2024 NFL Offseason, Free Agency, and Draft Talk

[QuikSand]

New thread as the 2023 one is starting to get a bit diffuse...

[QuikSand]

Those of us in the simplified FOF world of bonus+salary miss how sticky these situations can get... this is maybe the worst case ever (unless Deshaun Watson's goes equally badly, I suppose):

The Broncos & Russell Wilson's Contract | Spotrac Research (https://www.spotrac.com/news/the-broncos-russell-wilsons-contract-2191/)

[Lathum]

Thats insane but the Broncos are better just tearing it all down. They play in a conference with Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen, Harbaugh taking over the Chargers, very good young Browns and Texans teams, a dynamic Miami offense, a Jets team a QB away from contending, hell even Indy looked good with Richardson. The AFC is so stacked right now better off tanking for picks and cap room.

[JPhillips]

I don't see how you can expect to compete in the AFC without a stud QB. There are just too many to think you'll somehow slip past all of them.

[QuikSand]

Thats insane but the Broncos are better just tearing it all down. They play in a conference with Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen, Harbaugh taking over the Chargers, very good young Browns and Texans teams, a dynamic Miami offense, a Jets team a QB away from contending, hell even Indy looked good with Richardson. The AFC is so stacked right now better off tanking for picks and cap room.

yes to this

[Schmidty]

That’s why it scares me to give a big contract to a guy like Goff after next season. I like him in this offense and behind this line, but he has to have those two things or he won’t be worth anywhere near the money they’re talking about giving him and there’s no Jordan Love waiting to replace him. Market value for QBs are getting more and more ridiculous.

[QuikSand]

Well, we can all agree and say they're ridiculous, but as long as the borderline cases (like Goff, Tagovailoa, Cousins) continue to get actual interest at that ridiculous level by either their current team or a new suitor... that seems to suggest it's not so ridiculous. Things are worth what someone will pay for them.

[JPhillips]

And I'm willing to pay more for above average in the NFC. Above average is enough to get to the Super Bowl in the NFC.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That’s why it scares me to give a big contract to a guy like Goff after next season. I like him in this offense and behind this line, but he has to have those two things or he won’t be worth anywhere near the money they’re talking about giving him and there’s no Jordan Love waiting to replace him. Market value for QBs are getting more and more ridiculous.

Jared Goff definitely has his limitations. He’s terrible under pressure, he needs a roof like Captain America needs a shield, and his complete lack of mobility makes it so he is zero threat as a runner/scrambler (Purdy’s scrambling in the NFC Championship game killed the Lions) and really can’t make a “second play” when things break down. That said, he’s played the best football of his career the last year and a half and has been the leader of a super successful offense. There’s no way the Lions will let him walk and I think that’s the right call, especially in the NFC. He just led the Lions to within a half of the Super Bowl and trying to find another QB at this point would be too huge a gamble even for Dan Campbell.

I was very much against Goff being the Lions long term answer for QB when they traded for him. I didn’t like him at all as a QB. Even acknowledging his limitations, he’s totally won me over as a player and I’m fine with the Lions committing to him given the current state of the team and everything they’ve accomplished over the last year and a half.

[flere-imsaho]

If you don't pay Goff, Tagovailoa, Cousins, etc... you'll end up with someone like O'Connell, Howell, Ridder, or Pickett, if you're lucky.

And while theoretically the former group can get you the results of a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, etc... if you also have a complimentary weapon or two and/or an offensive mastermind at HC or OC, that's not going to be true with the latter group.

So, super-simple, it's supply and demand, and less than half of the league has QBs that can get their teams to the playoffs and be a somewhat legitimate threat once there.

So, you've got to pay those guys or tear it down and try to draft one. But if you've built an otherwise strong team (DET, MIA, MIN are decent examples) that's a lot of sunk cost to punt on. I would imagine it's really hard to tell an owner or a fanbase "yeah, we might be in the top half of the league and with a lucky break or two we're in the Super Bowl, but the chances aren't high, so we're going to get rid of everyone and tank to take our chances on a franchise QB in the draft."

[flere-imsaho]

Here's how I'd rank QBs right now (Top 30 by QBR for 2023 regular season plus Watson):

Tier 1: Brady-esque ability to win regardless of how much his team handicaps him, excels at finding the best plays against the defense and winning consistently without needing to blow other teams away: Mahomes

Tier 2: Peyton Manning-esque ability to take over games and bully opposing teams into submission, while also, like Manning, curiously coming undone against specific defenses or running out of steam when the rest of his team can't hold up their end of the bargain: Allen, Jackson

Tier 3: Could be Tier 1 or 2 but two seasons with ill-timed injuries contribute to a small sample size: Burrow

Tier 4: Probably going to be Tier 1 or Tier 2 but we don't know yet because either a) they've had less than a season or b) they've been playing for the Chargers or c) whatever they hell we think has gone on with Jacksonville: Herbert, Love, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence

Tier 5: Really good with key offensive weapons: Hurts, Prescott

Tier 6: Really good with key offensive weapons and an offensive guru at HC or OC: Purdy, Stafford, Tagovailoa, Goff

Tier 7: Good with key offensive weapons and no longer actively detrimental to your team's chance to win: Cousins

Tier 8: Adequate. You're not going to make the playoffs due to them, but you're also not going to effectively tank with them: Minshew, G. Smith, Carr, Mayfield

Tier 9: Who the fuck knows: Watson, Murray

Tier 10: You're kidding yourself, start tanking: Dobbs, Wilson, Fields, Howell, O'Connell, Ridder, Pickett, Jones, Young, Wilson

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's how I'd rank QBs right now (Top 30 by QBR for 2023 regular season plus Watson):

Tier 1: Brady-esque ability to win regardless of how much his team handicaps him, excels at finding the best plays against the defense and winning consistently without needing to blow other teams away: Mahomes

Tier 2: Peyton Manning-esque ability to take over games and bully opposing teams into submission, while also, like Manning, curiously coming undone against specific defenses or running out of steam when the rest of his team can't hold up their end of the bargain: Allen, Jackson

Tier 3: Could be Tier 1 or 2 but two seasons with ill-timed injuries contribute to a small sample size: Burrow

Tier 4: Probably going to be Tier 1 or Tier 2 but we don't know yet because either a) they've had less than a season or b) they've been playing for the Chargers or c) whatever they hell we think has gone on with Jacksonville: Herbert, Love, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence

Tier 5: Really good with key offensive weapons: Hurts, Prescott

Tier 6: Really good with key offensive weapons and an offensive guru at HC or OC: Purdy, Stafford, Tagovailoa, Goff

Tier 7: Good with key offensive weapons and no longer actively detrimental to your team's chance to win: Cousins

Tier 8: Adequate. You're not going to make the playoffs due to them, but you're also not going to effectively tank with them: Minshew, G. Smith, Carr, Mayfield

Tier 9: Who the fuck knows: Watson, Murray

Tier 10: You're kidding yourself, start tanking: Dobbs, Wilson, Fields, Howell, O'Connell, Ridder, Pickett, Jones, Young, Wilson

Super solid!

[Danny]

Here's how I'd rank QBs right now (Top 30 by QBR for 2023 regular season plus Watson):

Tier 1: Brady-esque ability to win regardless of how much his team handicaps him, excels at finding the best plays against the defense and winning consistently without needing to blow other teams away: Mahomes

Tier 2: Peyton Manning-esque ability to take over games and bully opposing teams into submission, while also, like Manning, curiously coming undone against specific defenses or running out of steam when the rest of his team can't hold up their end of the bargain: Allen, Jackson

Tier 3: Could be Tier 1 or 2 but two seasons with ill-timed injuries contribute to a small sample size: Burrow

Tier 4: Probably going to be Tier 1 or Tier 2 but we don't know yet because either a) they've had less than a season or b) they've been playing for the Chargers or c) whatever they hell we think has gone on with Jacksonville: Herbert, Love, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence

Tier 5: Really good with key offensive weapons: Hurts, Prescott

Tier 6: Really good with key offensive weapons and an offensive guru at HC or OC: Purdy, Stafford, Tagovailoa, Goff

Tier 7: Good with key offensive weapons and no longer actively detrimental to your team's chance to win: Cousins

Tier 8: Adequate. You're not going to make the playoffs due to them, but you're also not going to effectively tank with them: Minshew, G. Smith, Carr, Mayfield

Tier 9: Who the fuck knows: Watson, Murray

Tier 10: You're kidding yourself, start tanking: Dobbs, Wilson, Fields, Howell, O'Connell, Ridder, Pickett, Jones, Young, Wilson


Yes solid list with one glaring name on there, Richardson. He cant be anywhere near tier 4 with all of 4 games and 3 touchdowns to his name after a mediocre college career and an already major injury.

[stevew]

I’d probably just take the strategy of play it out/Franchise/Franchise/(maybe) Transition tag with Goff. If he wants some sort of security it’s on him to work out a deal slightly more favorable than that.

[albionmoonlight]

That’s a very well thought out tier list.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: Carr is so frustrating to watch. You’ll watch the whole game, and he’ll play badly and lose. Then you look at his stats at the end, and he’ll have 300+ yards and 2 TDs and no picks.

But it will be the emptiest stat line possible. All garbage yards. All non-clutch.

[CrimsonFox]

Do you think that GMs are starting to figure out that young untested QBs are not worth giving superbig buvcks to yet?

[CrimsonFox]

Here's how I'd rank QBs right now (Top 30 by QBR for 2023 regular season plus Watson):

Tier 1: Brady-esque ability to win regardless of how much his team handicaps him, excels at finding the best plays against the defense and winning consistently without needing to blow other teams away: Mahomes

Tier 2: Peyton Manning-esque ability to take over games and bully opposing teams into submission, while also, like Manning, curiously coming undone against specific defenses or running out of steam when the rest of his team can't hold up their end of the bargain: Allen, Jackson

Tier 3: Could be Tier 1 or 2 but two seasons with ill-timed injuries contribute to a small sample size: Burrow

Tier 4: Probably going to be Tier 1 or Tier 2 but we don't know yet because either a) they've had less than a season or b) they've been playing for the Chargers or c) whatever they hell we think has gone on with Jacksonville: Herbert, Love, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence

Tier 5: Really good with key offensive weapons: Hurts, Prescott

Tier 6: Really good with key offensive weapons and an offensive guru at HC or OC: Purdy, Stafford, Tagovailoa, Goff

Tier 7: Good with key offensive weapons and no longer actively detrimental to your team's chance to win: Cousins

Tier 8: Adequate. You're not going to make the playoffs due to them, but you're also not going to effectively tank with them: Minshew, G. Smith, Carr, Mayfield

Tier 9: Who the fuck knows: Watson, Murray

Tier 10: You're kidding yourself, start tanking: Dobbs, Wilson, Fields, Howell, O'Connell, Ridder, Pickett, Jones, Young, Wilson

LOVE the detail of this list.

