07 AM

I don't believe my kids care about Twitter either, and they're both over 20. I know Discord and TikTok are in their mix. I'm not sure I get the randomness of TikTok, or the fact that it is mostly video. Not something I need. (Now, I understand there are some videos out there of the "do a little jump, now WHOOPS I'm naked!" variety. These are amusing in their way, but I figure you can see that sort of thing elsewhere outside the app.)

So, I want to read things from Twitter. It's become my latest aggregator, after Netvibes, then Facebook, then Google News. Facebook just became too much crap -- aunts posting gluts of "you're this old if you remember this" and puppy pictures and Jesus sayings; ex-coworkers posting hippie chick, witch/bitch, sparkly rock gifs; HS classmates hawking diet schemes. Oh, and ads. Too many ads. A lot of them, oddly, for women's underwear. Which is not something I ever buy (for me or anyone else) though I do get the visual appeal of the marketing.

Google News was better, but still gave me a little too much Fox-oriented content, and didn't seem fast enough.

So a few months ago I broke down and started a Twitter account. It was pretty nice -- I could follow news outlets, sports outlets, People/Billboard to cover pop culture trivia holes (though People is a little too much of 90 Day Fiancee and LOOK HOW GROWN UP 9 YEAR OLD CHILD OF CELEBRITY IS" and "ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU HAD ABOUT THIS CELEBRITY'S FAMILY"; seriously, who the fuck cares? Billboard is better, it lets me know of things like Super Freaky Girl and that Takeoff was shot and killed.). Also I can follow celeb packs like Gail Simone, Diedrich Bader, Michael McKean, John Scalzi, etc.* or get daily mass postings of art from Jack Kirby and Alex Ross, or stuff like the Super 70s Sports Guy. With a little Subby or Young Drachma mixed in.

I'm sure at some point there will be another aggregator. For now, this one works, but we'll see for how long.

* edit: I forgot TV's Frank.

Brian Swartz

11-01-2022, 08:16 AM

I expect this kind of thing to continue to evolve, and in a few years there will be something we've never heard of. Some of the old ones will continue on, and others will crumble.

miked

11-01-2022, 08:22 AM

My daughter is 13 and complained about wanting Tik Tok for the longest time. Their friends just sit around and make stupid Tik Tok videos half the time, which seems dreadful. Nobody uses Facebook or Twitter. For a while she wanted Instagram and Snapchat, but now she does not really care too much for those. I imagine in 3 years it will be something else. She thinks Facebook is stupid and we are falling in to boomer territory by even caring what goes on there.

Ksyrup

11-01-2022, 08:38 AM

My kids are also into TikTok, which I don't get. And Instagram. I don't care about pictures and don't have any interest in communicating via pictures/videos. My kids send at least 1 or 2 TikToks to our family text group a day and maybe 1 out of 10 of them I find entertaining. Most I just don't even understand why? I will never do TikTok/Instagram. They both use Twitter though, and we do a fair amount of DMing stuff we see to each other (the wife is sometimes included, but it's mostly between me and the girls). At least they got over Snapchat, which was the stupidest thing I've ever seen - we'd get random flashes of light in the car and it's just snaps of stupid faces sent back and forth. You don't have to be old to think that's stupid.

Like cuervo, Twitter has long been my aggregator . I love the fact that I don't have to constantly change it to a chronological feed (like FB, which would not allow and actively hid the Most Recent feature for years), however the constant stream of stuff means I miss a lot as well. The ideal set up for me would be a Twitter feed with FB-like groups dedicated to certain topics, hobbies, interests, teams, bands, etc. That's the ONLY thing I miss about FB is the message board-like communities. I just couldn't take everything else that went with FB to stay.

As a dinosaur, I much prefer the message board experience - it can be a relatively small community where you get to know people compared to... the anonymous universe... (or conversely, 3 or 4 local friends - it's often nicely positioned between the two extremes), topics can be picked up or left based on the ebb and flow of the community, it's much easier to see things you might have missed, and there isn't a "raging stream" feel where if you don't jump in right now, you miss out totally on discussing a topic. The Twitter feed just keeps moving, and if you aren't there and jump in, it's gone. Here, we can easily pick up a topic after a weekend, or when a topic/issue comes back up weeks or months later, people see new activity, and it can start back up.

The trend to go just video sucks, IMO. I remember when Fox Sports essentially became a video board, and I haven't been back in 5+ years at least. I also don't do podcasts - I have no interest in listening to people talk, as the only time I would do that is in my car and that's music time. YouTube is fine for what it is, but there's absolutely no "community" feel to it. It's just there to watch videos when that's what you want.

albionmoonlight

11-01-2022, 11:14 AM

Kodos

11-01-2022, 11:47 AM

I have a Facebook account, but I mostly just check the little bell icon for updates my friends have posted (family stuff and the like) rather than scrolling through. And I don't have the app, I just go to Facebook in Firefox (the app is a privacy nightmare). If not for that, I would abandon Facebook entirely. But it's good for casually staying up on my friend's lives.

Not on Twitter or any other social media. Really, FOFC kinda acts as my news aggregator. And then I have the NY Times app for just plain news.

Kodos

11-01-2022, 11:54 AM

Also, I kinda hope Musk kills Twitter and loses all the money he spent on it for nothing.

JonInMiddleGA

11-01-2022, 12:02 PM

But it's good for casually staying up on my friend's lives.

Which, ya know, seems like it was kinda always the purpose.

Honestly, one of my bigger regrets about my FB involvement is how many Pages I ever followed.

And I miss the days when you could easily pare your feed down to only seeing Friends posts.

Ksyrup

11-01-2022, 12:19 PM

I originally got on FB to connect with old schoolmates ahead of our 20th reunion. In the 10-15 years since, I realized there are only a tiny fraction of those people I really like or care to interact with (or even follow), and that I felt much the same with people I now know who live near me or I interact with in real life.

The only value I got out of FB was in groups, but even that required me to accept the typical social media interaction experiences of people whining, others responding, flare-ups, infusing politics, etc. Some of the groups were interesting from a psychological perspective, like a couple of running groups I was in where it seemed like 75% of the people were there to post pics of themselves every day to get comments, and then like clockwork, every 2 or 3 weeks, one person would point this out to the group and get jumped on by a bunch of people offended because it hit too close to home (I'm just guessing!). Every now and then I'd post in one of those threads that this group is like spending a day in an airport people watching/judging.

I just got tired of it. Basically, if you distilled FB down to all that is interesting that people can communicate to each other, but could remove the people, FB would be great!

GrantDawg

11-01-2022, 12:29 PM

I look at Facebook maybe once a day. I have most of my "friends" blocked on there because of the constant barrage of Right-wing stupidity. I only check it to keep up with my family since we spend zero time together. It is the only way I have seen several of my nephews and nieces. Instagram never interested me. I don't take very good pictures, and I really don't get much (again outside of family members) from seeing pictures.

I have developed a Tik Tok addiction. I don't get any news or deep discussions from it. I just really love the comedy and parody stuff on there. I spend 30 minutes to an hour on there every morning after I catch up on news (from Twitter and here mainly). It actually has a pretty amazing algorithm that does a great job of funneling what you show interest in on to your "For You" stream. Every once in awhile I will get someone spouting nonsense, or something I have no interest in. But it is really rare. I was afraid it was going to be loaded with kids doing the dances as such, but the algorithm did an excellent job keeping the stuff it sent me age appropriate. I actually can't remember a single under 21 creator popping up on my timeline. Can't say the same of Facebook's Reels, that seems to constantly have underage kids as suggestions that it keeps pushing on my timeline there.
Youtube is very useful for "How To's" from gaming to stuff around the house. If I had the time, I could probably really get into Twitch. I every once in awhile watch someone playing a game I'm trying to learn. There is just limit to how long I can watch till I want to play it myself. Plus, there is really weird trend of these streamers putting their face in the corner, which is distracting and usually very unattractive. I really don't need to look at you, dude. I'm here for the game.
Then there is Twitter. I constantly look at at Twitter. I check it first thing in the morning, I check it at work, and then I generally browse it while watching TV at night. I get most of my news from there, and in the last couple of years I have started being apart of the Twitter of Time community for Wheel of Time fans. They are way less toxic than the Facebook and Reddit communities. I've actually feel like a part of the community there.
I also check Reddit once a day, but only the communities I follow (generally gaming). Before I got so into Twitter, I used to use Reddit as my aggregate for current happenings, but was just so dark most of the time.

GrantDawg

11-01-2022, 12:31 PM

Oh, I also use Facebook to see Ben every once in awhile. He posts regularily on there unlike here.

Izulde

11-01-2022, 12:40 PM

I paradoxically find myself using FB more than ever, but then I'm in a fair number of groups where I'm relatively active (the AP Lit teachers group in particular has been the best PD I've ever had, even though I'm not teaching this year and might not ever again).

Twitter never did appeal to me. Instagram and Snapchat I never had any interest in, though I keep aware of it. TikTok I'll once in a while see something on because it gets sent to me.

And yes, FB is a dinosaur land. TikTok and YouTube are primarily where Gen Z has congregated. Instagram and Snapchat are secondary in popularity, and I feel like Instagram will experience the biggest dropoff once those two start going the way of FB.

Twitter still has staying power for a while yet, unless Musk breaks it (entirely possible)

miami_fan

11-01-2022, 01:45 PM

Twitter is sort of a catch all for me.I also use Twitter as a news aggregator but also for some work stuff and surprisingly to interact with like minded people who have become friends. So far, my son's social media presence includes Tik Tok, Snapchat and Discord. I would also include his PS5 and Xbox chats.

One thing that still boggles my mind is how open he is with whatever he is watching on Tik Tok. Don 't get me wrong. I am extremely happy that he does show me the stuff that he is watching. I just know I would never run to show my parents what my peers were doing when I was his age no matter what it was.

Ksyrup

11-01-2022, 02:33 PM

Speaking of aggregators, my phone's Chrome Google homepage serves to aggregate articles that suit my interests. One of the articles that came up just now:

Alternatives to Elon Muskâ€™s Twitter: Mastadon, Reddit, Cohost, Tumblr, and more - The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/23429095/twitter-social-network-alternatives-mastodon-reddit-tumblr-cohost)

It's one of those catch-22 things. I'm concerned about privacy issues, but I'll admit I like the fact that I get articles tailored to my interests without having to search for them. When I make travel plans, all of a sudden I get articles about places to go where I've booked hotels or planes. When I read music reviews or sports articles, I get related content.

Someone above mentioned Mastodon. Based on the description in that article, I might give that a try tonight. Even if I stay on Twitter, I want to find some other places more topic-based (Reddit seems too chaotic, although I've browsed there from time to time).

Edward64

11-01-2022, 02:39 PM

FB to keep up with family & friends social stuff. I've blocked my BIL Trumper (and others) about 5-6 years ago. The remaining folks are generally pretty good about keeping politics and social protests out.

Use Twitter. Not into TikTok or Instagram or SnapChat.

I've got a Line group chat with some school friends from all over the world (some of them are very sensitive/paranoid about security). I use WhatsApp to communicate with family over the world. Use Discord for some games.

Kodos

11-01-2022, 02:49 PM

I don't use it, but Mastadon is supposed to be good from a privacy standpoint.

miami_fan

11-01-2022, 02:53 PM

Also, I kinda hope Musk kills Twitter and loses all the money he spent on it for nothing.

I am fascinated to see what Musk does with Twitter. My suspicion is that he was just talking shit when he made the offer and shocked when Twitter said sure and took him to court to force him to buy it. I have no need nor no interest in paying for Twitter or any of the content but I did not think I would pay for the Athletic either.

I have developed a Tik Tok addiction. I don't get any news or deep discussions from it. I just really love the comedy and parody stuff on there.

Some of the stuff has shown me on there or stuff that has made it over to Twitter is hilarious. The people in those videos have some real talent. I am not sure if they could carry a 22 minute sitcom much less an entire season but I have laugh more than I have at most of the sitcoms on terrestrial TV.

Ksyrup

11-01-2022, 03:06 PM

It sounds like I could find some tailored interests/entertainment from TikTok, but I have the same issue with it as I do podcasts - I want text and images, not videos and sound. I don't walk around with earbuds in and am not going to play stuff on my phone out loud, so that practically limits how often I would use it.

I looked at Mastodon and now I don't know if that one is worth joining. You can only join one server at a time, the topics are limited, and some have wait lists. So if you get in one, you're limited to just that topic, it looks like. And then if you leave that one for another topic, you're stuck there unless you can get back on a previous server? It's a bit confusing.

I am going to check out CounterSocial and Cohost tonight.

