DOGE progress discussion

[Edward64]

The DOGE dashboard ...

https://www.doge-tracker.com/


Top half is summary totals. Bottom half has list of "initiatives" where savings were found.

Note the dashboard says $2T is still the goal and 494 days remaining. It says $52B in savings so far. No doubt it'll jump as DOGE gets to the bigger budgets at Health and Human Services, Defense etc.

I do like the dashboard and the transparency it provides. We know there's been mistakes in some claims, and there's been challenges and corrections. But it does give the media & fact checkers something to verify and challenge; and this is good.

Bottom-line to me. An initiative to find waste & fraud is good. But the execution can be better (e.g. the past 3-4 days of confusion regarding listing what a person been doing or else, unnecessary friction with Agency heads who are already Trump loyalists etc.).

[Lathum]

They aren’t finding fraud. They are cutting programs so they can funnel money for their trillion dollar tax cuts. Its laughable anyone could actually think they want to reduce spending and have some altruistic notions.

[Edward64]

Fair enough re: fraud. I wasn't careful enough with my choice of words. From wiki

DOGE is a temporary organization under the United States DOGE Service (formerly the United States Digital Service). Its purpose is to carry out spending cuts and to "modernize federal technology and software to maximize governmental efficiency and productivity". DOGE is scheduled to end on July 4, 2026.

[JPhillips]

lol

It's already been shown they are inflating numbers and many of the canceled contracts have already been paid out. They aren't close to 52 billion, probably still under 10 billion.

And all of it's illegal horseshit. If they want to make cuts, do it through the legal channels.

[whomario]

"transparency" :lol:

[cuervo72]

Find another board for shit threads like this.

[whomario]

lol

It's already been shown they are inflating numbers and many of the canceled contracts have already been paid out. They aren't close to 52 billion, probably still under 10 billion.

And all of it's illegal horseshit. If they want to make cuts, do it through the legal channels.

And what remains often is stuff agencies paid for to enable employees to effectively do their job, attract better employees, keep employees etc. To say it's not needed ... That's not something you figure out by having a 20 year old with no expertise looking at the title of a 'contract' going "eh, that sounds woke, be gone! Money saved!"

It's pretty shortsighted to treat this like there's no drawbacks to government agencies potentially not being in a position to provide services they are tasked with providing for cheap political points. Or Cult points.

[Atocep]

There would have been very little pushback from anyone if this had been done correctly. Elon and his gang have zero government experience, don't know the systems, don't understand the impact of what they're doing, don't see how certain things are connected to the funding they're cutting, and are misleading the public on what they are doing by inflating numbers and blatantly lying.

The people that have looked over the DOGE data that's on that website have put the real amount "saved" at less than 6 billion. You don't get to claim credit for the full amount of a contract that you cut when it's 4 years into a 5 year deal. There's also what's simply bad math where the numbers they claim don't add up.

The problem is the waste isn't where they and many other people are convinced it is and it's nowhere near the extent they wanted to see. So they're making shit up to justify their work and inflating the numbers because they started off with an absurd goal of $2 trillion.

[Mota]

Is there an FX rate calculator for DOGE? Instead of money saved, they should list how many people they have fired.

[Edward64]

There would have been very little pushback from anyone if this had been done correctly.

Yes, I agree with you. The current process lacks rigor and is unnecessarily confrontational. It's his Congress for the next 2 years.

The people that have looked over the DOGE data that's on that website have put the real amount "saved" at less than 6 billion. You don't get to claim credit for the full amount of a contract that you cut when it's 4 years into a 5 year deal. There's also what's simply bad math where the numbers they claim don't add up.
There no doubt there's issues with DOGE accounting. I've seen $6B and < $10B tossed around.

Someone needs to create a "doge-tracker-corrections.com" that parallels it and come up with the details on why the savings is valid or not.

[Edward64]

Here's a sampling of inaccuracies ...

Just a moment... (https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/22/doge-data-errors-inconsistencies-00002576)
But among the 1,100-plus contracts purportedly canceled, POLITICO found:


Contracts that had not yet been awarded
Instances where a single pot of money is listed multiple times — tripling or quadrupling the amount of savings claimed
Purchase agreements that have no record of being canceled, but were instead stripped of language related to diversity, equity and inclusion
Contract savings identified by DOGE that do not match with records they refer to in the Federal Procurement Data System
Contracts where the underlying document is for an entirely different contract

[Lathum]

So if you know it isn't accurate why are you creating a whole thread dedicated to following it and posting the dashboard that is completely inaccurate?

[Edward64]

So if you know it isn't accurate why are you creating a whole thread dedicated to following it and posting the dashboard that is completely inaccurate?

Because (1) not all of it is inaccurate and (2) I'm interested in seeing what else DOGE finds.

Why don't you want to see what DOGE says they've found?

[GrantDawg]

Because (1) not all of it is inaccurate and (2) I'm interested in seeing what else DOGE finds.

Why don't you want to see what DOGE says they've found?
Because they lie about what they fine. Why do you care why someone who is a proven liar says?

[Lathum]

Because (1) not all of it is inaccurate and (2) I'm interested in seeing what else DOGE finds.

Why don't you want to see what DOGE says they've found?

This sounds a lot like being almost pregnant.

You realize 20 year old interns have zero clue about what they are actually finding in there?

[Edward64]

Because they lie about what they fine. Why do you care why someone who is a proven liar says?

Because (1) not all of it are lies and (2) I'm interested in seeing what else DOGE finds

The biggest parts with Defense, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Health etc. are still to come.

