FOFC GroupThink 2024: We take over the (beloved) Arizona Cardinals

[QuikSand]

Fresh off our GRAND SUCCESSES of recent years:

FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=98066)

FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=98871)

...we now set our sights on a goal, to, uhh, idano, what do we do down here in cactusville anyway? RED STORM RISING or something? Maybe that needs to be part of the plan, let's get some of them Mad Men in here to help us sell this turd sandwich.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looking forward to helping out Thomkal’s beloved Cardinals. When we step in, the team makes the playoffs. Can we do it again?

[Thomkal]

Looking forward to helping out Thomkal’s beloved Cardinals. When we step in, the team makes the playoffs. Can we do it again?


god knows we need all the help we can get. A suggestion-only schedule teams who no one thinks they can beat.

[QuikSand]

...and we start right off by fumbling the #2 overall draft pick. Nice. Could make the QB decision that much stickier, right?

[Thomkal]

...and we start right off by fumbling the #2 overall draft pick. Nice. Could make the QB decision that much stickier, right?


yeah but i don't think that QB is the way to go-Murray appears to have recovered from his injury and they have so many other holes to fill.


The cards in my view have given up way too early on good talent on their team only to see them go on and have good success elsewhere, especially on the defensive side. so they need to keep players like Budda Baker who can be difference makers.

[CrimsonFox]

Fresh off our GRAND SUCCESSES of recent years:

FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=98066)

FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=98871)

...we now set our sights on a goal, to, uhh, idano, what do we do down here in cactusville anyway? RED STORM RISING or something? Maybe that needs to be part of the plan, let's get some of them Mad Men in here to help us sell this turd sandwich.

yayayaya I was going to make this if someone else didn't! Love those birds! Let's make them chirp!

[JPhillips]

Marvin Harrison Jr. is the obvious dream, but he may be gone. If one of the top 2 QBs is still available I'd look for a trade partner and see how many picks I could get for next year. I'd feel pretty good having 20-22 picks over the next two drafts.

[SirFozzie]

I agree. QB isn't quite.. solved.. per se (I need to see another good year from Murray before I say he's as good as people said he was), but the team has a LOT of need. Trade down, get as many high draft picks as possible, and look to kickstart a fast rebuild with needed positions.

[QuikSand]

ok, the internal trend feels like we stick with QB Murray, but I'd like to have a clearer sense of the contract/cap implications of a trade before doing so...

Kyler Murray Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap (https://overthecap.com/player/kyler-murray/7792)

wow, Kyler is only 26, yeah...

Well, a post-June 1 trade looks like it hits the Cards for "only" $13m a year for 24-25-26 ... that is a surprisingly team-friendly situation, in my mind.

My one vote here is still in play for the "move on from Murray and draft a QB here," FWIW. Not fully sold, but I'm not entirely in on him - and I'm not sure what we are trying to build here merits a top-tier QB salary for the 24 and 25 seasons. I'm thinking our focus is on being the obvious up-and-coming team for 2026 (thinking the 21-22-23 Lions arc).

[QuikSand]

...and a trade for Murray would yield the Cards...what, do we think? I'm guessing maybe one first round pick, or possibly something like the McCaffrey deal with more than one later picks. I don't think it's a Russ-like haul (two firsts plus players) but more like the Rodgers deal. 26, still coming off an injury but playing pretty well, but on a massive contract that would mostly be inherited.

[JPhillips]

Would you then trade up? I don't think you want the third-best QB which might be what you get picking fourth. Is Daniels an upgrade?

From a Chicago perspective, I'd love to have Arizona as a trade partner. If I can get the two firsts plus that fills a lot of holes.

[QuikSand]

I will try to think about it this way... let's say that whatever we could get for Murray would be enough to move up from our pick to 1.1 to get the top QB on our board. For now, that doesn't feel too fanciful, but maybe it's a bit optimistic. Maybe I will mentally add in a 2025 2nd as well.

But that's how I'm thinking about it, I guess.

Mentally my rankings are about here:

BEST
.
.
.
-build around top drawer rookie QB
-build around Murray on current contract
.
.
.
-fill-in at QB while we build, develop long tern QB plan later
.
.
.
WORST

[Bobble]

This is probably not needed on a sports management sim site but we have to consider salary and everything else in a Kyler Murray deal. This article from Bleacher Report suggest that Kyler's contract makes him untradeable (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096933-kyler-murrays-cardinals-contract-deemed-not-tradeable-by-nfl-execs-amid-rumors). I don't know about all that but we might want to temper our excitement on what we might get back from a Kyler trade.

Aside: Where do we discuss what we think the Bears should do with the first pick, another first rounder, and Justin "I-don't-know-what-we-have-here" Fields? Dueling GroupThink threads?!?!?

[cartman]

Do we hire a new coach that was recently fired from his college job?

[Brian Swartz]

I would think the Justin Fields (and whatever else) could go well in the general NFL thread.

[Thomkal]

I will try to think about it this way... let's say that whatever we could get for Murray would be enough to move up from our pick to 1.1 to get the top QB on our board. For now, that doesn't feel too fanciful, but maybe it's a bit optimistic. Maybe I will mentally add in a 2025 2nd as well.

But that's how I'm thinking about it, I guess.

Mentally my rankings are about here:

BEST
.
.
.
-build around top drawer rookie QB
-build around Murray on current contract
.
.
.
-fill-in at QB while we build, develop long tern QB plan later
.
.
.
WORST


i just think there in no rookie QB that can duplicate what murray can do right now. just look at the qb's who went to carolina and houston this draft-they are a crap shoot-so I think the cards need to build around murray at this point. Go after some quality free agents and fill in with the draft.

[Carman Bulldog]

i just think there in no rookie QB that can duplicate what murray can do right now. just look at the qb's who went to carolina and houston this draft-they are a crap shoot-so I think the cards need to build around murray at this point. Go after some quality free agents and fill in with the draft.
Not to mention that even if the rookie QB pans out (always debatable), the first few years of his rookie deal are going to be wasted building up the rest of the roster. Cards are 9th in available cap space for next season, so there's plenty of room to build the roster out, even without moving on from Murray.

I think the play is keep Murray, build the roster out and move back where feasible to continue to accumulate future picks (except with the 4th overall pick if Harrison is still there).

[RainMaker]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think Murray is that bad. If I'm the Cardinals, I'm going hard for MJH.

[SirFozzie]

Let's look at Murray:

154-238 (64.7% Completed), 1537 yards (6.5 avg) 9 TD, 5 INT #17 in the league in QBR.

Not super great, but not bad, especially when you consider he was working back up to live game time.

4 years left on the 5 Year deal he signed: It'd be an $81 million cap hit to drop him (pre-June 1, after June 1 it's a $48 million next year, $10 or so million the three remaining hits)

So, obviously cutting him is a non-starter.

Right now, they have #4 and #17 (Houston's) as well as Murray. You're probably not getting a first rounder back for Murray. Is it worth spending the draft capital to move up to the top 3 to get one of the QB's in this draft?

I don't think so. Instead, 2024 should be Murray's make or break year. If it's break, you're likely drafting high again anyway. If he makes it, his contract is not as much as an issue. (relatively speaking, a big name QB is going to cost AT LEAST that much).

Instead, look to improve around him. Marvin Harrison Jr, is probably the best play at #4 if available, and then top OL talent middle of the first round to protect him (remember, he's missed three games at least a year due to injury). I would also look to see if Brissett, Joe Flacco, or someone at that level to be the backup, just in case.

In the offseason, they have about $53 million in cap space, so again, let's work on building up.

[JPhillips]

If you can get Pennix with one of the third-rounders that's a nice development plan. I don't know if he'll last that long, though.

[Atocep]

If you can get Pennix with one of the third-rounders that's a nice development plan. I don't know if he'll last that long, though.

I'm not high on a 6th year senior that's going to be 24.5 at the start of his rookie year. He's going to get drafted way too high.

[CrimsonFox]

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/414878970_317588904365101_8205026291277026109_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=3635dc&_nc_ohc=YWVm1AHt5ikAX_bfZav&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA7zVgDPqDFf4RKB0O1gOHbUg8ZJ6bP7M--JjCw4GpUqQ&oe=659AE0DD

[albionmoonlight]

My initial feeing is keep Murray and draft the best non-QB at 4.

