The 2024 Presidential Nomination Thread

[Sweed]

While some of it is certainly that, Jon, there's a nonpartisan viewpoint to this that the work of staging a national campaign requires a lot of tactical and on-the-ground experience and expertise and a lot of it was shown the door.

It would be as if someone bought FedEx and fired most of the people who knew how logistics worked.

Or in some other dream world someone bought Twitter and...

[albionmoonlight]

It certainly seems like this will be yet another way that this election will be a huge gamechanger going forward.

If the GOP loses big for lack of logistics, etc., then the takeaway will be to reinforce the importance of the party apparatus, experience, "the swamp," etc.

If the GOP wins with a social-media/litigation focused strategy and does not miss the RNC logistics, then what's the point of parties?

[flere-imsaho]

The thing is, if Trump wins, a lot of it won't matter anymore, because the GOP will make it so difficult to win as a Democrat in most states (utilizing everything from unconstitutional rules to gerrymandering to just making it so that GOP legislatures can overrule elections) that for most of the country there will be just one party and somewhat pointless elections.

[GrantDawg]

The press is running big time with the idea that Aaron Rodgers is going to be RFK, JR. running mate. What it really looks like is the campaign purposely floated that idea out there while AR is on his psychedelic retreat and isn't available to respond. Great way to make some noise for awhile till Aaron comes back and shoots it down. I just don't see any way that Aaron wants to give up football to tilt at windmills. He is nuts but not that nuts.

[NobodyHere]

Is there any rule that says you have to give up football to be the Vice President?

[GrantDawg]

Is there any rule that says you have to give up football to be the Vice President?
He can't campaign while he is playing. Football becomes a full time job right when he should be heaviest on the campaign trail. If he runs and doesn't even take the time to campaign, how could anybody take him seriously? How are the Jets going to like that kind of distraction from their starting quarterback?

[NobodyHere]

Oh come on now. It's not like being US Vice President is any more time consuming or distracting than say, hosting Jeopardy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The current GOP electorate cares about discomfiting "liberals" (defined as anyone they don't like) above all else, and doesn't really care who does it. In theory, anyone could be a vessel for that.

Hey, you used one of my favorite words :)

[bob]

At what point would he get secret service protection? Can you tackle a VP candidate? Seems like this could help the Jets.

[PilotMan]

Oh come on now. It's not like being US Vice President is any more time consuming or distracting than say, hosting Jeopardy.


Maybe the host of Jeopardy should be the VP just out of principal. Like, put it in the constitution. Or maybe the other way, that the VP has to be the host of Jeopardy to show everyone what they can do?

Either way could be fun.

[albionmoonlight]

Pence saying he won’t endorse Trump

[Atocep]

Trump is trying to completely rewrite history with MAGA fanfic.

Fact check: Trump, telling a completely fictional story, falsely claims he released ‘the tape’ of his Zelensky call | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/17/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-zelensky-call-pelosi/index.html)

Speaking at a Saturday campaign rally in Ohio, Trump claimed he let Democrats make “wilder and wilder” claims about what he said to Zelensky, “and then we released the tape.” Trump proceeded to claim that when Democratic Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, who was then the speaker of the House, “heard” this tape, she was angry that she had been deceived by her allies’ previous “false” descriptions of the call; he claimed that Pelosi said to “her people”: “What the hell did you get me into? You hear this call? He didn’t do any of this stuff!”

Trump claimed that Pelosi was told, “Let’s just pretend he did and keep going forward.” He continued, “After they made up the story and then after that they heard the tape, they died. They didn’t know that phone call was taped. That was one good case of a phone call being taped. And they were taped and they got caught.”

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pence saying he won’t endorse Trump

Oh noes, whatforever shall we do?

Talk about an endorsement that wouldn't move any needle, that might be the posterchild for uselessness.

[Thomkal]

Trump is trying to completely rewrite history with MAGA fanfic.

Fact check: Trump, telling a completely fictional story, falsely claims he released ‘the tape’ of his Zelensky call | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/17/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-zelensky-call-pelosi/index.html)


I'm glad CNN fact checked this right away in the article. If we ever get to a trump/biden debate, Biden can ask him where this tape is along with all the documents he stole.

[albionmoonlight]

20% of Republicans in the Florida primary voted against Trump. This protest vote is somewhat notable because it is a closed primary and voting started after everyone had dropped out. So you can’t blame it on independent and Democratic crossovers, nor on early votes before Haley dropped out.

Of course, most protest votes come home and vote for the nominee in the general election. But that’s still a pretty high number.

[Ksyrup]

That group would seem to be part of Biden's path to a victory. But, as you say, protesting in a primary is one thing. Moving them from "I always vote GOP" through "I'm voting 3rd party as a further protest" or "I'm staying home, the choice between Trump and Biden is just too depressing" to "I'm voting for Biden" seems like a tough task.

As for 3rd party options, I still have a hard time understanding RFK's base (even if it's infinitesimal) - I wouldn't think people voting as protest against Trump would think RFK is the better option. It seems like a bunch of kooks who buy into conspiracy theories and the like would be his people, but aren't most of those already in love with Trump? Where's the "vaccines are made to control my brain" and "pedophile Dems drink children's blood" voting block who have decided they can't vote for Trump? Or on the left side, is he gonna get the flower child/"I don't put anything unnatural into my body" vote just because he's anti-vaccine?

[GrantDawg]

I just ran across a lefty voter type that seems to be all on RFK. She really just glosses over the snti-vac conspiracy theory nuttiest by saying "well all three are nuts."

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Ksyrup]

What else does the guy offer? A tie to the 60s?

[RainMaker]

Early polling showed he hurt Trump but this seems to show he hurts Biden.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">5 way polls<br><br>Arizona<br>�� Trump 46%<br>�� Biden 38%<br>�� Kennedy 7%<br>�� Stein 2%<br>�� West 1%<br><br>Nevada<br>�� Trump 41%<br>�� Biden 36%<br>�� Kennedy 9%<br>�� West 2%<br>�� Stein 1%</p>&mdash; umichvoter ��️‍�� (@umichvoter) <a href="https://twitter.com/umichvoter/status/1770461668146856077?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[JPhillips]

I just don't know how much the polls can be trusted. Not only do many of them show a huge swing of youth voters towards the GOP often the same polls show a huge swing of old voters towards Dems. Maybe that's really happening, but it's hard to accept without any evidence from elections.

[albionmoonlight]

There's also, on both sides, a sense I am still getting of "it won't really be these two."

Even after they have locked up a majority of delegates, there seems to still be a sense that something will change the candidates.

Once the Fall is here and it is clear that it will be Biden and Trump, I think that we will see the protest votes and wishful thinking fall away and the polls will be a more accurate snapshot.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, I don't get that at all; is it folks just not understanding how the process works? Or buying into conspiracies? (Biden is going to step down at the last minute and Michele Obama is going to run!)

One thing that I am interested in watching is if the media gets a bit more serious in its coverage of Trump. This week they've seemed to be a little more critical in covering his comments -- pardoning J6, bloodbath, "these aren't people", if you vote Democrat you're not a true Jewish/Christian/whatever, etc. where before they'd have the standard clip of him taking the stage, making some gestures, while being sure to grab a few bars of the "Proud to be an American" audio.