[Lathum]

Because (1) not all of it are lies and (2) I'm interested in seeing what else DOGE finds

The biggest parts with Defense, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Health etc. are still to come.

They have proven to be an incompetent group of liars. The fact you are admitting they are telling lies should make you question anything they publish.

Why would you think what they claim to find with the bigger programs would be accurate?

They shouldn't even have access to those databases let alone any authority to make changes or cuts.

[Fidatelo]

Jon Stewart nailed the DOGE situation this week. Most people are open to the premise, but the execution is laughable and the meaningful waste is not even being targeted: - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utl2uLh1wVI)

[Edward64]

They have proven to be an incompetent group of liars. The fact you are admitting they are telling lies should make you question anything they publish.

Why would you think what they claim to find with the bigger programs would be accurate?
DOGE will declare what they have found and saved. And that amount will be inaccurate.

However, MSM and fact checkers will verify DOGE claims (like they are now) and give us the accurate no. Right now, they say approx $6B out of $52B.

I want to know the accurate no.

[JPhillips]

Trump just made the DHS Sec. spend a couple hundred million to run commercials praising Trump for deportations. Sounds like waste to me.

[flere-imsaho]

On top of the flat out lying (that I'll echo from other posters here), I think we'll find that most of the "legit" savings are along the lines of:

"Hey, I stopped paying my mortgage and now I'm saving myself $2000/month!"

[dubb93]

It should have been a legit audit of every agency by actual auditors who know what they are doing. Instead it’s a Ketamine addict leading a bunch of internet dude bros snooping in things they have no idea about. It’s the ultimate government waste.

[flere-imsaho]

Look, I've worked with Private Equity guys who were actively involved in asset stripping a company they had bought who were being more circumspect about identifying and cutting expenses than DOGE.

[flere-imsaho]

It’s the ultimate government waste.

Exactly. Edward - are they tracking the cost of their mistakes, like when they fired key people and then had to re-hire them?

[flere-imsaho]

DOGE will declare what they have found and saved. And that amount will be inaccurate.

However, MSM and fact checkers will verify DOGE claims (like they are now) and give us the accurate no. Right now, they say approx $6B out of $52B.

I want to know the accurate no.


"I gave my car to a 5-year-old kid down the street and he completely disassembled it. The good news is that it's not making that rattling noise anymore. The bad news is that the real mechanic I just had look at it told me it'll cost me twice what I paid for it to put it back together again."

[Edward64]

Exactly. Edward - are they tracking the cost of their mistakes, like when they fired key people and then had to re-hire them?
I doubt it.

Scanning through the "initiatives" in the website, it doesn't seem to contain the cost savings for the headcount reductions (e.g. letting the bunch of probationary people go). It may in the future, but don't know.

But even if they did, I'm pretty sure they won't track what you asked. I'm guessing the re-hires aren't really rehires, but cancellation of terminations. And if there really were re-hires (e.g. 3 months later), I'd think the nos. are relatively small to the no. terminated.


FWIW, government payroll is about $271B (2022). I've seen 5-10% staff terminations in my career, so using that rule of thumb, a swag of up $30B in annual savings. No idea if realistic but just a benchmark for myself if/when the termination savings $ are revealed.

[JPhillips]

And how many staff reductions are being replaced with contractors? Twenty years ago my wife was a contractor for the SEC. She cost them more than a staff paralegal, but they could point to the reduction in staffing and call it a savings.

[Danny]

Id be shocked if in the long run the whole doge reductions end up having a net savings of even $1

[Edward64]

And how many staff reductions are being replaced with contractors? Twenty years ago my wife was a contractor for the SEC. She cost them more than a staff paralegal, but they could point to the reduction in staffing and call it a savings.

I wish I could tell you but no one knows, we'll have to wait and see.

Question to you - are you against an initiative of finding government waste, inefficiencies etc.? or are you for it, not just how DOGE is doing it?

[JPhillips]

I'm fine with making government more efficient. I just want it done with purpose and through legal means. This is neither.

[Edward64]

Id be shocked if in the long run the whole doge reductions end up having a net savings of even $1

If you mean savings as in the approx $2T annual deficit will be reduced, I share it.

As someone else mentioned (and I tend to agree), the found "savings" here will be redirected to "spend" somewhere else, and the net won't be $2T saved but $2T repurposed for other things like extension of Trump tax cuts.

[Edward64]

Meet your new DOGE overlord.

Why Trump doesn't just officially hire Musk in some sort of new department or cabinet position, I'm sure he'll get the votes in Congress.

Amy Gleason is the acting administrator of the US DOGE Service, the agency that houses the temporary Department of Government Efficiency, a White House official told CNN on Tuesday.

https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/amy-gleason-linkedin.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_500,w_700,c_fill/f_webp

[Lathum]

Not a fan of the person assigned to "trim the fat" looking like she never orders the salad.

[larrymcg421]

Not a fan of the person assigned to "trim the fat" looking like she never orders the salad.

Um. What?

[Edward64]

We know there's been mistakes in some claims, and there's been challenges and corrections. But it does give the media & fact checkers something to verify and challenge; and this is good.
The good news and willingness to correct when challenged ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/25/upshot/doge-spending-cuts-changed.html
Now the organization, which is also known as the U.S. DOGE Service, has deleted all of the five biggest “savings” on that original list, after The New York Times and other media outlets pointed out they were riddled with errors.

