Blah blah blah.

Crying poor poor pitiful does nothing to address realistic issues such as driver behavior that leads to searches.

Gosh, those oh-so-well-mannered folks in Ferguson would NEVER do anything remotely suspicious. Oh not, not them. Paragons of virtue, simply picked on for no reason. Poor poor pitiful them.

What a steaming load of horseshit.

How about this idea: instead of blaming everything & everyone under the sun & never accepting any personal responsibilty, a little more attention be focused on not raising worse than useless p.o.s. thugs that steal cigars from convenience stores. Or driving on a suspended licenses for that matter. Or is that too much to ask too?

Instead, far more can be accomplished I'm sure by feeding the victimization culture. That's worked well for decades after all.

All this handwringing, it's becoming comical more than anything else. Carry on.

I do wonder how many cops have been hired in that period, how many applications there were, and what the makeup of those applications was.

Has anyone mentioned the Jennings PD? Apparently they were disbanded and rebuilt in 2011 due to racial tensions (and...Wilson was part of that force).

ETA: Worth noting that the rebuilt department is still white, but hasn't yet had the same issues. The key seems to be treating the community as a partner, rather than an adversary.

This is interesting. Evidently there is no centralized record keeping of officer involved shootings.

What I've Learned from Two Years Collecting Data on Police Killings

The village idiots latched onto the same pseudointelligent talking point which is actually a bunch of meaningless word salad.

What strategy, which has apparently accomplished so much, are you even referring to? It surely can't be nonviolent protest given the paramilitary response that's received in Ferguson. What else could it be - sit around and wait until the 2060s for things to improve because every 100 years an Emancipation Proclamation or a Civil Rights Act comes along?

I'm going to guess by your tone that this isn't the strategy currently being employed.

Get out and vote. Get other people out to vote. Convince people to vote for the people you want in power. That's how you get leadership in your town that you want and that represent the things you want.

As for what can be done, I'd start with addressing some of the problems in the community. The high crime levels, lack of Fathers involvement, lack of education, and so on. And when someone does bring that up not calling them an Uncle Tom if they're black or racist if they're white. That would go a lot farther in improving the situation over waiting for white people to wave a magic wand and do whatever it is you think they have the mystical power to do.

I see a lot of complaining and excuses out there. I see almost no solutions. I think sitting around and waiting gets people nowhere. But that's sort of been the approach for awhile now.

Woman and children accidentally pulled over at gunpoint by Forney, Texas police | abc13.com


Well, they got the black part right at least!

Also lolworthy:

Autopsy report: Victor White III shot in the chest, not back | KATC.com | Acadiana-Lafayette, Louisiana


Totally believable.

Shot himself in the back huh... reminded me of:

Well, there's your math motherfucker - what's your chikenshit racist excuse now?

Not sure what part you find meaningless?

Not constantly crying "oh it's everybody else's fault" at every corner, every turn, every time the sun rises and every time the sun sets?

No no, it can't be about behavior. Or culture. Nope, couldn't be.
Everything wrong in the world is whitey's fault after all.


LMAO. Yep. Nothing violent about what happened there, nope. Except for what whitey did of course ... because everything wrong in the world is whitey's fault after all.

Over the top. A week.

So... has there been any updates on the investigation?

White people don't care. Black people do care. Check back in 500 years.

Sadly, my only real contribution to this thread is to say that I think Loaded Weapon is an underrated parody movie

SI

I had the first boxing at WAY under 19 pages.

Every major public official in Missouri has commented on the case. The Governor has almost demanded the officer be arrested. There are 40 FBI agents working it, the President has spoken on it, and the AG for the United States flew out to the town to speak to people and oversee the investigation.

So this idea that no one cares is ridiculous. I wish the 9 year old who was shot multiple times and died in his backyard last weekend in Chicago got a tenth of the resources this death is.

Last I heard is that the police released an almost entirely redacted report on the shooting.

Police Reports Shed Little Light on Ferguson Shooting - WSJ

The funniest/saddest part about that is that there has been a federal law on the books for 20 years ordering the Atty General to collect this data. It's just been ignored.

Oh, it's been a fun few days.