[albionmoonlight]

subject to change, etc.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Unless we're willing to trade up to number one or two, I don't think the the third QB overall is worth giving up on Murray and the headache of having to trade him.

I just ran two three-round mocks through PFF and Marvin Harrison JR was available both times. I don't think we can rely on that, but, as of now, it looks like the fourth pick overall will either be MHJ or tackle out of Penn State.

If we had a choice between Maye and Williams and Murray, I think it'd be a harder call.

[JPhillips]

I'm not high on a 6th year senior that's going to be 24.5 at the start of his rookie year. He's going to get drafted way too high.

I'm not high on him as a first rounder, but for a team with three third rounders and a need for a backup, I think he'd be a nice fit. I like the fact that he's older and has experience in multiple systems. He's accurate, runs progressions well, and is always calm. He'd be a nice backup with the potential to start if Murray is hurt and he wouldn't cost much.

Admittedly this probably means you start with a QB controversy and that isn't ideal.

[CrimsonFox]

Let's get the Titans former head coach in here and lead us to victory!

[QuikSand]

Overall, I'm fine daydreaming about getting MHJr but it's probably more productive to heavily consider the seemingly likely situation that pick 4 comes up with him and the top two QBs all off the board.

That puts us at the start of a new "tier" (as I see it) and that's usually a provocative place to be selecting. We get a top-graded tackle, or a pass rusher, or the next best WR, most likely. Or we deal down if there's a demand.

[Carman Bulldog]

Let's get the Titans former head coach in here and lead us to victory!
I don't know if Gannon's the answer but I wouldn't replace him at this stage. Cards went 3-5 in their last 8 games once Murray got back. Most pre-season win projections had them as the worst team in the NFL. They played hard from the start of the season to the end. Guys not quitting says something to me about coaching.

I also look at the disaster that the Philadelphia defence was this season compared to last year and attribute at least some of that drop to Gannon's absence.

[QuikSand]

Jayden Daniels creeping into the top 2-3 slots in mock drafts is VERY good news for our Cardinals. Keep the hype machine rolling.

[JPhillips]

I just can't see MHJ getting to four, but if he's there he's the obvious pick. I think he's the most surefire prospect in the draft. He's big, fast, good hands, runs good routes, works hard, and has great pedigree. He's as close to a can't miss as comes.

Which is why I can't see him getting to four.

[GrantDawg]

All three teams in the top three need quarterbacks, and there are three top quarterbacks available. If any of those teams don't want one of those three QBs, then they can get a ransom from someone who does. Unless one of those QB's fall on their face between now and the draft, they are going one, two, three.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

It may play out that way, but I'm not taking the third QB over MHJ

[GrantDawg]

So the Patriots should keep rolling out Mac Jones?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[GrantDawg]

And if the Patriots don't want Jayden Daniels, the Falcons would happily trade up to get him. And I don't think they are the only ones.

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[JPhillips]

So the Patriots should keep rolling out Mac Jones?

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I don't think Daniels is anywhere close to a sure thing and I'd rather get a midQB like Baker Mayfield and then get the best WR available. If you pick Daniels you're all-in with that for the next three years. It's the kind of pick that gets GMs fired. Nobody will look back and blame a GM for picking Harrison.

[QuikSand]

Back to the Cards.

QB3 stock rising is excellent for us at 4. Increasing chances of us either getting MHJr or there being a desirable QB on the board for which someone may be willing to overpay (by the book). If we feel like there's a cliff effect after MHJr then that would be a really good thing...deal down to pick 10 and pick up "one of the tackles/edges" or whatever and accumulate other capital.

[CrimsonFox]

What if they got Big V to Head Coach!

[JPhillips]

If MHJ is there, he's the pick. I like trading down as there are a number of tackles and I don't think there's much difference between WR2 and WR5.

What about 4 for MIN 11, 42, & 109? If Daniels isn't the NE pick MIN would be a good team to lure up to take him.

[albionmoonlight]

IMO, by the time the draft is here, the consensus top three picks will be QBs.

[albionmoonlight]

Kyler and MHJr running around doing Kyler and MHJr things will be a Sunday Ticket staple.

[QuikSand]

If MHJ is there, he's the pick. I like trading down as there are a number of tackles and I don't think there's much difference between WR2 and WR5.

What about 4 for MIN 11, 42, & 109? If Daniels isn't the NE pick MIN would be a good team to lure up to take him.

I think I'm with you on both segments here. My ranked order:

Take WR Harrison and profit
Get a juicy trade-down deal for value this year or next, and take a quality guy
Take the top guy from our next tier

...and it sounds like this might be more or less consensus in the thread thus far.

[Thomkal]

Sadly the WR corps used to be one of the strongest, but now looks like one of the weakest. Guess it would depend on who fell to them at 4, and who might be willing to trade up for a QB if one of the top 3 is still available.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Do we have a good breakdown on what our team needs are?

I know WR is one and, based off PFF, OL, DL. LB and CB are, also, needs, but I don't know if its interior line, tackle, edge, interior defense, etc. It could just be all largely "all of the above".

With the raise of Jadyn Daniels and all of the picks we have in the first three rounds, a solid draft could really accelerate this rebuild. In some ways, it's not too terribly different than the Lions a few years ago. While no one (other than them) really thought they had the QB position locked up in Goff, they did and then were able to use that first draft - Sewell, McNeil, St. Brown, and others - to jump start the rebuild.

We have Murray at QB and if we hit on these early round picks, we could really be setting up something special for a while.

[QuikSand]

First question about the receiving corps, Marquise Brown is a pending free agent. I'm not in favor of pre-empting that by paying market price (or more) there, but that's potentially on the table for us as the incumbent.

[Honolulu_Blue]

First question about the receiving corps, Marquise Brown is a pending free agent. I'm not in favor of pre-empting that by paying market price (or more) there, but that's potentially on the table for us as the incumbent.

I think I let him walk. While I really liked him coming out of college, I haven't been overly impressed by him in the NFL. With Michael Wilson coming on last year and the ability to draft MHJ, I think Brown is expendable and we can use our resources elsewhere.

We didn't trade a first round pick for him, that was the prior regime.

[CrimsonFox]

put the WR. WHo cares. There are 4 more crappy WR ready to play for nothing.

[albionmoonlight]

Looking only at his stats, he's averaging ~60 catches for ~650 yards and ~3 TDs for the Cards.

That seems very replaceable.

If he loves the desert, etc. and he's wiling to play for a team-friendly deal, then great. But assuming his assessment of his value is still based on 3 years ago, I think you let him hit the market.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: If MHJ is off the board, then having needs at CB and OT isn't the worst thing for this team b/c there seem to be some top guys at that position that could be justified at #4

[Thomkal]

Looking only at his stats, he's averaging ~60 catches for ~650 yards and ~3 TDs for the Cards.

That seems very replaceable.

If he loves the desert, etc. and he's wiling to play for a team-friendly deal, then great. But assuming his assessment of his value is still based on 3 years ago, I think you let him hit the market.


This i agree with he really didn't show too much i think because he was injured a lot? He seems to have a bond/be friends with murray, so keeping him around if he doesn't break the bank is a possibility I guess.

[QuikSand]

Okay... I'll try to add something useful here. The last regime was unwilling to "eat their vegetables" and commit to unexciting spots like the OL (until last draft). So, let's have a look at the state of the OL right now... 2023 performance ratings from PFF:

https://snipboard.io/4wR5QL.jpg

(the three ratings visible are overall offense, then pass block, run block)

Here's the OTC analysis of our cap/contract situation:
Arizona Cardinals Salary Cap | Over the Cap (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/arizona-cardinals)

So, from that I take away:

T Parris Johnson is still penciled in as a long term asset, first year was okay, tackles tend to put it together in years 2-4, so... one spot down.

Veteran DJ Humphries, 30, sadly trimmed from the screenshot, sorry, rated just barely better than Johnson. Mediocre grade for a guy who's considered solid. $23m cap number for 2024. I think it's in play either to consider him part of the short term plan, or to explore moving him and getting younger, especially in a deep OT draft.