An $8 billion cut at Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The actual contract in question was worth $8 million.
Three $655 million cuts at the U.S. Agency for International Development. This was actually a single cut that was erroneously counted three times, as first reported by CBS News.
A $232 million cut at the Social Security Administration ... Instead, as reported by The Intercept, it had canceled only a tiny piece of it: a $560,000 project to let users mark their gender as “X.” The DOGE site now shows that small cut instead.

The bad news, new inaccuracies.

Some of the new canceled contracts added this week appear to make some of the same types of errors.

The largest savings on the latest version of its list is a $1.9 billion cut at the Treasury Department. But The Times reported last week that this contract was canceled last fall, when Joseph R. Biden Jr. was president — and when DOGE did not yet exist.

I really want something like this, real time fact checker

Someone needs to create a "doge-tracker-corrections.com" that parallels it and come up with the details on why the savings is valid or not.

[Lathum]

Um. What?

What don't you get?

[Mota]

What don't you get?

You could probably pick at a lot of things before needing to mock her appearance.

I wonder how much they're paying her to be an official employee who just serves as a front for Elon? That seems like a good target for DOGE.

[Lathum]

These people deserve to be mocked about everything and anything. Someone who is charged with finding excess who clearly doesn’t grasp the concept of excess should be mocked. The right certainly has no issues mocking people’s appearances so neither will I. The time for being nice is over.

[larrymcg421]

Someone who is charged with finding excess who clearly doesn’t grasp the concept of excess should be mocked.

Maybe one of the dumbest things ever written on this board. The rest of your post is just morally bankrupt justification for atrocious behavior.

[Lathum]

Maybe one of the dumbest things ever written on this board. The rest of your post is just morally bankrupt justification for atrocious behavior.

I can live with that. Keep clutching those pearls.

[cuervo72]

So if you know it isn't accurate why are you creating a whole thread dedicated to following it and posting the dashboard that is completely inaccurate?

Because he's a troll and has always been a troll. Apparently there's no way to vote him off the island though so we have to put up with it, only able to mitigate it through putting him on ignore, but that does nothing about the "I'm just asking questions" threads that he insists on making.

Edit: maybe more propagandist than troll, but you know what I mean.

[Edward64]

This would be fun!

I wouldn't be surprised if Musk backed-off. But then, I don't think Paramount-MTV-Comedy Central-Daily Show wants this either.

But if it does happen, I think 50-50 that it could be a solid interview.

Elon Musk will go on 'Daily Show' if 'unedited': See show's response (https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2025/02/27/elon-musk-daily-show-jon-stewart-doge/80669525007/)
Elon Musk could be headed to "The Daily Show" to go toe-to-toe with host Jon Stewart, a frequent outspoken critic of both the Trump administration and the billionaire's efforts to slash government spending.
After the episode aired, Musk's supporters began clamoring on social media site X, which he owns, for the tech mogul to go on "The Daily Show" for a one-on-one conversation with Stewart. Musk appeared to accept the challenge, replying Tuesday to one user, "I will do it if the show airs unedited."

"The Daily Show" took notice, reposting the message Wednesday from its official account accepting the terms.

"We'd be delighted!" read the response, which tagged Musk.

[sovereignstar v2]

Oh sweet. They can record that after Elon fights Zuckerberg

[JPhillips]

Yeah, Elon will back out, but I'm sure The Daily Show would love the opportunity. Regardless of what happens it would be a big ratings get.

[flere-imsaho]

:D

[Atocep]

The DHA 3 star general was forced into retirement today. She spoke out regarding the Dodge deferred retirement threats. She wasn't even given the opportunity to send out an email to staff. Everyone found out when her acting replacement sent an email out saying he's in charge now while they search for the permanent replacement.

She was scheduled to be the keynote speaker at DHITS (Defense Health IT symposium) next week. Budget cuts have forced DHA to not allow civilian staff to attend this year. So you're going to get a bunch of military people that are in their position for 2 years, at most, speaking to vendors and making long term decisions regarding health IT that they won't be around to even see get off the ground. This was one of the travel opportunities I mentioned turning down in the Trump thread. These aren't fun at all but are important for building contacts at other Military Treatment Facilities, seeing the future of health IT, and speaking to the decision makers at the DHA leadership level.

The DoD also got the 5 bullet points email from Hegseth today. Nothing screams efficiency like 6 emails explaining what's wanted, clarifying what's wanted, and then confirming the clarifications. I spent 3 hours of my day going over bullet points with my staff so that everyone was comfortable with what they're sending. If this becomes an ongoing thing I'm probably going to make a list of 40 or so canned bullet points that my staff can pull from and use in the future.

[Atocep]

Elon has also requested 20 GS-15s be added to OPM through July of next year. That's about 4 million in salary waste from our efficiency overlords. (For those that don't know, GS-15 is the highest the federal GS system goes and in the DC area would be about $170k per year. My boss, the CIO of our large hospital, isn't a GS-15. We actually don't have a GS-15 in our hospital).

The NSF is rehiring all fired probationary employees after the judge ruled they were illegally fired last week.

RIFs are starting now at some agencies. We're going to see more lawsuits that OPM is going to lose since they're being carried out similar to the probationary firings instead of following guidelines.

[Edward64]

The tracker jumped up to $105B saved.