This happened a couple of days ago: At one point tonight, Michael Brown protesters chanted "hands up, don't shoot!" Darren Wilson supporters responded: "Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!" (Wesley Lowery reporting)

Bunch of new revelations about the kind of people one the various police forces around there. I won't post the various links, but they are interesting to see how officers who have been found guilty of misconduct in one jurisdiction don't get prosecuted and then get hired in a nearby jurisdiction. Great system there...more evidence of the Thin Blue Line.

The NYT really put their foot in it again on this case (just like them reporting that all shots came from the front): David D. on Twitter: Here's the 3rd graf from the NYT article on Mike Brown. and the 3rd graf from the RS article on the Boston bomber. http://t.co/BQ5wR6JQT5

Nothing like humanizing a mass murderer while vilifying the guy shot 6 times!

And not directly related, we have the Victor White saga. Coroner rules Victor White death suicide - KLFY News 10 You know, the guy who managed to shoot himself in the front of his chest with his hands handcuffed behind his back in the back of a squad car after being arrested and searched. Yeah, that happened but of course the system ruled he committed suicide so there's nothing to see here, move along.

Dramatic. Sad. Lots of words...but this sentence stood out...


I'll reserve judgment until this is complete and they can comment.

:banghead:

I truly believe racism is alive and real. I cannot believe people out there believe this story. How is that even possible?

It absolutely is alive and real. It also absolutely goes both ways.

And it's worldwide.

Well, since it happened in March and we are now in September and the report finally came out, maybe they can comment within the year or something. Or I guess whenever they are ready.

NEW :: Audio on CNN right now shows Darren Wilson shot at an unarmed Mike Brown 11 times. 5 from behind. 6 face to face.

— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) August 26, 2014

I just hope Wilson's broken eye socket heals up okay.

Oh right.

Racism exists but every time a white person wrongs a black person (or vice versa), it doesn't mean it's because they are racist. I think cops would cover up their fuck-ups regardless of the race of the person.

Here is the segment.

CNN Plays Alleged Recording of Michael Brown Shooting

Sounds like 11 shots. You can't tell from the audio whether it was in the front or back though.

Yeah - where are they getting the front/back thing from?

I don't think CNN reported the front/back thing in the audio. Tweet seems like it's from an internet social justice crusader trying to add his thoughts in on it.

Sounds like a series of about six shots. Then about a two second pause, then another 5 shots or so.

Yeah I don't know how they would determine back versus front. I think when the audio first aired on CNN late last night there may have just been some initial speculation that didn't stick.

It may go both ways, but it's a little different when one side holds power over the other, and when being a member of one group is good enough to get you arrested, because you simply are a member of that group.

TV Producer In Beverly Hills For Pre-Emmys Event Arrested For Being Tall, Bald And Black: LAist




(longer story and his full FB writeup at the h/t link)

:+1:

What is the threshold percentage of any group that is considered bad before it becomes acceptable to consider the whole group bad?

Personally, I don't see how is this not manslaughter and I fear the consequences if not charged as such. But I also consider the shooting of that 11 year old girl as well as the 9 year old this past weekend as manslaughter as well. You talk about a group with the power lethally preying upon innocents but I would also include the violent gangs as well with their black market weaponries.

When will black people talk about their own communities?

Al Sharpton at the funeralof Michael Brown:

To answer that question is to be prepared to hear tired and rehashed arguments. In my own personal life I have spoken against gang violence and this "hood" way of life. I have seen first hand what happens when someone tries to keep it hood.

I wish I could say the problem is as simple as tell them to stop acting like animals and maybe white society will accept them and be more sympathetic to their plights. However, a close analysis of the black situation produces questions that need answers. For example, there is a tremendous amount of illegal assault rifles in the ghettos of America and my question is this: How do these poor people get access to these assault rifles?

Another question is if cocaine or marijuana is not predominantly produced in the ghetto how do these products happen to find their way into the hands of these poor people? Last time I checked I have never seen fields of coco plants or weeds in the ghetto.

Another question I have is why do some many black children have behavioral issues. Are those issues a result of their fathers not being home or is it something genetic? Why is it that I was able to go to law school while my brother went to jail?

I am rambling but the point is there is no simple question. My sincere hope is to one day be able to give to my community the opportunity to get an education by offering to pay kids to go to trade school.

I digress.

I also want to add that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are part of the problem as well. They do not care about the black community because if they did they would be promoting the building of a black community.