C Froholdt, 27, is a standard replacement-level IOL, making $3.8m next year and probably worth it, at least on a roster with a ton of other needs. So, keeper, I reckon.

RG Hernandez kinda similar... performance last year was solid, but he's costing $5.3m next year. Open to arguments either way here.

LG feels wide open. Wilkinson and Colon were both subpar, and are both free agents. If we keep both C and RG occupied by known quantity veterans, then maybe a 3rd/4th round pick at guard makes sense for us?

[JPhillips]

Humphries only frees 9 mil or so in cap space, so I'm not sure he's worth cutting now, but he frees up almost 16 mil after June 1, so that seems enticing.

[albionmoonlight]

Humphries only frees 9 mil or so in cap space, so I'm not sure he's worth cutting now, but he frees up almost 16 mil after June 1, so that seems enticing.

One question with cap space though. Cap space to do what? It should never be an end to itself. One should always have some sort of a idea of what to do with it over the next couple of seasons.

[QuikSand]

So here's a strawman... team need appears to be interior DL. PFF says we might have something in young DT Roy Lopez, but little else of real value.

A top-of-market deal is likely coming for emerging star DT Justin Madubuike. It's going to take a lot of money and likely 4 years. Do we think that sort of move for us here, makes any sense?

I think JM is likely a good risk for a team in position to make such a move (thinking Houston, frex)... but with a losing record and a $50m QB, does it make sense for us here?

[QuikSand]

For easy reading, here's what OTC says is our overall 2024 cap situation:

Total Cap Liabilities: $218,364,582
Top 51: $196,020,670
Team Cap Space: $41,855,463

Offense: $126,647,216
Defense: $72,018,454
Special: $5,547,333

[albionmoonlight]

So here's a strawman... team need appears to be interior DL. PFF says we might have something in young DT Roy Lopez, but little else of real value.

A top-of-market deal is likely coming for emerging star DT Justin Madubuike. It's going to take a lot of money and likely 4 years. Do we think that sort of move for us here, makes any sense?

I think JM is likely a good risk for a team in position to make such a move (thinking Houston, frex)... but with a losing record and a $50m QB, does it make sense for us here?

I don't think we are close enough to make a move like that.

[JPhillips]

I'm only cutting DJ if I can draft a solid tackle, which seems very possible with the first round picks. It' less I want to cut him and more I don't need a 23 mil bench player and almost anything I spend the money on is a better option.

I think the Cards should absolutely look for a big FA pickup. They are going to bring in a lot of guys in the draft and they need high character and high achieving role models around the locker room. And in the NFC there's no reason why they can't be a playoff team next year.

[albionmoonlight]

Early buzz is that the other two big WRs past MHJr would normally be WR1 in most other drafts.

If MHJr goes in the top three, then I wonder if one of our former teams (NYG) might be enticed to trade up from 6 to 4 to grab the third QB.

That keeps us in position to draft one of the two other stud WRs and lets us pick up a little extra draft sugar.

Or, if the the QBs go 1-3, then MHJr still seems like the "don't overthink it" pick.

[albionmoonlight]

dola

Or how about this. Daniel Jones has $35,000,000 fully guaranteed base salary this year. The Cards have a lot of cap space.

The Cards trade #4 to the Giants for #6 and Daniel Jones and a future first (for taking Jones contract off their hands).

Cards get a decent backup for Murry. Giants can move on and start anew with a rookie.

The only catch is that the Cards pick at 4, so the Giants could not be guaranteed to get one of the three QBs there . . .

So close.

[CrimsonFox]

So when we win the superbowl, we should NOT have a parade.

[CrimsonFox]

dola

Or how about this. Daniel Jones has $35,000,000 fully guaranteed base salary this year. The Cards have a lot of cap space.

.

But do the Cards have anyone worth keeping for big bucks?

[JPhillips]

If MHJ is gone before 4 what about the late first rounder to Cincy for Tee Higgins?

[CrimsonFox]

Got an idea. Order some WRs from temu

[stevew]

dola

Or how about this. Daniel Jones has $35,000,000 fully guaranteed base salary this year. The Cards have a lot of cap space.

The Cards trade #4 to the Giants for #6 and Daniel Jones and a future first (for taking Jones contract off their hands).

Cards get a decent backup for Murry. Giants can move on and start anew with a rookie.

The only catch is that the Cards pick at 4, so the Giants could not be guaranteed to get one of the three QBs there . . .

So close.

What about something like-

Cards acquire Wilson, Jeudy and a Broncos 2nd for a 5th. The Broncos eat some amount of his guaranteed money(20 mil?) but not all of it. Wilson gets 2-3 million additional to accept the trade with the understanding he will be subsequently traded to a team of his choice. Arizona then gets a conditional 2025 4th for warehousing 20 mill or so retained salary on him in a trade when they ship him to Pitts or Min. Pick upgrades 1 round for Playoffs and elevates 1 more round for each playoff victory.

Cards end up with a usable WR, a second and an upside 2025 pick for 32 mil or so in cap space.

[QuikSand]

What about something like-

...

Cards end up with a usable WR, a second and an upside 2025 pick for 32 mil or so in cap space.

I would be very interested in something like that, if we could use the cap space as a bargaining tool. I think it's far fetched, but i like the spirit a ton and this sort of setup especially. Jeudy still feels to me like he could be unlocked and is a nice buy low candidate for someone roughly where we are in the build-up cycle.

[QuikSand]

https://snipboard.io/bYOsca.jpg
(image was huge, so just the link now)

First full run through. The PFF engine really skews toward the guys they grade highly, so this tends to bias the picks a lot that way.

Anyway, MHJr first T Alt went at pick 3) then a lot of logicals - assuming top needs are OL, DI, and CB.

[flere-imsaho]

Got an idea. Order some WRs from temu

I've heard they dissolve in rain, much like everything else from temu.

[Thomkal]

The Athletic takes a look at the top 10 picks after the combine. The Cards actually have the most draft capital coming into the draft, so i'm not sure a trade back is in our best interest depending on what the trade is. It really looks like they are going for WR Harrison with the 4th pick-and if he's gone maybe an OL?


What did we learn at the NFL combine about teams with top-10 draft picks? - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/5305781/2024/03/01/nfl-draft-2024-combine-top-10-quarterbacks/?source=freeweeklyemail&campaign=602288&userId=12743780)

[CrimsonFox]

I've heard they dissolve in rain, much like everything else from temu.

If you order a QB from Temu you get Justin Fields

[BYU 14]

If you order a QB from Temu you get Justin Fields

Fields is more Goodwill, gently used, Temu would be Zach Wilson

[CrimsonFox]

I hear Russell Wilson is available. Someone said he plans to win the super bowl.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Athletic polled a six NFL executives to create a mock draft for the first 10 picks. The picks for the Cards were: 2 for MHJ (WR), 2 for Joe Alt (T), and 2 for Dallas Turner (Edge).

So, they're split among what appears to be our beloved team's three top needs: WR, offensive line, and some juice on defense.

In the mock, they ended up taking Dallas Turner.

I've run a lot of PFF mock drafts with the Cards and have never really entertained Turner.

It could make sense, I guess. The edge class is pretty thin, especially compared to the WR class. I am not sure how good the tackles are outside of the first round, but it could be possible to get a starting tackle with that second first round pick.

[Thomkal]

They are all needs for the Cards, so going with the dreaded 'best player available' would seem to be in play here. I'm still thinking they are going to go with MHJ, but i know they have talked to a couple OL men at the top of their list.

[Thomkal]

cards open up free agency by signing CB Sean Murphy-Bunting bringing much needed help to the secondary and DT Bilal nichols who i'm not familar with

[QuikSand]

From PFF instant analysis:

DI JUSTIN JONES SIGNS WITH ARIZONA CARDINALS
2023 PFF Grade: 49.3 (107th/130)
2023 PFF WAR: -0.02 (179th)
Fit/need grade: A
Value grade: C-
Contract: Three years, $30.1 million ($10.33 million per year), $19.75 million total guaranteed
PFF projected contract: N/A
Jones brings a high motor and was the Bears’ Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee in 2023, always quick to talk some trash and energize the defense. Nonetheless, this payday dramatically outpaces his down-to-down production. He does have some occasional splash plays that illustrate what made him a Day 2 draft pick, but this is probably the deal we view as the most player-friendly signing so far this offseason.