Looking forward to the analysis/rebuttals by MSM and fact checkers

[Arles]

And how many staff reductions are being replaced with contractors? Twenty years ago my wife was a contractor for the SEC. She cost them more than a staff paralegal, but they could point to the reduction in staffing and call it a savings.
We have done the same with a few positions at my day job. With Obama care, it was a little trickier. Still, while the person makes a much higher hourly wage, the company saves between 40 and 60K (based on the salary) on not having to pay health/dental, social security, 401K match, reduced vacation/sick time, Life insurance, etc. So for many positions making that transition (even at a higher hourly rate) does save the company a decent amount of money.

[kingfc22]

The tracker jumped up to $105B saved.

Looking forward to the analysis/rebuttals by MSM and fact checkers

Funny that your natural instinct is to know the information they put out has a high likelihood of being incorrect but here you are still relaying the information as if it were true dollars saved.

[JPhillips]

We have done the same with a few positions at my day job. With Obama care, it was a little trickier. Still, while the person makes a much higher hourly wage, the company saves between 40 and 60K (based on the salary) on not having to pay health/dental, social security, 401K match, reduced vacation/sick time, Life insurance, etc. So for many positions making that transition (even at a higher hourly rate) does save the company a decent amount of money.

Even twenty years ago, my wife had better benefits through CACI than did her SEC colleague. Some of the problem in government is that politicians are happy to reward allies with expensive contracts. Hell, my wife even had pet insurance included in her benefits.

I do wonder how many contractors have been fired. I haven't heard anything about that.

[Atocep]

Even twenty years ago, my wife had better benefits through CACI than did her SEC colleague. Some of the problem in government is that politicians are happy to reward allies with expensive contracts. Hell, my wife even had pet insurance included in her benefits.

I do wonder how many contractors have been fired. I haven't heard anything about that.

The biggest waste I see is bad contracts that are bid out and then a senior officer retires and goes to work for that same company. There's rules against it, but there are ways around those rules that are exploited regularly.

These contracts and vendors exploiting the government and selling something that is overkill for what's needed or just doesn't suit the need are actual areas of waste.

[Edward64]

Funny that your natural instinct is to know the information they put out has a high likelihood of being incorrect but here you are still relaying the information as if it were true dollars saved.

Demonstrably false.

But I get it, this is a big thread and hard to keep track of stuff with 50 posts so far.

I do like the dashboard and the transparency it provides. We know there's been mistakes in some claims, and there's been challenges and corrections. But it does give the media & fact checkers something to verify and challenge; and this is good.
There no doubt there's issues with DOGE accounting. I've seen $6B and < $10B tossed around.

Someone needs to create a "doge-tracker-corrections.com" that parallels it and come up with the details on why the savings is valid or not.
DOGE will declare what they have found and saved. And that amount will be inaccurate.

However, MSM and fact checkers will verify DOGE claims (like they are now) and give us the accurate no. Right now, they say approx $6B out of $52B.

I want to know the accurate no.

[Atocep]

Agencies are taking back fired probationary workers, with back pay, after the judge ruled they were illegally fired since OPM doesn't have the authority to fire people and firings must meet certain guidelines.

As I've said, this is going to be the most expensive government efficiency program in US history by the end of it. The ongoing RIFs will be challenged as well since they're being done without regard to seniority, merit, etc.

OPM also updated the memo they're sending out to agencies clarifying that they (OPM) don't have the authority to force the agency to terminate anyone.

We had a town hall today. We found out that DHA has been targeted for firings but has kept them at the administrative HQ level in order to prevent any disruptions to patient care at the hospitals. Our hospital has labor attorneys on standby (they were in attendance at the town hall) and pledged to fight any terminations to the end.

It's funny, the Trump administration is creating the deep state resistance within the federal government that they claimed they were going after.

[Ksyrup]

I just saw the IRS is preparing to slash its workforce by 50%.

[flere-imsaho]

Edward's "just asking questions" folks.

[JPhillips]

There it is. Looking to outsource.

In a communication sent to SSA employees on Saturday, Acting Social Security Administrator Leland Dudek said employees should expect that the agency will "outsource non-essential functions to industry experts" as part of an effort to "revitalize SSA operations."

[Edward64]

Edward's "just asking questions" folks.

Definitely a good thing, otherwise one will just be remain a simpleton.

Ask questions; listen; read; consider both/all sides; don't attack first; don't be overly dramatic or whine; and sometimes just leave it as agree to disagree or just ignore.

My 2 cents.

[RainMaker]

There it is. Looking to outsource.

I wonder who will get these overpriced no-bid contracts?

[Edward64]

Good that there is some growing (?) pushback from GOP Congress.

Gist of the article is GOP Congress is okay with DOGE directionally but they want to be informed and the cuts/layoffs coordinated through them so they can review/influence DOGE. My guess is Trump doesn't want this to happen right now, he just wants to bulldoze through the process and not play traditional politics with the inevitable special interests from GOP members which will slow things down.

Access to this page has been denied (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5178899-musk-chaired-meeting-restricts-government/)
Republican senators told tech billionaire Elon Musk at a closed-door meeting Wednesday that his aggressive moves to shrink the federal government will need a vote on Capitol Hill, sending a clear message that he needs to respect Congress’s power of the purse.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who largely supports Musk’s mission, told him DOGE’s efforts to cut spending and reduce the federal workforce reductions won’t pass muster with the courts unless Congress codifies them by passing a spending rescission package.

“To make it real, to make it go beyond the moment of the day, it needs to come back in the form of a rescission package,” Paul said after the meeting, pointing to 5-4 decision by the Supreme Court on Wednesday morning rejecting the Trump administration’s argument that billions of dollars in foreign aid should remain frozen.