Black people (poor or rich) do not shop at black owned businesses unlike other groups of people in this country (i.e. the Chinese or Jewish people).

If that's what you're taught and with confirmation bias, I would say that number is 0%.

Well, I'd say a suburbanite, in a nice home, would be less likely to jeopardize their entire lives for the quick money of drug dealing (as with all things, there are certainly exceptions). Who's the ideal candidate for drug dealing? The person who has "no future", no education and therefore would have no problem jeopardizing "nothing" for the quick money. Therefore, the drugs naturally funnel their way to those neighborhoods.

Assault rifles - are you sure it's the poor that have them, or is it the drug dealer who has access to the cash? I have no idea, personally, but you would think logically, if you're poor and can barely afford food/housing, why on earth would you be buying an assault rifle?

I have my own opinion on Dads and their impact on society - I think their importance has been minimized, but I think both sexes bring characteristics to the table that form a normal, healthy individual (again, the caveat that there are both bad fathers and mothers who probably do potentially more harm by being in the picture).

I think having a father in their life (provided he is not a dumbass) will go along way to mitigating some of these issues.

I think the best practical thing the black community can do to improve this issue is to setup as many black college scholarships as possible. If you are an African American and have made a bunch of money, that should be your number one goal when it comes to donations. The more kids go to college = the more stable black families who live in the suburbs = the less hassle by cops in that area. If the "expected" black rate in a nice area goes from 10-15% to 30-35%, there will be less and less of a reason to profile. Then, as time passes, cops will be replaced by more open minded people (including the kids of those minorities that moved in).

To achieve this, you have so many minority academic scholarships to college for major inner city areas that if you can get a good GPA, you can get one. I'm sure the right would hem and haw about how unfair that is and how their white kid has a 3.5 GPA and didn't get a scholarship but a black kid with a 3.0 GPA did, but you have to look at the bigger picture. A program like this on a grand scale could finally tip the scales to allow more opportunity for minorities and more minorities leaving the ghetto to the point to where may even some "ghetto" areas end up getting a facelift because there just aren't enough lower income people left to justify it. Now, that's not going to happen to Detroit, Chicago or St. Louis overnight, but if you are a high school kid and you know if you can just pull a 3.0-3.5 GPA - you have a great chance at a scholarship. I think suddenly college becomes a more realistic dream and some kids/families will push it more. When you are in a single parent home with a mom that works two jobs to provide food and clothes, $20K a year in college costs is a pipe dream - even with some access to student loans.

well technically, in order to have confirmation bias, you'd at least need >0%

I think I might kill someone if I read another article about this shooting that says "a friend of Wilson's said that Brown charged at him" before the shooting. There were no friends of Wilson's at the shooting site. Citing this is trying to put a pro-police spin on any article. CNN and Faux are both horrible about weaving fake "facts" into articles. :banghead:

I think what Georgia has found with the Hope scholarship is that just giving kids access to college isn't enough. They have to be able to handle college level material, and too many of our schools aren't doing a good enough job of preparing them.

True!

Around 70 percent fail to maintain their eligibility.

The biggest impact of HOPE has been the rapid escalation of tuition around the state.

It's a popular boondoggle but it's done more harm than good afaic.

The Pitfalls of HOPE | The John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy

The problem is a lot of these kids have no business being in college. They are not prepared emotionally or academically to be successful in college. I think a better solution is to give scholarships so kids can go to trade school and learn a skill.

The more of those kids with skills the better opportunity they have to find work whether in their hometown or somewhere else.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I posted as a way to illustrate yet again that there's plenty of discussion about violence in black neighborhoods, but the media doesn't cover it and some people don't want to acknowledge it.

I am and have been a strong advocate of vocational training, including apprenticeship and internship.

Expanding on what mr. Noop alluded to, I think the notion of mentorship is and will be especially critical, particularly to millennials. It has to be the saying you have to have a father but even a father figure can work wonders.

Another thought was something that struck me from ken burns Baseball. At one time, the Negro League was the largest African American business in the country (perhaps along with funeral services). They had to do it because of segregation but today, black businesses can take on the role of mentoring and uplifting a community as they had in the past. Maybe it won't be a profit center but they can pay long term dividends.