CB SEAN MURPHY-BUNTING SIGNS WITH ARIZONA CARDINALS
2023 PFF Grade: 57.6 (89th/127)
2023 PFF WAR: -0.02 (201st)
Fit/need grade: A
Value grade: C-
Contract: Three years, $25.5 million ($8.5 million per year), $17.5 million total guaranteed
PFF projected contract: One year, $4 million, $3.25 million total guaranteed
With the added and important context that there were virtually zero free-agent options at cornerback not nearing 30 years old, it makes sense that Murphy-Bunting was able to cash in big time. The former No. 39 overall pick has good size at 6-foot and 195 pounds, and he recorded four interceptions to go along with nine more pass breakups over the past two seasons. Cardinals head coach Jonathan Gannon used to coach defensive backs, so he’ll try to tap into Murphy-Bunting's physical gifts in his third stop.

[QuikSand]

Did a mock draft for the Cards... with MHL off the board I dealt down with Chicago getting their 1st next year and still getting DE Turner at pick 9:

https://snipboard.io/XnlQkH.jpg

[JPhillips]

Not in love with the Jonah Williams deal, but I guess that takes OT off of the draft board.

[Thomkal]

Not in love with the Jonah Williams deal, but I guess that takes OT off of the draft board.




Yes and no-Cards also released T DJ Humphries who is recovering from a knee injury. So there was a need for a replacement there and I was reading about Williams that he has almost never been hurt-maybe missed 1 game? So if he can keep that up, could be a very good signing,

[Thomkal]

well this was unexpected-falcons trading desmond ridder to the Cards for WR Rondale Moore.

[Thomkal]

With this trade, I have to think the cards will draft a WR in round 1

[Honolulu_Blue]

All signs seem to point that way. It has to be WR or maybe tackle.

[GrantDawg]

You are very welcome to Ridder. The secret to him is only start him if you want to get your coach/OC fired.

[QuikSand]

Seems like WR in ink now. Yup. If not MHJr then just take whichever you you like best, or this year especially, maybe trade down a bit (again) and still do so.

[Thomkal]

You are very welcome to Ridder. The secret to him is only start him if you want to get your coach/OC fired.


Too early for that in Arizona. :) Cards didn't really have a good option for a backup with rookie Tune looking pretty awful in his start last year. moore never really showed flashes that he was going to be a good wr, so maybe the change of scenery will help them both

[GrantDawg]

It is the right year for it. You are not going wrong with MHJ, Nabers or Odunze. Any of those three should be a solid choice.

[GrantDawg]

Too early for that in Arizona. :) Cards didn't really have a good option for a backup with rookie Tune looking pretty awful in his start last year. moore never really showed flashes that he was going to be a good wr, so maybe the change of scenery will help them both
Ridder is a coaches son and seems to be very smart. He has an arm, he has speed, he just doesn't seem to have the ability to process fast enough for the league. He also just can't take a hit and hold on to the ball. IDK if that can be coached out of him, because I have heard arguments it just might be because of his arm length on his frame.

[albionmoonlight]

If Minnesota calls and offers Justin Jefferson straight up for the number four, and Jefferson and his agent want a market setting contract, but not star QB money, the Cardinals should jump on that, right?

[GrantDawg]

If Minnesota calls and offers Justin Jefferson straight up for the number four, and Jefferson and his agent want a market setting contract, but not star QB money, the Cardinals should jump on that, right?
What about number 4 and your first next year?

[QuikSand]

If Minnesota calls and offers Justin Jefferson straight up for the number four, and Jefferson and his agent want a market setting contract, but not star QB money, the Cardinals should jump on that, right?

right

[JPhillips]

I'd have to really think about 30 mil per year or MHJ and 20 mil worth of FA. In terms of wins, how much of a difference would there be?

[QuikSand]

I'd have to really think about 30 mil per year or MHJ and 20 mil worth ONE STARTING CALIBER LINEMAN. In terms of wins, how much of a difference would there be?

ftfy, $20M isn't what it used to be

[JPhillips]

I'd pick Jefferson over any of the other draft eligible receivers, I just think MHJ is as close to can't miss as we've seen. I'd be very surprised if he isn't a multiple All-Pro over his career. Given that, I'd have to really think about what I could do with him and the money over the next four years.

I also worry that Murray as QB limits the peak production of any WR.

[JPhillips]

Everybody seems to be agreeing that MHJ will be there at 4. That alone makes this draft a big winner for AZ.

[GrantDawg]

And if you want to trade down, there will be opportunities. The Vikings are going to be looking to move ahead of the Giants. The Cards are probably going to have the option between both of them and possibly another. If not you, then almost certainly the Chargers will.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[QuikSand]

Did a 4-round mock draft for the Cards and was open to trading down... got what feels like quite a haul here:

12.
Laiatu Latu
EDGE UCLA

27.
Adonai Mitchell
WR Texas

35.
T.J. Tampa
CB Iowa State

66.
Kris Jenkins
DT Michigan

71.
Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
OC Georgia

90.
Jermaine Burton
WR Alabama

105.
MarShawn Lloyd
RB USC

2025 DEN 1st
2025 DEN 2nd

via Just a moment... (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft)

[QuikSand]

and another one with no trades:

4.
Marvin Harrison Jr.
WR Ohio State

27.
Johnny Newton
DT Illinois

35.
Christian Haynes
OG UConn

66.
Bralen Trice
EDGE Washington

71.
D.J. James
CB Auburn

90.
Audric Estime
RB Notre Dame

104.
Josh Newton
CB TCU

[bhlloy]

I think Marshawn Lloyd is going to be a very, very productive NFL back if given the chance.

[albionmoonlight]

Getting that Denver 1st and 2nd could be a real gamechanger. Basically a repeat of CHI/CAR from this draft.

[GrantDawg]

That first mock draft is just fire. If they could get that and those picks, they would be golden.

[QuikSand]

Insane value using the PFF Mock Drafter, and just taking need-influenced BPA:

https://snipboard.io/Tv2oE9.jpg

Absurd.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Insane value using the PFF Mock Drafter, and just taking need-influenced BPA:

https://snipboard.io/Tv2oE9.jpg

Absurd.

That’s an insane draft! I’ve done a lot of PFF mocks for the Cards and Lions and that’s as good a one I’ve seen.

[QuikSand]

That’s an insane draft! I’ve done a lot of PFF mocks for the Cards and Lions and that’s as good a one I’ve seen.

and I take no credit for it, no trades, nothing clever, just the 2nd and 3rd guys we selected fell well beyond where they usually do and Cards were in the right place, right time to get both

[QuikSand]

the world is cooling on MHJr, are we?

[JPhillips]

Fuck no!

I still think he's the safest pick in all of the draft.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I’m not cooling on him. I think he’ll be great.

[Atocep]

the world is cooling on MHJr, are we?

I think Nabors is dead even with him overall and likely has a higher ceiling. Then a little drop off to Odunze.

With a solid QB in place I'd take Nabors. If I'm building with a young QB I'd take Harrison for the higher floor.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not. MHJr. not being WR1 feels like the "people need something interesting to say" stage of pre-draft discussion.

IMO, it'll go QB, QB, QB, MHJr, just like we all suspected a month ago, but there's only so much milage the offseason shows can get saying that over and over.

[stevew]

Kyler Murray to the Commanders is an NFL Draft trade that makes too much sense for everyone - SBNation.com (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2024/4/11/24127421/kyler-murray-commanders-trade-nfl-draft-cardinals)

SBNation proposed-

Arizona Cardinals receive: No. 2 overall pick (2024)
Washington Commanders receive: QB Kyler Murray, No. 27 overall pick (2024)


Doesn’t seem like Murray would have such significant value, the trade values him like a #4-5 overall choice.


Murray’s value would seem to be more in line with the 40th pick, so for Arizona to move to #2 they’d have to give up something like 4 and 27 to move to 2

Which leaves you with
wash-Murray/4/27
Ari-2/40

Eh?