[bhlloy]

Sounds like Carr is this years recipient of the Phillip Rivers memorial trophy, which is shaped like a broken condom and has shitty trash talk inscribed all around the base.

[CrimsonFox]

wait wait there needs to be a category for both Flacco as well as a "QB that has potential but will inevitably be replaced by Flacco"

[CrimsonFox]

are any of the injured starting QBs actually going to get well enough to play a full season next year? Did any of them have injuries so major there are doubts?

[albionmoonlight]

Do you think that GMs are starting to figure out that young untested QBs are not worth giving superbig buvcks to yet?

I think that fear of losing something overmotivates them.

Daniel Jones is a good example. There was maybe a 5% chance that he'd become a franchise QB after that one good season with Daboll. But I can see the fear the Giants had of letting him walk and then he wins Super Bowls with some other team. That's a Bowie over Jordan level mistake.

So you sign him for way too much money.

The Giants should have let him hit free agency and made him a good but not great offer. And if some other team wanted to surpass it? Then he becomes their problem.

[bhlloy]

I think that fear of losing something overmotivates them.

Daniel Jones is a good example. There was maybe a 5% chance that he'd become a franchise QB after that one good season with Daboll. But I can see the fear the Giants had of letting him walk and then he wins Super Bowls with some other team. That's a Bowie over Jordan level mistake.

So you sign him for way too much money.

The Giants should have let him hit free agency and made him a good but not great offer. And if some other team wanted to surpass it? Then he becomes their problem.

I think this is very true, GMs seem to treat the QB position like they in a vacuum rather than truly supply and demand. Nobody else was going to pay Jones that and if they were going to, then there's one other team in the league you don't have to worry about finding that affordable QB on a rookie deal or elite QB that is a must for competing.

With that being said, there is also something to say for job security. You don't get sacked going 9-7 and a wildcard berth 2 out of 3 years. You get sacked when you let a QB go who leads another team to the playoffs while the one you picked busts, and the <1% chance that Jones turns into Drew Brees on another team doesn't just get you sacked, it makes you a punchline for the next 30 years.

[Bobble]

I dunno. I'm no Daniel Jones fan but he was 9-6-1 with a 92.5 passer rating before the signing. There's something to be said for consistency and development and knowing what you have to work with. What was the obvious QB replacement if they didn't bank on Jones? Was that the Baker, Mariota, Jimmy G, etc. class of free agent QBs?

At the time to me, it felt like a no-win situation. You get clowned for paying him or clowned for not having a plan at QB.

[JPhillips]

I think the most difficult decision as a GM is the guy that likely won't take you to a championship but the team will be immediately worse without them.

[Danny]

Sounds like Carr is this years recipient of the Phillip Rivers memorial trophy, which is shaped like a broken condom and has shitty trash talk inscribed all around the base.

Sort of but Rivers is way better than Carr.

I always wanted him to take that next step but he never did and was glad to see him cut.

He has a lot of 4th quarter comebacks but thats largely due to playing empty ball for 3 quarters and always being down. For the majority of the game he puts up some yards and maybe a couple field goals but doesnt put the ball in the endzone but then does somethings at the end of the game to maybe win.

[bhlloy]

I dunno. I'm no Daniel Jones fan but he was 9-6-1 with a 92.5 passer rating before the signing. There's something to be said for consistency and development and knowing what you have to work with. What was the obvious QB replacement if they didn't bank on Jones? Was that the Baker, Mariota, Jimmy G, etc. class of free agent QBs?

At the time to me, it felt like a no-win situation. You get clowned for paying him or clowned for not having a plan at QB.

That’s exactly the point though. Yes, consistency and development is important. That doesn’t have to come with $160m and $92m in guarantees just because of the timing and the fact you feel like you’ve got to show he’s your no doubt guy. You can find a generic Daniel Jones for half that.

Outside of the vacuum no other team would have given a player of that talent that contract. And if they would have the Giants should have been happy that a competitor was not really a threat.

[Bobble]

You can find a generic Daniel Jones for half that.


Can you though? Can you for sure get generic Daniel Jones this offseason when other teams are trying to do the same? Or, do you risk being the team that gets stuck with Trubisky, Dobbs, Foles, or someone like that?

I think that's the question. How much of a gamble do you take at QB when you have 9-win team that made the playoffs?

[dubb93]

Can you though? Can you for sure get generic Daniel Jones this offseason when other teams are trying to do the same?

I don't see why not. The guy threw 15 TDs in 16 games in his "breakout" season. That should have been a giant red flag pun intended. I know they liked his legs and all that, but having a guy playing QB that isn't productive passing the ball is a such a handicap that if I were the owner I be firing this GM and moving on the next one.

And before someone tosses out Lamar I'd like to point out that Lamar has been able to produce more points with his arm than Jones did in his "breakout" season basically every season of his career.

[Carman Bulldog]

If you think the discourse is bad now regarding QB contracts, wait until next season when Brock Purdy is eligible to sign an extension. If he wins you a Super Bowl, is he worth $50 million a year? What if he wins MVP?

[bhlloy]

Can you though? Can you for sure get generic Daniel Jones this offseason when other teams are trying to do the same? Or, do you risk being the team that gets stuck with Trubisky, Dobbs, Foles, or someone like that?

I think that's the question. How much of a gamble do you take at QB when you have 9-win team that made the playoffs?

Nick Foles has a higher QB rating over his career than Daniel Jones does, FWIW. So yeah, I’m pretty comfortable I can find that without guaranteeing $92m to at best a middling QB.

[Bobble]

Nick Foles has a higher QB rating over his career than Daniel Jones does, FWIW. So yeah, I’m pretty comfortable I can find that without guaranteeing $92m to at best a middling QB.

Over his career, sure. The version of Nick Foles you could have picked up in that offseason to replace Jones was ... not great.

Anywho, it certainly hasn't turned out to be a great decision to keep Jones but I just don't think it was a slam-dunk, no-doubt mistake at the time. YMMV, AFAIK, IMHO, etc.

[Brian Swartz]

I agree with Bobble. I'm also often wrong about all things sports-related.

[flere-imsaho]

I have to say that every time a conversation about QBs comes up, I find myself still baffled that no one made any sort of run at Lamar Jackson last year.

[GrantDawg]

I have to say that every time a conversation about QBs comes up, I find myself still baffled that no one made any sort of run at Lamar Jackson last year.
That was cost and circumstances. If he had an agent that teams could have worked with, and had some kind of actual framework for what he was asking for, then teams would have been interested. Instead, no one was willing to blindly negotiate a contract just for the Ravens to match it and keep him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

That was cost and circumstances. If he had an agent that teams could have worked with, and had some kind of actual framework for what he was asking for, then teams would have been interested. Instead, no one was willing to blindly negotiate a contract just for the Ravens to match it and keep him.

Exactly. I don't think it was realistic that anyone other than the Ravens was going to sign Lamar Jackson.

They have a similar RFA system in hockey, where when a player is a restricted agent, teams can offer that player a contract and the other team can either accept that contract and keep the player, or let the player go for draft pick compensation.

It's very, very rare that these players ever get contracts from another team and, if they do, they are often matched. So, teams rarely feel the need to "do the work" for a rival.

That being said, every once in a while it happens and it's pretty fun! It creates a lot of bad blood between the franchises and teams can get pretty creative with their offers. A few decades ago Red Wings forward Sergei Fedorov was a RFA and Carolina eventually offered him a deal. There was a $14 million signing bonus upfront, and about $12 million in bonuses that would be paid throughout the remaining years of the contract. However, there was the caveat that if Fedorov’s team reached the conference finals, he would be paid all $12 million upfront. The actual salary worked out to only $2 million per year. That would mean that there was the potential of having to pay Sergei Fedorov $28 million for one season. Carolina wasn't making the Conference Finals, but the Wings were coming off a Stanley Cup win.

The Wings matched it and Fedorov was paid $28 million for all of four months of hockey.

[molson]

Isn't a long shot at a franchise QB worth the work when there's no downside?

I guess unless you have an established QB that's going to be mad at you if you fail and have to stick with him.

But otherwise, I didn't understand the "didn't want to do the work" rhetoric back then. Did everyone have a hot date they had to get to on time?

[GrantDawg]

Isn't a long shot at a franchise QB worth the work when there's no downside?

I guess unless you have an established QB that's going to be mad at you if you fail and have to stick with him.

But otherwise, I didn't understand the "didn't want to do the work" rhetoric back then. Did everyone have a hot date they had to get to on time?
What? Not a "'long shot". A "was never going to happen" shot. Do you waist time and resources on things that are never going to happen?

[molson]

What? Not a "'long shot". A "was never going to happen" shot. Do you waist time and resources on things that are never going to happen?

It's just a prediction and speculation that it was never going to happen. I don't know how we established that was just a fact. Obviously there was some number the Ravens didn't want to pay, the negotiations went on for a while and seemed to be contentious. He didn't even get a fully guaranteed contract.

But even if it's true that the Ravens would have automatically matched any offer no matter what, a conference rival should have made them spend more money. Make them pay Watson money, or even Burroughs/Herbert/Mahomes money. But because it just would have been too much work, a Super Bowl contender gets a bargain at QB. Seems like an opportunity, rather than annoying busy work that's not worth doing, to be able to draft a rival team's most important player contract.

A lot of this seems made up after the fact. I remember a lot of stuff about Lamar not being worth it, being injured, missing playoff games he could have played in, etc. A lot of questions about whether he was worth all the guaranteed money. And he didn't end up getting it. But now his value is infinite and that was obvious all along.

[GrantDawg]

It's just a prediction and speculation that it was never going to happen. I don't know how we established that was just a fact. Obviously there was some number the Ravens didn't want to pay, the negotiations went on for a while and seemed to be contentious. He didn't even get a fully guaranteed contract.

But even if it's true that the Ravens would have automatically matched any offer no matter what, a conference rival should have made them spend more money. Make them pay Watson money, or even Burroughs/Herbert/Mahomes money. But because it just would have been too much work, a Super Bowl contender gets a bargain at QB. Seems like an opportunity, rather than annoying busy work that's not worth doing, to be able to draft a rival team's most important player contract.