Sometimes I wish I never went to law school and decided to learn to fix A/Cs or something. I think by giving someone a skill it allows them to earn a living.

I think there is a bigger deeper issue at play, that I have witnessed. I'm not sure the correct "term" for it, but there is cultural pressure in some communities NOT to succeed. That y going to college you are being a sell out, not "real" or some other ridiculous terminology. The sad truth is there is a segment of the black community (notice I said segment, not all) that if the change you suggest above was implemented instead of striving for a 3.0 would actually make sure they didnt do good enough to qualify for it.

We have to eliminate the "too cool for school" mentality. We have to celebrate the successes of a black man who succeeds through "white" channels and not tear him down, call him an 'uncle tom', a sell out a traitor etc.

Of course by "we" I really mean the minority community has to encourage it to other young minorities.

I am struck by the relative rapid assimilation of Asian Americans into more widespread "Corporate America" culture, than is often present in the African American community. Go back and look at WW2 and we will find some pretty horific treatment of Asian Americans, in some aspects worse than African Americans faced. That was some 90 years after the Civil War.

Today, in my lines of business, it is much more common for me to encounter a minority owned business owned by an Asian American than by an African American. I believe a large reason for that is that the Asian American coomunity embraced the education system and rewarded, encouraged and demanded excellence there, by and large, of their children.

Now the hows and why of how to do that?
Thats beyond my level.


And this is a fantastic point. true for all races. I have a neighbor who while a good guy simply was never college material. His parents were old south money and forced im to go to college. He assisted the suicide of his college career by rocking a .75 GPA for his freshman year. Shamed the family. Blah Blah Blah. Went to tech school learned HVAC, got certified worked for a guy for a few years and slowly went out on his own. He has done very well for himself and now is back welcomed into the family. More importantly he owns is hown business, employs a dozen people or so. Want to make a huge difference in "rougher communities"? Have a few of the neighborhood alums start their own business, employ the next generation. Show them another way. Show them a way to success that doesnt involve living outside the law.

Anyone with a skilled trade will never be out of work. Again it coms from my background and what I do, but I know a doen or more electricians, plumbers, HVAC guys, painters etc. That really arent that far above the law themselves. Cant hold a full tiem job becuase they cant pass a drug test consistently etc. But these people keep a middle class lifestyle up because they ahve a skill that can always be used. Everyone from the bottom to the elite have toilets that need repair, wiring that needs repair, a/c units that need repair, etc. And if you have that skill set, that trade, you are never unemployable.

I tell my son this all the time. I could lose everything I have tomorrow, ut I still have my electrical tools and my license. I guarantee you that if I can get a ride to Home Depot or Lowe's I can stand around and find work in an hour.

A lot of talk is made about teaching kids to be Drs and Lawyers, engineers and accountants. Many lower income kids dont know any of those people. they dont know how to relate. But they know a mechanic. They know a plumber. At a bare minimum they can see WHY you need A/C people, why you need a mechanic...many (myself included until my mid 20s) couldnt see why anyone needed a lawyer or an accountant.

Anyway gotta go back to work...but great great point and post by Noop.

I agree with trade schools, community colleges and 4-year universities. I mean, the kid still has to get accepted. it's not like I'm advocating for a kid with 900 SAT scores and a 2.0 GPA get a full ride to Harvard. I just think that any kid in an inner city who applies himself and gets good enough grades and shows interest in a trade school/cc/university should have an easier path to make that happen. I still think the standards of acceptance should be the same, but there are many kids who could excel in post-HS learning but don't really have/know the path to make that happen.

Mistrust of academic achievement isn't limited to blacks. My wife has been told by her aunts that she's, "gettin above her raisin" by getting a graduate degree.

I agree. If you look at who spends the most money on lottery tickets, the lottery/Hope scholarship is a giant transfer of wealth from the poor to the upper and middle classes.

The lottery bothers me not one whit.

But the Hope has turned out to be nothing more than a cash cow for the university system, packing classrooms with "students" who have little to no business being on a college campus.

edit to add: It's part of a larger problem of course, the whole "you simply must go to college" fallacy.

I have witnessed the same thing as JPhillips when I lived and worked in the South. Advanced high school coursework were for those too "hifalutin", let alone college. I don't know if it's going to get better when not only is there a pervasive too cool for school attitude but falling even further behind with the influx of Asians and Hispanics.