I also wonder if voices from his first term warning against a second term are going to get progressively louder.

[Lathum]

I think Trump going all in on the Jan 6th people being hostages is what could really hurt him. No one outside his hard core base thinks that.

As for RFK. Most voters aren't even paying attention at this point, the see the Kennedy name and assume he would be a better choice. If he gets more of a microphone to the public people will see what a nut he is, his own family doesn't support him, and that his own wife had to apologize for statements he has made. those things still hurt politicians not named Trump.

[molson]

Our neighborhood Facebook group warned us about roving RFK canvassers that are super-aggressive - like refusing to leave your property, coming back again and again if you don't talk to them or tell them you're not interested.

[RainMaker]

I just don't know how much the polls can be trusted. Not only do many of them show a huge swing of youth voters towards the GOP often the same polls show a huge swing of old voters towards Dems. Maybe that's really happening, but it's hard to accept without any evidence from elections.

The swing of youth voters makes sense. Between Gaza and the TikTok ban, that's going to crush the enthusiasm and support he got in 2020 from that demographic. Not to mention his loss of minority voters which are a higher proportion of the younger voting bloc.

It could just be a strategy they view as best. He can't backtrack on Gaza now so he realizes those young voters are lost. The past month or so he's seemed to be targeting older white voters. The people that would vote for Nikki Haley. One of the more interesting polls shows him closer to Trump in North Carolina than in Georgia. That would play out as North Carolina has an older white population which Biden does well with.

I still think he's going to lose the popular vote but if he threads the needle in certain swing states, there's a chance he wins the thing again.

[Lathum]

You think Biden loses the popular vote? The gop has lost 7 of the last 8 popular votes. I dont see Trump being the guy to buck that trend.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of pollsters and statisticians talk about how they think Trump has a good chance of winning the popular vote. The shift in minority votes (predominately Hispanic) has been very noticeable of late and young people voted at a much higher rate in 2020 which doesn't seem likely to carry over.

But I think what they are seeing is that in big blue states like California and Illinois, he's going to lose percentage points. He'll still win the state, but even a few percentage points in those big states translates to a lot of votes. Like we had a primary in Illinois yesterday and there was a considerable undervote for Biden in Chicago. There's no way he's hitting 58% again this time around in Illinois.

[Swaggs]

The concerning thing about those polls is that the Dem senate candidates are dramatically outperforming Biden, which makes me think they have a pretty decent cross section of voters.

I still think Biden will be in very good position to win in November based on the post Roe being overturned election results and the fact that Trump can't seem to get out of his own way to let this be a referendum on Biden.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, there's still a lot of variables at play. Good chance Trump says or does something completely moronic that motivates people to vote against him. Or Dems start to actually focus on abortion.

On the same token, the stuff coming out of Gaza is only going to get worse, especially when Israel goes into Rafah. Netanyahu wants Trump and is going to do everything to make Biden look weak. Videos of starving babies is not a good look and I don't think they can ban all the social media sites by the election.

[RainMaker]

They're also both old and in Trump's case, not in the best shape. So getting sick or just dying is on the table for both too.

[JPhillips]

Might as well just donate straight to Trump's bank account.

Donald Trump’s new joint fundraising agreement with the Republican National Committee directs donations to his campaign and a political action committee that pays the former president’s legal bills before the RNC gets a cut, according to a fundraising invitation obtained by The Associated Press.

[Lathum]

Down ballot republicans are going to get fucked and they will deserve every bit of it.

[Brian Swartz]

Once the Fall is here and it is clear that it will be Biden and Trump, I think that we will see the protest votes and wishful thinking fall away and the polls will be a more accurate snapshot.

We've already reached the point where historically polls tend to be pretty indicative of what happens.

Hopefully that turns out not to be the case, but the wishful thinking I sense is more on the 'yeah right, Trump won't do this well' side. Wrongly IMO, people are still mad about inflation, they see prices being higher and that tends to end up blaming the guy in power. Pandemic is no longer in people's minds.

It's worth remembering I think the reaction to the last election. Early on people were panicking about how close Trump was and that it could really fall his way again. Even after he lost, he still got more votes after the dumpster fire - apologies to dumpster fires - that was his term as President. Afterwards there was a lot of discussion about how he could get several million more after everything that happened. The whole mindset of 'there's just no way people vote for that again' strikes me as hopium on parade.

[PilotMan]

Down ballot republicans are going to get fucked and they will deserve every bit of it.


Won't it actually just force every single one of them to swear fealty to trump? It's the only way they will get exposure otherwise.

[Lathum]

Won't it actually just force every single one of them to swear fealty to trump? It's the only way they will get exposure otherwise.

You need money to win elections. Not to mention infrastructure and data all provided by the RNC. They will now get none of that, and what they do get will be tainted with incompetence. Fealty to Trump is a requirement, but not necessarily a boost. Ask Oz, Mastriano, Walker, etc...

[flere-imsaho]

Hell, plenty of people have pledged fealty to them and didn't even get an endorsement.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The whole mindset of 'there's just no way people vote for that again' strikes me as hopium on parade.

We can disagree about pretty much all the rest you said and still simply leave room for me to agree that he's not only more popular than he was but significantly more popular. I'd caution those thinking otherwise the same way I caution the "no chance he could possibly lose" crowd, about the hazards of looking at the electorate through only the lens of "people you know".

I still don't think he'll win given the current state of elections but more votes feels almost certain to me.

I'll be in the minority of his votes come November, call it "reluctant but okay with it". Most of his votes will come from supporters that are downright fanatical about it.

And as with any situation of any sort, a "Jon rule" applies:
When I'M the voice of reason, the situation is pretty fucked.

[flere-imsaho]

Do we think he's more broadly popular, or more deeply popular?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Do we think he's more broadly popular, or more deeply popular?

A bit of the former, a ton of the latter.

But woebetide anyone who doesn't get on board because of it. And that will boost the numbers.

I'm not talking about the "never Trump" crowd. They're already pariahs.
I'm talking about the ... standard "supporter at the level of the average candidate's supporter". How to say it, just being like a "normal" amount of "yeah, I'm good with voting for this person, no problem"

I'M a borderline outcast in some circles - pretty large ones - for simply being relatively mild. And for daring to suggest that a loss is even possible, much less likely IMO, I could be a candidate for both drawing AND quartering.

There's a ... fanaticism ... -- even as closely connected as I am to those circles -- that I'm at a loss to explain.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting discussion in the Bulwark today via a Forbes article (linked below) about how consumers today are at odds with modern economists in that they factor into their "cost of living" the cost of money, which the Bureau of Labor Statistics eliminated from their Consumer Price Index formula in 1983. Per the "old" formula, inflation in 2022 was 18%.