GrantDawg

11-01-2022, 04:09 PM

Tik Tok is what I watch when I have some time alone. I agree that I mostly don't want video/sound because if you are not alone you either have to put earphones on or be really rude. That said, i listen to podcast all day because I my work. I wear headphones all day when I am not in the car. Podcast and Audible 8 hours a day pretty much.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

JeeberD

11-01-2022, 04:33 PM

I spend more time than I should on TikTok...both for entertainment, as well as news/information. However, their algorithm is REALLY good and I've found it is an echo chamber of those who share my political alignment. Nothing ever shows up from those with differing viewpoints. I know that a lot of people think that's a good thing, but I take the information I get off the platform with a grain of salt.

I'm on Facebook throughout the day on the app...I don't post much, expect to share pictures of the kids or fun things we're doing, or during the baseball playoffs when I make all of my friends roll their eyes at my Astros posts.

I've been on Twitter more the past couple of weeks than I have...ever? But that has a lot to do with the baseball playoffs and trying to consume as much information as possible. Once the playoffs are over, I imagine that I'll go back to jumping on their during random intervals to get specific information, or if a tweet is recommended to me.

I do spend a bunch of time on the Astros message board, as well as the affiliated debate and discussion board. That's probably where I spend the bulk of my online time these days.

Edward64

11-01-2022, 08:10 PM

I don't use it, but Mastadon is supposed to be good from a privacy standpoint.

Thanks, never heard of it. But pretty sure that group is happy with Line. It went from email group, to FB, to WhatsApp, to Line.

Atocep

11-01-2022, 08:49 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Anyway, my tuppence worth on Musk and Twitter. He’s in for a rocky ride, and the question for me is whether his ego is going to make him destroy Twitter. Right now, what’s pretty clear is that he doesn’t understand what makes Twitter work. 1/10</p>— Prof Paul Bernal (@PaulbernalUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulbernalUK/status/1587353418406010881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 1, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pretty good summation thread, I think.

tl;dr Owning Twitter and making it profitable isn't easy. And Musk seems particularly ill-suited to do it.

Making it subscription based for most of your heavy users while trying to turn it into something similar, but worse than tik tok, sounds like a sure-fire way to destroy it.

I don't think Musk actually realizes how much he's disliked right now and people are looking for absolutely any reason to bail on twitter.

Lathum

11-01-2022, 09:00 PM

https://twitter.com/chrisfluming/status/1587521848392048640?s=46&t=ShIGv9NiL-QfLMyDDkQHyQ

Fidatelo

11-02-2022, 07:48 AM

My sons (12 and 13) are not allowed on TikTok, but I'm sure they'd be on it all the time if they were. As it is they found YouTube shorts and spend way too much time watching those, which I think are basically the same deal. For socializing with friends it is all Discord for them (or in-game chat).

I have a FB account but have rarely ever posted anything. I don't check it very often, as the non-chronological feed confuses/infuriates me. I'd just have left it entirely if not for the Groups feature, which is useful for one or two groups I am part of.

I have a Twitter account but stopped actively using it around 7 or 8 years ago. I only keep it around so that I can view tweets people link to. I've been debating just killing it since the Elon takeover, but haven't acted yet.

My main news consumption is via Reddit. I follow some local groups and then also just get world news on the main feed. I spend way too much time on there. My secondary news consumption is via this forum :eek:

The move to video-over-text content is awful. My house is just filled with blaring sounds at all times from people consuming content. I really miss the internet from around 10 years ago or so; it felt like the sweet spot where sites had mostly figured out responsive, clean design but content was still focused around articles and text. I sort of feel like the death of Google Reader was the end of the golden era of internet from my perspective.

sterlingice

11-02-2022, 10:34 AM

My first thought--I have pre-teen/young teen boys. The main social platform--by far--is discord. That is the one that they use to engage with real life friends and with far-flung internet communities. They also use reddit for general browsing and YouTube for watching stuff. Neither is into TikTok, which seems weird given their ages, but they both say that it just does not interest them.

Twitter/facebook/MySpace/Message Boards/email might as well be telegrams as far as they are concerned--ancient technology notable only for historical interest.

Except for some use of Facebook for keeping up with family and old friends, I use the internet like a pre-teen boy. Lines up with my maturity level :p

SI

sterlingice

11-02-2022, 10:45 AM

Which, ya know, seems like it was kinda always the purpose.

Honestly, one of my bigger regrets about my FB involvement is how many Pages I ever followed.

And I miss the days when you could easily pare your feed down to only seeing Friends posts.

I mean, even if you ditch all the pages you follow and are basically just with friends, it means that 1 out of every 2-3 posts are ads.

About 90% of my Facebook interactions end up like this:
My wife says "did you see what X posted"
I go to my my wall
I scroll between 30-90s before getting fed up not finding the post I was looking for - in this time, I have scrolled past at least 10 ads, clicking on none of them
Then I just search for the user, look at the post, say "Haha, that was funny", "Wow, I can't believe how much their kid looks like them", etc
Then I close Facebook and go to Reddit, which has like 1 ad for every 8ish posts in the app or none on Firefox with Noscript
How people have the patience to spend all day, every day scrolling there to do it... I just can't. I mean, I think, at the end of the day, it's ostensibly to look at family and friends crap, but generally to post political garbage and either try to "convert" the other side or, more likely, try to crap on someone with different political views.

SI

Lathum

11-02-2022, 11:11 AM

My son is 12 and has been begging for Discord and I have been fighting it. Seems like a lot of you have kids that age who have it. What made you ok with it?

Ksyrup

11-02-2022, 06:56 PM

Speaking of TikTok and privacy/security...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TikTok just acknowledged to European users that it can share their data with the Chinese government. This is a massive admission, and a key to a puzzle. To understand why, it's important to understand CCP influence in Chinese companies (thread).<a href="https://t.co/r3LkLdiSRi">https://t.co/r3LkLdiSRi</a></p>— Isaac Stone Fish (@isaacstonefish) <a href="https://twitter.com/isaacstonefish/status/1587905349339779079?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-02-2022, 08:31 PM

I was going to post something about that earlier in this thread but hesitated. Like I can't see myself using TikTok until some of the privacy concerns are addressed and I'm not sure how they can suitably address them. Like, TikTok seems to be one big viral app from the CCP - where Russia has to develop their own tools and farms to sew division on other social media like FB, Twitter, etc - China can just do whatever with TikTok from skim data to sew division to manipulate using what appears to be a hyper good algorithm (which probably has nothing to do with the lack of data privacy).

SI

Ksyrup

11-02-2022, 08:50 PM

Apparently the latest idiocy from Musk is allowing content creators to charge for access to video and Twitter takes a cut. I can't fathom any video I would pay to watch on Twitter. And you're telling me it's not going to end up on YT? This would be like paywalled articles - I click on a link I want to read, see I'd have to pay, back out of the link, and scroll on.

I think one outcome from this Twitter mess is that I'll likely never consider buying a Tesla because this guy is just proving he's an erratic mess.

miami_fan

11-02-2022, 09:15 PM

My son is 12 and has been begging for Discord and I have been fighting it. Seems like a lot of you have kids that age who have it. What made you ok with it?

Most of the kids my son talked to on Discord were kids he knew through gaming or sports. For him, Discord was just an off shoot for the gaming chat more often than not. Every so often, he would have issues with someone who was problematic but he has always been good about blocking people or logging off if they become overbearing. When I set it up for him initially, I blocked anything not sent to him by a friend and blocked all DMs.

JPhillips

11-03-2022, 06:24 AM

Brian Swartz

11-03-2022, 06:52 AM

Regarding TikTok, I would surmise that the percentage of users for whom privacy issues are a deal-breaker is quite small.

miami_fan

11-03-2022, 10:51 AM

It's all about monetizing porn.

This. He is just trying to tap into that OnlyFans money.

GrantDawg

11-03-2022, 02:58 PM

This. He is just trying to tap into that OnlyFans money.
And that at least isn't the worst idea to make his money back. There are porn creators on Twitter, I'm sure they wouldn't mind a new revenue stream.

It is the $8 for verification thing that is nonsensical. "Blue Checkmarks" are the main content drivers on Twitter. Most social media tries to pay those creators to drive more views and get more content. He is trying to make them pay for the privilege to provide content. That is backwards.

GrantDawg

11-03-2022, 03:00 PM

Regarding TikTok, I would surmise that the percentage of users for whom privacy issues are a deal-breaker is quite small.
It is what held me out for a long time. I finally caved because I figured if China wanted my information, they probably already got it. I might as well gets some laughs out of it.

Ksyrup

11-03-2022, 03:05 PM

And that at least isn't the worst idea to make his money back. There are porn creators on Twitter, I'm sure they wouldn't mind a new revenue stream.

It is the $8 for verification thing that is nonsensical. "Blue Checkmarks" are the main content drivers on Twitter. Most social media tries to pay those creators to drive more views and get more content. He is trying to make them pay for the privilege to provide content. That is backwards.

It's not just that. It's the original purpose of the blue checkmarks - it's for all of us to know who among the most popular brands, personalities, news people, etc., are real and who are fake. So selling blue checks to them is fine, I guess, if that's what they want to do, but there are only so many of them. You and I don't need a blue checkmark because it doesn't matter if I'm Ksyrup or some a-hole pretending to be Ksyrup on Twitter because I'm a nobody.

The way it's being positioned, it seems like more of a way for two distinct groups of "nobodies" to show the world who they support - Musk fanboys and Trump fanboys.

JonInMiddleGA

11-03-2022, 03:26 PM

"Blue Checkmarks" are the main content drivers on Twitter.

Maybe that's part of what could change.

I mean, a Twitterverse populated by fewer "celebrities" would sure as hell drive the collective IQ of the place up

Ksyrup

11-03-2022, 03:52 PM

Uh... no. If Twitter is anything, it's proof of the "better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool then open it and prove it." Just because some voices are amplified over others doesn't make them more or less stupid than the general populace.

GrantDawg

11-03-2022, 03:52 PM

Maybe that's part of what could change.

I mean, a Twitterverse populated by fewer "celebrities" would sure as hell drive the collective IQ of the place up
But drive the population down. That is not great if you want to make money. I mean, you could give IQ test if all you want is smart people, but you won't make any money doing it.

whomario

11-04-2022, 10:15 AM

Ksyrup

11-04-2022, 11:39 AM

This is promising. Read the thread, it gets worse...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What's left of Twitter's trust and safety team took less than a minute to determine that "shut it Jew" does not violate whatever the rules are now. <a href="https://t.co/vt9vXsqOLw">pic.twitter.com/vt9vXsqOLw</a></p>— Mike Rothschild (@rothschildmd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rothschildmd/status/1588564108848549888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

JonInMiddleGA

11-04-2022, 11:40 AM

But drive the population down. That is not great if you want to make money. I mean, you could give IQ test if all you want is smart people, but you won't make any money doing it.

Maybe it's a version of philanthropy, who knows with him.

Lathum

11-04-2022, 11:55 AM

We really are irrevocably broken...

cuervo72

11-04-2022, 02:52 PM

Yeah, this is going well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I'm sure advertisers will leap at the opportunity to be the corporate face of the next genocide. <a href="https://t.co/E2hrShukfi">https://t.co/E2hrShukfi</a></p>— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) <a href="https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1588618254490415104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Of course a good number of the replies to the ex-employee's thread are like "well what good did you do" and "why didn't you stop human trafficking and child porn" and leftist thisthat.

whomario

11-04-2022, 03:04 PM

Also gone: A group of employees whose reports about the algorithm amplified right wing personalities and the accessibility team.

He's pretty much gutting everything that contributed to at least the idea of a platform having agency and providing a good environment (or in his view: unnecessary woke stuff). His idea/plan literally is: Charge people, save costs, bank on the whole thing carrying itself without much input.

It's not at all surprising and i am kind of glad he couldn't even muster a couple weeks of keeping up the facade. This way i hope more people realize he never had any intention to do anything else than what many of the oh so evil leftists predicted he would do.

albionmoonlight

11-04-2022, 03:34 PM

If China told Musk “buy Twitter and destroy it or we’ll stop selling you the rare earths you need for Tesla,” would he be doing anything differently than what he’s currently doing?

JPhillips

11-04-2022, 04:02 PM

Elon has apparently demanded a billion in annual savings from infrastructure costs. lol

The question now is how little does Elon get when he sells. Will the total even start with a B?

albionmoonlight

11-04-2022, 04:39 PM

He would not sell it for that little. That would be admitting defeat. He would kill it out of spite rather than make a pittance on selling it if it really does crater in value to that extent.

RainMaker

11-04-2022, 05:40 PM

Regarding TikTok, I would surmise that the percentage of users for whom privacy issues are a deal-breaker is quite small.

For what it's worth, almost all social media companies sell to foreign governments. They just do it through intermediaries while it looks like TikTok does it direct.