The Investigators: Dashcam video clears NJ man; Cops now indicted | 7online.com

This guy got lucky in that there was a 2nd tape. If not, he goes to jail for at least 10 years because of hyper-aggressive, wanna-be-Rambo cops. Unfortunately, all too often there's only one tape that gets "edited" or ends up vanishing.

Damn did I miss Jon Stewart.

August 26, 2014 - David Rose - The Daily Show - Full Episode | Comedy Central

Who was the news channel that had friggin' Mark Fuhrman talking about race? What, the Grand Wizard of the KKK wasn't available?

"Stop trying to resist arrest. Stop trying to take my gun."

"Why are you trying to take my fucking gun? GET OFF MY GUN."

It's like...it's like the cops just throw this shit out as standard boilerplate language to get a free pass to basically do whatever the hell they want. "Well, he was resisting or going for a gun, so all bets are off and we can beat the shit out of and/or shoot."

And of course, internal affairs initially found no wrongdoing.

Absolute fuckery. And you wonder why blacks distrust cops.

Well, I don't wonder but I'm assuming that was a plural "you" and not a singular. It reminds me of this and the cops in this case are Jimbo and Ned.

Yeah, royal "you" there.

Scary to think what would happen to that poor guy if there weren't cameras.

All cops should be wearing cameras and all cars should be equipped with cameras. End of story.

And apparently this happened - a K9 unit officer took his dog (or let his dog) pee on the Michael Brown memorial the day after the shooting.

Ferguson: Police dog urinated on Michael Brown memorial.

---

Subby has it right. "Scary" is the right word.

Scary is the reality. It's fear that virtually every person of color feels when dealing with police at any level, in any city, no matter who you are or what you do. It doesn't matter if you're a famous athlete or PhD in Rocket Science or a working stiff trying to go home. You might be telling your children all of the rules they have to know and follow when dealing with Police; but you know on the inside that given the wrong cops, NONE OF IT WILL MATTER. It won't matter how well you comply or how little you resist. Being black in America means that something like this can happen to you and no one will believe you weren't at fault. Your life can be just taken from you, either literally or figuratively and there is nothing you can do to stop it. The lives of your children, already treated with short worth, can be ripped from them and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

You might get lucky if there is a dashcam that may or may not be admitted in as evidence. But you know that eyewitnesses won't matter, especially if they're black too. Their word doesn't count for shit. If something goes down you just pray to GOD that you escape that sword of Damocles one more time or that some kind-hearted soul around you is recording the thing on video. You get to carry this around with you all day, every single time you deal with the police. Grow up with that as you try to live a normal life. Try to not react when people tell you that you're just playing the race card, or that you shouldn't hate or despair, or that Cops need protection too, or that the shooting (they won't use the term murder) was bad but the looting is just as bad or worse because it wasn't somehow justified like gunning down an unarmed man.

I can't imagine what it might have been before there were cameras.

Every cop should have a dash cam and body cam. It's crazy thqt they are better outfitted than the Marines but can't afford a $400 camera.

This just out:

MILFORD Conn. (Reuters) - A U.S. federal appeals court has ruled that Connecticut police cannot claim immunity to quash lawsuits seeking millions of dollars in damages from a botched 2008 raid by a SWAT team that severely injured a homeowner and killed his friend.

U.S. court will not block lawsuits over Connecticut SWAT raid - Yahoo News

My city (of about 500,000) will require police officers to wear cameras starting in October.

Not really the least bit surprising to see an appeals court screw up another ruling. That's kinda par for the course for federal appeals lately.

Why is it a bad decision?

The idea of putting more people in four year universities sounds good in theory, but all it does is render an undergraduate degree even less valuable than it already is (as well as soak up resources). For years now, I've had the strong conviction that we need to emphasize technical education and trade schools much more strongly, rather than push people along this fallacious path of the mythical bachelors, and even graduate degree leading to upward social and financial mobility (Witness the ABA specifically telling students not to go to law school, certain departments telling potential PhD students to strongly consider other career paths, more and more people commenting on the comparative worthlessness of the MBA, etc.)