[albionmoonlight]

I agree that that seems like a pretty ARI-friendly trade.

Does ARI eat a ton of his cap with that trade or something?

[Thomkal]

I just can't see the Cards trading Murray at this point. He bounced back well from his injury and seems to have his confidence back. Who then would you trade for? an untested QB who might set the team back 10 years if he doesn't work out. (Hello Josh Rosen taken 10th overall).

[QuikSand]

Using the PFF draft tool is becoming frustrating/boring... I am routinely seeing what I feel are unrealistic guys landing with the picks at 27 and 35.

Last cycle:
1.04 WR MHarrison Jr
1.27 CB Nate Wiggins (might be my CB2 in this draft, ought to go by pick 20)
2.03 C Jackson Powers-Johnson (seeing him routinely mocked in the 20s)

...I mean that's great, but I don't feel like I'm "making good decisions" other than sitting and watching top rated need guys land in my lap here. Often it's DT Newton, whom PFF grades as a top-10 guy, who is there for one or both of the later ARZ selections.

[QuikSand]

I agree that that seems like a pretty ARI-friendly trade.

Does ARI eat a ton of his cap with that trade or something?

OTC says Arizona would eat #34m in cap space with a trade before June 1. That seems... surmountable, since if you do that you are effectively throwing in the towel on this season anyway. OTC shows them currently with $29m in space this year, so assuming the entire cap hit were absorbed in 2024... fine, eat it all now, and next year you just get to go out and eat.

[henry296]

Powers may be slipping. Kiper's last mock had him at #47.

[B & B]

Kiper has been mostly irrelevant for years.

Personally I like Powers and if (dont think) he slips out of the first round he will become a 'trading post' player for some team to move up in the 2nd and grab him immediately.

[QuikSand]

Kiper has been mostly irrelevant for years.


For plugged-in wiseguys like you and me, sure. His stuff stull definitely moves the needle in the betting markets, more than anyone else's.

Whether it's just the name, or the ESPN brand, or some sense that "he's talking to people" he remains a force of gravity in this sphere.

It might, however, be the case that there's an anti-Kiper angle in betting markets, honestly.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I forget where I heard or read it, but I heard or read that NFL teams may not be as high on Powers-Johnson as the draft media world is. I think he looks great, but I’ve barely seen him play outside of highlights.

[QuikSand]

everyone is looking for the next Tank Dell, the smallish productive guy that seems so obvious to succeed as a superslot... maybe it's Malik Washington?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHgc1W52RmA

He's in my Cards mocks from here on out, independent of whether I target WR early. They need bodies there.

[Honolulu_Blue]

everyone is looking for the next Tank Dell, the smallish productive guy that seems so obvious to succeed as a superslot... maybe it's Malik Washington?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHgc1W52RmA

He's in my Cards mocks from here on out, independent of whether I target WR early. They need bodies there.

I’m all in on Malik Washington! All. In.

[albionmoonlight]

So one easy trade that would be great value for the Cards would be if the QBs go 1-3, and teams start freaking out about missing McCarthy. Then the Giants could offer an easy 1.6 + [value] for 1.4.

The Cards still get one of their top 2 WR (and maybe even their #1 if the Chargers go with Alt) and some extra sugar basically for nothing.

That's a situation where if I am ARI, I'm letting NY know before the draft that I'll give them a bit of a discount on that deal.

[CrimsonFox]

okay Thomkal and co, where's your Cards Mock Draft

[Thomkal]

So one easy trade that would be great value for the Cards would be if the QBs go 1-3, and teams start freaking out about missing McCarthy. Then the Giants could offer an easy 1.6 + [value] for 1.4.

The Cards still get one of their top 2 WR (and maybe even their #1 if the Chargers go with Alt) and some extra sugar basically for nothing.

That's a situation where if I am ARI, I'm letting NY know before the draft that I'll give them a bit of a discount on that deal.


Yeah the Cards are definitely in a good position to trade down if one of the QB's don't get taken in the first three.

[Thomkal]

okay Thomkal and co, where's your Cards Mock Draft


I'm borrowing HB's. :) I just don't have enough knowledge of the players to do a serious mock

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm borrowing HB's. :) I just don't have enough knowledge of the players to do a serious mock

Heh! Quik is killing it with his mocks for the beloved Cards. I’m loving them.

[QuikSand]

Another too-good PFF mock draft for the Cards:

-deal-down from 4 to 6 with the G-men, still get Nabers at 6 (realistic) and pick up two more picks including pick 47

-go counter-trend w Edge Latu at 27 (maybe unrealistic?) as I this he's now underrated in this draft and Edge is a semi-need anyway

-still get DT Newton with 35, then a CB I like (Rakestraw) with 47

https://snipboard.io/nJoZL5.jpg

[QuikSand]

From this site:
NFL Mock Draft Simulator | NFL Mock Draft Database (https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator)

1.4 easy turn down trades and take MHJr

1.27 trickier than PFF, i take G Barton ahead of JPJ

2.03 T Mims still here (!) and I do it, BPA play I guess

3.02 DT Kris Jenkins great fit at need we overlooked earlier

3.07 not in love here, but take CB Melton as need

3.26 missed out on WR Washington, go with WR Tez Walker

pick 104 TE Cade Stover as a BPA at semi-need position (in-line TE)

...i like it, that early 2nd is just a great slot to have someone unexpected fall into our lap.

[Thomkal]

So it looks like the Cards braintrust listened to most of us. :) Glad they went receiver

[QuikSand]

Funny... in a lot of my mock drafts, I got frustrated that I was often grabbing C JPJ and DT Newton at the 27/35 picks. And now, in the real draft, both are available at the top of round two.

[Passacaglia]

Can they get Darius Robinson's mom to play too?

[Thomkal]

Funny... in a lot of my mock drafts, I got frustrated that I was often grabbing C JPJ and DT Newton at the 27/35 picks. And now, in the real draft, both are available at the top of round two.


i think if they go secondary and O-line with today's picks I think they are having a good draft.

[QuikSand]

OK, so.. pick 35 seems very safe to get a highly graded interior OL, there are a handful still remaining. I don't see a serious need to trade down and gain capital, so I would be thinking that as Plan A.

If they loved a WR to augment the room they have, there's someone like AD Mitchell or Troy Franklin or Keon Coleman. By the books/experts/mocks also solid value of you do that.

And DB Cooper DeJean is a divisive prospect, but some have him graded really high, so he could be a BPA choice here. A couple corners like Tampa and McKinstry among the top overall players too.

Solid options for our Cards, with a couple of check marks already placed onto the needs list.

[JPhillips]

Kool-Aid
Powers-Johnson
DeJean

In that order.

[Atocep]

I really like AD Mitchell. I'd go there at 35 and look to trade up from round 3 to the back of round 2 to grab JPJ or Frazier, whichever one is still there. Frazier is the most ready to play day 1 and has the higher floor.

[CrimsonFox]

Hooray. The adorable cardinals took a RB

[JPhillips]

Not at all impressed with the Cards on day 2.

[QuikSand]

So, here's the Cards' draft:

Round
1
·
Pick 4
(4)
Marvin Harrison Jr.
WR
Ohio State
Round
1
·
Pick 27
(27)
Darius Robinson
DE
Missouri
HOU>ARI
Round
2
·
Pick 11
(43)
Max Melton
CB
Rutgers
ATL>ARI
Round
3
·
Pick 2
(66)
Trey Benson
RB
Florida State
Round
3
·
Pick 7
(71)
Isaiah Adams
G
Illinois
TEN>ARI
Round
3
·
Pick 18
(82)
Tip Reiman
TE
Illinois
IND>ARI
Round
3
·
Pick 27
(90)
Elijah Jones
CB
Boston College
HOU>ARI
Round
4
·
Pick 4
(104)
Dadrion Taylor-Demerson
SAF
Texas Tech
Round
5
·
Pick 3
(138)
Xavier Thomas
EDGE
Clemson
Round
5
·
Pick 27
(162)
Christian Jones
OT
Texas
HOU>ARI
Round
6
·
Pick 15
(191)
Tejhaun Palmer
WR
UAB
IND>ARI
Round
7
·
Pick 6
(226)
Jaden Davis
DB
Miami
NYG>ARI


Mixed reviews, overall. Not many guys I had in mind for them, to be honest. I had been taking a TE in most mocks, but never considered this guy whom they took ahead of some other logicals. Same for the RB - different guy than I had been trying to send them in the same general zone of the draft.