But then again ...

Paul and other Republican senators said Musk appeared open to the idea but didn’t seem to expect DOGE’s cuts and workforce reductions would need to come back to Congress for ultimate approval.

I'm forseeing more SCOTUS rulings before things settle down (or really blow up) one way or another.


And one reason for the timidity so far ...

While a number of GOP senators have complaints about Musk’s aggressive tactics and lack of collaboration with Congress, they are leery of confronting him directly, fearful he could pour tens of millions of dollars into backing Republican primary challengers next year.

Musk spent at least $288 million to help elect President Trump and other Republican candidates in 2024, and he warned House Republicans during a visit to Capitol Hill in December that he was keeping track of a “naughty list” of members who buck Trump’s agenda.

Musk vowed after Election Day that his PAC would “play a significant role in primaries” next year.

[Mota]

Shouldn't they be having these conversations with Amy Gleason?

[Edward64]

About 4 weeks late. Great news if really true vs a wink-wink-nod-nod.

Just a moment... (https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/06/trump-cabinet-musk-025093)
President Donald Trump convened his Cabinet in person on Thursday to deliver a message: You’re in charge of your departments, not Elon Musk.

According to two administration officials, Trump told top members of his administration that Musk was empowered to make recommendations to the departments but not to issue unilateral decisions on staffing and policy. Musk was also in the room.
Trump should just have told cabinet ... you and you, cut X% out of your budget, you cut Y% in 90 days. Don't care how you do it with headcount, projects, existing contracts etc. Let me know your plan and then you do it.

“As the Secretaries learn about, and understand, the people working for the various Departments, they can be very precise as to who will remain, and who will go,” he wrote. “We say the ‘scalpel’ rather than the ‘hatchet.’
It was more a chainsaw than a hatchet ...

Shouldn't they be having these conversations with Amy Gleason?
I'm guessing she wasn't in the room in this latest meeting

[GrantDawg]

Lol. https://www.wired.com/story/gsa-sale-cia-facility/

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Lathum]

About 4 weeks late. Great news if really true vs a wink-wink-nod-nod.

Just a moment... (https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/06/trump-cabinet-musk-025093)

Trump should just have told cabinet ... you and you, cut X% out of your budget, you cut Y% in 90 days. Don't care how you do it with headcount, projects, existing contracts etc. Let me know your plan and then you do it.


It was more a chainsaw than a hatchet ...


I'm guessing she wasn't in the room in this latest meeting

He then went on to say if you don’t Elon will. Just a fabulous self own of catching himself in his own lies.

[Ksyrup]

He doesn't know how to control "the weave." It's all just verbal diarrhea with him.

[Atocep]

Due to RTO, the VA doesn't have space for all of their providers, so therapists are conducting counseling sessions in open cubicles. Gonna be wild when the VA loses their joint commission accreditation.

[Atocep]

Michigan representative Tom Barrett held a phone in town hall where they pre-screened participants, then polled them on DOGE, and the result was 70/30 against. So much for paid activists.

[dubb93]

I saw someone call this the Tesla Chainsaw Massacre.

[RainMaker]

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2025/03/13/doge-tariffs-layoffs-treasury-data?utm_campaign=editorial&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social)

[Atocep]

Just a moment... (https://www.axios.com/2025/03/13/doge-tariffs-layoffs-treasury-data?utm_campaign=editorial&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social)

I'm very confident saying the impact of DOGE will be a net negative on spending. Nearly all of these contracts they're claiming to cancel are inflated numbers or misleading claims. Many are also just going to get rebid out to Trump cronies. Factor in the lawsuits and other costs that are accompanying DOGE and we're going to lose money on this efficiency project.

[Mota]

I'm very confident saying the impact of DOGE will be a net negative on spending. Nearly all of these contracts they're claiming to cancel are inflated numbers or misleading claims. Many are also just going to get rebid out to Trump cronies. Factor in the lawsuits and other costs that are accompanying DOGE and we're going to lose money on this efficiency project.

Having Elon Musk at your side 24/7 definitely isn't cheap. Any contracts awarded to any Musk company should be subtracted from the DOGE savings.

[Edward64]

There no doubt there's issues with DOGE accounting. I've seen $6B and < $10B tossed around.

Someone needs to create a "doge-tracker-corrections.com" that parallels it and come up with the details on why the savings is valid or not.

... and here it is.


That is why, today, we are launching the Musk Watch DOGE Tracker. The Musk Watch DOGE Tracker allows anyone to easily cut through the spin about DOGE and see how much savings can be verified. It also allows the public to go deeper and see what is being cut and who is being impacted. It will be updated weekly.

[url]https://doge.muskwatch.com/ (https://popular.info/p/introducing-the-musk-watch-doge-tracker)


Note: I do think headcount reduction is part of Doge but I don't see Doge calculating it on their website, so those "savings (or costs) analysis" is somewhere else.

[Edward64]

A note that may just be of interest only to me. Not an accountant, but laying it out there as a future reference point ...


The article talks about how it checks against Doge. One example stuck out that I don't agree with, meaning I agree with (or closer to) how Doge is doing the calculations.