Summers: Inflation Reached 18% In 2022 Using The Government’s Previous Formula (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2024/03/23/summers-inflation-reached-18-in-2022-using-the-governments-previous-formula/?sh=3859133b2092)


So the gist is that no, Americans aren't crazy, inflation was worse than economists were saying because they weren't just factoring in the price of goods into how the economy felt. And that a couple of keys to Biden's campaign need to be to avoid lecturing Americans about how much better off they are than they think, and to get the Feds to cut rates - and to make a show about it so that when it happens he can take credit and appear like he understands "your pain."

[Brian Swartz]

The thing is that the deeply popular doesn't matter much. It's the broadly that is relevant here. It's such a unique situation; two former Presidents, who had the worst modern Presidential matchup last time and both are worse candidates than they were four years ago, but here they are again.

My hot take is that Biden has been damaged worse than Trump, in no small part due to just the fact that he's been in power the last four years. People have short memories and often vote for change when they are unhappy with the current government, even if there's no good reason to think that change will be an improvement. I think what we're seeing is most likely not people liking Trump more; his numbers are quite similar and slightly better than they were for most of his Presidency. The difference is people like Biden a lot less than they did four years ago.

At this point in 2020, Biden had a 4-point lead in the national polls, a lead that basically doubled by the time of the election, and ended up winning by 4.5%. This time it looks like Trump by 1.5-3% depending on what you are looking at. It never looked anywhere near that good for him in 2020.

I was dead wrong in 2020, I expected a historic landslide for Biden and we didn't get that; it was closer than I thought it would be. My prediction powers are not great at anything, politics included, but if I was a betting man I wouldn't pick four more years of Joe. I'm in the crowd of people very concerned about that, but it's how I see it. .02.

[Brian Swartz]

Interesting KSyrup, thanks for posting that.

Edit: the only point of difference I have is that it's not in Biden's power (and IMO shouldn't be) to get the Fed to cut interest rates. I do agree that there are messaging changes that can and hopefully will happen. Whenever a candidate tries to tell voters their experience is wrong it tends to backfire hard (Bush Sr. against Clinton, Dole, McCain in his doomed attempt to beat Obama, etc.).

[RainMaker]

Curious to see how well Kennedy does. I would not be surprised if he pulls in 5%+ in the election. Polls are interesting as they showed him hurting Trump early on, but now are showing hurting both equally (maybe hurting Biden a little bit more).

I think it'll depend on what he runs on. The antivax stuff will appeal to Republicans and might take some votes from Trump. But I've seen a lot of his ads recently are for "ending forever wars" which hurts both candidates in a way, but likely Biden more. Will be interesting to see which direction that campaign goes but the ending wars might be his best chance to show a different policy than the others.

Below is where I think the race is headed although I think Biden pulls out Wisconsin. I thought Georgia was his next best chance but surprised to see how far down in the polls he is in that state. Think he's cooked in Arizona, Nevada, and Michigan.

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[Atocep]

Polling is kind of all over the place and I'm not sure polls from January or even February are all that relevant right now.

Morning Consult's most recent poll has Biden up a point in Wisconsin, tied with Trump in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and trailing but gaining in Arizona, Nevada, and North Carolina. That seems to mesh with his overall approval rating climbing about 2 points in the past 3 weeks.

There's still 7 months to go and the more Trump is on TV and getting coverage the worse his polling looks.

[RainMaker]

I don't think it's all over the place. You can get a pretty good average based on all the polling. Whether you think that will drastically change in 8 months is another story.

Trump likely gets hurt with more exposure, but Biden still has the Gaza situation which gets worse by the day (and good lord imagine what happens when they go into Rafah). Plus banning TikTok or whatever else he needs to do to appease donors is probably not going to help him with young people either.

I still think it'll be incredibly hard for him to win Nevada, Arizona, and Michigan. Maybe they think North Carolina is in play which is why they've shifted their strategy so much.

[Atocep]

I don't think it's all over the place. You can get a pretty good average based on all the polling. Whether you think that will drastically change in 8 months is another story.

Trump likely gets hurt with more exposure, but Biden still has the Gaza situation which gets worse by the day (and good lord imagine what happens when they go into Rafah). Plus banning TikTok or whatever else he needs to do to appease donors is probably not going to help him with young people either.

I still think it'll be incredibly hard for him to win Nevada, Arizona, and Michigan. Maybe they think North Carolina is in play which is why they've shifted their strategy so much.


To me, it seems polls are having a difficult time capturing where we are at any given time. For example, just looking at the referenced polling in Pennsylvania in March you have the race tied, Trump up 2, Trump up 4, and Biden up 5. An aggregate paints a clearer picture, but we're still talking about a 9 point swing between 2 of the 4 polls.

Voters also tend to tire of issues. Gaza is and has hurt Biden, but those things tend to bounce back the other way the further we get from the issue. Voters have very short memories. Which is part of why Trump is polling as well as he is and has an approval rating higher than he had throughout most of his presidency.

[RainMaker]

We just gave Israel billions in weapons so I don't think the genocide is ending any time soon. And I don't think Trump is polling well as opposed to Biden doing poorly. A lot of the crosstabs on these polls show a shift with young people or certain demographics just not interested in voting in this election (Biden needs young and minority voters).

I think he's in deep shit and I think the strategy of pretending nothing is wrong is sort of the same path Hillary went down in 2016. Senate candidates across the board are outperforming Biden, so this isn't just a matter of Dems being under-reported in the polls. Biden is just uniquely unpopular.

Michigan is what is going to fuck him over and you can look at his subservient attitude toward Israel as the reason why. He was likely going to lose Arizona and Nevada due to demographic shifts. Georgia was always on the fence. But if he hung on to Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, he was set. I just don't see how he wins back those people in Michigan and it's going to cause a strategy shift it seems (why he's catering Haley voters instead of his base). Trusting Netanyahu who wants Trump badly was one of the dumbest moves we've seen politics over the last century or so.

[Brian Swartz]

To me, it seems polls are having a difficult time capturing where we are at any given time. For example, just looking at the referenced polling in Pennsylvania in March you have the race tied, Trump up 2, Trump up 4, and Biden up 5. An aggregate paints a clearer picture, but we're still talking about a 9 point swing between 2 of the 4 polls.

This is normal though? There's often quite a bit of variance between different polls. The better analyses tend to look at which ones have tended to be more accurate in recent election cycles, minimize the influence of outliers, etc.

In terms of polls this far out being relevant; historically they just are. I'm with Rainmaker on Biden's unpopularity, and I don't disagree that more exposure will hurt Trump but it won't make Biden more liked.

[Atocep]

This is normal though? There's often quite a bit of variance between different polls. The better analyses tend to look at which ones have tended to be more accurate in recent election cycles, minimize the influence of outliers, etc.

In terms of polls this far out being relevant; historically they just are. I'm with Rainmaker on Biden's unpopularity, and I don't disagree that more exposure will hurt Trump but it won't make Biden more liked.

This looked at A/B rated polls and 4 of them within 3 weeks had a 9 point swing. I don't think we're learning much there 7 months out. Especially when it's using polls going back to early January as part of the aggregate.

No one at all here disagrees that Biden is unpopular. I don't know why anyone feels the need to point it at this point. His approval rating is improving but generally bad. So is Trumps. They both suck. However, more recent polling since the state of the union, as Trump has been in the forefront more, is trending in Bidens direction, which seems to be backed up by a 2 point improvement in his approval rating.