[CrimsonFox]

Also undrafted free agents

Arizona Cardinals
Colorado WR Xavier Weaver (source)
North Carolina IDL Myles Murphy (source)
North Carolina LS Joe Shimko (source)

[CrimsonFox]

hahaha there is a separate position wasted on this?

Long Snapper (LS) – The long snapper 'snaps' or passes the ball between his/her legs back to the punter. Holder (H) – The Holder will catch the ball from the long snapper's pass and hold it in place for the Kicker Placekicker. The Holder will usually position him/herself 7-8 yards behind the offensive line.

[Atocep]

Mixed reviews, overall. Not many guys I had in mind for them, to be honest. I had been taking a TE in most mocks, but never considered this guy whom they took ahead of some other logicals. Same for the RB - different guy than I had been trying to send them in the same general zone of the draft.

I don't mind the first 3 picks, but it feels like there really wasn't much creativity in leveraging the number of picks they had throughout the draft. They were positioned to maneuver as much as they wanted. Robinson, specifically, feels like a guy they could have traded down (and potentially back up) to get or taken someone else and moved up from 43 to get earlier in the 2nd.

Lets say you take Wiggins at 27 and move up a few picks in round 2 to get Robinson. It seems like something that would have been very doable and you land an elite corner prospect and the same edge guy you wanted and it costs you probably a mid round pick that you have in excess. No not a knock on Melton, but the dropoff between Wiggins and Melton seems fairly large.

[QuikSand]

From PFF:

ARIZONA CARDINALS: B+
1 (4): WR Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State
1 (27): EDGE Darius Robinson, Missouri
2 (43): CB Max Melton, Rutgers
3 (66): RB Trey Benson, Florida State
3 (71): OT Isaiah Adams, Illinois
3 (82): TE Tip Reiman, Illinois
3 (90): CB Elijah Jones, Boston College
4 (104): S Taylor Dadrion-Demerson , Texas Tech
5 (138): EDGE Xavier Thomas, Clemson
5 (162): OT Christian Jones, Texas
5 (191): WR Tejhaun Palmer, UAB
7 (226): CB Jaden Davis, Miami

Harrison — The Cardinals didn’t receive a trade offer that enticed them to move down for the second straight season. Instead, they get the No. 1 overall prospect on the consensus big board and one of the cleanest projections in the entire draft. Despite dealing with a step down in quarterback play last year, Harrison is one of two wide receivers who generated more than 1.0 PFF Wins Above Average (WAA) over the last two seasons.

Robinson — Robinson’s strength is his calling card. He played primarily on the interior before moving to the edge and posting career-highs with an 83.1 overall PFF grade and nine sacks. He was also the only SEC edge player to earn a 76.0-plus grade in run defense and rushing the passer. Arizona desperately needed to get more physical up front. The Cardinals accomplished that, but it’s possible that he would’ve been on the board early in the next round.

Melton — The run on cornerbacks continues. Melton, the 72nd-ranked player on the PFF big board, allowed just a 65.7 passer rating into his coverage in 2023 and totaled 15 pass breakups since 2021, the fourth-best mark in the Big Ten. The Cardinals could have targeted almost any position here and been filling a need. Melton projects as a slot cornerback but brings versatility, having played inside and outside in college.

Benson — The second running back off the board, Benson earned a 91.3 PFF grade over the last two seasons, eighth among Power Five running backs. Dynamic with the ball in his hands, he forced 124 missed tackles on 310 carries since 2022. He should immediately compete for touches behind James Conner in Arizona.

Adams — Adams played at Illinois but will likely kick inside to guard at the next level. He put up an 81.1 run-blocking grade over the past two seasons, sixth among draft-eligible tackles in this class. However, he gave up nine sacks from 518 pass-blocking snaps in 2023 alone and 13 sacks on 992 pass-blocking snaps over the past two seasons.

Reiman — A late riser through the pre-draft process, Reiman was a workout warrior and caught a ton of attention at the Shrine Bowl and NFL scouting combine. He wasn’t asked to be much more than a dump-off threat for Illinois and didn’t drop a pass on his 24 targets in 2023. He really shines as a run-blocker, where his play strength and competitiveness stand out.

Jones — The Cardinals continue to add to the secondary and pick an enforcer in Jones. The Boston College product is PFF’s 225th-ranked player but allowed just an 18.1 passer rating on throws into his coverage, the third-best mark among CBs, while his 89.8 coverage grade ranked eighth. Jones brings a physical playstyle as the Cardinals look to fill holes in their roster.

Dadrion-Demerson — Taylor-Demerson has been a ball hawk his entire college career, with his 10 interceptions since 2021 ranking third among Power Five safeties in that span. Opposing quarterbacks managed a passer rating of 58.4 when throwing into his coverage during his college career.

Thomas — Thomas gained a ton of experience in his six-year college career while racking up 153 quarterback pressures and 22 sacks, capped by a career-high 43 pressures in his final college season. He gives the Cardinals another solid piece in their defensive line overhaul.

Jones — Jones brings plenty of experience, having played 3,219 career offensive snaps for Texas over the past five seasons. He showed improvement throughout his college career, too. Jones’ 77.8 PFF grade in 2023 was the highest of his college career. Arizona brought in Jonah Williams this offseason as the projected starter opposite 2023 first-round pick Paris Johnson Jr., but Jones is a nice depth addition to that group.

Palmer — Palmer was productive in each of his final two seasons at UAB, averaging 2.00 and 2.15 yards per route run in 2022 and 2023, respectively. He dropped just 2.1% of the catchable passes thrown his way and averaged 8.8 yards after the catch in 2023.

Davis — Davis was targeted 49 times in coverage in 2023. He allowed 28 receptions and one touchdown, adding five forced incompletions and six defensive stops.

[Thomkal]

Athletic ranked their class 5th overall. but really hard to say for sure how good a draft it was for them until they get on the field and play. Nothing spectacular to me after the first round but hopefully some shine come camp. Their emphasis on the secondary seems to me the coaches thought that was their weakest area, but it could have been best player available at their pick too. I think we have to have a couple successes there for the class to really be good. i think their fourth round pick, S Dadrian-Demerson might be one those successes but we shall see.

[QuikSand]

That write-up on TE Reiman has moved me back toward liking the pick okay. If they land a legit blocking-first TE2 who can catch a few but mostly help move people, that seems like a great complement to an impact receiving TE, and among the more unheralded difference-makers to a legit NFL offense.

[CrimsonFox]

Harrison Jr holding out for more money and hasn't signed the NFLPA deal yet.
This means people can't buy his jersey or he won't appear in Madden yet. In a word...who cares...

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After meeting with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Titans?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Titans</a> yesterday, Zay Jones now has a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cardinals</a> visit lined up:<a href="https://t.co/QJtZLu0AJH">https://t.co/QJtZLu0AJH</a></p>&mdash; Pro Football Rumors (@pfrumors) <a href="https://twitter.com/pfrumors/status/1787880430378664308?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 7, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm not really a fan, but if we want this offense to work well this year, I reckon Zay Jones would be a useful piece, at the right price. Thoughts?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looking at our beloved WR depth chart, we have: MHJ, Michael Wilson, Greg Dortch, Zach Pascal and others...

He was banged up most of last year. He was decently effective 2022 with over 800 yards receiving and five touchdowns. Is he really filling a need here? Michael Wilson had a pretty decent rookie year. MHJ should be a stud, and Dortch is your small slot guy. I guess Jones is a decent option as insurance/back-up role for outside receiver in case Wilson or MHJ get hurt. He'd be an upgrade over Zach Pascal.

I wouldn't sign him for anything more than a 1-year deal. We've got the cap space.

When he got cut, I was thinking he wouldn't be a terrible Josh Reynolds replacement for the Lions, so I think he may still have some value.

(Note: I may have a bit of a Zay Jones bias because I picked him up off waivers and had him on my fantasy football team for that game against Dallas when he scored 3 TDs in 2022. Huge FF win for me.)