A lot of this seems made up after the fact. I remember a lot of stuff about Lamar not being worth it, being injured, missing playoff games he could have played in, etc. A lot of questions about whether he was worth all the guaranteed money. And he didn't end up getting it. But now his value is infinite and that was obvious all along.
That only makes sense if it is a contract that you can still be competitive with if he takes the offer. There are teams that could have given him and extreme offer, then they would have had a franchise quarterback while needing to cut every player with a decent contract, no money for free agency, and losing two first round picks. There are costs that is too extreme.

[Danny]

I think you are underestimating how much work and energy would have been involved with him having no agent. All the while you have to clear tons of cap room to even be able to make the offer and miss out on any other free agents.

And GM's in the know probably knew Baltimore was going to match regardless.

[GrantDawg]

I think you are underestimating how much work and energy would have been involved with him having no agent. All the while you have to clear tons of cap room to even be able to make the offer and miss out on any other free agents.

And GM's in the know probably knew Baltimore was going to match regardless.
Exactly. If he had an agent, I think I can safely say he would have likely gotten multiple offers and made more money. Teams weren't willing to pause team building for an extended amount of time while he drug them along like he did Baltimore.

[molson]

The Ravens would have had to match within 5 days, and they would have gotten the offering teams next 2 first round picks. Which both made him less desirable to other teams, and created a lot of speculation back then that Ravens would be OK to take the picks and move on at a certain number.

Edit: Best I can tell from reading the stuff back then, it was a calculated risk. The Ravens could narrow down which teams had the space to begin with, and could project what an offer might be. They thought the risk was low that somebody would go over what they were willing to pay, there just wasn't many teams in play. The consensus of the time was that around $200 million guaranteed would have gotten it done, and nobody was willing to offer that AND give up 2 first round picks. But I wonder if any teams who could have, would take that now. His perceived value is much higher now than it was then. There's not a lot of professional athletes I can think of that played better immediately AFTER getting a massive amount of money.

[Ksyrup]

I read three things today that I'm choosing to believe are true, even of none of them are:

1. Russell Wilson put his Denver mansion up for sale
2. It has more bathrooms than he had wins in Denver
3. His house in Seattle is still on the market

[CrimsonFox]

What happened to him?

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions have released veteran safety Tracy Walker. He was one of the few holdovers from the Quinntricia era. He was set to be a leader and key piece for the defense two years ago, tore his Achilles and then got surpassed on the depth chart.

[albionmoonlight]

What happened to him?

I don’t know. My theory is that his game, for whatever reason, was more reliant on his athleticism than most quarterbacks. And once he inevitably lost some of that, everything came crashing down.

[RainMaker]

Does Wilson even play in the league next season? Just don't see a lot of great starting options available and I can't imagine him or a team want him as a backup. Maybe he'll wait till preseason to see if anyone gets hurt.

[Atocep]

Does Wilson even play in the league next season? Just don't see a lot of great starting options available and I can't imagine him or a team want him as a backup. Maybe he'll wait till preseason to see if anyone gets hurt.

Rumor is the steelers are interested if he's released.

[flere-imsaho]

Saw these elsewhere on the internet. Don't know if they're all true, but it would be a hoot if they were.

Eli Manning and Peyton Manning have the exact same career passer rating in the playoffs(87.4)

Matt Ryan won 120 games with the falcons, the player that is second in wins with the falcons started 121 games.

In flacco's first 5 playoff games, he had a 47.5 completion percentage, threw 1 TD 6 INT averaged 132 yards per game, the ravens went 3-2 in those games.

In 2018, the Browns started the season 0-0-1, that was their best start in 14 years.

The Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons, but they won the NFC South 3 years in a row.

The oilers/titans franchise has the same amount of AFC East titles as the jets(4), they haven't been in the afc East since 1969.

In Brady's first 7 super bowls, he didn't score any points in the first quarter.

Jerry Rice had 2169 receiving yards after turning 40, everyone else combined has 4 yards(6 from Brady).

In the 2006 game against the Cardinals, Rex Grossman was 14-37 144 yards 0 TD 4 INT 2 lost fumbles, the Bears won. Hester also had more punt return yards than Grossman had passing yards.

[CrimsonFox]

I don’t know. My theory is that his game, for whatever reason, was more reliant on his athleticism than most quarterbacks. And once he inevitably lost some of that, everything came crashing down.

Or maybe the secret to his power was his huddle cuddles with Beastmode

[cuervo72]

I read three things today that I'm choosing to believe are true, even of none of them are:

1. Russell Wilson put his Denver mansion up for sale
2. It has more bathrooms than he had wins in Denver
3. His house in Seattle is still on the market

I always wonder who IS the market for these (like a few months ago when a local news channel featured Bradley Beal's former house).

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Falcons love Kyle Pitts run-blocking ability �� <a href="https://t.co/urXbMh0M2I">pic.twitter.com/urXbMh0M2I</a></p>&mdash; PFF Fantasy &amp; Betting (@PFF_Fantasy) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Fantasy/status/1760352431924552114?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 21, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

l o effin l

[GrantDawg]

The guy doesn't block. Maybe they are trying to convince him he needs to block, but he has shown zero interest in anything other than being a passing target. The thing is, if he doesn't learn to try to block then he is going to be a huge liability on this offense. Basically every time he comes on the field, they might as well light up a sign saying "pass play!" They can't have him line up at TE and call a run play if he is just going to let his defender run right by him.

[GrantDawg]

dola: Tony Gonzalez was not a blocking TE. He still wasn't a liability on run plays because at least engaged the defender. Smith had Pitts lining up outside on most run plays because he wouldn't even do that. Pitt's refusal to block a CB on the outside caused a pick six on a simple screen.

[stevew]

Punt god got a job with the chiefs.

[CrimsonFox]

Bears checked two boxes by hiring Jennifer King as running back coach asst. GOnna get more draft picks.

[CrimsonFox]

So like are there rules for free agency acquisitions? Do teams just do a mad dash to sign players and whoever FA signs with gets him?

[CrimsonFox]

Have there been talks about females wanting to join the NFL ever?

Or a female league starting?

I'd be surprised if neither have come up

[thesloppy]

You mean the Lingerie Football League?

[dubb93]

Have there been talks about females wanting to join the NFL ever?

I don’t think anything specifically excludes women from football does it? Women play in high school and have in college.

[CrimsonFox]

I don’t think anything specifically excludes women from football does it? Women play in high school and have in college.

Didn't know this. They getting killed?

[dubb93]

Didn't know this. They getting killed?

Haley Van Voorhis makes history as first female non-kicker to play in NCAA football game | CNN (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/25/sport/haley-van-voorhis-history-first-female-non-kicker-ncaa-spt-intl/index.html)

And as far as high school, I’d suspect if your county doesn’t have a female player a surrounding county does. I’d suspect the obvious reasons would be why you don’t see more past division 3, but I’d imagine at some point we will see a d1 player.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I’d suspect the obvious reasons would be why you don’t see more past division 3, but I’d imagine at some point we will see a d1 player.

Not sure too many of us would live to see that, aside from a gimmick move for publicity.

The reason is simple: hard to legitimately play D1 college football without having played at a fairly high level in high school first and that really hasn't started happening yet either.

[CrimsonFox]

Women baseball and basketball players should be a given at this point. And I mean women in nba and MLB

[JonInMiddleGA]

Women baseball and basketball players should be a given at this point. And I mean women in nba and MLB

Again, hard to play at the highest pro level when nobody is playing at the highest college or HS level.

It's a little less absurd than the NFL notion, but not by all that much.

[CrimsonFox]

Again, hard to play at the highest pro level when nobody is playing at the highest college or HS level.

It's a little less absurd than the NFL notion, but not by all that much.

Doesn't mean they will be great, just saying they will demand to get in and succeed.
Really there could be baseball players that can compete. So why do women pitch underhand.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Doesn't mean they will be great, just saying they will demand to get in and succeed.

Successfully demand to get in? As fucked as our society is, you could eventually be correct.

Be able to compete at a major league level? It'd be a damned rare occurrence, especially since we have yet to see that done successfully at the lower levels.

[CrimsonFox]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Falcons love Kyle Pitts run-blocking ability �� <a href="https://t.co/urXbMh0M2I">pic.twitter.com/urXbMh0M2I</a></p>&mdash; PFF Fantasy &amp; Betting (@PFF_Fantasy) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Fantasy/status/1760352431924552114?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 21, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

l o effin l

Fields commented that he loves Pitts. That he is 'my boy' and looks happy about the rumors he'll be traded there as he lived there. His biggest problem he says is all the people that will be calling him for free tix.

[CrimsonFox]

Successfully demand to get in? As fucked as our society is, you could eventually be correct.

Be able to compete at a major league level? It'd be a damned rare occurrence, especially since we have yet to see that done successfully at the lower levels.

This has been going on for sometime. Women have frequently been demanding to be in organizations and places they are currently not, sometimes good sometimes bad. Voting, the military, sports field reporting, etc, etc. Only a matter of time. May as well lump in trans athletes demanding to be sports divisions too.

I am certain there have been recent women that wanted to play baseball/basketball, etc at a pro level. That one woman that is breaking basketball records would no doubt be able to compete in the NBA. As for baseball...it's just scratching yourself and spitting and then hit a ball and run around some bases. What's to know...

[stevew]

Caitlin Clark would likely get destroyed in the NBA. Her team would be playing 4 on 5 on defense. Like it’s so much easier for her to get buckets when you’re shooting over women with short arms, bad verticals and slow-ish foot speed. Clark is pretty awesome, and one of the greatest female ballers ever, though. She would probably be the worst defensive player in the league and the offense would be questionable.

They’d run her out there if they thought she could play.

[CrimsonFox]

I mean there are tons of guys that can shoot and can't do much else in the NBA, how would she be any different.
And some of them can't even shoot.

[GrantDawg]

Fields commented that he loves Pitts. That he is 'my boy' and looks happy about the rumors he'll be traded there as he lived there. His biggest problem he says is all the people that will be calling him for free tix.
But then rumors say the Falcons have no interest in him, and are more concentrated in being aggressive in the draft to get a QB. I'm fear we are entering the JJ McCarty era for the Falcons.

[cuervo72]

This has been going on for sometime. Women have frequently been demanding to be in organizations and places they are currently not, sometimes good sometimes bad. Voting, the military, sports field reporting, etc, etc. Only a matter of time. May as well lump in trans athletes demanding to be sports divisions too.