Beautiful how they explain it ... (sorry, going to leave the image as is because I don't know how to make it smaller and it is important to see it visually)

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F189953d7-32dd-497f-be86-287d969d2bc4_1408x784.png

Their calculation
Musk Watch calculates the savings by taking the "Current Award Amount," and subtracting the "Obligated Amount." This results in a significantly lower estimation of savings. Here is an example of an EPA contract with Endyna Inc that was canceled by DOGE:

Doge calculation
DOGE takes the "Potential Award Amount" of $134 million and subtracts the "Obligated Amount" of $64.7 million and calculates a total savings of $69.3 million. Musk Watch substitutes the "Current Award Amount" — the actual value of the contract — and finds a more realistic savings of $5.4 million.

I don't know the definition of "potential award amount" but I equate it to "total budgeted amount" or "total planned amount to be spent". It may not have been formally approved, but that number was presented to someone and okayed as a target.

If this is correct, then it is better to use "potential award amount" to calculate savings.

[flere-imsaho]

This is because what DOGE is doing is a stupid person's idea of how you do a financial audit. I'm sure Musk's kiddies won't be looking at the costs incured by their layoffs and contract cancellations when they figure their final numbers, either.

[RainMaker]

I'm very confident saying the impact of DOGE will be a net negative on spending. Nearly all of these contracts they're claiming to cancel are inflated numbers or misleading claims. Many are also just going to get rebid out to Trump cronies. Factor in the lawsuits and other costs that are accompanying DOGE and we're going to lose money on this efficiency project.

Yeah, that's the part they don't care about. Like on paper, cutting a bunch of IRS workers saves you money on labor costs. But if those IRS workers were finding tax cheats, it ends up costing you much more money.

I've seen studies that show more employees and tax enforcement would create massive government savings.

[PilotMan]

So let's say they have managed to find and remove up to 150bn that they say they have at this point. That's roughly a $2 discount on a grocery bill of $100. They are selling that as an amazing contribution and proof of success and process. If I told you that you'd only pay 98% of the cost of something but you'd lose out on a whole slew of services and options, how could you feel warm and fuzzy about that? It's all in the way this is being sold. Thousands of unemployed and making things harder all around, while maintaining 98% of the cost? That's not winning in any respect.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, that's the part they don't care about. Like on paper, cutting a bunch of IRS workers saves you money on labor costs. But if those IRS workers were finding tax cheats, it ends up costing you much more money.

I've seen studies that show more employees and tax enforcement would create massive government savings.
Of course to DOGE, empowering tax cheats is a feature not a bug.

[Atocep]

DOGE is likely going to just declare anyone in the social security database older than 120 deceased. This should go well.

[Ghost Econ]

You'd think this story would be a massive scandal and a treason investigation... instead there's nothing.

Whistleblower details how DOGE may have taken sensitive NLRB data : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2025/04/15/nx-s1-5355896/doge-nlrb-elon-musk-spacex-security)

[Atocep]

Shockingly, it sounds like no one is doing anything with the 5 things emails now. Elon is losing interest in DOGE because his feelings got hurt.

[Passacaglia]

84K in the books...brilliant.

403 Forbidden (https://www.nctv17.org/news/doge-cuts-hit-napervilles-dupage-childrens-museum/amp/)



Federal cuts from the Department of Government Efficiency have hit home in Naperville at the DuPage Children’s Museum.

An expected $84,000 grant to the museum from the Institute of Museum and Library Services has been terminated.

The money was meant to fund expanding the museum’s Questioneers exhibit, based on the New York Times best-selling children’s book series of the same name, written by Naperville author Andrea Beaty.

[QuikSand]

So, this thread has started to settle in to the sediment at the bottom of the FOFC river, properly.

I realize that modern politics has rendered anything close to a consensus to be virtually impossible. But it does seem like the clear eyed take away from this exercise is: yes, there are some wasteful elements in various federal programs, but nowhere near the magnitude that was advertised or trumpeted along the way to the meager outcomes of this cost cutting effort.

Virtually every case of AHA! Was soon revealed to merely be a product of computer people, looking at data in a database, rather than at actual programs, and reaching incorrect conclusions about the elements they saw listed. There is probably a legitimate concern that the public sector continues to use antiquated systems like COBOL for important work, but that calls for a spending remedy to modernize, not a budget cut to eliminate.

Most of the actual cuts arising from this effort are effectively driven by ideology, rather than efficiency. Changing the government spending priorities as a matter of political ideology is completely fair game, though there is a legal question on the appropriate means to do so… It certainly seems that the power of the purse was deliberately vested in the Congress, rather than the executive branch, and the proper way to do this was by a rescission bill through Congress, rather than unconfirmed agent of the executive branch working unilaterally.

The strawman argument will likely be that liberals believe there is zero waste in government, and resist any reductions whatsoever. But, the essential Takeaway here has to be that there are not $2 trillion per year of cuts causing zero effect in the federal budget. You want to make cuts that deep, you virtually have to get into reducing entitlement programs, defense spending, and the other items that are generally off-limits for most politicians.

[albionmoonlight]

/co-sign

[Edward64]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Per the official site, it's officially $170B saved. Far cry from the initial $2T and then reduced $1T.

The "doge-corrections-tracker" in #72 above and link below says $69B of itemized cuts but only $16B of verified cuts.

https://doge.muskwatch.com/


Guessing we won't be getting our doge savings check now.

[flere-imsaho]

/co-sign

:+1:


The strawman argument will likely be that liberals believe there is zero waste in government, and resist any reductions whatsoever.

As a liberal, I 100% believe there's plenty of waste in government spending. As someone who has also worked in the private sector for 25 years, across multiple industries, I will tell anyone that private industry is no paragon when it comes to waste, either. Which is why I always find the "government wastes out money" argument so ridiculous, and the belief that if we applied "business knowledge" to government, we'd get more efficient even more ridiculous.