[QuikSand]

Zay coming. I’m ok with it.

[Thomkal]

If he can stay healthy he should be able to help the WR corps.

[Honolulu_Blue]

A one-year deal. Good with it!

[Thomkal]

So some off the field drama for our #1 pick:


Fanatics files suit against Cardinals WR Marvin Harrison Jr. - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40174859/fanatics-files-suit-cardinals-wr-marvin-harrison-jr)

[QuikSand]

ok, let's blow the dust off this thread, we're into preseason, where are we?

[QuikSand]

I believe this is the PFF grading, showing their assessments of each player on the AZ roster today with their 2023 PFF grades

https://file.io/48jc4ci0SCCf

[QuikSand]

PFF guided take-aways:

QB - we know where we are here, Murray is expensive but effective, Ridder is worth a stab as a #w but has not impressed

HB - running backs don't matter, Conner remains a very efficient player, backups are fine, buzz on rookie Benson has been mid

WR/TE - we're counting on MHJr to be an impact #1 right away, Michael Wilson, Zay Jones, and Greg Dortsch have completely different skill sets to complement him -- let's think of this sorta like we're aspirationally trying to build up the Lions pass catchers group. Not an awful plan. I feel like we're one quality guy short, but I don't see any easy path to fix that, lots of teams are.

[QuikSand]

OL - potential major weak spot, we really need P Johnson to develop into a high end #1 OT for this to come together at all, I felt like an early pick here made sense, they didn't, I get it... I guess the "plan" this year is Jonah Williams gives you passable play at RT, you cross your fingers along the interior, and install Paris at LT? If the team makes the jump I'd want to something like 7-10 and "frisky" then this feels like a spot for a veteran addition next year, right? Or you draft a RT with pick 12?

[QuikSand]

DL/Edge - Looks like the Zaven Collins experiment is working okay, he's solind against eth run and still has got potential as a rusher, Gardeck the Barbarian is a replacement-level guy best as a situation pas rusher, and I don't know what else is happening on the edge with Ojulari out (not that he was proven, but at least there was a storyline there)... rookie Robinson may play some inside some outside, so maybe he can add some pressure, but I don't think there's enough here overall to think a 4-man rush is getting to anybody... another hallmark of a team needing help, lack of legit NFL talent on the other side of the LOS.

LB - with two recent 1st round picks spent here, this ought to be a major strength. Ugh. I guess you hope that Mack Wilson stays healthy and can play at replacement level or better, and you get something similar from Barnes and White. have not heard any camp buzz about anyone emerging here.

DBs - I actually kinda like where we are here, Baker is fine (PFF grade isn't strong but he passes the eye test overall) and PFF grading likes Jalen Thompson at the other safety slot, with Chachere a decent reserve/rotation guy. CB Sean Murphy Bunting is not awful (bad grade last year, so... maybe?) and a rotation of guys at the other corner jobs, including 2nd round rookie Melton and 3rd rounder Jones. CB might be a weakness, but I doubt it will feel like the reason they are a losing team. Another area where next year we reassess, and contemplate a fill-in veteran to help bring the team over the hump.

[QuikSand]

Okay, so... overall, this feels like it's a standard rebuild underway. The coaching staff last year seemed to get more out of a deeply subpar roster than we'd have expected, so there are some reasons to feel okay.

They draft DL/DB/DB so the immediate emphasis is clear. Seems fine. They need to rebuild some infrastructure type things (one more heavy DL, a count-on OL, a reliable perimeter corner, maybe one more offensive receiving target) but most teams have a list of questions that sound similar (though the good teams are worried about their first tier of depth the way this team is about several starter slots).

Vegas pins them as a 7-10 team. The books fielding O/U at 7/5 have the OVER paying +170 or so. Those fielding them at 6.5 have the OVER paying a shade under even money. I think that sounds about right.

[QuikSand]

If the wave of roster cuts in the next week or so yields someone intriguing at DL, maybe you give that a real look? (Miami cut Teair Tart, that sounds like a red flag to me, but that's the sort of guy I'm thinking about here)

But I don't think you go out and sign a malcontent veteran like CB Xavien Howard on a one-year deal, no real upside for this team in doing that. Just throw your young guys out there and see what you have. This doesn't feel like a two-guys-away roster, more like ten-guys-away, which is okay.

[QuikSand]

AZ Republic article projecting the 53-man roster following their first preseason game:

archive.is (https://archive.is/Q4L60)

They have Tune beating out Ridder for QB2, and SA Chachere missing the cut amidst a youth movement...

[Thomkal]

If they can keep their starters healthy and on the field, the Cards can have a good season say 9-7 or more. But there are so many new faces and moving parts its hard to predict until we see how they play. Harrison needs to stay healhy and show he's a #1 receiver right from the start.



I didn't think Tune was even going to be on the roster after getting Ridder given how terrible he looked last year so I don't really want to see either one of them on the field unless its a mop-up situation. Murray may be on his way out the door if he struggles. They pretty much have no reliable TE if McBride stuggles/get injured


.

There are just too many question/young talent on the OLine to know for sure if the coaches have improved the holes here. I see they signed a center-Froholdt-late in training camp. If this line can't protect Murray it will be a long season indeed. DL is much the same, not many sacks in preseason but I do like Collins and Gardeck. They have already had a season-ending injury here they need to not have anymore. Linebackers seems to have a couple of sold starters, who knows if they get hurt.


I have been a fan of Murphy-Bunting but he needs to solidify that he's a strong starter. Budda Baker needs to keep earning that big contract and stay healhy. not a lot of depth here for injuries but probably some of the corners could play here if need be.

[Thomkal]

Well after that preseason giving up 38 to the Broncos, have to say things aren't looking good for my beloved Cardinals

[QuikSand]

heh, i play in a survivor pool, but each week you have to pick a guaranteed loser (and cannot use that team again)... I'm taking ARZ to lose in Buffalo

[Thomkal]

heh, i play in a survivor pool, but each week you have to pick a guaranteed loser (and cannot use that team again)... I'm taking ARZ to lose in Buffalo


Can't say I blame you for that Quik, but kinda glad cards don't have to play in a blizzard there

[GrantDawg]

AZ Republic article projecting the 53-man roster following their first preseason game:

archive.is (https://archive.is/Q4L60)

They have Tune beating out Ridder for QB2, and SA Chachere missing the cut amidst a youth movement...
Looks like Ridder is being cut today. I wonder if he ends up on a practice squad somewhere.

[Thomkal]

Looks like Ridder is being cut today. I wonder if he ends up on a practice squad somewhere.


have to think he will given the lack of QB talent

[QuikSand]

Cards cuts:

T Dennis Daley
LS Joe Shimko
WR Daniel Arias
DB Michael Ojemudia
WR Daylen Baldwin
CB Delonte Hood
LB Chris Garrett
S Verone McKinley III
OL Austen Pleasants
DB T.J. Carter
QB Desmond Ridder
DT Naquan Jones
TE Blake Whiteheart
OL Marquis Hayes
CB Bobby Price
OL Marquis Hayes
WR Andre Baccellia
DL Myles Murphy
TE Bernhard Seikovits

[Thomkal]

Arizona Cardinals make roster cuts, transactions to reach 2024 final NFL roster (https://www.azcardinals.com/news/cardinals-trim-roster-to-get-to-53-for-2024-regular-season)


Other than Ridder, not a lot of surprises thought RB Michael Carter would make the team

[QuikSand]

well this was unexpected-falcons trading desmond ridder to the Cards for WR Rondale Moore.

ouch

[QuikSand]

everyone is looking for the next Tank Dell, the smallish productive guy that seems so obvious to succeed as a superslot... maybe it's Malik Washington?

- YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHgc1W52RmA)

He's in my Cards mocks from here on out, independent of whether I target WR early. They need bodies there.

I’m all in on Malik Washington! All. In.

Malik Washington made the 53 with the Dolphins, FYI, and had an impressive pre-season. He may see some early season field time, as they are ravaged with injuries, and I'm not sure what they are doing at WR to be honest.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Malik Washington made the 53 with the Dolphins, FYI, and had an impressive pre-season. He may see some early season field time, as they are ravaged with injuries, and I'm not sure what they are doing at WR to be honest.