RainMaker

11-04-2022, 06:10 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgukafLXgAY3Lo3?format=jpg&name=900x900

"Oh no, they actually consider the shit i said and say as some sort of hint and aren't enthralled by my half hearted public statements while i continue to make ludicrous tweets and fire half the staff, how dare they!"

https://media1.giphy.com/media/H9A8hsi0lzG2A/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b95226ce617c65cd885db385a434ea274aa91d7a232f&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

(Also: if you post this without the header you could play a good game of "Trump or Musk?" )

Well he's getting a crash course in capitalism. Running a business that doesn't rely on government handouts is a little different. Disney doesn't want ads for their new movie next to some guy posting about how we need to gas the Jews.

I don't think he was prepared to actually buy the company. Twitter called his bluff and then when he realized what a horrible deal it was for him, he thought he could litigate his way out of it.

The story about him asking all the programmers to print out the code they worked on over the past year and firing those who wrote the least is the best example of how ill-prepared he was and how little he knows about running the company. They'll be filing bankruptcy in the next 24 months.

Atocep

11-04-2022, 06:26 PM

Well he's getting a crash course in capitalism. Running a business that doesn't rely on government handouts is a little different. Disney doesn't want ads for their new movie next to some guy posting about how we need to gas the Jews.

I don't think he was prepared to actually buy the company. Twitter called his bluff and then when he realized what a horrible deal it was for him, he thought he could litigate his way out of it.

The story about him asking all the programmers to print out the code they worked on over the past year and firing those who wrote the least is the best example of how ill-prepared he was and how little he knows about running the company. They'll be filing bankruptcy in the next 24 months.

Not to mention his contest to see who works the hardest by forcing 84 hour work weeks while leaking that the plan is to lay of nearly half of his employees. That's the type of shit a bad manager does and almost always leads to losing your best employees because they'll have other options and motivation to leave. Waiting for him to use the "no one wants to work anymore" when they can't fill positions with qualified people.

RainMaker

11-04-2022, 06:57 PM

I thought the "who wrote the most lines of code" thing was hilarious. The people with the least are the one's working on the more difficult stuff or are just more efficient. You're basically firing your most talented coders.

Flasch186

11-04-2022, 07:53 PM

@rainmaker do you have a link to this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RainMaker

11-04-2022, 07:58 PM

There's some news stories about the printing of code out but this references one of the tweets about it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/mcmillen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mcmillen</a> has hit the nail on the head here.<br><br>Microsoft got rid of the notion of evaluating developers based on KLOCs (thousand of lines of code) decades ago.<br><br>It penalizes coders who solve problems creatively/efficiently/both using fewer lines of code than their counterparts. <a href="https://t.co/9G9wBv33TR">pic.twitter.com/9G9wBv33TR</a></p>— Geoff Glave (@GeoffGlave) <a href="https://twitter.com/GeoffGlave/status/1588645139068555264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-04-2022, 08:11 PM

If China told Musk “buy Twitter and destroy it or we’ll stop selling you the rare earths you need for Tesla,” would he be doing anything differently than what he’s currently doing?

Especially if they float him some of the financing. They get to kill it at a fraction of the cost and with a front man doing the killing.

SI

whomario

11-05-2022, 02:29 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">genius strategy: boycotting your customers <a href="https://t.co/AwVlk9AFam">pic.twitter.com/AwVlk9AFam</a></p>— tom, from myspace (@thetomzone) <a href="https://twitter.com/thetomzone/status/1588694969229115393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

11-05-2022, 02:48 AM

I think it makes a little more sense to post this here rather than the NBA thread, so ...

It's magical thinking that mis- and disiformation can be handled by debating it. Always much easier to make outlandish claims than dispute/correct them, always easier for those to be 'understood' than "well, it's complicated, here's the 10 reasons for this with background info".
And aside from all more obvious issues (like the whole "the lie is halfway round the world before ..." Thing) this, given finite ressources, effectively ensures that a ton of other important issues while the (often fabricated or embelished) issue chosen (!) by, say, the right wing claim industry (crt, trans-panic, caravans, free speech destroyed) dominates. It literally doesn't matter to them if they are right, they just need it to be talked about for their simple talking points to get broadcast and seep into peoples minds.

Some of the issues and possible strategies outlined here: Combining interventions to reduce the spread of viral misinformation | Nature Human Behaviour (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01388-6)

I think the problem is when you give people like Kyrie and Kanye platforms doe hate on social media,ext that's going to have a far larger impact on society than those museums. It's not like the people that agree with or are on the fence about stuff like this want to hear both sides or are going to go visit a museum to get the full story.

That's one of the issues with speech and social media. It's a massive platform to spread misinformation that we haven't been prepared to counter. Just allowing them to have a platform under the false pretense of free speech and hoping followers become more educated isn't working. If anything they're actively choosing to be less educated.

This interview, the paper it's about and the researchers (bak-coleman especially, who is also on twitter and talks about the Musk Situation: https://mobile.twitter.com/jbakcoleman/status/1588168134753910785 ) might interest you:

Why biologists like Carl Bergstrom are warning that social media is a risk to humanity - Vox (https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/recode/2021/6/26/22550981/carl-bergstrom-joe-bak-coleman-biologists-ecologists-social-media-risk-humanity-research-academics)

As someone with a media studies and communications background i found it really interesting to see it approached from a different direction.

Brian Swartz

11-05-2022, 03:01 AM

It's magical thinking that mis- and disiformation can be handled by debating it. Always much easier to make outlandish claims than dispute/correct them, always easier for those to be 'understood' than "well, it's complicated, here's the 10 reasons for this with background info".
And aside from all more obvious issues (like the whole "the lie is halfway round the world before ..." Thing) this, given finite ressources, effectively ensures that a ton of other important issues while the (often fabricated or embelished) issue chosen (!) by, say, the right wing claim industry (crt, trans-panic, caravans, free speech destroyed) dominates. It literally doesn't matter to them if they are right, they just need it to be talked about for their simple talking points to get broadcast and seep into peoples minds.

I agree with this, and also with having the discussion here rather than in the other thread. This is why I'm on the education/character side in terms of combating it. One analogy that I think it useful is how we train people to recognize counterfeit money. Teaching them to know all of the possible falsehoods is an endless and counterproductive rabbit-hole. Teaching them to know everything there is to know about what legal tender looks like, feels like, features of it, etc. allows recognition of fakes very quickly. Suspicion is immediately raised before you even discover what type of counterfeit it is, because you are so familiar with the real thing.

The authoritarian response is also possible - severe crack-downs on social media companies/platforms, strict guidelines on what may or may not be posted, etc. That effectively means the death of free speech; not that speech is being made illegal here, it's not technically that, but from a practical perspective if you can say approved things on the most-used platforms but cannot offer dissenting opinions or perspectives there, the entire point of free speech protections is lost and all you've done is substitute a different form of censorship.

The line in that link that we have no reason to believe good ideas will naturally rise to the top is something I every much agree with. I think social media generally promotes the opposite, but it promotes that because of who we are as people in society, because of our nature of looking for validation. The more marginalized a person is, the more likely they are to seek that validation, so those people tend to be over-represented on social media.

whomario

11-05-2022, 04:10 AM

The problem is that it is inherently hard to educate in a way that anticipates future matters. I also have a history degree so i definitely believe there's value in teaching in a way that highlights commonalities in past, current and future events. And teach how overarching issues impact each other.
But it's still difficult to do that, same as it's difficult to teach media literacy. Not to mention those same forces that want to push hateful rhetoric are also working to prevent this. It's neither surprising nor a secret that far right wing movements always try to essentially dumb down education (look at Florida, read what a guy like Rufo openly lays out) under the guise of making it concentrate on 'real' education, making it "more efficient" etc. Where possible they remove capacity or oportunity to teach about complex issues. Which social issues of all manner invariably are.

But even others aren't actually willing to prioritize education or other social institutions for fear of loosing their mandate by alienating a few too many fence-sitters. This is of course an issue the world over but it's no coincidence that it Looks to be magnified for the US due to it's political system on all levels and the way it's institutions are financed, regulated and staffed, especially at the top.

----------

Some ways to combat it for social media on a technical and company level are adressed in the nature paper in the sense that it demonstrates that this can at least somewhat be combatted with existing tools, which of course requires those in charge of platforms to want to do it AND society accepts that a platform simply can't be just a blank space that not just regulates itself but ideally sorts itself out organically without input from either the state/law NOR the company. What many on the right want is literally a digital space without oversight because they know they are going to come out ahead here due to 1) offering the simple story and 2) being more ruthless,.less caring (about others as well as due to making it into a game), whatever.
Those clamouring for a "digital town square" never acknowledge that an actual town square was and is of course a regulated space, regulated by laws and also, you know, those actually in charge of the town (as well as, say, trade organisations or other entities).

Musk just fired a lot of the people whose departments worked on this. in the same vein a lot of newspapers and networks have a long time ago been set on paths that make them less effective here (some was of course forced on them but not aided by the aforementioned refusal to acknowledge the relevance of digital discourse for all areas of life including the way news is consumed and shared for a long time). Which again comes down to ressources which again comes down to one group trying to withhold it (for example in the fight over Public Broadcasting, a bigger deal in Europe) AND frame any support, financial or regulatory, as improper and others thus hesitant to provide it.

As a result you get tragedies like the death of independent local newspapers (and in the US local TV or radio channels, which never was much of a thing over here where that space was occupied by regional public broadcasting instead) , another pillar of a sort of education that has been absolutely gutted in the last couple decades.

Silver Owl

11-05-2022, 07:05 AM

For people that have family and friends blocked on facebook because of political, religious or any other views, there is an app called SOCIAL FIXER (https://socialfixer.com/) that allows you to block individual posts with keywords that works pretty well.
I can still keep up with family without seeing all the political garbage.
I have zero affiliation with them other than as a user.

GrantDawg

11-05-2022, 07:55 AM

I want whomario to list the degrees he doesn't have. Seems that would be a short list.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 08:46 AM

Elon Musk definitely fits in with the snowflakes he seems to align himself with politically.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elon Musk cannot handle being properly schooled. A tragedy in three acts: <a href="https://t.co/MXSWQPWo2b">pic.twitter.com/MXSWQPWo2b</a></p>— Randi Mayem Singer (@rmayemsinger) <a href="https://twitter.com/rmayemsinger/status/1588663102798966785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

11-05-2022, 09:15 AM

I want whomario to list the degrees he doesn't have. Seems that would be a short list.

Same length as most everybody else who finishes University over here, X minus 2 ;) system usually requires you to register for a double degree bachelor right at the start with an option to ditch one for your Masters or take an entirely new one if it's close enough to either. "media studies and communication" is a close enough translation for one of the two ;)

sterlingice

11-05-2022, 09:56 AM

https://frinkiac.com/img/S04E17/1278776.jpg

"Smithers, I'm beginning to think that Elon Musk is not the brilliant tactician I thought he was"

SI

cuervo72

11-05-2022, 11:59 AM

And aside from all more obvious issues (like the whole "the lie is halfway round the world before ..." Thing) this, given finite ressources, effectively ensures that a ton of other important issues while the (often fabricated or embelished) issue chosen (!) by, say, the right wing claim industry (crt, trans-panic, caravans, free speech destroyed) dominates. It literally doesn't matter to them if they are right, they just need it to be talked about for their simple talking points to get broadcast and seep into peoples minds.

Man, I feel like I've seen this somewhere before.

GrantDawg

11-05-2022, 03:12 PM

The new blue checkmark thing started today. As far as I can tell they haven't removed the verified checkmark yet. I can't help but think once they do, the only thing blue checkmark is going to symbolize is accounts to avoid.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

QuikSand

11-05-2022, 03:38 PM

If paying Elon money becomes the principal way to reach the Twitter audience (i.e. they start burying content from non-paid accounts, in the name of crushing bots or whatever), that might prove to be a challenging proposition for a lot of us. I can afford a hundred bucks, but I might not be able to afford a public label as being on board with this asshole.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 03:46 PM

Apparently if you don't pay $8, an algorithm is going to suppress your tweets so that even followers can't see them in their replies.

If that's truly the case, goodbye Twitter.

GrantDawg

11-05-2022, 04:24 PM

That was my biggest fear. It will absolutely be the death of Twitter.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

JonInMiddleGA

11-05-2022, 04:26 PM

It will absolutely be the death of Twitter.

Given the state it was in, I'm not going to cry a whole lot of tears about that.

Aside from quick hits on breaking events, it was largely a cesspool.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 05:07 PM

Kodos

11-05-2022, 05:11 PM

I wouldn’t give Elon 1 cent. Luckily, I wasn’t on Twitter anyhow, so no loss.

JonInMiddleGA

11-05-2022, 05:11 PM

No, not if you used it correctly. Regardless of the medium, it is always wise to never read the comments. If my timeline skips over certain tweets to only show me blue check tweets and I have to seek out the rest, then fuck him - it will be FBs algorithm-based timeline all over again.