One, curious which of those are among the "bad." Second, at a high level (power 5/pro) a team is going to need a damned good reason to field a woman - an actual competitive angle* - or be uncompetitive enough that they can afford a gimmick inclusion. D3 where kids are going to be slower/smaller? Sure.


* I think so far what kickers we've seen have been this, though I don't know that they HAVE to be; Purdue kicking has been shitty enough that I'm sure some women could have done better. But they were probably playing soccer in the ACC or something.

[Sweed]

I mean there are tons of guys that can shoot and can't do much else in the NBA, how would she be any different.
And some of them can't even shoot.

How many of those guys can't dunk? Who in the NBA can't dunk? I know she doesn't have to, but it speaks to physical ability. When those guys get a layup their hand is above or near the rim. Caitlyn's? At least a foot below, if that? Unless she's all by herself it's getting blocked.

They're strong enough to establish some kind of position to get off their shot.
They can jump high enough to get off their shot.
They can beat people down the floor to get off their shot.
There's more, but.... you get the idea.

Caitlin is great but, almost any move she makes an NBA player is going to recover (if he loses position at all) to catch her, block the shot, or make it so she can't get the shot off.

If she goes to her "shoot from the logo game", that is NBA+ caliber, it still won't work. They can guard her tight and not let her shoot. If from the logo her quickness let's her get by them they'll run her down and block it from behind. The worst perimeter player in the NBA is quicker than her.

She can certainly shoot with the best of them, but she can't compete physically with any of them. Offensively, from time to time, she may get an open spot to shoot from. Defensively she wouldn't stand a chance.

Serena Williams is a very strong women. When asked about playing men she said something along the lines of she only wants to play women, that men's tennis and women's tennis are almost two separate sports. Physically Caitlin is not Serena.

[Atocep]

I mean there are tons of guys that can shoot and can't do much else in the NBA, how would she be any different.
And some of them can't even shoot.

I don't think people honestly realize how insanely good NBA players are. Brian Scalabrine is a fantastic example of this. He was widely mocked as being the worst player in the NBA. He average 3 points and 2 rebounds per game while shooting 39% from the floor.

He's also famously told people that think they're better than him that he's closer to Lebron than they are to him as he routinely torches these guys 11-0 in 1 on 1s.

The vast majority of these guys that can shoot and can't do much else would be the best athlete on a WNBA floor by a wide, wide margin. That's no disrespect to the women's game, it's improved dramatically over the past decade, but the talent in the NBA has as well and that gap there really hasn't closed all that much. I don't think the best player in the WNBA is playing many minutes on a major college team, let along getting close to a NBA bench.

It's difficult to put into perspective how good even the worst NBA players are without seeing the gap up close.

[stevew]

I mean there are tons of guys that can shoot and can't do much else in the NBA, how would she be any different.
And some of them can't even shoot.

I had some longer post but she’s most body comp like Trae Young. Trae young who is the worst defender in the league. She’s unplayable. Like I doubt she gets any shot off that’s other than wide open. NBA guys are absolute freaks with long arms and insane hops. They’d ISO her on D and she would give up 50 a night and foul out in. She’s got game but c’mon.

[CrimsonFox]

heh so you guys are saying that the NBA is made completely of genetically mutated huge monsters bred to play monster basketball to the point where normal people can't compete just based on skill? Funny that. Sorry this has hijacked the thread.

[stevew]

Yes

[Brian Swartz]

Not only the NBA, it's largely true of professional sports in general. The best at pretty much anything are many orders of magnitude better than even the 'good' in the general population.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not only the NBA, it's largely true of professional sports in general. The best at pretty much anything are many orders of magnitude better than even the 'good' in the general population.

This.

[Lathum]

Not only the NBA, it's largely true of professional sports in general. The best at pretty much anything are many orders of magnitude better than even the 'good' in the general population.

Reminds me of the time I had an argument with a guy who said if he had 10 tries to get a basket on Jordan in his prime he would get one. I was like, dude, you wouldn't even get a shot off.

Always cracks me up when people try and say Alabama could beat the bears or UConn could beat the Pistons. Shows a complete lack of understanding just how elite these guys are.

When I was in HS my town played against a running back named Keith Elias. He went to Princeton on scholarship and had a cup of coffee with the Colts. He ran for 5 TDs and well over 200 yards. The guy was so much better than anyone else out there. It wasn't even close.

[Lathum]

I don't think people honestly realize how insanely good NBA players are. Brian Scalabrine is a fantastic example of this. He was widely mocked as being the worst player in the NBA. He average 3 points and 2 rebounds per game while shooting 39% from the floor.

He's also famously told people that think they're better than him that he's closer to Lebron than they are to him as he routinely torches these guys 11-0 in 1 on 1s.

The vast majority of these guys that can shoot and can't do much else would be the best athlete on a WNBA floor by a wide, wide margin. That's no disrespect to the women's game, it's improved dramatically over the past decade, but the talent in the NBA has as well and that gap there really hasn't closed all that much. I don't think the best player in the WNBA is playing many minutes on a major college team, let along getting close to a NBA bench.

It's difficult to put into perspective how good even the worst NBA players are without seeing the gap up close.

Brian Scalabrine, an NBA Folk Legend, Blasts Amateurs Who Try to Challenge Him 1-on-1: 'I May Suck for an NBA Player, but I Don't Suck Compared to You' (https://www.sportscasting.com/nba-folk-hero-brian-scalabrine-blasts-amateurs-who-challenge-him-1-on-1-may-suck-for-nba-player-but-dont-suck-compared-you/)

[CrimsonFox]

Not only the NBA, it's largely true of professional sports in general. The best at pretty much anything are many orders of magnitude better than even the 'good' in the general population.

even Fat John 'One-Ball' Kruk?

[Carman Bulldog]

So the Canadian women's national hockey team would regularly play against Midget AAA boys (mostly in the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia) in their Olympic prep years and went 58-46-5 over the four Olympic years between 2006 and 2018. In 2022, they stepped up and played Junior A and went 0-5 getting outscored 30-2.

The national team is made up of the twenty or so best female hockey players of any age in Canada. Many of these women start playing at the age of 4 or 5, play several years on boys teams and then move on to girls and women's teams. Midget AAA boys are the best 15,16 and 17 year-olds playing U17; the very best 16 and 17 year-olds though are already playing Junior, which is 16-20. Junior A is a level below Major Junior. It is very rare for anyone playing Junior A to make it to the NHL, the exception usually being those that play Junior A at 16 or 17 because they want to go the college route. The vast majority of players that go on to play in the NHL play at the Major Junior level and not Junior A.

So I think the best way to equate this would be something like the 2020 US women's Olympic basketball team being very competitive with 11th grade AAU team's in Florida and then stepping up and getting crushed at the DII college level. That's basically the level of where elite women athletes are at in comparison to men.

[Sweed]

even Fat John 'One-Ball' Kruk?

Ask the guys that were in the minors with Kruk why he advanced to a nice MLB career while their healthy hard bodies never made it?

Some other fat players that come to mind..
Babe Ruth, CC Sabathia, Tony Gwynn, ;)

Did you ever watch "Pros vs. Joes" where some pretty good amateurs challenged pro athletes? Most, or maybe all(?), of the pros were retired old second tier players, ie not former all stars. Some of the challengers were very good "every day" athletes that probably dominated whatever local ball they played. Some of the old pros toyed with them while beating them soundly. Others destroyed them from the get go with no mercy.

I googled but can't find it, but I remember reading a guys account of going to
a fantasy camp where Vida Blue was on the former MLBers team. First guy up laced a double to the gap and was celebrating loudly while standing on second base. I don't recall how long Blue pitched but he struck out every batter after that hit. IIRC He was pushing 60 years of age.

These guys, even the ones that are bottom of the league, get to where they are because they are different. Sure some born with the ability don't work to take advantage of it, but those that do? We mortals can't touch 'em.

[Atocep]

Reminds me of the time I had an argument with a guy who said if he had 10 tries to get a basket on Jordan in his prime he would get one. I was like, dude, you wouldn't even get a shot off.

Always cracks me up when people try and say Alabama could beat the bears or UConn could beat the Pistons. Shows a complete lack of understanding just how elite these guys are.

When I was in HS my town played against a running back named Keith Elias. He went to Princeton on scholarship and had a cup of coffee with the Colts. He ran for 5 TDs and well over 200 yards. The guy was so much better than anyone else out there. It wasn't even close.


My high school basketball coach went to a Bobby Knight coaching clinic and Coach Knight ran Damon Bailey through some shooting drills for about 30 minutes from spots all over the floor. My coach said over those 30 minutes he couldn't even guess how many shots he put up, but not only did not miss a single shot but he doesn't think one of them even touched the rim.

[stevew]

YouTuber Deestroying is a kicker for one of the UFL teams. He makes some entertaining stuff.

[thesloppy]

YouTuber Deestroying is a kicker for one of the UFL teams. He makes some entertaining stuff.

I enjoy the 1-on-1s

[CrimsonFox]

Russell Wilson delusionally said he wants to win 2 Super Bowls over next 5 years (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2024/02/russell-wilson-super-bowls-win-5-years-delusional-video?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1uUzIIGtqlQL3--qeXpoJRH8KGqp05OR9dIRfEnrKM7Q4NjmSNHJLot0k)

[Sweed]

Russell Wilson delusionally said he wants to win 2 Super Bowls over next 5 years (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2024/02/russell-wilson-super-bowls-win-5-years-delusional-video?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1uUzIIGtqlQL3--qeXpoJRH8KGqp05OR9dIRfEnrKM7Q4NjmSNHJLot0k)

He might be able to do it as the Chiefs backup. Unless of course Mahomes gets hurt, then he's back to no chance. :D

[molson]

Russell Wilson delusionally said he wants to win 2 Super Bowls over next 5 years (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2024/02/russell-wilson-super-bowls-win-5-years-delusional-video?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1uUzIIGtqlQL3--qeXpoJRH8KGqp05OR9dIRfEnrKM7Q4NjmSNHJLot0k)

He's won 1 playoff game in 7 years.

Is there a single fanbase that would be excited about him being their starting QB in 2024? I guess if he's really released and available for the league minimum or something.

[CrimsonFox]

Now iget how tired he is about rumors of trading him. Every day there's a new click bait article that actually turns out to be just someone's opinion of his situation. Just stop

[stevew]

He's won 1 playoff game in 7 years.

Is there a single fanbase that would be excited about him being their starting QB in 2024? I guess if he's really released and available for the league minimum or something.

I mean if it’s shitty Picketts or Russell I guess I’m team Steelers country let’s roll.