A number of good posters in this thread pointed out how you'd go about doing an actual good audit of federal government finances, and from there maybe have a rational discussion about spending and it's utility. But this exercise was so so far from that as to be risible not only in execution, but also in concept.

[Atocep]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Per the official site, it's officially $170B saved. Far cry from the initial $2T and then reduced $1T.

The "doge-corrections-tracker" in #72 above and link below says $69B of itemized cuts but only $16B of verified cuts.

https://doge.muskwatch.com/


Guessing we won't be getting our doge savings check now.


The White House has only requested around $9 billion in doge savings in the new budget. What the White House puts into the budget is going to end up being the real number saved. I will guarantee once this is all said and done the impact of doge will cost us well more than we "saved" though.

[Mota]

When I was working in a certain distribution business, we were asked to cut our costs year over year. We'd be digging into transportation contracts, minimum order increases, etc to try to have few orders but bigger ones. And we'd save less than 1%. It took months of work. Reporting. Meetings. It wasn't easy. You can't just storm in for a few days with a handful of 20 year olds and a few laptops and expect to cut trillions.

[thesloppy]

The White House has only requested around $9 billion in doge savings in the new budget. What the White House puts into the budget is going to end up being the real number saved. I will guarantee once this is all said and done the impact of doge will cost us well more than we "saved" though.


That's like less than a half a percent of the original $2 trillion target. What a bunch of clowns.

[RainMaker]

The only good thing that came out of DOGE was being able to spot the absolute dumbest human beings. Still baffling how people fell for that scam.

[thesloppy]

With all the associated lawsuits and payouts we'll probably end up paying more taxes in order to cut off aid and kill kids in Africa...but I guess that's just a bonus to Elon, after he's gutted every office that was investigating him or his businesses. The 'savings' were ridiculously minimal for the collective public, but Elon accomplished a lot for himself.

[RainMaker]

Gutting the IRS will cost them more than any savings would come close to.

It was always a scam to give the mirage of tackling debt so they could pass a tax cut for the wealthiest people. Same with the "tariffs will cover our debt" nonsense too. Again, only the dumbest people fell for this.

[PilotMan]

The White House has only requested around $9 billion in doge savings in the new budget. What the White House puts into the budget is going to end up being the real number saved. I will guarantee once this is all said and done the impact of doge will cost us well more than we "saved" though.




The value alone of the information and process that Musk got his hooks into though has to be in the multiples of billions if not trillion. He will gain in magnitudes going forward.

[flere-imsaho]

The only good thing that came out of DOGE was being able to spot the absolute dumbest human beings. Still baffling how people fell for that scam.

Have you met many of your fellow Americans?

The value alone of the information and process that Musk got his hooks into though has to be in the multiples of billions if not trillion. He will gain in magnitudes going forward.

Of all the people who should be locked up and interrogated....

[Atocep]

[2025-07-31] The $21.7 Billion Blunder: New PSI Report Reveals... (https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/07/31/2025/the-217-billion-blunder-new-psi-report-reveals-billions-in-taxpayer-dollars-squandered-by-doge)

The direct impact I'm seeing is the cost of supporting return to work plus refilling positions of those that took the deferred resignation. We've had multiple buildings we were set to give up this year that we had to keep to create space for return to work.

We've also lost our ability to do bulk printing internally because of DOGE offered VERA retirements (those positions are gone for good). We're now sending bulk print requests outside the organization for nearly twice the cost and a longer wait. Our facilities department is contracting a lot of their work out because of downsizing as well.

Then I'm seeing potions refilled because they were needed after deferred resignations. So we're paying a person that's no longer here, plus paying to repost and fill a position, and then pay someone with less experience to do the same job.

[RainMaker]

Who'd have thought that hiring some 22 year olds who's sole qualification is being in Peter Thiel's harem may not have known what they were doing?

[Atocep]

Who'd have thought that hiring some 22 year olds who's sole qualification is being in Peter Thiel's harem may not have known what they were doing?

Since we're part of the DoD we weren't even DOGE targets. I can't imagine how bad it is at places like the VA or IRS.

[flere-imsaho]

We know some folks at EPA and it's really, really, really bad.

[Ghost Econ]

Who'd have thought that hiring some 22 year olds who's sole qualification is being in Peter Thiel's harem may not have known what they were doing?

The person who started this thread.

[kingfc22]

HAHAH

[RainMaker]

lol, fair enough

[Lathum]

The person who started this thread.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Edward64]

The person who started this thread.
Nice one

HAHAH
Still waiting ... (learn how to read yet?)

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - DOGE progress discussion (https://osftw.com/fofc/fofc/showpost.php?p=3458992&postcount=53)

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Back from your vacation already? Too bad, it was nice. You didn't make any overweight women cry did you?

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - DOGE progress discussion (https://osftw.com/fofc/fofc/showpost.php?p=3458446&postcount=32)
Not a fan of the person assigned to "trim the fat" looking like she never orders the salad.
These people deserve to be mocked about everything and anything. Someone who is charged with finding excess who clearly doesn’t grasp the concept of excess should be mocked. The right certainly has no issues mocking people’s appearances so neither will I. The time for being nice is over.
Larry and I don't agree on much, but this we agree on


Someone who is charged with finding excess who clearly doesn’t grasp the concept of excess should be mocked.
Maybe one of the dumbest things ever written on this board. The rest of your post is just morally bankrupt justification for atrocious behavior.