Where it immediately goes cesspool -- and reveals what a cesspool it has been -- is when you click on something trending.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 05:13 PM

That's why I basically stay within my curated follow list. When they start manipulating that, I'm out.

JonInMiddleGA

11-05-2022, 05:16 PM

That's why I basically stay within my curated follow list. When they start manipulating that, I'm out.

But you/me/us maintaining self-enforced seclusion doesn't change the existence of the cesspool.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 05:39 PM

JonInMiddleGA

11-05-2022, 05:45 PM

The world is a cesspool. Our existence in it doesn't change that either. It's all about your experience. It's not so much seclusion as having control over how much of the cesspool you want to see. Much of that is curation, but not all - you and I are still free to wade into the cesspool. I try not to, or when I do, I try to be as disciplined as possible and pull myself out before I get too sucked in.

We're not in any real disagreement at the micro / personal level, not that I can tell anyway.

Where we may differ is the responsibility to influence the existence (or at least depth) of the cesspool if we have an opportunity to make a significant difference.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 05:47 PM

What difference? By leaving?

This kind of shit is ridiculous. Some dude clowns on Elon and his account is restricted. Free speech, huh?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Comedy is now legal on Twitter <a href="https://t.co/jcMR6oLrX6">pic.twitter.com/jcMR6oLrX6</a></p>— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1589025263882735617?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

JonInMiddleGA

11-05-2022, 05:50 PM

What difference? By leaving?

I didn't mean me & you, I meant (basically) Elon.

I'd consider it a net gain to civilization if he simply shut the thing down tomorrow as opposed to it continuing in the lunatic realm it operated in.

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 06:00 PM

Eh, something similar will/would take its place. You can't save humanity from itself.

cuervo72

11-05-2022, 06:54 PM

So Devin Nunes' Cow can finally get verified, yes?

Ksyrup

11-05-2022, 07:07 PM

At this point, Elon is the "I want my $2" kid from Better Off Dead. $8 now with inflation, I guess.

Fidatelo

11-06-2022, 07:02 AM

I deactivated my Twitter account on Friday on word of the layoffs. Not that my dormant account matters, but if it adds to some overall count of people dissatisfied with the actions then I'll call that a win.

GrantDawg

11-06-2022, 07:53 AM

They have started calling back some of the people they laid off Friday asking them to return. It seems they laid off half the people they needed to implement the changes Musk wanted to make. Genius, indeed.

Ksyrup

11-06-2022, 10:27 AM

At some point, this has to affect Tesla stock, right? I don't pay much attention to Tesla news, but I assume he runs that with a decently tight ship as far as the public seeing how the sausage is made. So if all (or most) anyone sees is his management style as it relates to Twitter... yeesh.

Ksyrup

11-06-2022, 07:12 PM

I really enjoy the word chucklefuck, and it certainly fits Elon.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Huh. If only there were a surefire way to make sure Twitter users are who they say they are. Like “substantiated” accounts. A process of “corroboration,” maybe. Something like that. <a href="https://t.co/8mBTW1bp5R">https://t.co/8mBTW1bp5R</a></p>— andi zeisler (@andizeisler) <a href="https://twitter.com/andizeisler/status/1589414082595414016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 7, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

FREE SPEECH!

Atocep

11-06-2022, 07:14 PM

sterlingice

11-07-2022, 07:10 AM

This was pretty funny and actually does a decent 10K foot view of what crazy Musk got himself into and didn't realize. That said, it also assumes he's kindof acting in good faith and I think he still is just shotgun wedding this thing and is in way too deep.

Hey Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run The Content Moderation Learning Curve - Above the LawAbove the Law (https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/hey-elon-let-me-help-you-speed-run-the-content-moderation-learning-curve/)

SI

whomario

11-07-2022, 09:06 AM

I like that analogy. It also has definite substitute teacher/cool uncle tries making up rules vibes. But yeah, the most likely explanation might be simply him wanting to make his personal dream platform (By adding shit from various others, from what is essentially blog posts to long videos), assuming that enough others like it as well. (Only instead of doing it from scratch and over time he crams everything into a short time frame because it's not a garage hobbyhorse but a 44 billion company).

It's also the quintessential capitalist worldview in action: For him everything comes down to money. Not just earning it or spending it but the sheer existence being seen as the solution to structural problems. Bots? Money solves it. Pissed of big accounts? Pay them.

(One of the interesting things that set Twitter apart was that, while obviously people in a sense used it to make money, there was no direct payment for content and in essence it was more of a communications and messaging platform. Without having that forced personal element of Facebook and it's"friends").

Also, he's throwing a hissy fit at not being welcomed as the great saviour.

It's down 35% since he announced he was buying Twitter.

When is the inevitable "they cancel him! Let's all buy his product!" push coming or is buying electric cars a bridge too far for that?

whomario

11-09-2022, 01:39 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So far on this call, El*n says: <br><br>•We will ban impersonators and keep their $8<br>•Eventually impersonators will stop making accounts bc losing $ is a disincentive<br>•I have a lot of faith in humanity, most people are good<br><br>???</p>— Nandini Jammi (@nandoodles) <a href="https://twitter.com/nandoodles/status/1590409080673566722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Gets crazier in the thread

GrantDawg

11-09-2022, 01:58 PM

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Musk right now casually walking through his grand payments vision for Twitter:<br><br>Users could link their online bank account to Twitter, he says. Then the company will offer "extremely compelling money market account to get extremely high yield on your balance". Add debit cards etc</p>— Hannah Murphy (@MsHannahMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/MsHannahMurphy/status/1590413876021321728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

GrantDawg

11-09-2022, 01:59 PM

There is no chance I am "banking" with Twitter.

whomario

11-09-2022, 05:00 PM

So now it's literally all a blue check mark and only once you click on it it will either say it is verified because of it's 'properties' (being notable in this or that) of the person/entity or " is verified because it's subscribed to Twitter Blue".
Like, he does know how to look up what words mean? "maybe kinda sorta proven not to be a bot" is kind of a low bar to clear.

I mean, it'll propably be totally different tomorrow anyway given he seems to change shit every 5 minutes.

Ksyrup

11-10-2022, 09:28 AM

Not sure it's verified, but I see some activity on Twitter about it's CISO, chief privacy officer and chief compliance officer all resigning last night.

Losing is fine. Everything is fine.

HerRealName

11-10-2022, 09:37 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">According to messages shared in Twitter Slack, Twitter’s CISO, chief privacy office, and chief compliance officer all resigned last night.<br><br>An employee says it will be up to engineers to “self-certify compliance with FTC requirements and other laws.”</p>— Casey Newton (@CaseyNewton) <a href="https://twitter.com/CaseyNewton/status/1590724257608134657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I can't even imagine. I would be job searching hard if I were still employed there.

whomario

11-10-2022, 10:59 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okay twitter blue has been such a success I need to do a thread. Feel free to add to the ��on the great launch of this product <a href="https://t.co/cx1bEFp9Yn">pic.twitter.com/cx1bEFp9Yn</a></p>— Read Jackson Rising by @CooperationJXN (@JoshuaPHilll) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1590696859869536256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="qme" dir="ltr"> <a href="https://t.co/wXTlMuPrjV">pic.twitter.com/wXTlMuPrjV</a></p>— Patrick. (@NearandDistant) <a href="https://twitter.com/NearandDistant/status/1590702743592742913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

GrantDawg

11-10-2022, 12:16 PM

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SCOOP from <a href="https://twitter.com/alexeheath?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@alexeheath</a>: Twitter's chief privacy officer, chief compliance officer, and chief information security officer have all quit. Internal note warns that violating FTC privacy settlement could destroy the company but Elon doesn't seem to care. <a href="https://t.co/JLhugR9JvN">https://t.co/JLhugR9JvN</a> <a href="https://t.co/uyiPq6VmBx">pic.twitter.com/uyiPq6VmBx</a></p>— nilay patel (@reckless) <a href="https://twitter.com/reckless/status/1590727799480127490?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Ksyrup

11-10-2022, 12:38 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Twitter has verified Jesus Christ. <br><br>h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/Shayan86?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Shayan86</a> <a href="https://t.co/gj6aUuCECr">pic.twitter.com/gj6aUuCECr</a></p>— Donie O'Sullivan (@donie) <a href="https://twitter.com/donie/status/1590758268560777216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

JPhillips

11-10-2022, 12:41 PM

How long until Kirk Cameron cites this as proof that God is real?

Ksyrup

11-10-2022, 07:27 PM

Someone paid their $8, set up a fake TeslaReal account, and posted "A second Tesla has hit the World Trade Center."

I'm not sure Twitter is going to make it to 2023...

sterlingice

11-10-2022, 07:39 PM

I just have this picture in my head that he's in this abandoned cubicle farm, surrounded by desks that used to have people he fired last week. Musk comes across the only guy left on the floor and yells "FIX THIS FAKE USER PROBLEM", only for the guy to go "Sure, boss, but I don't know how - I just clean the floors here".

SI

Ksyrup

11-10-2022, 07:47 PM

In all seriousness, this is crazy.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elon Musk is doing an all hands with Twitter employees. They got a one hour notice and he showed up 15 minutes late.</p>— Zoë Schiffer (@ZoeSchiffer) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoeSchiffer/status/1590809573367382016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow. Elon Musk just told Twitter employees he’s not sure how much run rate the company has and “bankruptcy isn’t out of the question.”</p>— Zoë Schiffer (@ZoeSchiffer) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoeSchiffer/status/1590812793787518977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

flere-imsaho

11-10-2022, 07:50 PM

Some business genius, this guy.

GrantDawg

11-10-2022, 08:02 PM

How does a bankruptcy court treat a new company owner that files two weeks after the purchase mainly because of the debt he brought to the company?

Ksyrup

11-10-2022, 08:03 PM

Bone saws, activate!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Meanwhile, the Twitter buyout debt banks are trying to offload is going for 60 cents on the dollar, per scoop by my colleagues: <a href="https://t.co/2eGds1weUp">https://t.co/2eGds1weUp</a></p>— Sarah Frier (@sarahfrier) <a href="https://twitter.com/sarahfrier/status/1590827419346558976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

flere-imsaho

11-11-2022, 07:23 AM

How does a bankruptcy court treat a new company owner that files two weeks after the purchase mainly because of the debt he brought to the company?

Probably like any other bankruptcy, although this case (https://www.bankruptcylawinsights.com/2021/02/if-the-shoe-fits-defendants-in-nine-west-do-litigation-fail-to-convince-judge-to-dismiss-claims-for-breach-of-fiduciary-duty-and-recovery-of-fraudulent-transfers/) from the Southern District of New York shows a judge taking a very dim view towards these financial shenanigans.

In reality, IMO, there need to be laws against this kind of leveraged buyout when it's not even close to clear how the debt will realistically be serviced. These stupid financing decisions end up, as we've seen time and time again, costing lots and lots of people their jobs & livelihoods (if you have little sympathy for Twitter's highly-paid coders, spare a thought for the blue collar workers who service their many facilities).

GrantDawg

11-11-2022, 08:30 AM

The blue "blue" checkmarks that had gone white-grey recently have now turned bright blue. They have also turned off the ability to join "Twitter Blue in the US.

sterlingice

11-11-2022, 08:30 AM

Probably like any other bankruptcy, although this case (https://www.bankruptcylawinsights.com/2021/02/if-the-shoe-fits-defendants-in-nine-west-do-litigation-fail-to-convince-judge-to-dismiss-claims-for-breach-of-fiduciary-duty-and-recovery-of-fraudulent-transfers/) from the Southern District of New York shows a judge taking a very dim view towards these financial shenanigans.

In reality, IMO, there need to be laws against this kind of leveraged buyout when it's not even close to clear how the debt will realistically be serviced. These stupid financing decisions end up, as we've seen time and time again, costing lots and lots of people their jobs & livelihoods (if you have little sympathy for Twitter's highly-paid coders, spare a thought for the blue collar workers who service their many facilities).

And it's not like this is a new problem - leveraged buyouts were really in vogue in the 80s and 90s and ruined a lot of companies. I have to think there should be some accounting rules about not being able to use what you're buying as collateral and the company being bought not having to service the debt of the owners. But I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than I understand to actually stop this sort of crap.

SI

sterlingice

11-11-2022, 08:41 AM

Reddit has us covered for the Twitpocalpse

RealTwitterAccounts (https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTwitterAccounts/)

SI

GrantDawg

11-11-2022, 08:48 AM

And it's not like this is a new problem - leveraged buyouts were really in vogue in the 80s and 90s and ruined a lot of companies. I have to think there should be some accounting rules about not being able to use what you're buying as collateral and the company being bought not having to service the debt of the owners. But I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than I understand to actually stop this sort of crap.

SI
That is impossible and really not even reasonable. Every mortgage and car loan uses the item purchased as collateral. Banks do that on cars knowing they could not possibly make up the loss if the buyer never makes a payment on that car.