[CrimsonFox]

More Wilson talk
Chad Johnson gets high and hears a bird telling him Russell Wilson rumours (https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/02/22/chad-johnson-russell-wilson-pittsburgh-steelers-denver-broncos?fbclid=IwAR2SWFTYwQkVHr9No3jzk2o1MSSWVYjAazQ7H8wIDOaHg58es8ma8MAmb_k)

[Sweed]

I hate to be the one to break up the Wilson talk but...

As a Rams fan I can't remember the last year I looked forward to watching the draft. 10 picks that include, wait for it, a first and second round pick. :eek: :)

[albionmoonlight]

Rams successfully YOLOd to get a Super Bowl.

Then they almost immediately pivoted into being a young up and coming team.

Great trick if you can pull it off.

[Ksyrup]

As a Broncos fan, I'm ignoring all of the new articles. We'll see what happens in due time. What I'm glad to not have to see anymore are the "Russ is playing great!" articles. Yes, his numbers looked good. Yes, Payton probably got as much out of him as he could. No, he did not run a good offense and was extremely limited. That should have been obvious if you watched the games.

During the mid-season win streak, the D was averaging like 4 TOs a game. That's the main reason they pulled off a long win streak. Wilson made a few end of game plays, but he also squandered many TOs with 3-and-outs or failing to get into scoring position on change of possessions that should have resulted in more scoring opportunities. Sometimes, the offense piddled around until the last 2 minutes of both halves, when it became the Samaje Perine show and Wilson dumped it off to him multiple times to get into scoring position. But that wasn't a sustainable offense for the other 55 minutes.

In short, get him the F out of Denver. I'd rather win 3 games next year hamstrung by the salary cap, then win 5 or 6 with him and delaying the inevitable.

[albionmoonlight]

Some offseason trivia.

4 QBs have beaten every NFL team. Do you know who they are?

Brady, Manning, Brees, Favre

No QB has ever lost to every NFL team, but one QB has the chance to do it in 2024. Do you know who it is?

Derek Carr

[albionmoonlight]

Bucs cutting Shaq Barrett.

Seems like the exact sort of guy that one of those smart somehow-always-in-the-playoffs teams will sign to a team-friendly deal four weeks into free agency in such a low-profile way that you won't even register it until Week 6 when you're flipping through Sunday Ticket and see him and say "Huh? They got Shaq Barrett? How'd they do that?"

[Brian Swartz]

even Fat John 'One-Ball' Kruk?

Kruk was far better than the 'barely making the pros' kind of player. Even guys like Steve Jeltz, who has one of my favorite claims to fame in modern sports, up there with Bono's TD run and some others:

Dorktown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfFn4NqQr_U)

A bit down in the comments there is a relevant quote. Jeltz was not good by comparison to other MLB players, but he was an MLB player for several years. That alone means this is true:

Steve Jeltz is miles closer to being as good as Barry Bonds than any of us are to being as good as Jeltz.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He's won 1 playoff game in 7 years.

Is there a single fanbase that would be excited about him being their starting QB in 2024? I guess if he's really released and available for the league minimum or something.

I can't think of anyone who'd actually believe this is a good sign for their club.

[Atocep]

Don Kleiman reporting Atlanta is trying to get the Bears to pull the trigger on a Fields trade sooner rather than later. Separately, I've read the offer is a 2nd and a 5th.

[QuikSand]

Don Kleiman reporting Atlanta is trying to get the Bears to pull the trigger on a Fields trade sooner rather than later. Separately, I've read the offer is a 2nd and a 5th.

2+5 sounds about right... and I'd bet the over (i.e. someone gets wind that's the going rate and beats it)

[GrantDawg]

Who though, QS? The only teams to even be rumored to be interested is Atlanta, Pittsburg, and Las Vegas. And the Pittsburg and Raider's interest is pretty questionable.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Swaggs]

I don't get the feeling that Pittsburgh is actually interested from what I have read. I think Fields has mentioned it and the QB situation in Pittsburgh is obviously in flux, but most of what I have heard is that the new GM wants to build through the draft and that they felt really good about the foundation they put together last year, in their first draft.

[GrantDawg]

Meanwhile, a local sports director from the largest TV station in Atlanta says that he has heard that Blank has directed the front office to get Kurt Cousins "at any cost." I don't know if I believe that, or if it was that Smith just told them that money is not a limit on any quarterback they want and it has been twisted.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

Don Kleiman reporting Atlanta is trying to get the Bears to pull the trigger on a Fields trade sooner rather than later. Separately, I've read the offer is a 2nd and a 5th.

That's more than I was expecting. I thought it would be a 3rd that can become a 2nd if he plays a certain amount of snaps.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meanwhile, a local sports director from the largest TV station in Atlanta says that he has heard that Blank has directed the front office to get Kurt Cousins "at any cost." I don't know if I believe that, or if it was that Smith just told them that money is not a limit on any quarterback they want and it has been twisted.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Better than the Fields idea at least

[GrantDawg]

After Dallas Turner's combine numbers, Falcons fan are now on board with signing Cousins if it means we draft Turner. We have needed an elite edge for so long, and he looks every bit of it.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[albionmoonlight]

With a real coach and a real QB, the Falcons could become a pretty decent team in a weak conference and an even weaker division.

[CrimsonFox]

i don't think i believe ANY of the pundits or articles or bullshit rags that talk about Qbs and trades anymore. I believe that surprises will happen out of nowhere.

[QuikSand]

Who though, QS? The only teams to even be rumored to be interested is Atlanta, Pittsburg, and Las Vegas. And the Pittsburg and Raider's interest is pretty questionable.

Just listened to the open of the Mays podcast with Diana Russini, and... this is sounding like the near consensus. I guess I just fell for the sparkle of Fields, rather than thinking about contract specifics and "the answer" status.

Maybe they would be wise to drag this out and have him be the best answer for whomever loses out to Atlanta in getting Cousins?

[albionmoonlight]

The problem with Fields, I think, is that we've seen enough of him that it becomes harder for teams to see the potential over the reality.

I think that neither Fields nor Trey Lance will ever be a viable starting NFL QB (outside of a possible random lighting-in-a-bottle season). But if I had a third-round pick and I had to trade for one of them, I'd go with Lance just because Fields has so much more tape out there showing what he can't do. I can still fool myself with Lance.

[Ksyrup]

I really don't follow any of this stuff very closely, but I see that everyone is now down on Drake Maye. He kinda stunk a lot of last year, so I get it. But I think the same was said about Will Levis last year after his disappointing senior season, and he still went pretty high. So I'm guessing all of this talk about Maye maybe not even being a 1st rounder will eventually come back around to him being a mid-late 1st round pick, at worst. It only takes one...

[GrantDawg]

I really don't follow any of this stuff very closely, but I see that everyone is now down on Drake Maye. He kinda stunk a lot of last year, so I get it. But I think the same was said about Will Levis last year after his disappointing senior season, and he still went pretty high. So I'm guessing all of this talk about Maye maybe not even being a 1st rounder will eventually come back around to him being a mid-late 1st round pick, at worst. It only takes one...
Will Levis went in the second round.


edit: Maye is not making it out of the top ten. Maye still has much better numbers on top of better measurables than Levis.

[GrantDawg]

Just listened to the open of the Mays podcast with Diana Russini, and... this is sounding like the near consensus. I guess I just fell for the sparkle of Fields, rather than thinking about contract specifics and "the answer" status.

Maybe they would be wise to drag this out and have him be the best answer for whomever loses out to Atlanta in getting Cousins?
I think the Bears came in hoping they could get a quick bidding war. Now they are seeing there is no one interested in Fields unless it is at a bargain, I think they are likely to hold him till teams strike out on plan A (and maybe B and C) and get desperate. The Bears fans thinking they are getting a top ten pick for him are laughable.

[Ksyrup]

Will Levis went in the second round.


edit: Maye is not making it out of the top ten. Maye still has much better numbers on top of better measurables than Levis.

For some reason I thought he got picked high. Like I said, I don't really follow this stuff very closely any more, ha!

[albionmoonlight]

I think the Bears came in hoping they could get a quick bidding war. Now they are seeing there is no one interested in Fields unless it is at a bargain, I think they are likely to hold him till teams strike out on plan A (and maybe B and C) and get desperate. The Bears fans thinking they are getting a top ten pick for him are laughable.

Bears should have also probably bluffed a bit better about being willing to keep Fields and trade #1 overall.

[QuikSand]

https://twitter.com/MathBomb

a must-follow during combine season...

[JonInMiddleGA]

edit: Maye is not making it out of the top ten. Maye still has much better numbers on top of better measurables than Levis.

And won't be any meaningful amount better as an NFL QB than Levis

[RainMaker]

The problem with Fields, I think, is that we've seen enough of him that it becomes harder for teams to see the potential over the reality.

I think that neither Fields nor Trey Lance will ever be a viable starting NFL QB (outside of a possible random lighting-in-a-bottle season). But if I had a third-round pick and I had to trade for one of them, I'd go with Lance just because Fields has so much more tape out there showing what he can't do. I can still fool myself with Lance.

Fields is tricky ecause the Bears are the Bears. There is no team out there that has a worse track record with quarterbacks. I genuinely think Caleb Williams would be smart to say he won't play for Chicago.

So I don't think Fields is "the guy". But I also realize he has had 2 really bad offensive coordinators in 3 years. His #1 receiver one year was Dante Pettis who I don't think is even in the league now. And they have consistently had one of the worst offensive lines in football.

I still think he can be good with the right coach and system. The Bears will never have that. There are definitely flaws in his game, but there are also moments where he's brilliant.

I'd rather take a 1-2 year flyer on him than drafting Bo Nix or Michael Penix. He's a pretty low risk guy to bring in.

[CrimsonFox]

Just because you said that girlss is gonna come out of the gate with a 300 yd 4 td game

[JPhillips]

https://twitter.com/MathBomb

a must-follow during combine season...

I never knew he looked like this. I love him even more.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How does the Relative Athletic Score help players reach their full potential?<a href="https://twitter.com/schwartzsteins?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@schwartzsteins</a> met up with Kent Lee Platte, the creator of the RAS to talk all things NFL Combine 🤝 <a href="https://t.co/71E3KYVLOz">pic.twitter.com/71E3KYVLOz</a></p>&mdash; TNF Prime Vision (@TNFPrimeVision) <a href="https://twitter.com/TNFPrimeVision/status/1763684907518132654?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Ksyrup]

He looks like a murderer from an 80s/90s TV show who dressed incognito so no one would recognize him - yet looks so out of place in costume as to draw more attention to himself than if he were to just walk down the street with a gun and knock on his victims door.