[Lathum]

Man- I really do live rent free in your head...

[Edward64]

As I don't attack first nor do I respond to your posts that don't reference me, I don't even think about you until your occasional, under-the-influence jibes.

[Lathum]

bro I laughed at a joke, get over it.

You wouldn't last a day in Jersey.

[Edward64]

bro I laughed at a joke, get over it.

You wouldn't last a day in Jersey.

I'm sure there are plenty of NJ Jews that will help me out.

[flere-imsaho]

As predicted by several people in this thread: inc.com (https://www.inc.com/chris-morris/doge-is-accused-of-wasting-21-7-billion-in-just-6-months/91221713)

Blumenthal and the members of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations allege that in just six months, DOGE generated at least $21.7 billion in waste across the government, because of costs associated with layoffs, lost interest, and wasted goods, despite its charter to reduce wasteful spending.

[flere-imsaho]

dola - CPB's annual budget (the vast majority of which went to rural services) was $0.5B.

Let me see if I can math this. The money DOGE wasted could have funded the CPB for 42 years.

[Atocep]

dola - CPB's annual budget (the vast majority of which went to rural services) was $0.5B.

Let me see if I can math this. The money DOGE wasted could have funded the CPB for 42 years.

And people think it was just used for leftist politics. The reality is the money was mostly used toward funding televised state high school sports, emergency alerts, and local news for rural communities.

Rural communities continue to feel the brunt of Trump's agenda.

[RainMaker]

It is kind of wild when you look at all these little quality of life things that have been removed. And it's not like we are getting a tax cut or cutting the deficit. It's just so some billio Aires can launder more money to themselves.

[Young Drachma]

oh this thread is wild

[Ghost Econ]

So DOGE has been shut down and an additional 2 trillion has been added to the national debt.

I think Edward would have considered that a smashing success.

[Ksyrup]

Don't forget all of the federal brain drain and international deaths they accomplished!

[JPhillips]

They did manage to steal all the personal data held by the government.

[Lathum]

Don't forget all of the federal brain drain and international deaths they accomplished!

I heard a story that by elimination USAID it forced these countries to pull money from other areas, including education and counter terrorism which has led to an explosion of ISIS in Africa. I'm sure that will end well for us.

[RainMaker]

ISIS is our ally now in the region.

[Atocep]

So DOGE has been shut down and an additional 2 trillion has been added to the national debt.

I think Edward would have considered that a smashing success.

The fact that it has officially ended 8 months early and with no fanfare or really even a mention shows how successful the administration sees it. A complete failure in every way that assuredly cost us far more than any savings.

But hey, some early 20s kids got GS-15 pay for awhile and one of them walked away with every single one our social security numbers and PII.

[RainMaker]

I think stealing the data was probably the goal of the whole thing. That and gutting regulators so that Elon could continue to funnel taxpayer money into his pockets.

[NobodyHere]

I wish DOGE was taken a little bit more seriously.

[Mota]

A bunch of 20 year olds with laptops using AI to determine everything to cut in an entire department within 2 days.
I don't think any sane person would think that this is the best way to determine government efficiency.
I really think government is probably one of the least efficient entities, regardless of the country. But determining what to cut would probably be best done by someone that actually has experience in that department, and be done over a year and not just a couple of days.

[dubb93]

I really think government is probably one of the least efficient entities, regardless of the country.

I counter this idea with the thought that so did DOGE.

[flere-imsaho]

People don't realize how much inefficiency there is at most Fortune 500 companies, especially ones considered too big to fail. I've been there (heck, I'm at one now). The waste is staggering.

The difference is that the accounting is better, and most of that waste gets re-classified in a way that makes it seem good. The government doesn't do that.

[Atocep]

As I've said many times, bullshit contracts are were most of the federal waste is. It's usually covered up better than this, but this administration is both incompetent and doesn't care.

Lawmakers call for probe of how firm tied to Kristi Noem got piece of $220M DHS ad contracts - Government Executive (https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2025/11/lawmakers-call-probe-how-firm-tied-kristi-noem-got-piece-220m-dhs-ad-contracts/409786/?oref=ge-featured-river-secondary)

[Atocep]

If you haven't been following the DOGE depositions, they have been such a disaster the judge had them pulled from public view.

Some highlights:

In one widely circulated clip, Mr. Fox is asked whether he agreed with ChatGPT’s flagging of a documentary about Jewish women who were slave laborers in the Holocaust.

“It’s a Jewish — specifically focused on Jewish culture and amplifying the marginalized voices of the females in that culture,” Mr. Fox explains. “It’s inherently related to D.E.I. for that reason.”

The memorandum also states that Fox ran hundreds of grant descriptions through ChatGPT, asking the system: “Does the following relate at all to DEI?”

Fox testified that he did not define what “DEI” meant for the system and did not know how the model interpreted the term, according to the court record.

"You don't regret that people might have lost important income ... to support their lives?" an attorney asked Cavanaugh about the grant cancellations.

"No. I think it was more important to reduce the federal deficit from $2 trillion to close to zero," Cavanaugh said.

"Did you reduce the federal deficit?" the attorney asked.

"No, we didn't," Cavanaugh said.

[Lathum]

I've seen the guy from the Jewish clip and it is as cringe as it gets. Doesn't help that he is from central casting for a Charlottesville march.

[miami_fan]

If you haven't been following the DOGE depositions, they have been such a disaster the judge had them pulled from public view.

Some highlights:

Give them credit for honesty?