What part of any of this is incorrect?

[Brian Swartz]

I think almost all of it is, though not the recent bump after the state of the union. I think that will be washed out though, just as most events that happen during the campaign are. Things vacillate some one way or another, but tend to come back to where they were - and the long-term trend for Biden's approval has been slightly negative but basically flat going back almost a year now.

This looked at A/B rated polls and 4 of them within 3 weeks had a 9 point swing. I don't think we're learning much there 7 months out. Especially when it's using polls going back to early January as part of the aggregate.

These types of swings are typical is the point. Two weeks before the election we will see similar swings in various areas. I also don't think the 7 months out is that significant because again, historically it isn't. Where the polls are now strongly tends to be similar to where they end up on election day. Biden-Trump, Clinton-Trump, Obama-Romney, you can keep on going back and the story is consistently the same ... not always and it does change some throughout the race, but in the overwhelming number of modern elections it ends up about it where it is at this point.

In terms of Biden's unpopularity, the reason it matters is that it reduces the impact of Trump's. People who might leave Trump need a viable alternative or less of them leave, and it's the difference between this election and the last one. Going into 2020, Biden was +4 in favorability compared to Trump, and that is not coincidentally about the size of his popular vote margin. Right now, Trump isn't just even on that, he's ahead by 2-5 depending on whether you are just looking at approval or the net approval/disapproval. The unpopularity matters because it impacts how much room there is for these numbers to move.

[Atocep]

I agree mostly. I do think the state of the union ends up mostly washing out. People have short attention spans and tire of scandals unless there are significant updates. The state of the union, Gaza, and 1000 other things will either be forgotten or have far less importance to voters by election day. Republicans can't really run on the Gaza situation because they're all for Israel steamrolling through there at any cost. 7 months from now its u likely to have much, if any, impact.

Abortion and the economy will be the 2 biggest factors in this election. The economy is strong fundamentally but people are still not comfortable with the combination of inflation and shrinkflation we're seeing. Abortion, though, is still killing the GOP. They lost a state seat special election in Alabama by 25 points in a district that Trump won and went +7 to the GOP in 2022 by heavily focusing on reproductive rights.

[RainMaker]

I agree mostly. I do think the state of the union ends up mostly washing out. People have short attention spans and tire of scandals unless there are significant updates. The state of the union, Gaza, and 1000 other things will either be forgotten or have far less importance to voters by election day. Republicans can't really run on the Gaza situation because they're all for Israel steamrolling through there at any cost. 7 months from now its u likely to have much, if any, impact.

Abortion and the economy will be the 2 biggest factors in this election. The economy is strong fundamentally but people are still not comfortable with the combination of inflation and shrinkflation we're seeing. Abortion, though, is still killing the GOP. They lost a state seat special election in Alabama by 25 points in a district that Trump won and went +7 to the GOP in 2022 by heavily focusing on reproductive rights.

I really don't think those issues will go away. And I really think Democrats are making a huge mistake assuming that everyone is just going to come back to the table at election time. I'm sure some will, but I think they are vastly underestimating how many people are angry with Biden and his hard right shift and continuation of unpopular policies. Repeatedly antagonizing your base seems like a bad strategy.

Maybe they have internal data telling them things are great. Maybe there is a plan to abandon Michigan because they think they can win North Carolina with these policies instead (they did think they could win Georgia in 2020 when most people didn't think they could). And maybe they think there are enough never-Trumpers to make up for all the people they are losing.

But sure seems to me like a campaign that is fucking up bad (see their immigration stunt) and will need to pull out some excuses for why they botched another election to Donald Trump of all people.

[RainMaker]

Here is how Biden is going to be haunted over the next 9 months. We're going to keep seeing stories like this pop up every week. They can't ban every social media site posting them like they want to with TikTok. This isn't a war that will end next week, it's going to go on till November and Netanyahu will do everything in his power to make Biden look bad.



<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A new Al Jazeera video shows what is an apparently unarmed man shot by IDF forces while walking along the seaside, by the Nabulsi/Netzarim checkpoint<br><br>He was shot right next to the pier that was being built after Biden's State of the Union. <br><br>Imagery below is March 20 from Planet <a href="https://t.co/muNo8bahaz">https://t.co/muNo8bahaz</a> <a href="https://t.co/M5l7QeTxg8">pic.twitter.com/M5l7QeTxg8</a></p>&mdash; Aric Toler (@AricToler) <a href="https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1773073715858727138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[GrantDawg]

Joe Lieberman has died. He was one of the biggest names behind the "No Labels" party, who can't seem to find anyone interested in running for them.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Ksyrup]

Our local news said he was 94. I about choked. But no, he was about Biden's age.

[GrantDawg]

He had a fall. That is just an example of how quickly someone of Biden or Trump's age can go down from something as simple as a fall.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[molson]

I'm pretty sure my parents bought their retirement house because the realtor told them that Joe Lieberman's wife's parents were a previous owner. She did grow up there in Gardner, MA, but, otherwise, unsubstantiated.

[Edward64]

Our local news said he was 94. I about choked. But no, he was about Biden's age.

That did surprise me so googling said 82.

[RainMaker]

He was an enormous piece of shit.

[GrantDawg]

Y'all do realize that P. Diddy having his houses raided for sex trafficking almost guarantees he is going to be Trump's running mate, right?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

Diddy do it?

[RainMaker]

Reaching the point where Trump would be a better choice in terms of foreign policy and at least slowing down genocide than Biden. Still think he'd allow a lot, but he understands the situation much better than Biden.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/01/us/politics/trump-israel-conservative.html?pvid=MFvSvBcCbQH6G6S6ZOXBPFac&ugrp=c&smid=tw-share

[BYU 14]

So ignore all the other damage he will do? Beyond that, Israel won't listen to him anymore than they listen to Biden. You want them to listen, cut off aid until they allow complete aid and quit killing civilians.

[RainMaker]

Israel absolutely listens when you turn off the money spigot. HW and Reagan did it and got what they wanted. Joe being a feckless pussy doesn't change that reality.

[flere-imsaho]

We already know what Trump's foreign policy would be. It would be doing what Putin wants the U.S. to do. Given that you seem totally fine with Putin being allowed to do what he wants to do, RM, I could see how you would come up with such a ridiculous statement.

[RainMaker]

We already know what Trump's foreign policy would be. It would be doing what Putin wants the U.S. to do. Given that you seem totally fine with Putin being allowed to do what he wants to do, RM, I could see how you would come up with such a ridiculous statement.

I'm not fine with what Putin is doing. I just don't think we should be sending hundreds of billions in weapons for an unwinnable war. Also think the potential blowback of sending hundreds of billions in weapons to a poor country with extremely far-right militias and little oversight is a recipe for disaster (not to mention entering a proxy war with a nuclear power). Have a feeling we'll be seeing those weapons end up in some sketchy hands down the road.

You'd think people would realize this after the other dozen or so times this strategy blew up in our face, but maybe this time is different.