And I think that's starting to happen. Anecdotal evidence among some of my circles sees a lot of people with bachelors (and in my case masters) degrees going back to school for a vocational-oriented degree. Most of them are at community colleges; a few are at in-state four years. A lot of cases it's nursing or some other medical/healthcare field. Finance-related seems to be the second most popular. And at least for the healthcare types, it's netted people who really didn't have the right set of characteristics to make it a four year college comparatively well-paying jobs with considerable job security.

I am also - even with subjects commonly taught at University I think a simple 'practical' course is often more helpful than a degree.

It might surprise a few of you to know that I have no degree at all, I have been to university but after starting on a Honors degree in Maths/Business transferred onto a more vocational Software Engineering course which provided me with enough of a grounding to get a career as a developer.

*Higher National Diploma (HND) - its a 2 year course at English universities, we always used to say it stood for "Have No Degree" ;)

Because Jon feels that police are well within their rights to throw grenades and shoot unarmed people over a line of coke as reported by a credible stripper. Duh, it's redneck justice.

A good faith (as far as I can tell that wasn't being questioned) decision being protected is essential for the operation of law enforcement.

That a court would criticize entering in this manner under those circumstances is an abomination, and speaks much about the low amount of wisdom or even character present on federal benches today.

I'll pass over the part about how much good a few flashbangs into some chambers might do this country. Wouldn't want pleasant hyperbole being misconstrued as either a threat nor advocacy.

Really sad situation here. I've become friends with many of the Ghost Hunters crew members since their visit to the winery. Several of them knew this guy from previous shows. Some of them had previously worked the Cops show and are obviously shook up by the incident.

‘Cops’ Crew Member Bryce Dion Dies After Being Shot During Robbery Standoff | Deadline

Maybe you should read the damn article before commenting or is that too much to ask? At least two officers questioned the SWAT decision before it happened. Also, qualified immunity isn't a blank check like you seem to think it is. It doesn't protect people from making bad decisions that violate people's rights that any reasonable person would have known. Good faith has nothing to do about it and public officials need to be held accountable for their actions.

It's incredible how variable your logic is. You want to hold politicians accountable for every little thing, but cops and the military get carte blanche in your book to go kill everyone they want without repercussions. You want to do good for this country? Leave it. You're a relic of a bigoted, entitled and fearful class of people mostly long gone and best forgotten.

It's not like police departments haven't manufactured evidence to support a no-knock warrant either.

A no-knock SWAT raid greatly increases the danger not only to the occupants of the house, but also to the police officers on the raid. I don't think it's too much to ask that it be considered the option of last resort. The guys in this house weren't armed or violent. They could have been arrested somewhere else and the search warrant executed at no risk.

I think it speaks to the court's opinion regarding the low amount of wisdom or even character of some law enforcement agencies today.

(ETA: Also, isn't this the point of the three-headed, checks-and-balances system? Law enforcement is not above reproach, and it is not above the law. If they appear to be getting a little out of hand, they should be reined in.)

Having said that, I have become very dismayed with my one experience with vocational (for-profit) schools. My stepson went to IntelliTec with no job prospects and no recruiting whatsoever - after paying them $25k. I think I fell for their placement pitch which was vastly overstated.

As an aside, who reigns in judges?

I mean, federal judges don't go before the voters so we're out of the loop. Congress can't even control itself. Executive is worse than useless at times.

With drug suspects that's a hell of an assumption to make afaic.

I was watching that "The First 48" crime show, and while coming after a suspected robbery/homicide a no-knock SWAT raid busted down the door of the wrong house - the suspect and his family had been evicted a month prior, and an entirely different family was living there. A film crew was following that SWAT team, can only imagine what might have happened otherwise.

Yeah, you do have some points here. Though we're probably better off with these all fighting each other than ganging up on us.

This. The for-profit tech colleges are often just a scam to get tuition/student loan money. Retention, graduation and employment numbers for a lot of these schools are terrible.

For those that continue to insist that we don't have an issue in this country




http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/20...g-public-space

What are my rights if the police approach me? - WORLD Law Direct

Thats a disgusting video.
And why I further support "never talk to police"...and before someone chimes in and says "Duder could have handled it better and avoided the outcome" sure he could have. Thats not the point. He should not have had to.

Yep.

It's not an assumption. It says in the article that no guns were found.

It's interesting seeing the contrasting responses from Dutch and you, who most people would lump in on the same side of the political spectrum.