I do call into question the reasoning of the banks on the Twitter loan. They loaned this money and immediately started trying to sell off the debt at less than the value loaned. How does that make sense? They are offering not two weeks later at 60% value and can't find takers. How does everyone involved not immediately lose their jobs?

NobodyHere

11-11-2022, 08:49 AM

Reddit has us covered for the Twitpocalpse

RealTwitterAccounts (https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTwitterAccounts/)

SI

That's Gold Jerry, Gold!

sterlingice

11-11-2022, 08:53 AM

That's Gold Jerry, Gold!

Saw this on Reddit somewhere (paraphrased): "Remember when we had to use Photoshop to make these jokes? Now it just costs $8"

SI

Ksyrup

11-11-2022, 10:07 AM

I added that script to Chrome that shows you who is actually verified and who just paid $8 and it's very helpful. It's like x-ray vision.

flere-imsaho

11-11-2022, 10:13 AM

That is impossible and really not even reasonable. Every mortgage and car loan uses the item purchased as collateral. Banks do that on cars knowing they could not possibly make up the loss if the buyer never makes a payment on that car.

But, to use that analogy, banks making the car loans have a reasonable expectation (based on your financial information) that you will, tempered with their own statistics on defaults from your cohort.

In the case I linked the judge pointed out that the numbers didn't add up from the start. It would have taken a series of business miracles for the debt to be serviced. From the moment the deal was signed it was a foregone conclusion that the company would go bankrupt after the asset stripping was done.

I do call into question the reasoning of the banks on the Twitter loan. They loaned this money and immediately started trying to sell off the debt at less than the value loaned. How does that make sense? They are offering not two weeks later at 60% value and can't find takers. How does everyone involved not immediately lose their jobs?

We're back to mortgage defaults, CDOs, and 2008 all over again. The reason the banks are fine going through this are (and, again, it's part of the case I linked above and the judge's castigation of the lenders):

1. The banks know they can offload a certain portion of the debt to rubes (Twitter's implosion happening so quickly has clearly hampered this, but it was absolutely part of the original strategy).

2. There's potential upside that could have materialized.

3. Losses for banks, as long as they're not existentially ruinious, are actually beneficial from a tax avoidance standpoint, especially since you can carry those losses, year-over-year, until you need them (e.g. to offset a windfall year).

Don't get me wrong, some people are going to lose their jobs, but as the years since 2008 have shown, there's simply not enough regulatory disincentive against this risky practices, and importantly the people who get hurt aren't those involved in the transactions, they're the people who lose their jobs due to bankruptcies (either directly or indirectly - e.g. contracted cafeteria staff, janitors, etc...).

There's a real, tangible societal harm to allowing this behavior to continue.

sterlingice

11-11-2022, 12:54 PM

I think Twitter is showing to be a good counterexample of "I don't give a damn what you say about me, just so you spell my name right."

SI

Lathum

11-11-2022, 12:57 PM

Eli Lily may destroy Musk and Twitter.

whomario

11-11-2022, 02:28 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Update: The Twitter wildfire is at 44 billion acres and 0% contained.</p>— Washington State Dept. of Natural Resources (@waDNR) <a href="https://twitter.com/waDNR/status/1591090938990198784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ksyrup

11-11-2022, 02:33 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">$44 billion Twitter ✅ <a href="https://t.co/65inksoSDq">pic.twitter.com/65inksoSDq</a></p>— 🦃🇺🇦 Douglas M. Charles (blue checkmark)🏳️‍🌈🍂 (@DouglasMCharles) <a href="https://twitter.com/DouglasMCharles/status/1591167101867552768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mota

11-11-2022, 02:37 PM

Eli Lily may destroy Musk and Twitter.

Oh my, their stocks have dropped 5% overnight because the "insulin is now free" fake tweet. I sense a lawsuit coming.

RainMaker

11-11-2022, 03:15 PM

I do call into question the reasoning of the banks on the Twitter loan. They loaned this money and immediately started trying to sell off the debt at less than the value loaned. How does that make sense? They are offering not two weeks later at 60% value and can't find takers. How does everyone involved not immediately lose their jobs?

In fairness, he's done quite a bit in 2 weeks to destroy the value of the company. The Paul Pelosi tweet probably sunk the company by itself.

A lot of the financing was put together when he bought the company earlier in the year. Things have changed since then (recession fears, high interest rates).

The Saudis and Chinese on the other hand just wanted access to Twitter to root out dissidents. I don't think they care much about the actual return on investment.

miami_fan

11-11-2022, 03:21 PM

Oh my, their stocks have dropped 5% overnight because the "insulin is now free" fake tweet. I sense a lawsuit coming.

Is Eli Lily anti free speech?

RainMaker

11-11-2022, 05:06 PM

Reports are they sold a little over 100,000 Twitter Blue subscriptions. So all that for about a million dollars.

Ksyrup

11-11-2022, 05:15 PM

The Saudis and Chinese on the other hand just wanted access to Twitter to root out dissidents. I don't think they care much about the actual return on investment.

I assume the value for them would only hold if Twitter still, uh, exists...!

Lathum

11-12-2022, 11:04 AM

https://twitter.com/aleshadalin/status/1591217664441352194?s=46&t=G6CQVylun1uYddi3FULu0g

Kodos

11-12-2022, 12:13 PM

That was good!

albionmoonlight

11-14-2022, 12:17 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Part of today will be turning off the “microservices” bloatware. Less than 20% are actually needed for Twitter to work!</p>— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) <a href="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592177471654604800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Years ago, I had a friend whose mom would periodically "clean up" her computer to get it to run faster. She would do this by going through and just manually deleting files that she did not recognize. This, of course, led to her computer ceasing to function because some of those seemingly pointless files were actually necessary to keep the machine running.

Anyway, food for thought.

whomario

11-14-2022, 12:33 PM

Saw a Twitter employee go to town on this issue, going out in a blaze of glory. Also, i can't believe how fervently random people will defend a billionaire against being corrected.

sterlingice

11-14-2022, 01:08 PM

"I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production"

SI

sterlingice

11-14-2022, 01:16 PM

Years ago, I had a friend whose mom would periodically "clean up" her computer to get it to run faster. She would do this by going through and just manually deleting files that she did not recognize. This, of course, led to her computer ceasing to function because some of those seemingly pointless files were actually necessary to keep the machine running.

Anyway, food for thought.

I used to be that guy. You learn a lot about troubleshooting when you start randomly breaking stuff

SI
<iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe>

albionmoonlight

11-14-2022, 01:39 PM

I'm gonna stop piling on, but this really is gobsmacking.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elon is just demanding random people on his website tell him how it works now <a href="https://t.co/k3jEG9DVZz">pic.twitter.com/k3jEG9DVZz</a></p>— worms cited (@christapeterso) <a href="https://twitter.com/christapeterso/status/1592215847358996485?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

albionmoonlight

11-14-2022, 01:46 PM

I used to be that guy. You learn a lot about troubleshooting when you start randomly breaking stuff

SI
<iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe>

You learned a lot. She got my friend to come in and reinstall Windows :lol:

whomario

11-15-2022, 02:42 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the mentions of a verified murderer cool <a href="https://t.co/e2c1Ohb0D1">pic.twitter.com/e2c1Ohb0D1</a></p>— Aaron Stewart-Ahn (@somebadideas) <a href="https://twitter.com/somebadideas/status/1592250681058119680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Responding to a 'verified' user named FBIPantyRaid alerting him to the plight of Rittenhouse just adds to the absurdity.

RainMaker

11-15-2022, 11:58 AM

Ksyrup

11-15-2022, 12:12 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is perfect <a href="https://t.co/29ZEa56ycA">pic.twitter.com/29ZEa56ycA</a></p>— Megs (@the_meghaning) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_meghaning/status/1592505089083998209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-15-2022, 10:48 PM

Sure, it's not about Twitter, but how about FB?

Facebook fact-checkers will stop checking Trump after presidential bid announcement | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/politics/facebook-fact-check-donald-trump/index.html)

The memo noted that “political speech is ineligible for fact-checking. This includes the words a politician says as well as photo, video, or other content that is clearly labeled as created by the politician or their campaign.”

Somehow politicians are immune from fact checking. For... reasons?

SI

Kodos

11-16-2022, 07:09 AM

They didn’t want to hire the amount of people needed to fact check The Liar.

sterlingice

11-16-2022, 09:34 AM

They didn’t want to hire the amount of people needed to fact check The Liar.

"Good news: We just laid off 11K people from the Meta project. Bad news: we had to rehire them all back to fact check TFG"

SI

flere-imsaho

11-16-2022, 10:44 AM

Hearts & minds, people....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhr5owsXEAEcB76?format=jpg&name=small

HerRealName

11-16-2022, 11:11 AM

Hearts & minds, people....

What type of person would click on 'Yes'? You could accidentally hurt Musk's feelings next week and get fired anyway.

CrimsonFox

11-16-2022, 11:32 AM

Coming soon.....TWITTER...IN....SPACE-space-sapce-space-space...

Lathum

11-16-2022, 11:35 AM

This seems like a great way to attract young talent. Who wants to bring their dog to work when you can work sweat shop hours instead.

albionmoonlight

11-16-2022, 11:47 AM

Doesn't this just mean that the talented people (i.e. the ones best able to get a new job) will take three months pay and leave and the less talented people will stay?

sterlingice

11-16-2022, 11:52 AM

Tell me you didn't understand that you bought a social media company and a user base that's worth billions without telling me.

SI

whomario

11-16-2022, 12:19 PM

He's doing what Trump did: Weed out anybody qualified and critical (often going Hand in Hand) and elevating sycophants and those that are fatuated with some idea of him or simply desperate enough to let themselves be abused. Those that need these jobs are the the big loosers here.

flere-imsaho

11-16-2022, 02:16 PM

Doesn't this just mean that the talented people (i.e. the ones best able to get a new job) will take three months pay and leave and the less talented people will stay?

Yes, although I'm sure some talented people who can't afford to lose their job (e.g. can't have a break in health insurance, visa is tied to Twitter, are in a tough financial situation) will also stay.

The problem, I would imagine, is that desperate and/or sycophantic are indistinguishable from talented to Musk. Note how he decided to fire people who wrote less code than others, not understanding that the truly talented people write less code because a) they're more efficient and/or b) they're working on more thorny issues which require more thinking and less coding.

flere-imsaho

11-16-2022, 02:17 PM

What type of person would click on 'Yes'? You could accidentally hurt Musk's feelings next week and get fired anyway.

If my company did this, I'd probably click "yes" since I'm in a comfortable financial situation and don't have a worry about finding a new job. I'd then see how little I could do before getting fired, just for the lulz.

albionmoonlight

11-16-2022, 02:30 PM

If my company did this, I'd probably click "yes" since I'm in a comfortable financial situation and don't have a worry about finding a new job. I'd then see how little I could do before getting fired, just for the lulz.

I knew a guy who worked for a famously sweatshop-like law firm. He had a co-worker who decided he had had enough. But instead of quitting, he just kept turning down work from the partners, telling them he was too busy on a project from some other partner, etc.

And because (at least at the time) the bosses didn't look holistically at one's hours until the end of the year, he basically pulled down a big law firm salary for a year while pretty much doing nothing.

albionmoonlight

11-16-2022, 02:32 PM

dola:

I suspect that one could hang around Twitter/Tesla for a while doing very little work as long as you randomly sent out messages at, like, 4AM and made sure Elon was aware that you were "working" then and publicly defended/fanboyed him on Twitter and in staff meetings, etc.

He'd probably promote you several times over people who were actually working.

sterlingice

11-16-2022, 02:33 PM

If my company did this, I'd probably click "yes" since I'm in a comfortable financial situation and don't have a worry about finding a new job. I'd then see how little I could do before getting fired, just for the lulz.

How about if, up until a couple of months ago, you really liked your job at Twitter and this was your primary income that you needed to live. If I were in those shoes, I'd be doing some calculus with my wife of:

1) Do I think I can survive at a company that fires people on a whim even more than normal and has stated a goal to get rid of 75% of the workforce is is only halfway there? Meanwhile, my working conditions got substantially worse and it's like working at a startup without the lure of startup stock.
2) Do I think I can hang on more than 3 months in my full time job basically becoming "job hunter"? It sounds like management and middle management are already decimated so you might just be the only guy coming into your floor in the office. Whenever anyone is around, make it look like you're doing work because there may not be anyone anymore who even knows what your deliverables look like. The rest of the time, just be looking for a job.
3) Is the 3 months severance the best offer? Take 3 months pay and use it to look for a job. You weren't going to survive new "hardcore" Twitter so take what you can get and move on with your life.