Trump sucks and all but his foreign policy is much better. It'd keep us out of nevernding conflict in Ukraine and save hundreds of billions. Plus he at least seems to have a line with Israel committing genocide that Joe doesn't.

[flere-imsaho]

Trump sucks and all but his foreign policy is much better.

From the first Trump Administration, a short-list:


Withdrew from a nuclear arms treaty with Russia
Alternately increased defense funding and criticized the amount spent on defense
Pardoned and promoted soldiers who were convicted and accused, respectively, of war crimes
Increased drone strikes from the Obama Administration, and reduced transparency, including the Obama-era policy of reporting civilian deaths due to drone strikes
Legitimized North Korea, removed sanctions placed on North Korea, and saluted North Korean generals
Withdrew the U.S. from an Iranian sanctions program that then allowed Iran greater freedom to develop nuclear weapons
Removed support from the Kurds, causing them to ally with Syria against Turkey, another stated objective of Russia in the region
Sold billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, said great things about MBS, and condoned the murder of Jamal Khashoggi
Gave legitimacy to the practice of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank

[Atocep]

I would add legitimizing the Taliban and inviting them to talks at Camp David to that list.

[RainMaker]

From the first Trump Administration, a short-list:
Withdrew from a nuclear arms treaty with Russia
Alternately increased defense funding and criticized the amount spent on defense
Pardoned and promoted soldiers who were convicted and accused, respectively, of war crimes
Increased drone strikes from the Obama Administration, and reduced transparency, including the Obama-era policy of reporting civilian deaths due to drone strikes
Legitimized North Korea, removed sanctions placed on North Korea, and saluted North Korean generals
Withdrew the U.S. from an Iranian sanctions program that then allowed Iran greater freedom to develop nuclear weapons
Removed support from the Kurds, causing them to ally with Syria against Turkey, another stated objective of Russia in the region
Sold billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, said great things about MBS, and condoned the murder of Jamal Khashoggi
Gave legitimacy to the practice of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank

Yeah, Trump was pretty bad and still much better than Biden's foreign policy. That should tell you something.

[flere-imsaho]

I mean, that's the short list.

The fact of the matter is that the first Trump Administration's foreign policy more-or-less completely consisted of delivering on the hopes & dreams of autocrats everywhere, but especially those who had bankrolled TrumpCo over the years (Russia, though much of that was money laundering) or bankrolled Jared Kushner during the administration (Saudi Arabia) or allowed Ivanka to make money (China, granting IP rights), while simultaneously alienating long-standing U.S. allies.

If that's what constitues a "much better" foreign policy, then at least be honest about it.

And let's not forget that part of the problem with Israel right now is down to the fact that Netanyahu has been supported and emboldened for years by the same evangelical right donors that are also Trump's most fervent supporters. To think that he's magically going to bring Netanyahu to heel is fantasy, magical thinking. He'll do whatever 2025's version of Sheldon Adelson wants him to do in Israel. Or be persuaded to let Israel sweep Gaza off the map so he can get in on the seaside real estatement investment opportunities that his son-in-law talked about.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, Trump was pretty bad and still much better than Biden's foreign policy. That should tell you something.

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

[RainMaker]

I would add legitimizing the Taliban and inviting them to talks at Camp David to that list.

As bad as the Taliban is, they're actually the more moderate group in the country. Beats supporting the absolute psycho Salafists and some of those warlords.

[NobodyHere]

As bad as the Taliban is, they're actually the more moderate group in the country. Beats supporting the absolute psycho Salafists and some of those warlords.

Taliban edict to resume stoning women to death met with horror | Taliban | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/mar/28/taliban-edict-to-resume-stoning-women-to-death-met-with-horror)

How are the other groups worse?

[RainMaker]

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Worth noting that most of those things you mentioned, Biden supports. Increase defense funding, drone strikes, West Bank settlements, weapons to the Saudis, betraying the Kurds, and the embrace of war crimes. On the others, he hasn't cared enough to change them.

On top of it, Biden is spearheading a genocide in Gaza where even our own citizens are being executed by the Israeli government. Netanyahu is openly mocking him on a daily basis it seems. One of the lowest points in American foreign policy history that will have repercussions for the rest of our lives.

The Ukraine War has cost hundreds of billions and ended up with us being less safe and Ukraine still losing (still too cowardly to implement and act on any sanctions that may harm wealthy people). The Saudis embarrass him a few times a year for fun. Even Sisi in Egypt has gotten in on that.

We've had some terrible foreign policy Presidents in our country, but he has to be up there as one of the weakest. Being subservient to tiny ethnostates and authoritarian regimes to the point that he sides with them over the deaths of his own citizens.

[RainMaker]

Taliban edict to resume stoning women to death met with horror | Taliban | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/mar/28/taliban-edict-to-resume-stoning-women-to-death-met-with-horror)

How are the other groups worse?

Read up on Salafi jihadism. They view the Taliban as fake Muslims who are too secular. They're the ones that just shot up that concert hall in Russia.

As wild as it is, they're far more fucked up than the Taliban and believe their cause should be global.

[flere-imsaho]

Worth noting that most of those things you mentioned, Biden supports.

Really?

Here's my list, again:


Withdrew from a nuclear arms treaty with Russia
Alternately increased defense funding and criticized the amount spent on defense
Pardoned and promoted soldiers who were convicted and accused, respectively, of war crimes
Increased drone strikes from the Obama Administration, and reduced transparency, including the Obama-era policy of reporting civilian deaths due to drone strikes
Legitimized North Korea, removed sanctions placed on North Korea, and saluted North Korean generals
Withdrew the U.S. from an Iranian sanctions program that then allowed Iran greater freedom to develop nuclear weapons
Removed support from the Kurds, causing them to ally with Syria against Turkey, another stated objective of Russia in the region
Sold billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, said great things about MBS, and condoned the murder of Jamal Khashoggi
Gave legitimacy to the practice of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank


Which of those does Biden support?

[RainMaker]

And let's not forget that part of the problem with Israel right now is down to the fact that Netanyahu has been supported and emboldened for years by the same evangelical right donors that are also Trump's most fervent supporters. To think that he's magically going to bring Netanyahu to heel is fantasy, magical thinking. He'll do whatever 2025's version of Sheldon Adelson wants him to do in Israel. Or be persuaded to let Israel sweep Gaza off the map so he can get in on the seaside real estatement investment opportunities that his son-in-law talked about.

So you're saying he'll just continue on doing what Biden is doing?

Also, drop the "it's evangelicals causing this" nonsense. Liberals have defended the genocide (including many on this board). Almost all Democrats in power support it. Biden has supported it for decades and is pushing for more of it.

[RainMaker]

Really?

Here's my list, again:
Withdrew from a nuclear arms treaty with Russia - Russia broke it and it's kind of silly to stay in a treaty if one side is not abiding by it. A lot you can criticize him for but continuing to abide by a treaty the other side isn't is really dumb. You somehow found the one Russia example where Trump was kind of tough on them.
Alternately increased defense funding and criticized the amount spent on defense - Biden has done this and is asking for hundreds of billions more in military aid for other countries to fight our proxy wars.