I fall on your side on this one.

Of course the problem is that white people can generally (some exceptions such as your story notwithstanding) get away with not talking to the police and avoid having excessive force used on them. It seems a lot more likely (and no I don't have statistics to back this up - I am at work after all) that when minorities (especially blacks) get into these situations the use of force escalates quickly & far out of proportion to what's going on.

Here you don't even have a guy breaking the law - he's just sitting on a bench in what looks like an indoor mall (?). Pretty fucking sickening.

DT, all I did was copy and paste what some lawyers posted on their web-site on how to handle police approaching you.

The dude in the video absolutely could've handled it differently and better. If he was truly just there to pick up his kids, he was 100% grade A moron for handling it the way he did. Remember, ignorance of the law isn't a defense. I'm sure there have been specific cases that have covered these scenarios in the court of law and the law has won this exact scenario. A cop has a right to question a suspect on the grounds of public safety. And that includes asking the suspects name.

A couple of questions for you DT.

1. Why do you suspect he had a camera on himself recording at this specific time?
2. What was he doing that was suspicious enough for the cops to be called over?

Those are just some key missing facts that would go a long way to clarifying this situation.

Now for you, just out of curiosity, if you were the cop, how would you have handled it differently?

That video is a prime example of what black people have to go through here in america on a daily basis. Everything he said was rational and not anywhere close to being out of place. Ironic that every single cop I saw in that video was old and white.

And here's...the rest of the story:

"The police report says the man was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and obstructing the legal process. Here's the St. Paul PD's official version of events:
Squad 524, M. Johnson/ 526, B. Schmidt were called to the First National Bank Building (332 Minnesota) on a report of uncooperative male refusing to leave. Officers later made contact with this male... who refused to cooperate and would not give his name. He was later arrested for Trespassing, Disorderly Conduct, and Obstructing Legal Process (Citation #620900211109).

The man was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and obstructing the legal process, but those charges were later dropped."

Oh noes!!! A black man is hanging out by a bank, he must be up to something. Welcome to america!!

1. I suspect he only started recording when the cop came up to him - if you watch it you see that it starts sort of in the middle.
2. According to the story in the paper he was just sitting on the bench and the person inside the store/bank/whatever it was (I don't remember) didn't like that/felt uncomfortable.

If I'm the cop - I wouldn't handcuff the guy and tase him. I'd approach him calmly, let him know that the person inside had called, find out what he was doing there, and then go inside and tell the person inside there's nothing to worry about, that he's just waiting for his kids.

Absolute most paranoid-case scenario I'd loiter around for the 10 minutes or whatever it was until he said he was picking up his kids at school.

At no point does that require (a) asking him his name (although I can see "hey, what's your first name" so you have a way of conversing with him, and certainly not (b) getting into a physical confrontation.

Thing is - he wasn't even in the bank according to the story in the paper - he was sitting on the bench outside in the public space (it looks like the hallway inside an indoor mall type thing?) in the middle of the day, with plenty of other people around.

As he points out - it's public property, there's no trespassing.

Yes, exactly, public property on a bench. From google street viewing it, it's a big building that has a bunch of offices in it, including the school his kids are in. Probably sitting in the main lobby on said bench. But, being black and hanging out near a bank (where the bank could be several blocks away) is frowned upon in this country though.

He should have cooperated with the bank security guard's first and then at the very least, the cops. Instead, he was a douche. There is no reason not to say your name to the cop who is arriving to resolve a confrontation between a bank security guard and a loitering citizen.

If I am waiting for my kids and a asshole security guard says, "No loitering" then I fucking move. Why? Not because I need t fight for my rights right there, but because I have a greater responsibility to my children. This moron obviously doesn't get that.

And when the cops come to resolve the bank complaint, which is a pretty serious deal sometimes, he is a douche to them too. Totally forgetting that he's got kids to pick up, he's turned into some moronic constitutional vigiliante. Man, fuck that dude, with all the bad shit that happens in America, and forcing bank guards and cops to deal with all that shit....he's going to target them for a confrontation about his civil liberty to loiter where he wants and whether to say his name or not? And put his children at risk to witness that?

To be clear, it's my impression, that his punishment wasn't caused by being black, it was caused by being an idiot.