[GrantDawg]

Xavier Worthy just made himself a few million at the Combine, running a 4.22 40.

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[CrimsonFox]

Xavier Worthy just made himself a few million at the Combine, running a 4.22 40.

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I have NEVER been impressed with announcements like this. So what if he's fast. Doesn't mean he's fast AND can play football in the NFL

[GrantDawg]

Updated to 4.21. Fastest time ever at the Combine.

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[Atocep]

My personal QB rankings that no one cares about:

1.) Williams
2.) Maye
3.) Daniels
4.) Rattler
5.) Penix
6.) McCarthy

[QuikSand]

Louisville RB Isaac Guerendo broke the RB combine…

https://x.com/mathbomb/status/1763998087666700488?s=46&t=UiBSwlI6k0QxGYTxadQwhA

[weegeebored]

I have NEVER been impressed with announcements like this. So what if he's fast. Doesn't mean he's fast AND can play football in the NFLExactly. Combine numbers should be used as a tiebreaker and not a reason to draft a guy.

[GrantDawg]

The biggest thing I see coming out of the combine is the WR class may be more ridiculous than even previously thought. If you go by the way the analysts talk, half of the first round will be wide receivers.

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[JPhillips]

Between QB, WR, and OT there will be some bargains on defensive players.

[Bobble]

Between QB, WR, and OT there will be some bargains on defensive players.

You had me at "bargains on defensive players".

- signed, Your Detroit Lions.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The biggest thing I see coming out of the combine is the WR class may be more ridiculous than even previously thought. If you go by the way the analysts talk, half of the first round will be wide receivers.

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Agreed. Last year so many of the WRs were physical outliers in terms of size. This class seems much more in line with traditional height/weights and some impressive physical toolsets.

[GrantDawg]

The Panthers have ended contract talks with Brian Burns. You have to assume they are going to franchise tag him by tomorrow at this point, or they are even more inept than they seem.

[albionmoonlight]

The Panthers have ended contract talks with Brian Burns. You have to assume they are going to franchise tag him by tomorrow at this point, or they are even more inept than they seem.

Is there a worse run team than the Panthers right now?

[GrantDawg]

Is there a worse run team than the Panthers right now?
No, but after turning down two first in trade for him last year, if the team just let's him walk this year without compensation I think they might open themselves up to a class-action suit from their fans.

[GrantDawg]

Russel Wilson has official been notified he will be released in two weeks.

[RainMaker]

I just read that they turned down 2 firsts for him last year. What a disaster of a franchise.

[NobodyHere]

Russel Wilson has official been notified he will be released in two weeks.

And the Broncos will have $85 million in dead money this year from this move.

[cartman]

Let's see if Payton can replicate the cap situation that the Saints always seemed to be in the hole, but somehow got around it

[cartman]

Broncos Country, Let's Ride (you out of town on a rail)

[GrantDawg]

And the Broncos will have $85 million in dead money this year from this move.
It looks like they can still split that over the next two years, and ESPN seems to believe the Broncos have some power over how that will exactly be split up.

[GrantDawg]

Pro Football Talk says they have information that says Cousins has already started preparing to move his family to Atlanta. All rumors are rumors, but they don't tend to go too crazy on speculation unless they have specific information. This one feels a little more real.

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[Ryche]

Pro Football Talk says they have information that says Cousins has already started preparing to move his family to Atlanta. All rumors are rumors, but they don't tend to go too crazy on speculation unless they have specific information. This one feels a little more real.

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Always suspected that would be his landing spot given his wife is from there and they were married there. Perfect place for him to end his career and retire.

No idea how my Vikings are going to navigate QB this offseason. I know they would like to draft their future guy but the top 3 look pretty unreachable.

[bhlloy]

This feels like the year somebody outside the top 3 QBs hits, with so many in that top 30-45. The question is who, but I think a team with good scouting and and eye for... oh yeah, it's the Falcons.

[Thomkal]

The Panthers have ended contract talks with Brian Burns. You have to assume they are going to franchise tag him by tomorrow at this point, or they are even more inept than they seem.


They have franchised him now

[QuikSand]

No idea how my Vikings are going to navigate QB this offseason. I know they would like to draft their future guy but the top 3 look pretty unreachable.

Agreed, and if they want Jefferson to commit, they need to demonstrate (I'd think) that they are planning to offer a credible offensive product on the field for the foreseeable future. That's an added pressure that isn't present with most of the other in-the-QB-market teams, it seems.

[GrantDawg]

The Bucks have tagged Winfield Jr. Rumors say they have a deal basically in place for Mayfield, and they expect to announce it tomorrow. That would be one QB officially off the board.

[Ksyrup]

Seemed like TB releasing Mayfield was a prelude to bringing him back. The fit makes sense for another year or so.

[cartman]

Some Chiefs fans who got frostbite at playoff game need amputations (https://fox4kc.com/news/70-of-chiefs-fans-who-suffered-frostbite-at-bitter-cold-playoff-game-need-amputations/amp/)

[miami_fan]

First,when did we start classifying 70% of something as "some"?

Second, I noticed that they specifically mentioned Chiefs fans, I wonder how the Dolphins fans fared?

[CrimsonFox]

Was the Russell Wilson trade the worst ever? - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/was-the-russell-wilson-trade-the-worst-ever)

[CrimsonFox]

Okay let's go! WHich teams still need a starting QB? WHich have a starter and which have muiltiple scrubs and which have nothing? And which QBs are in FA?

[Kodos]

Some Chiefs fans who got frostbite at playoff game need amputations (https://fox4kc.com/news/70-of-chiefs-fans-who-suffered-frostbite-at-bitter-cold-playoff-game-need-amputations/amp/)

Wow. :eek: I love sports, but I ain't looking to part with any appendages for my team.

[miami_fan]

Was the Russell Wilson trade the worst ever? - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/was-the-russell-wilson-trade-the-worst-ever)

Is it the worst trade or the worst extension?

I mean just looking at the players now that all of the draft picks have been made, the trade itself still does not look like a bad trade. Russ for a Pro Bowl CB, an edge Rusher and an starting left tackle is not outrageous. It is not good but not outrageous It doesn't cause me the heaves like remembering Indianapolis traded a 1st rounder for Trent Richardson. Now the Russ extension, that was absolutely ridiculous.:lol:

[Ksyrup]

Did you forget the other players, or are you looking at just the draft picks? I'd take Noah Fant and Shelby Harris back in a second.

[albionmoonlight]

Judging trades by the player picked is also a little dicey.

If I trade a backup guard for a 6th round pick that turns into Tom Brady, is that the worst trade ever?

[bronconick]

Was the Russell Wilson trade the worst ever? - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/was-the-russell-wilson-trade-the-worst-ever)

Herschal Walker to Minnesota waves. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade)

[Ryche]

The Deshaun Watson trade is right there as well

[Thomkal]

Buffalo cut some good players yesterday to make cap room-curious to see where they end up

[weegeebored]

Let's not forget the Saints trade to draft Ricky Williams.

[albionmoonlight]

Saints going to release Mike Thomas.

He's spent the morning tweeting shit at the biggest douchebag of the local NOLA reporters.

I respect that. When you leave, none of this lame thanking the fans. Settle scores. Burn bridges. Go out a legend.

[RainMaker]

Didn't Thomas' issues start when he got hurt in a blowout and his ankle just never was the same? I remember that game because I thought it was crazy the Saints were keeping their starters in and then he got rolled up on bad.

[albionmoonlight]

100%. It was a total freak injury on a meaningless play.

Then there were issues with the rehab. Differing views on whether the team fucked it up or whether he refused the proper treatment. The Saints training staff sucks and MT is crazy, so I could see either of those being likely.

And he's never been the same since. Just can't stay on the field.

Some team will give him an incentive-laden prove-it deal. And if he stays healthy, it will be a steal. And if he does not, then that's probably it for him.

[GrantDawg]

The Dolphins are signing Jonnu Smith to a two year, ten million dollar deal. Word is Arthur Smith cannot stop crying.

[miami_fan]

Did you forget the other players, or are you looking at just the draft picks? I'd take Noah Fant and Shelby Harris back in a second.

I did.

Fant's targets and catches have dropped from 90/68 in his last season with the Broncos to to 63/50 and 43/32 with the Seahawks. Not saying that he is on a decline but that stat line does not scream out someone that was not worth giving up in a trade for a franchise QB. The Broncos could have resigned Harris last offseason and they could resign him this offseason as well.

I defer to you as you watch them every week and follow them more closely than I do. I just don't get the impression that Bronco fans or anyone else is saying that including Fant and Harris not to mention Drew Lock in the trade make that a bad trade. The deal including the picks was a risky move that did not pan out if you just have Russ in the second year of the extension he signed with Seattle in 2019. He would have also been a UFA right now. We would have seen it as the team taking a shot to get a franchise QB and they missed.

[Ksyrup]

I'm thinking of it more from the standpoint of what we lost and didn't replace. Denver's run D was terrible. Another safety blanket dump-off receiving target for Wilson wouldn't have hurt.

[flere-imsaho]

If I trade a backup guard for a 6th round pick that turns into Tom Brady, is that the worst trade ever?

I would say it's the most unfortunate trade ever.

[bhlloy]

Thing is regarding the Wilson trade, the need and expectation of a max contract was built into the price of the return. I don’t think you can just separate them like that.

If you were getting an all-pro 9x pro bowl Super Bowl winning QB on a long term reasonable second contract he was willing to play on, the price would have been higher and way more teams would have been in on it. Same as Watson.

[miami_fan]

How the hell did the Rams convince Matthew Stafford to wait until after he played for a year and won a Super Bowl with the Rams before he signed his new deal?

[cuervo72]

Of course with Wilson, you're also getting a QB who is well into his 30s. I know I know, Brady. But I saw a graphic on SB appearances by exp of QB, and the vast majority of them were guys with I think 8 years or fewer in the league. Brady and Manning were the big outliers. (Elway too if you go back far enough.)

I can't find it now, but age is a good enough proxy, I guess: Super Bowl Starting QBs | Pro Football Hall of Fame (https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2020/02/news-super-bowl-starting-qbs/)

[Sweed]

How the hell did the Rams convince Matthew Stafford to wait until after he played for a year and won a Super Bowl with the Rams before he signed his new deal?

He valued getting out of Detroit and in LA more than the Rams valued getting him? The Rams had a QB (leverage) and could go on as is.

If Denver wanted, what looked to be a top QB, they had no other options, so no leverage?