Pardoned and promoted soldiers who were convicted and accused, respectively, of war crimes - Biden has ignored all the war crimes being committed in Gaza with our support. He also voted for those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where this happened and said nothing about the war crimes the United States was committing while he was VP.
Increased drone strikes from the Obama Administration, and reduced transparency, including the Obama-era policy of reporting civilian deaths due to drone strikes - We're bombing Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Somalia in just the past couple months. We're providing weapons and support in bombings of many others.

Legitimized North Korea, removed sanctions placed on North Korea, and saluted North Korean generals - Which sanctions did he remove? I know he added a bunch when he was in power and even seized assets from NK. Worth noting that under Biden, NK is now much closer to Russia and is providing them with munitions to fight Ukraine. Not sure this is one you want to use.
Withdrew the U.S. from an Iranian sanctions program that then allowed Iran greater freedom to develop nuclear weapons
Removed support from the Kurds, causing them to ally with Syria against Turkey, another stated objective of Russia in the region - Biden literally just gave Turkey billions in military equipment to kill Kurds. You can't be serious. Fucking over the Kurds is sort of our thing.
Sold billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia, said great things about MBS, and condoned the murder of Jamal Khashoggi - No difference from what Biden is doing.
Gave legitimacy to the practice of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank - No difference from what Biden is doing.Which of those does Biden support?

Listed above. If you're looking for some big Biden foreign policy win, the withdrawal from Afghanistan was genuinely a good decision. Although it was mostly just a shift of one neverending war to prop up defense companies to another.


Also added this for your "pardon war criminals" point. :lol:

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST IN: The 🇺🇲 White House says there is no evidence that the 🇮🇱 IDF hit aid workers deliberately</p>&mdash; The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) <a href="https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1775245235104485411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[PilotMan]

This isn't genocide. It's exactly the sort of war that hawks want because it gets results. It's total war.

[RainMaker]

This isn't genocide. It's exactly the sort of war that hawks want because it gets results. It's total war.

Nazis said the same thing.

[RainMaker]

Also, what results are they getting? Starving a bunch of kids probably creates far more extremists than they can kill. Israel is sort of proof that committing genocide against a group creates extremists in that group in the aftermath.

[RainMaker]

This could be huge for the upcoming election. If it passes, it means Biden would have to win one of Georgia, Arizona, or Nevada where he is down heavily (assuming he can win Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania).

I'd be curious to see what that passing does to his odds. Seems like his best route was the MI, PA, WI path even if Michigan is a tall task now.



<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nebraska’s GOP governor says he’s a “strong supporter” of a proposal to return the state to a winner-take-all system for electoral votes. The state’s legislative session ends April 18. <a href="https://t.co/DXuZ2iutdI">https://t.co/DXuZ2iutdI</a></p>&mdash; Patrick Svitek (@PatrickSvitek) <a href="https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/1775290510233514322?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[Edward64]

Supposed Trump's VP list. My guess is Scott or Vance. Rubio should just say no and keep whatever pride he (and his wife) has left.

Just a moment... (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/31/inside-donald-trumps-apprentice-style-search-for-a-running-mate-00149827)
The names under consideration continue to be in flux, according to multiple people familiar with the list, who describe it as being in “pencil, not pen.” But it includes


Sens. Scott of South Carolina,
Vance of Ohio,
Katie Britt of Alabama and
Marco Rubio of Florida, as well as
Govs. Noem of South Dakota,
Sarah Huckabee Sanders of Arkansas and
Doug Burgum of North Dakota.
Donalds, the Florida representative, and
Gabbard, the former Hawaii representative,


among others, are also being considered or have been floated by Trump.

[Ksyrup]

I don't understand what Rubio would bring to the table, at all. It's like picking a slightly less annoying and polarizing Ted Cruz.

[Ksyrup]

This could be huge for the upcoming election. If it passes, it means Biden would have to win one of Georgia, Arizona, or Nevada where he is down heavily (assuming he can win Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania).

I'd be curious to see what that passing does to his odds. Seems like his best route was the MI, PA, WI path even if Michigan is a tall task now.



<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nebraska’s GOP governor says he’s a “strong supporter” of a proposal to return the state to a winner-take-all system for electoral votes. The state’s legislative session ends April 18. <a href="https://t.co/DXuZ2iutdI">https://t.co/DXuZ2iutdI</a></p>&mdash; Patrick Svitek (@PatrickSvitek) <a href="https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/1775290510233514322?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

This is one step in the process to ensure the deck is stacked for Trump. The other is legislatures ordering their state's slate of electors to vote for the candidate they tell them to.

[larrymcg421]

The founders intent thing is such BS. Winner take all wasn't a major thing until 1824.

[PilotMan]

Nazis said the same thing.


I think you win by equating Jews and Nazis on the same side of the table. Good going.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't understand what Rubio would bring to the table, at all. It's like picking a slightly less annoying and polarizing Ted Cruz.

Call it a hunch but ... it might merely be intended as an F.U. to DeSantis

[RainMaker]

I think you win by equating Jews and Nazis on the same side of the table. Good going.

I'm equating what Israel is doing to what the Nazis did. Genocide to continue their push for an ethnostate.

Judaism is a religion and no sovereign country owns it.

[RainMaker]

Couldn't Maine just do the same thing and even it all out?

[Edward64]

Call it a hunch but ... it might merely be intended as an F.U. to DeSantis

Hah, didn’t think of that! You may well be right.

[GrantDawg]

Call it a hunch but ... it might merely be intended as an F.U. to DeSantis
It would be a very fitting reason for Trump to pick his running mate. Just to piss a rival off.

[RainMaker]

Supposed Trump's VP list. My guess is Scott or Vance. Rubio should just say no and keep whatever pride he (and his wife) has left.

Just a moment... (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/31/inside-donald-trumps-apprentice-style-search-for-a-running-mate-00149827)

I think Stefanik has to be pretty high on the list. She's changed her entire political profile to lobby for the role. Plus I feel like Trump would be more comfortable with a New Yorker.

Still can't fathom Scott getting the nod. A closeted black man from South Carolina is not going to help much. I think Britt torpedoed her chance with the weird SOTU rebuttal.

If I was betting, I'd still take the field over any of the names listed. I think it'll be a woman who won't upstage Trump. Someone like Kim Reynolds.

[Swaggs]

I think Stefanik has to be pretty high on the list. She's changed her entire political profile to lobby for the role. Plus I feel like Trump would be more comfortable with a New Yorker.

Still can't fathom Scott getting the nod. A closeted black man from South Carolina is not going to help much. I think Britt torpedoed her chance with the weird SOTU rebuttal.

If I was betting, I'd still take the field over any of the names listed. I think it'll be a woman who won't upstage Trump. Someone like Kim Reynolds.

Reynolds endorsed Desantis, so she seems doubtful. I think Noem fits the profile.

[Atocep]

Reynolds endorsed Desantis, so she seems doubtful. I think Noem fits the profile.

Noem likes to be in the media too much. Trump doesn't want someone that's going to pull attention away from him.