I think, for a lot of people, #3 might be the best option. There's some chatter on Twitter and Reddit that this is an attempt to force out anyone local and basically subsist on slave H1-B labor. But that's probably a bit overstated since estimates are that they only had about 10% of their labor with H1-Bs (which is still super high): Twitter And Other Tech Layoffs Raise H-1B Visa Employment Issues (https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2022/11/04/twitter-and-other-tech-layoffs-raise-h-1b-visa-employment-issues/)

SI

Mota

11-16-2022, 09:26 PM

Ksyrup

11-16-2022, 09:34 PM

Yep, I'd take #3.

sterlingice

11-17-2022, 07:38 AM

It's pretty ridiculous! Elon believes that he "owns" each of these employees, apparently. That's not a good look. But people still defend him online, it's crazy!

And Sterlingice, you are 100% correct about the startup comment. Sure it's a lot easier to dedicate your entire life and forget about sleep when you are the owner (or part owner) and those improvements directly affect your net worth. For an employee who is making a modest salary, why should they completely abandon their personal life, and also likely cause relationships and marriages to end , just to make Elon more money?

Elon wears his work ethic as a badge of honor, meanwhile he has 10 kids of which he has very little relationship with.

I don't know this about Musk, but there are a bunch of CEOs and other C-suite who talk a big game about work ethic and are completely full of it, too. Sure, they'll send out emails at 10pm to get that power trip and because they have no social life but they'll also be found at the golf course or traveling on the company dime with minimal company returns at conferences or "taking tours of company plants".

SI

whomario

11-17-2022, 11:10 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A classic <a href="https://t.co/RM0EvQK0jw">pic.twitter.com/RM0EvQK0jw</a></p>— Antonio Djigo (@brownio_) <a href="https://twitter.com/brownio_/status/1593204883901288448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 17, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

11-17-2022, 02:39 PM

On the other hand i am pretty sure that this is not really about making money. Maybe a bit about not loosing too much for what is a hobbyhorse/cause for him but that's it. Even the 8$ thing is going to be less about money but about what it (including the fact it costs) does. It's pretty clear how the demographics of those buying this privileged access skew and given what features are planned to be associated with the subscription it's pretty evident where this is headed.

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 02:58 PM

If all I'm going to see are posts and even replies from people who have paid... fuck it, I'm out. It's like FB's algorithm except substituting forcing me to view posts from a bunch of largely unknown idiots who paid for verification for forcing me to view posts from a bunch of idiots I kind of or used to know who the algorithm thinks are my best friends.

GrantDawg

11-17-2022, 06:12 PM

All Twitter offices have just shut their doors, and all access cards have been suspended. They said to expect them to reopen Nov. 21st. That doesn't sound promising.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Edward64

11-17-2022, 06:22 PM

Guess they won't show up in the Fortune's 2023 Best Companies to Work For

GrantDawg

11-17-2022, 06:34 PM

The whole SRE team quit. According to one source the whole company only has 295 employees left. Total.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 06:38 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tired: No more WFH, everyone get back to the Office or resign.<br>Wired: Sorry folks, Office’s closed. Moose out front shoulda told ya. <a href="https://t.co/PKuJ0plZl4">https://t.co/PKuJ0plZl4</a></p>— Chris Krebs (@C_C_Krebs) <a href="https://twitter.com/C_C_Krebs/status/1593402104848195584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Edward64

11-17-2022, 06:46 PM

Wonder how bankruptcy (or Chapter 11) will play out

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 06:51 PM

So far the other options are not good, IMO. Mastodon makes no sense - join a server in one of these 20 topics you have no interest in, and oh, to see anyone else, you need to switch servers to meet people in another topic you have no interest in. And Counter.Social may just be too small - I've searched certain people and topics and found no one to follow to start compiling a timeline. And apparently for mobile access, you have to use the Mastodon app...?

I may just go back to FB, start a fresh profile, and only follow groups and musicians/celebs I am interested in. In other words, bring back MySpace, Tom!

GrantDawg

11-17-2022, 07:50 PM

It really has a "last day of school" vibe on Twitter right now.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 08:16 PM

<blockquote class="twitte<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We’re finally going to see a Musk product in self-driving mode.</p>— Justin Wolfers (@JustinWolfers) <a href="https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/1593417193865330688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 08:19 PM

I hope this is true... but you know, parody/reality, it's all the same thing on Twitter right now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was laid off from Twitter this afternoon. I was in charge of managing badge access to Twitter offices. <br><br>Elon just called me and asked if I could come back to help them regain access to HQ as they shut off all badges and accidentally locked themselves out.</p>— Alex Cohen (@anothercohen) <a href="https://twitter.com/anothercohen/status/1593404311832338442?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Edward64

11-17-2022, 08:27 PM

Hah, that is great!

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 08:55 PM

It really has a "last day of school" vibe on Twitter right now.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I just saw a tweet that said - I wish we could sign each other's yearbooks.

Ksyrup

11-17-2022, 08:58 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Someone is projecting multiple messages onto Twitter headquarters building in SF from a neighboring building. <a href="https://t.co/VuFqLvDyxT">pic.twitter.com/VuFqLvDyxT</a></p>— Gia Vang (@Gia_Vang) <a href="https://twitter.com/Gia_Vang/status/1593419950693052418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-17-2022, 09:14 PM

I hope this is true... but you know, parody/reality, it's all the same thing on Twitter right now.

<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 507px; height: 433px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1593404311832338442&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com%2Ffofc%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3384352&sessionId=f63e313671af008aa3e91e171a29558a3f557efe&theme=light&widgetsVersion=a3525f077c700%3A1667415560940&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1593404311832338442" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Considering the guy says he works for another company in his profile, I'm guessing not true. But who knows these days

SI
<iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe>

albionmoonlight

11-18-2022, 06:49 AM

I am in that group that really likes Twitter and the community I have there. I don't want it to go away, but if it does, I'll find something else online and/or in real life to replace it. I'm a middle-aged White American male who likes sports. There are lots of places for me to fit in in the world.

But I am struck/touched by how many people in the trans community, the disability community, etc. are really really upset about this. Apparently twitter really is/was a place for marginalized people to find community/support/belonging and there is not some ready-made substitute out there if it goes away.

Ksyrup

11-18-2022, 07:23 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ex-Twitter employees pitching investors next week. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RIPTwitter?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RIPTwitter</a> <a href="https://t.co/aQe1Zpl2GT">pic.twitter.com/aQe1Zpl2GT</a></p>— Pete Haas (@dimeford) <a href="https://twitter.com/dimeford/status/1593410832490168320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Edward64

11-18-2022, 07:26 AM

Great idea. Maybe a billionaire(s) will pick up the talent and create a viable competitor?

Ksyrup

11-18-2022, 07:56 AM

What a tool!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As <a href="https://twitter.com/dellcam?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dellcam</a> discovered, Twitter seems to be stopping users from posting the URL for mastodon in tweets. I just tried it and got this message <a href="https://t.co/xTa0zq9yCP">pic.twitter.com/xTa0zq9yCP</a></p>— David Gilbert (@daithaigilbert) <a href="https://twitter.com/daithaigilbert/status/1593597825547280384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

HerRealName

11-18-2022, 09:33 AM

Great idea. Maybe a billionaire(s) will pick up the talent and create a viable competitor?

Employee Co-op initially funded by the public would be the only way to go. Provide a public good and tax the billionaires into millionaires to fund it.

albionmoonlight

11-18-2022, 09:36 AM

QuikSand

11-18-2022, 11:22 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This wasn't just a hell site, it was a hell home</p>— heather (@lollyrots) <a href="https://twitter.com/lollyrots/status/1593409151497109507?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

GrantDawg

11-18-2022, 11:42 AM

Another insider the email said if you to fly to SF, then do it...
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: Email from Elon to the engineering team: "Anyone who can actually write software, please report to the 10th floor at 2pm today. Before doing so, please email me a bullet point summary of what your code commits have achieved in the past 6 months" 1/</p>— Zoë Schiffer (@ZoeSchiffer) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoeSchiffer/status/1593649356661436417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Ksyrup

11-18-2022, 12:22 PM

From that thread, this seems to sum it up:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“We regret any inconvenience the sudden cabin movement might have caused, this is due to periodic air pockets we encountered, there’s no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you enjoy the rest of your flight… By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?”</p>— Jolly (@jolly1766) <a href="https://twitter.com/jolly1766/status/1593654402178551810?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-18-2022, 12:35 PM

Another insider the email said if you to fly to SF, then do it...
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 507px; height: 385px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1593649356661436417&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com%2Ffofc%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3384403&sessionId=c836c2aee9f32c2c0ba84338a850cd1887784063&theme=light&widgetsVersion=a3525f077c700%3A1667415560940&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1593649356661436417" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

My favorite is this one. Like if I worked for Twitter, I'm not sure what I'd be doing right now.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: In an email for remote Twitter engineers, Elon Musk says he wants to speak to people on video ("only those who cannot physically get to Twitter HQ are excused") but "if possible, I would encourage you to fly to SF to present in person." He'll be at the office until midnight.</p>— Zoë Schiffer (@ZoeSchiffer) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoeSchiffer/status/1593665774744350721?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Like do you really want to work for this boss? And what if you don't just eat a $500+ plane ticket to try and woo for whatever crap "hardcore" job where you can just be laid off tomorrow anyway?

SI
<iframe scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.644279d1635fd969e87af94a98bd232b.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.operationsports.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe" frameborder="0"></iframe>

sterlingice

11-18-2022, 12:52 PM

This thread just warms my cold, black sysadmin heart

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I've seen a lot of people asking "why does everyone think Twitter is doomed?"<br><br>As an SRE and sysadmin with 10+ years of industry experience, I wanted to write up a few scenarios that are real threats to the integrity of the bird site over the coming weeks.</p>— Mosquito Capital (@MosquitoCapital) <a href="https://twitter.com/MosquitoCapital/status/1593541177965678592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

SI

albionmoonlight

11-18-2022, 01:01 PM

Saudi Arabia, an anti-democratic oil-dependent nation state, lent Musk money so that he could destroy Twitter as an engine for dissent and democratic engagement and, in the process, severely damage the reputation of a major electric car company.

Has to be one of the smartest loans in modern times.

GrantDawg

11-18-2022, 01:28 PM

whomario

11-23-2022, 08:55 AM

Turns out acting like a high strung sociopathic asshole, firing and treating employees in humiliating ways and openly courting white nationalists and election deniers as well as posting memes straight out of a 13 year olds mind while furthering rape culture and bullying is not in fact seen as a guarantee for continued business success (especially if that product is in competition with one that the same people he is now courting prefer and is predominantly bought by people that increasingly think he's a dangerous lunatic).

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good morning. <br><br>Elno’s fringe right clown show ��continues to tank the Tesla stock price, the thing that gives him power.<br><br>I thought the bleeding would stop when the stock price was HALVED. Instead, it’s plummeting to $150. <br><br>Here’s what you need to know. <a href="https://t.co/Mn3DTX1gws">pic.twitter.com/Mn3DTX1gws</a></p>— Brianna Wu (@BriannaWu) <a href="https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1595389001527361537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ksyrup

11-23-2022, 09:04 AM

Kodos

11-23-2022, 09:29 AM

Also, who wants to give this guy any money?

Brian Swartz

11-23-2022, 10:01 AM

If you were an ultra-rich celebrity and/or business mogul, you'd have such a leg up on the other ultra-rich if you just managed to keep a couple people close to you who were not yes men.

If you had someone who could talk you out of your stupidest ideas before you did them, you would just dominate the famous rich person sphere.

The problem with this is, sometimes the ultra-rich get that way by doing something conventional wisdom thinks is stupid, but actually was brilliant. People who are particularly low in risk-aversion can occasionally accomplish fantastic things in between the usually not as well known and more common failures, but to do that they have to be willing to not listen to conventional wisdom. If they did, they would be talked out of not just their bad ideas, but also their great ones.

HerRealName

11-23-2022, 10:05 AM

I have seriously considered getting an EV or at least a hybrid in a 2-3 years when I'll be ready for a new car, but Tesla is off the list for me, in any way. It's less political and more management. I am not trusting my life to the kind of asshole who fired entire groups of employees and requires people to show up at his office in hours notice to kow how to one person.

Same here - I'm leaning towards a hybrid though. I just saw a Rivian truck this morning and did a walk around it. It was really nice looking but I'm afraid to even look up the price.

I completely agree on the Tesla. I saw somewhere a comment that Tesla owners have to be pissed off because they accidentally bought a $50K MAGA hat and thought it was funny.

Ksyrup

11-23-2022, 11:47 AM

The worst part is that I assume many of them are on the liberal side as early EV adopters, living in blue country.

Kodos

11-23-2022, 11:51 AM

The worst part is that I assume many of them are on the liberal side as early EV adopters, living in blue country.