I was thinking about Malik just this morning and got sidetracked before I could find out if he made the roster. On the one hand, I felt bad that Dolphins drafted him and he'd be buried behind Waddle and Hill, but he is in a great offense.

The Lions ended up keeping UDFA Isiah Williams out of Illinois as their 4th WR. I feel like he's the bargain basement version of Malik.

[Thomkal]

Ridder is now on the Cards practice squad

[CrimsonFox]

What a game! Nice job guys! Keep up the good work!

[Thomkal]

I think we might need to help carolina next

[thesloppy]

Cards looked great last night. I'm excited to fly into Phoenix and catch the Lions/Cards game this weekend!

[Thomkal]

Cards looked great last night. I'm excited to fly into Phoenix and catch the Lions/Cards game this weekend!


Woot! Take some pics for us!

[CrimsonFox]

HOLY SHIT! THEY DID IT! FUCK THE 9ERS!!!!


I LOVE Tyler Murray.....and James Conner.....and McBride.....um....and i guess wilson.....that's it I think. Seriously guys, get some defense.

another DT and a D back.

Also an offensive back that's a speed demon
also a good wide receiver.
Not sure if Harrijunior is it

but seriously I was getting so mad watching that game. and suddenly Conner conner conner conner conner......the guy is a steam roller! NICKNAME HIM STEAMROLLER!

And they took out 49ers kicker yay

the announcers were going on about how few penalties there were...but that's really because the refs didn't call them. Like the first few drives I kept seeing 0ers jumping off sides. Nothing. Pass interference. Nothing.

They even missed that face mask.

I also dislike the color commentator :P

[CrimsonFox]

ooooooo I KNOW! Shell out the big bucks and get Jamar Chase!

[Thomkal]

HOLY SHIT! THEY DID IT! FUCK THE 9ERS!!!!


I LOVE Tyler Murray.....and James Conner.....and McBride.....um....and i guess wilson.....that's it I think. Seriously guys, get some defense.

another DT and a D back.

Also an offensive back that's a speed demon
also a good wide receiver.
Not sure if Harrijunior is it

but seriously I was getting so mad watching that game. and suddenly Conner conner conner conner conner......the guy is a steam roller! NICKNAME HIM STEAMROLLER!

And they took out 49ers kicker yay

the announcers were going on about how few penalties there were...but that's really because the refs didn't call them. Like the first few drives I kept seeing 0ers jumping off sides. Nothing. Pass interference. Nothing.

They even missed that face mask.

I also dislike the color commentator :P


Yeah like I said in the NFL thread given their history against SF recently and the blowout loss to Washington last week, I was expecting more of the same when they were down at the half. Not this defense to hold them scoreless in the 2nd half. Crazy.


Murray threw for less than 200 yards again and Harrison had just 2 catches. They are going to lose more games than win unless those numbers improve.

[CrimsonFox]

We also need a kiocker that doesn't kick line drives. :P

[CrimsonFox]

Yeah like I said in the NFL thread given their history against SF recently and the blowout loss to Washington last week, I was expecting more of the same when they were down at the half. Not this defense to hold them scoreless in the 2nd half. Crazy.


I didn't realize SF was scoreless in the second half! WTF! Purdy and the offense were on fire. Catch after catch after catch. Then no scoers. Crazy. I guess SF run game sucks. Although Mason did break out several times. I cannot explain this.


Murray threw for less than 200 yards again and Harrison had just 2 catches. They are going to lose more games than win unless those numbers improve.


Murray has so much talent gushing from his pores. SF kinda stuck to them like glue. Also there were dropped passes. That has to stop. But there was SOOOOO much contact the whole game between receivers yet no pass interference calls. Am I misunderstanding that rule? It's like other games I've seen they call it just if someone touches you.

[QuikSand]

Okay, seems like the right time to shift gears, and start talking about this season basically in past tense.

We got more from this team than we had a right to expect, that is very encouraging. I think that points to the coaching staff being "on the right track" generally. The roster remains a work in progress, which was unavoidable given the state of affairs under a prior regime. So... for this team to have a slot atop the division for a while, and to look competitive in nearly all its games all season - nice outcome, really independent of what happens from here this season.

If we were to extend this exercise, I think we'd likely have a serious conversation about Murray at QB. Still has some hero ball in him, but I don't think the ceiling is there, and I don't think we want him as QB1 here in 2028. Hard to forecast the market for him, but if there were one, even just to get modest return value but get out of his contract and free up the role, I think we would consider that seriously.

Past that, the team desperately needs a pass rush, not a schemed-up stand-in for one. It's nice that they were not awful (Falcons) there, but they need at least one more significant playmaker there - I think that's actually atop the list. OL remains an issue, obviously, though not a searing white hot one, so that's still in the mix too.

State of the franchise is no longer 29/32, maybe it's... 19/32?

[CrimsonFox]

Yeah this needs to be a 2 year project thread at least.

[flere-imsaho]

I haven't watched a ton of Arizona games, so assume a bunch of "ifs" in the following, but if Murray is at the point where he's not regularly actively losing you games, and can sometimes be elite, I think the most relevant question for the owner/GM is whether you think it'll be easier to get a better QB or an OC or play-calling HC who can get more out of Murray.

[QuikSand]

everyone is looking for the next Tank Dell, the smallish productive guy that seems so obvious to succeed as a superslot... maybe it's Malik Washington?

- YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHgc1W52RmA)

He's in my Cards mocks from here on out, independent of whether I target WR early. They need bodies there.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can Malik Washington Be Long-Term Playmaker For Dolphins? 🤔<br><br>Happy for <a href="https://twitter.com/malik_w2?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Malik_W2</a>, who I featured extensively throughout the pre-draft process. <br><br>Analyzing his career-best showing on Sunday:<a href="https://t.co/Itoyj84Cta">https://t.co/Itoyj84Cta</a><a href="https://twitter.com/TheDraftNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheDraftNetwork</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoFins?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoFins</a></p>&mdash; Justin M (@JustinM_NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/JustinM_NFL/status/1868740457863446713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Honolulu_Blue]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Can Malik Washington Be Long-Term Playmaker For Dolphins? 🤔<br><br>Happy for <a href="https://twitter.com/malik_w2?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Malik_W2</a>, who I featured extensively throughout the pre-draft process. <br><br>Analyzing his career-best showing on Sunday:<a href="https://t.co/Itoyj84Cta">https://t.co/Itoyj84Cta</a><a href="https://twitter.com/TheDraftNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheDraftNetwork</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoFins?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoFins</a></p>&mdash; Justin M (@JustinM_NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/JustinM_NFL/status/1868740457863446713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yes! Love Malik!

[Thomkal]

Cards sign DE Josh Sweat reuniting with his old position coach with Gannon hopefully they can get the same amount of production in Cardinal red

[CrimsonFox]

You got some defense, thom, happy?

[QuikSand]

Cards just slaying this draft, love these top two as needs/fits.

[Thomkal]

Happy based on the potential, concerned that our first rounder needs a mentor in Calais Campbell and our 2nd rounder might be an injury waiting to happen, but he is who I wanted in the second, so yeah Cards!

[Thomkal]

Cards apparently happy with their offense-all defense picks so far

[QuikSand]

Will be looking at the futures lines soon... this team feels like an interesting dark horse to win the NGC West this season. I would like one or two more veteran free agents... guessing the consensus is that Amari Cooper is washed, but stylistically a decent version of him would be so helpful. Maybe swing a deal for Jalen Ramsey, sounds like the Dolphins are prepared to eat a lot of the 25 salary.

[Thomkal]

Will be looking at the futures lines soon... this team feels like an interesting dark horse to win the NGC West this season. I would like one or two more veteran free agents... guessing the consensus is that Amari Cooper is washed, but stylistically a decent version of him would be so helpful. Maybe swing a deal for Jalen Ramsey, sounds like the Dolphins are prepared to eat a lot of the 25 salary.


Yeah I thought Ramsey would get traded during the draft, so that would be sweet if the Cards got him. I think they still need WR help, but there is usually some good ones who get released.