[GrantDawg]

Of course with Wilson, you're also getting a QB who is well into his 30s. I know I know, Brady. But I saw a graphic on SB appearances by exp of QB, and the vast majority of them were guys with I think 8 years or fewer in the league. Brady and Manning were the big outliers. (Elway too if you go back far enough.)

I can't find it now, but age is a good enough proxy, I guess: Super Bowl Starting QBs | Pro Football Hall of Fame (https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2020/02/news-super-bowl-starting-qbs/)
I don't buy into to that. For one, it is like the very definition of small sample size. Because Brady has been in so many Super Bowls if you take his appearances out then you make that sample size even smaller. You basically had someone blocking out other quarterbacks from half the equation a couple a decades. Then you have Stafford just doing it two years ago. Then Peyton, Kurt Warner (at 37!). I'm not sure if Eli, Brees or Ryan were still within their first 8 years, but they were 31. The 30's barrier isn't really much of a barrier for Super Bowls. Even as look further back there are 31+ year olds making it pretty consistently.

[Carman Bulldog]

If memory serves, I don't think it was Wilson that was pushing for a new contract. He still had two years left.

I believe what happened was that the Walton's bought the team and decided to come into the NFL like a bunch of big swinging dicks by putting their (mushroom) stamp on the franchise ("oh, look at us, we're rich and powerful and making an impact").

I'll try and find a source for this. As much as George Paton should get roasted for the trade (and Nathaniel Hackett), I believe he was at the mercy of the new ownership group when it came to the contract.

I also don't think more teams would have been in on him. There were people saying he was in decline even before he was traded by the Seahawks.

Edit for links:

Report: GM George Paton Safe, Wanted to Wait on Wilson Extension (https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/george-paton-rumor-safe-russell-wilson-extension)

Inside the Russell Wilson-Seattle Seahawks drama that led to the Denver Broncos trade (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34531802/inside-russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-drama-led-denver-broncos-trade)

Russell Wilson’s prime is over (https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/11/30/22809315/seattle-seahawks-qb-russell-wilsons-prime-over-deep-qbr-system-run-game-souffle)

[CrimsonFox]

Wow Raiders, Giants, Steelers into the Russell Wison lottery

huh

[CrimsonFox]

Herschal Walker to Minnesota waves. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade)

WOW! Even if Walker delivered Minn gave up WAY WAY WAY too many picks!

[Ksyrup]

Jerry Jeudy to the Browns for a 5th and 6th. Seems light but he's never been great.

[Atocep]

Herschal Walker to Minnesota waves. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade)

The Ricky Williams trade was god awful as well. The Redskins essentially pulled Champ Bailey and LaVar Arrington from that trade.

[JPhillips]

The Bengals could have had all of those picks but they went with Akili Smith instead.

[CrimsonFox]

The Bengals could have had all of those picks but they went with Akili Smith instead.

fucking akili smith...

[Ryche]

Jerry Jeudy to the Browns for a 5th and 6th. Seems light but he's never been great.

Never lived up to the hype. Has shown flashes but that's it. Combined with the 13 million he is making this season, I'm almost surprised they got anything for him.

[Ksyrup]

I suppose they are going to stick with Sutton and then Tim Patrick was just re-signed to see if he can come back from back-to-back season-ending injuries.

My daughter was ecstatic about Patrick re-signing because she bought his jersey almost 3 years ago and he hasn't played a down since then.

[Carman Bulldog]

The past four seasons, it felt like Sutton, Patrick, Jeudy and Hamler (then Mims) would constantly get talked up in OTA's and training camp with people asking "Is this the year the young Broncos wide receivers are going to breakout?" It feels like we've finally moved on from that.

[stevew]

Jerry Jeudy to the Browns for a 5th and 6th. Seems light but he's never been great.

Kinda thought they were lucky to get anything for him given his relatively large guaranteed salary and meh performance. He is approx the 30th WR in salary for 2024

[Thomkal]

looks like the QB dominoes are beginning to fall-Mac Jones to the jags for a late round pick. Seems a bit of a strange place for him to land

[cartman]

looks like the QB dominoes are beginning to fall-Mac Jones to the jags for a late round pick. Seems a bit of a strange place for him to land

+1

this is a weird one to me

[bhlloy]

The QB position in today’s NFL is just so wild. You’ve got a player who was right in the middle of the pack statistically as a rookie, second in ROY voting, takes an average team to the playoffs and is widely considered the best QB in the draft. Then yes, two bad ones but under very challenging circumstances with instability in the coaching staff and probably one of the worst receiving corps in the league.

And yet they’d rather jettison him before they’ve even picked somebody in the upcoming draft for basically nothing. Not even worth bringing into camp and seeing if he settles into a backup role with the new staff. And what is even more wild is no other team with a need for a young QB thinks he’s worth a sixth round pick to bring into camp and see if he works in their system. He’s forced to go a team where he’s the unquestioned mop up guy if their highly touted young QB gets hurt, and I imagine there’s a chance he’s not even on the roster at the start of the season.

Maybe it’s just that player evaluation is so strong now that it’s obvious when a player doesn’t have it and maybe if you don’t have a top 10 QB you have no chance but plenty of decent serviceable QBs have struggled their first few years in the league. If you don’t hit a HR with your QB pick, rather turn down the single and try again for another HR a few years later.

[stevew]

Someone paid 100K for a 1/1 Prizm Mac Jones football card a few years back. Not looking good.

[Thomkal]

Baker Mayfield gets his deal with the Bucs:


https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1766934530709950499

[GrantDawg]

Pretty good deal for the Buccs. $50 million guaranteed for the next two years. They can walk away from it at the end of next year for a $20 million cap hit. It is basically a $30 million a year deal for the next two years. He can make more with incentives. I think he would have gotten a bigger contract elsewhere if he had hit the market tomorrow.

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[stevew]

I think it’s a good fit. Hopefully it at least keeps asses in the seats.

[stevew]

Steelers country, let’s ride!

[Atocep]

Steelers country, let’s ride!

Mr. Un-Liiiimited

[stevew]

Front office is already chilling the champagne for the 8 and a half win party next year.

[GrantDawg]

Today is going to be interesting. I think we will see a few big moves and get a read on where a few others are leaning.

[korme]

Tee Higgins has requested a trade.

[Ksyrup]

And there goes Cousins.

[miami_fan]

Saquon to the Eagles.

[GrantDawg]

This is how you make an announcement. LFG!
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kirk Cousins. <br><br>This is from the source. And The Force. <a href="https://t.co/FmQCPNGThW">pic.twitter.com/FmQCPNGThW</a></p>&mdash; Kyle Brandt (@KyleBrandt) <a href="https://twitter.com/KyleBrandt/status/1767256265275613265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 11, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[GrantDawg]

The first "agree to a contract and change his mind" goes to Will Lutz. He agreed to terms with Jacksonville, but then resigned with the Vroncos

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[albionmoonlight]

Falcons underachieved with a shitty coach and shittier QB.

They’ve replaced them both.

The details of how good Kirk cousins actually is obscures the fact that they are fixing obvious problems

[Lathum]

Some fans undergo amputations after frigid Chiefs playoff game against Dolphins | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/chiefs-dolphins-fans-frostbite-amputations-arrowhead-stadium-6c46520e3c2ed0adcb8014c03be731c7)

[stevew]

Brian Burns to the Giants via trade

[GrantDawg]

The Panthers turned down two first and second for him last year to get a second and a fith this year. They are really bad at this.

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[RainMaker]

Thanking the Panthers for Caleb Williams.

[weegeebored]

I'm not convinced that the Bears take Williams. Based on recent history, my gut says Poles will trade down. Given teams' QB situations he might just keep Fields as he would be lucky to get a 3rd rounder now. And he's not exactly lighting the world on fire in FA. Needed a safety so I guess Byard is fine, but Swift and Bates? Maybe he's going hard after Hunter. If Poles doesn't make a big splash you can bet he's going to trade down to get more picks to fill spots.

[RainMaker]

I'm not convinced that the Bears take Williams. Based on recent history, my gut says Poles will trade down. Given teams' QB situations he might just keep Fields as he would be lucky to get a 3rd rounder now. And he's not exactly lighting the world on fire in FA. Needed a safety so I guess Byard is fine, but Swift and Bates? Maybe he's going hard after Hunter. If Poles doesn't make a big splash you can bet he's going to trade down to get more picks to fill spots.

If he doesn't start making splashes, he should be out the door with Eberflus.

Still pretty sure they're taking Caleb. You just don't get the chance to take a QB of that caliber often. I like Fields to an extent, but I don't think he's the special kind of QB who can win you championships. And the Bears are never going to have the coaching that can develop him.

[Lathum]

Thanking the Panthers for Caleb Williams.

I think Williams is a bust at the next level and his dad will be a nightmare

[RainMaker]

I think Williams is a bust at the next level and his dad will be a nightmare

Him being drafted by the Bears guarantees that but I don't know what other options the Bears have.

[rjolley]

I can accept either direction that the Bears take at QB so I've stopped really caring about it and am looking at other positions. Byard and Swift are fine, but if Bates is the best of what we're adding at C, whoever is behind him will be under pressure yet again.

[weegeebored]

If he doesn't start making splashes, he should be out the door with Eberflus.

Still pretty sure they're taking Caleb. You just don't get the chance to take a QB of that caliber often. I like Fields to an extent, but I don't think he's the special kind of QB who can win you championships. And the Bears are never going to have the coaching that can develop him.Fields is a great athlete who is an average QB on his best day. I think Poles was banking on MIN re-signing Cousins and ATL would be desperate enough to give up a 2nd round pick plus a day 3. Oops. It also means that teams that want to move up can deal for the 8th pick which many GMs might think is a better option than Fields. Williams is the "safe" pick; if he busts Poles can argue that he did his homework and the general consensus is that Williams was considered to be generational. He will still lose his job, of course. I think Caleb will be above average in the NFL, but not a Tier 1. Then there's his management team. That's the real headache in this decision.

[RainMaker]

I can accept either direction that the Bears take at QB so I've stopped really caring about it and am looking at other positions. Byard and Swift are fine, but if Bates is the best of what we're adding at C, whoever is behind him will be under pressure yet again.

I really don't understand why they're bargain shopping on the offensive line when it's clearly been a huge issue for years. Guess things never change in Chicago. At some point a GM has to commit to improving the offensive line.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think Williams is a bust at the next level and his dad will be a nightmare

Make that two of us.