[Ryche]

I'll be quite surprised if he doesn't pick a white guy ala Pence. Burgum seems like a fit, older white guy who made a lot of money.

[JPhillips]

Pence was perfect in that he didn't need a lot of attention and wasn't ever going to show enough charisma to outshine the boss. Meanwhile, he loved the job because Trump didn't care about policy and Pence could do whatever he wanted behind the scenes.

So many of the candidates for VP now are obviously trying to raise their own profile and I can't see Trump elevating them. They all want the job because they hope Trump dies soon.

[albionmoonlight]

Pence was a great pick.

The evangelicals are now 100% MAGA. But that wasn't the case in 2016. There were some folks who wondered if they would support such a . . . secular candidate. Pence was a (successful) way of courting them.

And the GOP had a lot more establishment leaders and voters in 2016. Picking a boring Midwestern governor was a sign to those folks that you could back Trump.

And, as others noted, he did not fight Trump for attention.

Really, in hindsight, one of the best picks he could have made. That he ended up helping save the Republic four years later was just a bonus for the rest of us :-)

[cuervo72]

Just pick one of his kids (or in-laws) who doesn't reside in Florida. Not sure why he'd want to risk dying and not passing the torch directly anyway.

[Thomkal]

He can always pick one of his fellow convicts like bannon or navarro and we can all learn about Vice Presidential Immunity"

[GrantDawg]

Just pick one of his kids (or in-laws) who doesn't reside in Florida. Not sure why he'd want to risk dying and not passing the torch directly anyway.
I am wondering why he hasn't. I guess it would be Don Jr. Ivanka has not exactly been as lockstep as Cocaine Cowboy has.

[GrantDawg]

BTW, No Labels has failed to find a candidate willing to run and will not be putting a Presidential candidate forward. Millions of dollars well laundered.

[RainMaker]

Don Jr is too coked up. Eric is too dumb. Ivanka already got her billions from the Saudis and has no reason jump in that mess again.

[RainMaker]

This has to be the dumbest country.


<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">God is sending America strong signs to tell us to repent.<br><br>Earthquakes and eclipses and many more things to come.<br><br>I pray that our country listens. ��</p>&mdash; Marjorie Taylor Greene ���� (@mtgreenee) <a href="https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1776282144416972941?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[JonInMiddleGA]

This has to be the dumbest country.


Oh she's a bonafide nutjob.

She occasionally entertains/amuses me, and at least she votes right most of the time ... but that's almost a stopped clock exception (or a savant skill).

She's a nutter ... and she's a near-perfect representative for that district tbh.

(A district that plays right into my contention that no candidate ever gets elected without votes from a fair number of pretty complete idiots)

[Ksyrup]

Her and a number of other people like her being voted into office seems to me to be a sign as well - a sign that, as Slayer says, God Hates Us All.

[RainMaker]

The earthquake is at least plausible if you're going that route because we don't really know when they'll happen. But I think we've been able to track eclipses for a few hundred years I believe.

[JPhillips]

It was centered pretty close to Trump's Bedminster course, so maybe God is pissed at the grifting Bible salesman.

[Thomkal]

So the house Dems after repubs introduced a bill to rename Dulles Airport in D.C. after Trump, had a much better suggestion:rename the miami correctional facility after Trump. I love this-we can send peter navarro, steve bannon, all jan 6 participants and planners, and trump lawyers when they all lose their license. i'm sure they can have a golf course there so Trump can cheat them all and say he won every match. yes i can see it now,,,


Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2024/04/05/democrats-donald-trump-rename-prison-miami?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_source=twitter)

[Lathum]

This isn't news but I just listened to Trumps response to the Florida 6 week abortion ban and how anyone can take him seriously is beyond me.

[albionmoonlight]

Trump says 100 crazy things a day in public, and none of it is widely reported.

He says one moderate thing (leave abortion to the states), and WaPost and NYT can't wait to make that their A1 headline.

The media isn't pro-Trump. But it is pro-clicks. Which amounts to the same thing.

[Atocep]

Trump says 100 crazy things a day in public, and none of it is widely reported.

He says one moderate thing (leave abortion to the states), and WaPost and NYT can't wait to make that their A1 headline.

The media isn't pro-Trump. But it is pro-clicks. Which amounts to the same thing.

In the NYT's case, they didn't like Hillary in 2016 so their coverage was anti-Hillary and mostly neutral for Trump. Which is pro Trump. For 2020 they realized Trump was bad for the country and pushed Biden. This election they seem to be repeating 2016.

[Atocep]

This isn't news but I just listened to Trumps response to the Florida 6 week abortion ban and how anyone can take him seriously is beyond me.

For wedge issues he goes with what polling shows. He's been 100% against abortion because that's what his base wanted. Now that it's losing elections he's trying to be more moderate.

He's doing the same with Israel. He would have been pushing Israel to flatten Gaza as president and early on was saying they need to see it through and finish the job. It's not polling well on the dem side so now he's saying slightly more moderate things. He's even admitted it's because they're not winning the PR war.

You still can't take anything he says seriously because once he's in office it's going to be Stephen Miller and others deciding policy while he chases revenge on the Biden administration. He's a useful tool for the real facists.

[Lathum]

He’s not winning any dems and very few independents talking about post birth abortions. That’s something only the most brainwashed on the right believes.

[Lathum]

I just saw a car with an "I love Catturd" magnet on the trunk. I hate this version of the simulation.

[NobodyHere]

Trump says 100 crazy things a day in public, and none of it is widely reported.

He says one moderate thing (leave abortion to the states), and WaPost and NYT can't wait to make that their A1 headline.

The media isn't pro-Trump. But it is pro-clicks. Which amounts to the same thing.

I agree on that abortion position though. Probably not a popular stance on this board though.

[GrantDawg]

I agree on that abortion position though. Probably not a popular stance on this board though.
Which position? That it should be up to the states, or that women should be put in prison for having abortions? He has held both.

[Ksyrup]

I will be pretty disappointed with the Biden campaign if they don't post a picture of Trump staring at the eclipse (from 2017).

[NobodyHere]

Which position? That it should be up to the states, or that women should be put in prison for having abortions? He has held both.

The states thing

[Atocep]

The states thing

I think there's a Healthcare standard for women that isn't met when it's left to the states.

Women shouldn't be going through the horror stories we're seeing because a bunch of old guys don't understand that abortion is a legit medical procedure.

[NobodyHere]

You do know that a sizable number of women also oppose abortion right?

[Lathum]

I agree on that abortion position though. Probably not a popular stance on this board though.

that post birth abortions are a thing?

[RainMaker]

You do know that a sizable number of women also oppose abortion right?

And I support their decision to not get one.

[Atocep]

You do know that a sizable number of women also oppose abortion right?

Those women tend to change their mind when they're put in a situation where their health is in danger or the child isn't viable.

The problem is the vast majority of people equate abortion to a form of birth control. It's a medical procedure and a lot of people have a very difficult time accepting that until they need one.