That would describe my brother. He is pretty liberal, and has a Model 3.

cuervo72

11-23-2022, 07:34 PM

Elon does seem to have a lot of fanboys.

https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1595574671457792000

cuervo72

11-23-2022, 07:36 PM

Explains a lot of Trump's support though, I guess. I am amazed that so many people think that you have to be rich to be smart, and vice-versa.

Ksyrup

11-23-2022, 09:46 PM

This is some pretty interesting insight.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is *exactly* as I imagined, and provides the most straightforward explanation for anyone still trying to grasp at complicated theories on how the "SpaceX genius" could possibly be so bad at this. <a href="https://t.co/gRAgBgCPo7">https://t.co/gRAgBgCPo7</a> <a href="https://t.co/b2PGwhQmH7">pic.twitter.com/b2PGwhQmH7</a></p>— Rob Sheridan (Parody) (@rob_sheridan) <a href="https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status/1595319316249186304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

sterlingice

11-24-2022, 11:36 PM

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595869526469533701

Musk is now playing the role of William Atherton, shutting off the containment unit for Twitter, and letting all banned accounts back in (with a couple of exceptions).

Of course, he decided this using super scientific Twitter polls, months after he accused Twitter of having millions of bots in an effort to get out of buying it

SI

Mota

11-25-2022, 07:15 AM

sterlingice

11-25-2022, 09:28 AM

Or all the talk about people having to manage Trump in the White House

SI

whomario

11-29-2022, 01:58 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Elon reinstated Brett Stevens who previously praised the mass murder of 77 people in Norway by Anders Breivik. Now he's advocating for genocidal policies and forced removal of ethnic groups. This is the free speech Elon wants. <a href="https://t.co/IWoDzJOu1W">pic.twitter.com/IWoDzJOu1W</a></p>— Alejandra Caraballo (@Esqueer_) <a href="https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1597430993161719809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ghost Econ

11-29-2022, 05:53 AM

albionmoonlight

11-29-2022, 06:48 AM

Ksyrup

11-29-2022, 06:56 AM

I made an account over at Post. It's in Beta so it's like a left-leaning, partially functional Twitter. I hope it grows and attracts more than just anti-Trump/Elon types but obviously at this moment, that's the impetus for people gravitating to it. I need more news/sports/music/comedy/randomness in my feed for it to feel like a truly well-rounded social media experience. But I'm going to stick around there for awhile and attempt to wean myself off Twitter (as best I can).

albionmoonlight

11-29-2022, 07:04 AM

I'm on Mastodon, and it is fine. The news/politics folks seem to be migrating over there. But I miss the sports folks.

And, I think that Mastodon's great strength--no ads and no algorithms and no owner and no profit motivation--will also cap it out. It is simply less engaging, to me, than a site with algorithms designed to keep me engaged (go figure).

I see it kind of like the local farmer's co-op. It is great in theory. And you enjoy going there for a change of pace. And you feel good inside for supporting something good. And you even tell yourself "Let's just shop here from now on."

But you still somehow finding yourself back at Walmart the next weekend.

Ksyrup

11-29-2022, 07:14 AM

Exactly. Sports and other entertainment is missing, but I hope that's just because the vast majority of early adapters are those more inclined to politics given the Elon situation.

My "Plan B" is to strip out any politics from Twitter and just let it be mainly a sports/entertainment feed. But that's a lot of work. I've also considered creating a brand new FB account and just subscribing to the 8-10 groups I used to enjoy. I do miss the inside info and group discussions about certain interests.

Ghost Econ

11-29-2022, 07:21 AM

My "Plan B" is to strip out any politics from Twitter and just let it be mainly a sports/entertainment feed. But that's a lot of work. I've also considered creating a brand new FB account and just subscribing to the 8-10 groups I used to enjoy. I do miss the inside info and group discussions about certain interests.

I literally do that on Twitter, only follow sports stuff and don't engage with right wing Twitter. It doesn't matter anymore. I even told it not to show Elon Musk, Big & Rich, etc. tweets and it still finds different ways to put them in my feed (i.e. business news, celebrities, etc).

Similar with Facebook. I literally am only friends with family and a few friends but damned if I can see what their up to without wading through sponcon. I checked today, literally had the following sequence: 2 ads, post, 5 ads, 2 posts, 4 ads, post, 4 ads. Gave up.

Mota

11-29-2022, 07:28 AM

I'm not sure what is worse:

Trying to scroll Facebook with 90% ads just to see what my cousins are up to; or

Trying to scroll Twitter to see sports updates but intead seeing 90% of posts being rando conservative celebrities talking about pedophilia.

Social media is dead.

Yeah, I've noticed that too with Facebook. More and more ads, and things "suggested for me". Also more of these ads are now just social media influencers peddling stuff to us, I guess it's more profitable to pay someone in free goods these days to produce our advertising content.

sterlingice

11-29-2022, 08:33 AM

Good lord the phone app is awful - it's like what Ghost Econ described - it's literally 2-3+ ads for every post. It motivates me to stop scrolling real fast and just switch over to Reddit

SI

bhlloy

11-29-2022, 09:01 AM

Facebook is something else with ads - I can’t imagine how low value those ad spots are, but my feed is literally garbage with a mix of;
- Clickbaity sites - you know the ones “You won’t believe this happened on the set of Jaws” with the payoff to the text hidden so they want you to click on the pic which takes you to their shitty site
- Australian rugby news (zero interest or relevance to me but I may have once clicked on an article that is still in their algorithm somewhere)
- The occasional local ad (they finally managed to update my location to the right country/city a few months ago but it’s still garbage - food delivery for places 15/20 miles away that wouldn’t deliver to me anyway and the like)

You wonder at what scale anybody is making any money out of this shit, the expected ROI on me ever clicking any of that stuff is negative, but I guess at some step in the chain people are making money? If it wasn’t for one hobby group that I regularly use and is a good group of people I’d ditch the platform entirely.

cuervo72

11-29-2022, 09:11 AM

Ad-wise, I used to get a lot of underwear ads. Women's underwear. Now it seems to have moved to bras (thirdlove). I do not know why, but I am not complaining. (Well, a return of some ass shots wouldn't be unwelcomed.)

bhlloy

11-29-2022, 09:24 AM

You know why

Mota

11-29-2022, 09:48 AM

Kodos

11-29-2022, 10:42 AM

I rarely ever scroll on Facebook. And I only go to it via a browser. I look in my alarm bell (whatever it is called) and pick out the items of interest. Eventually, the algorithm figures out who I am actually interested in, and shows me mostly their posts.

GrantDawg

11-29-2022, 12:39 PM

This board is the last true social media site for me. Not even kidding.
It is by far my favorite as well.

cuervo72

11-29-2022, 01:45 PM

You know why

Your feed is customized to your clicks. ;)
I am afraid someone needs to tweak FB's algorithm then. If I'm googling for topless (or bottomless) women it's not because I am interested in buying them tops.

albionmoonlight

12-02-2022, 07:13 AM

Watching rich/powerful people when they leave their protected bubbles and have to actually engage the world is always amusing:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So here's the thing. You can only violate people's legal rights and your own word so far before they lawyer up and come after you. <br><br>I really do hope Musk changes his mind and does the right thing - the employees deserve that. But it'll be fun as hell if he doesn't. <a href="https://t.co/VA04hFDVBX">pic.twitter.com/VA04hFDVBX</a></p>— Akiva Cohen (@AkivaMCohen) <a href="https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1598487532764798983?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm sure Musk has had dozens of conversations with his lawyers that all amount to him saying some version of "But I want to!" while they patiently explain the law to him. Then he gets tired and frustrated and tells them to leave while he "thinks about it" and then goes and scrolls fanboy tweets for a few hours.

sterlingice

12-02-2022, 07:40 AM

This all goes back to the whole idea that it's not like Jack Dorsey is some giant liberal and Musk is going to go back and re-find out the use case for each and every rule that Twitter was put in place.

SI

GrantDawg

12-02-2022, 01:35 PM

Watching rich/powerful people when they leave their protected bubbles and have to actually engage the world is always amusing:<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm sure Musk has had dozens of conversations with his lawyers that all amount to him saying some version of "But I want to!" while they patiently explain the law to him. Then he gets tired and frustrated and tells them to leave while he "thinks about it" and then goes and scrolls fanboy tweets for a few hours.
It is the "Trump" view of the law. "I have enough layers that I pay enough money that they can attempt to delay and draw things out as much as possible." I just don't understand the sick brain that would rather pay lawyers than pay what they rightfully owe. The only reason I can think of they do it is because it ends up paying off for them more than it hurts them.
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Ksyrup

12-02-2022, 01:39 PM

Sometimes people like that make irrational decisions simply because they care more about looking like they are in control or are dictating the terms of engagement, even if the balance sheet implications (and possible PR ramifications down the line) don't work out.

sterlingice

12-02-2022, 01:46 PM

Kanye West’s Twitter Account Suspended After Posting Swastika – The Hollywood Reporter (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/elon-musk-kanye-west-twitter-suspended-swastika-1235273922/)

Actual line in actual "news" story:

The Hollywood Reporter reached out to a Twitter rep for comment, but that employee no longer works at the company.

SI

sterlingice

12-02-2022, 09:14 PM

Matt Taibbi did some of the best investigative journalism during and after the 2008 financial crisis and it's a shame he was writing for Rolling Stone instead of financial news (of course, I would assume financial news would be, you know, news, and not a giant grifting enterprise -silly, naive me). But he's gone down so many bad rabbit holes the last few years and I guess #Twittergate is just another one. I was sad to see his name trending next to Musk's latest silly distraction. If saying "Hunter Biden Laptop" three times fast makes some GOP shill appear, we're going to be up to our armpits in them over the next two years, aren't we?

SI

whomario

12-03-2022, 12:57 AM

Kanye West’s Twitter Account Suspended After Posting Swastika – The Hollywood Reporter (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/elon-musk-kanye-west-twitter-suspended-swastika-1235273922/)

Actual line in actual "news" story:

SI

Also: Technically the last Tweet before suspension was that holiday pic of Musk getting hosed down by his much more in shape employee.

Solecismic

12-03-2022, 01:22 AM

sterlingice

12-03-2022, 10:00 AM

I still don't get social media. The last thing I'd want is to trust a site to tell me what I want to see based on some algorithm. That's like eating every meal at McDonald's and expecting my next physical to end without blood tests showing that I have approximately ten McNuggets remaining in my life.

Facebook was interesting for keeping in touch with friends and family, but ads and their algorithms made that so much work that these days, no one is even active on facebook except for the people who think their political views are worth posting... endlessly. Probably because everyone in their immediate family runs screaming from the room every time they open their mouths. I just post cat pictures and vacation photos once or twice a year.

And kid pictures. Lots of kid pictures. But those are ok, too, in moderation.

Social media is engineered to get engagement however possible and the algorithms are a real problem. Of course, if we wanted to, you know, regulate this - it's very possible. I mean, it could be a set of rules with things as simple as like "80% of all posts seen by a user must be from friends or a community they subscribe to". Suddenly, FB isn't giving you 3 ads for every pet picture and YouTube isn't taking you from some gamer review straight to alt-rightsville. But that would require us to actually create and enforce regulations rather than just caving to industry interests and going "well, whatever is in the best interest of shareholders, social consequences be damned." Yes, it realize it's not quite that super simple and companies will always find ways around regulations, in time - but if we actually wanted to, we could pick some of the low hanging fruit really easily.

Between that and not owning a smart phone and cutting the cord and trying to read less online, it's my hope that my life is becoming more worth while. Hard to say. The more I cut, the less I feel the world is ending.

I have taken a lot of steps back from social media over the last few years for my own mental health. I also try to remind my wife to do the same as I see its effect on her and maybe it's easier to see it on someone else than on ourselves.

Of course the obvious question is "is the world any less ending just because you don't know about it or you personally aren't affected by it?" I'm not saying the world is or isn't ending - though by a number of objective measurable metrics, it's worse than most times in my life. Nor can I say that you or I can personally affect it. But how is that mentality different than just being an ostrich of hedonistic ("i.e. my personal pleasure is better because I don't see anything") or nihilistic ("i.e. I can't do anything about it so who cares what the world does") persuasion?

SI

albionmoonlight

12-03-2022, 11:01 AM

Of course the obvious question is "is the world any less ending just because you don't know about it or you personally aren't affected by it?" I'm not saying the world is or isn't ending - though by a number of objective measurable metrics, it's worse than most times in my life. Nor can I say that you or I can personally affect it. But how is that mentality different than just being an ostrich of hedonistic ("i.e. my personal pleasure is better because I don't see anything") or nihilistic ("i.e. I can't do anything about it so who cares what the world does") persuasion?

SI

I think it is that however bad the world is or is not, social media will always make you think that it is worse than it is. The business model is to keep you stressed.