[miami_fan]

I think Williams is a bust at the next level and his dad will be a nightmare

Can someone explain what the issues are with his dad? I have heard he is handling Caleb's draft in a similar way as Archie Manning''s handling of Eli's and that has been seen as a positive. On the other hand, I have heard he is the NFL's version of Lavar Ball and that is obviously seen as a negative. I had to google "Caleb Williams father" to find out what he looks like and that his first name is Carl. That alone makes the comparison to Lavar Ball seem outlandish.

[Swaggs]

I’ve seen a handful of former NFL players suggest that Williams has the tools, but that his game is not going to be anywhere near NFL ready this season. Ryan Leaf, who is surprisingly insightful as an analyst, talked a lot about him in a recent Dan Patrick interview

[Swaggs]

Dola…. Looking over the free agent running backs and this seems like a particularly loaded class at that position.

I know they are starting to come off the board and some of them are high mileage, but Barkley, Henry, Jacobs, Ekeler, and just released Joe Mixon all seem like they could be starting upgrades for a lot of teams. Then Pollard, Dobbins, Swift, Singletary, and Edwards-Helaire all seem like potentially good adds to split Carrie’s with.

[rjolley]

Can someone explain what the issues are with his dad? I have heard he is handling Caleb's draft in a similar way as Archie Manning''s handling of Eli's and that has been seen as a positive. On the other hand, I have heard he is the NFL's version of Lavar Ball and that is obviously seen as a negative. I had to google "Caleb Williams father" to find out what he looks like and that his first name is Carl. That alone makes the comparison to Lavar Ball seem outlandish.

The short of it is most of the negative comments that have come from Williams' camp, not wanting to play in Chicago, wanting ownership, going back to college if he doesn't go where he wants, etc, have been attributed to the dad. From reports, he's a protective dad who's trying to steer his son to glory.

Caleb, on the other hand, has been said to have his own voice and has not corroborated any of the comments made by his dad. It appears that he'd like to play for the Commanders, but h's more interested in going #1 and winning. He'll play where he's drafted.

The dad is more Lavar-lite; a little bit more than your average dad and probably more akin to protective dads of top high school talents going into college.

[Ksyrup]

I can hardly believe I just read that if you only count the guarantees in Kirk Cousins new contract, he's now made $3M less than Tom Brady in lifetime earnings.

I know Brady took a lot of team-friendly deals, but that's just a ridiculous fact.

[miami_fan]

The short of it is most of the negative comments that have come from Williams' camp, not wanting to play in Chicago, wanting ownership, going back to college if he doesn't go where he wants, etc, have been attributed to the dad. From reports, he's a protective dad who's trying to steer his son to glory.

Caleb, on the other hand, has been said to have his own voice and has not corroborated any of the comments made by his dad. It appears that he'd like to play for the Commanders, but h's more interested in going #1 and winning. He'll play where he's drafted.

The dad is more Lavar-lite; a little bit more than your average dad and probably more akin to protective dads of top high school talents going into college.

Thanks. There is no such thing as Lavar-lite though. :lol:

[miami_fan]

I can hardly believe I just read that if you only count the guarantees in Kirk Cousins new contract, he's now made $3M less than Tom Brady in lifetime earnings.

I know Brady took a lot of team-friendly deals, but that's just a ridiculous fact.

Much like Darrelle Revis, Cousins is an absolute legend at the bank. Good for him.

[weegeebored]

Darnell Mooney gets 3 years, $39M from Atlanta. Seems like a big overpay.

[Thomkal]

After announcing that they were not going to resign Joe mixon, they traded him to Houston. Looks like Derrick henry is going to sign with baltimore. quite the rb rodeo so far-lots of teams not resigning and they are signing almost immediately elsewhere

[molson]

These RBs can revitalize the market for their position if they can perform on these new deals. If they're all washed, it will sink them even further.

[Thomkal]

In another kind of free agent deal, Jacksonville employee Amit Patel gets 6 and a half years in prison from stealing from the team-no dollar amounts on that new contract

[weegeebored]

I really don't understand why they're bargain shopping on the offensive line when it's clearly been a huge issue for years. Guess things never change in Chicago. At some point a GM has to commit to improving the offensive line.I've been thinking about this and you're right -- things don't change because Bears ownership is cheap. I doubt that Poles has the go-ahead to spend big even though they have plenty of cap space. Maybe a big signing is in the offing, but I doubt that their going to pay Hunter the $30M per that he wants. I don't want Chase Young or Clowney. And there is some talk about Josh Uche. Um, no thanks unless he's at a bargain price for 2 years or less and the Bears have plans for an edge rusher in the draft. Why does this year feel like the same old, same old?

[Honolulu_Blue]

In another kind of free agent deal, Jacksonville employee Amit Patel gets 6 and a half years in prison from stealing from the team-no dollar amounts on that new contract

Heh! I saw somewhere it was reported as 6 yrs/$22 million with $21 million in restitution. None of the restitution is guaranteed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So far, the Lions have traded a 3rd round pick for oft-injured CB Carlton Davis and two 6th rounders and signed DE Marcus Davenport.

I mean, those are definitely the positions that need to be addressed in free agency, I am just not sure these players are sufficient upgrades. The Lions window is now!

[QuikSand]

Darnell Mooney gets 3 years, $39M from Atlanta. Seems like a big overpay.

...my reaction, too. A team has had him on the roster and openly complained "they don't have anyone for our young QB to throw to."

Now someone backs up more money/yr for him than any of the parade of RBs we're seeing out there? I'm not feeling it. I'd be thinking of Mooney as a 1y/6m sort of guy, closer to, say, the DJ Chark tier.

[Thomkal]

Heh! I saw somewhere it was reported as 6 yrs/$22 million with $21 million in restitution. None of the restitution is guaranteed.


:eek:

[cartman]

In another kind of free agent deal, Jacksonville employee Amit Patel gets 6 and a half years in prison from stealing from the team-no dollar amounts on that new contract

I smell another The Longest Yard remake!

[weegeebored]

Reports are that the Bears have signed TE Gerald Everett, 2 years $12M. They needed a TE2 but just a another meh signing. It appears that Poles is trying to fill roster holes at bargain prices which indicates to me now that he's taking a QB with the 1.1 pick. Let's see how many of these get filled.

[GrantDawg]

Darnell Mooney gets 3 years, $39M from Atlanta. Seems like a big overpay.
quote=QuikSand;3428345]...my reaction, too. A team has had him on the roster and openly complained "they don't have anyone for our young QB to throw to."

Now someone backs up more money/yr for him than any of the parade of RBs we're seeing out there? I'm not feeling it. I'd be thinking of Mooney as a 1y/6m sort of guy, closer to, say, the DJ Chark tier.[/quote]


I was wondering the same thing. I think they are going off this:



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<samp><code>edit: Thinking about it, this is that stat that probably explains why Justin Fields has generated no interest. Fans may have complained about the lack of open targets, but the film is saying they were open, the team lacked a quarterback that could throw to them.</code></samp>

[rjolley]

I really don't understand why they're bargain shopping on the offensive line when it's clearly been a huge issue for years. Guess things never change in Chicago. At some point a GM has to commit to improving the offensive line.

This is part of the reason I don't want Williams. If we can get picks/player and have a shot at one of the rookie Cs and more rookie offensive linemen, then let's do it and get the roster together for the next hot QB that we can trade up for.

Like weegee said, this is starting to feel like more of the same which is not how I expected to feel coming into this season.

[GrantDawg]

Crazy info: there was not a single GM at Bo Nix's Pro Day, and only one Head Coach. The Bears Matt Eberflus was there with a large Bear staff contingent.

[weegeebored]

They were more likely there to see C Powers-Johnson than Nix.

[RainMaker]

This is part of the reason I don't want Williams. If we can get picks/player and have a shot at one of the rookie Cs and more rookie offensive linemen, then let's do it and get the roster together for the next hot QB that we can trade up for.

Like weegee said, this is starting to feel like more of the same which is not how I expected to feel coming into this season.

It's just such a bizarre strategy. Every 4-5 years the Bears draft a QB, give him a shit coach, then throw him behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league. Then they can't figure out why the guy was a bust.

The team is now spending it's cap space on another running back (they had 2 decent ones) and a backup tight end. Just insane.

[GrantDawg]

I didn't think anybody was seriously thinking the Bears would take Nix.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

This is how you make an announcement. LFG!


Like his presentation style! Wonder if he can get sued for it?

Really no idea how well this will work out. But kinda glad it takes us out of the draft-rookie-QB-roulette.

[Carman Bulldog]

Crazy info: there was not a single GM at Bo Nix's Pro Day, and only one Head Coach. The Bears Matt Eberflus was there with a large Bear staff contingent.

I'm not saying it's the case here, but it's not unheard of for teams to try and mask their interest in players, particularly given that teams may have felt they saw what they needed to at the combine. Admittedly though, it would be odd for all teams to come to this conclusion.

[CrimsonFox]

Raiders signing Gardner Minshew is awesome. The gang at bob and tom will love that considering Chick and ACe are Raiders fans.

[CrimsonFox]

I dunno about falcons and Kirk Cousins....I think he'll bust and get injured again.

[RainMaker]

I'm not saying it's the case here, but it's not unheard of for teams to try and mask their interest in players, particularly given that teams may have felt they saw what they needed to at the combine. Admittedly though, it would be odd for all teams to come to this conclusion.

They're there for Jackson Powers-Johnson. Talk is if one of the top wide receivers isn't on the board at 9, the Bears would trade back and grab him to play Center.

[weegeebored]

Danielle Hunter to Houston, 2 years $49M. The Bears could have afforded that. Does "Bargain Bin" Poles have a clue?

[CrimsonFox]

Russell Wilson signing a league minimum deal with the Steelers for one year. :)
"NO PROMISES" about whether he'll he'll even start or not as Pickett is still there.

I mean he's still got millions from the broncos so at this point it's all just fun on a bun.

[GrantDawg]

Word is that the Commanders actually offered Hunter more money. Teams like Atlanta also offered him more years. He took a little bit less money to go home to Texas.

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[CrimsonFox]

so like all those Justin Fields to Raiders rumours are kinda false now that Minshew is there. Bears running out of places to trade him. Chargers rumoured.

[RainMaker]

Danielle Hunter to Houston, 2 years $49M. The Bears could have afforded that. Does "Bargain Bin" Poles have a clue?

Need backup safeties and tight ends. Who cares about the trenches?

[Thomkal]

I dunno about falcons and Kirk Cousins....I think he'll bust and get injured again.


yeah after seeing what happened this last season to Aaron Rodgers and the jets, I would have thought twice about Cousins