[GrantDawg]

We can see with the mess that we are having with the states that state mandates are just chaos. Even if you are for a general abortion ban, states shouldn't be putting burdens on women for general health and reproductive care. No one should have to hire a lawyer or go before a judge to get what is regular health procedures done. They definitely shouldn't have to go to another state for care nor face prosecution from their home state if they do.

[Atocep]

The abortion issue starts with the fact that we do an absolutely horrible job of teaching women's health in this country. It's better in some places than others, but there isn't a place in this country that teaches it well. Men, generally speaking, have no clue on women's health issues and a depressing number of women aren't much better.

The term abortion has a negative stigma attached to it even though it is a legitimate medical procedure that saves lives on a daily basis. There's a significant number of women in this country that have had abortions and have no idea they had one. Hospitals refer to them as D&Cs when discussing it with mothers because they don't want to even get into any religious or political debates when someone's life is in danger.

The issue with turning it over to the state is we now have various levels of standard care for women. What about exceptions for life of baby or mother? The problem is the wording. When you say there's an exception for life of baby or mother doctors now have to wait until the life is in danger before providing care that should have been given much earlier. Entopic pregnancies are just one example. We know that fetus isn't viable and will put the mother's life at risk. Doctor's in abortion banned states, right now, have to wait until that fetus puts the mother's life at risk before they can move forward with the abortion.

In Texas, since the abortion ban went into effect, infant deaths caused by severe genetic or birth defects has gone up over 20%. This puts a massive amount of undue suffering on families and a newborn child that wasn't viable from the beginning.

I work in a hospital, but I'm IT and by no means an expert on this. My wife, however, grew up in a very conservative Christian home that was and still is very anti-abortion. She was a medic for several years in the hospital I work in and saw these things first hand. She's now very passionate about reproductive rights and women's healthcare.

[Lathum]

We can see with the mess that we are having with the states that state mandates are just chaos. Even if you are for a general abortion ban, states shouldn't be putting burdens on women for general health and reproductive care. No one should have to hire a lawyer or go before a judge to get what is regular health procedures done. They definitely shouldn't have to go to another state for care nor face prosecution from their home state if they do.

It's like having a no peeing section in the pool.

the reality is this effects minority and low income people on a much higher level so the GOP doesn't care.

[JPhillips]

This is a nuclear bomb of an ad.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a painful story that so many families around America now know too well: Amanda was denied the medical care she needed, and it nearly took her life.<br><br>More than 1 in 3 women in America now lives under an abortion ban, with more on the way.<br><br>Donald Trump did this. <a href="https://t.co/2vH8EdzIw8">pic.twitter.com/2vH8EdzIw8</a></p>&mdash; Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1777379338574352399?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 8, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Qwikshot]

This is a nuclear bomb of an ad.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a painful story that so many families around America now know too well: Amanda was denied the medical care she needed, and it nearly took her life.<br><br>More than 1 in 3 women in America now lives under an abortion ban, with more on the way.<br><br>Donald Trump did this. <a href="https://t.co/2vH8EdzIw8">pic.twitter.com/2vH8EdzIw8</a></p>&mdash; Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1777379338574352399?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 8, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Arizona just banned abortions; women are cattle now.

[RainMaker]

The term abortion has a negative stigma attached to it even though it is a legitimate medical procedure that saves lives on a daily basis. There's a significant number of women in this country that have had abortions and have no idea they had one. Hospitals refer to them as D&Cs when discussing it with mothers because they don't want to even get into any religious or political debates when someone's life is in danger.

This is well said. I remember that one of the Duggar women had an abortion a couple years ago. The fetus was non-viable and maybe a danger to her at some point. But it was still an abortion. They of course didn't call it that. She was provided condolences (from the Governor even!) even though she broke the law in her state.

There was a great piece put together about people who work at these clinics. They came across a lot of conservative people, including those who had been protesting the clinic on a daily basis. They all had reasons why their abortion wasn't the same as other abortions. They were "too young" or "didn't want to ruin their life" or whatever reason they could use to justify why they were different.

In the end, this has never been about abortion. Most people support it when it comes down to it when it comes to their personal life. It's about controlling women. It's why things that reduce abortions like access to birth control and health care are rebuked by anti-abortion activists. Their goal isn't to reduce abortions.

[RainMaker]

This is a nuclear bomb of an ad.

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<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Since Dems have no issues to run on besides this, this is all they should be talking about. The people convincing them to run on immigration should be fired.

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[albionmoonlight]

With fluoride in dental products so we still need it in drinking water (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/10/with-fluoride-in-dental-products-so-we-still-need-it-in-drinking-water/73183454007/)

I'm going to start standing really close to particle accelerators and hope that I am jumped into another timeline. This one really is the stupidest of all possible worlds.

[flere-imsaho]

Trump sucks and all but his foreign policy is much better.

From the first Trump Administration, a short-list:


Withdrew the U.S. from an Iranian sanctions program that then allowed Iran greater freedom to develop nuclear weapons
Gave legitimacy to the practice of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank


These aged well.

[RainMaker]

West Bank settlements have been going on long before Trump (I understand this is new to some of you). Nuclear deal had nothing to do with Iran's retaliation. That deal didn't cause their consulate to get bombed.

I get your foreign policy stance is blowing up in your face again like people said it would (and like it has for 70 years). But it's going to be tough to blame this one on a guy who hasn't been in power in over 3 years.

[JPhillips]

Conveniently leaving out the execution of Iran's general and the retaliation of dozens of injured U.S. servicemen.

[RainMaker]

Conveniently leaving out the execution of Iran's general and the retaliation of dozens of injured U.S. servicemen.

The attack was retaliation against Israel for blowing up their consulate. It was not directed at American forces.

This is the result of Biden's foreign policy of letting Israel do whatever they want and to start a regional war. Not going to be able to orange man bad your way out of this one.

[Atocep]

Trump's lack of ground game and the RNC's lack of money to even have one is going to hurt them. Trump hasn't even had the money to have his rallies lately.

I guess the RNC also fired most of their experienced people due to failing the "loyalty test" they made them take to keep their jobs when Laura Trump took it over.

[Lathum]

Funny what happens when you get a reputation for not paying bills.

[RainMaker]

Trump's lack of ground game and the RNC's lack of money to even have one is going to hurt them. Trump hasn't even had the money to have his rallies lately.

I guess the RNC also fired most of their experienced people due to failing the "loyalty test" they made them take to keep their jobs when Laura Trump took it over.

I think it'll hurt them down ballot in a big way. Already seeing some people talk about how bad the Republicans Congressional hopes are looking. Think there is a good chance the House flips again which would at least be some check on Trump.

[RainMaker]

We already know what Trump's foreign policy would be. It would be doing what Putin wants the U.S. to do. Given that you seem totally fine with Putin being allowed to do what he wants to do, RM, I could see how you would come up with such a ridiculous statement.


This sounds like doing what Putin wants us to do. Tell us again how we care about Ukraine "winning" this war.

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[flere-imsaho]

Trump sucks and all but his foreign policy is much better. It'd keep us out of nevernding conflict in Ukraine and save hundreds of billions. Plus he at least seems to have a line with Israel committing genocide that Joe doesn't.

This aged well.