Realistically, all one needs to do to be a reasonably informed citizen is find one source of national news you trust, a few sources of local news you trust, and check them once a day.

Maybe if there is an acute event (natural disaster, etc.) that is happening in real time, then you can consume that through up-to-the-minute media.

But the idea that we need to be getting BREAKING UPDATES every time Trump files a lawsuit or something is 100% a creation of the click-creators.

GrantDawg

12-03-2022, 12:23 PM

There is no doubt that social media runs on the driving people to "doom scroll" through negative after negative. The sad thing is that obscures the very obvious good it provides as well. There are people I have interacted with, and places and things I would have never been exposed to. I just wish there was more money in the positives than trying to emphasize the negatives.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Edward64

12-04-2022, 11:06 PM

I don't necessarily disagree with Musk on Twitter (maybe) overdoing it. Some mistakes may have been made and if there truly is a "trend/pattern", it should come out. Twitter is on the bleeding edge on figuring out what is appropriate or not, so some mistakes will be made, there will be grey areas etc.

But with Musk wanting Twitter transparency, the below resonated with me. Hope there is a campaign for this ...

https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1599087304827875328
If Musk is committed to transparency over influence at #Twitter he should release *his* communications with political operatives & politicians, foreign & domestic.

Like representatives from the Chinese & Saudi governments.

GrantDawg

12-06-2022, 07:25 AM

There are indications that Twitter is about to create its own crypto-currency, because Musk didn't fleece enough of his crypto-bro's with Dogecoin.

miami_fan

12-06-2022, 11:05 AM

I think it is that however bad the world is or is not, social media will always make you think that it is worse than it is. The business model is to keep you stressed.

Realistically, all one needs to do to be a reasonably informed citizen is find one source of national news you trust, a few sources of local news you trust, and check them once a day.

Maybe if there is an acute event (natural disaster, etc.) that is happening in real time, then you can consume that through up-to-the-minute media.

But the idea that we need to be getting BREAKING UPDATES every time Trump files a lawsuit or something is 100% a creation of the click-creators.

But isn't this social media and the world in general in its current state? All of our sources of news are ones that each individual trust as opposed to all of us trusting whatever Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, and/or Dan Rather said as the source?

whomario

12-08-2022, 01:54 AM

He really is just a passive agressive teenager:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You can sense the quiet seething that went into the recently replaced verification description <a href="https://t.co/AqAPllturD">pic.twitter.com/AqAPllturD</a></p>— steven ''italian elon musk'' monacelli (@stevanzetti) <a href="https://twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1600612124933365760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

albionmoonlight

12-08-2022, 07:12 AM

So Neuralink is under governmental investigation for apparently just torturing animals.

Teslas blow up at an above-average rate, and their self-driving AI runs over kids (and the company is about to get crushed by legacy carmakers because it didn't manage to corner the EV market with its first-mover advantage)

I think that whether through panic instinct or planning, Musk has decided (or lucked into the fact) that becoming an ally of the MAGA right helps him escape liability because he can classify every legitimate investigation of his business as the woke deep state trying to take him down. And 45% of the country will agree.

And whenever the MAGA GOP gets in charge of an apparatus of government that is investigating him, he can pressure them to shut it down.

Ksyrup

12-08-2022, 09:46 AM

There's probably something to that. And that maybe he sees trading blue state EV adopters for red state buyers who come to view a Tesla as a MAGA status symbol is a better long-term bet? Kind of like a tech version of My Pillow?

cuervo72

12-09-2022, 11:53 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Summing the reactions of ex-Twitter workers to "The Twitter Files Pt 2" <br><br>Ex-employees seemingly saying three main things: 1) This has long been public; 2) The platform features called out are innocuous; 3) The new T&S head handed everything over, making this little more than PR <a href="https://t.co/57wPKvah0i">pic.twitter.com/57wPKvah0i</a></p>— Davey Alba (@daveyalba) <a href="https://twitter.com/daveyalba/status/1601236464284893184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

12-10-2022, 05:27 PM

Not content with indirectly and/or anonymously (well, ignoring the personally directed firings) ruining peoples lifes, Musk is now putting himself at the head of the mob singling out former employees. All but accused the former head of the Trust and Safety team (who stayed on and actually carried his water for a couple weeks before presumably seeing there was no way to sugarcoat the madness) of being a pedophile, digging around and posting snippets of his PHD thesis to 'prove' a point one of his spitlickle stans was making.

sterlingice

12-11-2022, 10:30 AM

It's like if Geraldo went into Al Capone's vault and when he didn't find anything, just yelled at everyone around him and started sharing semi-private emails that had nothing to do with it to distract from what a dumpster fire it was.

SI

sterlingice

12-11-2022, 11:25 AM

There's a decent chance that in 70 years, history books will have a chapter about the sale and weaponization of Twitter. And people will be like "how did the US let this buffoon and his motley crew of backers ranging from Saudi and Qatari funds, conspiracy theorists like Larry Ellison, and crypto bros take over one of the most important new sources of that fragmented time" right before or after they ask "And, jeez, Grandpa - how awful was your generation's attention span that one of the best news sources of the time was limited to 140 characters?" And anyone alive will have to just shake their head and be like "It was a strange time - you just had to be there".

That is, if we still have history books that look different than North Korea's. Or that we haven't destroyed all of civilization. Or that we just aren't all Gilded Age level wage slaves - time is a flat circle and all.

SI

sterlingice

12-11-2022, 12:53 PM

It's really impressive how fast he's gone from genius futurist to Trump-tweeting-on-the-toilet

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My pronouns are Prosecute/Fauci</p>— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) <a href="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1601894132573605888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 11, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

SI

JPhillips

12-11-2022, 12:55 PM

Elon saying Twitter is a crime scene seems like an odd way to bring back advertisers, but what do I know?

Ksyrup

12-11-2022, 01:01 PM

The whole thing is really frustrating for those of us who just want to enjoy Twitter. I want to leave - and in fact, I have a Post account - but there's this collective inertia that makes it nearly impossible to replicate any kind of widespread social media experience somewhere else. So I'm still sticking around enough to continue to see stuff that pisses me off.

Post is great for the fact that you don't have a bunch of alt-right bots and personalities and racists, but there's also precious few conservatives at all, which is a general problem. I don't want an echo chamber. And then there's the lack of any kind of sports/entertainment Twitter experience, which is the main reason I enjoy Twitter.

I'm not really sure where to go next...

Ghost Econ

12-12-2022, 06:24 AM

It's weird that Elon has hundreds of billions of dollars, but instead of self-funding an investigation into the largest conspiracy that irrevocably changed the world... he makes snarky posts about Fauci.

Almost like he's not serious...

albionmoonlight

12-12-2022, 06:35 AM

If you are the board of Tesla, at what point do you have a fiduciary duty to your shareholders to remove the guy shitposting Nazi stuff on twitter as your CEO?

albionmoonlight

12-12-2022, 06:36 AM

This isn't theoretical. There are a lot of EV choices in 2022. And Tesla's whole deal is marketing itself as a brand as much as a car. And the figurehead of that brand spent $44 billion so he could show his ass more efficiently.

There have to be a lot of people who would have considered buying a Tesla who are not going to now.

albionmoonlight

12-12-2022, 06:38 AM

double dola: But for all I know, Tesla's board might be all Elon fanboys. So maybe they'd rather the ship go down than get rid of the captain. No idea really.

Ksyrup

12-12-2022, 06:48 AM

If MAGA has done anything, they've proven they will spend money and are diehard fans. I swear he's betting that he can create a new base of EV users that will proudly drive his car as a red hat symbol. It's either that or sheer ego-driven boredom. Or both.

Ksyrup

12-12-2022, 10:03 AM

Given the rapid speed at which Elon is devolving in front of our eyes, I feel like at some point he's just going to rip off his mask and it will be Trump.

Because this reminds you of the energy of someone who... oh I don't know, let's say... doesn't like the press coverage of his small inauguration crowd, doesn't it?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Technically, it was 90% cheers & 10% boos (except during quiet periods), but, still, that’s a lot of boos, which is a first for me in real life (frequent on Twitter).<br><br>It’s almost as if I’ve offended SF’s unhinged leftists … but nahhh.</p>— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) <a href="https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1602305628734599168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

albionmoonlight

12-12-2022, 10:14 AM

If there's one thing unhinged leftists like, it is going to watch notorious transphobe Dave Chapelle.

albionmoonlight

12-12-2022, 10:14 AM

dola: I don't even think for a lot of them it was political. It was that he's destroying Twitter. And people liked Twitter.

He could have destroyed Twitter from the left, and he'd get the same boos.

Ksyrup

12-12-2022, 11:22 AM

Here are some stats backing the thought that Tesla is becoming a tech MyPillow brand:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/teslas-approval-rating-goes-negative-survey-finds/

Morning Consult’s numbers also reinforce the political divide. Among self-described Democrats, 24.8% saw Tesla positively in October. Just 10.4% said the same at the end of November. Self-described Republicans saw their opinion of the company rise, from a favorable 20% to 26.5%, over the same period.

Of course, he better hope for more GOP supporters, because his favorability hasn't risen as far as the Dem negativity has fallen.

JonInMiddleGA

12-12-2022, 11:32 AM

He could have destroyed Twitter from the left, and he'd get the same boos.

As far left as Twitter skewed, how could anything possibly have gone far enough to damage it in that direction? It was already at a 89 degree tilt.

flere-imsaho

12-13-2022, 07:23 AM

If you are the board of Tesla, at what point do you have a fiduciary duty to your shareholders to remove the guy shitposting Nazi stuff on twitter as your CEO?

Tesla has 8 members of its BOD. I took a look and four, including Musk, are probably fellow travelers of Musk: Elon & Kimbal Musk, James Murdoch, Joe Gebbia (joined Sept 2022, notable for having founded AirBnB).

Of the remaining four, one is from the VC firm DBL Partners, which was an early Tesla investor and clearly this is their seat based on that investment. Two are seemingly competent women clearly brought in (based on timing) due to #metoo concerns (not necessarily a bad thing), and the last is a long-time international finance & development expert I'm going to assume was added in 2020 to give more of a veneer of respectability to the overall board.

So, even if we discount the high likelihood that Musk controls a majority of voting shares (probably by controlling a majority of a different class of shares that give extra voting power), he likely has 4 or 5 of the 8 board members (the fellow travelers plus the VC guy) who have no real incentive to bring him to heel (I'm sure DBL Partners has long since realized significant profit on their initial investment, even if they continue to have a sizeable investment in the company).

And this is why corporate governance is a joke in America.

sovereignstar v2

12-15-2022, 12:05 PM

What a snowflake

Musk bans live location sharing, says heâ€™ll sue creator of plane-tracking bot | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/12/musk-bans-live-location-sharing-says-hell-sue-creator-of-plane-tracking-bot/)

Solecismic

12-15-2022, 01:29 PM

As far left as Twitter skewed, how could anything possibly have gone far enough to damage it in that direction? It was already at a 89 degree tilt.

Apparently higher than that (97-99% blue, based on political contributions). Since this story stems from inviting Bari Weiss and her team at Common Sense (now called The Free Press) to sit in a conference room for a week or so and use tools to search the Twitter archives, emails, Slack channels, etc, I'm inclined to listen to what they're reporting.

Her conclusion is that there's reason to worry that she might (or might not) be invited to do the same thing at some point in the future when Twitter has a new owner. But this is a very real story. I'd urge people to read her reports (they are being released on Twitter before she puts them on The Free Press - the only condition for the access her team was given).

Often the hook of subscribing to or signing up for something on social media is the ability to interact with fellow users. Even on a small scale, that can be an unpleasant hive-mind experience at times. It's unimaginably worse on a larger scale.

Social media combines the unending desire to have an opinion with the unending desire to be liked. It's like crack and produces similarly drugged minds.

I don't know why Musk thinks he can turn this into the Town Square that all of us were hoping for. It already was that. Perhaps he's imagining a Town Square where everyone has the same First Amendment rights as opposed to subject to the whim of corporate leadership.

But as everyone notes, some people just need to be banned. It's easy to agree on a reason like trafficking child porn. Not so easy if it's a group that takes public information and turns it into a tool that's easily co-opted by stalkers (like the cheap Apple disks that are in the news so much lately, or, somewhat similarly, the flight data on Musk's private aircraft). That gives those in power a lot of power.

What's present in the Town Square, but not possible online is accountability. If you advocate violence or even post evidence of having committed a crime, nothing happens. But the alternative is that it's so easy to police online and start delving into thoughtcrime (we see this in Europe, Iran, China on different levels) that those in power can enforce the hive mind anyway.

Maybe the Town Square was always an illusion. There has always been a cost for freedom. But if the government is going to interact with the owners of social media, issue any direction about content, whether it's protection like Section 230 or directives to censor in any way, then it needs to be transparent and everyone should have equal rights.